Get everyone Sam here. Who would have thought we're going to get in a guest today to talk about something that is important for absolutely every single one of us and it's only going to become more important as we head into summer. And that is doctor Adrianne Lee, who is going to blow our minds in a good way on the importance of taking care of ourselves in the
hot Australian sun. We had a little bit of a chat before I knew she was coming on today and just some of the stats that she was sharing with me forgetting just the intensity of the UV rays in this country that we live in, and how many of us do the right thing, but still how many of us don't do the right thing and make ourselves susceptible to something that is so avoidable. And we're going to go through the whole a disease of how you take care of your skin and in turn take care of your health.
So that's coming up next in the wood Life, and then.
We're going to talk about cozy cardio. Sam, what is cozy cardio? Well, you better stick around to find out. Okay, we are joined in the studio today and we've just been having the very quickest chat before before coming on air with the President of the Australasian College of Dermatologists, thrilled to be joined by doctor Adrian Lee. Welcome to the WOODLFE.
Oh thank you, Sam.
It's actually a pleasure to be here and I'm grateful to be invited to speak about this topic because it's really important to us.
It is really important.
And the thing that we were just saying before we went on air is I almost feel like the fact that we haven't spoken to you or anyone in this area of skin cancer is almost a metaphor of the fact that we all just forget about it. And when I was doing some research about you coming in today and I read that eighty percent of new cancers in this country are actually diagnosed are actually skin cancer, I really fell off my chair.
I really did. That was much much higher than I would have thought.
Yeah, and it is.
It's probably downplayed a lot, and we hear a lot about particular types of skin cancers or melanoma, but we forget there are much more common skin cancers out there. And if you add up every other cancer skin cancers in terms of numbers, at weighs all of those put together. So it's a really high proportion of cancers diagnosed, or all skin cancers. In my everyday practice, I would see you know, five ten a day.
And that's just one of me.
So then my head went to guilt because and I don't know if my listens like Sam, that's horrific.
Oh my god, I'm the same. I don't know.
Actually, I think probably a bit of both. But I think I've been checked once in my adult life and I'm not totally blase wear my hat, I wear sunscreen, you know. But we do have this bronzed Aussie like having a tan is a sign of good health, and like even if I go away on holiday and get a bit of a tech like the amount of compliments you get when you're oh, you look fantastic, mate, the holiday was just the thing you needed, and I reckon the only thing different is a tan.
Yeah.
It's a dangerous image, isn't it, you know, for us to strive for it is.
I mean, there's a real perception that if you look bronzed, you must be healthy, and I guess it associates without directivities and therefore being sporty, and so there's all that knock on effect of perception, but there's actually is a cliche, but there's no such thing as a healthy tan, and even some that causes and without sunburn can cause damage to the skin and the skin cells that come out
later in life as skin cancer. And I think if you put it this way, if we have some of the highest levels of skin cancer in the world, and we have some of the UV in the world, yet a majority of our skin cancers are preventable with appropriate sun protection and also very treatable with early detection, then a lot can change.
I don't want you to come in here and be go over the top, no, but I'd.
Love you to scare me a bit.
Yeah.
I know, I know that sounds a bit weird, but I think I need a bit of a scare because I get a bit lax with it. So how bad is our UV compared to other countries and how can you spook us with?
Yeah, well, if we put it this way, so there's three types of UV. There's UVC, UVB, and UVA, and so UVC is the stuff that is really bad and most of it is filtered out, but it's filtered by the ozone layer. So starting with that, there's a hole in the ozone layer, which sort of centers around Victoria and Tasmania. And then UVB, which is this uv that's
out that causes sunburns and skin cancers. That's a very high index in Australia and in Australia for northern Australia and the middle of Australia, it's out all year round. It does disappear in the winter in the southern States, which is where we can be a bit more relaxed
with our sudden protection. But when it's out, it has the potential to sunburn if you're out in the sun for say more than ten minutes, and it has the potential to cause damage and that can lead on to skin cancers if you're out for that short period of time.
