A quick note before we start. On February 26th, 2026, we're bringing together podcasters and learning professionals at St Mary's Sumner House in London for the Podcast Learning Festival. It's a chance to explore how audio storytelling is changing the way organisations learn, share knowledge and build capability. Early bird tickets are on sale at podcastlearningfest .live. The link is in the show notes. Right, let's get into
it. Hello everyone and welcome to this episode, the Women Networks one of the Women Talking About Learning podcast. I'm Andrew Jacobs. When our audience suggested this topic, we knew immediately who we needed to ask to be on it. For an episode which explores people's apprehension of networking, setting up their own networks and finding the right tribe, we needed some excellent guests. And we have them. Our first guest is Sharon Green. Sharon is a professional interim, qualified coach
and consultant at Kiara Consultancy. She runs projects that focus on people change, people technology and people experience. Sharon's main Pay It Forward passion project is running the HR Interim Networking Group, a global LinkedIn community providing peer -to -peer support for people professionals working as interims, coaches, consultants, contractors, solo entrepreneurs and freelancers. Our next guest is Helen Marshall. Helen is Head of Learning at Thrive and it is
multifaceted. She leads the team of content designers and oversees the content they create as they strive to be responsive to the needs of their clients. Helen also works very closely with their content club and platform customers to figure out exactly how the content, campaigns and pathways can be used in the flow of customers' work to support their people. Helen created WomenIn, a WhatsApp community for women in L &D, HR, and people teams. Our third guest is Rhonda Martin.
Rhonda's work sits across talent development, mentoring, coaching, and inclusive leadership. She leads on client relationships and stakeholder management, and she uses that commercial grounding to design and run mentoring, coaching, and senior leadership programs that actually work inside organizations, not just on paper. Alongside her consultancy work, Rhonda serves on the board of City Women Network as chair for corporate
relationships. Before that, she chaired the mentoring programme for women in telecommunications, building a cross -industry network for the telecoms, media and technology sectors. Recorded in early November of 2025, this is Women Talking About Learning. This is Sharon, Helen and Rhonda talking about women networks. Wow, lovely to see you, Rhonda and Helen. I'm so excited for this conversation. How are you doing today? Oh, I'm really well. Thank you. I'm really happy to be here. My first
one with yourself. So really good. Thank you. Yeah, also really good. And Rhonda, Sharon, lovely to see you both or meet you both. Obviously, Sharon, you and I have met online virtually previously, but Rhonda, you and I have only met for the first time today. So very excited to get into networking and what it means and what it means to us. And yeah, I suppose that's a great place to start. isn't it? What does it mean? Why did we want
to come and talk about it today? And maybe we have different perceptions or very similar perceptions of networking. Yeah, it can mean different things to different people, can't it? So should we think about answering that question then, what it means to us? Yeah, I think that would be a great place to start. Rhonda, what's your feeling about the word network or networking? I love the word networking. And I think it means different things to meet
different people. But I see a network and networking as just an extension of my life. So I look at them broadly into sort of two areas. The way I think about being in a network and wanting to join a network in my personal life. And then I look at networks from a business perspective. And in my role, in my day job. working for the
pipeline. We do a lot of work developing women's careers and jobs, etc. But I know, and through my pro bono work as well, that being part of a community and a forum for all the people and myself is where people get a lot of support. So I'm going to pause there. So I see the world and word of networks as something... that looks very different for lots of different people. So businesses have ERGs, people have volunteer
groups. So I think it's worth sort of unpicking a little bit about what a network means to different people at different times for different reasons. So that's my sort of opening reflection. And Helen, what does it mean for you and kind of why coming to this conversation? I'm curious. Yeah, and I think Rhonda, you're exactly right. That kind of... There's a lot of different nuances, I think, when it comes to what a network is or then people's perception of what that is and
also the impact that they can have. So my perspective on this is I see real value in the types of conversations that you have with people and have done throughout
my career. It's the foundation of any... good L &D professional I think is the ability to make strong relationships with people and so in my work when I've been doing that I've been thinking well actually it's not only useful from a that personal professional perspective within the I suppose confines of an organization but as you start to step outside of of that bubble the the value starts to amplify in terms of how you're networking who you're networking with the conversations
