Talking CBN 2022 Annual Report, Peg v Float, The Experience

Hey, folk, High folks, are welcome to another spaces or should we call it x spaces now with me, My name is klu Aja, and here we talk money, finance and of course the economy. We want to make it personal to you. Want to take the stories of the week or what's happening in the economy front. I want to explain it so they can become a better investor and how it does affect your walls. It's very important to us. So this week we want to talk about the CB and the

Central Bank of Nigeria's recently published twenty tween two and a report. We want to talk about the whole controversy surrounding the pegging or the floating of the Nigeria naira visi is the reference currency with the US dollar, and then of course talk about other issues. If you have a question the economy on investing, we can talk about it. So unless an open house, right, don't hold back. We just are just gonna do it quick five minute intro intrough

topics. Then if you want to speak or you'll have a DM, just send over and of course we'll talk about it so we can all learn together. So let's just jump right, into the first topic I want to hit today with the Central Bank of Nigeria's twenty twenty two annual report. Now, why this is so or why it costs so much? We say traffic on social media was because in the past the central bank, I would say, in the last maybe five years or so or longer, they have not released

their annual report. So what about the central Banknogier has been doing. They haven't told Nigerians about it. Writings have been really been silent over there. And they're a very very big institution because they've been playing a lot in the economy. Usually central banks focus only on the monetary side. I eat the money right, the monetary interest rates and all that kind of stuff. But

we've had on this central bank. Government may feel a very interventionist central bank that is focused directly playing in the economy, either true giving out low interest loans or creating Should we see programs where farmers banks are all that are getting no financing that below market forces. Nothing wrong with that. Most central banks do the same thing across the world. Most central banks in the US, when you hear quantitative easing, there are basically intervention is programs to help the

Nothing wrong with that. But we've done a lot this on the bank in this time hot one, a lot in natural economy with printed moneies and all that. But so we've not really seen, should we say, the real official numbers out till this came out. So I looked at it, a lot of comments online and I did insolvency all that kind of stuff. I took my time. But the weekend look through the report, I didn't see anything really here that would suggest like any smoking gone or that anything was really

happening. I didn't see anything amiss. The main thing that that that struck me was the external reserve position. Right where we are on the external reserve. That destrike me, and I spent to you what I'm talking about. So the Central Bank is to publish the external reserves on their website. I think last time I saw it, I think it was in November last year, November tween twenty two. I think it was about twenty seven or twenty

eight billion. What's was on the website. But what we then find out from the report, the annual report, is that the Central banks foreign reserves as a December it's about thirty two billion. I mean, it's just thirty two billion, just thirty two billion, not a lot, not a lot for a country that does a lot of imports. I mean our PMS import bill is anywhere not of two billion. This is just PMS. We're not

talking about food. There's not a lot of money at all. But this thirty four thirty two billion, if you look at all the notes around it. Number one, we have pledged this money to JP Morgan and Goldman sax I. We borrowed from them. So these discs reserves are our collateral. I think about seven point five of that total borrowing losing our foreign reserves as collateral. It's what we did right. And then also we also have should we say, you know, we have what we call the forward market.

So if you want to if you bring dollars into Nigeria, you can buy a contract from the central bank, or to say, if you want to take your dollars out and say two years, the central bank would give you the dollars at that price you buy today. So for instance, you could say I'm bringing in a million dollars today, but in two years I would like to buy my dollars back from such a bank at the next change. You to say seven hundred, So whatever the rate is in two years,

the central bank must sell to you dollars at seven hundred. So the center Bank is essentially taking a gamble or taking a risk that the currency will be lower than seven hundred, so that you wouldn't come back and execute your contract, so they make a profit of your deposit that you've made. That's the center bank is taking your cash today and hoping that this exchange rate is better. You wouldn't come back to the central Bank to get that contract executed.

So there are prophet is the premium they collect from you in advance of this pledged dollar, right, I think we have close to about a billion, about oh six point eight billion, So six point eight billion is what we

have as the pledge for this forward contract. So if particulate the seven point five billion that we've done that we have with gold Band, Sex and Jamming my guy took a loan from them, and you add this about six point eight billion that we have, you can then see that that the reserves have

gone from about two billion to nearly just over twenty billion. Right. So the point I'm making is that the real number that we say we have in terms of external reserves for the largest economy in Africa is less than twenty billion, less than twenty billion guys. And that was a real shocker to me because that immediately tells you that this is why we have floated the currency, right, because we can't afford the peg. When you peg your currency.

Now, when the second part of the discussion, when you peg your currency, you are essentially saying and this value of minor de nira is going to be represented by something else, in this case the US dollar. Right, so if the dollar goes up, Nara goes up, the dollar comes down, Narra goes down. So what Nigeria has done is to say we're going to peg it at a level of the neffectory. This was before the float. Nigeria pegged tanira to the n affect, so the neffects about say four

sixty eight. So what Nigeria and central bank is telling you is that if you take four sixty eight to the central bank, they'll give you a dollar. But you and I know that never happened. Matter of fact, all the airlines, most of the airlines were are all old emirates has left Nigeria because they couldn't get dollars at the four sixty eight. So that peg that the Cibion published it never walked, it never ever walked for the nine and economy. So that was just a peg on paper to make the nira look

strong. But what that did was to say people could go and get central bank at that peg rate, you could do transactions at that peg rate, and that sort of distorted the economy. So Nigerians, if you're acting Nigeria and last year what was the valley of Nigel, tell you, oh the burder is four sixty eight. Why because that's what the central bank city is, which was wrong, right because the value era was never four sixty That

was the peg that the nira was put at. The peg. So now if on with undepegged de nira and for AWD you to float or you move the peg. Denara floats were announcing the nira go to about nine hundred, nine hundred to one dollar, and I just at saying this value is too is too weak. Right, the nira is to be stronger than this, and I'm saying no, the nira is not depreciating. The narra is going to its true value. The true value of the nira's this nine hundred it's

not falling. The Nira isn't falling, guys. This is the value of your currency right. It's like and I give this up on Twitter. Imagine me me Calu. I peg my expenses to Dan Gote and I say Dan got the bias. Shoe I buy shoot, then got the buys a badder. I buy a badder. That's okay now, but then got the bias. Private Jet, I go and borrow and buy private jet, but then go they can service is privately. Just are borrowing Eyklu cancers, private jet

with are boring. That's what Nigeria has done. So we've been borrowing money from JP Morgan, from Goldman, from the forward market to maintain a peg of four sixty eight. I just give it the figures, guys. So we've borrowed six point eight What I mean borrowed. That's the outstanding lab blitty.

Nigeria is owning the forward market. That if the ford market crystallizes, which means if everyone that has booked a contract with the Nigeran Central Bank goes and says we would like to exercise this contract, niger would have to pay six point eight billion to the contract holes. That's how would they pay them, it would have to sell them right the current city the dollar at the price that it pledged, which means that maybe the price has gone up to

a thousand, they will still buy that. That's using an example seven hundred just an example, that's six point eight billion dollars and also with gold between Goldman and give him more than seven point five billion. So if they'll come due, then the phone reserves are going to reduce by this amount. And the phone reserves is what keeps your currency value at that four sixty eight that we taught it was that. So now we don't longer have something billion.

We don't have the thirty two billion we saw on the cb and website. We have less than twenty. And once we are lessen twenty, the Centar Bank can't got on peg. So the currency can float and to its real value. Just like I, if I don't look I can afford my private jet that I bought with dangle Te, What do I do I have to sell it? I have to depend from dangle Toe. If I depend from

him, then I don't need my private jet anymore. They say with the Centilar Bank of Nigeria, they can no longer peg to the dollar, because if they peg the nira to the dollar or to any other issue, then they have to maintain a foreign reserve to maintain that peg. Good means if you go to center Brand today with founder sixty eight, they should give you a dollar. So what's story from taking your dollar to the streets and selling

for nine hundred and making a quick profit of about founded nina. Nothing. That's why they have to take the plague away. It has not going to do it. Whether the structure is good or it's not good. No, we've passed that level. We can't afford a four hundred and sixty eight nira

dollar. What this means for your folk, listen to me that if you live in Nigeria today, your standard of living has got to change because for the first time, I would say, in the last maybe eight years, you are going to see the real economy staring in the face because all those things you took for granted, the important DStv, they going to school abroad, that are priced in dollars. Can you really afford it? Can you really afford it? Because it's now at the real dollar rate, not at

the four sixty eight. You know, most of us when we want to go to school abroad, We're going to apply for a PTA. We apply for education funds from the Central Back and those funds are given to us at the subsidized rate, the fall citty eight. That's why we can afford to go to school abroad. Now, if you want to go to school abroad, you've got to buy your dollars at nine hundred and ten nine hundred, So can you really afford TOSTV? Can you really afford to go to school

abroad? Can you afford to buy imported hair? Careful to buy your arsenal jersey? That's the question for Nigerians now, and that's why you see the consumption in Nigeria has fallen because the answer is simple, we can't afford it. Why can't we afford it? A minimum wage it's nothing. It's less than thirty talon EA a month, So if you do the maths, that's less than a dollar or something like that for most people a month. This is just staty t K. Well, no, no one ends thirty,

some endless, some end more. But that's just the situation. The Nigerian population. The middle class has disappeared and it has been replaced by very, very rich and very poor. How many Nigerias do you know can afford the brand new car of any model Chinese innocent Toyota. How many adjourns do you know can afford the brand new can not from the company, can go to their bank and get alone, just alone, even alone brand new car.

What's the monthly paid? That was the monthly paid of your monthly? Take them that, folks, is a situation. We're not talking if the policy is good or bad. I'm not here to explain the policy by the presidentcy is good of the policies prependency is bad. All I'm telling you is that right now, if you live in Nigeria, you're are now seeing the real economy, not the software's economy, announcing the real price of petrol, but in the real prize of dollars. Witness, if you have survived on chip

important petrol no more. If you've survived on chip dollars no more. Hence, you have to change your consumption, you have to change how you invest, because that is where you are right now, simple as shop guys, nothing depressing about it, just stating that actual for us. So that's my talk, yeah, and I hope I try to make it as simple as possible. I try not to use real newly economic terms. Mister Satucci wants

to speak everything satuci. I hope you'll not maintained that the solution is no. I just I just have a quick question what you were talking about earlier and about the contract and I just want to say, would you agree that since you have an in death knowledge of the contracts wanting to expand for us and noobes that are not so inclined, And I go and the answer whether or not you would agree that those contracts with scams because obviously JP Morgan knows

that all will have better heuristics to detail, I mean that the purchasing power of a totals country like Nigeria will keep going down. Hence, what would you what would you say to the intent of the contract, And then would you say that how would you say that those dollars were so you say those are those euro dollars or dollars directly from Hanshaw United States sens Yeah, via Swift and all of that. That My main concerns that I won't tell you

to sort of address. Yeah, so I'm taking off my notebooks. I can write it down right, So number one, they're asking, I mean the intense, the sourcing and all that kind of stuff like that's a great question. And let me explain in detail what forward contract is. Right when you see this derivative contractor usually from their origins from the agricultural sector in the in the past, right, you have a farmer that maybe farms me's.

The farmer sells means and takes its means to the market and sells. But some guys were invited and to the farmer, why don't I pay you today, farmer for your means. I'll pay you today for maize for next harvest in season. So you pay the farmer today for the maze in future. The hens is called the future's market. So you are paying the farmer today for maize and the farmer has got to delivered maze to you a year from today. So what's the risk to the farmer? What if the farmer maize

in the next year is very expensive? Witness, the farmer is going to make more profit if he sells his maize on the open market, what we call on the spot. So the farmer sells is maize next year on the spot. He makes more money, but has alay committed to sell his maize to you into the future. Today, what's the advantage to the farmer he gets cash today, what's the disadvantage Tomorrow? The maize may be more expensive,

so he loses money. But let's flip it. If the farmer gets cash today, what happens in future if the price goes down, Well, the farmer has made out because he has gotten his cash today. So it's a gamble against the future prize of that commodity. So let's bring to Niger to night two currencies. One the central bank or opens up a futurest market.

What they are saying, they're trying to attract investors. If I am an investor and I come to Nigeria, let's see I change a hundred thousand nira dollars sorry to naira, and I change that save five hundred to one, right, four hundred thousand, So I get maybe let's just say fifty million naira. The problem is not the naira I've gotten. If I want to go out of Nigeria in three years, I need my dollars back. But if I go to the market, they'll tell me, oh, there

are no dollars in the market. So what do I do. What I would do is that I will go to the Central Bank of Nigeria and buy a futurest contract that will say in that three years, I will get dollars from the Central Bank at the price, and the center Bank will quote me a prize. The Center Bank can say, okay, we're going to give you your dollars at say six hundred. So I've really built in my contract. I get into Nigeria at five hundred to one dollar, but I can

go out at six hundred to one dollar. It's an open market. They quote the quote openly, so you can see what the buy is. You can see what the cell is, the bid and the offer. So you go in and you buy at five hundred, and you say, well to go out, I'm gonna buy at six hundred. So what's the advantage to you. You know that whatever happens, you're gonna get dollars at six hundred.

So you can then build out your profits forecasts and your pro and your Excel sheets to know if this is going to be profitable for you or not. But what if the price of the dollar goes to five hundred. Of course you won't go and buy dollars at six hundred because you can get it cheaper outside, so you don't go back to the central Bank to exercise your contract of six hundred. Hence, the CBN makes a profit because you paid a premium to get into this contract, so that prenomly made. The CBN

keeps it. That's their profit. But when the state dollar goes to eight hundred ah, now you will rush to the central bank and exercise your contract at six hundred because whatever the prizes, the central bank must pay you six hundred. Hence, the center Bank is going to lose money because they have to give you these dollars that is what eight hundred at six hundred, and you make a profit because you can then take your six hundred and sell at

eight hundred. You can trade your futures right, So that's the structure of the futures market. It's not a scam, it's not Jim Morgan and cole Anott to Hoodwak Nigerians, we have to have this market because we have not secured and formalized our exports. Our exports are supposed to be so clockwork.

