Speaking with BudgIT on their 2023 State of the State Report

Hey, good evening everyone. Wherever you're listening from Lagos, abujaa New York, wherever you're listening from, Welcome to the spaces with me Klu. This is the money space with me and over in the next two or three hours, we're going to be talking money, the economy, finance. How do those topics affect your wallet? Won't make it personal to you. Want to educate as well as oblip leave you better off when you came in. Today, we have she said, a special edition. I have the guys from

a budgeted and if you know them Budgeted and Tracker. They've been doing excellent work in Nigerian public space, tracking where your money, your tax money is going to giving you be good in fut graphics, what the government, what the subnationals, what the local governments are doing with your money. I follow them and if you guys listen to me, I always say follow Tracker. They're here on the space. You can see them right there. Follow them.

What they do is they go in and they allocations made by the governments to sub national to the federal government and they track it to the actual implementation stage. Has it been done, Where did the money go to? What has happened so far. That's what they do. So that's just your own way of putting pressure right and ensuring that the tact that you're paying is judiciously

use. You know, we currently do complaints. You know, complaints are just hot air and we someone might not want to go out the streets. I get it. But when you look at folks like Tracker, they're doing the job for you and all they want from you is to spread the information. If more tax spenders know that when a budget is passed, the ordinary line is going to track the implementation, there's going to be better commitments to invest that money appropriately. So the least you can do, guys is to

follow them, retweet, also help them. If you live in the local government and it's the project there, go and take pictures and send to them and say, hey, this is my local government. This project was appropriate in the budget. It hasn't been done. That's your own way of being Susan. I've got mistablished to go as a listener. I've also got Tracker as a listener. I really want to get them on board to the space.

So guys, best request to speak, I'll add you. We can do our introductions and we can get right onto the top of the day. We're talking the State of the State report. If you just go on my handle, I posted the link to the report. Also go to budget its handle you can also get the link to the report as well. It's very detailed, lots of infographic talking about health I g r GDP, how the

states are essentially do it and I like it because it's subnational. We most of times tend to focus on the federal government, right, but this is subnational, so we're also focusing on the states per se. Right, what are the states doing with the funds? That's essentially why I want to bring them in for us to talk. I essentially know what's happening in our own states. So's say, Lucia will serve about that. Let me have you just owe me to use yourself tell us about budget it and tracker and don't

want to take it from there. Welcome sir, Thank you so much, and thanks so much for doing this. Really excited that active citizens, private citizen and take the initiative and the primacy and importance to our work and we use their space and their platforms to distribute it effectively. I will just share a little bit about budgets. A few people here might not at our house,

and people you might not even know about us. But we started twenty levels measures that we're learning from around twelve years focused on civic engagement, physical accountability, public sector efficiency. These three click our elements of our work. Our work is to engage disease and ensuring that have the required information to work over and accountable. Is to show them a part of physical accountability, which means they can be the most using information that we about here that being able

to do to go over the accounts. And so this should efficiency we create about the public resources. Most efficiency spends that would require CISS because significant demands of that system we have worked. We work in five key areas. One is budget access and research and anybody that knows about budget chunk of that we work on public projects. That's like a major goal, that's our major role.

We also work on service liby management, which is tracker ensuring that road, schools, hospitals, clinics, whatever is built and trap that to the end and constantly bringing it into the awareness of public servants. Our third is a natural resource governance and private financing, which we just reworked. Still resent so We also care about funds and doing NPC considerate on private privating goods as we know. Then we also work private financing as a team make sure that

funds are accountable in our regard. The fourth part of our work is focused on strengthening the health systems. We care a lot about healthcare, so we build a platform called PC Track Adu Whole that I would share the links all of these platforms as we go along the way. So PT we created this platform to build conversation as much as possible around the pro primari of the system.

And the last part decision engagement super governments some governments that we think going to be efficient and one before looking we help them to improve their work and engagement with citizens. So that's gonna be sormary. We have our faces not just in Nigeria, gardens, librarians, Senega also a small output West international team soa too. Just the quick one for you, right, is what

you guys do in the other countries. It is the thing that you do in Nigeria, Like if you're in Senegas, it's the same thing you do there, like you track the governments first, almost the same thing or is different? Do you remember Mary. For so most of the other countries it's three years and so we just we we take it all year to understand the space. So we don't do program for a year, we try and do

something citizens engagement and weather's aby. But we're still doing that in Senegal and in US correctly, I'm super in Ghana for osmoland healthcare and natural a results confidence. In Libraria, it's gonna health care and public projects, whereas in see we're certain watch running the uses. And so it's not what fit size approach gotcha? What about just gonna common air or on track? I mean I'm a big fan, like I said, I mean the hugish fan.

I mean, that's a story I can tell I who want to say where it does. A particular guy was the legal state where he would go and print out what his loocal government got on allocation because it's all right, he can print it out and he will go and pace that allocation all over look at good men, and after I do a first laugh at him, after I pull that way to this guy gets in one hundred million a month or

one hundred of a month, they put her to ask questions. He got to the stage where lookal man will be like, hey, go ahead and fix this road. Then you have to come and cause trouble here. Just the simple act of printing out the allocation. See these things work. Don't treve away and say to never work with wasting our time. It worked to hold you to the account with data, which is what track is doing. The track's come on here, use yourself. Just let us know what you

do as well. My name is currently that track car. Thank you so much. You did so we see you talk about our work. Thank you so much, and I agree with what you say. We recently wearing there was a guy from Cano that told us that he knew a guy personally who was who used to criticize the government in Canoe and do all the criticisms and they not pay attention to him. But once he signed up. Instead they're

using the FA advocations that his goa government was getting. I think it was Surrealdy decided to say that he was using numbers that figures to back up what he's saying, and what he was saying was true. And they had to call him much as I do, and I called him that, come you this one, what are you talking about? What exactly do you want us to do for you and will add you to one of this environment broke beneficial.

So it's one of those things where you say that people think that oh, there's the governments to score up everything as there's nothing we can do, but actually did this and we say that politicalpus. They're online, whether you want to use online or offline and books, they're line, they're seen and when they see that, you're not just shouting oh they are still o money their courage. You are using data and figures you have, You're using facts

to back up what you're saying. They start to pick interest and sometimes it's a it's a long it's a journey that takes a I like to say it's the journey, not it's a match or not disperence. So it does not

mean that way you talk today to change. But they start listening and they start knowing that somebody is monitoring them, and so it forms the besom of your decisions with many rooms where they will be like somebody called us for our agency and we're like, they receive their letter, they will like us to

cover. They will give us all the information we want because we have been seeing you online or the way you have been attacking dispeople dont to do comman attackers, and so we say that it's if it's more like a class action from cities. Everybody is putting the yeah, yeah and for the yeah and every day we're way to get the government to listen to us more and equally, if it's only ten percent of what we're asking them to do, their name too, that is going to go a long way for us moving like

that. Well said yeah, well said I will. We all have to do something I can, and I know many folks complain, but they don't want to go out. I get it, you know, But just follow tracker see the project that they are tracking. Retweeted that's it. If you have a local government or you see your road, it's not being done. Take a picture, send to them. Go to your budget, pull off what the governments are going to invest in. Track that project yourself in your

own local government. Take a picture. Send It works, guys, it does work. So let's complain small action put their feet to the fire. It does work. But should let me come back to you. Let's talk about the State of the States Report. What's it all about? Highlighted? What are you guys trying to achieve the report, and how long had the guys on this report and are you actually getting traction with what you're achieved when you published the first one? All right, maybe i'll beg that you is

a guy and the part of the listeners is incosent. Maybe look for him and maybe she requests because our head always searched, and I'm sure he will be justice than me, but I can get a little bit of Around fifteen as well, we started to work on state up states and it was clair towards then prepared to was simple. There was a challenge in getting state budgets stated back then it went for the album of our staff arrested in trying to

get state budgets. I think it was in down to the state. And so whenever we ask questions about budgets, people just don't want to ask house.

So we said, okay, since we don't have still budgets, we who start at least starts a physical performance rating to check what is the viability of a state when we be seeing we look at the states, are we studying that that state has the financial almost so just we signed shocks or what are vulnerabilities of the state and look at the physical terms like budgets, IDR, revenue, spendature. We're spending so much, we spend too small.

I wasn't quality of their spaying. So we sat in twenty and fifteen so put it with the by Gates Foundation to been back in US since then and the work has been simple brand seats and the physical health and performance of states. And we've seen between the methodologists at least I from the iterational about metallology we were and World Bank and the World Bank we work on validating the metadology together. So we go to the old the Borough process of ensuring that mythologist

is so. So that's the second part of the work. And the interesting part is that we've had issues. We stayed but I remember the state of stay for the last year there was a government in southwest maybe distaclosess videos and he went on a hun. It filled us on the IDR figures and we're just saying that we didn't implore an IDR figure from the head. We used

what you have in your statements. I mean you could declay anything to the NBS, but we were working with World Vehicle was in your O detailed report. So we've had it stays commending us taking like a badge of fun or something that's push back and like else that this does not represent fact what we said. This is our methodology and this is what we do. And I think in the old purpose is that it was it was more and more important, it was more useful when the OI price shops happened in twenty fifteen.

