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As. Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. By the way, if you've missed any of our fabulous hours, you should go and check out our podcast. Actually, also, I think the whole show now is one big giant podcast where you can just lap it all up. Go to the iHeart iHeart Radio app and look for the Weekend Collective and yes so anyway, but now it's time for the
parents squad. And I always get slightly. I always have a sense of optimism and good cheer with my with my guest because he's just an all around good guy and he he knows how to about me up with a not that he needs to, because he's the wonderful John Cowned. He's brought me a cup of tea already. John, Hello, how are you?
I'm doing well? Oh? Part a bit of a man cold, you know, have you. I've been in Flemmed and cart rated. That's a word I made up. I think it worked with it and carta rated as in guitar. Oh, I don't think that works as well as Inflemmed guitar. Yeah, yeah, it always amused me.
There was a country that sounded like that as well, Katar, And actually I used to pronounce k Qatar, and then my dad said he had some katar once and I was like, Oh, that's something else too, isn't he anyway? What is that just catar? It's just fat flame? Is it just a runny nose?
I think so.
I don't know bogies as children call them. Let's say, if we tied into a parent theme, Hello, welcome to the show. Nice to hey by, No, we wanted to talk about and ask you out there on O E one hundred and eighty ten eighty about the about the the puberty talk. I mean, we've had the birds and the bees talk. That's an old cliche talk about topic.
And it's funny as when you're a young parent, you think, you know, you think about having the talk that you got from your parents about the birds and the bees. But puberty is something which I thought, well, actually, to be honest, I've got two daughters, and I just I think my wife might have said to me if I joked about something one more time than she was going to give, I was going to give the talk but basically, I just like, honey, it's girls bits. I don't know
how to explain any of this. You know, you're a woman.
You know you do have an incredibly valuable role as your daughter's going to puberty.
Do ill?
Yeah, And look, I sometimes think the idea of the talk is somewhat overrated. Yes, I mean, the schools actually don't do a bad job of educating kids on a lot of these things, and and all that sort of thing. So what is the role of a parent in this hugely important including dads with their daughters and mums with their sons. And I'm happy to riff on that.
Because yes, I think I think i'd like.
You leaning forward into the microphone.
Actually, language didn't. I thought, oh, this is sounding good. But actually when I say I left it over to her. The one thing I have made a point of it's not about the talk, but it's about my reaction to anything that they want to share with me. And actually, surprisingly my daughters have no stigma about sharing way too much information. But I mean that you will talk about how to stop that. I think, Actually, funnily enough, I
think it's called puberty that stops it. Almost their teenage years it's like, I don't.
Tell there's huge changes as regards sometimes the flow of information and breaks dad's hearts hmm, terribly. So those add mums, I guess they go from being your best mate to someone who's not talking to you at all. And oh, yeah, that's a that's one that's it's interesting to unpack.
Yeah, But in terms of the actual mechanics of it, I mean, I don't know how many solo dads have to give that talk or whether they actually because you know, when it comes to periods and I'm thinking about girls, probably more for boys.
Well, you've got your daughters, so it's probably foremost.
Well, there's a bit more to manage for young young women, isn't there. Let's be honest, let's not for boys. One might argue it's a piece of cake in comparison. In fact, I think I would.
Argue that only for the rest of the whole of their lives.
Okay, But I mean, so, okay, what's the role of what's the role of dads in this if they're not going to give them mechanics chat.
Okay, let's assume that. Look, this is speaking of broad brush stroke.
Actually, by the way, this is broad of course it's broad because.
