You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB and.
Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. Of course that's very serene music from my producer Tire there it's lulled me into this false sense of security. I don't know why anyway, Welcome back to the show. My name is Tim Beverges, is a Weekend Collective and this is the Parents Squad. If you missed any of our previous hours at one we've radio show and a fun panel with Joe mccarell and Brad Olson, you can check out the podcast look
for The Weekend Collective on iHeartRadio. But right now, continuing the action, it is the Parents Squad. Of My guest is Sarah Chatwen, and I describe you best as well. For one, I get it Sarah rather than Sarah.
Thank you.
As a psycho psychologist, yes, I get muddled up with psychotherapists and psychologists. I think I wrote down the wrong thing.
Yeah. So we don't medicate. We just listen and talk. We set up some strategies. We talk people through little bits and bobs in their life. We also don't necessarily always talk about negative stuff. We talk about motivation plans and all of these things to create a nice, positive little space for people to exist in. So I'm a psychologist. There you go.
Fantastic. Hey, look and we're talking about we're talking about parenting, of course, because this is the parent squad and actually the question around authorities of parenting.
Yeah, and.
I guess you can go right from the whole tiger mum type of thing.
Right, So many types as helicopters. There's lawnmowers.
We've got let's it was, I know, what's the list cliches the helicopter parent.
There's the helicopter which has been replaced by the lawnmower. You know, that's the lawn mark. Well, that's even more high intensity in terms of you know, running right over your children with your ideas and your So I guess if we're talking parenting styles, we have the permissive parent that is very you know, almost overly flexible, with no rules.
In regulation the age of the careers.
That's right, we might have a few of those amongst the permissive parents. Then we have the authoritative that falls somewhere in the middle of you know, being quite flexible, favorit firm. Probably the parenting style that I think is
quite nice and works for a lot of families. And then you have the authoritarian who is you know, has a very fixed view of what children should do and what they should bring, and you know rules and regulations that are very inflexible, so you know there are a certain amount of parents that parent that way too.
I guess the broader question and what your calls on this is how did you decide your style of parenting? Was it something that just came naturally to you because you felt you were comfortable with the stance you were taking, Whether it would be to be the completely authoritative I haven't heard the lawn my parent. That's fantastic, But how did you make your decision? If you're listening, we'd love to hear from you on on what sort of parent you wanted to be or are you dying to know
what the optim should be? Because is I hesitate to think that there is an optimum way of parenting because.
We're all very different, all different.
We're all different, and your kids are different.
And there's no bible. I mean, if there was a parenting bible that you know, come down handed down through the generations, maybe we might have a bit of a plan but I guess part of the answer to that question for a lot of people will be that they parent similarly or differently to their parents. They've taken some of that role modeling and they've worked with it, and then they have read around, looked around, asked questions, been
and talk to people like myself, psychologists, counselors. But there are a lot of you know, areas and avenues and input sources for parenting styles are there.
I mean, does your parenting style? Does it depend on you or does it depend on your children, because certain children will react differently. We all know about kids have rebelled against the authoritative parents. And you know, if somebody has had a very strict lifestyle and the kids have been as soon as they could.
Leave, get free. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But then maybe there is a type of personality which is okay with an authoritative parent who wants a bit of certainty around things.
But that's the authoritarian parent, the realtori. Yeah, the authoritative is more flexorial and we're allowed association. I'm going to start calling you a helicopter dad soon. Just be careful. I know I'm having you on. No I think that you know, say we have three or four children and people say, oh.
You sorry, how many have you got?
I've got four? Four, I've got four, And I think that each one has required a slightly different parenting style because you know, there's the genetic makeup, there's experiences, they're all different. There are different too, which would change that's right. Yeah, And I think that you know how people say, oh, you know, I love all of my children exactly the same. I'm sure people do. I'm sure that there's equal amounts of love for each child. I do think though, parents
have different relationships with their children. Some children, you know, they feel that they're on the same page. Some children they feel that, you know, there's a bit of there's a bit of push, there's a bit of a rub, there's you know, some you know, you might say, oh, I'm a Leo and he's Leo with butt heads. So there's different personalities and each child has a different experience of you as a parent. So there's a lot of things that come into account.
