You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Yesperon. Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage and thanks for your feedback on politics. By the way, if you've missed any of the hours you want to catch them, go to iHeartRadio and look for the Weekend Collective and we get our podcasts sections loaded as soon
as we can after the show has finished. By the way, just looking forward to the final hour of the show from father o'clock, it will be our final session with the folk from Harbor Asset Management talking about the changes that are being made to Key we Saver that they can invest more in private asset investments, which sounds sort of like sounds harmless enough, doesn't it. But we're gonna have a chat with Shane Sley about that after five o'clock and be taking your course. But right now we'd
love your calls. This is the Health Hub and we're talking about sleep and my guest is what is a regular guest on our show. He's a director of Sleep Well Clinic, and it's Alex bartle Gaday. Alex.
How are you going?
Good e ten? Good to see again? How are you sleeping these days, we're not so good in the hot weather. That does make it more difficult, that's for sure.
Do you actually I've said this to you before, of course, that the pressure. Do you ever lie there struggling to get to sleep and think, oh gosh, I'm the sleep doctor. I can't get to sleep. Everyone else might be. It must be started.
It has happened, and I know sort of what to do. I don't always do it, but I know, I mean, I know what I should be doing. Yeah, and it's actually not a few nights ago, I was getting into a bit of a situation. It was getting to one o'clock in the morning, and I sell and he was taking in that tingly bit. You know, I think I really need to go to sleep, and fortunately I fell asleep very quickly, now, you know, getting up fifteen minutes out of bed, reset back into bed. It's really works
very well for me. If I've got something on my mind.
Yeah, what about the heat. How are you coping with the heat?
Yeah?
Right, I mean keeping windows open, barring your fan out of the hot or hot air side of the house, so you draw air in from the cool side of the house.
Yeah, because sometimes that's an idea for I mean, actually we just have the fan on us circular, which gives a sense, and luckily we've got one. It's actually quite quiet and it's got about twenty eight speeds.
A bit of white noise. Of course, this doesn't matter. That's possibly a bit helpful as.
Well, as long as it doesn't go clunk clunk, clunk, cluk cluk. I think that's the problem with ceiling fans. Actually they doesn't take long before they start rattling away, isn't it true? So yeah, that's right. The thing with a fan to keep your house cool is actually not too it's actually when ours get used to get really hot. In the days before we renovated and got it properly insulated, I used to point a fan out the window of the hot room so it would suck air and from
the cool side of the house. That's exactly right, which doesn't feel, you know, lostical.
But if you think about it, it makes sense.
I mean.
The other thing, the main thing is if it's a hot day like this, close your jolly curtains in your bedroom at sort of this time of afternoon so that the bedroom doesn't heat up too much. Now, so closing the curtains is a really good move.
At what temperature? What are the temperatures that are hard to sleep at? And what temperature should you because some people will be lucky enough they've got a conditioning. Yeah, yeah, and you wouldn't want to overdo that either.
The word is sixteen to eighteen degrees. Maybe up to twenty degrees is okay. Once you started getting excuse me above for twenty three twenty four, it starts to become And of course if you're in America often they have their motilions and what have you, and the hotels at that sort of temperature anyway, so they do keep it very warm, too warm.
Yeah, what about getting a custom talk because imagine people who live in Singapore, remember the days before econditioning, people must have got acclimatized to sleeping in warmer temperatures. How much do our bodies actually get acclimatized. Because where I'm going with this is that I wonder if there's a case for actually letting yourself get a little bit of climatized because the body can adapt.
You can absolutely true.
Yeah.
I worked in New Guinea for a while and the only air conditioning we had was in the outpatients part where I was working and where my billit was only had a fan. And I can tell you the people who worked actually in the hospital that had air conditioning fared much worse than I did. After about two months, I got quite used to the heat.
Two months. So it sounds like a tough two months.
It does help to climatator. You just sweat more.
Initially, I think, yeah, we'd like your calls on this, if any questions you've got around getting to sleep, and of course we've got some particular issues we like to chat about, just to give a focus for the conversation with Alex Bartell from sleep Well Clinic. But you can give us a call anytime from now eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. You can text on nine to nine
to two. Actually, there is something we were discussing before the show outs about what you've been doing some work on, right, and that is it's something that always sounds like it's not to be taken seriously. The first time a caller called in with this problem, I was like, oh, this sounds a bit weird, but you had been doing a bit of work on restless leg syndrome.
