I think when we get asked the question do we lack focus, that question means something completely different to what it potentially meant ten to twenty years ago. Ten twenty years ago, it meant, so, do you lack focus in your life or your job or whatever it might be your career path? I think now that question can legitimately be asked, do you lack focus? As in can you
pay attention or concentrate to anything? And I think the answer, sadly for most of us, and I'm putting my hand up here too, is no, or at least not for very long periods of time. And this is not just true for us. It's true for our friends, it's true for our partners, it's true for our kids, which is
really scary. So the good news is that our guest today is someone who has done extensive research on focus, attention spans and the way that we can reconnect both to what we need to be paying attention to and to each other.
I'm so excited about this guest.
And then we're going to reflect on some of the positive things that we've done recently and the things that we're proud of and are worth celebrating.
This is the wood Life.
I'm Sam Wood and we're going to kick things off of our interview on focus and attention spans.
And if there is.
One interview that I want you to listen to, this is the one I wore to say. Definite language warning on this one, so perhaps listen to it by yourself before you listen to it with your kids. Our next guest is the guest that I have been most looking forward to speaking to since The wood Life started. He is a New York Times best selling author and he has written a recent book called Stolen Focus, which is all about our inability to focus or concentrate, and it's
all in the name that it's stolen from us. It is none other than the absolutely inspiring and incredible Johann Harry.
Welcome to the Woodlife. Well, thank you so much. Sam.
So yeah, and your latest book, Stolen Focus, is all about our inability to focus or concentrate or hav an attention span. Where exactly did this come from?
So the reason I cared about this is I could feel my own attention going to shit. Ye know, it felt for me like with each year that passed, things that require deep focus that are so important to me, like reading books, having proper long conversations, watching films. We're getting more and more like running up a down escalator, you know what I mean. I could still do them, but they were getting harder and harder, and I could
see this happening to everyone around me. The average office worker now focuses on any one task for three minutes. For every one child who was identified with a serious attention problem when I was seven years old, there's now one hundred children have been identified with that problem. So I wanted to understand what's going on here and most importantly,
what do we do about it? So I ended up going on this really big journey all over the world, from Melbourne to Moscow to Miami to Montreal, not just the cities that begin with the letter M, and I interviewed over two hundred of the leading experts in the world on attention and focus. And I learned that there's twelve factors that can make your attention better or can make your attention worse. They include some aspects of our tech,
but actually go way beyond it as well. But the key thing I learned is that your attention didn't collapse. Your attention has been stolen from you by some really big forces, but once you understand them, you can start to get your attention back.
I'm listening to you, going, well, there's Sam the social media person, and Sam the boss, who agrees and understands everything that you're saying and yet still does it to serve his own needs. And then there's Sam the dead who's just paralyzed and paranoid about the world that these children are coming into or are already in. And then there's Sam the hypocrite, who is quick to say to his sixteen year old daughter, you can't do this, and these are the reasons why, and yet he does it himself.
I think that those feelings you're having are less in conflict than you might think. So I give tell you this historical story. When I was a kid, I think you're younger than me. When I was a kid, the standard form of petrol in Australia and Britain was leaded petrol, and a little bit before my time, people used to
paint their houses with leaded paint. And it was discovered by scientists that exposure to lead really fucks your brain, and particularly fucks children's ability to focus and pay attention. And obviously, if it's in petrol is then in the air, everyone was exposed to huge amounts of lead. Right, So a group of ordinary Australian mums banded together and said, well, why are we tolerating this? Why are we allowing the lead industry to trash our kids' brains? And it's really
important to notice what they didn't say. So they didn't say, Okay, here's the solution, ban or paint. And they didn't say here's the solution.
Ban or petrol.
They said, let's deal with the specific aspect that is so harming our kids, right, And they fought, and they fought. These mums fought for their kids, and some dads as well, and some people who didn't have kids, and they succeeded. You know, you will have noticed there's no more leaded paint, there's no more leaded petrol. As a result, the Center for Disease Control, since the average child is now three to five iq points higher than they would have been. Have we not band led?
Right now?
To me, that's a really interesting moment. People identify something in the environment that is harming people's attention, they single out that thing. They don't mix it up with other stuff. They don't overreact and they deal with it, and they get it out of the environment, and it leads to a really positive change.
So I think some.
People when they hear some of the criticisms I have, think, oh, he's anti tech, right, Oh he's saying we've got to get rid of our tech. That is not. I'm no more anti tech than those mothers were anti paint or anti petrol.
Right.
So when you're saying, well, I make a living from social media, social media is a good thing. I want social media. I just want social media that doesn't contain the specific aspects the harm our attention. I can go to more detail on that. The way big tech want us to think about this, and I'll stress again, tech is only one of the twelve factors that arming our attention.
It's only specific aspects of our tech. But the way big tech want us to think about this debate is are you pro tech or are you anti tech?
Right?
And you hear that and you're like, fuck, I'm not going to give up my phone and my laptop. I'm not going to join the armish. I guess I'm pro tech, right. That's not the debate. We're all pro tech apart from the armish who bring us people no disrespect. The film Witness lied to us. But that's not the debate. The debate is what tech do we want? Designed for? What purpose?
Is working in whose interests? At the moment we have tech that is designed to hack and invade our attention, we can have tech that's designed to heal our attention, right, that's what we want. That's absolutely a world we can live in.
So then to that point, yeahan, how do we we do get overwhelmed by the power of these big tech companies And it's almost you know, how does little old me as an individual actually make a difference in that fight against these tech companies When what they do and the way they do it is so commercially driven, How do we actually impact that?
So I would say, for all of the twelve factors that are harming our attention that I write about, install and focus, we've got to respond in two different ways. I think of them as defense and offense.
Right, So there are loads of.
Things we can all do to defend ourselves and our children at an individual level from these factors that are harming our attention. So I'll give you an example of one. I go through dozens in the book. I've got something called a k safe, so plastic safe. You take off the lid you put in your phone, you put on the lid, you turn the dial at the top, and it will lock your phone away for anything between five minutes and a whole day. Yeah, I use that four
hours a day to do my writing. I won't to sit down and watch a film with my partner unless we both imprison our phones in the phone jail. I have my friends around for dinner unless everyone puts their phone in the phone bit. And people freak out at first, and I'm like, listen, you're not Joe Biden. You don't have to give orders for what's happening in your grain.
The world can cope without you for an hour and a half, right, And if they've got kids, I always give them the landline number, because I'm like, look, there's an emergency with your kids, They'll ring the fucking landline. It's okay, right, We're not that important. And at first people are really panicked. But the pleasure of getting your attention back is so much greater than the pleasure of whatever shitty distraction you know you're afraid of missing. And
I would just say to anyone listening. Think about anything you've ever achieved in your life that you're proud of, whether it's starting a business, being a good parent, learning to play the guitar, whatever it is. That thing that you're proud of required a huge amount of sustained focus and attention. And when your ability to focus and pay attention break down, your ability to achieve your goals breaks down, your ability to solve your problems breaks down, you've become
less competent. But when you get your focus back, you get a feeling of being competent again. So there's all these defensive measures. But I want to be really honest with people, and we've gone right to the heart of this at the start of the conversation, Sam, I am passionately in favor of these individual changes.
They have helped me.
They will help you, but they will only get you so far, because at the moment, it's like we're it's like someone is pouring itching powder over us all day and then they're leaning forward and going, you know what, mate, you might want to learn how to meditate. Then you wouldn't scratch so much, and you want to go, well, fuck off, I'll learn how to meditate.
That's really valuable.
But you need to stop pouring itching powder on me, right, So we have to go on offense against the forces that are doing this to us. And that can sound kind of fancy and abstract, but I went to lots of places that I've already done it. I spent a lot of time in Silicon Valley interviewing people who designed key aspects of the world that we all live in and that our kids are so obsessed with. You know,
there were lots of moments that really haunted me. But one was an amazing man named Dr James Williams, who used to be at the heart of Google, was horrified by what they were doing, quit and became, I would argue, the leading philosopher of attention in the world. And one day he was speaking at a tech conference and the audience are people who literally designed the stuff that your
kids use. And he said to them, if there's anyone here who wants to live in the world that we're creating, please put up your hand.
And nobody put up their hand.
Right well, and I asked a lot of these people who designed the world we live in, Okay, what's the equivalent to the lead in the lead paint, and they kept telling me, and for a really long time, I just didn't understand what they were saying, right, And it really took me a long time to absorb it.
So give you an example.
This guy called Azer Raskin, who designed a key part of how the Internet works. His dad, Jeff Raskin, invented the Apple Macintosh for Steve Jobs. And ASA said to me, you want to know what the lead is, it's the current business model, right, So anyone listening, if you open Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, now they start to make money out of you immediately in two ways. The first way is really obvious. You see advertising, Okay, everyone knows how that works. Second way
is much more important. Everything you do on these apps is scanned and sorted by their artificial intelligence algorithms to.
Learn who you are.
So let's say that you click or write that you like I don't know Pauline Hanson, Bete Midler, and you tell your mum you just bought some nappies. Okay, So you like Pauling Hanson, it's figured out you're probably right wing. If you like bet Midler, and a man's figured out you're probably gay. And if you've got nappy, you' bought nappies, Okay, it figures out you've got a baby.
Right.
It's learning tens of thousands of things like this about you. Now, partly that's to sell that information to advertisers, because you are not their customer. You are the product they sell to their real customer. So people making nappies want to advertise to people who've got babies. They don't want to waste their money talking to me, I don't have a baby, right. But more importantly, they're gathering all this information to figure out the weaknesses in your attention so they can keep
you scrolling. Because the longer you scroll and the longer your kids scroll, the more money they make. And every time you close the app, their revenue stream disappears. So all of their AI, all of their algorithms, all of this genius and Silicon Valley is geared towards doing one thing, figuring out how do we make you and your kids pick up your phones as often as possible and scroll as long as possible.
That's it.
All they care about is how do we get you to scroll the most? This is what they say, right, They admit it when you talk to them they admit it publicly, right, but social media doesn't have to work that way. So ASA said to me that business model, the kind of fancy term for it is surveillance capitalism, the idea that you know, they surveil you to figure out the weaknesses and sell you. Right, he said, just ban it, just like we said we don't let you
put lead in lead paint. Just ban that business model. So one different business model is subscription. Everyone knows how Netflix works. You pay a certain amount, you get access. Or think about the sewers. Right before we had sewers, we had shit in the streets, people got really ill. And actually, starting in Melbourne, it was one of the first sewers in the world. They built sewers. And now we all own the sewers together, and we all maintain
the sewers together. Right, you own the sewers in Melbourne.
Right.
It may be that we all want to own the sewage pipes together to stop us getting cholera. We might want to own the information pipes together to stop us getting the equivalent of cholera for our attention. And I would argue for our politics. But whatever alternative they moved to, all the incentives change Suddenly the incentives are not how do we fuck Sam's attention and keep him scrolling? Suddenly it's like, oh, Sam's our customer. Now what does Sam want?
Oh?
It turns out Sam feels good when he actually meets up with people offline and looks into their eyes. Okay, let's design our app not to keep people scrolling, but to get them to actually meet up. Oh, turns out Sam wants to be able to pay attention. Let's design our app to heal attention, not to hack attention. Technology to do that exists right now. My friends in Silicon Valley lecturists don Aarrez could.
Do that in a week.
Right.
The reason it doesn't happen is because the incentives aren't there. But we can make the incentives be there. Right, We can fight for this, just like you know, the lead industry was never going to go. You know what, guys, I think we've just made enough money. Let's stop doing this, but let's start it works, right. They had to be made to do it. These social media companies had to be made to do it. The acts existed for one point four million years before anyone said, should we put
a handle on this thing? The entire Internet has existed for less than ten thousand days.
Right, we can sort this shit out. Human beings have dealt with much.
Bigger things than this, Right, But we've got to decide that attention is something we value, and then we've got to actually fight to do it right. And actually the tech is only one of a whole series of changes we have to make. The food we eat at the moment is profoundly harming our ability to focus and pay attention. The way we work is harming our ability to focus and pay attention. That the complete transformation in childhood that's happened in the last two generations is really harming our
children's attention. These are big things, but we can fix big things right. We can put them right, but we had to resolve to do it, and we have to fight like hell for them.
That's given me a lot, and it gives me a lot to think about it, but it gives me a vote of confidence. I just know even our listeners might be thinking, God, this is bigger than I even thought it was, and it's so overwhelming, and it's so scary, and it's so intimidating, particularly for parents.
So you know, I would say.
Sam, right and I had that feeling sometimes, right, And there were times in the research of the book, you think, oh fucking hell, are we trapped in the fucking matrix here? Yeah, But when I think about that, I think about my friend Andrew Sullivan was diagnosed as HIV positive at the height of the AIDS crisis in nineteen ninety four. His best friend Patrick had just died of AIDS and he thought, well, that's it. I've got a couple of years to live.
It's over. No one knew about the new treatments that were about to come online, and he thought, Okay, before I die, he quits job, and he thought, before I die, I'm going to do one last thing. And he decided he was going to write a book about a crazy utopian idea that no one had ever written a book about before. And he was like, look, I'll never live to see this happen. No one alive today will ever live to see it happen. But maybe someone somewhere down
the line will pick up this idea. The idea that he was the first person to ever write a book about was gay marriage. Right, And when I get depressed and think, oh God, we're up against something big here, I tried to imagine going back in time to when Andrew was writing his book Virtually Normal in nineteen ninety four and.
Saying to him, Okay, Andrew, you're not going.
To believe me, but twenty six years from now you'll be alive. That would have completely blown his mind. B you'll be married to a man because that'll be legal.
And see, I'll be with you when the Supreme Court of the United States quotes from this book you're writing, when it makes it mandatory for every state in the United States to introduce gay marriage, and the next day you're going to be invited to have dinner with the president in a white house lit up in the colors of the rainbow flag to celebrate what you and millions of other people have achieved. Oh and by the way, that president he's going to be black, insane.
So you had two thousand.
Years of gay people being burned, imprisoned, treated like shit, you like in every human society basically, and in the space of a few generations, the whole fucking edifice falls right and we get to I'm not saying there's not still problems with homophobia. There is, of course, but you know, staggering staggering progress. Right, amazing changes can happen. The forces that are sucking up our attention are very real, these twelve factors, they are very real. They are really debilitating.
Some of them have very powerful forces behind them. But we can prevail over those forces like we prevailed over a lot of shitty forces in the past. Right at this moment, I've got a god son. I call him Adam in the book, it's not his real name. When he was nine, he developed this brief but incredibly intense obsession with Elvis Presley. When I used to tuck him in, he would get me to tell tell him the story of Elvis's life. One night, I mentioned Graceland, where Elvis lived,
and his eyes like wined. He said, God, yeah, will you take me to Graceland one day? And I said, sure, the way you do with nine year olds. No, next week it will be fucking Legoland or Lapland or whatever.
And he looked at me.
So intensely, and he said, do you swear you will take me to Graceland? And I said, I absolutely swear. And I did not think of that moment again for ten years, until so many things had gone wrong. So he dropped out of school when he was fifteen, and by the time he was nineteen. This will sound like
an exaggeration, it isn't. He spent literally almost all his waking hours looking at his iPad or his iPhone or his laptop, and his life was just this blur of WhatsApp, YouTube, porn, and it was like he was kind of whirring at the speed of snapchat when nothing still all serious could touch him. And one day we were sitting on my sofa there all day I was trying to get a conversation go with him, and just I couet.
I couldn't do it.
And to be honest with you, Sam, I wasn't that much better, right, I was staring at my own devices. And I suddenly remembered this moment all these years before, and I said to him, Hey, let's go to Graceland. And he was like, well, the fuck are you talking about any remember this thing, right? And I reminded him, and I said, now let's break this numbing routine. Let's get out of here. But if we go, you've got to leave your phone in the hotel during the day, right,
There's no point going. I'm just going to be on your phone the whole time, and he really he thought about it, and he said, yeah, I'd like to do that.
Let's do it.
And a couple of weeks later we got to Graceland. And when you arrive at the gates of Graceland, there's no one to show you around. What happens is they hand you an iPad and you put in earbuds and the iPad shows you around. It says go left, go right, whatever. So what happens is everyone just walks around Graceland staring at their iPad and it's doing my head in as we're walking around, and I never forget this. It was this Canadian couple and the man turned to his wife
and said, honey, this is amazing. Look if you swipe left, you can see the jungle room to the left, and if you swipe right, you can see the jungle room to the right. And after that, lad, I thought he was kidding, and I turned and looked at them, and they were just swiping back and forth. And I leaned over and I said, but hey, sir, there's an old fashioned form of swiping you could do. It's called turning your head, because literally we're there, right, And I turned
to my god Son to laugh about it. And he was standing in the corner staring at Snapchat, because from the minute we landed he absolutely could not stop. And I went up to him and I did that thing it's never a good idea with the teenager. I tried to grab the phone out of his hands yep, And I said to him, I know you're afraid of missing out, but this is guaranteeing that you'll miss out right. You're not showing up at your own life. You're not present
at the events of your own existence. And he stormed off, and I wandered around Memphis on my own that day, and that night I went to the Heartbreak Hotel where we were staying, and he was sitting by the swimming pool looking at his phone, and I went up to him and I apologized, and he said, I know something's wrong, but I don't.
Know what it is.
Well, I realized, God, we came away to get away from this constant distraction, but there wasn't any escape because it was everywhere right. And that was when I thought, God, I need to understand what's happening here.
I mean, I don't think there'd be a listener of ours that has a teenager or anyone probably over the age of eight. Really that can't you know, scarily, that can't relate to what you're saying. And I have a sixteen nearly seventeen year old daughter, and I know she won't admit there's a problem, because that'll mean that has to be the first step in actually doing something about it. As far easy to say, I'm in complete control, I don't know what I'm doing and this is just what
all the kids do. And this is what I meant about my hypocrite comment. As much as I get frustrated by others, I then have a good hard look in the mirror, and I'm just as guilty of doing it myself.
Will you think about what you think about what you're saying about your daughter.
That's so interesting because that thing that we want to believe, and I feel it too, we want to believe, Well, you can do this and there's no cost.
Right.
I went to interview one of the leading new A scientist in the world, a man named Professor Earl Miller, interviewed with it at MITA and he said to me, look, there's one thing you've got to understand about the human brain more than anything else. You can only consciously think about one or two things at a time.
That's it.
This is just a fundamental limitation of the human brain. The human brain hasn't changed in forty thousand years significantly. It's not going to change any time soon. Yeah, you can't do more than one thing at a time. What you do is you juggle very quickly between tasks. You go, Wait, what did Sam just ask me? What's this message on WhatsApp? What did it say on the TV there about the election?
Wait? What did Sam just ask me? Again?
Wait, what's the message on Facebook? You're constantly juggling. And it turns out that comes with a really big cost. The kind of fancy term for it is the switch cost effect. When you try and do more than one thing at a time, you do all the things you're trying to do much less competently, you make more mistakes, you remember less of what you do, you're much less creative. And that sounds like a small effect. Sciences, that shows it's really big. Can I give an example.
Of something that every parent can do?
Yeah, please, I'd love you too.
That I think is separate to tech.
It's not totally unrelated, but one of the heroes in my book is a woman called Leonor's Gnazi. So Lenau grew up in a suburb of Chicago in the nineteen sixties, and from when she was five years old, she left her home on her own, walked out the front door, and walked to school that was fifteen minutes away on
her own. But she would bump into all the other kids, the five, six seven year olds who walking to school, because in the ninety sixties, every child walked to school on their own, right ask anyone who was alive, then that was what everyone did. And then when school ended at three o'clock, Lenare would leave and she'd just wander around the neighborhood with her friends for a couple of hours. They'd invent games, they'd play, and they went home when
they were hungry. Right again, that was the norm. By the time Lenor was a mother in the nineties, that had been completely that had ended. Right You were meant to walk your kid to the gate and be waiting when they came out. In fact, by two thousand and three, only ten percent of American children ever went outside without an adult supervising them. And it turns out that childhood we've lost contained loads of things that were really important for attention and focus. To give a real no shit
sherlock one exercise, right, kids need to run around. When you run around, as Professor Joel Nigg has shown, your brain connections grow, you can pay attention much better. Single best thing you can do for kids you can't pay attention is let them.
Go and run around.
Right, But there's something even more important in the childhood we've lost that was so important for attention. When children play freely without adults standing over them, supervising them, enforcing the rules, they learn attention. They learn what they find interesting, which is really important for attention. They learn how to persuade other kids to pay attention to what they find interesting. They learn how to take turns, paying attention to things
other kids wants do. They learn how to take risks. You climb the tree, you go to high, you shit yourself, you come back down. If you don't learn how to take risks, you become cripplingly anxious.
That ruins your attention.
And we took all that away from our kids.
Right.
Nor could see all this right, and she could see this was really harmful to kids' attention. And at first she thought well, the solutions obvious, just let my kid go out to play and urge other parents to do the same. But she quickly discovered if you were the only parent who did it, that your kid got scared, you look like a nutcase and often people would call the police. Right, So Leonard decided you had to have a Biggert strategy. She runs a group called let Grow.
It's let grow dot org. I really urge everyone who's parent or grandparent listening to go to let grow dot org. And what they do is they go to whole schools and whole communities and persuade everyone to give their kids increasing levels of independence that build up to playing outside with our adults. At the moment, we are not giving our children a childhood that our ancestors would recognize as
a human childhood. Just like we don't eat food that our ancestors would recognize as food, we don't sleep in a way our ancestors would recognize. So there's so much we can do. I'm so optimistic. I went to so many places from France to New Zealand to Long Island that would do it. Amazing things that we're restoring people's attention and focus. We can absolutely do this. But we've got to realize, you know, we are not medieval peasants begging at the court of King Zuckerberg for a few
little crumbs of attention from his table. We are the free citizens of democracies. We own our own minds and we can take them back if we want to.
Oh yeah, you beautiful man.
You speak so much common sense and you articulate it so beautifully. I'm going to get your beautiful message out there and make sure that I'm doing everything i can for as many people as possible to start to challenge the way that they're thinking, challenge the way that they're doing, and get back to these basic ways that we need to live.
Oh, cher Sam, I really enjoyed this, and I'm meant to say, oh, my publishers takes me that anyone wants to know to get the audiobook, the ebook or physical book can go to stolenfocusbook dot com.
Thank you so so much.
So.
I must admit, before speaking to Johannah was a little bit worried that it might bring me down, not because Johann brings people down, quite the opposite, but just the overwhelm and the seriousness of how did we get ourselves into this message of world and can we get ourselves out of it? But it actually has done the opposite. The optimism and the positivity that Johann brings and the fact that it's about these are the real things that we can do in the offense and the defense. So
I've loved that he's done that. So we're going to continue on with some of the optimism and positivity by celebrating some of the beautiful accomplishments that our would lifeless as have done. That's next on the show.
Now.
Recently I asked you to share your proud fitness achievements, whatever that might be, no matter how big or how small, and I think it was interesting how Johann mentioned that when you need to achieve something incredible, you really do need to give it your focus and attention and you're not going to get very far. And I'm sure all of you that have sent in those achievements would be
agreeing with that statement. Right now. I thought it might be nice that we share those because it's not just for my benefit, it's for the benefit of inspiring each other and inspiring all of you. So I've collated a group of achievements that have been sent into us here at the Woodlife, and here.
They are.
Ten thousand steps every day every day. I started this in September and ever since then, I've met sure that I do it. My last month went for a to US because I was traveling, but other than that, I meet sure I do the ten thousand steps every single day.
I think at the moment, I'm pretty proud because I've I tried with consistency in terms of like staying away from food that just makes my body react, and so I've been pretty good at the moment staying away from like wheat. Yeah, I get bloated and I find it hard to breathe properly when I eat it. So I've actually been really consistent for the past couple of months actually not eating it.
When I graded and I got my yellow single in kickboxing.
And when I got my first stripe in jiu jitsu. I'm happy that I'm doing yoga twice a week, and that's good. That helps me quite a lot. Actually, flexibility is much better. But what I've noticed is that my blood pressure is steady, and which was an issue and cholesterol levels. I got really fit about six years ago and I did the OX spam one hundred the hiking, so we had to hike for one hundred k's in
a certain time frame. And I've also done a couple of ceteries up in the Grampians, which is eighty k over two days hike. So a group of four of us for besties, we would go out once a month training, usually up at the Dandy Knongs or out at Ludider Gorge or Mount Methodon. Yeah, we still do it. We still go hiking at least once a month. We usually do about twenty k's.
Now, there's no right, there's no wrong, there's no better, there's no worse. It's an individual achievement and it doesn't matter how big or small you might think it is. It's important to acknowledge it, and it's actually really nice and powerful to share it. I just think we're so hard on ourselves, where our own harshest critics in this world. You know, we tend to focus on the things that we're not doing a lot of the time, and there's often things that we are doing that perhaps we're not
giving ourselves enough credit for. So I just thought, at the end of such a beautiful episode of the wood life would be really nice to share those achievements with each other. And as always, if you have anything recently that you're proud of, please let me know send them in through the voice message. You can do that through the link in the show notes. I can't thank you enough for listening to the WOODLFE. I appreciate all of your support that we've had so far, and I'll be
back on Monday for our next motivational moment. And of course you can listen for free on the iHeartRadio app. Have a wonderful week, I'll see you soon.