You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks ed.
B and welcome back to news Talk, said B. I'm Tim Bevers. This is the Weekend Collected by the way, if you missed it, We've had a couple of stonken hours of a broadcast and were gon't say so myself. The politics. We had a chat with Chris Hipkins around just what they're going to be doing looking at to get back comparing the whole capital gains tax sort of thing. And also with the mayor of Central Hawk's Bay, Alex Walker, about the Mari Wards and all that sort of thing.
So that was a fun hour for talkback on the Politics hour and for interviews, should I say, and also just gone now as the Health Hub with doctor John Campill, which is great fun. And the fun continues of course because this is smart Money and joining us in the studio. I used to have long introductions written for my guess, but then you sort of get to know him, don't you when the audience get to know him. So I
just said coming up to Max. I should have said coming up as Max Whitehead the last hour, I just said coming up as actually because I thought for a second it is white Head not white House? Who was the morals campaigner?
You've always had trouble with that. It's some guy and Wong and you he wasn't it? You politician used to get confused with too. Maks Bradford used to call me.
Oh that's oh gosh, you've got a He was like, keep a grudge.
Now.
I think where was he? The MP for Tataware or something? I think Max Breckfeeling it was your MP.
I think wasn't it.
Somewhere near right to Earl when I was there? Yeah? Anyway, I am very very good.
I've been listening to your last hour. That was really good. A lot of politics Phil spilled over into that area too, But I thought you and John Reddy were pumping it. And there I heard I heard my call come out of there?
What what was that?
The question was one of the newers come in saying why why medical? You know?
Oh yeah, actually that's right. Yeah. So this person was saying, why do I have to get a medical stuff every time I'm seck et cetera. And I thought we should throw that to you. Why not you here? You're an employment consultant the white Head group. I eight hundred something.
Did you hear that, folks? I eight hundred something? Actually twenty four seven ninety three ninety three. That's that easy.
Actually would be funny. I wonder what the alpha numerics Thatt have corid for something else started to just say, literally eight hundred something.
Now makes your questions? Is this? What was it? Big timer? Oh?
Yeah, no, it was the medical stuff.
You got it.
So the question was bored in is why do I have to get one every time? It's expensive? Blah blah blah, And obviously his employer doesn't trust him.
And I thought John answered it quite well. The reality is, because there's some people over there put a lot of bers into it, they're not really sick, and so the employers have a right in law to say, give me some legitimate proof you're sick. But what's happened?
Actually, okay, quickly, just while I got that thought, legitimate proof, if you sent them a bucket that showed you'd been sick, would that be enough. Here's here's something I produced five minutes ago. Here's the I mean, there's some evidence.
Ah no, a bucket full of spew going that. Goodness me that it could be anybody that legal producers got a little kiddy. It could be ill. Then that could be that Dad could use it for going off, for getting a couple of days off ill of work.
Don't give our ideas, by the way, he actually, but seriously, is it a question of trust that really if your employers, I mean there'd be some really large organizations or just have a blanket policy, which if you are working on minimum wage or you're a sort of you know, not anything less than thirty bucks an hour or something, you might feel, oh gosh, that's ridiculous. So I have to I'm going to take a day off work. But they
don't trust me. What do we know about the general practice around that sort of thing?
Because employers have nothing nothing, They can't they can't challenge you and say, hang on you, we're not sick, because they're not doctors, and so they must put them to the doctor. But the problems of doctors, it's just what John, your doctor, John said to you, is that the doctors have to look at someone who's well and then writers a certificate to say they're unwill And that's where it just sits uncomfortable. Most doctors just sign them off.
What are most employers?
Employers do actually we're not very happy of doctors. I can tell you, Oh really, why well they just sign anything. Oh so the rat bags who are having a go what about the doctor and the doctor signs it off?
What about? I mean, but do most employers insist on a medical certificate for everyone from day one? Because I mean, I would think that if you are a good employee with a good employment record, you call up, you say you're sick, I wouldn't think much of your employer if they were like, well, give me your medical still it when you've worked for a year or so without a SICKI.
