You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
And a very good afternoon to you. I'm Tim Beverage. Welcome to today's Weekend Collective this Sunday, the sixteenth of June. We'll be taking by the way, you can text your feedback anytime on nine to two nine to and of course later on we'll be taking a course just looking
at what's happening today. Shortly Politics Central, I'll be speaking with the Taga University International Relations professor Robert Patman on whether actually peace in Ukraine as possible as world leaders gather in Switzerland to try and build support for the peace proposals for Ukraine and actually where the Putin's peace offering, no matter how unrealistic, it gives us course for hope.
And then we're going to be catching up with a Minister for Workplace Relationship relations should I say and Safety Brook van Velden on the government's announcement of a road show consultation on work health and safety and don't forget to stick around for four o'clock the Health app. We're joined by psychotherapist Carle MacDonald. We're going to have a chat about adult ADHD and newer divergence in coping with that.
Will be taking your calls after four on eight hundred and eighty ten to eighty and at five o'clock Smart Money with Chris de Lever from Harbor Asset Management, among other things. If you've ever wondered about how to invest in the bond market, Chris is going to give us the one oh one to starting with what is a bond actually, which for many people is probably something of a mystery. Anyway, right now it is eight minutes past three Politics Central. Oh, by the way, just before we
get into Politics Central. So the Prime minister's winging his way to Tokyo as we speak on the Defense Force seventy five second, and he's hoping his trip to Japan will bring more investment opportunities to New Zealand. And I've been meeting with the Japanese Prime Minister at the end of the week. Gosh, he's getting around, isn't he. The Blues and the Chiefs are going to be playing the
Super Final next Saturday. I had an interesting conversation with a colleague of mine around the Warriors who described, basically said the first forty minutes of the Warriors in Campsy later, the last twenty nine minutes of the Warriors. According to a source of mine, who is also an expert in Karagate chicken, but he said if the game had finished at the fifteen or twenty minute mark, that would have been great. Anyway, They've got their decade long losing streak
against Melbourne. And I got that one wrong because I sometimes think the Warrior's specialty is, you know, when everyone's sort of thinking, oh, there's no way they're going to beat the Panthers, or there's no way they're going to reverse that, you know, that losing streak against the storm, it's the time when they surprise and delight us. But unfortunately not this time anyway. Right, So, world leaders have gathered at a Swiss mountain resort to try to build
support for Ukraine's peace proposal. Mark Mark Mitchell. That is going to be representing New Zealand. By the way, I just went on and googled It's Bergenstock. Is the bergenstock on the shores of Lake Lucerne. Oh wow, you'd have to save up a little bit to stay there. But of course Switzerland itself is incredibly expensive. But what a gorgeous spot. We're not going to be talking about the scene. But more than ninety countries are taking part in the
summit on Peace in Ukraine. Russia was not invited and China its most important al I think this is a shame they refused to attend and to discuss that, I'm joined by international relations professor at o Tigo University and his name is Robert Patman, Robert Good Afternoons noon tom So. Russia has set out at ceasefire terms which have been rejected by most European leaders. What did you make of the offer of the ceasefire.
Well, it's a non author because the so called peace initiative consists of mister Booting consolidating two regions donetskon Hansk, which he has under occupation, and two other regions which are not fully under his occupation, which are cursed and SUPPORTIA. So what he's saying, in effect is that he wants his invasion to be internationally recognized and the means of that illegal invasion to be recognized international. In return, he
will agree there should be no more fighting. So he's looking at basically peeling off about twenty percent of Ukraine, and in addition, Ukraine would have to give a solemn undertake in never to join NATO, which means that he's actually vetoing the sovereign choices of a neighboring country. So to me, it's not a serious thing at all because it's completely inconsistent with the UN Charter, with international law.
Why do you think he did.
It, Well, there's several reasons. Firstly, it's not hitting the headlines, but the Russian armed forces are now beginning to take a bit of a battering in Crimea and air defense
in a EU Crimea has become problematic. So he needs also responding to the fact that Russia has taken a huge casual is in Ukraine, and so he may be feeling a little bit of domestic heat there and he wants to I think he's not involved in the Ukraine peace conference in Switzerland, so he wanted to get the world's attention that he wants to play the reasonable guy, the invader who's been misunderstood essentially. So yeah, I think
those those motivations are there. He wants to take a bit of play away from the peace conference in Switzerland, and he's also concerned, I think about the battlefield situation.
Okay, just the fact of the offering itself, even though obviously there's a lot of cynicism behind it, we suspect does it give any cause for optimism that we can read into the fact that, well, he's at least raised it. Does it give us, Does it give Europe and Ukraine something to work with or is it simply just a distraction and a piece of cynical politics.
Well, I think a distraction and the cynical partic because it's not based on a rules based order for a country like New Zealand, we have to operate international on the basis of rules and principles. And you can't have a country effectively engage in a land grab and said, oh, we're we're happy, we're twenty percent of what we've grabbed. We did try to grab the whole country, but we
didn't manage to do it. And is the international community going to recognize such behavior because it doesn't stop there? Ef that's a precedent, and I think that's you know, it's not it's certainly not in New Zeine's interests to say that's fine. So this is an attempt for a land for peace deal. But you know what, happens in six What happens in six months time if he decides those regions that he said he would accept in return for peace, he decides he needs a bit more.
So it's not even a starting point for any.
Sort of not serious at all. I mean, let's be quite clear, good this mister Plutin can stop this conflict with in twenty four hours by withdrawing Russiam falls to the internationally recognized borders of Russia.
Well exactly what pretty much what Zelensky has said. What about Europe using the money from frozen seized assets? Is this part of making support for Ukraine Trump proof?
I think it's an attempt to do that. And also in addition, of course NATO are taking a similar measure, because they've made with the exception of Hungary, which tends to be pro putin, all the other members of NATO are in agreeing to make a contribution to Ukraine's defense mandatory. We also know that a number of European countries are sending trainers to Ukraine's territory to train the Ukrainian army. So I think that there's a recognition that mister Trump
may win the election. They have to protect their statestrategic interest because mister Trump's made it quite clear he will not be supporting the attempt of ukraining to eject the invasion force on his territory.
How much has actually been seized with those assets? I mean, do you know how do you know how this is going to work? Because who controls those seas?
Yeah?
I mean it's a bit problematic because while assets are frozen I think more than three hundred pion My understanding is they're using the interest from those frozen assets. I think the reasoning is that, you know, Russia has broken international law and therefore it's not entitled to the same perfections that everyone else has who's complying with international law.
But it's still I think many international lawyers are quite or uncomfortable about what's happening, because you know, he could set a precedent as well.
Well.
I guess the thing is it's sort of like a halfway house. They haven't actually taken the assets. Is they're just going to use the benefits, aren't they? So it's a sort of is it a compromise to ye?
When you look at the damage literally hundreds of billions of dollars of damage to infrastructure of Ukraine in an unprovoked war. You can understand why there is a lot of feeling, not least in Ukraine, but they desperately need an infusion of funds and why not use this money? But as I say, the proof of that, you know, the proof of the pudding is going to be eating. How's this going to work out?
It is an interesting one. They're talking about precedents, but of course we've had reparations before for wars and stuff, isn't it. So I'm not sure why they're Well, I can understand why they're nervous about it. Lawers are always nervous about everything, aren't they. But what would you think if they actually said stuff that we're going to seize the assets and we're going to apply all this for Ukraine.
I think it's a huge injustice if Russia doesn't make any contribution towards the damage that it's caused in a neighboring country. I mean, we are to initially look at Mariopol, a beautiful city which was just absolutely just reduced to rubble and all because of at all ambitions of the Putin regime, and you have to say, you know that there has to be some means of rebuilding Ukraine when foreign forces are eventually ejected from that country.
Now onto the just on the Olympics, the Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney says the G seven unanimously backed a French proposal to request a global truce during the Olympic Games. Okay, what chance of success of that.
Global troops in relation to Ukraine during the Olympics. Well, I don't think obviously that would depend on the two conflicting parties. I don't know what Misternsky said about that. It's interesting though that the Ukraine Initiative, the conference in Ukraine which you began with the introduction to mister Sensky presence of is actually trying to begin the process of
getting a comprehensive peace plan in place. So it's just the beginning of a long process, but it's quite a significant step and shows I think, you know, mister Putin is very.
