Hello, my name is Will Spencer and welcome to the Will Spencer Podcast. This is a weekly show featuring in depth conversations with authors, leaders and influencers who help us understand our changing world. New episodes release every Friday. Okay, everyone, buckle up for the finale. This is the third and final episode of my three part series which I recorded at the 2024 Cross Politic fight, Laugh Feast conference in late October.
That conference was just over a month ago now, right before the presidential election. And following that kind of big deal, it almost feels like we couldn't be living in a more different world from back then. If you've been tracking this series, the first episode featured Isaac Botkin from T. Rex Arms and Logan Reiser from Crux glass. And the second episode featured a full hour with the legendary Dr. James White, plus Jim Hunter from Alps Precious Metals Group.
Now we're about to go somewhere entirely unexpected. This final episode features three fascinating men I encountered at the conference, each with a story that'll help you think in new ways about topics like evangelism, cultural engagement and Christian leadership. First up is Andrew Bornman, a missionary farmer. Without your typical missionary story, imagine walking away from everything comfortable to live among a native tribe in a remote Mexican village.
Andrew didn't just move there, he became part of the community, navigating a landscape of paganism, violence and crushing poverty. His tale of earning trust, learning culture, and ultimately preaching the gospel is going to open your eyes. We're talking about real world spiritual warfare where every conversation could mean the difference between connection and rejection. Then, and this is where it gets even more interesting, I talked to his son Samuel. Picture this. Day two of the conference.
This young man walks up to me, hands me his book entitled Of Wizards and A Tale of Enyaw. And with total confidence, he asks to be on the show. Not timidly, not apologetically, but with the kind of boldness that makes you take notice. I'll be honest, I was so impressed that I had to say yes. And here's the description of Samuel's book. Stout had everything he could parents, a good home and a safe life. Then one day, everything changed.
The armies of an evil wizard named Kaukulo destroyed Stout's home and killed his parents. Stout joins the Forgotten Order of the Knights of Light and trains to take on the quest of destroying Calculo. End quote. And my conversation with Samuel was easily one of the most memorable of my entire weekend. Samuel represents something I'm passionate about. A generation learning to speak up, to ask for what they want, with a mixture of humility and genuine confidence in their work.
Now, if those sound like contradictions, believe me, they're not. This is the kind of young leadership our culture needs today. And for the finale, I sit down with Parker Brown, a husband, father, video producer, and host of what might be the most innovative podcast I've discovered this year, the Watch well Podcast. This isn't just another movie review show. This is deep cultural analysis of film through a Christian lens. Parker does something unique in modern Christian apologetics.
He takes our favorite movies and asks the dangerous question, what are these storytellers actually teaching us? In the process, he reveals how incoherent their worldviews are. For example, take my recent appearance on his show to talk about Guardians of the Galaxy 2, an episode which should be out the same day as this podcast. You can check for a link in the show notes.
Now, on the surface, Guardians 2 is just another Marvel movie, but I think it's actually one of the most profound meditations on father hunger in modern pop culture. And these are the topics that I think really matter for men today, the ones that make you see familiar things in completely new ways. So I hope that by this time next year, Watch well makes it onto your top five on Spotify and that will conclude this series.
I hope you've gotten a feel for the conference and a glimpse of the extraordinary caliber of the men gathered there. As I said in episode one, I was blown away by Fight, Laugh, Feast in general and got way more than I bargained for in the best ways possible. Thanks to Gabe, Toby Knox and the whole team for making something truly special, needed and fun. Now, friends, we're not just recording conversations on the Will Spencer Podcast.
We're part of a restoration project for Christian civilization in the west and I need you in this fight with me. There are a couple ways you can join this mission. First, when you stop by Spotify or Apple Podcasts, don't just hit that five star button and run. Take a minute to write out how these conversations impacted you. Your words might be exactly what someone else needs to hear to give the show their first listen.
And you know those conversations that hit you right between the eyes, the ones that shifted your thinking? Share those episodes. Not because I'm chasing downloads, but because we're in a war for the soul of our culture. And these conversations are ammunition for the right side. For those ready to go deeper with us, head over to willspencerpod.substack.com and become a paid subscriber. You'll get access to ad free interviews and exclusive content, but here's what really matters.
When you see our sponsors names, remember that they're not just businesses, they're allies, building Christian economic strength for generations to come. Supporting them isn't just opening your wallet. It's investing in an American reformation. Because this isn't about entertainment anymore. This is economic warfare in service of the kingdom. And please welcome this week's guest on the podcast, the missionary farmer, Andrew Borman. His son, the author Samuel.
And from the Watch well podcast, which you need to be listening to, Parker Brown. Andrew, thanks for sitting down for the podcast. We just had the chance to meet a moment ago and you were getting into telling me some of your missionary work down in Mexico. So maybe just introduce yourself and talk a little bit about what you're doing and what brings you to fight. Lafayette yes. My name is Andrew bornman. I am missionaryfarmer.com I am a farm boy that grew up and God called me the mission field.
When I heard about the Tarahumara Indians in Mexico and the fact that there's a terrible problem with childhood malnutrition, a high death rate in children. Currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% of children do not make it to age 5. Oh, wow. And less than 1% of the population are genuine Christian believers. Okay. And I said, oh my God, how could I turn around and look at my kids? And I'm praying, saying, God, how in the world could I live without one of my two children?
We now are blessed with four, but at the time we had two. So it was 2003. I moved my family in Mexico in 2005 and quickly learned that knowing how to grow food and store food, preserve food, is not what was actually needed. What was needed is to solve the problem is transforming hearts and minds through the gospel. Oh, interesting. So talk a little bit about that. How did you discover that that was the particular problem, not the food itself? Does it seem that malnutrition, you give people food?
Yeah, but there's more to it. There's a lot more to it. I think the thing that really helped me understand what was going on was seeing the enormous quantities of food that are produced in the region. And then shortly, months after harvest, people are hungry. Interesting. And so the majority of the food produced does not end up being utilized to feed humans. So you have entire orchards that have been planted in the past, and the fruit lays on the ground and rots.
Okay. As I was talking with one guy, I said, so it's kind of like you eat apples and peaches in season until you're sick to the Stomach. And a couple months later you do about anything to get an apple. Yeah, okay. Okay. That's how it is. And so that's. And it's not like they don't have tech, low tech solutions for preserving food. Anybody in a dry climate can easily dry food. Like there's almost zero effort. And so it's not about, it's not primarily about ignorance.
Ignorance is a factor, but it's primarily about values and whether you believe that there will be a tomorrow. Do I have reason to be confident the sun is going to come up? Do I have a reason to be confident that the rains will come when they usually come? And if you have a pagan worldview and you believe as the Tarahumara people do, that their religious worship sustains God. God is not self sustaining.
God is dependent on their sacrifices and their worships worship to continue to sustain the world. So it's this circle circular thinking that they are dependent on a God who has depended on them. Okay, so I understand the worldview. How do they believe their own sacrifices support God? And what would happen if they stopped? Sacrifice? The world would cease. They believe that the whole world would stop if they stopped. So the people in Texas want to know what they're sacrificing. Goats, usually.
And corn beer. Cornmeal. Corn beer. Corn beer, yes. So like the central feature of the society is this gathering. It's like a drinking network. It's the cohesive force in the society where you get together with your extended network of relationships. And you dance prayers, they're danced outdoors so the sun and moon can see the dance. Because the moon is father God. The. The moon is mother God and the sun is father God. Okay. Yeah, very. Yeah. Okay. So it's very typical paganism, right?
