ADAM COLEMAN | Don't Fear the Mob: Navigating Faith and Influence

Hello, my name is Will Spencer, and welcome to the Will Spencer Podcast. This is a weekly show featuring in depth conversations with authors, leaders and influencers who help us understand our changing world. New episodes release every Friday.

My guest this week is Adam Coleman, founder of Wrong Speak publishing, contributor to the New York Post, Newsweek, and Daily Mail, and the author of From Black Victim to Black Identifying the ideologies, behavioral patterns, and cultural norms that encourage a victimhood complex. Having a social media platform carries real responsibility. Sure, there's always the temptation to post hot takes, crying videos, or pure clickbait.

And if you think engagement is a drug, influence is something else entirely. But behind every social media post, or human beings, lots of them, yes, there are bots, federal agents, and trolls who want you gone. But mixed in are actual people made in God's image, who we can edify, inspire, and even lead to Christ. This January, I wrote a tweet about India that got 23 million views. For context, a typical tweet, like about the laundry gets around 1500 views. A good one might hit 5 or 6000.

Something viral might reach tens or even hundreds of thousands. But 23 million? That's the entire population of Florida, which means my tweet went truly global. That tweet, by God's grace, doubled my Twitter followers overnight to 28,000. Combined with Instagram and YouTube, it's given me a mega microphone and a significant status. I've been soul searching about this power to reach millions with something I wrote at a burger shop. Now I've concluded that a platform is God's gift.

No one can force a viral tweet. It's God's sovereignty. Working through the algorithm, he chooses what spreads and who sees it, including you. Right now. Maybe that's too granular, but I see no other way to view it, especially when believing that work is worship, which I do. In other words, I see your attention as a gift that I'm called to steward. You could be doing literally anything else right now, so thank you very much for being here.

The question then becomes, what am I going to do with that attention? In a way that glorifies God, the temptation of social media is to glorify ourselves, our opinions, our wit, our bodies, our wealth, and more. But a post Millennial mindset calls us to build Christ's kingdom online as much as anywhere, starting with how and why we speak through these digital microphones. It's a bit like the question, if I pull the sword from the stone, will I become a tyrant?

Social media instead asks, with this platform, will I speak the truth in love. Which brings me back to my guest, Adam Coleman. Despite Wrong Speak's name, he's not trying to be provocative. He's thoughtful, wanting to humanize social media and extend more grace. He encourages men taking responsibility for what we post. Now, some might say this approach will fail when it's easier to attack those we disagree with, but Adam's massive Twitter following suggests otherwise.

Through Wrong Speak publishing, Adam is meeting a crucial need. He demonstrates that speaking the truth in love can still have an impact when it's seasoned with salt, so to speak. It's like a combination of the earthly and the divine, which I think is a model that will edify, inspire, and perhaps even sanctify us. If you enjoy this podcast, thank you. Please leave us a five star rating on Spotify and Apple podcasts and share your favorite episode with a friend to support us financially.

You can become a paid [email protected] for ad free interviews and other perks or click Buy Me a Coffee in the show Notes. But most importantly, please support our advertisers. Your purchases will help build multigenerational wealth in the Christian community as we work to rebuild a Christian foundation for the West. One quick note before we begin. There were some recording errors that my platform couldn't repair. While they're mostly minor, some listeners might notice them.

I considered re recording, but there are some powerful moments here that really show who Adam is. Moments I didn't think we could recapture. Lightning in a bottle, you might say. So I chose to keep this conversation intact, trusting that the truth will shine through. Let me know if you think this was the right call at infoon of men.com and please welcome this week's guest on the podcast, the founder of Wrong Speak Publishing and the author of From Black Victim to Black Victor Adam Coleman.

Adam, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today. My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me on. We followed each other on Twitter for a while and I think last week we connected over some political stuff and I just reached out on a lark to see if you wanted to come on and have a chat and this week turned out to be the good one. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I've gone through a lot of your writing and your tweets and I think we have a lot of great stuff to talk about.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to. Actually, I'm glad that you did reach out. So I think the first question that I wanted to start with is I actually have a lot of questions about your book because we're in this hypercharged political environment where we have, on one side, we have victim ideologies in all of its various forms. On one side of the political equation, it feels like, and on the other side of the political equation, we have personal empowerment, self development, self determination.

And it seems like these attitudes have super crystallized on both the left and the right. And into that you have this book that's speaking right into an experience of the black community that I think a lot of people need to hear. So I wonder if we can just start by talking about what inspired the book and kind of what's in it and also the success you've had with it. Yeah. So what inspired it, I guess, is the events of George Floyd.

Not necessarily his death, but the reaction to his death and the narratives that kind of spring from it. And it was one of the first times where I felt like I wasn't allowed to express myself. Rather than me choosing not to express myself, the book became a. What's the best word I'm looking for? I guess it became a byproduct of finally finding my voice. I initially went on to different free speech forums to first find out if I'm crazy. Like, am I the only one who sees, like, this is bullshit?

Am I the only one that's trying to make sense of this? And I was able to articulate it well. And I got encouragement from people to write more often because of it. And I remember having an idea of writing book as like a legacy thing for my son, but I didn't know what to write about. And so I was like, I think this is it. You know, a matter of fact, one of the people who's encouraging me was a pastor. I believe he was out in Illinois.

He was very supportive of my writings and he encouraged me too. And though people understand at the time, I wouldn't necessarily have. I was just coming out of being agnostic and willing to acknowledge that God exists. But I wasn't. I wasn't a Christian at that point. So having, and this is a reoccurring theme since then, having Christians reach out to me in a heartfelt way was extremely beneficial throughout this particular journey.

But just as a side note, but that's kind of what started the journey to writing a book. It took me about nine months, start to finish. I self published it. I had zero expectations. My background's in id. I was an IT manager for small business. My career was going fine. I wasn't trying to switch careers or do anything like that. I just wanted to write a book. And I would have been happy if, you know, 20 people outside of my friends and family bought it and liked it.

And, you know, the 20 people have turned into thousands since and, you know, turned into writing opportunities from major publications. Actually, just before we came on here, I just got the final edit for my latest piece for the Europe Post. You know, and writing for them for the past two years has been, like, an unsuspected blessing. One of the funny things, while I was writing the book, I had a friend that I was talking to on Facebook, and she was like, you should.

You should write an article for the New York Post. And I was like, it would never have me. You know, it's just like. And. And what's hilarious about connecting with New York Post, I was even trying to. It was kind of accident. I had an article that was rejected somewhere else, and I was like, maybe the New York Post have me. And I just name dropped somebody. And that's how it all began. So, yeah. So to kind of answer your question, that's how I initially started.

Expectations were extremely low, and they're still low, which is why I'm always happy, because I expect nothing from this. And I've just been blessed for the past number of years now, since 2020, and all the people that I've come across and opportunities and places that I've gone because of it. There's so much in that answer that I want to ask about, including, like, the headspace that you were in during 2020. I was in a similar space.

I wasn't a Christian yet, but the events around George Floyd kind of played into that. The process of writing the book, like, what you felt you were crazy about, but then also kind of the process of going from like an IT manager at a small company to a public figure. Like, that wasn't something that you were seeking. And I imagine maybe I'll ask about that first. It wasn't something that maybe came naturally to you, or was it?

You know, it's very interesting because while writing the book, obviously, like, the pandemic is going on. I'm watching the news, and everything's crazy. Yeah, people are being canceled and all this other stuff. I didn't tell anybody that I was writing my book, except for a handful of people. I didn't even tell my mother. I didn't tell my sister. I didn't tell any of my family. My wife knew, a couple of my friends knew. And I would send them bits and pieces of chapters.

I was Writing as I was writing it, see what they thought. But after that, I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell my job. I didn't tell anyone. And throughout that time, I was mentally prepared. And I also let my. She's my wife now, but she's my girlfriend at the time. I let her know that there's possibility I could lose my job because of this. You know, there may be people who are going to be really pissed off with me who want to leave me. Friends, family, I don't know.

But I was so comfortable with myself that I was okay with that. I felt the need. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. It's okay if I do this, because if I don't do it, I feel like I'll be letting myself down in many ways letting my son down. So as far as preparing myself to be a public figure, I was comfortable because I had settled with the idea of receiving public scrutiny months prior to even publishing the book, and even personal scrutiny. I was prepared for that.

And I was okay with that by the time the book was published. So when I get people who come after me, usually it's not even for the book. It's some weirdos online. But when I get racial hatred, when I get, you know, calling and stuff like that, I am so comfortable with myself and what I say in my decisions. Not that I'm always right, but I'm saying it for particular reason. I could be wrong, but I'm so comfortable with myself that these things don't bother me whatsoever.

And for people to understand my background, where I. Where I've come from and all the things that I've overcome personally, like losing my job wouldn't be the first time I lost my job. And I'm still here and I'm okay. Losing some friends wouldn't be the first time I lost some friends. It's okay. I'm still here. Your mean words on the Internet for stranger that I don't know, you know, it's like that. These things don't bother me whatsoever. So I don't fear the mob.

I don't fear being canceled or anything like that. And even more so that now that I'm a Christian, I am. I'm especially fearless because I know Jesus Christ is bomb side. And even looking back, I know he's always been there. So, yeah, I wasn't prepared necessarily to be a public figure because I didn't. I didn't think I would find anywhere close to the success that I've been. I've Been blessed to have, but I wasn't afraid of it either. Well, praise God. I can relate to some of that.

I came out of the new age and sort of the spiritual communities, and I had a feeling that speaking up on behalf of Christ would be costly. But I knew who I was. I knew what I had been through. I knew what I had to say.

And when you have that unshakable inner core of self knowledge, like real self knowledge, acknowledges the good and the bad and the past and all these things, it's much easier to speak up on behalf of these things because, as you said, you know, the mean words on the Internet, they don't really land. And that's the real virtue of integrity, right? Yeah, exactly. When you're.

When you're secure with yourself, like all these things, like, I've become very, very aware of people who are insecure because I've been insecure. Yeah. And we're insecure. The outside world bothers you, right? The outside world can sway your emotions easily. How you gain value is off of something that you bought, off of what someone says to you. You know, it's. Everything is external. If women validate you, you know, everything is external.

And so when you're comfortable with yourself and you're confident, which. Which I am, you know, which took me decades to even come to this point, like, those things don't bother me. You know, those things bother me. Like, I am not. I'm not desperate for this. I'm not desperate for that. Even when I was dating my wife, I wasn't desperate that she wouldn't leave. I wasn't. I wasn't feeling that particular way. I was confident.

And I was saying I was doing things like saying I was actually vetting my wife. And we've talked about this, so this is not new to her. But I asked her particular questions because I wanted to know. Because I want to marry her, but I wanted to know for sure that this is what she wants, because this is what I want. So we need to be on the same page. But I had never done it before because I was always insecure. I was. Well, whatever she wants, I don't want her to leave. Right.

Everything is in reaction to that. So I just say all that to say that I'm completely comfortable with myself. I'm comfortable with what I put out there. And I kind of welcome the people who criticize me because often the criticisms are unfounded criticisms. They're not legitimate. They're not pointing out where I actually was wrong. And they make sense. Oh, okay, yeah, I was wrong here. They're usually just attacks, and I call it the attacking the Avatar. Right. They're not attacking you.

They're attacking what you represent. And so I don't. I especially then, I don't take a personal. You know, you always know when they're taking the Avatar, when they attack something that you never said, you never claimed. You know, things like that. It's like, oh, okay, I see what's happening here. So, yeah. One of the things that I read on one of your Twitter threads was that you actually, you hadn't seen your father since you were 16, or maybe he had passed away when you were 16.

And so that's a pretty remarkable accomplishment to be able to find that inner self, knowing that confidence, and growing up fatherless and then to have your father pass away. This is. This is brilliant because I look to talk to men who have been through this journey. It's. It's one that I think many other men, many, many other men need to go on.

So maybe can you talk a little bit about how you develop that confidence, going from essentially a fatherless situation to finding yourself in this place? Because more men need to figure out how to get themselves to where you are. Like I said, it took decades. I spent the vast majority of my life feeling unsure about myself, questioning myself, insecure, not trusting myself. You know, I've told people, you know, I turned 40 August 1st. Happy birthday. Thank you.

I told someone I probably didn't become a man until I was about 34. Right. And people are like, what do you mean by that? But like, where I felt. I started feeling. Sure. In myself, like, what I was doing, you know, so as far as that. That particular journey, there were. There were big pivotal points. Two of those points was therapy. I. I was suffering from panic attacks at one point at a job that I was. That I had at a telecommunications company.

And I went on leave because, you know, my job was to help me, you know, to alter my role, you know, to kind of alleviate the stress that I was feeling. And then one day I was at home, and I knew I needed to leave to do something like an errand. And I felt scared to leave my house. And it was the first time I ever felt scared. Not lazy, but just, like, scared. And I said, oh, no, that's not good. And so I immediately looked for a therapist. And I went to that therapist for a number of months.

But my first sessions, I think for the first month, I went three times a week, if I remember correctly. Wow. Because every time I Went because I thought I was going there because of my job. But every time I went, I was going way back in my past for things that were unresolved. And I was. I think I cried in every session for three weeks straight, like, yeah. And the person that was my therapist at the time, she was very motherly. And I felt comfortable doing that in front of her.

But I needed to go through that. I needed to resolve these things, needed to not have extreme anger or resentment or anything towards my father. You know, I had some issues with my mother as well, and I had to learn to kind of deal with some of these things as well. So, you know, therapy was a really big step. Another big thing for me was I had. I mean, there's just so much, so many things, because it took such a long time. But one of the big, pivotal things was actually I had social anxiety.

But I didn't realize I had social anxiety. It just felt like it was part of me. Like, it, you know, oh, I'm just like this, you know, so you don't even question it. And it wasn't until after a bad breakup, I had moved back home. And I was like, you know what? Let me try to rediscover myself, because I felt lost in that relationship. You know, it's one of those relationships where you did everything she wanted to do.

