Hello everyone and welcome to this episode, the data one of the Women Talking About Learning podcast. I'm Andrew Jacobs. There is more data around us than ever before. The amount of data generated worldwide, for example, has soared from 2 Zetabytes in 2010 to a whopping 64 .2 Zetabytes in 2020, which is more than the number of detectable stars in the cosmos. However, what
are we doing with it and how useful is it? To help iron out these questions we have two amazing guests, one who uses data in marketing and the other who uses data in AI. Our first guest is Rebecca Oliver. Through her business name Juxtam Marketing Solutions, Rebecca helps start -ups and businesses launching new products or services build smart, human -first marketing strategies that actually connect. She specialises in go -to market plans that don't just attract customers
but make people feel something. Her approach puts humans first, helping brands create marketing they're proud of and audiences proud to support. Our next guest is Rachel George. Rachel is a generative BI senior manager on the cutting edge of AI transformation within business intelligence. She is passionate about educating others in data and AI, creating an industry -leading data and AI summer school, which concluded its third year in 2025. recorded in July 2025. This is a fascinating
conversation, so settle back and enjoy. This is women talking about learning. This is Rebecca and Rachel talking about data. Hi, Rachel. It's good to be in touch. I'm Rebecca. Hey, Rebecca. Yeah, this is exciting, isn't it, getting on the Women in Learning podcast? How are you doing? Yeah, I'm good. I'm glad it's Friday, another week down. Just excited for the weekend now. How about you? Yeah, absolutely. I can't believe it's already Friday afternoon, right? It's one
of those weeks every week. Here we are talking about data. What else would you want to do on a Friday afternoon? I know, right? Who could ask for more? You know, I'm in a data role, so data is my life, which I'm enjoying. And so, yeah, why not get to sing its praises on a Friday afternoon? Oh, my gosh. I know. Tell me more about that. Yeah, so... I mean, I'm in the generative
BI space right now, right? So I work in the AI center of excellence, literally where all the fun stuff is happening right now in data and AI. So super, super exciting. And interestingly in a space where there's not actually that much learning around what generative BI is or even how to do it as a job. So all the challenges absolutely at our feet where I'm working at the
moment. How about you? Oh my gosh, I bet that is just... being right in the very infancy of a new thing is so exciting but also a bit daunting. So I'm coming from a marketing background so I use data a lot within my role as a marketing consultant and how data can fuel better marketing results, how data is at the fingertips of everybody in order to kind of make better decisions for
businesses and the growth of businesses. But what is really exciting, and I suppose translates well to you, Rachel, is that AI and marketing is such a hot topic right now. It's all everybody's talking about on LinkedIn. It's definitely fueling better results because it's making everybody's lives easier. But obviously it's a bit daunting because we're all thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to be taken over by a robot. What would your stance be on that, all the talk about LinkedIn?
What do you think? Oh, of course. I mean, I think... everybody is feeling that same level of insecurity right now and including folks who are in data roles, including folks who are creating AI products or even thinking is an AI going to build this AI product for me and replace me at some point. So I think we're certainly not alone, although
in very different industries. I'm kind of interested to see your kind of take on not only AI in marketing as, you know, all the content kind of generation that it's doing, which I'm sure is providing some of the insecurities there, but also from a data point of view, whether or not, you know, you're using any AI in that aspect of what you're trying to take from marketing as well. Yeah, no, that's a really interesting question. So the way I use AI is very much in the chat GPT
space. So you'll probably blow my mind. There's way more to it than that. But yeah, so I'll use it to validate an idea. So if I've got an idea and I wanna make that come to life, I'll use it just to, I almost get the AI to ask me questions back. So. have you thought about this? Have you missed out this opportunity for this target audience? And also to validate stats. I literally used it before this phone call to work out how many women are in marketing, as opposed to men. 62
% of women hold marketing roles. But just things like that. So I'm just using it as quick fire. Let me just double check this stat. Let me just work out this. And also I'll use it to represent sources as well. So like say, for example, I want to say something, but I want to... not say I found it on TikTok. I pulled this from this source, I'll ask ChatGPT to help that. So it'd be really interesting to know from your standpoint what else is out there other than ChatGPT and
what is it that you do on a day to day? Oh, absolutely. I mean, in generative BI, to put it quite simply, we have the GenAI large language model conversational interface that you have with ChatGPT, but we
put that over your traditional BI products. So instead of maybe getting like a summary or just pure kind of text -based output or even image generation, which we see really commonly out there in general population, you're actually seeing that the generative BI rather than the generative AI can analyze the data for you and can tell you a lot more stories about data and
can do it in an instant. So instead of having to be an analyst and taking a long time to create an analytics package and to create a narrative around that, some of the tools that we're seeing from some of the big tech players are allowing you to do that in seconds instead of days. So really cool in terms of technology, but it's also in its infancy. So I don't imagine that that's going to be something super widespread.