Actually, I think yeah, because maybe it's more a case of just what bottom, you know, the authoritarian thing versus whatever parent you are, whether a helicopter parent or lawnmar I'm still trying to get my head around that.
I think that's a bit of a stream, isn't it.
It's but you do need to work out regardless what your bottom lines are, I guess because the parents who try to be too matey with their kids and.
Who don't set certain boundaries parameters. Yeah, I get it. Well, I don't know whether that ever ends well because it might look nice and feel nice at some times, but then you get to a point where as a parent, you have a responsibility, you have to care, you have to guide. You know, we parents are the architects of the destiny of their children. So there was there are those kind of components to a parent and to parenting, and that is why parents are called parents and not mates.
There are two different words, there are two different roles. So the notion of mateship with your children. I do think you should be friendly, and I do think there should be you know, love and and all of those you know, core values involved in the relationship. But at some point parents have to guide and it's from the get go. Really.
Yeah, it's interesting because I think I think they're using the word friends and mates with your it's just if you're looking. I think sometimes people use those words when they are looking to define their connection with their kids, and that they don't want to be the authoritarian. But I mean, if I was to think about it, I probably think that more of I want to be a companion to them as well. But that's different to being a friend. It's like someone who's along for the journey with them.
Well, I think it's more of a nurturing, guiding kind of a role, isn't it. If you're walking along the same companion type of thing.
You know you're there to support them when they need it, and you're also there to go oop. You know, why do you think that went wrong?
Because, say you have children in your twenties or thirties, You've got twenty or thirty more years of experience than your children, So you would probably not be a mate. You would be a guide. You would have some kind of direction in their life. You would be able to And I also do empower children in my practice. Empowered
parents in my practice because they know their children. So when you ask about parenting styles, I guess part of it is your knowledge of your child and your knowledge of what you think they need.
Well, okay, somebody comes to you, say if somebody is a lawnmower parent to find that one for me again, So.
Lawn mower is when the parent doesn't necessar necessarily hear their child. They don't listen to their child, they don't hear them. They just give orders and they zoom right over the top of their children's choice and all the rest of it. If I picked that up in a parent, I would say, hey, listen, you know you need to think about how you can allow your child to develop their own sense of self.
It also says that they run ahead of their kids and mow down any obstacle that their kids are going to experience.
That's all.
It's extream on top of the helicopters. Yes, yeah, here's a problem my daughter is going to encounter. I'm going to get rid of it so they don't have any obstacles, and so your kids never Well that's a resilience destroying thing, isn't it.
Well it is, But it is also not allowing that child to be them to establish their own identity, to look at themselves and think, hey, and figure out who they are. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. So lawn mow appearance go over the top, prevent those kind of things happening, which is, you know, a really nice thought, but it also impedes that growth process and that delineation of self that we all need.
A modern parents more. And look at the use of different terms may irritate you if you're listening, but I think it's quite useful just to defining roughly what we're talking about. And anyone knows what we think when we're talking about a helicopter parent who's always hovering trying, is somebody actually looked like, here's a text. Hi, guys, we're told by the end laws mainly that we are both helicopter parents and too soft and spoil our only child.
Should we care because honestly, it's not going to change.
Well, listen, I think anybody outside the parenting zone can say whatever the heck they want. At the end of the day, parents appearance and they will make the decisions. I mean, there are laws about that too, you know. You know that so often it's quite handy to listen a little bit. But in terms of taking things on board, you have to empower yourself as a parent and you know, know what the rules and regulations are around your parenting
style and go with it. And whatever. People will say, well, you know, pay a little bit of attention, but if it doesn't resonate for you, then that's ours.
Is helicopter parenting more common? Do you think? I mean, we didn't have a description for eight years ago. I never heard the expression till it's fifteen twenty years ago.
Do you know what I think? Sometimes these terms are you know, a bit fast and loose. I think people throw them at people if perhaps they experience a different parenting style from their own, and that can definitely be a generational thing, so you know, grandparents versus parents. So you've got to be a little bit careful about this terminology because people can say whatever they want. It doesn't
necessarily mean you fit into that category. But I do think there are a lot of parents out there that care, certainly, you know, in different areas, in different places. But I also think that you know, we see a fair amount of abuse and neglect with regard to children. We only have to read the newspapers to you know, to see
some horror stories about parenting. So helicopter parenting would probably not be my first port of qualifiers to brick back something I would say abuse and neglect, But you've got those terms again are throwing around, So we've got to be a bit careful, you know, how we define people's parenting styles.
Would love to have a calls for me if you if you'd like to join the show. I weight one hundred eighty ten eighty. Did you actually decide your own parenting style or did you just find Oops? I guess I'm one of these parents because you just recognize that that's what came easy to you. I guess Dave's like this text from Dave today on a wet day inside with my six year old son. I've been every bloody type of parent ha from Dave.
I'm your Dave Will. He's covering all his bases, inn isn't he?
Yeah, we'd love your cause. I eight one hundred and eighty ten and eighty text nine to nine two. That's the parent Squad. My guest is psychologist Sarah Chatwin, and we'll be back in just a moment. Because one of the reasons I've asked what type of parent you are? At some stage you've got to let your kids make a few more of their own decisions, whether you like it or not. But how do you stop teenagers from doing stupid stuff. I eight one hundred eighty T and eighty.
It is nineteen past five News Talks. He'd be welcome back to the show. This is the weekend left of the Parents Squad. I don't mind telling you. I just said to my producer, I said, who's this? This sounds familiar. Of course it's Madonna.
I knew who it was, but yes, thank you very much.
Good one, Sarah, well done, well done. Look I so did I. But you know, sometimes anyway, were talking about parenting style. Sarah Chapman is my guest, and quite a few texts on this, but are we're going to discuss also how you stop your teenager dumb things and also choosing your parenting style? Is it just something that comes naturally? One person says On the text, Steve says, I liked him and think think of myself as a corner man
and a boxing match for my son. They go out in life and fight the rounds, and in between rounds they come in and sit on the stool and the cornerman comes and gives them advice for the next round on parts of the fight they cannot see. I really quite like nice. I quite like that analogy.
I have to go and then come back. And I just watched Dana White's UFC documentary, which was an incredible so I'm kind of liking that fight analogy. However, I think that's of a certain age. So maybe he's talking teenagers because you do have to, you know, loosen the bonds and let them make their own decisions and choices. But I mean, as a parent, you can't just abdicate responsibility at you know, X age. You're a parent for your whole life and you're their parent for their whole life.
So the thing about the question around how do you stop teenagers from doing stupid things? I don't think you can really because it's just going to happen. It's you can you prepare them for the teenage years when you when they're younger. Really, if you've done no work with them for the first twelve years, you're in trouble. You're in deep poos.
Yeah, because as a psychologist, you would you would like to think that people, you know, form a relationship with children right from the get go so that the pathways of communication are open. And I've said this many times, those open pathways of communication so that children do not fear or regret or just don't come to you. They need to feel like they can come to you to chat in a way that's non judgmental or invasive, all confrontational.
And if you have set that structure up from the start, and also if you're feeding some really positive, proactive messages you know about some of those things that can cause concern during the teenage years, then they don't necessarily have to make many mistakes or really bad mistakes. I think everybody makes mistakes, right, That would be weird if we didn't. We don't want to make too many mistakes over and over again. That would be pretty silly as well. But
I think it's the messages. It's the communication. It's the pathways that you choose to take with your children that sets them up, you know, for a good, for good teenage years or for harrowing teenage years.
Yeah, because I'm not sure who said it, but I think it's a line from Ian Grant, who found The
Parenting Place. But there was think's one of my favorite parenting quotes because he was talking about when kids say, look, i'm a teenager dad, you know, but out yeah, and he the comment he made it was to do with the work you do earlier, he says, if you are present in your children's lives from an early age, said, by the time, it's about that investment earlier on, because by the time they're older, you have His expression is that it's quite a nice expression. He said, you have
earned the right to speak into their lives. And I think that that does emphasize how important it is to be present, yes, from day one, rather than waiting because.
A lot of available available. Yeah, I think psychologist Sarah chat One said that as opposed to in grant thank.
You very much, that is one of yours as well.
