Mediumship, Mysteries, and Magic With Tim Shaw

Today on The Witching Hour, I am thrilled to welcome a true force in the paranormal world. He is a psychic medium. He is an ordained spiritualist minister. He's an author. He is an investigator, and a longtime friend. Timothy Shaw. Welcome, my dear friend, literally from haunted artifacts to energy healing, to Lily Dale, to the world's largest plunge yet of which we've been inside together. We could talk about that if we so desire. Yes, we have. Yes, we have.

I can never say that about anybody else except you. So how are you doing, Tam? I am thrilled to be here. I am just, I'm just relaxing. I, you know, it's so funny because it's like too many times I am like forever, like on the go. I am finally starting to slow down. Retirement is actually. Kicking in now. If I ever retired from the paranormal and the metaphysical, I don't know what I would do in my life. So that's kicking up, right. That start. You know what it's like.

I mean, we're at that time of year when it is starting to roll, starting to get busy. Oh my God. Yeah. And there's so many places to go. So many things to see, so many people to talk to and meet. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm, I'm ready. Ready too. I'm ready too.

So do you have any good, I mean, we'll talk about all the things. I could see you coming up. Any good plans for the summer or any good travel investigations or anything like that? I. Well, I have a, I have a idea for a book and it's gonna be called, uh, ghosts Along the Erie Canal from Albany to Buffalo, New York. It is really super rich, this whole area.

It, they used to call it the burned over district, uh, because of the zealots that would come and travel down the Erie Canal, and they would have tent revivals and they would get in the barns and go into, you know, speaking in the, uh, bars and, and taverns. And they were out looking to grab the souls of all these farmers and, and all these, these small town folks that, that lined the canal. But also, you know, we were a hotbed of religion.

So we had the Miller Wrights that ended up becoming ninth, uh, the seventh day. Adves. We have, we have all of the, of course, the, the Church of Latterday Saints, uh, by the, created by the prophet Joseph Smith. We have spiritualism, which is, you know, my home religion. And down in Hydesville, New York, you had the cap or you had the, uh, cottage there. So along with all of that. There are all sorts of hauntings and all sorts of legends and lore. So that's one thing I'm doing this year.

And the second project that I've already started is, uh, I'm just gonna call it tentatively Cemetery Tales, because I. As a lot of people know, I have become involved with a local buffalo, New York cemetery called Concordia Cemetery. I have some relatives that are actually buried there, and, uh, it was, uh, abandoned. Basically there's over seven thou, 17,000, uh, I will call them residents in the in, in the cemetery, and it was abandoned.

And a group of volunteers have taken it up, taken it upon themselves to refurb it to keep it going. I was able to go and speak there this year for one of their little events. I've talked about Victorian morning rituals and, uh, so we're, I'm gonna be, uh, working there and they have well, they actually have an OSC there that has a, a curse. A hex, uh, that is written in German, carved into the side of it. Uh, so that's one of the only things I've ever seen around that had something like that.

So I am traveling around looking at unusual, unusual, let's say unusual graves of, and one of my favorite places is to go to the Mount Hope Cemetery in Rochester, New York, not that far away from Buffalo. And, uh, I get the visit with, uh, Dr. Francis Tumblety, who was a snake oil salesman.

He used to, he used to be like he'd be like one, one, like, like literally minutes ahead of the police when they came to, they came to, but his note his whole claim to fame was that he was actually a. Suspect in the Jack the Ripper murders. So he's, he's there. Uh, so I get a chance to go and visit all these people. So I've been, I've probably got about 15, 16 different unique graves that I've been visiting.

And the one grave, one set of graves that I do want to go and visit is a place called the Children of the Allegheny, which is a little considerable ride from here, about six hours, but children disappeared. From their home. And a gentleman said that in a dream he saw where the children were and he took them there and dead. And, uh, we do feel that it was this gentleman who had this prophecy went and, uh, murdered. Wow. So, uh, there great. There's in the.

So I really want to go see that because that was a huge case back in the evening. So that's what, that's just a couple of the little things that I'm doing. You know, the little, little projects that just keep me busy. I. Hanging out with the dead. I love that. And I bet you the cemetery you're involved with and I think that's beautiful. 'cause we have a local, my favorite cemetery that I know anywhere, it's called Hollywood Forever Here, right? Mm-hmm. Part of Hollywood.

It's got from old movie stores to regular people. It's got a Jewish second Armenian section of this section. Of that section. But it had been abandoned too and just gone to right. And then several years ago, some people bought it and took it. It just, the spirits are really grateful for it. They've turned it into a place of life. They, we do movies on the lawn.

Yes, we have concerts in the Masonic Hall that's on the property, but to almost just like a rescue dog is gonna appreciate you more than, than some purebreds. I have a pure red I don't you notice that the spirits are appreciative. Yes they are. And you know, it, it's, it's unique because, uh, they actually asked me, they invited me to be on the board of directors of the, uh, foundation, which I'm not.

I'm, I'm, I'm think I'm, I'm gonna mull it over I up to the 21st in order to go and think about it. But also they go and they reclaim. Many of the stones that have been knocked over and, and covered over, uh, they've been reclaiming that, reclaiming them. They're re, they're repositioning them. And, uh, there are so many stories there in this little cemetery. It is amazing, uh, murder victims. All the children that are buried there.

Uh, we, a Medal of Honor winner from the Indian Wars is buried in there. There's so many, there's Civil War veterans. So many stories that I could probably write a book just on Concordia Cemetery itself. So, uh, I don't know. You know, it just keeps me busy. You know, Patti, you know how it is. You know, idle hands are the devil's workshop, you know? Exactly. So I don't, I don't, you know, I'm just, I'm like, you, you have to, you just have to keep going. You gotta keep looking.

Uh, and Paranormally I have to say, I have to tell you that the little cottage that's on the property, it used to be the caretaker's cottage it has. Some interesting vibes in there. Very interesting vibes. So I was invited to actually go and, uh, do a, uh, a daytime investigation. 'cause evenings in there, it's a very questionable area, but we can go in there and do it.

But I can tell you that psychically and mediumship wise there's a lot of stories that need to be told through contact somehow to contact. So, I can't wait. This is the fun stuff. This is the stuff, you know.

Listen, anybody can go and take a, take a meter and run through a building or whatever, but when you go into someplace with a goal and your goal is to give a voice to those who have no longer have that voice, that is when things get interesting and that's when things, you know, I believe that's what, people like us. We're put on the earth to do. Yeah. Yeah. Not just have a K two meter going. Ooh, it's up to red. Yeah. Well, you know, let Patti, we love that too.

But yeah, Patti, there's, listen, there's nothing, you know, as well as I do, there's nothing better than when everything, when there's no electricity in a building whatsoever and all, every, all the little pretty lights all shoot up, and you're like, Ooh, this is it. I know a confirmation, but Yeah. But I, I, it's interesting you're saying that the area you were talking about for your book, we can't wait for it. That there is psychically charged areas to me. What?

There always seems to be extra, I. Psychic or whatever paranormal activity and more religion of all different faves. Exactly. 'cause I have a, I'm in the middle of Hollywood also in a very active area by the hills. I think. I think it's these vor energy vortexes just right within a mile of me is like nine. There's theosophy self-realization Fellowship, Scientologist, the cre, a Catholic nunnery, a monastery, and it's, they all go hand in hand. It's that energy. Well, I think it is.

And the other thing that I found is I'm not too far away from the Niagara Falls. I'm about 45 minutes from Niagara Falls, Niagara River that rushes through there. It is an, I found that people who are very creative and artsy painters and writers, I. They gravitate towards it. The other thing that I've, I've also, I just finished an article on a, uh, uh, a location here in Lockport, New York, which is a, which was all part of the Great Erie Barge Canal, and I started looking into the geology.

I. Of like some of the buildings, you know where the stone came from and everything. And we find that it is Medina, it's called Medina Soap. Uh, sandstone. Medina. Sandstone is made up of high concentrations of quartz, and as we all know, quartz is probably one of the greatest conductors of not only electricity, but also. Paranormal and psychic energy. These buildings are amazing because they are just, you walk into 'em and you can feel the vibration of it.

And the place that I just wrote about the Western block in, in, uh, Lockport, New York. I've been there several times. I've done conducted classes there, I've done events there. It is literally a stone's throw away from the, from the Erie Canal. So it, there's so much history and there's so much there, but the psychic vibe in there is so, so strong, and that's what I look for.

Especially, you know what, you know, I mean, you and I have both done, the psychic walkthroughs for network TV or, different shows that we've been on and.

That's the thing that really attracts me to what we do it is when that first impression when you just go, oh, and you feel the energy just flow through you and it's like swirls around you and then all of a sudden you just take that breath and then all the images start to come in and they start to flow in and I get, well, I dunno about you, but I get plum of the mouth where it just starts. Yep, yep. Flowing out. I love that. And to me that's, that's what, that's the importance of it.

And again, we're giving, uh, some kind of a voice to the other side. And that's, since I was a little kid, down in, you know, when I used to go down to Lilydale and, and uh, we used to do, uh, uh, Lyceum, the Sunday school, he was pounded into our brains. We are to be of service to both sides, the living and the dead, both sides of the veil. And by what we do, by going down there and giving that vibrate, you know, that, that, that, that voice and you know, again, being, doing what we do.

Yeah, we can do the readings and all that stuff, but to me, this is what's so important. This is what our jobs really should be all about. And being able to go and. Just add a little bit more to the knowledge of whatever else is going on in that area. I agree wholeheartedly.

So I know, I mean, if you say that you were grow, you grew up in the spiritualist community too, and going to Lily Dale and learning, you know, table tipping in and school and things like that. Yeah. Um, so when did you, when did you realize that you had the special gift? Or was that just taught into you or that, that this mediumship ability, this would be a big part of your life and who you are. I had a dream back. Now, I was first introduced into the get into Lilydale around 1972.

