What makes a great pair of glasses? At Warby Parker, it's all the invisible extras, without the extra cost. Their designer quality frames start at $95, including prescription lenses, plus scratch resistant, smunter resistant, and anti-reflective coatings, and UV protection, and free adjustments for life. To find your next pair of glasses, sunglasses, or contact lenses or to find the Warby Parker store nearest to you, head over to WarbyParker.com. That's WarbyParker.com.
This is An Add by BetterHelp. What comes to mind when you hear the word gratitude? Maybe it's a daily practice, or maybe it feels hard to be grateful right now. Don't forget to give yourself some thanks by investing in your well-being. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world, connecting you to qualified professionals via phone, video, or message chat. Let the gratitude flow. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com.
Ryan Reynolds here from MidMobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing.
Hello and welcome to the Winston Marshall show with me, Winston Marshall. I sat down with the member of Parliament for Clackton and leader of Reform UK Nigel Farage. Nigel Farage, back from Mar-a-Lago where he was with Donald Trump for his presidential election victory. He also was with Elon Musk, which he tells me all about in this conversation. We discuss amongst many things. What a Trump win means for Britain. We look at
the state of Britain itself. Free speech here. To tear care. We talk about the horrendous killing in Southport. We have a look at immigration. What can be done there? What can be done about the culture in Britain? Is what Trump achieved an America replicable here in Great Britain? We look at reform party. We look at Islam in Britain and much more. I ask if you want to support the show, all you have to do is press like and subscribe. If you press like and subscribe, I can have more. For no more guests, like Nigel Farage.
Discussing the issues that you want to hear about and the mainstream media won't touch but without further ado, Nigel Farage. Nigel Farage, a pleasure to have you on the show. Welcome and thank you so much for taking time with your unbelievably busy schedule. Maybe busy days, dear boy. Busy days to have. Maybe. Maybe coming and talking to you is a chance to be a bit more reflective about the last week or two, which up until now I have not had the chance to.
I would like to talk about what is happening in our country. I am unbelievable state of the country and even this morning I hear more about people being locked up for streaming on TikTok. Before we come to that, you have been at Mara Largo. I want to know what it was like. It was amazing. There were two events took place on the night. There is the public event that you see which was when Trump came on the stage with the family.
Close advisors and gave the speech and a couple of thousand people in the crowd. For some reason the global pool camera fixed on me for two minutes to a blonde girl. I mean, I am not guilty, I promise. But the event before was the video shooting one. That was in Mara Largo. That was Trump, friends, family, donors, respected Mara Largo. Members, few guests. I think I was the only British person in the room.
Really? Wow. Is that where the photo of you and you were in a sort of throne next to the party? No, no, no, no. It wasn't taking that. Private event. There were no cameras, no press reporting. It was just a private watch party and that was amazing. I was very honest with you. Very honored. To be there, rice at the very heart of it as it was happening. Such a historic period. Extraordinary. I was very bullish. I've been in Pennsylvania that morning at 7 a.m. At the other rally.
That was a day before, but I stayed in Pennsylvania and I went for the opening of polls on the edge of Scranton. Yeah. Just to talk and to speak to loads of people coming out. I was so bullish. I was so bullish. Just people saying, you know, there are more Trump signs on law. Yes. He's not the bogeyman that he was. The rest of the room at Mara Largo to begin with was I would say cautious the optimistic. But as the warping and hollering began, you know, North Carolina.
All that sort of thing. And Trump just sat there chatting having an ice cream. Tried to relax. Really? I mean, talk about cool dude. Yeah. I mean, he's something else. It was an amazing event. I think in terms of election victories, I don't really think I can think of a bigger one in my life. He's won it. He's got the lot. The locks. Queen's sweet. He's got a Supreme Court House of Representatives.
He has had a Senate. He has a mayor mayoral majority, a state legislative majority. It's unbelievable. It's a raw flash. So yeah, to have been part of that there was amazing. And I don't know. The personal kindness. The personal kindness. He treats me as just extraordinary. He gave me a shout out the day before the rally. What have I got to do with it? But say no, listen, very honored to be there.
A serious piece of history. America now enters into a very exciting period. He's picks out at the moment. Everyone is shocked. He's picking loyalists. Really? Wow. Isn't that surprising? You know, because last time around, I mean, in 16, when he won, I was in Trump Tower a couple of days after that and banks and one or two others. And we were the first foreigners to meet him after the election. What was clear in 16 is they were stunned to win. They didn't think they were going to win.
And they weren't prepared for what was to come. They weren't prepared to govern. They didn't understand the apparatus of state. You know, these were sort of little ban and calean, calm way. Trump, these sort of the wild men from the hills in Washington terms, they came in. And he finished up with a lot of people around him who were never supporters. He has got power a patronage over at least 3000 positions. And they'd be working on this for over a year.
This is going to be very, very different. And he views loyalty as the most important thing. Now, someone say it's field, but it's loyalty. And by the way, I'm the same. I mean, I'd rather have someone work for me who's slightly less intelligent than somebody else. If they're trustworthy and true. And if a handshake and looking in the eyes good enough, you know, my word is my bond and that kind of thing.
So Trump is is clearly, you know, what you're seeing publicly are the big positions, the cabinet style positions that are being filled the, and the next few days, the ambassadorial, but there's an awful lot more people going into different departments who will be part of project Donald. So we're in for a, I mean, it's going to be almost like Argentina. Yeah. This is going to be a very, very exciting period.
Musk, of course, fascinating, the new Doge to farm. We could do one here. And so all of that was great. My reflections on the election are that there were two coalitions. One was an electoral coalition, growing Hispanic voters, growing black voters, even some imams. Well, he won the Muslim vote. He didn't win the Jewish vote, but he won majority of Muslims because he believes in family values and, and I mean, he made it, he made it, he made it, he made it himself with all of them.
But a remarkable. Not a bishop is too pushed too hard on that. But he don't want to betray his law. No, but he don't want to mean. But a coalition of voters that was put together where he was up in every sector. Young man, immoral, and remarkable. But the other coalition that I don't think has been given enough credit is whilst he was head and shoulders, of course, above every else in the campaign.
In the end, when you've very Republican, you saw the big guy, but you also saw on one side, Robert Kennedy Jr., representing a strain of thought that I must admit I've become more and more tempted by his times gone by on big farmer, on prescription drugs, some of which have been recommended to me that I've, please say that I've rejected.
I'm not anti-vaxxer, I'm just saying I do think the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the way that sort of over half the population are on prescription drugs really worries me. And then you got Musk coming in, you know, with the energy, the enterprise, the platform. And so I think voters saw, maybe Tolsie Gabbard was part of that picture as well.
And what you saw wasn't just Trump, what you saw was team Trump. Yeah, and that was clever. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I wondered looking at that, whether you might want to emulate that for reform. And it's because it's actually, you know, Trump, perhaps similarly to you, is he's very popular. But the more popular he is, the more unpopular he is. So you're one of the most popular politicians in Britain.
But just as you're more successful, you gain unpopularity on the other side. And his, who cares? Who cares? Well, I wonder if Trump could have won without that coalition of people. So I, so, well, look, you know, the point I'm making is the coalition was club. Yeah. And you were either agree with that. You know, reform. It's funny, you know, while I set the Brexit party up just to fight the 19, the 2019 European elections, all people saw was me.
But that didn't matter. It was a European election on a botched Brexit. And I was a crusader for a cause with people around me, but that all they saw was me. The one man that didn't matter for a crusading cause, it did not matter. You know, if I was the, I was the Billy Graham of the Eurosceptic. Whatever I was, it had now it matters hugely because as we go into the next election in 29 or if there's an actual crash before.
It's no good to just see me. You know, they have to see a team of people. And so building that team, projecting people forwards is a very important part of that. I think you'll see that zero use has become, although most of his work is behind the scenes, but I think when he does appear on question time or elsewhere, people can clearly see.
You know, here's a mid 30s, very, very bright switched on successful guy, Richard ties, who of course led the party through the years when, you know, it was an insurance policy. Let's be honest, that's what it was there for. Just in case the Tories make a total of it, they did. So lucky we had the policy. Out of it, Richard has grown in stature in a remarkable way over the course, you know, the last six, nine months. So I think we are, we're beginning to build a bit of a bigger team.
Yeah. Do I want it to be bigger still? You bet your life. I'm a working on that. Absolutely. Yeah. Can I ask you, I want to carry on talking about America a little bit. So did you spend time with Mars? Did you meet him? I did. And how is that interaction? I did. Because he's always talking about England, like on Rogan, he's treating constantly the free speech issues introduced to him by the big guy.
Who was astonished? I didn't know him. I thought, you don't know he looked. I did meet him. Interesting. I've met some of these big fellas in the past that have set up tech platforms and multi billionaires. And very often they're been old. They kind of have to be to do what they've done. Musk was remarkably normal.
Yeah. Re-market be normal, affable, personable, amusing, opinionated, but passionate. He's, and I asked him, why is it that you seem to have this extraordinary interest in our little group of islands? Yeah. On the other side, I did quite put it like that, but you know what I mean.
Yeah, it was, it was like there's an emotional attachment. That was his response. He didn't use the word emotional, but the words that he used were emotional in that he said, well, you know, you are the mother country of the entirety of the English speaking world. It really matters. Not what I expected. And the level of knowledge he had unbelievable on everything for, you know, farmers, what was proposing the budget, capital gains more broadly. South port. What really happened? Yeah.
And why have you got the blame Nigel? I mean, no, he's level of knowledge was incredible. And he's clearly got one of the quickest, quickest brains that's ever been built. You know, I mean, it's just he's amazing. He's on that. He's following everything. So they're really pleased to meet him. And I think those of us in the Western world that believe in nation state, that believe in democracy, that believe in control borders, that believe in protecting our cultures.
I think this man's emerged as a hero figure. Yeah, absolutely. I genuinely do. I wanted to get a sense of what else the others around there might be thinking about Britain out of course going into this election labor cent 100 campaigners. Trump called that out campaign against. Yeah. Not only that Afro and Secretary David Lamy. I've said that Nazi sympathizer KK sympathizer the rest of the cabinet said similar sort of ten year.
Any of you was to the calm. He goes on and on. No, Trump obviously knows about some of these things. Yeah. Is he going to punish us. Britain for the behavior of our current government. So Trump may well make like difficult in the short term. But he's powers of forgiveness. I'm much greater. He never forgets. Anything. But by the way, I've been friends with him for nine years. We haven't always agreed. He and I have had face to face disagreements on things.
But then that's what friends, you know, friends, that's what friends do. Friends that agree just the sake of agreeing. He doesn't forget but he does forgive. He forgave Ted Cruz for completely smashing the convention in Ohio back in in 2016. Ted got on the stage trying to hijack the whole thing. But the midterms, Trump was that campaigning for him. JD Vance was a never-trumper in 2016. He's at the vice president of America. So he doesn't the power to forgive.
And we have a huge advantage here because he is genuinely fond of this country. It's history, it's traditions, his late mother, the Western Isles, the Queen, who he just, I mean, adored. I mean, I think Trump is an aura of the Queen. I genuinely having spoken to him in private about it. He was an aura of the Queen. But you know, his big investments overseas are in Scotland. I think Turnbri is his proudest possession.
Is that his golf club? West of Scotland, golf club, our out from Glasgow, near Presswick. It's a great open championship golf course. It is now the number one golf course in Britain and Europe. The Trumps board it in 2014. He's changed and improved 14 of the holes. He is dissatisfied with it being the best golf course in Britain and Europe. He wants it number one in the world.
But he's immensely proud of that. So his connections to us are remarkable. This is the most pro-British American president in decades. And it gives us, with Brexit, a remarkable opportunity economically and everything else. We can be in a position to negotiate quickly with the new Trump regime and he's on our side. I'll come back to the economics I particularly specifically rather the tariffs because I think that's the big thing.
But immediately there's two very encouraging things that have come out of the new Trump regime. One is that JD Vance has said he doesn't think America should support NATO if Europe don't support the American value of free speech. Now I hope that this means that they support NATO and we have free speech that would be the outcome.
But also specifically the Chegoss Islands which you've been outspoken on. I believe that yesterday came out saying that the Trump administration are not happy that Britain would be giving up Chegoss because they have their base at Diego Garcia, the biggest island. And in Mauritius having the island they are friendly with China. It would basically one by one. The whole point of NATO in the late 1940s is he was in the lines of states that believed in liberty democracy, freedom and free speech.
Trump's big gripe has been of course they've not been paying for 2% membership fee. He's absolutely right. That of course is taken by those that choose to willfully misinterpret his words. Trump's going to leave NATO. We're going to be on our own. We get former foreign secritaries hysterics in the Guardian. No, Trump's committed to NATO. He just wants to see the members playing fairly by the rules.
In his first time as president European countries did up their spending. Not enough but they did up their spending. Chegoss, I mean this is extraordinary. And I said to Lamy six weeks ago, the foreign secretary in questions in the House of Commons, I said why on earth are you doing this deal? I said six weeks before or five weeks before it was an American presidential election when it may have changed to a different regime. And yesterday in the House the speaker called me for an urgent question.
I'm the prime minister's question that I talked about Chegoss. And the government lines to this the Americans support this because it gives us security. It gives us better security for the base because of a spurious ruling that has no legitimacy, no legal force that comes from the international court of justice, part of the United Nations.
And it's an advisory motion. But of course, Lamy is so keen to show that we've decolonized. That's why you think that's what I thought he was all about. Of course he is. No question about it. Now, Steve Bannon, I spoke to Steve Bannon last week on Warrim and Steve's a former US naval officer. And I sort of took this story to his audience. And he said Diego Garcia is the most important island in the world for America. Really? Yeah. Why could explain why?
Because it's the only place in the Indian Ocean where people can refuel, etc. It's got underwater facilities, it's got naval facilities, it's got flight facilities. Without it, the Gulf War, forget it. Without it, the Iraq War, forget it. Without it, I've got to stand forget it. Okay. And whatever the merits of demarrants and all those military encounters, the fact is it was there. All America has in the east is that and Guam.
But actually, Diego Garcia is key to the whole thing. So can Trump end that deal? Well, legally, no. You know, it's up to us. And if a British government signs a treaty and the king gives it a send or parliament passes it in the form of a bill, there were two ways of doing it or hybrid.
And legally, Trump can't be so it, but actually, yes, he can. And labor yesterday in response to me was still sticking to this line. And as I said, really, I said the incoming national security advisor, Mike Wolts, rebelled in 2022 on this when the right honorable James cleverly cleverly from brain tree. I mean, talk about.
Yeah, you made your own minds up. He started the negotiations on a sovereignty of a Cheygos Islands. And now they stand up and say, isn't it terrible? They're not credible on anything these people. He has said, Wolts, that giving up sovereignty over Cheygos is a kin to the Biden withdrawal from Kabul.
His position is clear. The new defense secretary, Pete Hegsgith, Scott Fox News presenter, friend of mine, his position is that it was same. We know what Trump thinks. This whole sovereignty surrender is unnecessary. There is no force of law behind it. Mauritius has no legitimate legal or historical claim to Cheygos that jigossians don't want it. Yeah, they've been protesting here.
They don't want it because when they were forced out by labor government, did you get the guilt? You know, it's coming back here. They went to Mauritius. They were treated with huge racism. They came to Britain. They want to go back to the neighboring islands under British rule. I think that Lamy has engaged in a form of student politics that will blow up in his face.
Let me ask about tariffs then. Trump's favorite word is tariffs. He said to Joe Rogan, that might be good or bad for America. That's not a conversation I necessarily want to have here. But if tariffs are put up on British goods, that is not good for us. However, he does love us. So maybe he'll treat us different from our European counterparts, but he's not so necessarily happy about the labor government. Look, look, labor must make his mind up.
Does it want to align real line with the EU and everything? Or does it want to use our independent status to do what we can? And I put that in a neutral way. We can avoid tariffs completely. In fact, we can move on to a genuine free trade deal with the Americans negotiated sector by sector.
America is our biggest trading partner, national trading partner in the world. Far bigger than France, Germany, Italy. Yes, the EU was a whole is bigger, but remember this 20 years ago, the gross domestic product of America and the EU was the same. Then I twice us. Can you believe it? I have a difference over the next coming year to be star.
This is why I call Brexit the Great Escape. We're getting out of sclerosis, debt financed, low growth models, trouble is since independence, we've pursued the same policy. But we can always change them. So no, there's no need for us to be caught with this tariff regime. This can all be negotiated. I was horrified. Earlier this week to hear that Rachel Reeves was considering retaliatory tariffs. I mean, no.
Oh my goodness. No. And it's rolled out the red carpet also. And I know this, you know, going back years with with trans close advisors, they're not against free trade.
They're against unfair trade. They're against massive undercutting on wages. They're immense massive undercutting on regulation. You know, they just want free trade to be between two countries at roughly even levels. And thereby actually making both more competitive, making both more efficient, making both look for new solutions to R&D and everything else.
So there's no need for us to be caught by this. But the prime minister has to see this and by worry with Kirsta more I got several, but on this particular point is he thinks like a bureaucrat. He doesn't think like an entrepreneur. And I'm not surprised. I'd be surprised if anybody on the front benches today thinks like an entrepreneur.
An entrepreneur looks for ways through an entrepreneur sees no obstacles because they're always way round them or through them or under them or over them or whatever it is. I tend to think that old fashioned socialist think in very, very narrow tram lines. Yeah. And you know, what we've got is a government that is much more socialistic. I think that we would have believed on the giant fifth when the results all came through. Certainly the Reeves budget seemed to be ideological.
In many ways. So we have these great divides now within the country, the divide between the public sector or the private sector. Just one on the task thing, just so understood. Where does your confidence come from that we can get these free trade deals? I know it. End of. Okay. So I have a cup of tea. So then sorry, back to the divide. Yeah. Yeah, the massive divide now is in public sector and private sector. It is if since labor got in during the public sector, great. 15% pay rises. Lovely job.
We're in the private sector. We're going to give you a good kicking. And even the presentation and the budget of a penny off a pint, which I did say in the House of Commons was saving me a pound a week. They're sadly most labor and peace won't quit with it. I was saying. Or by 500 get one free.
Actually, the price of a pint of beer will go up between five and ten pence of pint as a result of the budget because of increased minimum wage because of national insurance, etc. And you know, the budget basically, you know, it is small employers that are paying the cost of the budget. That's what it really comes down to. There was little comprehension of that. I see a massive divide between the two. Especially when it comes to pension.
You know, your private sector individual, particularly self-employed, sole trader, small business director, they increasingly are not putting money into private pension as they can't afford to. What is your public, you know, the chap in Whitehall, camp, doing his four-day week if you're lucky. It's a massive divide in this company. So there's one thing I want to pick up on is sort of the culture of Britain compared to America.
I was in the States as well for the election and it was so different from 2016. Were we? For the election itself, I was in New York, but I was in the preceding two weeks. I was in California, Texas, my Florida, all over. But what was really different was that the zeitgeist had changed. Because even when he won in 2016, it was not okay to even discuss Trump. This time in New York City in Manhattan, I saw young people wearing mega hats.
Yes, a pal of mine, great pal of mine, drinking friend really. But great pal of mine said he walked through Central Park on, you know, a few days off the election on the Saturday, wearing a mega hat. And he was amazed, young bloats coming up, doing fist bumps, you know, things have changed. That's what I got in Pennsylvania that morning. There were more signs on the lawns than the were before. There is a big change. But things have bleak here, right?
So in comparison, you feel the heaviness as soon as you return back to Britain. Now, I know that Starm only had 20% of the electorate for his victory. But 67% of young brits are sympathetic to socialism. Socialism is the most evil ideology Europe's ever come up with 140, 150 million killed. Yeah. The entrepreneurs of Britain are leaving 9,500 millionaires, according to one report. Oh, that was last year. That was 2023. Right. This year could be even bigger. Could be even bigger.
So it seems that there's going to be a total brain drain. And I don't quite know how to turn the ship around well, a brain drain started by the conservatives. Yeah. Who started the narrative on taxing unernding come? Jeremy Hunt, not Labour. What he meant by the way was risk capital. Even the conservatives have no respect for risk capital. And they can stand up at the at the dispatch box in opposition and now pretend that they believe in entrepreneurship.
Now pretend they believe in all this stuff. Who is going to believe them? I don't. After 14 years of failure. I... I think. Need a holiday gift that will keep her sparkling all year long? Blue Nile, the original online jeweler, has experts on hand 24-7 who can help you find the perfect piece. Beyond that, Blue Nile makes the gifting experience easier than ever, with guaranteed free shipping and returns as well as a wide assortment of jewelry of the highest quality.
At the best price, right now get 30% off jewelry at bluenile.com. That's bluenile.com for 30% off bluenile.com. This is an ad by BetterHelp. What comes to mind when you hear the word gratitude? Maybe it's a daily practice or maybe it feels hard to be grateful right now? Don't forget to give yourself some thanks by investing in your well-being. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world, connecting you to qualified professionals via phone, video or message chat.
Let the gratitude flow. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com. That there is... A possibility. Not yet a probability I'll grant you. But I think there's a possibility of a political revolution sweeping through this country in my next few years. I think this general election was the absolute nadeer for the first past-the-post system for representative politics. I mean, you want to see it in Parliament. I mean, it's...
It's a 90% remainder Parliament. It's the most out-of-touch Parliament you've ever seen. I think by 29 there is a real possibility. This can completely invert and change the other way. And I've been involved in this game for 30 more than 30 years. I must be bonkers. To come out of a semi-retirement where life was good to do this again. I must be in my bumps, Phil. But I did it because I believed there was...
If there was one of those 50-hundred-year moments, when something phenomenal can happen, and things can just change in ways that you could never foresee, I think it's now in the next few years. I think the level of distrust in both parties, the level of distrust in the top of individuals in those parties, is that the most remarkable level? Now, I believe right now that reform is the vehicle that will do that. I may be right. Something else may come along. I don't know.
Somebody better than me may come along. Somebody better... Somebody better and younger looking than me may come along. I don't know what. If he or she does, I say fine. But I'm not a complete, you know, narcissistic ego lunatic. But what I have been over 30 years is a very good agent for change. You know, I'm good at injecting into the public debate, debates and arguments that maybe previously had not been thought about very much.
And over time, I'm arguing logically and gathering support, changing public opinion. And I think we're at one of those moments. So I'm not... I don't feel that bleak at the moment. I think actually what Trump has done and what he'll show over the next four years will be a remarkable example to the rest of the English-speaking world. I believe last week was a pivot point in all of this. So I'm actually pretty bullish.
So your bullishness comes from Trump's victory, or did you feel that way before the... I felt it before. I felt it before. But Trump's victory puts it on steroids. Yeah. So his vice presidential... Pick JD Vance, vice president elect. Speaking of changing the zeitgeist on an issue, immigration was a huge issue in the States. Now Vance said there were 25 million illegal immigrants in the States. My research is about 21 million, but it definitely changed.
And immigration is the biggest issue in Europe and in Britain and could possibly be... I mean, it was the second biggest... It was the second biggest issue. Reason why people voted, after sovereignty. Am I wrong about that? Well, no, you're right. That's called to the Lord Ashcroft... Yeah, you're right, but you're wrong. Because a lot of those that voted on the immigration issue otherwise would not have voted.
And we only won the referendum by getting people to vote who normally would not have voted in something like that. You know, a turnout that surprised everybody. You know, so I think immigration is what won the referendum. So JD Vance had said... Well, maybe I should put a different way. I've heard you say that we can't deport from Britain because there's no political will. When I hear JD Vance, he says it's not political will, it's practicality for them.
How on earth could they possibly deport 21 to 25 million people? Well, I get that point. Of course, there's practicality with everything in politics and in life. But what would I do with those crossing the English channels today? They go, deport immediately. Can you deport everybody that's coming in the last 25 years illegally? Well, yeah. Then you reach the ground with practicality obviously. So then my question would be...
There are, according to at least one report, 1.2 million illegal people in Britain, illegal migrants. Would you give them amnesty? No. So what would you do? Never, ever give amnesty. I was astonished when Boris Johnson was mayor of London because he was even considering this option. Give them amnesty, let them all work. Well, what do we know? We know that the rapidly rising population makes us poorer. Pora!
Six of the last eight quarters, GDP per capita has gone down, which coincides with record levels of legal, let alone illegal immigration into Britain. You never give amnesty. You absolutely can't do that. All you do is encourage many, many more to come. Do we need to deport people who come here illegally? Yes. How far do we go? Back. These are all questions that need a huge level of thought. It's not easy. It's not easy. What is easy is they will continue to cross the channel.
They will continue to come in the back of lures or cars or caravans or whatever it is until we deport anyone that comes by that route. So what of this 1.2 million say? Is the idea that they're not given amnesty and they decide eventually to leave on their own volition? You cannot give them amnesty. You cannot give them amnesty. To do that is an insult to those who want to come legally and pay their money and get past sports and so on. So we don't do anything about it.
I didn't suggest that for a moment. You cannot give them an amnesty. And yes, we must be deporting people to come illegally. Especially those who are community crimes or who refuse point-back refuse to integrate in our communities. Not an easy job. Long term job will take a long time. How do we know whether they're point-blank refusing to integrate? What would that look like? Well, if you've been here 10 years and can't speak a word of English, you might not have tried very hard.
So if someone says it's an example, it's an example. But that's quite a drastic policy. If someone's been here 10 years and they can't speak English, off you go. If you've been here 10 years and can't speak a word of English, it would suggest you've not tried to integrate. Okay. Isn't that fairly straightforward? Yeah, but that would be... That seems like quite a tough... Well, and you understand this very... And you could say if you haven't tried to get a job.
Look, this can go all sorts of ways. My priority is not to go back 5, 10, 20 years. I just... we're back to Vance and practicality. All right. We want people who come legally. We want people who integrate. We want people to become part of our culture. But you have to stop the flow of both legal immigration on the scale and illegal immigration on the scale. Without deporting people, you won't stop it. One of the big divisions I've seen in Britain is...
It's really... it's kind of... come up on the issue of Islam. And you've clearly stated beforehand that you think the majority of British Muslims see the extremist Islamists and are as concerned as the rest of... No, they're more concerned than us. They're more concerned. Of course, because it's more likely to affect their lives.
Okay, so I... I mean, if you're a Muslim family and the news is all about radical Islamist committing heinous acts, you're going to think, wow, my name is Mayweb prejudice against me because I'm Muslim. Yeah. So I think there are even more concerned than we are. Okay, so although I see that there are plenty of British... noble British Muslims, zero use of being a great example of one. Yeah. I've had on the show Ed Hussain, who I think is another's, I could name others.
There's certainly some great British Muslims that give me great hope. Geopolitically, if you look at the behaviour of the Emirates and everyone involved in the Abraham courts, I'm given great hope by Muslim majority countries.
But I'm not totally convinced by the idea that the majority of British Muslims feel this way, and I particularly struck by the Henry Jackson, if I may, Jackson Polling from earlier this year, that said that three-quarters of British Muslims didn't believe her mass had committed murder or rape on October 7th. More than half of them think that Jews have too much power or rather almost half of them think Jews have too much power in Britain.
British Muslims have more likely to have a positive than a negative view of her mass. It seems to me that it's not the majority. The figures that I took from that are mattered, and I used on Traffithilitz's programme on Sky News that caused such constellation, were that 23% of 18 and 24 of young Muslim men thought Gehav was acceptable. Now, so there's nuance to these arguments, and this is where it's so difficult to have any sane national debate about anything.
The nuanced argument is that there is a growing number of young Muslim males who loath who we are, loath, but the vast majority live peacefully, even if their sympathies may lie in a slightly different direction, and we all have sympathies in terms of our own tribe, our own family, when at times it may not be rational. Am I concerned about how much stuff I've caused? But the number of it is, we have a Muslim population in Britain growing by about 75% every 10 years. That's just where we are.
If we politically alienate the whole of Islam, we will lose. We'll lose. So how do we want to include it? We will lose by 2050. Goodness knows what kind of a terrible state we're going to be in. And Zia Yisif, who you mentioned earlier, and there are many others, is a good example of somebody who is a Muslim by birth and by upbringing, but feels very British and is very grateful to this country for the opportunities his parents were legally given to go on to him.
We have to try everything we can to bring the majority with us. They will have private observance. They will have slightly different ways of how they live their lives, perhaps to you and me, but they will be part of the club overall. That is what we have to strive for. Whilst simultaneously, as all the Arab states that signed the Abraham Accords did, crack down hard on radicalist religion. It's a nuanced argument. And it's good to come on a podcast as we can make a nuanced argument.
You can't do that with the Times-Dews paper. Because the other farourist things, all Muslims are great, or farourist things are all bad. There are nuances in all of these things. So how does reformer, maybe there's a question for Zia Yisif, but I'll ask you how does reform intent to appeal to those British Muslims? Well, I think we started to do it. And I think it's remarkable how Trump did with that vote. It's about values.
When I came back in the politics, on June 3rd this year, which I hadn't expected to do until 48. That was before that. It was a really emotional twist. I've got to do something. I said the party will be about family community in country. We are a values-based political party. That is who we are. These are the things we believe in. And I think the vast majority of the Muslim community, certainly believe in the first two. And we have to encourage them to believe in the third as well.
Back to the state of the country. It seems to me. What a state. Yeah, I don't remember it. I remember it every other way. It's bad. And there's so many issues that we could pick up on. I just know that we haven't got that much time. Free speech. I learned this morning of Cameron Bell, a 23-year-old, has been given nine months for live streaming. The aftermath of an event at the August, an incident at the August riots.
They're emptying the prisons of criminal, violent criminals, and putting in quite literally, if you think about it, who's a connolly, who's been sentenced to and a half years for a tweet, will be a not very nice tweet, but a tweet not a violent crime. There's this chap in Wales who's been, who's doing three months for a Facebook post. Practically speaking, how do we save free speech in Britain? It seems to me that the only guard we have is Article 10 of the Human Rights 1998 Human Rights Act.
The online safety bill came in last year that made things worse off, common going to have more powers. If you fall into the trap of believing that the European Convention of Human Rights being corporate into UK law is our savior, you're barking at us. I'm not saying it is, but it's the only protection I see. I can work out that we have. I think the adoption of human rights as a legal concept, as actually allowed governments to behave as badly as they have.
I remember after the, you know, one of the big European treaties, when I was in Brussels, a big vote in the European Parliament, you know, on this new convention on human rights. And the first 53 articles said, you can free to have a baby and free to breathe and whatever. It was in Marvon, it was a thank you, you know, wonderful. And sort of number 54 said, in an emergency, we can take all this away.
And so the problem with, the problem with state-given or multi-state globalist-given rights is the relationship is that I'm the master, you're the servant, and you think you're a servant. Glad you're lucky. I'm letting you breathe. You think, you know, you should, you should, you, thank big brother.
Whereas our system that, that, that, that evolved through civil wars and coos that happened like Magnacart's or whatever it may be, but our basic premise has always been you are born free to do as you wish, unless the state prohibits you from doing something as opposed to the other way around. So, am I worried about this hugely? I thought it was really extraordinary, on the very morning of Remembrance Sunday.
When we commemorate, you know, nearly one and a half million British and Commonwealth citizens who died that alone those who were blinded, wounded, lost limbs in two wars. But on that very morning, you know, Alison Pearson respected, very respectable as well. Telegraph journalist, podcast commentator, you know, Plod Zombadour at 9.40am, saying you're in trouble. You're in trouble. Non-crime hate incidents being reported, it could even be criminal. What did I do? We can't tell you.
Who's the accuser? No, they're the victim. And off they go. I mean, if that's not intimidation, if that's not intimidation, against, you know, a public figure that speaks out, I don't know what is. On Southport, all I can say to you right now is I know a hell of a lot more than the British public. No, I hell of a lot more. $19 per month, new customers on first three month plan only, taxes in fees extra, speeds lower, above 40 gigabyte C.T.
Tail. Need a holiday gift that will keep her sparkling all year long? Blue Nile, the original online jeweler, has experts on hand 24-7 who can help you find the perfect piece. Beyond that, Blue Nile makes the gifting experience easier than ever, with guaranteed free shipping and returns, as well as a wide assortment of jewelry of the highest quality, at the best price. Right now, get 30% off jewelry bluenile.com. That's bluenile.com for 30% off, bluenile.com. I've been completely silenced.
I dared, the day after Southport to do a video to say, can we please know who this man is? Was he known to the authorities? Why do I feel we're not being told the truth? The level of demonization I came under for that from both front benches was astonishing, from media commentators. Demonization on a level that I'd never even experienced. Now I'm told by the speaker of the House of Commons, I can't ask questions about it in the House of Commons. Parliamentary privilege is out of the window.
Even rumours today that the court case, which is due in January, every effort is being made to defer it. Right? Yeah, this is what's going on. We are witnessing one of the biggest cover-ups we've ever seen in our lives. And I won't say any more than that. I genuinely would never wish to be in contempt of court. I have respect for our legal system. It's not perfect. It's a damn sight better than most of the rest of the world.
But as the, you know, as the Jonathan Hall K.C. and Law Carlyle I. One, the terrorism is the other, a seasoned professional, international respecter of how terrorism laws work and have a legal process worse. Both of them agree with me. The public should be told the truth about the individual. That does not prejudice the case that is about to come up. And much of the writing that happened in South Port-East where was with an absence of people being told the truth.
So I won't go any further than that. Of course. Other than to say, I will be proved right. This watch. Yeah. This. I mean, already the new charge is the latest charge is the rice in and that he had, Al Qaeda material in his home. A non-terrorist incident you understand. They're still telling us that. A non-terrorist incident. Do you believe them? I guess we'll have to wait and see on that. They are the wise ones. They're the wise ones. So give them where we are.
Yeah. Americans watching won't understand that. But there's a subjudice law which means you can't speak about it, which is why you're being careful. Well, it's why Americans are really looking at us and saying, my car box going on in your country. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their first amendment, a very fundamental thing, a very important thing. Our rights are free speech, something we'd always take and be granted. And suddenly it feels like they're under assault.
Yeah. And I think Starmer's instincts on all of this are deeply authoritarian. But you know, you can only keep the can't so far down the road. Yeah. When the truth comes out about this, his, his, I believe, his reputations prime minister, which I could add, a dent of enormous proportions. Mm-hmm. Well, he has got that reputation of being too tear-care.
What angers me, and I think a lot of the British public, is that he had made no hesitation whatsoever within days, almost immediately, after the riots of saying that it was far-right, Fuggery. And now he's been unbelievably painstakingly careful, not to prejudice court. Now, when he said it was far-right, Fuggery, that was before any convictions were made. So I would say, isn't that contempt of court? Yeah. As far as I... Well, no, no, no, no, no. That was the opinion, but look.
You know, this, this, this, this labeling of everybody as far-right doesn't work anymore. Doesn't work anymore. It's hollow. Mm-hmm. It's hollow. But we saw all of his instincts. And his regime of fear has worked. It has shut people up. Mm-hmm. People are really scared. People that I've spoken to, in and around Southport, relatives of those who have been involved in some way, are all too scared to speak in public. Yeah. So he was effective.
Yeah. His reign of terror, as it were, was effective, but it won't last forever. Yeah. Can, do you... He says there's no such thing as two-tier policing. Even Priti Patel says there's no such thing as two-tier policing. Is he wrong? Well, two-tier. I mean, what has happened to the Manchester attackers? Back in July before Southport, we get violent, robbery in Manchester Airport, police have violently attacked. A police woman has a nose broken. The police then regain control of the situation.
All you see is a video of a police officer stamping on somebody, but of course he was stamping on him. He had a gun in his hand. If you've got a gun in your hand, you do not engage in a salam with the other arm in case you lose the gun. You use your feet, or your knees, or whatever other means. Because it looked awful. Because Manchester police didn't release the rest of it. So was that Manchester police were against their own officers?
But because the assailants, you know, have a certain skin color and a certain religion, we are now in the middle of November, and the CPS have laid no charges. Compare that to what you mentioned a moment ago, about the immediacy of the arrest and sentencing after Southport. If that's not too tear-pleasing, I doubt and too tear justice, and the too tear care, I don't know what is. Now, I ask you one last question, because I know your time is unbelievably precious. And this is a positive question.
You have carefully, I've heard you carefully before, avoid questions, or rather the link between being British and skin color and ethnicity, which I think is very smart, because I see that rising on the F-no right, if you will, as coming up. And you say, no, it's about culture. And it's almost software, rather than hardware. And my question to you would be, what is it that makes us British? What is it that makes us English? How would you define that?
And I think it's probably, I ask a lot of people on this show, and everyone gives a different answer. Yeah. But I think it's a really important question, because let's say we've spoken about immigration, we've talked about, Islam and Britain. What is it that unite ourselves? What is our common culture? I'll return to this theme. If you don't speak the same language, you're done. You're done. Why that? Why is it under the underground? It's white-chappal and different from in language.
What's that all about? How does that bring us together? So you've got to speak with language. You've got to have some comprehension of the history. Preferably, in the majority of cases, some shared sense of history. I remember with the Commonwealth, the old empire, there was a shared sense of history, a shared sense of suffering in two world wars and many other things. So shared sense of history, I think is very, very, very important.
I think a degree of tolerance is a vital part of Britishness, of Englishness, which means we can have different religions and provide that to do with private observance and not continue public utterance, come work. I think why the Jewish community have done so well in Britain. Whether they came from Russia or Austria or Germany, many of the Jewish people kept their own private observance, but you'd better know in public.
Because they integrated and their kids played football at school with everybody else or whatever it may be. So I think there is that shared sense of the historic nature of who we are as an island, our level of tolerance towards each other, which has always been far bigger than perhaps anywhere else in the world. And ideally, once you're fully integrated, a ridiculous, nonsensical sense of humour, and you've got all of those things you qualify.
And I think the skin colour thing, you know, it's funny. We're just bigger than that. We're just bigger than that. Our global reach, our history of trade, by far the most international of all countries in the European times zone, and always have been, I just think we're bigger than that. I hope so. Are you concerned about the FNO right? And, literally no, I'm delighted.
If you're involved in, if you're involved in blogging or you're involved in, you know, X or whatever, the tick-tock or whatever you are, and if your motivations are literally hatred and loathing with everybody else, please go. Please go over, we don't want you. Go over there. You'll be very comfy over there. We don't want you. And this is going to be one of the big tasks for reform, is that we're building a very powerful political movement. I know we are. I know we are.
It's occupying my whole life. I know, but I know we're doing it. They're terrified of us. Both Labour and Conservative are absolutely scared, witness over our potential. And the one thing the Establish people try to use again and again and again is accusations of extremism, intolerance and racism against us. So, I make this play. You know, if you really, really hate everybody else, because they're slightly different to you, please don't join the party.
But the vast majority of people don't like that. The vast majority of people, the silent majority, no something is wrong. No our country is going downhill. No one in societal decline. No one in economic decline. They want it turned around. And I know, you know, I got back from Mar-A-Large. I did a regional event in Wales. Last Friday, a regional event in the South West, near Exeter on the Saturday. We get big audiences, our memberships booming. And you know something.
They're the most optimistic people in Britain. Because they believe we can turn it around. And I believe we can turn it around. And I would do my damnedest over the next four or five years to turn it around. I promise you one thing. If I was to fail, it won't be through lack of trying. Nigel Frash, on that note. Thank you so much for your time. A pleasure to speak with you. Thank you. Thanks for watching the Winston-Marshall show. That was Nigel Frash.
If you want to support the show, all you have to do is press like and subscribe. If you press like and subscribe, I can have more phenomenal guests. Like Nigel Frash, discussing the issues that you want to hear about at the mainstream media won't touch. Until next time, though, be well. Thank you. Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that.
By designing glasses in-house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact-resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate. And they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by Warby Parker store near you.