Chris Hill: Community Power for Public Lands

Speaker 1 0:00 Chris The following is a production of wild idea media. Bill Hodge 0:05 Welcome to the wild idea podcast, where we are exploring the intersection of wild nature and our own human nature. Today, we're bringing you a conversation with Chris Hill, the Chief Executive Officer of the conservation lands Foundation, a leading advocacy group of public lands nationwide, speaking of strong advocacy roots and congrats are in order for my co host, the newly minted board president of the Virginia wilderness committee. Oh, hi, Anders Reynolds 0:31 Bill. That's right. And thanks to you for mentioning it. As you know from my role antagonizing you as the board chair of the organization you founded and helmed for so long. When duty calls, I answer, truly, it's a spirit of service with me, Bill Hodge 0:51 but something like that. Anders Reynolds 0:53 Seriously, I'm very, very honored and very, very happy to be stepping into the role of board president with VWC. It is a small but mighty group focused on permanently protecting the best of Virginia's wild places for future generations, and thanks to stellar leadership from its executive director Ellen Stewart hanchen, it has had some great success lately on campaigns to protect Shenandoah mountain and preserve the roadless rule. So you know, if you're out there listening and you're curious, you can support that work by going to VA wilderness.org I know I'm looking forward to building on that success, but But Bill, I just want to say something about the outgoing board chair, Tim Mahoney. Tim arrived in DC in 1978 as one of Debbie ceases buckaroos and retired just a few years ago without my ever having seen him not wearing a suit. So he went through a transition. He was in the middle of every important conservation fight from the late 70s until just a few years ago, and his theories on legislative advocacy are still effective, and they are central to my own efforts and successes on the Hill today. Tim took a risk hiring me at Pew 14 years ago, and ever since that time, I've benefited from his wisdom. He's the one that taught me that you should never trade a place for a process, and I owe him a lot. It's going to be fun stepping into his shoes. It's just a damn shame he's a Red Sox fan. I think so. I've been lucky to have some great mentors in conservation. You're large among them, Bill, but Tim may have been the first. Do you consider anyone your mentor? Bill Hodge 2:39 Yeah. I mean absolutely, including our dear friend Rob Mason, who I learned a lot from, who is now the Idaho State Director for The Wilderness Society. Even though he's, I guess, more peer aged, I learned a lot. I learned a lot from, from Rob over the years, Bill meadows, our former Board Chair at the organization you mentioned, also former president of the Wilderness Society, there are a few of them out there. I think we all sort of stand on the shoulders of the people who helped light the way for us. So yeah, there are several out there for me, Anders Reynolds 3:09 Bill, before we proceed, I want to share some news with our community that we've been teasing for a couple of weeks. As folks probably know by now, you're flying to DC in a couple weeks so that you and I can record our very first podcast in front of a live audience. Well, now that all the details are in place, I wanted to share a little bit more about that recording as part of National Wilderness week. Though, wild idea will be interviewing Minnesota Senator Tina Smith, who not only introduced legislation to protect the Boundary Waters Canoe Area wilderness from sulfide mining. But as a member of the Senate Agriculture Committee, plays a key role in crafting national forest policy across the United States. I know I speak for you when I say we are very, very excited about this conversation. If you want more details, you'll have to visit our website, thewildidea.com and sign up for our newsletter, but tickets should be available soon. Yeah, Bill Hodge 4:04 we are super excited for that conversation and excited for our first chance to record in front of a studio audience so people can see our shenanigans in in sort of the flesh right there. Well, we'll save that for another day, for for a few weeks down the road in DC. Meanwhile, let's get to this great conversation today. Chris Hill is the Chief Executive Officer of the conservation lands Foundation. She shares southern roots with Anders and I, and shares a communications undergrad degree with yours truly, a couple communication grads here. She is deeply passionate about grassroots work and fly fishing. She is a pioneer in changing the face of conservation. I suggest you check out the Vimeo for the film where I belong, but right now, I ask you to join us in welcoming Chris to the podcast. Chris, thanks so much for joining us. Chris Hill 4:51 Thank you for having me. It's nice to see you all well. It's Bill Hodge 4:55 good to have you here. I just really appreciate you joining us and bringing us to talk about. The Conservation Lands foundation and your personal journey to leading such an important organization. Let's start there, if you will. I'd love to hear about your early connections to public lands and kind of what pulled you into this world, what pulled you into this work? Chris Hill 5:13 Yeah, that's a great question. Bill, you know, I born and raised in Washington, DC area. My whole family still lives there. I'm the only