Essential Marketing and Client Retention Strategies with Oscar Smith

This paradox , as I view it , is the trust , interaction and communication gap that exists between fitness professionals and our medical community . This podcast is all about closing off that gap by disseminating the latest , most evidence-based and most engaging information in the health sciences , and to do that , in episode 127 , we're joined by Oscar Smith .

Oscar's been in the industry for decades and he owns a personal training studio in New York , and he's had a long history of building a strong business based upon a great marketing paradigm , and that's what we're going to dive into in this podcast .

One of the reasons I love to have guests like Oscar on the podcast is because he is in the trenches , on the front line , day in , day out , building his business , growing his business , sustaining his business , and so this is going to be one of those business conversations that we don't have enough on the podcast , and we're specifically going to be one of those

business conversations that we don't have enough on the podcast , and we're specifically going to base this conversation around marketing , and the common theme you're going to hear Oscar talk about is the need to network and be out there talking about your business , using your words out of your mouth and , more broadly , word of mouth , to grow your business .

So I think this is a very pointed conversation about a marketing tactic that is , I think , undervalued and underutilized to a great degree . Any information we'd like to share with you in today's episode can be found on the show notes page that's been going to wellnessparadoxpodcom forward slash episode 127 . Please enjoy this conversation with Oscar Smith Today .

We're delighted to be joined by Oscar Smith . Oscar , thank you so much for joining us .

long . So I'm always excited to dive into these topics with entrepreneurs that have actually made their way in the space . But before we dive into it , why don't you just tell us a little bit more about your background to provide some context for our discussion ?

Because , as my professor used to say , you're not the kind of guy who wants to sit and read for like four or five hours . I'm like , no , yeah , I'm not .

Um , but you know , with that everyone , you kind of follow a path and things that you want to do , and then you have to kind of adjust the things that you think are what you want and then what real reality is , you know , and that was the whole thing with me and just studying .

I always say you can never get enough education and what I did was taking my athletic background and saying , all right , how can I make money doing that ? What can I do ? And I used to work at a gym as being the nighttime fitness staff guy and do my homework and I get a free gym membership . And then someone asked me how I got started .

They saw that I was in great shape . I was actually training for the 88 Olympics in Seoul , korea . And you know I was a gymnast , an ex-football player , d-back , you know a swimmer , track and field guy . So he just said , can I just follow what you do ?

And I'm like , what I'm like , you know , back then you were like no-transcript more and I was learning from , uh , this mass . You know this trainer I hate that title , they call him master but he was the top trainer , uh , frank hunter , and he was just basically out here in long island in my old school , hofstra , where I got my masters from .

He , the jets organization or football team , had their own camp there in the spring and summer basically , and it was a fantastic facility . So I basically just piggybacked him and just learned as much time as I can , volunteering whatever to learn from him . And then getting to meet pro athletes . I'm like , wow , this is really good .

And he was funny because he was like those guys are like a bunch of babies . But that's what started my whole thrill . You know my basically love of physical exercise with the science behind it . And then meeting like , wow , you can make really good money of that .

And that was all thing where every trainer was on like a sports team , like this sports psychologist and stuff like that , and then doctors and things like that , and you get with an organization . And at one point that was like my goal , you know , I thought , and then I kind of changed that around because that was really hard .

So that's how I got started in the whole phys ed field .

You know as it got started . So tell everyone about your business . You know OD Studio . Why did you start it Like ? How did this evolve ? Give us some insight there .

And I said , okay , I mean make extra money being a trainer , so I want to work in for someone . And that person kind of didn't really see the growth , that potential that he had for this gym and the area he was in . So he said something I guess he shouldn't have said to me he's well , if you think you know so much , open your own gym .

Six months later I did and I opened od . It was called odiesel at that time because all the lifeguards I would lifeguard in the summer and city of long beach , where originally I was from , and they used to call me diesel because I was one of the bigger lifeguards and I was like this ex-football player gymnast .