Yeah. And their offerings nourish the gods. That's really interesting because. And so you sitting here in Texas owe your life to their acts of worship. That is how they see it. Really. And so. But if they're starving to death because they don't preserve enough food, like is the whole world just going to stop? I didn't think that far ahead. So this is what. So you see how it's a worldview that has no future. Correct. No future without. It's maybe it's maybe, maybe God will hear.
Maybe God will send the rain. Maybe we'll keep scraping by. And so to come in saying, I serve a good God. Yes, yes. Who has promised rain and harvest until the end of time. Yes. Okay. That is just a mind blowing difference. Yes. That God is abundant in himself. And is not reliant on us to sustain him. That's right. That's so interesting, because I've been thinking. I can't remember the context I was thinking about, but I was thinking about the human sacrifice of the Aztecs.
Sure. You know, thousands and thousands and thousands. Right. Yes. I had never considered that. Possibly one of the theological ideas behind it is that human blood is actually required to sustain the gods, not merely to appease them, but to sustain them. No, it's not. It's about sustaining. That's wild. So God is dependent on his creation. What an ultimate. What an ultimate idolatry of self. Yes. Right.
And it's particularly disturbing that the Tarahumara have had over 400 years of contact with Christianity in the form of Catholicism. Okay. Yeah. Well, since the 1940s, we've had evangelical missionaries, Protestant missionaries in the area. Okay. And yet we still have a very, very small percentage of the population who's converted, and we have a larger percentage of the population who have converted to heresies. Okay. So you have oneness. Pentecostalism, Like Jesus only.
Yeah. A lot of prosperity gospel. Even more damaging. Yeah. These are destructive things. These do not build the kingdom of God. They do not produce human flourishing. Yes. And the true gospel does produce human flourishing. So as you've taken these ideas down to them, what has the response been among these communities that you're a missionary to? So mostly indifference, really? Yes, mostly indifference. They are very suspicious of outsiders.
Sure. Like, more so than any other people I've dealt with. I've traveled quite a bit. I've never met people who are so close to outsiders. But praise God, we've gotten past that through acts of service, through being good neighbors, through saving lives physically, that sort of thing. And people start to say, this is different. And I had an opportunity. We were at a funeral party for one of our neighbor's wives and women. Their funerals take four years to complete.
Their funerals take four years to complete? Yeah. How long do men's funerals take? 3 years. This is interesting. Why so long? And why the difference? Well, women walk slower than men, so it takes them longer to reach their afterlife destination. They have to walk there? Yes. Which way is it? We don't know. That's not a question I know how to answer. Exactly. Yes. That's the answer. And I think if you asked that question, people would just kind of look at you like, are you dumb?
Yes, I might actually be. So I was at this party, and so you get together and you drink the homebrewed Corn beer. The corn beer. Okay. And that is the key entry into the society is to be a drinking and joking friend with someone. Okay. That makes sense. And if you reject that, you have chopped off the possibility of relationship. Sure. And so the teetotalling missionaries who've preceded me cut themselves off from the culture by refusing to drink with the people.
Oh, because if I offer you a bowl of a gourd full of corn beer and you say no, it's like refusing to shake in somebody's refusing to shake an American's hand and spitting in his face. Sure. Like you've just destroyed the possibility of relationship. But they drink with the goal of becoming drunk and reaching communion with the spirit realm. Yes. Okay. Very common. And so I maintain the biblical doctrine that drunkenness is sin. Right, right.
And so when my friends offer me corn beer, I say thank you. And then I return a gourd full to them. You're dipping out of a five gallon bucket. Okay. And the flavor can range from something like water keep for like, to unmentionably bad. Yes. Homebrew. And about the third or fourth gourd that they give me, I say, thank you, I've had enough. And they might press again, but people that know me no longer press. And I say, it would be shameful and disobedience to my God if I become drunk.
I cannot do that. My God says that's wrong. And people have always accepted that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Other missionaries say, don't go to these events because it's dangerous. Well, yeah, it's dangerous. You're hanging out with 40 people drunk out of their minds. Crazy stuff happens. Communities do. Spirits. Yes. Communing with spirits. Crazy stuff happens. Okay. So have some situational awareness. Say the ambiance of this gathering is turning ugly. Hey, guys, I've got some work.
I gotta go. I gotta go. Yeah, exactly. It's real easy. Well, sort of. Does violence break out or. Murder is common. Murder's common. Okay. Rape is common. Incest is common. I mean, it's an ugly pagan gathering. What do you expect? Sure. Okay. I mean, these are people without God. Yes. And so I was at this party about just over a year ago, a year and a half ago now, I suppose, with my neighbors. The second funeral party. You have a party on the. The anniversary of the death.
And my neighbor, one of my neighbors, he's a big guy, leans over me, I'm sitting down and he says, tell me, why are you really here? Okay. And I had this fear come over me, like I am Scared out of my wits. Sure, you can feel it. The guy's somewhat aggressive. Everybody's drunk. What are you really here for? You want land? You want women? Okay, what are you trying to get? And I said, no, actually, I'm here because I want you to know God. I'm here to help you produce more food.
And the moment I was truthful about why I'm here, the entire environment changed spiritually. Okay. The host of the party, they'd been playing a game where you toss. You toss a little metal piece at a hole in the ground. Okay. They've been playing the game. Game ended. The host goes and pulls out some chairs, and we sit around the fire. We talked theology for two hours. Really. We had a rising shaman there as a young man. Brother in law to the man who asked me, why are you really here?
And he opened up. He shared his theology with me. I shared my theology with him. And it was such an incredible opportunity, and it was powerful. Right. And I gained insight into some of why they do the things they do. And I've reached the conclusion that, as you know, one of them said something about how Christians often say hurtful things about them being pagans and hating God, and it's true. And at the same time, they genuinely want to reach the Creator and they do not know how.
And the church has often placed obstacles in their path by refusing fellowship. Fair. Yeah. And so by being willing to get sick as a dog, drinking stuff that wasn't very good. Like, I mean, you don't have to get sick if it's bacterially contaminated. You're. Yeah, you get sick. That's right. You're not drunk, but sick, which is different. That's right. There's two things that are very different. One's sin, one's not. Yes, they're both miserable. That's right.
But you have to be willing to hang out with people that have tb. Like, TB is endemic tuberculosis. Sure. So, yes, you risk your life, violence, disease, but is it not worth it? Did Christ not lay down his life for you? That's right. So as I tell my kids, go conquer the world. Yes, go conquer the world. You know, that's world dominion is what Christ came for, to bring it that everything would be placed in subjection to Christ, including forgotten little villages up in the mountains of Mexico.
How long into your time there, before that, you were playing that game where they said, why are you really here? How long had you been there when that happened? So that happened. I think that happened in 2023, 2022, and those people had known of me since 2009, had been their neighbor since 2014. So you'd been there for seven, eight years? Yes. Wow. It's like in the last year and a half, the floodgates have burst open. Yes. And I have so much opportunity.