one that left and left very far away. I'm now in southeast Alaska, and I can remember, you know, I probably was middle school time. I loved speaking of communications. I loved photography. Expression, through arts and music and all of those sort of things. I was very, very much in that realm growing up. I hated the outdoors, um, you know, DC is very humid in the summer. And so it it's really quite miserable most of the time in DC. And I try very hard when I come back to visit not to come back in the summer. And people are like, Oh, you're from DC. You should be used to it. No, nobody's ever used to the humidity in the DC area and and so I didn't really like being outside, and my mom went to, like, a school auction that we had to raise money for some something happening at the school, and she won this week of adventure camp for me. And she said, Chris, you're going to this adventure camp. I don't know what it is, but I won the week, and you're gonna go to it this summer. And it turns out that the camp was my favorite teacher, Mrs. Markoff. She was my English teacher. It was her husband in her husband's brother's camp. And so I went to Mrs. Markoff, and I was like, Mrs. Markoff, what is this camp? Are we outside all day long? And like, is there any air conditioning or anything like that? And she said, No, you're outside all day long, and you can pick whatever sports you want. You want to do, rock climbing, rafting, canoeing, kayaking. So I chose rock climbing, and I went to this camp, and I was really nervous because it was outside. The cool part about this camp. It was called Camp Culebra. And the cool part about it is that they not only taught you how to, you know, excel in the sport, whatever it was, but they also taught you about conservation and leave no trace ethics and instilling the importance of what it means to be in nature, to share nature with with, with other people, and then also to leave it for future generations and generations to come. And at that moment is really the the turn in what I wanted to do with the rest of my life and the rest of my career. Bill Hodge 7:57 At some point it looks like fly fishing slipped in there. How did that become a part of your your time in the outdoors? Chris Hill 8:04 You know, climbing was I was all in on climbing, right? I loved it. I loved multi pitch climbing, sport routes, all those things. And I would go all across the country with Camp kaleva. I became a counselor, and all all the things in rock climbing, I was very much a land person, and you know, maybe we can talk later about our roots in the south, but climbing is what got me to Appalachian State University. It was in a climbing magazine. It was like top five schools on the East Coast for climbers, and Appalachian State was one of them. And then fast forward, I was at, I was coming up to Alaska to do a trip. I think it was a backpacking trip. And towards the end of the trip, I was going to go to Katmai National Park to see the bears on the falls. And as I was there watching, you know, 20 or 30 bears on the Falls eating salmon. It was coolest thing. There were these people right below the falls catching fish. And I asked the park ranger. I was like, What are they doing? This is wild. They're so close to the bears, like, this is dangerous. And he's like, Oh, they're fly fishing. And I was like, oh, that sounds that looks dangerous, so close to the bears, and he said, You should come out. We're gonna come out. We're gonna go out this afternoon. You should come out and try it. So I went out with them, and first cast, I caught a salmon. And I was like, this is the easiest thing I've ever done. And then I didn't catch another fish for like, three hours after that. So I went back home to Maryland, I found this women's group, Chesapeake women anglers, and they really just taught me how to fish. And just being in community with other women who were fishing, I really fell in love with it, and till this day, that was years ago. Until this day, it's still one of my favorite pastimes. Anders Reynolds 9:59 Thanks. So first of all, shout out, Mrs. Markoff, but Chris, thanks so much for joining us today. I want to add my thank you. You know, I referenced my day job as a lobbyist when I was talking about Tim Mahoney earlier, who, by the way, taught at Appalachian State for a little while. Oh, no way. Yeah, in my role as lobbyists, I couldn't help but notice last month that the Senate appropriation committee's mark of the interior spending bill rejected steep cuts requested by the White House to the Bureau of Land management's national conservation land system. That was a huge legislative success, and one I know was largely led by your organization to catch our listeners up. Could you talk about our national conservation lands? What even are they? Chris Hill 10:50 Anders? Great question, and that was a big win that we just saw, and we're going to continue to monitor the appropriations process as it moves forward. But just to back us up a little bit, the National Conservation Lands system. What is it? Not a lot of people have heard about it. Nobody really has heard about the Bureau of Land Management, the national conservation land system. This is the 25th anniversary this year. So it's only been, it's it's very young. It's a very young system. It's only been around 25 years. It's a network of, I would say, some of the most spectacular, culturally rich, ecologically important lands that are managed by the Bureau of Land Management. BLM, so this system was established in 2000 by the then Secretary of Interior, Bruce Babbitt. And he established these this system by secretarial order. And basically worked to bring together all of BLM lands with a conservation purpose and mandate under a unified management within the BLM, and really worked to elevate those lands and giving them the status that they deserve and that they deserve now. And so his secretarial order set forth the mission of the conservation the national conservation lands, and it was to conserve, protect and restore these nationally significant landscapes that really had outstanding cultural, ecological and scientific values for the benefit of this generation and future generations to come. Nine years later, Congress then recognized and established by legislation the national conservation land system. So what we have today is around 38 million acres in 900 plus recognized areas around the around the country, and these are areas like national monuments. So think of Bears Ears, National Monument or grand you know, grand staircase and Bears Ears, so forth. There are also national conservation areas, Wild and Scenic Rivers, National Historic Trails, wilderness areas, wilderness study areas. I like to think about these places as like the spaces in between our our national parks, if you will. Yeah, that's what the system is. Anders Reynolds 13:33 I like that metaphor. And the mission of conservation lands Foundation is to protect, restore and expand the national conservation land system through advocacy, education and partnerships, correct? Tell us more about your organization's history and how you accomplish that mission. Chris Hill 13:52 Yep, that's That's exactly right. Anders, so I like to think of the conservation lands foundation as the community power mobilizers for public lands. So we represent a broad, non partisan national network of community leaders and advocates that are solely focused on expanding, protecting and restoring public lands that are managed by the BLM and you know, as you know, the BLM oversees the largest amount of our country's public lands at 245 million acres, which is larger than Forest Service, right, and three times larger than the National Park Service, but only 15% of those lands are federally protected under what I just talked about, the National Conservation Lands so this is where and why we focus and the community groups that we work with focus on solely protecting those lands. We're the only organization that has that sole mission. And we do this by powering that national network of over 80 community led land conservation organizations across the west. So that's kind of our secret sauce. The you know, we really see that the power of community advocacy, community based advocacy, grassroots advocacy, that model, which is investing in local leaders to protect their public lands, has proven time and time again across you know, history shows it as one of the most effective strategies in protecting natural landscapes in the United States. And so we were founded in 2007 and since then, I we have protected over 12 million acres, and that's, you know, safeguarding a lot of our local waterways and critical wildlife habitat, and then also safeguarding access for all for these areas and for this generation and future generations to come. Bill Hodge 16:01 You know, I love that metaphor. You that sort of the BLM is those special places between the national parks, but, but a lot of those landscapes sort of stand on their own right, like they're amazing landscapes that probably to a lot of our public may even think of them as national parks. Could you maybe just talk about a couple of them I know, like the king range in California as an example. And I also know that you're really, you really stressed with the team there, that you guys work in place with the people who are closest to these landscapes. But could you, could you maybe give our listeners a snapshot of what maybe a couple of those sort of landscapes are that are managed under the National Land Conservation System? Chris Hill 16:37 You're right, Bill. They do speak for themselves, and some that folks may know about, Bears Ears, national monument that was designated in 2016 there's Avi Kwa Ame in 2023 Chuckwalla National Monument in Southern California, Cotoni-Coast Dairies National Monument. There are so many across the west and Alaska, and there's one small one, I will note there's one small one in Florida, that is Jupiter inlet lighthouse. So we got, you know, big up to to the east coast there. But these are all places where, you know, they're in the backyards of communities where there's camping and fishing and hunting, all of that access on these lands that you know may not be as crowded as our national parks or as you know, well known. But to the folks who go there, those are the places that create those memories for their friends and family. Bill Hodge 17:49 Yeah, they're, I'm going to the king range myself here in just a couple months, and I'm super excited to be back back into that place. And it's not a place people tend to think of a BLM. It's not the desert, right? It's, it's like an incredibly and they're just this array of landscapes. I wonder. You know, you guys spoke, you guys focus on those national conservation land system, but BLM has long had a perception problem, right? The old line about the Bureau of livestock and mining, you know? But