You were around her family, everything surrounding her life, and then all that's taken away. You don't know who you are. Like, what do I even like doing? So to kind of like, rediscover myself and my interests and things like that. I was curious about learning German, so I started learning German. And then I always wanted to go to Europe, so I planned a trip to go to Europe. And I was like, I'm going. And you know, the kind of the cliff version after. I wasn't supposed to go alone.

I was supposed to go with someone. They weren't able to go, but I still had bought my ticket on. I was like, I'm still going, but bouncing around Europe by myself where everything is different. I've never been to anywhere. At these places I know anyone. And accomplishing all that. And when I came back home, I felt at peace because what I didn't realize, it was kind of like throw me in the deep end. And I learned how to swim in that particular way. And I wasn't afraid of water.

And so after experiencing that, I was kind of like, I'm not scared, and I want to go through that feeling of discovering new things. And so I just kept traveling I kept traveling, and then I'd go to new places, and then I would meet people and I became friends with people, and then I would go back to the same places. So, like, I've been to Berlin six, seven times, made friends with some people there, to Barcelona three or four times. I can't remember now. That's how many times I've been.

I just lose track, you know, I've been to a bunch of different places on repeat because I met people.

And then I've had a couple of fortunate situations where some of those people actually came to the United States and I hosted them at my home, you know, so, like, I've made really good connections with people, and that's when I really started understanding one not to be scared of the world, and teaching my son not to be scared of the world and learning that there's more to this than just myself, because it's about the. It's about the connections. It's about the human connections.

You know, I had a travel blog for a short period of time, and the subtitle was It's About Human Connection. And I really started to understand that. And for me, traveling wasn't a superficial thing where I come back to people, all the places that I went and take Instagram photos, but I went back to places because I really like these people. I wanted to learn more about the people. I had deep conversations with individuals that I met one time and never saw again.

You know, it's so many profound experiences, so many stories just from traveling by myself that, you know, I. I'm so grateful that I was able to experience. And now I get to share that with my wife, who never traveled before me, and the way. Especially in the way that I travel, and she's got me, my friends, and then obviously doing stuff like this. I've met an Italian friend that I met from Twitter after doing all this, and we went to Milan and they showed us around.

And then my wife had to go to Milan for work, and they met up, and I'm not even there. And so we have these Italian friends who are like, yes, please come show you around. You know, it's. It's the beauty of humanity. And I feel like sometimes we don't cherish that, but there's so many good people who are out there. There's so many deep connections that we can develop, and it's enriching to the soul.

Amen. Well, this, I think my listeners will probably understand that in some ways, it feels like a little bit like looking into a mirror, slightly Because a lot of this is my story as well. Spent a couple of years in therapy, crying every week, grieving essentially, over which I think is a very natural thing to do for both men and women to grieve. But we have so few places to do it.

There's a great book by Robert Bly called Iron John, which sort of started the men's movement way back in the 80s, and he talks about grief as a doorway to men's deep feeling. And men need space to grieve over our losses. We take losses or we grow up in an environment where we lose and we have to. We get a chance to grieve that. But there are no spaces for men to do that. So the conversation around men's vulnerability involves showing more emotion, et cetera.

Yes, but really that needs to be expressed in the form of grief, privately private grieving. And that opens up so much inner freedom for men to feel. And then I can also relate very much to travel because that was my story as well. Going and testing myself against the world. Less so with the deep connections and more climbing mountains and sailing oceans. But I recommend travel to men if they can take the opportunity to go and find out who they are with really no constraints. It's a great.

It can be a great teacher if you approach it the right way respectfully, not for self aggrandizement, which of course I'm sure you know, is a great deal of travelers out there. So what an incredible story that. That you got to do those things. And I guess regarding the human connections in your travel blog, you know, one of the things that I noticed was that, like, there aren't a lot of African Americans traveling. Like, I was on the road for a while.

So what was that like for you, going out there into the world? Because one of the things I found is there's such intense curiosity about Americans in so many places. Did you find that as well with your experience coming from America? So it's very interesting because I never felt different when I would travel other than they saw me as an American. Like, they didn't. Race was never really a thing that kind of came up or anything like that.

As soon as they found that I was American, you know, they lit up. And I think sometimes we take granted, like, a lot of people like Americans just by default because they like American music or movies or whatever. And so I literally had. I went. I went to a spa in Turkey and before lady started massaging, she was like, where are you from? I said, america. She's like, I love America. She was, big hug. I was like, okay.

You know, I couldn't imagine in the United States someone saying anywhere outside of the United States and, like, I love that place. Giving them a big hug, you know? But. But as far as how I. How I felt, honestly, it's the most American I've ever felt. Traveling abroad, you really see. Love it. There are so many things that are cultural that is uniquely American, and our sensibility is uniquely American that we don't realize because we never leave that environment.

But once you leave that environment, you're like, people move differently here. People dress differently here. You know, how they approach things is different here now. So it's very. It's very interesting. And sometimes, even if you try really hard not to be a fish out of water, you kind of are a fish out of water. Like, you just stick out in certain places especially. But, yeah, I mean, I definitely feel very American.

You know, when you go to certain places, they might expect you to be rich because you're American. Yep. Other places, they're curious with you. You know, when I was in Germany, it was so hard speaking German people, because they always wanted to speak English to me. They could tell from my accent while speaking German that I'm American, so. Or if they see me struggle, they automatically switch to English and just, you know, don't let me suffer through it. So there's.

This is so much that I learned about how people see America. What do they think? You know, I had this one taxi driver. He's. Where are you from? And I said, america. He's like, donald Trump is the worst president. I was like, what the fuck? Like, he just went off, and I was just like, all right. And I started laughing, like, we don't. It's so funny because we're so. We're so insulated here. We know nothing about the outside world, theoretically speaking.

Like, for many of us, we don't even know where certain countries are nevertheless, their political system, but everyone is focused on our politics. And everywhere I went, I would try to have political conversations with people. Like, good, faithful conversations, or if they were curious about American culture, what's like. And I'll give them my honest perspective about what I felt about this and what I felt about that. And it was very refreshing.

It was very refreshing to have these particular experiences and then to learn from them. You know, I remember having tapas with this woman from Australia. We talked about politics for, like, two hours, about American politics, Australian politics, and differences between the two, and how much more fascinating for us it is. I mean, Much more fascinating our political system is compared to theirs and things like that. So it's just, it was very eye opening.

But to kind of answer your question, I've never felt more American until I leave United States. Like, it's very obvious that I'm an American. So that's. So does that mean, just to make sure I'm clear on the answer, does that mean that you don't feel like an American here, but you feel like an American there? Or like you're suddenly aware from the rest of the world's perspective, we're all just Americans and they don't really distinguish between different types. Okay, beautiful.

Yeah. Well, to kind of add to that, in the United States, especially these days with the race rhetoric and stuff like that, you are pushed to see yourself as a hyphenated American. But when I leave the country, no one says, oh, you're a black American or you're an African American or you're some sort of hyphen. No, you're an American. Yeah, that's true. Like that, that's it. That's how they see it. And they feel that it's bizarre to see yourself otherwise.

Like, no, you're, you're clearly American. And so that's why I, for a bit after, after going back and forth between Europe and United States, I felt kind of upset that I'm not seen as purely American. I'm, I'm a. I have a hyphen next to my status when I'm here, you know, and that kind of, that actually kind of bothered me for a bit. But now it's. It. That's what it is. But I, I do enjoy being seen. And actually there is a level of status, you understand this.

There's a level of status being an American just by default. And I kind of enjoyed that status of just being an American. Not. There's no hyphen or anything like that. That is a special feel. That is a special feeling. So. So when you come back to the United States, do you feel like that you have to put on the hyphen? That's, that's the expectation of you, or do you feel like that's just a cultural thing that's in the water? Because my identity hierarchy is probably similar to yours.

Like, I'm a Christian, I'm a man, I'm an American, and then I'm literally everything else. Right. And so it sounds the same for you, but sometimes people want to force the others identity hierarchies to be somewhat different from that. Like, no, no, I'm this first. So do you feel like people force that on you and you just want to be like, I'm just an American? Yeah. Especially when I was growing up. Not even, you know, when I was a kid.

Obviously, I'm not thinking about patriotism, but I always just saw, like, I. Myself, like, I'm. I'm just me. I'm not trying to be the stereotype. I'm not trying to be this. Like, I'm just trying to feel comfortable. And especially when you. You spend so long feeling uncomfortably like you're always searching to be comfortable. But, man, if I found something I like, I just like it, you know, if. You know, how I speak was put under question. The music I listened to was put under question.

How I dress is put under question. You know, all these different things. You know, when I remember when I was in high school, people sometimes say to me, oh, they were calling white Adam. Right? It's that kind of. Also, I'm not even black anymore. I'm just. I'm just black. I'm just white now, you know, because I don't fill in the stereotype of what they're comfortable with. And that was the thing. It's always about someone else's comfort. It's never in consideration to how I feel.

But you're talking about me, and so it's kind of like shaming me for feeling comfortable doing certain things in it and expressing myself in a particular way or listening to a particular music or following this particular sport or dating this particular person. You know, I've dated. My wife is black, but my son is biracial. I wasn't trying to have a biracial child. I wasn't saying I only like this. You know, I wasn't doing. I just liked her. She. You know, we liked each other. That was it.

We were two human beings, man and woman, and we liked each other. And sometimes you get accused because you don't fit into the stereotype that you must be rejecting this. You must be. You don't want to be black. You don't want to be. This. You don't want to do. It's like, no, I. I'm just going towards what I'm comfortable with. I'm comfortable with all different types of things.

And I think there are so many people who are pigeonholed into feeling like they must appease to this racial order, racial expectation, that even. Even the people who are trying to appease it have no idea where the. Where the guidelines are. Like, you know, I remember my wife was on this Facebook Group. And it was. I think it was primarily black women. And they were asking. I can't remember the activity, but they asked the question. And these are adults. Just keep that in mind.

These are adults and they ask the question, do black people do this? Now, they were asking the question because they liked it. And I just thought, that is so strange. It is so strange that a grown person who likes doing something is asking, do black people do this? So if everybody said no, would you stop doing the thing that you actually like or interested in? Like, that is the intention. I got it. Yeah. That. It's so. It's so bizarre. But it's like.

It's like this air of expectation because I happen to have darker skin than you. It's such a weird, weird phenomenon that exists here that thankfully doesn't exist elsewhere. Not in the same way, at least, I should say. So I can relate to this as well in my own way because I grew up Jewish. And so, you know, when I decided that I didn't want to adhere to any of the Jewish cultural stereotypes and became a Christian, no longer Jewish, I mean, we could talk about that.

But it's like, okay, I'm leaving this behind. But the expectations are still tugging at me. No, I'm not interested. Like, I'm doing this other thing. But then out there in the world, it's like, no, you're Jewish. You're supposed to be like this. Like, no, I'm nothing like that. Right. And so, like, it's this strange position where it's like, the people for where we come from have expectations of us. The people where we're going to, let's say, have expectations.

Like, no, I'm none of those things. Can you please just relate to me like, the person to person? It's a. I'm grateful to hear you. To hear you say that, because I can relate to in that moment, like, why are you asking me this question? Meaning the woman on the Facebook page, like, you know, black people like this. Like, well, what difference does it make? Who cares? Who cares? And that's. See, for me, I've always just been. I like people.

You know, I understand people and don't care if you're white, black, Hispanic, Asian. I don't care if you're young or old. I care about what's your heart. Like, are you a good person? There's so many people that I've met who do not look like me, who are coming from different places, but I understand them. If I tell a quick story, please. The first time I was. I Went to Istanbul. I went on this boat ride. I forgot the name of the main river that goes through Istanbul.

I'll probably butcher it if I try to say it, but I went on this boat ride, and there was a family from Uzbekistan that was there, and they were. I could tell they were friendly, and they kind of came up to. It was me. And one of the first kind of came up to us, and we interacted with each other, but they couldn't speak English. Like, there was one of them that spoke very, very broken English. Like, she just knew a couple words here and there. Couldn't reform a full conversation.

So we were pulling out Google Translate. But there was a very human moment, when I think about it, we. We were able to communicate. Hey, after the boat ride, let's have lunch together. And they were like, okay. So they understood what we were trying to do. We left the boat, and it was a little bit windy. And I could see the mother because it was. It was a mother, two daughters who were like, probably like early 20s. They look like twins.

And then there was another daughter who's a little older, maybe in her late 20s, early 30s. And then one of the daughters had a baby, a baby boy who's probably, like, I say baby, but very young, like a toddler. And we're all. They're all walking as a family. And I see the mother kind of like going like this, holding herself. And I took off my jacket and I put it on her shoulder. And I don't speak Uzbek. She doesn't speak English. But I could see as a human being, I could tell she's cold.

And I'm showing her a nice gesture by putting this on her so she's not as cold. And I'll sacrifice my warmth for her to feel warm for a minute as we walked to this restaurant. And, you know, stuff like that where I was like, I'm not trying to appease someone. I'm not trying to, you know, did I give her my coat in the blackest way possible? You know, I'm just. She's just a human being, and it's in who is cold. And I'm willing to sacrifice my warmth so she can feel warm. You know, it's that.

It's that type of stuff where I think we. We often lose track of that. Like, especially dealing with politics, we lose. We lose track of humanity. Like, people just become like names. They're no longer people with feelings and emotions. They just want names. And so because they're a name, you can just slice part the name you can. You can defame the name. You can call whatever you want. You can make memes of the name. They're not really people that feel anything. And you know what?

They should expect to feel this. Right. It's that kind of dehumanization that exists that I don't like about my particular space, but obviously it's always existed. I think that's why I was wondering about the transition from being sort of an IT manager at a small company to being a public figure is once you start doing that, you cross over into the realm of actually having your name torn apart in public. And it's. It's quite a lot to endure. Like, it's.

It's part of the job, you know, and any other. Every job has its downsides. And being a public figure, talking about politics or race or all these different things and whatever the subject is of the day, like, you're going to get torn apart because that's the arena. And so it can be difficult going.

Being the kind of man going from private, you know, private citizen to public figure, and being subject to all the pressures and all the vitriol that comes with being a public figure kind of overnight. And so that's why I asked about the strength, where the strength had come from to be able to endure that. And I hear that. I hear a lot of my own story reflect on it, as I said, with grieving through therapy and then testing oneself by a travel.