you have the perspectives you can bring into your own work or then even your own business as well so it's that kind of amplification of knowledge and information um that can serve you as an individual in terms of your career but then also the perspectives that you can bring to those people um and I suppose my my real interest in this particular topic was because I'm founder of a particular network for women called Women In which is for women in L &D, HR and associated
people spaces or anything associated with women in that space and so it's really important for me to recognise that actually this kind of opportunity for people to connect and to share ideas, to
learn from each other, to grow together. is it was really needed when i set it up and it's clearly still needed now because we've escalated to over a thousand members and it's continuing to grow so there's a need there and so for me it's yes that personal professional angle but it's also the how can we contribute more to um lifting each other up to creating space for people and for sharing knowledge and for that diversity of thought that all of that brings there's probably
even more that I could say but I'll stop there because I'm conscious I've been talking a while and Sharon I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well well I mean so much of what you kind of both said kind of resonated really what a surprise that's why I'm here I think I think I probably had in maybe way back I probably had quite like a negative perception of networking I think And I think I probably felt that it was a certain type of thing and that I felt quite
nervous about the thought of networking, if I'm honest. And I know that a lot of people who come to my network feel similarly. And so I think there is a little bit of a thing about the word and the connotations. But I think over time and over the course of my career, permanent being in a permanent world, but also being independent, I think I've come to kind of reframe it. And for me, it's kind of like when I break it down
as. like making connections one conversation at a time, that feels slightly more manageable, a little less scary. I don't really feel that kind of dread like, you know, how you imagine going into a room full of people you don't know and that you're somehow meant to work the room. And there's these things that I think that can become attached to the words that I don't necessarily feel are helpful and facilitative. So for me, I'd probably say that calling it my community
that I run. I've always been networked. I've always liked meeting people, a bit like you were saying, both Helen and Rhonda. For me, it's about an extension. I don't really see barriers between community and work. I just feel like it's always on. I had an interesting chat in the coffee shop yesterday with somebody, and we then connected on LinkedIn, which is completely random. For me, it's kind of a bit like just meeting people,
basically. And I run a network, and I've got the words... network is called the HR intro networking community it's for people who are independent in a people space basically whatever they're doing coaching contracting freelancing solo entrepreneur whatever but for me the community and networking point is really important because for me it's a community vibe rather than a networking vibe but the two are connected so I'm here because it's personal and um whatever we call it I guess
I think I see the benefits of amplification, connectivity, learning. For me, feeling a little bit less alone, I guess, when I'm on my own working independently, which is really important. And so, yes, those things are the reasons why I think they're so valuable. And particularly for women, I think. I think there's something about... Thinking about the way I know we're here on a sort of podcast thinking about the networks in the context
of women. But if we think about what's happening in the world and, you know, the challenges that organizations are facing around D .E. and I and, you know, all the headwinds coming from the USA, the Trump executive orders, etc. I think the role of. Being in a forum or a community, and we're using the phrase ERG in businesses, is
becoming more and more important. I see that with my clients in the last few months because people need to be able to, you know, maybe six months ago, people could talk more freely about DE &I and inclusion. But I think the need for communities in business world has become even greater. They have a bigger role to play as networks in business life now than perhaps they did before
because they need to be a safe space. that people can share, people can bring leaders in, you know, communities that people can bring leaders in to talk about. So I think the role of networks in tradition, you know, in corporate life, which I'm referring to here specifically, is really, really important, probably more important than ever before. And as an individual, you can grow your social capital. And I really like that word social capital when thinking about the networks
that you belong to as well. Because if an organisation is struggling at the moment with many business issues, If the ERGs and the networks no longer exist, how are organisations going to know what communities and populations think? So I think there needs to continue and be more energy put around keeping the networks in the business life going and thriving. And I think there's a key critical piece that people don't talk about enough is networks, which is how they are led and managed.