some of that has shifted a little bit, but we started to shift some of the focus away from extraction, even further with the public lands rule. But obviously some of that stuff is under pressure today, and some of those designations that put some lands into the national conservation land system are, I'll just say, under pressure today, and we're back to, if not to spoiling. We're maybe even looking at divesting. So what do you think the future of the agency itself is like, Do you have a feel for you know, the public certainly rallied against Mike Lee's efforts to sell off public lands. But where do you think we are and in helping the public understand there's not just the national parks or the National Forest, but there's BLM and there's the wildlife refuges. But what do you think about that future of the BLM? Chris Hill 18:59 That's a good question, Bill and one that we've really been thinking about, Oh, really over this year. You know, as we looked at we sort of did a look back of the 25 years in the national conservation land system and looking forward to the next 25 years, what is that going to look like for the system and for BLM? You know, as we all know, the agency is a multi use agency, right? They have, like you said, law, there's, there's extractive industry and extractive work within the within the agency, as well as within this conservation land system, the effort to conserve and protect these special areas, and as the largest land owner in the United States, I think it's pretty clear where the agency should be going, just from. From the outcry that happened during the public land sell off campaign. What was that a month ago or so? It's clear that folks want to keep public lands in public hands and be able to have access to those lands to hunt and fish and recreate on for this generation and future generations to come. And the idea that we would sell those lands off for further extraction and further extractive use is not in the interest of the public, and that that transcends political parties, which I think is a really interesting piece. When you look at all of the issues that we are being confronted with within this administration, a lot of them is part A lot of them are partisan, but the public lands sell off piece in public lands is as non partisan as it gets. And so I think you know, as as the agency looks forward, it's putting more of those lands into the national conservation land system and preserving while also still doing the multi use mandate that they have it as an organization, but being able to do it in a way that really lifts up some of these special areas for protection. Anders Reynolds 21:26 I want to ask you about the public land sell off. You know, advocacy work can be exhausting, especially in times like these, when progress feels slow or setbacks keep coming. You know, as a leader of a conservation organization, how do you personally fight against advocate fatigue, and what practices help you, or maybe help your team, stay joyful and motivated in the work of protecting nature. Chris Hill 22:01 Oh, Anders, that is like the the million dollar question that I think a lot of us are struggling, to be honest, right are struggling with right now, I think we got to think back a little bit further from the happenings of this administration. You know, we're coming out of a time period where none of us had, none of us in society had been through a pandemic. You know, we didn't know what that looked like, how that was gonna sort of unravel, what that would do to our the social dynamics of this society, our mental state and so forth. And you know, I think when I think of fatigue and burnout, it leads me back to some of those years during covid, the years coming out, there wasn't a real reckoning of or recognition of the the weight and anxiety that happened with our society during that time, the burnout that happened during that time, and then we went straight into this administration. And so there wasn't a lot of rest that happened before we we started to really started to see what this administration was going to put forth and the things that we were going to have to fight for. And so we came in to these fights a bit tired, I would say. And I think recognizing that, and then also recognizing why we do what we do, and who we do it for, and why, why we do this work, why we do this advocacy work, why we care, why, where we're passionate. And I mean, a lot of folks will say they're passionate about either it's climate change or biodiversity, or ensuring that there's access to lands for recreational purposes, for the enjoyment, and then also for our physical well being and our mental well being. And so one of the things that as we move through this year, the things that I really have been working on with our with our staff and our communities, is remembering the joy that we get when we go out onto the land and remembering to keep bringing that joy back into the work that we do. And so what does that look like, going outside, putting your feet on the grass, getting your hands dirty, going for a walk or a hike in the woods with your family and friends? It's taking that Friday off to go do that, right, and remembering why we're doing this work. I think the other thing too is there's a lot of fighting, fight, fight, fight, right? There's also, there's, you know, as I mentioned, there's the 25th anniversary of this system that creates joy. We're going to celebrate that. Even though