Talking Dangote and Dubai with David

Hey guys, now, welcome to another money space with me, carlu Aja, and this week we're talking this twin topic that I've literally driven a new cycle today in Nigeria. It's it's Dangote. It's of course of Dubai visas, and they're all linked somehow with the money with the government and it has a direct effect, you know, on our pocket. So I only get someone that has really really been tracking this for us, as David, to come in here and just talk to us around this, the Dangote and the

Dubai, the visa issue and all that. I'm waiting for him to hop onto the space. Once he does, I will be able to really start the composition now to hear his own side of it. I have him on side of it, so I'm not sure if he's here. I'm looking at the space because I don't see him. If you guys want, I can start off with my own side of it, and then once David is here,

we basically just make him speak. I'm sure those of pop want to hear if unique take on this whole issue, because he has been someone that has been tracking this down the line. So give me this quick sec My folks are trying to get him to come on on air. Yes, they're sending him a DM already, so just sort of chill for a second. I don't want to start and sort of stop until he gets here. But if he doesn't, then guys, we don't have a normal s and I think we can hear. So give me a quick sect. Yes, all

right, so not to keep you guys just hanging. Let's start with the Dangote issue, the Dangote should we see the Dangoti refinery. Let's start with Danky finally. I'm sure you guys have been falling the back and forth that has been happening with Nigeria the Regulator and Dangote. Yeah, we've got to have been following, and I think it's been rather sad. I would say

it's been rather sad. What is happening when this NewSpace broke. I think it was two weeks ago when we when we talked about Dangote coming up to sertain nine gen. National patron Commission only has seven percent equity holdings in Dango the refinery and that was unusual because I know that the niger NPC Limited had raised about one point three or so million dollars a million or billion dollars billion dollars to invest in twenty percent of the Dango the refinery. So they borrowed

money in dollars with the pledged oil to some to a ten party. It's in there annual report. They borrowed to invest in Dango the refinery twenty percent. It's in the anal report. So we said, okay, it's a good deal. That means that it's going to be a strategic investment by Nigeria in Dangote. And of course that would have now so allowed them because they are a partner with the feat Ones of Nigeria and the Federation to get access to you know, to crude oil to path refiner. So wait, wait

for everybody. Chota will get his capital, Nigeria will get the working refinery and Nigerians will get cheaper petulium products and of course all those by products. Then an NBC so that says it is only several percent. What's happened to the ten ten percent? I think an NBC down the line maybe did not pay the full amount heads that got only get them several percent. So to me, those were shot fired. Then the next thing I think was the

day before I saw a video from the regulator. Mister Farouk is the he's sort of like the new one of the regliciate agencies created when we passed the petulum industry, and he was basically talking about how Dangote number one is not licensed. This is the refinery. This is Dangota has invested fifteen billion, fifteen billion, not naira dollars in the minist refinery's been commissioned by the president. He's been should we say, celebrated across the world. Second lized replying

in the entire world. I think only the one in India is bigger than one in Nigeria. He's been celebrated. So he says it's not licensed and that it's not even complete. He says that are forty five percent complete. That's what the regula is saying, forty five percent complete. Then he then says it's a monopoly that Dangote wants to create a monopoly by asking all the Nigerian companies that buy diesel pms allowed to buy only from Dangote. He regulator

used the word monopoly. Then, of course if the final chill up go. He then said that the take this products are below that the quality of Dot's products are below standard. This is a regulator speaking mind you. So Regatta is tlain you and I. That number one that gonna said not licensed. Number two he's not the the what's it called? He had not completed the refinery. And number three what he's prison right now is inferial. So

it's a bit for us that managed money. I was taken aback that the reculator would say that, because even if everything Regalta has said was one hundred percent correct, should he say it in public in such a forum? Do you know what implication of that is? He just tells us that the riches

men in Africa and the giant government have not seen eye to eye. I don't see that they're going to raise huge capital now going forward from anybody anybody in the world, because I who questioned this, they'll say the reason, what's going on with you? You seem to have a country risk and a government risk against you. There seem to be a narrative now that the government

of Nigeria is actively working against mister Dangote. And it's not just this issue, if you take your mind back, I think it was last year Dangota's head office was raided by the EFCC for tax documents to do with the forest he received from the centerl Bank of Nigeria. If you read that report particularly, Dangotes said he had received the request and he had asked that he brings the document documents who already he was going to build with the documents to the

SEC. And he was still raided. So when you see him being raided, you see him complain openly. There's something going on there. You know what Holding fought for Dangote. We all know the quote unquote the brand Dangote where he's always accused of going in and stifling competition. We are worried that what is going and with Tangos and government is going to affect the FDI flow into Nigeria. So it was an expert David. He's not just a friend.

But if you know David, No, if David tells me to do that that Arsenal would win champions, I'll believe it because now I'm afraid because the guys seem to say things and you think that outlandish. Then after three or four months they happen. You know, they happened. And it's not that he's a magician. He's just simply doing what we call investigative journalism. He takes this fact, takes that fact, put it together and write a

report. So I'm going to have you here, David. Welcome to our money space to be cal David. For those that don't know you, could you introduce yourself before we go into the topics of the day. Thanks. Okay, So journalists who likes to tell the stories that what you wants to tell that's a very so stripped down at a brief lesion, So let's let's

get into it. Excellent devid Less. That as I wasn't about Dante how the story has changed when when I reach out to you, we're just talking about the issue of oh seven percent, twenty percent, That's what it was on my mind that listen you, I know you've written a lot about Danatorsy finding. You said I'm not sure, I don't know we scoot you, but you said to the fact that it's not ready or it's not going to work. I want you to just give me your your take on the directory

finding. What's your issue with it if you don't want me using that word. So I actually major issues with the first Lessonless issue is that they're they lying about the time, like, oh, they've been happy to allow politicians use the timeline to tell lies. Specifically the so called commission on me I think that I did last year. You're essentially commissioning something that was half done.

It was a complete nonsense. It shouldn't have happened because I happened to have people who work there I know are also India course system as people talk, and it was very common. What I said wasn't a controversial thing to see. It was very common in the system. That's for another eighteen months. There's no pressure that's going to come out of this place. It's just not rare. That's not conspiration for some that but because he did, people

hardly needed to cut ein rib before he left the office. So they're happy to use it's half finished in as a you know, as everybon cuttain ceremony for the president that I thought, you know, that absolutely did not deserve everybon cutting ceremony, right because in the first place, even the the the decision to even build the refinery in the first place, and the economic circumstances

that made it even impossible where we had the helping to do it. That this was something that I kicked off in twenty thirteen, and yet you're trying to give having credits or something that happened not to do with it. So I had the problem with that, and I just pointed out that, well, when you were the only this record got the ceremony are doing, maybe you will come back to the real world and in the real world the experts that I speak to, because that wasn't my opinion, it was an expert

opinion. The experts I speak to say that the area is that this place is on a Brittish undiventual it's sometime around Thedon of twenty twenty five, and that's if Iver being optimistic, right. So that's what I excited. I finally became a controversial comment to me. But I mean, here we are then, the story I was told us that you know, for the end of the June twenty twenty three, you know everywhere to do. Well, we're in July twenty twenty four now and nothing is to so but that's like

the less serious issue. The more serious issue I actually have with the Amazury Foundary is that and this is of my opinion. This is from from Dowguage his own actions. He appeared to be trying to do to the US energy industry what he did to the US cement industry, which is essentially Chinese into a one man operation. It was it's bad enough doing that with something systemically

important back cement. For those who answer where Nigeria has a housing deficits, depending on this counting housing deficits of anything from seventeen to twenty million houses. And in large part of the reason why the housing deficity continues to be so large, it's because segments is some of the most expensive cement on the planet. Right, so I dos pay more for segments. So I'm currently in

the UK, I do pay more for segments than breeds. To the minimum wage year in Myra I should be about in monthly term should be roughly two point five million there. That's minimum wage here, and you have in one wage that they've just announced, which I'm sure they are not going to be to actually you know, actually that's seventy thousand. But if you aspaid more for cements than we do, hear, which a justly makes no sense.

And then coupled with the fact that dangle day is the most profitable cements make in the world. So I think it's somebody when it's one actually twisted the data. Our no compltuesa in it to this space. The typical profit back global in the cement industries anything from eight to thirteen percent. Dowglad it makes as much as fourteen nine percent profit. So where you have one entity that

is essentially the market, make a monopoly. So I'm sure a canides worth in marketing make a manopoly it. So it's the type of monopoly that even though technically there are other players in the market, such as the BUA and that farge, but the Ugady is so dominant, artificially dominant, that Unglety

actually sets prices for the competitors. So basically, when you have that one singular entity that is setting prices of cement for its competitors for the entire country, and it's setting prices that are the highest in the world, and it's making almost fifty percent profits. But bad and Nigeria has a housing the ethics of seventeen million, and there's so much in a short Adrea that has love, deals and new there's one person used profiteering off of all of that.

So that's why I said that I've always had a problem with Doug to use this model, and he was trying to export this business model, or he is trying to export this business model into energy, which is even worse, right because essentially what you then have there's one entity, one individual, one man, having so control over the energy markets of two hundred and end set certain prices. That's it. Yeah, that's that's that's a natural national security

where one private individual has that much power. Even the government I thally shouldn't have that much power. Well, one private in the digital have that power. So that was always Those are the two issues that I've always had with that. Finally, as as a concept, gotcha, David, do you have any insight on this twenty percent and NPC investment in Dangote and this seven percent that that was explaining what happened between twenty and seven? Was this money

paid? It was an annual report of an NPC. They raised cash sold use Collatteral of Croupal to raise that cash to be invested in Dangote. Did that money going to voice me? What exactly happened? So the problem you're having to I would like to members your presidents that this person has absolutely no respect for institutions, for due process. Right, this is someone who went shortly after the games the office with that was an appropriation deal without it.

Answer was basically, you know, just writing members and taking money outo accounts and spending it. And it need too we should know, as like nineteen percent to start calling it out when he was writing members and I was just writing a memo, please removed five hundred thousand dollars from the excess with degree and let the accounts. I'm going to spend this in New York. And there's no appropriation, there's nothing, there's no due processor to that. So

that's that. That's how Bullet involved with it. It's not his system to personal aptom. He's an agree to recur. So the problem with that having something like that in power is that things that normally are supposed to be recorded every step of people you started stories. So as he rightly said that money was paid somewhere between where it was paid and wait it was to be received, twenty percent two said, I've made many different vialsums of the story.

I've you know, I've tried to speak to people who are you know, I've had someone to tell me that I should take it to a baby.

Obviously there's no way to prove this, which but I didn't put this out because I can't prove it independent line can't prove it if I won't tell me how to correctly that the difference between that seven percent and that tiny design, which is I think it's over a billion dollars that basically tellable knows what happened to that money, essentially implying that, but I have no way of I

have no way of proving that. But the point is even in fact that it's possible for someone to base such an accusation and there's nothing you can refer to. I can even tell you that I can immediately say no category that this isn't true. I think that says it all. So basically we have a motive backed out and that's who is doing and not doing as this is. So whatever I do process that we managed to put in places ninety ninety nine, it's all coming on stock now unfortunately, so we have no idea

where where the money's got. The NYPEC. Of course you wi to come out and tell us that if the moneys were raised borrowed from there, and any pieces about a sheet we want it NPC, then we should be very very clean if we own twenty percent of Dangote or seven percent of Dangote. Now to Dangote, you've talked about the timelines and the commissioning and all that. Where are we right now with Dangote. We know it's not commission if

we follow the words of the regulator, it's forty five percent commission. We know pms on the streets of Legos have gone up in price. What's the end game? Is the NNPCS refinery going to work before Dangote's refining works. They've said it's going to work next month. Do you have any end game for NNPC refinery Dangote refinery? And if prices are going to come down for

the ORD nine ninety and pain for pms on the streets. And there's actually a sweets that I'm looking for which I'm going to push the thing to the jumble drum, which I think will provide some context for what I'm about to say. Essentially, if you look at the I think the volume of thanetary fives obviously six hundred and fifty thousand miles a day, it's by quite some distance the largest in the entire near regional, if not the entire world.

So there's a there's a there's a graphic from Bloomberg that's it's actually industry that I'm looking forward. That's why I want in that that shows you the difference in capacity to landary finery and then the next largest niche I think it brought

to that. I think it's done by Shell and that one does I think three hundred or four hundred and something that it's such a huge that basically if Dount Refinery were to come upstream fully and do everything that's it has been probably since since twenty thirteen, it will It's not just something that I have an effect on my direct it will create shop waves in the global oil markets that I believe, based on precedents that the international art majors or the existing players,

I'm not going to be happy with that because bear in mind and Done is not part of the existing energy industry. This is its best real foray into the international or markets. So from their point of view is he's not he's not part of their contail. So he's trying to muscle them on their territory, not just muscle basically the biggest, bigger bte than any of them,

Pativity. So my again I've no approving this or my my suspicion is that this very clear antagonism of Simple's government towards the Dary Finery might not entirely just be about look politics that might oblie on seen had internationally. Both volvement here mean that of course we know what in who is and who he represents, right, we don't need to go into that this is because that's not

what it spaced about. But I suspect that it's very like is an element of international involvement here, that the international market probably is not happy with the prospect of that mounting sort of mustling in and reducing everyone is perfectly basically they're probably not gonna be happy about it, So it's probably it's probably in there.

It isn't their interest for the refinery to just get lockdown in this series of disputes and you're never ending controversies so that it doesn't actually actually come to markets. Again. It's very difficult to prove this because the meetings when these things are discussed, nobody takes minutes of us miss that pushed them up by

nobody talks woy reports them. They're not reported in the Guardian newspaper so it's just a lot of the time you have to sort of do an assessment of what is the situation, who benefits, who stands to lose, and then they can make the logical deduction from that, which is what happen to doing. And again, do you know if we all know that a regulator cannot

come out and say that Dangote is unlcensed and is producing inferior products. He just doesn't come out on an afternoon legos and sees it without quote unquote a green light to see it. It's impossible. Hence the question that really, who benefits if there's no Dangote refinery in Nigeria? Is it the importance?

Because it looks like a battle of the cartels. Here you have the IOC cattails, you have the Dangote cattel, then you have the oil the PMS import as cattel and in between this there's a there's a truth somewhere that someone's gonna benefit from Dangota refinery not working going forward. Period. So I just in the suits that I was talking about, so you look at the graphic, Yeah, in that suits, I think I think that the graphic basically

didn't look at the names on the graphic. I think you have the list of edgements that the industry. So good luck to him. I mean there's there's somebody who can take. It's probably a good lot to him. Good luck to him, Okay, I see I say that it's a miles by a wide mile. You see Dangote by a wide mile, So I mean Dango. In banking, Dangote would be referred to as a too big to fail institution witness. If you like him, you hate him, he is too big to fail. I have no currency or no faith in the nnpc's

refineries. I think they're playing mechanical. They're saying it's mechanically ready to refine. I don't know what that means. If it's ready, it's ready, what's the mechanical part or is there a non mechanical path. So if Dangote is too big to fail and the Government of Dangia is seen to be going after Dangote, they can spirosities to tell you that somebody wants to keep on important PMS. If you go to the budget of Nigeria, PMS imports are

the single largest imports or expense in the Federation of Nigeria. It's because Nigeria imports PMS that in naira is weak. We can't build roads and that's been all this bidicul here. We can't build roads and we have a budget deficit. If you stop imports of pms, the economy improves. If imports of pms continue, the economy does not improve. So I gave the question there for everyone to think about. Who is interested in the economy not improving.

Who has removed fuel subsidies and has reintroduced f your subsidies. I think it's true, it's right there. Nigeria is paying about three point five billion, David, that's from ruyters that that was that's a pressure for a will to pay this year. Who is benefiting? And I think that would answer itself if we get that answered with benefitting from Nigeria's continual imports of pms. But David, let me take you to another topic. Still on on Dangote.

Dangote has has a urrea filizer company. A farmer told me that Nigeria farmask still cannot get Uria because Dagote is exporting all that urea outside the country New Brazil to the US to get crude oil. Gargote said the other day that he didn't get any incentive from the federal government when he built his refinery. But I know for a fact that the CBN give Dangote subsidized dollars from the mister Melipilla to build the refinery. Whilst we quote unquote say that Guta should

be given professional shouldn't because it's famous Nigeria. Should Dangote himself be under the microscope because Nisia has built a refinerent with our own tax you know, holidays to him. Should he do more for the countries? My question, what's your take? CBN gave him dollars, he got the landing, he's still got land to build the refinery, but he built a refiner with CBN subsiditals.

At the point, should he do more for the nation. So this is why earlier day when I commented about this, I referenced the examples of Japan and South Korea. Now when they were going into their own industrialization era after the Second World War, they had their own dialotes and they had similar problems to the problems that we have had because of the existence of but they turn their problem into solutions. So instead of trying to destroy their dalgotes,

which you know is going to pause a lot of unnecessary devastations. It's just not in anybody's interesting do that. They were that broad and made them parts of the strategy. So in South Korea have this, I think they call them cables. You ionize some songs who are almost almost literally above itself because of how economically important. Yeah, in Japan there's something similar, so you're

retipecies yours you they have special status. It was a similar arrangement. And the reason they did that was because they understood that there has to be the best of both world. So obviously, if they're trying to build that economy, the most efficient way of moving fast and getting things done is ensuring that the private sector is in charge. However, the problem with private sector is that it's it's it's so motivation is to make money. It's not benevolent.

So sometimes how the easiest way to make all the most efficiency to macmany is not the best. It's not the best in jests of the country. So

then the family, the family can blmit. So we're bringing in the energy and the motivation of private text of the profit the property incentive, but we are maintaining a strong state presence here that this is such that there are certain things that we have to do that required to do by law, such that it's not longer a case of somebody are pealing to anybody's patriotism to do more for the country or not doing more for the country. It's something that's required

by law that you have to do this. I think that even if you're with a serious country, that's what it will be doing with entities like unity because to industrialize, but what are the major economic processes that are needed to be to become a true industrial economy. You need to produce concrete wif you do. You need to to produce energy and to apply energy, which we do or which we are have in urge of dreams. Supposedly, he needs

to be able to feed yourself, which is where the reaffortadizer thing. And

he needs to be able to produce steel. And if you notice what all those old things have common in the number they has either invested in them or try to invest in them, which means that he's seeing he's seeing a similar picture, but not from an altruistic perspective, but he's secretly saving msgurizing psychology that is due for industrialization and it's positioning himself to be the person who benefits the most from it, which is not a good thing bad because again he's

not doing it for the benefits of Nigerians doing to make command to make profits. Right, so if they're up to the Nigerian government to then stepping and make it subsided by law, damage is required to do certain things. Love such that, and then it's not just about taking and thinking because yeah, that's some of my important points. And I dream government has very bad habits of treating private business sites like their piggybags, so you just walk in and

shape them down whatever any money. Then the dream goverment is to see relationship with them or as they some viruses, as a social contract. So yes, you're going to require them to do certain things by the law, but in return there are certain things that you also are certain services you also have to deliver to them, or there's special status that you have to deliver to

them, or there's taxing sentences. There has to be something that has to be quite broc That's how business works, right, That's what they did in career, That's what they did in the bad. There's nothing magic. Is the obvious thing to do. But you know, Nigeria is Nigerias. So yeah, as as they always say, someone experienced a dress, understand the improve experience. Gotcha. Let's let's go to d Bay now to do by the UAE, the visa and all that. You are the first guy that

I saw that. I mean, let's stop. Let's give put the background A long time ago Nigeria, she's able to Dubai, no problems. Then Nigeria couldn't pay her fix bills. So Dubai in a strange way, the Emirates Airline could not get paid at the Central Bank of Nigeria. Forty together had sold to Nigeria. They couldn't get dollars generally portrayed their funds. Emeric stopped flying into Nigeria and the Emorratis sort of tied the Emirates into visas to

Nigeria. So when Emirates left, they also stopped issuing visas to Nigeria. They sort of coupled them together. And since nagu has been in power, he went there. We got there announcement visinars we are going to be allowed given to Nigeria. The Emeratis said, no, it's not gonna happen, so we haven't got to those business back. Now we now heard that we're not just going to get visas to able to Dubai. But we saw a

list of only issues before you put up yours. I mean they're saying you have to put down six and forty thousand dot naira not refundable ten thousand dollars in your account untouched for six months. Then you have to pay with a credit card, not debit card, credit card. So it looks like they're saying no to us without saying no to us. Then you drop the banger.

You basically have said that the this side that's six forty, this was huge, did the exclusive on this That is not even the Dubai guys asking for six forty. It looks like it's our own side taking advantage of this quest for just to travel to Dubai, to create a paywall where people can basically get six and forty different nine gans and just basically siate it and then move on. So give us your what's happened in this dividing place, Yes,

pretty activates. Sorry of what happened, some enterprising goes on with the person. So an opportunity too to live yourself for your life pahysically since appiringly the idea is that you gt him drivel to dubai on leisure purposes are liquid, so let's you know, let's let's get our share, which is which is a common way of making money and drank publicly. So as you as you may know, my dad used to be a single civil service marking the

day before you retired. So I'm very familiar with how this works. Where I was born and pretty much raised within your end government structure, so I understand how the public sector works and ensure how you make money. If you have access to power ed you don't necessarily have to leave in the office, but to have accesses owns in office, you have very good relationship with someone that's in office and you that make some desires. That is how you make

money. Is that state metaphora speak. And there's a road. People have been using this route for decades. There's no problem. They go on the road, the states open to it. You then build a gate and put it in the middle of the road, and I start charging people to pass through the gates. You have created no value whatsoever. H No, the road was there before the gates. The road does not. The gate does not add an invite into the road or to the people buying the road.

It's just the case you put up random charging people for it, and you're going to be a ton of money by doings. That's like the classes in the drum public sector scalp. You create abitrade opportunities by creating inefficiencies or creating bottomnecks artificial where they don't need states. So this is a prime example of that. The authorities when the table reached out to tend they really very recollect

that there. Yes, the reason plan is over, but he's going to apply for the same way always Who to apply for it is that's how you do it. There's a process, and the actual application of the lyra is not not to ninety thousand. That has always been the case, and this is how to do it. Someone looked at that open the road and said, let's build out of the gates because the people who apply this road the people who fly to the by people who have money. So let's build our

gates and let's let's you know, skin some of the top. I guess the mistake was instead of skimming off the top in the classic you know, classic like here and breed. Instead of trying to build the cow, they rather try to cut open the other cow basically, which is outcome. It even raised so much suspicial I believe it. It's like mayf they admit, like twenty nobody noticed nobody nobody really have noticed or even liked it. Or

because it's that kind of like noticeable amounts. Nobody child uses the amounts for it for this application, not the U what where is that coming from? You know? For it for if this does design? Nobody does that. So it was actually all that, you know what, I have no way of proving this, but I'm sure that this money is not going to be government. And I thought, that's an interesting hypothesis. Let me go down this rabbit hole bit. You know it was. I was literally in bed

on my phone. I wasn't I didn't plan it to be a story or anything. I was just sort following the rabbit hole. So I checked out the website and the first thing that jumped out jumped out of the page that he was that this students that attend to miss misrepresent something because the the official website they always ended dot golf dot. Everybody knows that. But this website was document reputation of dot A is a private domain. Anybody can only it's

not a domain. So this is a private website, which is so how being cleverly is represented as a government website. There's no reason why you a government application would run on at domain. It just wouldn't be the gold. So what's really going on here? So I got interested and I just basically who is scarm advised? So I just wanted to know what was going on here? The first I think the scinmon advice that that that I came up first, And the first thing I saw was the actual owner of these domains

hiding their identities need aid service. Then I was like, okay, I really want to know what's being so I went back. I really followed the rabbits so and then I eventually found in a domain registry where the name of the person who rested the website was listed and it's some Canada for the goal show on goof So moved who is this person? And checked out this link team? So Gay is the CEO at company called Spanish it Comy called for

his school, so who is Global School? When the DOWNDRA people checked out the website, first thing I noticed, this is a Spanish IT company. Most of them is that why is that? Okay, checked out, They're about just page and I checked out. You know the guy, you know, he's on article on the website, and I realized this comedy is basically the Spanish Spanish version of alphabetter themselves. It's a it's a government revenue for them, that's what it is. And there's a government revenue fund that that

specializes in African durist. In fact, the company only appears to work only in Africa. So, like all, at this point, all the alarm started arranging that this is clearly there's clearly someone in the private entity and that you're behind this that has misrepresented it's private revenue for them and private websites as

the Ue government process. I somehow the Minister of Information and the Ministry of Information of official media platforms have put this information out and you know, someone's people are going to start paying into this platform which has nothing to do with the Valy government. So I nearly raided them out and I put it out

there. Yeah, and that's basically what happened. Then the cable, I think a few hours day, the cable then reached out to the lady industry to sort of do their own secondary verification, and you is the official statement

I came back to the indust in which I think said it all. The statement basically said this does not have a thing to do because why I'm aware of this, which is not sachromatic language, right because normally they you know, they wouldn't want to cause embarrassment to the account practic government, so normally they would just for for you of sometime need to respond that I will say anything. But in this case they said openly, this has nothing to do

with us, which is it? You know, it's a dramatic way of saying whatever is very not saying people are the government, it's you know, but please don't involve us of the storms, which again I think that's about am delig gomny one thinks of my care and governments right now, gotcha tell

me, David. I wanted to go deeper at this. Who announced this visa, this visa six forty was it on the government website and the joint government webs that has not to pay so the I have actually gone through the payment process because I'm not I don't to waste my save the kay on finding out who is behind something. However, I did say it's on who appinally did go through the payment. And apparently the payment gageway is is fluttering with

okay, which I think tells the story on it. So so clearly this is an actually everything so flutter away. This money is the fla. But who's getting the money in Nigerian government? Government ask Nigerians to pay that.

I'm trying to guess who actually produce the government that's the that'st the thing's a private tents to get a private entity, okay, but the minister of idea the idea is and so I'm guessing what happened is that the U have told the Nigerians a part that the large part of the reason why we imposed the back, It's be those people are coming to the Nigerians are coming to the

documentation, which to be fair, what's a thing towards the problem. So you have to find find a way of filtering out fraudulent the applications of or of fraudulent documents before they get sent to us, so that we don't have

this prog going forward. So I'm guessing what the Nigerians are then told the counter critis okay, we'll set up it documents, the edification system to ensure that only legitimate applications constable to you, which is why the u A. If you notice the u A and PASY actually retweeted to the post from the Minister of Information because they probably didn't see anything, but they probably didn't realize

or some you know who you involved there. But in the midst of all, there's somebody enterprising Federal has realized, Okay, there's an opportunity to to there's an arbitrad opportunity. There's a chance to build a pit where it doesn't need to exist, and there's a chance to make some money out of this

thing. So you have this unknown private because we still don't know who they've ultimated the official private entity is. All we know is that women need to is food with the men funnel is Global Voice Group which works with this pseudo pseudo public you know, entities that raise money from this or the processes, and we still don't know who the actual may beneficiary. Someone links to someone that suggested I appreciated you know who, I have no way of knowing.

You're verifying that someone close to the power. Yeah, so I so David, I can't pick up and say I want to process us visus or uk Bi stas or Dubai pizzas. It's not possible. So somehowever, visit for a different country. The Nigerian government must approved me to receive passports otherwise, So when I'm trying to go is to tie soon in government to this six forty because there is not even the person in the ministry that there has to

be immigration. There has to be soon. As I proved that you can do this through this app the minister tweeted it said we're back on getting business with you usually do bad. But who I don't know? But who is there? Who is the person that actually sold this? You've uncovered the pretty, the small behind the curtains. We are but who is the president actually sold? Is it the Minister of Aviation? That mean the official person? Who is that person? Do you do you have an answer for that?

No? I do not, Okay, all right, So what's happening now? I saw the Dubai guys do a clean up and say they that their total cost for their visa is not in effecting. It's not all that ten thousand dollars for six months and all that. So if I want to apply for visa today, do I still need six forty? Do I still has it been taken down? Or are people still paying to this shadowy guy?

If you're gonna, if you're gonnapplay for what you said interesting, ignore whatever then said, go with what the you government said, because they're the ones who was a chance to say what you shoot interesting. We're friendally for fighting you, David. That's quicker breaking news. I'm readly online that Dangte has asked the NNPC to buy him out. So he's offering the six hundred and fifty billion refinery to the NNPC. That and I'm quoting him. Let the

NNPC buy me out and around they're finding the best way they can. They have labeled me in monopolis. That is incorrect and unfair legation, but it's okay if they buy me out. At least they are so called monopopolistly out of the way. Interesting times natua An episode doesn't have fifteen billion, And I think this is sad. And this is where I was going to when I when I saw this news, and I said, I was going to buy NNPC refinery, but I'm going to pause till I see what's happening.

This is what I was afraid of. Clearly Dagote is getting out. I think these comments have got into him and I think he realizes he's not fighting the reculator. I think there are four sys that are fighting him, and I think he has Trawn in the top. Well, the best is one person. As we'll say, NA there was any comments on that, well, I'm struggling to take to take that, because that's that's actually a lot.

So first of all, even if the NBC has the money, which it don't, I don't think there's anybody who is exactly excited at the prospect of navistaking that because I think the entire reason why the muti refiner eiders exist in the first places because we all agreed. But after decades on the still around Intus after the rounding, and that's it's clear. But the NBC has the intention of actually running the governments around the finding. They have no intention

of doing that. So if the NMPC were to act, if this is actually happen, this will be actually very very very very bad. Yes, and that is become like the other four Basically Jesus H. Christ, David spelled the whole space of you know, I tweeted at Jacuta and Dangota refineries. The parils are so similar it's unbelievable. A Jacuta is failed today because of location. Who are important critical elements? We didn't have the critical elements

and of course just regulatory incompetence. How can Nigeria explain to our grandchildren that someone built in fifteen billion refinery and we're talking that the person is not being celebrated and giving a knighthood, is selling anything. That that's the guy is the toll man. So we've done landmark. The landmark guy came from abroad, invested money in Nigeria. Look at what happened to him, Dangote. No again, no matter what you said about the guy, he invested that

money in Nigeria, look at what's happened to the guy. So who will now wake up tomorrow and go and borrow a billion dollars and invest in Nigeria. This is my fear, my fear, David. We have a lot to put on to ask you questions. Allow me to start to add them, to make a comment and to ask you questions if you don't mind, Yeah, let's start with doctor, Obia raary. Doctor, you've been here, you've heard David walk us through the Dubai visa. You've also heard the

Dangote issues and all that. What's your take? Let me also get your own take on Dangote. I get the point about Dangote being a quote and quote. You know, I want it all, But what's your taking? Was going he's now offering it busy to buy him out. It's like the man wants to go retire Ellen unusual doctor, what's your take? Thank you Carlo, I thank you David for the good job you've done. And uh,

card of the truth is you know you raised an issue. You said one of the reasons why if we continue important pms, I wom I not be able to build roads. We are not building rules, not because we are important PMS. We're not building us because half of four week clear. To be important criminal is to look on out of Nigeria. We will situated web Can in Nigeria from nineteen nineteen ninety or now the first time in the history of this country that we're saying as escorting good area, I'm not seeing

the money is coming to the area. Are important? What was never an important intus country staped under Johnada and assume their master's proportions under the Boy region. If you looks me the reasons the way he became president did not invents and other economy output then was at about one point eight billion bad say they heard about we did not have any huge careers, but only had about five billion dollars three point nine billion. The last of that I came back.

We had a huge external death, but that the two billion I was onside the sevel. We What obasad your did was to and after that time the buyelof Kudi a breage part of Bilot could in between nineteen naty nine. In two thousand and they three Abascas first then Mother by the high as well backty five dollars partout. Pid k was saying, that's seventeen dollars thirty five cents. But what Abasa your did was very simple. Albas adele is not enough.

You will not drink him to be anxiety or by a sabas as much as portable. Ensued that our could not study and by the time their party was able to rappit up about two point two million ballets a day on the

downstream sector. Abassenger also ensured that that we are doing the pages like we had on that disjiourney and then the criminal by the and the bandit that we have now in power under Obasad job from nineteen nineteen ninety two thousand and seven, the highest we spent important white palle but the PM about twenty eight million meters a day. That was our consumption. Then I remember an the passage

job. Between two thousand and five two thousand and seven, we had a very boyant middle class population of almost about three million Nigerian school have fought in home of about one twenty to one sixty thousand dollars a yea. It was a time that year were migrating from the world street to come out of work here that had We were coming from Europe, from every part of the world. Because the passa job was able to pay off our external debt after negotiations

New talk is love of forty five billion dollars. We were paying subsidies, the parents were working there. There were a lot of theys being done in Nigeria. Basically what has happened and which we must not do. Sight of an APPOSITI with you started in twenty fifty. We are not good deals because

our code they are still in it like switch were doing that. An ALGORBM to our output was two point four million ballers in day would have condescens the it would catch a cree and when it became the Minister of State and the NNPC BND did a study and came up that our actual added the consumption was between thirty two two that's eight million liters a day. This isue of where

in partices sixty million liters one imports too. One million letters we are posuiting a day was actually part of them a game or the gangster where they brought them both. So our tosses with this web. Our total daily non stiddy in Nigeria is not more than that eight million a day. Even as that February, the PA which is not the lm VPR ray told that our daily because consult was that eight million. Even that that eight million was being contested.

If you look at all that develope economy from the US to the UK to even South Africa, it would have our lebord in countries look at the average condoms figure as had two thousand and two, the US daily consumption on P fourteen billion one part four billion liters a day. If you look at this trajectory from two to two and fourteen, look that the daily consumption never shifted appost five percent. It is defending across the auto missions from the world

development or non developing. Nigeria is the only place that the daily players consumptions who it was said with five percent over in period of forty because of one thing. Most of these days the important that yeah have not been important and yeah they are still in stops on top of it. So basically what you're

seeing happens. It's a very purportant. Why like I I I look may not to be like we said the normals beakers fan business man, but to is a'm the most conste to him of this man has invested their Nigeria. This man are like others that are going to do bye to them by properties, by hotels everywhere South Africa. This man has invested his blood and in

Indianazia economy. And as much as some of us may not agree with every of his business practices, but one thing you will give to him in that patro that designed to invest everything that leg which has valuable orlike the kind of people that we have at an NBC and PR even those group of part governors in insane clients that day that has been made that what is in clients the same way a message is being cot in is the way that those in when

I've been a wrestling, I've been cod from what day have thought over the last eight years, you know, the two tastes like but the refers. We would always say, this is the fight that is beyond the normal fights.

If you play now, is actually a fight of interests being those who was to Grandpa of the Islanders and this man who has sunk in his investments and who is also trying to control the industry in the ballistic persions, but the fights it's not for each and and I just with that post one day even everyone of us would agree to have a government that will have the interest of as like I mean, I mean, David is we're saying this casually.

But the guy invested fifteen billion and that guy's walking away, walking away from that investment, or wants to work with an investment fifteen billion? What are we talking? You know, do you guys understand what was going on? Who will invest in Nigeria? Who ken happen here? David? Yeah, I mean nobody. I mean's this is nobody. Let me give you a story of that. But this is when I was in secondary school. I was watching under a Butcher's government. Mister Antonia Annie was giving the budget

speech. I said, giving this story for it's a true story. Mister Antonia Annie was giving the budget speech. And the budget speech mister Antoni and this is the budget has been released and he was giving the breakdown of the budget. He's setting that projet speech. The import of rice has been banned. When he said it, there was a more and more more in the crowd than he continued talking. Give it about thirty or forty five. And it was a live show. Someone came from Antony Andie and gave him a

note. After any ready notes, put the note down, kept on talking and says, I want to correct something I said. Imports of rice has not been banned. Go and look for this is it. I watched this thing live. If you don't know, mister and mister Dangote made this money from the imports of rice. So essentially doing a budget speech, the Minister of Finance announced that that rice has been banned. He didn't say there it was in the budget past by the president the head of it then, which

was a badger. A badger banded rice as they were talking. They gave the Minister of fancying notes and trying him to unband right as it was talking. So all the budgets provisions for that year. Of course that's gone on live TV. But in twenty twenty four, Diagtia says, I can't fight whatever power is fighting me. I want to get cashed out. I'll go

back to my whatever to import or whatever. I think that's what's going on this country now that Dangote cannot do business in this country in this climate. Ken, what's are you mind? Thanks David Seious, thank you for the opportunity. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. To be honest, I'm not

I'm not happy to. I mean when I when I saw these events unfowarding the estd and you know followed kingly the development of this on this repinery ever since when when I'm announced it, you know, and give that entire view with Richard Couest on CNN, I'll be following to know exactly how do you find out has been uh being is being developed? And you know, yes, I have people that work there and you know, I'm an engineer.

I understand the technicality when when when these people talk and what what what what it entails? You know, what I've heard with regards to the development of that complex, you know, shows that they are issues. You know, they are technical issues, engineering issues, and that is fine. It's not the problem. You know, when you when you when you when you develop multi billion dollar projects, they are complex. You know, challegists can't come

and you can you are there to solve them. But what I see here, to be honest and how you and and and everyone has spoken and everyone listening, what I've seen here as a plectratical engineria. What I see here is, you know, there the issues on ground that is not being addressed by by by the down A group and for Ugulito and and and the dual Midstream and Downstream Petroleum Regulation Agency to come out an issue that statement. It

is waited. And the reason why I say that is that this refinery before it even started construction and the must have been h done and implemented and signed and approved by the Federal Administrative Environment and that the yeah, it will set certain limits. Letting stand that certain expectations and specifications with regards to the products that will come out of there and and how it will affects the environment those so that it is built up now for for this, for these leglitos to

come out and see that it is coming out from that complex. The wo was that imputs what what what what's this mean? From outside? And you know, Carlo, outside it on one of your spaces that the digital we get from Europe is the detest in the world. And I and I explained your origin to that, why why it is and there's a market for it,

Let's have it quickly, Let's have it? Yes, yes, So so to be honest, to be what's what I'm going to see is that is that the group they're saying that what they need to need for correct to correct a mistake, the engineer mistake to bring this products to where they're supposed to be. It's going to cost a lot of money and not willing to and let's not forget. Are you saying as an engine all mistake Carlo, like I said, I don't want to say many things. It's something that

is evolving. And now have people that have worked there and the yeah, you know there are some things, there are some things that you know. I I heard over two years ago that to be honest, I there are things that can be solved. Yees going to what they can be solved. This is in the multi billion dollar things go wrong. When things go wrong, you can fix them and you'll be fixing them at that point. Yes, it's going to be expensive, but the duty is on you to fix

them. For ability to come out and tell you that you're pre commissioning pre commissioning doesn't fast. They still commissioning. What this man did the last time we bory. It's just said for a show that's all commissioning, you have to do precommissioning. You must be issued certificate before you go sit to the next pace, which is commissioning. So for them to come out and see they're only forty five percent goes. They've only done forty five percent of the

pre commissioning I just did. Since they did the official I would say on official commissioning. Yeah, I meant talking about more than nine months, more than twenty months, and the issue has still not be sold that there is issue still. Yes, by saying it's an engineering issue, I now have to pull that tread. I'm going to pull that track never thought about that treade. I'm going to have to pull that trad ken. David just sn just sent me that the the the link to that visa is still on the

minister's ex account. So the Aviation Minister still has the link that includes that six forty NIRA. It's still his x account. So this was the question that I was really trying to get to. If the Minister Minister of Nigeria has that link on his ex account, that's an endorsement and the minister cannot tell us who is getting that six forty you have. But can the minister tell us who is getting paid that's six forty thousand and if he has any

interest in that's six forty thousand. I'm not sure if David will comment on that. Lets So I was I was accepting to go, yeah, well, I thought, what I think is happening is what in the Jungle mentally does when when it's caught with its band style and it doesn't actually have any difference and it can't achieve your lying or something, it just covers his eyes and just happen. So Ever, since the the amorality authorities came out and

said that this website has nothing to do with them. There has been no statement, no response, nothing of their enduring governments, no attempt to play, nothing. It's just because there's no way, there's no way to depend it. They've been caught in the middle of its car and there's just no way to defend it. So it's just it's just quiet and eventually people forget. Now, if the reason goes back into this streets that's in itself,

we'll say the story that's an education that even cuts. So it's just this way the people their attentions and is very short. Even forty is over on something else. I'll get right, we have been on something else. But you're gonna pay six hundred and forty thousand. You can't go into something else if you're paying six hundred and forty thousand. I right, you don't even know where it's gonna go to. That's gonna be whenever you pay that amount

of money, it's gonna be top of mind. That's that's essentially it. It's gonna be top of mind. David, Let's get a worlder. I don't know what legiohn crowded. Can you go down into the question what are you mind? We're talking to buy we're talking Dangote. Lots of breaking news. Also see President Biden has also dropped out of the race and has endorsed Kamala Harris someth that that means anything to the space, but it is what it is. Are you ready to speak? John Crowder? All right,

I can. You've got the floor. I can. Let's go. Yes, thank you for bringing me on. So I want to say some some things. Personally, I don't have any sympathy for the one imp. I think all of what he's doing currently is spectacle. It is it is a It is a game that he's playing. He's riling up nationalists or nationalistic further nationalistic feelings to to basically answer that I, Asurians aren't asking the important questions. First of all, this is not the person. Thank goodness, you

mentioned the whole thing about the right importation. You and I know that what needs to happen is any industry he gets into, you find funny things start to happen. Then somehow they bring up something the government bring us from They say, oh, for that reason, these soupled people can only import or these people you can't import into the country, effectively giving him a monopoly. They would give him implicit explicit, usually implicit subsidies in the case of the

refinery, then they use the r effects give him a subsidized rates. We had the old thing of the Evenly land that was the imports of yes, seven times as large as as large as a v I. But then the question you manage to answerself, did they do the environmental assessment tests? Because now they're selling properties around that area and everything they do they need full in terms of environmental assessments, that people are not staying around and all the other

polutional issues. We don't really know all those things. Then Goodness can raise the issue of of of engineering issues him is he's rising up nationally sentiment and unfortunately we are getting a lot of Nigerians unfortunately. I will add David to part of this that are literally buying what he's seeing, who plan and sinker. I'm not trying to attack David doing I'm just trying to say that you even get the press being with him, he's saying things like, oh,

he's not in Monocole, He's going to live. Sorry, he's truely his secrets. This is his secret. He's not going to leave the market. He has it's like this song course is true, not for him for him to just see I'm open and leaving. He's doing it. He's good continue

in the market. He's trying to give the government to protect him from foreign competition, which we can deal things like bringing feeling to the coup of that couple of people that I entered the markets and all these other things so that if wied to replicate, if the the supernormal profits that they have been in semens in oil. We also know this that if you look at even things like spagetti, you see some of the other things that they even do.

These are not like yes, he's not the top producers, but most Nigerians don't buy those those things that his companies making is because they feel that he's not the top quality stuff that that that they're producing. And with the issue of cements, were told them that all protects these guys do we improve production, we increase this increase that last year when the government called them in the the the whole is it three or four of them for mixing because they height

the price of cements, they promise to bring it down. They brought it down for a bit. He also promised that they're going to increase production. They do know they've been saying this thing for years or point years or point years. They're literally creating shortages throughout the nigern the commun And it's unfortunate that a lot of the things that he has been doing in the past is now coming back to bite him because now we're having the worst inflation since the child

era. So of course he can't really hide becoming from easily cut him to side. And I'm glad that he's being called to side, but I can I can define custo size. What's going on. The guy hasil so so this thing, so this thing is he has built the binary doesn't mean he needs to get him new police. It doesn't mean that he needs to get professional. For other ok just pushing back in conversation. Okay, okay, for others. There's one we're talking about for other refineries, for the refiners

that really are barely working. I think the last because that's but who owns them? But you know, you know who owns the marking, sorry and lun jobs. You know who owns them and NPC. So the guy that owns four refineris that ground them to a halt? Decided kissing the guy that does come on the block that he's a monopolis. If the four epariners were working there, we monopoly just like that, pushing that and certaining him where

to fall. The truth is, the truth is the trues. If the four refiners are working, he monopolice because it will find ways, you'll find ways of which they're going to limit competitions. How would he like, like you know again again, but doctor I get you. But doctor by just said, the man is not static bound again. When he came to Cement, he said that there was only a shaka and fag. That's why he could come in and to do out capacity and become the market leader. That's

what he did with Cement. So when when he goes somewhere and there's no one there. He tried, he wanted to banking, you know, he went into banking. He won Liberty Bank. He left because they couldn't take those competitions good because competition So when when when? So the point that making that the part making acting that if n NPC had four functional refineries and he brought his, I would there not be competition? The te why they will

not be competition them word, they will be competition. So the thing is he first of all will have more capacity and capacity than than than as two or three of them put together, so you will have equip have a capacity advantage, meaning that he can he can how they can charge, so he can leverage his economs of scale to chid at lower prices and probably for a certain time it's into market. Sha. But but does it a bit hypothetical?

The thing also to is that he's complete about who's not being given oil as as as his agreement with an even when even when part was going to to to commission the refinery last year or even two years ago, there were already rules that were taking now that we're backed by by my Drea's control play. So this is not something that you just seen this year. But he continued, and I can't know just again, work to move on, right, but just making the point again. And I have made that point that

n n PC owns for refineries. If n NPC's refiners were working, there will be no monopoly. So nn PC has grounded refiners to a halt. And I'm now accusing this guy of running monopoly. Let's assimilar correct and that God is a monopolist, He's only in monopolice because n NPC's refineries and not working. That's the point. I'm naked, that's the point. Okay,

So we planned to add something. The thing is that while while I agree with the governments, the current government about how they're actually exposing him publicly and actually because he wants to do the old media toward use the media to try to put a total this sort of pressure campaign against the government, I like the fact that they're also taking in the media putting Where the government is missing is that if you're going to go about and start to expose Hiss, the

engineering fords and the fact that he's giving subsidient, substandard products out and everything, you should also bring a viable path of how I want going to ensure that that's what gets the fineries working. I we're also going to end show that we are being seen as just as all starting him specifically because now I'm

hearing people say things about why should people investment? There's so many good reasons, and I don't think this is necessarily amazing why people na I can't Okay, it is being communicated on Bluebert from starts put something is not to invest still, but no body people are saying, that's that's that's a lot of the reasons why these issues with because of his possible He doesn't it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. This since you're saying don't matter.

The twenty four year old in America that runs the Blueberg terminal wants to invest in an emerging market. He doesn't know Dangote, he doesn't know. You doesn't know I when he goes and he sees a news items that the richest man, it's like Warren Buffett saying that he's pulling out of Geico or Cura Cola and winch a company in America. If you while if you I can't hear that. War On Buffett is saying, all the US shares to invest in Japan, would you go and invest in the US. This is where

these things have important. What happens to them? I can, I can. Let's move on, I can we have it doesn't, it doesn't matter, It doesn't. The American government, they are the American The American government tackled Capital, Capital, Oil, Rockefeller and broke into eight part. They did not destroy it. They broke into eight part exon can movie and have all those conn now today. Clinton did not destroy Microsoft. They broke down. They cannot put your your explorer and make it. Okay, let's move

on exposing. Can we have a can? Can an irregulator cannot go on air and say the largest single investment in his own country life? You don't, and that's what we're saying. I can, Okay, I think you can expose him. They've already raided him with taxes. Right his head office was raided. Do you know what to read an office means? It's already on Bloomberg that Dangote's office was raided by the tax authorities? Have they raided

her name? Let's list the comment nature have been readed? Let's list them? How many comes to be raided Nigeria. But Dangote's head office was raided by the e f C C. Come on, we're not kids, so we know what's going on. Let's I think let's I think we have to move on. I think we have to move on. I can. That's good. I cannot help the mic. We have to move on. That's that a G A. You've got the floor. OK. Let's have to just actually move on. Hi, we're talking, Yes, we are,

we're talking to Dubai. We're talking to Dangote. We've got David on tap with us. Do you have a question for David or comment, Please go ahead, let me just speak to speak to on the Dangote issue. Making one man feel as safe it's in savior. I don't think it's a good way to look at it. Since nineteen ninety nine from a person enjoy yard to what's name good luck and recently dangled had been given undue advantage in terms of the economy and its businesses and what a view, Okay, I would

from my from my point of view, I would expect more Dangotists. You can't just have one man who has year in year out being the richest person in Africa. It doesn't stand away from you know, from that word view. Then coming to the refinery, I believe that that refinery is not completed. All the commissioning that was done at the time of where it was just you know, uh, just a show. If he has anything with the regulator, I believe they can sit down and iron things. Okay, the

refinery will work at some point. But because of the pressure we have with you know, meeting expectations and all that. That's why they keep saying, No, it's going to be in July. Tomorrow is gonna be love us lest tomorrow is gonna be in September. You know, I don't think it needs to. The projer is kind of too much. They should hold on. Refinery is not just plug and play. It's a very complicated. A year away that before Than got his refinery, they were about thirty eight refinance

already issued to build rEFInd in Nigeria. I love the guy gps Pain, I can hear you, but at the point I'm trying to make is that you know, yeah, that has a I would tell him as he has. He runs his business with mon pols. Think that's I don't think the one part I pity for him is this Nigerias don't take the risk that he tastes. Or Basenger said. If or bas just said, we are going to stop stop import of bad cement. Dango did not have one single cement

factory. He didn't have one. We had Waco, we had the hold up. But but but but I'm going there. But it better was important with everybody else that was important, it better and everybody else were important. Or Basin just says we are going to stop import of bad of bad cemen. So whitmans go and build your local cement factory. Yeah or Bason just

said it. Dangote had zero factories. Dangote took loans and built and cement factories and bought P C. C Woco and became the largest cement manufacturer there. Used to no other country you will go to on Earth where you have an established market player would allow an entrance director was a branch new entrant to cement. What were the other guys doing when he was building capacity and not defending the guy? But what was Wako doing? What could had a shaka?

They had it? They were called fast right? What were they doing that allowed this quote unquote small boy to build a cement's capacity and now become the largest cement manufacturer in Nigeria. When Dangote this is an opening, he takes it. We've agreed his practices, we know what he does, but why do they allow him to get in the first place? He was going to do? Still, he almost leeds us to match to consistent in Nigeria.

So he he yes, I think his doctor Jagula, mister Hyde, you know, we we can bash him, but who else built the refined in Nigeria. Before Dangote, there was a ten batary refinery in the top that was it. Now he has built this one, wants to build all that guy's want to build. I didn't want to inmost it now, but why are the rest built? That's just yeah, I understand where you're looking

at it from. But mind you, you should know that one of his competitor, attind that was last year, released a series of pre statements telling that I'm going to head on you advantage if you read that. So if if he who is also the dollars like he comes out and start crying, who am I to start defending him? I don't think. I mean, I'm at that place too. I see it. I hear you, I hear well, yeah understand, But I feel that he's done well for himself.

If I'm giving that opportunity, I believe I would do the same if I'm giving the kind of you know, government support, tax break. So final final comments, final comment that let me just say this final comment on this dango and again, right before Dante, there was a guy called Irisia. There was a guy called Ato, there was a guy called Merib's, a guy in Borno and this this was the quote unquote dan Gotti's before Dangote him, Before Dangote came, we had all these people that in Nigeria that

you know, I actually was on supplying yams to Echoborg. You know, they made a lot of money at made a lot of money from the government of Nigeria. This was the what we call the Robert Barons, not that American rob but but they read Robert Barns in Nigeria. None of those guys, can you go and point to a factory that they have in Nigeria and there are many of them. I just quoted about four of them. Now none. I think what Dante did that I would give him a sort of

like that. He actually started to go from this consumption, was doing imports, was doing imports right of sugar and rice. He started to build factories in Nigeria, and I think he showed that if you invest in Nigeria, you can become the riches man in Africa. Dangote was look at. Remember Dangote was an importer of rice and sugar. He wasn't a rigious guy by a mild He got rich from cement when he sold thank the cement and the

stock market to Nigeria's. That's when he became bloody like bloody, bloody, bloody rich. Before then he was in what other Nigterians do you make one like Devid has said, you build a gate, you tax the gate. The old already built. So everybody saying if I'm giving, if I'm giving right now, there's not just stopping anybody from doing what he has done. Like I said that eight like this is for refineries. Nobody built it.

Nobody builds in petrochemical plants before him. They want that Nigeria built. Know what happens to it. Nigeria built the petriical cup at the Lema, then we killed it. Then Indians came to Nigerian bought it. Today that bland not called in Durama is now one of the largest generators of EFEX for Nigeria. All the Indians did was coming and invested in it. If Dogota had

done this exact same thing, WOU called Dante in no place again. It is hard to see lizens that I'm saying because he looks like we're depending Dangote. I know David has really listed what his issues with Ante. It's hard to say this looks about defending the guy. But we've got to call it. It's a speed here. The guy looks like he's been targeted because somebody wants something from him, and as fused to play ball. I mean, I get all the comments to make it, but it just feels that way.

Doctor. I see your hand is up. David again, if you want to speak, you're a co host of please interject any time. I don't want to look like it's just my face. Doctor over, your hand is up. Did you want to have a Did you have a comment to

make? Yes? I think I don't want you to be as if everybody's against Niko Dang and you know he's not asking for the only aspect of it is quite that if I so offensive legal asking for the stop page of importation of white petroleum products by other players in then not remember this an industry that had an ecosystem over fifty billion dollars. I plod over our million people across

the value chair downstream value chair. If you look at misially public which is our netor never, they have only one five that I fin output of us two times their daily white plum consumption. They produced two times for the consume yet they did not ban importation of white put into their country and they are

fully regulated. Basically what I think we should be doing. Governess supports him, and what is the idea of supporting him If we are doing two point four million, two point five million ballats of kudlay just like we were doing before park In with his hand columbs, there's no wood that provided him with enough cu to one that refinery. And that's the truth. We should not forget the man. The main issue here is that we are not producing enough

cute to be able to export. To end, the forests go to work. Artists are working capital to develop the roads and the infra. So that you're talking about. Even the little that we are producing have been stolen and some of them have been sold in advance by people. Are you a gym and they current to the gym. I'm not doing anything to show that we wrap up outputs two point four million, but say day and that is challenge. And on the downstream, I sa stand Nagia does not consume edit more

than that eight million letters of pms a day. Whatever numbers you're seeing on top of that are points it gains. I did just to ask questions whenever you hear the el are important sixty see, we don't spend more than up to ten billion dollars on the wipe. Don't put out the numbers. You see them say they expect twenty four billion dollars. Most of these numbers moneys as to if the real FORENCIC investigation is conducted into the affairs of the NNPC

from two thand and thirty now many people will go to jail. What affect did thispa? He said, chize play compared to what have been happening, I said in Nigeria and the offstrip rather than past than good the word we should be asking and we expect him to to be part of this. Another shuldar the question that who should ramp up output whiland A's I said, and

we should stop the criminal posy games in the houstrant. If he has spoken up by now, you would have been in discussion yesterday because they have been part of this is them. When they were negotiating with three percent, nobody knew how it did. When they were setting up spefies lay funding group to

do the word, nobody knew what they were doing. When they were using our code DOI, they used our cool door to borrow three point three billion dollars at a very exorbitant rate of eleven point eighty percent, and among them they shot two percent flat feet at the time, gun I borrowed one billion US, which gooko as as collabterrack as six point five percent and generous me this guess as today from us. Nobody that body knows a vibra. So while I pity patized with him, and I want them to give him food

by wrapping up no podish household band a partitional weapon. Rout what is bringing two hundred thousand about the city. There's another guy that is doing thousand bout the city in the allowances made plan coming up. Everybody that wants to compisu compete as sure, who's most at pleased gives him go to exactly my the market price in ubay. Thank you, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Look at that's let's go in. I mean, David is here. I'm for

you to ask those questions as well. Make your question direct to the points. Let's get let's the flow. Let's give the room floor right, sheriff, got the floor ahead, Sheriff, thank you. So I will just go straight to the point. So My first question is to you caday about the PMS that has we need will it be h? What will we given to the passenger? Is like, it's not refundable to show that you can

apply. The way it's sets up is that when you pay that six forty K, it's just for you to show that you can actually apply for the visa. It's not refundable with the gates fee to even apply that is not that's justice. So when you pay that one that you can move forward. Yeah, so there's no so I won't have access to apply for a visa. That is a non refundable application fee. You do that one, then you then show tens underds in a bank account for six months. Then you

then paild the credit card. Then you then pay all the everything that does a gates fee to even show that you are worthy to apply with you buy visa. Wow. Anyway, next, next question I not know. Next just make a comment ask that question one more thing to say, so go ahead the room. So we need to be fair to that because if we have polic I mean I don't want to measure some of them, but we use most of the For example, you need to find out who supplies with

Nigeria. So I dont get that what is easier target because he's the richest among them. So I want to focus on the brow Christy around the refinery, but I'll kind of focus on more of the functionalities of the refinery. So first of all, I made a very big miscapulation because I don't think he had a really good plan of who supply him. I mean, you're talking about how do you supply to the next question is even if you want to go to supply you cru where we get dollars to pay for it?

Like talking about at least seven hundred barrels a day? How do you fund it? The next question is how do you pay for even the crude that got to come from abroad? You have you need, you need to shape a day to be able to find to be able to sustain the the refinery. So I don't know what he has plan. So, but I mean I thought about your polution was needing to. I think what he needs now he needed challenges to try to get and oil well license he has he has

to. He has to. He needs to get a contract of people that were Now I need the oil for him because right now he is in the part why he cannot move forward. Okay, so my last comment is I think see himself as a politician and preneur and just talk it up and get interesting. David, let me ask you a question. Why do you think that goes to put the refinery in Legos. There's no crudal in Legos that can supply to refiner. Lego States discovered crude oil, but the crude and

legosies can't supply the refinery. Did he and I know he's thought about where to go to Ugun State, they sort of delayed, so he moved to Lego State. Do you have any insights why he serted the refinery out of the crude oil prisoners in Nigeria. I think it's very I think from the world he had an export so he wanted to be the coast and to be honest, even if he hasted, he just still found it into Legos in terms of making transport, finish and refined items because he always wanted always getting

gonna stop to the export markets they wanted. And it's only Legos that has a sufficient sufficiently developed or that has sufficiently developed and sat infrastructure because he had to build his own part he had to build a port in that lakey him separate from think and whatever. He had to build his own export port is an eapy head zone. I just wonder why he put it so like a dop from himself. I long the intact with that many No, he doesn't

need the town if it's full looking for import for export. One is I think the political consideration. I think, knowing knowing what I do him, he would because I've had the opportunity to say in the same moment in a number of times, what he would always say is that he doesn't invest in any place or anything that that is not family. So I think for a lot of people like him, I think the Niger the other is just a very scary place to be honest. It's a place to go to on explorationial

expeditions like coal to extract science of business. Okay, I think this is just a lot more and I've experted. But if anyone is an expert, I can explain to me how he was going to get crude to this refinery. It's a massive refinery. Another one in India is on the coast. You bring your your refined goles Beyership, they refine you go. How was it what he planned for this same one? You tell they had that answer,

DMV. Let me share, because I you know, I did come as in school, I got anyone and instead the nearest industry is the number one thing next to raw materials. It's one thing that you do society in. So just just if you have an inside, just DM me, then I can bring you up and let me get CEO Austin seeo. Let's go to the fun and good and thank you very much for listen. Debby, thank you very much for that for your submission on the Dubai vis a issue.

I just want to quickly speaker speak on that now, not not to go and when of us here. David has already done a very fantastic job, but I want to I'm not holding brief for the company. What gave rise to that was it called web page? Is that you know a lot of my germ business owners in Dubai and I'm professional, so we're actually bothered. You know, when the issues of the persistent ban and all that were happening, you know, deportations, you know, courtism and so many other

things, so are different for us. Suggestions were made to the Consulate and the embassy you know as of the time to say, okay, we have so many gaining a Durians living in Newly, you know, so this is rubbing off on everybody. So suggestions were made and some powerful, you know connected persons among you know, professionals and business owners took this gold and started

working on it. So but because this guy was very powerful, he actually you know, got the ears of the government as of the time to settle this platform. And at the end of the day, what they tried to do was to copy what VFS was doing, even when technically, oh they said there's a band you really never banned, you know, like when you go there, they said, oh, fine, you can go and apply. So they never come up to say there's been an actual band because they

were given to parmieries and they were given to individuals. So what VFS had with Emirates is these are the details, you know, the ten thousand dollars requirements deposit for what they called for absconding, which is about two thousands and two hundred and seventy two dollars, and also they had the application fee and all of that. So this was what VFS was done in partnership with Emirates.

So but because there was no direct flights from Manjuria as of the time, you know, now the service October first, so you could fly from Ganner, you could fly from Ghana if you meet these conditions. So what this guy did was that, look, fine, VFS is already doing this with Emirates, let us do it also from our own platform, you know, as a way of telling the government of Ua to say, we've been able to verifye Jerian, Geneine Nagurians who were coming in to to buy for

business travels and you know events. Okay, but what they did wrong was to put the fee one of fee at six hundred and forty thousand AER. So when you pay that, you will still have to go back to your travel agents after verification to do the visit application and also now pay you know, of course the service charge, what VFS and Emirates charge is actually two seventy two dollars which is refundable about eight hundred and something dollars, which is

their online service fee. Also then also you about about thirty forty to fifty dollars with Becaulso in total VIFS is charging about five hundred and something dollars with a refundable fee of two seventy two. But these are the guys and not they are charging nineteerians more money than what VIFS is charging. If you go to VFS website as we speak, these informations, they are all they are all there. So our appeel definitely to government is this is actually a diplomatic

solution for them to get this resolved. And also same to say that as a Friday nineteeran visits with there was an application for for age forty five years which was applied and there was no document for education. The visits came as as fast as within one. So this is my brief contribution. But however, one of the reasons also why the UI had to deny all the allegations is that they are not you know, they are not part of the arrangement.

It's a private government kind of arrangement between the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, between Ministry of Aviation. And also of course you know, I think this also came to light when I think the ends everybody when he went to meet with the UI, and that was when they actually pushed this Austin' that's quit Info has a lot of questions. But the point again is that Dubai is basically saying only rich entrants can go there. No, no, no,

no no, they're not saying only rich dangers. Now, if you look at the partnership Emirates has with what's it called VFS, is just to say we want people we can verify based on this standard balance prosidios they have with all that countries ten thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars in an account for six months. Yeah, well relatively relatively, because which there's no country that asks for ten thousand dollars for six months sitting in an account for six months.

Americans don't have five hundred dollars. Average American does not have five hundred dollars in an account. Fact check me the Aura America. You are very you are very correct. Now let me give you just yesterday, my wife was going to apply for your I guess what the topic guide told you. Please just be for your account to and you know you'll be able to get No. I know, I know, we we know this, we know this, and everybody everyone does that butt ten thousands in an account for six months.

That's the reality. That's the reality and which other country does that? I know which that country on it does that? I get you, sir, and I appreciate that. I'm not trying to attack. I'm not just say which that country does that for any of the seasons apart from Nigeria. Is there any other country on earth that is asked to put tenhullond dollars in six months on account and to only use the credit card. I think it's a way to say we only want rich people to come to Dubai. I

don't think I get after the answer. That's just it. It's the only one rich people to come to the bank. Yeah. Well, well the thing is, you know, Dubai being what they are despite a lot you know, you know, to leander their image, to promote the Dubai brand and all of that. Again, the things that preceded these technical visits band they were not things that were very okay, you know everybody knows and all of that. However, they just were just like his pop gup way to

ensure that oh okay, people that were comfortable with another. He said, what would have been the great solution? Would have been it for diplomatic solution? Because I remember the value were countless number of plans, countless number of plans. Nineteen government officials were called for meetings. These meetings they never attended. The Minister of Divisions of the time was the name had the arge.

So many of them there were so great and fellowship, even aside the issue of funds that they had and all that there was the security issues, constitution, war, different things, but they never came to the table. Is not the only country that has ever had these are related issues with Dubai. So many contests India, and it's the point as also is the point again, I can just move on. I'm again, I appreciate what you're saying, but I know Kenyans also have issues with Dubai guys, Indians, Pakistani,

even Russians have a lot of issues with the guys in Dubai. Does not just on only crime course that country that goes to Dubai, but to for government to agree that the citizens would pay ten thousand dollars for six months, pay only the credit card and then not responsible fee of six hundred and forty that's too easy that it looks like it's the government is it's basically agreeing too easily, and it's making money on the side to Dantro under the Boss.

Under the Boss, I think it's there's a point that they saw. I just I just let me just read the song, sent me a d M, and I wants to still time a DM. Dangote has two oil fields OEMLS seventy one and seventy two. OML seventy two has assisted welles, but this is a tanker store. But Dante has got two oil wells. And then this is what the person said. The dangoted to go and develop

his fields and pay people well to do it. He says. His pay is ridiculously low, so it's hard to attract quoting people or people who will be interested in working there. So that's a shot to Dangote that yeah, that Dangote has two oil wells. He hasn't developed it, but he wants people that have developed a wills to sell him crude oil for the refinery. The pension says, I know because I walk there. I don't review too much, but that's a d M from someone so interesting, Austin, I

appreciate those commenters are very very well taken. Thank you so much, meets Ustin, You've got the floor dead. Any comments. Happy again, David if you want to copy. But yeah, Austin, you've got the floor. Is it meets oh I s I n or ocean ocean san Jo. You've got the floor, so please go ahead. Is not ready. Let's get Fermi Fermi shaba, go ahead, Fermi Fermi is not already. I want Kennet. I want Kennette. Hey, guys, if you request to speak, please be near the mic. I won't Kennett go ahead, I

can, I can agree. I guess I've been like shooting market. I want to speak up and speak an that I have the opportunity of, like, okay, it's super cautious. I feel like there's so many overwhelming in a play. When it comes to that, it's it's I don't I don't know how to spe it. It's like it's just overwhelming, and to make an attempt to talk about it will make you sound like a rumbling like a rumbling man, and you might end up saying something that doesn't have sense.

I guess what I'm trying to say is like, when you think about this moment, you remember the book fighting coruption is dangerous by Contrela, and the scenario is a pictures just shippinted in it. And when coming to down the team with the meetings that we can talk about, I feel like when we bring it down to like once, impact thing is this refinery is too big. It's almost seeming like a national asset. Right. So the idea now is we all has passed and whatever has gone into a play. Are we

ready to see this refinery equal? Yeah? Like okay, yeah, he has been collecting favors or allegedly right, but then again the fat right now it is not good. He has one asset that could help Nigeria. Are we willing to like say go or are we even led greed come into the picture and just make a whole mess out of it. Take for example, if we were all against the guy that had the landmark thing right and now it was sort of destroyed, it's not being here in a subsidy or whatever.

Is that something we want for dog theory? Finite? My question, I just want I got a question justly just what's a question. I would just say, like cow like, is it posible to let negative sentiments go the bemum? No? Like I said, if Dangotu was a bank, will be termmed too big to fill. Doesn't mean that we like the banks, but that the bank filler would cause a systematic crash the system. That's

how I put it this way. You know, we're not like that and go to But the refinery is now too big to feel if any PC manages the refinery to become like their own refinery, So we can't allow ANYPC that refinery. But we need to go to to work. But it has to betting a lot of equity and equality now going forward in that refinery. If somebody is saying that has got oil fields, why is not developing his oil fields to supply his refinery. It's not going to be enough. From the

text the person's sent, it's only about twenty fifty. But still he hasn't so to go and develop his own then, you know, buy all our orders, invest in order fields, and acts supply cool oil. He needed more than we needed. That's just the way I'll take it. Yeah, I'm gonna sorry, I'm going to add to that as like, for example, the group is a couplic, right, I can't know to going forward to meet the refinery public company, because he was going he was going to

sell the shares to the public. That was the plan. It was early next year. He was to go private. Yeah, so go public, I mean, yeah, David, go ahead. Yeah. So I was just I was I was just going to comments that. Something that seems to have been missed as well is that even the initial idea to construct the world's biggest refinery, I think it was not one that was worth thought out.

I think if he had constructory refinery that was maybe two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, I think it's been up and around he maybe six years ago, and maybe he'll be talking about construct for a second one and he said one, and you'll have been able to become the biggest that he wants to be.

But if refinery of this size, I think what many of us, including myself up until a couple of years ago, didn't realize that that refineries it's the refineries are still not You have to keep them running an extended period of time, so it's not like a general now and then put it off after. So the supply cha has to be sorted out long before you actually

puts anything in the ground. And it seems very much like that was not something out because if you have a situation where you are buying can goes from everywhere. Ye can goes from Brazil from the US. Very mind that this is the refine every that would no doubt have been configured to deal primarily with Knight space crude, which is like you has grade of crude and I'm breaking

every guitars from South America and the US already. That's the problem. And then the the supply is very stop starts, So there's no guarantee if you get can't go from Brazil this month, there's no guarantee you get it, you get it next month. What that means that they find itself from day one, it's been, it's been. It's going to fit because it supp liking needs to be you know, it needs to be settled before you even

go into operation on the first day. So I feel as if if you have a couple of ooicees that you said together they're using like twenty twenty thousand virals a day, and you couldn't actually guarantee that you're going to find seat stock worth six and fifty thousand viols per day. You couldn't guarantee, then by the hell did you build such a thing? You know, David, you know you know this question I did in my mind, but because I'm not as rich as that that, I didn't want to ask you. Popo

would say, oh are you are you better? Do you know more than

dang whatte He's always wanted to be aware. He was gonna why put the refining number one outside an oil zone and then number two six fifty thousand aryls without paspose to carry the oil fIF stock the naturally financial gas before they build a new train, they actually go out and sell, you know, they actually sell the customers first, then sort of go back, you know, and then they get that what's called it kept the customers friends before they developed

the back back. So it's beats I would I just but David, let me give you some sense to me, n NPC may partner with Wando to buy Dango the refinery, which one having the most shares. So make of that. I didn't say that, David. I just said that n NPC

may partner with Wando. Sense to me if you're a d M. But it's very interesting that we I know that Regutter will not wake up and say something that's a license and operating without without drums being beat from outside the second so it's just interesting that and this is coming up mostly what in Agia, and there's always smoke and fire. It's just what you know with smoke,

it's beating because there's always smoke. However, however, something something that doesn't mentioned is that it's not a way to be the case, and it's essentially somebody in power trying to use presition about raised control in private asset from gravate citizen. Then it becomes a political issue, and potentially it becomes the Southwest is not a politicard issue. That's not if I didn't look at you know, I know he's built a good whole career out of being hepistic as he

is. But I've been surely he's not that stupid. That's very interesting. Can I just now, I think you've spoken three times? Rooted the room? Yeah, but real quick, real quick, just just sentence. Of course, I was going to say, as someone that owns ombos and knew that he was dead for a long time and all of a sudden insteaded blooming,

that's very funny. And the other thing was like also forgetting that the day whatever he's building with the refinder yourself like a three one complex thingy, So I guess the fatalized part of it, and you're wand for government and again I feel like this whoy finer over a child at four. I was born in Ninejia. I would see the problems that he is in right now, So I think this is not anything new. He probably would have for seen this, and it's sort of like playing a game I'm hoping to especially

the way that they refinder is still being delayed. I mean this delay has been happening for years. The conspiracy theory of mine is that has this refiner and you know it's usually refinery somewhere for him to make back his money before fully commission it. And that's that. Yes, thank you all right again from to create space. Yeah, so don't don't drop but the floor. Hi, Hi everyone, how you're doing. I hope everyone's had a love

this some day. That's the quick one. Everybody would have been one of agutis action. It will be me. I've always looked at him as a he put out a government to the government baby, and he's always had his way and always what he wants. But if we're going to be honest about it, he's not the first, not the only one who has had this opportunity. For every danguity you have, you have probably another two thousand and two thousand other people who have to save opportunity and nothing with it. You

know, I think we're at his stage now with him. I think he was you you mentioned earlier, you know, it's too big to fail. I think I think right now the golopment probably has a target on his back. We don't know, we don't know what the end goal is, if it is complete, you know, to completely take over you know, from from him, or if it is just you know, misunderstanding. But now, but definitely, things are not the way the way they used to be.

I'm infa already him. I spoke to him somewhere that he said it all reach done. Now that's protest before his own but protest before us exactly exactly, you know, or really actually he's too big to kill. I have always been of the notion, even like then, you know, he's a chronic capitalists. It's all of that. But at the same time, you know, sometimes when you say you're taking so you make it. He has been thinking that thinking and taking it to the point where he's been too

big now for us to be backtracking. You know, I don't think we need I don't think we need to burn down? Can I can I keep? You have to wait for him to finish and you be cold. He's great, apologies, apologies, very good. Okay. Yeah, so you know he had to be affixed to think it affected to the point where he's actually are really too big to fail? And this is where really actually the

government is to step in and play their role as regulator. You know, I'm stop, you know this help not being and what I'm not with businesses, I mean, you can control, but not what if your kids? About what pot you can you can you know, put put in things that would curb it. Just take advantage of the system. All these years he's gotting away with it and that's got with him to where he is. And you know, they showed me your friends, and I'll tell you who you

are. And to be honest with you, Dange, he's as fired with all the friends. Is holding his sorryce on the friends that you know he's he's key keeping. I can see people like John Woman who now starting to play the game, you know, but still the friends that those ones are keeping, I'm not for sure, you know, having interest, polize interest with with with fans and stuff like that can be a bit worrying, you know, with Tony the Middle's side of things. You know, but at

the end of the day, he's a businessman. They want to make money. They won't have a negacy. Yeah, interesting and so forth. Yeah, that'd be one of them, I don't know, one of the greatest in their messages, you know, keep the place. Whether the government is equipped to do it or whether they actually are going to do it's a different story entirely. And that's where this, you know, the citizenship, the citizens rule comes to play. You know, this is need to step up

and it's think it's fantastic doing things that we just like to do. Buy Levy, you know the six on their kids, and you know in the past, everyone would just be like, okay, how much is it six hundred and like four four hundred dollars of those days or the dollars will have been like what's maybe eighty thousand era they were like as a lot of big deal of be eighty thousand and a half for edifucation right now, everyone, you know, everyone, when I see that's six forty kid, do you

know when that's six forty key, I don't think it's to me, that's not that's not the real cost. Do you know what it means to take ten thousand dollars and keeping an account for six months? Ten thousands dollars and you just putting an account for six months? Not narrow not the couture. Six months happen six months? Do you do a lot of things with with

with data? What did the last data severs? Unless a zero population five thousand accounts are going to be holding ten thousand dollars for six months, it tells you it's basically went out nine point nine nine nine. That just just it's gonna be you wanna be. You wanna be government people, legislators, business people and their girlfriends and boyfriends there like guys are gonna go to the bike going forward. That's everybody else. We can go to sell or something

like that. Everybody else. So even that one, you know, like I said in the past, overlooked. Yeah, yeah, take pictures, it's done, it's done. You know, it's cheaper. It's cheaper to take your money and get the second past plan to Dubai than to go to the jump person and go to Dubai it's cheaper. Does invest in the second passport and go to Dubai than doing this non sense doing? All right, thanks for the comment. Let me get more more of being here. Let's

hear from the U K wing of of nineteer. How are you doing? You know, I'm actually hear you, sir. What's the question to you guys? Do you think actual of our government? I mean as I was in for of course the world. Of course you're scared, of course, I mean, so you're this is more a big setback for economy because I mean I just feel like the governments and demificiensis on the board and listen less

mesa. You know I'm missing points about that. It might not be happy, but I might not be happy, but it is not import about also attracting for investors because it compuicated that we need for investor to come and invest. I mean, I'm many how much government with the board, how many thinks and even danveraged himself, but we need for there's a common invest in

our country. But when you look at the background for between the governments and I'm afraid i mean missing side and I'm just thinking I'm able looking at bigger points of view as a as a people. The foreign investivor, I took the thinking Johnson jer the country con serious. I rather got rest my money in the country. South Africa won maybe the lack of Wanda and even when the community in Africa, so he would have a think for me, I

just didn't come to mean not just opportunities for me? What what comes you to make sure this doesn't go of course for me? Just like let's avoid pushing for Yeah, I mean that's the point what you're hitting on. And that's what we're having this on the financial space, because it doesn't matter if it's Dangoate. This is what I was making. It doesn't matter. These guys that are investing money abroad don't know who Dangote, You don't know who

Calo is. What they know is that niger risk proper has come up. If you're a risk manager and you come to you see what's going on you are with the government with dan Gote, with all this, you don't move the risk premium up because if a connected person like Dangote is having problems, then were like what about you? So these things have an impact. That's

why Nigeria is borrowing more than Ruwan than borrowing more. We pay a higher cost of debts than Ruwan, that which the smaller and has no crude oil. Our risk PYMUM is higher than Togo, ben all those other countries because they have less drama. Nigeria has a lot of drama. A few days ago to the total guys order total NDC. When they move that talk to Angola, he said, Nigerian's talk a lot blah blah blah blah blah.

We do debates up and down, up and not only gals tone. So they moved to a place where at least they are sure Nigeria has rich potentials, but we mismanage it by this talk talk talk bureaucay see you read dog to you you are an essu a arrested for spring dollars. We've locked up bigger from biners or a wheelchair and we think that's not bad pr The US guys are just on in politics. So once port is over, you'll face us canna invice on Myria, lock him up and say yeah, he's charged

with whatever to six billion dollar or something like that. So it tells bad on the country. It affects our our bond yields our bound ratings, and that's why your NARA is so low. Rule of law has a direct impact to investment flows. You've got to understand that you just can run things as if you don't get part of the global economy. You can't have an NSC arresting visitors to Nigeria because he's the NSC. Isn't another world works man. All right, let's get Imperial Mango. How are you doing? So?

Please hop in there? Thank you. I know my handles a bit strange, so I just want to give a bit of context, right, because I've been associated with the company for over twenty years, right, and I remember the same kind of sentiments about twenty two years ago when Langute went into the Obaijana cement plant and cogit it right, people thought it wasn't extremely foolish and ridiculous decision for him to do so because he went to the middle of

Nigeria where they had significant limestone reserves and said, hey, we're going to build a cement plant here, right, And everybody was tucking him. They said, hey, you want to build as a man blood? How are you going to get the heavy equipment there? How are you going to get the how are you going to play the land, how are you going to get the licenses from the you know, various regulator regions is blah blah blah, etc. Right, because it cook it where Obajama Plants is located.

It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, right, And it took them about four years, and they bored about four hundred and eighty million dollars primarily from the IMF because nobody else would fund them at the time and it was extremely risky, extremely risky. Nobody really wanted to borrow this Nigerian company in two thousand and two that nobody had heard about, and everybody was like that this gets a regional series. Right. Well, fast forward to two thousand

and seven. It took about four or five years. They were about two years late, so yeah, you know, they had a three time period of about five years, you know, the signed production and they that five that they took from the IMF was about five and eighty million dollars. They paid it back in eighteen months by two thousand and nine, right, and

that that was really what kick started. Language is sort of rise in the in the in the cements space, which was really sky rocketed him into the sort of national consciousness and sort of maybe African consciousness, right because before that he was primarily a sugar trader. He was, you know, it was a right trader. He was basically to trading. Maybe they had clone to manufacturing me a little bit. So I want to sort of parallel this a

little bit to what's going on in the refinery. Right, So in the refinery, like in twenty thirty, but they signed off the memorandums of understanding with a bunch of banks for saying that yes, they could go to a

refinery. Now, the honest truth is the construction of that refinery did not start really until twenty eighty because guess what, for the first three years they thought they were going to do it in ogle states and Ugu Si government was giving them a lot of funny signals about partnerships and you know, strange,

strange signals which they did not like. Right, So in twenty sixteen they came to that, they came to legal state, they bought this line for one hundred million again which is the public domain, which which was mentioned yesterday, and it was extremely swampylar, right. It took two years to clear and it took another two years to dredge with one of the biggest a measures to drink into about three meters above sea levels that don't in count of flooding.

So the actual construction started in twenty eighteen, you had about two hundred and fifty thousand miles or late and in about t twenty one, twenty twenty two, you know, you had COVID hits. There were some issues, there were you know, there were a lot of you, there were a

lot of subcontractors, There were a lot of Chinese subcontractors. There were a lot of engine subcontractors who obviously at various points in time voiced different it's content, if I could put it that way, We don't know happy with different things, et cetera, et cetera. But construction essentially began in twenty eighteen, right, And by twenty twenty two construction was sort of complete, right, and twenty twenty three they were ready to start putting the oil in.

Right. So the end of twenty twenty three, I went all was in and they started distilling the lowest sort of this list. So I'm sure if you are aware of how crew this works, right, like you start with the lowest displays, which is you know, lubricants, lots of pure oil bunker fuel which is used to fuel ships, right, And these immediately were exported to Singapore and many other places and so on, and eventually they got

to diesel. Now here's the thing. When when they got to diesel, right, their dieselforation plant was not fully ready, right, so they were producing diesel at about you know, six hundred two thousand p pm of sulfur, right, but with the knowledge that their disulforication plant was going to come on board in about one or two months time. Now, what we saw yesterday did before yesterday, it was that the dieselfurcation plant is kind of online.

Dangleates diesel is about eighty seven point five past a million of self. The samples they took from random you know, filling stations like Hotel and Massive

gave ppms of about one thousand, eight hundred. Another one gave two thousand, two hundred, right, So you want to compare one thousand, eight hundred, two two hundred to eighty seven now euro five, I think it's below fifty, right, And as the sulfurregation plans is not fully online, and the premises that is the minus ten ppm, right, and again you know you know how those things goes. These things go from the heavy distillates like again like you know, bunker oil, low po full oil, ship

oil, et cetera, et cetera, to insuo to diesel. The most highest one is PMS spectral, which is supposed to be rolled out. You know, I don't know, you know, they say next month. It could be it could be September, it could be maybe early after. Right, I don't want to speculate on when it's gonna come out, right, but it is gonna come out. And so what I found very this is genuous about the statement from mister Farroklawan who said that oh there is forty five

per second. This This is a this is a company that's been important, has been exporting products from this refinery from February uh to all over the world, to to Singapore, to to Rotterdam, to brazila, the United States, to different places. So I think it's I think it's a very strange sort of play between various agencies. So let me let me let me hop

in here. So you're saying about you're saying number number one is the factory is complete number two qualities better than what we're having than you're right now. I don't want to say the factory is complete and the quality is better the factory. The factory will be complete when we ruled out premium more the spirits in the next month, and poly probably in the next few months. Okay, So well, the question again for you why did you guys build this

stuff away illegals? How what was the plan to get crude oil? Yeah? The magic is SPM single point more in wordy, Right, So SPMs are these magical things which you are basicly pipelines go out into the sea about twenty five meters away, right, so that you can get Tanamax ships. You can get like you know, all these ships that don't need necessarily need to dock at your your part They can just stay twenty five meters from sea, engage with your SPM, and you know, there's a pipeline that goes

in, pipeline that goes out, and they can describe their crude. And not only that, there's a separate SPM for you know, uh off taking offloading your product to to different ships without you necessarily having to dock at any particular Yeah, okay, what oil from where? Oil from? Then Geria was built. Also here here's the thing, right, the assumption was always gonna be, Hey, we're gonna get a majority of our oil from Nigeria.

That was the assumption. And the assumption was always gonna be, we're gonna get a majority of our oil from an NPC and we're gonna sell you know, most of it to Nigeria. For whatever reason, the n NBC has not been able to deliver. I cannot comment on why the n NBC has not been able to deliver. I'm sure the oil, sorry, and reasons for that, you know, deliver crude oil? Yes, okay,

so what that that was? That was the deal? Right, Like they had this twenty percent deal where you know, X amount was cash and x amount was sort of crudsp Right, did those amounts of crude oil that they were supposed to deliver within a certain period of time when the refiner went live? Now again, don't quote me on this, but from what I've heard, it's it's you know, there was fifteen shipments and they delivered about four. Okay, what about this seven percent? Seven percent? Think how much

was nypctary finery today? No, the seven percent what they paid for? But this did this sign up for? I know that in NINEGIA, we do you pay in full? In America? Did do you pay a alockment? So was it a full allotment and they were alloted twenty percent? But if only paid seven? Or is it like it was a mix it was a mix between cast and crew. Yeah, but did you allow them twenty

percent and they only paid seven percent of it? Or did you allow them base on what they paid for or was the agreement that they would they have twenty percent and they haven't paid. So they owned the equity, but they haven't paid all. They only owned seven which is what they're paid for. Which is it they okay? His thing they have? There was a contract where they were supposed to fulfill a certain amount within a certain time period,

right to get that twenty percent, right right? So so so they got the seven point two percent within the time So that's fine, that's that's not a problem. Right, But the remain you know, yeah, that was supposed to be delivered not via cash, but it was supposed to be delivered for your crew, and that was not honored. It was not honored. It was almost like we're begging them, We went after them. You know, there was great periods. There's guys you couldn't do this, Like what's

going on? So? Where does so? Where does money they exported and make money? I'm really exploring that. Okay, last question, the last question for you. No, I've lived I lived in Niger for thirty years. Okay, if you want me to speculate, I can speculate. No, that's just what he's saying. He wants to sell his n n Is that bloster or does he really want to exit the sector. Sorry, I

didn't get that. Dan just said today that he would like to sell the Fine Way to NPC's not a serious statement, or he's just staying dogg and cheek. I don't. I think that's something. I saw an article when he said that. I think he was misquoted quoted, Okay, but they quoted him saying that. That's just my opinion. You know, I'm not thinking I'm speaking in my own past here. You know, David, didn't

we have any questions? You know, we know we we got you, I got you talk and we talked differ No, No, I hear you. I mean you have the space. Debney questions for any questions. I mean, I'd like to take question answer because it's more a strategy question than man engineer in the question. But again, I'm sure you don't understand why this was made initially to make the refining siation two thousands in the first week. It just seemed like it was just way too much. It was just

that's actually that's actually a very interesting question. You know because initially, initially during the design figure of the refinery, right, the design was supposed to be four hundred and fifty thousand, not six hundred and fifty thousand. Right, come against said again, please come again? Oh god, you guys, there is issuing. Do you prepare we go back to d MS? Do you prefare we go to DMS? Are blowing up? Somebody is asking

this question. Someone is asking you give the currents the cumstances is a single point mooring for the refinery justified, but is absolutely spot amazing technologies we have you know why you have param You have ships ships that can come within particulars of the Nigerian coast, right, and we have our poez there right, and you have the pipes there and you can either you can you can either discharge fruit or even onboard finished products, right, because you don't want Supermax,

Panamax or Stewart Max vessels coming into coming into your your your parts. It's gonna cost too much draft. This is gonna be too much headache. They just say, you know, twenty five pilometers away from the coast and they just like, last round to these SPNs and you know, these pipelines extend like in the bottom of the sea, and they just like, look up. So let me this right, So let the panamical couple will go

to and pick up crude oil then still to Legos and crude oil. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And this this this is not just for Paramax and you know, you know as as this applies similarly to say, for example, a vessel that is coming from Legos and wants to op take diesel and you know distributed to PoTA called or worry or will you know what I mean. They don't have to talk, they don't have to talk at the pub. They just go to the SPM, they load, and they're on their

way. It's a much more efficient way of of you know, off taking and this charging products than to talk and then you know, you know, fix the pipeline or whatever. Okay, but just to answer to this question, because it's just a range, but most strategic was like you said, the range that was it a hundred or two? Was the max the initial you mean for the SPMs, No, for the refined. They was looking at the initial capacity. Let's let's say a hundred. I was actually asking

the why decision make it six fifty? Yeah, he didn't want to really go there, but you know, it was more about okay, see it started at for fifty, right. It started for fifty because four fifty is a good figure. And the decision was made to say, okay, let's let's look at it because when they did the initial design, they did the initial design of the refinery, right, and they found out that there was

scope to go about three hundred to three fifty more. Or what what meant was they could go to seven roundred at seven hundred and fifty right, based on the design, based on the area, based on the you know, the amount of crew that could come in are also based on the equipment that was available. Right. So so it's like driving a cass like let's the lobby thet's like you got a BMW right and you're saying you want to drive

it at eighty. All of a sudden you're like, well, I could probably drive this one plenty, you know, but that one twenty, that one twenty gives, it gives like it was a bank and taking more equity. Yeah, but boy boy, here's the thing. You could drive it at one sixty. So they they said, okay, on the generals, we're not going to drive it at one sixty because that's stupid, but you know, we'll probably drive it out you know, one twenty. And you

know that happened. Interesting, that's the best way. Okay. Someone's asking I could be wrong, you know, I'm just saying it. I'm just the guy. I'm just the guy, just the guy. I hear you. But someone is asking, why didn't you feel this in not Delta? Why was it Ogle State first? Why? Why not? Right next to? This? Is probably buoys. I think that I think the Ugo State thing was very I don't know, well, not just Delta, he says,

Delta, Why Delta? Why they didn't build it Niger Delta. I really don't know, okay, but I know that they wanted to build it close to where they could have you know, some striking distance from legostch Why legal? Why why not? Yeah? Yeah, you're just the guy. I'm answering the question, like I want to know, Okay, I for this. I don't have an answer to this. Okay, but but here's the thing. This is there's a refinery and worry you want that. We

need to find me ten thousand which one which you want to NBC. Here's the thing, here's the context. Here's the context. Okay. In two thousand and seven, right, Dange wanted to buy, you know, a couple of these refinements and refurbished them. This was around the lines of when you know, when Dangote but Bens remember benincident Boogle right, uh, And they had a really tough time buying business book because they said the government said, you have no technical, no out, you have no idea what you're

doing. You guys just you guys are just hicks from you're just right next

from you what you're doing. But it was fine when you we went and built up APPLT and that, you know, built some confidence and then but I think the whole you know, I think everybody knows about the stuff, right like this wanted to take over the field refineries, and president you know, Mademoiselle decided in his wisdom that that's a good thing for the country and the pencil, right yeah, I mean you have any questions for him finally to come in, Well, ah, this is this is more strategy,

good friend, I don't mind yet. So I'm wondering, like after I know that after you die, President John was maybe a bit more amendable, you know, to to I mean ionomic, it didn't the time I have had something to do was President John was definitely more abandonable. I mean he used to carry it. You know when that was listed as well, Wealth

Africa was listed among the accomplishments. Like he was very out of thoughts instead of singing money into the primary sunder to sort of revived that s was the first I heard, you don't want they figured out Yeah, I think they figured this out after taking the news event, because you know when when the built up a right like they built about Jestament with the best of the equipment

from from Germany, Switzerland and you know, the Netherlands and whatnot. Right like, the efficiency the sort of cost of producing one kilogram or one ton of cement was was was way way way way cheaper than anything they could do with Pneisment Company, right, which was a takeover and had legacy equipment which

was like, you know, thirty years old and SWAE. So I think they made a parallel to that and said, hey, if we take about these refineries and we spend you know, X billions of billers to refurbish these refineries that were essentially built in the seventies and eighties, would we really you know, we really get the games that we we should then you know, if we if we built the refinery with technology from the twenty tanks, No,

because the fact is that the technology from all these for all these other findaries who were from the seventies to eighties. Uh it was the seventies and eighties, I mean because I was that's the last one. Yeah, yeah,

So it was all the technology. And see Danglode whole the only reason Danglote dominated Select was because they built the brought in technology that was newer and more efficient, that was able to you know, give the five a run for their money, right, So so so when they looked at it and they were like, do we really want to refurbish these plants, that's like, you know, from two thousand, late nineteen nineteen late block that anyways,

I mean great upon one of the talk let me just get something handy and claim if you prove that we just had to pull a talked you k k kay, judge, you want to whatever about testing it to go, guys, I apologize, but it's been packed lots of breaking news as well, and one of them I have enough sense. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead of case it's not responsive, go ahead, you will, I'll come, I'll come after. Yeah, go ahead, you will like it?

All right? All right? So contrivisually is that I think we're in the lineman and right, So my argument are suicide is the fact that I think we need to angle tag one h. I'm also do not need to take it? Can you? I can hear him, I can hear there is not speaking speaking. Call is the one to shoot you will your life statistics, So go ahead, okay, okay. So I was saying that we're in pretty much I didn't, I right, And because on suicide we

need and we do not need him. We need down with the industries, uh twenty more down the adresses and I here one undred percent we need that kind of those kind of businesses, but down with her as a businessman, the type of businessman that is. You know, Nigeria does not need his parasitic I mean David as Amad it already his paracity is monopolistic tendencies. Right, does not the country group, you know, it doesn't have the industry.

And I point to a couple of things. Right in the last sexy or forty years, there's no country in the world that's undergone the kind of infrastructure upgrade or infrastructural revolution that China has. No country in the world. And I want you to go to the point, go to the point because we're just yes I was, I was to the point that I just need to round them. I know, I know we have two more beanies.

So what I'm saying is that in the last eight years, uh now country has gone through the true gone, true infrastructure revolution or upgrade like China, as you know, and the major things that you need for infrastructure. Right, even if I realized things that is rude to everything. Semens is a major confident. Yes, China does not doesn't matter. Cement right, Cements is something that was invented by the Romans centuries ago. Even before its christ

was born. Yes, we have been engineer that this is a retestment in Africa from cements selling cement because engineers more for cements than the average price in the tire world. I don't pay more for SEMy are selling the expensive cements. Basically, my own points is that ninetyear is so messed up right now that we need a thing because the people in power are just bloody incompetence.

But like I said, my sad admit, as you said, we also do not needing because of this monopolicy and we are picking much in a deliment now. So what I think they should do is your settlers set with their families, pose easy man with the government. Everybody knows that whenever she is there have been she said, tools and getting too final. We can thank you all right, thank you so much? Can I go? Ye?

Okay? So yes, thing about the very because I never won. Idn't tell you they need Naegelian's money because if they do, they will invest, investing the people more before they come to their country and having idiots going to the country going to the buyou because in chaos day so they will be the one that do the investment in anger and you know I do with it the better to get the right people to come instead of using them. The fact

that you have to do ten thousand dollars down there. I have ten thousand dollars in year. Cant before you know they can even consider you. And you know, hi can the amount of money that you need for the visitor processing or whatever that sex undred and something is. So they don't value us because we don't value ourselves. You know, I can speak for myself as an individual of my character, but you know when you look at you as

a whole, that is what we go and do outside the country. We take what we do in Nigera, we take out of the country of courtesy. Yeah, there was a particular video that so whereas we are, young men were attacking themselves through the lived doing all sorts of things, attacking at the car pack. You know, we have I'm sorry to say, women going to Dubai and playing prostitution and everything. And you know we're enleveled for that in Dubai. You know, I know the country resample not going.

It's bad enough that you know up and down the country, this constitution we take out of the country, they get these are going to do prostitution. So I mean you get frostars, the boys in Dubai, all of them catching out frostars all over Dubai and everything giving them bad news and with noticary or for shoppye. The other one I can't remember would bury, you know, all those sort of things that ever had to go to Dubay to pick

these people up. So we ourselves as we're not doing ourselves any favor with all those bad behaviors. Right, so now if you want to go only maybe you want to go for a break. There other countries that you can ten thousand dollars, But how do you represent your country when you go to those countries? I mean, I mean that's that's I just think that your data is correct. We have the badder event there, but I think go

to Dubai. There Russians are doing worse the Nigerians. There's a Russian guy jail, the drug guy in Russia, guns in sorry, grinds in Dubai killing people. The Russians have their own social jail in Dubai. The point of making that that they don't want to because we're not spending money. It's an economic decision. We don't have any We're not bring any betefits to Dubai.

We're not spending. Consumption is down, the economy is down. So in the past Nineteans we go to Dubai and spend spend one so they don't lose anything to kick us out, even can spend more Nigerians in Dubai. So I think it's it's it's more of an economics to kick us out. And that's why if you notice the requirements made wink and lord, the Dubai

guys like it because now they know you can spend. That's why the specified the credit card how to play with it, not the card credit credit card, so only yeah, So I mean when they does have credit cards. How many Americans don't have to dollars but they have credit cards. So they are making it very very clear. We only want business people that have money. If you're torists or you want to come out. If you see snow

for the first time, go to London, don't go to Dubai. It's an economic They don't want to quote and quote poor people in Dubai from Nigeria. They don't mind poor from India and Pakistan that will come out of work in their industry. But not from Nigeria. That's what they say. Yes, so that's what I said. They're not willing to do that. Yeah, I mean I hear you. We're gonna move sooner. We can just

get us. But how you got that in here? Just a bread question for me, said mister the guy left, Just a quick question for you in term of the price, Yeah, I know in Tel, sorry in tel of the pricing, right, what what would be the what would be the would you say if the price from Dangot would be cheaper for Nigerians because we are finding locally, so the guys listening to me and asking me what would be the price? Is already cheaper for diesel and it's very cheaper for

jet from the refined. So has this has been the points is march? I mean, the factor has been selling diesel and jet A one for a few months now and it is well below what the market price. Let me ask you up on that? Is it below market price? Because NNPC is so inefficient that their cost place has gone up. So look at it this way. Compare what don go to selles to what's the South Africa cells which is cheaper? See it depends you know, because diesel and jet A one

are different. PMS is very interesting thing will come in because PMS is still subsidized to an accent. Might now there is when we will see how the price really plays out because is isel what's telling at about one six hundred liter? Right when Tango started selling, they started selling at one thousand, two

hundred. They brought it down to one thousand, then they brought it back to about one thousand, unto two hundred because the whole dollar issue, right, which is about four hundred nine cheaper than what was being sold on the market, which is one and you can confirm from all the airlines in Legos in CA and right, did anyone price has also come down? Yeah, I get you. The point I'm trying to make is this right Nigerian cost I don't know Nigeria cost. So Nigeria costs are high because cost of person

is high. So, but if I compare the cost of pyramids or diesel from Nigeria to South Africa, can you compare to No? No, I want to do with South Africa. I want South Africa because because I know compared to West Africa, compared to compared to compare compared to better Republic compared to the roon, compared to this year, compared to but I want to compare to Africa for a reason. I know I'm in South Africa because it's a functional it's a functional economy, right, so it's functional, so I

can that's a marketing the economy. Although well we are also really I wouldn't, I wouldn't stay with they just called the refinery or licensed. They just called the refinery or licensed. Yeah, are you going to say our economy they can't call a refinery or license. That's the point I'm making. So, but you answer the question, what did you think to be cheaper? What did did do be cheaper than did this lends South Africa? What do you think? What is the what is the price? You don't know?

I don't know because I don't know. Look, because this is actually a very good question asking and I want to answer it intelligently without boom boom. Okay, price of one letter, price of one letter of diesel? And let's say, okay, so South African diesel prices right, it's one two okay? True? Okay, true? And yet okay, okay, it's about two thousand okay, yes, so it's been cheaper ahead, it's cheaper

in Nigeria. Nigeria has been crashed about one thousand hundred, Okay, So it's cheaper in Nigeria than an economy like South Africa with the high okay, So okay, okay. And then go to a little cell go to will sell it in doors, will sell in naira to Nidrian contuments. Oh absolutely, okay, that's that's the same. Okay. So here's the thing. The question is going to be see for for p MS. Right, it's kind of controlled by NBC. Unlike Diesel and everything else. It is control.

We have to kind of go through them. And this is where you know, we're having a text you know, friendly familifire friendly and call it, I don't know what you want to call it the news. We get the point, We get the point, Okay. I just want to get this questions and thanks thanks for answering them for us. Let's get Elizabeth and

Elizabeth, what's your what's your question? Yeah? Hi, I actually didn't have a question, and I have a very valuable contribution with regards to the Dubai wholethy asc going on, and someone spoke earlier and I wanted to just correct the person. And I'm not sure if it was you that talked about how the U A won the Nigerian money and all. I actually joined the podcast last week and I dropped very valuable information that the U A E don't

actually want Nigerian's money. One hundred people's money is worth three people in the Gulf. We spend, so we are not their market. When Dubai opened up to Nigeria, it was because of the Emirates Airline. We are valuable to make their being full, so they're not having anty legs yes with them every time they took their visa with them every time they left. Not because of what Nigerians are doing over there. There are other people doing stuff.

It's just that thing of if we can't have you as U A gen two hundred million on our flight, no other Aline will have you guys, So the beaver there's a control thing for nobody else to have us bring both to them. It's not so much about what we're doing over there. There are many other countries doing worse stuff, but we our purpose has to be it's a control thing. They need us for numbers for the aircraft and I completely agree with you. I made this point over and over that an economic thing

like you. This said, the visa is attached to the Emirates Airlines, so once emorates to flying, the business left. So completely agree with you. If we have money today, they willn't access to pay six because they know no one Andreas come. They will spend I'm not saying they need us spending, but into the field of the plane. So if they don't go to the US, you can go to Dubai friving to the US. So they want you to use that as a whoub But if you don't have money,

they don't want you. That's what they're saying. What That's what I'm saying. So yeah, I'm a little bit thanks for that question. I have a question again for them for speak, I have a question for you. Someone saying, so let me be a curveball. Someone says that the subsidy was removed, prices went up, Bango teste, prices have come down or cheaper. He wanted to comment on that. You get him where he's where he's going to be done. Do you get what he's trying to say.

He's saying, subsidy was removed, We cost prices to go up does dango taste high prices? Now a pel lo? Okay? So so so you actually you have to look at what is the cost price. You have to look at what is the what does the you know imagine in this solution, right and you have to see, okay, what is gonna perfect the

company? And honestly that that's that's where it really because this is where we always keep saying, you know, n n PC, give us crudel, give us crude oil, and we will be able to price international price you want price they want to pay. If you if you make dangote to import crude oil from Brazil the US, you know, from wherever the hell, right, it will not be the same price as if and then you know an LPC gives those crews, it will be a different price to absolutely be

a different price. You know that that's just that's just think. But you know, from from what from what I've seen or at least from what I'm hearing, the NPC has mortgaged you know, for what crude prices for you know, different loans and different things for a number of years. So that's why that's why they can give you, That's why you can get the product

because NPS. Yes, I don't know how practical just for them, you know, if they have contractual obligations to say, I've taken loans and we're going to play by this loans with crude and I only drilling one point eight million, one point two one point one point two one but whatever it is, right, you know so so so that's where it crosses the whole. You know, the whole param is sophisme breach of contracts, and nypiece is

owned by the federation. The federation is technically I don't want to blame any I don't want I don't blame anybody because you know, it happens, it happens, it happens. You know things happen, and you can't predict future and all that. So twenty twenty two and NBC agree that, okay, fan, who give you X amount gosh and then the remainder of this will give you with crewder right, and they have not been able to meet that obligation with the crew. Are you paying for the crew in or dollars?

I have to go talk to my father. I'm okay, would you would you? Would you? Will you say? Will you send me a d M? If you find out. Absolutely will except that you know. Yeah, if you keep it private, yeah I will. If you don't want, if you don't want me to reveal it, if you don't want me to sit you can. I can get an information and like I can share it without giving any I can. I can get that information for you in a couple of days, like the actual act. I would appreciate that.

I think what information is good you you, You're coming here has helped you. See you coming here has helped. I mean, baby, just asking you questions, PLoP are asking me question I'm asking you. You should do more of this. You should get your trust people to come out and talk to This is not the well pressed, but we are represented a large talk more. And I think you also have to realize that I'm a twitter you. I'm I'm not that far off. You've done a good job, but

but I have a lot of information. Gotcha, and I don't know. I don't want to get fired. Don't worry. I don't want to get fired. I don't want to get don't worry. That's go fund me, we'll do something on that. I don't worry. I don't think he said, he said, it's not hiding place. Go fund me, you say cost me a lot more than just getting fired. No, seriously, I think it's very good to have the other side speak. I wish you're some

from the prodicument. So I completely am responsible taking what you're saying. Lost of questions are not asking you because I think they will be a bit more. But I like that you're here, so I don't mind. I don't know there's some I'm not asking you. I don't want to put in a questions. Yeah, I don't mind one or two. I don't mind one or two show I would actually like to questions. Actually, I just actually one now about about the I actually pement that you Dangote and the pedagment in

the produgument removes against their opinions. That makes Dangote's extensive products cheaper. So in effect, you guys are playing taxing good God, bad cup. So I was just making money off the removal of yourself in Nigeria. So the answers to that we have not started producing PMSS yet, Well that's that's actually not We've started producing pms. It's in the tank. It's being tested and

lastly tested for about three weeks for purity for often content. You know how in the US you have like eighty eight, ninety three and ninety five, right, you know, you know if you have a BMW, you have to have like the ninety five, right, Yeah, that's making sense,

yes, oh yeah, yeah yeah premium. Yeah. So we're trying to get to that stage where we have you know, we have the payments in the time, we just want to purify to have it at least eighty eight, right, I won't to have at least ninety three and I five options. Whether distributors who have that option, we don't know, but you know it'll be there. But what I know is that the previous regime for the last twenty years for guess eightiots, it's about seventy. You know, it's

destroyed enguries. You know you gotta be a theblut Nadera, right, you're feeling it with the petrol. Yeah, it's meant to me, It's meant to be ninety five. You know, I got the Kneus for almost ten years, by the way, right before I came back to Nigeria. So I know, if you have the next five, you better be putting like

absolutely preium. Yeah, seventeen dollars tank Man, Well, I mean it's expensive, yeah, but you know, you know what I mean, right, you want to you want to enjoy the you want to keep it for like fifty years. Well you better put like premium, right, but boy, yeah, it's it's it's really funny eighty eight, you know, honestly, it's about seventy two. It's honestly about seventy two. It's terrible.

It's actually it's absolutely terrible. And you have all these luxury vehicles putting in this, you know, seventy two and then a right, yes, wait at the end of the time, all right, so that guys believe and also spend three hours three hours, and we put a lot on David to do. Dan Gote and Dubai delivered as usual, but I'd like to also respect his time. David, let me just give you head if you want to make any closing remarks or the floor is yours, and then from there

we're just sort of the space I can. I'm just appreciated forcoming first of all, and you've got the floor is oh I think So, I mean hopefully hopefully we don't we don't end up seeing Yeah, we wanted to work that. I think that's just the point. We want every one of these spaces on this space because they want Nigeria to work. We wanted to refer to work. We want cheaper prices, We want to pay less for the common things in life. We want our life to be better. We want

a to go further. That I think is the common trend for everyone that has spoken the Dubai besides the exact same thing. Dubai is fun to go to. We don'tant to go to borrow money or to pray before we can get from just to go to Dubai that every other African country is going to. I think it's wrong going to agree to any of that sort of of of requests that you have to put money down, you know, special evil. If Dubai was in the US, they would have suit the US.

You know, I said, you are doing desperate treatment of Nigerians who serve in the class action and would win. So it's wrong to do that, and it's wrong for us to support that sort of demand before you can visit the country when others don't get that sort of demand. We are still Nigerians, We're proud people and we are not drag on anybody, we go to your place, we make it better, believe it or not, that's what

it is. Right. So on that note, David, thank you so much for acceding to come and talk to us about the stuses that you have deep knowledgy on that you've also a reasen about. We appreciated thanks to everyone that has spoken guys. It's just that it's three hours already. We have got to call it at the time on so folks, can you know, go to sleep and all that. It's recorded once we're down the space to be on the podcast. It sits on YouTube, Facebook and also on any

podcast that you have. We can go back and rewind and listening if you want to. We're here every Sunday, seven pm worst African time. We're talking money, politics, the economy, personal finance things. But I make we make it important to you, right. We try to make it do to understand those difficult conversation around morning, we break it down so you can

actually get the true sense of I think we've done that today. So I appreciate everyone that has still with us so long and has been contributing, and that guys to allow me to close on the space and I hope. I'll see you guys here next week. My name remains Kaluaja And thank you so much, guys, David, the rest to have a good time and bye. Thank you, Calum, thank you so much for your openness. I appreciate it. Yeah, welcome to Thank you, thank you, sir,

thank everyone else, thank you. Have a good night everyone,