You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks be.
And welcome back.
This is the Parents Quite on the Weekend Collective.
I'm Tim Beverage.
By the way, if you miss any of the previous hours, we had Calvin Davidson from Coal Logic just chatting about well, the upcoming o CR announcement changes are known home ownership rates revealed that by the census. But then probably the really interesting one is the government underwriting developers and whether that will make a difference to our housing stock. But you can check that out and also the panel with
Pete wolf Camp and Joe McCarroll. You can go to it wherever you your your podcast and look for the week look for the Weekend Collective and away you go. Actually, don't go to where I We just got to iHeartRadio. That's nice and easy for you. Any wait, now it's time for the Parents quae on. My guest is she's almost keetting the stage. We needs no introduction, but I do like to introduce my guests. She's a psychologist at Mind Works and her name is Sarah chap One.
Hello Sarah, how are you Tim?
Hi?
And can I just say to the listeners that you were having a wee dance to that intro?
Are they know that? Now?
I know?
And it was very cute, very sweet, lovely heartwarming.
In fact, let's not overplay that one. I moved a little bit.
It's just as sledge.
Isn't it? I think? Isn't it? Where our family? I don't know?
Anyway, Hello, now what we're going to talk about. We want your calls on know E one hundred and eighty ten eighty or text nine to nine two. Is the school holiday thing? And just the really simple question that I think a lot of parents go through is and a lot of parents work so that all of a sudden maybe they're taking some time to spend time with their kids or I don't know whether they can, or
they've got to keep working through. But this idea that you've got to keep your kids entertained all the time or stimulated. Like of course, when they go to school, you don't worry about that because they gain from.
Class to class and they're learning this and that. But when at.
School holiday time and kids, I mean, perhaps it's also modern parenting that sometimes you just have to find things for them to do because you're still at work but I do think it's it's a temptation almost. Is it driven by guilt almost or what that you feel you've got to provide your kids with stimulations something all the time, as opposed to, yeah, you know, just send them out into the garden with a ball and see what happens.
Well, I like that latter one. I do think that for some parents there is a feeling of pressure that they have to, you know, provide the stimulation and be doing things and keep kids active physically mentally. I guess I'm a little bit og on the whole thing. Well, you know, originally I kind of like the concept of allowing them to rest. So I'm a bit of an
old schooler. I like the holidays to have some component of rest associated with, you know, the break from school, because you know, these kids have a lot going on, and more so today with social media and all of that stuff that perhaps you, Timmy and I didn't have so much of a now day.
And well, I have this memory come back that oh, by the way, I forgot what OG is, but it's original.
Basically, it's old school.
How unhipp is that for me to not to have forgotten what OG means?
Well, it seems a little good old og.
Is og still a thing expression for you?
Are you saying I'm a bit out of touch with mentioning og? No? I think og is still pretty pretty good. You can use it. It's modern Dave Vernacula.
Okay o, G Yeah, And I sort of had the here and there. But because I just you know, look back to my school holidays. I think we just I just generally amused yourself or something unless you were going on holiday.
I think that's great and I and I wish that more parents would, you know, enable their children to lean into green space and to go out in the backyard and all the rest of it. But today there are other things that play. You have social media, and as you mentioned before, there are parents. They're working, so it's a really busy time. It's hard to manage that. So for some kids, you know, you get to the holiday and there are holiday programs because mum and dad are tied out.
And that's a reality of being a moten parent.
That is. And I mean, the holiday programs are great, some of them are wonderful. But I also think that we need to be mindful of the fact that, you know, kids do need to break they need a rest. They don't need to be stimulated, you know, with regard to maths and reading and all the rest of it. In their holiday, perhaps doing other stuff that's you know, not so mentally and physically taxing, but just getting out there,
getting amongst it. I mean, we had a lovely day in Auckland and I think around the country today, did you do What.
Did you do in your school holidays when you were you know, mumming and working, No, when you were a child.
When I was a child, oh no, I did. I amuse myself a bit, you know, out in the backyard, did some sports, hung around with friends. Mum would encourage outside activity, you know, a bit of definitely play, drawing art, you know, a little bit of TV here and there. But of course, you know, social media just wasn't the deal. And I'm not talking about when dinosaurs walk the earth him. If you're going to make comments inviting you.
Invited your own insults, not at all. But I was thinking of the differences between the environment that kids have, the environment that kids have maybe lets in the larger centers anyway, is that when I grew up, I grew up in rod and we lived on we literally had two sections. In one section, my dad had a vegetable garden and we had apple, an app a couple of
apple trees, a plump, a couple of plumb trees. I mean literally we'd be climbing trees and picking fruit and just I don't know, mowing the lawn and kicking the rugby ball around at home. Yes, whereas these days kids, most children have a much smaller, much smaller land print. What's the expression, But there's more less room to plan unless they go down.
To the park.
The landscape is a little more narrow and yeah, but there are lovely parks around, and there are lovely walks. But parents also have to be a little bit vigilant of, you know, just sending kids to those places.
That's what I mean, as opposed to just go out in the backyard, job done and before you know, you're you know, banging nails into something or you.
Know, except that, you know, there's there's nothing wrong with kicking a ball around or having a few little things that kids can do, you know, buckets and spades and also you mentioned gardening stuff like that, you know, walking around. I think today with parents working, they tend to organize outings, because then they can put a bit of a plan in place so that kids get a little bit of those after school kind of adventures and classes and that kind of format, as well as time with their parents.
In terms of activities, it might even be a visit to the museum, an art gallery, you know, something like that.
I think that sort of stuff is good.
You know, Sorry, my phone's just gone off because I forgot to mute it.
Sorry people if.
You radio, yes, radio, because you know, if you're listening with your parent and you reckon, you've got you've worked it out with your kids. I mean, how did you go about just making your own decisions around how much stimulation to provide your kid. Did you feel a real responsibility that I've just got to fill every second of the day for them, or do you actually sort of trust them to for their brains to kick in and
find their own amusement. And you see, the temptation for a lot of parents is like can I use my phone for a bit mum, dad? And here you go and five hours have gone, are you still on your phone?
Well that's not only in the holidays though, I mean, as parents we do have to have a look at you know, the device time, and that's a completely separate issue. But yeah, I think parents shouldn't feel the guilt and they shouldn't feel the pressure to be doing something every moment of that, you know, during that holiday time, because kids just need to reset. It's a little bit of
a reset from one term to the next. They need to rejuvenate, just let themselves be and do that kind of stuff that you know feeds the soul.
So we want to have from you on r.
Eight hundred and eighty, ten and eighty. Actually the simple question is do you feel the need to constantly entertain or fine stimulation.
For your kids?
Have you got have you got a good balance there?
They actually find that, you know it.
Just give them a little bit of time and they might say they're bored for a bit, but believe it or not, their brains will actually finally find something to amuse themselves with. School holiday dilemma for every family, I would say, should you allow your kids to be bored? And when would you provide them with something as a distraction? What's the balance for you? Love to have your cause
on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. You can also text on nine two nine two and we'll be back in just a moment.
This is News Talks.
Be My guest is Sarah Chapman. By the way, she's a psychologist. She knows a bit about the stuff. So that's that's what we've got her in, of course, isn't it. I hope that what makes sense?
Good good. I just wanted to check that.
Imagine if you were like, I'm just making it up.
I'm just somebody who've walked in off the street.
That's right, quarter past five News Talks, he'd be welcome back to the parents quite I'm Tim Beverage, my guest to Sarah chat One, and she's a psychologist at Mind Works, and we're talking about just entertaining your kids throughout the course of the holiday. But there's a thing where we're just talking about in the break Sarah about well there was a bit of a divide there, but parents who feel guilty or something You've had contrast.
I had a little text from somebody who said that they do feel guilt about providing stimulation, but not necessarily in the way that we were speaking in terms of none of their kids' friends are in the country at the moment. They've all gone on overseas trips and this parent is going, wow, you know, if only I wish, And so you know, there are people that use a holiday to go overseas now that we're post COVID, and that also puts a little layer of pressure on parents
to perhaps step up to that. You know, I don't feel that, and I don't think people shoul feel that, because it's a very individual decision as to what you do with your children as parents. Texts of the Destiny.
I think there is quite a big gap in New Zealand society in terms of, you know, with people who can't afford to do it, because actually, you know, if you can afford to take your kids on a overseas holiday every year or two, then you would have to be on a and own a house and you know, be able to deal with the mortgage and things like that. You either you or you and your partner need to earn a that's a lot of money.
It's a big ask, and so many families can't be all over that kind of situation. So I would say to the person that text, and don't be pressured. Don't feel pressured by that kind of you know that that raising that to that bar because you would be amongst a big group that just haven't got those kind of
situations at the forefront. And you know, I think it's okay to enjoy our country, particularly at this time of the year when we're coming into such lovely times and there are plenty of things to do with your children during holiday times.
Yeah, well, look, we're very lucky we had we did. We actually were one of those families once in a lifetime. Hopefully it'll be more than once in a lifetime. Luckyly twice in.
Two years my way. But I bought my lotto ticket.
But we had a skiing holiday overseas in Europe which was absolutely magnificent. But then again we also I've got really really you know when you've had a good holiday, because your memory of it remains strong. Yeah, there are holidays I've had where I remember vaguely, but you have a.
Very clear image of what we're done.
On that holiday, we did Dusty Sound and we went down to Tiano, and I just it was such a fantastic holiday because it was different and you because there was something about there was even just the question around holidays. But I'm getting off the track here, But because as a psychologist.
I wanted to just ask about.
When you it's just the way brains need to evolve as well. And if you're trying to fill in the gaps all the time for your kids.
Are you making them in need of that? Are you making them weedy?
And intuitively, I would think yes, because it's a bit like if you create a vacuum, in other words, you don't give the kids that stimulation, then it will get Their brains will find a way of filling that in. And I wonder if it stifles creativity and just normal mental development if you're constantly here's the new thing that you know, here's the new game, here's the new video game, this or that, to fill your minds in as opposed to I don't know, just.
Well, I mean, there is overstimulation syndrome, so you know, those are the words around that kind of feeling, and that is when kids, you know, can become increasingly anxious and very very het up because they are not being stimulated to a very high level all the time, because the parents in effect have set up a structure whereby
the kids are needing that constant input. So I don't think that that's necessarily good for anyone for example, the parents are just overwhelmed and often exhausted by it, and the children similarly. But also there's a need that's created there and you know, hence you end up with a highly anxious child sometimes.
Yeah.
Actually, we've got a message it from Stu, who's a school principle, and I think he puts the issue quite nice and cleanly. He said, kids, he said, you could disagree with this or not, but he said, kids need to be bored and life is not a constant excitement package. They can be their most creative. This is what made me ask about that. Actually, they can be their most creative when they need to make or create something, and school is not.
A school is not an excitement machine either.
I love that. Yeah, but I and I think you know, he's speaking to a good pause, a bit of a reset, a nice break can have some you know, beneficial implications for children, but also for parents. I mean, I was talking to a parent the other day who was just having a really nice time being around her children in the home during the first week of the holidays, because they were just close. It wasn't like they all got up at you know, seven o'clock to be it's good
way ASU eighte thirty and then she goes off. She was just enjoying that proximity, that closeness and just being able to, you know, go for a walk with the kids.
I quite like that, just hanging out without the sense that we've I.
Think that's that there are deadlines or time frames.
We've got to do this or we have to do that. I think just to go. I mean, I've got some things. I'm going to be having a few days off, and we're in the middle of doing a whole lot of DIY stuff. But I was thinking, oh, well, I might just I've actually mentioned him, my girls, you want to help me putty a few holes and get.
Rid of but dad, well, funny things, labor.
It's the stuff that I used to love doing if I was you know, when if the builder came around, I was the right hand man.
Really, it's probably had a little tool belt on and out to find something to do.
It's lovely, I mean, because kids take forever to do something.
Anyway, But that's okay. Those are the things that we've kind of lost in terms of the you know, social media that's crept and device use and all of those things that have crept into the children's repertoire of.
The constant need for them to check their messages and things as well, and that and that is a difficult one because it's sort of like, can you just you know your friend's still going to be And I know there's that social pressure that I have somebod who sent me a message, I need to check see if they've replied, And I guess as adults we do that, but also I quite like put them a phone down and going it doesn't exist for a little bit.
But I mean, we've talked about this before, and there need to be checks and balances in place. And remember him, as a parent, you don't need to be your children's friend because at some point in the parenting experience you will have to make some hard and very unpopular decisions, and you know, put things in place that mean that you know, friendship and contact is minimized a little bit while you actually enjoy the quality of a parent child relationship.
Do you think kids get to sleep in as much as I might and my me and my brothers might have been able to because no, I don't think somebody has also sented to message saying hi Tim, I reckon. Some of our teams should be able to sleep in in the holidays. This is when their major bones growing and need stillness for this to happen, and have a rest for their brains to have a sleep from all that stimulation, which can be overwhelming.
I'm right, and I'm right on us.
I love that that well, that is an ogy kind of attitude as well. I mean, that is allowing a child, you're so I wrote that is allowing you know, a teenager, a child to just, you know, disconnect. I mean, we love a level of connection, but I'm not so sure that we love so much social media connection. I like face to face connection. I like catching up with people, and children need to know that that is an option
to but also rest, relaxing, just chilling out. That gives a child, you know, space to figure things out and work things through.
I wonder if we've if our attitude to this is changed in a not so good way that we as a society or so. I don't want to sound all leuctury by the way, I know we a society. It sounds like I'm at the pulpit, But what I mean is that we've evolved in a way that we almost feel that doing nothing as lazy as opposed to actually, guess what, it's just relaxing.
Oh.
I definitely think that there would be sudden.
There's an undercurrent of yeah, what else should I be doing with my time right now?
But I also think there's another thing that kicks into play, it comes into play, which is that, because of parental guilt, they try to stack and you know, put so much in a day so that they feel like they're really engaging with their children. Often what that leaves is a parent who isn't engaging with their children, but they're sending them places or you know, they're throwing them into a situation where they're just following behind their children. So you've
got to create a balance. And I mean it's moderation, isn't it. Moderation in all things gives you a really good outcome. So you know, a little bit of social media, a little bit of outside time, bit of parent child time, bit of friend time. I mean, if you can get a really nice balance in all of those areas during a holiday, I think you've really achieved. I mean that's a big tick.
Yeah.
Another one says, I mean this is more of a statement. We can either agree with it. I think we're pulling agree with it. A problem we find with some children at school is obviously from a I imagine from a teacher, is that they have been so and they've been stimulated and overmanaged at home, and then when they're asked to think for themselves, they don't cope.
Well that, of course, you see that a lot when children transition from school to a tertiary educate, a place of tertiary education, whereby at school they have been managed, at home they have been managed, and then university nobody really cares. You are in charge of yourself and the deadlines are just there and you have to abide by that. So yeah, I mean that's.
When some people go off the rails.
They discover alcohol, and they discover they don't have to really go to that lecture.
They can borrow someone else's nuts before you not.
Yeah, well, alcohol, marijuana, none of that really works to improve your brain at all.
No, let's take some calls Mia.
Hello, Hi, I'm just pulling out of the driveway and then switched off. I'm saying, you know about kids being bored and how they've got to find their own things to do, and I look next door. I've got a two story house, and here's that. I think he's ten year old, and the son and the daughter who's I don't know, I think she's seven.
The top, oh dear.
The top windows open, and they're proceeding to climb out onto the roof.
A little bit of parental attention could be the order of the day.
Yeah, so that's an example of them crowding their own fun, which is probably not on the safety scale, is it. No?
No, no, But hey, you know you've goallet kids do these things, don't they because you know they could fall and break their arm, but they won't do that.
Again, that's a hard lesson.
I would probably want them not to be on the roof. What about you, I mean, do you remember what you I don't know if you've got.
Kids or well, yeah, I've got thrown up kids and now I've got four grandchildren. But I yeah, I'm a kind I've had a lot of a child and it was it was very hard for me to step out of my comfort zone to still let my living children do the things that kids need to do, because you know, you're very conscious of what can happen. But hey, they all survived, and.
Yes, I'm sorry to hear that. That's it.
I can't think of a worse thing to have to deal with in your life.
Yeah, I know, but you know, I'm proud that I've managed to step through that there. And you know, my kids grew up doing things that most kids you know, should be doing, and luckily and grew up in the era where we didn't have screens, and that might have been a different thing.
That's probably a big help. But you've definitely triumphed. And very sorry to hear about your last that's.
Leah, It's just a question. I was just thinking. It must be that you say you've got grandkids? Now, Yes, how much of a thrill was it to have grandkids? When you think when you've been through and then you see another generation, that must be amazing to become the grandma, isn't it.
I tell you I've longed and longed to be a grandpiarent and I was like, what is going on here? And then we've had four grandchildren in two years. My heart is full.
Oh that is marvelous. Wow, that's a lot.
Yeah, our last little granddaughter arrived on just on the first of October, so yes, we're very happy.
I congrass.
I'm sorry, I'm hitting the trivia again on this. While we got I'm always fascinated with what name have you got as a grandparent, because and was.
There there were so many to choose?
Did you choose your own order that those grandchildren just accidentally called you NINGI or something or no?
No, well know, wanted to be called Mimi.
I went, I wanted to be called that.
And my darling son in law, who who is a lovely cat, said, oh, you mean like Mary Pete, you know, because it's Mary for weeze or urine or something like that.
And I was like, I didn't know that. Oh dear, it's also French.
It's also French. I would say, can you know?
So now?
I thought, oh, okay, well now so now I'm g that's not yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Memi and went into the g that's very European cosmopolitan.
I like that.
I'm actually it was quite Hey, thanks Mia, and I'm.
Great and congratulations, what a great life.
Oh thank you.
Take care. I'm not sure about the climbing on the roof thing.
Actually, I don't know are you going to be are you planning on being a grandmar at some stage.
At some stage mind up to you though, was iterhaps a little bit young. And I am putting no pressure on any of them because I'm thinking.
Well, yeah, that's why I said, are you planning as opposed to look at you, you must be a grandma.
But I'm not going to let them call me mem that's.
Me actually, funny enough, my SASA, one of my my my girl's grandma is Mimi.
Only a bit of an inform her of the linguistic difficulties with that name.
I like the story of Actually there was a friend of my mum's whose her name was Ninny.
I don't know where that came.
And the grandfather was known as no No because I think he said no a few too many times to him, I don't know, with the kids doing whatever, no no, and he became no No, which I think became a
of endearment. Another one to say. So, Actually, there is another issue that's tied in with kids amusing themselves, and it's about the how to deal with to keep them safe when it comes to social media and dealing with strangers online and how you managed that and how you actually teach your kids about that without freaking them out.
Well, of course that does come into holiday time too, because a lot of parents do opt to allow a little bit more of the so media these days to creep into a holiday repertoire because you've got a bit of extra time and perhaps not so many options that you're thinking of, you know, out loud, so you perhaps point your kids in that direction. But it's I mean, it's a really weird it can be a very weird landscape.
I love social media in terms of its accessibility to information and allowing you know, connection in that way, but it can also allow really negative connection. And if you think you know all about it as a parent, you don't.
It's kids, I mean, because I think that actually the schools do a good job in the space of teaching kids about stranger danger, just in terms of general out and about strange danger, not online stuff. And there's a I mean, there's a way of doing it, I guess where, Because what you're trying to teach your kids about is stuff that can be quite dark and really awful. But you don't want to introduce that theme into their lives. You want to protect them from.
It without that you don't want to freak them out.
You do.
Without telling them all the reasons why. Yes, I guess that sums it up, isn't it.
Well. A lot of people start messaging though failarly on with kids.
Ye, And what I mean is, how do you describe why you know if you because you have to give a bit of context for things like if you hear from someone honey that you don't recognize or such and such, I don't want you to talk to them and then they'll say, well, you know, you just delete that or you tell me. I guess that's part of it, as well as having a relationship where your kids will keep
you up to date with what's happening. Yes, but also how do you just tell them that to feel confident that they just shouldn't engage with people who they don't know.
Like all life explain the worst of it. Yeah, But like all life lessons, it takes time. With regard to the you know, the parenting messages that you're sending through. You have to be repetitious. You have to be consistent. I mean, when you talk your daughters to say please and thank you, it wasn't just a off. You had to keep saying say please, say thank you to gram or whatever. So with the messaging in and around this kind of topic area. I mean, you have to keep
the messaging going because this is a continuous threat. If your children are online a lot, this threat isn't going away. There are horrible people that want to do horrible things, you know a lot of the time. And whilst you don't want to freak your children out, they do need to know that they are children and they need to come to you as their parents, as the architects of their destiny, as the people who are tasked with the good, the bad, and the ugly decision making up until a
certain age. You know, they it's great if they feel comfortable that they can come to you and have those conversations because they do need to know that it you know, that kind of landscape. The digital social media environment is one that is large and has a lot of different people in some good, some bad.
The scary thing in this study that's come out is that more more than sixty percent of children interact online with people they don't know on a daily basis, despite being aware of the day and look, we're talking about grooming without I mean, obviously we're aware of the time slots were not going to go right into that, but I mean, that's a large number of people of kids not listening to, hopefully the advice that they're getting.
Well, that's right, because you know, as a child, you will probably push parameters because you're learning and you're growing and you're experimenting. I mean, you remember when you were a young kid, the various things you did. It wasn't you know, you weren't doing what your parents told you
to do all the time. And now we have social media, so that's just another environment that children are operating within, and you know, they will push some boundaries, they will push parameters, they'll do a few little naughty things that they shouldn't be doing.
I guess the question is how do you you always get that child. You can tell them not to touch the stove, not to touch the stove, but there'll always be a child who has to find out by touching the stove. And on an online situation, you don't want those. I mean, that's why the kids are still wary of them still clicking. Is it curiosity?
Well, it's very accessible. They might hear stories from their friends that they might do this, whether their friends are doing it or not, as irrelevant. If a person says, old, yes, I am it means it's true. So you know, kids do it because it's out there, it's accessible, and they're curious.
Yeah, at least. Actually, one thing they do do is I think that they talk to it, their friends about it as well, and I think as a cohort kids are more aware of what's wrong, even even if they're still talking to stranger.
But that can work both ways. Yeah, because if a stranger is really you know, fun and saying really cool things and getting them involved in stuff that can work, that they all, you know, jump on board with that.
Right.
Let's take another call Shane High.
Yeah, loving the program, guys. It's a great subject you're talking about. I think it's one of the most important subjects I do education out there for many years now in regards to helping families in Australia, and there's a great awareness out there that I talk because I've been doing it for so many years. You see how the sort of generations are really concerned about their children with
the social media exposure. We've been doing advocacy work through the government, and the government are actually now putting bands on social media. They're laying up the legislation of that with children and.
The age limit. Australia is actually legislating for it, aren't they. I must say, I do quite like that idea.
Do you support it?
To Shane, I'd still been modeled on how they're going to approach it, you know, with people who already look, this is an addiction to you were sort of wondering, you know, is it just curiosity? It's more I look at generational social engineering of the you know, the human being within this social system for many years, and it's more conditioning that's been marketed where these screens are captivating what I call modern Pavlovian conditioning, where the child's being captivated with.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think you've got a point where.
Shane starts in it's embryonic phases. It starts as curiosity and absolutely for some kids that can end it in addiction.
Yeah, yeah, anything else before we've got to go in a moment shame any last weeks idea.
You know, it's just basic stuff, you know what I have the case the workout theories. Don't let them do screen work when the sun goes down because the biology of the body is used to having darkness when the sun goes up and down, and just try to get there. That'll help their sleeping patterns. And don't have carbs with these screens because both of them combining are creating a massive problem with hydrolys Actually interesting.
Interesting, Yeah, I hadn't heard that one before, but actually quite like that rule of the when the sun goes down sat as the phone.
Although daylight saving is not going to help you.
Their shame because I have to rethink that if you're an invercargol and some of them be on their phone still about ten thirty.
But I think we know what Shane means.
I think Shane, that was great.
Good on you. Hey, there we go, time flies, sir. I know we're going to go to the sports wrapping.
Just hey, thanks for coming.
It's my pleasure. As always, I.
Want to check out your work or how to get in the hold of you.
As they do after the show. Very popular show to me, mindwork stock co dot in z.
Stop flirting with me popularity and you're dancing.
It was your dancing.
There we go?
What was it again, mindwork stock co dot inzed.
Excellent, Thanks so much, so much, see.
You next time.
Excellent.
We'll be back in just a moment. Nick Beuley is joining us for the Sports Rap News Talks. He'd be nineteen minutes to six.
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