Alex Bartle: How to sleep long and well

You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks. Ab me up when.

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Mod all this same mass didn't know it was not swing many win alf.

And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beveridge. By the way, if you missed politics, a couple of fascinating interviews. There were one with Time of Portaco, the Minister for Conservation and Minster Winston. Minster Winston Plade a deeply prime minister, should I say, and look, I am embarrassing my producer, but she just had a moment where she had just had a she just said a moment

Yeah, yeah, that's that's me.

How have you been sleeping lately? I always ask you every time I see, well.

Pretty well? Actually, thank goodness. Yeah. If I can't, I know what to do. That's the main thing.

Well, actually, I've got a quick question on just some really people take me literally. I mentioned about counting shit because you know, it's a metaphor counting sheep, and somebody text me to go, you don't count to sheep, sleep to sheep to get to sleep. And I was thinking that there's someone who's taken me quite literally. But where does that come from? And is there something about doing something a bit mundane?

It's repetitive mundane, and it's not a bad strategy, to be honest. If it works for you, then great, so yeah, doing things that are taking your mind off the fact I can't sleep. I can't sleep, I can't sleep. So counting sheeps, you know, see them going through the turnstile whatever, and or you know, taking yourself on the holiday somewhere.

It's funny. I was thinking I did try counting sheep. I'm not sure if they'd be jumping through hoops over hedges. They have to be doing something a little. They couldn't just be there's a sheep.

No, no, no, it has to be getting them in for shearing or something, but something pretty boring.

Where does it come from that expression?

I think probably exactly that it's a repetitive one two three, there's a sheep nineteen twenty.

Well, I do have a producer who's very quick on her research here while we've been talking, and she has just messaged me saying that some scholars believe that the saying originated centuries ago with sheepherders who couldn't sleep until they had counted all of their sheep to make sure none were missing. And that intuitively makes sense, doesn't it. You're looking after a flock, you can't sleep until you've

Very good.

We want to know how you get to sleep. But if you have a question around any problems with sleep, whether you've got interrupted sleepy wake up in the middle of the night, or you've got you know, you've got problems on your mind, and how do you deal with you know, certain changes that impact your life, I mean having kids. Well that's actually I don't recall having problems with sleep in terms of getting back to sleep. It was just the fact that it was interrupted.

But I guess yeah, interrupted to sleep with children, I mean as they learn to sleep, because they have to learn that process and being confident about it. You know, when you're dealing with an eighteen month or two year old, then it can be quite challenging. When they get to five, six, seven age, they've got lots of melatonin. It's the golden years of sleep. Generally sort of in that pre Puberdah group is a really good sleepers generally, Oh you.

Just mentioned melatonin, so they have a lot of melitony. Yeah, that may instantly, I thought, and there'll be people listening, going, Does that mean I can take melatonin it will help me help me sleep?

No, it needs to be your melatonin in your brain, not melotone and you take into your tummy.

How disappointing. Well, I mean it does inhaling it.

We do use it for asd adhd children who are particularly hyper, and it can just calm them down. It's a soper if you kids a calmer down rather than a it's not a sleeping pill.

By the way, it's worth pointing out, and this is me stepping out somee remit really, but if you go into a health food shop and they tell you that they've got melatonin, it will be the homeopathic version, which is donated one in one hundred times times thirty times. So they delute it one one hundred and delute it, then delute it and diluted, than delut it. It's not me at thirty then delute it, then delut But so it's not actually really melantonin.

No, No, that's exactly right. You don't need very much, but you know, very small amount, but it will all to your circadian phase. In other words, the time when you go to go to sleep and when you wake up rather than being an actually sleeping pill.

Are people's sleep habits. I'm asking for my own point of view because I do overnight talk, but just twice a week. But I've noticed, because I've done had two or three weeks not doing that, that on Wednesday and Thursday nights or mornings Wednesday Thursday mornings when I would normally be sleeping after an overnight, even though I haven't done them, Almost like my body has got a weekly

To a degree, it's going to be that I'm ensure your body gets used to a certain rhythm and who knows.

