Miranda Devine - The DARK Truth About The Biden 'CRIME' Family

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help. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com. Hello and welcome to the Winchester Marge show with me, Winston Marshall. I sat down with Miranda divine author of the laptop from hell and published this week the big guy. The story of Hunter Biden and Joe Biden's nefarious dealings across the world. We took a deep dive into this book into the real goings-on

of the Biden family and their influence peddling across Europe and China and beyond. We get into what this means, the cover-up of those stories. What this means for the upcoming presidential election and what this means for America. All of this and much more. Before we hear from Miranda, I ask if you want to support the show, all you have to do is press subscribe. If you press subscribe, I'm going

to have more phenomenal guests. It's like Miranda divine discussing the issues you want to talk about, but without further ado, issues Miranda divine. Miranda, thank you so much for coming to speak with me. Let me start by congratulating you on your book that you've released this week, The Big Guy, documenting about 2,000 stories all at once. But the story of Hunter Biden, the Biden family, their corruption Joe Biden, our current president, and the cover-up. I'm very keen to get into this.

There's, as I said, so many stories just getting my head around. I don't know how you could have done this as a journalist. It was a monumental piece of work. Just all the things involved in Hunter's life that we've shown that we pulled up from the laptop and the various congressional hearing sins. I guess you document actually how we've got all this information as part of the story, particularly in The Big Guy, but it's also your book The Laptop from Hell. I want to try and make

sense of this all with you now. I'm particularly keen to answer the question, did the current prize president Joe Biden do anything illegal? I think that's where we're get to. I think we could, we'd be in danger of spending this whole conversation going into the various debauchery of Hunter Biden himself. I mean, that he got banned from the shadow mama and loss angeles for doing too many drugs. I worked in the music industry for a long time. That's crazy. I

didn't know that was even possible. Even he couldn't believe it. Quite. His baby mama in Arkansas. I didn't realize he was making porn and uploading it to porn harp. This is the son of the vice president now, current president. There's just so much going on here, but I'm particularly keen in the the dealings of the Biden family, which you go into as well as the cover up, the big cover up of all of this. Anyway, let's get into that. But first of all, Miranda, thank you so much for

taking the time to speak with me. Thank you so much for having me Winston. It's really a pleasure and I'm a big fan of yours from way back. Maybe we can start as I've understood this, your relationship with this story started with Rudy Giuliani, then lawyer of Trump, who had this laptop information that had the laptops rather because John Paul Mac Isaac, the Delaware store owner, who had the laptops, gave them to Giuliani having tried to having given them to the FBI,

not really hearing back from them, eventually he gives them to Giuliani. Then Giuliani gives them to you whilst you're at the New York Post. Then just for a background, maybe you could unpack that part of the story for me. Sure. I think the important thing to remember is that Rudy Giuliani was actually being spied on by the FBI. His eye cloud was subject to a covert surveillance warrant.

So he didn't know that at the time. But in August of 2020, he received an email from John Paul Mac Isaac, the owner of that laptop repair shop in Delaware that Hunter had stumbled in and dropped off a number of laptops that were waterlogged to get fixed and then never came back to pick up this one, never paid his $85 bill. So several months later, John Paul Mac Isaac, it's now his legal property. He has a look at it. He's disturbed by the material that's on the laptop.

And he tries to contact the FBI. He sort of gets short shrift. And he sees that at the same time, Donald Trump is being impeached over this strange energy company in Ukraine called Berisma, which is all over the laptop because Berisma, this corrupt energy company, was paying Hunter a million dollars a year. So John Paul Mac Isaac, he's a Trump fan. He decides that he's going to try and contact various Republicans in Congress. Nobody responds. He sees Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump's

lawyer on television. And he decides, I'll try Rudy as a last ditch effort, gets in touch with actually his lawyer, Rudy's lawyer. And so Rudy and his lawyer do a whole lot of due diligence from sort of August through to beginning of October and of September. They they ascertained, they're both prosecutors from the Southern District of New York. They ascertain as much as they could that this was legitimate. It wasn't a fake. It seemed to be real. It was they didn't actually

have the laptop. They had the hard drive that was FedEx stuck to them by John Paul Mac Isaac. It's a clone of what's on the laptop. A lot of porn. When you first open it up, it's just full on homemade porn by Hunter. Lots of pictures of his penis adorned with M&Ms or or crack smoking crack. Maybe sort of what we've seen now that all over the internet. You know, being massaged with the dainty feet of a hooker or

flopped into a pizza. So there's a lot of and him having sex is not a lot of film. So you've got to get passed all that to this gold, which is the documents and the emails that show the outline of this influence peddling operation that the Biden family has been conducting out of Delaware for a long time. I mean Joe Biden has been the senator from Delaware since he was 29 years old

before he was vice president and before he was president. So and it was when he became vice president to Barack Obama in 2009 that he sort of internationalized this program and his son Hunter who is now in his mid 50s. When you say the program, you mean the Biden influence scheme? Yes. The Biden scheme. Okay. The Biden scheme. Yeah. To use Joe Biden's power

and influence to shake some trees and get some money. And once he became vice president, he was immensely powerful because Barack Obama outsourced his foreign policy to Joe Biden and so China, Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Romania, any country that Joe Biden visited and had power over. They were vying to pour money into the coffers of Hunter Biden

and Joe Biden's younger brother Jim Biden who made it very clear. I mean, Joe Biden brought Hunter along on 2013 trips to China to Beijing to meet the top CCP officials in 2013. And it was crystal clear when Joe Biden gets off Air Force 2 and right next to him is his son Hunter. It was clear to the Chinese that this was American power come to do private business. And that's in fact exactly what happened within a few days. Hunter had a share in a Chinese

equity firm, obviously CCP backed. That was worth millions of dollars. This is the CIFC. No, that was another company. I can't remember its name, but anyway, that was a 10% a year and 10% of this other company, which I could remember the name, but anyway CFC was later on. But that was the way it worked. That Joe Biden would introduce Hunter would bring him in, show that Hunter was in the inner sanctum or go on the speakerphone with Hunter and his clients

or go to a dinner that Hunter organized in Washington DC. He would just show up. And that would be the signal to Hunter's benefactors that he had the vice president at his Beck and call and that the favours that they were seeking would be easily granted. And so the laptop had the bare bones of that on it. And I must say that I was the last reporter that they asked. Rudy Giuliani and his lawyer Bob Costello had tried to get various other media

people interested in the story. But it was three weeks before the election. It was incredibly high stakes. Rudy Giuliani had been dirtied up. His reputation had taken a blow before that. So I think a lot of people were reluctant to take him up on it. And I just happened to be top of mind because I'd done a story with him just that week. And he said to his lawyer Bob Costello, give him a rounder try. So that was last ditch effort with The New York Post. And so anyway,

I saw it. Loved it, obviously. I just looked at it from the point of view of a fantastic story. And I just was lucky enough. I had courageous editors at The New York Post, particularly in Australian Col Allen, who just saw it as an amazing story. And this is sort of, is this October of 2023 weeks before the election? So we had to do the due diligence go down and see, you know, Col Allen just set the best reporters on the post onto it. And you know, we sent a team down

to Delaware to interview John Paul Mac Isaac. John Paul Mac Isaac had an FBI, yet all the paperwork at the FBI subpoena of the laptop, the FBI had come and taken it from him in December of 2019. That also taken one hard drive copy. But they didn't seem to ask him if he had any other copies, which he did. And when the FBI had done nothing about it since December 2019, he got increasingly concerned because he knew there was exculpatory information on the laptop for Donald Trump.

That Donald Trump should have been able to use in his defense in his impeachment. But never did. Never was able to because effectively Donald Trump got impeached for Joe Biden's sins. It was Joe Biden who threatened Ukraine with withholding a billion dollars of US aid unless they fired the prosecutor who was investigating Berisma and Hunter Biden's, you know, bosses.

And it was Donald Trump who ended up getting impeached for supposedly threatening to withhold aid unless President Zelensky actually investigated the Biden's. Yes. So that was Trump's first impeachment. Just on that, what exactly were the grounds for impeachment? I never quite figured that out. And from the book, why, why, I'm sure this is in the public domain, but why, this was led by Pelosi, I think. Why exactly, what exactly do they think

that Trump had done anything wrong there? Yeah. Pelosi was the speaker. They just saw, I guess they were listening in on the phone. It was a public phone call. I mean, there were a lot of people listening in on Trump's phone call with Zelensky. The Democrats knew that this was dangerous because the Ukraine, the mess in Ukraine caused by Hunter Biden being on the grift was immense.

That Berisma being corrupt and the prosecutor who was investigating Berisma in Ukraine being fired when he was in the middle of the pointy end of the investigation, which would have included, he says, subpoenaing Hunter Biden to come and be a witness. And that was a scandal at the time, which Joe Biden managed to ride out because the, I write about this in the big guy, there was a concerted operation by the, the blob that protects Joe Biden. That's, you talk about the CIA, the FBI,

the State Department, the Department of Justice, the IRS. They all swung into action to create a false media narrative about the firing of the Ukrainian prosecutor. And the narrative was that this was a European project that the Europeans wanted Victor Shokin, the Ukrainian prosecutor, to be fired because he was corrupt. And that in fact his, his sin was he was not investigating Berisma, which is the most corrupt company in the most corrupt country in Europe. And so that was

the story, which was the opposite of the truth. But they managed to seed it through and say it's the EU, it's the IMF. And newspaper's all over the world ran that story. So it was a successful media narrative. Let's just go. Yeah. Once that bat for that. So Hunter Biden is appointed onto the board of the Ukrainian energy firm Berisma. Yeah. Six weeks after the Euro-May Don revolution

in Ukraine in Kiev, where President Yennekovich, whose leans towards Putin was outed. And Biden at this point is then the point man for Obama and responsible for looking after foreign American interests in Ukraine. And then Hunter Biden is put onto the Berisma energy

board. So if I can take another step backwards just on Hunter Biden, what exactly are his qualifications that just if we could, if it was possible to ignore his degeneracy, his debauchery, the fact that he all of the crack, the drug taking that he was having a affair with his his dead brother's widow, all of if we could just ignore that Biden senior puts him on the, it's we speculate that Biden

senior puts him on the the board there. But from even if it wasn't Biden, either from Biden's perspective or from a neutral perspective, why would Hunter Biden have the qualification, what would be his possible reason to be on the board, if not to pedal, you know, to try and make the most out of the Biden family name? Yeah. Well, I mean, overlooking the fact that he was a rage in crack addict at the time, he does have a law degree from Yale. So, I mean, he doesn't speak

Ukrainian, doesn't speak Russian. No, it's nothing about the energy business. You know, he says it's because he, you know, is a lawyer and he had previous board experiences. Father's cronies put

him onto the board of Amtrak at one point. So, you know, I guess that's a plausible excuse. But the, the real reason was that the owner of Berisma, a guy called Mikolay Islechewski, knew that the Ukrainian authorities had an investigation into him, but more importantly, that the British serious fraud office in conjunction with the FBI were, it was a really, really big thing in the world at that time to try and claw back the billions that the Yanukovych regime had stolen from the

Ukrainian people. And when they all fled, Yanukovych fled in a helicopter and, and Ukraine was broke. And so, Theresa May, who was then the British Prime Minister, convened this sort of summit about clawing back the money from the kleptocracy. And the, the Chevsky had $23 million in a British bank account that the serious fraud office had managed to freeze. And so, this was the textbook case. They had a conference to resume. Was there Eric Holder, the US Attorney General came

and this was for the world. They're, they're showpiece that they were going to get back the money that Yanukovych had stolen. And so, Zelachewski was in the crosshairs. And what happened is that a bribe was paid to the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office, a few million dollars. And, and at the last minute, there was a letter sent from the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office

to his Zelachewski's defense lawyers in London. And at the old Bailey, the judge accepted that letter, which said that there were no open cases of corruption against Zelachewski in Ukraine, that that letter meant that the serious fraud office could no longer keep a freeze on the bank account. So, the money was released to Zelachewski. And this was a huge embarrassment for the

serious fraud office and for the FBI. And the Brits were absolutely furious with their American counterparts because they felt the FBI was there embedded in Kiev, they were with the prosecutor general's office. They should have been on top of this. It was real egg on the face for the FBI and for the Americans. And so, they said about making a big fuss about it. And, and, and the prosecutor general at the time, a guy by the name of Ureema, was fired. And in his place was

brought Victor Shok and a clean skin, a career prosecutor. You know, I can't find any corruption. And in fact, people say of it, I mean, you never know, Ukraine's an incredibly corrupt country. So, I can't say for sure that he hasn't, you know, had some corruption in his background. But in terms of the way he lives now, he lives in a modest house. The people in Ukraine look up to him

and think of him as sort of one of the rare, clean skins. He prides himself on being a career prosecutor and, you know, operating without fear of favor and not being beholden to anybody. So, it's been a real ego blow to him to have the Europeans and the Americans and the media portray him as being a corrupt prosecutor. And he's really tried to fight against that. And, you know, never as he says, nobody has ever brought up any evidence of corruption against him in all this time. And so,

that's basically how Zlechevsky got away with Blue Murder. And then he decided what he needed was some powerful Americans on his board to protect him from the further investigations that were happening in Ukraine. And he knew that when we, to Shok and was brought in, that the investigations would be reopened, that he'd managed to quash, they would be reopened. And that's exactly what

happened. And Hunter Biden, you know, at the same time as he joined the board with his best friend in business, a man called Devon Archer, who since he's been a great informant for me for the book, he's now come out of the shadows to, so I can say that, he actually testified in Congress as well. But Devon Archer was also on the board of Perisma. And just after Devon joined the board first and Hunter afterwards. And at this time, they, Hunter organized for Devon to visit the White House,

visit his father in his office, ostensibly for a school project for Devon's son. But Hunter took a photograph with Devon and his father together in his father's office in front of an American flag. And that photo was immediately sent to Perisma and put up on the Perisma website. And that was seen in Ukraine and by Victor Shokin as, as Lachevsky saying to anyone who would dare come after him in Ukraine, hey, I've got the most powerful man on my side, the American vice president

who's got carriage of Ukraine. And Devon Archer is his, is Hunter Biden's friend and his evidence of it. Here he is with Vice President Biden. And I'm just about to announce that Hunter Biden, the vice president's son, is also joining the board. And you can see there's some consternation

in the White House about that, near Barma White House. The White House Council, once they catch wind of the fact that this photograph of Joe and Devon Archer is on the Perisma website, there's an urgent flurry of emails, which is on the laptop and Hunter Biden's business partner. Right to Hunter and says, look, we've got to get this photo down because it's causing a problem. White House Council's office, this is the lawyer for the White House, is saying we have to get it

down. It's bad optics. And so it was taken down. But not before the damage was done and the benefit of the Lachevsky was there, this showed that he, to bring Ukraine, that he was a protected man. You said earlier that the motivation, or the motivation of Joe Sr here was to make money. And that's speculative, right? Because we're assuming that's the motivation. Is there anything else that he could have wanted? What would be his other possible interest in playing things out like this?