No, no, I'm sure it was ens He said, some lovely stuff and it's brilliant stuff. But I also think that there's a you know that availability today. Parents are very busy, they're working, they've got a lot on their plate. They also have children, and you do need to be accessible and available to children because they have questions and if they are not asking you questions, then they will be
doing stuff that you don't know about. If you are not communicating, if you are not having the conversations, if you are not allowing them to know your thoughts in and around subjects that are you know, sometimes hard topics, you know, difficult conversations to have with your children. If you're not doing that, then you may find that you're out of the loop, and you don't necessarily want to be out of the loop with your kids.
Is it more common Do you think that people are less available to their kids. It's easy to say, you know, how, we have this perception that because both parents are working that kids have parents have less time for their kids. But I alwayso think of the old family dynamic where there'd be one parent at home. Usually mum and dad would be out working and he wouldn't be home to look. In fact, people are often so I hardly saw my dad except on weekends.
But yes, except that there was the availability of one parent, and a lot of the research today, even though there's been a lot of research in the past that said, you know, we need two parents, we need these families and all the rest of it. Well, we love that, and that would be lovely, but not everybody has two parents. If you have one good parent and somebody who is available, whether it's a guardian or a parent or whatever, then
you have somebody that you can talk to. And now with all the mental health issues, the rise and anxiety levels and strets and depressive disorders that we see today coming through children. Right from the get go. We know that they need to talk, they need to communicate, they need continuity of care, and they need availability of people who fill those roles.
Why is that with anxiety? Because when you look at previous generations, previous generations have been sent through some horrendous stuff. Imagine being a teenager during World War two or something. And is it the social media aspect of things that causes.
Well, don't start me on that, TI. You know my position on social media. I think it social media. I like this analogy. Social media has come into our living rooms and sat down on our couch couches and snuggled up to us and really given us a false sense
of security. When you are talking about teenage girls who go on to Instagram for twenty to thirty minutes and feel three to four times worse about themselves after that, after viewing social media Instagram and Facebook, whatever the apps, you are talking about something that's very dangerous for children and adolescents.
Yes, okay, I think that was my division in a way, but it is. But it is all tired and with things in terms of how you change is because the question i'd are interially posed about how do you stop teenagers from doing stupid things because you're not going to be there along for the ride all the time.
No, absolutely not.
And so I mean there are certain things you would be terrified of your kids doing. So if they're going away off they've got their driver's license, and you want them to like, I don't want you to text while you're driving, and I don't want you to drink too much alcohol. I don't want you to be late at night on your own in a dangerous place and things. But how do you make sure what is the best way of ensuring that your kids heed your advice?
So there's no one hundred percent guarantees, right, There's no way that you can make or enforce those things because you're just not there. So it is all about messaging. It's all about the messages that you send your kids from the get go. And this is where parents need to think seriously about the task of parenting and really need to lean into it. If you find yourself in the position of being a parent, lean into it because you know these kids are around, hopefully for a very
long time for longer than we are, right. So it's about that messaging. It's about the boundaries, the parameters. It's about the culture that you create within your family. Because we're all different. We said that at the beginning of the show. We're all different. We have different values, we have different things that resonate for us and things that we don't like. So it's about that messaging. So if you don't want your kids to text and drive or look at apps and drive and drink and drive, then
you are messaging. Sending those messages softly a little.
Bit, you know, don't do it yourself for one.
Yeah, and that's the statement that I like. There was an ad campaign years ago that said if you want your kids to behave behave yourself. That's the one that resonates very loudly for me.
Yeah, it's a funny one I say. For instance, on the phones, I I use my phone for reading, for instance, and for research and news. So when I'm on my phone, I'm doing usually it's for work. Whereas my kids see me on my.
Phone, why don't you tell them what you're doing?
Well, I have made a point of saying.
That actually, So there you go, there's your messaging. You've already kicked in that messaging. Similarly, if I'm doing that and I've got my children around, I say, oh, hey, listen, let's talk about that in a minute. I'm just looking this up for work or whatever. I will message that that is what the phone is used for. And I will also, you know, from time to time question what they're
doing on their phones. I think that's a parental right, you know, so no, I think the messaging kicks and you probably don't even know that you're doing some of that, and that's just just naturally great parenting to.
Oh my god, I don't know. It's something that sometimes the throat well you have on you're on your phone, Dad, it's like, well, I'm you know, would you like to read the same articles I'm reading right now? Have all let me and read read this particular news.