Gets better than that term. Some people do five years, not one sick day. Then they have a sick day and the employer will go, you can take two days in and it's not a problem because you've been so loyal and good to us, no worries. So yeah, there is some good employers out there that will recognize that, and I would say majority of them.
But legally, if they want to, if they if they've got a massive workforce and they don't trust any of you, they can say you want to be you want to take a day off, we need that medical certificate. Otherwise you're not getting paid.
You got it. Otherwise they've got no rights to actually challenge in an individual at all that they're actually well.
What would they do if you didn't provide that? Would they just say, well, you've just taken a day of leave or something, or day or day without party? What do they do?
Well, it's very very difficult for an employee to say you were actually well unless they've got evidence of them and there has been this racism, had their photo taken or something like that.
Well, obviously the rule would be if you have to provide a medical stiff at them. What happens if you don't? So what do they do?
Well, it's very little they can do. So they can challenge the employee and go and look what is actually wrong with you? And that's what they're encouraged to do. Yeah, I know in a freezing works where I was working there in the department, that's what where you got the people to do. So if anyone had a funny day off like Friday or Monday morning, then you'd get them in and saying are you all right? Is there anything
we can do to give you support? Is there any illness there that perhaps maybe you're going to pass it on to the workmates or anything, and just hang on.
That's throwing it's on our heads for me because you say that they can ask for a medical certificate, but if you don't provide one, it sounds like it's not open and shut for the employer to say I'm not paying. Okay, so they can ask for a medical stufficate, but it doesn't sound like there's a lot backing that up.
Yeah. No, there's not a lot really backing it up. But that is a last resort and employer has entitled for it, and if you don't provide it, they can discipline you for not giving the medical certificate.
Oh okay, what discipline might might they be a warning?
Probably? Okay, it's the worst discipline you could possibly.
Get, unleas it's sex for the best or something.
At least it's happened over a whole string of times. And then they go right, O, well that's a dismissal.
Okay, so they can't actually, so they can't. Okay, that's good. I was just trying to get to the remedies. So they can ask for medical stiff get they're entitled to ask. Fine, if you don't provide one, you might get a warning. Then you get another warning. But they can't actually just dock your pay or take a day take a day off your leave.
Not not just like that. They've got to have genuine proof that you're unwell. Now, look, I tell you the circumstances are coming up now. So a person's been seen at the airport flying in and he's just had a week off ill. And so the employee said, you're not getting sick paid because that you have not been genuinelyly you've been on holiday. And so the guy actually went and took it to the court and won it because he said the holiday was very good for my illness,
so I took a time off. They've been seen on fishing boats fishing for the day and their workers come back and said, well, actually it was therapeutic for me to go fishing. I needed that time. That's bloody well, you get this mental illness. Now people seem to think they got a right to have a day off.
Well, that's it does raise the interesting question is what is a legitimate activity you can do while you are officially sick. So if you happen to go down to your local cafe for a slap up binge of missus Meghan's Pie Shop.
Missus Meggans is the reference to.
Blackadder, So you could do that and say, look, I was sick, but yeah, I just wanted to have some hearty food at my favorite cafe to make myself feel better and back off. Yep, what about I decided to go?
Of course, you know, if it's if it doesn't fit the remedy that you're putting to it, let's getting a little ridiculous. And I think the employee could challenge you on that.
Can you because you can take time off of stress? I guess can you? Can you take sakifa? Well not, I don't know.
It's people think out there and now I listen, folks in now here, you don't have the rights to take time off of stress. Leave. It's not automatic. If you go to your doctor and the doctor says, my goodness, you do need that time off, then yeah you can, and a lot of doctors will.
But then suddenly Garret flying to the Gold Coast might see as eroding that trust.
Well wouldn't it be.
I mean, if seriously, if you're stressed, and let's let's not say Gold Coast, let's not encourage any more. Australian tourism. Let's say you decide to fly down to Queenstown and somebody sees you down there and said, yeah, I've been really stressed and I went down to stay with some friends or because I need some time out. That's legitile. Actually that to me, I can convince myself that, well.