I mean it was already sharp after literally forteing thing became everything pronounced and states now felt in a lot of states, I mean twenty four out of Telsey states and not able to be startares for a period of six months. So it was clear that state ability is a big issue. So national physical health is a piggish in the country. The further government and princes we are out of busical boris we have business a sovereign or states have limited the patulities in

the winness. And in recent times it's the performance who tells this. You know, the most excellent deb will be reprised with the valuable which remodized, expenstance being evaluated and some other insights like that. But I think the best person that would give an insight well in the state of states in a who sent who's ahead of research and it's right here, so it's got the flow, the mandate, go for it. And he talked to us about this reports. Right, what you we look at? Why is it important?

It starts off with physical sustainability? What does that actually mean? All right? Cool? But I think we also be on the report itself. We also also do thematic analysis. So over the years we've looked at experts report what it is. It's sad that I'm broken down ways to stay too in terms of expert what that state probility is. In terms of investing in health, we've looked at productivity about state. We took at operational costs of state.

So beyond those to the ranking. That's what we have like to to an eight hundred world peace and every state, because we also dive everything to what exactly we should be looking at. This year was about investment in health and that was the tally for national productivity and leave all right, thanks so much. I asked that white health. But if thanks mister, I mean fortuation. I mean a man, Avery blew out your work on Twitter around

you know, finance, and I'm happy to participate and also speak. I know earlier on the show, I've spoken about the days of state or states where it was difficult for us to get actual data to work with, and we have to rely on, you know, budgets and as you know, with budgets, objects are just projections or you know how governments tend to raise and you know, spend revenue, and the budgets do not really give you two pictures of our government is spending resources. It shows you know, a

snipers of our intends resources. But of course you cannot spend what you do not have. And so by twenty twenty, when states began to release their financial statements, he gave us a real opportunity to now look exactly at what states were prioritizing. You asked the question earlier, and what we try to look at when we try to measure the physical source and ability of states summary

is just check the viability of states. So if these skids were to exist theoretically as independent states, how would they say we they run bankrupt or would they be able to run the states with what they're able to generate internalier skates? What does this get sustability profile of these states look like? And so you know, we have to actuate the methodology three times now we want theta available. So currently we have about five h indexes that we used to measure

the states. At the first index speekly index A, we try to steal our skates. Are you know, able to their operating expenses, which what they are only able to generate internal what we generally called idea. And when we look at opreating expenses, we are looking at the personal cost, that's what they pay their salaries, what if pay has you know, pension another

benefits. We look at over heads. Of course, what our head costs unally forms the very critical component of the cost of running you know, government. And certainly we look at the interest on loans because as you know, uh, the loads are usually not reputable or reputable transfers, meaning that regardless of over much you end, you must you know, service boots and pay them back when they had to. And so the interest you know you look

play on those loans form your prettiness pens. So whether you like it or not, yeah, you must facialaries, you must pay patients, you know, even if now space have made it optional to pay patients and salaries. But ideally, whether you like it or not, you most facialarities. You must be patients, You must you know around government as its may. And

then you most service loads. You can decide whether this year there's not enough money to build the road or building school and am in government who still road? But these other components are work form operating expenses. So we try to say in that indexing, how the capacity of the states to meet that must

do? Which is operating expenses, which what you're to generate internal as if you don't add what comes from differal governments as fedal transfers, whether it start to try a location, or whether it's deficit, or whether for states that are all producing, whether it's the teteen percent drive vision for twenty years, where there are things like the Parish Fund, Paris Fond, Paris Club reform, or tailouts that are being into states, all these categorized as federal transfers

to the states. For the second index, we now say, okay, outside your idea, if it not add the transfers that you know I had mentioned, and you add ins and brands you know which its benefit from me each here how do how does how are you able to build your pretty expenses and your loan repayments obligations with your total rebion, is it enough right to

medio operating expenses and your loan repayment. That's index sorry escaped and in the A one which is basically how we try to see how states are growing their ir ye ony, so what efforts have still made right in the last twelve months to grow your idea and so we we try to also let your stage in that regard. Therefore index see the indexes. I try to look at the tax stability of the skids and will try to marry for you know,

small index is to make it a composite index. We look at what the you know, what it gets to GDPs, what it gets to revenue is what gets service to revenues. And then what the personnel post you as a percentage of the revenue is I need to be shopping at customs for wanting it? You know, sixty as sixty percent of the stage revenue was used you know for personnel posts, and so you are left want doing So what is

left for you, you know, to service your head? What is left for you to you know, to use to send this your debts which is your interest from your loose then you know, turn on top of what is left of your capital expended as you sort of issue a sense of where states are, you know what the standings of states are in that regard. That's what let me ask you for you for your hop of we try to see how prioritizing capital expended over their recurrence. I'll give it to you, okay.

And that's the first question. Right when we have the states performance on Index A, I see Legos versna O going and a number one, two,

three, four five. So does it mean that that means that Legos based on what does that fiscal What does it mean if I see Legos as zero point six three and at one point six what doesn't mean Yes, what it means is that LEGS was able to raise enough revenues internal that's their idea are such that they required only sixty three percent the point six of that your total revenue to service the pretty expen able to really enough to reach the opting

extent like Zambar by your start for restance Tafar wid one and plenty times was gered internally to meets it. It's a Britain expense. So that tells you that this state we need to do. You know it from meats. It's a pretty expense, not an out top of the other things like go aheads or the mount of epics as that's why you say that was on stage all the many particular is just to be salaries. The channel they willing to go

to, you know, generation of revenues. If you don't add you know what comes from the feral events as federal transfers like when you go to ind XP, we'd see to like for the XP even after you know the federal trans first the idea and you know grants and grants. You know that's put

together. What's you're not enough to take care of your plating expenses and your feeling say that a still to get it from parts of their loans and in types of hapics borrowings you know was needed to perform their capital expend may be so index big capitals index as only I g R index B is I G can what you're able to do, which is your yeah transfers or maybe how that is a motive in your pretty expenses and your own payments. Very interesting. Let me pick a state here, point in state in index A is

nowhere. It's a point still doesn't show up really anywhere and index A. When you go to index B point is number two the er point four four. So what does that mean that that points it is borrowing or have the What does that mean that when the stage is there? Legos point of what that means got in lots from UH, from back and from infant brands. I was able to generation not to be able to take care of his operating expenses. Alternatively, what that means, but it can also be is that

he was able to grow it IDR. It did increase his operating expense. So it's it said that you are trying to re use your person expense or you're grain your IDR to be able to beat your preating expense. Makes makes sense to me. It makes sense to me. So I'm sorry, We're gonna do a bit of this. Then I want to go into the state by stage your mind. Just the last points on this the I g R figure itself just want attached itself would of course shoe Legos really fasted the normal

corporate right. But I like to trage guys did when you at the I g R to the GDP and when you attached the IG at the GDP, we now have rivers Quara go go on in and so that's I know rivers I really about Quara. So you are saying that why is Quara? They're number two? Let's talk about Quara. So we you're looking at the idea is you look sing the capacity of the economy? Right, so basically you're looking at as as an economy, what are you able to generate from the

economy? Activity is happening in that your economic and so why the fingers very new? It is because even need a lot of citizens happening in some cases you call in most cases their users legs because in the way these ones don't find their way to you know, the compact of these states, the men who gets this money from, whether it's the access fands, you know, whether it is the market to men, whether is you know, the transporters, care riders. But then there's no channels for that. One need to

find this way to be comfers of these states. And so regardless of the want to more economic activities in that state, if you mental is what the states is then put to bake, you know, whether as tax or non tax reven you know, it doesn't mismatch, It doesn't tell you you're not able to see how those economic activities have translated into more revenues for these states. So if you look at it from that lens, you begin to see areas where states need to improve in terms of, you know, adequately or

efficiently collecting. Now I'm not going to use acting collecting because as it is a lot of people already paying. You know, again the appeal to your own true. You know, also governments, we now need to reform around how efficiently collect you know, these revenues. And you know I would now

use that scene in solving a lot of this society problems that exist. Let me bring let me bring Tracker back in here, and is there is there a relationship with this figures where we have gdpop a capital per state ranking and the she said the efficiency of the state government in implementing projects. Do we see a correlation for instance, it's quir tracker. Do you see that quaratitis? Is she now implementing this projects on the budget? Does that show up?

But do we see state don't make a lot of I g R but projects don't get done track dony correlations on that really have the full bits that because we do not track stay fund their projects? And why because the information is not readily available, so if we wanted to get information on the projects that states are to implements every year, we have to start lobbying from each

state every state to get the data. So we always focus our efforts on the projects that is readily available to the public, which is deferer our goverment projects. But sometimes this also these data also reflects some things that we see. For instance, we are launching our twenty two project tracking report on November eight and we'll be able to also comprehensively review what sectors receive the most allocation

even though they are federal government implemented projects in the state. And for instance where it's did like Parra, we thought that there were no education projects in the years, so they are about three hundred projects are none in ste education and so we have some states that also there a lot like Embody as well.

