Integrating Fitness and Mental Health: A Holistic Approach to Wellness with Angela Moore

This paradox , as I view it , is the trust , interaction and communication gap that exists between exercise professionals and our medical community . This podcast is all about closing off that gap by disseminating the latest , most evidence-based and most engaging information in the health sciences . And to do that , in episode 133 , we're joined by Angela Moore .

Angela has a very unique background in that she is a personal trainer initially and she also holds a master's degree in counseling , so she really bridges the world of both physical and mental health and in fact , as she's gonna tell you in her story in the beginning of the podcast , she felt like she was dealing with so much psychology as a exercise professional

that she needed to get continuing education in psychology . So she went back and got a master's degree in counseling and so you don't have to do that . She's gonna impart some of the wisdom that she's learned over the years that blend both her background as a personal trainer and exercise professional with her background as a mental health professional doing counseling .

Any information we'd like to share with you from today's episode can be found on the show notes page , that's by going to wellnessparadoxpodcom forward slash episode 133 . I hope you enjoy this conversation with Angela Moore Today . We're delighted to be joined by Angela Moore . Angela , thank you so much for joining us on the podcast .

That's kind of the intersection of physical health , fitness , exercise and mental health . I think this speaks to kind of the growing mental health issues that we're dealing with as a society as a whole . So I'm always really interested in having these conversations .

But before we dive into that , why don't you give our audience a little bit of an idea of your unique background , as they'll see when they read your bio , because it really does blend the worlds of both exercise and mental health and then , after you do that , we can dive into the topic .

I have been in the fitness industry for decades and then , over time , one of the things that I recognized with my clients my personal training clients as well as my group training clients is that they were turning to me for mental health concerns as well as significant life events that they were having trouble dealing with .

Recognizing that , I decided that I wanted to have the expertise as well as the appropriate training to meet the needs of my growing clientele . And so I then went back to school and got another master's in counseling and I am a licensed counselor in the state of Michigan .

And so what my company does originally it started with the Body Principle , which was the name of my studio as well , as I would say that was kind of the organization that I did provided many of my services through and that did provide an integrative health approach , so integrating that mental and physical health aspect .

And then one of the things that I've recognized over time is that people often want to make healthier decisions . Uh , but they don't know necessarily what are those things that they do from a behavioral standpoint and from a mindset standpoint that are counterproductive to the goals they're trying to achieve .

And so that's what my company does , is I help provide the education , the resources , access to information so you can make better decisions , so you can be mentally and physically healthy .

The reason I find it interesting I think every exercise professional that's been in the situation that you've been in where it's clear that clients are coming to them for something that starts out physical and then progresses to something psychological it's rare that those of us that deal with that choose to go back and get a master's degree in counseling to be able

to address it . So kudos to you for doing that and that kind of frames up , I think , the importance of this topic and I think where I want to go next hearing everything that you said .

Importance of this topic and I think where I want to go next , hearing everything that you said , is the majority of people that are listening to this are not going to go back and get a master's degree in counseling and become a licensed counselor .

So how should the exercise professionals that are listening to this think about their role with regard to scope of practice ? Like , that seems like a really important place to start .

Like they're all hearing these things and you know the lines are sometimes blurry in terms of what you should say , shouldn't say , but how , how would you advise exercise professionals about scope of practice with regard to dealing with . You know some of the maybe the the mental and psychological concerns people bring to that .

Understand when it's time to refer that client to a mental health professional , to actually give a diagnosis of depression , generalized anxiety disorder , bipolar disorder , schizophrenia , all those things .

But understanding that just because you don't have that knowledge , education , experience , it doesn't mean that you can't be a listening , you know , provide a time and space for a client to express their thoughts and concerns . But understanding that I'm listening and I'm here to support you from a training perspective , if that's what they've turned to you for .

But recognizing that you may not have the expertise , the education , experience to actually give a diagnosis and to not try that . Forming relationships , maybe strategically , with a mental health professional , so that if you are working with a client you may recognize that what the client is sharing with you exceeds .

You know where your your education , experience and expertise . But it doesn't mean that you like refer the client out and that you don't . But you can work in partnership or in collaboration uh , with someone excited .

You know , quite honestly , we all , we all are part of a team and we're trying to cater to the whole individual , and what's the best way to do that ?

I want to keep drilling down a little bit more on a couple of things you said because I think it's helpful Now , kind of speaking more to all right , what we can do as exercise professionals within our scope of practice . I do want to get to some of your thoughts on behavior change in a second , but where I want to start is being that listening ear .

As you mentioned , I think a lot of exercise professionals are trained I know this is how I felt I was trained early in my career is that you're the expert , you're doing all the talking , you're prescribing the program and you're sort of giving it to the person , and I think we do a great job of telling .

As exercise professionals , I think we do not as good of a job as listening . So talk a little bit about the importance of being that listening ear and maybe even some techniques or tactics that you have for being a good listener .

Am I able to paraphrase what they've said to confirm that I've actually listened to what they said ? Am I asking them questions and giving them the opportunity to answer those questions ? And then also , I would say , is recognizing that part of listening is also recognizing when is the appropriate time to listen .

So , as a trainer , like oftentimes I would recognize , like in the middle of a workout session , that a client may want to talk , but we're doing , we're not in the middle of , you know , we're at number eight repetitions of a set of 15 . Few things .

And recognizing like well , this is not really set up for appropriate conversation , like it's not even the appropriate space or time to have that conversation . And so I would say , recognizing that is a significant thing , recognizing when is a good time to talk .

So maybe , while the client's warming up , you may give them the opportunity to talk , and then let's say let's you know , maybe let's shorten this workout and maybe and let's you know give you the opportunity to share what you're talking about so that I can really listen . Does that make sense ?

And it's nearly impossible to actively listen when you're having to divide your attention between the technical parts of your job and actually listening .

You've no doubt incorporated a lot of the psychology principles of behavior change into your practice , and so I'd like you to give some best practices to our audience that are within their scope of practice to think about with regard to encouraging sustainable behavior change when it relates to the lifestyle behavior of exercise .

So , for instance , if you're working with a client and they come in and you recognize that they're like , really , really tired , some of the questions you could ask is like , well , how did you sleep last night ? And that actually opens the door for a very wonderful conversation about sleep hygiene .

And you don't have to be a licensed professional mental health professional to talk to someone to give them some key strategies as to what's the best way to make sure , before your scheduled workout , that you're going to have a good night of sleep so you can have a good workout . So what does that look like in having that kind of conversation ?

And then , when you wake up in the morning , what is your typical routine for ? When you wake up , we talk about the routine for going to sleep . We rarely talk about the routine that's necessary to have a good and healthy day . So how do you wake up ?

Do you keep hitting snooze and lay in the bed for an extra 45 minutes , then rush out the door and then you're rushing to everything you have to do that day because you didn't get up ? Did you then not eat because you woke up late , you know ?

So , again , that's the conversation that a trainer or any medical professional that may not be a mental health professional can have with their client . And then also , what are the things that you can do from a proactive standpoint throughout the day that's going to support what it is that you're trying to achieve from a health perspective ?

You know , are you overbooking yourself , are you overscheduling yourself ? And then are you coming to your workout stressed and overwhelmed because you had this long to-do list , but because you were so stressed and overwhelmed and you didn't organize your task appropriately , you didn't get anything done .

So you're kind of here at this workout , but you're not really , and you're stressed and overwhelmed , and so what I basically did was I just kind of gave an idea of how you could , as a wellness professional , if you're an exercise physiologist and you're working with clients , I'm wondering if you're a chiropractor , all those different things that we're doing with

clients , those are things that everyone needs , every client as well as the wellness professional .

We don't need any more like white papers to tell us that , but it only works when you do it . And we know that adherence and compliance of clients can be quite a challenge , right ? Everyone starts out with great intentions , but sometimes it's difficult to get them to adhere over the long term .

From all your experience as both a mental health professional and as an exercise professional , how do you approach adherence for clients and how do you help them maybe develop that intrinsic motivation to keep going , so you don't always have to use the carrot and the sticks to keep them showing up for sessions ?

Right exercise professional , wellness professional is perfectly positioned to help a client understand exercise . You know from an exercise , you know understanding , you know what do you do for muscular endurance , muscular strength , cardiovascular efficiency , balance , flexibility , all those things .

But you know what is your schedule and does your schedule support your goals , your exercise goals and the things that you're trying to achieve . So really I would say having those good conversations kind of you know , using your listening skills to understand .

You know what are the actual demands on that person's life , what are their responsibilities , what are the roles , the many roles that they have in their life that may make it very difficult to exercise . Because you know as much as you can wave the carrot but and tell them what they can achieve .

But if it's really unrealistic because of their schedule , um then you as a professional , it would be to the benefit of you as well as the client to help them really understand well , what is it that we can actually do and how can I help you actually do it ? With all that in mind , does that make sense ?

I think , at least in my experience , and I bet in a lot of people who's listening experience most people have a very unrealistic expectation of what they can get out of an exercise program , and I think you know we have social media and the fit fluencers largely to thank for this .

I mean , people think they can , you know , work out for two hours a week and , you know , look like , you know , a professional athlete or a professional model , but yet the prevailing culture that's out there kind of gets people to think that way .

So help me understand how you go about setting those realistic expectations for people that are evidence-based and based on their lifestyle in a world that sends very different signals through social media , Because that's a hard thing to navigate .

Does your schedule really allow it ? And so one of the things that we have to do is we have to look at your schedule and also understand , when it comes to exercise , when are you wanting to exercise and for how long , and does your schedule allow you to do that Right days a week ?

But you which it may mean based on the schedule and based on the role that you serve at home as well as in your professional life that you're going to have to be at the gym at five o'clock in the morning , like , realistically , if you want to exercise five days a week .

Now , if you're saying , okay , I don't want to exercise five days a week , but I can maybe do some small short , you know workouts in the middle during lunch . Okay , what does that look like ? You know where is that ? Is that at your office ? Are you able to leave and come to a location , or do you have to do a workout in your office ?

You need to find like-minded individuals that are willing to go on that crusade with you , and that's exactly what I found at the MRF Institute . The team over at the MRF Institute creates educational content for fitness and wellness professionals who are serious about becoming a part of our healthcare continuum .

Getting on the healthcare continuum is all about leveling up our skills to be looked at as that valued resource provider . The wellness paradox is certainly an avenue for you to do that , but we need many different levers to pull if we're going to get there , and the MRF Institute is definitely one of those levers .

You can go to their website , mrfinstituteorg , to find all kinds of great , informative , free , informational content and if you choose to engage with any of their paid content , they've created a coupon code specifically for Wellness Paradox listeners .

You can enter in WP2022 , that's WP , and then the number 2022 to the website at checkout to receive a 15% discount on your purchase . I highly recommend you go check out mrfinstituteorg . Now back to today's episode .

Yeah , and I'm so glad that you're bringing up this point because I think so often as exercise professionals , we think , okay , well , the ACSM guidelines say you do three days a week of this and you do three days a week of that .

We think , think in terms of these kind of you know , rigid guidelines without actually thinking about , okay , what can this person actually fit in their life ?

I often like to say you know , I want to start with what somebody can do , not with what they actually want to accomplish , because if we don't figure out what they can do , you know what they want to accomplish is actually , you know , quite irrelevant . And it seems so fundamental to be thinking like this is not an earth shattering thought .

Like , you know , can you fit this in your life ?