I'm doing a Bible study in another community where the missionaries were run out of that community in 2017 because of violence. They've had multiple battles fought over that mountain, and every single house has either been burned or ransacked. When you say battles fought over the mountains, like for land rights? No, cartel conflict battles involving hundreds of men on the mountainside in the middle of nowhere. So two cartels are fighting each other on the mountain, but not for the mountain?
No, they're. Well, they're fighting for control of the territory. Okay. It was the one guy's base where he'd go hide out. He had a fairly large personal army, and, like, he had a couple hundred men there. Okay. And his enemies said, enough's enough. We're gonna kill him. And they did. They played a game of soccer with his head. That'll kill you. So I go into that environment in 2023, and they'd had no Christian influence there since 2017, when some missionaries were forced out by the violence.
Right. And I had the proper credentials to be able to go in because I've been vetted. Everybody knows who I am, and they know that I don't say things I shouldn't say. And so I had access. After a year of building relationships, I asked one of the men there. Would. It be all right if we'd start doing a Bible study after a year? Okay. Yeah. And his response was, yeah, that'd be really good. Praise God. Yeah. And so my approach is always to go to the men. Like, I'm polite to women and kids.
I pursue relationship with men. It's really. I think it's the way that God prescribed. Right. You address the authority structure that God created. Yes. And you don't try to go around their back, deal with it head on in a friendly manner. Right. But it's interesting. That man rounded up his second wife's extended family. He has two wives. Rounded up the extended family that was nearby and said, hey, come on outside. We're going to sit down and listen to Andrew give a reading from the Bible.
So they've heard of the. Oh, yeah. They didn't encounter other missionaries there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not the right people who hadn't handled things the wrong way. I won't. I won't comment on that. Sure. So, yeah. So the turning point moment came seven, nine years, seven or so years in when they had seen you being there for a long time and like, they couldn't figure it out from material means. Like, what is this guy doing here? He says he wants to teach the Bible.
Like now he's been here for seven years and we can't figure out what he's really about. We've seen him, we've watched all of his behavior until they finally had a couple drinks and they roll to confront you. What are you really here for? Yeah, like, I'm really here for what I told you I was here for. That's right. And then they're ready to talk to you. Yeah. Praise God. Yeah, praise God. Thank you so much for your service, sir. Like, where can people go to find out more about you and missionary?
Farmer.com. i have a newsletter that you can sign up for. I send that about once a month. Okay. Well, that's my goal. Reality is about 10 times a year. Won't tell anybody. So. Well, thank you so much for your missionary service on behalf of the kingdom and the community in Mexico. Thanks for the interview. It's a pleasure to be here. Hi, Samuel. Welcome to the Will Spencer podcast. You came up and talked to me about your book yesterday. Yes, I talked to your dad earlier today.
Why don't you introduce yourself and, and tell people more about you and what you do? Yeah, so I am a missionary and author and distiller, living and working in Mexico mostly. I'm here to talk today about my book and why it's important for people to have my book. I wrote a kid's book for people ages 12 to 8, more or less, about transhumanism, infanticide and evil at age appropriate levels.
And it's all in the context of a fantasy fiction novel so that your kids can enjoy a good story and start thinking about these issues so when they meet them in the real world, they're recognized them for what they are. So I got your book here. It's called Of Wizards and A Tale of Enyaw. Am I saying that right? Yes, sir. So how did you come up with the idea for this book?
Yeah, so it started during COVID Funnily enough, I was angry about all the transhumanist stuff that was going on and I was angry about abortion. And so that worked itself into the book. I started out thinking I'm going to write a lighthearted kids novel. And all the stuff I was reading, all the stuff in the news that work this way Naturally into my story.
And I said, okay, I guess this is a kids book, but I'm gonna have to make it lighthearted enough that kids can actually enjoy it and not make it too heavy. But, you know, it's interesting, I think, that children can enjoy certain things that they don't see the parallels to the real world because it's set in a fantasy setting. And then when they recognize when they actually encounter it in the real world, they're like, oh, that's like in that book I read when I was a little kid.
Now I know what needs to be done. You know, someone who wants to chop babies up, they deserve an ax in the head. You know, that kind of thing. So that's the. They deserve to be fought. So that's what I'm doing with that book. How long did it take you to write it? Like, from when you had the idea and then you fleshed it out, like, how long did the entire process. That took me a little more than a year. Okay, so pretty fast for books for a first fiction. Had you been a fiction writer before?
No, I had done some writing of short stories. I had written some larger pieces but never published them. Probably never will because the idea is I was learning how to write. But no, that's my first book. Well, congratulations. Thank you. So can you talk a little bit about the plot and the setting and the story? Like, just kind of set the stage and some of the characters? So the tale is about a boy named Stout. He's living a normal life in his home village.
And one day, he and his friend Sally, they break the rules of their community and go enter a wood slow. That's forbidden. And while they're in there, this other character, the light, uses the fact that they sinned to his glory by using that sin in spite of their sin. He saves them because while they're in the woods, their village gets attacked and destroyed. So then that sets the stage for Stout to go off and fight the evil wizard.
The. The light sends him on a mission to go stop the evil wizard who is doing transhumanistic surgeries, grafting men and animals together to have better warriors, better soldiers in his army. And so that's the plot of this story. So definitely a fantasy. Goblins, you got dragons. You got these creatures called the Dark Eternals that if these demonic, like, creatures. So, yeah, you definitely want to check this book out. That's great.
I mean, that I can see the parallels between, like, you've made it age appropriate for ages 8 to 12, where it's like, an adult could look at that setup and be like, yeah, I recognize the pieces. But an 8 to 12 year old, if they've been properly catechized, might as well. But it kind of gives them a different spin on the same. On the same world. Yes, yes. That's a. Like, that's a. I don't know, like, what were some of the things that you saw in the world that you'd like?
One element, maybe one character that you drew. Like, someone out in the world that you drew inspiration from. Like, I can look into the book. I don't want you to spoil anything. But, like, you know, maybe you read a headline somewhere. Like, I gotta put that into the book. Yeah. So I think that the evil wizard whose name is Calculo, it's kind of just a caricature of modern science, especially science involving the use of fetal stem cells from aborted children. So he is.
He's wanting to improve humanity as he sees fits. But he's also kind of got this really dark sense of humor. Okay. Because I'll just say this one scene, he takes a guy's arms off, gives him crab claws, then the guy can't open a door. Right, Right. So he breaks people. Yeah. To make them stronger. Because the guy told Calculo, hey, I want strong hands. I want to be able to crush a man's skull. That kind of idea. Like, I want to be the strongest man.
So he gives him these crab claws, but now he can't open a door. Right. The way he was designed to work, you know, have hands that can open something as simple as a doorknob. And now, because he has wanted to be something else, something that God didn't create him to be, can't do something as simple as open a doorknob. And Calculo has this kind of sense of humor, like, hey, now you're as strong as you can. Wanted to be. You're stronger than any man, but now you can't open the doorknob.
And so he gives people what they want, but not quite the way they want. That's actually a pretty nice bit of inspiration right there. Right. Because there's something darkly true about that, about, like, okay, I'll give you what you want in a way that be careful what you wish for. You might get it. Yeah, we see that with Satan, right? Yes. So. So he definitely, you know, Satan and his servants, they think alike, and so they do stuff like that. So is this the first book in a series?
Yes, sir, Intended to be. So where do you plan to go? With the series, obviously, those books are in process, but what's the overall vision for the series? So, yeah, so this next book is going to be set, like a couple generations later, so following the same theme, same war, but different characters. So the overall general plot is tell the story of how sin corrupts and how evil.