Yeah, it certainly is a huge problem for a lot of people, about ten percent of the adult population or the population generally, because children get it too. I can have this condition. It's largely genetic. It's a brain thing, so it's thought to be and there's much more complicated than this, but the basis is that it's low brain iron that leads to low dopamine levels and that results in this funny leg problem.
Low brain iron, yeah.
Rather than serumone. Serumone is what you measure when you take blood sample. Yeah, you don't take brain iron. But then when they've done autopsis on people who have had terrible restless syndrome, you find that the iron content in the brain is lower than it should be.
And there's something that they've actually there's a name for restless leg syndrome, so it sounds like it's something to be taken more seriously, right.
Absolutely, they call it Willis eck bomb disorder because willis in there's a medical thing a circle of Willis after the name of a think He was a seventeenth century physician who first described and the eck bomb is a Danish physician who described it very actually in ninety forty five. So they thought, just give it a serious name because it does upset a lot of people. People commit suicide because of.
So what wow? So what do I mean? You haven't got it? I'm guessing. I'm guessing. So how do you understand it feels? For people? From my wife gets it.
Sometimes when it's mild, it tends to come and go. You might have you know, a few days or nights with it, and then it comes on in the evening or a few stationaries on a flight. Particularly if you see someone walking up and down the aisle on a flight to Sydney, you know they've goddresses syndrome because they can't sit still. They need to move their legs. You know, it comes on in the evening.
Is that a pain? Or restlessly?
Is exactly that? So it's a trickling, prickling electric sort of needles type of thing that moves makes you want to move your legs and moving it gets rid of it, but of course soon as you stop again, it comes back again. So it's a you know, people have to just keep on walking around and they can't get rid of the jolly thing.
Does panadol or eurofinel.
Now, unfortunately, the traditional treatments for it that's been used for the last two decades. It's very very effective, initially fantastically effective initially is now almost banned because it's creating what they call tolerance. In other words, you need more and more of it and a thick conditional augmentation, which is when you need not only it gets worse, but the condition itself gets worse, and so you're creating a problem.
One of these, well, the dopamine agonists's things like rope pin role, promo pixel, those are the two main mons or a penrole is probably the most commonly one used in New Zealand. It's fantastic. It works like a miracle, but then it starts not to work, and it can be ten to fifteen years later that it starts to develop that then you're stuck with it. You're needing more and more of the drug, that the condition is getting worse and worse. You've got to try and withdraw from it.
And it's not easy because it's funny. It's strange that that's not funny. Nothing's funny about it.
But how when we first had our conversations about sleep, to me, you know, to the average person, unless you've got maybe the odd problem you snore, You've got a bit of steamer. But it seems that sleep generally should be so natural and easy, and yet as you get a little bit older, it's to me actually the psychology, because I'm quite aware of when I do different hours, the psychology of getting to sleep. I literally it's almost
a meditative state. I've got to get myself into because I'm if I'm ticking over thinking of X, Y and Z. I've got to find a way of going how in a minute, where's that? And I know when I find it. But then I become aware of when I'm in that sleep zone and I wake myself up again. You know, I'm like, oh, yes, this is good. I'm getting into that space. Don't think about I thought about it again.
I hear that all the time. I basically, you have to allow yourself to go to sleep. You can't make yourself go to sleep. So I must go to sleep. I'm got a busy day tomorrow. Must go to It could just make you worse. You have to calm yourself down so that brain doesn't get in the way of this automatic process that says head down sleep. You have
to allow yourself and often that requires confidence. Sleep really is a lot about confidence that people who go to bed and go to sleep, they don't even think about it. You know, when you're a teenager, you probably just put your head down and went to sleep.
Oh and I'm on the couch at seven thirty pm at night. I can go to sleep at the drop of the half. I've dinner. It's like, you know, just fly sort of thing. If only someone could pick me up right, I'd be through to nine. So we'd love your calls. I wait one hundred and eighty ten eighty if there are any issues you've got with sleep and we're going to cover a range of things. My guest is Alex Bartel, and he as a director of Sleepweld client. By the way, where do people how do people get
in touch with you? Apart from just googling Sleepworld clinic.
Yeah, there's probably sleep well clinic dot got on in Z eight hundred two two seventy five three three.
So what is the most common thing that people generally see you for?
Sleep out, snoring and sleep out near Yeah, And second is insomnia.
Yeah.
And then there are these other odds andes which are fascinating sleepwalking, night terrors, eating in the middle of the night, all sorts.
Of eating in the middle of the night, eating what while you're asleep?
Yeap?
What so getting up and going raiding the fridge and not knowing you've done it.
Yep.
It's called sleep related eating disorder. And they don't know about it. They're in non ram they're in a sleepwalking mode. So they get up and they go and read the fridge and they go back. So they wake in the morning and sink, oh god, I'll be netted again, you know. And they've got chocolate bars soften and chocolate biscuits. But I've had one person who has put marmite on a steak and they tried to eat it. Another person who
tried to eat the cat food. So they know them what to eat, and they know where the fridge is and they can do that. But the exactly what there is, oh my goodness. But usually it's chocolate biscuits or cake or something.
Mama's on a steak does sound like something where you have to run past al brown? Is there something in that? It does sound strangely like it might sort of work and quite I don't know in somnia then, so what's the is are there? Well? I think I know the answer this question that there are sometimes a physiological reason why people have insomnia. It's not just the fact that their job's bothering them and that they can't switch off and they are things on their mind.
Well, there are two things, I mean in so many of The other word for insbody, which I always think is helpful for a lot of patients to come in, is hyper arousal disorder. So it's a buzzy brain basically, and they're just either wake in the middle of the night and they can't go actually because their mind starts racing, or it's it happens when they go to bed. And as I say, exactly the description you gave was right. You go to bed, your line there reading a book.
You think I can go to sleep. Now you put the book down and a ping on goes your brain instead of bang goes to sleep. So this think you know, I'm trying to go to sleep doesn't work. You have to lay yourself.
Actually, there are I imagine this is just from my I think I've become more aware of thinking about how I get to sleep, and it's all your bloody faults. But you're probably the reason that sometimes I don't get to sleep because I think, I think Alex would say this and oh no, I'm thinking about it.
Go again.
But I have I do have one little trigger that helps me get to sleep that i've I only use it sparingly, like because you have discussed on this show not wearing a watch, right, Yes, and I do wear a watch when I go to bed, and it's it's you know, it's got one where the dials blow and if I wake up sometimes I will check it, but it's like it's I keep it in reserve because the signal I give my brain when I really want to go to sleep if I wake up in the middle of the night, as I take my watch off and
I put it on the floor, and somehow that knowing that that watch is not going to be there for me to is my superpower. But I always sleep with it on if I get a good night's sleep. But every now and again I take it off, and somehow it just tells my brain, you know, the watchers on the floor. You don't have to worry about it any longer. You don't have to worry about the time. Who cares go to sleep?
The reality is it doesn't matter what the time is when you wake. Everybody wakes at night virtually, so waking is actually a very normal thing to do. Most people go back to sleep so quickly, within two or three minutes, and have no recall they've worken. So waking up is normal, and so basically it's but if you wake up and then look at the clock, it often has that emotional impact on you. Oh no, it's one o'clock. I'm awake. I shouldn't be. Yes, you should go back to sleep.
Stop fretting about it. But the problem I look at the I've got o'clock by my bed, and I can look at it and say, oh great, it's one o'clock. I've had two hours sleep. That's fantastic. Or it's five o'clock. Oh I've got another hour to goo. That's brilliant. So I can go back to sleep easily. So some people doesn't like me. It doesn't bother me to look at the clock, but a lot of people it does bother and just getting rid of the clock is often the number one thing we are people to do.
Okay, we'd love your calls eight hundred eighty, ten and eighty If you're having a trouble getting a decent night sleep. If you've got any anything you want to run by Alex Bartell and we'll take your calls eight hundred eighty ten and eighty text nine two nine two. It is coming up to twenty one past four news talks. He'd be.
Hang on the missile too.
I'm again to know you better, yes, Chrismas and as we trend and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. This sounds like a good song to get to slip too, actually, I must say, and that's suitable for the show because this is the health up of my guests. Dtor Alex Bartele is the director of the Sleepworld Clinic. We're taking your calls eight hundred and eight ten eighty any questions you've got around getting a good night's sleep, and we will. If you want to jump
on the blower, you'll be first in the queue. But we've got a few texts here to get to Alex. So let's get into this one. Hey, boys, love the show. We're winning already. Here we go, just on my way for my third night shift in a row as a firefighter, and here we go. The first two have been horrendous for running around town all night and not being able to sleep in the daytime. How long do you think it takes to recover from a couple a couple of full nights sleep or shifts. I guess he's saying, yeah.
I mean, in the past, we'd used to teach that two full nights of sleep eight hours eight nine hours of sleep will recover any form of sleep debt that you might have accrued. It's not thought that now we know that it's probably going to take six to seven days to actually get over that if you want to, which means, you know, if you're back on shift again, then it really doesn't give you enough time to recover.
But you know, allowing yourself to settle and as soon as you come home, just not trying to get straight into bed necessarily if you're not still wired from a you've been racing around, dealing with the accidents, and so just allowing yourself to calm down a little bit, making sure you get into a cool You've got a cool environment that you come home to, curtains drawn, lights down,
so prepare yourself. You can have a snack when you get home, but keeping it cool and dark, and just trying to allow yourself to just calm down a bit, but give yourself a bit of space. Don't think I need to go straight to bed and go straight.
To say because I mean, as I've shared, I do a couple of shifts. But the people I really think about, people who working in the health system, who do ten or twelve hour shifts and then they I'm not sure exactly how it works because they're not always on night shift and they're not always on day shift. It's sort of but that does sound to me to be pretty punishing sort of schedule, doesn't that.
I'm not sure what this caller what a shifts is, but a lot of the file servers to twelve hour shifts. They do two nights, two days for off.
See.
Actually, if you're going to do shift work, it's probably not a bad shift pattern.
I think they can sleep at the station too.
They have clearly this die together, and they're often pretty horrific things they're dealing with too, so it can be quite emotionally challenging to come home after one of those events.
MM, and here's another one here. So are we offering advice on that, No, we're just saying how long it takes? So, yeah, six or seven days, so it is problematic. I've always had the theory with my shifts, if I sleep a bit before the shift and a bit after that, it averages out. But to be honest, it, you know, still still has its moments and been a bit of a struggle. Okay, here's one says bottle. Oh okay, here we go, bottle of wine and two zopper clone, zopper plane zoppolar caine.
What's the word zopper clone? Okay, out for eight hours? Been doing it for twenty years. I don't think we want to prescribe that that would Normally that would worry you a bit, wouldn't it.
It would?
Yeah, I mean certainly it's going to knock you out. There's no question. Alcohol is very sedative, and zopper clone, added tod it is going to make you more sedative. But quality of sleep will be awful. You'll probably be gnoring like a trooper. And because you and the actual sleep quality, you're not getting any of the proper sleep cycles that you should be having. So, you know, twenty years you obviously started when you're a young person. Do it for another ten years and I think you'll start
to regret it. So it's not ideal.
Well, I mean that's that's main which is worse than zopper clone or the wine. I'm going to go with the bottle of wine alcohol.
Yes, I mean that's part of the problem. It's not going to very relatively safe medication. In fact, it's just that it is so jolly good for many people that people get a bit hooked on it. That's the downside, and then it starts not to work, of course, as with most of the sleeping medications, but it's pretty safe. I'lohol or not.
I've got a mildly mischievous question, and because of the time start of the show, I'm going to ask it in a polite way. But sometimes when you know, when couples have a nice time together, yes, that can can lead to a good night's sleep, quality hugs and cuddles and all that sort of thing. Is there something that are just to be said for quality nookie before sleep time?
Yes?
And why is that?
Well, physiologically it is to do with the love hormone. I guess we call it oxytocin, and oxytocin particularly with the organism, tends to release oxytocin and then that's very relaxing hormone. So you're very likely to sleep better.
Oxytocin sounds like something you could get prescribed, doesn't it.
I don't. I'm sure they're working on it.
Well actually, well, I guess just because it's a chemical and we must know what oxytocin has made. Of course, they've got a name of which which the name must be reflective of some of the compounds that are in it.
Absolutely so. I don't know whether it's artificially made or not.
I don't know what other sort of things is it a sense of is it simply just Oxytocin can be generated by other things, like a sense of satisfaction having had a great day or something, and you're feeling.
Like, yes, absolutely so. I mean it is a but it's particularly skin contact cuddles that something are particularly powerful for producing oxytocin.
Okay, so that that's even why if you know, when if you're just having a hug, and you know, if your kids are having trouble sleeping in the end and they just want you to lie next to them and they just snuggle up, then that helps them because and that clicks in that sort of is it a hormone.
Or a hormone?
Yes?
Yeah, Actually that is quite Actually that's interesting to know, actually that because I think a lot of the time, especially on a hot nights, to be honest, nobody wants to hug all it. You know, you don't want to get it. Keep away from me, it's stinking hot. But then you're you're depriving yourself of the oxytocin.
Well except for you. You know, if you stay too close together, then you are going to sweat like anything, and it's not going to help you sleep. So yes, move apart if you're very hot.
Okay, I've got I'm not sure if you're going to have an opinion on this one, but I'm going to run it up the flagpole because those people listening also might have an opinion on this. This person, Alvin says tilting the bed, didn't say which way is going to tilt it, of course, and body orientation north south. And lastly, blue light from led screens. I'm thinking he means avoid the blue light from the laid screen. Yes, ah, Actually I have heard people do talk about oh, which way
is your bed facing? Is it facing east or west or all this sort of thing. And there's a part of me that thinks, you know, I mean, if a compass can react to the Earth's magnetic you sort of intuitively you think, surely the Earth's magnetic field and orientation, it effects of the moon, affects the tides and all these sorts of things, so that the homeopathic and beveragere doesn't really exist. If he did, that would be going, oh yeah, body direction has to have something to do with it.
Well, it's the old feng Shui idea, I think concept which has been going for thousands of years, and a lot of it. I mean, yes, you're quite right. I mean there's almost certainly some magnetic impacts on things, but it's so meniscal compared with if I'm stressed or if i've you know, things going into your household or whatever, that will take over. So yes, there's probably minor improvement. I think most of the minor improvement is that you
feel better about it. You know, I've been told that I'm going to sleep better if I have the bed put here by the window, or something. So yeah, so I'm more likely to see about forty percent of anything to do with sleep is placebo response, you know, and many of the things people got sleep on the bottle as long as you've got sleep on the bottle, it will help about forty percent of people go to sleep.
Actually, that's an interesting one because the placebo effect itself and they still I mean, there's still research going on as to how effective it is. But in a way, getting informed as to your medicine is in fact useless, is not very helpful because if there's a placebo effect that's possible, then it almost argues for the parts of your life that are best left or lived in ignorance, isn't it.
Well, yeah, I mean I guess that's right, because this thing that's pretty harmless is chemical or the thing you buy from the health shop is harmless, but it's helping me sleep, So why don't I use it? But I'd say, well, fine, if you need to use it, it's often quite expensive. But if you need to use it and you get to sleep, it's not to do you now go for it. That's fine, But there are other ways in which we could do without needing to use medication.
Because I was in a health food shop or with a friend and my friend was looking for some melatonin and I was thinking, how I don't think you can get melatonin in New Zealand. And anyway, the woman at the counter of the said, oh, yes, we have melotonin and went over to the homeopathic sort of thing and said and said, we've got it here. I thought, I didn't think you could sell it here. She said, oh, yes,
we can. And I said, thirty c does that mean that that's been sort of diluted one one hundred and thirty times? And she looked at me like i'd she looked at me like a broken wind in the shop. Actually, but I didn't want to ruin the party for my reason, for my friend who actually if they believed it was going to get a good night's sleep.
So right, yeah, but what can you do? I mean, basically, there are many other ways of having melatonin in our bodies apart from taking it by tablets. And even the manufacturers of Cicadian, which is the two milligram slow release product, which is you can buy on the script here, you can get on script even they said it really made very little difference or no difference to all under fifty five year olds, so it's actually only designed for older people.
So that's melatonin.
Yeah, melotonin.
Why wouldn't it make any difference for younger people.
Because we've got so much melotone in ourselves. And you know if you have some meltone at night and then you reading your iPhone or something, you immediately destroying the melotone in anyway. And also it goes into your gut, has to go first pass through the liver, goes into your bloodstream, then crosses a blood brain barry into your brain. You need it in your brain. H quickest way into your brain is through your eyes.
And we know how to get that. We're going to touch on that after the break, actually, because it's probably the most repeated bit of advice I've used from having a chat with you Alex on the show. I we eight one hundred eighty ten eighties. The number tixt nine two nine two will be back in just a moment. It's twenty five minutes to five news talks.
He'd be he sees you and your sleep then and in those when you're doing he knows that you've been fud so they're good for goodness.
That's welcome back to the wee Can Collective. This is the health AUP. My guests, doctor Alex Barber. We're talking about getting good good night's sleep, and a whole lot of them there's there's so many issues around it, Alex. I got lots of texts on this. By the way, if you want to jump the que of the text, you can give us a call on E one hundred and eighty ten eighty. Um. What about cramp? Is this text? What do you do? Yeah, cramp when you're sleeping, Alex.
Yeah, Well, cramps is different to the rest of SEK syndrome, so the two can often be mixed up. Cramp so it's a muscular spasm, of course, and the things that may help that. For example, magnesium is supposed to help that, so I would say that that's something worth trying, but it's often a assault type efficiency. Possibly. I know we're told to be careful of too much salt because of hypertension and medical issues, but perhaps a lack of salt is traditionally one of the things you need to make
sure you're having a little bit of. But magnesium is fine. But of course you can get magnesium in food stuff as well, So again I want, rather than taking medication as such, a having a good diet with some magnesium in it, like nuts and certain fruits. I'm not a nutritionist, but I know you can get it from food.
Now before the break, we're talking about malatone and how you naturally produce it, and that is the I've had a chat with my wife about this when we went for a walk, and because she would go with the dark glasses on, and I just sort of said, well don't. I'm quoting our sleep specialist that if you want to get a good night's sleep at night, it's melatonin and the way to get that is to generate serotonin by
exposing yourself to light, to take the shades off. Right, And there is something in that, doesn't it?
Absolutely yes, But it's not just bright shiny light. I mean that's not Our ancestors didn't know anything about glare, so we don't like glare.
Now what is clear then, Well, it's.
Things like tilt slab buildings and concrete slabs.
And urban environment. Urban environment not so much reflections of the sunlight off the sea.
Well, off the sea, I would wear protection older sunglasses. If you're skiing, i'd certainly wear sunglasses. Oh yeah, so it's all glary. But if you're going for a walk through the local park or gardens, you know it's shaded blue green light, which is our natural environment. And what our ancestors have been in for thousands of years. That blue green light hits your writtener has to hit your eyes. If you block the eyes with sets with sunglasses, then
it's not hitting you rerittener. Okay, so it's not skin. Skin is vitamin D, but it's eyes for serotonin. It goes into your brain. It's alter the size of your pupil one of the things it does, of course, and you know that you go outside, the pupils clamp down. If you go outside and put your Sonny's on. Of course, pupils just stay where they are. You've done it for them. So when you forget your son is, they're very slow at clamping down, which it needs.
Oh well, I'm really sensitive to light.
You've often created that problem by wearing sunnys all the time.
Well, the other thing is as well is that I mean, this is more of an eye thing. But if you find it hard to tolerate and tolerate just being out in the garden because you're wearing sunglasses all the time, you actually there is a you do lose your tolerance to bright light if you're always sticking such trades.
That's exactly right now, I'm not Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti sunglasses. I think yeah, particularly for people with making a degeneration, glaucoma, cataract, all those sort of medical things. But if you know, if you don't have those things, then when you're going for a walk through the local woodland and parks and what have you slip them off. Let that blue green light hit your retina.
It goes to the middle of the brain, suppresses melatonin, so it wakes us up, but also starts producing serotonin. And the more serotonin we produced in the day, the more melatonin it converts to at night.
There is something useful there for shift workers as well, isn't there, Because again, I mean relates to my own situation, but anyone is a shift worker. I imagine those When you get up, if the first thing you do, apart from having maybe a banana and a glass of water, is to go for a walk in the outside air, that sort of does help, doesn't it, because one that wakes you up, even if you're feeling a but CD.
Yeah, no, no, it's a good idea to get outside. Spending time outside is hugely important, and we do it very badly. Really at the moment. And as you know that, I mean if we travel overseas, you go to Sydney or go to Asia, you go on holiday, you spend more time outside. So we train quite a lot more quickly if we spend time outside than if we do
come home and spend med cooks. Going east is always going west is always much more difficult when you're traveling, sorry, going east is much more difficult.
So as soon as you say going east is much more difficult than going west, it makes me think of that whole sleeping direction thing again as well. Why is it easier to travel in one direction not the other?
Well, because the sunlight, the sun is traveling around. And so if you go to Perth, for example, which you say five hours delayed, then you go in to bed west going west. Heah, So if it's eleven o'clock in New Zealand, it's actually four o'clock in the morning there, so you're going to go straight to.
Sleep, all right, Yeah, okay, yeah.
If it's eleven o'clock in Perth, then it's actually only what is it six o'clock here?
And again, if you're flying to London, doesn't really matter whether you go east or west because you're on the other side of the it's the destinations pretty much totally intopodan, doesn't.
It absolutely, But spend time outside as we do when we go over size, we tend to spend time outside.
Okay, just before we go to our caller. There's a doozy of a question on text here which I've been meaning to ask. I'm not sure if I have yet, and it's come up a few times. In grounding mats
grounding sheets. I don't know if you've come across this, but it's it's it's about being connected to the earth, and so people have these sheets which can do the earth, which means that they put apparently there is something about the electromagnetic or something about the human body, and people use these grounding Do you know anything about grounding mats?
No, I know the mats that you use that have got lots of spikes or you know, nodules that you see lyon, and that seems to be quite helpful. Whether that's what they are, I'm not sure, but it would be the same sort of ideas of putting in the right direction, I guess. But being connected to us, I mean, I'm all in favor of that in terms of I was very skeptical about things like forest hugging and you know,
tree hugging and forest bathing. I'm really in favor of that. Now, why's that because it's you're in the right environment, blue green light.
Okay, yeah, no, I did. I do remember this now. I talked to it about it with John Cameron because there was a study on some medical journal thing and he put it in context that said, if they were really a thing, there'd be much more than one study that suggests that possibly something's happening. Yeah, so, but yeah, right, let's go to stew good E again.
Yeah, good right, Yeah, Hi, I'm wearing sunglasses most of my life. I'm on my mad sexties. I don't need glasses to read, whereas a lot of my peers do, in fact, even younger. But I do have problems sleeping. So is it because I'm wearing sunglasses.
Well, let's put it this way, if you were, if you didn't wear sunglasses during the day, you would produce more serotonin eur in the day, which would then convert to meltonia to help you sleep better at night. Your interesting point about your eyesight's very good, which is brilliant. I do worry about a lot of screen time for youngsters and how that may be impacting on eyesight for the future. That's not my field, but I've been interested.
I don't do that.
Well, you don't know.
That's not that, But you're saying that younger people do and their eyesight's failing. I don't know that it's to do with any do with sunglasses. I think it's more to do with just constant screen time, which you don's okay, all right, okay, all the.
People why age you're wearing glasses to read?
Maybe is that just genetics something?
I don't wear glasses for reading or driving. Actually, so I'm in there.
You go, you and Alex You're you're not alone, thank you. Yes. Somebody of us asked just on the insomnia that makes you eat person, saying what is it that actually causes people to have that sort of insomnia? Is it something you can do to avoid it? In other words, what makes people do it?
Right? There are two eating disorders in the night. One is sleep related eating disorder, which is like sleepwalking. So anything that controls sleepwalking is usually the first two or three hours, three or four hours of the night usually exist is a genetic background usually, so you've might have been a sleepwalker on right terror in the past. It's triggered by fatigue or stress. So if you want to reduce the instance of doing these things at night, then
reduce stress or fatigue, which means getting better sleep. I guess there's another one called night eating disorder, which is actually slightly different. It means that you wake in the middle of the night and you and you have this this feeling you have to eat something before you go back to sleep. It's a little bit more a bit of an OCD type consideration. So it's there, but they're awake, they just need something to eat in their tummy before
they can get them theirselves back to sleep. So it becomes oh, really, oh that's in the middle of the night. That's night eating disorder.
It's not me having a peanut but a sandwich at ten thirty.
Because no, no, no, that's in the middle of the night.
That's just a lack of discipline on Actually, what is it that gives people sort of night You know, people have a snack craving sort of and they've had a dinner. I mean sometimes they've had a good dinner and things. But if I think peanut but a sandwich.
I'm like, okay, it's look. I talk about this all the time because a lot of people do have a meal and then in the evening they snack for me. I think, why do you do that? You've just had a meal for heading's sake. Well, it's probably because you're a bit tired. When we get tired, it also has hormented your brain called liptin and grilling and liptinoils drop, crillinals rise, and brain needed something, So.
I should just go to bed instead.
Yeah, I mean you don't actually need it, it's your brain is telling you and it becomes habit.
Of course, I think i'd probably be about to kilo. Anyway, We're going to be back in just a moment, eleven minutes to five, News talks. It'd be the news talks. It be yes at eight minutes to five, not much time left, but Tom squeezing a quick call. Jeremy Hello, Jeremy Hello, can you hear me?
Ye?
I'll just turn you.
That's a good idea.
I just my question relates. So I got the back end of what you're talking about with serotonin from light? Is that only from natural light that you can get that that serotonin or is the man made lighting options that I don't know, maybe a sill of question, but is there other ways to get that in?
Yeah, there are blue light producer that you can get special glasses for example that blue produces blue light which is very good at suppressing melatonin producing serotonin. The thing I like about outside light is that you do a bit of exercise in a lovely environment, whereas you know glasses, blue glasses and blue light boxes do similar thing, but they're you know, you're sitting in an office or sitting at home doing it, So yeah, they would they would be similar.
Is that Chris, you're stuck inside for your job at Jeremy and you're thinking there's got to be a way of getting some blue light here.
Yes, it was more for a family member. So if you know, predominantly inside and like you know, with not bright lighting most of the day and they've got real trouble sleeping, I was wondering maybe they could be of assistance.
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean we do use blue light glasses in the morning. We actually have those available which people use if they if they're really unable to get out for half an hour walk in the morn morning, then blue light glasses work very well, and of course you should you change them over to amber colored glasses at night, which are blue blockers, so it blocks the blue light in the evening. So these glasses are good for that context for people maybe like your friend, who actually can't
spend time outside for whatever reason. You know, they've got busy lives, they've got family, whatever, a lot of reasons why people can't get outside, No.
Trouble. Where would you get blue glasses from? Are they just? Are they just sort of blue bluish lenses. They know they produce blue light, They produce them, they convert the light. That's because actually that's interesting that you mentioned that, because I think there are a lot of office spaces where
people think that the blue light is the villain. But in fact, if you're in an inside office environment, then you shouldn't be running away from the blue light because it's nothing theoretically.
I mean, computers, of course have got a lot of blue lights, so that theoretically is actually not unhelpful. But you know, the outside, because it's varied, it's not just blue light. I mean outside is blue and green, and those are the wavelengths, that area of wavelength that does you so good apart from being outside.
Yeah, that's interesting. So in an office environment, you shouldn't be freaking out about the blue light from your screens if you are working during the day. In fact, a funny thing is if you're a shift worker, you need to stay awake anyway. I mean, God, I'm surrounded by
screens and when I'm doing night work. So actually, that's that's interesting because I think there's this general sense of rule of thumb for the public, like all blue light's the devil, but actually blue lights your friend during the day.
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, you know, in the end, so blue light generally outside is always ideal.
Hey, that's pretty much it. We've only got about a minute left. Alex. Thanks so much for coming on the show this year. Have you got anything interesting plan for Christmas or you're taking a bit of time off?
Yeah, a bit of time off over Christmas is have a bit of a break. I'm coming in to see you guys again on the fifth, I think it is. I'm back in January.
Oh, okay, that'll be Is that in the Morning show or something that'll be with Francisca A good stuff.
That's nice. Yeah, So we're just saving up to spend a bit of time overseas.
Oh oh really, anywhere you can share with us. You don't have to share of course the end of next year. Our end of next year. So you're saving up for the big trail. Absolutely. Oh you and Me's which continent?
Well, we would have spent at least ten days in Spain, which much about.
At this time of year in the winter as our autumn time. Perfect time.
Family in England of course, my family is mainly in England.
Yeah, okay, And if people want to catch up with your connect the sleep Well Clinic.
Sleep Well Clinic in excellent, Thanks Jim Having.
Thanks you too, you too. We'll be back shortly with Smart Money. This is news talk Z. It'd be Shane Solly is going to be with us and we're talking about the changes that the government making to the key we saver providers, allowing them to increase their private asset investments. Sounds pretty harmless, so we're going to dig into that after five o'clock with Shane Solly. We take your calls as well, a little bit of Christmas music to ease you into the news. Back soon.
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