We sell oil to folks, pay us oil. We bank our export dollars Mexico dolls and derivative trade where every year they lock in their export process and they say, whatever happens, we are going to get x amount of dollars flowing into the Mexican Central Bank irrespects of the price of crude oil. So they have a different sort of contract that they do. We don't have that sort of contract. So the point is that because you have oil theft,

because you have corruption, the revenues don't flow back into Nigeria. So you had the JP Morgan released a report where they were attend their investors that they should leave Nigerian bonds because Nigeria is not crediting JP Morgan, which are their bankers with the export proceeds of crude oil sales. So Nigeria, the Senator, was the only country selling crude oil that when the price of crudel went

up, they are revenues did not go up. So when you had that sort of situation, that's the problem that these future streets they don't matter because the central Bank has no dollars to cover them. So from the two billion, we not have a reserve less than twenty billion. That's the reality and that's what the NIRA has got to go up to a thousand, sorry to nine hundred. That's the reality. So everything still she doesn't we are now

it's directly no one given to me the administration that got this contraction. Where would you say, like the party of the question, that those dollars source from the United States or these are just euro dollars that are from credit expansion. This this is from this from investors that are bringing in capital to Nigeria. True what we call the capital importation Certificate. I don't do a prap

with the government. So if you suppose she wants to bring in ten thousand dollars to Nigeria, you would go to your bank in Bank of America and say, transformed to Nigeria. They transformed United. They give you a CIC to show you important money. Legally, is this month that you can go and buy a forward That's what we're talking about. It is not the winderable,

Harry. It is the central banks contract with you or your funcial institution to say, if you influ funds, we're offering you a forward market that you can buy and cover your forward exposure. This was supposed to be what

the airlines. You saw what last week with the last pieces we had, we talked about all most of the multinationals having foreign currency losses, and we're asking the question why didn't they hedge this whole we're talking about So if Guinness Pointance had bought a forward contract in dollar terms, Guinness could have then gone back to the Central Bank and says, hey won't buy dollars at whatever price

that is on that contract. But the bigger question to you is this, the airlines have got matured formal contract and the central bank has not paid them. So you want to ask except a question that even the guys that have no reasonable liabilities that are secretized with central Bank, that's not paid there. The airlines are similar paid. They pay them half or something like that. So that's the question right now. Does it really work? I was answer

that question on Twitter? Does this market really work? And the quotes are there, But if I buy that contract or the central band really pay me like an insurance communify, if I buy a life policy with a insurance contract, actually pay me when the event occurs, That's what's going on SACI it's a big problem. You know, we need the influence, but even when

the influence come in, I really I don't know. Let's I've answered that question, Sciate, thank you so much helped me really understand the constructure. And if you want to know where the market is the fx mark I'm talking about, go to at FMDQ there on Twitter at FMDQ, just follow them on Twitter. They have a Ford market. They keep a Ford market. You'll see the every day they post the rate on the dollar Nira and as on the Ford market, I try to share a screen shot on the Ford

market laterst assets that they have our shots put on Twitter. But that's where you get the forward market. At f MDQ, I've got ladies that lobby. Lobby go ahead, so you've got the floor. Yeah. Thanks. So, I mean, just looking at this situation, I feel Nigeria has a very ideal problem currently. Well, one question I also ask is going back to nigeria oil exports, Nigeria has about one thousands, hundred million bios per day and multiplying that with the current crude oil sales, I think Nigeria

has the potential to kind of post the effects reserve. But what do you think is actually the fundamental structural problem that is making these looks unachievable. It's it's a simple answer. It's a simple answer. Theft of crude oil. The figures you are quoting, if you can go on like to google and google Nigeria's oil ex sport, it's flat. We've not achieved the numbers that we're achieving, and I believe it's twenty twelve. Where we are right now

is what we're export in twenty twelve. But let me give you the problem. The probably that the oil has been stolen, so we're not exporting the volumes we should be exporting. When we drill oil, folks come in, put pipes to it and sell it. So even when oil prices go up, we don't get don't you think, Sorry, sorry to cry into ject, sorry, but don't you think that are contracting within the oil and gas assets asset space is also part of the problem. Yeah, yeah, but

even if the contracting was bad, that is a good question. We atually don't own those We don't own those cut yes, but we only need this on the different contracts from deep water PC in contrasts and GV contracts, so we own a percentage of those crutes. True, and an APEC does not to operate assets directly. They operated through thought party private companies, and those private companies have relationships that are either sisty forty fifty five forty five or even

for DEEPO is sisty eight at two. Problem. You're right, you're you're right that they we don't even know all of the quod couple with the fact that most of these guys are so I think we did sorry to inject the interject, but I just wanted to make this point. I think the real issues that the lot of engels are not seen is the report effect of sales of assets after shell doing hold on. That's not an access to indigenous hold on, who does not have experience, who does not have the liquidity,

who are portfolio companies. These companies were the gate the money was indicated to a lot of bands, both foreign and in and these guys are paying back their loans. So at the end of the day, an NPC typically is like they're the guarante for all of these loans because they are carrying they are kind of NPC's contracts, and because these payments are not remitted to banks. And they are also cheating the system by under declaring yeah, but under declaring

production and all sorts of things. And I'm funding their expensive lifestyles and telling investors banks that have invested in them to go to well, going to court to get injunctions so that the banks can all come after them contribute. Really, I mean, Bam, I hear you, Bam, I hear you. And if I sort I had to meet you, just just hold them. You're going far. You're going far. The point I'm making is this right today today go to the creeks. There are stories today right of Nigerian

crude oil pipelines being hacked into. We have videos from channels. We have the NNPC. We literally attution where the Nigeran Air Force is bombing illegal crude oil bunkring ships. We have Nigerian navy chasing large oil tankers to Equatorial Guinea. That's what we have right now. So the oil drilling oil contract is sphase two Phase one we are talking about. Is that right now as you

and I speak. If you go to natural Delta, they are ships, not tiny ships, huge oceangoing ships illegally entering Nigeria, taking crude oil without pain and exporting it. Go back to what Jaffy Morgan is saying. Jaff Morgan is saying that when Nigeria sales crude oil, there are no revenues flowing back to JP Morgan Jack morgan Is the Bank of Nigeria. Go back to the Central Bank Governor's comment. The Central Bank Governor Amphillis said that he has

not received revenues. Was before the flotation of the nira. He did not receive any revenues from the sale of crude oil. Isn't a tweet set what you find it? So Bam, your comments are correct. But that stage two, Stage one is that literally there's a war in that the delta. We have gun ships. It's been stolen. I'm not hiding Mark, it's been stolen. Mister, No you don't. You don't. Come on,

guys, take it for free. No, guys. Tony Ilumelo bots an oil field from Shell and he was on the newsaper saying that he got five percent of what was pumped from a to his terminal five percent, So who stole the net five percent? We've seen the navy with the Navy ship, the helicopter gunship sinking illegal ships in either delta. This translates to all of revenues revels are going to Domini account. There's twenty billion in Niger doom accounts

in Niger doom accounts already twenty billion. It is not own but the Central Bank of Nigeria. It's sitting in the balls. That's where the money is going to. I see videos or I saw a video of Tompolo with it with a room full of dollars. That's what the dollars is. Labby. You are you are talking because you hear Babby jumped in. Do you want to just close it out? Yes? I want to. How difficult is

it to I mean actress this this? I mean if you look at the history since bow is administra stress being well as being talked about, so how difficult. It's not difficult at all. It's some things that we are probably you know, take this contract first. It's not difficult at all. Labby. The very very first time we talked about crude oil taft on this space, we said that ships were selling to Nigeria under the watch of the Circuity

Services and nothing was being done. People came on this space and were arguing. There was a journalists that came from from Europe saying it was not true that they're not stainy whatever. Till now we saw the videos from Nigerian TV. An existing boy with pipes here. If you go back to that tweets here, a guy from Europe. The journalist came and said it's not true.

Two guys from some companies that oilselves companists came here and we're arguing Olive, you remember right, Two guys came here and we're arguing with figure that it's not possible. But now we'll say with our own two eyes, if the Nigerian president says that they should stop, this will stop. Because you have one check point. The oil must go out through the ships. It can't go out any other way. It must go out through a ship. So I mean, just put a submarinea and sink everything that is illegal.

They say environment. I am of the opinion if you're illegal, the airforces should sing the ship. End of story. Why should they sing the ship with arrested ships taking the ship to a Nigerian Navy jetty. So we arrested the ship with the crude oil. We took the ship with the oil to a Nigerian Navy jetty. The ship disappeared, not my words, the ship

disappeared from the Nigerian Navy jetty. Then not one, so doesn't happen once such on Twitter, on Google night ships were crude oil will disappear from Nigerian Navy, Nigeran Police custody Jetty. This is light news. So when you sink the ships, you you eliminated the fact that those ships can coop Nigeria and you start to have a handle on your revenues. That's what's going on lively. There's nothing misterious about it. If you stop this stealing, then

revenues of doors can go into the coffers. Then you can then see revenue start to pay up, and then we get a narrow going back up. And another thing it's doing is wishful thinking. If you don't like Scots crude oil, the doors can right go ahead. Yeah so sorry, I don't know if you've handled this. I just want you to help me paint like

a hypothetical picture. Right then, what happened if we had like three of our refineries working and we don't need to export crude oil, what scenario being the narra becomes becomes right now now, it becomes ten thousand to one dollar because you have to export crude oil. That's how you get your your for your dollar revenues in If you use all the crude oil, then you have no dollar exports. The onara becomes worthless. Remember happens what happens if we

refine oil. It doesn't make any difference where you. Crude oil is priced in dollars, not in naira. The crude oil in the in the homes, in the land, in natural delta, it's not priced in naira. It's just found in Nigeria. Whenever you refine crude oil locally, you are reducing the revenue should have gotten. In economics, the price of something is the foregone opportunity. So if I have an orange and I have an apple, and the apple costs ten dollars and the orange cost five dollars, the

cost when I take the orange is the cost of the foregone alternative. If you take crude oil and you'll refine it and you see it in nira, what you have lost is the red venues in dollars that you would have gotten. That's why you see Saudi Arabia seating. I think maybe you mistook my question. So I was asking like, if we refine right, and I assume that we pay fines or we pay SAMs, charge for refining this oil,

like when we're sport crude oil. So what happens when we refine like dangle Ta refinery right now, we will find and then we sell refined oil like out. I'm just a noise in this area, but I'm just curious, like how it works when the until refinary, for example, ships out refined oil instead of crude oil. When you get more revenues then because you have a lot more additives, you get petrochemicals, you real fatilizer, you get more revenues. But we don't have those refiners working. That's just what

I'm saying. So when we get the crude oil, we've always sold raw crude oil. We had the petro chemical plants in a Lemma that was sold to a private entity. So the Dangotted Petrochemical is going to be our first petro chemical. The Cadno one was the petrochemical plant is not working. The one important got any Pisos petrochal is not working. So we have no functional government or Nigerian owned petrochemical plant in Nigeria. It's just a Dangoted that has

started. If we had them working, sorry, it's should just complete it. So my question right now is I wanted you to paint miss scenario whereby we have four active working refineries in Nigeria. I wanted to like you to paint mis scenario what happens to our for it like it will go up. It will go up because then you are exporting more appartment, You're exporting more more add additives. Right, look at Dangle tri Dangle trifirm was the fertilizer

alone become the number one non oil export in Nigeria. That's why we have a positive balance of trade just exporting urea alone, just that single factory he came on air. Suddenly a balance of trade went positive just on Dangle Tea. So if we had all these guys working, revenues goes up, imports comes down. Simple simple call, thank you very welcomes. Yeah, someto go ahead, something you got the floor? Can you touch on the ship's

thing that you talked about as till something is going on? He said, the air force can save the ships if they really want to do this, because it really doesn't literally for me. Yeah, it's it's a hard call. It's a hard call because nobody wants the pollution. Right, So what was saying that we have illegal ships engine Nager waters and the very fragile waters. These are these are natural delts, are lots of marine life there. There's already pollution, so when you send the ship, pollution goes up.

But the problem is this right, those ships that are coming to Niger waters are the enemy. That was the vocal Haram because when they are there, they are taking away our revenues and it's corruption. They can only come in because Niger Navy, Niger Army are corrupt. That's what's going on. A

ship cannot float into the delta, take oil and float out. So the only way in my mind, if I was a basing Tinuble, I will say go and get a specialized team from the US or from Russia, from China and then with drones answering only to you Tinubu, and then tell an NPC we can only lift only from this time to this time ships can sail in and how to lift crude oil. Then tell those drone guys any ship that is lifting crude oil or you sending ship in another delta, just sink

it. Then have a show to put an NTI on ntier so we can see the ships. We can see they are manifest We can see what they're carrying and where they are going to. That's the legal ship put on Anti life channel does put a camera on the creeks. And this is the only approved route that oil carrying ships can leave ant Nagia and leave any other ship. Tell these guys that report only to you, not to your chief of Army, to your chief of police. Any other ship you see carrying anything,

just sink it way it floats. Just sink it. Don't ask any questions. Just sink the damn thing. When you sink five, nothing will happen again. Nobody, nobody will pay insurance to bring a ship in Ninigera and waters. It's a radical, it's it's it's not elegant. It's gonna cause environment degradation. But I assure you the stealing of cruel or Nagia will disappear. I assure you tound to the good Flosster. Sorry, sorry, I'm sorry, Really I didn't. I'm sorry really that you needn't recognize me,

but I needed to make it because you spoken. That's why you skipped by. Maybe you skipt my tone, no spoken earlier ahead, you're spoken that that's why it just skips you. Oh sorry, sorry, you know, like okay, so, so, so, I just want to make a quick point, right, I think there's a part that so I work in this industry and I'm familiar with all of these things that are talking about,

but there is a part that a lot of negatences don't know. Right, our assets ownership and asset management structure, right, this is very difficult

sometimes for the federal government to take some of those instans. Talking about why because so asset operators also had the word through a range ship to to to sell the air could they only give government their own share after sales because godment only gives them allocation every month to sell, right, So you need to understand that this structure is differ And that's why I wanted to ask you if you know about the Saudi model, which is like an off taker model to

Saudi model for the oil and Gaster said, is they have a Medica money manager who actually literally as off takes all of their production and give them liquidity based on a future production. Because what the system that we are running now is more in the hands of capitalist asset owners and because they control a lot

of the value and the supply chain to up to sales. It is very difficult for government to be able two hundred percents implement a lot of art decisions in that sector because today, I'll tell you the reason why our productions are low is because a lot of indigenous operators we bought a set from a shell, are produced into badge because they feel that the field that yes sport lines, so act the campaign and all of the other people complain about them producing

providing their LARTs, reading and then are the export terminal the gets far far lower than what they are produced. In a way to drive the conversation, most of them are now producing into badge in stories waiting on till the NNPC are proofs and export terminal type situations for them like the gos they did for

better my Way. So what you have this institution where people aren't no longer trusting their sports line and saying, okay, we're not going to producing to their sport line because we're not able to meet our financial obligations and pay our credit deltos because we're not getting value at the terminal. So we're going to produce into badge and ask getting PC to give us export light approval so that we can sell the coude from our peer source. So that those are the

issues that are going on in the window street now. So all of these productions that numbers that you see are females from international or platos who are dedicated, who are not putting corners, who are rulling out these volumes, these on agreements. But most of the dealers of regules are producing into badges. And that's really really really is but it has but I don't know if the point two budges. It is back to the issue that this security in another

delta cannot stop the illegal actions. That's the that's the reality that they's security in Niger. ALTA needs to step up. You can't steal the ship into Iranian or Saudi or evan Ghanian waters and take crude oil. It's only in Nigeria that you can load of ship soil into Nigeria, take crude oil and sail out. That's the point. No but on confirm reports put most of

those illegal illegal movements on them. Also, that's why sometimes when the government chess all the record records checks out, but they know that on the indigenous of no Bam Bam, I think that you're going to you're going to you're getting to you're going to do business generally. Bam, you're getting to the wheats. You're getting to the wheats. There are stories of Navy chasing ship to Criterial Guinea. That's not the inditional producers. There are stories of air