Evil spreads its roots everywhere and pops up time and time again and has to be fought in pretty much every age, because if you just follow, like one character, you get a sense of evil, but, like, over a short period of time. And I kind of wanted to do kind of like what CS Lewis did with his Chronicles of Narnia, like, spread it out over years, maybe even generations, thousands of years, because it reminds us that even if we defeat a certain evil in our time, we still need to be watchful.
Because due to some mistakes that if you read this book, there's some mistakes the characters make that result in evil reoccurring in the next book. So you'll see that there. How old are you? 24. 24. Okay. That's a lot of wisdom for 24. My parents have been reading the Bible to me since I was little, every day pretty much. And we've read through the Bible multiple times. So I think I would.
I would say that God has given me wisdom and that my parents have read the Bible to me and that I have a very, very, very active imagination. Yes. And I have lived in Mexico, where I see violence firsthand. Yeah. And so I would say that all those things together, they bring a certain amount of wisdom. Now you're a missionary with your parents out there in Mexico. I spoke to your dad about, you know, some of the processes of getting to know those people and getting.
Earning their trust and talking theology and the way their theology works. What is that? What has that been like for you? Because you were like, seven or so years ago, so you're maybe 17, something like that, and you've been there through the process. What has that been like for you as you've been there with your parents? Well, so we actually moved to Mexico first when I was 4. Oh, okay. And we've been there pretty much ever since.
But in the small town where we are now, it's still the same community that we've been in since 2009, but the little town where we're living now is called La Laja. We have a farm there, and we bought the farm in 2014. So that's. That's probably the time period my dad was talking about to you there. But so what my role Was primarily, for many years, was helping my dad get to know families. Right. I didn't even know it. I was just playing with kids.
But kids playing together tend to introduce parents to each other. Yes. And so it's a very natural way for parents to get to know each other. Say, hey, our kids are playing together. Why don't you guys come over, you know, come over for supper and hang out. So that was how I helped my dad at first. After that, you know, as I got older, I started telling people what I understood about the gospel as I understood it.
And as I developed more and more, you know, my understanding of the gospel was able to share more and more clearly. And now I sometimes go to community events on my own. You know, some of those, I'm sure my dad mentioned the drinking buddies that the corn beer. Yeah. They have these ritual drinking parties and sometimes I go by myself and I go and I sit around and I visit, I drink with them, tell them that drunkenness is a sin, but that drinking in moderation is not.
And that, yeah, it's fine to dance a little while, it's fine to dance, but if you're married, you should dance with your wife. And if you're not married, you should be careful how you dance and what kind of messages you give across. So, yeah, so that's kind of been my role. Started out just introducing my dad to people, you know, being a kid. And now I'm all the way into preaching the gospel at these drunken parties. And writing sci fi fantasy allegory on the side. Yeah, yeah.
I wouldn't actually call it allegory. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I'm not. I'm not trying to write. Yeah. It's not allegory, it's fantasy. Yes. But as a Christian writer, my Christianity is just woven into it. It's like, I think it's hard to separate. If you truly care about the gospel, it's hard to separate your Christian beliefs from your work. I think it'll show that it should be. Yes, your beliefs.
I mean, that's what we're doing here at Fight La Fils as we're learning how to infuse all of Christ for all of life, all means all, including your work, including your creativity, including your labors. Yeah, yeah. So just. So just sort of the last question then, like, had you, you've been writing your whole life and sort of walk me into the moment where you had the inspiration to write the book. Was there like a moment where it's like, oh, wait, and it kind of clicks in Your mind?
Or was it something that had kind of taken shape in layers over time? Yeah. So like I said, I started out wanting to write a lighthearted kids novel. Like, yeah, I'm gonna have some fun. Write a novel. I wrote it. Just have some fun. Write a novel. No big deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause I mean, it's my hobby. That's. Yeah, yeah. I just enjoy, I've always enjoyed telling stories ever since I was a little kid. As soon as I started talking, I started making up stories. Oh, great.
Okay. Telling stories, that's just part of who you are. Yeah. Which I mean, if you like to tell stories a lot, sometimes you start to get into telling lies. Sure. So, but, but yeah. So I started out just like, hey, writing fun kids novel. And then, you know, in 2020, I'm trying to write a light hearted kids novel.
Reading all the news about all the evil stuff that's going on with COVID and the development of the COVID vaccine and, and also just violence in our local area, you know, and all this stuff just kind of wove its way in. And then I'm like, okay, I wrote something a little heavier. I wonder if this can even be a kid's novel. Yeah. And I handed it to my dad because he wants to read what I, you know, I'm writing. He's like, he reads it and he looks at me and he says, this is good.
And your dad's the sort of man who would be honest with you about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad's been telling me for years, write something else. Write something else. This is not good enough. Write something else. Don't publish this. And I'm like, okay. So then he says, this is good. I'm like, what do you mean it's good? What do you mean, like, what do you mean it's good? He's like, I think you could publish this. If you do some publishing, you can publish this. I like, okay.
My dad has never encouraged me to publish it. It must be good. It must be good. It means something. It means something. And so that is when the moment clicked. Like, okay, now I have to publish a book. How in the world do I publish a book, right? So I'm like, okay, start researching this on online and started like talking to some people. But I like, I wasn't really super serious about it. I was like, yeah, I want to, but I don't even know where to begin in because.
And I was looking at the publishing world and like listening to authors talk about how hard it is to get published. I'm like, man, this is crazy. I'm not already established. I'm not some famous politician wanting to write a book about their terrible life in their 20s or whatever, right? So how in the world do I get published? Plus, also, I don't want to be supporting a company that is woke or tyrannical. And as I'm thinking about it, I ended up meeting a guy online, a guy named Alan Stevo, who.
He wrote a book on how face masks hurt kids. And I met him online and I was. My dad signed me up for his business class. He had a business class he was doing. And he says, so what business are you going to do? I said, well, I've written a book. I've been thinking about publishing it. He says, all right, you've got like three months or something to get it published. I'm like, what do you mean? He says, just self publish on Amazon. I'm like, I don't really like Amazon. He said, me neither.
He said, but you need to get it published, because if you don't publish it, you're never going to publish. Fair. So I said, okay, I guess I'll do it. And then I had a deadline, and I had a guy who was keeping me accountable because the way his business workshop worked was each week we had a call, and I had to tell him what I'd done to get towards my call, my goal, you know, on a call, straight up coaching 10, 20 other people.
Like, okay, in front of all these people, what have you done this week? Like, did you do what you said you were gonna do? No. Okay, done. Why? Like, what's going on? And so that really, really motivated it. And that's. That's. That's why that book exists, because they. They held me accountable. That and my. And my siblings, they were like, you really have to publish this. We. We love this book. We want other people to enjoy it.
They've been telling me for years I should publish something, but I always took it with a grain of salt because my dad was saying it was bad. But when my dad, my siblings, and my mom all agree that it's good, I'm gonna go for it. Congratulations. Yeah. Well, thank you. That's a beautiful story. Well, thank you. Because when you walked up to talk to me yesterday, you walked up very confidently. It was such. It was such an inspiration.