So the other question I had, and by the way, you can call any time if you've got some questions for Alex, because anything from sleep app now to well the restless legs thing always crops up at some stage. We've got any questions about getting a good night sleep, then we want to hear from you. Or if you've found something that works for you, then you share it with us and we'll and we'll debunk it. I'm just kidding. The other one I'm interested about is and again it

Milk has been the traditional one, and that's got the ideas that it's got trip to fan in it, so that converts eventually to five ourduty trip to fan. It's five HTP you can buy over the counter. Then that goes to five aducty trip to mean, which is serotonin, and serotonin converts to melatonin. So in theory, taking milk with trip to fan and it will help you go to sleep because it increases your melatonin.

The milk does have trip to fan and yes, okay, so you don't need to add in too.

No, no, it's got trips.

Okay, so just drink milk.

Well, but except that it takes probably several hours to get through the system into creating brain melt. And it's got to go into the gut. It goes first part through the liver, then it goes into the bloodstream across the blood brain barrier. You know, the best way into your brain as far as melatonin is concerned, is through the eyes. The eyes, it hits your retina.

What does the light?

The light hits your written It suppresses melotonin, gets rid of melotonin.

Blue light, yes, blue light.

Well outside light light. It starts producing serotonin. And we know that blue green light is very you know, it's good for producing this happy hormone if you like. And serotonin, as I said, converts to melotonin. But it's all happening in your brain rather than through your tummy and through your bloodstream.

And so just to clarify this for me, so when I opened the curtains in the morning, and that's the daylight, is it what kicks in? The blue light triggers.

What it suppresses, melotonin, suppresses, gets rid of melatonin, it starts to producing zerotone. But remember the indoor light is pathetic compared to that door light. So indoor light you know, in an office where we are now, is probably no more than four or five hundred lucks in him, always less than a thousand lucks indoors outside, even on a cloudy day like it is today, it's going to be

And that wakes her up. But that serotonin during the course of the day converts to malotonin, which happens light. Got it. Oh, so unless you've said this before, So the thing is when you get up, you should get outside early on and get that serotonin kicked in because that will also it's like an investment in the bank from when you need to go to sleep.

Absolutely, yeah, that's outside light. What our ancestors didn't have was glare, So they didn't have chilchu buildings on concrete slabs and time academus. They had trees and plants, and so this intense light hits the earth and you're scattered blue green. That wakes us up, makes us feel good and then all that conversed. So when your mum said to you many years ago, for example, your sleep light in their tonight did because you've had lots of fresh air.

You've heard the fresh air. It's not fresh air because you've been outside. It's the light. So, for instance, my daughter when she wakes up, if she's a little bit tired and grumpy and she's open to curtains, she actually can step out onto the deck of she open the door, I should just say step outside for a minute or two, and then maybe we'll get a slightly different atitude when you come upstairs. No thing, okay, we want to hear all your questions on sleep by the wait, sorry, just

Probably not at least it's not caffeinated at least okay, Well.

Does tea have much caffeine and generally black tea?

No, Well, a five minute brew of tea gum boot tea is going to be about fifty milligrams of caffeine. One hundred milligrams of caffeine is a no dose tablet, so sort of linking it to that, about fifty milligrams for five minute group. A good strong brew of tea, dipping it out of a tea bay of an earl gray tea bag is not going to be very much at all.

Okay, And I keep on saying I'm going to the break and take calls. But there's one follow up question. You mentioned one hundred milligrams of caffeine, so a flat white has about one hundred and twenty one hundred and forty, So forget the no dose, just to go and have a cup of coffee.

Absolutely and espresso doubles show to expressed, it's going to be about one hundred and twenty absolutely excellent.

This is great stuff. We want your questions. Of course, we've got plenty of texts coming in and totally what Let's kick it off with the call Terry, Hello.

Goody, how are you right? So I've got good So I've been happy to be marriage for twenty five years and my wife suddenly going through menopauses. It's affected to asleep dramatically. So the side part, or the bad part for me is that now my snoring has become an issue. So first of all, I jumped on a snore app snall lamb. I think it seems the most popular. Figured out, okay, I am snoring and it is quite loud. So the next thing to doing some research found out about the

To be honest, I've not come across as snoring. Where do you wear it?

You were on your little finger.

I'm not sure. I really wouldn't know why that would work.

So supposed to be it's got magnets on the two sides that work with Yeah, I mean half the research is it's rubbish? Half the research, Well, research it's online.

Sorry, right, okay, yeah, no, understood. Well, I mean I can't see why it would work. I mean, the fact that it's getting better is good news. That's fine. There's no question that menopause does interrupt sleep, but it's it's so your wife is, in other words, is much more

Yeah, it seems to be about twenty five percent of the time I'm asleep. It seems to be as soon as I've fall asleep. It's not long after or before I have to get up. Thanks to the times during the middle, not too.

Bad, it seems to be, ok yeah, yeah, and it will vary night by night, yeah, very a little bit night by night. But you know, getting your snoring out just for your own health is probably a good idea and your wife might consider looking at her her menopause or symptoms if she's getting a lot of flushing, particularly which might be waking here in the middle of the night.

Hey, Terry, did you did you do? You know you're not sleeping in the middle of the night, but did you record? I missed that? But how do you know it's just.

Snoring through the.

Yeah, you're basically plugging at your pone. Put it and the records you during the night. And did you recording that? You've got different points you're moving along and listen it shows you a Graand.

Sorry, just dropping out there, mate, But I get it. So I just messed that. But I guess because I was thinking maybe that if he was being monitored by his partner, but where he wasn't snoring was because she had fallen asleep.

Now, the problem with small app as well, which is an excellent app, which is a free app, is that it will measure any noise. So if his wife is snoring, for example, it will measure her snoring as well. So we usually use that when people are sleeping by themselves.

Okay, well that intuitive makes sense.

Obviously it's measuring noise basically, so it doesn't matter where they come from.

Yeah, continuous farting, it would probably pick up as well. Anyway, we're going to take your calls. I eight one hundred eighty ten eighty. Any questions about getting a good night's sleep, or you've got young kids you won't sleep, or you you intermittent sleeper problems, snoring, sleep ap near give us a call. Alex Bartell, he's the owner of sleep Well Clinic, is with us. It is twenty two minutes past four and news talk to you b I eight hundred eighty

Can change find now benders this guy.

When the weather's fine, you go, women, you go, women on your mind, average drink cabageob.

And welcome back.

Well.

That song is sort of about some sunlight, which is how you get the serotonin cracking which gives you the melotone later on, as we understand from my guest Alex Bartle, owner of a sleepwealth clinic. Alex, just before we go to our callers, you thought you might enjoy this text. My husband has a sea pap machine, which as we know, it's for sleep up now and sleeps very peacefully. But apparently I wake them up now because I grind my teeth. What would cause that.

Or tooth grinding? There are a number of issues there, of course. One of course, it tends to be worse when you're stressed. It tends to be perhaps it tends to be a bit of familial. But it's also worse with sleep apnea. So actually treating sleep apnea will actually often help this bruxism or teeth grinding. But otherwise your dentist will provide you with a grinding plate.

We also had a question from someone about that if you have sleep problems as it covered by health insurance.

Not all Southern Cross does n IB That doesn't.

Depends on your cover doesn't.

It doesn't at all. Southern Cross does variably depend on what level you've got.

Okay, so check it out. If you do want to get some treatment and you're worried about the cost of it and you've got health insurance, it.

Gives a ring because the clinic can always check it out for you if you're not sure.

Good stuff, Yeah, excellent, right, let's carry on leus.

Hello you, good afternoon guys.

My son and daughter and I've got two children, a daughter of five, and a half and the granddaughter grandson of three and a half. Now, the grandson is not sleeping past five five point thirty every morning, so come the end of the week, everybody's just absolutely wrecked. He goes to bed at a regular time, he's eating like every meals, the last supper. Just don't know how we can stretch in that extra hour hour on the quarter in the morning.

I'm not sure that I can help you there, because waking time is pretty biologically driven in pre puberty in that young age group. And even if he went to bed at I went to sleep at midnight, he'd probably still wake at five point thirty. Yeah, yeah, And when he becomes a teenager then he'll start sleeping in probably, But at this stage it doesn't matter what time they go to bed, they tend to wake up much the

Hey, lis is he in his own room?

Yes?

He is.

I just remember with our daughters that what might not have been five thirty, but once they got you say, three, about three or four years old.

Is he?

Yeah, he'll be He'll be four next March, so it's probably three and a half.

I mean. The only thing this is not this is outside of the sleep doctor sort of thing, but the only thing. We had a daughter who used to wake up a little bit earlier, and we just said, you know, she knews how to read the time, and we'd just be like, you know, we choose a book before she went to bed, and if you wake up at this time, you are to read the book until x o'clock and then we'll come and see you. I don't know if that helps.

They've got him.

They've got both him and his sister a clock because his sister used to do that but not so and when it goes a certain color, that's when you get up, and they've sort of got that shit for like a quarter past six. But yeah, he's just he's just waking up when the sun the yellow.

I mean, if he lives to be a teenager, then he's gonna he's.

Going to capitalize on his sleep.

But yeah, I suppose that's just his body clock.

Yeah, it is his body clock. But I think that what Tim has suggested is actually not a bad idea, you know, having this clock and as you've already decided, so that when he you know, say when he when the eyes go blue or whatever it is, then they can get up, so at least they're not disturbing the rest of the family.

Yeah, I think, I mean, you've got to it's got to be worth trying anyway. Hey, thanks for your call.

Good, thank you.

Yeah, I mean we did do we say? Look, if you do wake up, darling, then then you need to know that unless you want a grumpy mummy and daddy, then you stay in bed and here are a couple of books you can read. And once the clock turns this you can come and give us a big bag. And I think that sort of works, all works now that they're a bit older, But I don't mind sleeping when they're a bit older. Right, that's top past to fall. Let's go to Doug. Hello.

Hi, I'm a blind person and i don't sleep very well and I've been diagnosed with sleep apnea. In fact, I was waking thirty three times in the hour. The machine is okay, but very uncomfortable with the mask and tossing and turning all night. I've just recently had a hip replacement, so I'm tossing and turning. Now. What I've done is I talked to the doctor, and the doctors suggested that I take a sleeping tablet, a Larrazapan, but only every third night. So every night that I'm not

Any other suggestions, well, depends blindness, and I'm not sure how severe your blindness is, but blindness is a loss of things called rods and cones, which are in the retinas that produce the idea. But these retinal ganglion cells can still be preserved despite that, so spending time outside, unless you've had a nucleation or the eyes being completely removed,

I get very very very sore eyes with glear and outside and I've got a weirds all.

Right read pigment Okay, wow, yes.

Okay, so there is an issue. Yeah, but the sleeping of course makes me very grumpy.

Yes, yes, I.

Live alone and so there's no issue there. But it's the continual thinking, thinking, overthinking.

Thinking, Yeah, what use saying yeah no.

Oh absolutely yeah. But the melotone, and I did try once, but it didn't seem to help me because I'm on twenty three other medications as well.

Yeah, okay, you know, just another one. Yes, I mean melatonin generally, isn't it of course a sleeping pillar? Know would we expect to take it melotone and go to sleep? Well, there won't work like that.

Well, I just had listening to the children with those things that tell you when to get up and go to the head and so on. My grandson had a problem and all he did was pull switch it off at the wall.

So right, well he may have grumpy appearance in that case.

Yeah, they see, thanks for thank you, thanks for quick just a quick text HEREM and my olderly mother has chronic consomner has slipped for three or four hours. Haven't slipped from one three or four hours a night for years. Sleep clinics where you just have a consultation and get some ideas haven't helped. Are there sleep clinics in New Zealand the laboratory based in other words, where you can stay over night and be fully investigated.

The answer is no, not really, There's very few people who actually investigate in do overnight sleep studies on insomnia. The thinking in the past has always been, of course, if you can't sleep, why do you want to do an overnight sleep study when you're not going to when you're going to be awake all night.

Well it's a sleep study and lack of sleep study, I guess.

So people are just lying there. All that would do is confirm the fact that you're not sleeping very much. Now they have more recently done studies on people within within somnia, which has been happening now for the last sort of ten to fifty years, just occasionally. What they found is that people asleep probably more than they think they are, and so it may it may well be that you're actually sleeping a little bit more than the

A lot of the stuff that you've actually seen on the shows rubbed off on me because there's a few times where I've known, you know, when people think, oh, it's been awake all night, and you realize, how on was I really because you sort of you might be awaken. I can't sleep and the cat sleep. Then you actually will drift off for an hour and then you'll sort of come to slowly and assume that you haven't slept at all. You don't sometimes know if you've been asleep.

Yeah, there's a thing called sleep state misperception, which we talk about. In other words, we think we've been awake all night, whereas in fact we've been drifting out of sleep and we don't know that. We know when we're awake, but we don't know when we're asleep. By definition, we're asleep.

Another quick one before we go to the break, and we've got some calls lined up, so we'll get on to you very quickly if you're waiting. Just that question about if you wake up and you are annoyed about waking up. I think your advice was do not look at your clock, right, And I'm about fifty fifty. Sometimes I don't and sometimes I do. Yeah, and I think I've settled on just don't look at the clock. Yeah, unless you're convinced it's time to get up.

Yes, I mean, if it's still, if it's dark and it's the lights, you know, the night of the dawn hasn't broken, then looking at the clock really doesn't help. It should you should be asleep, so go back to sleep. And the alarm hasn't gone off, so go back to sleep. It's just that looking at the clock. For many people, it alerts you, Oh, no, it's two o'clock in the morning.

I'm awake.

Here we go again. Then you look at the clock now it's two thirty. Oh I'm still awake. Well you don't know that. All you know is you looked at the clock at two and you looked at it two thirty. What happened between time? You may have drifted off for twenty minutes, but you can compute that I've been awake for half now. But if you think had been awake, then we often say get out of bed. Often we suggest only fifteen minutes now, just reset back into bed.

I think the other thing is that never look at your phone if that's your clock, because that's not true. I've got a watch. I can sometimes flicker and go, oh goodye, I've still got two and a half hours.

That's good, that's fine. If that works like that, and I do that as well, I can see the time in the middle of the night doesn't bother me. I just say, oh great, I've got another hour or two. That's why I go b Actually.

They are at seven o'clock. You're like, what I've gotta get up? Okay, right, let's say we'll take a break. We'll be back with more calls in just a moment. News Talks. He'd be my guest is Alex Bartell. He's the owner of sleep Well Clinic. Website is Alex sleep Well, sleep.

Welld clinic dot co.

Do excellent, We'll be back and just sick. This is News Talks. Be twenty two minutes to five. Everybody was going five the fastest slap.

In fact, it fat.

And as you know, we like to tie our music into our theme. And I was thinking, what does kung fu fighting have to do with sleep? And as might produce a tie tells me it's because exercise is good during the day. To I'll you sleep and Alex Bartle would concur with that. When you Alex, I would indeed, right, let's take some more Coughse's lots of text and we have to try and move with the bit of pace. Lots of people wanted to talk them and engage with the show.

Lola, Hello, Yes, good afternoon.

Go rang up a short time ago and said his three year old woke up at five o'clock in the morning. I had one of those, and he still like it. He daybreaks and he's away. When I put curtains up in their room and he ripped them down, and he was like a bear with a saw toe all day. And so when he was a baby, if we had capped key by five o'clock, otherwise he'd be going to sleep and he wouldn't eat, and so, and he still like it. Today, goes to bed eight thirty at night

Have to not do it and put up with it. How old he's.

Fifty, I think somewhere around there.

He's what they call a morning chronotype. So the different. He's a morning person, he's a lark, and if he's getting enough sleep, good on him. That's fine. I don't know that shouldn't really worry people at all. Sounds like he gets enough sleep anywhere, which is great.

Oh he's a very had ricker as well. He's an inventory. He does all kinds of things.

And yeah, thanks, I was waiting for I thought she jokingly she was going to say thirty or forty. Exceeded my expectations on that, right, let's more calls Mike Haigh.

Good, I, how are you guys?

Very good?

I've got a simple one. How do you turn your brain off? I get through to about midnight lying bed. I can't switch the brain off. I tried it is it Acmr? You listen to things on the radio with the monotone, and you know that'll go for an hour and I'll still be lying there thinking about what have I got to do the next day or what haven't I done? How do you switch it off?

Well, I mean there are obviously relaxation strategies that people use, but what two things that I call quite like using. One is journaling. So spend a bit of time writing stuff down that's going on around and around in your head at night. So there'll be certain things that you're perhaps on your mind. If you're writing it, externalizing it, we call it. So it's writing stuff down, it's putting it out there, but onto a piece of paper. When

What time do you go to bed, well, midnine, have about twelve.

Yeah, so you're a night you're a night owl as well. So writing stuff down a good hour before you go to bed, Writing down emotional stuff that you can throw away and a bit of a plan for the next day is often a good idea. But learning you know breathing techniques. A bit of exercise stretching is good idea. Not vigorous exercise, but a bit of stretching is okay as well.

You read Mike.

The Toddlers once. If I if I get a book, I like, yeah, i'd I just don't put it down.

See if I get a book that I really like, it doesn't matter that I've read half a chapter, I'm like, yeah, you don't like read someone's really boring autobiography. We'll take suggestions on that. What's the most boring book you've ever ready? Thanks Mike, there's like, well, okay, thank you. I actually found that it wasn't because it was boring, but I got it. When I was in my theatrical career. I was I was learning some monologues, and I read a bit of I was reading a bit of Shakespeare. So

Good idea, how is that?

Let me check the time. Let's go to Wendy.

Hello, Hi, how are you?

Oh Wendy?

Good?

Thanks?

Hi.

I was interested to hear some callers about children that wake up to really when my little boy was about two and a half, he used to get out of bed till about eleven o'clock at night, and I would march him down the hall, go and sit down, and then five minutes later i'd hear him trotting out again. So he didn't get to sleep to about eleven, and he woke ready to start the day at five am,

And given very very good idea. The timepiece that is the trigger for his brain to say, turned to wake up, and his brain sort of half.

Waiting for it, rather than him waking on his own little body clock, which was too early for me. Yeah, he was woken and got used to this and that.

Yeah, it was a large farther good thinking, very clever, and that's good thinking. And the I might even use that myself.

That's quite good. So you basically take him relying off his own body clock and get him used to the fact that all the alarm is going to wake me, and then so he becomes less reliant intuitively on his own body clock and more reliant on something else.

Yeah, an external stimulus alarm going off.

Yeah, I guess one of what it was like. But I always think of what it was like for us when we were before technology, when we're all farming folk and the rooster was making us up. Sometimes you probably just have rooster for dinner that night.