Because there's such a lot of individualism, different situations, different personalities and things. But in this broad brush stroke picture that I'm going to paint that you can pick holes and all over the place. A girl does look to her mom as a role model in these things, and so she is an ideal person to deliver certain bits of information and things because it's lived experience, and so she has a great deal of authority, and the girls
recognize that because she knows what she's talking about. But if if she's looking to her mum to find out how to be a woman, she's looking to her dad to find out what type of woman am I becoming? Now, this means that they are intensely sensitive to what people think of them as they're coming into puberty, their mates the opposite sex, but also dad's what is a dad's
opinion of their daughters? And they look to your inflection, your and look so And this is where dad sometimes get it so wrong, because they might be suddenly alarmed
by the way their daughter is dressing. They might be alarmed by the fact that their little girl wants to give them a hug, and now she's got bumps and they push her away, and because I was thinking, you know, because there's such strong taboos in our culture about inappropriate touching and things like this, And so they're now maturing, daughter comes for a cuddle or something and they sense dad being resistant or backing off or pushing them away,
and suddenly the most important man in their world is apparently rejecting them.
God into my mind of it.
And dads often change the way they respond to their girls as they're entering into puberty because there is just that less, be honest, a sexual dynamic there that wasn't there before, because you know, they're developing a feminine form, and I guess Dad's.
Been careful and because they want they do have to.
Be appropriate and everything, but you have to do it in a way that doesn't transmit a mixed the wrong message that girls could interpret as rejection and judgment and things. And the same when they get a bit cross about the way that their girls might be dressing or using makeup and things like this, and the all over stereotype of the dad going you're not going out dressed like this and that type of thing.
I think dads are a bit more. I feel that this generation of dads are a bit more like, oh well, actually make the argument I think young modern dads are.
They're probably even the more switched. I don't think actually you know why.
I think because they see, we just have so we're bombarded with so much more, so much more in terms of social media and imagery that we know what's coming. As I oppose, I think that dads who get the traditional dad from yeah, you know, just go back thirty forty years where and you know, I'm generalizing, but where dads went off to work and came home and they yeah, they they maybe didn't encounter their friend's peers until they met them when they were all going to a party
at the end of sixteen. So much and these days you'd have to be a complete dunce not to know a little bit about teenage culture, wouldn't you.
I think so, in fact, we're not. Teenage culture is probably similar in some of those same respects about partying and things when even when I a relative dinosaur went through and so uh. But that's just something to be conscious of you if you're thinking of this again. Broad stroke, The girl looks to her mum to see how to become a woman. She looks to a dad what type of woman am I becoming? Because that's one of their prime life goals during puberty is to find out who
am I? What am I capable of? And especially you know, how are people assessing me? They're working out? You know, am I attractive? Am I? You know? Do people want to hang out with me? Where do I fit in? All those sorts of things, and and so a dad's opinion is incredibly significant. So the thing to bear in mind is always, as you may not you know, exactly
understand what's going on in your girl's world. But if your attitude is always one of affection, acceptance, and you know, and warm admiration, you know, I.
Think my look, we all have different appress things. By the way, we're not meaning to overstate things either. It's just that it's a natural in terms of overly creepifying all that sort of stuff, but it is it's also about respecting. The funny thing is I think that the girls make those decisions in a way. So for instance, there came a time there would have been a time when you know, if in the shower, that if your kids are in the bath or shower, that when they're
tiny tots. You don't knock, You just go in because you know, it's only been a couple of years since you obathing them anyway, And I actually do. I've noticed that with one of my daughters. Now I sort of think, I think I might need to knock and see what she says. And then there is a change. It's like, don't come in yet, and I just respect that.