Concerned about this. What what is what is uh Selensky hoping to do?
Well?
Is this? This conference is being attended by more than one hundred countries and organizations. Actually, and yeah.
Sorry, you know, you're right, because actually I realized that I let one of my earlier questions get deflicted by Putin, and actually the whole question is yeah, so let's let's just let's just flesh that out a little bit more before you before we wrap it up as what are they hoping to achieve from the summit they're having in Switzerland.
Well, hoping to come up with an internationally supported plan to bring peace to Ukraine which is consistent with international law and the Union Charter, and amongst other things. The plan that mister Selensky has tabled, although he said, you know, he's he's willing to consider other variations on it, is a cessation of hostilities, the restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity, withdraw Russian troops Ukrainian soil, and the restoration of Ukraine's
pre war borders with Russia. Now, none of that's acceptable to the Russian leadership, but what has wide support internationally and so it's putting pressure on Russia and is an attempt to mobilize international support for Ukraine's position.
So Ukraine's military position was looking pretty a little bit bleaker a few weeks ago, but how's it looking now? There was, it.
Was, but there's some worrying things from mister Putin, because Ukraine is for the last few months has been baking a strategy of what's called asymmetrical warfare. It's not attempting
to punch a hole through Russian defenses. It's going over the top now because it's been given going over the top of those defenses, because it's given permission by weapons owners like the US and Germany to use their weapons to attack targets or attack munitions and missiles which are being launched from Russian territory at least close to the border,
anyway close to the border of Ukraine. So in a sense, what we've seen is a dramatic escalation, particularly since the last US arms deal worth sixty sixty sixty one billion, which enables Ukraine. They've got longer range missiles now atoms as their core, and they're using these long range missiles to target air defense systems in Crimea. In the last few days they've knocked out four I think three major
Russian air defense systems. What does that mean, Well, it's very bad use, mister Putin, because if Crimea reaches a point where it can no longer be defended by the Russians adequately, that puts a lot of political pressure on mister Putin in the Kremlin. He can't really politically survive a situation where he's seen to lose in crimea.
As the only real thing that he's ever going to respond to force.
Well. This is a person who hasn't tolerated opposition at home and doesn't deal well when he counters resistance or opposition externally. So there's nothing in his track record which suggests he compromises or or you know, meets people halfway. And there's no halfway solution to this. By the way, you can't invade a country and they say I would decide to have half a loaf rather than the poor country.
That's just not on and I don't see there's any way out, And quite frankly, I think the quickest way of ending this war is to give Ukraine the support it needs to prosecute the war against what is an illegal invasion and attempted annexation.
Do you have any optimism as a result of the world leaders or gathering right now?
I think it's a would move. I would personally like to have seen New Zealand represented. This is no slight on the Minister for Police, but heads of state fifty countries are setting their heads of state, including by the way, Japan, where mister Luxan is about to visit. So I would have liked to have seen either the Prime Minister or the Foreign Minister or the Defense minister being present in Switzerland.
But it is an important conference because it's important for liberal democracy is in particular to show their solidarity with a country like Ukraine, which is a liberal democracy. But it's also a country which has given up nuclear weapons. You know, it shares that with New Zealand that we have non nuclear two countries have a non nuclear vision.
So it's important. And please we've got someone there. I just thought it would have been nice if we've just elevated it a bit, but that's you know, it's politics as it.
Yeah, well, Robert, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us this afternoon. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Enjoy the resk of you afternoon. That's Robert Patman. He's international relations professor at a Tiger University. Some fascinating insights there. Gosh, interesting developments. Isn't it a couple of big things happening in that respect? Well, probably I'll throw this into talk back as well, actually, is it a mistake that we're not sending Christopher Luxen or maybe Winston Peters. I can see the logic for Mark Mitchell having served in international
conflicts and having an insight in that stuff. But from a diplomatic point of view, I mean world leaders are going and we're sending our minister of Police. I think Robert Patman makes an interesting point there. You can text me your feedback on nine two nine two anyway. We'll be back in just a moment, Brook van veld and the Minister for Work PAPST Relationships Relations will join us to talk about health and safety in just a moment
to welcome back to the Weekend collective. By the way, anytime you want to send your feedback in text on nine two nine two and right moving on, so, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brook van Velden has opened consultation for an overhaul of the Health and Safety at Work Act. Plans for reform come as part of the National and
Act Coalition agreement. Minister Van Velden made the consultation announcement on Friday, saying our health and safety culture can be summed up by the sea of orange road cones that have taken over the country, from Santa parades to property development. You can't get a lot done without having to set up a barricade of cones. Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brook van Velden joins me.
Now, good afternoon, Good afternoon, Tim, How are you.
I'm pretty good. Thanks. You know the thing that stuck out Santa parades? What's happening at Santa parades?
Like this was just one example. And I talk to people all the time and say, you can't get anywhere around Auckland, or around any one of our main highways, or anywhere in the country, to be frank without encountering orange cones everywhere. And just as I was on my way to make that announcement down at Field, we came across hundreds of orange cones on the way, on the sides of the road, and they didn't appear to be
any good reason or justification for them. So we're hoping to ask some good, genuine questions of our health and safety today. Yeah, I'm sure in many cases they make sense to keep people safe, but are we overdoing it in other cases?
Okay, so they're an example is sort of an obvious example. We can all relate to more specifically outside of that what is broken and what needs to be fixed.
But what is really broken here is many people, businesses and workers are not sure what they should be doing to comply with health and safety, and so we're seeing people put up posters and their work environments wondering is that enough to keep my workers safe? And other times we have a lot of cops added to business. Business owners are now questioning whether or not what they're doing
to comply is actually leading to better outcomes. So what I'm hoping to do with this consultation is go around to New zealand talk to as many different industry groups from the business side as well as the worker's perspective to understand whether the laws and the regulations are working for specific industries and whether or not they're too prescriptive or whether they're too relaxed. Until we've got those questions answered, I'm not going to say I know all of the answers.
Do businesses know what's expected of them under the current legislation.
In many cases, people are following the guidance that's given by Work Safe, and they do feel like there is very good guidance there. But on the other hand, I've also spoken to business owners who aren't sure whether or not they're doing what they need to to comply. In many cases, when we're bringing in this director liability to businesses, there is a bit of a gray zone on who is actually liable. Is it the business owner, is it the manager, is it the people on the ground. Well,
in some cases it's everyone, but people are unclear. So what we're hoping to do is make those laws clearer and also ask whether or not the costs are outweighing the benefits in some cases. But let's actually get a better understanding of what's happening out there and why it's so hard for people to comply.
Of course, inevitably, I imagine it's we're always going to have to balance this need for safety and practicalities and common sense. And you talk about balancing that in your press release, the need for safety with the practicalities and common sense. Are you going to be able to do it without still having to rely on terms such as so far as is reasonably practicable? Or are there away? Is there always going to have to be some sort of general sort of by the way, what do you reckon?
Yeah, And that's one of the central questions that we'll be asking, how do you determine what is reasonably practicable? In some industries, people have been asking for the law to be very black and white so they can be one hundred percent clear that they have complied. And in others, no, this is far too prescriptive. We don't want that. And that's in the case of the orange cones. You know that's actually written out how far distance they should be
between each cone. That's getting into really nitty gritty, niche prescriptive law. Those questions, I think do need to be asked. How prescriptive is right for specific industries and is it too prescriptive in some cases and not prescriptive enough in others.
So I'm hoping going all the way from paying a Day all the way down to in Vicago, we'll get a better picture as a government of what is happening on the ground and how we can make sure that health and safety compliance doesn't cripple productivity because we know that we've got that issue. But on the other hand, ensuring that we are keeping people safe work so that they are returning home to their families. It's about the balance.
Well, the Greens are protecting death. Their spokesperson too Too, says more workers are going to die as a result of this move. It's that simple. Is it that simple.
It's not that simple. It's not that simple. It really does come down to that balance. Yes, at the heart of this, I want to make sure that everybody goes home safe at the end of the day when they're out there providing for their families, that they return home
to their families. But on the other hand, if we burden companies and business owners with compliance and compliance and more cost and more regulation, and it doesn't actually lead to better outcomes for the workers, is it beneficial not just for that business, not just for that worker, but for overall economy. So we need to be ripping back the layers and seeing whether or not all of these rules and restrictions are actually leading to better outcomes and are beneficial.
Are you expecting a difference in feedback from workers as opposed to businesses and have you received Is there a difference in approaches from people who are working within those businesses themselves. I think I'm.
Expecting to receive a range of feedback, especially when you think from the worker's perspective, You've got advocacy groups that are looking at it from a collective perspective, but I'm also very interested in hearing from individual worker experiences that may not usually be captured through the unions or through advocacy groups, because I don't feel in consultation here as
they are quite well represented. So I'm hoping to get as many perspectives as possible, but also bearing in mind that under the law, workers also do have a responsibility to keep themselves in their colleagues safe as well, not just the business owner. So it'll be very interesting from my perspective to see whether or not people are aware of what their obligations are, whether or not it's the business owner feel like they need to do everything to keep people safe.
Is everything up for review, like the consequences with the fines up to one hundred thousand dollars or to half a million, et cetera, and beyond if they're a company, is everything up for review?
Well, in my perspective, everything is up for review. We need to know that the costs and benefits are balanced, but also that when we have work Safe as a regulator going out there and creating prosecutions, that they're actually doing that right. As well as what is their engagement with guidance with businesses, Because of course we've got businesses
needing to comply, but we also have the regulator. And one thing that's coming through clearly even when I was down at Field Days is many people are unsure what is the role of the regulator, whether or not they are prosecuting in the way that's actually getting the best outcomes for business and for the health and safety system. So the regulation there is up for review in my opinion as well.
Hey, just out of curious, what's with the road show because when I hear road show, I picture a big bus with your picture on the side and safety health and safety logos and stuff. What does a road show look like with Brook van Velden.
From my perspective, it's making sure that we're on the ground. You know, we hear many stories when we're in Wellington. We spent four days a week there. I think it's really important not just to be in Wellington, but to be on the grounds listening to real kiwi's and what they have to deal with with the laws that we create. So that's what the road show is. It means that we're actually getting out of Wellington where the laws are
made back on to the ground where kiwis live. So I want to hear from everybody in their industry in their own town and getting out to as many places as possible. How is it as law makers accessible?
How long is it going to take just the road show itself.
It'll be four months. I'll be taking a bit by bit by bit of course, following alongside Parliament through the weeks as well, So we'll be on and off for four weeks and I'm hoping to meet as many people as possible. But if people can't actually come out to the road show and they might be listening along, I encourage anybody who's got opinions on health and safety to go onto MB's website. They can just type in my name, type in health and safety. I'm sure they'll find it.
But we want to hear from as many people in your own experience as possible.
Oh it sounds got quite a fun way to go around doing your job actually, So I hope you enjoy the road trip and we get something productive out of it.
Good luck, Thank you very much.
Yes, that's Brook van Velden, Minister for Health and Safety. Look, we're going to do talk back after this. Two things, we're going to have a chat about the Ukraine issue and whether you know the piece offer gave you some optimism and it should we have sent one of our leaders? Should we have sent Christopher Luxem basically but also health and safety? What would you be submitting? Do you think we've got Do you think that Brooks on the right path?
Those road cones and abyanes of our lives? Is that just on its own enough to be saying let's overhaul an example of why we need to overhaul our health and safety regulations. Love to hear from you on eight hundred eighty ten eighty in text on nine to nine two News Talk z B and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. As I've said, it's eight hundred and eighty
t and eighty. A couple of topics. Your response to the Robert Patman interview on whether there is the fact that Putin has raised the prospect of you know, doing a piece deal even though it's completely unrealistic. Does that give you hope? And should we have sink Christph Lux And I'm now after listening to Robert Patman, I think we made a mistake, much as I like Mark Mitchell
a lot. And I think that out of all the ministers who are not in you know, Deputy Preme Minister, Foreign Minister, et cetera, I think actually he does have a reasonable level of credibility to go over there, so and lucky old him a but and also health and safety. Do you think do you agree with Brook van Veld? And look at the road cones. Most of the texts I've got so far pretty much hate road cones. We've got lots of texts just indicating so maybe that on
its own is cause for revisiting it. Anyway, Let's let's get on with some of the Let's take some of the calls I one hundred and eighty ten eighty and there are some spear lines if you want to jump on it. I've got plenty of text feedback. But if you want to have your say right now, then we'd love to hear from you. Right, let's go to Chuck Gooday, oh hi.
I think there has to be a compromise because there's not much choice, just something that putin to get a little save a bit of face to his own population, give them some land. Maybe what he's asking for in return he has to agree to the Ukraine joining Needle and when that happens. If that happens, that means he breaks he moves on the new boundary, he'll be up against.
Would you tru I mean, I think this is a dumb question in a way because I think I know the answer. But how okay, how far would you trustin?
Not?
Would you trust him?
It's not a matter of trust. He's not totally stupid. If he agrees and Ukraine joins Natal like if he hits Poland, now he'll be tackling all of Europe. So if you say you can have it, these are the new boundaries. You cross the boundary and you're up against all the European countries and maybe the US.
Yeah, what do you make of just quickly? What do you make of the summit? As well? Because I haven't got myself distracted by Putina? Of course the summit's a big deal, isn't it.
No, I disagree with who's the expert you have on? Yeah? I think, oh, what's his name? Oh that's going there, Mark Mitchell, Mark Mitchell. He's excellent, he's got the experience. I think in a lot of ways he could off for ideas he'd be as good as luck.
Well, No, to be fair, he did say he meant no disrespect from He was just talking about the office, you know, having the office of the Prime Minister deep And I think that's a fair enough comment, doesn't it.
Yeah, But with someday like Mark Mitchell, with his experience in overseas in the military, I think he would be excellent.
Excellent, good on you that we'll put a vote of We'll put a tick in the vote of confidence in Mark Mitchell. There from Chuck, good on you mate, thanks for your col Mike good you.
Hide him just talking about health and safety. I got into facilities management in twenty fifteen and I think it was like a year after that the government, the new legislation came in for health and safety management, which is a good thing, but yeah, it was quite expensive for a lot of building owners and what have you to
implement the regulations. But they'd get detailed reports from provided health and safety providers to highlight and identify hazards all over the show on a building in a building, and that's good. But what I noticed is that a lot of contractors would bypass the whole process of signing in and reading they don't want to stand around for fifteen minutes reading a booklet on what the hazards are. But I guess it's prudent just to have them there so
that the building owners have covered themselves. That.
Yeah, it is a funny one day because when I with my constant production work of you've just reminded me of some of the facile questions I'm supposed to address, Like what's a hazard of being off? Stay on stage? Is falling off the stage? What safety procedures I talk to my singers and say, don't fall off the stage, or you know, there are some It does force you into some fairly ridiculous over compensating, don't you think.
Yeah, oh it is, well it can't Well it's not really funny, but it is. Well, yeah, some of the some of the things that are identified, Like you're telling an electrician be aware of electrical hazards.
Yeah, I mean, obviously the consequences they're probably worth pointing it out.
Well, they're aware. I'm pretty sure they're aware.
Of watch out. Well, yeah, I guess so. But for the apprentices, you know, there probably might be a news flash for them. It's like that particular connection there you know, it's not good enough to do X, Y and z, But of course that's the serious stuff, isn't it. Yeah.
Yeah, But at the end of the day, it is good to be able to point out to your fellow brothers and sisters hazards around the place and give them a heads up so that they're aware of the dangers. Yeah.
No, you're right. I think actually, you know, the drawing your attention to what the risks are and addressing it. But it suddenly reminded me because I was thinking about the health and my own engagement with health and safety and some of the things you're supposed to go through, and of course a lot of them common sense, but maybe it doesn't hurt to think about it anyway. That's let's carry on, David.
Hello, Yeah, gooday, Yeah. I thought it's pretty disturbed, to be honest. With Robert Patman's interview, he said it was an unprovoked war. It's been provoked for a very long time, pretty much the break up of the Soviet Union and with you know, Perusian was who he actually asked to join NATO, and you know, America and NATO have just
slapped him down repeatedly. But you know, The worst thing was in twenty fourteen, and the CIA helped create the coup that brought in the more western favoring government, which then led on to Zelenski and they began sholling ethnic Russians in eastern Well, Ukraine, I.
Don't quite buy those that interpretation of it. But are you saying that Ukraine brought the war upon themselves? That Vladimir Pertin's quite entitled to go in there and say I want, you know, twenty percent of Ukraine and you've only got yourselves to blame for me doing it.
Well, he said that it was a hard red line, what was a hard read law for Ukraine to become part of NATO, and Biden they announced that Ukraine is going to become part of NATO. You know, well, Ukraine was building up the military with their help with Actually.
Okay, sorry, David, do you okay one, it's none of his business what alliances they want to enter into. But do you ever think there was a danger that Ukraine or anyone in the West wants to Do you really think that anyone credibly thinks that Russia is under threats somehow from anyone else? Does anyone do you think that Ukraine was likely to invade Russia.
Well, we've already seen this with the Cuban missile crisis that very closely led to nuclear war when Russia union.
Yeah, well I think we can move I think we can move on from that, mate. Yeah, okay, but thanks for your call.
Yeah.
The idea, Oh, I'm not going to push back against anymore. I think it speaks for itself. A few texts, great assessment from Robert Patman and a bit reassuring chairs Steve Tim. I'm impressed with Brooks Roads roadshow wave consultation. It certainly allows for direct consultation to workers and businesses as opposed to just lobbyists in Wellington. Good point. I thought it from that point. About that, and Colin also says I've got a lot of faith that Brook van Valden will
listen and bring about change where it's needed. Kent says a few people sort of just backing up Mark Mitchell as being okay, because who with Mark? Who Mark Mitchell is? Kent writes, I'm all right with Mark Mitchell going to this peace conference. We have to look after our own country in nearby countries. Oh ye, your second sentence, I think we really need to. I think a secure Europe is a it should be very high in our list of priorities Kent. But yeah, you know, I think that
Mark Mitchell is good. But I think actually to be honest, listening to Robert Patman, when everyone else is sending their leaders, including Japan, which is where Luxen's visiting, actually think it was quite a big mistake that we're sending our Ministry of Police tim Robert Patman explained a bit more about
freezing assets and how that's more effective than sanctions. Bill Browse's book Freezing Order is where it all started in Wealth Worth Reading, says Cedric thinks Cedric just being to Napier for the weekend from Tarranger tounger cones everywhere thirty thirty K, sixty K, eighty K, and as per no one working the cone business puts out as many as twice as many as necessary as they paid per cone,
they leave them as twice as long as necessary. I tell you what if you had bought shares or your business owner around the time that health and safety went on steroids, I think road cone businesses, and the other one was fencing, of course, but you can understand that was probably in connection with the earthquake. Some of those businesses with fairly simple business plan sell and rent out
road cones would have made a killing. Tim Look at what the health and safety and rules have done to the cost of reroofing, more than double the cost, so many can no longer now afford to replace a wrecked roof, resulting them living in a damp, substandard home. Yeah, don't hold your breath for roofing rules to be changed about, you know, removing falling hazards and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, anyway, look, thanks for all your feedback. As somebody said, Putin should
just pull out of Ukraine. Who's going to clean up the mess he has made? Yeah, I don't buy this masochistic thing that somehow, oh Ukraine broadnots on its south by. You know, the movements to join, if anything, proves that it's important for Ukraine to have friends and to be part of NATO. It is exactly what we've witnessed ever since Putin rolled his tanks up and over the border. The idea that they should never have joined NATO was like, well, I'm sorry, but logic I don't think works on that
front as well. Also, it's the most revolting form of capitulation. To think that, oh, we better not do that otherwise will make the bully angry. Well, the only thing that's going to solve this thing is when the bully gets a bit more of a blood nose than he's getting right now, unfortunately, and what a bloody tragedy that is.
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