I'm always I used to get very very stressed. I don't do it so much now on a Monday morning after a big, long, long, long, long weekend, and then my heart would be pumping far to the normal because it's probably full of alcohol from the whole weekend trying to get over it. I've got a thumping headache. I'm not very happy and I'm stressed.
Is this Max talking or just to your imagining a particular scenario.
Max when he was younger?
Oh right, really, I've lived.
I've lived. Yes, good on you.
Hey, you can give us a call of if you'd like to pick Max's brain about that. It was a bit of a hijack of the topic because it came up in our medical hour with doctor John Cameron, just about medical stificates, and I thought, you know, we got you. It's a good one now because we're going to get onto having a bit of a chat about the Uber contractor versus employee case. But just firstly though, because this might not be such a lengthy topic, but.
I have.
There's been a bit of chat around in the employment in the recruiting space about AI and cvs and all that sort of stuff, and there's even been the question about whether cvs are really in use as much as they used to be, But they surely must still be there because if an employer doesn't know someone, you want a CV, don't you.
Yeah, And look, the good thing is like you can go on LinkedIn and generally if people are registered on LinkedIn, you can get their work history, which is really important. But there's two things of cvs now.
Is LinkedIn the pretty much the de facto default you beiquitous like the Facebook for cvs as it well, No.
The LinkedIn's just a really good tool for anyone to look at somebody's work history, to have a look at them as an individual, what they've achieved, what they've gone through. So if you want to build up your profile anywhere, use LinkedIn, folks, because it really is good because employers do look at them out there. Now. If you're not registered on there, a lot of people. Not then the employee doesn't get a glimpse. And you do need a CV. CV is really important if you're going to go for
a job. Now the CV, keep it minimal. Don't need to go for pages and pages and pages. How wonderful you are?
What if you are wonderful?
Though?
What if you've just got so many strings to your bow that you just have to you know, that's the thing. What do you leave and what you leave aout look?
I can just imagine yours. Yeah, from conducting an orchestra to been on this show, plus what you go law degree? It could go on.
Three sentences and that's all I know.
Oh you're a father, which must be even there more challenging.
Well, the reason I mentioned is because and I wonder if this is for I'd be curious to know what Christopher Luxon had on his CV right throughout his career but now on LinkedIn. If you have a look at his CV, he traces his whole employment history, which starts from I think he was a porter at the Crown
Plaza in christ Church. He was a part time flip burgers at McDonald's I think, And he lists the small jobs and you can trace his whole career up to when he was at Unilever, I think, and then Prime minister. But he puts everything in. But I'm curious to know whether when he was, say middle management or going for those Unilever jobs, whether he had the McDonald's in there or whether he shoved that back.
And I wouldn't put that in there. So the key to going to a CV is less is more, so you really just summarize it. Now with him, he would come with a reputation. Now, of course he did a little stint at the New Zealand you might remember that when you missed that one.
I think that's in there. Yeah, yeah, I think.
It would be. But you can imagine he would only mention the corporate jobs and his background.
Now there's too no, No, he didn't. He mentioned everything.
The CV should contain two things, your work history. Just don't go back to forever and ever because some old people like me, you'd full up pages of them. So you go back a little way now. Right now people are interested in his background because has he actually lived a life. If he's flip Burgers, well I would say that's excellent.
Well that's why I wonder whether he put that in when he went into politics. Of course it shows Oh so you reckon that when he was on the corporate ladder. Less relevant, it's an interesting one.
Yeah, if you've got to run an airline, you don't need to say off flip Burgers because that really doesn't spin the wheels for anyone making the decision to a point you over someone else.
It depends. So I had a job as a tourist guide when I was sixteen at Rainbow Springs and wrote a RUA and I guess if you're going for a job where you're communicating, would you put that in?
Ah?
Would you leave it out?