There's a quote that Devon Archer told me that Joe Biden used to say all the time when he was meeting with Hunter's business partners, he would say, you do a favor for me, you're my friend. You do a favor for my son. You're a friend for life. So I guess there's the evidence that Joe Biden made money is pretty slim. The Republicans in the House once they took power in September in the midterm elections in November of 2022, they had, they sort of launched investigations and they

had subpoena power. All they were able to do with all the bank records they found was find two checks for $250,000 that were written by Jim Biden to Joe Biden, Jim Biden being Joe's

younger brother. And those checks in very convoluted fashion, there was sort of money with drawn out of Jim Biden's bank account after there was a big win fall from I think the Chinese and one case and come and who the others may be the Romanians or something, but there were two nice chunks of money that Jim Biden got from the deals that Hunter was pulling off, which he said were loans being repaid. So so the so but first of all, the money does come into Jim Biden's coffers into his bank

account. His wife withdraws the money, puts it into another account then so so they're obviously trying to disguise the money trail. She finally writes a check and on in on the check to Joe Biden, it says loan repayment. Right. And the White House, that's what the White House maintains that Joe Biden being a kind brother lent his brother who was having some financial difficulties, $250,000 on these two occasions and that Jim Biden then when he came into money, repaid that money. And the

the Republicans in the House were never able to dispute that. So the evidence is just there. Joe Biden has a plausible explanation and that's where that ended. There's other evidence actually on the laptop that I discovered for the first book, which shows that Hunter Biden was paying some of

Joe Biden's bills for the maintenance and upkeep of his vast estate in Delaware. So things like painting of the building, building a retaining wall, installing new shutters, installing air conditioning in a cottage on the property, those sorts of things, you know, $ few thousand here, a few thousand dollars there. So that's on one occasion. And then the other thing we found was that Hunter Biden was paying for a phone bill, an AT&T bill for Joe Biden for a mobile phone,

for a cell phone. That was about it, apart from some evidence of a shared debit card, of sort of co-mingling of their finances. But never that never really led anywhere. It's just again, I guess, plausible deniability. That's what Jim Biden said when another of Hunter Biden's business partners, Tony Bob Linsky, said to him, how are you guys not worried about

Joe Biden being involved in all this? And Jim Biden, according to Bob Linsky, tapped his nose and said, plausible deniability, which is a term of art, concocted by the CIA some time ago, to so that a president can do misdeeds or illegal actions, but he's kept in the dark about it deliberately so that if the whole thing blows open that he can honestly say, look, I didn't know the details of that, I wasn't aware. So that would be Joe Biden. He's just involved at a high

level. So there's two points on that. Firstly, there's a lot of information in your book, which I just devoured over a couple of days. So I haven't assimilated it all. At one point, I think you make the suggestion that it's an exact percentage of a payment that comes into Jim from one of the deals that is then paid on to Joe that makes it look like it's not exactly, well, it could be alone, but it's suspicious how it's exactly a certain percent of

incoming. What do I think of? It's a suspicious coincidence that it's actually 10%. The $250,000 check is 10% of the money that came into Joe and Hunter's coffers. And the reason that 10% is significant is because there's an email on the laptop between Hunter and his business partners in which they're dividing up a deal, a Chinese deal. It was going to be very lucrative with CFC, that Chinese energy company. And they're working out, you know, who gets

which part of the venture is sort of equity, share in the venture. And there's one email that says 10% held by H, Hunter, for the big guy. And the big guy we know now is Joe Biden. That was the nickname or the code name that Hunter Biden's business partners used to describe Joe Biden because the family was paranoid that anybody would find out that Joe was involved in that family business, which was influence peddling. So they never referred to him.

What's the most compelling evidence that you have? And yeah, there's several examples of this in the book. What do you think is the most compelling evidence that the big guy, the quote, quote, big guy, as I remember Trump saying in the debate in 2020 saying, you might be the big guy to Joe Biden. You might be the big guy. I don't know. But are you the big guy? So you say something like that. What's the most compelling evidence that Joe Biden is the big guy? Well, tiny Bob

Alinsky and Devon Archer are Hunter Biden's former business partners. And that was how they described him as the big guy. And there are also other times on the laptop where other people describe Joe Biden as the big guy. In one case, there was a Serbian called Vuk Joromik, who his English isn't the best. So he described Joe as the big man. But that was pretty common. Hunter never described his father as the big guy. He used to call him my chairman. That was sort of his

code name. But there is actually a WhatsApp message between Tony Bob Alinsky and one of the other partners, actually a Brit called James Gilear, who, and James Gilear says to Tony Bob Alinsky, look, I'm sorry, you know, about this, but Hunter is really paranoid about anybody finding out that his father's involved. The family's really paranoid. That was their word. And sorry to go back. Yeah. Another step to you. So even though you're saying you said earlier,

Joe's motivation was money. He also said, if we were to, if the 10% is indeed just alone, there isn't actually evidence that Joe Biden was profiting from any of these dealings. Not really. No, no, it's other than, you know, money that comes into Joe Biden's family is money he doesn't have to spend. So for instance, Hunter paid for his own Ivy League tuition and at Georgetown and Yale. And he also paid for his brother's tuition. That's money that ordinarily a man like Joe Biden,

other middle class families would, you know, be out of pocket for. And you see that across the board. Joe Biden who describes himself as the poorest man in Congress and has this reputation that he's carefully cultivated over half a century in politics as modest Joe, you know, lunch bucket, Joe Amtrak, Joe, you know, middle class Joe, working class Joe. He actually lives in a very

lavish way. He lives like a billionaire. He's lived in DuPont mansions. He's the state he now lives in as a custom built house on a lake in the most lab, you know, ritsy part of Greenville, Delaware, which is for a politician not conceivable, not imaginable. Well, it's no. I mean, he lives far

above his means as a senator. And especially when he's made such a point of being, you know, the poorest man in Congress, I mean, there are other senators who've made a lot of money and other Congress on both sides of the aisle from doing things like insider trading and stock trading. That's not where Joe's made his money. There's not really any evidence where he made his money. And, you know, he did have a book deal after he left the vice presidency and he managed to buy a

holiday house, a beach house in Delaware. And he paid cash for it. Yes, this is the famous book promised me dad, right? Yes. And which his late son, Bo, is on the cover and it's sentric towards that, but kind of ignores Hunter. Yes. Right. Okay. So this is a part of the book or part of this whole story that I find a little bit puzzling because on the one hand, publicly, Joe leans into his relationship with his

sadly dead son, Bo, and kind of ignores Hunter. And, but it seems he's bringing Hunter in to all of these major deals which have geopolitical consequences. Yes. So I don't quite, that doesn't quite square to me. If it seems like he actually thinks Hunter is qualified in some respect to being child, even if it's just to run the family dealings of the Biden family, he is qualified enough to do that. But at the same time, he's sort of distancing himself. How do you, how do you make

sense of that weird jewel relationship? The psychology of their interactions. Yeah, it's really interesting. So Hunter had a brother, Bo Biden, who was there like Irish twins, he's a year older than him. And, and Bo Biden was the golden child. He really was a sunny, lovely kid. Both Hunter and Bo had a huge setback when their mother was killed in a car accident, Joe's first wife. In fact, just after he won the election at the age of 29, to be the senator from Delaware. And he

was in Washington, DC just before Christmas. And sort of trying to set up his new office and his wife with their baby daughter and the two little boys in the back seat had this almighty car crash. She was killed. The baby girl was killed. And Hunter and his brother Bo were aged about three and four. And really badly injured. Bo had a broken leg, Hunter had head injuries. They were hospitalised for quite a long time. And Joe Biden, you know, tragedy for him. He was sworn in at

his son's bedside, hospital bedside. He brought the media in, set up a podium there. The photographs with the little bandaged boys looking one and sad in the foreground. And their father being sworn in in the background just touched a nation's heart. You know, you couldn't look at those photographs and not feel sympathy for this poor widow or in his poor motherless children. But if you just bring one photographer in, did he? No. He brought a whole junk, or a whole

that was there was no. Yeah. Team that that's so peculiar. Isn't it? Because if you're breathed and you know, you're a recent widower, you're going to be, I don't know how you can possibly process that sort of pain and make a decision like that. That's so cynical. Really.

Yeah. I mean, when you look back and you step back and you actually look at other photographs of the scene in the room and all the photographers and the the journalists all scrammed in there and the spectacle of these poor little boys, he could have he could have held that press conference in the corridor. He could have held it outside. Why he chose to do it in the hospital room with the little boys in the foreground. You know, I mean, it was deliberate to to enlist at

sympathy and it to worked fantastically for him. And he's used that photograph in every, you know, campaign sense and you know, and it was a tragedy. I mean, it was awful for him. But it also worked for him in the Senate because here he was. This neophyte comes in. Doesn't know anything. Really has nothing to recommend him. And he was sort of brought under the wing of his colleagues, the older senators whose wives really, you know, such a make sure you look after

that poor young Senator Joe Biden and invite him for dinner and so on. And so it really worked to his advantage and he worked it to his advantage as well. And I think it tells you a little bit about the lengths that he will go to to gain power. But anyway, the sum aspect of that which is somewhat understandable if you're going for a bereavement, some people will lean into work and some, you know, to try and deal with it. So to some extent, I kind of sympathise. It's that extra

is bringing your kids who are so young into the thing that that's where it goes. It just gets a bit peculiar for me. Yeah. I mean, look, the fact he he he had his dream job. He wasn't going to give that up for anyone. You know, I don't know. I think some people would make a different decision, not not do a big job when their kids have just lost their mother, but so so be it. And he said, well, I'm commuting backwards and forwards to Washington on Amtrak and I'll always be home to,

you know, see my children at night. But, you know, I'm led to believe that's not exactly what happened. But and Hunter certainly felt abandoned and felt and he was lucky. Joe's younger sister, Val, really gave up her life. She moved into the house. She became their mother. So did Joe's dream as well? Jim as well moved into the garage. And because Joe Biden had three siblings, he was put on a pest, he was the oldest. He was put on a pedestal by his mother. He was treated

as a god. He went to the family, uh, scrimptons, saved to send him to a prep school, private Catholic prep school. His brothers had to content themselves with going to the local public school. He really was the sort of son around which the entire family revolved. And so and and they have done so since they've given up everything to make sure that Joe Biden is, you know, looked after and by the same way he looks after them, he makes sure that they've had grace and favor jobs and

from donors and, you know, the perks of office. And so so maybe that's his motivation, actually. Perhaps yeah. He's the kind of return to his family that he feels like he's got a lot from his family. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, and Hunter is sort of a naughty kid, a bit uncontrollable, maybe a bit ADHD. And bow his one year older, everybody loves bow. And um, and so Hunter always

felt, and I know this because he writes about it at length and talks to people about it. And he loved bow enormously, but he also felt inadequate around him and also felt that bow and well, that bow's friends sort of used to treat him like the little brother, the annoying little brother that tagged along and was hopeless. So he always had this insecurity. And Hunter wanted to be a writer or a, or a painter. He was quite artistic and and he is quite a good writer and

he's not a bad painter. Um, but Joe had different ideas. Um, Joe wanted bow to be, he wanted to create a dynasty like the Kennedy dynasty. He'd grown up as a Catholic kid, really, um, and his whole family looked up to the Kennedy family. And Joe has tried to recreate the sort of Kennedy clan. He had an estate. Um, he instead of holidaying on Martha's Vineyard, he holidayed on Nantucket, even though he had no ties to Nantucket. Um, and he just, you know, and he, he write down to

having sort of family conferences at home, just like the Kennedys did. And, um, and so he wanted bow to follow in his footsteps and he wanted bow to be president. Um, and bow was, um, the attorney general for Delaware and uh, everybody, no one has a bad word to say about bow, Biden. And Hunter's role that, that his father assigned him was to be the bagman so that Joe and bow never had to dirty themselves with the, the nasty business of collecting money. That Hunter would

do that. Hunter would collect the money, whether it be for campaigns or just for their lifestyle, there was sort of an overlap there. And, um, and Hunter Hunter sort of resented that he, uh, in, in various sort of missus that I found on the laptop, he says to his daughter at one point, you know, you're lucky that you didn't have to give half your salary to pop. Um, and every job that Hunter had, even his entry to Yale, he was a mediocre student to get into Yale law school.