In our track in terram we've seen that a big issue that the state has the people have his access to clean water, probably because of the terrain of the states, and there are no water related projects in their constituency projects about yes, this is annoying. We also want to put the sectors are not necessarily further governments possibility when there when their interventions like this from the federal governments, they should prioritize what the pay the pain points of these states.

So for this one saying the states apacity to for their ideas out to meet their expenses or their capital expecting, but we cannot release it because we don't really track national projects. And actually, lads killed you will be traptured a projects. What you just said. So in the Bonnie State, lots of projects, but no water project, which is the pain point of the citizens of the Borne state. But the state is building is gonna spend fifty million

United States dollars on an airport. Fifty million United States dollars on an airport, just put it out. Then again you talked about Koara, you said there was no education. Could just touch on that again. So project project projects, there are no projects on education. We have qui aletes us to conclude they have no projects on the education and you know you One of the things we found out also is that for environment projects, there's a lot of

emphasis on environment projects for all the states. So it's like the fragile government even with the capital projects. Now before we didn't used to see a lot of environment projects in the capital projects just used to be being the saidiapist, but in the last four or five years environment projects have been really sticky seeping in into the largpis. So you have that the federal government is funding lesson grants to cooperative societies with a dread MILLIAD and even the budgets line items,

it's very obscure. You don't you don't know where exactly being discourse, where is it going to. So these are some of the issues that we have been able to be points that we'll be talking about also in the reports that

we launching. Okay and the last one back. Yeah. I've also done some more around or just you hoping to bally tries to look out how better to accurately and consistently project and spain you know, revenues as the casting we've seen that there's a weak correlation between you know, fabilibility of revenues and implementation

of projects. Government often to spend on things that the prioritize oft times than knows when you see the re implementation of projects that directly affect the masters and the excuse you would often get from government is that you know, revenues are not availing. But we found out that in practice, governments would always find money to spend on whatever it is it's considers priority. If it's an airport like you had mentioned earlier, it would build it. If it's an international

conference center, he would find money to build it. If it's not an international worship center, he will always find money to build it. So when you usually get the excuses is into school that the child of the woman who or in the health care center than the child of woman who beneficial. I mean, look at what the last with the last administration, because the federal mental bat twenty one in your narr to build the the clinic in the state

house cleaning. And if you look at the national primary development, that is you know something, the responsibility of taking care of over two thousand primary of the federation humilatively project for that was not that one. So what was that Probably you look at the primary across board, the lock left to be desired. We have to say it again because you're saying, you're saying it very

fast. People didn't already hear you. What you're saying is that the funds are located to build one hospital for the president was more than the funds used

to build half those across the federation. Could you just figures again one more time, please said this clinic the think relatively it was over twenty one billion NAR and the project the National Primarial Care Developments Basins he got many agency startled with responsibility of teaching to over thirty thousand primarier incidents, you know, across the letter bread of the federation. Relatively. Their project wasn't up to the

Coplex project wasn't up to twenty one billion. Wow. But that clinic was conditionioned you know, by the last president when left office. Now for the clinic to the state of primarial care centers right across the letter bread of the federation. And that tells you what that government prioritize. If we won't look at healthcare and so that is what we see replicates across school It would insert you to know that, you know, for some states, and I'll use

one states, you know as an example, an ambrasket. We looked at the budget executive because I'm not trying to move away from saying project performance because you're spending money does not mean that you have performed. So let's use the world execution. If you look at the project execution Ambra in twenty twenty one, you would see that he spent with and apple what was appropeted for for the airports in the year, you know, in the twenty twenty twenty twenty

one year. So if you want to look at what was allocated to the state's primary of KARE development or it was less than twenty percent of their CAPEX project and for the airport it was about you know, that was spent for the projects for the primarialk development part was less than five hundred million, and if you look at the implementation it was still loss up to twenty percent.

So you cannot now say that it is your family not to spend that so that you prioritize airport over the the healthcare of you, you know, twards three millions that you have in your states. So it's largely the prioritization problem more than it is problem. So in effect just became a number of states spent more by a number by proportion on an airport than they spent to educate

the students of a number of states. This is a choice that the states made to spend more on an airport than the indication of this is the same with their boring and all that. I mean, it's it goes back to remember when mister Shaw had comes on a space and the question was the Nigeria have a spending or revenue problem? And I always say Nigeria has a spending problem, not a revenue And if you give as the facts and the numbers to back it up, Nigeria has a spending problem. It's a choice to

spend it at the airport than the divisional children. And we make that choice every quarter. Do we do it? And then we say there's no revenues. So the facts and figures guys have, this debate is settled. We have a spending problem in Nigeria, not really a revenue problem, but we've got more revenues. Would build a bigger airport. That's what I'm I hear. It's a show just to come up with if I dive into the states by states, performance don't want to highlight a few states. You mentioned that

this report was based on health. Why health? I'm still it's not there asking me to take that question any if shows not why health? Oh okay, maybe, but I would just say we're going to a different semantic view of first I was telling to principles not a news strategy, and the part about new strategies to social sector accountability. We're really really people, so just for accountability. So we wanted to look at health and education and were more

specific. Second was also because we were looking about health, say that you know, would treat health like a social experts whereas small an investment in terms of productivity of countries to say we're invest the roads, which is school school with the big courts. That health is also like infest when to keep it out. So but both a different things that I said, experts, productivity, investments in education. I think this time we just feel like with the

open leveling fallout, we have to assuming much more the health. But you have better than you know, please go ahead. And I don't want to go into two states. I want to do two states or three, but two states on my Margaine, just go ahead, yeah, thank you. So I mean really decided to look for, you know, the magic area. You know that also speaks to you know, a lot of the interest of persons in office at moments now. Anybody butment now will tell you that

they have a revenue from publand. You know, they are trying to see how they can reach revenues. Is not enough revenue two you know, spend on govern many programs and projects. But what they feel to see is that there's a direct correlation eversed from correlation between health and educational outcomes and economic development. Economy as a kiss me I studies are right for countries that have better

additional outcomes, better health outcomes. You know you you would see that, you know that correlation between between that and the economic growth, and so you cannot tax you know, basic composition. You can only tackle population that is healthy enough to look for fine work and work. And so if you if you maintain it, focus on elth you do not see all the other contribute

factors that you know add to productivity. If you look at your numbers to be after the last count which was twenty twenty one when the unism close and it or something was done, one in every ten child born in this country

does not leave to see their fit paty. If you look at our montality as a kiss name, seventy percent of Nigerian women right, you know suffar from during pregnancy so far from anemia which is a low iron out and often times than not that's what is usually you know, glantly responsible for hemorrhage, who's part of their marriage, which are fully dilegates of pregnant with and so these things keep happening and you're not looking for a way to address these things.

Flags women who in a lot of you know, communities across at the Federation, rural communities you know, have often also found themselves to be bread bringers of their woods have lost during child So there's a strong correlation between health,

nutrition, education, and economic development. And so states needs to begin to see that investments in these areas over time, would you know, results in a productive population that you cannot tax, you know, raised revenue speech you have maybe a primary you know purpose are coming into official at the moment. So, I mean, that's a good point. I've never looked at health as tying health into what's it called economic growth. Was at education but

not really help. So if you could emphasize that your persession has just mean to me that health itself should also being as an investment, not just education in terms of growing geper capital of the state. So good point. You raised the India Not to be honest, look that way before Okay, it

was it was it was. I mean, it was sort of estimated that if we're not able to address I pola when it happened, right, and he was able to ten gates our health system, we would have lost two percent of ati pula as well as I tell you I Bula was addressed. I mean this sort of this is outbreaks are usually identified at the both called primary instances because local centers, when these outbreaks have many communities, that's our

such respondents these kinds of cases. And so if this centers do not have your pass into detect you know, to prevent and respond to these outfits just you know, just sort of this is outreks, you know spread you know, am the population and in lockdown like you have only twenty twenty becomes giving it and so what happens you're economy in light of that. So that's why

it's important that states movement prioritize the health security. That a very very strong link between your capacity to respond to detects you know, this is out bricks, you know, is and your economy as as the case for that. Goscha, Okay, so let's I think I have track it back. Let let's let's talk about some states. I want to talk about of course I'm biased. I want to talk about abbas state. I want to talk about legal state where I live. Just to highlight the report itself before we go

to the etho, grapra is a part. But if you look at at the person I see here is overall this clup of man's rank of fifteen out of toty six, he says death sustainability rank thirty out of toy six. So does that mean that in terms of death sustainability abias real in the bad spot where thirty out of is that's what it means? An okay, Still at recommend their treasholds from right amilidress or so for like the personnel cost to

revenue, it's recommended that it should not be money. Your personal costs should not be more than you're more than sixty percent of your revenue you'll get to to our revenue to should not be more two hundred percent. So we have

that those pressures for the four different indexes. But looking at the profiles of the states, what we want to choose to focus on, you know, beyond the ranking needs to be eble to look at states that you know have a large quantum of dollar denomilated dates and situated that within the current for a

next change regime, and our usually goals. For instance, because the diferentate of legal states as it is as Stember it's pressed twenty twenty two was more than accumulating four in dates of twenty four skids and so by the dollar you know are losing its value from four forty uh nina to seven seven one Maraghan we destroyed because it's without even acquiring any actional dollar nominated dates and grows orieeds by more than three hundred billion, and so at that sort of tells you

that post games, you know that a week having appetize for acquiring the large nominated dates, they would might need to check it, especially within the context of the current foreign exchange and the five states there are legals do cross river and bou and that's correct, what is about going in? What is crossing? And if they do ask cru what's doing for five hundreds to the three millions foreign? Yet does this include like they are still where is the money

going? To have an answer where the foreign debts she is going to? You will have a sense. So we do not have this sense and this is not just the mostly with the state problems. We do not have the sense of what exactly exactly you know this foreign loans are used for except for

the project type loans. There are some projectid loans that isn't that's okay, we're getting again for specific projects, but more broadly a lot of times to borrowing and not time to specific puget SOS can borrow to buy pass house of our several members. The States can borrow to build an international center if that's what because of that bird and that's a problem borrow to one de agreement citizens

as we have seen in the number of kids found the organization. But I appened to go out, you know, Christmas is to on the relig needs obvious. I wish start to be issue around prioritization because if he allowed answer a little bit of that, please go ahead, so I know for all the public for legacy of SA Yeah that questions to get treasure, I didn't I find in the top three for the name said the top five. So they've been there for Cadler. I mean it was the every five years.

They also had some boring that they took previously pre verified period for Zia Watersking project. I know that if you remember, there was a spark in the National Assembly between the former Senator Shows Sunny and the periods governor on the victory. Because let's not forget that for every foreign death is eight six must be approved by the National Assembly. So there was a pushback that some of the said it doesn't not pushed back that the lincol shields and I think that was

part of the sparking their polletic but also took some side. If you look at the numbers to some sizeable look foreign debt and then some of them was from the Islamic Bank, some of them from from the If you also look at Legos Legos as traditionally always adding for that world bank that pform that bout

is the one that's stund in reserving. What not yet understanding with bounty borrows because most not realize that they co bit stones end in ethets even if for federal location is when shared in the shad that traditional revenue, they don't they don't get their power of the revenue in effects. So definitely were huge cost, huge impacts on their on their on their repayments because they would have to

be playing back in there. So it's really very important and instructive that the pay seasons extra atension because I may state not borrows so much improving in ferndand and maybe it's something of short there, but they have to play back quickly or high interest suits. There will be challenges for a new government that comes

into play to be able to perform at all. And that's where the silent resign field powers are banded because state page they will not do to but I invested even do that was from the less sea to get rivers are quite from a do anymore. These are all oil goes in states. I get it, But what's can I do with forty one billion? This is total death now across the both local and foreign. It will be interesting to see what they did with this. With this one. It's I can say, yes,

put foreign a local. We've gotten a good bang for our book. Say yeah, uh interesting? Where are they talk about again? Now? Was on the total revenue growth. Now we're talking about the death's talk about about revenue and again talk on the infographics the subnationals together total revenue growth. This is one I'm in able to pickure mine on bayas the state has gotten the total that is number one to the top total revenue grow to the two

percent. What I did see when when you talk about bios states in terms of their y with fact and the very very low down. So what's happened small small polis the states? You know? Perhaps why do you think why so there are revenues from kuror cannot form the states without them borrowing. I mean that they're like maybe treatable in bios and if I consider yeah, thank you, so I mean a biostrastic it's all of the revenue you know,

comes from center azation they did. They're not doing too well on the internal generative revenue. They also have a relatively high operating expense and so that's why. So what action due to to the proof is largely you know, dependence on what the books as center rivas and they are made the tith you know that uh tiven de ambition. We considered idea because if there was resource control, probably that money that should have approved to the states if these companies were

dealing directly with the stip. But our methodology does not allow us consider the transfers because we think it's often no, it's no bestot of yours that you are helding that much it's just by the fact that you have all on the nature grounds that you have bele fitting from that getting percent. So at this point, maybe later on when we think that the posting or also codes, we can't do that, so you know, but at this point in time, they're not able to consider that. As you know, part of the

idea. And so what you nowsy is that these states had or has a very high dependence on flat revenue or federal transfers. So in the year like coping for Restance where the taps were shot, is that that happens when you want here it is it's like by us that would have been bankrupt because you know, there wasn't going to revenues from oil activities to one the borjet of

that particulars. And so one of the key messaging we always have here on yeah, is that states you know, need to you know develop or improve their domestic resource mobilization capacity to win themselves of the dependence on our federal transfers. And something that went with it, I mean a man pretty previous administration of any conversation from my high rest German. I mean, they're joining a lot of reforms around uh, the attacked regimm you know considerably when the last

few years, I mean, you mentioned something that's struck me. That's the tax the tax goal of the states. He's sort of that he wants a great to the point where he would attend fact meetings out of respect and I'm not a lout of necessity. And so what that tells is that the animo states, he's sort of that he wants to be able to throw the revenues internality point where whatever comes from fact he's seen as an additional right that you can now use to even know that you know, but programs, and I

think that that's something that everything is aspired. Listen, look at track. How are you guys able to track projects in serie varieing states like by Elsa that they have to go on the boat or even states like the desert states like your Big Way have to go like miles on a camel to local government. How hard does this and do you need citizens to basically assist you in

tracking these projects and have to reach places. It's something that you think would make your job more should we say easier in quote if you've got that citizens porter or something like that. We currently have the program called Community Champions program, which are basically chairs across state, six states and the city about one four hundred and ten years and ten people. So we have state officers who directly are the ones that are going to travel the projects, and the state

officers collaborate with community champions. So for areas, for instance, we've had able in Cartina and Kevin. In some places that are in security very rife in some local governments, people who leave their work community champions that we trust because when we board there's a lot of embodying going on and some periodic trainings stay at the ones that give us this information and some ways we verify this information to know that okay, yes this is correct, then that is what

we use. So we we where we are even distructured about work is to have a situation whereby we don't have state officers anymore, that the citizens who are going to be the ones doing this tracking, doing this feedback and doing this report is that all we would us do is just give them that platform to be able to put So we just recently revamped our mobile app and it is currently on bios, on app Store, and on play Store. It's called Track and Mobile. So if you download the app and you pick your

state or your local government. But you are going to see the projects the furtherer government projects around you in your states and your local government, and you can clip on that clip on the projects and given comments and also have pictures to say, oh this are this and this is the objects. And also

we have a place where you can submit needs. So if there's something that your community or your local government's needs, you can just give put out the information supported by pictures, or if you don't have pictures, that is also

fine and we will take it off and send it to the stakeholders. We are also working on onboarding government to use the app and need to see the common as government so when they are object or projects or needs to come to from people in their complaces or their local government, they are going to be seeing the directly. The look I just all on the app. Like if I have my app and go to my village, I can look for the nearest federals in my local government, go there, take pictures, track it

them just because I can do that myself. Yes, that is very important, so you can do that, guys. I want to let you speak. I know if you guys have been waiting to speak. But last question, I do have you speak. I'm looking at the chart here it says total educational spending capital. Number one seat is niger seat. The last sea here is you'll be I can understand you'll be insurgency. But the second last

seat is equity. How does a cut state the number of professors have the last and the maderation that spends on educational capital and then of course not just states prop to them. I don't number one thing in terms of total educations, right, And I remember with those states last year, he did them like a bomb, you know, when we had very you know, released in data to say that they were spending less than four hundreds narrow capital on

you know, on education and healthcare. And after you know, the reports, and this is credit to the kids, you know, they reached out to see how you know, they would be able to prioritize the states more. But what I got from the since I go from all of that conversation was that were not really pay attention. So the impact of the decisions only indicators like this, and so the mom in their faces, the more I'm able to pay attention to this, and I want the greats about a locating

resources two areas. You know that the large extents will improve, uh, realize our livelihood of the new that you know, the theself because a lot of times they're not able to draw these linkages, you know when they are

when the dishion making is happening an around resource and vocation. So I don't think he would be different in the place of the entity with the benefit of hindsight that they would never say that of the truth what we actually spent in the years you know that was this, so that that would be my response to that question. So I'm do you know what to be to be able to ask you afinitey of the lastic moment? What's the government at times?

For the president of this government right, they want to do as prioritizing you know, the very bigaro sausages of these kids in areas. That's how potential to improve their lives and livelihood of the people. Just gotcha point while taking let me try the flock open now to folks. I want to ask quessions thank you so much for which I know few. You've got the flow. Please go ahead, sir mister a right, go ahead, so you've got the floor. Go ahead if you're not ready. I'm going to get free

free. So if I could get one of our team members world, maybe it will request to speak about God spend one of us Cora and I think any hosts your co host a look, make you guys co hosts, so you can just bring them on board. Yeah, and the fairy question, so let's let us get a let me get free debray b the grat b if you can go ahead on the me. Thank you so much. Allo, everyone high, the high, mister Inni, tracker Io and the rest

the listeners. So I work with projects, so I'm just here to provide support and maybe just gave a little bit of more context, just like any said, you know your question relating to the curiosity, I mean you're curious curiosity as to why he wasn't spending how much education. So in a lot of states, I think are not or state governors have a a challenge.

And this was something that was said, you know, almost explicitly by the chairman of the Nigeria Governors Forum during the Just Health Salo states, you know you have political considerations as to where your money or to go. Are you going to try to please your in quotes loyalists and you know, lobbyists and people close to you, or are you going to please the people in general? Are you going to prioritize investments that have long term horizons or are you

going to prioritize investments that have short term horizons? And really it's been coming up in the comments you and any end stibig I've been making over the course of this conversation. But I like our listeners to really understand that these are

essentially political questions. Every decision that a governor takes or does not take relating to infrastructure, education, health, water sanitation is a political decision, and ordinarily stay houses of Assembly, you know, who are the on boatsmen or the oversized body ought to query and critique this. You know, you should say, looking at school enrollment, looking at infant mortality, we say that

our state is either following or rising. Why you're not doing X? You know, But these conversations usually never arise because of the nature of politics in Nigeria. So I think I'll just alieve that. Thank you, excellent good point, A good point on that. Let's get the agreed name. But I get right you go flow, you know, I think right here, Yes, I mean apologize, yeah, agree with everyone. My lad is

young. I a the g IP department for booget and very goodly. I want to say thank you very much for doing this, for giving us the you know, blending us your platform to also speak ableout things will be very about and also the work that we do and ensuring that transparence and accountability is the bane of governance and one of those tools that we use to ensure that

we get transparence and accountability in governmance. This goes froent platform. Just like Ms Shaw said, I compliments the track patfrol and what this does basically to show you exactly what the government is spending on project and I was paid to an MDA, and I was paid to an agency, and I was built to a private contractor that was spay doing business whatever you basically shows you you know these transactions and allows you to be able to track them and are currently

One of the things that we're trying to do is to trans sie uh.

You know. Part of the analysis that we've done is to analyze so how much exactly is going to private own companies, how much is going to interview laws, how much is going to you know, how much are the countrys are being done with those descriptions, because I mean we've seen a lot of things involved us towards payment by intradial government and all of the things that you know, makes this very interesting is that currently we're even doing the Fellowship program

where we have journal two of journalists you know, using strict resources on the

platform to tell investigative stories. So they follow this stone from how much was paid to under studying way exactly at the beneficial hollness of these organizations our exerty company, where there are do process in place when this particular contrast has been because we understand that from some of the things that we're seeing an example that which I'm not to see the government for companies the net of our own realize

that sometimes at the square right. But then, I mean, one thing that makes this in the first thing is because from this central of you know, the cultuarial platform where we get all the data sets that goes to the girlfriend platform, what we've seen is that they also have started been more attention. For example, where we had forty percent of our you know, payments that had scriptures from the last analysis went down to to just just as just

five percent of those pumas we have descriptions. So what we've seen is that then people are starting to pay more attention to distance and that they're starting to ask more questions as towards how their funds are. The steps and the one thing that I mean beloved always appos how do you manage so much you know, so much data set that you know it doesn't get confused. And what

we've done is we've aggregated you know, platforms ware. You can direct through from that platform, paralyze the data, use the data for anything you wants to do. And to get this platform only just need to do this w good, go spend. What we what we're trying to do is rus next. People know that there is a place where you can see how much comment is straining I mean from from not just being a project. What's going to payment as it will? Thank you very much, good points. Good points.

I thought on that princess family take above states with here all the time, So good point. King got the floor, Go ahead, King Austin,

all right, this is a beautiful platform. I was really really really hard working when I heard the other speaking speaking about in speaking about the primary health centers the states there in how you know government prioritize a needless to speak projects, you know, leave our primary health centers in history, but I wanted to I would like to ask questions along that line, and I need

more education. I would like to know who is response responsible for primary health pas centers and what is it that we can do to ensure that you know, primary health centers and developed. I am from Inmo States and from away Animal States, and my primary health center is in shambles, completely in shambles, and I've been trying to get answers to answer to this question, who is responsible for primary centers and what can be done to to ensure that you

know? In local government like my my my place does not have just work, but multiple that have functionally. Thank you very much, so any you want to say that that is asking who is responsible? Is another federal government, I mean federal medical. It doesn't have a better in front of it.

Who wants to take We are the state government and responsible for that right for the primaries in this seat being a directing which is where we have the fe sees and all that the states and the states are distal speeches at the General speeches a number state gofference as well. So basically the federal government, I mean the m PC right now is in charge of the region. Our

policies are not insured. That's thinking of memental compliance at this points. You know, in terms of taking care of those primary health case censers, they are basically responsibility of the statement. MM. So that's another question. Give answer. Yeah, it's probably just coming up. So he was asking what can be done. The idea is that the way you have a primary of

your center that exactly of the pervieal of these states. Maybe you would have a local government being in charge of providing personnel, but it is overwhelmingly under the authority and scope of the states, the Statehouse of Assembly, the executive secretaries of the various primary health care and development agencies or healthcare boards. You know, these are institutions, the executive government himself, the Commissioner for healthynessities.

These are the people that should be approached, that should be questioned. You know, speak to your representatives a hard time. We need to have real life discussions about what to do. Yes, we can talk about these issues, but going into the field, what is it like? So you know that because over sights is you know, joined by the State House of Assembly monitoring and oversights. That's one place to start. The State House of

Assembly, you're elective and representative. You know the chairman of the Health Committee, for instance. These are people you can write, you can come under, you know, a group of concerned individuals, or you know, go through civil society organizations that are working on health projects in your area. And you can even float in private members. They will on private they will in your partner to increase the number of your environment healthcare centers in your stage.

But I mean these are the points of contact, if I would say, basically the starting points where citizens need to ask questions for Supermo, citizens need to ask questions where you know an attraction can watch maker and super super good good call, let me go and roll in here, go ahead, Are ladies, gentlemen of any more given me the opportunity to unlet my voice and thanking budgets and the cruel for what you're doing tracking the the expenditures revenues of

states all across the country. I think I'm just my sucess here is I'm not an economist as a disclaimer, so I don't I don't plan to do anything pertaining to as a as a citizen of the country. I think I'm not concerned basically about how we want to practice the American system of government,

and we do not practice the letter. I've never seen the state in the United States going to the federal government every month to panhandle to beg the federal government and to give them marked salary, a wage like doing my jour, which I consider as a semposcal federalism. We have to truly practice federalism so that everybody can sort out their own resources, I mean, like their own

revenues and things like that. But I think that's just the autistic. Part of what I'm really concerned about, also is that maturity of the state and government are not responsible because of political experience. It Once they get into the government, the first thing they do is to take care of their cronies.

But you know, like on those days, for instance, just how many hubs for the states legilators the same thing the federal government, what do they need that of those cons that money could have been diverted into something else, like when we're talking about the primary healthcare center, uh, the education from primary to such borg to taser institutions. You don't have money for your barney

assue means of promising for our legislators, what are we doing? I mean, these are the questions that are being asked over and over again that we have misplaced by orgies as both states, federal and local government. So if we do not take all these things into accounts and really evaluate how we govern ourselves, would definitely come back over and over again to talk about this alas

this inefficiency of government. I'm doing a good job tracking all of these things, but mind, I want you guys to also, you know intensively your ets in calling them out more often than what you're doing. Yeah, Ron, it's well said, well said. I'm well said. No, I mean, well, I'm on your side. I mean, imagine if we didn't have these guys, if we didn't have Tracker. We didn't have but we didn't have all these folks on social media, we didn't have Twitter.

Imagine what would have been happening to then we know where I'm trying to buy stubs because of social media. Now we're going to second steps. They won't say, let's don't track the allocation in the past World War projects. You're located the budget posted when he goes, nothing happens. Years ago we had to go for the go for war win fall. They said it was twelve billion. No one knows because no one tracked it. No one has any report. There's nothing today it can happen. At least will know what was

spend. We can just go to opek online and give up Nigeria and we'll have to wor Nigeria's So we're going from that darkness. There's light in the tunnel, there's FOI Now I think citizens in social to do good. This is doing good. This is basically no social good. This is our own quote unquote way to protest. If you don't have money, at least spend

on the poor. I know everyone is grazy in the United States. Remember in the United States, Congress was had a stinger opression by the FBI when we're buying hammers from a thousand dollars and both for like a talent doors as well, and the FBI went to Congress did a sting or members of Congress and exposed it and so this died down. So now just are not more

corrupt. It's just that in the West, their institutions are a bit more powerful, you kindly just go as a congressman there and then have some budget and just take the money and put in your fridge. They will arrest you. But here you seeing that there's this humility of consequence. You know, you do whatever you want to do, nothing happens, so you know you do it again, and if you keep doing again until something happens. So

I'm on your side, sir, thanks much for commenting. Don't Yeah, I got your sir, eBay dog you wan Hebeke came met Yeah, nobody. I mean I'm looking for and I don't know. I think it is more question since the numbers numbers and the number of generating ant has three building and taking don't invind a numbers early. It is my kid on the job. And then I see and then also didn't mind that I also have to be in a number state and gating taxing video. You don't think it's the

case. I think that's is it in the condition or many and most possibly the question is I think I got you the experts, I hear, the experts I hear, But my ticket is I g r A is a record of the inefficiency of the government, not the record of the weld that could be collected. So if you look at the IGI report, you see states

like you' be doing better than a number. Ub is in a war zone doing better than a number Ubi. And I'm not just not an insult to the folks in Yubi, but like you said, the largest marketing were in Africa only tries in a number and Navy, So how can you be be doing more a number? But Yuba is more efficient in collecting igr that's what's going on. And what is this efficiency? What's this IGRR? If you take away DP that you collect from the salary, that's the easy one.

You have got to track commas and then tax commas. So Yuba is able to track and tax commas better a number and it's not rocket science. Anything paid in cash is lost. If you go to a number on that bridgehead, what do you see happening there? They'll stop people, Hey, pay your ticket, you give them cash, they give you sticker. Once it's

in cash is lost. That same you can have a little sticker QR code on every boss where the local government guy can scan your QR code and know if you have paid for that day and that payment you can make and make that made online to the state government and you totally eliminate out or taker just the QR code the Gerban wake up, scan his QR code. He makes the payment, then I says, driving, look at guys, come scanner in QR code and covering he has paid the difference no cash. If you

did that, you get a trillion in revenues across Nigeria. So igr does not mean as the reporter here is not the reporter, correct, But I tracked the efficiency of the government in that state to track revenues, to track commers as a tax. Don't only track the wealth because if he did, you will not be hard on the number. I mean, I'm going to trouble to flow to the guys in the tracker and a focusing padgets to say what's their own take? Is asked the question what's your own? Guys don't

take as well? I mean the election, So what did you have on this? I mean, once elections are there one a most strives to consolutely

power and how do you do that? Or you you know, did this much of my elections like that of collection of revenues from these market your mobilized boys, you know, to inputs, your your wote that you're the one in church of this parks you do that, Okay, what the w is braised in those places and you said, aspecting those guys because if you really want that, so colls revenues from those pieces, you have the entire instrumental

speits to mobilize, you know, structures of frameworks. Expect similar Shasic college. Most times the guys who call it if you if you check the guys who are really able to pack the impacts on your packet. H true, I mean that's just that's not not not more to add. Look at Legosty, we say Lego city has got the biggest ig I didn't Legosty before the

long when the army was there. Once that Legosa did well was this single college is ts C Lego long term ago tsa type account where even if you're paying for legos work, so you're paying for last month, you go to the bank and you pay before legos to you just they collect cash. But now you go to the bank and you pay. And that's that was the way of let's it enter the bank. If it's in the bank, we can then track it. Once you collect cash for anything, whether it's in

America, or Nigeria. That cash is lost once you collect cash, trust me. So when once that cash is funible, it can't go anywhere. There's aty today is shoes. You can you can do your transactions without cash with SMS, even without a band. There's no excuse. Everyone has a phone. If you don't have a phone, you can do SMS. You don't have a bad account, you can make payments. So there's no excuse for any state, in any localment to be cutting cash from anybody. None.

It's just in case we want to see the bit of it and give to their friends. But shure you've got the flowster, We'll still got track, We'll still got bullets it. And we're talking about the still the Steeds report. Talking about the report. You've heard them explain how they come about it. And we're trying to now ask questions if you guys have on how

you guys can participate in the google they're doing. But I should go for it to question is this mister Innis who says sorry you have famous it's pronouncing you know the day? Is this I noticed when you say that, miss that's the problem with prior prior prioritization that get prioritization of what should be done. Now you notice the states that doesn't have good hospitals, good God of money are beauty church. The states that doesn't have good schools always has money

to buy jyps for traditional rulers, keeps for also perseably members. How can we really emphasize that priority should be priority, what should be parity, what everything how to be created in social First of all, we don't care whether your revenue is big or small. Our business was being a good ship, our pictures was being good because before our schools was being okay. If you don't have money left, but you don't buy a car before hospital, you

don't buy route for traditional arena before fixing our schools. You do bot a broadfall and what is it called? And training before making sure that we have medical equipments. This would give me and thinking that everybody was to this before you come do this. You know, I don't know if there's anything like that on ground one for that because we don't make it. Stay sticks as what I ask you, I want to okay, I think I'd like to speak on that. And that's one of the reasons why we do not superatize

project tracking and one of the things we do is simplic education. Honestly, it's said too weak if a lot of times will be going to communities, and many times politicians also invest in what they feel will buy them good will you want and what they feel will get them re elected in the sacond way.

People are also always looking for the quickest remote they can get. So if you go to your community as a politician, and you'll ask them, and we've seen a lot of instances like this, do you want to school, do you want us to renovate your health center? Or do you want any environment projects where we can share some cash and share some branding matches or so I'm telling you more than half of the people in that room who pick

the environment projects. And that is why we've be's saying that environment projects take the kick when it comes to a lot of distance educational and health. There are investments that they do not guarantee quick returns. There are investments that the retails might take more than five years before you start see you, and so that is not enough time for impolitician that is a long time panditician who need to good for either the next election cycle or at least need something to keep

him in the good graces of people. So I think another thing we need to beyond us plan worry for the government to prioritize this spending. The government also want something that give them in office. So if there is if there is a what is it called, if there's a joint voice of citizens that this is what we want, trust me, it will actually be done. They are way to prioritize that that post. That is why you see that

there's a lot of funding for traditional leaders for recently communic religious leaders. Why because the people vote vote sway. They would swear over words, community things and the decision of the communities, so they try to in by them. If the people did not have power, politicians will try to be settling input traditional leaders or community leaders or what have you, or usual leaders. So because so it is what if people are asking for that, they will give

you. Basically that your your community is see for this, they'll give you this. If a committing request for that, they'll give you that. We have a situation in a body. I think it's good. The place is gone. I don't want to I don't know how to pronounce it. I'm something where the community has been suffering from They had a very bad room their talk for many years and in this last election side we had to educate them that this is something that you have to tell your elected leaders that this is

a priority or you're not going to vote for them. It wasn't two waiting if we tell this politician that you have to give us this or not vote for you. But if we see the vote and in consit is going to the letter community. But they're still to their chances and the politician actually aside them, they give them demode. So we tried to say that even as citizens, a lot of a lot of times we are shortsighted. And it's

also maybe because of the prevalence of the probactaries. I'd rather pick something that I get right now, maybe five thousand our cash over and where I'm locating and exactly where I'm not directed to remove. So there is this before the educational constant. It's a big problem. But I think that puma also have to come from these citizens. It is what the citizens demand that the government

is also going to prioritize. Thank you. To the point is if you don't talk, if you don't put pressure, they'll build airport if you put pressure, they'll put water pipes. You want water, talk that you want water if you don't build their airport. True, you've put the floors and go ahead. Job. It's a nice space. I have to come in. Beautiful work you're doing all the especially giving and we've all been advocating for some love transparency idea the government. Yeah, I listened to I listened to

Bastia's submission. I also listen to the restaurants from trying to first of all, let's stop that appreciates you. This is something we needed, This is something we are orgentially needed. You know. You know, the centralization of demands on the Federal Republic or on the government of the federation is usually overburdened. You understand. Nigerians just go out most of the times to critter the federation rather than actually looking into the estates, you know, looking into their

local governments, you know, undergrass roots et cetera. So, yeah, this is very very welcome developments because now it's opens up a whole lots, you know, in terms of little details that we often overlook as people. You know, we now know who to address, who to question you. You can also you know, with the live feedbacks or the prioritizing prioritizing updates

on feedbacks regarding projects that have been awarded. You know, the people can actually give scuse with regards to this and particularly know whom to question should things goes south. Yeah, So that's that's one very credible advancement. Then, as regarding what Virtue asked, I'll still have to take us back to the rule of law. I think if the rule of law is more realis more rigid, is more more steady, more practicable, than a whole lot of

uh misappropriation would be put into check. Yeah. And another thing, as track I had mentioned, is the concerns of the people. You know, you actually have to be indicating where it's speech in you for you know, people to be away, yet it's pitching you here and willed to address it,

you understand. So yeah, that that's very very necessary. As adizing uh allocating, it's just so sad like dragon that are given those facts regarding their education is not future prioritize because people look forward to returns and to be honest, when we've been an education for critism and you look at an aggregan system and you ask yourself how many graduates can they actually humble? How many graduates can they actually engage? So most times when you come up with education,

it's like, uh, that's something that's not priority. Well, in real sense, it's actually is key priority alongside healthcare. Yeah, so I also I checked out that that's from the draft of paid so much. Let me get you to land true go ahead? Yeah, okay, Actually those from the track of page. And I saw projects you know that I'm ongoing. For instance, I saw education empowerment programs for people regarding officially in both operations and things like that. Yeah, that's pretty cool, but it's also

gonna be real nice if we can get feedbacks on this project. You see, most times in Nigeria, to be honest, our news are not usually complete. It's always news. Use news. News needs that then follow ups very very minimum. Is like a situation where we need news and then we actually have to fix dates with people and call them back and say, hey, we fixed the dates with you. How far with this project? Like what have you achieved in terms of better men for likely food of people and

the interfederation? So yeah, I would commend, but then yeah, we need to fiedbacks, We need recurrent updates to we get matters not just updates are where the stand, but you know physical effects regarding the standard of life around where they've been implemented. You know, advancements and so and so. Thank you, good points there, I hear you. Thanks for pull.

No, guys, what about testaments to go and go? Let the track guys go and Georgia weekends about less than Testaments to go and then will call today. So let me get I'm I'm at the floor right here, go for it. I mean, I mean, are you are you an old boy? It was like you're an animates guy. I'm mean go ahead.

Oh h h yeah, it's you. So my own question because I'm more over you know, I mean, I'm not an advocate of states if you're opin their own governors in your own states particular like become see if we really get attention to the states, we know that that's where most of the collective efforts are mentally to be experienced. But we are not paying attention to the state. And sometimes if I see people comment, I will just be laughing.

We are joking with a lot of things. Now, my own question is easy that because I would say something I won't try and said earlier that people believe that, Okay, educational heralds are long term through the people always are okay, okay, it's something I want to see that immediately, so

I know people are always okay. I want to get it done. I want what can I get from this, you know, political or right now, because I cant term for the fact that something actually for instance, I know the colleague of mind Mingle and I grew up legers and negress that you know, we never even have anything to work in the stake at for something actually put on some thely you know, and I can vouch for like almost like twenty people ten people who are trying to went through the secondary school and

you know, proceed to the state university across the Nigeria institution. All they need to like is, you know, maintain a good rate and they get paid for their school fee. I mean just for them to you know, focus on their study and really come up with good Really as long as you can come up with good rate, you know, to have the tendency to really key into something of the beneficial for you as a farm. Because I have the forstance throughout my mind, you know, unerstic you know they is

every year get paid. During my time that was almost and it's more like a rainbowment. As long as you know you get it on marriage into exams. And that is for the states across all the federation as long as you are illegalship. Let me tell you this simple act is a long term investment. The governors or the state government doesn't have to go and needs people to

know that this is what they need to do. But surely we fail to understand something now that they tends it by many politicians knows that these people, they know the way of the people. They don't even need to go to that place. Yeah they can actually ask, but they need to be visionary themselves about certain projects they have to bring to a place. What particular thing

is that people need and don't want to really develop that place. And I can tell you, for instance, in most of the community now that you can virtually see or have someone while in every household who is doing is trying to pull the second person in that family out. So it's it's more I still prioritize human development, even if governments can be able to put more of your effort in that human mean human developments. You know all, I believe

that's so many things change. So how are these people funny? Who are the templates? I wish they they're going to use to run each of the states. We can't do something, you know, I meant, I mean, I'll be sure to get your question. Are you are you asking the tempic for the governors or the elected? Who does declared? If you can give me one? But is that? What is that for us to answer? Is that? Okay? Okay? What I got from that was in terms of tracking their promises. And I'm sure if I'm if I got that

right. If if a god says I'm going to build the road as a promise and he gets into office, I don't usually look at a problems, look at the budgets he has said he wants to he implements or the pursy formulates to implement his promise. If you don't see that, that's the first thing that you know, Okay, this is already off. If you compare specifically, if you compare the go and download the whole agenda of the president, compare what is said about that? Can we did a space so they

we did, we wrote about it. Compare that with the budget that has been released right now. There's no correlation with the building a huge housing stock. We did the coupling the benchmark from the oil pride. It's so different what was in the whole agenda and what's in this budget right now. So maybe that's what you're saying. But I'm just just agreeing with you that we have you have to hope put to account at the very beginning. If bo gets away with saying things, I'm not doing it, we suffer. So

in a way, I'm agreeing with your noney. You've got the flow noney line of money. Hey, go for it. Got about how about fifty minutes ago? Go ahead, talk about I think of that politics. Politics are actually different. It's it's it's the game on its own, like for the kids. One number of state man numbers is one very funny state that I remember visiting. And so they are trying babbles Oliver back and somebody actually

walked out to me and said, I had two people holding back. I never believed back on the interior, but I got to understand that they are. They are different. Whose politics have been relayed in these states, like for example, my Anambrasty. They are setting people that are only setting markets, that collect revenues from those markets, and those people have voice that work

for them. Not when it comes to elections. Those people that collect those money, I can bet you that they are always the first people to go to pulling units to boot. They are end meetings because that's social believing. So any governor that comes in actually knows that is how these things work,

these persons and deliver about that for me. If then because question for you, question question, question for question for you, questions for you, questions for you, just to asking when people you wants to go this happened, Yeah, this happened, this event. Yeah, people, I'm asking you. I'm asking about my money. I'm asking about the how the the parks paid the folks in power. I'm asked what I'm asked aboubout the I know about the tax an amateur for walking, you have to pay poll tax.

I get that. I'm asking that when people was the governor, where people going around most parks to collect money to give to the government. Yes, actual money, money money. Person has to be able to trying to think

that you're thinking about re election. Yeah, when we're talking about the artising that and I think the mentality of the people have actually the politics and I remember having a meeting and we have to do it beauty center, church center, just that you have to give to travel difficult actually because it was just center. The big hospital there is your facilities project that was actually none. I will ask the question, why would you offer trut in the church and

the health center. Don't you like you do? If you don't, let me let let let let let me learn. I know, I know I got you, I got you. I must saying you opened, I must say you offered. I'm saying that if you tell a Nigerian church or money, if you choose money, you're a devil. So it's a wrong choice. That's making a joke right there that if you're asking Nigerian to choose to church and going anywhere, if you choose you after that is you're a devil

worshiper. So it's in a way if you have such school or what I want to include church everyone, it's like when they get married, they tell the girl to go and take one and they put dollars, they put the arrange, they put your I don't pick one, and the girl gonna pick bible from the whole pile. You know, if you don't pick Bible, why you say that your marriage is not going to be all that you you know? So wonder head. Yeah, but let's let's drill this down.

But Lego state right has more of an entrenched pack. If you see this Agborough packed collection thing, anyway, they clean the top a bit to where it is now. I still insist that if you use technology, because who is pain? The people are pain. If you use technology, you can get around this motor pack whatever whatever whatever. Like I said, there's little QR code where you receive all payments. I'm not saying you should not pay. You can actually tell the person that you can pay, but you can

get ten percent or twenty percent or whatever it is collected. You can't do that. But the point is that we all know that ninety percent is gone, not I from ten percent. So that's my point. I agree with the collector. Okay, if you collect a media will give you ten percent or that's enough for you. But to say your best date is making more idea than number states, on the face of it is a joke and we all know it. So that's it's fun. Number to six that okay,

unity and antech an tech using tech, I mean we have tech. So you thanks so much, guys. Thanks welmost running up, I've got think think right. Your hand is up to go ahead. We've got about go ahead. Think right, and now on the floor for the think good for go ahead. Your holder is very looser. Think think. Let me get Google Google go ahead. Okay, thank you, yeah, thank you very space really happy. I'm always happy to talk about the country that comes from.

For I would like to just make a few comments and asking you a few questions, but I'll be very brief. First of all, is the role of insurance in the Nigerian economy, what it makes use at this point, seeing how businesses are collapsing and closing, to actually look at recapitalizing the insurance industry to see how we can we need to get some of the challenges that businesses are facing, and of course the three of the capital for other

things that once. Secondly, look at the possibility of accountability that is not within our power, but I think work to the largest and if we can get more Nigerians to get involved with I won't say politics, although you cannot separate politics from the economy, and that's why it was political economy before. Now it's through this. If long get the politics right, weever difficult to get the economy and getting politics rights doing things are gone in Nigeria. Now.

We cannot abandon the country. We just have to keep doing our best. And how do we do our best? I think we should create a mechanism to let the police gupers know that they have to be accountable to the people. They have to make sure that the public office is held for public books. Okay. I don't know whether polician answers together to talk about the average Nigeria. I don't know whether as they start together to ask themselves, how do we put people out of poverty? And when I say that,

I mean genuinely because most about to get on the table. You know about more important things like health and education and things. So how to improve the quality of life and the great new realities people? That is what through in responsible countries. So to be honest with you Google, to be honest to shoot Google right. I think politicians everywhere are the same. I've never seen a political system. I know in America they collect bribes. THEO in America

collect bribes. Partians collect bribe. They get into office quote unquote average guys, they leave multi million years. But the difference, I think again is the institutionality of how America works. How if you are caught with dollars in your bader on video, you are dolf. That's a difference there. And yet you can collect lobbing, you can take being with the collars. They're

really cause of their own bride. They call it law being right. But if you are caught with free with dollars in your fridge, you have don't here, you cannot you can be seen. They said, if you show us a video or people taking money from the CB and vote, But who said what he said? So it was the voters that said this. If you show us a video of the guy taking doors from there and the guy true Treu went to CBN and took to the trade trillion ay because you guys

told so. I don't think it's the difference is they take if you do stuff there, you are done for. Here you're not done for. So if I was, if I was a politician, why wouldn't I print tonsarde trillion? If I'm the president tomorrow, I will print one hundred trillion and start to spend you guys can be crying, I will spend it in this this then arrest me that I didn't build the road, but I'll build the

roads and the rest. So this is the thing about Nigeria. You know, we we want to copy, you know, but we don't have institutions. Today. I'm a bit afraid. Today in Nigeria is the day we arrestaurant that has mount Then I would say, oh, but this person did this, Now what happened to him? Well, that person did this? Now what happened to him? They have to say, oh, that was because of I want to see what will happen? How will ravel or rap?