Particularly your job? Yeah? Yeah, you have to entertain these people. You actually have to encourage. Yeah, well you do and right now you do. So, I mean that would be relevant to what you do today. And the other thing I was going to say to people, you know, your CV is not the only tool. If you've got a job like teams and your applying, say for a radio show, well then you obviously need an audio or perhaps perhaps someone for TV. You want to have video. Now, Look,
videos are very important. So if you're going to brush up on anything, get your presentation skills good because a lot of people now are interviewed on zoom. So I've been talking to an HR person just in research for this and they said, Yep, a lot of them are zoomed in and zoomed out. Yep, we'd bring them in
or teams in her case. But yeah, so you really do need to get your skills right for that as well, and learn to be more sinc and give direct answers very quickly and succinctly and cover a lot of ground.
We'd love to hear from you, actually, what did you what did you leave out of your CV? What was it? What did you put in when you're putting together a CV for a job. Give us a call on O one hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'd love to hear from you. Here's just before we go to the break. Here's Luxeon's Christopher Luckxon's history and it goes right back to being a paper deliverer for the Howerck and Puck a ring of times okay in nineteen eighty two. Did that for a year by the look of it. Then
he was a staff member at McDonald's part time. Then he was a concierge and porter at the Park Royal don't worry. That was going forever. Then there's a whole bunch of things he did at UNILEVERA In fact, he lists one two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine ten, which starts at management trainee, to brand manager for a New Zealand, then to Australia and then to president and CEO and for Canada at Unilever, and then he goes
in New Zealand. But he starts. I just thought it was interesting that he starts with paper deliverer for the Howard can Packer rang oft times and staff members.
See. I like that, I really really like that. Well, see, I would say there's a real man who's experienced a bit of real life. Too often I see people at the top who really have no understanding or understand or perhaps even feelings for people at the bottom.
So do we like that in his CV? I do, But so we don't leave that out.
No, no, But for that job he is prime minister.
Oh gotcha? Yeah.
Yeah. If I was looking to be the CEO of you know, in New Zealand, no, I wouldn't be interested.
Well, I mean you might be slightly interested.
Two things I never got this out. Two things you've got to get is your work experience and also your achievements very important? In your achievements, what have you chieved? And you're going to be able to support that?
Yeah, okay, look we want your cause as well. I one hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine nine two What would you leave in or out of your CV? And actually would you trust AI to generate your CV because they say apparently that they can tell when a CV is AI generator.
I would no doubt.
I'm not sure they could actually, but it depends. If you've just said, make me a CV, then maybe they can.
But it's very clever. I mean, I use it quite a lot, but actually make me a CV. Yeah, but for goodness sake, checks them folks, because it's they have impurities right through.
Yeah. I mean, if you actually tell you what AI is really good for, you just say this is my CV. You do it all yourself, and you'd say, just tidy this up for clarity and spell it's amazing and it is not too bad, so anyway, and then change the formatting so people don't say I recognize that formatting from chat GPT anyway. Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty What do you leave in or what do you take
out of your CV? Or do you leave it all in there and tell them exactly how many bottles of milk you delivered in your suburban milk round for three years when you're a teenager. It's twenty four past five. News Talk ZIB. Yes, News Talk z B. It is indeed on with Max Whitehead is an employment guru and we're talking about CV. What are you leaving? What do you take out? Or do you just shove it all in there and let them work it out for themselves.
I guess that's not the answer. No, But anyway, let's take some calls.
Matthew Hi, Hello, Matthew.
Hi there.
I had a question about would you on a CV would you put your references details on that CV if you've given them a heads up? Or would you write referees available on request?
Oh? An interesting question. I think it's a point of view of what you would think. I think I put it on request. You can come back to me and I will give you those referees and plus then you can give them a heads up. Someone's coming after you to ask you some questions. It just gives you some degree of control and I think that would be better for you.
Yeah, yeah, I've I've just moved to that and sometimes I just if you're in a job a long time, sometimes the old references are kind of long gone, especially as a super much or something. I was wondering, what do you what do you look for with a work reference, Like, what would an employer want to they want to speak to? Essentially two things they Yeah, they're chipping in for you, aren't they.
Yeah. Two things they look for is a work experience and you know what level of work you've done and sort of who you've done and work with. You know who's been your previous employer. And the other thing is what have you achieved while you were there, because they're going to measure you up to say is this person innovative or are they going to follow the rules or are they going to go off and be a loan
you know, lone wolf. So there's a lot of things in there that they'll try and read in between the lines. So my view is keep it short and sweet, but certainly make sure you tick both those boxes.