Look, that's the key word, that our word respect, and that's something you can model from early on. People talk about the talk psychosexual education starts right from babyhood where you where you're modeling a healthy respect for their body and your own appropriate language to discuss bodies. They don't need to know the full Latin terms. Most families have a sort of like a fairly friendly vocabulary to appropriate,
you know, so that they can talk about it. And and yeah, appropriate modesty, I mean it's not it's not kind to let your kids go off to kindergarten without knowing about appropriate pretenty first century modesty about what you can touch, what you look at, you know, how toileting is done, and things like that. That's all part of
the education from early on. But the thing is as moving through into puberty, it does change gear and they become very self conscious and we need to be And again that respect, by the way, mum's opinions of their sons, that counts for a lot too. I mean boys sometimes and possibly girls too. For a little while in early puberty, they're a bit like a building site. Something beautiful is being created there, but at the moment it's a bit
of a mess. You know, the hands and noses and ears grow proportionately faster, and you know, they sometimes don't move very elegantly. Sometimes their complexion breaks out and you know, if you if your son walks into the room and he's you know, his lank, greasy hair is hanging down over his pimple face and a mum goes, what a stud muff And some girl's going to be so lucky to get my book. You go, oh, mum and pretends he doesn't believe it. But honestly, they probably go.
Out and get your hair cut.
It comes to proos actually that I know, friendly admiration and respect and just they picked that up and it does something to their hearts.
But with the I mean with physical changes and stuff. To me, I think even the solo dads I've known have usually enlisted for daughters, have enlisted a trusted older female friend to explain it.
If you're not done not dumb.
Well, I guess it's just because yeah, I mean that seems to me it's like you're just bringing in an expert as opposed to daddy knows a bit about it. But really, I mean there's a whole lot of stuff that dad wouldn't necessarily know about. You'd have to be a very cool dad to be explained. You know exactly everything about tampons and all that sort of thing, mind you. I think that's the thing. Schools actually they're not too bad.
Schools actually do quite a lot on this stuff. Now, don't they know that?
I mean, it doesn't mean you abdicate your responsibility, but look, half the planet has got the experience of this, and so there's probably someone in your world that can help your girl. It's it's again, it's cruel to allow them to be coming into puberty without knowing how to be prepared and knowing what happens. You know, But but there's so much more. There's aspects of this. You know, a lot of teenagers crash in their relationships with each other,
with themselves, with their parents during the stage. They need to know things about how moods change as you get into puberty, about how you'll You've always felt anger and hilarity and things like that, but as you get into puberty it's like someone cranks the volume knob up on a lot of these things. And just just knowing that sometimes when they feel that those strong emotions they can have some insight into that can so help them navigate around this.
Hey, when did you When did you?
When did I go through puberty? I've never I've been avoiding it for the last sixty years. That wasn't your question?
Was it?
Now?
Actually funny on that theme about when do you ever? You know that it's funny the notion of when you grow up? And I know we've moved away a little bit from the puberty chapter, just as an observation for me, I don't know if there's really it's when do you actually think you actually do transit. I was used to think that as you're growing up, you know, when you
become an adult or when you're such and such. I actually never really felt there was any In fact, for most many partners of men would probably say, well, they never grow up, but I think it's sort of a bit of an artificial there's physical changes for sure, and you become able to make more decisions. But I don't know if you ever really if there's a magic moment when okay, probably when you have your own kids.
I think you have to grow up a bit. That's about it. Your parents' funeral that makes you feel very okay. Okay, no, look, no, no, no, That I means, look, there's lots of these little threshold moments, and you see that's a that's a big thing for boys, the idea of a threshold into maturity, and in most cultures, through most of history, it's usually being marked by some type of ceremony where the men of a community.
The yard lass.
You know, well, look, honestly, that's what it's become. That's not what it what beds should be where there is some idea of test and acceptance, and that is something which is hugely missing from our culture, and so it's been replaced by you know, seeing how fast a car will go, how far you can get with a girl,
how drunk you can get, or even the oe. They're all sort of like these threshold sort of experiences that prove to themselves in the world that they are a man now, and some of them are quite dumb, dangerous and unhealthy, when in fact it could be something better. So things that are quite healthy are things like graduations. Make a big fuss of them, you know, graduate getting a qualification at school or something like that. It used to be in my era wearing long pants. I know
that sounds dumb, but you went from wearing short pants. Look, you make it sound like I grew up in tom you know Tom Brown school days. But honestly, back then you wore short pants when you're a kid. But when you walk long pants you.