Most of these things would have said that. Okay, in the country where you know the impunity is, it's this this incentive, this incentive. If you want to invest in the country where contracts are not should we say adhere to where the particular class can do and don't do. It's a big, big, big risk for you. Where you can invest money and tomorrow the government can create a new law. Not in the new law just close

down the business by feat why would you invest? And this is the point you're making yoursel on the second part, you know, So it is the insurance against governments. The insurance when it's government insurance, I ensure your visits that youve government persed new policy, will pay you back. That's a very very good insurance policy to ensure your this against government's policy. But they are apart from that. Nas don't buy insurance. We have life insurance insurance.

Just buy auto because by police, they don't buy life insurance. It fair to pray and hope that they will not die. We're all going to die, but nobody buys life insurance. That means it's so simple they're going to die. Since in the age buy life insurance when you're younger. Once you buy life insurance, you instantly have that access. Insurance is the only product that you can pay in Nyra and get a million guaranteed god ran seed.

But no one does it because if you buy life insurance, that means you have print that you die, and we don't put that. We want to live in a name and well we laugh, but that's how we look at it. Don't write it will, don't do estate planet because you are inviting a demonl of debt to your heart. That isn't that will. So let's

us hold. So we have to change a bit of mind. It's not to hold the governments account, but this the individual Nigeria and has got to be a bit more to demand more and our own selves change our own selves. Might not to say government did this, goverment did that? Our own selves. You know what are we doing about ourselves? We are the ones that said stake the money from the CB and we'll see votes for you I need from the CPN. So let's just get the last folks here. We

hold the spaces. We hold the spaces every Sunday, seven pm, wet up again time. All things being equal, next week we're gonna do FX. We're gonna do. That's what we're gonna do. Export, all things being equal, let me the last one. So I'm going on to these they track our folks to go and just kill it. This so the last things we're going to be. I wasn't I go to go ahead, I go to sorry all the time. And the measures gross domestic happiness not all

these idea atys. And it was so fascinating as the financing to see how long we start thinking about gross domestic happiness the country financially developed there. So I was not from delta states. So I was looking at that idea and I was saying, well, look at the auto sets. They didn't do more, they didn't do bad. Then I looked at the gates I had stuck, and I remember gross domestic happiness we have. Delata State is arguably

one of the states with the highest depressed people. So one of those idea, I was saying, a bunch of concom both stories. We are depressing Auto states. Nothing books, no road works. I look at our track. Let them do more. Starting Juta states did nothing nothing, absolutely books. So maybe idea is not a good measure of things of the canomic development. Maybe you start going to all those countries to see how the major growth

domestic happiness to really development. Because of the economists, I need to speak what you're doing, do you because they've decided growth domestic happiness versus idea. I just wanted to I think I don't know, I've just exaggerated it. But our deaths, it's thinking us and mismanagement like it's sad. Anyways, thank you, and not to not to put what on your butan comments, but that's not a country. All this quote and quote not remember will say

quids of trouble. But Butan is a unique country. You know, small tighten it very esoteric, so I would understand why they would call the happiness. I mean, GDP is one of the many ways you can measure economic growth. That's g N right. You can measure water supply like Tracker has done. I'm sorry reporters don't the states of state that focuses on health. And he did mention that you know, looking at health and education as investments.

I just look at educations and investments and helpers cost. But you need to saying, listen, health and education. I really do know the stimulants, you know, the things that you put that put that allow that state to then grow and develop. So we have still like a kitty not investing

in education. That's what's coming up now in a row. So I get to a point completely, and I want maybe someone from Tracker can come up and answer the point about data state and not being tracked as from data don't look good lots of income, but I think there are number three in terms of the ostability, and the data balanches is not balancing. So I know, if I'm any or Tracker or anyone from girls give us a point about

the data states that will maybe closed the space out on them. Anyone trying to up I would like something from but I say track out, you know, anyone, just give us a word on on data. No one taking once you need Thanks for your film, Yeah, commune, like you said, I think you went off in it is dropped off. So let me miss solution. Yea question. I think the point she was making was that

she went to Bhutan and they were tracking across domestic happiness. I think over all points is that just focusing on GDP or I g R might not capture the full spectrum of how the society is living. You know, I could have a very very high GDP and be unhappy. Then she went specific that in Delta State, Delta folks are unhappy. They have a lot of revenue. IG is high, but debt is high to set trackers normally tracking Delta State. Those are the comments around there. I've got a shown back,

I've got you. You're gonna take it off, please go ahead. What's the difference. What's the difference to us? Tell us difference that we could

follow. Okay, So growth national income measures how much people earn, you know, on our average, how much is earned by you know, all the number of workers and later outputs in a particular country, as opposed to roothmestic for aucts that looks at so these are very simplifying definitions and opposed to gly looks at how much has been produced and how much it is worth. So I get you know, her issue with aloys looking at GDP and you know, to a real large extent, a lot of scholarship has been trying

to move away from GDD. One of the reasons being that, you know, growth has been said having limits for technical conversations the day. So the idea is for citizens to really define what they want and this is what federalism was meant to answer. Someone mentioned this earlier that when we practicing the ideas, speaking about of the realis really think about a different Back in our history. You say that all the states in Niger were creations of military governments.

There were not creations of symphony of civilian governments. So for me, that's kind of interesting to say that would Nigeria be in Nigeria today if we did not have you know, a military government that could create states of fiat, you know, if we had to go through a constitutional process of creating states. You know, this is not talk of like the midwords gnagion becoming a becoming itself from the southwest. But you know, the States has really not

then today. So citizens need to be able to define for themselves what they want, what is their future, what is their destiny? And it's meant to be particulated through political parties. Physical parties are meant to be aggregations of interest that are taking a step further and vira office you know, and you know, and perhaps through appointmenticine what have you? So in an should like sound saying that how do Deltons see themselves? Where do they see themselves being

in the next few years? And what type of politics or how can politics answer that question? I think that's where, you know, the conversation needs to start from. When be through political parties, would it be through campaigns, will it be through advocacy? The issue is actually about advocating interests and then going forward in that in that direction answers the question. It's just a conversation starts with I think I think a great conversation to have around that.

She hits her points, yeah, shows back on that. Okay, So guys, I'm going to go on called the day. Sadly, I think we think look an iPhone, iPhone fifteen. Do you got to put the rich and powerful? Yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking that so much down to first thank you specifically for most in the space, and like I believe that you don't grade work, go back to more people to us. Our interests is the same play that public resources should work for the people and issuing

improve the quality of life. That's just all our mission that people should take information and we certain to cover accountable. How ISBIS as you know we have but it has like two fifty to sixty thousand followers. The reason more people can hear our message follow the information we again, because that's only in the

way I don't know we can do the working punctry. We know we have elections, we know we have sh nity list, but the only one is that whatever we have right now, we have to make it work for us. Because you can see that. Thank you sir. Just let me just thank everyone of your team from Tracker to you, to everyone that has come up here to speak and ask the questions. We do. Appreciated. We are we have to be a data driven you know consumer, right and will

have to be the driven voters. And that's the whole idea. We have to move from the complaints right to following up this GUIDs with data. You have been given money to spend, Where did you spend it? You have been giving the plan, you said you're going to do this, have you done it? Why are you not spending money education when we have more money than the other state. Why is that state not spending money on schools and the other states in our region are spending money on schools. We have to

ask these questions to the politicians. We can't get angry. We have to ask them and demand an answer, and what they don't answer, we go vote for someone else. That's how it should be. We've got to hold people to account, and it's always important that we hold people to account. So don't complaints, don't say it's all over, don't despair, because in the end, it's only here, this only in case we have right.

So that's basically it. So, guys, thank you so much for spending time with us this evening A said, we're always here every Sunday, set Opinion. We're talking money, their counting personal finance, and we're also trying to make it personal, to break down that language to how we can understand what's going on. We've heard a lot happening all through the week. The four Ks, the plans that they have for the Forks are borrowing. Hopefully

we can talk about that as the months come ahead. But we also to leave you it's more information that you came into the space, so you can have those conversations and perhaps share with the show makers that you know, so change can start to happen, right we have to grab it and we have to change the narrative around the country. So Nadal, thank you so much, but it's tracking the rest of the team. Shout you guys. Thanks everyone that has listening today. I'll see you guys next week. Have a

good one and bye. Thank you so much, thank you very welcome. Thank you Da