And I can relate very much to the way that that actually prepares you for the arena. Even though, like, you weren't setting out to get into the arena, neither was I. Like, I didn't have it on my mind like, that I'd be a podcaster. Like, what? So I honor you for your story. I mean, it's incredible that you can bring that.

That presence and that sense of, I guess, adventure and experimentation, because especially with our hypercharged, you know, divided America, we as Americans have trouble seeing ourselves. And by popping out to these other countries and seeing how they see us and almost forgetting ourselves in a way, when I've come back to America, it gave me a whole different perspective on my own country to be able to say, hey, here are some things I've learned that maybe can help heal the situation.

Maybe you can relate to that. Yeah, absolutely. I think one of. Because I remember you had traveled to India number of times, correct? Okay, one time for a long time. Run time for a long time. That's right. So I would imagine. I've never been to India, but I would imagine going to A place like that and coming back home makes you more grateful of the things that you have because you're seeing people who have, who don't have, like, it's just basic necessities. Excuse me.

I've been to Jamaica, but we didn't stay at a resort, so I got to see real Jamaica. Granted, we didn't go to Kingston, which is very dangerous, especially for someone who's not from there. We went to Montego Bay and I got to see what it's like for people, for children to beg. I got to see a little bit of desperation. I got to see markets that have dirt floors. I got to see that stuff, you know, cars that are barely running on the, on the, you know, driving around. So I got to see those things.

Cops walking around with shotguns, which kind of blew my mind, you know. So I got to see all these different things and then come back home. And it made me more grateful as far as the things that I have, even like the basic of what I have, because I saw so many who didn't, who didn't have these things. It's not to say that having these things means that life is so much better, but you can see the benefit in the utility of having these things.

How there's so many people who strive just to have the basics of what we have. So if I was to use that as an example and talk about the political conversation, because there are a lot of Americans who don't leave this country and when they do, they basically go to American enclaves and resorts and stuff like that and sit by the beach because it's, you know, a carved out space for them to feel safe away from the locals and everybody else.

So because they don't actually see people being desperate people wanting and yearning things, I don't think they fully understand why so many people are trying to come to America. You know, why would someone travel through the desert, risk death, risk being trafficked into sex slavery, risk a mother having their children take away from them, never to see them again?

You know, I heard stories of just recently, some reporters were talking to independent reporters were talking to migrants who were in New York City. And they asked them all, what country are you from? How did you get here? And as they're describing all the different countries that they had to go through, from South America to throughout Central America to make it to Mexico and eventually into United States. They were pointing out, in certain areas it is known for people to be kidnapped.

In certain areas it's known for people to be, to be trafficked for kids to be taken, for you to be robbed and have your goods stolen. And they understand that it's still better for them to go through that so they can come here and be in America. And I should tell you something that, like, for me, when I hear these stories and I've talked to people who are legal migrants, you know, immigrants who from this country.

My father was an immigrant from Trinidad, although I didn't have relationship with him like that, so I never got to hear his immigrant story. But, you know, I talked to plenty of immigrants who came here legally who are in the United States. People from Iran who were escaping persecution and came to the United States with nothing and was able to build a sustainable life, who are so thankful for being here. Cuban Americans who came here from communist nation to find prosperity here.

And they're so thankful for being here and the safety that is being provided for them because of being here. You know, I look at all these people, I'm like, there's so many examples you don't even have. I don't. I don't ever have to touch down in Iran or Cuba or any of these places. I don't ever have to live there to understand because I've talked to so many different people, and they all have the same reasons why they risk so much just to come here.

Like, there's so many people who are afraid to move from one state to another state because they don't know anybody. You know, I don't know anybody there, and I don't know if I'll get a job. These are people who went to a completely different country with barely anything, who don't even speak the language and have to literally start their entire life over with little to no support like that.

To me, if someone's willing to go through all that, there must be a really damn good reason as to why they want to do that. And especially when you find out it's not just that one person, but there potentially millions of people who are in the very same predicament that, to me, that says there's something very special about the United States, because trust and believe, no one's trying to do that for the vast majority of other countries around the world.

Yes. And I think the tragedy of the situation is that so many of these people's hopes and dreams, they're used as political pawns as well. And that's. That's the real shame is there is, you know, traveling around the world. Just. If I could share a quick story. I think I was on a flight to Australia. And I was sitting next to a man, I was talking about my desire to. To travel around the South Pacific. And I had told him that I wanted to go to Papua New Guinea.

And he kind of stopped cold for a second. He's like, you probably don't want to do that. And I said, why? He's like, well, my wife is a nurse there. She flies in, and there's active human cannibalism going on right there. So probably. Probably don't fly to Papua New Guinea. As in, like, she gets off. Like, she's. She's a. Some sort of missionary, nurse helping. Helping a small village, something like that.

And he was describing to me, like, you know, she gets off the plane and she gets into, like, an armored SUV and is taken to the village. You know, she. And not just her, but the doctors and all that stuff. And. And that's the condition of much of the world that people are trying to escape from. Like, that's one of the. One of the worst stories that I heard, obviously. So people want to escape these conditions. And like, that genuine human desire for safety is.

Is exploited and weaponized people by people who want to use those individuals as political pawns within the United States. And it's like kind of getting screwed no matter. No matter where you are. And then, of course, along with, you know, these. These genuine good people trying to, I believe, have a better life. There are people that are actively, actively malicious, released from prison, et cetera, who see us as an opera, who see our country as an opportunity to exploit as well.

And it's such a. It's such a gigantic mess and certainly like to travel and to see the condition of much of the world. Like, we really do not understand how blessed we are to live in the United States. There's no country on earth that's like it. You know, there's no. There's no country as significant that's as peaceful, and there's no country that's as peaceful that's as significant. Right.

So you can go to, you know, you can go to China, you know, which is a pretty big country, and it's not as peaceful there as it is here. I mean, the heavy hand of communist oppression, you feel it when you get off the plane. When I left China, I flew from Shanghai to Taiwan. I exited the airport at Taiwan and instinctively went. Because I could. The weight of the. Of Communist China finally fell off. I didn't even notice. I was feeling it. And so. But we.

But because as you're, as you say so rightfully Americans don't travel. And so they don't have the ability to reflect on the blessings of this country. And they. And as a result, they don't know how to manage sharing it and not sharing it. So some are motivated to kind of like, hold, withhold it entirely, and some are motivated to just give it away freely. It's because neither really knows how to value what we have here because they've never seen it from the outside.

Yeah. You know, if I can slightly pivot because you made me think about something. Please. It reminds me of people who grew up always surrounded by Christianity, always going to church, and some of them not understanding the perspective of someone who's born again and understanding the daunting task of recognizing where you were wrong, were you sinned and you were in living right or whatever. Whatever your circumstance was, and to acknowledge that and repent for that.

So. And to do that in a deep way, to now come with Christ in humility. Like, I don't think a lot of people understand that. Who, Who've always. They've always been in Christ and, you know, it's culturally theirs and always gone. And they've always been theoretically in the street, narrow, never deviated. And I, you know, that's what it makes me think of. And I see people like Russell Br.

We'll just use him as an example, you know, we know his history of debauchery, of getting into all these different things, of being confused and drugs and all this. And for him to come to Christ. And then people will be like, well, you know, and try to downplay the significance of what he was able to accomplish. Skepticism, that every person who comes to Christ must be, you know, trying to do some sort of trickery. And, you know, it's just.

Or, oh, well, let's just wait and see if they really are. It's just, man, there's. There's such a daft of humility surrounding faith and genuine. Trying to have empathy and understanding for people. You know, if Russell Brand slips up and has a drug binge, well, you should understand, empathize with him and pray for him and hope that he comes back and he stops these. His ways. But, like, it doesn't mean that you're. You're automatically perfect.

And just because you want to pretend that you're perfect your entire life doesn't mean that that is actually true. It doesn't mean that someone else who, who has slipped and fallen and struggling is somehow worse than you. And I think that's. I think that's what really bothered me this idea that this person who has always been on the straight and narrow is somehow better than me because they've always been on straight and narrow. And it's like.

No, because from my perspective, I thought that was the whole point. The whole point is that you might think you're on straight and narrow, but you're a sinner. So am I. We're on the same plane. And we both have our struggles with something that is the whole point of all this.

And we should be empathetic rather than pretending that we don't sin, that we don't have lustful desires, that we don't have, you know, a bit of an ego that don't struggle with pride, that we don't struggle with these things. Yeah, we all got different things that are going on in our lives. So I started to kind of deviate. But when you said that. No, that's like the thing that really came to my mind. I think there's a really, really big lack of empathy that especially exists within.

In the conservative world, and especially, like conservative politics, which always tries to use Christianity as a measuring stick for policy, when the reality is, like, the Republican Party is a political party, it's not church. And when these same political figures. And by the way, it's a little bit of a rant. These same political figures who want to wag their finger up. No. And be outraged because they're a whole bunch of rappers who are at the Super Bowl. Oh, my God, it's degenerate music.

The same ones who are saying, I like Andrew Tate. Oh, you mean the pornographer. The guy who's being accused of trafficking. Oh, that guy. Oh, okay. All right, cool. You know, it's just. Thanks for the double standards. Right. It's just this. It's so blatantly obvious. It's not even an attempt to be consistent. And so that's where I'm like, I just. I can't stand. Obviously, we're all hyperts to some degree. And I just try not to be as much as possible, man.

There's some people who are just so overtly not even trying. It's just whatever is beneficial at the time. They just. They just say and do these things because, well, this person's different because they're on my team, or this person's different because the people I hate hate him. So they're now my friend, even though they're clearly an immoral individual. You know, so it's just. It's all that. So, yeah, no, I totally understand. Like, there, there's.

I Think the thing that I would say that I see similar between the conversation about, you know, coming to America and coming to Christ is people who have a good thing not knowing how to properly onboard people who want to be a part of it, right? Whether it be like, yeah, come in, I have plenty to go around, or that, no, you can't have any of this, right? Like hard walls versus like, you know, thrown open barn doors.

And I think part of that might have to do with like, well, we have this good thing. And maybe it has to do around with this 20th, 21st century conversation around the word privilege, right? Like we, like this privilege comes bundled with this notion of like guilt and shame. Like, okay, I have this thing and like, I should feel bad because I have it and they don't, right? Communist, Marxist.

And so if you're operating in that paradigm, it's like, oh, I have this unearned privilege, well then, well then the response could be like, I better give it away, right? And then some people are going to say that, like, no, stop giving that away. You have to make people earn it. Like, let's shut it down, right?

And so I think, I think we're so maybe infected by this Marxist thinking that we don't know how to say, like, okay, I have a good thing, but I want to make sure that before I share it with you that we have some understanding first, right? And I think churches, you know, the churches can have better or worse onboarding processes. Some churches have membership classes where they actually vet you and ask you questions because they want to protect a good thing that they have.

It's not that they say, no, you can't be a part of this, right? You actually go through a process. And I think we used to have that in America as well when we used to understand this is a good thing, we have to protect it. But in the past, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 years, it's just been, I feel like in Christianity also, the doors have been thrown open, like seeker sensitive, I think, is what they call that.

Like, yeah, just come in, hang out, you know, as if, as if, you know, there isn't requirements to get into heaven, you know, as if there aren't requirements in the Bible to take communion. And so I think what everyone's responding to and in some cases reacting to is this over generosity that has drained the reserves of both the United States and perhaps also Christendom. And so what do we do when we're inheriting this situation?

I don't actually, I don't actually know But I know what you mean about, like, facing skepticism, being Christian, or facing judgment. Like, you don't know what it's like out there. I'm just coming in the door looking for safety. I can. I can very much understand. Understand. And also taking for granted what they have. Like, you grew up, you know, in the. In the church, you know, and it's like. And here's this incredible blessing that was given to you from birth, and I believe you're faithful.

Like, but they don't have a way to devalue it because they weren't wandering around in the wilderness. Wilderness. Like some of us. Some of us were. So that's my rant in response. Like, I agree with everything you're saying. It's a. It's a strange thing to experience and to be able to talk with you about, because I've had similar experiences traveling America and Christianity as well. Yeah, I. This is. This is the area where I try not to complain. I don't like complaining in general.

Obviously, I complain. We all complain a little bit, but try not to be a complainer. So what I try my best to do is instead of pointing out what people aren't doing, I just try to do that very thing. And so we were talking about becoming a public figure. I. I never. I never anticipated any of this stuff happening. As I was saying before, and as it happened, I start to understand that this is much bigger than myself.

And even as I was coming closer to God, I understood that what I'm doing is much bigger than myself. And how I can. How it can impact people can. It can be both. It can be one or the other. It could positive or it could be negative. I can do a bunch of clickbaits off and make people upset, or I can give people to think about and be thankful and give them something generally positive after reading something that I write. So I chose. I chose to go the positive route because that's just.

That's my nature. Like, I want to help people. Excuse me. I should drink more water. Not allowed. No, I. In general, I want to help people and I want them to do better at their lives. And what I realized is my. My little bit of notoriety that I have has been an opportunity to touch people in a very particular light in a very particular way that maybe other people aren't attempting to. Excuse me. You know, if I. If I can give a quick story and please, I tell the story.

Obviously, when I tell these stories, it's not to brag, not to talk about. Look, I'm better than Anybody. Anybody else. I feel very fortunate to be in a position to help somebody like this. But I talked. I sent a tweet about being lonely. It was something of that nature. Being lonely or being. Maybe even being agoraphobic at that moment that I felt agoraphobia. I was just scared to leave my house for the first time.

And I talked about that, and someone sent a tweet that said, I'm going through that right now. And when I read that, I was like, that sounds like a call for help. And so we immediately went to private message, and I started talking to him, and I said, can you talk on the phone? He said, actually, I cut off my cell phone. Like, he. He hasn't been communicating with the outside world other than Twitter, and he had barely used that.