Story, won't you? Again? Right?
The other question that I wanted to just dig into as well as because one of the news stories, that's the charter schools are back on the menu as well. Right, Yeah, I've never I mean, I guess we made it. We did make a choice about which school to send our kids to. Did you make a school choice or do you just go what's in our area. Way we go.
You do a little bit of that, and then if you don't have options that you like, you might make different choices. But then if you've got four children like me, if if you are boys and girls, or I had three boys and then a girl, so if yes, so then it must have been if one. I just they are adorable, they're cool. They're pretty cool. Not perfect, nobody is, but they're pretty cool. They're listening to Tim. So I've
got to be very diplomatic now. I think if you know, the big brother goes to the school, and then the next brother down wants to go, you end up, you know, with a bit of a flow in one direction. And then you have parents whose children are very very different and don't necessarily want or need to go to the same school as So there's a lot of dynamics, right, But charter schools, I think it's a lovely notion as long as you have really good people at the helm and a great crew.
Because I was just wondering how many New Zealanders really, actually, ever, really actively choose because we are zoned for schools as well.
Yeah, that's right, and.
There's it doesn't I never assume there is a particular choice, although my girls go to a Catholic school, and it was my wife who sort of drove that drove that decision. I guess we explored it and thought.
Yeah, that was the right choice for you.
And because I wasn't actually emotionally ready for it, because I didn't realize it would start year seven and I was thinking I had two years, and then suddenly it was like, we have to make a decision about schools. I was like, I'm not I'm not emotionally ready. Yeah, but I'm trying to work out how I actually I do remember roughly I made the decision because I met the principal and had.
And there was was awesome yeah yeah, and what did I just say about crew and person at the helm? So charter schools also, I don't think there's necessarily been a massive amount of conversation around it, so a lot of people may not know, you know, what that option looks like, but you know, and I don't know a lot about charter schools.
But well they're all different, yes, and then there will be some that will do a great job and there'll be ones that will be failures. Possibly, right, mind, it is not that our education system at the moment has been rocking and rolling for the past ten or twenty years ago.
No, No, I mean it's a bit hit and miss at the best of times, but I get it comes back down to the values that that school has, you know, the umbrella that they operate under, the person who is running the school, and how well they do that. And then of course, you know, parents getting to know their children and what they feel their children need. I don't know how many children out their parents would feel need charter schools or just need the schools that are offered in their area or beyond.
Yeah, okay, here's a text from rich which just plays into your favorite topic. By the way, if social media is so dangerous for our teens, then how do we get rid of it?
Yeah, well, we just can't. And I don't believe that we can get rid of it. I believe that we have to monitor it. I believe that perhaps we need to consider some really stringent checks and balances. I mean, you've got great people, you know, under that net safe umbrella who really navigate that relationship between youth and social media so beautifully. They have tips and bits and bobs
on their website that are so helpful. And you know there are other people, private people you know, such as myself, counselors, psychologists who can give parents tips as to you know, when to get involved and monitor this. But I'm every day I am surprised at how little parents know about what their children are actually viewing online.
I also wonder whether I think that parents are sometimes because every child is on it seems that everyone's on social media, at least from the acts. It's like that, although actually I don't think my girls have social media accounts, No they don't, But does you do feel this tidal wave that every kid has got it come a certain age,
has got a phone and all that. And I must say almost we were probably stricter than most, and maybe I've crumbled a little bit on that front, but only because I sort of think I don't want them to be hasn't got and they play that card pretty well. But we went met up with some friends on holiday who this blew me away, and I was so impressed with them. But they make their kids. The kids have to leave their phones at home when they go on holiday. They don't even take them with and I thought, God,
that's really that's really hardcore. But actually I also thought that's that's awesome.
Well, I mean, they've created that culture for their children and that's what they feel their children need, and that's the culture that they want to operate.
And we're talking teen just by the way, the youngest is probably thirteen and thirteen up to seventeen phones.