That's when we first went down there to visit relatives and stuff. I would say probably a year before that, 71, 70, I was a little kid. I was still in grammar school and I had a dream of laying on a beach and a. The best way I can say it was is a glowing man going between all of us that were laying on this beach and every so often people would these, it was all Ben at the time.

They would get up and they would walk into the water and I remember of this big dark cliff behind me, and I remember him coming up to me saying. Just relax. It's painless. It's, it's painless. Don't worry about it. And I mean, I guess, I don't know, I'm trying to remember how old I was.

I was just like a little kid and I was, I know I was definitely in grammar school and, uh, I remember going into the water and I had a, I had some kind of a life jacket on, and I remember saying to him, hooked me to this. Whoever was next to me, he's a, he's my friend. And right at that point. I was in what seemed to be some kind of an enclosure and I was laying on top of some kind of machinery and I looked over and I saw some guy standing or laying like this.

And I remember, always remember he had a white hat on. He was like this over some kind of a pole or something, and they had these arms out and I remember the water, feeling the water coming up and then slowly engulfing me. And I, it was, it was so vivid. I mean, I can remember it to this day. And the unique thing that the crazy thing was, is I kind of just kind of woke up and, put it in the back of my brain as a kid.

You know, years later when the movie DOS Boat came out, I, I. Saw right where I was laying on this, I don't know, some kind of machinery, some kind something in the, in, in the control room or whatever they call the bridge. And I remember seeing what I saw thought was just a pole, was a pole, was actually the periscope and, and there was a officer with the white hat. His arms were like, you know, I remember his arms like this, and it was as if there was a lack of oxygen or something.

So, I do believe that that may have been a flash of reincarnation. 'cause again, at that time I wouldn't have known anything about, really about World, world War ii outside the, outside of the fact that it happened. But to be, to actually understand and see in my brain, uh, that clarity. That type of clarity was amazing and. I always remember at the very end, it was like, bang, I was outta there, I was back in the water, and then things just went black. It just faded the black.

So that was a, yeah. So that was, that was, I'd say probably my first, outside of like, as a little kid talking to the, to the person in the mirror. But, but I mean, that's. I think we all do that. Yeah, they all do that. And I talk to spirits, but nothing that dramatic. So that could have been a lot of things. Was that an angel? Was that an alien? Coming down and putting you on a thing and taking you back to a past life that could, Ooh, that could be. That was amazing.

And I always tried, I always tried to replicate it. I always tried to figure out, you know, try to get it back, try to get that dream back or try to ream it or whatever. I never could do it. I spent over 50 hours, not all at the same time in a, in a sadara isolation tank back in the eighties. And, uh, I, I, I had a lot of different experiences doing that, but I never could get to that clarity and the.

Interesting part was, I always tell you know, clients that if they have someone in visitation, I. In a dream, it is as if they were actually there. That's how you can tell the difference between a dream or in visitation. And this was as real as I have ever experienced in my entire life, and to this day, I'm not, listen, I'm not. I'll swim, but I am not like one of those guys that really wants to hang out in the water. I'll go up to the wa, I'll go up to the beach and I'll, I'll just hang out.

But I mean, I'm not, I'm not gonna go out there and, you know, swim any, any length of, uh, any distance might come get, you know, but hey, you never know. You never, but this was one of those things that, uh.

It sparked my interest in it and being able to have relatives down in the Dale and uh, being able to go to Lyceum for anybody who. Lyceum is the Spiritualist Sunday School. And the reason why they sent us there is because we used to get in too much trouble. We used to go and, you know, during the season, they call the season in, in, in Lilydale. You know, it's all, you know, really, they have a lot of stuff going on, activities and a lot of tourists come down there.

And, uh, as kids, I mean, we're riding our bikes into groups of tourists and watching 'em spread and run, you know, we were doing, you know, stuff like that. So they actually, that's one of the main, main reasons why we were. Enrolled. But, uh, that was unique. That was wonderful because of the fact that I, during the school year, I went to St. Andrew's, Roman Catholic School.

I went to a parochial school and the minute that ended, then I would go and we'd spend a lot of weekends down in Lilydale and I was able to go to, to a lot of the Lyceum there. And the Lyceum was amazing because they taught you so much where the, the parochial school taught you, oh, you know, there's healing and, and uh, saints can, you know, saints can communicate and do all this stuff, but it was never to the point of hands-on the way that.

They taught me and I had to, I always call 'em the old blue hairs. You know, the old, they were, they were the old bitties down there. But those were, those were the instructors. And the stories that they would tell you sometimes would, you would sit there and be like, enthralled. Uh, I remember we couldn't use Ouija boards because I was a member of the National Spiritual Association of Churches and why? You don't use tools. You don't use tools.

And the reason why you don't use tools is the fact that, uh, there's, I always classify it. As there's two ages of spiritualism, the spirit age of spiritualist, the golden age, and then the golden age of spiritualist fraud. So they didn't really want you to go and use anything that they could be, they could go and say, oh, well they're, he's cheating.

Or, you know, a lot of it, you know, especially, you know, 'cause it got a pretty big black eye because of so much of the fraud that went on there. And if and, and, and rightly so. But, uh. You know, we would still use, you know, we would still use a, a shot glass on a polished table for yes or no answers. And during seance you could use the spirit trumpet, which is a long a long spherical tin. It looks like one of those listening horns. Uh, you could use that, you could use slights.

With chalk in there so that, let's say a spirit would communicate through that. Uh, write something, write an answer, write a word things of that nature. You could use bells, you could use tambourines, that sort of stuff. But only during, uh, uh, seance. And as a kid we did children's seances, which were full-blown se basically full-blown seances. Except with the lights on. You know, they were, we were done and they, and they had several houses down there that were seance houses.

They had seance rooms in there where the windows were blocked out, and they had some of them, I remember one, had black like cloth on the walls and they had what they would consider a spirit cabinet were in the, and what they, you would use that you would sit in there and the medium would meditate and it would harness the energy. You could produce, uh, uh, transfiguration, which was the ectoplasmic mask over the face you know, discarded voices, that sort of thing.

And actually what it was, was a closet, but it had one of those farm doors on it. It was a half, like a half door. And I always remember that. And it was, some of the stuff was kind of crazy and, you know, you'd get table tipping. We, I always remember I just about pooped myself because a heavy. Heavy dining room table, probably two, 300 pounds worth of worth of wood bopped. It just bopped. I always remember that. And there's just no way that you could lean on it properly, like a card table.

You can lean on a little bit and you can get it to jump. But this thing just came up and I always remember just like sitting there going, oh my God, you know what just happened? Mm-hmm. So, uh, you know, and then we got a chance to learn about. Like the pioneers and, and all the different types of phenomena and all the, so I mean, it was a great education at that time. That's amazing.

And, and yes, I know we talked about it before in your show that you taught me table tipping 'cause it was advertised I was gonna tip tables. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know how to do this. And you taught me like that and it's amazing, the energy, the ectoplasm.

So I have a question. I don't know much about ectoplasm and, and all that kind of stuff. But is, would I, if people send me pictures of me in a seance, there'll be like 12 people or whatever. Clear face. Clear face. Clear face. My face is completely whited. A blurred out transfiguration. That's transf. Okay. Yeah, that's like. Yeah, it's almost transfiguration because the of a million, the true the true practice of transfiguration is to go and harness this energy.

And usually there, it's, it's a little ritual. It's kind of neat. Uh, you have a you have the medium in the middle and you have two batteries, two mediums on each side of you. And you can use like an enclosure and, and, but if, you know, a lot of mediums don't. But what it is is that. Everyone goes and concentrates their energy into these two mediums. You know, the batteries and they in turn are there for the medium who's going to practice transfiguration to draw upon that energy.

And when they draw upon that energy, their whole purpose is to go and bring forth a ectoplasmic mask. And the mask will be, of someone that's somebody in. The crowd or the sitting will know. And I mean, I've been there where, the Reverend Richard Schueller from, uh, New Jersey, he's amazing. Where he's, you know, he's, he's got a hairline like me, and all of a sudden there's a pompadour or a beehive and the nose will change and the facial features will change, or it just washes over them.

I've been in healing circles where the healer is. Bringing forth through them in trance, and I've seen their faces just go blank. Just sort of like, like this mask. It looks like, you know, the old Halloween masks that that you could kind of see through they're little translucent. It was. When that happens, that means that you are actually producing enough energy. Because Ectoplasmic uh, phenomena is a combination of your energy. Of course.

I mean, the old days a little bit different, but I believe now that the definition is, it's a combination of your energy and spirit energy, and it's colliding here in, in the physical and producing it. The other thing is, is I always look for pinkish, like a pinkish color because, I've been in situations where I was, we were actually doing something that we shouldn't be doing in a spiritualist church. Uh, we were supposed to be all studying for ordination.

We were supposed to, we were all supposed to be, you know, get together as a study group. But, oh, no let's go and let's have some fun. Let's, let's do this. We'd go up to the worship area and, uh, we would do a, a, a really heavy. Point it focused, guided meditation. And, uh, we ended up, I remember, uh, all of a sudden just feeling something like cobwebs or cotton candy just go over my face, over my body.

And I remember calling people over and I opened up my eyes and it was pinkish around me, a little pinkish. And I, I had like six people put their hands towards it and they actually felt it. They felt that, that feeling that was around me. And, uh, uh. It was an amazing thing, but it doesn't, you know, it's, it's hard to re, you know, reproduce it. I think I've only had that happen to me like three times in all the years I've done this.

And, but I always look now, I always look at people's photos and I look for certain things. And the pinkish, that pinkish like veil that goes over the medium's face to me. Looks to be probably in my, not being a scientist and not tearing apart everything because you know, your, your cameras and all that, but it does seem to be. Evidence of some kind of evidence of ectoplasmic, uh, phenomena.

many years ago. The former president of the National Spiritual Association of Church, it's actually married a Jesuit, a former Jesuit theologian. Uh, he taught up at Georgetown. And let me tell you, it was amazing because he said to me, he, I said to, I, you know, we talked afterwards and I asked him about, what about, all these saints and all this? And he goes, if you wanna know what true mediumship is, study the life of the saints. Oh, and he's a hundred percent true.