I wasn't't like a fish , as all the guys would call lengthy swimmers . So that's what they used to call me O'Diesel and my nickname is O-Man and that's where the O-Diesel came from and the O-D studio . So I started in 2003 , in December , and just then . Since then it just grew . I worded them out .

I had celebrities coming in , pro athletes reaching out to me , models , a-list actors , because that was the neighborhood for it . I love what one of them said to me and the majority of them said the same thing . I can't go to the gym without someone taking my photo , because camera phones just started to come out then .

Basically , people bothered you when you worked out and that was the funniest thing that tom brady would go to me . Dude , I can't go anywhere about someone saying I suck or this or that , whatever it's like . I need somewhere , plus also someone who knows what they're doing yeah that was a big thing .

So that's how it all just started and just by word of mouth it just grew , grew and grew and , like of any business , you peak and then you go down , and then you peak again , then you go back down . You want to keep it on a mainstream .

So I always explain to everyone when you start a business , yes , you have to understand that it's a 24 , seven days a week job and if you cannot commit to it , it costs me a relationship . It's sleepless nights . You have all the animosity . It's going to be anxiety that comes with it . Then you , you have all the animosity .

It's gonna be anxiety that comes with it . Then you get angry because the animosity comes in , because you're like why is this guy doing so ? Well , and I'm not . So it's like two pizza shops across the street from each other . What's best about that one , that one and manhattan ? There's literally a gym on every corner so , yeah , what ?

I mean , you know , especially being in business for as long as you have , I mean , this is an industry that is highly competitive , particularly as we got into the 2010s and all the boutique franchise businesses started to proliferate around the country and , yes , you were in a highly , highly competitive market there .

So I'm sure there's a lot of lessons that we can take from the growth and sustainability of your business . I think one thing I do want to point out for our audience that you said that's really important is that it is a 24-7 thing . That doesn't mean you're working 24-7 , but that means you need to be available 24-7 if something goes wrong .

So I think that's an important reality to put out there for people .

But we're going to focus this conversation around marketing primarily , and there's so much noise in the fitness space right now and as a small independent studio or business , it's probably safe to assume you don't have the marketing budget that Planet Fitness or Orange Theory has , so I'm sure you've got to be very creative about marketing .

So talk about , broadly speaking , how you've approached marketing over the years in your business .

And I told everyone when I first started . I took my flyers , I went up the block to the corner and I would just go and introduce myself and give people my flyers . That's how it first starts . It's like no one's going to describe your business better than you and that's the whole thing .

Like when you have an elevator pitch , you got 20 seconds to get someone's attention . Same thing when you're out . You got to get used to rejection . People know I'm not interested in whatever it is , but also you don't want to be a used car salesman and bother people to death . You're just like leave me alone . So you got to know when to stop and move on .

That's the biggest problem that people don't understand . You can't keep kicking a dead horse . As I say , all the time . You got to know what works and what doesn't . So when I started , the first thing that worked was me actually introducing and meeting people .

Then I walked around the neighborhood , met the other business owners and just introduced myself to this staff and to everyone else , and then also the go and your local coffee place hey , come as my guest , Come in the doorman of all the buildings Because , remember , you want people who are going to talk about you to other people .

And the biggest thing with me was all referrals . That was the biggest thing I explained . In marketing . You ask your clients , Well , you get one client . That person can easily give you three to five other clients from that one person . But you always have to be on point , honest and as well , not too much of being a pain in the butt .

So and that's something when you start marketing ads they used to work , you know . They used to have the thing about , like , there was the Village Voice and I remember I did an ad for that and it didn't really bring me anything . I did get some weirdos , some guy who wanted to work out being naked .

I got another one who actually literally called me and was like , can you beat me up ? I want to get in this gang . I mean like just stupid things like that . But you got to take it for like okay , well , at least someone's reading my ad right , right right and you know it's's .