And then the other UV's UVA, and it's the one we always forget about because UVB is blocked out by window glass, so we think we're safe if we're sitting in a car or sitting behind a window, but UVA can still penetrate throo and that can also cause us skin cancer. Also aging, I mean, we don't want to look older than we need to. And the thing about the whole bronze Dozzie is that actually they will look seventeen, they're actually fifty because of all that sun exposure.
And that's another aspect to it.
All right, spook me tell me, yeah, I'm I'm ready to.
Not like you very m no, and I'll take that proudly.
Yeah, listening, lady, Alright, this podcasting scared the life out of me. I think that's a good thing.
Well, let's put it this way.
So if we look at it skin cancers, two in three Australians by the age of seventy will have been diagnosed with a skin cancer.
Of every Australian we'll.
Get a skin cancer. So last year one point six billion dollars of the health budget was spent on skin cancer diagnosis, treatment and detection. And that's just a rough estimate on based on sort of Medicare figures because they don't collect datron most skin cancers. They only collected on melanoma, and so it's the most expensive cancer expenditure for our government.
And if you add up all those.
That can all the other cancers, and they're cost to treat skin cancer by far out weighs that. So that's how common it is, and that's how expensit it is. But the sad thing is most of them preventable, so we could actually reduce that reduce the numbers with good sun protection practices.
So let's go to what we should be doing both. Let's let's start at the very source. So you know what, from a prevent I know, we all know slip stop slap. I don't think it hurts to refresh, No, it doesn't. That's one is that that'll be with us, you know, for a hundred years.
Absolutely, But so yeah, tell us what we do.
Tell us that maybe the one thing that you frustrates you that you don't see estrangers this absolute no brainer, and it drives you mare that not enough of us are doing it.
Yeah.
And also I think there's some misconceptions and myths that I think you bust them. Yeah, yeah, Look, and slip stop slap is still the sort of gold standard. So we still slip on a shirt and I think the thing about that is just clothing that covers up your skin, because that's better than sunscreen. And the thing is that it should be tightly woven, so if you hold it up to the sun, you shouldn't be able to see through it. And then you know, it's tightly woven and
that way that you'll get your best sun protection. So slip on a shirt, slop on sunscreen. So with sunscreens, basically, I think the two factors are is that A we don't put enough on and B we need to be able to choose the right sunscreen.
The we don't we don't put it on frequently enough, or when we do put it on, we put it on too thinly.
Probably both.
Yeah, So strictly speaking, if you're putting enough sunscreen on, you should be putting the equivalent of a tea spin or every single body part. So a tea spoon on your arm, a tea spoon on your other arm, a tea spoon on your face and neck, one on your front of your body, one on the back, one on each leg. That's thirty five meals of sunscreen. So it's
actually quite a lot up. Yeah, it does. And so the sprays you can never get enough on the aerosol sunscreens because I know they use a friendly, but it's hard to get good coverage with that. The other thing about sunscreen I want to mention is that we always talk about that sun protection factor, and we do recommend sun protection SB fifty and above. But the other trick is that only measures UVB protection and u v A
also causes skin cancers. So it's important you get a broad spectrum one because the broad spectrum one will also.
Protection from you v You never know what broad spectrum that's.
What it means.
I see it on the sure sounds good.
But I mean I look for the highest number.
Yes, yes, okay.
So broad spectrum fifty plus and they said on every four.
Hours, really every trio.
More as soon as you come out of the water, if you're swimming and going to be outdoors, that's right.
What are these ones that are water resistant? You did buy that or is it there is evidence to suggest that they're better, that.
They will stick a bit better while you're in sort of, And that includes water resistance important is not only important for water sports, but also if you get sweaty, and that's where water resistance also plays a role in your sunscreen. But they do play a role, So you're better off using a water resistant one than a non water resistant one if you're going to be getting wet in any manner. But once you've actually gotten out of water, they're probably
no longer effective. So that's why you want to reapply as soon as you come out of the water anyway, independent of how long you've been in there too. And one more trick is you do need to put your sun's screen on, say about twenty minutes before you head.