And. But I convinced him to bring up some sort of way that we can talk online. And I had to drive somewhere. So I talked to him for about 45 minutes. Using Canada not to get his. His entire story. I did write about this experience on my substack, but basically, he had a lot of purpose in his job. He worked in a hospital, and it was taken away from him, and he felt like they took his purpose like he had nothing else. And it was so detrimental to him that he was moments away from killing himself.

So his job status was held in limbo for quite some time, and he just became reclusive. And what was really unfortunate at times is that he had a wife and he had a kid. So he's not a single guy by himself. He has a family, and he's just. I know exactly how he feels because he's just going down this pit and he's by himself. And so what I told him was, I understand what you're going through. And I told him about my situation, what I went through. I said, here's my suggestion.

And I just asked him, like, let's just start with basics. Are you taking a shower every day? Do you. What? Do you brush your teeth? You know? And he just started telling me, yes, I do this. No, I don't do this. Okay, that thing that you don't do, do that. Just focus on that. Do that, and then move on to the next thing. And I was. I was. What I was essentially trying to tell him is that you have to build up these Ws.

Like, when you go that low, you think you're incapable of doing anything, but even the smallest task you accomplish, it feels like the biggest W. And for someone who's never been that low, like, if I told Them to make sure they take out the trash every day. You're like, what's the big deal? I do that all the time. Yeah, but this person does it. Barely cleans up after themselves, nevertheless, takes out the trash. Like, they're so low that they're. That they're not able to do anything.

They're unmotivated because they don't think that they can do anything, Even something as simple as take out the trash. And when you convince them to leave enough that they can do just that one task of taking out the trash, then that's a W for them, and then they'll move on to the next task and the next task. So we had that one conversation. I would check it, check on him, like, you know, every few months, you know, on Twitter, you can live. Leave a pinned, you know, DM spot. So I never forgot.

So he never got lost in my DMs. And I would occasionally reach out to Master. He's going. He would say he's doing better. About a year later, I think it was about a year later, he sent me a message. He said, hey, I just wanted to let you know I'm back at work. I'm in a different department. I really like what I'm doing now. I want to thank you because that conversation really helped me. And, you know, you were one of the few people who actually I even talked to. Like, he had cut off his family.

Like, he wasn't talking to anybody except for people that live with him, and he wanted to thank me for that. I didn't want anything from him. You know, I wasn't even going to talk about it, and I didn't talk about it until he sent me that message, because I. I wanted to use that as an example. Like, if you see someone struggling, like, don't leave them floundering. And I could have very easily just scrolled right past it, but I saw it, and I. And I feel like I was supposed to see that.

I'm sure he follows thousands of people, and he could have never seen a tweet, but he did see my tweet, and that prompted him to say something. Something told him to say something, and started that connection where I was able to help him. And me helping him, or not even just helping him, just talking to him. Like, when you're so low that someone talks to you and relates to you and understands where you're coming from is such a big deal, because when you're in that space, you feel so alone.

You feel like you're by yourself. And that's what sinks you even deeper. And so, you know, for me to be in a public figure, in that. This particular space where I can positively affect someone, you know, I feel so thankful that. That God gave me this privilege to be in. Yeah. It really is a blessing. Thank you for that, by the way.

It really is a blessing to be given, you know, by God, these platforms and to recognize, like, no, this is a gift to have been given this international microphone, the sort of thing that has never existed before in human history. Like, you know, and then the question becomes like, what are you going to do with it? You, me, anyone? Like, what are. What are we going to do with this? Right. Is it going to be an outlet for our fleshly desires, for, you know, for. To express our. We'll say passions.

I don't mean that in romantic sense. I mean it in the. Maybe the fleshly sense. Or is it going to be a tool for good? Is it going to be a tool for conflict? And it's a real test. And I think a lot of people aspire to having that level of influence. And it's like, I don't know whether we're aspiring to influence or something. Is. It is in itself a good thing.

I think these, these tools can only be wielded effectively by people who are like, you know, this is a gift, and I want to handle it respectfully, specifically, so that you can have the presence of mind to connect with a man who reaches out to you in that moment that you can have the presence to say something landed in you right with what they said. And then you took an extraordinary measure, which is to reach out to them personally and kind of get involved in their life to some degree.

Like, that's. That's the sort of thing that I think you can probably only do if you have a sensitivity to the. To the gift that's been given. Because if it's just all about you, then you're just going to steamroll over the thousands of people who are following you. But if it's about something bigger than yourself, bigger than ourselves, like, we can be sensitive to the people who are in front of us. What a blessing that you had to. That man's not only his.

Himself, but his family, his work, like, you'll never know the impact. You'll never have. Know the true extent of the impact you had in that man's life. Yeah, you know, even. Even with me talking about my journey in faith, someone had sent me a message privately. I think it's like the day after I posted my Baptism video. And they said, hey, you know, I've been struggling coming to where you're at. I want to, but I've been struggling coming to that point. And I said, can you talk on the phone?

So I gave them my numbers to call me. They called me and I talked to them for about an hour. And I just told them, like, here's, here's where I started. Here are the arguments that made sense to me. Here are the experiences that I had in my life. And, you know, check this video out. Like this, like, and understand this. And like, that's how I ended up coming to this point.

And I had him understand, like, I came from a point of being agnostic for about a decade to saying, I proclaim Jesus Christ as my savior, something I thought I would never do. So I had that conversation with him and what he funny enough and we could talk about this. I'm really big on near death experiences, the testimonies from people who, who went through that. So that was one of the things I told him.

I said, you know, near death experiences and listen to the testimonies, and listen to a whole bunch of them. Was really profound to hear their testimonies. Not just like, oh, I heard one person, but like a series of testimonies and seeing where the overlaps are, reading their mannerisms, are they exaggerating? You know, are they nervous? Like, just like reading the people, trying to see how authentic the stories appear to be based off of how they're telling it, amongst other things.

And, you know, I was telling him that. He was like, oh. And you know, I never looked into that. The very next day, he sends me a message and he's like, bro, why did I go on YouTube? And YouTube recommended near death experiences. I was like, they're always listening. Yeah, either the algorithm, guess you're talking to me. So I don't know, but I just thought that was funny. I don't know, it was divine intervention or whatever it was.

But just the fact that I was able to have that conversation because I was open enough to talk about what I was going through. You know, I haven't talked to him privately in a minute and in probably a couple months. But, you know, maybe that was a catalyst for him to come to Christ. And so I just try to think about that. And that's just one person who reached out to me who wasn't even sure if I would respond to him.

Who knows how many people have seen my videos, have read my story, has thought about what I said about coming to Christ, that Actually brings them closer to Christ. You know, who's seen my journey? Even someone like Russell Brand. How many people does Russell Brandt have connection to from a distance who listen to what he says and listens to his arguments and why he came to the conclusion that he able to help bring closer to Christ. So I mean, you know, anything can be corrupted.

You know, your, your public Persona can be corrupted, so you become self indulging and narcissistic or you can use that same public perception to help other people and sacrifice a little bit of your time to help someone that you don't even know. Amen. Amen. So when you were coming to faith, which I gather was happening 2020 around the George Floyd kind of things, what were some of the arguments that persuaded you out of agnosticism? So reading the book.

So for people who haven't read the book, there's a lot of storytelling, I know a lot of personal stories and lessons from stories. And when you do stuff like that, you come very retrospective. You start thinking about all these different things. And you know, I had a childhood trauma. I had unfortunate stuff that happened to me as an adult and what I started thinking about those moments where things weren't good but something happened to keep it from being worse.

So I think sometimes people think like, oh, well, things were going bad and then suddenly something rescued me. Everything was okay. But for me, the times that I think about, we're not necessarily like, I'll just give an example. Not getting into the whole backstory. This is a little bit long. I moved from New Jersey to Tennessee and I thought I had a place to stay. Come to find out the person had lied to me that I was supposed to stay with.

The good thing was I had a job that I already got hired for. I came there on a Friday and I was starting the job on a Monday and. But had no place to stay. There was a guy I happened to know in Alabama. He let me stay at his place for the weekend. But Monday came around and I know where to stay. I went to work and my new boss obviously knew that was coming from New Jersey. He's like, so how's everything going? And my instinct is always like, oh, it's fine because it's my problem.

I got to deal with it. But I told him the truth and I don't know why I told him the truth. Normally I would just lie and just kind of deal with it and just wallowing, whatever. But I told him the truth. And a couple hours later he pulled me to the side and he Said, hey, the supervisors and myself are pulling our money together to put you in a hotel room so you have enough money to buy to get your own place. Praise God. We don't want anything.

And let me tell you, you want to motivate someone to work really hard. I was like, man, yeah, I will. They're like, can you work overtime? I will do whatever overtime you want. I didn't care. That's right, I will do whatever. I was a model employee the entire time I was there because I was just so thankful that they did that. And they did that for, I want to say, almost a month and a half.

We have these weekly hotels that were relatively cheap in Nashville at the time, but they pulled their money together, put me in these hotels. I had gotten a few checks at that point and I got a one bedroom apartment for 500 bucks. It was really cheap at the time. It was 500 bucks a month. No deposit. So I was finally able to get in there. No furniture, but I was in shelter. Yeah, yeah. But I think about moments like that. They didn't give me money to get in an apartment. They gave me money.

So I just had enough shelter. Right. And I was able to earn money along the way so I can feed myself. And they helped me at the shelter. So they didn't completely rescue me, but they did something on the goodness of their heart. And they don't even know me. That's the other part. It's not like been there for years and like Adam's on hard times. They didn't know me. I was quite literally a stranger. It was the first day they even knew I existed in person.

And so, you know, I think about stuff like that. It would prompt these people to help me like that because they didn't have to. Especially be one thing if that manager on the side said, I'm going to help you. But they all pulled their money together and wanted to sacrifice to help me. And they didn't know me. And I. And I know some of them were Christians. And so I just, I just think about, I think about stuff like that.

What prompt people to go above and beyond for someone they don't even know, you know? So it's. It's moments like that when I was being retrospective of my life that I was like, something's there. I didn't experience with the Holy Ghost. I didn't know it was the Holy Ghost at the time. I just knew the feeling that I experienced about getting too long into it. My, My great. I'm sorry, my grand aunt, my My grandfather's sister. She was like my grandmother to me.

My actual grandmother had died when I was very young. She passed away. I saw her because she had left hospice and she was in terrible condition. And I saw her and she was in a lot of pain. I left that night. The next morning I got a call that she had passed away. And I was very distraught. It was probably the saddest I've been about someone, someone that I lost. And they were. I'm in New Jersey, they're in Massachusetts. The family asked me to be a pallbearer and I said yes.

So I went to the funeral. I'm trying to keep together because I don't like crying in front of people, but I'm trying to keep it together. And I'm kind of like, to the point where I'm like. I'm thinking myself, after this is over, I'm just. I'm just gonna go home, my place, because I don't. I don't want to be around anybody. And I make it to the grave site. I get out of the car and the. Actually my cousin's pastor. Pastor was read something and then got cued to come over to lift the casket.

And in my head I'm thinking, oh, man, this. It's going to be floodgates now, man. And I put my hand on the casket and I felt this overwhelming sense that she's okay. Like, it's just. And I said, what the f. Was that? From that moment, for the entire time I was there, I did not cry anymore. Like, I knew in my soul that she was fine. Now I'm crying, but yeah, I knew that. I knew that she was fine. And, ah, that's why I tell the story. It's okay. Take your time.

So when I go back in time and I think about that, I'm like, how do I explain that? You know, I just. I just set up as far as I'm distraught, I want to go home, be alone and just cry out and just deal with it and putting my hand or casket and just overwhelmingly, I didn't talk myself into that. I didn't. That wasn't me. That was something else. So, you know, that was. That was like, I tell that story in the book, so that's when people understand.

Like, I'm coming from a place where I'm not even sure if there's God. But in the book, I came to a point, as I'm being in perspective to saying that there is God and not fully understand even as I tell that story, that it's it's the, it's the Holy Ghost that touched me. But you know, just explaining as, like, I felt like there's a higher power that, that blessed me with getting rid of that, that grief because that was one of the best, because I have. Oh. It'S okay. I get it.

So that was, that was the weekend of the first Black Panther movie came out. And all this as a family, like it was just nothing but celebration. It was so nice. And you know, if I didn't have that happen, so, yeah, if I didn't have happen, I wouldn't miss out on all that. So, yeah, there's. There's so much more. There's so much more that I can get into. Well, thank you for letting all of us into that moment. I can feel the impact that it had on you.

And I can imagine coming from an agnostic framework, to put your hand on the casket and suddenly feel the sense of peace. And essentially what you're feeling is she's in a better place, she's okay. And you're being confronted in a very real, visceral, emotional, felt sense way about the reality of eternity in a way that you didn't expect. You expected to be grieving her loss, but instead it was almost maybe somewhere in there you felt a sense of celebration.

Like this wasn't something to be sad about, this was something to be happy about. And then you got to enjoy. Amazing. And that's where like the near death experience testimonies were like really profound that I started getting into the past. Was it six or so months? Six, eight months? Especially since the beginning of this year was the how people explained how Christ, how Christ walked away all of their grief, all their insecurities.

The afterlife removed all of the earthly pain, you know, the insecurities, the jealousy, all that stuff, the worry, all of that was gone. People who had stories of being healed, and these are people, so people understand, these are people who are clinically dead. So, you know, these aren't. I had a dream and I woke up. These are people who are clinically dead, sometimes for minutes, sometimes for hours, who come back and have such a profound experience.

But you know, a story that there's common stories that happen where Price, either Jesus himself or God wipes away their grief. You know, people who go into the afterlife who are grieving the loss of something, the loss of someone especially, and before they go back, he wipes away their grief. And like that, that type of stuff is like, man, that's. It's so profound. And the more I understand about Jesus Christ. That's really profound for me is he's the only God that has suffered in human form.

And so he's the most relatable and he understands, you know, and that's why it gets. I get frustrated with lack of understanding what people are going through, the lack of empathy. And it's like we were taught the born again situation. I said, man, there's so many people like former drug addicts, like Russell Ben, former drug addict. You know, just all these people who are just suffered. And you know, it reminds me of in the Bible, why they were questioning why Jesus Christ is around.