It's that core thing of I always say flyers and yourself , just going and meeting people is the best marketing you can do and it's like a guerrilla marketing technique . They have all the mailing lists , email stuff like that and you've got to quickly go . What's the difference between you and that other gym ?

And that's what people are going to ask you like , hey , oscar , what's the difference between your gym and equinox or crunch ? You know , and they're like you got to be able to go . I'm there all the time . I'm there to take care , I clean it , I take care of everything , I oversee everything .

You know and that's the key thing of you business is that you have to know your business inside and out .

Talk a little bit more about the referral piece because I mean this is such a big element in small fitness businesses , that referral because it's a qualified lead . I mean you made the point a second ago .

You put something out through social media or through the local publication and you get some weird people that call in or come in and at the very least they're not qualified and they waste your time . In some cases Referrals are typically not that case . How do you structure your referral program ?

Do you actually have a formal referral program or is it a little bit more organic ? I know businesses tend to do this differently .

You have to know who your clientele are and there's nothing wrong with that . If you want the youtube video sensations and some sexy girl or guy , whatever it is yelling at you , boot camp instructor , god you know . God bless you if that's what you want .

So you have to right away first distinguish what makes you different than wasting your money and your time putting up social media , google ads and all that other stuff . So when it comes to referrals , I had a training staff and I would tell my staff you know you are the business .

So when you're on a train or you're there or whatever , you're out at a club , whatever , have your business card with you , talk , engage with people . That's going to get that person to go hey , I like that person , let me come back and work out with them . And then they again naturally organically tell other people and that's the whole thing .

Like I'm looking at you right now , you're in decent shape . I can see that already by the structure of your shoulders and your face and everything else like that , not some big fat guy behind a desk .

So it's nothing wrong with you approaching that person and say , hey , can I come and train at your gym or can you come as my guest ? And that's the whole thing which starts . And then , once you start that program , that one or two people that you spoke to maybe they won't come . Don't get discouraged , keep talking to people , keep going .

As the saying goes , if you ask 100 people , one of them are going to say yes , and that's the whole thing . When I told my trainers , you make more money training more people . That's simple as that . That's the simple thing of business . You're in business to make money . And I tell my trainers you're in business to make money , so you want to train people .

If you don't want to train people , then go work at Equinox Crunch , whatever it is , do the floor staff and I said I was floor staff when I started .

And then , once you start training people , you're like , oh wow , I'm making triple the amount of money doing something I like and hopefully engaging and developing a good relationship with that client or that person and that's what's always a nice thing when it comes to referrals or that person , and that's what's always a nice thing when it comes to referrals .

People are going to refer you if you do two things You're honest , professional , simple as that . But also the other thing I add to that you should know your background , what you're doing , and I hate trainers when they do this all the time .

They think they know everything , instead of just simply saying I'm not familiar with that , I will find out for you and I will answer that question . Let me go give me a day or two . Don't say you know everything , because there's nothing best like , I'm sure , with yourself .

When people say I know kinesiology , and you go bah , bah , bah , and they go bah , yeah , ah , you know that whole thing , you know . Don't pretend to be something you're not . And I tell people , doctor or nurse or something like that , refer them to a physician , you know , and that's very important .

So referrals are your number one source of always getting new clientele , especially in any business , especially restaurants or clubs or whatnot . People are going to come and talk . When people start talking about you . That's what you want .

I'm sure you've heard this over the years from your staff . How do you coach someone to embrace that fear and move past it ? I mean , we've already hit on some of these things already , but I'm just keen to hear you kind of dive into how you would advise people who are listening to get over that fear , that stigma of sales .

You already put it out there that hey , come to this gym , I train , come , I'll train you whatever it is , and if they're not taking the bait , move on to a different subject and that person is gone . But but still be professional about it . Here's my card . If you change your mind , let me know . And then you move on .

And that's the biggest thing where not everyone's going to be engaging you about what you do , you know . And then the worst is when you start talking too much physical stuff too , like , oh , your triceps , it was like that scene at a . What is that Night at the Rocks ? It was like , oh , your triceps are looking really bad .

Looking like , oh , we need to really talk about that . Like you know , you just sound like some tool . Yeah , you know . And sales are a big part and that's what you do as a trainer and anyone tells you different , you're in the wrong business .

It's simple as that , from memberships to private training , whatever it is , it's all sales and that's the whole thing where you have to figure out your not you know pitch , but also your way that you feel comfortable For a lot of people . They feel uncomfortable about that because , again , you don't want to sound like some car dealer .

Oh , this has got great tires , low mileage and the car looks like that of the Flintstone mobile , right . You know it's like you know , you also have to be confident in yourself to recognize key things , and I always say that a couple of key words right away .

People give you a response right away when they go oh I'm really interested , oh , that's quite great . You know , I never knew that . You know , once I do , they're looking for more information . When they say that kind of phrase , that's when you keep going . When they're like yeah , I used to work out , I don't work out anymore , and you ask them why ?

And if they basically give you some vague answer , that means they're not interested . You have to be able to do that kind of verbal judo , as I call it , going through what works , what doesn't work . If not , you're wasting your time .

You need to find like-minded individuals that are willing to go on that crusade with you , and that's exactly what I found at the MRF Institute . The team over at the MRF Institute creates educational content for fitness and wellness professionals who are serious about becoming a part of our healthcare continuum .

Getting on the healthcare continuum is all about leveling up our skills to be looked at as that valued resource provider . The wellness paradox is certainly an avenue for you to do that , but we need many different levers to pull if we're going to get there , and the MRF Institute is definitely one of those levers .

You can go to their website , mrfinstituteorg , to find all kinds of great , informative , free , informational content and if you choose to engage with any of their paid content , they've created a coupon code specifically for Wellness Paradox listeners .

You can enter in WP2022 , that's WP and then the number 2022 to the website at checkout to receive a 15% discount on your purchase . I highly recommend you go check out mrfinstituteorg . Now back to today's episode . Yeah , I think that is very important .

I mean , the used car sales person , I think is a really apt analogy , like somebody who's trying to sell somebody something even if they don't need it . That's what gives any industry a bad perception . You said something earlier that I want to go back to because I think it's important .

You talked about kind of knowing who your customer is , and I think you know businesses don't quite often think of this until they start to evolve a little bit .

Because when you first open your business , like anyone that can conceivably pay you some amount of money for what you do in your mind is your customer , but over time you start to really refine and define who that is . How have you thought about that in your business ?

Or maybe another way to ask that is like you know , how do you view who your customer is and who your customer isn't ?

So the answer is simple is that everyone can be your customer . It depends on how you treat them , but also they have to progress .

But you also have to know when they're like all right , this isn't for you , go do this , maybe try something else , something low impact , whatever , and then always come back when it comes also to like you know shaping people how you want them to be , as in like they have a goal fitness-wise . And I tell everyone who do you admire ?

Who do you , you know , aspire to be ? What do you admire ? Who do you , you know , aspire to be ? What do you want to do ? You know workout wise or training wise , like someone says , they're like I'm going to be the next michael jordan . You're like okay , do you understand what that takes ? You know ?

Do you understand the commitment , the time , not even a question of money . It's explained to everyone that time in the gym to be a bodybuilder or pro athlete . It's a lot of , lot of work , which you know , and that's the whole thing where some of them don't want to do that work .

And that's when you kind of put into different categories the customer base that you want and who you can retain and keep , and that's a big thing . What you talked about also , client retention how do you keep clients and people left me for whatever reason , they moved on or they couldn't afford it anymore . A lot of people you have to get used to that .

Also a lot of businesses where you're no longer financially able to afford that luxury lifestyle . And that's what training is . It's a luxury lifestyle , you know .