Force sinking ship. This has live stories that indigenous producers. The point I'm making is this, the situation in Nigeria is that we do not get revenues from the sale of our crude oil. That's the fact right now. Even if what you're saying is correct, it doesn't take away the fact that we are not getting the revenues that I should flow to Nigeria from the sale of

crude oil. That's the point I'm making with your your comments may be correct, but let's also address to comment that if you are in Nigerian president, you want to ensure that every drop of crude oil is accounted for and recording in NNPC that flows to your budget. That's the point and today is not happening. That's where I want us to because if we get into the weeds, we think, oh it's some other things happening. No illuminate no matter

what they are barging. They can't be barging. They whole seven hundred thousand barrels. And I'm quoting the last Minister of Stipo Petroleum, Timprea silver seven hundred thousand barrels a day is lost and shutting because the issue that's too much. Some time you back sometime it's not read. Let's get me start to do to do bomds to the bands. Yes, hello, can you hear me? I can hear you? S go ahead, okay, thank you, Thanks Califony. I appreciate the opportunity. I just want to chime in

on the peg versus versus float up. I think you led the show with that, and I want to say a few things and then I'll say I'll have your take. I'll ul the mike and then now I will get what your take is on on that. So it is obvious that there are times that economies will peg their currency for several reasons, you know, knowing that there are benefits to pegging. The most recent example I can give for that

would be China. You know, I think they ended their last peg in twenty ten, especially against the US della and mostly or the basket of current currencies. So to that effect, I believe that sometimes when we have these conversations, we tend to focus more on consumers. You know, we talk about the cost of goods, We talk about you know, purchasing things offshore, paying for schools and things like that. But how about say exporters,

you know, business people that are that are there. They're exporting things, not just the government now from Nigeria, so it does provide an opportunity for

them to competitive. One. And also when you pet, when you have the situation that we have having we had in Nigeria prior to President Bolatin, but coming on, you have to for a currency exchange regimes where you have you know, the central by guaranteeing one and then you have the Parallett market on the other hand, Also that provides some kind of arbitrage opportunities for those who you know, who trade in that world, not just for the high

rollers, but just for ordinary people. So those are just two basic examples I can give and I would like to take on that. And also lastly, I want to mention that historically when countries tend to pack their currencies, it does help local the local economy as well. It's there's some sort of a price control measure. I don't know if you could call that quantitative tightening of some sort that helps them, you know, again control the local economy,

and even if it's on an intern basis or in turn basis. So I guess my question before I yield the mind to you, will be if that was the way, and this is a big hypothe apothetically, if that was a way we could sharp our currency reserve. You know, can we have a situation we are it's advantageous for Nigeria to actually periodically really paying our currency, as opposed to just make an argument completely against pecking the currency. Okay, so just a quick quality. You're just a quick one, right,

So I'm not against or four or pegging or the value. Let me just explain what we're saying. Right, When you have a currency, you have, the dollar is the referenced currency. So if I want to import cars from Japan, I don't go, I don't go Nigeria. I don't go Nira to yen. I go Nira to dollar to yen. The dollar is always the reference currency. So when countries peck, when you hear a peg, countries simply say to make things easier to make our economy more predictable.

We will take our local currency and we peg it to something. You could peck to gold, you can pack to crude oil, or you can peck two dollar if you peck to dollar. Like most of the oil exporters. Do you see the oil guys in the Middle East, they all peg their currency to the dollar. You're sac. You're saying, if you want to buy dollar or buy use realites, it's the same as a dollar, So no wa halla, just you can trade and you know the value is

always going to be the US dollar. That's what Nigeria did right. Nigeria is saying, listen, you can plan your economy because we're going to peg our nira to the dollar. So it makes planning easier. Even if its turn is twenty or five, it doesn't matter how the dollar is pegged to a nira, so it's the planning easier. But when you say you have a peg, if you look at your currency in the past, the currency would say you can trans you can take this paper because the paper you have

is not money, it represents Savis in the central bank. He says, you can take this paper to the central bank, and the central bank would give you gold. That's what the paper would usually have said. Now that paper doesn't say that anymore. The Nia will simply say that it is pegged. So if you take your Nira to the phone exchange market, the central bank is saying, will give you four hundred and sixty eight, which was the peg, which meant the central bank has got dollars in reserve to execute

that exchange. So you bring your one nira, you bring your phoner sistate Nira, I give you one dollar. That's what that peg was meant. The airlines took their fall as sistate now to the central bank and could not get dollar. Witness that peg was not working anymore because the central bank did not have sufficient dollars. We did not know this till this report camera that our reserves are should we say either thirty billion or twenty billion. China pegs

is currency. But China has three trillion dollars in reserves, three trillion, So why you can't harass them because they have three trillion. Remember back in the days of George Sorrows and the British pound and the repe monetary system, what happened. The UK pegged their currency and Joge Thorres went and bet against the use the British pound, and the British pound eventually calculated and George Roles was reported to have made a billion pounds in profit. So it's not the

PEG that is a problem. Is the father that if you want to do a peg, it means you have reserves. I get this example dangle Te. Let's say I peg my reserves to dangle Te. Dangle ted buy it's private jet. Would I have the reserves to buy private jet? Would I now go on borrow to buy private jet? Which is what Nagier did That j pegged is currency to the dollar. But when the dollar was getting stronger, the Nira should have been devalued to maintain the peg rather than we kept

the peg at the four City eight. So what happened. Of course we had to go borrow in dollars. That's why you see the CBN borrowing from JP, Morgan and Chase to maintain that pig, to pay the airline, to pay everyone else. The issue is not the peg. Can afford the peg is the issue. The answer for Nigeria we cannot afford it. China can, so that's why they can peg. Does that make sense sir,

Yeah, yeah, it most certainly does. I guess what's what I take from I actually thought that you were completely opposed to the ideal peg pegging the

currency, but now I have a better understanding opposition. But then what I also take away from what you just said is that whatever the benefits that floating the currency presents, like I mentioned the arbitrary situation, because you can just have somebody buying low as selling high, operating with hin two regimes, you know, go to the CBN and then turn around and go to the power

the market. But either way, whatever benefits that it itself presents, it doesn't really asset the problems of the Chinese we're facing with the pegging situation. And again, yeah I get you, and again don't forget that people always DEALI there's an absolute here in economics. The US dollar is not pegged. The US dollar flutes, but the Central Bank of the US intervenes in the US market. Central banks can intervene in an open market by buying and selling

currencies. So the europe the European Central Bank can intervene even though the market is not regulated or not pegged. That's the problem. If you if you don't have reserves. You can't talk. But imagine today I want to bet against the Chinese one. How much do I have to borrow to bet against the Chinese one when the Central Bank of Channel has three trillion? But if you have right now all the speculators, I assure you, the speculators saw

that Nigeria have twenty billion. They saw this report before you and I did, and that was why you saw this massive sell of nira. That's what's been going on that this report, the twenty billion you're seen was people knew it. I knew it. I didn't talk because if I took you sway your proof, you can't produce proof. It was an open secret that Niger could not be You don't have to have a straight secret line. Naga couldn't pay airlines, if Naja can't pay airlines. You know that the phone reserve

pollution is weak last week or limited? I want to talking about it. Last week what we said that they're not trying to stretch the market and said no, they don't have money. We said it on the same space last week. So if you know the Nigeria has no money to do a PEG, what do you do you sell the Nira. You buy dollar and you wait eight years. The best investor in Nigeria was buying dollar and waiting. The best investment better than celling coulde oil. Buying dollar and wait. Right

now there's a flux. The sit then can break many people's legs. The next one we give it just sells one billion dollars. People's leg will break, but it doesn't solved the problem. To make people lose money for the next maybe two months, they will be a bit more careful, but it doesn't solve the problem. Problem is that there's a lack of supply. Somehow the owners of the forest in Nigeria don't want to bring forests into Nigeria the

diaspora. They don't want to bring for money in. I don't know why, and I believe it maybe because they're not seeing the policies or to the president, or they're not comfortable with the press administration. But there's something going

on that Nigeria is maybe because they maybe they're they're fine. Many many guys are working in the IT space back here in America, and in America most of Nigeria will be are working at IT space or are traders, or because the traders in Japan and China are do this to container are not making enough money to sell containers because consumption has fallen. But what we know is that the flows of does the central bank has fallen, but the P to P

is still active. Or that tell you the Nigeria don't trust central Bank of Nigeria. They don't trust the government. They prefer to do P to P than the Central Bank of Nigeria. So what would the smart pros say? Would that? Do you go to P to P and you do agreement what a Nigera is doing? I saw one silly headline somebody who wasn't it you go and burn Beyonce or P to P market, So I'm money will flow

to you to central bank? Can you imagine? So if you burn Binance, then you think the Nigeria and you just banned them, will not think they're going to central band? Are you? Oh my? This is twitters? But don't make the photo banals. But you can't say that, you can't. Eve won't say that right and that's a problem. Can I add to this conversation? Sorry, I just I just want to use the maric Well, thanks Calo for your for your take. I really appreciate it.

Thank what comes to thanks you appreciately to this conversation in China. What happened in China? Yeah, the China Nigeria PEG story. You want to talk, you want to talk more, and I don't want to add to it, go for it. Yeah. So I don't think that the unique in between China PEG and Jina PEG is they they're actually in reverse direction. China is pegging the currency and actually devaluing our currency. True, so the issue

has always been that China diverse a currency to boost experts. So by China pegging the currency as a lower value, that was always found increasing their forrectu selves. In the engineer's case, we are pegging our currency and making it look stronger. In that case, we have to take place our forrectu selves to defend that page. In Chenna's case, they actually are crue for exercers

because of bad valid a currency. So for instance, we can just say now, seem I can say now that dollar is twenty two dollar, right, if we wants to pay for a pay for it our forts, that would it would increase right A fox in because you want it will have black black markets anymore. Because if I am an investor that wants to bring into the engineer our roder. Give it to center back. Then go to the black marketer seven at nine hundred or at per seven dollar and the first that

would actually increase. So that wasn't that a decay difference between China and then Julia. And understand that difference saying that what we're doing one wasn't sustainable, we don't have the money to do it, and it was actually counterproductive to export industry. Guy you're dropping, watch your scen is so important. I won't put to understand what you're saying. Let's just understand just you watch your

scen is so important to see. When I tell people this there is no developed nation on Earth and google me a fact checked me that wants a strong currency, I say, these people will say, Nina should be strong. We want a strong mirror. No nation wants a strong currency. They don't want it to fall. But they don't want a strong currency. Why because your country is strong it kills your exports. China's money comes from exports.

So like, what are this guy is saying? They are wanting a week you want so are buying a lot of US treasuries to weaken the yend. That's their advantage. I mean, put this way, if you have a weak currency, it gives you an advantage. If you go today and you devalue your currency just to export, the US government would ban you, label you a currency manipulator, and ban you to show you how bad is strong

currency is. So like he's saying, China is doing the opposite. They are pegging their currency to keep it weak, not to make it go strong, to keep it weak. But Nigeria's case, look at what's happened Nigeria. We print naira, that nira goes to buy more dollars. Then we then increase the MPR on the printed naira to kill SMS, causing exposts to

become cheaper than lookout production. It's all about the place. The same seven is fighting inflation and creating inflation, the same CBN, and let's look at is continually. If I don't make sure your point was well appreciated, Thank thanks. I think that's that's what I have said about that excellent point. I just answered that quickly because that's very very powerful way you just I don't

know who, but that's literally what has happening. But I just wanted to talk on the US Treasury sting from China, and because you literally answered my question which was before the progress Becaspel, which was you said you already knew about this, most economies already for all this are known, but they didn't want to talk. I wanted to show Carlwell, we can plead that you keep talking because there's a lot of people who really do not understand how to

articulate this down to the level that you would. The media and your rest too. So please, where you know that the CBN is insolvent, please say it. But we said it. I've said it open on Twitter. I said keep your dollars close. I can't say directly because I cannot give your advice on social media, So I said keep your dollars close, and many in terms. I've told Nigerian's many times that if you are not spending that naira in three to six months, whole dollar. I've said it many

times on Twitter, many times on Twitter. I just can't give you advice because of my license, and but I've said it over and over, keep your dollars close. If you're not spending naira for two to six months, don't hold Nairah said it over and over. You have to. If you don't do this space you limited will come and say, oh, we're not giving advice, but we say it here. Well, people will argue, people will drop some things here, you will pick up what's going on.

You know, Remember that Niger's will spend dollar, Nigers will spend Niger's spend naira. The problem with Nigeria is that the basic thing that we spend money on, which is food, the bulk of it is important. That's the problem with Nigeria. It's not our right is paid in naira. Our schoolies are paid in naira. Fuel is spaiding naira. But food. When you

see a poor economy, how you know your poor economymrich economy. It's not the amount of cars or infrastructure, it is how much this society spends on food. The average American spends far less on food than the ABD Nige ABRAD Nigera spends sixty eight percent of its income on food. Why because it's important. If we made if we praise all our food locally, we only have a problem with inflation or even with the dollar, because you will just be

enough. You know, You'll pay all your food in Naira, you rent your house in Naira, you go to school in Naira, you go to the hospital in Nira. But right now, if you are really really ill and I enjoy, you have to go abroad. If you really want to give your kids a good education, you have to go abroad. If you want to eat really really good food, you have to go up on and

import food. So the bulk of what is modern society operates. And if want to drive your car, you have to go abroad in Nigeria have to go au abroad and bring the field of jager can Nigeria. So that's the problem in Niger that we we've turned the economy into an one people think where import dependent. We're not. We export more than we import. But we've depended the breakfast table of the Nigerian. It's important, the blanche table,

dinner table is important. I grew up eating only important food in nature because there was levanties. It didn't occur to me. But the society has changed. Guy rich like that, right, So we have to change. But right now we're battle. We started from imported rice. Even tomato is imported. Right now, tomato is imported. Vegetable oil is imported, Chicken is important. Even Gary, there's important Gary. Guys, Gary, there's important

Gary. Water we import sparking the water? What the f are we important sparkling water for? Why doing it sparking the water? I'm not kidding. I have a picture on my phone. It put it got to shops and a budja it's important water. Why are they important water in a budja because they're budjat pole that have money will buy it. There's no important water in

my village because then I won't buy it. And that's upon those consumption levels from the guys that get quote unquote token are let they at w't spend all this money on non sense. So so so this is that I just put the question and then you just go ahead, Okay. I wanted to dose the elaborates. This is already touched on. I wanted to really elaborate inasmuch as you are really, from your point of view, articulated that the oil

theft is a significant portion of the issue. And I wanted to really elaborate on the credit expansion of the niger Narra and how much of in terms of comparison of an issue. Would you put it when you when you talk about

the credit, the oil theft, right? And the reason I asked this is because of social laughable comments about the buyonans beat beating that that came out from another media, right, because in my view, if really really are saying buyers is the determining factor of the Nigel and Narra, then buyonus is in my own point of view, miss pricing the Nira, because they should really tell us that the naras like five thousand para right a part All right,

I'm sy. I just wanted you to speak on that. And whether or not the market has priced in the really included Nigeria, that's difficult question. That's you know, the price of something takes into effect the current status and the future status. Those are inflation. If I think the price of something's going to go up, the price goes up. If I think the president can come down, the price comes down. If you ask any niger on the street today if they think price of gary will go up or down

in the next three months, their answer is going to go up. And that's the problem in Nigeria. Because we think the price of goods are going to go up, we react that way, and then we spend because ones who are avoid being caught up in a rising market. So if you go to your question, now we have the price of dollar, it's gone up from seven hundred rights or both nine hundred. Then most of the folks are today are buying dollar, don't need dollar. Most of the folks today that

are just buying end dollar don't need it. Why are they buying it? Because they want to hedge their nira from losing value due to inflation. So you see guys buying a one hundred dollars just to keep They don't need to be import anything, because why do you need dollar? You get dollar because you want to import. But if you don't want to import, why are you're holding is a piece of paper? It doesn't even pay you interest.

So nigers are going to the bank taking away they are nira from the bank vote that are ending them interests of say ten percent, converting to a paper and holding that paper in their hand. Why are they doing it? Because they believe that the rate of inflation is going to be more than the rate of interest that they are ending from giming to the bank. And they've improven right because the rate of inflation today is twenty two percent and the rate of

interest is ten percent, So the advantagen has been proven right. They are proving right to hold that paper that's keeping in the bank. So if you're a policy maker, how do you solve this? There are two weeks. You can say, well, I'm going to increase the interest rate right so that Nigents will be forced to keep the money in the bank, because if you can take it to twenty five percent, the Nigerians would know that if I keep going the bank for twenty five percent, I don't need to buy

dollar because my mind, the bank will pay you more than inflation. But once you do that, you kill the economy because the essames will die. They can't borrow at twenty five The other way you gonna do it is to reduce the inflation rate. You say, okay, we're going to drop the inflation rate to be low ten percent, which means if I keep going the bank, I know even at my ten percent, it's higher than inflation. Hence nigents don't need to take Nira from the bank to buy dollar. If

you do that, then you're on something. How do you use inflashment Nigeria? You ask yourself, what is causing the inflation Nigeria Food. We're back to this garating again. Is food. Food is fifty one percent of the consumer price index in Nigeria, which means if you reduce the price of food

by ten percent, you've given everyone Nigeria a ten percent inflation respite. So we should focus like a laser on that food inflation to reduce the price of food, even if it means allowing for ninety days on bridled importation of food into the country to drop the price of food. Yes, farmers and Nigeria will lose business. Yes you would import more, but there are no straight

asters with the economies. Will you will replace high inflation with high importation, but at least you are brought down inflation to a level that will allow the Nigeria and keep money in nira. As long as people are feeling that the Nia will go down, it will keep on going down. So strategict, that's where we are right now. It's a site ecology thing. It's more

of excite cooginal than economics. The real is not more than seven. I hear that, but sometimes from people from other economies who to say it, it seems like They are not factoring the fact, Yes, psychology is important, but they're not factoring the fact that they literally is more nira out there than that they should be right or is that they rung for some positions. There is more nira that has been printed, that is true, and that

drives inflation. We've printed to the trade trillion that has driven inflation. But inflation is not just caused by the printing of money alone. The US has been printing money even in the past. Remember on that Trump. They were printing money before Trump got there. As infatient in the US two percent, it didn't rise. Why didn't it rise productivity? Because the economy is soaking up the money, it's soaking the top these productivity gains. Has all that

money is going to new Microsoft, New Google. There is no productivity in Nigeria. You see guys in elevators as elevator operators. That's also a son of low labor productivity. I tell you this, if you give everybody in Nigeria one million narra cash, everyone Nigeria woman arra cash, what would they do with it? They will start to buy things they could never afford.

A new TV, a new fridge, a new air conditioner. So if there was productivity, if you had companies that had fridges air conditioners in their warehouses, they will be no inflation because the womanner a cash will go from cash assets to buy assets. The problemages that there's no air conditioners, there are no fridges, there are no TVs that those guys can buy. So all that cash is just swall down the system with velocity, and that's what's

causing inflation. It's not the money per se in your hand that's causing inflation. Is that our money is just sitting in your hand, just going to day you buy land that one hundred nine. There's no where else but I'm going to go. You can start the business with that money having your hand. If you take your tim non I started, they'll tax you for signage, they'll tax you for TV license. So the money is not invested.

If the money was printed and invested to increase the productivity, you wouldn't see the inflation you've seen. So let's go someone else. Let's get to mister moral less. I'm gonna write to mister moral less. How are you going? How you doing so? Very good? Thank you? Yeah, So I'm thinking of traveling conversation in different direction. So I'm taking the dollar. So from my understanding of finance, I know, like Nigeria, so do

we we kind of get dollars as a country. We have and I know like four four main streams as a revenue from foreign forignst was basically whyland like then we have the heavy eyes, the APIs, and then we actually have revert chances. So I think most of our focus has always been on like the revenue aspect of things. And when we talk about revenue, we're talking about who are revenue. I mean, oil makes about eighty percent of insinuations. Revenues are trained to twenty I guess. So first of all, I

think nagera and is diversification. I mean, we need to be able to diversify from majority of our revenues coming in through hoyer another day, we need to find abut to increase our heavty eyes and APIs. Of course, people are not actually attracted to the country. I mean investors are not really willing to invest in the country because the policystem makes the economic conditions are not really great. So even we as an external investor, I wouldn't invest in Nigeria

despite the market. I mean there's alsays an available market in the Ingeria for investors, but economy is not really attractive. So in terms of remittances, so I think another way we get to a lives remittances. What money has not been first comment like that's due to the economic global economic downtown. I mean if you check the if you checked the data, the amount that has been remitted to Nigeria is as being relatively flat. It was green at one

points. Were then used to the conduct the global economy down town. People are norm reminting as much as and I'm blocking up remotis. I'm talking about people sending money from abroad to their relatives and Nangia in the country. So if we can lecturely like get these these things flowing, I mean, if you can increase are revenue damastify from wid production basically because I mean oil is like if we durettning Nangia even in an affects oil affects Nigera's revenue directly.

And that's like one of the challenges we're facing. Remintansies are not communion, IFDs are not communion, if peers are not communi as well, we are meant to actually focus on it all have we gets from seal upport, So as we do this, I think I think used to improve in production basically production and productives as you said, So if we increase our productivity, you're able to sell more, We're able to export more. And also you mentioned

talking about inflition, so I'm a real opinion on that. Ngina's inflation is cost cost and supply pushing inflition. So most of our preation has not really been about the printing on nire and the likes like that. So it is like a major insecurity in the country which has sti food production and productivity. Our agriculture are sector is stag nance coutative insecurity in our agricultural areas like the

northern sides, and then you start a built of Nigeria. So if there's insecurity in those areas, we can actually produce agriculturally, and agriculture contributes like majority of our gityp So if that area is not really like coming up, I don't think they can really do much about that, so we have instead. I just think we're not really focusing on the writings they were focusing on.

Why focusing on how to get all I think we Niger particular is to work on the economy of first of all, make attractive economic policies, fixed security issues. If you fix security issues, productive physical and countries in the country and the legs like that. So that does just what I have to see where I just I just think if the main thing is not really whole

thing, and then the dollar is not a problem. Even as a last week, I got some information that Citi and some injection about fifty or twenty million dollars into the economy, but it's still did not like working anything because the backlog of dollard demagine Nagera is crazy high. Nigera is about five billion dollars injectual at least even find a way to crush this current exchange rates. So I think our focus has been majorly may be on the wrong end.

We need to find a wad too, increased productivity in the country, sell more, get more dollars and not necessarily writing, diversify every entirely from the curt and and what's the biggest you know, productivity gain that Nigeria can do immediately is going to just be power. Our power is thirty percent of the cost of the sames and most factors in Nigeria power. So imagine if we just focus on power and we say we're going to fix power even in legals.

Legos is the manufacturing hub in Nigeria. If you fix power in legals, then you sort of staid to fix this whole idea of productivity because once productivity is going up, then prices start to fall. All these things we can't afford in Nigeria and all these sagas where things because there is no consumption happening Nigeria. The Nigerian Bureau of Statistics said as a twenty twenty two household consumption was negative. I think it's negative for negative. So Nigerians are not

spending and consuming. That's the problem. So you want to go in and make Nigerians spend. After that we had the attacks on an eleven. What did the US President say go out and shop? He didn't say buy a new missile or he said go out and shop. Why because consumpting is sixty percent of the US economy. Consumpting is sixty percent of the Nigerian economy. So if Nigerians are no longer consuming because goods are too expensive and goods are

too expensive because power alone it's thirty percent of the cost of goods. Then it makes sense to fix power. Then goods fall. Then probably your middle class can start to afford it. You see niger you see a banker, let me give it. You see a bank We had a space here as well. You see a banker ending a million narra a month. He's a single guy, one million naire a month. That guy can't afford to buy a house in Nigeria or in legos Porttacota, Abuja. He can't afford to

buy a house in legals Portatua. Ending a million in Nigeria. To end a million a month makes you in New York you would be maybe at the one percent if you're converted in proportion. Young man, not married, no liabilities, ends a million a month, he can't buy a house in Legos, Then what are we talking about? What are we talking about? So as long as goods are twixts, we can't buy new shoes. Kids are

one of the schools classes. It's gone better, Continer. When we're middle school, you buying, you go, you go to batter and you buy your batter Courtiner, brand new. No questions asked you buy your brand new batter cortina. You buy what brand new s white sox, you buy brand new knapsack, you buy brand new books, you buy brand new everything that is consumption for the household. So the guys are sell better. I know that every beginning of year they're going to sell out. So the import leather,

the import gone. They borrow one from the bank, they hire people. That's their economy. Little wheels turning together to make a bill. We will turn. So it's this is the core of the problem Nigeria, poor people, poor wages, high inflation, high insecurities. If you fix power, you sort of fix that whole productivity. The remittances, you know, is we're still doing social shrewmittances. Right. So Amica is any one into Mamian Mecca. But if you tell a Mecca in America, America is getting

one percent if you put one in the Semis account. If you tell a Meca that we can we can give you five percent APR. If you invest in Nigeria and will pay your taxes, will do everything for you know the words put it in the bank and will get the money from you and mac I will do it. Then we take that money and we give it to niger Importance to import goods, so we can have a way to finance imports

through the diaspora. But we're not thinking we're going after oil sales. Oil oil oil oil is less than fifteen percent of our GDP, but everything here has oil oil oil, So we have to have guys that can think. Can I add the commentailities, let's go ahead to thank you. I haven't thinking about this entera across situations, and I think that we all agree that

the key into changing our fortunes is improving productivity. But there's there a few things that we have to do in the Miditerans to basically turn around this situation. First of all, I unless we do the right things, there's really no reason why they never should fall. And beyond none of the pano dollars nanadvers right down on the black market. And I'll give you a few reasons.

One, the black market is an extremely inefficient and expensive market. I always believe that the true value of nara at any point is what is only official rate is pushing deficial rates and the black market. But like Carnow said, expectations and fears keep pushing that things. For those things ahead, I'm pushing black market, no awkward or the twitters that the black market is actually

very in efficient. It's very expensive. If you want to buy one billion dollars on the black market, you have to talk to multiple agents and each agent is going to ask some transa cost to wais that shows you how you an efficient black market is what the government should be doing. What the Sabian should be doing is actually not just trying to devalue, is actually creating a

single exchange market. We don't need the black rt. There's no reason why I cannot stand my dollars semiar dollars on the eye on the eye window. There's no reason why why any body should be prohibited from buying on the eye window. If everybody can buy on the iron Windo in a single exchange, then the black market will see to exist. What the Sybel will be eventually doing them is that they're able to monitor the total volume of forects in transactions

and that will really help things. That's the force them. But right now they said that for one, items are banned, so that always creates a market for you know, for the black market. Remove those bands we can always have, we can always increase the reptilities crops reduce up on the scot one items right, so that even if the buyer on the eye will do that, we're going to import to say, right, whatever it's banned, then just charge the forty percent the two percents, but wants to import water,

charge the one hundred percent. We don't ban you from important or just just play the right chargers for it. That's the first. The second thing I also think is that there's really no need for us to have cash, I mean physical bank notes of forects in Ninjina. If we're able to force to get everything into the eye window, we should go to do the transactions

in subscribe online, in digital transactions. There's really no need for you to have cashons of forest Nagia because we all know that the legal center for Nangia is Mirro, So there's really no need to have cash. That I think there's a the first that we need to do the second time. But I think which is probably most important that probably easier to do is if we look at what the sibling has been doing for consistently for the past eighty years,

is they've been increasing money supply. As a matter of fact, between when two overcame in, maybe between May to July, we'll increase many super by nine percent, and all of us study we are surprised that we've have devolution, you know, maybe about ten percent or two or twenty percent more in the same in the same window. We just need to stop increasing money supply.

Don't increase the amount of nerrow systems. Forget about. If we just increase, it does put the numbers stag that why are those people that in that team just shot it down? If we have one pet and layer today, if you're showing arou for the next six months, okay, let me let let me play the worst advocate. When you say this increasing money supply, they're just borrowing, that's what you're saying. They're just borrowing. How would they get money, They don't borrow. There's no money in this you're

right, you're right. So when you say that, So the reason why the sabling has been increason went supply is the coran to fund government transactions. Yeah, right, So the government itself they need to call their cost and they already have done the right they've done the right things. For instance, they have to pay subsidy anymore. It's why borrowing forward? We have to play for somebody anymore other moneys, so should coming to the government revenue.

Whatever cannot work in that system, then the conversation of the pinions, there's really no reason why they should be funding travels or examples for saving servants or whatever it is, like that is all they need to do. Whatever it is what TEPIC cannot fund from saving money? Who's sing from your socidy? We'll move all today, then don't just do it? Takes essentially second. No, we're to move on with the currency significantly for every dollar that again

in them making a lot of one eer. So exactly what are you still try to put the money for it? Again? I got you so again the point is this, like when you say we should have a single market, totally agree. Lots of folks are saying on Twitter between the only price, the only real price for dozen Nigeria is the black market. It's not the I n E Window, It's not it's only the black market. To they's a real price because that's the market that has a willing buyer and a

willing seller. The iron e has forty four items ban So to your point, if everything is on the on one single market, and let me trances go to one single market, and I go to that market. Fair enough. You shouldn't stop anybody. If I want to import sparkling water and I can't pay forty nina, let me import my sparkling water. And when you say push, you have dollar cash. Don't restrict people. These are the things that who don't like, you know, don't restrict for what to do

with their money. If I want physical dollar cash, let me have it. If I want to take the lark cash to pay for my subscriptions, let me have it. But price me appropriately right so that way I know what the cost is to me. If I can afford the cost, I leave it and go away. So I totally agree on those two points. We have to stop there, you know. Don't America will stop. If you go online today, you can buy the dollsand yen. American not asking you what to do with your dosan a yen. If you can afford it,

buy it. If you can't afford it, leave it alone for people that can afford it. It's that simple. Let's get first first first light, go ahead, sir, first light. Hi, how are you? I'm very well, so thank you so much. Hi is everybody, We're doing good. We're doing good. Good listener. I just think that another thing we need to walk town in Nigeria is the drive. I see everybody

gets emotional when it comes to what happens to Nia. The first discussion is everybody go gaga dan Nia is now nine hundred to one and blah blah blah. Let me give you an example. That's I'm speaking with you. I'm in se and in the hotel where I love, I was starting to pay with dollars. Candl, I'm sure you know you know the guest. The guest is yours. You know what I'm saying. They didn't take dollar from me. Do you know why? Which you know in Nanger at the moment,

you can't any hotels. You give them dollar. Everybody wants to listen to you. Am I correct? I gave them dollar. That lady said no, we can't take dollars. And I asked why. She said, at the end of this, she's gonna be at the losing side because when she take that dollar back to the bank to get run, they're gonna charge her about one point five percent of that amount. Whichever manch's gonna change to at the end of the day, a thousand dollars a thousand round room.

She's gonna end up getting number eight hundred and fifty. She said, of what reason would she'll do that? She said, she's not interested. I should find a way to change the money and pay her a rund. So it means that they've got in to a certain point. I don't think you will ask and have great side African what is the exchange rate? He's not interested? Do you understand? So I think we need to change. First, we need to do a serial orientation with Nigeria and secondly government needs to

start doing something. You know that thing you said when you said that you're an a millionaire and you cannot afford a house in Nigeria until Nigerian government wakes up and liberalize. That house is set up and as a liberalization. Mister Carluke, has been two years. I applied for federal mcgate loan. Listen to this God approved last year February. I have not gotten this goossment. L tell as I'm speaking with you, fifteen million naira. Guess what with

this inflation? With this all these changes in everything spent has gone up. The guy who wants to sell me. The house is already telling me that my fifteen million naira is dead on arrival. Right, But imagine that if that settle is liberalized, allow the commercial bands like it's done in other developed world that single digits rate on housing. For instance, I got a job,

I'm ending five hundred thousand eerror. A bank approached. I wanted to bedroom apartment that is about twenty million R and I'm gonna pay for ten fifteen years. Of course, the moby I have a house, I'm tied to them. The deduction is going on every month. I won't put myself on the necessary pressure to try to even seek a kind of gratitude to steal because

I need to buy a house. Because these are things that first destroy the middle class because you can afford it, and then you want to do everything, you take advantage of people to all manner of things just to raise that money. And that's why I also say that government need to topple down on housing first and non transported. These two aspects. I mean, Car will

speak on this your your your your platform very really well. Trust imagine that this Car's problem when this sortedy thing was taken off, I wasn't expecting that townther government. We say that we need about ten million busses. Those ten million busses, all the companies that are producing car in Nigeria produce me ten million bosses directly to me and we pay you. But the production had to

be in Nigeria. Do you know what ten million? If you want ten million busses in Nigeria, do you know how many people that is going to employ it? It means that it will drag a lot of people out of for the CMG thing we're trying to introduce. So if that happened in transportation, it means that less people we drive the account on the rule. Let's say we start with a million a year. A million a year, it

means that a lot of people are gonna get you. Because I was listening to alex Otig the other day he said he ordered for car from Innocent because Innocent he's still assembling car with authodox way. He's still tighting with hand and led people to use hand to type cars. And I'm sure not does the same thing when in others factory here in South Africa, the biggest factory afford

is here. They can assemble, they can tell you that they're turning out a car about twenty or one thousand and two thousand vehicles in one month. So if we if government need to topple down on that, buy robotic machines for those companies as his kind of investment into their businesses to open, not to allow them to produce in mass. Right, it's only a government that can show that this thing. Any company who is a Nigeria who is a

local manufacturer, buy those equipment that he needs for him. Don't give them the money because when you give them the money, like you say, if you give me ten one million dollars, one million dollars with a million dollars, I just need to go down the roads from four a million dollars, give me a nine hundred million, nine hundred million nina, you give me ten million, I hear you. Yes, I think the thing about the dollar when you say South Africa, I mean we've said it before here.

Nigeria don't spend dollar. Nigeria spend nina. So it's a reason why they are going to the dollars for inflation to hedge there, you know their nira. What's the infatials in South Africa? Do you know the inflationary is five point five. Yeah, so if I have five point five, I'm not too worried. I mean, it's bad, but I'm not too worried about it. Right even if I even if I get from the bank two percent, Okay, I lose in three percent, But in Nigeria is twenty two

percent, double digits. What I'm saying is what I'm saying is whether inflation is twenty two. I'm talking about the idea, the concept of Nigeria. When you talk economic. The first thing the pro that you are the idea stick of the economic is good is the fact that Nina is this expo and you are in South Korea? What is the South Korean dollar to what is

the value of South Korean corency two dollars or even Japan. But the what I'm trying to explain is that Nigerians today are buying dollars because the nira does not hold value. The South Korean currency is twenty one thousand to one dollar, but it holds value. That's the point I'm making. What's the infasion in South Korea? Because because they produce? That's so where I said, this is where I'm not debating. I'm agreeing with you are not explaining why

Nigerians want to hold dollar. If I hold one naira, If I hold a million naira and infecion is twenty percent, then I'm not only holding anything, right, But if I hold a million rand and division is five percent, I can live with that as a point I'm making. So you have to address why Naderas don't want to hold naira. If you take away the inflation, then probably you get more folks. That's where I'm going to do that, all right, thanks man, I send off again. Like I

said, those houses build the transportation and the housing sector. It's something that you got very really double down on those things. I see those things turning around and Juanna commandy because by that, you're gonna tie down Nia that we're seeing, and we're gonna tie down people. We don't drive more of their vehicle. You use more of those bosses. If we go into production, it's easier to do logistics of our maga fact over our or agricultural thing from

the rural area to the city center without paying through your nose. That's just what I think, Thank you very much. I use for now. Hey, welcome the farmer man. How you do so, I'm calling you farmer man? Now. I saw you got married, so that means you're I'm man, it's a farm man. Correct connotations. Thanks where my thanks to cad Uh. It's always a pleasure of being on a platform most time because I have always learned a lot and as I've always say, I'm not an

acknowledged ann to have any background when my sense. But sometimes I wonder if basic and let me even use common sense works in Nigeria, like I've already been saying, and why even let me even say, the least person in this society is much more interested is a muted dollar amant dollar. And I kept on saying the problem is this and you have also, I say,

a lot of things and white people are much more interested for me. I don't care how modellar is today, but it's it's it's it's it's eat me badly whenever I want to buy some certain things I need for production, and I felt, who have no interest in dig dollar of a thing? When government starts even following money not just to spend or to go for party, but for production, the movement we start producing a lot of things we need ourselves and I normally saying this, see I don't we like it or not?

The bedrock the bedroom for any nation. And sustainability for let me say, for a poor nation, and like NINETYA is when we take our agriculture serious. And my journey in egg business just opened my eyes to a lot

of things that you have also mentioned that a negidens. Let me say we are a poor nation and there is something working without psychologically because I noticed one in the moment with porting from my stardus recovering from the I or should I call it nastation or something, And the whole business was just getting bad. Suddenly we had about subsidy remover and everything, the purchasing power and everything. God, look now that the students are on break, nobody is even buy

an egg. So I it's my distin now come to life. Oh now students eat eggs because they're going to school and they will have their colleagues eating eggs. But now that they are at all, you don't have to eat EXLM. But for somebody that has the money, that has everything, they will continue to eat. Because I think XS just like a basic thing a child should to get used to as a child. So for me, we need to push all our nights on production and redals the amount of money we

spend on things that are not necessary. And somebody was able talking about policy. The issue of could and everything is not going anywhere because those who are benefiting the most are doing little or no work and it is just for them to people just to let me say the government gets a dollar in return and in one way or the older the conut everything and say, but that's they're not working areas don't. It is whatever you produce. At the moment you

misfire, you're failing immediately. The money is coming from I hear you. I think the issue again is that you know I see I on Twitter, I follow you. I see where you were supplying eggs. You know you are supplying eggs with the truck you're putting stuff. It's wanting has struck me very manual. I don't know where you're supplying. You're supplying to I compared to how eggs are transported, say, are brought to markets, and it just strikes me. The level of you know everything, I just seems to

be this productivity gap. We're having nights. You're a productivity gap. You know, that's to me the bigger problem, not just the production, but that the roads are not good. It costs you a lot to deliver your eggs from your farm to the money to the consumers. This is where to me, I think it's the bigger problem. And even the production. If you produce a million eggs, what do you do the basic social amenities that

I lose a lot of money just taking eggs from Gadst into Legalsty. It becomes worst when it is going to not I own the team life say nine ERSTI because probably five eggs I have to write off like fifty greate of eggs. Immediately from my mind that no, this fifty has to be crack. Why because of the bad roots. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I mean, if imagine if there was a rail from Quara to Legals that

will take your eggs by four am and be there by six am. Just imagine if we had that, that would be wonderful, right, and it's I just need to get it. Just get this. I will just go to the train station and just speak from the start. Dis you're putting up and down? Gotcha? Gotcha? I hear? I mean this is was're talking about. Okay, let let me get a VP wants in here? Come in now? Who is this? This is a true I've been standing by. I'll take you first of all, trying to address the contribute to

a to what the former boy was saying. No, for me, I believe since that for food for food, to bring down the cost of food is not by decision cost of hollege. It is not even by improving power. What we need is indostrialization. When an individual right can cultivate up to five hectors with machines without any easily as an individual, then product product, the cost of production, the cost the the famer will to produce more. That is the issue we should look at in those mechanized family. That is

the only way. If you like, because you're right now, I will only tell you something, and that's the truth I have. I have trucks, right, And what happens is if we if I have goods to take to the north, right, it will cost over our point five million to take goods from Legos to the north. But when you are bringing back food items, it will come at almost half the cost of taking it. From taking goods from Legos to the north. That is how the business is because

the food seller would will pay that more. So what the lord would do is the cost when the charge will charge for for for transportation right to go to a long distance. That's where you're doing to the note, we are charging you what did we take us to our food? So when that comes back without coming back with it's just like a bull us. Do you understand? So the truth is this transportation is not really a bitting relatively to how

it affects other in terms of food. Right. The only solution is when we start to get many years ago that fifteen is if I was watching a program and one guy said, that is a family South Africa that produces one million that kills one million bids. It is one million bits. This is like fifteen years ago. Imagine for my boy can do five or one hundred thousand beds. So are you saying are you saying it's not production? You're saying we should go more mechanize. Is that what he is saying? Yes,

yes, yes, what should go? Because where you can do more as an as one person, you can do more. Wh Where would he stoy though? Where would he stoy the beds? If he makes them does make no power when you produce? Well, let me ask the question. Right, I'm a more local person than you. At least you understand how it was everybod that Please? Do you think the cost of production in China is higher? Is lower than cost of production in the Yeah? How want

do we pay liberals? I don't think so, of course it is they don't you change in Naga? No? No, no, don't pay no bro, I can't even see that. Bro. What is the power tariff in China? I just checked and I saw that want to ask? Want you to ask? Hour is about seven seven dollars? It wasn't here, nass here No, but you get it? Do you get it? You don't? Well, don't use power, use generator, That's what I'm saying. So they pay generator. Come on, man, come on man,

they use Okay, let's do it now, let's do it together. So in a factory in China, it's paying seven dollars per one kilo wat hour. You are buying diesel at about six hundred per liter, So what's the what was the do it though? You are buying diesel to run generator? He's just paying nipper? So why he finishes his p switch off his nipper. You are paying running Dieseland, you're buying generator Capex. You're buying diesel

opex just to produce the same quantity. That's that's why it's expressive. What does that want? What do you? And you also endless than one dollar down? You you your your minimum wage? Everything is niger You also endless at the dollar when you sell. He's exporting? What are you doing? Supports? Are your ports as a as the Chinese spots? No? Okay, okay? The thing is this right because everybody says China is the idea, this nation right because cost of production is Look what I'm trying to say

is cost of production in Negenia is even much much lower than China. Then why are we important food? Why are we important things from China? In their costs are higher? Bro doesn't make any sense. Now we're important things from them because that things are cheaper, because textiles and cheaps. Is why I'm talking about indostaniation? Is this if I mean, let's use something I mean to look right, and I can't produce those two shirts to day from

that two ships? Are we pay for my house and all my expenses? Yeah? A good life is on that two shirts. Yeah, I mean imposialization, which increase which pop I'm able to produce one thousand? Do understand if you become cheaper, the cost of production becomes cheaper because of nostalizations. Able to produce so much because if you give, if you give, if he has good for our power and he does not have the ability to acquire machinery to produce more, he's still back to farm my boys, farmer boys

tractor, his combined harvester god burns. His other time was looking for spare path for his combined harvester. He couldn't get it in China. He can go and buy it and do his production. So the point that to make goods in China is way cheaper than Nigeria. That's why the import goods over here, textiles and can do not have collapsed to go have Chinese imports because Chinese exports are way cheaper even with paying CIF claim the goods, they are

way cheaper here. That's the point I'm making. Let me get armed in here, amad. You go ahead, sir, I met wire self business practice? Should I just can I just ask a question? I just have a question, Kindle oh sorry, it's that you so so so sorry Yeah go ahead, so yeah, people will go ahead, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just sorry. It's something they've not taking people back to.

You said something about Dangle refinery. Did I say that? I said that right, if if if Dangota refinery is working right, then you don't have to spend Should you get more petro chemicals being exported? You you export more by products of crude oil. That's what I said, not that definal the petroc The question was about petro chemicals. Got about the refinery itself. Okay, but what's your position on its helping challenge? It wouldn't really because he's

going to cost flow of dollars to the system. No, it has not. Varying Dangota refinery would reduce the import cost. Are you declaring they do more rage? But you are still going to pay for the crude oil in dollars, So it wouldn't have that dramatic effect. People are thinking, yeah, okay, okay, we just to add to the last end the last time and discussion of the last speaker. I don't think we can industryalize all the days we can power. Yeah, we can need that power. Yeah,

power security. At there are the two main things that we could should focus on our power and security. If you just focus on if farmers can go on farm and then they cannot make a nice farm and the cost of food goes down, cost of food goes down, food inficial falls. Food inficial falls, you have the MPR also falling. The interest rates fall.

That then attract investment, attractable put to them cause you are buy with then boost output to the factories and then boost jobs you So employment creates capital formation. That's how wealth is created. Right now, we're still at the very very beginning. We can farmers can't go to the farm, and we have no power, and we have no certainty of policy. We still don't have

ministers are today. What this is is thetted no ministers yet. Yeah, because there was something you said, so I think insecurity contributes to that. I don't know where you think. I don't think so. I mean remeters have been we had so much for remidances in the past. No remdances. Don't don't confuse remontanzs and and FDI. You have FPI. Those ones are the ones that are who are bringing I agree with you that if it's for FDI FPI. They read the news, so they don't invest in night.

But my money in Mecca will always get money from from a Meca in Houston. Whether there's vocal har arm, where there's ipub, she will always get her money from America in Houston. Cave it to that. I'm not continue short, but I will come into that straight away. Seem Maker will get money from a MACA. If a Meca comes back, there will be more

money. Does that makes sense? No? More money is money. So if Amica is gonna come back, AMCA is gonna send money to Mama and Meca America is gonna send LEXI plus mineos two point five percent of his income. If Amca is gonna come back, and Meca will think about what he's gonna do when it comes back. Yeah, boy, it doesn't want to come back, but doesn't come back. We're talking remy chances, right, So that's a it's gonna come has FDI or FPI. If it's gonna come

back to Nigeria, he's gonna bring long term equity CAPTA. That's an FDI or FPI. What amutances he sent from his bank account? True crypto true P to P or true, give it to America by hand. That's what I'm talking about right now, that a Mecca will always send money home BC will also always send money to de Alla the remittances. Okay, okay, cool, I agree with you. Yeah, thank you. You're very welcome, sir. Let's get liberty, liberty. All eyes on the judiciary.

What's up? Thank you, mister Callow. Thank you. I was just very drawn into the last discussion. I think you're the one exchange in which is the check. If I'm correct, you're talking about my maker sending makers sending money to my men maker. Okay, me and me. I'm a maker's sister right now. Okay, I am sending money, I think. So questions have you gone have just gone up or come to gone down? Since what's going on? Tell us your story? Can you hear me?

Yes? So it's like it's like, if you want to put it in that very simple simplistic description, the money I send now that the maker and I are sending, it's not doing much in terms of inflation in the country. So if you are saying that is in terms of remittances, that will kind of bring some semblance of some economic activity that will translate to across the board to things improving somehow. I'm not an economics maybe microeconomically across different small,

small term, you know, a titraading kind of action. I don't see how that's going to alleviate anything. Because someone who's talking about farmers going to the farm, currently there's insecurity in the country. So we are already in what this is August ending we're going to hit September very soon, and currently now Nigeria through a course you know, allegedly is trying to procure a war in Nigia. So currently now we know, we know fundamentally that security

is not priority. There's not going to be enough piece in that land now for ordinary farmers to go to farm to bring about a reduction in the cost of food. So I am a maker will not have to work doubly hard to be sending the list too. Dollar pound we're sending that has no value in terms of what my mimiker can do with it, even in the petty training she's doing back home. So basically, which is the way forward,

way in the future, it's so bleak right now. I think think what is the optimism because I see I actually want to share in that optimism so that when I talk to my memiker tomorrow, I can give us some hope. True, true, I think you where is the hope that you guys are talking about it now? Because if it's liberty terms of remittance, how fight they are going to go? Okay, liberty, let's let's let's let's talk about the overall effect. Without you, and I mean without the remittances

coming from Nigerian's abroad, the niger economy will stop working. Let's just put that on the table that it is the remittances valued about twenty five billion, and it's just what we can count twenty five billion annually. That it's even keeping in nira at nine hundred. If you take away remutances, then we're done for in Nigeria. That's number one. So it's a very very important part of our economy that we're getting remutances. The problem with the remittances that

it's social. So a mecca is anyone to my mecca. He's not anyone too from Meca to invest in a business or to invest in bonds. He's just sending one to keep her going because her Nira revenues from her pension are going nowhere. So first of all, it's a very important plank. Two weeks ago, we had a spaces about the DIASPRA and I was asking a dispro what is stopping you folks from invest in Nigeria and serious topic. Right.

People are saying policies, they don't feel confident the elections, the economy and all that. And the point I tried to bring out was that when you invest is when things are bad. That's what you can buy. If you bring one hundred thousand dollars today, you can buy more assets in Nigeria

than if you wait when the economy is booming. The nating economy today is has stopped working because we have introduced some policies without introducing at limits post that they we have removed the subsidy without giving in placed you know, the supper structure, so it has stopped working. So any investor coming today is a buias market. If you come in here, you can pick up assets on

the chip. That's really what it is today, right because if you believe that the economy Nigeria is going to do better in five or ten or fifteen years, then buy today. If you think they think the economy is not going to do well in five ten years time, then of course sell today. So it's your call. You've got to make that call. Sorry,

which assets now? Are you talking about? Any assets? If you go to this Nigerion stock market, the price to earnings and a just stock market today is less than six with means that if you are if you're buying the stock market, you are only paying six times the value. It can go to twenty. It can go more than the America's about, say twelve, but this is a cheap stock market. Same with land nobody has money. If you go in with cash to buy landed assets, you're also going to

buy at a depressed price. So in Nigeria there's there's no quote unquote money, So people are selling assets to survive. So if you are a capital rich I'm just state yeah, it's can help, but I just state explain that maybe try answering your questions when when it comes to why have you paying? Or are not interested? No? But hold on better? Are you okay? Did I answer that question? Are you suspect? I think you've

kind of it? It will help if you can point at some point because I'm sure there a lot of one are list then we're like, okay, stock market, where do we go? How do we start? Because I remember some years ago I tried going on It wasn't funny. I have to say, okay, you are in your idea, lost my money. I have no idea what you know? It was hard. It's difficult to give advice on Twitter. But let me get you in the UK. UK right

now it's paying five percent, which is very very good. So if you give the UK banks a dollar a pound, you might If you buy the UK bond may get five percent. It's very very good. But Nigerian bonds to offer about four five percent dollar terms on money market four five percent.

So if you had some money in the savings accounts in the UK and you're getting anything less than say three percent, Nigeria might be a good place for you to invest in dollar because you're going to invest in dollar and get a return out in dollar. There are million Nigerian banks that offer a dollar money market. FCMB is one of them. I think vests another one I bet

is on the one they offered dollar investment. So you're removing that exchange risk in Nigeria right If you also have the time and you have funds that you want to tie up in Nigeria, So tie it up and interesting in maybe making a return or liquidity. You might also consider just buying a property either land, and just face in it. It's not going to give you any liquidity, but it just ties your money in. It's sort of like if

you're just dumping it there. That's all I would suggest for a foreigner in quote that has come to Nigeria. Because you are doing your dollars, so no exchange risk, or you're doing property, You're just trying to lock in money that you have in excess like a retirement point, because the value would appreciate. You would get individends, but the value would appreciate and if you sell it US at ten years, it would have kept pace with nigerent inflation.

If you are doing stocks, that's a different matter entirely. You are trying to buy into an asset class that is conver very risky, that is basically at hostage to the dollar situation. Guinness Union level Nigerian breweries, most of the big most national niger are all reporting negative figures based on the dollar

evaluation. So it might not be a good place to buy now. But if you have a long term outlooking Nigeria, it's the best time to buy because you're buying them when they are selling at a loss, and if you simply hold them they might turn out good. Remember it's what is your objective. If you have a long term plan, there's the best time to buy. If you want to trade, there's not a good time to come to Nigeria. That's how I will put it right. Don't do what you don't

know. But if you have a long term plan, if you want to come to Nigeria and do commodities, ginger, soybeans, all those things are being sold abroad at a big profits. Julos Berger has opened up a big what's it called. What's this legum called? They're exporting out of Legos now, Julius Berger. That's what I getting their money is when they do business in nigerl It converted in Nira to dollars by exporting commodities from Nigeria. So

there are opportunities out there. But this situation Nagua, you're have an economy where there's no consumption, so you're only looking at assets that are not tied to consumption. You want to buy an asset that just pays you a dividend i e. Dollar or it's just going to hold your value anything that it's tied to consumption. I wouldn't recommend that you do it right now in Nigeria. Libert Does that help? Yes, I kind of. I've sent you

some DM can so reply me back. I'll probably take it off off here and explore more. We thank you, I got you, okay, so let's get amade imade. How are you doing, sir? I made you suf carlu I'm still here. Oh my, I do if we're go sorry, so your next go ahead. I just fumed with the queue. If you don't, I'm sorry, pretty good. Sorry I jumped to you.

Sorry Twitter, Twitter rearrangings. I do apologize. No, the Twitter and they are arranger, so make us the full I asidy show for here, and I started to about you when I think when I add you as a speaker, Twitter takes you right up to the top. So sometimes I see you and it goes back. I apologize my fault. I will do it better now. But please if I drop you, yeah, if I drop it, just because I want to make orders to speak right. If I

drop so, I apologize to everyone. I do apologize if work please go ahead, I'll get head like bother and I'll get Michael best if I could go ahead, please it's okay, good day. Can thank you for holding the space. I'm not too sure if you're checking the comments that are being dropped, but there was a question the obviously of my eye based on something

you initially said, and that was obviously to do with Emirates. So I'll just read out the question, should we expect to see more airlines like Emirates leaving Nigeria soon? And if you can just expanciate on that, thank you. Passional Airlines, thank you what situation is with them? Thanks? Yeah, I think I said my canary in the mind for Nigeria is Emirates, and I said, if you see Emirates come back to Nigeria, that helps with that. Whatever policy the CBN and Tinobu are doing, it's working.

That's I said. I think threes basic ago Emirates airlines left because they are selling in Nigeria in Nira Then they go to the CBN to get dollars and they cannot get dollars from the Central Bank of Nigeria, so they pull just pulled out all the airlines are here because they now increased. The Nira prize was still no dollars, right, So if you look at Nigeria to London and Ghana to London, the Ghanaian prize is the way cheaper than flying from

Nigeria. This is because in Ghana they have no issues with getting dollars from their central bank, even though the Ghana is broke, but in Nigeria they have an issue. So they're adding that cost of waiting for dollars to your ticket price in Nigeria. That's what's going on, right, So if Emirates comes back, that means that the dollars supply in Niger has eased and that EMI rates. It was your school to the iron E window. I get that dolls black. So whatever they say, if there's no EMY rates,

the policy is not working. That's a simple way of putting it. Did you ever follow up, Yeah, no, no, no no no. I guess we'll just stay watching and keep on paying these expensive tickets forking or fly to Ghana and then fly to Ghana to London. It's not really, it's not it's not really. I have done the comparison. Color of reasons. It's really not that different to be honest, when you now tack on

the ticket from Ghana to Nigeria as well. You know, it's when when we kind of work out the entire total figure, it's really really not that different, to be honest, And you're better just spending the ticket just flying

as an indirect or direct to legous itself. So I don't know. I know friend told me if you use a foreign credit card and you book the air the tickets abroad, you do get a better price because now the airline knows they're gonna get paid not from the central bank but from the credit card company. So you might want to look at that as well. So if you have a friend that leaves abroad, just say hey, could you book this ticket. The problem is this, when you do that, the airlines

sometimes want to see that card that you used to buy the ticket. So keep in mind that's going to be a big problem that if you book a line unless you can get the guy to send you the picture of the credit card and say this is my daughter or whatever and I book the airline for her. But that's the problem. So I'm trying to see. I go to the shop and I saw this Visa card, this prepaid visa card.

Does anyone know if those cards work in Nigeria? Like you can just buy them in the shops in America. They are Visa but they are prepaid and you load them. I don't know if those cards would work in Nigeria. If you don't, I don't think so because of the I know some of them used to work for something in Nigeria because they were using some of those cards to kind of pay like subscriptions and stuff. But I think there's I don't know, some rule or some lawder because of now they all need like

addresses, right, But how would they if I buy it? So if if I buy it and I use my friends address, how would they know it's I'm paying from Nigeria? Like if I yeah, if I buy that card and I have a friend in American and I use this address and I pay for stuff in Nigeria, they wouldn't know, would they. I'm gonna test it. Let me, I'm gonna get a test by buy a card. Who wants us to do? Guinea Pig will buy a card. If you're gonna pay maybe something, send me maybe something like twenty dollars. Don't

send me expensive, So send me something. I'll test it out. I'll buy the card here and I'll try to pay something for you. I'll use an address something like that. Then we'll see if it will go through. If it's gonna go through, woo interesting, all right, so I've got i'd go too, test la. See the questions lads are asking you see her Liza are asking their questions to see very you know, very calm, very very correct questions. You those ladies are just the best, go ahead

please. Is on behind the scenes. So he's the people who will work for a maker to send the money. So he he does a lot of technology from the world. We need the every change the pie to piece, right. Yeah, and the volume has never been this high. Wow, it's one of it's one of the highest they've seen in a long time. Right, So if you notice, if you're if you look, if you've seen all this world remits advert on Facebook right now on Instagram. They're pushed

it because they are competing heavily. So we've never seen this kind of volume. And now a bunch of other guys that are working with the Kulda Bank and another bank, ake another, another building another are to compete even the Canadian governmentism it's going to fund that. So they've never seen this kind of volume in the longest time. So I don't know what the Central bank, he's saying. I don't know what they're doing. I don't know how they're

losing out of this market. But the volume has not been so this. This this floating has caused a lot of volume, a lot of traffic. So so you're seeing that the floats are being positive because people are sending more money back to Nigeria because the floats. I was just saying, yes, they haven't seen it this high. Like it's people are sending money. It's just that it's not hitting the CBN bags accounts, so that balance heat or

their FPNA. I don't know how they're missing that. Maybe they need to start contacting this it boys, this P to P guys are start doing a bagain with them and buying their own dollar from them. Because so what they're doing now is I don't even know our fuel change. So what our feel change is offering right now is paced school fees for people. I find I find the rate very is very abusive, but it's what it is. People

as to get in the rate. So for example, the buy dollar for me sending money to my mind maker for seven hundred, right, and I will sell it to for me who wants to pay school fees a university of a better for seven seventy nine. Like it's so abusive, But then the money hits the school accounts really fast. Everything is done neatly. There's receipts and boots my mind maker and for me that booth happy. And I haven't seen this much. Yeah, because I use I use an app, I

use Koshi, I se money through them. I have many problems with it. It goes to my Nigerian bank and an American one is an American. Yeah. Everywhere you can select if you want America or Canada, or you can select then you put an email for saying America or an email for Canada. Then you can there is a big Another is more very restricting this films than America than America. America than America. It's more. It's more among the phones were so it's more restrictive here, right, so that the audited

to well, the audited a lot. So you can so for example, I can't do I can't do you s D. I can't see it to nia, Oh, I can't you know this transfer? Is it wise or something like that? Yeah? But yeah, And the other thing I wanted to say, so this CBN financial statement, who auditated it? Who are the auditor? You won't have she's I have it right here, let me look. But it was audited by I think she's. I don't call the wrong thing. I'm looking at it right now. But it was ay was

your question? Are you you don't like the No, it wasn't. I I read it. I don't know why. If it was a KPMG PwC the audited it, I will have more confidence. So I'm looking confidence. I'm looking like now. Yeah, So if you can tell me the auditor's name, because I was trying to find it in the notes, I find it right Report of the Directors deming of audits. This is a governor's signed

is Ernest young y and KPMG. Okay, I couldn't find that. And the other the other last point I wanted to put out there is this, I'm from the ninetel the Altar, right, it's my region. Who we are seeing a lot of better effects, We're seeing a lot of miscarriages, We're seeing a lot of cancer. So when you say this thing is like blow up the sheep and let it all sink, like when about a year that my heart sinks. Right, it's my village that this isn't happening.

We don't fish anymore. So let me tell you who he's doing this bumping it is that what is his name from Polo is the one and the rest that that one's control in that area. So I hear it's my hometown. It's just what's seen the effect of this blowing up. They keep doing and just and gas flaring and don't doing the things. It's halting us badly. This amount of cancer DeLine delta and it's going to increase because when I hear this, I feel I feel like I said, no, one's really listening

to us. They don't see us as a money bag as as a as a region that they will feel the nation. And I don't care if you will die right and you're not, I mean, your your sentiments don't have merit. There are videos in Portacle today where people will cracked the table and they suit on the on the table, they suit in the air that it was happening before the army stare to blow up ships and planes. So the problem that another delta. Are sorry to say, this is a wild,

wild delta. Right. Things are happening that I can happen in any part of the world. They are refining, you know, the way they refined or the order they just seem to burn. It's like a look at refine, just burn it into the air. So when it rains, it's running down the hydrocarbon. All that stock is just running down on people. In twenty years time, the amount of issues are going to come from that that I would be unbelievable. I can tell you now. My parents don't go

to the village anymore. Okay, I have to go my son into Okay, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. And it's always goodly get from me. No want to say to your son for us. I appreciate you talking here. Thank you so much. Or I guess some too. I mean again, just to clarify, guys, I know it's a bit it's harsh, like she said, She's completely correct. She's harsh to say, blow up the ships kind of oil. It pollutes the environment.

I get it. It's harsh. But my story is this. You know, normally what would you do to bunkering ships, you would arrest them. Then you will prosecute the crew members, prosecute the owner. We've done that before. We arrested them well to them, not to know, to legos even and the ship disappeared and it gets If you go on Twitter, you'll see a thin channels was had a ship. That ship was arrested before. It's back in our delta, new name, new crew, still slim crew

oil. So I'm just being radical here. You know, if there's any other way you can get these ships out on the Delta without sinking, then maybe you want to pump the oil out, but are pumping oil out takes time. They will just bribe and it's all gone. You know, there's one of those sayings, sink them there, you know, Costy, you know it's it's it's tough to say this, but what was the solution Because

we've tried the arrest and seizure. It hasn't worked, right, So I'm sorry, but I don't see another way to stop this thing down to just say, you know, and go gangster on it and then hope that it would be a deterrent, deterrent on illegal activities. Some too what's your go ahead? So okay, Brittains and calor, Yeah right, what's up man? Okay? So I have two questions for you. Basically, my first

question this, I don't know. Maybe you thought the news release from Nigerian bubises last week and you're asking the CBN to ban binance and order and cryptwo P. Two p Who I don't know. Would you say, what is your own view on the impact of crypto p. Two p on on the denial to change rates? That's my first question. And then my second question would be, I don't know what would if the federal result in the United

States, if they were to begin to look who interests treats. In your own view, do you think it's going to have an impact on den strengthen against the dollar if that's were to happen. Yeah, good questions. Number one, the pit tree market are just buying at a willing buyer willing sell us seller price. That's all they're doing. It's just a different way for the folks that want naira or want dollars to exchange. They're not interfering with

whatever the government is doing. They're just I want to sell dollar, you want to buy naira. We exchange at the price. How do we get that price? We bid, but the first bid and then we get to the to the So to say you should ban them so people who come to you is incredibly si l l y. It's just a stupid way of actually signed to solve a problem, doesn't It doesn't solve anything. It solves nothing. It's a very silly reason to say P to P is affecting Naira.

So if you bann them, it's the same way the CBN try to ban abookie effects for publishing, just publishing the exchange rates the same seiling. I tried to cut trees to fight Naira. You know, it doesn't make a disapple that. I just I don't know how. I don't want to go on Twitter, so that's not use bad words, you know, but it doesn't make any sense to do that. It's a silly excuse or silly reason.

Leave them alone. If you want to compete against them, then compete against them by reducing your costs or by making your market more transparent or more open. You can't ban forty four items from your market, then acts are going to go and burn their own market. You can't even burn their market. Their market is online when you shut down the internet to ban them,

So that's it's a non starter there. If the Federal Reserve reduces interest rates, it would have a positive effect on the naira because right now, if you hold naira in the United States, you can get as much as four percent ap y as interest rate on your dollar investment. That means that less folks are coming to Nigeria. There's no incentive to take the risk in Nigeria because I can get four percent on an Apple phone. If I'm on an Apple phone, I can get four percent on my phone, So why should

I take more risk and come to Nira to Nigeria? And the past dollar was about one percent zero point five percent and Nina was eight percent, so you can still a huge gap. So I'm incentive vice to come to Nigeria to enjoy that huge premium. But right then the film has shrunk. So why should I take the risk? On my phone? On Apple I get four percent? Why should I then go to Nigeria. I do exchange,

do all this wils to get me the six four eight percent. So the OtherSide is yes, it rates if you fed resis the rates not just a Nia, but emergine markets across the world to benefit. When the FED resus the rating, the rate is still high. It does make the emergine markets, you know, they suffer because they are competing with the US dollar, which they can't do. Oh god, prof incredible, Well go ahead, So hey, prof, you've got the floor. Prof. Prof. Going

once, prov going twice. I've got property, property within property with on the score property you got the flosser. Go ahead. Yeah, we're living in the house leaving our value. I'm audible enough. Yeah, I got you. Yeah. I came to your submission about locking your money back home in injurial and property because I think that's my field and the industry has weakness, a lot of challenges. Ever since this administration, Kimmy, there are

a lot of lots of confidence in injuriance. Being the emulti dimensional ethnic groups, the kind of our reports we got from the after might of the election, middle of people lost interest, a lot of people lost interest in the pantom Lgeria. We all believe that are in terms of these property things. It is being done on the island. It is safe and it is wise not to invest your money on the island. But ever since this administration came

in, your policies are bad. We don't see anyone to be working for now. For now, let me ask you a question. Your sell property in what state? I major in legals. We are practicing our bulger and we are in legals. Okay, so you are saying that, don't look ever since ever since this administration, can me in legos for January and our April? Hello, it's in legals or legals and a budger or just in legals were legals and a buga? Basically what about Joss or a bell cutter?

No, no, no, I actually have not been. I have not been to Joss. I do properties with estates and we got our tight to before we sell. So getting properties tight to in legos and in a budger goes two states. The demands is I the value go doples. So that is why I had to like concentrate on those two states. So the property has no more about Okay, I'm just asking questions, but I don't understand. So the Nigel, So the sales of property in legals and a

budger has gone down. This is like ten twenty fifty. What would you say just rough, mister Carlow. Now from your name, you you're from the east. Are you from Abia? To be precise, So if you're in legals during the election, if you know the traits, I'm from Coogi States. If you know you tread other people, other tribes from the so

called them sell lot more from the APC dogs from some of these. A lot of it happens in twenty twenty nineteen as well, when the Job of Legals was threatening to push on Able into the intervenution in they don't vote APCY. You know, it was more this time around, very very more to

a lot of ebos are losing interests in developing legals. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not an evil guy, but I believe people from south south Southeast they have a lot of percentage in terms of property development in legals. They hold some some value percentage. So the interest is declining. You understand what I mean by that? I got you so I remember now, I remember last year I got to property from for two guys t exaust I go one at a boat, at a Janway, one at Chevron, one at

a jazz. One is planning to sell them property. Bro god the property at fifty six the selling place that he's one twenty and it's confused. He doesn't want to sell anymore. But which one is reading abroad ways yeging about Egeria, you can see these property is less than my modes because everybody abroad just dream of coming to coming home, coming to Legos. They are place of visit or their place of whatever should be lacking should be the corridor.

And with the kind of investments on dark corridor, that's it peg corridor to it will three or it will boost the sails and it will boost a lot of into a value in dark corridor. So this my friend is confused both currently in arms of the rates as a friend that works from the bank, this guy does mean in value most especially remittances from the United States in law he's holding this country. That was why this never for the policy, but

that just got ended when in AVOCAM. Why would governments, why would CBN de bands giving you never for collecting dollar to its encourages a lot of people to send money back home for ten for two thousand dollars additional ten thousand ear now most of their policy now they're trying to review it at a point. They wanted to stop a lot of people from having in the missillary accounts because I believe a lot of people have been to missilary account they have it is

better. The best business now is to save your the line in Injuria. If you save your the line Injuria over time, go appreciate it. Let me ask you a question, like every converting the let me ask you a question. There was a lady that was here talking about invest in Nigeria. So if you were speaking to that lady and she wanted to buy property, like where would you advice? Would you advice as and let me give you I mean, let's speak clear. She's from the southeast and all that.

Would you advisor to buy in Legos or a pu Jab? Where would you advisor to buy? Is it a good time for her to buy? What's your take? Sell? I listened to what you said. The time everybody's selling that you at the depressed price because a lot of people are a lot in fact, most of the company myself for there's always gon price for it. They do the price of this after three three months because they developed your

estates, they developed the property for you to buy. I got three months ago you are buying now we now if you're going to pay for the same price, but now most developing company are hosting their price increase for now. If I'm to advert are interest, you should go to even you That corridor needs a lot of a lot of our diff facts. You know, legals in cootes and engineer in general. Government is not interested in solving our symficits. I believe you believe that God have just said. That is why this

private company, our partners, individuals are coming together. That is why you see somebody by a land trying to erect if you a room, all because of what wants to be a language. So government is not interested in solving it for us. And as as a speaks, that corridor, that corridor, the FIE trade zone, the proposed airports by them, don't go to the refinery, the spports, the corridor in quotes is having less less apartment for people to see. So and to advice Nagera's not going to see sit

now. I don't see it for me, but we are all open for you get policy and okay, yeah, I think it's good information. You give it look like something it's you know, let me debut a bit. I wasn't a group. I was in a WhatsApp group chat, and that Whatsap group chat has got you know, lawyers, bankers, all that kind of stuff. And I was, these guys are hopeful are leave abroad,

and they were saying. The guys were saying there that they're not going to invest in a part of Nigeri again, that they are done, they're not going to invest again. And I was, I was, I was shocked, you know, like I this is what people say, but these guys were saying it, and they were seeing it with conviction that we're done, We're done, we're not gonna we won't invest there and all that. So you are saying it again and I know a lot that evidence. So I

don't know it's it's it's definitely something that will be your contemplation. So but it's clearly a factor if people are not buying property and developing property. I don't know what to say, man, I don't not say, uh, thank you so much. Used to ab too, lie here, you've got the floor. They used to got to flogging once you used to go ahead, thank you kind as you I can hear you. Okay, I'm gonna playing everyonelings the kind so just like I'm talking about like this cpend and the

kind of the never to issue. I think the main problem we have with that, it's just the supply and demand. From my own opinion, it's just the supply. They they demand this mother and the supply and anywhere any business or any kind of tend that demand is greater than the supply. Of course there will be a black market, and uh there will be like other markets and which we dictate the price of wherever it is with our currency. For example, we can take cocaine for example. The reasoning cocaine is as

expensive is because, uh, the supply is very little. For example, if a formasctical company starts producing cocaine in mass quantity, the price is going to drop cost to supply. It's going to like start getting a greater than the demands. So I think wherever the sibin wants to do enough I mean cost they can defend in the era forever we don't have they like we don't print the last week, I don't think we can defend the dollar. So either way, the the this demand or this is be greater than supply.

So my my point is just like production, We just like I have to like produce and the only way to do that, and i'ved people talking about like production in gersalization and stop. I think one one thing we need, I mean threatings from my own point is electricity has power, then security and efficiency. We just have to like make sure like all the processing, all

the processes are very very efficient and power. For example, I write kind of I think an article that we are trillions of dead assetting in in the real estate in a real like thrillions. I just like dead data set. So my point to die is why don't we channel like those kind of those investments into power and renewable for example, is very cheap for ample, so like cheap and it is easiest to kind of service not like this stupid.

It's easy to set up and it's very very fast. And I think the for our government has kind of done good with the kind of Lord the first

regarding state. And I think private complaints can generate power. Yeah, I mean yeah, use, I mean it's just that, you know, is it lack of I don't know the world right, we've taken an eye of the ball before a Bassenger came Niger had not built any power plants, and I think twenty years or Passenger came built ten brand new power plants, ten brand new power plants in Nigeria, Gas Powered, Garry, Google, all those, all those guys. Then we had there Ado he literally stayed for

long. We had good Lord Journal and he stayed for five years, and we had Bohar raisted for eight years. But why did the Semens deal. I read in the paper the other the Semens guys are saying it's going to that are going to compete the project in twenty thirty. You know, I remember after the Lebanese look Civil War, howd they God is the abb and someone else will do power in Lebanon and it was in record pace and they God is power done. You know. I think of Aba and Prano and

from that part of the country. Aba has got Geometric, private sector power company. They're still not operating issues with a new goods a distribution Geometric. You know, Nigela, there's this lack of urgency to develop because the guys that mixitations have generators. So it's this lack of urgency to get development done. It's not just power telecommunications all of the times. It's not for the poor roads. They can fly private jet. So once they settle themselves.

You know, schools are bad, they go abroad. Hotels are bad, they go abroad. Once they settle themselves, they don't care anymore. So maybe if you burn generators in Nigeria, just burn it. You know people won't take it anymore. People can stay weak in nigerla generators. When they put pressure on the governors, on the president, power be fixed to be fixed in no time. But this generator issue, no, I have generator, so I don't care about power. If the governor, the president we

are connected to PhTM PSC will be working without question. If their kids went to schools in Nigeria, schools Nigeria of the world class without question. It's just do have come to the gangster level in Nigeria now that sometimes you really have got to put people's skin the game. If you don't have skinned the game, not even get not even work in the country. If people don't have skin in this game, not it will work. What is hard in power? You know this powerty what is hard in an engineer? But what

is hard in power in getting homes electrified? India has electrified everybody, you know, everyone is electrified. U create with what U crain on TV. They're fighting the war. They've got power in keep or whatever they call it. Right, So what is hard in this power? You know that, you know, so you know you're right it. Renewables are there. We have masses of empty land in the north. You can put solar panels out there and have solar, but we don't do it. Everybody looking at gas

power from the south. You take gas powered power plant and then you run the traditional lines all the way to the north. I don't know, man, so used to good car out But till we have folks will skin the game. Not gonna change. Maybe if you if you see it, if you just see generator, cut it off. Let everybody be in darkness. They will fix power in one year. They will fix it one year. But it's not as people are getting generators. So people can go abroad for

schooling or get fly abroad to get medical check up. Then your schools, your help, your power will never work. So elects leaders that got a skin in the game. That's what I will say. Hey, will Fred, what's up? Man? Hey? What what why did guys? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're good. Okay, cool, I just wanted to add some questions and man economists or neither my nice possible. I just want to have some couple as some couple of questions.

One, I understand that you know, ffect market is more of a supply and demand and you know, prio prior to twenty fifteen elections, this is when we started experiencing this, you know, high difference between the official price and you know black market price. You know, there were sort of people were like buying the lass to keep it back accounts for people to sell it maybe after two weeks or three weeks and one month or two months, you

know, to make profit of it. So it becomes transactional. It becomes like buying and selling you know stuff. So I want to ask, is there any can government make it policy okay to discourage data attitude and why is it necessary? Because I think in Nigeria and is Nigeria is one of the countries that has the highest number of individual missillary accounts. Virtually everybody have the

mistellar accounts in Nangeria. You go to the forest market hoping that more which always you know, catches in that they are going the by dollars saveth in the mistellary account. Tomorrow they will pick it top, go seed it and make you know, Homongol's profit. Is there anything that can be done to, you know, dissuade the citizens from doing that, either by policy or any other means. Yeah, The question is what's wrong with having Tell me

what's no Wilfred? Tell me what's wrong with a dollar account? What's wrong? Yeah? What I feel? There's nothing wrong in having the missillar account, especially for business owners if you have like an important for example, who does you know, businesses and foreign currencies. I don't see anything wrong in that. But individuals who do not somebody who does not have a group of maybe traveling outside the country for the nearest future, you know, buying dollars

to talking and is punished by Yeah, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? Yeah? I see that as encouraging when there is any you know, if there is rush increases the demands. Yeah, but what's wrong with that? That's what I'm saying, an artificial scarcity. Yeah, but what's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? What's wrong with it? What's wrong with that? Let's let's let's change let's change dollar to rice. During Christmas. During Christmas, people hot rice, buy rice, increase the

matter. They don't eat all the rise they buy the buy bag of rice. There's anything wrong with that? Yeah, there's nothing wrong in it. But let's compare a general to other countries. I was in South Africa, so maybe years ago, and I went to change my I had some dollars with a couple of dollars with me and I went around and see check to see if I can actually change to get you a rounds. But no one was willing to buy because there was no This is not like everybody knows that.

Okay, you go to DIC, I can always buy at the normal rate. You understand that it is a prevailing at that I mean at the point in time. But because of that attitude, because of the attitude, you know, you go, you know, you buy, you go and say it in you is it transactional. So when something becomes transactional profit and you know, I think it creates panic in this side. In this side. Yeah, but I mean I hear you and when asking you are describing

what is happening? Boy, I only say what is a problem. You know Nigel has burned not doing the fellast time you know fella that is laid. The dollar was banned since his time he was arrested beating up jails because he had dollars with him until today where this is twenty twenty three words, he's talking about dollar holding Burnett. No, well, I'm not I'm not encouraging. I'm not saying van band dollars better should be the policy of the

et Cetera Bank of Jespia. Policy that discourages people who do not need that need. Why and I'm asking you why why gold, the gold float, the effects market or the black market. You know he's encourages Yeah, but why what? What? Why? Why are you? People want dollars because the alternative is not working for them. So if you want to not to get dollars, make the alternative work for them. You said, Now you went to South Africa, no one wants to take your dollars because the rand

works for them. Yeah. So okay, So that's the first person. The second question is do you do you see relationship between printing of this twent one trillion narrata was preated by CBN and corrosion, the illgal printing of currencies, the corrosion, indeed, the perversive corroction in this society or in the government. You know, because at the end of the day, this government

officials the print the same money, there's still the same money. They also take the same money to go back into the effects market to scramble to get the dollars. Is the relationship, you know, that that contributes. That also contributes to the issue we are having with effects in Angia. And I mean it's a simple answer. Now, the answer is yes, because you know, when they wrote the CBN Act, before the CPI and Goddess Independence,

the CBN was an atm of the Ary government. So we had under the former presence a bachelor the hell of sea bachel you can just go to the CBN and take our dollars and they'll says for security, you know. So when we came out of that, When we came out of that, what we try to do was to have a central bank that was independent, to have monetary policy independent from even their executive So the laws to the CYBN today makes them independent. They can spend the foreign reserves as they will,

to defend the nira as they will. They don't need to go to the house, they don't need to go to the Senate, they answer to nobody. It's on purpose to give them the independence. Then we didn't put checks on them. And we say the Cyban governor cannot even have a vocation, so you can't even join Nigerian Chess society because we want to totally separate the governor from their economy so that when he's taking the decision, he's taking it

without fear or favor. So the executive and it's not just Nigeria, envery way in the world. Look at how Trump fought with the Federal Reserved chairman. Look at how even this current president Joe Bideness, he invited the Fat Chairman and he was announcing that they want to do policies because he's saying indirectly, I want to spend. This guy doesn't want to spend. It's not Leaden Johnson pointed his thought, it is fat Chairman. The executive wants to

spend. That's their job. Their job is to spend on project. That's their job. We don't blame them for it. But the Fair Reserves job is to stop monetary expansion by increasing interest rates. So you have a situation where you put a guy protected him by laws and you said we would trust this guy to take the ratation. Then the Center Bank governor then goes hand

in hand with a political party and they expand spending. They spend what a mayfairly printed, three two trillion is more than the total foreign reserves of Nigeria. So what he printed, look at think about this. The guy printed in eight years an amount in excess of the foreign reserves in Nigeria is still the government was borrowing. Still, the government was borrowing both locally and internationally.

So what exactly was the money being used for? But your question, all that money contributed to inflation, a contrary to the buying of dollars. And then the same CYBN then raised monte policy rate to soak up the same money that it printed. So he then killed Essamis. So CBN printed, CBIA raised the rates. Cybian made Essamis die. We then made local local production very expensive, then made look at important goods very cheap. So if

you connect the dots, you just wonder what else can I do? The laws are there, they weren't followed, and Melfi lest today's he's been arrested for holding a day in gone, not for printing money in except of this of the Cibian Act, not for breaching the act of printing more than five percent of the moneys for the federal government. He had the power, he had the laws protecting him. Why did he print for bou Harry? Why did he print? I don't blame bou Harry. I don't. Bou Harry

is the executive. He wants to spend. If the Central Bank goner prints for me, I would take it and spend. If I become president today and I have a Central Bank gond that will print me money, oh my god, I would love him too. So you know, all people are Decipien and the Board of Recipient, they have to answer questions. It's not just don't take a methyl out the bord of Central Bank, the death Monument office, the National Assembly that sat down and allowed for eight years twenty three

trillion to be printed without objection. That now we have to pass a lord or whatever to put that money back into the debt. Come on, man, So we have to I think more questions need to be asked with friend are correctly I said when directly yes, if you print money, he was illegal printing and it does contribute to inflation under the fall. Now that's to answer your question directly. Yeah. And the final one no, no, no, you said to so we have a lot to go. We have

a lot to go. Yeah, thank you so much. Great questions architect, whoche rochus. How are you doing, sir? Good even in car and good in over one? How are you sir to big? Interesting? Though I am not an economist, but I want to contribute a little and ask a little question as we proceed, like I want to bring our attention to the corruption in our system, which is the bone of contention of why

we are having these issues and our effects. Truly, we are a nation that rely more on imports, and this ten give us more like a gift dollar, neither a pressure against the dollar, because we import virtually everything we use. I've happened to be in some markets where I see where these dollars have been translate that I have friends who was in BDC when it was exchange.

Then let's look at this corruption aspect of like the time of fam when he was young governor, when they were distant the color from Q. I noticed that a lot of people, you see people, they will open like more than a ten or twenty different companies or the ventures. What are they using it for? They are using it for from que they are not important anything, but they were they were using it as a kind of transaction the needs of life ligood where they would get this dollar from the cban rates and

sell to the black markets people. Okay, today you go to the bank you want to source dollar, you will see that the bank would rather sell to people in the markets than you who come to use this dollar official. So you see this corruption in the system are also eating us deep. And today who don't see it as a corruption means again it's a it's a business.

So I think this is what the government should look into to cop this racketed and dollars because many people who goes to the bank to get this dollar from the bank, who want to use it legitimately will not get it. Rather, bank will take this same money and give to people in the street to sell to you at their own rate. Meanwhile, maybe I don't know what the gods eat and whatever window bank will get this money from the sping

at a good friend. Instead of giving to people like us that will need it for something, they will sell to people who intern say back to us. So what is government doing or what is it being do it to cop this crime that is going on. That's my number one whist after the answer, baby, if I have more time, it's going to be one question for you. I think that's why they did the float, and all the float is done to say everybody has the same level. If you want to

import pure water with dollars, go and import pure water with dollars. If you want to import machinery, that makes sense, go and important. The mistake that they've done is they've allowed the Irony window to retain the forty four items blocklist. Once they do that, it's not only in market. You can't have a market and say you can. This market is for everybody. You can't sell to Marto vegetables and meet in this market. If it's a market, then everyone should come in to buy and sell. If they do

that, that would then compete directly with the P to P market. Then I just can then say, Okay, I like the customer selves in this market and I'm gonna go here, So take away that forty four market band list. Allow the market they want to trade based on your level. If I just want to drink and potter water, fine, pay for it. If you want to drink you were important as not jersey wear it. If you can't, don't buy foreign good. So there'll be two markets, foreign

and local. If you want important conflicts buy, If you want natural conflicts, you buy. End of story. That's really where where we should go to cold answers the question, sir, yeah, thank you very much. Then the final question. For instance, now I want to open LC for the importation of a missionary or something of that nature. Does it permit me to buy my dollar and find my dollar account? Or am I getting this dollar from the bank with my NA Because this is getting me confused. The

way it's supposed to work is that you simply feel the same process. There's no change in what you feel. You feel your same from M and all that. The difference is that the bank is not going to the central bank to get your dollars. The bank will then go to the irony window, make a bid compareing to and then we'll say I want to buy dollars at maybe nine hundred. If it gets a seller, it matches, and you get your dollars. That's the only difference who they are funding that dollar from.

So if I'm an next sporter, I sell to the Anney window. If I'm an importer or an investor, I buy from the Aurney window. That's the only difference. Everything remains the same, just who buys and who sells. So yeah, that's that's should have been doing difference. Yep, makes sense. All right? Super, let me get who who your sir? Who YOURSA? Don't get a writer? Who yoursa? And guys, well, go to window. I'm gonna stop this at the end of the

hour. Got about ten minutes more, so let's just get quick comments in the will wound up. Got about ten minutes to go, guys. Let you guys go and enjoy your Sunday. You guys are got work tomorrow. I get that, Hyso go ahead. I think you can get me right. Yeah, awesome, Thank you so much. I've been learning a lot from your space. I just have like is it I have the question so

like a friend question. So I'm based in the US. Yeah, and I'm also in the in the group with that dormally send money back home to Ninjera. And also I knew that Najera offers like higher interest rates in terms of like one market phones. I'm not going to stuff compared to the US

that has just about four percent. I would like to ask what would you, you know, a general advice in terms of how what would all the best way to invest in Ninjera because I mean, you know, there are a lot of things to do, but this money that we're sending, you know, to Ninjura as like you know, helping from the members and all that. If it's invested, we could use the proceeds to help them. Wedding investments are running, So what would be the best way? I don't

want market phones are good? You the advisor? Are you saying what you should invest in if you're coming from abroad? Is that what you're asking? Yes? I get told the lady right so there for me, if you invest in in Nigerian sector, now that is dependent on demand because consiment demanding Niger has fallen. What I told her was that money markets are really the best to it because it's easy in and out. You are also invested in dollar, so I like dollar money market. I like that because you remove

the exchange risk from Nigerian and visual mentioned the banks FCNB doesn't. I've been teasy even if you invest have money market fun so target this one. I said, if you want to do a longer term, if you look at the longer term investment, that would not pay you an individends. In my consider that buying real estate because you are buying at a depressed market. What the guy realists told us to do. That lots of Nigers are no longer

buying in a certain parts of the country because of fears. If you follow on on boff and it says buy when everyone is afraid, so when everyone's happy. If you buy today, might be buying as a depressed rate might be good for you. So that's where where I will stop, because any other thing would involve you being in Nigeria. If you want to buy equities, same thing. It's a long term play. You're hoping that in five ten years the country going to be turning around. So we are buying at

a lower valuation today. That's how I will put it. Apart from that, I would be, I would be there, I would be I would

be cautious. Yeah, just one, just one people off place, like I say, as a door residents, not like a citizen, like a door then as they're living in the US, and also as an India tide well, what do you think like investing in the US, I mean living aside the interestingly, sorry not interting currency comparison stuff like which country do you think has the highest level of like dividend return on the investment the US on

AA That's an interesting question. I always assumed its Nigeria. I always assumed to was Nigeria because I said Nagia was developing. So if you invest in

nine in Nigeria, it gives you a higher return than America. But what has happened is that if you compare America, if you compare all over the world, take all the assets as is everywhere in the world by eighty year, by exteen trader funds, So you take Japanese property, you take maybe UK stalks, all the ass a classes of the world over ten years, which one has given you the highest return, not dividends, just return in the entire world? Is US equities? Then who was the second one?

Is US properties? So US reads number two, US properties number one. That's the whole world. That was Nigeria. Imagine markets as you would do better, not that much because of the risk. Right, So in Nigeria, what's you point that you have specific companies that do very very well. But the market in general has got a lot of Nigeria and factor risk. For instance, Nigeria in twenty twenty was the best performing stock markets in the

entire world. Entire world, but that was because of dangle to cement. Dangle to cement, right. But America, they marketed, it's on its itself gives you lots of opportunities for growth. America's a growing market, right, and it's also a mature market. Large liquidity saved the Godier rules. So I would say diversify always. But if you live in America and you have the advantage to then invest in America. I would always base on your age. I would always put a lot of things there. Then do your

Nigeria. I mean, take advantage of the part that you live. There's a large market. If you buy equities there, there are more opportunities there than Nigeria. That's how I'll put it. When Nigeria breaks free, the appreciation will be faster than America. But this spread breath and liquidity of America gives you a big advantage of Americans alone can not captured. Does that makes sense? Yeah? Thanks? Hello, great, Because when the last two

guys and we're just shut down. Let's get get most of her and eken and what it's called today for today. I'm so so sorry, guys, Liberty, did you have a comment again, I have a question, but let the other guys who live in their hands have been got you most of her something different? You got you, most of the got the floor, most of our got the floor going once, most of our going once,

Eka going Eka, Go ahead, sir Hi, I'm grieving everyone. I think you guys are there feeling well with the economic implication of the CBN and wal cambots are coming toward the accounting analysis of it. Really, I think the CIBIL has slept and you ranted down for some years. And it's really unfair because I have a kind of east a knowledge on how this account have been body dead. In fact, I don't have a copy now because I have the KPMG, but I know altered account in twenty sixty, seventeen and

eighteen, and I probably have a copy befinn it. What really plays me the most is the fact that this ordered accounts we are provided to stand out investors or stand up partners with CPN before they is shouldn't the loans so this foreign guys know in deetain our financial dealing as a country in modern people in Nigeria, and because of that, they were able to really exact pressure in a very different way that we will need to not understand at the end of

the day. Was clan kept doing was to keep chasing inchiagoes, burning our client from buying investing by market. And they're still doing need to today. That's the going after our workI affairs as still going after buynactional or that. Meanwhile, they're plenty money all around. And it's really really interesting because I've seen a lot of our journal is trying to do a very good accounting analysis of how they accounted and close the transaction, but they're still long way to

go and limp those people. And for instance, now way see obtained loom from those two for it, but it's really fraud less. And the way they disclose it in the account but also give you more reay close. There's no way you take a loan and then you go and sclose it in other liabilities. You know, I don't see, I don't see what it is wrong. The secresies lending they have for reserves, they took the margin loan. What's wrong with that is the way you account for it. How do

they account for it? Wrong to account for it? And how to disclose for the information? Well, how do they account for it? How how to support that? But the way they made it, the way the account for it, and the way they exclose the account, it's such that you need technical people to be able to understand what I got you. But I hear you, But we're going to the wait. Right is disclosed right instecrist lending is right in the balance sheet, So I get what you're going to

boat. I really don't see any smoke there. Let me get the last, okay, very clear, they're going to be the last, very quickly, very quickly, if you yeah, okay, So I'm so sorry, very I was going. So let's get profit and profit going to be the last. Let's hear you, go prof incredible, prof profit going once, profit going twice. Liberty. Let's close it out with you. Then we'll

just call it the liberty go ahead. Yeah. My question is it's probably a liman's question that I'm sure a lot of us have this problem now in terms of remittance to the jail. I have a situation where we remit you know, we give reasonable money, you know nothing, it's not it's not like billions, but something reasonable too. Friends who'll drink business and wach of you. Now, what I've found is number two things. Is there a way to because I'm thinking I'm giving out, you know, me and probably

others like me give up money to disport. They give business and over time they don't give payback in the time they want to pay back. And we've had this money tight somewhere where if we put it in something it will give us some yield or return. How do we in a limits time, you know, give people money to in a way that if they don't pay back in the period they say they're going to pay back, can't we get something

back? And how do factor that in? Because I wouldn't giving somebody like a million nies, I'll give you back in six plus and you still haven't got your money back around it's coming back in trickles. I hear you. I wouldn't do and that sort of business because there's nothing you can do about it. It's gonna cost you more to get redemption. So I wouldn't learn any one money. If you want to support or support them. If you

want to invest through a fund, do that. But I wouldn't go into the best of dealing with Nigeria in anything that needs my persent intervention to get my dividends. If I'm not doing with the company, don't do it. If in America, don't lend money or support anymore. If you want to support with a grant, do it, but don't do it investment because there's nothing you can do. If I don't pay you back, will you fly to Nigeria and follow me? So let's leave it alone. It's not something

you can you can't do. Don't worry. We're coming for the Canadians. I'm working with the guests. We're gonna come for the Canadians to talk about immigration business. We're gonna come talk to the Daskpra folks who are working on We're cooking something right. So guys, thank you so much for spending three hours with me this Sunday. We're here every weekend talking money of course, the economy and finance. My name is carlu Aja. Do try to join

us all the time where we talk and learn together. I've got a book. Book is on my profile. Let's talk about your money twenty two years of experience distilled in one book. Get it. It's on Amazon and all that. Note, guys, I'll see you guys next week, talk to you guys later. And buy