You needed to be really top of the pops. He didn't have the marks for it. Um, but, um, you know, there is evidence that phone calls were made and um, he was helped into that. He, he says that it was the quality of a piece of poetry that he wrote that got him into Yale, which, I mean, beggars belief. But, um, so, so everything he did, he owed to his father. And, um, and I think he was smarter, he is smarter than his father, but, um, his first job out of Yale was at, uh,

MBNA, which is a credit card company in Delaware. Um, most corporates in America or many of them are headquartered in Delaware because it's the, the most opaque jurisdiction, um, as far as

company law goes in the country, it's, it's called the Lichtenstein of America. Um, and so that gave Joe Biden tiny little state, but it gave him immense power because as the senator from Delaware, these big corporates were wanting favors from him, uh, in his role as, uh, he was chairman of the Judiciary Committee, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, probably the most powerful role in the Senate there, uh, in, in, or the most powerful committee. Um, and so, uh, it was not

very hard for Joe to get favors from these companies. And MBNA gave Hunter a job straight out of college, or straight out of Yale, um, at a wildly inflated price. And that was how he could afford to pay off his loans, his student loans and his brother's student loans. He hated the job. Um, and, uh, but that's what he had to do for the family for, for Joe. So there was almost like a love hate relationship with his father. And you can see that as, uh, his life wears on, you see it in

the laptop, which spans nine years of his life. Um, and at the time that Hunter abandoned the laptop, um, in 2019, April of 2019, uh, at the laptop repair shop, he was in a terrible condition. His crack addiction, uh, was at its height. Uh, his marriage was, uh, over. Um, he was conducting this, turret affair with his, uh, with bow, bow-died of brain cancer, um, sadly. Um, so Bose, Widow, uh, Halley Biden, he was having an affair with her. Um, he also had other hookers and women on

the side, uh, including, um, the baby mama from Arkansas. Um, so his life was a nice. No, no, has no relationship with the family at all. She, she sort of extracted a little relationship. Um, her, she, she now has a daughter who's five, I think, um, Hunter's daughter, um, and, in the president's grand daughter, and the president's granddaughter, it's granddaughter, it's seventh grand, grandchild. And, um, Hunter initially, uh, refused to

acknowledge the child. She had to go to court, get a DNA test. Uh, he was proven to be the father. She got child support that was organized during actually the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, Joe Biden's, um, the election campaign for president. Um, and it was all hushed up at the time. But, um, um, but anyway, to, to just to go back Hunter, um, at the time that he dropped off the laptop to get repaired, he had, I think three laptops that are all waterlogged. He was raging against

his father and the family. He'd felt, uh, April 2019, he dropped the laptop off just, um, a week or two before Joe announced that he was running for president for the last time. And, um, uh, and, and Hunter was furious because Joe's, I think it was actually Joe, but he blamed, Hunter blamed Joe's staff, um, had shop, had worked bad mouthing him. And there was a Maureen Dowd column. And Maureen Dowd was Joe Biden's favorite columnist at the New York Times.

And she wrote this column, basically, you know, poor Joe, he's got this albatross around his neck, which is his wayward son Hunter, who's just hopeless. And Hunter was furious because he says, you know, I've kept this family afloat. I have supported the extended family for 30 years. And this is how I'm treated. I'm thrown under the bus. I made a mockery of my reputation as mud.

He was absolutely furious. And so, I mean, I, I just, my, my sort of theory is that it was almost a Freudian thing that he, he left his laptop, never went back to pick it up, flew off to California, didn't care. He was getting text messages and emails from John Paul MacIasek who wanted to be paid, his $85 and wanted Hunter to come and pick up the laptop and Hunter just ignored him. And, um, when you say Freudian, you mean he was, he was intentionally, he wanted to hit the party.

Well, Freudian, like, maybe he didn't know. I, I think that his subconsciously, he hated, he didn't hate, but he was so angry with his father, um, at throwing him under the bus that subconsciously may be somewhere he just didn't care. You know, he went and threw himself into this, um, just complete bender in LA, spending most of the time at the Shashou Mahmou, um, and trashing the place and spending the Chinese money, millions of dollars on crack and hookers and just partying.

Um, he's, he wrote in his memoir, um, that, uh, he had, he called it an ant trail of drug dealers and hookers and, um, you know, just druggies, uh, parading through his, his, uh, cottage that he had at the Shashou Mahmou, which was right near where John Belushi had died of a, uh, corner, yeah, of a cocaine, speedball overdose. And, and so Hunter was sort of on this self-destructive binge. And, uh, and so I think that laptop was a ticking time bomb, which, um, was poised to destroy his father's

campaign. And Hunter kind of left it out there and didn't care. Um, can we take another step back to you, Craig? Sure. Because there's, um, details of the money, which I think is interesting, which then would come into the larger question about influence paddling that I'm keen to get to. Yeah. So you answered the question earlier that we don't have death definitive, not proof of

Joe senior Joe Biden receiving money. Yeah. But I'm still interested in the, whether he broke other laws and, um, influence paddling and, and lobbying laws, whatever they would be, which you're no better than I do. So Hunter was receiving a lot of money from Berisma. Was something, was it a million a year? A million a year, 83,333 a month, yeah. An archer as well. Yes. His partner, archer was also receiving and Jim. No. Was Jim involved.

Jim was not involved with Ukraine. Jim was only involved with China as far as I know. And I want to continue. China and Romania. Yeah. Uh, and possibly Kazakhstan, although, yeah, Kazakhstan wasn't in the book. Uh, in this I was in this book, I think, uh, yeah. Um, uh, so he is, he is making money, um, Hunter and archer are making money from the Berisma deal. If then we,

we're sort of, it's again speculative. But if, if Joe senior's motivation is that he wants his family to have money to, that it would help their, the sort of legacy of the Biden, uh, dynasty, um, and he was indeed influence paddling. What are the laws around that in America? Is that legal? What, what is technically okay and not okay? And, and what line would, would we say that he's gone too far? Uh, sorry. Well, I mean, look, I mean, these are only

allegations. And obviously I'm not going to accuse Joe Biden, um, outright of something. But these are the allegations and, um, what, um, people more, um, you know, well, versed with American law have told me, um, you know, bribery, potentially allegedly bribery, foreign agent, uh, registration, violation, so illegal for foreign lobbying, um, money laundering,

um, uh, you know, potentially tax evasion. Um, but there's really not, not good evidence. I don't know, you know, even if there was the will in the Department of Justice to try and pursue this,

which there certainly hasn't been, it's been the opposite they've covered it up. Um, um, and certainly the IRS guys were, were looking into hunter for all these things and they, they, there was evidence enough for them to continue to pursue the evidence trail, but they were blocked by the Department of Justice by their own prosecutors from pursuing any of that evidence. So any, anytime, uh, the evidence trail led to Joe Biden, um, they were blocked.

For instance, they were not allowed to search, uh, a cottage on Joe Biden's estate. Um, where hunter had been living. Um, they were not allowed to go for a search warrant. Um, there was a search warrant that they did, did actually get for a, um, a storage locker that hunter had a lot of documents in, um, and the prosecutors tipped off hunter's lawyers. Um, there was one occasion where hunters, um, sent a WhatsApp message to one of his Chinese partners. He says,

I'm sitting here with my father. He and I both want to know basically where's the money. And if you don't give us the money that you owe us, then my father and me and everyone that we know will make your life a misery. So he's written this shakedown WhatsApp message, um, which was exposed by the IRS investigators who turned whistleblower. Um, and, and at the time we know from the metadata on the laptop, there are photographs that place hunter Biden at his father's house that weekend.

And there's also, um, a photograph of Joe Biden that weekend the night before the WhatsApp message was taken at a bar, a photograph by a patron. He doesn't drink, but he was photographed in this local bar. Um, so he was there for the weekend and we know that the grandchildren were there as well again from photographs and metadata. So, um, what the IRS investigators wanted to do was geo-locate the phones and to see if hunter was telling the truth when he said he was sitting with

his father. They were blocked from doing that. Um, and, uh, I mean, there was another instance where they wanted to interview a man called Kevin Morris, who's a Hollywood attorney, um, who, uh, uh, lent hunter upwards of six million dollars. I'm, I'm thinking it could be as much as 10 million dollars to pay off his, uh, overdue tax bills to pay his $30,000 a month Malibu rental and, you know, pay off his Porsche repayments. Um, and basically lives the lavish lifestyle that he

enjoys. And, um, Kevin Morris was peculiar to the investigators. Uh, where did he come from? Why was he helping hunter? Um, they were, in fact, uh, start, there was an FBI investigation that was launched and then hobbled, um, into whether or not the, this money that Kevin Morris was providing was effectively a donation in kind to the Democrats to Joe Biden's campaign. Because Kevin Morris came on the scene, um, in 2020 when Joe Biden was running for president.

So, um, might have even been late, uh, 2019. And so, uh, the CIA intervened, uh, when the IRS investigators were trying to interview Kevin Morris, um, according to the IRS whistleblowers, the prosecutors were summons to Langley, CIA headquarters, where they were told, uh, that Kevin Morris was off limits that he shouldn't be interviewed. So they're another example. When, when, uh, the investigators wanted to interview, uh, witnesses, they were told, don't, you cannot

ask about Joe Biden. You cannot ask the identity of the big guy. So at every stage, any trail that went to Joe Biden was blocked. So that's why while they managed to amass and, uh, information about Hunter Biden, uh, enough to, that now he's had to plead guilty, um, for these tax charges. And he was convicted. Yeah, nine, nine, he's been given to nine, uh, felony tax charges, yeah. California, yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and he was also convicted in Delaware of these gun felonies.

Um, the, the statute of limitations was allowed to run out by, um, the Department of Justice of US Attorney who was in charge in Delaware, who helped slow walk this, hobbled up the investigators,

kept information from them. Um, he allowed the statute of limitations to run out on the years 2013, 2014, which were where the most serious charges when it comes to, uh, Joe Biden were, because that was the danger time when he was involving himself in Ukraine and where he pressured, uh, the president of Ukraine, Poroshenko, to fire the prosecutor, the honest prosecutor, who is investigating barisma. You know, if that, if that had, uh, become part of the investigation,

that would have been spelled, uh, a lot of difficulty for Hunter Biden. Well, not just for Hunter, for his father. And it's interesting. If you look at the California, um, indictment, um, while the 2013 and 2014, um, facts couldn't be charged, because the statute of limitations are run out. The new prosecutors who were brought in after a big scandal when the IRS whistleblowers, uh, blew everything up and Hunter Biden was supposed to get this sweetheart plea deal, where he didn't

have to plead guilty to anything. He just got a slap on the wrist and sort of a, uh, because of his drug addiction, he got a, um, sort of diversion program for the gun. Um, all of that was blown up, thanks to the IRS whistleblowers, um, and the new prosecutors that came in sort of used the information that the IRS investigators had amassed. And while they couldn't charge for 2013 and 2014, they put the evidence in the indictment. And that was a message, I think, from them to the Biden's

hate. You think you've gotten away with this, but we're going to bring it into court. You might not get charged over it, but the embarrassment will still be there. Mm hmm. So you describe this protection as a sort of invisible hand. Yeah. It's protecting the Biden's and, and well,

this kind of somewhat exposed during the Twitter files. Yes. Although what's happened with the IRS investigation, as well as the gun felony suggests that the, like you've just described, that the invisible hand is not completely on the side that there's, it's not so simple as to say that there's complete protection of Biden. There is forces out there that it's, yeah, that they're,

they're, it's difficult for the Biden somewhat. It's, yes, up to a point. So what happened was the, the two IRS investigators, so there was Gary Shapley, who was the supervisor and his, um, lead agent, a guy by the name of Joe Ziegler. This was a pretty straightforward investigation. They were looking at tax fraud. They were looking at money laundering, some foreign agent violations, foreign illegal

fault, foreign lobbying. They were just treating it like they would any other taxpayer. And, um, the reason that Hunter came into their, into their radar was because, um, banks in America are required to file, um, what's called a, a SARS, a suspicious activity, um, registration. I think that's what it is. Um, anyway, they're these, these notifications to the Treasury Department.