So you have to not take it personally , which I did at first , where I'm like , wow , this person just left me and I'm like , oh , my god , you let me , and some people leave you because it's just not affordable for them anymore or they feel they peaked , plateaued and they want to try something new , and that's another big thing .

You have to look for those signs when people go hey , I'm kind of tired of doing this workout , let's do something else , which I explain that to my trainers you have to completely always change and mix up the workout . It's not a routine . That client should not know what the next thing you're doing next . You know as simple as that .

And when it comes to picking your clientele , it's usually the people who you have a really good rapport with and also see the progression . So you're looking for that . Now you establish I have that person , that's my client , and then the next person that comes in who's like I'm not too confident , I'm not too sure I'm trying to make them a potential client .

You have to know it's 50-50 . They want to stay and be your client or they're like I'm just testing the waters out , I'm going to go here , I'm going to go there .

There was a great article in New York Times years ago about a woman who went to a gym for free and she said I spent the entire year going to different gyms in Manhattan for free and it was so funny because they would all give me a pass to go in and I was writing the article about it . I didn't tell them because their thing was to get my money .

They wanted me to sign up . That was the whole thing she said . But I duped them by telling them well , I'm interested and whatnot . And she said I literally went to every gym in Manhattan for free for a year and she's like I never had to pay a membership fee .

And I was like that and that kind of dawned when I read that article , like interesting that she used that you know philosophy , basically Jedi mind trick to everybody going I'm going to come in and sign up with you and it will give you me sessions for free and all this other stuff .

It's like when you have , when you go to a mall or outside restaurants and they always offer you like free , like hors d'oeuvres and stuff like that . It's the same concept and gyms do that . They offer free passes for everyone to come in , trying to get whatever clientele that can come in if they want . And it's knowing what works and what doesn't work .

And that is the big thing of the difference between boutique studios or training studios to membership gyms , because in my gym I can only do 20 clients , 20 people , that's it . And other gyms they want hundreds of thousands of members and memberships that pay every month .

With my gym , the simple thing is that it's what I said before everyone you train , you make money . When you don't train anyone , you're not making any money at all . So with that , you know , picking out your clientele , it's kind of it's like a 50-50 rule I go .

You know who is and who isn't , and then some people you know who are really great and athletic and great shape . You have to win them over because they're going to come across like a very arrogant I know it , all this and that . Then you have some people who have no idea or it's too tough for them .

Either one , they can just split and leave you at any time .

And then you got to remember people aren't going to give you that I'm sorry , I can't afford you or you're too far away . You know there's all these factors involved that you know there's not enough pretty girls in your gym or something like that .

You know you don't know all the answers because they're not giving you any feedback to like why didn't that person come back ? I trained them once for free and they never came back again or they just kind of blew me off . And that's another thing , what we discussed when do you stop calling people or having leads ?

You see all these Instagram stuff and people advertising . I can get you leads . I can do this and do that . That isn't also your core business . That guy living in Idaho is not going to be your remote guy forever , stuff like that .

And that's the whole thing where people like you discussed before know your clientele , know who you want as your clients and how do you keep them and it's one simple fact I learned was listen to them , listen to your clients . If they give you feedback , it's very important you take that , absorb , apply that feedback , think about it , what you need to do .

And that one client is going to turn to three , four clients , and that's how my business grew . It was just by one after another and being personal , just simple as that . And like one client said you know , I love the scent of lavender in my towels . I made sure I had the towels in lavender for them .

Another one's like oh , I like Gatorade , made sure I had Gatorade in there for them . You know , it's like simple things like that . Which people have that more personal , you know , experience with you . You're not like a manager and I tell them I'm the owner of the gym . Everything starts with me .

You tell me what you want , I'll make sure it happens , use it whatever it is , send it whatever Too cold , too hot , things like that . So it's very important that you are very personable with your clientele from day one . Simple as that .