Like, this is a young man who just walks up to me, hands me his book, and says he wants to talk. Talk to me on the podcast. And I'm like, I got instant respect for that. You know what I mean? Well, thank you. Yeah. But you have your parents, your siblings, you have this accountability coach behind you, and you shipped the thing. You put it out there. And so when we were talking yesterday, you seemed quite confident about continuing the series.
And I understand now why, because it's like, you got the first one out there, it's going to make the second one so much easier. Yes. Yes, it is. Well, congratulations. Well, thank you. Where would you like to send people to buy the book or learn more about you and what you do? Yeah, so you can go to samuelbournman.com that's S A M U E L B O R N M A n dot com. If you sign up there, you'll receive notifications about my mission work.
You'll also hear about book releases, book updates on the next books. You'll also be able to download a free short story about a boy who survives an attempt to be aborted and how his life is forever thereafter plagued with a dragon who wants to devour him until he's able to defeat it. So you should check that out. Download a free short story.
If you subscribe to my newsletter there you can also find my book on Amazon, but you'll have to search for the title and my last name, otherwise you won't find it. Great. We'll send people your way. Thank you so much, Samuel. Thank you. Lord bless you. Parker, man, what's up? Thanks for coming on the podcast. Anytime, brother. Anything for you. So I'm a big fan of your podcast. Watch. Well, Yep. Which is all about.
Not just this, I don't think, but all about breaking down movies from within a Christian worldview. That's right. And I just think that's such an incredibly cool idea because that's what I do when I watch movies now, which is why I don't watch many movies. So the opportunity to talk about it with brothers is a really cool idea. So how did you come up with this? With a podcast. So the story of the podcast actually starts with my co host, who's my cousin Nick, who you've met.
Yeah. 20 years ago, 15 years ago, something like that. He kind of. He was in college and he was going to movies. And ultimately when you would leave the movie theater, he would talk to his buddies about the movie. That's kind of. That's what you do. That's what you do. Right. And he kind of. This trend just kind of emerged and he found that more often than not it would end up in a conversation about worldview. Oh, that's interesting.
And he was like, yeah, every time we about a movie, it ends up, like, good and evil and subjective, objective morality, all these different things. And he said, you know, I should write a blog. I should do a blog on this stuff. And then he never did it. Story's over. Well, cool part. And he never did. I'd love to tell you that, you know, I sailed off into the future and it was happy ever after. But no, he never wrote the blog.
And then years later, he was put in charge of the youth group at his church. And he was, like, remembered back. And he was like, oh, this is this idea. And he applied it to the youth group kids, where they would come over to their house, they would watch a movie, and then they would talk about it and engage it biblically with worldview, presuppositional apologetics, and all those different things. And he found really, really good success with it. And then he did that for a few years.
And then later, I don't know, maybe 10 years later, again, he was talking to me, and I was like, yeah, I'm trying to get into podcasts, but I can't really think of an idea. And he remembered back, and he said, well, I had this idea. I call it Watch well, and we just do reviews of movies with biblical worldview. And I said, that's it. So then we recorded our first episode that week on Fences with Denzel Washington. And it was a long time ago. I haven't seen that one. It's really good, man.
Yeah, really good. What other episodes? What other movies have you done? Oh, man. Back to the Future. We've done the Back to the Future. Yeah. Dark Knight trilogy. We've done Forrest Gump. We've. On the new the Batman with Robert Pattinson, Forrest Gump. I would shred in a Christian worldview. I would rip that to piece. It's so fun. It's so fun. We probably need to redo it. We probably need to have you back on and talk about Forrest Gump. Oh, please, let's go. That would be so fun.
Oh, man, we've done so many. Fences is good. We've done 13 hours. Secret soldiers of Benghazi. Yeah, we've. Oh, that's two different titles. No, it's one title. 13 hours. 13 hours. It's all about the military guys that got left in Benghazi with. No, they got hung up. The guy from the Office, right? Yeah. John Krasinski's in it. There's actually, I think there's three or four characters from the Office the guy that plays Roy in the Office is in it. And then do you remember the.
Who's the guy that comes. The guy that comes in and does all the checks. He's in the movie as well. I can't remember. I'm really bad at tv, so. It's okay. It's okay. So, yeah, those are. We've done, I think We've done like 40 some movies or something like that. Really? You've done 40 episodes? Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. So, like. Okay, so what were some of. What were some of your favorites? Like, what's the one that really stands out in your memory is like.
Yes, we did one with Dead Poets Society. Yeah. We had a guest on Robin Williams. Is the Bad Guy. Yeah, yeah, we did one with Dead Poet Society. Taryn came on and we talked. That one was a good one. Sorry, Taryn. So Taryn Boyette, she has a podcast and she came on. I don't you want me to say with. I believe it's called Chasing Rainbows is her podcast. Okay. And she came on, we talked about discipleship and you know, there's a lot of different things in that movie that we. That we talked about.
It's hard to remember them all, to be honest with you. Oh, sure. They all run together. Yeah. But yeah, the Dark Knight trilogy was fun. And you did the whole trilogy? Yeah, we did them like sequential. Oh, one episode for each film. What did you say about the Dark Knight? The second film? What did you say about that one? If you can recall. So I have to be careful because it's Nick's all time favorite movie. No, your cousin. My cousin, yeah. It's his all time favorite movie.
It's his, like the best. He is a Batman, like, Die Hard Dark Knight fan. Really? Yeah. Why? It's not a bad movie. He would. I don't know. He would talk about it better than I would. Okay, we need to get you guys in a room together and talk about the Dark Knight. We'll debate about it. Yeah. So. So, yeah, I mean, you can't really argue with someone's favorite, but you can argue whether a movie is good or not. That's. That's true. Yeah. Like, he's not a fan of the Dark Knight Rises.
No, because that's a horrible movie. It's a. It's a horrible movie. Yeah, it's. The ideas just didn't come together. No, it's like they messed it up with Wokeness. Yeah. There could have been a good story in there somewhere, but they had to make it Work like Blade Runner 2049. Yeah. Which I haven't seen that one. Oh, that. What's that one about? Blade Runner 2049 takes place after the original Blade Runner film with Harrison Ford.
It's in the future where there are replicants still, but they're more controlled after they went crazy the first time. And the whole plot revolves around a replicant. His name, I think, is K. Discovering that replicants can now reproduce via, like, childbirth because replicants had to be manufactured. And so they find out that it's possible the replicants can reproduce, like sexually reproduce, like they can be their own species.
And so it's like one replicant has been produced that can allegedly do that. Is it him? Et cetera. So it's that whole journey. Harrison Ford shows up and I have a lot that I could say about. A lot of guys are huge fans of that movie. And I'm just. There's a lot of good things about it. It's Denis Villeneuve who did the Dune series and the Arrival. So he's a very talented filmmaker visually. But the story. There were some problems with the story. What do you think about Dune?
I. I felt differently about the. The. Both movies. Both movies were significantly impacted in very small ways by Wokeness. Okay, so in the first Dune, there's a character Liet Kynes. Liet Kynes. In the books. The first of all, the Dune book is like, incredible. It's like, yeah, I haven't read the books yet. Oh, okay. Well, you know, I don't know that you have to read the books, plural.
But the first Dune book is of the entire science fiction genre, going back to H.G. wells and before top five, if not top three, might even be the best sci fi novel of all time. It's back when science fiction. So that's what I did in high school is I read science fiction novels. All of them. Not all of them, but many, many, many of them. And so it's just an incredible book, like, really, really worth reading, the language and all that.