He's a hundred percent correct because we have a, uh, a monsignor here, Monsignor Nelson Baker, uh, the vicar to the poor. He, uh, is definitely, he was medium. He was a medium. He was definitely a holy man.

He was able to go and find, he needed gas during the, uh, during a certain period, buffalo got hit by the Spanish flu, and there were so many orphans that he created all these he created an orphanage and a trade school, and then he, later on he, he had a, a home for unwed mothers and, uh, it was amazing, but he needed to power it. And he believed in our Lady of Victory.

So he did a, him and, all the altar boys went out in this field and they went up and down, up and down until, what I feel was he felt a tug on his rosary and they stopped and he told the gas that he, they, you know, at that time everything was, was natural gas drill here. And he took a small icon of the, of our Lady of Victory, buried it next to it, said, don't disturb it, but dig here.

And they went down to where the, they usually find natural gas and he says, father Baker, there's nothing there. He goes, keep digging because our Lady of Victory will never, never let me down. The gas well is still pumping gas to this day. Wow. So it is an, it's an amazing thing. He, he's credited for by location. He's credited for healings while alive. He's credited after death for healings. His relics are credited for uh, for healings.

Also, when they exhumed his body, when, uh, the, the Vatican said, okay, let's go and let's really start researching him. They exhumed his body. They and because they thought he was such a holy man, they took his body bodily fluids, his blood and, and whatever, and preserved them in the coffin. So when they opened the coffin, they examined the blood and they found that, I believe it's the white cells were acting as if they were still in the body.

He's in a, he's in a sarcophagus now inside of the church, this big basilica, and so it only proves to me one thing that there is truth in all religions. It's just that man has gone and tweaked him a little bit. But if you start looking at it across the board. It really looks like it's all the same. And at that point, I realized that there is definitely, there's no, there's absolutely no separation. And that's why, and, and the big thing was, the big thing was, was the divinity of Jesus Christ.

That was a huge thing. But like the spiritualists believed that Buddha and Muhammad and Christ, they were all ascended teachers. They were all unbelievably holy men. So to me, I don't, I never had a problem. I never had a problem stepping from, being a Roman Catholic. Going back into going into my father's religion, which was spiritualism. So that is, that's how, I mean, it was so easy for me. And to this day, you know, I get a lot of people that go, I'm a, I'm a reformed Catholic.

I'm this, I'm that. I'm, I look at him, I say, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

You better do your research before and then come back and talk to me. Yeah, no, I agree wholeheartedly. I was raised opposite with. My grandfather was a famous atheist humanist, who studied religion philosopher from Turkey, and he taught religion, but he got, he kind of debunked everything but. I look at his writing now and he, he's just using academic and science words to still the same story. I think they are all the same. Yes. Everybody's got somebody hanging from a tree.

Everybody's got the one son. It's like, it's just a different template, like if we wanna put a different template on our thing. Agreed. Yes. We've tweaked it. And most of that was man trying to control people. You know, humans trying to control people. Exactly. Exactly. But the truth, that universal truth, I, I just picked the one that works best for you or the com i, I picked from all exactly. Just like you. It's like a little bit here, a little bit of hair, a little bit of that. I like Stew.

Well, you know, it's so funny because when it comes to the craft, I mean, I know some, you're very smart. I'm blessed knowing you, first of all. But, you know, when it comes to the craft, every I have, you know, I, I've had, I've had people. Uh, local pagans and you know, if I go to a, if I go to a festival or something, they ask, well, what's your, what's your tradition? And I look at 'em, I say, well, I said, I'm pretty eclectic. I said, I'm across the board on, on a lot of things.

And they go, well, that's a cop out. I said, what do you mean a cop out? He goes, you know, they'll go, well, you know, you should be X, Y, and z. I looked at, I said, well, in that case I'm definitely. A chaos magician. I, because it means the exact same thing, kiddo. Whatever works, works. I, I know I've heard that recently too, because I draw from everything right. Outside religions as well as I like some ceremonial magic. I like some chaos magic.

Mm-hmm. So, and I, I used to use eclectic a lot more. And then people get down on that now, like. What are we getting Judgmental now? I don't. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Humans. Well, you know, it's, it's so funny.

I knew, I knew Ray Buckland and uh, what a guy he was. He was just an amazing yeah, just an amazing person. My first book, everybody's first book. Talk about being blessed. Book The Big Blue Book of Magic. Yeah. Got it. On my shelf. Yep. He was an, he was just an amazing individual, but if you start looking at the way he did things, uh, he followed Gardner and he did this and that.

But then he started to develop his own, uh, style, which actually became, you know, the basis for a lot of the Wiccan traditions. But then towards the end of his life, he changed it to a northern a northern tradition. And he evolved it. He was, everything was evolving and he took from. All of the sacred texts and all of that. And he just brought it and he just streamlined it a little bit more. And then he just kind of changed it a little bit.

And I thought to myself, geez, you know, if Buck could do something like that and feel comfortable doing that, well, I mean, I could do that. And in my own personal belief system and. He'd be the first one to tell you. You, you follow who you want to follow, you follow what's ma, what works for you and I. The other thing was, is I always remember Lilydale used to be so strict, used to be so strict for the teaching and, and philosophies and all that. Buckland was welcomed.

Community welcomed Buckland classes. I mean, one of the best classes I ever took from Buckland was the, the solitary seance tools for the mediumship tools for the worker. And he taught in that class, he talked everything from, from boards to pendulum to Tara. I mean, he taught it all. And it's a great, if anybody ever wants to read a good comprehensive book on divination. That's the book to get solitary seance. And I always remember that.

And they welcomed him with open arms and they accepted him. And I thought, okay, times are changing. Do you times are changing? And at that point I said okay. That's I'm, I'm feeling a lot more comfortable in my own skin now. That's good. Yeah.

Because that's the one thing about, about spiritual pagan is like, it's not because we tell you. So you find your own truth here, and that's, to me, spirituality, whatever title you wanna put on top of it. So, um, It's true. I mean, let, let's face it. I mean, one of my best friends in the paranormal. World is Johnny's office nephew of the Warrens. I mean, you know, you know Johnny, Johnny is, Johnny is he's, to me, I hate to even, I hate to say this, but he's like a mentor to me.

I know he would kill me by saying that. 'cause he'd go, you're only, I'm only three months older than you. How can I be your mentor? You know? And uh, but I mean, I learned a lot from him, but I don't agree with everything. Right. But why can't I take what he taught me? Which is more, you know Ed Lorraine Warren's style, which was more demonology, more Christian based. Why can't I take that and apply it to what I'm doing on several different levels? And see if it works and see how it works.

And again, he's funny because he, he's, he's like, he's like this hidden font of knowledge. If you ever want to ask him about an esoteric question, he's got an answer for you. I've never, I have yet to ever stump him on a question. So he's another one. He's a lot like Bucklandg, except he's just he's just a little bit more, well, I'm just, this is, I, I'm carrying on, uh, Ed's legacy here, you know. Yeah, he is. He is an amazing one. Oh my gosh, that's beautiful.

So yeah, you've got a lot of books to write, my friend. That's all I can say be, because again, this is what the world needs. Think, feel open. I don't know, in this crazy times we're living in, we need some kind of a, a, create your own little guidebook, however that is, you know, if you find ones that you wanna follow that one I wanna follow. And if not, draw from all of 'em. Make stoop. Exactly. That's exactly it, but that's exactly it.

But then on the other, but on the flip side, I'm not looking for followers either. You know, I'm not looking for anybody. I'm not, you know, I, you know, I, you know, somebody likes what I, what I, what, you know, what I pontificate upon. That's fine. If they don't like it, that's fine too. You know, I'm not looking for, for people to do that. I'm just looking for people to find their own truth. I want them to go and, and get out there and experiment and, and learn.

And again, don't throw anything out. Keep everything, it may not make sense now, but I know personally, I know personally how things that I learned that I thought were nonsense years and years ago, even when I was a lot younger, I. Have all come back now and I understand. It's like, oh, okay. The square peg goes in the square hole now, you know, it works like it, you know, it's amazing. And, you know, it's, it's, the other thing is, is adventure.

What we do, people don't associate spirituality with adventure. And that's something that I, uh, uh, I am a firm believer in that. I am such a firm believer in that. You know, we do, I know there's a thing called, you know. Paranormal travel, you know, that sort of thing. New York State has the, uh, haunted history trail, which is a lot of fun. I love that.

It's a great, you know, our friend Brian Kano is, is part of that whole project, and they got all these different haunted locations you can visit. But just go out there and do a little bit of just do a search. Just do a search on Google and find things and go out there and experience 'em. And when we start talking about. Locations. I like to look for places that are spiritually significant.

Now, last year I did a a fundraiser for the, uh, Palmyra, New York Historical Society, Phelps General Store, which is an amazing place, a haunted, it's just amazing. However, Palmyra is the hometown of, uh, the prophet Joseph Smith. All my life I've wanted to go and I've wanted to walk in the sacred grove. So yours truly gets up in the morning real early, gets out there probably about 7, 7 30 in the morning, and I walk in the forest at this beautifully wooded forest land.

And I'm walking along this path and the energy that came up was so. Striking and beautiful and pure, and it just washed over me for the entire, this entire trail. Probably a good 20 minutes of walking just this trail. And I realized at that time it was not only like the energy coming out of the ground. But it was the energy of all these thousands or hundreds of thousands of pilgrims that have gone there because his home is there.

It was on his property, the sacred grove, where he actually saw Christ. He went and he, he communed with Christ and God, so he was able to do that. And all these people, it was the beautiful belief of all these. These followers and all these believers that have permeated this area. And it was just washed over me. And I'll, I'll, I'll never forget, there was a bench, so I'm walking, you know, do, do, do, do, do. I'm, I'm definitely not looking like a Mormon on a Sunday walking through there.

Believe me. I got a sweatshirt. I got, I got a hoodie on and, and shorts and my hiking shoes. And, uh, I'm walking and I, and I see this, this bench, and I sat down on the bench and. It was just, just like overwhelming. And finally a family came, was walking by and they looked at me and I said, said, I'm having a blessed day, guys. This is amazing. And they were like, yes, you get it. And then they continued on, and then finally when they, they were outta sight, I finally got up.

I finally could get myself off off the bench and I could move again, you know, but it was just so overwhelming. So, you know, if you're looking for something spiritual, look into like different religions and look into different things. It's like, again, Monsignor, uh, Monsignor Baker, our Lady of Victory. He has a library. There's a, a, a museum with his artifacts in it, which are just whether you're a believer or not. To see this historically is amazing. The feeling in there is amazing.

His sarcophagus is in there. It's just so beautiful and you get overwhelmed by it, and you, you just let yourself just feel it, and you just sit maybe in a, sit in a pew and just allow it to flow over you because the beauty of these places is just not the history, but. The what if and the what is, and it just flows. And that, that, that to me is great. It's just, it's just an unbelievable feeling. Yeah, me too. And we wanna feel, we don't wanna be the zombies.

Go to work, come home, do this, do that. So, yeah. Oh my God. Yeah.

Now that you've retired from your day job, I might have to come get you to teach at my school even once in a while. And I, just, it's a little zoom class. No big deal. But I won't, I have 20 teachers now, but all over, I have a, a guy in Italy teaching Italian Rega magic, a guy in Brazil teaching Brazilian magic. But I, I, the one thing I won't let people say university magic is that they can't say this is the truth. They can say, this is a truth, or this is my truth. Exactly. Exactly.

And, and from there it's like, so you can't even call us a cult, you know? It's like, damn, well, you know what? I, you know, I mean, I teach dowsing, right? I teach dowsing, and the one thing that I always tell people is, there's no one way. Yeah, there's no one way. Uh, there's a thousand different ways of doing it. I can tell you so many different ways. I can show you different tools, but you don't need tools. This is how we approach it. This is how I approach it.

How you approach it is your own. Decision how you wanna work with it, how do you do it, experience it. You have to be an experiencer and too many people aren't experiencing, and that's a problem I think with a lot of the paranormal out there because they're not experiencing, too many people are, their heads are down. Yes. Relied on. I remember we were doing a, uh.

We, we were doing an event on the USS Edson in Bay City, Michigan, and I was standing there and everybody's like, like taking a little break and everybody's down like this and they're all looking at their, their meters and stuff. I looked up and there was a figure, it was like a shadow person, the head and the shoulders, and it went straight down and it looked like it was overp pixelated. And I saw it. It looked like it was on roller skates 'cause it went like this.

It turned slowly and then went down this gangway. I jumped. I mean, I'm talking, I must have jumped about six feet, ran. I don't know how I got, I don't know how I got through a hatch because I mean they got knee knockers about that high. I missed that. I landed on my bad leg and I went, I knocked on my leg, went into one wall. I bounced off another wall. I saw it and it went down, right? It went down and, you know this term, and I went after it.

Later on they told me that one of the, uh, after it became a museum ship, it was in New York City and I believe that there was guy by the name Paul, I can't think of his last name. Loved the ship, lived on the ship, passed away. Right where I saw the guy. Okay. Right there. And later on, uh, Steve Shippy, uh, who's a great director and producer he, you probably see a lot of his work on Shock docs on, on I think Netflix.

He, uh, we were there filming and I was doing like a little seance and everything lit up. I'm talking everything. It was crazy. And I just thought, ah, it's gotta be a flop, you know, or a flip. It's gotta be something, in the area. And we finished it. I said, ah, you know, Steve, I'm so sorry that nothing happened, you know, really happened except for everything going on that suspect. Two of the volunteers were sitting behind me and they were like this, and I was like, what's wrong?

They felt an electric static charge. Go right through one into the other. He goes, we gotta film this. We gotta film this interview really quick. And it was funny because it's like, yeah, people look down, people are are too fixated upon. I. The mechanics and they're also fixated on looking for evidence, capturing the evidence.

And that's fine, that's fine because I mean, I'm using, you know, I'm using a Geer Geiger counter now, static meters and all this other var barometer all this stuff to try to go and try to find if there's some kind of correlation. But the problem is, is they no longer are looking for that personal experience. And to me, I. I would much rather I just saw something, I'm sorry, I just started laughing 'cause I got a shadow person that comes down in my workshop here.

Just, I think he just kind of went like that and looked back and just got a shadow. But, uh, to me it's because I'm talking about personal experiences to me, personal experiences. Trump anything out there and whether or not we can explain it doesn't matter. No. It's that personal experience that becomes intrinsic within us, and that is what we should be looking for more than anything else.

Yeah, the science is great and everything, but the intrinsic is the intrinsic experience is what we look for. And that to me, when we go to different locations, when we're finding places to go, sometimes. It's the personal experience that will always stick with you. Stick with you so much. A hundred percent. Yeah, I agree.

And to me, I like the technology to prove that that feeling that I'm having, like I'm seeing a spirit doing jumping jacks on the table or something, and now there's a guy in SLS in another room who can't see or hear me with a, a little green steer doing jumping jacks. I like the feeling, I like the technology to just confirm the feeling that I'm already having versus. The other way around. But you're right. I worked with my first Spirit Ho Horn recently, actually on a Ghost Adventures.

We went, we conjured Houdini. We were at the Winchester Mystery House with Harry Houdini's one remaining blood relative that's known, and he had Harry Houdini's spirit horn. When we set it up, it was, and talk about electricity. That's why you brought it up. Aaron on a Polaroid camera, old school Polaroid, captured all the electricity coming out of fingers coming in right into this one person. It would look like lightning strikes. It was amazing. I love it.

And you know, I mean, I remember the old seance, the old, what they called trumpet mediums you know, when I was much younger, probably I was a teenager at the time when I first saw it. And it's amazing to see. A trumpet and you let you know, you lay it. We used to just lay it flat. We never laid it, you never had it sticking up, although you can. But we used to lay it flat and to see it levitate and start to move a little bit, and then to start hearing through the small end.

'cause it's, it's like a funnel. You hear the voices, the muffled voices starting to come out. And one of my mentors, one of the people that taught, actually, she taught me table tipping. She used to have this piece of quartz in a, she made into a necklace, and what happened was she heard a whir inside her trumpet go, shoo, shoot. Shoot. And she heard a drop. And at the end of the seance, she looked into the trumpet and there was this piece of quartz in there.

Wow. And an airport like that is, is amazing. Now, once, only once in my entire life have I ever heard the wishing, that like a scraping inside the horn going shoot. So I got all excited going, yeah, it's happening. And I. At the end of the Senate, there was nothing in there. But it was thence, but it was the experience, you know, just to have that, to be able to go and, and know that it almost replicated what she experienced. So that, that to me is great.

Yeah. I'm gonna have to find me a trumpet somewhere. Anyway, I'm looking at time at, oh my gosh. I'm gonna have to have you back 'cause I wanna talk about any haunted objects, all sorts of things. So you just have to come back and visit me, will you? I'm surrounded by haunted objects. I know you are. I'm looking at 'em here. My dolls are watching. Everybody's watching. So tell if everybody is now as intrigued and in love with you as I am and anybody who knows you is.

Where can people find you, follow you? Anything you have coming up this summer? Or later, if anybody's looking for me, I'm on Facebook. That is, I call that the devil, but I'm addicted to Facebook, so I use that a lot. Uh, you can go to timothy t shaw.com, which is my website. I try to go and I try to keep it up. But being a one man band, sometimes I fall way, unfortunately, way behind, uh, Tuesday night's, eight o'clock for the most part. I do eat.

That's Eastern. Uh, I have the Black Cat Lounge, which is my vodka. That the lovely Patti Negri was just on. Yeah. And, uh, of course everybody, everybody loves Patti. You can go on there and, uh, uh, also you can watch past episodes on my. On my, uh, website, but I, in Ja in July, I'm gonna be at the Foresite Tavern in Cambria, New York. I'm gonna be teaching I'm gonna teaching Dowsing. Then in August, I'm actually gonna be there again and I'm gonna be teaching paranormal 1 0 1.

Ooh, this fall I'm gonna be at the Sage Conference in, uh, Middletown in, uh, Virginia, and I'm gonna be at Palmyra again, which I love to do. I think they're the most beautiful people in the world and I love going. We're gonna celebrate, I believe Sybil Phelps, who is the last of the Phelps that live in this, this house, uh, I believe it's her hundred 30th birthday. So we're gonna go and we're going to celebrate that. Uh, I am gonna be, I think in September I'm gonna be in Gettysburg.

I think I got a, uh, uh, I think I got a gig in Gettysburg. I, I have to look. And then of course, when we go into October, I don't know where I'll be. I'm gonna probably be up at the Western block in Lockport, New York, working up there a little bit, and, uh, gypsy in here and there and just, just trying to be as effervescent as the lovely Patti Negri. Come on. I'm working my way up to you, my friend. Anyway, follow him, check him out.

I follow you on Facebook, but I can't get on Facebook, but I post on Facebook. That's my cross to bear. Um, but thank you. My dearest, amazing friend. You guys. This is one of the sweetest, most. Educated, most magical, intuitive. She's talking about herself. Believe me, she's talking about herself. No, you, you. It's the mu Okay. It's the mutual admiration society. My friend. I'm the president. That's it. We're good. We're even, we're equal. Alright. Thank you.

Thank you for bringing your magic to the witching hour. Thank you, Patti. It's been an honor to be on and I'm just gonna tell you something. I'm just gonna tell you something. Okay. I've been a, I was a fan for years before I met you. And to know you is to even love you even more and respect you even more. So thank you so much for having me on tonight. I'm gonna blush. Thank you. You guys love him. Bye.