I'm sure they'reudder to think what the current going rates for personal training are in New York nowadays . I'm sure they're far more than what they are here in Ann Arbor , michigan . You're probably one of the top markets in the country and that's a real cost for people , and so you do have to keep providing that value .

So I mean , oscar , this has been a really insightful conversation , primarily because you're in the trenches , on the front line , like living this every day , and I think that that's why I enjoy having guests like you on the podcast , because you're talking about things that work , and they have to work because if not , you can't keep your doors open .

So where can people go if they want to find out more about you and the work you're doing ?

And it's very important that , like we said , you know you're listening and being so-called experts on kinesiology or biomechanics or physical training or whatever our background is like . We're here to help you .

And it's funny about that because I never understood that years and years and years , that why the medical field and the physical fitness field doesn't just work together . Like you know , you need that more than anything else .

Where you go to a sports doctor , the sports doctor said you need a therapist I got one of those , but you need a trainer I have one of those for you too . You know that's important . A dietician it should be like a onestop shopping . When you go to an orthopedist or any kind of weight loss facility , when I'm like we have this entire network .

And I've seen the trend lately people over 50 now are really stepping up to take care , enhance their fitness and their well-being , and the same with the younger people . It was funny because my wife said it's like back in the 80s . It it was great bodies and spandex running around and that's the whole thing . People are now like you know what ?

I want to look good , I want to make sure , I want to feel good , I want to be healthy and that is a key thing of like . If you can't do it on your own , go get some help . Ask for a trainer , even if it's once a week week , and most trainers , to be honest with you , put them through that little bit of a test .

Don't go with the guy who's cheap . If he's cheap , he might not have any education . I was like what's the difference between me and some trainer who went and got a weekend certificate ? It was like back , you mentioned the 90s . The 90s was like be a bartender or become a trainer , you can do a weekend course . And it was like a joke .

I was like , okay , everybody were like as long as you have a good body , you can be 10 year trainer . And that's the biggest problem that trainers make . You cannot train people the way you train . You have to train them individually . That's very important and people don't understand that . And again , I emphasize , you're not a medical doctor .

Something pulls or this . Have send them to a professional , go get it checked out . You know . Don't be afraid to say that I don't know what that is . Let me send you to someone or contact someone or go get it checked out . This is nothing worse when you hurt someone and they turn around and they want to sue you . Yeah , or they hurt .

You hurt someone the worst and they tell everyone he hurt me . You're never going to get a client again , you know .

I view the wellness paradox being the trust , interaction and communication gap that exists between fitness professionals and the medical community . From your perspective , as someone who spent 20 , 30 , 40 years in our profession , how would you advise fitness professionals on how they could close off that gap with healthcare ? What's one piece of advice you can give them ?

You just started that where you can get three or four clients from the hospital alone as in clientele , and then having that extra referral system with them like , hey , bring your friend in , bring this person in , or the nurses staff or the orderlies , whoever it is the janitors remember people talk . The best kind of marketing is when someone's talking about you .

That's the best thing . As they say , there's no such thing as negative press . Right , press is press . Whatever you can get someone blogs or search about whatever you need , it comes up right away , which is important . Oh , also , I forgot , I have a book it's called natural strength , which is out on amazon . Oh , awesome , you get it .

It's an e uh , excuse me soft paperback and then also an ebook form , so it's called natural strength . You can download it and in there I put in all my workouts , from athletes to models , to agents , everything else like that , so you can see if you're up to par for that , plus plus some nutritional things and diets you can follow .

And remember , books are for you to absorb information from . So for the audience out there and everybody else out there . That book is for you . It's not about how great I am or that it's made for you to take and say , hey , it's one step towards me getting healthier , that's all Awesome .

Forward slash episode 127 . Please be on the lookout for our next episode when it drops in two weeks , and don't forget to subscribe through your favorite podcast platform . Until we chat again next , please be well .