just yet, but yeah, we're at the forefront and doing our best to create some pretty cool stuff for our stakeholders. I'm sure that, you know, for your applications as well, would that make your life easier? Yeah, I mean, as soon as you said that, then I was like, wow, I mean, I've worked in marketing now for like 15 years. And the amount of times I've looked at an Excel sheet, I've just been like, what is this trying to tell
me? Because And naturally you would think if you are kind of running a marketing campaign or you've been briefed with getting something out there, the first thing you would do is look at what data you already have and how you can make that into a story and spin that into X percent of whatever in order to make an angle for any PR or any marketing pieces. So you might at times are looking at a set of data thinking, how can
I make this tell a story? Which it sounds like you're looking at tools that literally will pull out those stories for you and pull out those connections. And that is just so exciting. It's mind blowing. And I also think from the marketing space, we live in this world where there's so much pressure on us to get results. There's so much emphasis on almost like marketing just being
social media. So let's create this amazing TikTok, but then you're not having enough time because you're constantly chasing the viral moments, the trends. There's not enough time in the data,
analyze the data. So if there's tools that you're talking about that it does that for you at click of a button, then naturally we're just going to start getting better marketing results because we can still chase the trends and the viral moments, but we can support that with actual understanding of the data and what's going to land in terms of seasonality and getting better results. So that is like so exciting. I can speak from everybody
in the marketing world. I'm absolutely buzzing that you said that Rebecca, because that thankfully for me just confirms what we're trying to do within my department. We're very much wanting to put the, the owners back on folks within the business, folks within their area of expertise to do the things that they're experts at without having to spend so much time crunching numbers. And obviously you're going to still need folks who can do that. So we need folks to verify output,
do the more complicated stuff. But if your, if your day role is being a marketing expert, but you have to spend a lot of hours analyzing stuff, that's absolutely where. this kind of generative BI solution can come in and just make, hopefully make your life a lot easier. Yeah. And I think that's it. I think, again, like I say, I'm talking a lot about LinkedIn, but it's where a lot of marketing people spend their time and offload.
concerns. And I think there is a natural concern of, oh my gosh, but if I'm not spending hours looking at data spreadsheet, they're not going to need me in a full -time role. But then it's, I think the kind of luxury of marketing is that you might have all this data behind you. You might have all this kind of automation, but if you've not got a story and you've not got the human appeal, it's never going to land as cliche
as it is people by people. And I think it's stepping away from, oh my goodness, this is a warning sign that these... automations are getting cleverer and better equipped but seeing it as a way that how can that help you but knowing that you're always going to be secure if you can sell a story on personality as well as data and backing. So yeah, no, it is an exciting space to be in but it doesn't stop the natural concerns of all the
taking over the world. I'd like to think they can't always tell a really personal story and get that kind of really emotive language. which we're looking for, which I think chat GPT falls short sometimes. I think you can really tell when you can see a chat GPT post over an actual person's post with spelling mistakes and emotion and just that personal element that we all crave. Oh, yeah. And I mean, the way that a large language model works, right, is it gives you the most
likely next word within a sentence. It's all really cool statistics. I say really cool statistics as if many other people will think statistics is cool, but in my point of view, it's really cool statistics. I love that Rebecca, you're on the same page as me here. The nature of statistics is never going to be 100 % accurate and because it's going to always give you that most likely next thing, it means that they're all going to
sound the same. From a marketing point of view or from an exact summary point of view in your world or my world, just relying on AI outputs, you're just going to create an echo chamber of
everything sounding the same. So like you say, having that personal input absolutely is still that USP of what humans can bring to it and is why AI, as excited as I am by it, being in an AI department is certainly for the foreseeable, always going to be a partner to help you do things for you rather than, you know, replacing entirely what we can do as people. Yeah, that's so exciting. I think one grey area for me as well is the like
learning element. So I'll just say a statement now and you can correct me and absolutely elaborate on it. I'll just go for it. So for me, GPT, am I under the impression that and is it the right impression to be under that every time I'm asking a question, is it learning kind of my skill set and my understanding in order to be more intuitive next time I ask a question, it's almost preempting what the answer is going to be based on my previous
conversations with it. Yeah, I think so. Certainly some of the more external tools are using that kind of feedback loop of you saying this isn't right as an answer or you're giving feedback to help retrain it to give that more personalised experience. But again, I don't think it's ever going to quite be perfect, right? It will always be always have slight levels of imperfection.