Out, so it works.
I'm really bad. Yeah, I put it on. Then the kids go go, let's go swimming. It's probably all washed off in that eight seconds of putting it on. Yeah, but that okay, that's really good. So we've got our sunscreen, We've got our shirt.
Yep. So we've slip slopped, and we're going to slap on a hat.
And I think the key is, especially because of our ears, because of the back of our neck, has to be nice and broad brimmed.
I've got my nice Happy Year.
As well, two which I love, and that gives you good protection. Now, the other two things that have been added to the slip stop slap campaign are so slide on some sunglasses. Yeah, And the reason is that not only does sun cause skin cancers, but it actually can cause some gross on your eyes and cataracts and things like that. And so traditional sunglasses also will just be square and the UV can get in through here. So you can still get some skin damage but also some
damage to the eyes. So sliding on sunglasses that are preferably tight and wrap around would be better. And then seek shade, So slip, stop, slap, slide, seek And so it's seeking shade. So if you're out ideally you stand in the shade. Although that's not a subsidity. You still need your sunscreen, you still need your hat, but you're standing in the shade rather than in the direct sun.
All right, So slip, slop, slap, slide shade. And so then what about proactively going to the doctor?
How often should be going?
Is there a particular age that you say from this age onwards, this is when you should starts absolutely.
I think the first thing to say is that everyone should be checking themselves, and that's the place to start. So a really every change of season. It sounds like a lot, but you know, you change your toothbrush, you just do a quick check of your skin and so you get to know your skin. You get to know your spots really well. And a skin check on yourself is really quick and it doesn't take much because you
just use a mirror and use a handheld mirror. You check your front you put your back to the well mirror and then you look over your handheld and you can do a check of most of your body parts and you don't forget to check the things we don't think to check, so even the soles of your feet, sometimes between your toes, the ears, and then the bits you can't see. Hopefully you've got a partner who can
help you. Hairdressers are invaluable for your scalp on top of the head as well, and they will often comment on a spot that they see and say, get that checked so and then if you notice anything. So what you're looking for is as firstly a new spot.
That looks different, because a lot.
Of people think that most melanomas come from pre existing moles that change, but in fact three quarter of melanomas come from your normal skin. And we often talk about the ABC, D, E R all so A being asymmetry, B being a border that's irregular or funny shaped or smudgy. C being colors, so lots of colors, so dark brown, light brown, black, red, gray, blue, D being diameter meaning
it's growing, and E being evolution. So other changes, you know, getting lumpy, getting scabby, getting crusty, so they're the things you would be looking for in your own own moles, and as is it anything that looks different And we always say ugly duckling. So when you look at your skin and your eyes go straight to a spot and you just can't ignore it, that's an ugly duckley and then you know, I better get that checked. So if you see something like that, straight to your GP.
And what is once you get that diagnosis from your GP, what's then the process? What typically do people have to have done and what percentage? I mean, are there some stats on how many of them are serious, how many of them are fatal? Yeah?
Yeah, So basically, if they're worried about a spot, they'll send you on to a dermatologist, and if we get the message that there's a concerning spot, we'll try and fast track seeing them because some of us do have waiting lists, so we're aware that are certain things that we need to see quickly. Then when we see the patient and we feel if it is a concern, it will depend on what we see and what we think
it might be. Sometimes we'll just take a sample of it and do a biop see other times we'll cut the whole thing out and then based on the result, will recommend the appropriate treatment in terms of what we might find. So the commoner skin cancers that's sort of two in three people data, is more commonly what we call keratinocyte skin cancers as opposed to melanomas. They used
to be called non melanoma skin cancers. So there's something called a basal cell skin cancer that comes from the bottom layer of the skin cells, and they're sort of slow growing. They eat away the local skin, but they're very treatable and they really rarely spread through the body of metastas eyes, and they're the ones that I would see five or ten times a day. And some of those are just in the surface of the skin, like red shiny spots or pearly lumps, and those we just
cut out all. Some are amenable to a cream or freezing, and so they don't always lead to surgery. The next level of cancer is something called a squam of sell skin cancer, and they start from the top layers of skin. They grow a bit more quickly. They can be painful, and those ones, if we neglect them, have a small risk of starting to spread through the body, But again by and large are just amenable to cutting them out. So we just cut them out and that's the end
of it and they won't cause any trouble. It's the melanomas that are the serious ones. And while they're less common. So I think the stats are one in fourteen men and one in twenty one women. So that's important to remember because unfortunately, I think men are maybe a bit less diligent about sun protection and their health checks as well, but the rates of melanoma are higher. So one in fourteen men twenty one women will get a melanoma in their lifetime in Australia.
That still scares me a lot. To me, that still feels very high. I don't go only one in fourtee.
It's the third commonest cancer that is in Australia because we have to take out the correct skin cancers because we don't click data on those, but of the big cancers they click data on, it's the third commonest.
And what about what about from what age?
I mean, what age should I start doing my quarterly self checks and what age should I be insisting my GP doing it once over once a year.
I often think about school age is the time to do just your first check to work out where you're at it, we'll starting to know yours and then with your annual checks. Often we're a bit older when we start to get annual checks from our GP, so that might be in your.
I've only started doing it.
I think I was forty, that's it, So I don't know it's.
My fortieth birthday, is alarmer?
What else?
But Yeah, the skin's one thing. So would you advise from forty or earlier?
Or it depends a bit on respectors.
Sure, So for someone who's never had a skin cancer, who has not got many risk factors, so they are actually not like yourself. So you're probably intermediate in terms of your skin type, but you might have had some UV exposure over the years and then probably about twenty five thirty as well. Yeah, if you've got a really strong family history of skin cancer, are you're covered in moles, that's probably an earlier age that you should be getting those skin checks.
Look, I'm not saying I guess. My thought is you can't really do this to it again. Your I agree for what you have to lose to the correct the inconvenience, let's get the balance right here.
Absolutely, I agree, and I think that it's also part of just that general looking after your general health. It gets even good ractices and it makes you think about what you're doing every day and.
Are there any other symptoms that you would experience beyond a look like would you if you had a melanoma? Would you be fear in any way? Or it's purely a visual identity and identification.
The spot itself might get itchy, it might scabble crust, or it might be a bit sore or tender, so it might draw your attention not just by how it looks, but how it feels.
Okay, that's good to know. I've learned.
Literally, I've just been a sponge to soaking all of this up.
It's been absolutely fantasy.
Last question I've got, because we've sort of spoken about how far we've come.
Are there still?
Are there any trends or anything still here in twenty twenty three that really worries you that if you've got this as a mouthpiece to the younger people or whatever, Australians everywhere, is there anything you.
Just go You've got to listen to this.
You're mad to not hear this information.
I think there's a few things, but in particular I think it's just still the whole tanning trend, wanting to get tanned, wanting to get sort of that healthy glow, and that health the glow naturally, is there real concern too?
Now?
Look, I've just thought of another trend that's really right bad and it's on TikTok, and it's called the TikTok tanning trend.
And there's a thought, there's a concept that if you pour a cat of beer all over your skin, you will get a better tan. I mean, I only have to say it to.
Know that it's not a good idea, but there's people out there who are doing it, probably in their millions.
Yes, Yes, because TikTok is such a reliable source of information.
Isn't that.
I mean, how many conversations I have on this podcast where TikTok or social media in general just.
Is detrimental to our health.
Adrian, that was just such an informative, lovely chat I've learned. I kind of haven't written it down, obviously, but I must have been twenty fascinating things that if I knew them, i'd forgotten them, or I definitely wasn't practicing as much
as I should, or I didn't know them altogether. And I'm sure as we head into these hotter months in Australia, there'll be thousand of people listening to this just going thank you so much for such an important, powerful reminder how we can all take better care of ourselves in the hot Australians. Son, thanks so much for joining us in the woodlife.
Oh appreciate it, Sam, And thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak as well at this opportune time.
The pleasures on mine. Thanks you all right.