But it's so interesting how , as exercise professionals , we go from an intake appointment to an assessment , to a prescription and we forget the step of okay , well , can you actually do this sustainably , like I think anyone and you probably experienced this can sustain something for a week , but obviously that's not going to give you the outcomes that you need long-term

. So I think the level setting that you're talking about around what someone's lifestyle actually allows for is such an important point and I don't think it happens enough .

And they get very frustrated because , like for me , like I was an athlete coming out of college and I used to go on you know , seven mile runs and then I could go to the gym and work out , and then when my kids were little , I , you know , I had my friend's mom that used to could come over to the house and I could go to the gym and then I was

training . So I was in the , you know , in the gym . That shifted and changed . You know , now I run an organization , I'm very , very busy , and so that's when I can do my workout .

And where I can do my workout , you know , varies depending on what I have to do within that day , what I have to do over the week , what I'm trying to do within that month or that quarter . So I have to keep that in mind .

The same applies to clients you know , understanding that just because you were a you know , a major football player or a great track athlete or a great volleyball player in college and you were able to dedicate , you know , all these hours in the gym and then you know you could run and lift and all this and you may not be able to do that .

So you know , you talked about being realistic and all this and you may not be able to do that .

You sort of kind of beat yourself up a little bit over that and you feel guilty about it , but the objective reality is that , yeah , you've got kids , you've got work , you have other obligations , like it's not we're not all 20 years old anymore , but I actually think that really can deflate , you know , that intrinsic motivation to a certain degree , because if you

set yourself up to achieve what is an unachievable standard , you're just going to spend more time beating yourself up than you are being productive .

It's not about what you look like , it's about how healthy you are and , yeah , about what you look like , it's about how healthy you are and , yeah , and what are the things that you need to do each and every day that are going to ensure that you're healthy ?

Um , most importantly , because you and I , michael , know , we know that someone can starve themselves and make themselves look real fit you know , quote unquote . So you know kind of , they think that they are um , but and then you can also look .

You know muscle bound , look shredded and have high cholesterol , clogged arteries , you know high blood pressure and all of that . So really , what is it that is necessary from to be healthy and understanding that it may not be that athletic body that you had in college , or maybe you were a pro professional athlete , but it doesn't have to be to be healthy .

But I think what you're talking about is actually almost an imperative for industry survival because guess what ? Now there actually is a pill that can help you . Well , a shot , I guess . More specifically , that can help people lose weight .

So if we hang our hat as an industry on just being there to help somebody lose weight and look better , big Pharma has us beat every day of the week and twice on Sunday . So I think shifting that belief that moving and exercise is for aesthetics to moving and exercise is for health , I think that's so important .

But I also think it's hard because for years that association has been so tight . How do you go about approaching that conversation with people to kind of shift their paradigm away from the scale and towards what they can do ?

Of course , I'm 13 and that's what I thought .

I saw , um , but she , she and she died shortly afterwards , and so for years I used to actually speak on behalf of the american heart association about the importance of knowing your numbers , because , unfortunately , there is that assumption that because you're thin , that you're fit and like , yeah , like , right now there's a pill that allows you to lose weight and

to you know and to achieve something that was unattainable for a lot of people . But I would still say no , but are you getting in your fruits and vegetables ? Are you getting in ? You getting in your healthy fats ?

Are you getting in all the essential nutrients that you need to function properly but also that are going to decrease the likelihood that you're going to get a chronic disease but also increase the likelihood that the life that you live now you're going to be able to do so in a healthier way , and so I do .

I am concerned about that because I don't know when people are taking the pill , you know , are they still exercising , are they still eating well , are they still mindful of their mental state and making sure that they are really healthy ? Because now you look then and you may have lost the weight , but are you really healthy ?

That's a tragic story but it speaks to especially in women and I know if you I've done work with the American Heart Association as well you know their work around awareness of cardiovascular disease risk in women is so important because you know it's the often said phrase that you know the first symptom of cardiovascular disease in a woman is normally a heart attack

or a stroke , because it just goes undetected for so long . And I think it is hopefully now , as broadly as a society , we're coming to the realization that , yes , your fitness is more than just about the way you look in the mirror and kind of building on that .

Before we get to our final couple of questions here , since this is kind of right in your wheelhouse from a mental health perspective , just really quickly , because I don't think we could talk about this enough speak to the mental health benefits of exercise .

The more research I read on the mental health benefits of exercise , the more I might read on the mental health benefits of exercise , the more I might even be convinced that those are more powerful than the physical health benefits of exercise .

So just talk a little bit about your experience using exercise with people who do suffer from mental illness and how it helps .

And great , if you can go for a nice long walk or start to do an exercise routine . It's going to release those feel-good hormones , it's going to help you from a neurological perspective , it's going to increase your cognitive function , it's going to provide you with mental clarity .

So , if you're feeling overwhelmed because you're not able to complete the tasks that are associated with your work , if you're trying to do things at home and you find that you're struggling and feeling overwhelmed , if return to your responsibilities , you will be in a better position mentally and physically to do whatever it was that you were struggling with .

I would say also , too , like exercise saved my life , because it was a significant part of my healing process . It helped me through the grieving process , it helped me actually start the healing process and it helped me recognize , when I was feeling really overwhelmed in grief , that when I would go for a run .

It allowed me to center myself and get myself in a stronger mental space , so I was better able to deal with that grief . One of the things that I say is you're better able to move from a stronger and stable position . In fact , you'll appreciate this , michael .

We know in training , in order to exert force in any directions frontal , sagittal , transverse you need to be stable , and I always say exercise stabilizes you .

And from that stronger , more stable place you're able to make more decisions , you're able to be more effective in completing your tasks , you're able to be a better mother , a better father , a better sister , a better daughter , a brother .

You know all of those things if you're healthier , and so I actually don't think you can separate the two , because if you're exercising but then you're overwhelmed and stressed all the time , then what's the point of that Same thing , even if you're working with a mental health professional to address grief because you yourself have lost a significant loved one , but

then you're eating crap and you're not exercising , you know how good is that . So I really think you have to keep them integrated .

And , yeah , I appreciate you sharing all that because I think you know , as a mental health professional , you're on the front line of dealing with people that are in some very , very challenging situations and the fact that you have this diverse background that blends both exercise as well as therapy skills , I think that provides you a really unique perspective and I

would hope that the exercise professionals that are listening realize that it can be that perspective shift for people that , hey , this is , to your point , a way that you make everything more stable as the foundation that you can do other things in life off of .

So such good points , angela , before we bring this to a close , where can people go if they want to find out more about you and all the great work you're doing ?

I'm on social media on Instagram , facebook and LinkedIn . Again , empowered by Angela on all those platforms will help you find me Awesome .

So , angela , as we're bringing this to a close , I'm going to end the podcast on the question . I always end the podcast on , and I really enjoy asking this question to people who are also other types of health care providers .

You're the unique health care provider that is both an exercise professional and a health care provider , so I think you'll have a really unique perspective on this .

But if you can give our audience one piece of advice to close off the gap that I call the wellness paradox , and that's the trust , interaction and communication gap that exists between exercise professionals and the medical community , what would be your one piece of advice to our audience to close off that gap ?

And I would say understand that we all are trying to meet the needs of our clients and you can't be an expert in everything and understanding that the best way you can serve a client is to meet all their needs , and understand that meeting all their needs doesn't solely rely on , it's not solely your responsibility In fact you can't and so forming those strategic

relationships and having those partnerships already established so that you're able to , you know , turn to the right people and refer your clients to the right people , I think that's the best thing you can do .

Forward slash episode 133 . Please be on the lookout for our next episode when it drops in two weeks , and don't forget to subscribe through your favorite podcast platform . Until we chat again next , please be well .