Were accept accept in the seventies with whatever those disgraceful walk shorts and long long socks and shoes that all male teachers seem to wear with a short sleeve shirt and a tie.
What the hell that was? Liberty? Mate? That was that was cool, high fashion liberty.
But actually, no, that's a really interesting question. What are the what are those moments where we're actually driving?
Getting a driving license is a huge thing for a lot of people. You know, that marks the difference between a kid and an adult.
Well, that is a making level of responsibility which you can have.
Because there's the aspect of test and then recognition and this is coming from the government.
Well, and not killing and the ability of driving a machine where you if you make a bad decision, you can kill yourself.
We're not noticearily talking about even the mechanics of it. I'm just talking the fact that you are now a licensed driver. We're talking about those things that delineate between being a little kid and being a man. And so we as a culture need to make more of a fuss of that, you know what, moving up a grade in sports.
And so I think you've reminded me of something because we they in America they have high school graduations and they make a really big deal. It's creeping in here. And I must say, when I was younger, I was like, what do you want to graduate from high school? It's just something that happens because you've changed, because you've got older.
And yet maybe there is a point to that, because I always thought that, you know, okay, graduations when you go off and do some other when you finally finish the dreaded years of school and you go off and do something else, then you mark that success. Although I never particularly cared about it because even graduation. I was like, oh, I've got my degree. What I want to go and stick a silly costume on and go walk parade down the street.
But that was just was a buzz, wasn't it? When I didn't do it?
No, I wasn't.
I didn't see the point. Oh, okay, is that weird? Probably well anyway where I carry it. But there's things like that. It seems to be the idea of being recognized in your in your leap forward into maturity, which seemed to matter. But particularly for boys, okay, And when they don't have that, what do they do? It's you know, they, as I say, cate their own fun and they can be not that. Yeah, they create their own proofs of manhood,
which is often around cars, drinking, sex, sometimes travel. But you know, the imitations of what I think is in the the real psychology of a boy becoming a man.
Actually, Mike's texted are saying that we grow up when we when we become aware of our mortality. Yeah, that is probably quite well. I think you referred to the death of your parents. I think that's no.
Yeah for me, being aware of your own mortality, but that of.
Those lessons you learn for it through bereavement. For me, I think probably it's funny. I mean, the death of your parents is a massive thing, but the first serious bereavement could be even of a beloved pet or your favorite uncle or something like that. And actually for me it was it was an uncle who was just he was charismatic and funny, and he used to love watching all of us play sport, and he was just he was just really involved, and one day he had a
surprise heart attack. Mom and dad just sort of dropped it on me. You can't there's only one way of telling something. I mean, you can't ease someone into it, like something's bad happened. They have a thought about how bad. No, it's worse than that. It's yeah, I don't know why.
I mean, yeah, I know there's lots of things that sort of mark off your progress into maturity, that awareness of death. You know, kids actually musually aware of it before then, and they can worry about it before the end. But the sad thing about a puberty often is that they think they bullet proof and don't think of it enough.
Possibly actually happen to take your cause on this. Was there a way that you marked your moment of growing up when you decided that you weren't just well, you weren't a child that you may be had moved on to a new stage of life, calling that would love to from you. On No. Eight hundred and eighty, teen eighty. My guest is John Cown. This is the Parents Squad on Timbibridge. Will be back in just a moment. It's twenty seven past five. News talks a.
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With news talks, it'd be this is the Parents Squad with the Tim beverage. John Cown's my guess we're talking about actually should we be making more of an effort to mark children's our children's progression from being children's to being adults.
What happened to you?
John? What do you?
What?
Did you get any particular mark.
