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Stanny Buddies Christmas, I give you the next Day Sandy Beach.
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. Ah, yes, a little bit of wham or just George Michael, I think it's wham Last Christmas? Last Christmas? Should I say I forgot it was a Christmas song? But of course it's got Christmas in the title. Anyway, I forgot. I didn't forget it was a Christmas song. I forgot of thinking of it when it as a song. When I was doing talk bag, I'm thinking what are the good Christmas songs? And somebody suggested Last Christmas. I was like, oh yeah,
a little bit of wham. There we go. Anyway, Welcome to the Parents Squad. My guest is he's a psychologist at Umbrella Academy and his name is Dougal Sutherland and Google, good afternoon.
How are you you're a term Umbrella well being, Umbrella Academy evil? Sorry, Umbrella Academy, I think is like an evil corporation in some video game. I believe.
Oh well, okay, that's not us.
I can tell you right now there's nothing evil there. I'm all good.
I don't know where academy came from. But anyway, that umbrella, sorry about that.
No, no, I'm going to look up what Umbrella Academy is. Now, it was a TV show. It's a TV show.
Remember that. I think my producer had a senior moment and umbrella. She brought up some old memory. I'm going to dig into that in the break. I'm going to say what. Yeah, anyway, now, what's what's your website and your your address for people to get in touch and see the work that you do.
That's a great umbrella dot dot z.
Dot org dot z. So what we want to talk about? Look, it's it's interesting one, isn't it? The whole question, the whole question about rewarding kids and giving them a kids children awards for achievement and things. And as you will have seen that there's a story out about school prize givings and a question mark over whether these are good
or bad for children. And there's that school of thought that you know, the well, there's a school of thought in both directions, and that somehow if you are not the kids who are not getting their award, the awards maybe dis disheartened or something, and it sends and anyway to me. Obviously, surprise givings have been something that have been around when I was at school, and I never gave them a second thought. Some kids got prizes and
some didn't, and I didn't really care about it. But is there some sort of deeper sort of pearl clutching we can do on this?
Yeah, it's it is a It is a vexed one, isn't it like on a bit like you? I think in the end of year prizegiving, the way I see it is meant to celebrate the big achievements of the year, and I reckon there is a time and a place for, you know, singling out people who've done well, whether that's academically or sporting or culturally, and that's I think. I think it's important that we celebrate that, that we recognize people that have done really, really really well, because they
might not get it a lot otherwise. I think there's too a place for awarding kids or recognizing kids who participate, but that could I reckon that can be done during the year that the prize giving. The prize givings are sort of like the award it's a bit of the awards, the Academy awards. You don't say, well, everybody can get a can get an award, Academy award, can't they? It's like, no, there are some that we and we and I don't think we should shy away from celebrating that success.
It's a bit like you know, the maybe there is a time when kids. It's like with sporting teams that, yeah, the kids catch up with this because you know, things like player of the week, and the kids are not dumb, and at some stage they become aware that there's a bit of a merry go round, that it's such and such as turn for player of the week. And as soon as you turn into that, you might as well not bother ya. I mean in the in the teams that I sort of was a parent at I think
we try to. We may have got there may have been kids who got it more than once or more often, but and we would always look for a reason that that player had got it, so it would have a tangible way proving it. But kids are not dumb either, are they when it comes to I just got that because it was my team.
Yeah, yeah, I like that kind of you know that that approach that you're talking about there around you know that there's got to be a reason, like, you know, especially you know, I think back I coached kid's cricket teams, and some of them, you know, they were I think my son started when he was about eight or something and played till he was in high school and so
he got recently good. But you saw a whole lot of shapes and sizes and levels of ability and kids during that time, and some you know, couldn't catch a ball. But if they did manage to start catching a ball, that might be something worth celebrating and that, you know, but they'd be specifically picked out for that. Hey, you know, you really improved in your fielding, which is great, and that's something to be celebrated as well.
I think, yeah, but I think we had move of the day as well, because if somebody did something spectacular, went for something, even if it failed to be like your move of the day was you diving to try and catch that ball and they didn't make it, that was magnificent and they sort of go, yeah, it's cool.
I really yeah. Yeah, Because there was a time when there was a school of thought, I don't know, who where it came from, but where it was almost viewed to be a cardinal sin to be selecting kids to be celebrated ahead of others and their achievements.
Have we moved?
I don't think that this is what the story is about. But there are things that you probably shouldn't be rewarding kids for. But my take on that would be if your child makes their bed and helps with the dishes, that's not something we you need a badge for it. There should be an intrinsic They should learn to do lots of things in life simply because hey, I did that. How cool is it?
Yeah?
Look, I think there's some truth in that. I think though, that sometimes when you're trying to get a behavior going that isn't there, I don't know, making it, let's say, making a bed just because you said that that rewarding and sort of in strict psychological terms, which is giving them something positive and making increasing the chances that they'll do it again. That probably is a useful thing, I think, And that's so you're not going to rward them forever.
But if they don't want to do it, or if they don't know how to do it, they're not very good at doing it, then giving them something afterwards that makes the behavior more likely to occur. Again, that's a definition of a psychological definition of a reward. I think it's.
Useful as opposed to here's a lolly or ye over substantial.
Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just a recognition and you are trying to train a behavior. But I think that is different from like a prize giving or or an award for participation. Well yeah, one is you're trying to get more of a behavior, the other you're recognizing something
about them. But yeah, I think, I think, I think, Look, yeah, going back to that price giving, I really think I remember I was I did pretty well at school academically, but our school was not the type of school that you celebrated being good academic.
The awards and the price for Latin goes to doogle.
If only I think they dropped Latin by the time I got there, But no, our school was not. There was no culture of selling embracing that. And I think the only time I ever felt good about my school achievement was probably a prize giving once where I got a prize and people did clap and celebrate, and I was like, oh, okay, once in the year, I feel okay about doing well at school, which is a bit of a sad in diament on in my high school. But that's that's the way it was, and that was
useful for me. I thought, yeah, I do get recognized at some level for doing this in front of.
Everybody thattually interesting. I got the prize for history when I was fifteen, I think, or sixteen or seven. Maybe it was seventeen actually, and I don't remember remember feeling anything. I sort of like, I don't actually wonder if prizegivings are more for the parents in a way, because the kids sort of go, yeah, I got this, and they
sort of wander up and they go cool. I mean, I've got a photo of my daughter's at the prize giving and they invite them up because they you know, it's at a school where they have blistering levels of sess. But there's a photo I took where they invite them ten up at a time and they're standing there and they all look so lum. And when my daughter, our daughter's got a couple of awards, and I was thinking, maybe the awards more for me, because we were just
so proud proud of them. Who do you think the kids.
I definitely think you get that sense of pride as a family member and as a parent, and there is some I think it and in many ways for kids that the awards are often a celebration of that the family in a sense, because you know your parents have invested a lot. But yes, I guess it's sometimes kids can feel a bit embarrassed. Oh my god, I don't really want to go with the rest of it in the front of the school, and then mom and dad are standing there clapping and jeering and the whole rest
of it. So yeah, probably families getting parents get more out of it than than the kids do. I would imagine at times.
We'd love your calls on this about how to get look, I don't know, I ask the obvious text question is like a prize givings helpful or harmful, But how do you get it right when it comes to celebrating success versus I don't I think participation awards are probably the worst prize you can give to a kid because they know they're just being given it for turning up. That would be my general rule on it. But I think the one that we used to sort of as kids.
Poor scorn On was that the effort an improvement award? But I think these days actually the effort an improvement award is probably one of the most significant ones some kid who has turned around something. So we'd love your calls on this. On eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Do you love the prize givings or do you hate the fact that they single our excellence and the other kids who miss out it just contributes to their sense of
something inadequacy or something I'm overplaying. I'm overstaining my hand on that. But what do you think? Do you like prize givings? Are they helpful or harmful? O eight one hundred eighty ten eighty text nine to nine till them. We'll take a break now and we'll come back with your calls if you like. I'd love to hear from you. It's eighteen past five news talks he'd be.
He's saying on a song it is we go along, whilcome you glmbo on the name Well in Movado you can build a storemat and pretended he has passed round, He'll say, are you married? Will send no man, but you can do the job. When you're on town letter will inspire.
Ah, Yes, this one's for you. Doogle google Sutherland from umbrella dot org. God end z it because I think you might have told Tyra and she's trying to make up for your company company name wrong. This is a bit of Dean Martin, a bit of Christmas.
Yeah, lovely, isn't it? Classic classic Kroner.
I like the old of Christmasy crooney stuff.
It's just yea yeah, I do too. I've got this. I've got a cassette tape of a Frank Sinatra Christmas Special with Dean Martin coming on as well. It's it's it sounds like it's a recording of some sort of radio show that they did, but it was a it was a different time back then in the fifties.
Funny thing is he was the one his his his sort of persona on stage was the one. He was always fond of a drink, but apparently he didn't drink very much, and it was Sinatra who drink like for sure. Yeah, so they turned the tables on that. Anyway, we're talking about prize givings, so let's take your calls on this. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Daytona. Hello, Hi there, Hello, how are you hi?
Can Yeah, I'm good, Thank you.
What would you like to share with us about the prize givings?
Yeah, I won the most improved part of a prizegiving in high school and it was a bit embarrassing, but at the same time that he said that it's an improvement, like a something.
It's true when you got it, what did you Were you surprised and were you were you thrilled or were you sort of did you sort of.
Me my cohort, which it just seems like you're you're Yeah, it's just not it's kind of looked down.
How long ago?
Was that?
Years ago?
Okay? Well, and what do you think of it now when you look back, or would you would you want your family members of yours to get the most improved because it's actually pretty good prize when you think of it.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean that's the means it's an improvement. You're stepping up a later.
Good on it, Good on your thanks for that, Daytona. So it's a bit of a bit of a scratchy phone line. Then I think Google you might have had trouble hearing that that Daytona was saying when she got the most Improved awards, she sort of cringed a bit, but she's actually quite proud she got it. Looking back fifteen years later.
Yeah, funny, that, isn't it that that when you look back on it, go, Actually that was and that's a good thing. I reckon, that's really good. You know that often in the moment, especially as teenagers, teenagers never like to be the center of attention, weirdly because they always like to be the center of attention at the same time, don't they. But if you put them up up on stages like no, no, but actually it does sink in. I think Daytona's example sort of showed that it sinks in later on.
I wonder if it depends on the school and the sort of community I guess, but I think probably that when it came to prize giving, kids who got awards for sporting prowess did actually enjoy that. I think we are shifting a bit with the appreciating academic success, that aren't we.
Yeah? I think so. My son when he was at school, he went to a fairly traditional sort of boys' school, and you know Verse fifteen and Blues for cricket, et cetera with a thing. But they were really pushing to recognize academic excellence and cultural excellence as well. And I think that was good because I think sporting always sort of gets it. But yeah, the wider and the broader you can make it. I think we're going to get better, better results if we're if we recognize lots of talents.
Yeah, what is the I mean, what are the ways too? From a psychological point of view, I guess, or not from me, you know, just from a human to human point of view. But encouraging kids to actually, because there are some kids who are motivated by extrinsic things. They want to win the prize and they go healthful leather for that. I have a daughter who did say when she didn't get all the top of prize, she did well, but she saw some other girls getting better prizes. I
actually said to my wife. I've already repeated myself from the panel here because I was telling my panelists about this, But I said to my wife on the way home, I said, I bet you such and such says that she might try a bit harder next year because she wants to win those prizes. And I was driving around and she was in the back seat. She goes, Daddy, I might try a bit harder next year's And I said, really,
why is that? So she's motivated by both, you know, her own sense of satisfaction, but she does like the extrinsic Yeah.
Look, I think I think sort of. There are different personality styles and there you know, some are really motivated by competition and that's great, and some aren't so much motivated by competition, and that it just won't quite have the same impact the horses for courses. I guess if your kid is motivated by that competition, that's probably great.
They'll probably learn some good lessons along the way. And the fact that they can't win all the time, you know, they might be I had the experience of going to from school to UNI, and UNI is a whole different ballgame, and all of a sudden you go, oh, I'm not I'm a little fish in a big pool now. But that's okay, you can that's that's good learning as well. That's good learning. Well.
I don't know what the stats show in terms of the people who become the biggest successes in life, but I have a suspicion that it's not necessarily the people who rock and roll at school who necessarily turn into the biggest successes. I would have thought, in fact, for kids who this is what This is why I think if you're a naturally talented, gifted child, that the the prizes that might flow when you actually haven't much if it don't necessarily serve you that well do they?
Yeah? No, It goes back to your point around you know that the prizes for most improved or people that have developed the most, because that's rewarding some real hard graft there isn't it, rather than a sort of just oh I can do this naturally. Yeah?
How what is the best way to I mean? And what this all really comes back to us. We all want our kids to do well. This is not about, for me, the final year of prize giving. It's about their journey through school and recognizing effort. But what do we know about the things that actually will motivate children to do their best and to enjoy success?
Yeah?
Well, I think the school So if we look at think about the school, school systems are moving and have been for quite a way now, moving away from that sort of final exam, the exam being the big thing, and there's lots of recognition throughout the year because there's lots of opportunities for people for kids to do work throughout the year, and university is definitely moving to that
as well. So I think that is quite helpful for a number of kids who because it rewards that kind of continual effort rather than maybe a big push at
the end. And I think that's probably useful for most kids really, that that you know, you could you could smash it towards the end of the year and get a big prize, but actually slow and steady wins the race and you're probably building up a whole lot better skills if you're awarded throughout the year just for small successes rather than waiting for one big one at the end.
Is that something you really can make an influence influenced kids on because there's a part of me that wonders whether they are always going to be the ones who are slow and steady and do well and that's set, you know, that's set in their first few years of life really, and the ones who are always going to be the late ones who cram and you know, don't put the effort in, but then cram and Cram and Kram and Cram that's also a personality type. Can how much can you change the asse?
Yeah? I think you can change those essentially. Sure. I think we have tendencies to be one or the other, you know, a crammer or a slow and steady throughout the year. But I think most people have got their ability to be changed and shaped a little bit. And you probably need to because you're going to go into a life and a workforce that you need to be a bit adaptable to. But it's definitely changeable. I think. I think very few traits psychologically are kind of set
and fused from day one and can't be changed. Where we have lots of impact by what goes on around us, or we're impacted lots by what goes on around us.
Do you remember what I used to motivate you? That's cool?
I was.
I think it was the intrinsic motivation of I did well on a on a exam, or not even exam, but you know, did well on an assignment, and and that was good for me because but because I was good at it anyway, it was sort of reinforced for me that this was something I was good at, and so but I did have to keep it quiet. I could share with my parents, but I did shit with my classmates. I would quickly look at my marking class and then quickly put it in my bag so that nobody else saw it.
Really, Oh my goodness, you really were Did you get picked on at school or something for being the clever kid?
I didn't get picked on, but I avoided that by having a very smart mouth. And so because I could see that, I could see that was going to come if I didn't say something, I was going to get picked on for being a nerd. So I developed a cutting sense of humor, which in hindsight was probably relatively cruel. When I was at school, I.
Think, oh, oh, well, yeah, that's look, it's you know, it's survival. At school it felt a bit like that Sutherland sort of, you know, in a position of power and then you're just trying to keep your head above water, won't you.
Yeah, I was at that stage. You're looking back, it would have been nice to have done things a little bit differently, but yeah, as you say, it was a bit of survival and the fittest in the in the mid eighties at high school.
Yeah, few texts here one says, I got to run award at my school prizegiving for the amount of money I raised throughout the year. When I was walking back after receiving my award, I overheard parents mocking the rotary award I got and saying they'd glad their kids got a better award. Uh, definitely, at least partly for the parents, or at least to make their parents proud.
What the.
Well, that's just a that's just an indictment on stupid parents, isn't it that stupid people?
Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's it's that. That does sound like there's a whole lot of judginess going on and a weighing up of it. Sounds to me like there are too many prizes almost being given out of people are starting to compare a levels of prizes. You know, that sounds it sounds pretty nasty. Really it's yeah.
Actually, just out of curiosity, from a historical point of view, we have come a long way. I just thought it's worth pointing out. I wondered whether the dunce hat was actually ever a real thing, But dunce hats were used in schools in Europe, and this is the opposite of the prize giving. Yeah, yeah, when literally if you'd done something, oh, if you weren't doing very well or whatever. I don't know why people got the dunce hat, but actually was a thing, wasn't it a tall pointed hat used as
a form of punishment for children. Did you know about the dunce I.
Didn't know that it was. It was a real thing, you know. I'd heard about a dunce cap, but I didn't really realize it was a real thing. I think, yeah, yeah, the gosh, that's really old school, isn't it. Let's punish you in to try and to achieve better. That'll work. Yeah, yeah, but it's interesting that it was a real thing.
Of course, these days, if there was such a thing as a dance cap, it would probably be used and turned in social social media as some sort of badge of honor, wouldn't it.
Oh yeah, well that's yet. And to be fair, there's probably social media dunce caps that people are inadvertently given. I would imagine.
Yeah, a few more texts, Haim. Oh, it's touching on a couple of subjects we touched on. Hay, Tim, I got the History in Latin prize at school too, and I turned out, Okay, that's from Rosie. If you have earned it, you should probably be able to get a reward for your efforts. In the normal world, there are no free lunches, And I think that's really the point, isn't it. Trying to find that balance on rewarding kids.
Is that life? I mean, obviously you want to shelter kids from the reality is of adult life and prepare, but you also need to prepare them for it, won't you when it comes to, you know, rewarding success as opposed to turning up.
And I think that's what we're going to look at what you're rewarding. Sure, you can reward success, but also you might reward really hard work and hard graft because we know that that will get you a long way as well. So yeah, if you can have a variety of rewards, that's that's that sounds like a good thing.
Yeah, right, let's take some more calls.
Josh, Hello, Yeah, hey guys, good afternoon.
How you doing, not bad?
Hey, I'm just thinking about how you could possibly, you know, create get the behavior won out of somebody by rewarding them for doing the right thing. So, like I actually got an attendance ward when I.
Was a kid.
Low and a teacher talked to me about it and he's just kind of like, hey, man, what's up with your attendants? And at the end of the year, I got an attendance ward and how did you find out? I thought that was good. I mean obviously reinforced you know, attendants and made me think about attendants.
Were you sort of just just taking a sideway step at the school gate up until that point.
No, Actually, like the picture was bigger than that. But I think that the teacher was smart enough to know that if he made it my concern and awarded me for doing my best and showing up, that you know, it was something worth worth achieving for me as as an individual. Like it wasn't something everybody got. But the way the teacher worked it was he sort of primed me to be mindful of attendance and then reinforce the award for you know, actually trying to work on it as much as I could.
Because that seems Josh and Dogle that chipping on this is it. That's also a teacher who is speaking to an individual student according to something that they see needs to be.
It's a great I think it's a great example of how you can really use a reward or an award in this case to actually shake the behavior that you want. As Joshua was saying, that, you know, you move somebody who's perhaps not attending very much into somebody who's, Ah, there's something to achieve out of being here all the time, and there'll be a whole lot of extra benefits that you get from being at school all the time that
probably weren't rewarded. But yeah, great, great insight from the teacher.
Did you get that reward publicly, josh or did you just get yeah?
Yeah, I did, actually yeah, yeah, as in a period we were I was at one school and then we moved somewhere for six months and then came back and there was a few yeah, just resettling and all that sort of cown. But no, I could give other examples of that same teacher who yeah, really helped me with.
Was that teacher quite a special? Was that teacher quite a special teacher? Do you think when you look back, When you.
Look back, when you look back and your whole education, there's probably three teachers that I would have in my mind as profound, really good educators and this guy was one of them. Definitely.
Yeah, yeah, you're very lucky. Actually, Josh, I think to have I mean, I think most people to have had three that you look back on and thanks for your core mate. I appreciate it because I think it's I think at some stage in your education, every kid needs just needs that one teacher, even if it's just that one year, and everyone remembers it that. I mean, for me, it was mister Paul when I was eight years old.
He made us feel ten feet tall. He made us think if we cracked a joke, that we were funny. He had a ladder for the Times tables where we challenged each other, we had fun at class. We absolutely we loved him because he just made us feel like we were also and I'll never forget it.
Yeah, No, I'm the same had. I think mine was mister McHugh and Form seven. He was an English teacher and he just he just made education come alive and he got me interested in psychology. Actually I had been well, I did go after union do law, but I did psychology at the same time because of his influence. I mean, he told us a whole lot of sort of myths about it. Well, he thought they were true, so they turned out to be lies. But putting that aside, he was the one who got me interested in what.
Turned out to me lies.
Well, things like did you know did you know that we only use ten percent of our brain? Oh? Wow, Well I want to go and learn about the brain. But he was very motivational and it got me interested in psychology. And I wouldn't have been interested in that, I don't think without him. So it's yeah, I think it is great to have those one or two people who really make that difference.
Yeah, all right, we might take quick break. We've got some more calls to come to and we'll be back in just a moment. News Talk said be talking about prize givings and motivating kids and what's the best way to do it. It's twenty two minutes to sick.
Well way up north Worthy.
Ergis called There's a Tale about Christmas that.
You Love Me? Yeah.
That sounds like the Beats Boys a bit, doesn't it, But I don't know if it is. But you can tell this a Christmas song up from the lyrics because there are sleigh bells in the background. You can turn any Christmas song into a Christmas song any song into a Christmas song by adding sleigh bells. Anyway, my guess for the parent squad is Doogle Sutherland. And I've got to say, by the way, you know how we got the title the second part of your company wrong when
we said umbrella something the wrong description. I did get some texts and somebody highlight highlighted to us there's an umbrella corporation in the game Resident Evil. Yes, yes, that's not your umbrella. Got in z.
Let's get the right umbrella.
Not anyway. Hey, actually, by the way, just on the attendance thing rewarding intendans, quite that's the call from Josh before I cynically, I sort of think, Gosh, in a way, you always wonder whether it'd be worth having attendance awards for the for the staggering levels of non attendants from kids. But actually which is a serious issue just getting children to school. But I was just noticing, I was thinking, actually,
hang on a minute, So I do. I do a language learning app called Duo Lingo, which many people will do well will know about, and they have a learning streak sort of thing where you actually it does flashes up little stars like hey, you're on day six hundred and ninety nine today and it keeps me going because I don't learn that lose that learning streak.
So there is yeah, definitely, there's something in.
The participation stakes, isn't there.
Well, And that's what they call gamification, isn't it, and making So it's creating some sort of game like rewards into a learning process. And they try to use them on a lot of apps, but for an exact reason to get people to keep using them, because one of the difficulties with apps is that people stop using them.
And so if you can gamify it and people get rewards, and you know, you think about even it's not a great example, but you think about the poking machines and the rewards that people get from the flashlights and being bing bing bing. We get a bit of a dopeing hit from that, we get. Yeah, you get a little bit of a dope mein hit from the from the duo Lingo app as well, just.
The Who's educational But it is just because they want my yearly subscription when it rolls around.
I hate to say that that might be part of it. Yeah, I think I don't think they're doing it out of a charitable cause, probably, but it does work. It's you know, if we get that's the and that goes back to that psychological sense of what a reward is. It's something that you get after the behavior that makes it more likely that the behavior will occur.
Again, it's the intrinsic there's the intrinsic side of learning. Obviously, I'm learning French because I want to be able to speak it better, and That'll be the intrinsic reward. But yeah, it's it's a bit of both, isn't it.
Well, it's a long time before you might get the reward from actually speaking French fluently, and so you probably need something to keep you and keep going. Like even Josh's example of one hundred percent attendance at school or attendance at school he did well to last until the end of the year. I think a lot of kids would have probably gone, oh, that's far too long. So that if we can get little rewards along the way, that will help and then there might be one big thing at the end.
Yeah, yeah, so does is there is there a way an education to give those dopamine hats though? So, I mean, is that a legitimate form of encouragement those.
Well, yeah, I mean you get it anyway. That's the kind of intrinsic reward. The feel good is the dope meine hit. The difficulty with dopamine and that sort of intrinsic reward is that it's a bit morally neutral, so that you can get a you can feel good about doing anything. It doesn't necessarily mean it's it's the thing that we want you to do. You feel good about pulling the you know, punching the buttons on a poking machine. That does doesn't actually mean that we want you to
do that behavior. As a society. Much more you can get You can get a dopamine hit or a reward intrinsic reward from getting out of something that you don't want to do. So it's the intrinsic reward is great, but you can get it for many many reasons, not just necessarily the things that we want you to be doing.
Okay, here's a text challenging the prize giving thing, but says the whole problem is the fact that kids absolutely know it is important to you. Their parents subtle, subtlety, subtenly giving them subliminal messages. As you're refair to prize giving or the kids that come first in these things. Then you start to raise kids who want to please parents.
Parents should keep out of it, but they just don't. Therefore, I'm against prize giving as it muddies the water of working hard because the child themselves want it, wants to for their own benefit, not for the benefit of the parent. By the way, as a school prefect receive prizes and now teacher, I just don't think prizes should Prizes should motivate hard work or natural ability. We're all born with
different abilities. Once you leave school, it doesn't matter. A lot of damage is done to those who get them at school. I'm not much sure I agree with all that.
But I'm not cult sure I do either. I mean, I think a lot of us will do things because it helps and we get recognized by other people and it brings it might bring positive you know, pride to our families or to our or when we're in the workplace, to our workplace. But I think, yeah, different ones of us will be motivated by Some will be really intrinsically
motivated to get that reward some of it. Some of us will work hard because it helps other people and it reflects well on our bigger family or our bigger the group.
That we belong to.
And I think that's all right too. Now I'm not sure I fully agree that it should only be for our own individual reward and success that I think there are other reasons that we might get rewarded or might feel rewarded.
To imagine, if you went to a high school, like if there was a charter school that was all based on zen, they definitely wouldn't have a price, they wouldn't.
It reminded me of my daughter's school used to have in the old days before COVID. They used to have an award for one hundred percent attendance, so if you went every day of the school year, and they quickly ditched that after co because they realized that kids were coming along sick and it was a great way of spreading the flu around because they really some kids really
wanted to get the one hundred percent attendant award. So that one's gone now, which I think is probably a useful thing to have dropped.
As soon as you mentioned the one hundred percent attendants award, I thought, I actually thought for you said, and I thought, I'll bet you that went by the way, So I wouldn't COVID hit and of course, yeah, it's never too far from from our from our thoughts. Hey Google, thank you, thanks so much for your time this year. We can get you back on as as one of our guests on the On the Parents Squad for next year as well.
Yeah, thanks Tim. It's it's it's always and time flies. I find it's a great time and just chatting over a few issues and yeah, time flies and it's it's that time again. So yeah, thank you. It's been great.
Are you having Are you taking a little bit of time off?
Yeah, taking a few weeks off, going to Alexandra, to my wife's family for a week or so, and then going to Auckland because my son and his partner are expecting a baby.
Oh oh my godness. Yeah, Otherland, my grandfather.
Oh yeah, we haven't. Yeah, I'm not. I haven't quite warmed up to that to that yet.
Well, I'm sure on your website umbrella dot org dot n z it's got some advice for dealing with some of the big life changes that are getting your way.
I'm going to have to take my own advice, I think, aren't I.
Well, you're looking very young, grandfather and We appreciate your time this year. Merry Christmas.
Yeah, thanks to Merry Christmas too as well.
Mateas here, we'll be back shortly. Andrew Ordison is at the Cricket and he's he'll be here to wrap sport with us in just a moment. News Talks will be eleven minutes to six.
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