the administration may not want to celebrate it, we're going to celebrate it because those are really fun times that we had in protecting the lands that we love and the communities that we live in. And so all throughout this year, we have had 25th anniversary events on a lot of the National Conservation Lands units across the West. We bring people out. We have a good time. We laugh. We're on the land, you know? We do some cleanups and that sort of thing. And that just reminds folks of, hey, this is why we're doing it. We're having a great time. We love these lands. This is why we fight for for what we're fighting for right now? Bill Hodge 26:01 Yeah, I'm reminded of Edward Abbey's essay that some people refer to as being the half assed advocate, right? You have to still get out there and put your put your feet on the landscape. And that doesn't have to be one of these, you know, landscapes in the West, or where you are in Alaska. It could be in your backyard. It could be making sure that you remember why, why you became an advocate, why you got into this work. I'm going to maybe bring us back to the south a little bit. Some of those places I imagine, for you, are far flung across the country. I'm assuming, if you went to Appalachian State because of the appeal of climbing, you've probably spent time in Linville Gorge, a place that's near and dear to my heart. But now you live in Haines, Alaska, and friends with our dear friends, Blaine and Monique Anderson, who have the sailboat, the Bob, I mean, all of these things that we have in our lives, we need to remember those moments and go back and, I guess, touch those places again to remind ourselves at the low moments when the work feels so hard that that's, that's why we do the work, right? Chris Hill 27:02 Exactly. That's, that's absolutely right. Bill, so this, you mentioned this Edward Abbey quote, I have it on my desk here. It's been on my desk for, I don't know, 15 years now. And it's the don't burn yourself out. One, is it that? Bill Hodge 27:19 One? Yeah, please share it. If you haven't, please share it. Chris Hill 27:23 Here's this quote from Edward Abbey, don't burn yourself out. Be as I am, a reluctant enthusiast, a part time Crusader, a half hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourself in your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land, it is even more important to enjoy it where you can while it is still here. So get out there and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forest, encounter the Grizz, climb the mountains, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and Lucid Air. Sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness that lovely, mysterious and awesome space. Enjoy yourself. Keep your brain in your head, in your head, firmly attached to your body and the body active and alive. And I promise you this, I promise you that this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk bound people with their hearts in a safe deposit box, in their eyes, hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this, you will outlive those bastards. Anders Reynolds 28:41 Man, oh man, if y'all keep going down this track, I am going to log out of the podcast. You have got me ready to run out the door. Bill Hodge 28:49 Probably remember, right, you're heading to Lake Washington for the weekend, so you're going to be touching grass this weekend, or touching the water. Is it? Maybe I'm so close, just a day away. Chris Hill 29:00 There you go. There you go. Bill Hodge 29:03 We've talked a little bit about places and the in the work of the organization. I want to come back to you for a minute, if you're okay with this. Besides the assault on public lands, we also have the assault on the fact that we've been trying to make our public lands reflective of all Americans. You know, it's touched on in the film I mentioned off the top, where I belong, you know, as a black woman working in this space and knowing that you know Carolyn finney's Great Book of, you know, brown faces and white spaces, and the work that that a lot of us, regardless of our own personal backgrounds have been committed to that work continues now, right? We can be told that we're not focusing on three initials anymore, or that funding might be at risk, but we still have to do that work to make sure that our public land system reflects our country as a whole. Am I? I just kind of want to give you. Moment to talk about that, because I think, I think that also is a part of what's tearing at the fiber of our public land system, right? Chris Hill 30:05 You know, Bill that work is always going to continue, right? Whether we don't use those three letters or we change, you know, what it may look like on the outside, the work continues on the ground. And you know the idea that we have equitable access to the outdoors, whether that means you have access you are in an urban area and you have access to green space and our parks through transit options and routes. You know that work is always going to continue, and there's some great people in the communities that will continue to have that. Because here's the thing, is, if in order for us to continue to protect and conserve more nature, whether that's for the enjoyment of this generation and future generations, whether that's for our you know, climate crisis, as we all know, we not only need to move off of fossil fuels, but we need to protect more nature, right for all of the carbon