You know, the prostitutes, you know, tax collectors and all these people. He says they need me more. Right. He didn't remove himself from them. He came close to them. He understands. He understands how difficult this life is, which is why he says, you know, to. I'm probably going to butcher, but like to. To put on all your anxiety onto him, all your burdens on him, you know.

And so when I hear these stories of them having that experience of seeing Jesus Christ and he taking the burden off of them and onto himself so they can come back this earth and move forward with the rest of their purpose of being here. Listen, someone could be lying. Anybody can be lying. But I have a hard time believing that thousands upon thousands of people tell their testimonies who have nothing to gain from it. Most of these people.

Very rarely are any of these people writing books about their experience or anything like that. And even if they did, it doesn't mean they're lying. Most of them are hesitant to even talk about their stories. And not all of them are stories of going to heaven and seeing Christ. Many of them are experiencing what it's like going to hell and coming back.

Even those stories were profound because for many of them, as they're falling in this pit of darkness, it's the blackest black that they've ever seen where they can't see their hand in front of their face is so black and they are able to call out Jesus name and light opens and he pulls them out of the pit. You know, it's that kind of profound understanding. And so people hear these stories. These aren't dreams. These are nightmares.

These are circumstances of people who are actually dead where people can't explain how this person is still alive, where they come back and they're healed, you know, So I. I think there's just so much that is there. Have you seen one where there's possibly someone lying? Sure, you can account for that, but man, Not. Not thousands upon thousands of people who have nothing to gain from it. And when you look, when you watch people long enough, you can generally.

Generally tell someone who is lying, who's acting, who's embellishing. And the vast majority of these people, just like I was telling you my story with my. With my granddaughter, and I, you know, it's coming from hard, and I'm crying. I'm watching these people go through the same experience, you know, and doing this, and they're not public figures, you know, they have nothing to gain from this. They just want to share their story.

And hopefully people understand why they changed their entire life. They switched from being a Muslim to a Christian, right after this experience, they were confronted with so many different things, changed professions, changed everything, and came to Christ. Like, there's a reason why. So, yeah, I think these ND experiences are far, far more profound than people give them. Mm. Yeah. And that the. The total life change is the real. Is the real testimony, right?

That's the shift that, like, I had this experience, right. And it touched me in a deep, emotional way, and I realized I have to change my life. And then you change your life, right. That is the surest testimony of the gospel of Christ. To see sinners saved. Right. And to see that pattern happen over and over again, and also for it almost to be, in some sense, kind of effortless. Right?

So I spent a long time in the new age doing a lot of inner healing stuff, you know, not just therapy, but a bunch of other stuff, turning myself inside out to try and grieve and grow and know, spiritually evolve, et cetera. I mean, that was a big part of my life, a big part of why I traveled and since coming to Christ in the past four years, the growth in the same sense, I don't want to say it's been effortless, because that's not the right word, but the growth has come very naturally.

It's required letting a lot of things go, but just opening my hands and just feeling the growth happen. What I fought and, you know, and suffered for, a small little morsel of growth is given so freely by the Holy Spirit and in Christ that it's like, what was I ever doing messing around with all that stuff, except perhaps to show me, by contrast, you know, like, there's the hard way. Sure, do it the hard way. See if you get anywhere versus the easy way. And that's the thing.

Like, just last week I had someone asked me, he said, you know, you've been through so many different phases of different Religions, religions and spiritual traditions. Like, how do you know this isn't just another phase? And he was asking in good faith. Like, he was, he was essentially testing my profession of faith. And he had every right to in the situation. So I didn't, he didn't like, just walk up to me and say, hey bro, I have a question for you. I would have fielded that too.

But like, I understand why he was asking because it's like we have something precious here that we want to protect and we want to make sure that you're as sincere about it as we are. And so I appreciate that skepticism and like there, it needs to be suffused with grace. It needs to be like, no, I genuinely want to know you and hear who you are. I want to believe that what you have to say is true. But like, I want it to be true. Not for my sake. I want it to be true for your sake.

That's what he's saying to me. And so, and so I appreciate it. I have always appreciated that pushback on me. Like, please ask me questions, like, I will tell you about the guy that I was. I remember being dead. I can describe to you what it's like to be dead. And so it's, it's a, it's to hear the story of how it impacted you and how it impacted this person with the near death experience. It's like, yes, this is real.

And so to meet people inside the church who grew up in the church who don't have experience, like, look at what you have. Take it seriously. Yeah, that, that's, that's, that's so it. Just take it seriously and cherish it. You know, the. I cherish, I cherish where I'm at and I cherish our Savior, Jesus Christ. Even more so because, you know, I keep going back to struggle and suffering.

And for many years when I suffered, I didn't understand why I had to go through that, you know, because the way we talk about a culture is like, suffering is only bad, right? And then there are some cultures, you, suffering is a result of a previous life or something like that, but suffering is always bad. And so if you're right and if you're, if you're succeeding, what's always good, right? Success is always good. The scientists who said always having money is good.

Well, if that's the case, then how come there are millionaires who kill themselves? That's right. And how come there are people who don't have very much who are happy and joyful, right? But even more so to the struggle. Like, there's purpose in struggle. And like, obvious. The most obvious example of that is Jesus Christ literally suffering for our sins. There was purpose for him to do that. What he did was a sacrifice, and it was positive. There was a lesson to be learned from it.

And it was something that was necessary, and it was positive to do. And so his struggle, there was a point for it. And what I started realizing as well was that there's a point for my struggling. The reason I'm not very afraid of, you know, online haters or cancer mobs is because I suffered. It's because I went through all these different things, and I'm okay. I'm okay with that. And now I have an opportunity, because I've been very fortunate.

I have an opportunity to use my struggle as a lesson for other people to understand. I can use my struggle to relate to other people who are struggling, to help them pull themselves out, even if it's just one person. I can. I can use. I can use my story in a positive light, just in the same way we use other people's stories in a positive light. And so, you know, I don't. I don't regret anything that I went through. I don't regret being homeless. I don't regret my father not being in my life.

You know, I don't regret any of this stuff. I can't change any of it. I'm not resentful. I'm not angry. I'm not. None of these things. I am here. And the only thing I can do is use, excuse me, use the parts where I suffered and struggled to try to help somebody else and learn something from it and appreciate things. I've been homeless three times in my life. You know, I named one of the times, you know, where people had to pay for me to stay in a hotel. I was homeless twice as a kid.

Stayed in a homeless shelter once and, you know, stay with some strangers another time a stranger in a. And a trailer. And I know what it's like to feel insecure about where you live. I always like to have no job and struggling to find employment. Like, I know all that stuff.

And here I am sitting with you with thousands of dollars in computer and camera setup sitting in front of me, and I can pay my bills, and I drive a functioning vehicle, and I have a loving wife, you know, like, so I went through all those things to appreciate, to really appreciate. Obviously, I didn't have to go through all that to appreciate stuff, but it just adds to another level where I can't Take things for granted. I just can't.

You know, it's why I have a hard time setting high expectations for this and that. It's like, man the lows that I've come from. Like, I'm just so happy to be here. Right. I just. Doing the best that I can to go as far as I possibly can, but I know that there's going to be a cap and there's going to be a moment where I have to do something else. So I'm still thankful to be here. If tomorrow no one cares about what I have to say, then I'll deal with that and I'll move on and I'll figure it out.

And even more so, I have Christ by my side and I'll be okay. So, you know, I think, I think it's really important to be thankful. Obviously you don't have to lose everything to be thankful for what you have, but I just wish people were more introspective about the reality of their life. Yeah, there's in sort of secular culture, there's a big sort of gratitude, thankfulness kind of movement that's happening, but it's not Christ centric. So like, who are you, who are you giving?

Who are you thanking for all these things? I read, there's something that I read online couple, couple weeks ago. It's been kind of living rent free in my head, and it said, you know, if, if, if everything that you didn't say give thanks for this week were taken away tomorrow, right? Like, like think of, think of all the things in your most recent prayer that you didn't give thanks for. Imagine that they'll be taken away tomorrow.

And I was like, oh my gosh, how many things am I not giving thankful thanks for? You know, sitting down, making myself breakfast, like, you know, the, the blood in my veins, the air in my lungs, the food on my plate, the, the power, you know, the safety, the health, all of these different things. Recognizing the overwhelming bounty of life that, that I, that I've been given in that moment that we've been given. Right. Of course. And there are other people that don't have those things right.

For, for various, for various reasons. And so to recognize. And this ties into the, the conversation about travel in America. And this ties into the conversation about, about, you know, recognizing the good of growing up inside the church on like, being told what the faith and the straight and narrow is as opposed to having to find it later in life. Like these overwhelming bounties that so many of us have and yet we have A culture that catechizes us in want and need and desire.

And so it seems like no matter, no matter how many blessings we have showering around us inside America right now, almost no matter where we are, that there's always this, but I gotta have more. It's like, well, are you properly giving thanks for what you have now? That's good and also what's bad? And that's the part that I love about what you said. And I want to read, of course, the famous passage, if I May, just Romans 8, 28, 29.

And we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good. For those who are called according to his purpose, for those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. So the suffering that we experience, the hard things that we go through conform us to the image of Christ. It's not meaningless suffering, right? It's all turned to this ultimate highest good and like, hallelujah. Right?

And so that's, that's, that's. That's the gift of being able to look at the long roads that any of us, you and I in this case, have walked to come to Christ and to recognize, like, I have this. I'm good. Serving in this way against the online haters, against the difficulties that come with being a public person, the difficulties of being questioned and challenged.

Like, yes, I know what it took to get here, so I'm okay being asked these questions and being subjected to scrutiny if it's done with grace, but sometimes it isn't. So you don't have control over that anyway. Yeah, I don't most of the time. It's not dumb and Greece, if I'm honest with you. That's right. That's very. Everything these days is very deaf of grace, so. But it's okay. It's okay. Like, I just wish there was more grace for other people, not necessarily for myself.

I wish there was more understanding of what other people are going through. No, I think sometimes. I think sometimes people carve out. Part. Of what it means to be a Christian and ignore the other parts. Some people want to be, you know, Jesus Christ turned over tables. They want to be that Christian. Right? Ah, you know, tell how it is. And then there are other people who just paint Jesus Christ as this hippie dippy guy who just accepted everyone, and you're all wonderful.

And it's like, well, no, it's. It's both in more Right. There's an understanding that he is just, he's also gracious, he's understanding, but he still has rules. Right. Like there's a balance. And actually if I can go back a little bit, you made me think about something. You're talking about how it feels effortless and. But I know what you mean comparatively. Right, okay, but I know what you mean. I think the word I would use is that it feels natural. Yeah. And that's.

I had somebody tell me like I was already, I was already acting Christ like without realizing I was acting Christ like because I started doing things that felt natural. Like I started listening to myself like when I started traveling and I got rid of that social anxiety which is, it's like a wall that prevents you from trusting yourself and listening to yourself.

When you stick your yourself somewhere that you have no, know nothing about, you have no choice but to listen to yourself and to talk to yourself and to trust yourself. And that inner voice is not just my voice. Yeah, it, it's God has also helped to, to guide me and that's that, that like a God given instinct, you know. And so when I'm meeting someone and I'm like, something's not right about this person. I have no information other than my instinct.

I need to stay away from this person or I need to go towards this person. There's something about this person I need to go towards. And I started listening to that not just occasionally, but all the time. And every time since I tried to stretch like, well, you know, I tried to make excuses for someone or something, it always bit in the ass every single time. And it's like, lesson learned once again. My instincts are 100 correct.

And so, you know, coming to that and listening to my instincts and, and once you start doing that, your instincts are natural, Everything just feels natural. Like I have a friend who's a theologian, she's a theologian and a journalist. And our first conversation, she was, she was interviewing me for a Dutch newspaper that she was working for. She's. She read something that I wrote. She's based in Netherlands and she wanted to interview me for the. Their paper. Excuse me.

And we had this like this first time ever talking. We just had this really comfortable understanding conversation. And she told me after that, towards the end of that conversation, she said, you know, you're the most Christ like person I've talked to in a long time. Now this is before I like completely, you know, proclaimed my love to Christ. But I was being slowly like introduced to different Christians and I was becoming more and more open to it. And, you know, she. We're still friends.

And she told me. What I mean by that is it's coming natural to you because you're listening to yourself. You know, it's just very natural. So when I go to her and I say, biblically, what is this? And she tells me, I said, that's what I thought. And it's because, yeah, my instincts are telling me, like, this is right or this is wrong. Like, obviously there's a. There's a biblical text that. That explains in detail and we should understand these things.

But every time I read a piece of text, I'm like, well, yeah, that makes sense. Like, to me, it just. It just seems natural. It makes sense. And then when I hear texts from other face about very specific things, it seems like they're trying to convince you to do something that is not natural. Well, in this circumstance, it is. I was like, wait, whenever I read the Christian faith, it is never circumstantial. It is never thou shall not kill. Unless it's like, well, it's just. That's.

That's what they. Yeah, there's an asterisk next to it. You know, it's. It's like, that's. That's the part where I'm like, well, yeah, like, this is. This is. Everything about this is very much so natural. And if something is natural, it feels effortless. Like, I don't have to try very hard. And I've always. I've always had a strong sense of guilt. Like, I know that I can't. I can't do certain things because I feel so guilty. And I've always been like that.

I used to call it a curse because, you know, you see your friends doing certain things, you're like, oh, I wish I could do that. I wish I could go here, do that, and not feel bad about it. But now I'm like, man, it's a real blessing because it's like, it steers me in the right direction. And now that I have my. My sense of. Strong sense of what's moral and border, like, what's.

What's guarding, that is knowing that I will feel such a strong sense of guilt that I have no choice but to rectify what I just did. Like, and that helps to keep me in line understanding that if I listen to my instincts, my moral compass is on point 100 of the time. That's God given. So every.

Everything about this, it feels so natural and normal that for, like, the first time in my life, I don't have to, I don't have to think very hard about what I'm doing, am doing this right, or anything like that. It's just, it's just there. Some people would regard the. A living conscience as a curse, right? And I heard you say that earlier. Like the pain of a conscience that's saying, don't do that, don't do that, right? Or even though everyone else is doing that, don't do that.

Like, a living conscience in, especially in culture today can feel like a curse because all the popular kids are doing this or all of, all of society is telling you to do this or trying to get you to buy this or engage in this. And it's like something inside me is very inconveniently telling me not to do it. And I get into arguments like this on Twitter with atheists. I say like, well, do you have a conscience? Do you know right from wrong?

And they'll say something like, yeah, but that's just socially conditioned, right? And then I'll show them a picture of like tank man from Tiananmen Square, the guy who stood in front of the, in front of the tanks, you know, like that is that kind of behavior which is exemplary of so many other kinds of behavior that are just like it. That's not socially conditioned. That's the behavior. There's, there's no one who says stand in front of a line of tanks.

And that guy, by the way, he didn't know he was being photographed. Like, he didn't know, like, oh, there's cameras up there, so I'm going to go do this. No, he did that exclusively because it was right to him in that moment, the most inconvenient thing. And that's the conscience, right? And so the conscience can't be socially conditioned because the conscience tells us to do things that are often, quote, unquote, antisocial.

But to live in alignment with our conscience is the best blessing because it means we can sleep at night. We don't have to worry about that thing that I said that one time or that thing that, you know, no one saw me do, but, you know, I know that I did it. It's like, it's a, it's a gift if we have the self discipline to act in accordance with it. And that, I think, is the hardest thing for so many men and women too.

Like just part of the human condition to have the self discipline to act in alignment with our conscience when it's antisocial, when it's sort of counterproductive to the group and I think that's being weaponized by a lot of. Against a lot of people today. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I was just thinking about the last time my conscience beat me the hell up. Was. So when I. When I. When I write, and it's not often like, sure, that's what I'm saying.

Like, it's very rare when I wrote something. Actually. No, I think it's better if I tell you this. You know, Twitter is a. Interesting place. You get caught up in stuff, and. And. And that's why I. I actually call. I call Twitter demonic in nature. It doesn't have to be. But anything that separates people in its natural state is to separate people is something that is demonic. And obviously, you can.

You could take anything and make something positive out of it, but I. I see it as an avenue that steers towards separation, whether it's mocking people, ridiculing people, blocking people, you know, yelling at people, defaming, canceling. Like, all that stuff you get rewarded to do on that platform. And because it. In my opinion, that is demonic in nature, it's very easy if you're not. If you're not conscious of it, to fall on that path, even just slightly. And I had accidentally.

I had accidentally mocked someone who was suffering, and I. When I realized that, and then their followers were coming after me, and I. And I was like, I didn't know that. Like, I was trying to. Like, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. And then I deleted what I tweeted, and I felt such guilt for, like, an entire day. And I posted, I'm taking a break. Like, I need to get off of here. I'm taking a break.

And then I think a day or two later, I sent out that woman a private message apologizing to her. And I said, I don't expect you to respond. I just want to tell you that I'm really sorry. I didn't know that you were suffering. If I did, I would have never said that. It's not my intention to hurt people on here. You know, I got caught up with all the other stuff, and I thought you were this. And I do know, and I'm really sorry.

You know, if you want to tell your story on my platform, I would welcome you to do that, but I just wanted to let you know that I'm really sorry for hurting you. And she responded and said, wow, this never happens on her, and it never happens. You know, just someone saying, I was wrong, and I am so sorry, and I did not mean to hurt you and really meant a lot because, you know, people hurt someone and they just move on and pretend that happened.

My conscience did not stop bothering me until I did that, until I acknowledged that I messed up. So, like, I'm so glad to have a conscience like that, because I don't know how. How badly I hurt that lady. Right. And maybe me apologizing was a way for her to alleviate that hurt and understand where I'm coming from. And we're were both alleviating that pain because I was humble enough to say I was wrong. I'm in the wrong here. I'm so sorry.

And to understand where she's coming from because, you know, I get it. I get why she said what she said, what, you know, and what she's going through. So. And just so people kind of understand, she was. She was affected by Covid, I believe, a COVID vaccine. And I didn't know that. I saw her as somebody who was like, you see all these people who are. Seem kind of crazy, just wearing masks and stuff like that and kind of freak out over. Over these very things.

But she was someone who was sick because of the COVID vaccine. Well, vaccine injury. Yeah. So. So she was like, hyper. Hyper vigilant about everything, because I can't remember. It was just her. I think it might have been her kids as well or something like that. I can't remember in great detail, but that's kind of the basis of the mockery that I engaged in. And I didn't realize I was mocking someone who was actually hurting.

Have you talked about this on your Twitter since then, or is this the first time you've spoken about it? I. I wrote. I wrote a substack piece about it. As I was saying, I'm taking a break because I realized I got caught up there. You know, there were a whole bunch of things. Elon had retweeted me. I got. I got attacked by white supremacists who call me the N word. I was getting attacked by black leftists who were calling me coons. Like, it was just at first. I can't make anyone happy.

You can't make anyone happy. I'm just. I'm all the above. I like you. I like you as well. Thank you so much. But, yeah, it was just. It was like every hour I was getting a new hate message. I got leftists. Leftists and communists in New York City tagged me on Twitter on. On Instagram, and I had to block my mentions. And it's like. So then that happened like a two Days later, I was just like, I need to get off this platform. Like, because I'm. Oh, yeah, it was just. It was too much.

It was too much. And I was starting. I. I didn't act like myself by hurting somebody. So, yeah. I see what you mean about feeling that it's demonic, and I agree. You know, I've said to a bunch of people that pre. Elon, I think, you know, Twitter was a. It was all about censorship, right? They constrained the level of dialogue. And now post Elon, it's like the narrative is being driven. It's like it's being supercharged, and everyone's getting all frothy much faster in some very destructive ways.

And I can't say whether one's better than the other in some ways, but certainly there are. There are benefits to free speech. I mean, I think around the Trump assassination attempt, right? That day, Twitter was so far out ahead of the media, in for 48 hours, at least. And so that freedom of information, to let information flow was very, very powerful. And that comes with the costs of people being able to say things that they couldn't say a few years ago that we then get caught up.

And it's like, whoa, I need to turn this off. Especially when you have influence, like, you have. I think you. I think I saw 130,000 Twitter followers. Like, that's a. That's a big deal, right? And it can. It can be very easy to fall into that and be like, whoa, okay, whoa. There's more. As we said earlier, it's not just about me. Right? And that's. And. And you felt it becoming about something more than you and I guess in a different way. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like I wasn't. I wasn't myself.

Like, how. And people who talk to me on the phone, there have been Twitter friends that I've made. We talk on the phone and stuff like that and talk frequently. They'll. They'll go online, like, whatever. You see Adam on. Adam online, that's how he is in real life. And then people meet me. It's like I'm. I'm so even inconsistent. Like, it probably drives my wife crazy because it seems like I'm. I'm Even temperament. I'm consistent.

It's very, very rare that I'm emotionally off for an extended period of time. So when I am, it really bothers me, you know? And so when I. When I do something like what I did there, it bothers me. It bothers me a lot, you know, not necessarily because I'm trying To be an influencer and tell people to do this and do that. But just on a personal level, I just, I didn't have to apologize to her and I didn't have to tell anybody. I have to tell you. Right.

I could have just moved on with my life, but I felt the need to, you know, and that's, that's, that's the soul aspect, the guilt. That's these, these are God given traits that we have that you can't measure. You know, it's just, it's there. You know, it's there just, you know, you have a soul. Like, it's there. You can't put under a magnifying glass. You know, it's. But, you know, it's there. And so we know what's right and wrong.

And I knew what I did was wrong, and I knew that the only way that I could alleviate that was acknowledging that I was wrong and apologizing to this person. So, you know, and I didn't talk about it publicly. Twitter, not because I, I didn't, you know, I was shame, shameful of it and I didn't want to show my shame to the public. But sometimes when you do stuff like that publicly, it can come off as you appearing to be the good guy in front of everybody.

It's kind of like when someone films himself giving a homeless person money. Like, it's that kind of thing. It's like, well, why are you doing it? Are you, are you genuine or are you just doing it to show people, look, I'm, I'm big and I apologize if. You know. Right. You know, so that's why. Yeah, for, in a situation like that, there's really no need to run that up the flagpole and make a big thing about apologizing to a specific woman.

Unless it's something that everyone saw and everyone reacted to and then it's appropriate. But the reason why I asked if you talked about it is because the. One of the thoughts that came to my mind is not just the impact that you may have had on that woman that you responded to, but the number of people who are watching you, who saw that in you for a moment. Like, oh, I feel bad. You know, I feel bad for Adam that he did that or I didn't know that about him.

Like, the, you know, because we, like the notion of having fans is quite strange, but it's a thing. And it's like people are, people are watching. And it's like they have high expectations for us and we have high expectations for ourselves. And so it's great to hear about this because I imagine there may be one other person who is watching that, a third party watching that whole, you know, thought something or felt some kind of way about it.

And they'll probably be grateful to hear, like, the resolution that happened on the back end, that you actually reached out to the woman and that you spoke to her. It's like, oh, that's really cool that he had the courage to sort of step. To take a step back and reach out and treat her like a person rather than just a name with an avatar on Twitter. Like, hey, we're. We're through this mediated, pseudo anonymous kind of platform. We can't see each other face to face like this.

So, like, hey, there's a human on this side, and I recognize there's a human on that side, and I didn't treat you like that for a moment, and I'm sorry. Like, that's huge. Like, oh, my gosh. Praise God. Hallelujah. Yeah, I just. I never. Also from the fact that one. I deleted it, and it wasn't. It wasn't up terribly long, and I deleted it. And I know. Part of me knows that, like, by that point, it was like, four days later. No one remembers any of this stuff, even if everyone's memory is short.

So what did you say? I forgot. Exactly. You know, for me, it's like, I already hurt this lady, and she's not a public figure. So that's the other part. She's just some lady. And so I don't. I don't want to make this a public thing and potentially hurt her again. Even I might apologize. And then someone who follows me is like, yeah, but she's still an idiot, blah, blah, blah. And then I'm just, you know, I just opened the pathway for her to get hurt again.

So I, you know, kind of had, like, those things in mind. I didn't. I wanted to make it as personal as possible. And honestly, I didn't expect her to even respond. You know, I just wanted to. I just wanted to apologize. If she read it and she had nothing to say to me, and she's like, well, you're still an asshole, then so be it. But I wanted to get that off my chest. My conscience. And I just wanted to put it out there. I think that's being very responsible.

I mean, you didn't have to say anything. But again, this gets back to the point about the conscience. Your conscience convicted you. Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference to anyone else in the world or even her, but it made a difference to you. And that's not to make it sound selfish. It's like, look, regardless of whatever anyone else thinks, my conscience is telling me I did something wrong here, if only by God's standards, not even by her.

Maybe she didn't even feel all that wronged, or maybe no one else saw and thought it was wrong. You thought it was wrong, God thought it was wrong. And so you act. And that's a gift. Some people don't. Some people don't have that. A lot of people don't have that. And I think more than anything that we should pray for those people that they have that. But I think it's all.

People fear it because they know that not only will they then be accountable for their behavior going forward, they'll be accountable for the backlog of stuff, which is its own thing. Yeah, I think it's. I think it's really important to apologize. Not under duress, not because some said you should, but because you, you want to. Like, if someone told me you need to apologize to her now, I'd be like, go yourself. Don't, don't leverage an apology because an apology is supposed to mean something.

Thing that's right. And if you genuinely mean it, then you apologize. But don't, don't. Like, that's like a huge pet peeve of mine when someone tries to force me to do something, you know, even if they're right, even if that person's right and I should apologize. But don't, don't try to force me to do something. I will do it because it's coming from heart and I want to do it. But I, I do think that there's a need to, there's a need to be humble about your experience.

And, you know, I, and that's why I think it's important for us to talk about where we mess up. Because I think there's so many people who, you know, the influences online who pretend that they've never messed up, never did anything wrong. They're always right, you know, and even just the nature of being a born again Christian is saying I was wrong before. Like, I'm being humble enough to say I was wrong. And I'm doing the thing that I think is a long time, right, for quite some time.

And so, like, for me, it's not, it's not embarrassing to acknowledge I messed up, because if I can talk about these things and maybe encourages somebody else to talk about it or to acknowledge where they're messing up, or maybe they're currently messing up. And they're just so fearful of acknowledging that messing up, that just keep repeating it. And, you know, I've had. I've had people. That's the other crazy part.

It's like people like you in this space, they offer advice that you didn't necessarily need at that moment, but you're glad that they gave you that advice. You know, there was a guy who. It was kind of like a cautionary tale. He could see me ascending, and he said, hey, just so you know, he's an older guy. He said, listen, I used to be on TV decades ago. I was in la. I was doing this, that. And I was really feeling myself.

And I cheated on my wife, and she found out, and I loved my wife and it ruined my life. And I realized, what did I do this for? Like, I just got caught up. And I did this because I had ego and it was all pride and I just thought I could do stuff with no repercussions. And I hurt the person that I loved. And I messed up my life at that. At that moment, because I was. I was chasing something that wasn't even important. And so he was like, make sure you don't follow into the mistakes that I did.

No, I didn't do anything. There wasn't anything. Anything implied or anything like that. But he felt the need to give me that reminder kind of early on. Give me the reminder. Like, I see what you're doing. I like it, and I see which way you're going. And I'm just giving you my cautionary tale in case you ever come across a situation. And. And so you don't make that mistake. Because I. I love my wife a lot. I love her dearly and would never want to put myself in any sort of situation like that.

And, you know, whenever I travel somewhere, I try to make sure my wife comes with me because, one, I want her there, but two, to show, like, I have no interest in any of this other stuff. I don't want to. I want to be tacitly involved in stuff. I want my wife. I want my wife only. I want her with me to see if I go and speak, if I go and sell books, stuff. Like, I want her with me because. Reunion. And I think that's ultimately what he was trying to.

Trying to explain to me is like, cherish your union. You know, don't. Don't take it for granted like I did. And so that's. That's a. That's a lesson from just a random guy on Twitter who's been a follower of mine for quite some time who opened up and told me his story of his pain and his regret to make sure that I don't repeat his mistake. Yeah. And he showed you a potential pitfall along the way that you weren't even thinking of. And maybe it wouldn't have been on your radar anyway.