And that's another piece. Because I belong to the City Women's Network. I'm on the board of them. And I'm just mentioning that, that people, I've been on the board for many years there. But I know that as our leadership has changed and our style has changed and our focus has changed, our membership and outputs and outcomes change. So I'm just going to pause there. I think being part of a network is also part of, you know,
looking at the leadership as well. You know, who's leading it and how well is it being led and what role can you play as an individual in
that? yeah it's a really it's a really important aspect i think of i think historically and this is maybe a bit of a sweeping statement but when we when it comes to ergs and i'm particularly talking from my perspective of seeing ergs run across a variety of different customers and sectors industries that they're often seen as kind of a nice to have and they're there you create that space for people but there's no real strategy behind them and i would say that's that that's
historically that's been the perspective but i'm totally with you ronda that now there seems to be a change in conversation and i and i wonder if that is being driven by that lack of i don't know community essentially for want of a better word that we're experiencing in the in the world in general and all of the bad stuff that's going on how is that impacting us and what maybe not even all the bad stuff but the the change in technology with thinking about AI and the fact
that we're now leaning more into the human -ness of people, then actually we're seeing that value of bringing people together around particular topics and subjects in order to drive change. But we need visionary leaders and people who are going to be accountable for driving the strategy of those ERGs or community groups within an organisation to make sure that they're having an impact. And I think that kind of social capital angle you
were talking about is definitely right. And I always remember Fiona Barron, who is one of the original members of the women in community who works for a company called T -minus currently, which is focused on equality in the workplace, saying that your network is your net worth. And I always love that phrase because it is that
kind of. building a network amplifies the opportunities that you'll you'll have because you never know who you're going to meet if we're thinking about lnd specifically it's a very small it can suddenly feel like a very small place to be and you never know who you're talking to and the impact that that person's going to have so yeah we're touching a few points there but it whilst we're talking it also reminded me of time when a very anecdotal story but i was headed to a training session
when i was i think this is when i was a phd student i was headed to a training session on a train it was a very busy train and as you do when the train stops everyone got up and tried to get off all at once instead of you know waiting like you should do on an airplane for all the lines in front of you to get off before you and it really annoys me when people do that so I stopped and then left let a lady off and she was like oh thank you so much she got off and then 10
minutes later we ended up in the same training room together and she was actually the person delivering the training session and we were like oh hi and it was that kind of you never know the impact that you're going to have on someone and she was I really appreciated you letting me off the train and that had a real impact and it's a very small moment but it's things like that that you don't know who you're going to meet what impact you're going to have and how
that person is going to amplify your journey, your story or vice versa that can also feed into that. So, yeah, lots of different different ideas that I think are worth unpicking. Sharon, I'd be keen to hear your perspective. Well, yeah, I was kind of I'm going to declare that I feel slightly uncomfortable with the word social capital
and also the net. working network for me I guess and that's to do with me you know my kind of I guess my background you know my driver for running a community and also for what I think sometimes networking can be particularly I think for women I am going to gender it because we are on the women in learning podcast so so I think that there's something where that feels quite whilst I recognize that you can that it is about social capital on one level I think
if I think if I personally viewed it through that lens all the time I think there's an element of avoiding the systemic you know challenges, I think, that women have, particularly networking within corporate organisations, where they might have an underrepresentation at board level, for example, where networking might be seen as a way of gaining career advancement, which is real, but also it doesn't necessarily facilitate some of the barriers to entry that I think are very
real, not just for women, but for other underrepresented
groups. etc so I think there's an element that makes me feel quite uncomfortable talking about it even though I recognize by the fact that I mean I run an unpaid network it started a very long time ago I saw it change during Covid particularly when I think people valued the connectivity even virtually rather than in real life so much more I think there's something in some of the words that we might use around it that feels quite transactional and almost like you get something
from me Helen or you get something from me Rhonda and then I take back whereas I think that a community or a network is probably a bit more for me about connecting other people to other people for which I get a benefit which I might not necessarily be able to tangibly realize but it's just magic you know in a sense so I think there's an element of community building for me as opposed to and once I realized that I guess it freed me from some of the constraints I think that networking
events have for me personally or my view of networking had for me personally so and there can be Yeah, I'm going to stop there, really, because for me, some of the things that are really intrinsic to my value on my brand, I guess, are around paying it forward. So when I invite people into my community or I talk about it, I don't really talk about it very much. But from here, people recommend people to join and then I give them
some community blurb. And one of the words is like, you know, we have a pay it forward ethos. If that's your jam, come along. And it isn't everybody's jam, right? And that's OK, because there's tons of other networks that I'm really happy to publicise and share so that somebody will find their people, even if I'm not their people. So for me, it's about that, I guess.
And so I'm wondering if you see any differences for women networking over, I mean, obviously we're all women, so we can talk from our perspective, but do you see any kind of gender differences there? Yeah, because there's a question that, yeah, there's a question which is coming in the chat and I don't know whether you'd seen that. And it's a good link into this, which is, you know, is, you know, is networking hard or different,
easier for women? So I think we could build, let's think about that as well, because in my experience, I think women in, as a massive generalisation though, will be more open about seeking support. And I observe. I observe my own experience that women might be sometimes feeling more. What's the word? In a male dominated culture, say in the workplace, they might historically in the years previously might have been less comfortable speaking up. There might be challenges in a male
dominated culture, for example. So I think a lot of women will. find it easier to perhaps ask for support if there's a network specifically set up for themselves. I don't have the neuroscience data at my fingertips, but I continue to read that women respond differently under pressure and that we therefore might need to seek out the company of others to share those problems with. So is it different and easier for women?
I find that quite difficult to be scientific in my evaluation of, but I know there's neuroscience to support the men and women learn and process communications and emotions differently. I guess the networks have been set up specifically for women in response to a need. You know, I think men, I think an answer could be, well, men and women learn and communicate differently. So actually that could be part of a more... That could lead
to a more thorough answer to that question. I think maybe monocultures are at play when you're looking about how people communicate in organisations. If there's a very male -dominated culture, a women's network might appeal for obvious reasons because the women might want to be able to speak more freely. But I'm going to pause there. What do you, Helen, think, and Sharon, on that specific question about how much easier or different is
networking for women? Yeah, well, what I've seen and what I've heard, certainly in the network, the community that I run, but also the communities that I know others run as well, is that the conversations wouldn't evolve or happen in the same way if
they weren't women only. And I think that there's something around the safety that's created in those environments for people to say things, to surface things and not... have an element of fear hanging over them and I don't I don't necessarily like you Rhonda I don't necessarily know exactly what that is or why that is just that there is a need there to create a safe space for people I have faced personal challenge from people saying well if a man set up a male network
everyone would be up in arms about it and I I actually really disagree on that. I think networking spaces for men are really needed and community groups to help men have the right conversations and talk more openly. Because to your point, Rhonda, women tend to be able to. have open and upfront and honest conversations about the depths of people's lives and the feelings and emotions
that go along with that. And my perception is that men can sometimes struggle more to do that because of the societal pressures that have been put on them historically. So creating spaces
for both is, I think, is required. when when it comes to I mean think I wonder or Sharon I can't remember whether it was which one of you it was but you mentioned about the nervousness that comes I think Sharon it was you talking about women in your community there's a nervousness that comes when you say the word networking I think that nervousness is the same for men and women and we we we have the perspective of because we run um female communities we see it more often
that it is a women that are having that conversation but I've spoken to many male colleagues and they have the same concerns about I don't really like networking I don't want to do it but I don't know I don't know what what whether there's any differences that you've seen Sharon but I think it's really interesting it's really interesting to think about those female spaces are definitely needed and but the male spaces are as well and then those cross groups it just depends what
the purpose of what you start for I run a cross -group, so my group is for anybody who works independently. But what I do notice is, and I do completely acknowledge the nervousness or the view of networking or the idea of it being a club that's quite closed and where you might be in an out -group rather than an in -group. I think all of those things are kind of probably
gender mutual. And when I was asking my community their thoughts on networking ahead of this, because I thought, oh, I'd be really curious to know what they think. There was lots of, oh, you know, I feel nervous coming into a room of people, you know, a stereotypical networking event, a big room of people I don't know, you know, and tips that they would share to kind of facilitate that, get over the nerves, etc. I mean, there
was no difference in gender. And I get interesting feedback from both the men and the women that are in my community. But I do think that, I mean, I was reading some research ahead of our chat today because I thought, oh, well, I should really look at proper research, not just my anecdotal research of running a community for the last 16 years or whatever. And there was some interesting stuff about how we group together, like similar
people group together. And I can definitely see that in my... network i see more women probably than men and that's probably to do with the fact that i'm a woman you know um so there's this concept of you know us seeking out like like -minded people and so i think there's a responsibility when we run a community or a network or we bring people together about creating that safe space that allows people who may have varying feelings about coming together to feel safe um i do think
there's probably some specific things particularly networking in real life that i was thinking about around safety that might be more women orientated than men just because of psychological not just psychological safety but actual physical safety you know like feeling safe within a network with a group of you know other people maybe a lot of men for example which I have felt myself and do notice but I do think there's an onus on when we build communities whether it's in the work
or out to create that psychological safety and that safe space where everybody feels welcome yeah particularly people from out groups or underrepresented groups etc yeah I'm not sure where that leads us in the conversation Well, I think there's something that I think is important to, as we think about the impact or the role of networks and particularly women's networks, thinking about post -COVID and the fact that many of us had different experiences of working and being remote.
And then looking at the intergenerational landscape, I see a lot of... let's call it the Gen Zs and the millennials, really, really just working very naturally with technology. And they were already talking, they looked at their networks differently than perhaps other generations and
other population families might look at. So I think that's a consideration when you're thinking about the impact of women's networks, you know, the power of technology to connect people quickly might be more, might be easier for some age groups more than others, or might be more second nature. I see that a lot and particularly around the
use of WhatsApp and that kind of thing. So I think if I was setting up a network now, I would be mindful of how people like to communicate and how people like to receive information, go to events and be streaming. And I think from
an organisational perspective. running ERGs now so many I know from the work I do my clients will say well actually we want to stream this we want to download this we want to in a way that you might not have done maybe 10 years ago so I think that's a consideration as well and then the neurodiversity aspect to overlay over that as well which is another conversation but Yeah, I definitely agree with that, Rhonda, in terms of the type of technology or channels that
are useful for people to interact with and what's going to work for different audiences and how you can also think about that from a networking perspective. I think I actually think a lot of L &D events specifically, obviously, because that's where I spend most of my time, are not doing a great job of that cross -generational
gap filling. And we're still quite... old school when it comes to events come and if you look at kind of the actual events sector itself doing really great interactive experience driven conferences as an example and then it it it's it's not meeting people where they are so it has this kind of perception of it always almost causes that friction of what i mean i talk about this quite a lot in my own work but that friction between what people are expecting and what they're actually
experiencing and so I definitely think channel matters particularly for engaging younger younger generations in in the right conversations and we've never been more globally connected as as a pop as populations and I think we we can potentially take that for granted a little bit that actually um it taking for take it for granted that we're not we're even more the possibilities of connection are even more at our fingertips but it's also that disadvantage of How do you know how to leverage
that or utilize it and get the right information from those places as well? I think channel, I think it's kind of multi -channel for me. Multi -channel is about, is where it's at really. So some people I know in my network. So I've got like over 3 ,000 people in the network globally. The majority are in the UK, then the Netherlands is the next biggest audience and then it spreads out plus Europe and then some kind of outliers both in US, Canada, South America and then the
Far East. What I see is that people want a mix. So virtual in real life. So everything went virtual during COVID. The WhatsApp chats channels that I run connected to the community. Some people join them. Some people don't want that. They feel overwhelmed with information. Some people feel less tech savvy about using WhatsApp and
searching on it. formulate tips to try and help people navigate it but some people just don't want it they're overwhelmed and they don't want it and then linkedin being a community area but then some people are having i guess second thoughts about that as a platform and so one of the consistent challenges i think is finding the light space and creating yeah whatever the space is whatever the tool is for me it's about creating that the safety the values the purpose and trying even
as it grows so we started off as a pub group right very small meeting in real life and so even as it grows keeping the purpose the intent and the feeling i guess behind it to keep it going and sustaining it yeah and i think that if we bring it back to say learning because obviously this is a women talking about learning podcast then i guess um you know do we think And, you know, what do we think about networks for L &D?
I mean, I'm going to declare my hand. I mean, I learn so much from listening to other people chatting about stuff I have no idea about. Right. And I benefit so much. So when people ask me, why do I run this network for free? I kind of like I'm getting all of this wisdom. from all of these people about stuff that I had no idea
about. And it really makes me think about if I was back in house again, how my community building experience and expertise would really help internally, particularly around building communities of practice, for example, or getting people to connect across organisation, build skills together, learn from
each other. So what do you think? But I think building on what you were saying, that bringing it back to skills specifically inside an organisation is a really interesting angle from the particular
challenges. So I see that particularly smaller scale L &D teams, even individuals, because headcount and budgets have been cut so much, who are acting as individuals now, really crave that network to... challenge their best practice to challenge their ideas and to um think like to to say actually am i doing the right stuff for my organization and then when you come into the into a business and you're internal you can then say well actually that the the networks that people build and the
opportunities we afford to our own employees internally can actually increase the chances of talent mobility and therefore filling skills gaps if we have that awareness of knowledge of depth of understanding of enhancing skills in certain ways across an organization through community and i think that's where the real impact comes certainly sharon for both you and i from that perspective of and ronda you might be included in this forgive me but that kind of building
of We have that perspective of external community building and actually thinking about that internal perspective is hugely powerful and has so much potential, I think. Do you agree, Rhonda? Yes, I do. And I do agree with that. But I think I would just add to that that what I'm seeing is from the thinking about the learning community, you know, people in organisations looking at L &D and HR is they are, I think they are. They're bandwidth. They have less bandwidth. They've
got to be really operational. Budgets are reduced. Everything, you know, everything is under increasing, you know, the challenges of transformation with performance. HR departments are really looking at how do I transform the organisation? But then we've also got to manage performance. I see all these tensions and then specifically they don't have access. always to have that strategic sounding
board. So I think that would be, you know, thinking about what I think learning departments are facing, but that's a real sort of, I say it's a dilemma really, or polarity is managing that. So how can we help some of these people? I wonder what ways can we share them between us about maybe how networks can support these people? My advice is definitely join a network and that doesn't
have to be a professional network. I think any sort of network or community group that resonates with you either personally or professionally is a great place to start because you have that ability to. As we said right at the beginning, to bring it full circle, to challenge your perspectives, to increase the connections you have with people and really kind of challenge your own thinking and your own ideas. And so if you haven't done
that, that would be my first point of call. And then I think from an organizational perspective, a lot of particularly larger organizations are running ERGs and they're often side of desk projects. So how can you leverage the network that you have around you to help you? to be strategic in what you're trying to deliver and really understand the business problems that exist within your particular environment and dig into. I know people
will be trying to do that. So I'm not trying to be dismissive and suggesting that no one's doing that. But how can we make sure we're having an impact and communicating that impact effectively and leveraging the right relationships internally to amplify that perspective and that shift that might be happening? Rhonda, what about you? What are your top tips? So I'm just going to share networks that I think can be helpful when you're
working in the kind of learning world. So I think finding out about trade associations, membership bodies, which are aligned to the work you do. And it could be functions or it could be sectors, you know, the Institute of Direct Marketing, the CIPD, the Institute of Chartered Accountants. They all run fantastic events for non -members, even if you're not a member. I would look at some of the LinkedIn groups. It's a nice place to start if you're feeling. more reticent about
joining something actively in person. I think Eventbrite, which has found me, is a fantastic place where if you show interest in learning events in Manchester or D &I events in London, the algorithm finds things for you. I think it's incredibly effective. And I think there's nothing like good old -fashioned, the proverbial grapevine, reaching out, where do your colleagues go? Where do the people you want to... do business with? Where do they hang out? And where would you like
to be? It's like, which communities would you like to belong to, even if you don't belong to them yet? And there is something also about why not set up your own? So I'm very much an intrapreneur. I'm always focusing about creating communities within businesses as well. Create your own network. And that could be another topic. So I think it's about taking some initiative. and just trying a few things. And it's always quite nice to go with someone, or it can be a good way to build
relationships. If you wanted to say to someone, would you like to come with me to join this particular club or network? And I think it's all about, lastly, you put in, you get out what you put in. Yeah, that's such good advice, Rhonda. I completely agree with you. And yeah, I really also like that perspective of just try it, just
experiment, just see what happens. And that's why Women In was formed, essentially, is that I picked up on a pattern and conversations that were happening and said, you know what, we're going to have to do something about this and just put something out there. And it's grown and amplified over time, but it was just that, let's just try something and see if it solves the problem. And you never know where it's going
to lead. Great to speak with you, Helen and Sharon, and good to be exploring this topic more and look forward to continuing at another time. Yeah, it's been a great conversation. Rhonda, it's been lovely to meet you, Sharon. Great to reconnect again. And I hope this has resonated with some people and people find value from the conversation we've had. I certainly have. Great to be involved in this conversation, Helen and Rhonda, and see you on screen. I'm really looking forward to
hearing the recording myself. What a great episode to finish this year on. We've recorded some awesome episodes this year and we have lots more to come. A massive thank you to Sharon, Helen and Rhonda for their insight into this topic and for their time in making this a brilliant recording. We're sure you want to connect with them afterwards and their details are in the show notes, along with information about how to connect with us
here at Women Talking About Learning. Please do remember to like and subscribe to the podcast on your podcast player. It really does make a difference in helping people find and recommend us. As this is the last episode of 2025, we'd like to wish you a very happy Christmas and a successful and peaceful new year. We're back on January 6th, 2026, and next time it's the third sector one. As always, thank you for listening, and we'll see you again soon.