Hello, my name is Will Spencer and welcome to the Will Spencer Podcast. This is a weekly show featuring in depth conversations with authors, leaders and influencers who help us understand our changing world. New episodes release every Friday. I walked into the Fight Laugh Feast conference a couple weeks ago with modest expectations and found myself surprised by the depth of conversation and connections waiting to happen.
What started as a simple podcast booth to advertise the new Will Spencer Podcast became an opportunity to connect with some remarkable and unexpected individuals. The conference brought together a mix of reformed thinkers, artists and entrepreneurs, each with a unique perspective to share. And over the next three episodes, I'll be introducing you to the seven men I talked to.
First up, Isaac Botkin, a decentralization advocate and co owner of T Rex Arms, who offers a nuanced look at technology and systems. Alongside him, Logan Reiser from Crux Art, a second generation glassblower who creates impressive sculptures turning glass into art that reaches up to 50ft. Episode two, planned for next week, features none other than Pastor James White from Alpha and Omega Ministries, joined by a surprise special guest, makes a hysterical cameo.
We'll also hear from Jim Hunter of Alps Precious Metals Group, who brings insights from his background in the finance industry. Our final episode will feature Parker Brown from the Watch well podcast, discussing the intersection of films and faith. You'll also hear from the Borman father and son duo, Samuel, a farmer and missionary who's working with a native tribe in Mexico, and his son Andrew, who's written a children's book exploring, get this, Christianity and Transhumanism.
A very impressive young man. I can't wait for you to hear from. Each conversation offers a different lens on faith, creativity and human experience. These aren't just interviews, they're windows into different perspectives and ways of thinking. So I hope you'll join me for what promises to be an interesting series. And thanks to Fight Laugh Feast for making it all possible. Now look, this show isn't just another podcast.
This is a movement to rebuild the foundations of Western Christian culture and you play a critical role. Here's how you can be part of this mission. First, leave a five star rating on Spotify and Apple podcasts. But don't just click stars. Write an actual review. Tell people why these conversations matter, and share your favorite episodes. Not just because I want more listeners, but because these ideas can transform lives and communities.
Every episode you share is a blow against the cultural decay we're fighting. If you want to go deeper, you can become a paid [email protected]. there you'll get ad free interviews and exclusive content that goes beyond what we put out publicly. But here's the most important thing. Support our advertisers. When you buy from Christian businesses, you're not just making a purchase. You're helping build multigenerational wealth that can restore our cultural foundations.
This isn't just consumption. This is spiritual warfare through economics. And please welcome this week's guests for part one of my three part Fight Laugh Feast series from Crux Glass, Logan Reiser. And from T. Rex Arms, Isaac Bodkin. So, Logan, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for sitting down to chat with me today. No doubt. Yeah, thanks for having me on. This conference is legit. You having a good time? Oh, yeah, you know it. So we started talking last night at the.
I guess it's the after party, though the conference had just started. You can't really have an afterparty anyway. Gabe likes to have the parties early and often. Right, exactly. The pre after party, for sure. And so you were telling me about. All the exciting stuff that you're doing with glass blowing and glass artistic creation. Why don't you share some of those?
Because that's absolutely one of the coolest things I've heard about for a while and very enthusiastic to hear about men doing, you know, taking their skills, taking artistic skills and putting them into service for the kingdom today. Right, yeah. So it all started 10 years ago. I actually left college to start a company with my dad and fell in love with the artwork very quickly. I did it a handful of times when I was growing up as a kid, but got absolutely consumed with the process.
So we're talking about 2000° liquid glass. 2000° liquid glass, yes. Yeah. And we work out of a very large furnace that holds 400 pounds of glass that has to be hot 24 7. Oh, okay. Yep. So we. What's it heated with? Natural gas. So you can go either way, but we go natural gas for a number of reasons, for sure. So I ended up going to a number of art fairs right off the bat in the beginning and was heavily convicted of the culture behind that scene.
Yeah, I mean it was actually up in Chicago at Sofa and you know, there are a ton of amazing craftsmen up there in that sphere, but also those with an agenda that. That wasn't bringing glory to Christ. Yeah, we talked about some of those last night, but yeah. And graphic forms of art, let's say. Yeah, for sure. And I actually one of the first bigger projects that I started when I was doing this full time was I was trying to make a larger oak tree. Define wouldn't say larger oak tree. 30Ft tall.
That would be a large oak. Wait, you're making out of glass? Yes, yes. That started off. Yeah. So that started off with making parts of the trunk and making these larger green platters for the leaves and platters. Yeah. So these are spun out glass platters. So if you would imagine a bowl on the end of like a larger. A larger stick. You have to get that hot and spin it flat with centrifugal force. Yes, Yep. So then you have to blow the. Glass, like arm to hold the weight of.
That's not how a tree works. A leaf is relatively light compared to the branch. You got to go with big leaves if you're doing a 30 foot tree. Yes, yes, for sure. So crazy process with that. But I got very consumed with how to make a wood grain out of glass. Okay. So chased that. And then it kind of dawned on me. I felt like the Holy Spirit was pushing me to figure out how to make a cross.
So I was thinking about how there was a wood grain and all these beautiful crosses that I would have admired for years and kind of took that and ran with it. Within about a calendar year, I made my first cross sculpture that was completely made out of clear glass. So this was eight feet tall, roughly 100 pounds. But if anything, it's almost two foot glass blocks that are assembled with. So the whole thing could actually stand on its own without any epoxy or adhesion and whatnot.
So there's gravity blocks were stacked on. Each other and fused together. Yes. Ok. So it's a very specific fusing process. It's a NASA grade epoxy. So this is done outside of the hot process. So you can either. So you actually, you can actually see the blocks fused together. It's not one seamless. You try to get as close as you can. Of course. Of course. Yeah, for sure. But you'd still be able to see the lines. Okay. That's when we were talking last night. That's what I was trying to figure out.
Like, is it one? Because you explained that you did it in sections. I was like, how does he get that to be like, apparently one smooth piece. This makes more sense. Yep. So, and I know we were talking. This is a very specific cast iron mold that was milled out. Yes. And we have to use an air compressor for how big each vessel is or each block is. I was getting close to passing out on the top of the stairs, trying to work with these larger molds. So we went to the air compressor.
So. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The heat, plus the lack of oxygen, you can find yourself in sticky situations for sure. Yeah, no doubt. You don't want to die on the cross. Geez, man. Only one. That's right. Yeah. So I started creating these other sculptures, but then I really got into working with scripture and sandblasting with the glass and working with. I'm doing the weave here, so I'm tying in from the glass tree. Do the weave. It's the best. It's the best.
So with the leaves, these green platters that I had, if you have the right light. So there's something called the magic hour. Right around sunset, that beautiful soft light comes through a window, and that light can create a beautiful refraction. So not a shadow, but a refraction through the glass onto a surface. Yes. So my goal was trying to illuminate scripture through glass. Okay. Yep. So worked on sandblasting and a lot of really cool, groundbreaking technologies with that.