I think that it's quite interesting. We're in a state of the world where we're constantly recommended things and everything is so hyper -personalized that with AI coming in, it's almost doing the opposite and making everything quite generic, right? So from a marketing point of view, that's got to be a challenge for yourselves where you've, I'm sure hyper -personalization is something that is quite difficult for you guys to have
to... get through. And so I'm wondering whether or not that's still a challenge or if AI is helping or hindering that. Yeah, that's such a good question. I was actually speaking to a client the other day about that, about how we've spent so much time in this space of personalization, everything should be personalized. And then now we're going back to this place of just anything for a quick win, anything for a sweeping response, which
obviously AI helps with. But if I come back to kind of my almost passion, like soul's purpose when it comes to marketing is that it's almost as though we're in a position now where marketing is deemed as a luxury and it's, if you can afford it, great. But if you can't afford it, get rid. And I think it's a hard space to be in, in the sense of maybe you just need to refine what it is you're doing from a marketing perspective.
And if AI can help make that better, whether that is coming away from this personalization, but going more automated. If that's going to help you get better marketing results in the time that you've got and the resource you've got available, then it's just weighing up what's more important to you as a business, whether it's the personalization or getting things done quicker and within time and resource and infrastructure
that you've got. Because a lot of businesses don't have the luxury to invest in more time when it comes to marketing. And unfortunately, we're seeing roles being lost. marketing departments being reduced. But yeah, I think it's just, it comes down to the person, especially on the marketing perspective, what's important to the business. Is it getting marketing results in a time that works or is it personalization that takes longer, but you're not going to be getting this kind
of, this fixed flow of results through? Yeah, no, I absolutely appreciate that. And, you know, on that same scene with marketing almost being deemed as a luxury rather than a necessity for a lot of companies. Learning always falls into that bracket as well, right? It's one of the first things I've, in my experience, since joining the workforce, however many years ago, I don't really want to say on a public podcast, I'm joking, but learning also tends to take quite a cut,
right? Well, yeah, I think it's so interesting talking about the AI and the mechanics of AI and how it can help, I think. It's so interesting as well to learn about the different ways of using AI to help our like everyday lives. And I don't know about you, Rachel, but I'm currently solo parenting for five weeks whilst my partner's working away on a big job. So I've got an almost two year old and a very, very hard work dog. So I actually am using AI to help me do some
meal preps. I'm like going in there and I'm like, can you... prep me some meals that are going to be for one person, not going to leave wastage of food because it's really hard cooking for one. So I'm just using it in everyday life as well. So although I'm seeing the benefits of using it for my role in marketing, but also like just everyday life gets surviving. Like you can save me a weekly food shop plan and just do it for me within seconds. I'm loving that. Sorry,
say that again. Do you use AI on a personal level? Oh, yeah. I think I use AI more than I realize, to be honest. I try and be a good, sustainable person and not use it instead of a Google search, but I do definitely still use it, especially to help me craft things and help with inspiration. I'm quite a numbers person. I come from a maths background, a data background, so if I'm trying
to do a LinkedIn post or... If I'm trying to come up with something and create a LinkedIn post, which was, I think, the best example of that. If I'm trying to create a LinkedIn post, then I'll use it to help me structure it and to give feedback on whether or not this is useful or whether or not people will actually want to hear it. I definitely use it for that kind of point of view. I haven't used it for recipes. My husband's the one who does the cooking in
the household. And I'll suggest maybe he tries some AI recipes. We'll see what we can come up with. Yeah, definitely do it. And then for like exercise plans as well. If I want like a low calorie recipe, I'll say, can you swap this out and make it low -cal? So I'm having all these conversations with ChatGPT and I'm like, what's the world come to? I'm like, let me just ask
ChatGPT really quick. What I do, I do really like using, if I do a normal Google search, I do often just look at the Gemini summary that comes up rather than actually looking at the links. I wonder how Google's customers are enjoying people doing that and not getting the click throughs. But yeah, I definitely kind of do that a lot more often, I think, than using chat myself, because yeah, I try not to, unless I feel like I need an AI to really help me with something,