Yeah, you just spent most of the day outside, which of course makes a huge difference to sleep.

What times are roosters crow?

Is it?

Literally? They just the hint, the barest hint of light, and they're they're going seat.

That's probably right to the hell with daylight.

Screw having a rooster too.

Ah.

Anyway, Hey, look we'll be back in just a moment. This is news talk, said b. It is eleven minutes to five, and welcome back to the Week and Collective. My guest is Alex at Bartle. He's the owner of sleep Well Clinic. Let's sleep Well Clinic dot code on it or is it just sleep well dot cod inza sleep Well Clinic? And I said, what was that sleep world clindic Actually just something we were talking about in the break and somebody's texted on exactly the same topic.

Yeah, it's it's pretty common. The first thing I'd say is if you needing an afternoon nap, there's often something wrong with your date, your nighttime sleep because you're needing it. But that depends what age you are. I think once you pass sort of sixty, having an afternoon nap if for you not sleeping so well, that's not such a bad thing. Keep it early, so if you nap after about three pm, it's likely to impact on your ability to get to sleep. So napping a little bit earlier

Okay, or I'll throw a few texts. How long do you need to be outside to get that serotonin cracking shaft the meltoniou syst.

The recommended minimum is about half an hour?

Okay? Is there any problem with taking magnesium sleep on a regular basis? S is Tom.

There's Studies with magnesium are fairly variable. One of the major studies was done on elderly folk who made easium deficient and it did seem to help them a little bit. But really it's not that impressive except that it's got sleep on the bottle, and that might work. That's a pretty powerful trigger for our brain to say, oh, I've taken something for sleep. I can probably get to sleep. That placebo response. It's not being silly, it actually does.

If I wake after oh this is my favor this one. If I wake after midnight. I listened to zb that tends to put me to sleep unless it's tim because interesting. I just read that one out, because why wouldn't I. This is a funny one, just on the noises in the night. I have a grandfather clock that charms every hour, never wakes me. Friends can't believe it, but I understand your brain. Brain soon works out sounds that are okay and not to wake you. Is that true?

Yes, I think your brain has got used to it, and so you will be hearing it, but you'll be ignoring it. I mean, I think it's probably it will go in, but it won't be getting you in.

That must be how people who live in busy metropolitan cities in apartments sleep because there's a certain bus and tram and tooting sounds that you know.

It's it's that, it's the tooting, it's the police car going down and the fires to that will wake you. The general background hum is quite soporific, it's quite sleep inducing, but it's the big sounds.

Well, you've just raised that other one about people who have the white noise for kids and crashing waves and stuff. Is there? What what do we know?

I think that's a good idea. It just blats out other noises in lots of ways. So if you've got to raise this background ambient sound with white noise, you soon tune that out. But it does mean that you don't hear any clicking creaking floorboards, or any little sounds that are going on doors clicking in that sort of thing that's going to wake you up.

Get a I buy a ten mel bottle of lavender oil, Tip it into a five hundred MILS spray bottle with a drop of detergent to disperse the oil. Of course this is detailed. Spray it onto my pillow. Great, but then I play a play a replay of Parliament's debate. Send anyone into the land of not so no a little bit of lavender on your pillow and listening to the latest hits of Parliament.

Right.

I mean, lavender has always been historically the thing that helps people sleep. But they've done studies with lavender and with jasmine and it worked or didn't work in just the same sort of way. So it wasn't that massively helpful. But if it worked for you, brilliant.

Gosh, time flies when you're having fun. I had none of you have fallen asleep listening to the mellifluous tones of Alex Bartell. But hey Alex, thanks so much for coming in and we'll hold you again. But sleep well. Clinic dot co dot nz thanks to him. And if you've missed any of this hour and you've got problems with sleep, go and listen to the podcast and great suggestions and information on it and you know in the end, just don't worry, be happy and off you go. We'll

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