So there's a new trend on social media called cozy cardio?
What is it? Is it good for us?
I gotta admit this hasn't come from me. This has come from my eighteen year old daughter. So there's this TikTok creator, very well known, very successful. Her name says it all, Hope zucker Brow. She gets up early in the morning, she puts on a favorite movie. She's in her comfy pajamas, she's got galaxy lamp, she's got her cat's there. She makes herself a scrumptious ice coffee drink with all her favorite You know, she's really setting herself up to enjoy exercise as much as is humanly possible.
And then she walks on her little treadmill while drinking her ice coffee, which that bit I don't like because she's kind of then going I burn one hundred and thirty calories with my thirty minute power walk, and she probably consumed one hundred and thirty calories with her ice coffee.
So that is a little bit counterproductive.
And if I'm being you know, from my own personal perspective, and there's a lot of research to suggest too, that getting out and getting some vitamin D and some fresh air is absolutely my preference too, rather than in a dark, cozy room with the candles on it and your cats everywhere.
But this is the thing.
There'd be a lot of fitness people who would just slam hope and go yeah, hope.
What she's setting the bed ex there.
She's doing more good than harm. The reality is our job as fitness professionals is to help people move their body more by making the medicine taste better. So she's found this environment, all of these cues that she does,
she's built a community doing the same thing. She's got this wonderful TikTok community, sending a cozy club, cups and merch and like it's a really interesting, you know way, but it just shows find something that you like doing, find an environment that you like doing it in, avoid things that are you know, it's kind of find the things that give you green lights and avoid the things that give you red lights. Gyms intimidate the crap out
of a lot of people. So going to a gym with people gawking at you and standing there and mirrors everywhere, and people that you know all glammed up and in their skin tight lycra that's pretty horrendous for a lot of people. So don't feel bad if you're like, Okay, my association with exercises that I'm never going to exercise again. You just have to go, Okay, that type of exercise
isn't appealing to me. What else can I do? Going for a walk, getting out and about talking to no one, having your headphones in, listening to your favorite podcast, listening to your favorite music, finding a friend that you like, exercising with, doing it at home in your comfy aus pj's, doing yoga with your dog on the floor.
It doesn't matter.
But we need to move so that the two messages I think are you've got to find what makes the medicine taste better for you, and something is always better than nothing.
So if the.
Alternative is just sitting on the couch and watching the movie or walking on your little Amazon treadmill and watching the movie, well then of course the latter is better. So we can't be too hard on ourselves. We can't strive for perfection. We don't all have to be crazy athletes or crossfitters. And Cozy Cardio is one example of how one inspirational person in a lot of ways has found something that works for her and is working.
For millions of her followers.
So I embrace it, I endorse it. Where I get worried is they start giving professional advice. It's way out of their pay grade, you know, like they're giving physio advice and medical advice and just incorrect information. So I do think you've got to be aware who am I listening to, What are their qualifications? Do they actually know what they're talking about or are they just funny and
inspirational and entertaining. And if it's the latter, great, If you're going to them for medical advice, maybe check yourself. But outside of that, I think doing way more good than harm. The more we can move our bodies and do that with people that we enjoy spending time with and build a community and feel like we're part of something.
The longer we're going to stick to it, the more we're going to enjoy each individual workout, each milestone that we achieve, and the better that we're going to be for it. And what a lovely way to finish the show, because I'm really proud of the fact that that's my attitude when it probably wasn't my adity as a twenty five or even thirty year old, and I know it's definitely not the attitude to most fitness professionals out there.
Get on your TikTok channels.
If you've got a TikTok channel, check out Cozy Cardio with Hope Zacher Brown. You will then have a much better idea of what I'm talking about, and I'm sure you'll go you won't think Sam has lost his mind. You'll see the good bits that I'm talking about. And if there's any other trendsetters out there, let me know about them. I'd love to what's viral? What's going viral? What's trending on your social media channels? From a fitzbo perspective that I do not know about, that I should
know about. That's your homework. Send it in until next week. I'll see you then