If something suspicious happens, so, um, something it looks like it could be bribery, for instance, huge amounts of money coming in from Ukraine to the son of the vice president, that sends up a red flag immediately. Um, and there were other things, uh, with Morgan Stanley, there were some red flags over, um, another dodgy deal that they were doing, um, with an outfit called, um, Burnham, which Devon Archie actually ended up, um, being convicted over, uh, but Hunter Biden, as usual,

was not, he was not involved, according to the, uh, the prosecutors. Um, so, um, what, what ended up happening was that, um, the, the IRS investigators, they kept on pushing against these obstacles. They kept on trying to do their job. They knew the fix was in somewhat, but they still thought that they could persevere. And what Gary Shapley, the supervisor, was doing, he kept on, um, getting all these complaints from Josiegler, his age, and about

the prosecutors stopping me doing this, stopping me doing that. He knew that this was unusual and untoward, um, and he, he kept on sending messages up the line, uh, to his superiors at the IRS, who just didn't want to know about it because it was Joe Biden. They were, they were cowardly, and they ignored, um, Gary Shapley's sort of escalating fury about the hobbling of his investigation.

And so eventually, um, they decided to blow the whistle. They made, protected perfectly legally, protected whistle blow, blow it disclosures to the inspector general, um, to another body, and finally to Congress. Um, and they went to Congress. They had it behind closed doors, meeting, and they provided them with a whole lot of evidence, documents that they uncovered during their investigation. And what they said to me is that they could not live with their

conscience if they didn't do this. Now, Josiegler is a registered Democrat. He's a gay man, married, his marriage has broken up, um, his friends, because of this. Absolutely. His friends will turn their back on him. Um, he became a pariah, um, in his community, because everyone's a Democrat. They couldn't understand why he would do this and damage Joe Biden

when the evil Donald Trump would, would prosper. But Josiegler, who's like, absolute, crack, like the team that, that Gary Shapley leads at the IRS is known as kind of the seal team sticks of the IRS criminal investigators. Um, you know, they, they do criminal investigations, tax investigations around the world. Gary Shapley leads a task force with the five eyes countries

on tracking down tax scoff laws. He's managed to bring back to American into, to save the taxpayers from tax scoff laws, you know, millions and millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars. Like he is an absolute gun and Josiegler was his best agent. So they have sort of professional pride in what they do. And it was so, um, unusual and so, um, frightening and, and just wrong for them to see what was happening. And they both have said to me, they came to my

book launch the other nine in New York. And they both said to me, um, we could not have lived with ourselves, with our conscience, if they allowed, we allowed this to go on. And what Shapley says is that the only way the tax system works is that taxpayers understand that, that everybody has to pay their tax. They all have to pay their fair share that there's not favoritism given to, to one group of powerful people over another. And that's sort of the, the sort of morality that,

that they both live under. Well, if I can make a small point on this, why I speak in them, thinking from the point of view of Joe Biden, if you've got a political family, yes, you say to everyone, if you're going to have a Kennedy style family conference, all number one, sort of bloody taxes. Yeah, we got to be clean as a whistle. We got to make sure that, particularly if you have nefarious ambitions to laundromani or, or influence, whatever,

trying to make money elsewhere, make sure that it's watertight. It's whatever watertight is, Hunter Biden is the opposite. Yeah, it's like, it's, there's, there's not, it's just a water all over. It's a, it's a hurricane. Well, it's a disaster. It wasn't just what he is trying to say, is, oh, it's, you know, addicted and I didn't put my taxes in and time. No, he was outright, and he's now admitted to it, um, defrauding the tax office. What he was doing was, um,

trying to claim sex club membership. He was trying to claim his daughter's, um, tuition at Columbia University, um, you know, every, every single expense that he could. And this was when he was sober, supposedly, he's told the court that he was sober at this time when he was putting in these dodgy tax returns. So, um, you know, they had a very good open and shut case of tax fraud

against him. They couldn't make the other, they did do investigations into money laundering and foreign lobbying, but, um, they, they never could get far with that because of the obstruction. And, you know, ultimately, even though they had this slam dunk case against Hunter Biden, still that Department of Justice was doing this sweetheart deal, a US attorney David Weiss, who then became special counsel, um, approved for Hunter Biden to get this deal where he didn't

have to plead guilty. Uh, and it wouldn't serve a day in jail. And, um, would, everything would be wiped out. And it was just that because the whistleblowers came forward, all hell broke loose, um, they had to fire there. Well, you know, take them off the case. They weren't fired from the IRS. Take them off the case to make it look fair. They had to also take the prosecutors off the case. And in their place came another, uh, set of prosecutors who were not read into, oh, this is supposed

to be a racket to protect Joe Biden. They just played it by the book. They'll throw in this case at the last minute there to appear in a Delaware court. Delaware appeared just by the way, for the contacts appearing fair because at the same time are the various cases against Trump that's happening. So in terms of the public imagination, this is, uh, oh, yes, that's true. Yes.

Uh, April, May, June. Yes. Yeah. June, June, so that, that, it has to appear when, when the sweetheart deal was happening, um, that the, the Trump law, if they hadn't started, right? Those Trump cases hadn't started. So at this time, when it was thrown out at the same time as the Trump case, it wasn't quite late that it was that they decided that will be no plea deal. Yes. So I think that was, uh, last year, I think that was sort of July 23. Okay. That, that court

case happened. And, and they're just, you know, in Delaware, Joe Biden, it's hard to sort of understand the way Delaware works, but it really is a, um, the Biden's rule, the roost. Everyone's terrified of the Biden's. Um, you know, there's talk that the, you know, I mean, because various of the cousins and the, the in laws and so on have, you know, drink driving cases or run their cars off the road and it all sort of seems to get wiped out. The cops are

on side have to be Joe Biden, um, rules the roost there. Um, there, there was a case for instance, some time ago, many years ago, um, where, um, a local, um, brewing family, the Tagani family, that the son of, uh, of this family, Chris Tagani was at a party with, uh, at a fundraiser with

Joe Biden, who was then running his Senate campaign, um, and his son's bow and hunter. And, uh, he, Chris Tagani says, um, he said this in testimony that he was approached by, um, the Biden campaign to, um, get some straw donations from his, um, he didn't know how this worked, but you get small donations from all your employees and then you pay them back and you sort of get around the

campaign finance laws that way. Um, Chris Tagani ended up going to jail for that, um, but, uh, he was asked to wear a wire and, um, the US attorney in charge of that investigation was the US attorney David Weiss. Um, and Chris Tagani has told me that he believes that the fix was in on behalf of Joe Biden because it, surely, if he was wearing a wire, he should have been coming up in front of the Biden family and asking them questions and trying to catch them, but he, the FBI is, oh no, no,

don't, you know, and, and David Weiss is in charge. No, don't go near the Biden's, um, just, we'll catch up some sort of penny anti-local, um, Delaware people and, uh, Chris Tagani did that,

never got anywhere and ended up going to jail. So he's very bitter about the Biden's and that he, um, he was sort of in his words, he was, um, sort of, you know, co-opted to do this illegal donations by the Biden campaign for the Biden's and Joe Biden and his sons met him and thanked him at this party and yet, uh, and his family had been huge donors of Joe Biden for a long time and yet he

carried the can and he thought the fix was in and Joe Biden was let off the hook. And so then years later you've got the same US attorney David Weiss who's now running the investigation into Hunter Biden and, and at the time this was Donald Trump was still president, um, and at the time sort of 2019, 2020, there were floods of, um, sort of whistleblowers and other complaints that were coming into the department of justice from all over the place. I was one in Arkansas, um, there were,

there was in New York lots of places just about the Biden family influence pedaling. And so what the then attorney general under Trump Bill Barr decided to do was to funnel it all into, um, the US attorney's office in Pittsburgh to sort of vet all this material before it went to, um, to Delaware to be looked at by the US attorney David Weiss. David Weiss was taking care of all the

Biden, um, the Hunter Biden sort of dirt that came through. And, um, it's a curious thing that you would, you would get that investigation into Hunter Biden to be conducted in Delaware in the very state where Joe Biden rules the rules and everybody is really, um, under his thumb. I've always thought that that was odd that Bill Barr would do that. Why would you not put it into a, um, and, and sort of independent jurisdiction? And in fact, that's what Joe Ziegler said. Joe Ziegler

was the one who opened the investigation into Hunter Biden in late 2018. And he could never understand. He in fact complained bitterly to his bosses. Why, why is this investigation going to be handled in Delaware? It should not be, that's a last place. It should be, um, should be investigated. And, and you know, there's evidence of FBI agents, um, saying during a meeting, I'm, look, you know, I'm not comfortable about conducting that search warrant because I've now moved my family

back to Wilmington where the Biden's rule aroused. Um, and, uh, and I, I just would find that really awkward for me and my family. So, um, it was just a really peculiar thing and, and sort of set the

investigation up to fail from the start. But, but, uh, well, and, and yet now it looks like there's going to be some sort of, yes, comes to the felonies that there will be some sort of, absolutely, justice on, so, so what happened was this, um, they hunter goes to court, this sweetheart plea deal, was supposed to just be rubber stamped, but because they'd swapped out, um, the prosecutors, when and, and they just had bad luck to get a judge, um, who was, you know, an honest judge,

judge, Maryl and Noreka. Um, she started querying the, um, terms of this plea deal. And, I think she was primed for that because the night before the court case, something very odd happened, um, in her court. Um, there was a, um, uh, what's called an amicus brief was filed by a sort of a whistleblower group, um, or a think tank, actually a conservative think tank. And in it, they, um, included all of the testimony that Gary Shapley and Josiegler had given to Congress, um, which shows

that the fix was in and that this plea deal was dodgy. So that was the amicus brief. And, and what happened was a phone call was made to the clerk of the court in Delaware, um, turned out it was from Hunter Biden's law firm, uh, his, his lawyer's law firm and said, um, what the clerk heard at this woman on the phone say was, look, um, we, we want you to take that down. We are the, um, the people who, you know, the whistleblower group or the, the think tank, we are the lawyers for the

think tank. We made a mistake. We want to take that off the, off the file, um, and please close it down and make it secret. And so that's what the clerk of the court did. And it was actually Hunter Biden's lawyers. And so there was a big cuffuffle. The judge was brought in. She was furious. She said Hunter Biden's lawyers. This is like nine o'clock at night. Um, she says lawyers, you have to show cause why I shouldn't, you know, penalize you for this nefarious action. And so Hunter Biden's

lawyer said, no, no, no, we didn't do that. The, the young female lawyer who had made the phone call said, no, they misunderstood. I wasn't misrepresenting myself. It's all been a terrible misunderstanding. She wrote a statutory declaration, basically saying that, um, and so, you know, the whole thing was put right that, that whistleblower sort of information was, um, then unveiled again. But it, it just, I think, would have given the judge some pause to think, was something odd

is going on here. Maybe I should read that if she hadn't already. And so she was primed, uh, the next morning in court to look, um, a little a scant's at what was going on and to see that this, to just ask a few more questions, which she did. And when she asked the question, does this play deal give Hunter, she was very confused about it because it was a weird setup with two separate, um, you know, this, this sort of strange diversion agreement for the gun charges and, um, and so on.

And she said to the prosecutors, um, does this give Hunter Biden immunity from prosecution for, for instance, foreign agent registration violations, foreign lobbying, um, violations? And the prosecutor, uh, who's the new prosecutor says, no, because of course, no one's going to get permanent immunity for separate charges. And of course, that was what was supposed to happen. And so Hunter's lawyer stands up and says, no, the deals off. I mean, there was a bit more

cuffful about it, but he finally says, no, the deals off. Hunter's not going to agree to anything. He doesn't want to be exposed to farive violations in the future. And so they made a huge mistake by, by calling off the, um, the plea deal. And because that then allowed the prosecutors to, um, these new fresh, honest prosecutors to follow the investigative trail as far as they could. And in fact, every single word that was in that indictment in California on the tax felonies

and in the gun charges, that was the work of Gary Shapley and Joe Ziegler. Um, you know, it was going to be buried and be seen no more. Um, but, uh, as it turned out, because Hunter hubris made that facial error in court that day. Yeah. Um, because he was determined that he was not going to plead guilty to anything. Um, you know, he has a law license. He has this bar license that he doesn't want to lose, et cetera. So now he's been convicted by a jury in Delaware

of these serious gun, um, charges. Yeah. So those were three felon charges on. This Halloween, ghoul all out with Instacart, whether you're hunting for the perfect costume, eyeing that giant bag of candy or casting spells with eerie décour. We've got it all in one place. Download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Plus, enjoy zero dollar

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should be for Halloween fun, not for your emotions. Take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com. This was exposed by the laptop because the laptop showed that he was addicted to drugs when he tried to buy a pistol in Wilmington, Delaware. Yes. In 2018, was it? I think so, yep. And it showed that he was actually addicted to drugs at the time of buying.

Yes. And what he was in trouble for was he signed a form, a sworn declaration on a form to say that he was not using or addicted to illicit drugs. That's a felony. And other people, there's a rapper called Kodak Black who went to jail for that same infringement. It was a serious charge. And yes, it was the laptop that really gave him up and there were Wittisatting Court. And I watched that laptop which had been dismissed by 51 former intelligence officials most

of them. The DL51. The DL51. As Russian disinformation. It basically ignored by the entire media. Ignored by the media said to be fake, Hunter Biden said he couldn't remember if he had a laptop. His lawyer, Kevin Morris, was pretending that it was stitched up made up by Rudy Giuliani.

He called it Rudy Giuliani's mixed tapes, etc. I watched that laptop being held aloft by the prosecutor in the Delaware courtroom wrapped in a plastic wrapper, carried across to the jury, shown to them and then taken to the witness box, shown to the FBI witness there who confirmed, yes, that was Hunter Biden's laptop. Yes, they figured that out back in December of 2019, that it belonged to Hunter, that it had not been tampered with. Nothing had been added or subtracted

from it. And that it was valid to be used in a court of law as evidence. And the entirety of that laptop can be accessed online. I forgot on the actual website, but I'll put it in the description. Yes, not by us, but by this group called Marco Polo. And we have nothing to do with them, but they when you say, assuming the New York Post, New York Post being us. But they've done a very good job of going through the laptop and putting up the whole hard drive, not the porn. Well, they've

tried to hose that down. That's an interesting turn of face. As with the IRS charge, we await sentencing this December, maximum penalty of 17 years. I, if I made, there's a couple of thing, I leave you things I'd quite like to say to you. And that is particularly the China deals. Yes. Before we do that, we've covered Ukraine. Is there anything important about the Ukraine that we and Hunter's dealing said that you don't think we've covered that? Yes. Yes.

The cover up. I think which is incredibly important because you have Victor Shokan, the honest Ukrainian prosecutor. He's investigating Berisma. And we know he's investigating Berisma because he seized the property of Mikalo Zlećewski who's living in exile in Dubai at that time. He seized his house, a Rolls Royce car, some plots of land and so on. That was part of his

investigation. He told me that his next step was to Sapena Hunter Biden and his best friend, Devon Archer and other foreigners who were sitting on the Berisma board, including the former president of Poland, his name I can't pronounce. And he was going to, Sapena, he wanted to call him as witnesses and find out why they were on the board and what they knew about Zlećewski's dealings because Zlećewski had been a minister for energy in the

Yanukovic government, the sort of Russia aligned government that had to flee after the maiden revolution, the maiden revolution which was assisted anyway by the CIA before a sort of puppet government was put in place, an American puppet government, and then they had sort of

elections in Poroshenko who was obviously doing the bidding of the Americans came in. And so so Victor Shokan has been brought in after the bribery scandal Poroshenko takes Joe Biden at his word when Joe Biden says we need to eradicate the terrible corruption that's in this country while his son is sitting on the board and getting a million dollars a year from the most corrupt company in the country. But Poroshenko puts Shokan in, Shokan's doing this investigation.

You can see the trail where Hunter Biden is getting increasingly urgent emails from Berisma saying you have to use your influence in your connections to stop the prosecutors in Ukraine from coming after us. This is getting really serious and no more pussy-footing around. You have to do something. We know from Devon Archer that there was a Berisma board meeting in Dubai. Joe Biden is vice president and Hunter is at a nearby hotel after the board meeting dinner,

meeting with a friend and he didn't want to drink in front of the Berisma people. And Devon is approached by the Berisma Zlechevsky and his sidekick and said where's Hunter? We need to speak to him urgently. And Devon says, oh look he's at this other hotel. They hop in a car. They go and see Devon, see Hunter. And what Devon told me is that Zlechevsky and his sidekick Vadim say to Hunter, we need to speak to your father, get him on the phone. And that's what Hunter used to do quite

often is get his father on the speaker phone to speak to his clients. And what Devon told me was that that Hunter got his dad on the on the phone sort of mid afternoon in Washington DC and says, dad, this is you know, Michael Azoz Chevsky and for Dim Bersaski, they'd like to speak to something, you know, they've got some sort of a problem. As I say, Joe Biden never really addresses anything concrete, but is just on the phone listening. And now to be fair, Devon Archer

then had to testify to Congress. He told a slightly different story. He had a lawyer and the Democrats who were kind of running interference for him at the time. He said initially that yes, that Joe Biden was on the phone. And then after a break and after the Democrats in the committee and the, this was in a private hearing and his own lawyer, who's working pro bono for him from

the law firm that the owner is a good friend of the Biden, so an adonner. And so he sort of changed his tune a bit and he said, well, I'm not really sure because I wasn't listening in on the phone, they walked away. So they just, maybe it was Joe Biden, I'm not sure. And then he's asked, why did you say it was Joe Biden? He says, well, because when I was in the car on the way back to the hotel with Vadim and Michael Azoz Chevsky, they told me that it was Joe Biden on the phone.

So one way or the other, he's told us on the record, you know, in swan testimony and to me personally that it was Joe Biden on the phone. And that was at a very crucial moment for, for charisma. They were Victor Shoken was closing in and they were really worried. And sure enough, Joe Biden a couple of days after that, Dubai phone call flies into Kiev. And that was when he gave the order that Poroshenko had to get rid of Victor Shoken, took a little while to make

that happen. Victor Shoken tells the story of Poroshenko saying, you know, I'm sorry, but Biden's forcing me to do this. There's also a phone recording, several phone recordings of Joe Biden speaking to Poroshenko, the president of Ukraine at the time. Now these recordings, they certainly sound like Joe Biden and Poroshenko. And neither man has denied it, but they probably were made by Russians or Russian aligned people. So there's hairs on on the provenance of that, but it still sounds like

Joe Biden. And he's saying to Poroshenko, or Poroshenko is saying to him, you know, it's very hard for me to get rid of Shoken because there's no corruption around him. There's no, I've got no reason to give him. He's very popular. You know, you're asking a lot. And Joe Biden's insisting that it happened. And then there's another phone call we're poroshenko says, I've got some good

news for you. You know, he's going to go and Joe says, that's fantastic. And then the prosecutor that's brought in afterwards who Joe Biden is on tape saying on a real tape, like not those phone recordings, but when he was speaking to a think tank in Washington, DC, he calls this new prosecutor that was brought in a guy called Yuri Litsenko as solid. Great. We've got a good solid guy in there now. Well, within a couple of months, Yuri Litsenko had closed all the investigations into

Perisma. Zlecchewski paid a fine, you know, poultry fine and was allowed to come back to Ukraine. So it worked. It was all wiped out. And I think what's important about that and sort of has been lost is that there was an entire kind of false media narrative seeded in Europe in America that was swallowed by the New York Times, Washington Post, and everyone, that it was Europe that wanted

Victor Shokun fired because he was corrupt. And in fact, even in testimony, people who knew better from the State Department said sort of conflated, I think deliberately, Victor Shokun with his corrupt, allegedly corrupt predecessor, Eurema, who presided over the prosecutor general's office when they took the bribe to let Zlecchewski off the hook remember in London. Shokun was brought in after Eurema was disgraced and fired, but he was sort of tired with that brush as if he was corrupt. When

anyone said, why is he corrupt? Oh, he, you know, took a bribe and got Zlecchewski off the hook. It's his fault that the serious fraud office investigation fell over. It was the opposite, it was the case. And I interviewed, so every story that you, you financial times, the Irish times, every story that you read it talks about the EU, the IMF, they all wanted Shokun this corrupt guy gone, but there's

always anonymous quotes. But there was one guy called Jan Tabit Tomabinsky, who was a Polish man who was the EU ambassador to Ukraine at the time. He's quoted on the record as an Irish time story and the headline of the story and the thrust of the story is that this guy, Jan Tabit Tomabinsky, welcomes the firing of this or the ousting of this corrupt prosecutor. But when I, his quotes don't actually say that. So when I call him up, or actually we discussed this on email

and asked him, did you actually push for the firing of Shokun? He said, no, not at all. That was not my business. I would never interfere at that micro level with Ukraine. That's, you know, there are sovereign nations. They can do what they like. No, my complaint was always that, that Ukraine, the prosecutor general's office, was taking so long to claw back the money from the Yanukovych Kroni's, like Zleczewski, who'd fled the country. And that was his call. But Shokun had only been

in the job 10 months. And in fact, he was the only guy who did manage to get some money back from the Yanukovych kleptocrats. So he was doing the right thing. And Tabitsky had a good relationship with him. So he didn't want him fired. So that whole House of Cards falls apart. And then there were other indications, like there was a European Union report into the sort of corruption-fighting measures that Shokun was taking. And he got a green light so much so that this

was only months before he was fired. He got a golden tick because Ukraine was allowed, one of the factors had to be corruption-fighting. It was allowed to join, I think the European visa program, Shinsen. So Ukraine had had satisfied one of those criteria which was corruption-fighting. And so they were happy with him. So he was getting a green light everywhere for what he was doing. And yet suddenly the narrative turns on a dime to satisfy, you know, to cover up what Joe Biden

was doing. The other interesting, just intriguing thing, I'll just cover briefly, is the CIA role with Berisma. Yeah, so this is, I wanted to ask you about this. I've got one question before we get there. Is the threat of Victor Shovin that he was perceived to be incorruptible? Is that why they wanted him out of this? Yeah, that's it. Because there was pressure before he was fired on Poroshenko, on Poroshenko was sort of saying to Shokin, listen, you know, this is too much trouble,

just leave it alone, according to Shokin. And Shokin was just going ahead, you know. He had other things he was doing. This wasn't his most important case. He was also trying to hear the maiden, massacre, you know, snipers, mysterious snipers killed protesters and so on. He was investigating that. He was trying to get the money back from the Yanukovych people. But Slochevsky and Berisma was part of his brief and he was just, as he tells me, just following the evidence as it went.

And so yeah, incorruptible, I guess. But even from the American point of view, yeah. So Mike Benz has a theory that Hunter was part of a CIA operation to swing gas, the gas market back towards NATO. Mike Benz, friend of the show and... Yeah, who I've talked to. You're a fan of yours. Yes. Yes. No, yes. We've talked to you. In fact, I thank him in the

acknowledgments. Yeah, in fact, I told him some information I had about the CIA involvement with Hunter and Devon and Berisma sort of off the record some time ago, which he was fascinated about. And then he sort of fed that into his own knowledge of this sort of deep state cabal. And also the geopolitical moves that the blob was pursuing with trying... I think absurd trying to win Europe off Russian gas. The blob being the American State Department. Well, the CIA,

the State Department, this triumvirate and the Pentagon. Right. And who protect Joe Biden. And so, yeah, so to make Ukraine the energy supply for Europe, which it's just if you look at how much gas Ukraine has compared to Russia is just impossible. The problem with the theory, I think, is more obvious still, is that if the CIA wanted to do something like that, surely Hunter Biden is like the last person you want involved in it, because he's such an utter, like degenerate live wire. Yeah.

That he's it's almost like you can't actually control him. He's so careless. But it's not really that the CIA wanted Hunter. It was that the CIA or the blob, let's not call it the CIA, the blob wanted Joe Biden. Joe Biden's their creature from Longback. And Joe Biden's quid pro quo is that Hunter gets a cut of the action. You know, his family gets a cut of the action in this corrupt country. And as protection for Hunter. So the reason that, you know, we think that Hunter's sort of protected

by the CIA and so on. I mean, partly it's obvious because the vice president's son, Crackerdict is ricocheting around the world in the inner sanctum of Putin, the inner sanctum of President Xi, all these crazy oligarchs and CCP, Maestro's, you know, maybe he's useful in terms of feeding information. And certainly what we do know is that before Hunter joined the Berisma board, he was given this really prestigious role on the board of a CIA cutout. It's the sort of democratic

wing of the National Endowment for Democracy. And which Mike Van's told me all about on this show. Good. Okay. So you know, you know, all of that. Fantastic. Right. Well, I mean, Hunter was very proud of this. He put it on his resume. It was on his Berisma resume. And it was a sign that he was a CIA protected guy, right, as well as being the vice president's son. So I don't know much more. All I do in the book is actually just loud evidence that I find. And I'm resisting drawing,

you know, making conclusions from it. But the points are all there, these points of light. And they do point in a direction. And so another piece of information was that Devon Archer told me was that, and again, secondhand, he got it from somebody else, but someone who knew was that this odious oligarch called Igor Kolomoiski, who is, you know, the paperwork shows that he's

actually the owner of Berisma. And that's Lachevsky's sort of his, his underling. And is the, the sort of perceived owner of Berisma, but really it's, it's Kolomoiski behind the scenes. Kolomoiski is this, he's like a James Bond villain. He used to keep a shark tank in his office with a shark and a button. And he would, when somebody came into his office, he wanted to intimidate he'd press a button and a bucket load of bloody charm would come into the water and the shark would

go into a frenzy. He's, he's, you know, renowned as a murderer and torture. People are terrified of him. He used to take over companies, basically steal them with, he'd bring a whole bunch of thugs in suits and baseball bats into the company and just take it over. He's involved with various, I mean, in fact, he's, I think he's currently in jail in Ukraine. He, he was the bankroller of Vladimir Zelensky. He owned the television station that Zelensky's comedy show was on. Zelensky

was his protege. When Zelensky was president, Kolomoiski was very happy to show himself as, you know, in photographs sitting around the cabinet table with Zelensky. I think pressure came to bear on Zelensky after the war to cut ties with Kolomoiski because it's a bad look. And so Kolomoiski gets wrapped up and arrested in a very public fashion. And I think still in jail for some murder that happened a while ago, his bodyguard was involved. His bodyguard also ended up dead.