So in that book, there's a character, Liet Kynes, who's a man who is kind of like in charge of the planet. Dune, in a way, knows a lot about it. In the movie, Liet Kynes was replaced with a black woman. Right. So it's a minor character. The way that they portrayed it in the book, it's a much bigger character. But the Wokeness was so evident. And the thing is, in movies, like, for a character to be given esteem because you're okay. So a character comes on screen.
Why should I listen to whatever this. Person has to say? You have the development. Yeah, yeah. So the cinematography, various things, exposition about the character, the costume, all of this communicates. This is a person you should be listening to subconsciously so that someone doesn't come on screen and says, we need to listen to what this guy has to say.
So the thing thing is, like, for most characters, credibility is established, you know, in all these ways for this character, she comes on screen and she behaves as if you should pay attention to what I have to say. And the only way her credibility is established is because she's a black woman. Yeah, right. Which is a very common thing in films today. Like, oh, the magical black woman. And it's an old thing for men as well. The magical black man is like a well known movie trope.
And like, I think there's a golf movie, something like that, you know, where. It'S like a. Oh, is it Bagger Vance? That's it. Okay. Yeah. It's a well established. It's a well established trope in film. You can look it up. So that's kind of that. And that. There was something about that scene that was just. It just left a really bad taste in my mouth. A really small change. But it's like this is a significant character that they did nothing with and kind of discarded. And so that affected.
That affected the movie in that small way. But it was in the second Dune that they had a real problem because the character of Chani, played by Zendaya. Yep. The function of that character is to be the conscience of the story. Right. So she's the one who's supposed to be looking at Paul Atreides rise and being like, hey, I'm not so sure about this. Everyone's totally bought in. Go, go, go. And she's supposed to be like, hey, like, pump the brakes a little bit. Maybe this isn't a good idea.
Yeah, totally valid role in the story. The problem is Zendaya is not a really good actress. So she couldn't pull off the nuances of performance to suggest disapproval without scowling. So she was. She was telling instead of showing, I'm upset with what's happening. Frowny face. Yeah. As opposed to suggesting, like, a more skilled actor would be able to communicate that in a way that would be more impactful and less obvious. So that was bad.
But what was really bad is at the end of the second film, Chani is supposed to recognize that the right thing for Paul Atreides to do is actually to marry the Emperor's daughter, that that's the only way to preserve peace in the galaxy. And like, she's supposed to be bought in the conscience is supposed to acquit him so he can take this step. Instead, they had to play it off as the jilted girlfriend. And suddenly she turns into the woke Bo boss babe who's been discarded for the girl.
And she goes riding off on her worm motorcycle. And it's just like, that is completely getting the character wrong. And so, like, these are small things. You could look at them that way. But it's also mars what would be an otherwise good movie. It's not Zendaya's fault. It's not her fault that she's not a good performer. She's simply not right. And I don't even mind. People are getting down on her for her looks. She's not as pretty as others look. She. She plays a desert.
A desert girl doesn't necessarily have to be as attractive, like, because that would be authentic to the character. It's that she didn't have the chops. She did not have the acting chops. And I thought everyone was very unfair to her. But then again, we didn't cast her, so she was. She was under qualified for the role and it showed up in the story.
Yeah, I'm often, or I'm immediately going through scenes of movies where you said that she didn't have the chops for those scenes where she had to show disgust or disapproval. Like Forrest Gump at the very end when Tom Hanks finally realizes that the kid is his son. And just that scene of that emotion, he looks at Jenny and he, you know, and he does the physical expression of like, is he like me? But he doesn't say anything. That's right.
And it just gives a whole different dimension to the story and the scene. And it brings you into it to actually feel like you're in the room with them. That's right. And I think, you know, I don't know if I would have. You're making me think about Dune now. And I don't know if I would have pulled that out, specifically that scene with Zendaya, but I think you're absolutely correct. Yeah, I mean, like, that's. This is the art of acting that we don't have a lot of information about.
We know when it's awesome. Like Marlon Brando is. I think he's generally considered the best male actor of all time. And he just has this gravitas, like in the Godfather. In the Godfather, he's literally Just sitting there. Presence. Presence, that's right. It's light. It's photons bouncing off a screen. You know what I mean? In a movie theater. And yet you're there with him because he has this presence. There's no sound. How does that work? I don't know how that works, but it does.
But it's a skill. It's a skill. And it takes a really long time and I think anymore. I would love to get your thoughts on this too, where you have these almost. These kids that just come up and they're just famous. Immediately, boom. And it's like there was no, like, trial or vetting process. Almost. It's like you're just gonna act in this movie. Correct. And there was no tried and true. I say vetting. I don't know a better word.
But I think you can kind of get what I'm trying to say where someone like Marlon Brando, the craft was a big deal. The craft, yes. And, you know, I mean, I would even say like Tom Hanks and some of these great actors and I mean, even actresses, they just kind of stood the test of time. Which is why when you go back and I'm kind of a big fan of Titanic, I don't know what you think about Titanic. Rose is one of history's great villains. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. She's evil.
But the acting in the movie, I think is pretty decent. Yeah. And I. And I think that it's kind of a timeless movie because you can go back in a way. Surprisingly so. Yeah. You can kind of go back and you can watch Titanic and still enjoy the movie. But if you go back and watch Dune. Yeah. It's probably not going to last a generation. No. The visuals are incredible. It's art on screen, man. It's cinematographic. They do that well.
But you got to get to the story, and then you have to get the right people on the bus in order to carry the story along. You can't have really good story and bad people to carry the story. That's right. Oh, they try. Yeah, they do. Yeah. And I don't, you know, I don't know if budgeting goes into all of that or anything like that. It's that no one wants to spend money on writers. Yeah. The things that make a movie succeed is good writing. Right. And good acting.
If you have those two things, you can do a ton with a very low budget film. That's right. But like now people would rather spend money on spectacle and Spectacle, just the way that I define it is like it's action scenes that do nothing to advance the plot, but just look amazing to look at. Like, the Transformers movies are pure spectacle. Yeah. You know what I mean? But this explosion that I'm looking at right now doesn't do anything to advance the plot or whatever.
It's just something to look at. Now there are action scenes that do advance the plot. Right. And that's not spectacle, and you want to invest money into those. But. But a lot of it is just like, this needs to be, you know, 50% longer for the. For the low information voters. That's right. That's right. Yeah, man. That's. It's just so much fun to talk about movies. Right. It's so fun. And they're such a big part of our lives.
You know, I was just actually having a conversation over here with Dusty Devers, and we were talking about Christian engagement and entertainment. And so, so much of entertainment today is exactly what we just talked about. It's just. It's just brain rock. Yeah. There's no point to it. It's. It's get on tick tock and scroll. Death scroll. Yes. And. And. And that's kind of what we aim to do is take. Take back the. The. The reins of entertainment.
And, you know, we got T shirts here at Fight, Laugh, Beast, you know, bringing death to the passive consumption of entertainment. And that's exactly literally what we want to do. Bringing death to the passive consumption of entertainment. Yeah. High five, bro. Thanks, man. Thanks, man. So, like, what are some. What are some techniques? So there's two questions. What are some really good films that Christians can watch? Good films that Christians can watch? Not good films that Christians.