Of mentioning that when I got ui, my dad gave me a creative beer. Now I look, I don't say that it was dB was was you know? But I felt like such a man now I think he was probably casting about But look, there's there's other things that that really helped people think like I am on the
way to becoming an adult. Brash shopping with girls. My wife talks very fondly about taking her daughter and she took a friend with her as well when they went to, Oh, what's what's the big department store in Queen Street that's closing down? And not Milmane Choice, but what is it?
And so I think Cooey And they had a specialist there that treated these these you know, young teenage girls like so well and all the fit things and everything like they had a ball and it made them feel, you know, and you know, it's just that aspect of you know, of I'm marking the progress towards adulthood in a healthy way.
Actually, I seem to remember getting when I got my first suit because I went to law school. Is actually that felt very grown up going, I think because I went and I couldn't afford my own suits. What a sad state of affairs. In fact, by the way, I should say, somebody's somebody's text me to sort of tell me off that, But they never reminded me. I didn't quite short change my parents. But this person said, Tim, you not celebrating your graduation as some silly march was
a bit. It was a bit off hand, wasn't I? And this person says, I'm paraphrasing, denied your parents of great pride, to be fair, When I got admitted to the bar, which is when they had the ceremony with the wigs and the gowns and stuff, that was my mum made a big deal of that, and that was my I got admitted at the bar in my hometown and with my friends and my old volleyball coach came along, and actually that was quite special.
Honestly it was possible. So I forgot I wouldn't. I bet you didn't think it was silly used. Probably I didn't think that was.
I thought I enjoyed that. I just think I didn't think, you know what I think with the university, I didn't think I'd really grown up yet. Probably. And then I got amid to the bar, and I thought, you're about to go and represent people who have been accused of crimes, and you are the difference between maybe an outcome much could be better or worse for them, depending on what sort of job you do.
I didn't go to my year group's graduation because i'd failed well, but I did pick up the socks. I did pick up my act and graduate the year after. Ye look for the parents. It is significant and lovely, and I've been to all my kids graduations and felt so proud of them. But you know, but I'd be delighted to know people's ideas.
Idea, Actually, here's another good one, somebody's. In fact, there's some really good suggestions on that. In fact, the text machine sort of just lit up all of a sudden. I reckon it was getting my first job, yes, year
twelve in school and started a building apprenticeship. And actually those are the actually, those are the moments where I think we're there's I guess as a society, we don't have a particular you know, dance we do, or particular ceremony, but we do have our own ways of doing, and I think that is that's a big.
One, marking, you know, beginning your first job. I mentioned the idea of the idea of test plus acceptance. He's past the test of being able to get the job, plus he's being accepted into the fellowship of these older people that he's now part of that's a huge thing
in the Jewish community. They have their bar mitzvahs and course and research has showing how they have a significant impact on their sense of maturity and self, you know, regardless of whatever religious implications it might have, it does have a sort of a versus you know, I am becoming an adult within church communities confirmations and baptisms and things, so that can have that place as.
Age to people get confirmed. I think I was confirmed. I mean, I'm not religious now, but I was confirmed it. I think I was twelve years old. But it was a boarding school thing where you got to you got to have the wine. I'm sorry, but that's that was the goal. I was like, I've got that communion wine.
I'm sure that's what the church and all about. And it can be any age, I think once you but the idea is that it is a something that you do when you were mature enough to own your own beliefs and things. So that's that can be one of these I am becoming an adult thing. So it can be very significant for some people. Some people get into it, you know, but yeah, what else.
Well, actually, one person's just talked about well, the changes since I joined the services at seventeen, I couldn't imagine how quickly you change, but says I wouldn't do it again, I wouldn't do it at seventeen today. Well, I guess, yeah, it's a friend of mine joined the army straight out of straight out of school. Well, look, I don't think that's but that's just that's getting a job.
It's like that, but it's also Yeah, the camaraderie of adults is unfortunately some of these But one of the things that has changed is that in most I mentioned the term of most cultures, of most ages, a person reaching adolescence would be then placed into the community of adults.
Now we keep them the in a community of same aged peers right through high school then right into university, and so they don't have the opportunity, apart from interacting with parents, relatives and teachers, of actually interacting on a regular basis with older people. How's that again, Well, they're
staying with their same aged friends. Well, you know, when most seven formers that in most ages would have been considered an adult out working with the men and women would are now still stuck with a bunch of other seventeen and eighteen year olds, and so their culture stays very much locked into that.
Actually, I think one of the ones we do have in New Zealand is the somebody's reminded me inadvert well not invertal. It's related that back in the days, in the fifties you had debutante balls, balls where you left school and you were presented to the world. But of course the school the school ball is a big one.
Because they're getting dressed up as adults. Yep, you know you're not going along in you.
In fact, that New Zealand's most generic sort of I'm not saying right a passage, but it.
Is well right the passages the right way. It's a right of you know, acknowledgment of and making a fuss of them and getting the photos taken and driving them there in a flash car. And you know.
I'll tell you what. It's a hell of a lot more involved these days compared to the mine. It was just like you found something that resembled a suit in a way, you went, it's the ball. Then there's the aft ball, and.
Oh my goodness, yeah yeah, so yeah, we shouldn't allow these things to get hijacked by things that cheap in it, you know, And I think sometimes the h well, you.
Know, the booze thing.
These girls especially go to such a lot of expensive their gowns and hairdoos and things like this, and then it just turns into another high school party afterwards. But the idea of having a flash ball, you know, which is very elegant.
Do you remember your school ball?
I didn't go.
I was too scared, too scared what to ask someone for a date. I think I already had.
Them, Like you're delving into my into my dark closet of adolescent failure here. No, I went off to the Photophotography Club Prizegiving that night. I want to try I want to try pod are actually look, I was desperately shy as an adolescent, and.
Yeah, yeah, it's now I think of it. I can't think of anything beyond the school board because so, I mean, of course, when you get the twenty first birthday party is the other one that somebody suggested, and I think the twenty first, well timenty first is still a thing. But to me, it feels like the right of passage does happen abit it.
I think that that one has been cheapened a little bit too, and that it used to be something that the family would throw for you, and you know, the twenty first and maybe all the uncles and aunts and everything like that there and you'd be sort of like admitted into adulthood with the key of a door and everything. Now it's just another big party for their mates that
the parents pay for. And so I think if you have got a twenty first coming up in your family, make sure that there is that acknowledgment from the older ones there. And there are a few speeches and things, because our young people are helped by these passages, these rights of passage.
Actually, somebody is recalling that back going back to our puberty chat. One of the text has said things were so hidden in the fifties and that when I was ten, my mother explained what might happen. And one of my it's just quite funny, one of my out of responses was does daddy know, like, well, you know, I mean in terms of does daddy know what what goes on?
Yeah, which I think is quite funny.
Hey john Son to so nice to with you chat. Hey, by the way, so you've got I'm gonna what time seven thirty seven thirty for Real Life.
And my guest tomorrow is movie producer Kevin Denham. He's had a strange change of career after a very long successful role as a movie producer. He's becoming a film chaplain and that he is working with the crews and producers and things, helping them with life. It's interesting chaplain.
Yeah is that well, we're going to find out if you's tune in of course for Real life and does is this a new thing that? Yeah?
I think so. I mean, look with media chaplains is about eight chaplains working within radio things. People are surprised that there's these people doing these things. But he's working within New Zealand's quite big movie and film industry. It sounds fascinating. Yeah, so interested if I do. I don't know much about it at all, will you excellent?
Well, well it's something for you to look forward to. Then, John, I am hey, and hey, thanks so much, and yes, don't forget to tune into Real Life tomorrow at seven thirty with John Cown and we'll be back to rap sport, well not really wrap sport. We're looking forward to the All Black Match. Will be joined by Jason Pine shortly, it's nineteen minutes to six News Talk seed bo.
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