And then that was when I made the first cross with scripture, and that contained the entire gospel of Mark. So every word. That's a lot. Your handwriting with a little tool. No, it's not a dremel tool. That would have took 1200 hours. I was going to say. How did you get the scripture out? There's a very specific technology that you can apply stencils to the glass and then sandblast it past that. So, sorry, is it, like, pasted on or. It's a stencil, and you spray over it. So it's.
Yeah. A very specific film that you can burn with an LED light that has an adhesion on the back of it. Okay, got it. It involves, like, pressure washing and really specific pressure. And then sometimes the stencil doesn't stick, so you have to rip that one off, print a whole other one, print it on again, and then you get to the point that, you know, is it going to hold up during the high pressure sandblasting? Sure. Sometimes the stencil doesn't work out.
You have to start completely over on a totally new piece. Creative process. Yes, for sure. So that was a very ambitious first project. I learned a lot. I got my butt kicked, for sure. You sound like an ambitious guy, frankly, like the projects that you describe, it was like, this is some other level. Yeah, I have broken a lot of glass, for sure. Let's go with that. Yes. So then I went down to Knoxville.
Gabe invited me down there for the Fight Laugh Beast conference, And he was extremely Generous in saying that artists could come for free, have a free booth. I was even able to bring my buddy Jimmy. And we were just trekking through the hills of Tennessee on the way down to Knoxville with a very full hatchback of glass. So just packed to the brim. It was a good drive. Smoked some cigars. It was good.
Okay. But yeah, we went down there and it was actually listening to Toby Sumpter down there that I had this idea of trying to illuminate scripture through the glass and later made a flat glass. Because if there's too many panes of glass, you're not going to get a clean refraction. So it has to be somewhat flat to be able to push the light through and get definition for that look. Okay. So that's when I made a. It's a ten foot blue cross that's inspired by the seven signs from John.
Okay. So I went with all the references to water there, so that's why I went with blue. But that was sandblasted and fire polished, so you have to do all the sandblasting, but then you have that chalky residue look. You go back into the 2000 degree furnace and fire polish those panels so that the light can completely go through the glass. Okay. So tying that together, there was also a larger cross that had the Narsel sword from the Lord of the Rings. Okay. And it was the joy of the Lord.
He was talking about how he wields that as his weapon. Right. And that was a huge talk down at Knoxville that I don't think I've ever heard a better public speaking effort in my life. Completely captivated me. So then created these. Yeah, the crosses with the sandblasted scripture, but then got really convicted on how to incorporate biblical imagery.
So it just kind of led to where I'm at right now in this creative process of being able to take these panels and water jet cut silhouettes out of the glass and combine them with airline cable in midair. So this would actually give, you know, a huge concept of modularity in depth. So you can have, you know, multiple layers of this glass intersecting and overlapping to create one image.
So if you're standing from a particular perspective, it would seem to be flat, but as you stood, perhaps underneath it, you would see that there are Multiple glasses hung 100% in multiple layers. That's really cool. Yeah. So either from above or you could walk around and see it from the front. Got it. Yep. Okay. So you're. You're actually. So it's not like a diorama where it's all pieces connected together and suspended from one string holding them all.
It's multiple pieces suspended from multiple strings. 100%. That's incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So being able to get even more detail oriented with that has just been a crazy battle, but an awesome journey. So that's kind of where we're at now and kind of figuring out where those limitations are and what can be made. Wow. Yeah. I mean, what you're describing, I don't think that there are a whole lot of people listening, there might be, who are familiar with glassblowing from a casual degree.
Maybe some of them have tried it in various educational experiential settings. But what you're describing sounds to me like a series of very important innovations in the field. For sure. Yeah, it's definitely a positive something. And it's all cumulative. Having these stacking skills of being able to do all of these things together to create something that hasn't been made. Yet, specifically for the glory of God. I guess I'm interested in.
So you're pioneering techniques that have not been used by anyone other than yourself. So far as I know. So far as you know. And so in this hyper woke, massively left leaning world. And I guess I'm interested in like the impact of that. Like hey, all you pagans. Yeah, this is glorious. And I pioneered all these techniques, like, I don't know, deal with it. So it's. The work's done, right? Yeah. So one of the projects that might be my favorite of the crosses that I made with sandblasting.
I made the cross of the crucifixion and that was fluid lacerations throughout the entire thing. It was three layers of glass. And this is actually one piece. So this was all put together to be one piece. It has the holes where his hands were, the hole where his feet were hand sculpted. Crown of thorns. This is supposed to be a gruesome piece of art to display the reality of how gruesome the gospel was. Yeah, of course.
And down in my studio in Davenport, Iowa, I have that right in the front of the door. And every single person that walks in there looks at that cross. Gotta deal with it. But it's so amazing the way that children and any age can get captivated in that. Yeah. And it can surprise you in that. So I'm in Iowa, you know, take that for what it is. But I see nobody's perfect. Right, right, right, right. Oh, come on. I'm repping the Midwest. I love the Midwest. I'm in a flyover. State, too.
For sure, for sure, for sure. But you see this. This captivating gaze and adoration in those sculptures. That is everything that I set out to accomplish, to look at. Right, yeah. But you also have people that are completely turned away, but then they'll ask me later on if it's for whatever reason they're still in the gallery, what's your favorite thing to make? And I can't lie. And this is what I've spent all my time in.
So to be able to thoroughly talk about the gospel through my artwork is an amazing blessing. To use that as an outlet. Amen. Amen. And that's one of the things that was. One of the many things that was so interesting about talking to you last night, is that you had taken. You learned these skills from your father, which I'd like to talk about, and you put 10 years of experience, full time into this. A lot of people know about the whole 10,000 hours thing.
And if you work it out, that 10 years ends up being roughly that. Right. But 10 years of experience doing anything, I think a lot of people underestimate the gravity of that. But you're putting it into such a specific direction. Yeah, right. In such a focused and godly way. You just found that commitment to be inspiring. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, even Darren Doane is definitely a reference that has had an impact on me. Just that the idea of repetition and the idea of anything.
Anything is worth making, even if it's done poorly. Yes. Like, you absolutely have to learn, especially when things break for no reason. In my industry. Yeah, yeah. Everything can be the same. All the conditions can be right. But all glass is broken. It just hasn't broken yet. So it's. There's a poetry to that. Right. It's one of those things. But, yeah, it's a ton of time, a ton of experimentation. But that creative process is something that you're not going to get anywhere else. Right.
Yeah, for sure. And it's the commitment to a very specific set of skills. Yeah, right. And I think there's something about glassblowing because the medium in particular is subject to spontaneous destruction. Right, right. Like if you're painting, you might make a bad stroke or mess something up or perspective, but, like, the canvas isn't suddenly going to burst into flames. Yeah. Or cut or burn you to the point you need to go to the hospital. Yes, yes, exactly. The medium itself.
And I think that that's something about various forms of creativity that I don't hear a lot of people talk about, like, understanding the Nature of the medium itself is very unique and dangerous, potentially physically harmful. It's heavy. Right, right. And it's temperamental. Pun intended. Tempered glass. You know it, man. But yeah, a ton of sweat, especially in the summertime. So that is one thing I'm definitely in the situation in the Midwest. We get, we get hot summers there for sure.
And that's trying. And, but it's, you know, you just got to stay hydrated, go for the Redmond's real salt and make sure you're alive. Right. But yeah, fire during that entire process, seeing what God has gifted us there. And then we have torches that can go insanely hotter than any other time period that's been blowing glass. So I have fire in my hand that I can direct where, you know, they say the Egyptians did this first and they used wood fired furnaces. Okay. Yeah. That only gets so hot.
Right. So it's, it's just. Yeah. Being able to have those gifts and utilizing those is definitely. Yeah, just a crazy blessing as well. For sure. I mean, like, and you've also, you put years of your life into it, right? And you know, you talk, you talk casually like, I've broken a lot of glass. And yes, I hear that. But like in your first couple, three years. Yeah, you didn't just break a lot of glass. Like, you, you probably burned yourself quite a bit. You probably hurt yourself quite a bit.
Like, because that's part of it, right? That's part of learning. Like, you know, you start out anything that has risk, like you're going to make mistakes that you don't even know you're making, but the glass will let you know you made it. Right. And yeah, it's, it's, it's totally defeating.
And if you, if you are doing something that is completely new, I cannot describe to you how much I've relied on the Holy Spirit and through prayer, even between attempts on making a sculpture or trying to get something done. Yeah. You know, something breaks, something breaks, something breaks. You know, what's, what's different? You're a man. Nothing's going to be different. Grace from God is going to get you through this. That's. That's the only way.
Yeah. So the physical and the mental time put into that is taxing. And I, there's just, there's no possible way that I could have even gotten any of the works done apart from myself. So everyone just went on break here and you've got your booth over there, so I don't want to keep you too long. You probably want to get back, I think. Yeah, for sure. Completely. Yeah. I mean, I want to.
If you're down to keep talking, I'd love to, but, like, I want to make sure that you're supposed to be talking to me, but you're also supposed. To be talking for sure. To them. For sure. For sure. I'd say I got another five or ten minutes. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, these are the people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, fantastic. So, yeah, so I guess then the question would be, like, as you worked your way through that from the early stages, the Holy Spirit was driving you.
He was building into a lot of what you're doing. Did you feel. Were you aware the Holy Spirit was pushing you down this path? Like, obviously it was something that your dad shepherded you in. He brought you into the fan, I guess, the family business in a way. But, like, did you. You must have felt something personal moving in you. Like, okay, this is the direction that I'm called in. Yeah. Yeah. So there was. There was a huge push. I left college to start this company, so I left college.
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Praise God. Yeah. You don't need a college degree for business either. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And glassblowing is a trade, for sure. But, yeah, I guess I. Working with my dad and working with. We actually have another combat veteran named Marvin that works with us too. Shout out Marvin. Yeah, shout out to Marvin. But, yeah, just working with these guys on these projects and being able to share the gospel, you know, as we're working together, is definitely a driver too.
You know, that fervent prayer, for sure. Being into that situation and representing the living king and all of that. So, I mean, it really is all the price for all of life. Yeah. Including all of work process as well. For sure. Right. And yeah, I mean, you know, having, you know, being an artist, I can't be as, you know, thankful.
I tell you how thankful I am for my wife for being able to go through that process and all those failures with me, because obviously, you know, at the end of the day, completely drained from being there in the summertime, and she's there and she. She supports what I'm doing. So that's. Yeah, that's a huge part of it, too. And I think that's an underappreciated aspect of. I mean, and you're an artist as well. Right. And art is. Art is very unique in that the results can be unpredictable.
Right, right. You can. You can pour all of your time and energy and intention into any sort of piece in any medium. And it can just not work out because of your own mistakes or a flaw in the vision or whatever that you couldn't even predict. Yeah. And like, as a man and as a creative spirit, let's say that hurts. Yeah. And you come home and like, oh, just kind of defeated, you know, and that's part of the process. Very different from anything else.
And she's there help support you in that, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And wouldn't be anywhere without my church. And I brought the same friend to this conference that I did in Knoxville. And the community that we have at Sacred City and Bettendorf is phenomenal. And they've just been a huge support as well. For sure. So you're not like, you're a man as part of a team in a community. I'm in a team.
I guess that's another gift of the Holy Spirit, in a way, because so many artists are so solitary. It's me and my studio and it's just me. And it's like the solitary genius is a. The romantic notion of that. That's just. There's a ton of pride in that. I mean, you know, everyone wants to say, hey, let me walk into a cave and come out with something that is absolutely amazing. Right, right.
Or, you know, like the philosophy, like, you know, don't talk to me for two and a half years and I'm going to come back with this new idea that is going to completely blow your mind. But there's preciousness in that, you know, And I guess we talked about this last night, but speak about preciousness. Right. So being way too detail oriented to the point that you never complete a project. Sure. Right. Especially if you're doing something new. Right.
You have to get the idea out into the stratosphere. Right. And you're never going to do that by being completely just crushed by all of these smaller little details that you're probably going to get lasered in on if you're not part of a team. Right. So, yeah, having that team and be able to say, like, still working on that, huh? Yeah. And then there's the conviction of it's time to go, it's time to send it out. Yeah, for sure. You gotta.
You gotta put it out there in the public, let people look at it and be exposed. Be exposed in a way. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, everyone's seeing this. Right. And then. Yeah. Also referencing, you know, everyone wants to see your failures in that. And we live. We live in. We live in this time now that everything is accessible to watch someone's story. Right, right.
And that is, yeah, definitely something that I want to expand upon, you know, in that team aspect of being able to get my work out there more through social media and focus on that. And something I wrestle with, being that artist that, you know, just wants to create the work but not create the video content to show the world. Sure. So you want to, you want to have, you want to keep your process private, but people want to be part of the process.
And that's been a big humbling thing for me is like recognizing that over four years of doing this, like I've failed a number of times. Yeah. You know, like. And if people who have been listening for four years can think back, you can probably think of a lot of initiatives I've started that I haven't. That haven't borne fruit or that I haven't followed through on because it's like, you know, that's part of the process of refining who we are.
You're trying a bunch of different stuff and it's so humbling. Yeah. Especially I remember Gabe talking to the Cross Politic guys about we're not listening to the first season that we filmed, you know, like for X amount of time. And yeah, that was, that was actually when they had Darren Doane on there and they were talking about that too. So yeah, we've, we've. Any type of artist is going to have that.
The sooner we can get past that and even put that out in the world is when we're going to be able to make an impact for sure. But I think even like you're at 10 years now. Yeah. At a level where a lot of people. But be starting out like I'll never be able to get there. Right. But you'll be at 20 years and you'll look back at the stuff they did at 10 years, like ah, amateur. Yeah. Well, that's just, I mean this is how we are. It's just. Yeah. And that's kind of.
Kind of just how it has to be, I guess. Amen. Sure. Amen. No doubt. Well, it's been fantastic. Thank you so much for sitting down to chat with me and for your enthusiasm for what you do. It's an. It's infectious. No doubt. It's infectious. And thank you for doing it in such a fallen artistic environment. Yeah, I know that. The glassblowing, I mean, I can only imagine, you know, and so you're being a stand for Christ in this world. Maybe just speak about that for a moment.
Yeah. I I think George Grant just hit it on the head about the apocalyptic mindset that we can get into. Okay. And you know, like you. Like you were saying, I've been doing this for 10 years, but, you know, tomorrow or when we get back on Monday, that's another day. And it's. It's ever and a right. Just like we sing here, even just like songs, psalms, hymns of being able to stay grounded in Christ during this creative process, like the psalms.
And being able to sing has gotten me through so many creative disruptions, so much friction, that I can't even describe that in words other than singing. Yeah. And that's. Yeah, that's been a huge gift. That really has came a lot from Fight Lab Feast, and that was singing down in Knoxville. We had. That was that one fly Gabe referenced in the beginning of the year. He's over here now. Yeah, it's following us for sure.
But yeah, singing to get through the creative process and stay rooted in scripture has been everything, everything in that for daily disciplines, and it's been amazing. Amen. And that's what's so necessary when on the cutting edge, when pursuing does something difficult, when doing something dangerous. Right. What else keeps us going about that? Yeah, you're getting suited up and going into battle, and we're going to sing.
Amen. And you get to share the fruits with all of us, churches here, with the conference. And you make something. I know that. All glass. You said all glass breaks. It just hasn't broken. All glass breaks. It just hasn't broken yet. You know, may the things that you break, the things you make break long. After you're gone for sure. Someone else. That'd be good. Amen. Well, thank you so much for this. Where would you like to send people to find out more about you and what you do?
Yeah. So Instagram handles Crux glass art. So that's cr x glass art. Okay. Also crux. Crux art.org crux art.org yep. Everyone go over there, check that out. And you do experiential kind of things in the Davenport, Iowa area? Yes. Yep, we do. Yeah. So, yeah, we do a ton of education. We love being that. That gem. We're one of the only glass wing studios in that area, let alone the Midwest. So, yeah, we love to contribute to that, for sure. Excellent. Everyone check it out. If you go that way.
No doubt. Thank you so much again. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. You know it. Cheers. Isaac from T. Rex Arms, thanks so much for being here today. Well, it is my pleasure. I've Seen you on Twitter and I've been recommended your podcast several times. I. Do you listen to podcasts or do you just make podcasts? Sometimes I do. When unmissable ones I do. I have a podcast, which means I don't really listen to podcasts anymore.
If I want to talk, if I want to hear somebody's podcast, I like to have them on my podcast so that I get some content out of it because the publishing schedule. But no, we've had a couple of conversations now and I appreciate what you're doing on Twitter and so I'm really glad to be on the podcast. I'm really excited to have you because as we were talking before we started recording, I found my way into the sort of firearms world in 2020. I lived in San Francisco. Good company, actually.
That was a good year for people finding their way in. Yeah. And it was a huge year for you guys as well. And I became aware of T. Rex not too long after that. And just from my casual observer perspective, I've just seen explosive growth in what you guys do, how you present yourselves, and you can feel it. And so I guess I was curious what has that been like in both from both a business perspective and also in the Christian world as well as you've seen more dawning awareness of these issues.
So the first 2020 was a ridiculously successful year for us. I can't remember exactly what we did sales wise, but we doubled our staff. Amazing. In 2020. So I can tell you what that's like. Deeply unpleasant. Unpleasant. It's deeply unpleasant to be buried under orders and be so busy working that you're hiring people and you would like to train them better, but there's too much work to actually do the training. And there's. By the grace of God, it worked out really well. But it was a very.
It was a very. We knew that. We were so grateful for the sales. Sure. Because not only was it income and cash flow, which is important businessy stuff, but the mission of T Rex is to equip people. So finding all these people who want to be equipped with our stuff is also an incredible blessing. But having to make all those holsters, having to hire people. And there's also other issues in 2020. There's supply chain stuff. We had.
We had product that we are trying to redesign so that it can work with things. We had plate carriers and chest rigs that used elastic. And the elastic manufacturer said, oh no, we don't make that elastic anymore. We only make mask elastic. We only make earloop Elastic now. So we don't make any of the stuff that you have been buying from us.
So all kinds of weird challenges in 2020, but it was a great year for the company, and it was great to have the opportunity to serve more people, and it was great to have hire more people, but it's always hard to hire people that fast and just suddenly have doubled the number of folks in your company and have half of them. Have half of them have been in the company for less than three months is a weird. It's a weird thing. So that's why I say deeply unpleasant. Yes, I get it.
But also great baptism by fire stuff. And I'm so proud of everybody at T. Rex because everybody put in extra time, extra effort, really, really went the extra mile to serve customers and try to really take care of all the people who were suddenly interested in body armor. Body armor sales were the biggest growth for us in 2020, and it happened when the riots started. A lot of people watching the George. Floyd Summer of love stuff.
Yes. The Summer of love showed people that fiery but peaceful protests are a good time to wear body armor. A lot of people who are like, I understand what body armor is for, but I don't understand why I would have it, why I would need it. As they watched the news, a lot of people were like, oh, I get it now. Yeah, that's worth 500 bucks. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. So. So that was kind of our biggest indicator that a change happened in 2020.
A lot of it was people who were just like, oh, I should have a gun, Buy a gun, put it in the shelf, never think about again. But people who bought a gun, bot holsters and bot body armor are people who are thinking about more than just some kind of magic talisman to put in the closet. Right. Body armor is very unpleasant to buy or to wear. So when you buy body armor, it's a commitment. You are thinking about more than just an impulse buy.
Yeah. I mean, you're buying into the reality of a potential scenario. Yes. A firearm is like you said, a magic towel is if you're wearing body armor. You are aware that firearms work both ways. Yes. And it's a personal sacrifice to buy body armor because it's expensive, and then it's the worst thing in the world to wear. Like, nobody wants to wear body armor. The only thing worse than wearing body armor is being shot without having body armor on. So if I had to choose between the two. Exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess the interesting part for me there's a lot in here, is we're here in an environment that's full of Christian entrepreneurship. Like, they're like, yes. The sponsor booths down there are just amazing to see what businesses are doing. And so you guys hit a moment of explosive growth that I think every entrepreneur kind of longs for. Right. But you're drilling for oil, and the gusher happens, and then you have to actually capture the oil.
So from inside, you have a whole bunch of people. You double your staff. There's no institutional knowledge. You have to invent it with people like, tell me what to do. Like, we don't even know what you should do. Yeah. So what was it like coming out of that? There. There was a stabilizing time. So fortunately, we. We had built a good foundation before hiring all those folks. Oh, we. We had. We had just built. At that point. I'm trying to remember now, that was four years ago.
So we had about six years of company history at that point. Okay. So we had product line. We had just bought a building, and so we had room to expand. The Lord really prepared us for this in ways that we did not know we were being prepared for this. So we really were ready. So that is the first thing is we actually had all the pieces. We had the space. We had some of the institutional knowledge. We had some product design. We still had to scramble with supply chain stuff.
But our holsters, we had decided months before COVID started to happen. In early January, my brother David said, you know, one of the things we should do this year is we should really, now that we have a bigger building, we should run really deep into raw materials. No more just in time manufacturing. We should have at least three months of raw materials for holsters, period, Just in case.
Which is, I think, a leading of the Lord, because there was no reason to have that conviction in 2020, in January. Right. But it was a great. There were a number of things that really set us up for success. Some of it was stuff we'd learned in the last six years, the previous six years. Some of it was stuff that there really isn't a good explanation. It was just providential that that was the case. But then coming out of that, there was a lot of stabilizing that kind of needed to be done.
We realized that we were a big enough company now that we needed to actually probably have. I hate the term hr. Human resources is so dehumanizing, ironically. But we realized we need to have a person in that role, a person who is really dedicated to hiring a person that is really dedicated to compliance. Once you get to a certain size of company, you have a whole new raft of compliance that you gotta deal with.
So there were several roles in the company that just did not exist until we hit certain thresholds. And so there was a lot of stuff to. Once we brought on all the people and we got on top of all the orders, there was a bunch of stuff that still was on the to do list to do in 2021 and 2022. And so those were kind of stabilizing years where we did some of the training and some of the preparation that had been postponed during 2020. So. And I think that speaks a lot to the maturity of the staff.
The fact that we could, we could hire people and teach them how to make holsters and tell them like, don't worry, we'll onboard you next year, or maybe the year after that. There were people who were mature enough and capable enough that they could do that. Like, fine, onboard me whenever, just show me how to use the machine now. Great. So being able to find folks like that was amazing. And so.
But those six years, getting ready for 2020, even though we didn't know that's what we're doing, we're. And we had dealt with growth before. Growth is what you want, it's what you pray for, but it also just adds to your workload. And when you are making not exactly a custom product, but a made to order part, it's really easy to get twice as many orders and take 10 times as long to get them out.
Because there are weird bottlenecks that suddenly appear inside of your pipeline and you realize your production line doesn't fail linearly, it fails exponentially. Oh yeah. When things go wrong all at once, when it rains, of course. Yeah. Once your buffer is full, you don't just slow down, you kind of stop. There's all kinds of things related to production constraints and QRF workflow and stuff.
We didn't really test this to its limits, but we'd already run into some of these things and started to learn about them. So when we had a doubling of orders, we already had a rough idea of like, oh, we've started to bump into these things and this is the way that we're going to handle them in the future. Oh, the future is now. So that was another great providential thing that God had given us seasons of growth to let us build some of the pieces that we needed.
So it was deeply unpleasant, but we couldn't have been better prepared, honestly. It wasn't the Right place at the right time. I mean, there is an element of that, but you had prepared to be in the right place at the right time without knowing. And a lot of folks experienced the same things in 2020. There were. It was a. It was a rising tide that lifted all the ships.
So SIG USA doubled their factory workflow space, their square footage, and were buying machines as fast as they could and hiring people as fast as they could. The. The firearm industry benefited from a lot of the layoffs. There were so many people that lost their jobs in 2020, and not all of those people, but a lot of those people did find jobs in the firearm industry.
The firearm industry tends to be more conservative, so a lot of them fought harder to keep their doors open and had jobs available for all the folks that had lost work. So it was a really interesting thing that happened across the industry, not just with T Rex. Yeah. You said a word earlier that I think, really encapsulates how I perceive T Rex maturity, the maturity of the staff. And I have an outsider's view of gun culture. I enjoy some of the things that I see.
There's clearly a subculture there that I appreciate from a distance, but I know very little about. But T Rex manages to come across as very mature, but also have fun. And very mature, but also have a whole bunch of really young, immature people in it at the same time and have a name like T Rex Arms, which is. Which is a joke. Yeah, that's right. Because of the little short arms. Right, exactly. So I appreciate that you think we're a mature company.
There's an undercurrent of we have fun, but there's a seriousness. And that's what I think maturity is. Maturity isn't stern and stiff. It can be that at some points. But to be mature is to recognize, like, there's a youthfulness coupled with a wisdom. And, like, does that play out within your corporate culture? Cause I feel it from the outside. It is something we strive for in our corporate culture. I'm not sure how well we pull. It off, but it'd be a big challenge.
One of the things that we also struggle with is we don't know what kind of company we are at T Rex, where it is. Like, are we. Yeah. Are we a manufacturing company? Are we a YouTube channel? Are we an educational company? Are we a political lobbying company? Are we a lifestyle brand? According to Darren Doane and some of the folks here, we're a lifestyle brand. We could sell. We could sell T Rex Arms bottled water, you know, and I think you. Might be right about that.
So there's, there's a bunch of things where we're not 100% entirely sure exactly what we are, what bucket we fall into. We have our fingers in enough pies, we do enough things, we have a big mission. And there's a bunch of different pieces to that mission. So I think that that helps a little bit.
Where we can hopefully avoid getting too precious, too territorial about stuff and we can just be like, hey, you know, we sell armor, we sell night vision, we're a YouTube company, we have political lobbyists. Like, our identity isn't so wrapped up in one thing that we have to be too uptight about it, hopefully. And our name remains a joke. So that also helps. I think that's right. But I think there's a blessing in that.
Ultimately, what I try to do when I encounter decisions like that is I remember how fortunate am I to get to choose between a bunch of good options? Yes. Right. Are we a lifestyle brand? Are we this or that? Those are all pretty awesome options. Like what a blessing to get to choose. And I find that that takes a lot of the pressure off. Like when I need the answer, the answer will be there. Right. Are we an engineering company?
No. Are we leaning heavily into being really good engineers and make really good tools? Yes, because we believe in constant improvement. And so I think that is a help, especially as you get to be a bigger company. We have hired a lot of non gun people in our local community. We're in a very small town, so not everybody that we hire to come run a CNC machine or hardware holsters is going to be a hardcore competition shooter, budding militiaman. Like we have a bunch of regular small town folks.
Yes. And so if you come visit T. Rex, you will not hang out with a whole bunch of strapping dudes wearing Cry Multicam pants all the time. Really dry firing in between loading the Haas machines. Yeah, we have guys like that. It's true, we do have guys like that. But we have a whole bunch of just regular folks and they're leaning into other aspects of the mission, other aspects of serving customers. And so I think that helps too, that we can try to achieve excellence in some different areas.
Be a little more well rounded as a company. So as a Christian company, Christian owned company, how does that interface with the gun culture world, which is in many ways very pagan, in many ways very, you know. Yes. Manly men. So how do you assert yourself in that, in that role? This is fascinating. So the gun, there's a Couple different things. There's the gun industry. Yeah, Most people think the gun industry is Ruger, Smith and Wesson.
Companies that have been around for over 100 years and have primarily sold to duck hunters and deer hunters. And we young YouTube gun tuber whippersnappers have been trying to pull them into AR15 world and, and scary right wing extremism, for example. So there's that idea that's out there. And if you go to Shot show, you might get that sense. Because there are giant hunting companies at Shot show that have the most inoffensive apolitical campaigns that you could possibly build around hunting.
Okay. And then in the corner you have weird little companies that make niche hardware like ballistic helmets and goggles for dogs, canine units that get dropped out of helicopters. Like, you don't need more than two or three companies making that equipment. Probably not. But they are at Shot show and they're across the hall from the gigantic apolitical camouflage company. Interesting. And so the whole industry is this weird mishmash of things.
And then in another corner, you're going to have some weird guys with Twitter red pill zoomer memes as their entire booth theme. So it's a conglomeration of a bunch of different things. But there is a strong. In the younger gun culture 2.0, the way that we've talked about it in the past, there is a strong masculine. And in the past it also has been heavily influenced by people with military experience.
So specific, specifically veterans that teach firearm proficiency develop products based on their time in actual combat. Like that has been, that has been the coin of authenticity, that has been the coin of value within Gun Culture 2.0. And that's kind of changed a little bit. I don't know to what extent T. Rex has been a part of that shift, but I think we have in some ways because my brother Lucas is a great shooter. Never been in combat, I've never been in the military.
And I also don't shoot well. But I talk about issues and I invent product. And our company is full of people that have different levels of combat experience. We have guys who have really incredible experiences to draw on and real world testing of product.
And then we have guys who are, you know, really, really withdrawn from all of that, but phenomenal at other aspects of thinking through what a militiaman might need or how we would recover some freedoms or how we would actually better serve customers. So very interesting in many ways. Lucas and I probably we have a number of people who are on the YouTube channel and have A public face.
But I think Lucas has probably helped move the needle a little bit away from black Rifle Coffee Bodybuilder, Seal Team 6 influence towards more demonstrable skills. I guess I would say it's kind of a Gnostic feel back in the early 2000s, where I was like, no, these people who have seen the elephant have a secret knowledge that regular civilians can't have. And it doesn't matter if you can't see their skills. It's an invisible thing that they bring to the table.
And there's absolutely an elephant. Excuse me. There's absolutely an element of truth to that. There are things that if you sit at home and read books about military history, you will not consider some of the realities of living in a trench for seven days. These sorts of things. You will not have seen what the environment of a refugee village is like if you just read about the logistics and the troop movements.
But on the flip side of that, the guys who do the door kicking, the guys who have seen the things oftentimes aren't thinking about the logistics, and they aren't thinking about the decisions. They aren't thinking about some of the other aspects. So I love that there is now, In Gun Culture 2.0, not just a T. Rex, but in Gun Culture 2.0, there is a much. I would say there's a much broader skill set. There's also a lot more appreciation for different gifts, different talents.
3D printing guys who are, you know, they're geeks, they're nerds oftentimes, but they're inventing new gun technology, and they're pushing the boundaries of freedom and gun laws and so forth by developing stuff that you can print at home. Does this podcast go on YouTube, by the way? It can. Well, now that I mentioned 3D printed guns, maybe it can't, but maybe. We'll cut that part out. We'll cut that part out. Okay. That's okay. It's probably. Jeffrey, cut this out. It's probably okay.
But YouTube is actually fascinating. There is an element I'll back up, you know, people who can. I'll try. I'm trying to figure out. I'm completely okay with not putting this on YouTube. Whatever you want to do. No, I think. I think. I think YouTube is. If YouTube is where you're getting traction, like, go for it. I'm trying to back up and remember what I was. Find a better segue. Right? Yeah. About different. Yeah, we were talking about different. Different cultures within gun culture.
Different skill sets that are finding their way. Yeah. Together so you have, you know, you have the people who are more militia minded, home trained, personally trained, like yourself and your brother. Then you have the special forces guys, the door kickers, and those two guys, they have stuff to teach each other. It can't just be like, these are the guys and the only guys with the secret knowledge.
Like, maybe I haven't done that thing in the field that you've done, but I've achieved proficiency here that you should be able to look at and respect. And maybe we can. Maybe we can be brothers, maybe we can be collaborators and not be competitors.
Yeah, and I think there's just a maturing of the community where guys who are proficient in radio communication, guys who are proficient in ultralight camping, some airsofters, some overlanders, like there's homesteaders, there's a bunch of people who are very ideologically aligned or adjacent to some of these ideas. And so the fact that they are a part of gun culture 2.0, or maybe it's gun culture 3.0 now are.
I think that has been a great, it's been a great improvement and a lot more maturity to the, to the wider community. And a lot of it, I think, also mirrors what's happening just in the red pilled community on Twitter. You're seeing that that is no longer just trolls. There's also a variety of people with different experiences and different interests that are kind of part of that little clump or group that's appearing on X now. But I'm seeing this.
We were talking about the renaissance of men before we started recording the. One of the ideas behind the renaissance of men when I started the podcast was that there are so many different male leaders that are taking different angles on masculinity. Essentially they were setting themselves up as sort of archetypes where they are the example. And so I just had the 30,000 foot view to look down and say like, this is the outdoor hunter guy, this is the barbarian guy. This is the entrepreneur.
Right. This is the playboy. And you know, I was not looking from a Christian worldview landscape. You're talking about Dan Blazerian, right? Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, he's an example. Yeah, he was on the far, the far fringes. But yeah, all these guys saying, like, okay, I look at all these different guys and like, no one guy has it, but they're all pointing at the same thing, right?
Yeah. And the attempt of the renaissance of men was trying to get these men to see, like, we all have things to learn from each other. Right. We can be recognized as men. Among men. And the example that I provide to that is always the Lord of the Rings. There in the Fellowship you have nine totally different guys. Right? From the warrior king, hero of Aragorn to the elderly wise man of Gandalf. And you have Gimli Legless and then you have Frodo and Sam and like.
Something that would become a classic D and D lineup for role players to come. Exactly. But none of these guys with all these very different non overlapping skill sets looked at each other and said I don't think you're man enough, old man. Interesting. None of them did that. They understood that they were all united together in common purpose.
And so what I hear you and that's what I was trying to get people to sort of see with the renaissance of men Ultimately because they had no solid worldview foundation. They were not able to come together. But you're describing something that I see happening in so many different ways. How can men have different skills and talents come to work together towards common purpose and recognize and see themselves in each other? Sounds like that's happening in gun culture a little bit. I think so.
And I think that a lot of that has come from some of it is just the maturing that comes with age. There are guys that have been in it for a while and they have grown as individuals and that has helped them in many ways. But also I think that there has been a little bit more of a focus on the mission. And the beauty of the Fellowship of the Ring is the mission is really what pulls all those people together, all those different groups.
So Elves, men and dwarves are no longer fighting across purposes. They have a common enemy. They have a common mission. They're going to pull together. And I think that that is something that has happened in gun culture where it's no longer just like we're going to fight to get a couple of like gun bills passed. Maybe. I think everyone understands now that the stakes are much bigger than the assault weapons ban not coming back. The stakes are much bigger than that.
There's something more that we need to do as a country. And the gun community is more than just the lobbyist arm of Ruger, Smith and Wesson, whoever. So that I think is another major factor here that we realized like, oh, these things could go sideways. I'm going to need homesteaders and overlanders to help me get chainsaws out to East Tennessee to help them with that. Because the community is about more than just making sure that the NRA has enough money.
And some of the crumbling institutions have helped like, we watched the NRA fall apart and realized, like, oh, we have to. That was our responsibility. They're not doing our responsibility for us anymore. Now we have to step up and do the political side. We have to do the public relations side. We have to do some more of this ourselves. I think that's helped a lot. I think that's actually been really beneficial.
And so when I watch guys on the left like dancing jigs because the NRA is gone, it's like, oh, you don't understand. Those guys are in the way now there's some room to move. You should not be celebrating this. Those guys were your best ally, to be perfectly honest. So that's been really interesting to watch, and I think it is a combination of maturity and prioritization that's helped. So we're here at Fight LA Feast. We got Gabe in the background.
Maybe everyone can hear people singing St Patrick's Breastplate, which is a perfect song for actually all parts of this conversation so far. Yeah, perfect. Yeah. So as you're. As you're encountering more and more Christians who are waking up to a lot of these issues, what has that been like for you guys as a company, where you have people coming to you, like, help us with what we don't know? Right? Yeah. I see it happening on two sides, and it's really.
It's daunting, but it's also very confirming and it's encouraging. So we kind of get two groups of people coming to T. Rex and saying, I really want to know. I want more than a holster. I really want to know what's going on. I really know how I can help. It is either guys from really young guys who have played video games, gotten into Airsoft, and they find us through the guns, and they say, so I love guns. What's next? So I love guns and what they defend. What's next?
And it's great that those guys are looking for that. It's not just a hobby they're wanting to turn into something more than a hobby or they're wanting to understand it more fully. And I love that we're getting some of those guys asking us those questions. But on the other side, I mean, the folks at this conference are my people. I grew up in homeschool conferences. I grew up in some of these church denominations.
So I'm finding more and more people who have focused on family, focused on church, focused on taking care of their kids, focused on business coming to me saying, like, hey, in order to take better care of my community, we need to figure out radios and maps and we need to have firearms. I need to be able to defend my family with a firearm. The fact that we're getting people coming to us from both directions is really, really encouraging.
And I think that that is going to help us stay calibrated a little bit, because in many ways, these two groups need each other more than they need us. And if we can be a middleman and we can introduce people and connect people, that is a tremendous opportunity, perhaps. As a lifestyle brand. As a lifestyle brand, yes. Yeah. So, yeah. And again, I appreciate the diversity that's there where it's very easy for me to get tunnel vision and to get focused on stuff.
If I have guys that know a ton about the equipment, that know exactly why they want a 14.5 pin and weld AR with a particular BCM bull carrier group, I can talk to that guy about that. But if I'm also talking to a guy who has raised nine kids and built a business and is the pastor of a church and he says, hey, what gun should I buy? I have never owned a gun in my life. What gun should I buy?
If I am talking to both groups on a pretty regular basis, I think that keeps me from getting a little too hyper focused in a specific area. So I think it's also just good for me. Right. It sort of keeps a broader perspective on things because you interface with so many different men from so many different perspectives. It keeps it centered on what is this really about? What's the mission? Yeah, exactly. As opposed to, this is my identity as a militia guy.
This is my identity as a special forces guys. Well, yes. And there's something higher that we should all be pointed towards. Now, I would love to use the next hour of this podcast to talk about chrome lined barrels versus some of the other nitriding technologies that exist. But it's not mission critical, right? For some people it might be, yes. But it's really important, I think, that we tie it back to the mission. What are we trying to do and why?
Yeah. So how does that mission take shape going forward? Say, I mean, I know that we're, what, three days out from the election? Four days out, That's a whole different thing. I keep forgetting about the election. It's nice in this little bubble for a minute. But, you know, regardless of the outcome next week, what does the future look like? What are you guys looking? I mean, obviously there are a couple very different paths. Yes. And both of which have degrees of unpredictability. Right.
But like, as you look for the future. What does it look like for you? So in some ways, I don't want to say it doesn't matter because it matters a lot. But in some ways, I feel like there's two very different directions. But the initial reactions are going to be the same. My brother David, who's the CFO of the company, said whatever happens in the election, the only thing we know for sure is half of the country is going to be madder than they've ever been maybe since the Civil War. So good take.
So there will be that aspect. The other thing that will happen is regardless of which candidate gets into the White House, there are going to be 24 million bureaucrats that already kind of have their own systems and agenda that are still in place. And a bunch of people will get reappointed with a new cabinet, but roughly 24 million bureaucrats are going to still have the same job. So there's, there's that inertia and that momentum that's, that's there regardless of who gets elected.
But on the, on the, on the flip side, on the good side, the election is not just for president. There's all the state and local level politicians. My hope is that we can get more of a community focus as a whole, spend a little bit less time being distracted by the president. Not that it's not important, but that compared to the size of the bureaucracy and the responsibility that the states have and the responsibility that our communities have, we should really get our focus back there.
So in many ways, regardless of who wins, the mission is the same. And the obstacles and the hurdles, most of those are the same. I think that we're going to have a good year financially because I think that there will be unrest, there will be people who are hurt, there are going to be people who are worried. And I think that we will probably get orders out of that. But also I think that we're going to continue to have some of the same battles and they'll just feel a little bit different.
If Donald Trump is elected, I think we will be hassled by the ATF a little less. But I think that there are, you know, banks and insurance companies and we've been debanked and de platformed several times. Like, I think, I think we actually will get more of that under a Donald Trump presidency than under a Harris presidency. And I think we'll be hassled by different agencies a little bit less. Like in general.
So in many ways it's just going to be what flavor of there'll Be slightly different flavors of kind of the same thing. And that same thing is hopefully a reminder that we need to take more responsibility upon ourselves. Our communities and the states need to take back more responsibilities from the government, regardless of who's in there. I think that there will be constant reminders of that. And hopefully we listen as men, as women, as communities, as states.
So we'll see the mission remains the same. Amen. So just one more quick question. So you work with two of your brothers. Yes. High level at a successful corporation. How does that work? Do you guys just go out back and settle things like you did when you were kids? So we've joked about that. Like we should just have foxy gloves. Yeah, so, so we work with. So yeah, so there's, there's four owners of the company, three brothers and one brother in law.
And then other family members are involved in the company. Members of our church are involved in the company. Like there's, there is every opportunity. Yeah, there's every opportunity for messiness. Yeah. That you can imagine. And now the company is big enough. We have 90 employees. So we have let people go whose parents still work in the company. Like any messiness you can imagine, we are in a small town and we have enough people and we have two churches and we have multiple families.
Like this is any opportunity for awkwardness that you can imagine we have the opportunity for. So I think the tendency in corporate America is to avoid messiness by avoiding relationship. Sure, it's so much easier, cleaner, but you, you miss all the benefits that come with relationship. And so I would, I would encourage people to lean into relationship as opposed to out of relationship and work through the messiness because it's also inevitable people will be messy. That is unavoidable.
Even if there's only one person in solitary confinement, he can develop schizophrenia and argue with himself like it's just going to happen. So I won't say that we're always the best example of dealing with the messiness, but I do think that one of the big lessons is lean into relationships. Not out of them. Don't be afraid of the messiness, but also know that yeah, it'll be there. Well, there's also a standard above all of you that you're all accountable to.
So in a secular world, you get a bunch of brothers or sisters running a company together. If they're not all accountable to one standard that holds them all is above them all, that can get messy in a real bad way. Yes. But if you're all accountable to God's Word that's like, okay, that keeps us in line because we know we have a judge in heaven. That is a massive. That's a fantastic point. I really appreciate that. But I would say I'm reading a book.
Oxford Press has a book on family owned businesses. Family owned businesses are not uncommon. A huge amount of the wealth in the nation is within family owned businesses. Obviously there's gigantic public corporations and gigantic publicly traded corporations, but there are untold millions of family owned businesses, some of which are tiny, some of which are medium sized companies that control a lot of wealth and employ a lot of people.
And so this is something that has been a strength in American companies for a very long time. So there are benefits to this. There are ways to make it work. And the way that you just mentioned, being accountable to each other as brothers in Christ and seeing each other as under authority is the best way to handle it.
But having those kinds of relationships, building that kind of trust over time is something that I think, again, you miss all that if you just decide you're going to work with random people because it's cleaner somehow. Right? Amen. Well, this has been fantastic. I appreciate the time to talk to me about your business and this has been great and gun culture and all of that. Yeah. Well, I would love to say soon. I want to have you on my podcast because I want to ask you questions.
You've probably answered many times on other podcasts. But I want to have you on my podcast because it's easier than listening to podcasts if we just have the conversation. And the thing that I want to get into is some of your cultural observations and other things. Gun culture is fascinating. It's really interesting to watch it develop as an anthro. It's just an interesting thing that somebody ought to be studying, like at an academic level.
But you've looked into a bunch of other fascinating cultures and other countries and done historical study into those. And so I want to pick your brain on some of those. So hopefully we can do that soon. I love that. And I'm happy to answer a lot of the same questions over and over again because it gives me the chance to think them through in new ways. So I've told the story of my testimony many times, how I was introduced to Christ at Burning man, which is a whole big thing I've gotten into.
Not many people have that testimony. As far as I know. There might be just one person who's actually followed up and become a Christian as a result of that. Oh, wow. As far as I know There may be more, but as many times I've heard this story, I've heard stories of like, oh, there are people who made professions of faith at Burning man, which is not exactly the same thing. It's an emotional environment.
People are tempted to get caught up in the moment and say something, and then they get back into real life and it never actually lands in their lives to the form of like joining a church, you know, getting baptized, etc. So as far as I know, I might be the only. I may not be, but as far as I know, I might be the only one. And it's funny that you mentioned that, because I just. I never had. Never put the pieces together.
It's because when I met this Christian ministry group, I actually pursued them. So I met them at Burning Man. I had that experience with them. Then they came to Carson City, Nevada, like two months later. And I drove up to see them because I wanted to see them again. Then I went to their houses for Christmas in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. I kept in touch with them while I was traveling. So it wasn't just something that I have that happened. And we kept in touch.
And I checked in with them five years later. It was that I pursued relationship with them. And I only realized that through telling that story so many times, like, oh, wait, there are some pieces. So it helps me to tell, to answer the questions because I see things in new ways. Very good. Because we have the narrative that we develop about our lives, which is true, but it can sometimes, just the way our minds work, leave out details like, oh, I'd never thought about that before.
So I'm happy to talk about this stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, my life is a whole bunch of weird, crazy, completely unrelated, random things. And then in hindsight, you're like, oh, I think God was trying to teach me something there. And only now do I realize his providential goodness that I was avoided that, but was also there to see that. Yes. So you get it. Yeah. He led me to take a look at that. I got to see it. And then he slowly snatched me out of it. Okay, you're done.
Yeah. So. Well, I'm looking forward to that conversation already. That should be a great conversation. Yeah. Anthropological examinations of other cultures and our own histories. Sounds like it sounds like a white paper or a PhD thesis or something crazy like that. That does sound like. Well, I've had the chance to observe developed nations, developing nations and nations that will never develop. Right, right. And so that's. They call that the first, second, and Third World.
But I find that developed nations are like the United States, Japan, you know, nations in Europe, et cetera, developing. I would probably say China, India, Peru is a great example, at least back when I was there. And then like, an island nation like Vanuatu in the South Pacific will never develop. That's just not what's going to happen there. So to see the world and those two perspectives backstage is a. It's. It taught me a lot. It helped me appreciate America thousand percent.
Yeah. Another interesting conversation is undeveloping countries, countries who are losing stuff. Yeah, that's something I want to dig into because there's so many different factors to look into. I mean, as complicated as Gun Culture 2.0 is to try to define and map and, like, just figure out who's even in there. National and civilizational cultural development up or development down is tricky to track. Yeah, there's a lot of that right now. Yeah. Yeah, very good.
Well, thanks again, Will. I appreciate it tremendously. And yeah, we'll keep talking offline and then can't wait to have you on T Rex Talk. Sounds great. Where would you like to send people to find out more about you and what you do? So the company T Rex Arms can be [email protected] and you can see all the stuff that we sell, stuff we manufacture, stuff we design, stuff that we retail.
And then we create a lot of educational materials, some of which may be helpful for people who want to learn more about shooting, more about radio, more about things that are sort of adjacent to Gun Culture 2.0. And then we also have a podcast, T Rex Talk, and everything can be found from the main website, though it's probably the best place for people to go. Simpler, easier. And if the election goes one way or possibly the other, you might already be looking for someone to stuff that we sell.
Just possible, you know, go there anyway. There will be a Black Friday sale. If you're already looking for it, maybe it'll be easier for you to find. That's the other thing we want to do is not just, like, send people to our website because we want to make money, but we honestly believe that we have brought our products to a high level. We've curated the stuff that we carry from other people really well.
The goal was to create a website where we could send people when they had questions like, I'm new to this. How do we get started? That's the goal. And I still feel like we have a long ways to go, but we have a thing. If you want the best Kydex holster within a certain criteria, we are the people. And I truly believe that that is the case.
And if you have specific needs or looking for specific stuff, I'm confident we know who makes that too, and we will send you in that direction where our customer service guys can do that. So we are in many ways a customer service first company. And then we make stuff that needs to be made, and we curate stuff that people should know about, and then we make educational material around it. So, yeah, we're always trying to figure out what kind of company we are.
So. Yeah. So visit the T. Rex Drums website and let us know in the comments what kind of company we are. Please do that. Thank you so much, Isaac. I appreciate that. Yeah.