And just there's lots of those. And like, what are some ways that Christians can watch, like, mainstream movies and insulate themselves from some of the toxic ideas? Because you don't want to pat. Like you said, you don't want to passively consume entertainment. But, like, it can get really tiring to constantly be on guard against messaging in films. A good example is I went to the second. I went to see the second Top Gun with my dad, and I think I got.
I was like, I could feel myself kind of white knuckling. Where's the wokeness? Wake. Where's the wokeness? And then it didn't come. Didn't come. And I could just sit there and enjoy the film. And it's such a freeing feeling. Like, it's like, oh, my gosh, they're not trying to force anything down My throat. That's right. And how often does that happen? Almost never nowadays. So, like. So there's a. There's a clenched watching, but, like, there's a way to do that smartly in a way to just do that.
Like, I'm not watching. Right. Yeah. So. But if I don't want to do that, what are some films that I can watch that you would recommend instead that might be a little bit easier, Less clenching. So kind of both. Yeah. So I guess to give you an idea of what we do, I would point to the movie Tombstone. And I hope this is answering your question. But, you know, one of the things that we took away from Tombstone was Curly Bill. And I'll say curly Bill's the bad guy. Curly Bill's the bad guy.
That's the Michael Biehn. Yes. Yes. What's interesting about watching a movie is when we go and watch the movie, we automatically presuppose that we are like the good guys. Yeah, that's. Yeah, it's. And how often do we ever, you know, correlate to the bad guys in the interest. We're not supposed to, but there is some of that. Right. So, like, we're not supposed to, but how. If we.
If. I guess the technique that we use is, you know, you have to, obviously have to start with preparing, read the Bible. You have to know your theology, know your worldview. But then when you. When you watch a movie like Tombstone and you watch how much time and effort went into getting the viewer to hate Curly Bill because of how terrible he is. That's right. Right. And you absolutely want him to get what he deserves. You want him. You want the worst things to happen to that guy. That's right.
Films, good films, spend a long time setting up the emotional payoff of the death of the villain. Right. Because you have to, like. Yes. And when it comes, it's satisfying. Right. It's like, oh, my gosh. Justice. Yes. Yes. And that appeal to justice is written on our hearts, you know, Romans chapter one, Romans chapter two, Romans chapter three. Right. No one righteous, no one good, no one seeks for God. We exchange the truth for the lie. We have what, you know, God's law written on our heart.
So we have that appeal to justice. But how often do we look at Curly Bill and see ourselves because standing before a holy and righteous God, we're Curly Bill. Oh, man. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yes. So in respect of. This is the difference between total depravity and absolute depravity. Like, we're not all criminals. And so far as any of you know, we're not all criminals right now. Like that. However, before holy God. Yes. There's not a meaningful amount of difference between us.
Yeah. And I think that's a really good way to present the gospel to people that you go to the theater with or you know, how often you're just sitting around and like, hey, we need something to do. Let's watch a movie. Hey, let's throw a tombstone. Hey, what do you know, your non believing friend? What do you think about Curly Bill? Yeah. You don't. You don't necessarily believe in objective morality. Because we're friends and I kind of know your worldview a little bit. Why do you.
Why do you want Hurley Bill to get what he deserves? What do you deserve? How do you justify calling that immoral? Like him killing and slaughtering all these people. Right. I mean, he slaughters people in a church in the opening scene. That's right. You know, a couple that just gets married, he just shows up and just kills them all. Yeah. Why is that wrong? Yeah, that's kind of the idea of what we want to do. That's great.
And you point out something really important is to understand that feeling of justice. That's something that I've observed in the movies that I watch, is that the movie has to establish within the premises of the movie why the villain is bad and get you to have a negative feeling against him. It can't just be the way that he looks. You have to see the villain do something that triggers this feeling that advances the plot. So I think of the movie Kill Bill. Yeah. Right.
And so like, you see the bride, you know, get, you know, and that's like such a brutal and savage and truly satanic scene, let's be honest. Like it's. It's really like the only reason that. The only reason. In fact, that reminds me, I should send you an article that I wrote on my substack about why there. Why there are no convincing female action heroes. And one of them is because no one wants to see actual violence done to a woman. That's right. Right.
And the only reason that scene in Kill Bill where she gets shot is even passable is because you already know she's going to survive. That's well established. She's alive and it's in black and white. Right. Her face is bloodied and beaten, but you can't see any of that because it's black and white. And you know that she survived. So it can't be that bad. No. One would ever tolerate a scene like that. Nor should we. Right, but we would, we wouldn't like it from a man.
But like when you see John Wick being tied up and tortured, you know what I mean? It's like he's the hero. And men, we expect that from men. You don't torture women. Right. You mean you didn't connect to the scene where she's buried alive and she's three inches away and she's punching her. Way out of the. Stupid man. So stupid, so dumb. But it's that kind of like chop socky come. Like it's like I can willingly, like. Yeah, willingly suspended. Suspension of disbelief to the backs. Exactly.
That she kicks the door open and he blasts her in the chest and she goes flying backwards from salt. Like what? Right, but that character, what's his name, the Billy Budd who lives in the trailer. Oh, I can't. But I think that's the character. Yeah, he's one of the Fox Force flyer. He's the one who pulls the trigger. And so you see him get. Doesn't he get bitten in the face by the snake? That's right. That's right. So the, the violence and the whole.
And the shock horror, I guess of that is the payoff for the terrible acts that he's committed. And so being sensitive to that pattern in films, but then applying that to understand the sins that you've committed in your life and the justice that you deserve. This is these principles are woven into us as beings and we project them in large, like literally project them in large format on a screen that you're watching. You've sinned against the Holy God. What do you deserve from him? Right.
But you don't necessarily have to receive that. You don't think that way when you're sitting in the movie theater. You know, I've never thought that way until now. Right. But that's real. We're seeing reflected in a sense. It's like taken from us. Because the biblical stories by David Ries is like giving a full on sermon right now. I don't know if you've been listening to what he's been saying. Policy to avoid while out of power.
Proverbs 30, 22, 32, 30. I mean, he's like talking about sovereignty and all this stuff anyway. So it's like in a sense like the awareness of these things has been taken from us because we should be learning this out of the Bible. But we're not learning it out of the Bible anymore. We're learning it in a Twisted and demented form from Hollywood. That's right. Yeah. And if you're not tethered to the Bible, you'll believe in anything. You can believe anything. That's true. Yeah, that's true.
That's right. And people. And then movies will train you to think, however the directors. And you'll essentially be indoctrinated to believe whatever the story writers believe. Yes. Because every movie has a message. That's right. And the question is, what is the message? And how does it stack up to actual truth, which can only come from the Bible. That's right. That's right.
And that's not to say that while so many films borrow from the Bible, like Braveheart, what is Braveheart but a Christ story? Yeah. That's literally what it is. It's not even. I mean, it's only marginally close to history, you know, but it's like a young chosen boy goes and trains and comes back and, you know, gets his disciples together and gives it like. That's exciting. I mean, there's a reason why Jesus told parables. There's a reason why God.
I mean, the narrative and the canon of Scripture is a giant story. And I don't mean that in, like a mythological. But God is a storyteller. That's right, he is. So there is significance there. And one of our other taglines is you must know Christ to understand story, because without good and evil, without a narrative, there can't be a story. Right. So that's, you know. Yeah, but there's a whole pattern happening now in films where you do have the antihero. You have the movie, like Joker. Right.
Or the guy from. Have you seen Drive with Ryan Gosling? Or the. Or Christian Bale from American Psycho? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the. I think it's either Millennial or Zoomer Men have this whole collection of lone nut, you know, sigma males. You know what I mean? But I think that the whole antihero is a corruption. I agree. Of the actual order in which it's a chaotic. It's just a chaotic narrative. Right. And I think that if we're gonna.
If we're gonna lean more into virtue as opposed to vice, then you are gonna have a more, you know, God is a God of order. Right. You know, we have. We have. We have order and structure. And when you. When you start to see those types of corruptions, there's foul play. Sure. And, you know, and when you get into chaos and different things, you know who the father of chaos is. Right. So. Of course. So, yeah, I Totally agree.
It's tough because I think the flesh likes the antihero a little bit, though. Yes. The flesh kind of likes it, and there's something raw and relatable. But I think that's the lie, right? I think that's the lie. Yeah. Who sows chaos right in the. That would seem virtuous within the bounds of story, but that isn't. That's a really good point, actually. Cause a lot of these Sigma Male guys, they do focus on the antihero.
You know, the Joker is the great example, but again, Christian Bale or even Deadpool. Deadpool. You know, like, it's tough because if I'm being honest, I really am drawn to those movies. The Marvel movies? No, no, not the Marvel movies. Just Deadpool's character and. But I'm not convinced I should be. No. I watch clips on YouTube from the recent Deadpool vs. Wolverine. Yeah. And it's so vulgar. It is. It's very. So vulgar. And it's so violent and it's so graphic. And I'm so.
I don't know that I could actually sit through the entire film. Yeah. But it's like. But I would like to. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, I did. And it's. Everything you said. Just said it is. And I watched clips of the Gambit. You know what I mean? It's like, what a fun character. What is he saying? Yeah. You just. You know. And I know I didn't see this one, but what's the newest Doctor Strange? I stopped watching Marvel after Endgame. But there's, of course, like, everyone did.
Yeah. And there's a new Doctor Strange movie and just the sorcery. And it's like you kind of. The new age, you know. You know a lot about the New age stuff, and I'm sure there's tons of that in that. You. And I remember there being a few things in the first one. Like, it's. It's Dr. Strange going into the Dark Dimension to confront Dormammu. Yeah, that's right. And it's a loop. It's a loop.
But there's a scene where the Enlightened One or whatever character, like, punches his soul out of his body. Open your eye. So open your eyes. You know, chakra, third eye kind of thing. But then that entire sequence is like. It's just. That's what an ayahuasca trip looks like. So very clearly the designers or something had done drugs to create those. Those graphics. That's what that is. Right. And so, you know, I wanted to comment on that.
In fact, I want to start doing more reaction videos to some of the stuff that's out there and point out that's what this is. Because people don't recognize. I see it because, you know, but these values are being put through story and with hyper powerful graphics. Yeah, yeah. What are your. So obviously we have to follow our convictions. You know, if we don't. If we don't follow our convictions, we're in sin. Yeah. So how, what is your opinion on engaging with that kind of content?
Can you say just never watch it and maybe border like Christian retreatism or from entertainment object? Obviously I'm trying to be clear here. Follow your convictions. Right, sure. And I know that that line is going to be very different for everybody, but in order to react to something, you have to see it and be knowledgeable of it and to be up to date. So what do you think? How best can we do that in your opinion? Well, I mean, I would just say like as a content creator, it's a little.
It's different than an everyday consumer passively. Passively? Yeah. For me, like I don't watch movies, I don't watch Netflix, I don't watch tv. Like I listen, like. And I'm not, I'm not advocating this for others. I just mean for myself. I've always been hyper sensitive to media and so like I've never been able to watch a horror movie because I'm way too sensitive to it. Right. So I don't engage with that stuff. And I just don't. I can't, you know, I will watch commentary.
There's a great guy, Rock Rob Ager, collative learning on YouTube. You'd really like his stuff. Actually all he does is in depth analysis of film and sometimes video games and tv. But he's brilliant. I'll watch that. It takes a lot to get me to watch a film nowadays. As a content creator though, my thought is that I can spot things that are in these that are intentionally. It's not just a coincidence. I can spot things that I think people need to see. I'll give you a good example.
I don't know what it is, but I downloaded it from the Internet. It was a cartoon that tells the story of Satan and Lilith. Right. And it's sort of talking. It talks a little bit about God and it's pure Gnosticism. It's all of this and it's like it's done in a kid's style of animation. Maybe it might be Adult Swim, like for adults, but like it's still kind of. It's a card. It is very much a cartoon. And I watch that. It's like, I don't know how long it is. Maybe it's five minutes.
Animated sequence. It looks like the introduction to a series. I'm sure I can find out what it is. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, I know what every single one of those comments means. It's terrifying. And none of it is any good. From the very second sentence of the script. It takes a bible story and then slides it and tries to position it as good. And it's like, I look at that and I know what all that means. Someone else may, like, what does all that mean?
I can tell you exactly what that means. And that's what they're showing to your kids. And so I think for that, yes, but like, I wouldn't just put it out there. Just like, I'm just gonna create a piece of content. It's like, you need to see what's going on here. Avatar movie. Avatar is another great example. Nature worship, you know. Yeah. Hatred of. Hatred of men and masculinity and the father. Hatred of capitalism. Worship of the planet. Yeah. You know, all this different stuff. All this stuff.
Yeah. We have avatar and Avatar 2 on our podcast. Oh, you've done them already? Yeah, I haven't seen Avatar 2. How was that? I think it was. I think it was better than the first one in terms of our values, from our worldview. I've heard that there was, there was a really actual, really good thread of the father figure. I heard that. But you still have the, you know, the, the worship of nature and, you know, we're all one, you know, in one way, spiritually, one or another.
We feed off each other and. Yeah, that's. That's tough. It is, it is. Well, that's why I'm grateful that your podcast exists because I think like, there's both a prophylactic, as in, like, maybe you can watch a little bit of, you know, maybe you can do like spoiler free versions like, hey, if you're going into this, keep these things in mind. Who. Someone won a drawing, I guess keep these things in mind. And then there's like, when you're done watching it, then you can unpack it from there.
So you can send people there to prepare people for what they're going to watch is better than not at all. But then also, like, someone could be really troubled. Like, I saw this film, I didn't know much about it. I watched the whole thing, and I was really troubled by it, but I can't put my finger on what. Oh, the watch. Well, guys, they. That's what was bothering me. I love that. Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you, man. You've been a blessing to me. Oh, thank you.
We're just looking up to you as a content creator, and we're trying to learn the best we can, you know, and this is not just flattery. No, this is genuine, man. Thank you. No, and I'm very blessed by that because, you know that I'm such an enthusiastic supporter of what you do. So it's like. It's a fantastic idea, and I'm grateful that Nick put that into a blog. And I didn't know what to do with it or didn't put a blog. And I don't know what to do with it. It's like. Because this is.
He planted a seed, and. And this is a real. This is what should be done with it, and it's really needed. The idea was so far long ago, and now it's here, and we're doing the best we can. And again, you've been gracious to us, so we appreciate it. Please keep it up, because I see a big success for this, and I want it to be successful. So I'm grateful to talk with you and share. Thanks, Will. Cheers, buddy.