I do try not to overuse it, right? Yeah, no, I think that's that's exactly it. You could definitely overuse it and become so reliant on it. But I think that's so interesting what you just said there. Like, for example, if I'm asking ChatTPT for a list of recipes, I'm not visiting the moneymaker pages of different e -commerce websites having recipes on there in order to catch audiences' intent and get them to purchase what they're
selling. So that's so interesting, isn't it, to think that we're actually taking away the opportunity for businesses to grow. My mind's whirling now of like, I'm sure that the agencies out there or people who specialize in that, in ensuring that people still visit in third party websites and not just landing on ChatTPT and going nowhere else. But yeah, it's so interesting. I feel like, how do you find it working within
data? Because I feel as though when I was doing my research ahead of the podcast, it's such an underrepresented space to be in when it comes to women in data. Do you find that? Is that relative to your role? Oh yeah, 100%. I'm in the AICOE, which couldn't be more of a central place for data and AI, right? And within my team, I'm the only woman in leadership, which comes with its challenges, right? It's nice to have other women to talk to. You know, I don't speak to as many
in the day as I would like. So Rebecca, this is a nice treat for me on a Friday afternoon. privileged to be here and be that for woman for you. No, absolutely. And, you know, I've only been in this leadership position since officially since October last year. And I've definitely noticed that the way in which I communicate and the way in which I am performing within that,
that space. is changing and I don't know if that's because I'm developing more as a leader or if it's because I'm just becoming more used to being in an all male background or all male team. Whereas if you're a woman in data, you're kind of used to often being one of few women in the room. I'm pretty sure it's something like one in nine people within a room in data are female. And yeah, that comes with its challenges, right?
But I think that the most important thing that we can do as women in data is to pave the way for more women to have data careers and to join us on our journeys. I'm very conscious that being the only woman on my leadership team, and by the way, this is not something that any of my male peers or my bosses have made me feel directly. This is not direct feedback that I've received. But I certainly feel a level of responsibility that me performing well isn't just about me performing
well. If I perform well, I show that women can also perform well. I love that. Yeah. I feel like there's always that hidden pressure, isn't there, in a woman in a man's world, so to speak. And I don't mean that negatively. I just mean that in, like you say, one in nine. And we have that hidden almost like pressure, don't we, to
represent. And I think it is a... wrongly or rightly you feel like you ought to lead the way and shine the light for the the upcoming women behind you that it's okay you can do well and you do fit perfectly within this space that immediately when people think about data or tech we think of males and then I just think, well, it doesn't have to be the case because we've got Rachel out there flying the flag. Absolutely. Angie, Rebecca, you know, we're all flying this flag
together, right? We're fighting the same fight. I mean, I was quite impressed earlier when you said, did you say 62 % of marketing roles are filled with women? Like that must be, I would love for us to do like a Freaky Friday. and not just have a chat on a Friday, but actually do a Freaky Friday and be in each other's shoes for a day or two. I'd love to know what that feels like because I don't think I've ever had that in my career. Yeah, it's so interesting.
It's like you are. I find a lot of marketers that I speak to are women, but I think that's just naturally almost like an echo chamber of what is I'm looking for. But then when I was doing some more research into that, there's actually a stat that there's a difference between those within, generally speaking, 62 % of people within marketing roles are female. However, when it comes to the junior senior exec conversation, it actually changes to 69 % being in junior roles.
So actually, when it comes to the leadership teams, it's predominantly men. And that to me was just eye opening because I just think, wow, it's almost as if, for whatever reason, women kind of enter their careers, the full of passion, full of enthusiasm, sole focus on careers, and then we get distracted for one reason or another, just natural growth and progression on a personal
level. And then do we get to a point where we kind of settle or we don't push that kind of invisible ceiling further to get to those leadership roles? And so when I saw that stat on paper in front of me, I was like, it's so kind of relative to that's actually what's happening. But yeah, it's an interesting one that do we... not pushed that further to get to that leadership role.
And I mean, personally speaking, I've been in junior roles in marketing and being rooms surrounded by men and never felt like I could have a voice. I've been in leadership roles in marketing, and being in rooms where I've had a little bit more confidence because I'm on the same level of them, but still being in positions where I've been spoken over, or I've been told, Oh, I'll just
answer for Rebecca. And it's like, well, no, like, is that male female thing is that Is that evident of someone believing that because they're in a leadership role and male that they've got more say than a female? I don't know, but it's just the things you come across in your careers as a woman is completely different to what a male would come across. Absolutely. It's so challenging. And especially as you become more senior, you feel more obligated to try and call it out as
well, right? So you want to try and role model, but you also want to help other women progress. You also want to call things out whilst not being seen as disruptive. It's a bit of a storm, right, to try and navigate through. I mean, one of my favorite things I think that I experienced very early in my career was this is when I was working for a tech company. We had an external woman come in and do like a woman in tech conversation
with quite a few of us in the audience. And she'd worked with the likes of Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, you know, some ridiculously senior guys. Couldn't get more senior in tech, right? And my favorite thing that she said was, quite frankly, none of them impressed me all that much. So if you sit there and think that they weren't that impressive, then that really helps you realize that you are also an expert. You have that seat at the table that you deserve and they're just
a guy. You're just a person as well, right? And I brought that into a recent meeting I had. I had a meeting with someone very, very senior at Lloyds Banking Group and my boss was trying to kind of coach me and say, you know, this is senior person. We've got to make sure we do it right, but don't worry about it. And I was like, he's just a guy. And my boss is like, I mean, that's a great way of putting it. He is just a guy. He's a senior guy. So we want to do the
right thing. But, you know, I think that having that kind of perspective can really help. But when you're in the moment, right, when you're in the moment, when you're in the room and you're being and you're being spoken over or or whatever, that kind of feeling and that pre -thought can very Much leave is quite quickly, can't it? But as long as we keep reminding ourselves of that, that can hopefully help. 100%. We all put our pants on one leg at a time, don't we? Let's be
honest. Absolutely. We were all babies at one point. Yeah, 100%. And I think that's it. I think it's funny how I have a very similar approach when it comes to marketing. So I'll work with... B2B businesses and they'll say, oh, we don't want to be on TikTok. We don't want to go on Instagram or we don't, then our target audiences isn't there. I just think at the end of the day, we're all human. We're all scrolling at the end
of the day. And like when you was talking there about how they're just a guy, like I think it's almost like taking away the meaning of, okay, they've got senior leader in their title or they're running a business, but we're all still human. We're all still doing the same things every day. Like we all are just trying to survive out here.
Like, let's be honest. I think it is whenever you speak to anyone, as long as you speak to them with respect and understanding and you're just trying to articulate your point, then what can go wrong? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, we just had a question through, which is we live in a data age where we've had more data than we've ever had. How do we find the signal in the noise? I don't know how you interpretate that question, Rachel. Yeah, it's a very good
question. I think that we've got a lot of data, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's of quality, right? And I think that's an easy trap that we can fall into is we've got so much data that can help give us, be it marketing signals or something else, right? To put it into your perspective, Rebecca, but really it's the whether or not the quality is there is the important thing. And that really, I think, makes a huge difference, particularly in the applications that I'm doing
and creating general TBI products. People think that AI is going to fix data quality issues. People think that Data quality is just having enough rows in a data set, right? But it's not, it's about the ethics behind it. There's so much to data quality. I'm not sure if you've got some experience with this, Rebecca, within the marketing world, but I'd hedge my bets that you do, right? Yeah, 100%. And I think data quality is so interesting. So I, at one point in my career, worked in PR.
So we would work on press releases and we would literally just throw out a Google consumer survey and ask for data on a certain subject. And we put that into a press release and we'd send that out to the masses of the press world and everyone would want to validate the data. So how many people did you ask? What survey tool did you use? Did it go to the UK only? And there was so much validation behind even trying to get
that press release live within the media. And I just think now, especially from the marketing perspective, if you're ever working on a data set and you just, I don't know, said to ChatGPT, how do you determine this stat? Is that going to then stand up when you're having those conversations with the media, with the press, and they're questioning, where did that data come from? Can you find the
source? And I think that data quality is so important when it comes to marketing or selling a product, especially when it's almost like, I'm struggling to find the word, but so for example, with collision, if you're trying to say your stats behind collision and it's not reputable, it's not. sourced properly, it's not come from a decent quality, and then you're selling that product to the common consumer. There's this integrity there that's not followed
through. So I think data quality is so important when it comes to marketing and sales and consumer relationships and how you validate that. Again, I think this comes down to a learning opportunity for people within marketing. So you'll have junior marketers thinking, let's get our story out. Let's just ask ChatTPT for this stat or this
piece of data and see what comes out. But an actual experienced marketer with knowledge and understanding of the AI world, which we're all still learning, would never use that as a way to market. You'd validate it with your own data. You would most likely start within your own data bank. So rather than asking third party for data, have a look at what you've got in your toolkit already. Have you got seasonality data? Have you got feedback from the sales team of when
something boomed on the website? Are you looking at your own website analytics? Like the quality of the data should start at home. And if you can validate it because it's your own data, then you're going to have a stronger story to tell. But yeah, that is scary when it comes to the quality of the data. And I think in terms of finding the noise and finding the right noise, I think it all comes down to your purpose, your
why. From a marketing perspective, going back to that human element, if you're any kind of marketing material you put out there, it's all based on your purpose, your why, where did you start from, what you're trying to say. then your business should hold up in reputation if it's coming from the right place and the right integrity and not just because you're hoping to get a quick viral video out there or faking a stat just to get a click. Like, I'd hate to think that people
do that, I'm sure they do. But yeah, I just think it always comes back down to the why you're doing something and then the quality of the data should represent that rather than quick fixes. Yeah, absolutely. We have a very similar challenge where, where I work. So I work for Lawyers Banking Group, right? So we've got a lot of customer data. That's a lot of sensitive customer data.
So we have to make sure that the data we have is of high quality and is classified and governed and have all of these additional controls in place to make sure that we are operating in a really kind of safe and secure environment. absolutely data quality has to be at the forefront of what we do. Otherwise, it's that old analogy of if you put crap in, you'll get crap out, right? 100%. So yeah, I feel like that's been so interesting.
It's been eye -opening, definitely speaking to someone who's at the forefront of a tool that I use almost every day, or one of many future tools. But I think for me, for data and almost like... just as a final note in the marketing land of data would be that we need to invest in giving women who hold 62%, as we talked about throughout the podcast, of roles within marketing, just the space and the... the skill sets and the resource and the infrastructure in order
to spend time in that space. So rather than just churning out lights on content for the sake of it, like let's allow them space and learning to develop their marketing abilities through data and what's available to them. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. So I think my kind of final thoughts are we talked about data and AI a lot and for women in learning, something that I come across a lot is the imposter syndrome of getting
into a data career. And I would say that right now, everybody in a data career is having some level of imposter syndrome thanks to AI. So we're no longer at a disadvantage naturally for having that imposter syndrome. Everyone is feeling it. This is a great opportunity to re -skill, up
-skill and become an expert. There are so many things coming out there in the data and AI world that are new technologies that are really exciting and embracing them early and being at the forefront is going to be a very, very cool place to be. And I don't know when we'll have the next revolution. We're in the AI revolution now. Let's absolutely go for it. Yeah, 100%. Oh, thank you, Rachel.
I really enjoyed that. Absolutely, Rebecca. It's great to meet you and to really understand from a specific... marketing perspective exactly where all of these kind of issues and challenges are coming from. I sit in the center, I have a slight idea, but actually hearing it from you has been super eye -opening. So thank you so much for your time today. Well, thank you. As Rachel and Rebecca closed their conversation, they left us with a clear message. AI isn't the end of
human creativity. It's a new lens for it. The power of data and AI lies not in replacing people, but in amplifying what we do best. That's asking better questions, making smarter decisions and telling stories which connect. If you're rethinking how AI fits into your work, or how to use data without losing the human voice, we hope this episode will stay with you. Both of our guests have vast knowledge on this topic and left us
with lots to think about. We're always keen to hear the thoughts of our listeners, so please do let us know. A huge thank you to both Rebecca and Rachel for their time and you'll find all their details along with links to the subjects that they spoke about in the show notes. We're back in a couple of weeks and next time it's The Fun One. As always, thanks for listening and we'll see you again soon.