that's already in the air, whatever that is. We have to do it in a way that's accessible for everybody, and we need to do it in a way that includes everybody from society, all folks from all ways of life. And in order to do that, that work still needs to continue on the ground. I think there are some really great organizations out there that will continue to do and work on equitable access to the outdoors, and there's some great organizations that are also doing that with kids and getting Kids outside. And I, love, you know, I did a lot of work in that space, in my previous career and my previous job, and I loved that work, because working with the next generation coming up, man, are they awesome, right? And, wow, it is. It is fun. It's just fun to be around that generation that is like, what? Duh, of course, we're gonna have equitable access to the outdoors, and of course we're gonna protect more nature. Like, What are y'all doing? Of course, we're doing this. And the amount of enthusiasm, and not just enthusiasm, but actual work, is really impressive. And so, you know, growing up, I didn't see a lot of people who looked like me out in nature or at the crag. I didn't see a lot of people who looked like me in the REI catalog when we or when we used to get catalogs in the mail, I didn't see a lot of people who looked like me, but, but, and here's the thing, is that was on purpose, because a lot of people who looked like me were outside doing stuff and were, you know, at the crag or on the water, kayaking and boating and fishing and so forth. And over the last decade or so, I have seen that change within particularly within the outdoor industry, and there's so much more work for us to be doing and to be done, and that work, that work, that work is going to continue. As much as you know, the work within the communities for further protections of public lands is continuing. Wow. Well, Bill Hodge 33:39 we've been talking to Chris Hill, the Chief Executive Officer of the conservation lands Foundation, if you can't tell, because this isn't a video podcast, an audio podcast. She has a smile that will light up a room, and she has an energy that will help us light our way forward. And that answer right there kind of sums it up. We just keep doing the work. It may seem like a really difficult, dark time, but there are people like Chris and her team other organizations across the country who are doing doing the work today, just like they were doing the work eight months ago, and like they were doing the work 20 years ago. And I think, Chris, I can't thank you enough for coming on and just sort of sharing that energy, sharing that smile, sharing that that passion you have for the work of conservation lands foundation, but also just the work of that we all have, including the piece about being a half ass advocate and getting outside and remember why you're doing the work. Yeah, Chris, Anders Reynolds 34:31 I can't thank you enough for the time today. I've really enjoyed this conversation, and as Bill mentioned, I'm so grateful that you reminded us why we do it, and for reminding us that hard work and joyful work are two sides of the same coin. Chris Hill 34:48 Okay, so, Bill, we heard where Anders is going? Where are you going? Outside this weekend, Bill Hodge 34:55 I'm actually heading over to Spokane, Washington. So I live in northwest, Montana, and I have to. Go meet some folks and spend a little time near priest Lake, Idaho, and spend some time in Spokane and and also spend some time also here, probably in Glacier National Park. So I plan on being outside and getting involved in the outdoors like I always do. And what about you? You're gonna go see some friends of ours very soon, right? Chris Hill 35:18 I am, yeah, you mentioned Blaine and Monique with sailboat Bob. We're gonna, we're gonna sail with them from Juno to Sitka, but before that, we're gonna go to Yakutat, which is on the outer coast of Alaska, to go surfing. Anders Reynolds 35:31 Okay, I'm really gonna log off now. I'm starting to get, Chris Hill 35:37 I mean, I don't know what you know. Who knows if how the servings gonna be, but I think it'll be pretty spectacular. Anders Reynolds 35:45 I hope you have a blast, and I mean that, Bill Hodge 35:49 yeah, that sounds like an amazing time for sure. Chris Hill 35:51 Yeah, thank you all so much. This was really fun just to sit and chat with you all today. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. Bill Hodge 36:00 Well, absolutely, folks, if you want to know more about the conservation lands foundation or the National Conservation Lands system, you'll find those links on our website, the wild idea.com and we look forward to you all checking out their work and following Chris's work as well, and we'll see everybody on down the trail. Speaker 1 36:19 The wild idea is a production of wild idea media and hosted by Bill Hodge and Anders Reynolds. Production and editing by Bren Russell at podlab Digital support by Holly wilkoszewski at daypack digital. Our theme music Spring Hill Jack is from railroad Earth and was composed by John skeehan. Our executive producer and ringleader is Laura Hodge. You can find the wild idea wherever you listen to or download your favorite podcast. If you have a minute, please take a minute to give us a rating, and if you really like us, we hope you'll subscribe. Learn more about us at the wild idea.com you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai