Dougal Sutherland: Dealing with the fallout from a bad exam result

much for Ed who was in before. I was talking about his charcoal barbecue and about some of the sausages that he's got in, some steaks, some dry age steaks that he's throwing on there. Made my mouth water while I was talking with him. But now, fantastic discussion and we're going to move on because it is now the parent Squad part of the show and we're going to be talking to Doogled Sutherland, who is a he's a

psychologist at the Umbrella Wellington at Umbrella Wellington, Doogle. Good evening, good evening, good afternoon.

a sense of normality with such different routines. And that's what we're going to be talking to doogled about this afternoon, and we're this evening rather and we will be welcoming your calls. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty if you want to get involved in the conversation and direct some questions to doogld because he's the expert. I'm just like I was with Ed, just the loud mouth, talking head with a piece of paper in front of me, but doogle.

I'm interested from your perspective, what should a parent's initial response to be when the exam results come in.

and pick up credits should she need them. So and look, many kids will be in that position and parents too, and it is a nervous time. I think. Firstly, when exam res are it's come through and they're still pretty fresh for many people. Now, of course, your role really as a parent at this point is just to be supportive and to be and celebrate if they if they've got their results and they've achieved them, and commiserate and support them and be empathetic if they've not got the results.

You know, really pay attention to the emotions that your kids are feeling right now. Now is not the time to start, you know, lecturing them about oh, yes, well I told you should have worked harder. I told you should you know, didn't I say that you shouldn't have been you know? Now is not that time. There will be a time for that, but now is not that time.

So now I think really that the initial focus for the next week or two, just well they digest these results, is just to focus on their emotions and just to be as I say, celebrated if they've achieved, and commiserate and be empathic if they have not achieved what they'd hoped.

be in that position that they've got what they need. Look, I think the other thing, and this might be an important lesson for kids to learn too, is that look exam results, whilst they mean a lot at the time that they're in the grand scheme of life, it's a bit of a wrinkle if you don't get what you

what you want or what you need. And I think as adults and parents, that's one of the roles that we can plays helping give some perspective that yeah, it might feel like it's really really bad, but actually heaps of people don't get the results they want and it works out all right in the end for them. And and you know, my son he finished school, oh gosh, he's mid twenties now, so he finished school a few years ago. He finished at the end of level two.

He didn't do level three. And but he's actually just last year graduated from aut with a degree and he went back and did it later. So you know, even though it may seem like the end of the world, there was always another path, and I think that's a useful message for our kids to have.

I had studied so hard for physics. I thought I was going to be doing really well. I was really excited and then I clicked on and I'd failed every single paper. I couldn't believe it. And I do remember having that guttural feeling that my life is over, like I didn't want to do anything to do with physics. I hated science. I was an English guy all going up,

despite the fact that dyslexic. But I remember my parents were really good about it because I didn't I could tell that they were probably like, what do we do here? Because I was the oldest child, it was quite a lot of failure for me. And they were really good because they gave me my space. They didn't they definitely didn't lecture me. They didn't say, well if you did more of this. But I was a bit of a brat about it as well, because I didn't even tell

them for quite some time. They were just like, how to do good? Well, it was good, it was all right. So what would be a vice to parents if you have got a kid that just kind of withdrawers? Is a year, It's okay, it's fine.

asking questions after question. I know you'll be curious. You know, I went to work on Thursday going, oh god, I wonder what the result is the results are going to be like, and I just had to sort of, you know, quell that curiosity, just waiting for her to come to me and let me know. And I think, you know, if your teen is a bit sullen and a bit withdrawn, you might make a few educated guesses about what's gone on with the results. But just give them a little

bit of time and pick your moment. I think that there might be a moment when everybody else is out of the house and it's just you and them alone, and that might be the moment to say, hey, look, how did those results go on? You know, you've said they're fine, but you know, give us, give us the detail exactly how how did you go? But just choose your moments as much as you can and let them come to you.

How how do you say I'm proud of you and you need to work harder at the same time.

the Goldilock zone for that situation. I think when when teens haven't done too well is again firstly being there to support their emotions. They will be bummed about it, probably more than you are as a parent. So remember it's their exam results, not yours, and they will be bummed and they look, they will know probably give them some credit. They will know that probably they haven't studied

as hard as they could. And I think rather than lecturing them and saying well you should have studied and blah blah lah, I think again, picking your moment when when the moment's right, and the emotions perhaps died down a bit and they're communicating with you. Just get them to reflect on it, avoid avoid trying to tell them what they should have done differently, and help them to

unpack what they think they could have done differently. And I think that's a much better way of them actually learning the lesson from what's happened, because this is one of life's lessons really that they can learn from. So asking them, look, what do you think you know? What do you think led to this result? Is there anything that you could have done differently? Do you think without? They don't need you to tell them they should have

studied more, that's pretty evident from the results. But getting them to reflect and figure out, support them to figure out what they're going to do next. Don't make the decisions for them, get them, but just help them be there as guard rails I guess as they're trying to make the decision about what to do next.

to talk with him. I was wondering if we could do something a little bit outside the box here, because I understand what you were saying in theory. In practice, I'm struggling to comprehend it the little bit more So, can we do a bit of role playing here? Can I be a teen who has not studied and listen to everybody that's always texting and you sound like you're twelve years old? I'm not. I'm well above twelve. I won't tell you how old, but I'm married and I

have a house, So there's your gate. So can I be the teen who hasn't studied despite the fact that my parents have told me time and time again. I think this might be a good perspective for some parents listening to try and figure out how to maintain this. Okay, so we'll begin with you asking me how the results went, and we can skip past the sort of Okay, I'll just come right out and tell.

are you thinking of for twenty twenty five? Are you gonna Are you gonna or are you close enough that you could get a few credits over summer school or something like that, or are you going to have to repeat those completely for the year.

got to that point? And I found myself saying, oh, well, I guess I didn't study very much, and instead of chastising me, you said, oh, well, what's the next option? So would that be? Your advice to parents is just letting the kids and the teens lead the conversation and you just sort of chiming and where you.

for them to come to you. But the other thing that probably added to you and I doing such a great performance that no doubt we're going to get nominated award when yeah, is that there's not the emotional connection. And I think you know you're just just so listeners are clear, there's no biological relationship between your eye and so you're not really my son. So so, but but you know, when it is your kith and kin, when it's your kids, there is And I know this myself.

I find it it's much easier for me to give advice to somebody that sometimes when it is to deal with my own kids, because for me, there's that emotion and and and I don't have that when I'm speaking to somebody that's not my own kid, because I don't have that personal connection. So often, as parents, when you're having these difficult conversations, one of the things is how

to manage your own emotions. Like if I'm feeling really annoyed and brassed off at you, because actually you were you should have studied much more, and you and I both know that, and it really ticks me off that you haven't. And now look what you've done, and now what's going to happen this year. But that's that emotion. Expressing that emotion to you to your kid when you're having this discussion is not going to be useful for

that conversation. They will know you're disappointed with them. They will know that you're that you feel, you know, down about it, just like they do. So for parents, it's often about managing your emotions so that those don't seep in and color the conversation in a different way. You know, yes, there will be a time as a parent that you need to let off your own steam about God, bluddy Jason. I told him to get on with his study and he didn't do it, and now look at him. But

that's a conversation with another adult. You know, if you've got a partner, have a conversation with them, or if you don't have a partner, have a commonversation with a friend or a family member. But that's not the conversation to have with the young person because all they're here as your anger or your frustration. They won't hear anything else. So emotion management, I think is a real key for anything in parenting.

Two out of three is not bad, isn't it? Doogled?

It's it's as a parent. This is an event in your life just as much as in its event in their life that has made you feel a particular way, and we know that it's really useful to manage your emotions, or one useful way to manage your emotions is actually talking it through with somebody else. So it's it's and it's being honest, it's saying, look, it really brassed me off. Jason was just I knew that he wasn't going to do it, and I feel so bloody frustrated about it.

And look, that's perfectly fine. That is how as a parent that you might experience it. But the difference is having a place where you can vent that feeling, where you can express that feeling that is not with your tea. And often I think as parents, you know, we get drawn into it's like a magnet, or you know that you get drawn into expressing that emotion in front or towards your children and your rent and your rave, and you tattle them off, and that it really doesn't do

anybody an awful lot of good. You generally feel terrible after you've done it. It damages the relationship with your team, and they feel terrible too because now you're yelling and swearing and raving at them, and it doesn't really achieve anything. And look, my experience with you know, and I've worked with parents for over twenty years now, and often it's that the key thing is how do people manage their emotion in any state, whether they're angry or whether they're

worried themselves. It's putting up a protective layer between your emotion and your child or young person, because you know, kids don't know how to deal with their with their parents' emotion and they shouldn't have to because that's not the relationship you have. So you're having a good you know, and there's nothing wrong with having a bit of a bitch and a moan with your good friends or your family about how you feel about your kids. That's fine because it's a reality for you.

it was just me? And actually that helps sort of teamer down a little bit your your your emotion because you are just you're getting some validation from somebody. Are sure hearing that you're not the only one who also feels brassed off? But I think you know, parents often do that. You know, kids don't know and and and it's a bit like center that kids never really know

that it's the parents, but parents. Weirdly enough, parents have emotions too, and they need to be they need to be able to express and manage those but just in an adult appropriate way. But certainly that certainly in my circles, you know, lots of time parents will We've just been

away with some friends of ours in christ Church. They've got kids very similar ages to ours, and we shared some frustrations and some anxieties and some you know, some celebrations that we could with our friends, adult to adult. And I think it's really important.

You know, there's the temper tantrums as a two and a three year old, and getting together with other parents who are well even when they even when the new you know, young young babies and they're not sleeping and goh, there's nothing worse for a parent than you know, nights after night after not sleeping and dealing with a grumpy And actually it's really important for parents to get that sport from one another and not to feel alone, because

I think that's certainly with parents I've worked with over time, that's one of the things they talk about, is is actually having that sense that oh, I'm not alone, I'm not in this by myself. This is actually okay, it's normal.

And the message underlying that is we can get through it because as you say, people have been doing this since the dawn of time, although there is some interesting literature around as teenage are the teenage years just sort of a creation of the last sort of two centuries but putting out well, I think the theory is is that actually, you know, people were thrust into adulthood much sooner,

much earlier than than they are in modern times. You know, once you were thirteen or fourteen, often you're off into the workforce, and perhaps sooner than that, particularly for people from working you know, and you know, who were the working class. They didn't have necessary the luxury of having some elongated period of adolescence that it was okay, you've

finished schooling at twelve and often to the workforce. And there is some theories out there that teenagehood has really only become into its own in the last hundred years or so, as we've had much more of a middle class and much more of a time when we are you know, when we don't have to go out to work when we're twelve or thirteen, and we can stay at home for a but longer. But yeah, but that's our theory. It's it's not it's not necessarily everybody agrees on that.

annual leave a year. There are a lot of holidays throughout the year, and then you've got this big stretch at the end of the year. Does how do you think that works for a lot of parents.

awful lot longer than that. And interesting that the little blurb you know, just that just before we came on here was about the community that you know, the parenting

squad is the community that's helped raising your child. Well, I think this is a real time, you know, one of those situations where you do need a community around you you and people might there's lots of things, you know, when our kids were growing up, we would often have grandparents come up for a week or two to look after the kids, or as they got older, we some occasionally popped them on a plane and they went down to the need and to stay with the grandparents, or

you know, you remembering that most parents are probably in the same position as you. So are there people around you in your neighborhood and your friend circles and your communities, whatever communities you're in, who you can club together with and say, hey, look, you know, if you do two days, we'll do two days, and you know, we'll have your kids and you have ours, and then we can we can eke it out. But it's it is, it's the mass is simply doesn't add up right, that you know,

kids are off school. I don't know what, they're off school for eight twelve weeks a year and we've got half of that if you're lucky, and then you'll leave. So but I think it really the key really is coming together in communities where you can help and support one another.

moved from my wife's job and it was okay. Look, I think if you can afford it, there'll always be you know, there'll always be holiday programs, and they're often although kids can gown and grown a bit having to get up and go to them, they're often pretty enjoyable. So that might be a good thing. Look, it could be that it's an opportunity for you to meet people

in your neighborhood. There will often be high school students who are looking for some extra money over that time and who are happy to do it at a much cheaper rate than a school holiday program. You might have to talk really nicely to your boss and say, hey, look, is there any way that I could be working from home a little bit? Yeah, just so that I'm around

to supervise my kids. I don't want to give working from home a bad name or the sense that, you know, when people are working from home they're not really doing it. But for some people that's a reality, is that I don't have friends and family around, and they might just need to be at home just and they'll have to set kids up. There is a lot of setting up. Okay, Monday it's this, and Tuesday it's that, So there might be a bit of setting up and you being around a little bit more to supervise them.

et cetera. It does take a little bit of planning, and the better planned you are, I think, the better prepared you are. And it tends to involve your kids in that as much as you can. You know, what are some of the things that you would like to do. And of course they're going to say that they want to go to the movies every day, and they want to watch video. You know, they want to be on the PlayStation for twenty four hours and that's not going to happen every day. But you know, remember it's their

holidays too, so be a bit more lenient. If they want to have a bit more screen time than usual, you know, maybe that's okay. If they want to go to the pool every day, then maybe that's okay as well. But just you know, remembering that it is the holiday as well. It's their time to enjoy it. But the more planning and preparation and advance you can do, I think the more likely you are for it to go.

and now and they've loved it and it was great. No, I want to go back and just gently remind them, you know, in a positive way. Ah, great, that's cool, because I actually when we talked about it last week, you weren't so into it, and just exploring with them what it was that made it good. You know, you know, so what changed your mind, what was good that made it or what did you enjoy that made it actually quite good for you rather than than what you thought

or feared it was going to be. And then so letting them reflect and come up with the answers, because that's actually kind of going to be valuable information for you in the future, going, oh, actually that this worked, this holiday programer would ever work for them because I don't know, they went to the pool, or they did went to the zoo or something, and that was written. So let's try and do that again next summer holidays.