So that's the kind of guy he is. Real thug. He ends up being the governor of an area on the Russian border where a lot of Ukrainian Russian speakers sort of Russia aligned Ukrainians after the maiden revolution decided that they didn't want to go along with this Eurocentric American controlled Ukraine that they wanted to break away and stay with Russia. And this was a problem for the Americans. And it was also the other problem was Putin invading

Crimea, which they hadn't really expected. And so Kolomoiski was made governor of that region. And he could do what the CIA could not do. All sorts of illegal things, torturing people, anybody, people would disappear. And he was very effective. I mean, there have been books written in Ukraine about how Kolomoiski single handedly saved Ukraine from Vladimir Putin or that part of

Ukraine anyway. And so what Devon Archer told me was that Kolomoiski used to periodically be whisked out of his house in his pajamas and put on a CIA plane and taken to parts unknown for a debriefing and then brought back. So, look, I don't know if that's true, but it's another example. Devon Archer also tells me that the CIA approached him and he was a business partner of Hunter, but they had another business partner called Chris Hines, the heir to the Hines ketchup fortune,

who met Hunter at Yale and Devon at Yale. And they started this company together. And Chris Hines was the step son of John Kerry. Is this Burnham, the company? No, Burnham, no, no, this company is called Rosemont Seneca. That's right. Yeah. Burnham was just something that Devon and Hunter were involved in. Chris Hines had left the company long ago. Soon as Berisma happened, soon as they started taking money from the Chinese, he was out of there. He's independently wealthy.

Doesn't need the brand damage. He warned them that it was really dangerous. And in fact, he wrote a public letter to his then stepfather, John Kerry laying out that he was not comfortable with this so that if anything came back to bite them, that he would be shown to have done the right thing. He stepped out of John Kerry. His stepfather, John Kerry. The John Kerry, Secretary of State under Obama. And you know, I mean, that's a whole nother rabbit hole that we could get into.

But Chris Hines, I think I do believe him that he wasn't involved with any of this. He doesn't need to. He doesn't need money whereas Hunter and Devon were desperate for money. And so what Devon Archie says is that the CIA approached him and Chris Hines twice on separate occasions to see if they would work for them. And there was one program where the CIA said, we will like pay for a guy to come and work for you who's basically a spy, one of our people. And he will

travel with you and do work for you. And so on, you don't have to do anything, but we will use him to be our spy. And Devon thought about it but decided it was too dangerous that, you know, if anyone found out he could end up dead. So so said no, thank you very much. But you know, the CIA, when I say this invisible hand, whenever the Biden's are in any kind of trouble, Hunter, in particular, this invisible hand comes in and sort of makes things go away when he was involved

with a particularly unsavory Chinese character. That guy just disappears. And then a new benefactor who's more of a clean skin gets brought in and the deal restarts. Always, there seem to be some very high level interference with in Hunter Biden's travels in China and wherever else he was. So I'd love to ask about China. You go into considerable detail into the

CEFC. Yeah. It's the Chinese conglomerate that Hunter is tied into. Now before talking about China, one thing that more explicitly than Ukraine is firstly China is an adversary of the United States more clearly than Ukraine, which is at the moment, obviously the America is a ally before in the last government, maybe it was more complicated. But China is an adversary. Yeah. Not only that, it is known that China have what is called the United Front, which is that all

people born in China have an obligation on the CCP to report new to them. IE, they're all spies. Not in a James Bond style spot. But in that they all have to inform they have an obligation to their nation to give that information back to them. So you know, thought that the vice president's son would know about that before getting into dealings with the Chinese. And yet he is pretty

deep in on the Chinese. So where do we start with the CEFC? I think to start with China, you need to go to December 2013 when Joe Biden as vice president flew on Air Force 2 to Beijing for some high level meetings with Xi Jinping and others. And he brought along Hunter Biden. And that was just such a signal to the Chinese that this was American power come to do private business. And Hunter Biden did his first Chinese deal a few days later. I got 10% of this Chinese equity company

that I think had like $200 million in management. I don't think that company is worth a huge amount of money, probably a few million dollars. That's what you can sort of ascertain from the sort of the companies that they bought themselves. But that was Joe Biden facilitating that Chinese deal. And is that illegal? Illegal? No. Technically, it's not. It can go to China. It gets a left with his dad. And plausible deniability that you know, Joe Biden is just a really good family man. He's had

many tragedies in his life. He's very close to his son. It brings along his granddaughter. You know, it's just a family affair. It's just pure coincidence that Joe Biden happened to meet have a cup of coffee and shake the hands of the Chinese business partner that was putting Hunter into this lucrative deal. Okay. So what's the deal then? It was a firm called BHR and Hunter Biden had 10% of it. Is that an energy phone? No, no, no. It's just a kind of private equity kind

of firm. They just buy bits and pieces of other companies. In fact, there was a scandal where they bought a company called Henagers, an American company that made vibration devices or something that can be used for military purposes. And so that had to be cleared by a body in America that clear sort of foreign investments in military related technologies. And John Kerry, who was then Secretary of State, was sort of on that board. And there was, you know, it was approved. So there

was some sort of scandal about that. But it never came to anything, you know, people made allegations, but no one could ever prove anything. So anyway, Henagers was, and then they also, for instance, bought Face Plus Plus, which was a facial recognition firm that the Chinese used to basically surveil the Uighurs. They are putting in concentration caps and so on, a minority in China. Muslim minority in Xinjiang, Western, yeah. Provinces of China. Yes. And they put them in concentration

caps and treat them badly. They're Muslims. And so anyway, and apart from that, they just bought technology companies and so on. And so Hunter really didn't have anything to do with any purchases that they did. He was just getting supposed to get money eventually have an ownership of this. And in fact, he and his partners were a bit miffed because the Chinese, they weren't getting any money from it. You know, all the money that they got was plowed back

into the firm. In the end, that was sort of Hunter's last asset that he had. And he, he transferred ownership to Kevin Morris, his sugar brother, perhaps as part payment for the $6 million plus that Kevin Morris lent him to Palf his taxes and pay his legal bills and live in that Malibu house. So BHR was that first gig, but the really lucrative Chinese deal was going to be

CFC, the energy company. And Hunter was approached. CFC is said to be run by Chinese military intelligence that the the guy who was the CEO of the CFC, he a chairman, Ye, Yee Jing Ming, a very unusual character. He was meant to be the white glove of a Chinese general in terms that he sort of made the money and passed the money on to this general. And the general tipped him into various

lucrative deals. And so Chairman Yee was a very handsome and sort of charming sort of slender Chinese man who came to New York and the all of New York society opened up for him. And he bought a $50 million penthouse on on 57th Street in Billionaires Row in a building called limestone Jesus. It's one of the most prestigious sort of a lot of foreign billionaires lived there. He had the penthouse there. And he was very interested in mining and dining luminaries in

Washington. So Hunter Biden was a really big scalp for him. And Hunter Biden was approached a couple of different ways by CFC. There was a father at his daughter's posh school in Washington DC where also President Obama's daughters went. A father there approached him. And then he was approached also by Chairman Yee. One way or the other, he got tied up with CFC and was looking to do a deal with them. That's where Tony Bobilinsky got involved and a couple of

other business partners. And what they were doing was using Joe Biden's name to open doors around the world for China because President Yee had this Belt and Road initiative, which is really the Chinese Communist Party's way of sort of bribing poorer countries, buying up their infrastructure, their airports, their ports and so on, trapping them in debt traps. And so that basically they control that, you know, it's his imperialistic ambitions, President Yee had controlled the world.

And of course it's in America's not in America's interest to assist with that. And, you know, by the time that the Biden's gone involved, the Belt and Road initiative was known about by America and Australia and Canada and so on, by the West. And it had developed a bad reputation. And a lot of these countries had seen other countries get caught up in these debt traps. And so it was

difficult, more difficult for the Chinese to make inroads. So they needed a powerful and well-respected American like Joe Biden to sort of be the frontman or Hunter Biden, the Joe Biden son. And so that's his use to them. And Hunter Biden was given a diamond by Chairman Yee that was appraised to $84,000. That was a sort of, Chairman Yee had a bunch of diamonds that used to give way to people. Because they're easier to carry across border lines right now to declare

them. Yeah. So they got $84,000. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's not cash. So that was just his party favors. And I think he had bigger diamonds for more important people. So Hunter and Jim Biden now is involved, Joe Biden's younger brother. They saw this as a wonderful opportunity for them finally to make it rich because they're sort of these bumbling, you know, small time crooks. They sort of always want to hit it big, but it's only a few million here, a few million there.

This was going to be a really big payday. I mean, they're looking at a couple of hundred million dollars from CFC, which they never got. But Gazelle bumbling fools really. But that's why they brought in Tony Bob Linzky, who was a businessman in his own right, very well respected, former, you know, Navy, Navy veteran. And he was brought in to sort of regularize their deal with CFC, which they were doing work for CFC while Joe Biden was vice president in the last year of his

vice presidency, going around the world, opening doors, stitching up deals. But the Bidens weren't paid and that that was the plan. They were only going to be paid after Joe Biden stepped down as vice president. And the plan was for Joe Biden to be part of this company that Hunter was going to open up Jim Biden, Joe Biden. There's an email where Hunter Biden has this office in Georgetown.

And he asks the managers of the building to cut some new keys and make a new name plate with his father's name and dual Biden's name and to get the keys for Jill and Joe and also for his CFC, you know, pals. Their name would also be on the door. And it would be called CFC, United States. Chairman Yee Mean Time is sort of doing a side deal with Hunter Biden. He's using Hunter Biden's contacts to get visas and so on because he's intending to defect from China, we believe.

He started to buy a whole lot of property here in the United States. And he's brought his wife, his two children, his nanny, his cook. I think his mother-in-law and he was going to bring his mother. He never end up doing that. And so he's doing this sort of side deal because what's happening in China is President Xi is starting to wind up people that he thinks are corrupt and are taking money out of the country. And he's cracking down, putting them in jail, getting them killed,

etc. And so I think Chairman Yee could see the writing on the wall. And so Joe Biden leaves office and then he meets, we think for the first time, with Hunter Biden's Chinese business partners at CFC. There's about 10 of them. They're in, I think the four seasons in Georgetown in a banquet room. And Joe Biden, this is in testimony, Hunter agrees. This happened, Hunter's former business partners who were there said it happened. It testified that this happened. Joe Biden comes by.

He's no longer Vice President. He's, you know, I think it's a couple of months since he's term ended. And he visits his son. He comes in, says hello, and then leaves. Right. He's only there for a short time. And so this is presented by Hunter and Jim Biden as completely above board. It's just Joe Biden, because he loves his son coming to visit him. Of course, he just couldn't visit him any other time other than when he's meeting with the Chinese. So that was the sort of sort of thing that you

can't really ping Joe Biden for it. You know, Joe Biden came, Joe Biden invited Hunter's business partners to his Vice Presidential Residence. Joe Biden introduces Hunter to the CCP. Top Boards in Beijing. He shakes hand with Hunter's business partner there. He goes to dinner in Georgetown with Hunter's business partners from Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, but and he's on the speaker phone with them all. But, but you know, you can't ping him for actually being involved and pulling the

strings. Yeah. And just if you were to defend Hunter at this point, you might be like, yeah, you might say just as you've said. And so that's what Hunter says. Hunter Biden has to be able to do business. He has to be able to work just because his partner is the Vice President. But to that, I respond with what I said earlier in this conversation, which is that what exactly are Hunter's skills? He's a crack addict on the run, a complete mess.

He's as you said earlier, and he was an average academically average, not particularly talented lawyer, even though he's qualified lawyer. So why exactly would they want him? What does he bring? What value does he add to this? Except connection, of course. And and of course Joe Biden arriving, that's all he has to do. He just has to show he's the principal. And that's how it works in all these kind of

shutdown operations, all these influence peddling operations. You know, the principal just has to show his face and show that he's available. So I'll give you like a counter example. Because I tend to think reading your book, the big guy and and this story having followed it for a while, I think that if Hunter Biden's surname was Trump, we'd never hear the end of this in the press. Yeah. Not just the debauchery, but also all of these dealings. Now to counter my own opinion,

there is the case of Jared Kushner, the banker Trump. Now Jared Kushner, within months of leaving White House, his new firm, I think it was called, is a bench capitalist firm called, I think it's called affinity, secured $2 billion worth of investment from MBS funds under banishment. Exactly. And the Saudi crown prince. And this was after Jared Kushner was involved in the Abrahamic courts and negotiating. And so leading the Abrahamic leading them exactly. And so, so yes, so I mean,

that's so wrong. I agree with you. Yeah. You don't think that what Jared Kushner, that deal is is not acceptable. No, and it shouldn't be allowed. I mean, there should be a cooling off period after all officials leave office that they can't do these kind of deals. I mean, it is slightly different to Hunter Biden because, you know, Hunter Biden was doing like the BHR deal while his father was vice president. But I mean, it's the same family of, you know, corrupt dealings or

allegedly corrupt dealings. Yeah. Election, then it is the case that Jared Kushner's firm has investment from the Saudi prince whilst his father in law is sitting president. Yeah. I think that is it is it not the same problem? It's it's in the same family of problems. I would argue, I mean, it's bad. Yeah. For sure. And it shouldn't be allowed. But it's it's a little too loud.

Well, it's not there's no law in the government. I mean, the sort of ethical standards that are expected in private enterprise are not applied to politicians in America, which is a huge problem. You know, if I mean, I was talking to someone who works for a bank the other day, he said, if I accepted $50 meal from a foreign national, I would have to go back and, you know, sign a million forms and explain it. Whereas, you know, Hunter Biden, the son of the vice president

can accept, you know, $23 million from CFC and none of it's declared. I think that will change. I think that's one of the good things that's come out of the Republican inquiries is that James Comas got a whole bunch of legislation. And I think it's approved of also by the Democrats that, that, you know, in future that a president or a vice president's family members, if they have to declare any investments, any money, any sort of deals that they do internationally,

any foreign money. So that's good. I mean, there really is a lax situation. I mean, just the the inside trading that goes on in Congress, all the politicians that need to be themselves. Once a week policies family. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not just Pelosi. I mean, it's Republicans as well. It's disgusting. So there is, you know, that is corruption and unethical conduct that goes on

in Washington, DC. And, you know, I think with the difference between the Jared Kushner situation and the Biden family situation is that with the Biden's, this pattern of sort of graft and griffed that was going on while Joe Biden was vice president, the, you know, the, the BHR firm was created while he was vice president, that Joe Biden was ushering his son around to meet all these oligarchs and, and sort of CCP higher ups. And that he was actively involved in,

Trump was doing that as well. Well, but Jared Kushner worked for Trump. So, you know what I mean, like, Joe and Jared Kushner was not taking a salary. So I'm not excusing what he did. I'm in, I think it was terrible. But I think in terms of a sort of a, what do you think was, because I don't think, I don't personally think it was terrible that Jared Kushner was employed to do, to take out of the eight. Well, I don't know. I don't think he did a great job. Yeah.

Incredible. Yeah. I just think he did the wrong thing by caching in after Trump's presidency left. I ended, you know, I mean, it's the same thing as when you have this revolving door between the sort of weapons manufacturers and the Pentagon. It's just wrong. And Jared Kushner would never have been able to do that deal if he hadn't been Trump's son-in-law and been, you know, met the Saudis and, you know, been put in that position where he could cash in. And I do

think it's wrong. You know, you can't stop him from doing business altogether, but they should have been in like a year or two calling off period after the Trump presidency. I do think that's wrong. But again, it's a single discreet deal after Trump left. It's not this pattern of influence peddling with several countries and several shady characters around the world. And this is also funds under management. So it's not that Jared Kushner was given $200 billion. He now,

just as BHR, he has a percentage of this company that has $200 billion funds under management. So he'll get money from, you know, the spin-off that comes from that just as Hunter Biden was going to do with BHR. But the CFC deal, the Ukraine deal, are completely different. CFC was just cash. It was just cash, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I want to come eventually to how it's all covered up.

Because actually so far, it's kind of odd that it's somewhat odd that it's covered up because, as you said, right at the beginning, Joe Biden himself hasn't technically definitely 100% done something illegal. It seems like there's that we know. That we know. Yeah, it seems like it's maybe something that's going going on. But it's still somewhat nebulous, right? Yeah. I do think they cover up the biggest story. I mean, the cover up isn't bad, but it's as old as

Washington itself. It happens on both sides. It's the cover up. I think that's the most dangerous. And that also has implications into the future because the same people covering up for Joe Biden, other ones propping up Kamala Harris. Yeah. Okay. So let's get to cover up. Before we do, can you just can we briefly on Romania and Kazakhstan? Okay. Those two dealings. I appreciate you haven't got that much time. So just so we get a sense of of those two. Romania was a deal where

there was a Romanian oligarch billionaire called Gabriel Popovicu. He was in trouble. There was some corruption deal, a land deal. He was being investigated and was probably going to go to jail with the Romanian authorities. And so Hunter Biden was approached to help Popovicu get out of this problem. Joe Biden during this time met the leader of Romania. They were all good friends. So obviously Joe Biden was an important person in Romania. Oh, yes, this is. Oh, God.

Is this whilst he's vice president? Oh, yeah. Okay. Like 2014, 15, not quite sure. And so Hunter was paid a monthly stipend by Popovicu through his, he was never paid directly. And the money went through in this case to Rob Walker, one of his business partners, who then passalled it out, a couple of million dollars, and passworded it out to Hunter, also to Halle Biden, Hunter's lover, sister and widowed sister and law turned lover and a few other family

members got money as well. Rob Walker was just told who to pass all the money out to. And this is all documented, you know, it's a bit under Rob Walker's test if I was interviewed by the FBI. We have that transcript. So that was pretty much Romania. I mean, Popovicu, in the end, Hunter didn't help him as soon as Joe Biden ceased to be vice president. The money stopped from Popovicu. In the end, actually, he did somehow get off, but it wasn't through Hunter

Biden helping. You know, I mean, a lot of these things, I wonder how helpful Hunter really was. He, in a way, the grift was to give the impression that Joe was going to help, and Joe would show up, and he'd shake hands, and he'd, he'd, he'd, uh, glad hand. But whether or not he actually did anything, we don't know. And it was more, uh, as Devon Archer said, the illusion of power and influence. That's why the Ukraine story was so important, because that was a case where Joe Biden

did intervene. There was a serious quid pro quo, and that's why the cover up was so intense around that particular incident. And Kazakhstan. Oh, Kazakhstan, what was that? That was, um, oh, there's so many of them. So there were, there was a guy called Mazemov, who was the prime minister of Kazakhstan, and his bodyguard, they came to a dinner at Cafe Milano that Joe Biden was at. I'm Devon and Hunter were trying to make some money. They tried to get CFC involved with Kazakhstan,

because there's a lot of untapped, um, sort of energy reserves there. And Devon's got some fantastic stories. I mean, I decided not to go down that rabbit hole, because there wasn't so much Biden, um, involvement, but he's got some fantastic stories about sort of riding on camels into the, the deep reaches of Kazakhstan, I don't know if they were camels, but, um, and sort of setting up gas wells and doing exploration, so on. In the end, they didn't make much money out of that, and the,

the Mazemov ended up going to jail. I think he's in currently in jail. You find that with a lot of the people that Hunter did business with, they either end up dead missing or in jail. Wow. Okay, so let's look at the cover up. Yeah. Now you do, you do a whole chapter on the Twitter files, what that exposed on this show. We've done a lot of that. Nice respect viewers. We're very familiar with that. Right. And you do, actually, you, you retell it very beautifully in, I really

enjoyed that aspect of that chapter in, in your book. Um, but there's, there's, throughout this conversation, you've alluded, we've talked about the invisible hand. Yeah. I'm interested in the motivations behind it, what's going on. And as you said, that same invisible, yeah, spirit, yes, is now defending Kamala Harris, vice president and presidential nominee, very much working against president Trump. How do you put this altogether? What do you make of the cover up?

And so I think what has happened is that Donald Trump is uncontrollable. And that's why he's regarded as an existential threat. We're told he's an existential threat to democracy, to America. I mean, he was president for four years. Um, he actually performed pretty well. And certainly,

geopolitically, certainly, amazingly. I mean, because, because he's not controlled by the blob, because he's not following their agenda, um, you see what happens when their agenda is followed with what's happened under Biden and the world is on fire, Afghanistan withdrawal was completely botched. Um, under Donald Trump, he just treats everything in first principles. He just uses common sense. Every problem is there to be fixed in the most efficient manner possible. He just acts

like he did when he was a property developer in Queens. He really doesn't know what he doesn't know. And it seemed to work. And he also, you know, the gangsters around the world, and they are gangsters, whereas whether it's Putin or Kim Jong Un or President Xi, um, he treated them like a gangster would. Uh, he knows about gangsters from his time in the property development business in New York. It's a pretty cutthroat place. And so, um, they respected and feared him. And what happened

with him was that Iran was on its knees. It was broke. It didn't have the resources to pour into the proxies that attacked, um, Israel last October six, October seven. Um, uh, Putin was in his box. He didn't invade Ukraine. He didn't invade Crimea as he did under Joe Biden and Berrako Barma. Um, Kim Jong Un was in his box. Uh, Berrako Barma told Donald Trump when he came into office that the biggest problem facing America was North Korea, which was detonating all these

nuclear missiles and during these nuclear tests. And, uh, and, you know, Donald Trump was mocked mercilessly for, um, you know, these little rocket man bro man's, um, but it worked, you know, that Kim Jong Un was under control. Um, ISIS was vanquished. Uh, if you remember when a Donald Trump came to office, we were seeing the most horrific torture and murder and beheadings of Americans and, um, the, the Jordanian pilot in an orange jumpsuit. I'll never forget. In a cage,

I've set on fire. Another one, I dunked into a swimming pool. You know, they were finding all these ingenious ways to terrorize the world. Um, and, um, somehow Donald Trump managed to, uh, quill that vanquished ISIS for a time anyway. Um, and so, um, things were working and he was tough on China, uh, all the tariffs and so on. Um, and, but he wasn't following the agenda of the blob

and it seems to me, I mean, we don't really know who they are. They haven't written down their project, uh, their agenda, but you can see what their agenda is from the way that Barra Khabarma, uh, Joe Biden and soon if she wins camel Harris, they conduct foreign affairs. And that is that, uh, China is not a problem that Russia is an existential threat. Not that China's

not a problem, but China's not the biggest problem that Russia is a big problem. And, um, as Mike Benz has told you that there's this sort of energy play trying to get Europe off the teeth of

Russian energy. Um, so, uh, that's why Joe Biden blurted out, um, that he wanted to put regime change in Russia at one point that was cleaned up by, um, Anthony Blinken and, and uh, Joe Starfaz, but, um, presumably with his cognitive decline, he'd heard something around the table and, um, and just couldn't, couldn't, it didn't have the filters operating to not blurt it out in public. Um, and so, uh, the Ukraine war, I think Donald Trump's quite right that that never would have

happened. Putin never would have invaded, um, if Trump had won the election. Um, and I, and, you know, it's a proxy war that America is waging against Russia. And which is not in America, in America's best interests. It's not what most Americans want. Um, and, uh, It's expensive. A little, well, how does a thousand people die? Yeah. And also it's, uh, you

know, we, it's threatening nuclear war. I mean, Russia is a nuclear power. Putin has saying that if you encroach, if you're shooting missiles into Russia is American, uh, missiles, um, that's what's happening. That's what Ukraine is doing. Um, and so I think that's why Donald Trump is an existential threat to the power, to the blob, to their power because he doesn't take orders from them. And he does his own thing. And, um, there have been two, uh, assassination

attempts already. And I just think that, um, this will continue because they cannot allow him to take office again, because he'll be even more lethal to their power than he was the first time, because he really didn't know what was going on. We were all innocent back in 2020. We knew there was a deep state, but we didn't realize how deep it went and how far they would go to

protect their power. Mm hmm. There's a big, interesting shift that we're seeing where a lot, and Trump is now getting the support of a load of a lot of old Democrats, um, RFK Jr., a famous example, Tosy Gabbard, Elon Musk. Trump himself was supposed to put Democrats for seemingly most of his life. And they, and they're kind of anti-Nearcon, and whereas the Neocons, including Dick Cheney and his, and George W. Bush, yeah, well, George W.

was AIDS at least, uh, all backing, Kamala. Yeah. And so you have this huge, when it comes to geopolitics, there's a complete reject of how reverse or the party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Flip and how the parties represented, uh, uh, supported. And so you think that that ties into the, that's part of the cover-up. It's a great realignment there. Yes. Because the biggest threat to the blob is

populism. And that's what Donald Trump and his mega movement represents JD Vance, um, Victor Orban, uh, in Hungary, um, these sort of populist movements that are bubbling up, mostly as a, in Europe, mostly as a, um, a reaction to, um, unchecked illegal migration. Um, so I mean, it's the same, I think, in America. And the rejection of, um, the sort of uniparty, uh,

going along to get along agenda, um, was signified by Trump's election. And, um, um, and I think he's more of a symbol of this populist movement that we're seeing around the west. And it really is a rejection of the sort of corrupt, um, elites, whatever you want to call them, who have, um, a massed power to themselves, um, completely anti-democratic and have their own, um, sort of opaque agenda, um, uh, you know, I don't know why you would want to provoke Russia

by, um, enlarging NATO right up until its borders. Um, when Putin has specifically said, don't do that, we will regard that as an existential threat to, to us and to our sovereignty. Why you would continue to provoke Russia like that, I don't know. It's got, it's like an unreconstructed near-convue from before the Iraq war, whereas that maybe, maybe this, the Iraq war that was the shift, it seems that perhaps the, the, the res- feeling that, that was wrong to invade Iraq, or that

was, was maybe the turning point. What do you, do you? Yeah. And also, I think 9-11, um, I mean, remember Jane Fonda, when the COVID-19 pandemic started, um, said, uh, in an interview, she said, COVID-19 is God's gift to the left. And I think in a way 9-11 was that as well, at least not to

the left, but to the, to what Michael Schellenberger calls the censorship industrial complex. It allowed, you know, a whole lot of, we allowed, a whole lot of sort of civil liberties and safety barriers to be broken, because there was this threat of terrorism, you know, torture, a whole lot of things that Americans, sort of stood against were allowed, and also spying on American citizens, rounding

up Muslims who were seen as terrorists. I mean, some, some, some real, really unfair, terribly unjust things were done in the name of the war on terror, domestically. So a lot of the tools that the, until the US, that the blob, that the CIA was using against foreigners were turned in on American itself. And that included surveillance. And, um, and we sort of let it happen because everyone was

terrified about another 9-11, they were terrified about Islamist terrorism. Um, and, and so, like frogs in boiling water, we sort of didn't realize that the greater threat was ourselves, was allowing such power to be amassed by these shadowy, unaccountable faceless people, um, who, whose intentions we don't really fully understand, but that have to be maligned because you just look at the consequences, um, and how disastrous it's been for America. I mean, the unchecked

illegal migration under Biden. So just on the cover up, it's, it's not entirely clear to me why they're still covering up for, um, Biden. And I'll give you the example is the mayor of New York. Yeah, who is it? Democrat, Eric Adams. Um, and the democratic establishment have completely turned it on him. Yeah. Now, this is because it's alleged that he's been, he's corrupted and, and I had

taken various money when he shouldn't have, which it might say about the president. Uh, uh, but they've turned on him and what's notable about him is that he has spoken out against Democrats, talking points, a couple of points when, when, well, illegal migration, illegal migration, yeah, migration, notably. So the Democrats have shown examples where they're prepared to turn on their own, so it speaks. So why would they continue to protect the president now? You

might say it's because he's the president. No, no, it's because he never turned against the, they're, they're at all. He did everything that they wanted him to do. Um, what Eric Adams big mistake was to, um, well, last year he flew to New York, he was going to confront Joe Biden about the illegal migration crisis in, in New York. Um, you know, the, the, the shelters were overwhelmed, the hotels that were being set aside were overwhelmed. So he was going to go to

Joe Biden. I mean, really, all Eric Adams wanted was more money to cope with it because New York's a sanctuary city and there's nothing he could do about that. He said, but, um, he, he had to turn around, um, once he got to Washington, never meet with Biden because, uh, the FBI basically rated his office and they seized his devices. So, um, he, Eric Adams himself attributes the, um, investigation of him. I mean, he could be, I mean, he is self-serving, obviously,

uh, to his going against, um, the sort of Biden people, um, on illegal migration. He spoke out of turn, no other, uh, Democrat mayor in the big cities that have been inundated with illegal migrants has spoken out at all. They've just gone along with it. So, um, Eric Adams is, is, is, he's doing a Trump really? He's saying that he stepped outside the bounds. He went against the Democratic Party. So they've sicked, uh, the, the FBI and the Southern District of New York on him.

And sure enough, if you sick, you know, you sick the, uh, the FBI on him, they look for dirt, there was dirt. Um, I mean, it's bad. I'm not going to exonerate him. No, I, you know, this, if they want to, the problem with this is I'm all for them, uh, wrapping up Eric Adams because he took, um, you know, flight upgrades from Turkey and, um, expedited a, uh, you know, a fire, inspection of a, a consulate that the Turks wanted to open up in New York before uh,

Erdogan was coming for a visit. You know, that's all, that's all wrong. Um, but it pales into insignificance alongside what we've uncovered about Joe Biden and Hunter Biden. And so, um, it's the selective prosecution that I find, um, and that Americans find so egregious. You know, if you're going to be hard and tough and, and have, have zero tolerance for corruption, then do

it across the board. Don't just select people, um, that are your political opponents like Donald Trump, don't just select people who, in your own fold, who you have to make an example of and really bring down the hammer on because otherwise there might be other Democrat mayors or other Democrats who think that, oh, well, I can step outside and speak against, um, you know, the establishment, uh, speak against my party and get away with it. So he's being made an example of, yeah.

What is also peculiar is that it's not just the, the establishment, so to speak, it's how the media, you, we talk, you talk about big tech and social media, but also media and maybe a lot of the population of America are supportive of, or rather have no interest in this. I'll try and make myself clearer. Eric Weinstein has a theory called anti-interesting. It's not that something's

not interesting. It's that it's unbelievably interesting and important. And the only way to keep it down is to basically make, actively work to make it uninterested, like not interesting. Right. This should be, as I said earlier, if it was a Trump, this would be everywhere all the time we'd never hear the end of it. But it's not. It's a Biden. And it's a rip-roaring story by itself. That's the lack of curiosity in the media is incredible. And that's a Weinstein's theory is very clever.

Yeah. So there's a personal example I have, which is that I wrote a Christmas song called Rudolph's Laptop. Right. I think it was Christmas 22, or maybe 22, and put it out. And it's about Rudolph's Laptop, ruining Christmas for Santa. And because it had all these revealing staff and drugs, a bit of porn. And the music press covering it didn't get the joke at all. But that's kind of understandable. They're totally progressive. But they also went on stage to see this in

consequence of sound. I forget which exactly, which publications, but it's those type of publications. Try and say maybe I can't remember exactly. And they say that the laptop is not real. It's not even, this is a fake song about a fake laptop that's not even real in real life. Right. It's like they don't, and so I got a glimpse into basically progressive media is they don't, they're not even prepared to

engage in this. Now we know Hunter has fairly any charges based on where the laptop itself was used in court. So we know now that it's real, but so peculiar this disinterest in you would, you would think in media that this is exactly what you want. This is a story, like journalist, from your point of view, it's been fantastic, right? Because there's no, you haven't had the competition exactly over this. I know. It's just a double-edged sword, but yeah.

It's a double-edged sword, because it's for the state of the world, it's a double-edged sword. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you, is that, what do you make of that of the lack of interest? And not just the media, but half of America in pursuing this? Or am I wrong? I mean, after all, the president has come out on truth and said congratulations to you. The former president? Yes, Trump. The former president and presidential nominee, Trump, as said congratulations.

Are you finding popularity and support from the other half of America? Oh, yes. But I mean, that's the polarization in America. And it's driven a lot by the media because half of America reads The New York Times, what you're seeing in MSNBC, and they're getting a completely different version of the truth from what the other half, the conservative half, the Trump supporting, or even just the Republican half, the Fox News viewing, New York Post reading, half the country.

And I would argue, I'm being self-serving, but I think that if you're a conservative at the moment, that you are aware of both sides, because you can't help. The dominant narrative is coming from the establishment media. The New York Times dictates the agenda of newsrooms all over the world. Its view of America is what is seen in Australia. I presume the UK and the rest of Europe. It's the New York Times view of Trump and so on. And so I think that conservatives

are aware of what is on MSNBC and CNN. They're outraged by what they see as propaganda and lies, and also just a complete ignoring of the nefarious activity of Democrats. Democrats are blind. The viewers and the readers of Democrat aligned media. They only see the propaganda that they're given. They don't really see the world as it is. They don't see America as it is. And I think therefore that they're at a disadvantage, ultimately. They have

to be. If you don't really have a grasp on reality, it's going to be a problem for you. I mean, that's how you descend into madness. I don't know how you can explain the media. It wasn't like that when I went to journalism school at American journalism school in Chicago and North Western. We were just taught the basics, who, what, why, where, when? Just do journalism. And you get a great story. And curiosity is the number one attribute should be of a journalist.

And somehow that's been perverted. And it's become political. You know, you will ignore a story because it doesn't help your side of politics. You have a side of politics. And that's what happened, I think, with our story. And to be fair to the media in October of 2020, it's three weeks before the election. It's a dangerous story. It's very damaging to Joe Biden. It's got hairs on it because Rudy Giuliani is the source. And by that stage, he'd been thoroughly

discredited. Donald Trump had been demonized and discredited, right? And they'd been that case of Hillary Clinton four years before, right? There'd been just before the election, there was some sort of a... Yeah, her emails. There was a hat. There was an email hack to do with WikiLeaks. And so there was a sense that they didn't want to be the ones who were responses before.

And Trump winning again. That's right. And Hillary Clinton blames the then FBI director James Coney for coming out and announcing an investigation again into emails just before the election on her losing. So it may have shifted the dial, in fact. So, yeah, so there was that. But also, there was the case that there was a very clever operation that was conducted by the FBI, the CIA, and the Biden campaign in concert. And so you know about

the Twitter files. And where we sag into the Twitter files, the Twitter files was is part of the Jigsaw puzzle, the laptops part of the Jigsaw puzzle, the whistleblowers are another part, the investigations by Republicans in the House is another part. You put it all together, and you see a pretty strong pattern emerge of pre-bunking our story before it even saw the light of day. The FBI was meeting with Big Tech, you know, Twitter and Facebook basically, weekly before the

election. And we know from Joel Roth who was Twitter's chief censor, and Zuckerberg's kind of come out, he hasn't quite said it in so many words, but recently he's sort of apologized for Facebook's role in censoring our story. But Joel Roth, Twitter's chief censor, in a sworn statement in a separate case, has said that in one of these FBI meetings that he was told to expect to hack and dump operation, hack and leak operation from Russia, likely in October,

likely involving Hunter Biden. And so of course, is this the Aspen Institute that? No, that was separate. The Aspen Institute is another op. There was another pre-bunking op, which I learned from you, yes, on the book, which is that they basically played out a whole scenario. Incredible. Where there would be some sort of laptop leak. Yeah. And Michael Schellenberger discovered that through the Twitter files. And yeah, so there was pre-bunking going

on all over the place. The Aspen Institute tabletop exercise, they invited, you know, top reporters from the New York Times, sort of national security reporters and Washington Post, etc. to come and do this tabletop exercise that involved Hunter Biden. This was six weeks before the 2020 election, before our story came out. Hunter Biden, Berisma, it was incredible. It mirrored our stories. And how did they not? Well, they knew the FBI knew because they, when John

Paul MacEyzek had the laptop got scared about material on it, called up the FBI. Finally, they came to December 2019 with the Aspener and they seized it, as I said. So they knew that the laptop was there. They were also spying on Rudy Giuliani. So they knew that it was going to happen. They would have got intercepted a message from me, a couple of messages with Rudy Giuliani saying, don't give the story to anyone else. We are interested. So, you know, they were, they were,

they were ready for us. They knew this story might come out before the election. And if it did, they had to be ready. So censoring our story sent a message to the rest of the media. That this is a dirty story. This is a story that you don't want to touch with a 10-foot pole. And maybe the rest of the media might have followed up if it hadn't been for the dirty 51

letter a few days later. And the, you know, there were five former CIA directors or acting directors, like John Brennan Leon Panetta, who put their impromader on that, who signed that letter. And that just killed our story stone dead because, you know, if you're at the New York Times and you see that these people who were very important and trusted senior CIA directors, if they have said it's Russian disinformation, then it must be. And so we're not going to touch it

with a 10-foot pole. So I kind of give them a bit of a pass that, you know, they were in curious. It suited them not to follow the story. If it was Trump, they would have followed it come hell or high water. But they sort of, you know, there was enough interference put in their way. And it was a stressful enough time. They didn't want to be blamed again for Trump winning. So they just went

out. I've said that. And as you said earlier in this conversation of all of the scandals here, the greatest scandal is the collusion between big tech and big government, which by the way, we have a word for that. In covering this story or any part or trying to kill the story, that's just absolutely successful. Well, they were successful because that letter was used by Joe Biden in that last debate with Donald Trump. And he got off the hook. And he's...

And it was so marginal how much that election was won by that it had the American population known about this story. It could very easily have... Well, polls show that. Yeah, there were a few

thousand votes in a handful of states. And there are polls that were done afterwards that if Biden voters had known about the corruption that was exposed on the laptop or our stories, which, you know, it just showed that Joe Biden had lied when he said he knew nothing about his sons overseas business dealings because there are emails they're showing that he had met with hunters. No, yeah. Our first story, you know, business partner from Ukraine. He lied and he lied and he lied

and he lied. And it would have damaged him even though we didn't know half of what we know now, it still would have hurt him because he would have come across as a liar. And those Biden voters said that they would have changed their vote and that would have been enough to alter the outcome of this very tight election. So it worked. It was a domestic election interference operation by the CIA and the FBI. And it was the CIA because that letter was signed off by Gina Haspel who was

then CIA director under Donald Trump. It was seen as being because just the dirty 51 had to submit that letter to the pre publication review board of the CIA. And the people who run that realized the political nature of it that they needed to send it upstairs. They did that. And it eventually found its way to Gina Haspel's desk. We know that because the chief operating officer of the CIA, a guy called Andrew McCreedis had to testify behind closed doors to House investigators.

He said he walked it across the corridor to Gina Haspel. So that was approved by the CIA director. And as well, we now find out they're not just retired CIA officials. They were actually, they might be retired, but they were actively on contract with the CIA. So I just call it a CIA op. And then the the censoring of our story with Big Tech was the FBI op. Absolutely astonishing. Miranda Devine, congratulations on the launch of your book. I wish you

great success with it. It's there's so many stories all in one to bring it all together. It just shows great talent as a journalist. I really think this is one of the greatest journalistic pieces of work. Certainly since the Twitter files. I wish you all the best of it. Congratulations. Thank you. And thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me and to go for it. I recommend to listeners that they get this book. And I need to read this one, laptop from hell. But it

have there's even more in these books here in this book, even more detail. And it's utterly bewildering how big this story is and how few people know about it. Well done. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to The Winston Marshall show with me. Winston Marshall, if you enjoyed that show, if you enjoyed hearing from Miranda Devine, if you want to hear more deep dives into the issues, the mainstream media are missing and ignoring

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