But he's saying, like, hey, further down this road, you may encounter X. In case you do, don't do it. Because here's what happens. I mean, the Bible is full of warnings against adulteresses. Like, the mouth of an adulteress is a deep pit, I believe is one of them. And you know, like, that's a thing, you know, like that think about that. Men. But it was kind of him to reach out to you and in a way almost share his story with you. I mean, in a very real way. Share his story.

Yeah, because it's like, hey, you know, don't do this, and here's me. And so it seems to me that you create this space around you that people feel. You intentionally create the space around you that people feel comfortable in, whether it be people you're apologizing in dms, you have people reaching out to share personal parts of your story, whether it's someone that you're reaching out to personally to check on them. Like, hey, are you. You okay?

Like, I felt something funny about what you wrote. Like, what a rare, what a rare gift in the realm of social media to have a real, dare I say, a real person. Right, Right. So what a gift that you offer to the people around you. Because whether. Whether the, Whether the guidance from the man had anything to do with where you would ever be or not, it was something that he still. Something that he still felt called to share. Like, hey, this is something that I learned in a really hard way.

It's important to me to know this now, and I'd like to share that with you. That's a, That's a piece of him that he felt comfortable enough to share with you, because he probably wouldn't share that with a lot of people. Yeah, and I'm. I'm always thankful. Like, I get DMs from people. I get emails from people in response to things that I write. I get people who say, thank you so much because this is my story. I really appreciate you.

You know, so I get, as much as we talk, it's very easy to notice the negative that exists out there. But, like, the positive that I get disclutely dwarfs. That's. So when I, When I show off, like, the. The hate DMs and the hate emails, stuff like that. Like, those things are rare. Very much so. Often I get. I get positive things. I get people who share their stories, very intimate stories. I've. I've had people.

My. My first viral tweet was talking about my sadness of growing up without my father, how it impacted me. I can't even remember the exact tweet, but I remember Christopher Rufo retweeted it and it just took off from there. And I was a small account at the time, so. But that. That prompted so many DMs from people who were like, that's my story. Or they were the fathers who were trying to fight for custody with their kids. You know, it's just.

It was just DM after dm, after DM from people who were telling me in. In some detail their stories and what they were going through. And I remember that night, like, going to bed and I was, like, crying because it was. It was so. It was. It was very much so emotional. And I was on top of that. I was still sort of new to Twitter, but it was very much so emotional for me to have so many people feel what I put out there enough to tell me their story. And so I don't.

I always think whenever they tell me their story, I always read it and I thank them for sharing their story because they don't have to do that. And a lot of people feel very comfortable telling me, and I don't break the trust or anything like that and, you know, reveal anything, but, like, the fact that they feel open enough, tell me. Because as much as they're strangers, me, I'm also a stranger to them. Like, they don't know me either.

So for them to feel comfortable enough to take a chance and reach out to me, I've had people who are like, I don't think you're going to read this, but I just wanted to say. And then, like, two seconds later, I'm like, thanks so much. You're like, oh, my God. They're always shocked. Yeah, I'm just a regular guy. I use Twitter. I see a message, and thank you so much. I do appreciate it. So I. Yeah, like I said before, I take any of this stuff for granted.

It's hard for people to reveal themselves in general, nevertheless reveal themselves to complete strangers. Yes. Oh, my gosh, very much so. I had a successful female content creator influencer reach out to me and just privately tell me about how she met her husband. I had replied to something that she had said, you know, and I had replied at length, or maybe I had retweeted it and replied at length. I said, like, giving her the benefit of the doubt of a bunch of stuff.

And then she reached out to kind of explain her story and I was like, well, first of all, thank you for sharing that with me. And she said something really nice. She said, well, I trust you. Like, thank you for saying that. Like, we've never met, you know, but, but the, the idea that to be a kind of person where your personality, where yourself shines through the words, shines through the interactions, like, I think that's one of the beautiful things about, about social media.

There's a lot that isn't good, but the idea that through reading words or watching someone or some, over some period of time, being like, you know what? I'm just going to reach out to this guy. In fact, that's why you and I are talking is that I'd watched you for a while and, you know, I just like, well, I'm just going to shoot this guy a message. And I know he's got a lot of things going on. Let's just see if we can have a conversation. And I was like, oh, my gosh. He replied.

So I can relate very much to all these people that send you. That send you messages. I mean, and I think it's a blessing to be able to have the. I guess I might say the inner resources to be available in that way. And I don't mean like available in terms of, like, you know, I'm. I'm here to pick up the phone. It's like when someone messages, the ability to meet them with where.

Meet them where they're at, because that takes, that takes effort because you're wherever you're at during the day and this person's way over here and they send you a message saying, I'm struggling with something or whatever, and then you come over there to meet them where they're at. Like, that's not easy to do in our, in our hectic lives. And that requires a certain amount of inner resources to be able to do and I guess a generosity of spirit.

Yeah, I. I'm sort of glued to my phone because working at it, you, you know, you always have to have your phone on you. But as far as being, like, emotionally available, I don't know where it comes from, but I'm okay with it. I'm okay with being emotionally available myself and talking about very intimate things or hearing people's stories. Also, I know what it's like to send someone a thankful message and not get a reply. So I'm just like, I respond to everybody.

I check my emails, I check my DMs. As long as you're not crazy, I'll send you at least like a thank you, you know, something like that. Because, Because I'm thankful. Like, you don't have to tell me how, how much I impact your life. You don't have to tell me thank you so much for what you did. You don't have to tell me any of that stuff. But you took the time out of your day to say something nice to me, a complete stranger. Yeah, I'm going to thank you for that.

Now. If you send me something crazy and call me a coon, I'm gonna mock you and I'm gonna ask you with. The energy you bring to me. Right? And I won't let that hurt me. I will actually call you. You're. You're my biggest fan. That's my, my thing. These are my biggest fans. The ones who, like, I just know I can't imagine hating someone so much that I send them an angry message. And I was like, oh, you're just, you're a confused fan, but you're just like a really big fan.

That's why you send me that message. Like you'll know what to do with that energy. I love what I do. Yeah, exactly. You just don't know how to express all the affection. That's exactly what it is. It's like there's a thin line between love and hate and they're just like toeing that line. They don't know exactly how, how to deal with that pent up emotion. So I always give them my well played, my biggest grace. Thank you so much to my kids fans who send me these messages.

It's funny, I was thinking about that today as I was driving. Just the number of hate tweets, angry stuff that just comes across every day. And I was just looking around the car and I was like, it could be any of these people. I mean, it probably isn't. I'm trying to imagine that the spirit of the person who's just like, you know, they see something on Twitter and they're like, kill yourself. It's like what people walking around, walking around during the day, you know, like what?

Like they just get on their phone and it's like they call you a coon and then they put it down and they go like, order a latte or something. Like, I just don't understand how that fits together into a real person. I hope your family dies. Hey, so we'll go play ball. Exactly. Exactly. Sorry. As I was saying. Yeah. The world is weird in that. Yeah. I think the Internet and anonymity forces people to, like, they're so separate. That's what I'm saying.

It's the separation of people, and it's so easy to kind of see as things. And it's just a screen. A screen name and an avatar and stuff like that. And it's why I try my best to criticize ideas rather than criticize person, because obviously we've changed our minds and stuff. And so I think it's good to have grace because I've met, like, for example, I talk about leftists, but I talk about leftists as far as, like, the ideology of leftists, not the individual. Right.

And I've met former leftists who are people, and. And they're like, I'm glad that there are people who gave me grace to fit this ideology and move elsewhere to think for myself on these particular things. So, you know, I think that's. That's also important. So I try not to. I try not to go after the individual. I try to go after either the behavior or the ideology of a particular person. Thank you for saying that. I've been saying that a lot lately.

Like, go after their ideas or the behavior or the words, not the individual. Right? Like, you know, don't. Don't use personal pejoratives, you know, because if an idea is bad, it's a lie. You can just punch through it the right way. But I think the challenge is people get their ideas wrapped around the axle of their identity, and when you start poking at the idea, they can't distinguish the idea from themselves. Like, I get that. You know, I poke at feminism a lot.

I enjoy doing it, but so many people have it wrapped around their identity. Like, they. And they don't. Maybe they know, maybe they don't, but it can be. It can be very. It can be very sensitive. But, like, again, it's kind of the arena, right? It's the. It's the public marketplace, the marketplace of ideas. And so we should feel free to let ideas bash into each other and see which one wins. And I think there's a strange phenomenon where, When.

When people build their platforms based on bad ideas, right? And there's only one good idea in history, and that's Christ, you know, so you have that as a solid foundation. There might be a few other. I don't mean to be so Hyperbolic about it, but, you know, we're talking about solid foundations to stand on. And so people build their platforms based on ideas. A great example, Richard Dawkins. Richard Dawkins is a great example that's been up lately. You know, he built his whole.

His whole career essentially, on evolutionary science, materialism, denying God, like, that was his whole deal through the 90s and early 2000s. Right? Blind. The universe is blind. Pitiless indifference with no justice anywhere. That's like one of his famous quotes. And then a couple of weeks ago, he posts like, I lost my entire Facebook account for questioning. Something about the riots going on in the UK that seems really unfair. And, like, I hit him with that quote. Like, is this you? Right?

And so, like, when you build your platform based on this idea, and then you're held accountable for the idea. Well, what did he do? He deleted the whole. He deleted the whole tweet. He ran from the accountability of his own. Of his own idea. And, like. And so to. So to prevent that, it's like, no, defend your ideas in the marketplace if you can. And that, I think, is one of the great blessings with Twitter that we haven't had before.

But like you said, it can get demonic, and we can easily just slide off and lose ourselves in the combat, you know, and become very fleshly about it and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I need to punch out of this for a second and go touch grass. And remember that, yes, it's righteous combat against ideas. And I'm a person, and they're a person as well. It can be quite demanding, actually, now that I describe it that way. Yeah. But I also.

I do think that I have many, many of strategies that I implement. I think sometimes people don't think. They just do when it comes to Twitter. They just use it like a diary. But everything that I put out, it's kind of like a lawyer, the lawyer, a good lawyer is supposed to know the answer to a question that they ask. Right. You know, you don't ask that question if you don't know the answer. So I. I know the response that I'll get based on the tweet that I'm about to craft. I already know.

It's very, very easy for me. And so every word that I use I know will elicit a particular response. I know if I use a qualifier that alleviates the people who say, well, you're being general. Actually, no, as a qualifier, I'm being very specific. Right. So you can't fight that. So there. There's very particular Strategies that I implement to avoid most of what become when it comes to stuff like that. But as far as you're talking about identity, I am.

If anybody follows me, like yourself, I am very much so. Identity less. Obviously, people know about my faith and I talk about them, but outside of that, people don't really know my philosophy. You know, there's a lot of people who presume my philosophy. Right. You can see, like, you know, Tom Soul on the wall. Oh, he must be black conservative. And I ask people, am I. Have you heard me say, you know, as a black conservative? Right. Am I holding me being black as, like, this deity?

No, I don't do that either. So when someone calls me a coon, it doesn't bother me because being black is, like, very, very far down on the list. You can't really hurt me on that. And that's an identity that I was born with. I had no choice but to be black. So, you know, so you can't really hurt me there. I'm an independent. I've said it multiple times. So that's the one identity. Because people tried to put you in the dichotomy of identity. Are you Republican or Democrat?

You sound like a liberal. You sound like a conservative. Well, I'm an independent, and so I don't care if you smear Republicans. I don't care. That's right. That's my party. That's right. You know, I. I've literally heard people say, your party. And I. And I say, I don't have party. I'm. I'm independent. That's right. I don't. I don't. I've never identified as a republic. The most that someone's ever seen me say is, I voted Republican once in my entire life. That's it.

But I'm independent, so you can't attack on the party. You can attack me, particularly on political ideology, because in some things, I'm pretty liberal. On other things, I'm kind of conservative on. I said, I'm independent, so you can't attack me as being part of this party and part of that party. So, like, throughout the line, I don't pigeonhole myself into a particular box that someone can constantly attack. So, which means you now have to attack what I say. Right?

I've never worn the Trump hat. I've never done. I've never done any of these things. I've purposely not set up a trap for myself. And everything I've tweeted, I stand behind. So attack what I said. And that's the thing. If you attack something and I didn't say it, well, then you're not attacking me. You're attacking someone else. And so. Or the avatar. Yeah, taking the avatar. So everything that I do on that platform is very much so thought about, I think about all this.

Early on, I would schedule my tweets. I would do like. I would schedule like three tweets in a given day, and there were times that I would schedule it, and then two hours later, I would go in and refine it because I want to add in a word so someone can't mistake, I said. And so everything was perfectly crafted as to how I want to say it. And I knew that crafting this way would elicit this particular response. Now, whether it became a successful tweet or not is a different story.

But I care more about the response and less about the success of it. The success will come, whatever. But I cared more about the response. And so I think if people were more crafty and thoughtful about what they put out, even down to just the particular word that they might use. Right. Because one word might assist someone to be angry. One word elicit empathy. And you could be talking about the same thing. Right.

So that's where for me, the advantage of writing constantly and reading people and understanding, like when I said this, they're going to think this, or if I say this word, they're no longer going to consider the rest of what I say. Because that's the thing too. If you, if you use a word that is very polarizing, they forget everything else that you said. They just focus on that word, you know, so it's. That's a real thing too. Yeah, the cognitive red light. Like, as soon as I see that, I stop.

So can I, Can I push on something that you said a little bit? Sure. So. So I, I think it's. It's. I've noticed that your, Your identity less in your Twitter, and I've. I've felt that. That, I guess that presence, or it's not a lack of presence. I felt that character of your Twitter. So. So you. So you have the photo of Thomas Olap. You don't identify as a black conservative, and you don't build a lot on top of your blackness in general.

But is that, is there not a way in which that is also a statement, considering so many black people today, it seems to me, and I mean, so many different groups are taught to build their identity on top of their identity. Right. Is that, Is that not a statement in and of itself? I appreciate the statement, but is that not a statement in and of itself. Yeah, I guess you could say that. It's. It's a. It's a statement, but it's. It's a difficult statement to pin me down on. Okay, I'm not over.

I'm not overtly saying I reject this. I'm just not talking about it right much. In the same way I don't talk about Israel and Palestine, not because I support Israel or I support Palestine, but I just don't talk about it. So the, the absence of it just leaves people to, I don't know, think that either it doesn't matter that much to me or I don't. I don't care, or I just care to share. So this leaves a lot of misery behind it. But like the, the race thing, see, this is.

All right, so this is the benefit of not just having Twitter to write and writing for other places, because Twitter is good for certain things, but it's not good for everything. And so if people really want to attack me, they need to read the articles that I write, because then they'll really get the full grasp of what I think about stuff. But my Twitter is only used for certain things at certain times because you can't have as much as people want. You can't have every discussion on there.

Like, it's just going to evolve into stupidity. So if you want to know how I feel about something, I'm going to get it published and put it here. You go, read it and you make up your mind what you think about it. Just call it a day. So because of that, when I get accused of being a Trump sycophant, like, because one thing, that's the avatar they see, like, such and such follows you. Such and such follows you. So you must be a Trumper. And this and this and that.

And I'm like, oh, if I'm a Trump sycophant, so read my article in the New York Post where I said that Ron DeSantis would be a better option than Donald Trump. Here you go. Here's the link. You know, if I'm a Trump sick fan, how come I never voted for him? Like, so it's just. It's down. It's down to these different things where I can.

I can literally hit somebody with a link and say, actually, not only did I state the opposite of what you're stating, I stated with one of the biggest publications in the country, the oldest paper in the country. I'm very proud to say, oldest paper in the country. So here you go. I can Send you the newspaper clipping if you want. You know, it's that kind of thing. So that's where I kind of leave that stuff off Twitter, because I can't. I can't have everything there.

Obviously I put links to articles that I write on Twitter, but to put stuff in Twitter statements and stuff like that and try to explain how I feel about everything. Under. Honestly, for some of the stuff, I don't even want feedback on it. Like, I. When I publish this stuff, these publications, I don't, I don't read comments. I learned lesson one time I read the comments. Probably wise. Yeah, I. I read it one time on for the New York Post, and it was something about giving thanks.

And I was like, oh, let me read the comments. And I read the first comment, it was something insane. And I was like, of course. What? Lesson learned. Don't read the comments. So literally everything that I put out there, I just. I just don't read the comments. If I put it for a publication, I don't read it. This is how I feel. You like it, you hate it. I don't care. I don't Google, search my name and see if people talking about me.

I prefer that people don't share stuff about what I'm saying, what saying about me. Like I care. Let them say whatever they want. I don't care. You know, this is for me. I. I don't. I don't really care if try to bring it to me, I block them and I move on. Don't even acknowledge them because I realize at that moment I'm more relevant and they want to get my attention. They want me to fight with them and stuff like that. And that's not my purpose here. I. I'm not here to fight with you.

So it's exactly why you don't see Twitter draw between me and anybody else. I don't. I just literally don't argue with people I might criticize, like some leftists. But usually when I do that, I block them and I do a screenshot and move on. This is that idea. It's dumb, doesn't make sense. Here's why. And I move on with the rest of life. So I. Everything that I do on that website, it is carefully constructed because I ask myself, what is the purpose of this? Right? Is this beneficial to me?

It's a big question. If I say this, what's the benefit from this? And if there's no benefit, I just don't do it. What's the benefit? If I acknowledge the person, it's like when Roland Martin didn't like one of my pieces in the New York Post and he misframed what I was trying to say and I saw it like at three in the morning and I was like, to respond to Roland Martin. No, Block went back to sleep. Bye. And that's it, bro. Goodbye. I don't care.

Go ahead, talk with, with your five actual interactive followers. Go ahead and talk about me. I don't care. I'm going to go back to sleep next to my wife and enjoy my rest. So, you know, it's that kind of thing. I don't, I don't give people the time of day when it comes to stuff like this. If you don't like it, then that's, that's your problem. Yeah, I have a similar thought process.

Like if I'm going to post this, am I ready to take on all the consequences intended or otherwise from this post today? Like if I were to post this right now and this goes mega viral and it gets subjected to millions of views, like Twitter is the only platform in the world, I think, where you can write, where you have to write something knowing that no one might see it and everyone might see it at the same time. Like, it's impossible.

It's impossible to write something that no one will see and everyone will see. Right. So for me it's like, ah, do I feel if this were to go viral today for whatever reason, do I really feel like dealing with it? No, I don't feel like with it today. So, you know, just like save it and draft or delete or something like that. Or sometimes I get lucky and, you know, sometimes I'll hit the wrong button, it'll get deleted on its own. I'm like, thanks, God, I appreciate you making that call for me.

But it's a, it's a, it's a real thing to have to calculate that to say, oh, you know, given that, like you, I hold myself accountable for all my words. I posted it, I said it, this is on me. So, you know, on my podcast, these are my words, Instagram, email list, all of it. And so having that level of accountability means a certain degree of thoughtfulness.

It can't just be hot takes, it can't just be like, I'm just going to pop off on this random person on this comment just for fun, because I have to be accountable for what happens with that comment. As you had to go through humbling yourself to reach out to that woman to say, hey, that was a moment where you were not thoughtful about what you were saying, or maybe you also didn't have all the information. You were not as thoughtful as you otherwise would have liked to be.

And so you went back with thoughtfulness to make restitution and that. We don't want to make a policy out of that. Like you don't want to be doing that every day because the conscience hit of like, of dealing with it for an entire day of like the conscience nagging, you know, and that's not a bad thing. But the conscience saying like, hey, that wasn't so good. Like, oh, it's, it's, it's painful. It's really, really painful.

And so I'd rather live in alignment and maybe not go as viral or maybe not be have as hot takes like, well, I would rather be accountable for my words than just be, you know, fire blasting everything out there and you know, yolo. Yeah, exactly. I have the same thought process. So do you want to talk about some of the work you do on Wrong Speak for a second? Because you mentioned that's where you have some of your more in depth thoughts. Maybe we can just talk about that for a bit.

Well, actually, with Wrong Speak, I started it. I technically started while I was writing the book. Then I took a hiatus. It was mainly a place for me to kind of rant about stuff while I was writing the book. Sure. But I, after the book, I want to turn into a platform and invite people to write. Regular people, people who are aspiring to be writers. I was just inviting people to tell their story, their, their viewpoints, whatever. And with the premise that it's free speech, intellectual thought.

So, you know, I, you know, we talk about hate speech and stuff like that. White supremacy, for example. It's not intellectual. It's very stupid. Right. Just so that's why I'm like, yes, we're free speech ish. You know, like, obviously some guys, like, let me tell you about being a Nazi is great. Like obviously we wouldn't publish that because that's not very intellectual. Right. That's really.

So that's why, you know, the pursuit for free speech in its absolute form, I understand to an extent, but I also understand that a platform like X can't be profitable in the long run.

It's going to come to a point where Elon's going to have to make stronger rules regarding speech or he's going to have to implement even stronger freedom of speech, but not reach policies that might piss off other people to make those particular people the people who's pop in and say the Jews did everything Those guys back to gab and just. And wherever. But as far as once we goes, we encourage people to submit articles.

Most of the articles are voluntary, just regular people who want to write, who want to express themselves. We got into news for a bit, getting some journalists to highlight stories that are interesting, not necessarily clickbaity. And we're trying to dabble with book publishing. So not just my book, but we have one other book here, the Luminesque Manual, Elizabeth Lang, which is a fictional book, Aurelian and its take. So, you know, we're trying to be a springboard.

I think that's kind of the best way. A lot of people want to be the best at this and the best this and the top this, where I care more about the creators. I care more about giving them an opportunity to be seen. So we've had people who've had articles seen by, especially the Federalists, where the Federalists reached out to me, like, hey, can you connect me to this writer? And I help them. I've had writers reach out to me asking, can you connect me to this publication? And I try to help them.

So try to foster an environment where we're helping to support different people. And much in the way as I've caught some success, I use my name to kind of pay it forward for other people. So, for example, I. I have three editors. All three editors live in different places. But I went to a convention in Phoenix. I got my editor that lives in Arizona a pass to come in, and we met in person. I did an event last year in Memphis.

I got one of my editors a pass and the flight to come into Memphis to be with us to meet in person, come to a convention. This year, went to Vegas. I got another editor pass and I paid for it to come out to Vegas to help sell books and be on a panel as well, introduce these people to people within the media that I've met and get their name out there, interact people. And none of that would have been possible without wrong speed. And for two of my editors, when I met them, they were anonymous.

One of them used some random screen name in an avatar. Now she uses her full name and her picture. The second one used her picture but an alias. And I convinced her to, well, and here's the thing, say convinced. I actually didn't tell them to do it. They asked me, should I do it? Because they were looking at me like, adam's a regular guy using his real name and everything. And I'm like, listen, don't be so scared. And they on their Own came to me one day and said, you know what? I'm gonna.

I'm gonna use my real name and my picture. I'm like, go for it. And they did. And I. And since then, they don't regret and they feel so much freer because hiding, Hiding yourself is so restrictive in having. Fearful that someone is going to do something. Like, it's like, no, that's part of the problem of censorship is self censorship. It's making you scared that something's going to happen to you.

It's taking that horror story of that poor person who got canceled and making you think that's common rather than being extremely rare that that's going to happen. So, like, that is how they win, is by making you scared. So don't be scared. And if you're. That's why for me, if someone attempted to. It's hard for someone to attempt to cancel now. Especially because I've been so open and vulnerable about my life and writing for major publications. I'm not hiding.

So the people who are, who are the biggest victims of cancer culture, the people who are trying to hide and they have something that they're. Whether it be a job that they have that it's really precious of them, they don't want, that's when they come even harder. We're going to take that from you because you're scared of it. And for me, I'm like, man, I've had nothing. I've had absolutely nothing. Like, go ahead and take it. Like, I. It sucks, sure, but I'll be okay. I'll be okay.

And now I'm not by myself. I have a lovely family, my wife and everything to back me up as well, which is extremely beneficial. But even if I didn't have her, like, I, I wouldn't be scared. Um, because I think being scared is how they come after you. Um, when you're hiding and don't want to be canceled, that's when they come harder. But I, I, from the very beginning, I was prepared for this. I used my real name. I used my face. My real face is what I really look like.

I've always been transparent about my life and things that I've done. I talk about my faults. I talk about things that I did wrong. I talk about my progress, my success and failures, everything. So it's hard to try to cancel me because I'm not scared. Like, I'm not hiding something. So it's. And on top of that, I'm not. I'm not that controversial. Like, I really noticed Right. It's a blessing to be able to use.

I think, what you said earlier about integrity and confidence and the path that you've walked and having Christ and travel, like all of these pieces kind of come together to have you standing on a stable platform that you treat responsibly as a human being and treating other human beings as human beings. And so that gives you. And of course, you're using your real face and your real name, and so there's nothing really to be found out. There's no place really for them to go.

And you're on solid foundation, say, within yourself, and you're on solid foundation with God and your conscience. Right. And you're in a solid foundation with your family. It's those men that need to be fighting, and men need to get to that place before they can start fighting, before they can start really fighting. And I think that there's such a need for that, because those men can create a sense of safety for others around them to then use their voice like, yes, I'll take this for you.

Right. I'll take. Oh, I will take the heat. I will draw the fire, because I'm in a stable foundation. Then just come and join me and let's all push these ideas together. To me, that's. That's one of the definitions of leadership today. Yeah, I agree with him. Well, this has been a fantastic conversation. I greatly appreciate your generosity of time and generosity of spirit. We didn't talk about any of the things that I expected we would, but we talked about far better things.

And so I appreciate the. I appreciate the opportunity to connect on so many different aspects of life that are important to me, and to discover that they were also important to you was. Was a great blessing and a great surprise. So thank you. Thank you. I do appreciate you as well. So where would you like to send people to find out more about what you have about you and what you do? Definitely on Twitter or whatever you want to call it at. Wrong. Underscore Speak. I'm on Substack.

You can go to ww.com or Adam B. Coleman substack.com because the same place. And my brick bread series on YouTube. You can go there YouTube.com/speak and you can watch the different episodes just real quick. Breaking Bread is a series that I started doing. I basically sit down, enjoy a deal with people, and we talk politics, life, culture, religion, whatever. It's in person only. So they sometimes come to my house. I travel there.

This weekend, I'm going to D.C. and I'll be sitting down with one or two people. So it's a very casual, nice experience. And I'm basically a one man, one man show as far as setting up the equipment and all this other stuff and learning that over the past year. And this is, this is one of the cameras that I use too. Do you bring lights with you? Just real quick, I saw, I saw a bunch of those. I wasn't sure what they were, but it was like, wow, this is someone's actual house.

Like, this isn't a set. Like, what a, what a thing to be invited so far into someone's life. But do you bring lights with you or is it just the camera? Do you find a well lit spot? So over the past year has been a progression and upgrading stuff and I completely underwhelmed lighting and so I invested in a light I'm using right now. I invested in this light. Awesome time ago. And man, I'm so glad I did that. I was like, oh, this is so much better.

Yeah, it's so much better because before I was trying to use natural light and then, you know, the sun would move and then it would just be all this other stuff. So now I'll be traveling with a couple of boom mics. I got three cameras. I got the big light here, you know, I got my sound recorder. I got like, I have a whole, a whole setup. And what's crazy is I take it on the road too. I, I, I just, I was just in Atlanta. I've been to Florida a couple times.

I've been to London twice with it, you know, so I've, I've traveled a bunch with this setup as well as dc. I've been dc, like, I think this would be my fourth time filming in DC for Brain Bread. So I, I'm always ticking on the road as well as inviting people into my home to sit down and have a conversation. Well, it's a great looking series and I look forward to checking out. It looks like some very personal conversations. Yep. Yeah. Thank you. Great. Well, thank you very much, Adam.

I appreciate it. My pleasure. Sa.