It's amazing left at home and the kids just do it. They respect their parents enough to follow the rules. That's great, and that's the culture that those people have created. And if that works for them, that is amazing. You will have listeners out there going, well, that's never going to happen. Well, you then have to look at why that kind of thing can't happen. Are your children slightly addicted to their social media or whatever? But those parents have put parameters,
checks and balances in place. They are parenting. They are not abdicating responsibility. They're guiding their kids through this, you know, that social media landscape and doing a jolly good jobs.
Ironically, the reason that a younger one got a phone earlier than their oldest sister is because we had our overseas holiday and we actually gave her a phone for safety and communication.
Because that's a great reason to do that.
You felt reasonable, So yeah, I think that's it.
But then again, you know your child and that was something that that resonated for you. That was a good parenting decision. When I'm listening to you say that, I'm thinking, well, that's absolutely valid. You're away overseas in cities and countries that these kids don't know if they get lost, You've got that means of communication. So there are different reasons and different decisions that parents are tasked with. I mean, it's not easy, is it.
Well, I'm considering next holiday we have, how do I do the rule that Dad's decided? Mum and Dad? Sorry? Should I say? I won't be hard to get my wife on side with that? It, I guess, But I must say I feel that it's going to be you.
But just do it. Just have the conversation and don't necessarily just land that conversation on your children. Build into it, build up to it. Use that family as an example of, you know, stuff that other families do that you quite like the idea of have the conversation.
What do you think? What does the psychology tell us in terms of what with social media? Later as late as possible, you know, because people can have messaging apps and they can message each other and say hi, and that seems fairly harmless to me. The stuff I've seen them my kid's phone, when it's just literally it hooks them in though. But the social media of the tiktoks and the Instagram and oh, I just sort of think the longer you can keep off that stuff, well.
I mean we are seeing kids who are just interacting so passively. They're not interacting, it's just passive consumption. So there's no outside time, there's no leaning into green space or and join the environment. In this beautiful country that we live in, there's so many things that have fallen by the wayside in favor of this of social media.
So I mean, I don't think that we can get rid of it, and you know, in terms of accessing it for information and there are huge benefits, but I also think that we have to have balance and a lot of families, a lot of children, and I guess parents are forgetting to encourage the other things that make up life, you know, face to face expression and conversation and outside time and you know time and the sun and animals and well see that play and all of that stuff ties.
Into the whole question we get to about parenting style, because I think that's when I think, with just the momentum that kids have too with parents, that I need to have this phone because of this reason that there is a time when obviously you do need to be that authoritative parent and say, well, actually guess what.
Just well, authoritative means that you are putting rules and regulations in place. There's a bandwidth, there's a flexibility with what you're doing in that parenting style, but you are actually saying, hey, guys, you know it's nine o'clock at night, there's not going to be any more social media. You need to get to bed soon. And also what happened to reading books? What happened to drawing? What happened to talking communicating with parents? I mean we're seeing a huge golf,
you know, dividing parents and children. There's not face to face stuff. I mean, you're having parents and children in the same house texting each other. Well, that's just lazy, that's just so passive. You're guilty.
But the reason I did it, no, this is because my daughter was like having a lazy moment, not because I wanted to catch her out because she's supposed to know, because she's supposed to put her phone on the kitchen bench when she gets home. And so I texted her on it or I've phoned her and she answered the phone.
I was like, the fact that you're answering this calls means call means it wow too, sneak sneak anyway, So if people want to catch up with the work you do, Sarah, what's the best way to get in touch?
Oh, look, dub dub dub dot mind workstock cod on z always happy to have a bit of a chat and just you know, make sure that people are on the right path. So yeah, keep it positive. That's we love. Keep staying positive the mind Works crew. We really like to keep people looking.
One of the biggest things you often have to do is because when people go to accounts, obviously they're usually it's because there's.
Something there's some questions. Yeah, absolutely, But you know, it's not necessarily about seeing that glass is half full. It's just about understanding, you know, what great gifts you have in life, because we all have them, we just need to find them. We need to dig a bit deep sometimes.
So Mindworks dot co dot Nz got it, Sarah, nice to see you again. You're gonna be watching the All Blacks tonight. You're dressed in black.
I know, I know it's my usual attire, but I will be. I have great faith in the new coach.
Excellent. Okay, Hey, we'll be back in just a moment to rap sport. It is eighteen and a half minutes to sex. This is News Talk s EDB.
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