Get everybody Sam here with another episode of the wood Off, a little bit of a different episode and something that I'm really interested in hearing about. I always love these stories where someone has changed tact or done the hard
yards and then reap the rewards in the end. And it's quite close to my heart as I have a little six year old just turned six, Willow a couple of weeks ago, who is very much into her reading at the moment, and we're trying to, I guess, navigate what's the next book in the progression from both the words that she can read and she can articulate and stuff that she's interested in. And we have a best selling author today who I think books will be slightly too old for Willow for the now, but not for
much longer. It's a wonderful best selling children's author by the name of Rhese Carter. That's coming up next, and that's going to kick off a whole conversation about the importance of hobbies today on the Woodline. So we have someone on the podcast today that is a nutritionist and guess what we are not going to talk about food?
Well, we might I might head down that path.
I don't know but we are there is no intent to talk about nutrition in any way, shape or form, because this fantastic human being is.
Now not a nutritionist.
He's a full time fiction writer, and he's book, A Girl Called Corpse is now a best selling kid's book, and he has a new book coming out called Lighthouse of Elston Fright, and that's out now too. We're going to get into how he made that transition. Reese Carter, Welcome to the WOODLFE.
Hey, Sam, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
So Madam, I mean this in all sincerity.
You're a very different guest to one that we would typically have on this show, and I love it because
I think it's interesting that our paths have crossed. But I think they've crossed for good reason, because I think when we strive for wellness or happiness, and we always associate happiness with wellness or contentment or whatever it might be, we always think about, you know, what we eat, and are we doing exercise, and how much sleep are we getting, and what are the relationships that we're keeping, all the sort of the big core pillars, and so often what
we do for more hours than any of those other things put together maybe outside of sleep we don't really reflect on. And I love the fact that you have taken a career change to something that you are clearly not only very very talented in, but passionate about. And from the beaming smile on your face, mate, I can see that you're pretty happy with the choice that you've made and it looks like it's full steam ahead from here. So congratulations on the success.
And tell us about how how this little.
U turn or left turn or right turn, whatever you call it, happened, and how long it's been going for.
Yeah, looks it's funny because I don't necessarily think of it as a U turn, because I've been doing this since I was a kid myself. I was one of those kids who absolutely loved reading, and then as a teenager, so when I was at high school, I actually under the recommend day after a brilliant teacher of mine, my English teacher, recommended that I maybe try writing my own stories.
You know, I fell in love with writing as well, and I've never stopped, so, you know, initially it was just a bit of fun, a bit of play, creating characters, creating worlds, starting a story, never quite finishing it, and then at twenty five, I made the decision, now I really want to give this a crack. I really want to try and write a novel the kids that is published, and sort of yeah, committed to it more fully, I suppose.
But as any author will tell you, any right will tell you, especially fiction, getting your first novel published can at times feel like a real long shot. And so I did have another career. As you mentioned, I was a nutritionist, So I thought it was nutritionist by day, and then at night I was going home and I was leading this secret double life of writing fantasy books for the kids.
That's actually exactly how I pitched it, you know, just this great creative outlet that was a hobby because and the only reason I call it a hobby is is not bringing any money. You know, that's maybe not the correct definition to what a hobby you should or shouldn't be. But clearly the quality of what you were writing was probably wonderful. It just wasn't being read by that many people. Yet it was, and it's taken off I'll say that.
But the quality of what I was writing initially was probably pretty rubbish, to be honest.
So actually I.
Wrote, as I said, I sort of really sort of dedicated some time to this at around twenty five, and over the course of the next few years a number of manuscripts, none of which got published. But that's all part of the process as well. You know, I wrote three duds so that I could learn how to write a good one. And it was that fourth one, a girl called Corpse, that finally got that attention and found a publisher. But you know, again, that's just part of
the gig, isn't it. Like I think we often talk about creativity or talent as if it's something that people have innately, but I don't necessarily know if I agree with that. I think that most creatives and their work is actually just the product of hard work and putting in those ten thousand.
Hours or whatever it may be.
So I suppose there was some rubbish writing, but I had to do that to write something that was.
Well, hopefully decent. People seem to like it.
Yeah, I really do.
How long did it take from when you made it a career choice to when you had any success?
Was it six months? Was it three years? How scary was that?
And how long did it before you went I actually do feel like I've made the right choice.
I mean the moment that I was offered a publishing deal for a girl called Courts, which is the first one there, there was no question about it. I knew that I you know, that this is what I wanted to do and that I had made the right choice.
But in the years proceeding that, you know, I think that happened when I.
Was was it maybe I was thirty three, So that's eight years of between twenty five and thirty three, that's eight years of writing without having any success.
Yeah.
And I say this a lot when people say, oh, what's the hardest part of being a writer, it's absolutely the self doubt. You know, there were so many there were so many hurdles to overcome, and so many setbacks along the way. It would have been very easy to decide that it was all too hard, or that it was not going to work, that it wasn't going to happen for me. It just so happens. I'm a very stubborn person, and.
It wouldn't stop. Yeah. But as soon as that opportunity came along, you know, I was in.
You know, we always remember the success stories, and we always forget the grit and the determination and the grind that was going on, whether it's you know, I was only hearing her, was it? Matt Damon on a podcast last week, and you know he was going to audition after audition or after audition and getting callbacks but never
getting it and him Beneflete. We're best friends and they're going through this process together and then they decided to write a movie and it having to be Good Will Hunting and they won an Oscar for the writing, and yeah, like we had to be and they joke that, yes, we won an Oscar for that incredible movie, but we actually wrote the script to give ourselves apart because no one else would give us one.
And you go, well, that's Matt Damon. That's crazy.
But you know, like these absolute legends of our lifetime that still were doing it tough. And I'm sure everybody now goes, ah, Recee was always going to be successful.
Years.
Yeah, I can tell you it didn't feel like it was going to happen at some points, but yeah, you're quite right, like whether it be a sports person, an athlete and act because we only become aware of them once they had some degree of success, it's easy to think of that as their starting point but the starting points well before that, and I will you know, I'm sure that with Matt Damon as the example, as he
said it was trying going to audition. Going to audition wasn't working, but he was determined, so he found another way to do it. And I'm sure if that hadn't worked, he would have found another way to do it, another way to do it.
Yeah, which is really good.
I mean, I sometimes feel a bit guilty when I talk to my friends who hate their jobs, and most well I speak to don't necessarily hate their job, but they don't like it. And I love what I do, I genuinely love it. And then when I have these deeper conversations with people that are really not enjoying what they do, I'm quite bullish in saying to them, you get one life, and if you are unhappy, you know these people I speak to that are ten years in,
sometimes twenty years in. Or I've been saying to myself, I'm going to change careers because I don't even know how I ended up here, but I don't like it. It doesn't interest me. I'm not stimulated, there's nothing really keeping me here. Accept sort of fear of the unknown or fear of change. How scary was it? And what would your advice be to others that are sitting there going I'm not sure if this is what I was
meant to spend my life doing. Okay, question without notice, I know, and I know it's a big one.
So it's okay, And it is a big one, because, to be completely honest with you, I was so ready to leave nutrition by the time it happened. I had actually I was one of those people who hated my job. I had fallen out of love with it completely. And if you had to ask me why, I would probably say I'd grown quite frustrated with the way the industry had changed in Australia. I think it had come to a point that it was extremely fad based. There are
a lot of it still prought up. It still is, absolutely it still is, and there are voices, there are great voices out there, you know, like yourself, cutting through that.
But I don't think I had.
It in me to do that, and I really, you know, it really took a toll on my mental health participating in this industry that i'd really grown quite disillusioned with, I suppose, And it was a really scary time for me, because, as I said, I was working.
As a nutritionist.
Now, my degree and my post grad study are not a particularly transferable set of skills, and I didn't want to be in that industry anymore. And I didn't know what else was really available to me, and I didn't know whether a publisher would ever buy one of my novels. So it took a real real impact on my mental health. And I was really frightened because I didn't know what I was going to do. And so you know, that's probably part of the reason why I went. A publishing
contract was put in front of me, I jumped. I was really well and truly ready to make that change.
And just to push you a little bit harder, if someone said to you that you never met they were inspired by your story. I've been working at a bank for twelve years. I go to work every day. I'm so uninspired. I'm so you know, I feel like I'm a creative person or whatever it might be. What would your advice be, should I quit my job? Let's say that was that direct. If they said, rees should I quit my job?
What would I what would you say?
I would actually come back with another question, and I would say, well, how creative are you being right now? I would ask how much time are you spending being creative right now? Because there are benefits that come from creativity, even if it doesn't become your job, you know.
What I mean.
And so people who say, oh, I think I'm a creative person. I would like to write or act or sing, whatever it may be, I'd ask them how much time they're spending doing it, and doing it now, And if they're not spending any time, just do it an hour a day, an hour a week, if that's all you can manage. You know, I was writing alongside a career. I didn't jump out of nutrition without without something to jump into. I just knew that it was something I wanted to do. I didn't know how long it was
going to take, but I started writing. I started writing and said I will continue to work towards this. And so I suppose that that's what I would say to them. I wouldn't sort of recommend they check out their job, but I'd just start pursuing your passion.
Now.
You don't have to leave your stable job, you don't have to do anything, just start being creative.
Actually, that's a brilliant answer, and I just it just makes me think where we lose our hobbies along the way, and I think, you know, work gets super busy, social life gets super busy. Then kids come along and you just you don't even know which ways up anymore for a few years there, if not a decade in some case, depending how many kids you have and what your circumstances are.
I mean, I look at my wife.
Sneze, who's a brilliant painter and drawer, but I've never seen her really do it unless it's making around with the kids. And she's very talented, and she talks about you know, I used to have an easel at home and go out in the garden and paint, and you know, I listen to your advice, and I think that I think she would benefit from a mental perspective and a happiness perspective enormously from reintroducing that once a week into her routine. It doesn't have to be for three hours
every day. I think that's really good advice.
That's exactly it. You know.
I think if there's part of your nature that is creative, and I think for most people, to varying degrees.
That is the case.
There are huge benefits to happiness from just flexing that creative muscle and doing it and so and as you know, you made a really good point there about the fact we often lose hobbies. I think the world can make us feel quite guilty about spending time on things that aren't productive, things that we do purely for the joy
of it. And so as commitments build up, whether it be work, family, you know, there's so much to be stressed about, and there's so much for us to do in our busy lives, it is often one of the things that gets swept aside or gets neglected, hobbies. And I think a big part of the reason is they're again not productive. But there's so much benefit to come just from you know, as I said, flexing that muscle, pursuing whatever that creative passion is that you've got.
It's so funny you say that, I, you know, I haven't read sort of business books or you know, and whatever. At work we bang it emails. No, and that's an eyelid. But I had a mate who was meeting me at my office. It would have been a year ago probably, and I was actually reading a novel and I'll see on my couch in my office reading a novel and he's like, what are you reading?
Because it wasn't clearly wasn't anything to do with my work. I said, I just realized that I'm ready and it was.
And his responses all that must be nice was in like, oh, how much spare time do you have?
Like what bit?
Yeah, Like it was a throwaway comment. He wasn't being an asshole, but it was just, you know, it was a really interesting reaction to something that I'd sort of broken away a little thirty or forty five minute pocket, and it was just something that it was an escape
for me. I guess, you know, when there's lots of reading as part of your work and you're always around people, it's just nice to sort of disconnect yourself a little bit and take yourself, you know, let your imagination run wild, which again we say we lose our hobbies when we've become adults. We all most our imagination our sense of fun as well.
Well, well, it's one hundred percent.
It's interesting to use imagination and fun in the same sentence there, because being creative or being imaginative is player. I think that's part of the reason why I love it so much. It's remaining curious about the world around you. It's being playful. It's you know, looking at real life situations and then imagining them in a different way, in my case, imagining what they might be if magic existed.
You know what I mean.
It's play and so it is fun innately, it's fun to do.
So I've gotten to know you over the last twenty minutes. Race, what's this book? What's what's your first book about? We would have lots of parents listening to this podcast. Where did the idea come from? What is a girl called Corps? It's a fairly interesting name, and tell us a bit about it.
So I'll start with where it came from, because I think that's the way this story works best. I was living with a made of mine in Paddington. We were in a sort of terrace style house, you know, a little bit older, a little bit run down, and the manhole up into the roof was in my bedroom and I had the strangest habit of just popping open for no reason, and so first couple of times it happened,
just thought it was weird. The third time it happened was late at night, I was touched up in bed lights were off, looked up and as my.
Eyes adjusted to the darkness, I saw that it was open again.
At that time was a little bit scary, not gonna lie, And so I started questioning. You know, I said that creativity is curiosity. I started asking myself questions, All right, who are what would be in a roof? Why would they be looking down? What would they want? What would
they look like? And I came up with this character of corpse, who was a kid ghost made of wax and you know, and I sort of grabbed a piece of paper and a pen and I wrote down everything I knew about her, went to sleep, and the next day I started.
I sat down and I started writing her story. As soon as I imagined her, I sort of not just saw what she looked like, but I sort.
Of how she sounds, sense how she sounds.
And most importantly, when writing a character, what she wants more than anything. And that's really important because that then gives you a story. You know, does she get it?
Does she not? Does it look different to what she imagined it would? You know?
So I can't It sounds you know, very airy fairy that this character came to me fully formed, But she really did, and it made the process of writing A Girl Called Corpse reasonably straightforward. I think I wrote every other manuscript i'd written before then took me probably two years. Each one took two years. I think I wrote the first draft of A Girl Called Corpse about four months, and then spent two months editing it and then sent
it out. So that's how that came about. And the one thing I haven't actually told you was what the story is about.
Well, I didn't know how much you were. I didn't know if there are any spoiler alert. I wasn't sure what she could tell with that.
I mean, it's probably not your audience listening to my podcast, I must admit, so you can probably you can probably divulge a bit if I don't have this ter many eight to twelve year olds listening to The Woodlife on a weekly basis.
Yeah, that you make a good point, but still I won't give away any spoil I have heard from some enthusiastic parents who really enjoyed reading it after their kids.
It's good.
I like to spoiler.
But it's about this kid ghost who has built herself a body made out of wax. She's got seaweed for hair, abaloni, shells for eyes, pibbles for teeth. But what she doesn't have her memories. She doesn't know what her real name was when she was a kid. She doesn't know who her family was. She doesn't know why she was snatched by witches and became a ghost in the first place.
And so when she learns there's a treasure.
Out there which can reunite her with all of those answers, she had her best mate, a Huntsman spider by the name of Simon, go searching for that treasure.
It's like, Hunts's fine, I love it. And then Simon just stops it off, just when you think it's going to be a really wacky name. It's just Simon.
I love that.
That is gold. And so what's the How has that success been? Was the success of that book becoming a bestseller immediate or is it a pretty steady rye does? How does success in that market come about?
Is it very much word of mouth?
Is it through the school system, is it through publicity or was it just instantaneously a success?
Look, it was a.
Success pretty quickly, but that was because of the hard work of my publishers. I suppose they believed a lot in the book, and they did a lot of a lot in the lead up to its release in terms of marketing it to booksellers, getting copies out there, getting reading copies out there, building buzz about it, which is a really fortunate position to find myself in as well, so that when it was released it did well quite quickly, which, as you can.
Imagine, going from having had.
No success and wondering if it was ever going to happen, to all of a sudden having a book that really did strike the right note and had that sort of support from publishers, but also you know that response from booksellers, librarians, kids was really overwhelming and very exciting.
I'll say two things.
I love just hearing the passion in your voice, and whether or not you have eight to twelve year olds, or whether or not this is your genre, It just it really does reinforce how much you love what you do and how authentic it.
Is and how passion it is.
And I just think, irrespective of whatever field you're in, irrespective of your creative endeavors, that really is probably what deep down we're all striving for. And it's it saddens me that such a small percentage, you know, probably five percent or less, probably much less actually have that, and I think it's just awesome that you have.
You have found it.
And second of all, when does the multi million dollar movie deal come out?
You know, I keep asking myself the same question.
When any day now? Any day?
Any day now?
Yeah, it's a TV series or movie series written all over it, mate, And I'm sure it's not.
If it's when, that's that's fantastic. I just it was.
It's just a really nice different guest to have on the show today. And you know, it's such a cliche. You do what you love and you never work a day in your life. And I can just see, mate, you'll be doing this for decades to come, making millions of children all over the world very very happy and making you very happy successful at the same time. And congratulations. I'm sure many of our listeners will be going out and getting it for their kids or nieces or nephews
or whatever it might be. And Mate, thanks so much for joining us today and the Woodlife.
Thanks so much. Sam.
There you go. Rees.
What a lovely, lovely guy and as I sort of said, very unique, different to our guests that we normally have on the show, but I genuinely meant it when I sort of was mentioning to him that we look at all these different ways that we can have happiness, and your relationships as top of that list, and taking care
of our health. But I think doing something for us when we spend all of our time stressing about our health and worrying about other people, when we do tend to forget about doing something just small, but often for ourselves, and having a creative outlet or a little hobby is something that is so important. And we're going to actually continue on with that theme in today's episode as we have a question from Josh that is just along those lines.
Hey, Sam, I've been feeling really stressed and in a rut lately. Everyone is telling me I should get a hobby. Just doing hobbies really help to lower stress. Josh from Brisbane.
Thanks Josh.
It's one of those things I feel a bit guilty commenting on it because I absolutely don't have enough hobbies myself, or I'm not consistent enough with it. I find it is always the first thing to go. I sort of introduce it and I have a couple of good weeks and then and then the water levels rise with kids and work or whatever it might be, and it always seems to be the thing that gets squeezed. So as I give you this advice, please take note that I'm talking to myself as much as I'm talking to all
of you. I guess is my point. But the research does show that people with hobbies are less likely to experience stress, low mood, and depression.
So that's pretty damn powerful starting point.
And the importance of play and activities is actually really closely linked with us getting into a flow state, and I think this is a really interesting point. We often think that we need to know what time it is, and we need to be punctual, and we need to be structured, and we need to be efficient. Getting into a state of play helps you get into this flow state where it actually is a good thing that you
lose track of time. And I just I just think, when was the last time I lost myself in a creative or fun or play pursuit, genuinely lost track of time. And when you've got a lot of people responsible for you, you tend to need to know what time it is, when's your next meeting, what's time I'm going to pick up the kids from school, what time it's dinner, blah blah blah.
But God, it's.
Nice when you don't have to think about it. And for me, it wouldn't be unless I'm on holidays, like unless I can actually switch to your emails off and I'm playing at the beach, and the only thing that sort of tells me what time it is is how hungry I am and perhaps how close it is to lunch time. It very rarely happens that I'm not quite consciously aware of what time it is within sort of
a fifteen or thirty minute bracket. So I think as a good little test to you, our listeners, is how do you find a pursuit of play and creativity or a fun activity where you genuinely lose yourself, get into
that flow state and lose your sense of time. The other advice that I thought was really interesting that they give on this topic is it's really healthy to have a hobby that is for your mind and a hobby that is your body, as they both sort of serve you in very different ways, and if you cover both bases, you tend not to just gravitate towards your strength. You
tend to cover both bases. The other thing that they said was try and also have one of those hobbies be something that connects you to other people, because otherwise you tend to just go inward all the time with one of these hobbies or activities that you're taking on board. And there's a lot of power in connecting with community from a happiness and a well being from a social
health perspective. So if you can have one hobby for your body and one for your brain or mind, and one hobby that connects you with other people and one that's perhaps more of an intrinsic individual opportunity, then I think that would be really good advice. And then the question I always get is, oh, Sam, principally, I understand the advice at a big picture level, but what hobbies could I do?
Now? You can do anything.
I mean, you can go to dance classes, social netball, pub qui, jewelry at home, do drawing, reading, book club, tennis lessons, learn a language. I mean, you can do it all. There's no right answer, there's no wrong answer. But what I would say is absolutely should be something that you love and that you're curious about, and it should be your thing. I think piggybacking onto someone else's
hobby is why we often don't like it. We might like that person, and we might like that their company, and we might think, oh, this is a good way for us to hang out together, but you often end up heading down a path where it's not really anything that excites your interests you or is something that you're
passionate or curious about. So try and do your own thing and meet new people in the process, and not worry too much about what others are doing or what others are saying, would be my advice, And let go of your expectations. I think we talk ourselves into doing these things before we even give them a try, and so often if you can go with a blank canvas and a an open mind, you'll be really blown away
at how much you enjoy it. And then the last two little bits of advice on the hobby topic, there's a lot of research to show that when you do take up a hobby, you're much better at being relaxed, rested, and happy, much more so than, say, compared to sitting on the couch watching Netflix or watching TV each night. It really does achieve those things that perhaps you feel like you're achieving doing the same thing night in, night out at a much greater level. And this is where
I need to take my own advice. When you do find it so that it does stick, put it into your calendar like a business appointment that you need to keep. Don't have it in there as something flaky. The second life gets busy or something else comes along, then you dismiss it too easily, because sometimes it takes a little bit of time to get in the group with these things.
Josh, I hope that helps.
I hope that advice carries across to all of you, because I think, as I said to Reese today, who knows where we lose our hobbies along the way, but as adults, we typically have at some point in time, and there is so much research out there to show the importance from a well being and a health perspective mentally and physically by giving them a try or having them as a regular part of our.
Routines and schedules. And I'd love to hear from you.
I'd love to hear what hobbies perhaps you've taken up in your adult life that have been game changes, or if you want to commit yourself by sending me a note on the show about what you're going to try, maybe just to keep yourself a bit accountable. I'd love to hear from him with that too. There's a link in the show notes. As always and until next week, I speak to them