Actually, Matthew, there's a difference between references and referees because the references are the people who you've worked for but referees might be I don't know your coach from your sporting team or some mentor do you is a sort of job where you need a referee as well, because that's more about your personal character and everything.
I think I did actually mean, I mean like we're like, yeah, so I've got my former boss, so not my current boss, but I've got my former boss.
I had a long stint there and we're kind of friends, and you know, probably had the most longevity in that workplace, and I'm the most proud of it. So he's he's there and he'll he'll be perfect. So it's kind of like a bit of a wrap around. I don't know if I should use the current one sometimes because you know you're ditching them. They might not be happy about it, especially in this you know, you never know way, so.
If anyone's interested in you, they want to get somebody from your local one. But you certainly keep that other guy and he'd be perfect, you know, the one you just said you had a good relationship with him, like friends. He'll speak very well of you. I'm sure the current one. Look, they probably will be asking for someone, so keep keep an ear at for someone who's going to look after you and make sure you're find.
What sort of work is it? What sort of what sort of industry?
I'm not really looking to leave my job necessarily.
Know what type of jobs? Are we talking though? What's what's your what's your what's your bag?
Are you a carpenter or are you working a supermarket or.
Doctor or so?
I used to work at a rural lodge at Sonana Lake Road a Weedy, A beautiful lodge up there in hospitality. So I was working there in the National Park essentially, it's it's the main hotel up there, so you're basically a hotel worker. And I did a bit of everything up there, like housekeeper, gardening, laundry, that kind of work.
That sounds like, sounds like a lovely spot. It's is it quite flash is it?
It's an old lodge, but it's well run, great service. So that's in yeah, Lake Road of Weedy, which is like you know the Nelson Nelson Lakes.
You got it, yeah, Matthew. So what you rattled off to me just quickly then was really ideal. So if you could say I was more of a I did a whole lot of range of duties and jobs and that, and you just mentioned three of them for example. I think that would really sell you. Well, so you've you've really had experience on a wide space spad and I think people would be interested to hear that.
Yeah. Nice, thanks, thanks, cool. Yeah, yeah, lovely spot too. By the way, I've just googled the Yeah. Like, I just I like, it's like a mental holiday. You just click on, I have a look at a few pecks and then hey, maybe one day hang on, let me just check the time. It is twenty seven and a half minutes to sex as we say, good afternoon, Emma, Hello, Hello, Emma.
Hello, Hello, Hi. Hey, I just wanted some advice that sort of a challenge that myself as a parent returning to work several times I have three children, but also a lot of my friends face and that you know, I've worked hard to build my career. I worked for twenty years. I'm got at what I do, but kind of taking a bit more of a lead role in my family. I only need well, I can only do, say, thirty two hours a week, and what I find feedback
I get from a lot of the roles. But I don't really want to go into a big role because I don't have the capacity right now, but I'm still very very able to add value. People will say, oh, you're too senior for the roles or you'd get bored, and it's like, I don't know how we get ahead of that narrative because I want to be able to add value. I can. I don't want to take your job. I've got thirty two hours. How do we make parents seem like an attractive proposition for employers?
That's a big question here.
Because it's common. I understand what you're saying in here because I've heard that before, and I think there is.
Some reality real cop out when they say you're too senior, Like I don't what are they really saying? The scared you're going to take our job?
Let me give it to you from their perspective, because you put somebody in the role who's way over qualified or experienced too more, they get bored very very quickly and get very disruptive. In the end.
I think they're worried that you're just going to be temporary. That would be at Emma. I think they think you're going to get in there and look, you're sure you want the job now. Over the six months you're going to disappear. Well, really, I know I'm not saying that I'm buying your story, but.
I'm just I've got my twenty year career in marketing, working in great roles and value. How do we keep me in the leadership pipeline?
You know?
If I say to you this is what I need, you know and I you know I'm not this whole I'm going to get bored and be disruptive. No me a parent that gets bored and disruptive working people.
I reckon to acquire.
Hey, I don't worry.
I reckon you should be self employed. You do sound motivated. You do sound someone who will use their renovated and look, you already know that. Why wide experience your head's going to be helpful? Why did you get going and put another approach them? Would you like to outsource your marketing sources?
So?
Where are you at?
What sort of work are you?
So?
Where are you at? And the job?
I mean?
Well I do, actually I actually am employed at the moment. But I wanted to answer the question because so many of my friends faces and if we really want to encourage equity in leadership, where you're going to have to get our heads around how we retain women, particularly when if that you know, it's sixty hours of work a week unpaid at home if you have children, right, I.
Know how you find the time with three children carry a job as well?
You know, you know, if you have a partner, that should be a lot easier. But if they have a demanding job, this stuff is really tough, tough, you know, And I just think if women feel like it's not worth going back to work, particularly senior professional woman who are actually the ones that are going to change the system, nothing's going to change.
Hey.
By the way, when you say thirty two hours a week, would that be four days a week or sort of five days, Well.
That's still a big week, totally, totally. And also but also like if you are working in the system that's based on forty hours a week, if you really want to better fit into that system, thirty two is the minimum you're going to be able to work, really because to meet meetings and expectations for.
People, if you're efficient, you have forty hours done in thirty two, I imagine.
Well yeah, I mean, as you guys will know, parents do. But we still get paid eighty percent of the salary but that's also broken anyway.
Okay, that's no good on you. No, I'm glad you've thrown that into the into the Mexican em you.
Plus, you've got a powerful personality. I think I would worry employees. I think you're not going to tolerate You're not going to tolerate shiit. You're going to have just what you're.
Saying to me that that's actually an advantage but also a massive disadvantage.
Yes, yes, we're running with the hairs on, hunting at the hounds, right. I mean that's you know, that's life, hasn't it. She is, I mean often strengths and weaknesses and vice versa. Yes, I think I recognized him as voice. Actually I think she is. She's got a few things going, but she's a very powerful advocate for working mums getting on.
The strengthen her. You can tell that she's got She would be very, very capable. I reckon she'd be able to sell herself to do the marketing sources for anything. And look at New Zealand businesses, Ninety seven percent of them are very small, less than twenty people, So she she'd fit in just perfectly to market some of them for.
Them absolutely, Hey, I think we need to take a moment and come back after the break. Tarmody has next. We've got a few texts to get onto as well. And eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number if you're listening about that, if you've just joined, and you'll be like, what are they talking about? The original? The origin of the conversation is actually about CVS. What
are you sticking and what do you leave out? Which may be the leaving out sometimes can be more important because you don't want to bore them with every tiny little job you've done, or do you depending on what the relevance is. It's twenty two minutes to six. Anyway, welcome back to the show. I don't know why I said anyways, because I was chatting with Max Bradford. Bradford you sold that seed, Max, you said sometimes you can
refuse money. White Head, Max Whitehead from the white Head group you because we're just chatting about.
A probably listening in going no I'm associateuling.
Oh no, no, no, no no. We were just talking about ABBA, weren't we. And yep, I still look at those videos from I had a huge crush on Agneta when I was probably about six years old. But there we go.
She's a little old greedy. Now are you still doing it right?
Let's let's take it by the way we need to talk about we'll touch on the Uber thing. In fact, let's do that. Now we can come back to some texts about cvs and things like that. But that ruling about Uber who ruled that these particular contractors were employees, has now had this repercussion that can anyone be a contractor or are you going to be designated to be an employee? What do we know about that Uber case that basically said that people who Uber wanted to be
deal with US contractors suddenly their employees. They have to give them leave all that sort of thing and your leave entitlements and stuff. What do we know about that case and what it means for contractors generally?
Right? Good question, because I've really studied this decision because I think it's got huge ramifications for New Zealand as a whole. I tell you why, Tim, because most of New Zealand is a contractors now, and I'd say we're a nation of contractors really, and look that's what Uber drivers are, They're contractors. So what that means is that they were well, these Uber drivers were free to work only when they wanted to and as long as they wanted to. They didn't have there was no compulsion, so
they had a lot of freedoms. And they bought the car that they wanted to buy and they could use it, but they had to maintain it, so they had those freedom as well. But the decision still is that they are an employee.
Was it because these particular contractors were just having a little bit too much put on them by the company in terms of expectations, And that's why the facts were just two And it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who's working for Uber is suddenly going to be an employee.
Order the Uber company had total control over their renuneration. They had total control over how much each customer's charged, so they two a lot of controls. Yeah, a lot of controls. So that was part one of the tests provided. But the Court of Appeal did not like what the employment court had said. They said, no, you've got all that wrong and this wrong and that wrong. So I've given us a very good steer in terms of what constitutes now getting back to your original.
Good for employment. Lawyers isn't it.
Absolutely there's going to be the Already nine hundred Uber drivers have got a claim when the Employment Authority for back pay six hundred six years, they can go back six years of pay, nine hundred of them.
How many employers or companies are going to be nervous about anyone who's working as a contractor exactly?
Well, I would say most of New Zealand, bigger companies, particularly government departments have contractors in there. Now. I mean, there's a distinction to be made, but it's really difficult, and you're dead right to what you said. Employment lawyers and advocates are going to make a field dais the Employment authority are going to be choking full of applications right now?
Ah? It sounds to me like that if the courts, if this is seen as I don't know, the problem is, you know what you read in the media, People go all these four employees have been found to be contractors, have been found to be employees. It doesn't necessarily follow that on the facts, everyone else who's a contractor for Uber is going to be designated to be an employee
because the circumstances might be different. But it makes everyone nervous so therefore is this one of those things where well, you can't wait for another case necessary in front of the Court of Appeal where the government might step and then say, OK, we're going to issue some clarity around us so they can maybe still support the uber thing. Up to appointment spell out more clearly why everyone doesn't need to be petrified that every contractor is now an employement.
The minister has already said that. She said even the beginning of this year she's going to clarify the definition of what constitutes an employee and in a contractor.
That's Brook van Veldeen. Yes, it is say that she's doing work on that, but we do have a stair as to how they're going to define that. Because they don't want to do anything radical, they've just got to try and say, listen, let's not frighten the horses. This is what a contractor is and these are the factors that are going to overstep that mark into employee that.
She hasn't given us a hint. Also, knowing her politics as we do, you've had David Seymour on her, that's her leader. You know that she is really supportive of businesses and productivities for new Zealand, which I think that's what we do need to focus on with regards to this decision. So section six of the Employment Relations Act that defines what an employee is, and I think you'll find that she is going to be focused on that.
And what's at the moment.
That's what the Court of Appeal have actually defined and says well, Uber drivers, and.
Look section six of the what some people look ups Act. Okay, okay, I'll have a look of mine time.
No, it's it is interesting, but it doesn't tell you. You see, they need to still apply the rules. And look, the rules that they apply applies to all Uber drivers, so I don't think there's going to be any difference. So nine hundred Uber drivers now have a very very strong case to get six years of back pain.
And here's the thing. If you see, there'll be smaller employers who have who have engagements with contractors where they might be a little nervous and you could be sympathetic to them. But no one's going to be really sympathetic to this monster machine called Uber, are they. That's and that's where I.
Think you're going to They're going to pack their bags and get the hell out of here And look, I worked at ADHP which is hospital here and a huge proportion of their staff for contractors. And I was the employment relations manager for Auckland Council and there was a massive number of people employed by Draken those days, which is now by another organization. And I'd say thousands and thousands of people that are contractors been there for six
years doing forty hours a week. They'll fall into the same.
Well, to be fair, if they've been in the same job for years, then Bengo, the person who's contract with them has probably got an issue.
I wouldn't mind mimby. The police have all employment law have got hundreds, if not thousands of people there on contract. Lots of government departments have. They're worse at it than anybody.
Okay, so Brook van Velden will be doing her homework stringently, won't she right?
Well? And she I think hopefully she's aware that it's going to affect a huge part of the whole nation here. Our economy will be really leveraged off this.
We might have to have a chat with her on politics or such.
Well, I know you, and so that's why I'm laying this on you.
Sewing the seed with My producer's probably taking notes right now. Right, let's tell you what. We're going to come back with
a few more text just about the CV thing. But if you want to have your comments around, if you're in a situation as a contractor where you've been expected to turn up for the same time, same number of hours, forty hours a week, et cetera, and you're being designated a contractor, are you going to be suddenly having a chat with your employee your contract door and seeing if you can be designated as an employee because it's payday
time for you. If that's the case, eleven minutes to Sex News Talks, he'd be hey, so welcome back to the show. I tell you what. My producer, Tyra, who is in her twenties, has remarkably sort of I wouldn't say middle aged taste because that makes it sound crusty, but she's got sort of mature tastes of music. Max. We've had a bit of Billy Joel, We've had some Abba, We've got Elton John, Jimmy Barnes.
Actually good stuff.
Isn't Cold Chisel coming back for tour? I can't. I think I saw Cold Chisel. We're coming back. I think that lead singer was Jimmy Barr. It wasn't he anyway? Completely unrelated Max, Let's do some texts, Max Whitehead, should I say so embarrassed I call you the wrong name before?
Sorry?
Okay, here's some texts on the just in the employment front. Hi, I'm a full time employee. I'm currently sixty four professional, love my job. Can I continue working after I'm sixty five? Or or my employer got the right people? Anyway? Can you be forced to retire sixty?
Foe answers no, thanks absolutely not no, because it's just the superin of age. But if you're making you know, you're making mistakes at work and those sort of things, and you're slipping, you could be forced to retire, but not for age. They cannot discriminate against you.
That actually came up when I noticed that Chris Sepkins, when I was chatting to him in our politics are he talked about he I thought he was being sixty four, but he distinctively drew a distinction. He says, no, no, no, we don't have a retirement age. We have a superannuation age. And I actually thought that from many people, that's probably an interesting evlation where we just assume you have to
retire sixty five. But all it is, it's an age of entitlement where you can get the super but it doesn't mean anything beyond that if you want to continue working.
Oh, we had a couple of pilots here that worked for another company not in New Zealand, and then they were under their rules and were made told to stand out at sixty I think it was, and they fought it based on New Zealand law and they won it. Well.
Last night I hosted these awards for Saint Kent's for some former students who'd done amazing things with their lives, and one of them was Dr Peter Ring, who is an ophthalmologist and Pete's and Peter isn't as Pete, I don't call himte. Peter is in his seventies and he's still practicing wow ophthalmology and he's still right into it. And why wouldn't you.
Be if you're functioning well, why not? I totally agree if the young people couldn't find work, but there's work out there. But if somebody's really functioning well, hang on to them, putting them in place.
Where do you think you'll retire. I have no idea how odd you are, Max, and I don't expect you to end it up right now.
Winston Peters, Oh well, he's functioning as a politician. He's one of the cleverest one with he's the Cunnings. I'm not a big fan, but I mean I've got to say he shows them up every time.
He's an interesting cup of tea, isn't he? Because of his age, I mean sometimes he can really annoy you and other times you go, thank goodness for Winston. He really is quite a wily old.
Again Biden who should have resigned because he is resigning because of his age, and of course that other I want to be president and there he's may come back. He's nearly going to be what seventy.
Oh yeah, he's the old one in the equation now.
Trump, so we've got a few old he's out there right now. Maybe I could make prime minister one day or president of New Zealand.
Well, yes, well you've left the run.
Did that was offensive? But what?
Okay? Anyway, he guess what that You know what that really is?
You don't you shut me down?
Know that it's we got thirty seconds to go, So it's time to sacod bye Max. So for people want to catch up with you, I eight hundred twenty four to seven ninety three ninety three.
We got it.
Folks, there is I eight one hundred and twenty four seven ninety three ninety three or I eight hundred something.
As you want to get hold of me, do that.
And thanks to my producer Tyra well Tira, thank you great music today. Some of the texts loved your music as well. Tyra. See we're winning and we'll catch you same time for the Weekend Collective next week Sunday at six is next. Stick around for that. Have a great evening.
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News Talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio