Nigerian Has A Spending Problem, What Can We Do About It?

Hey, folks, good evening and welcome to you wherever you're listening from. My name is carlu Aja. Thanks for being on the space we'll call the Money space, and we're talking money, the economy and of course personal finance. Won't make it personal to you. We get those topics and of course we just courses that way, when you leave, you're a better investor. Now, this has been a crazy week, you know, like if you're just following the event of

You didn't help me up.

I listened to your disposition and you know I can't igree this.

You know your concerns are totally.

Valid, and you know one of the reasons why I really talk about the Polica economy is that we are missed a divided society where people sentiments are high and can't you beginning just end your business pace? So one can't argue with many of the pointers are putting there. However, you know, the unique situcial in Nigeria is that our

Reasons were not perfect.

First, I looked at it from the short term perspective that so many opportunities were pounds in Nigeria.

I look at the bit of dinner in.

The short term has helped and trevy bills the years coming from treasure bills, you know it's coming down.

So debate is that if now you're a stock market at.

This level, despite the police rue as kind of triggered local persipation, if we can't get in fpis because the problem we have right now is that every stock's like nasty, and nasty is the stock that when FPS are in, the stock easily.

Places to one thousand and three to one thousand and five.

But you know, local perspetionion shows that with the investors preferred this penny or stocks that they can easily so like banking stock. Yeah, I totally agree with you. If it scutside is totally for me.

I what did.

I find very funny to be with you. And I try not to be political because you know I'm not a member of the Doing Party and your supported Doing Party. But you see, Calu, the mistic we had whether we.

Want to give a president with the credit for dango tevi fire.

We could see that this present physical party, there have been a downtown.

In fiscal discipline.

And you know, I've been yet different arguments that we.

Are coming from an aware corruption.

Yeah there corruption, nobody's just putting that about the inefficiency of our institutions has really shown and.

The fact that we are not united.

You know, this is the first time in the world where you see sexualizing really going high. I remember one of the things that made me so happy about night night the election wherever that came to power.

You saw that he won for you could even in so you said the unity and till today, if you asked me, some of the ministers I can actually pay. For example, it's one of my favorite ministers.

And because what she did in the derivational ministry at that time, his transpit to waters the skirm was doing right now, so you see there's unity in that space because right now, you know people.

Judge your comments by your name.

People judge your comments by your people judge your commenting.

So we really need a system.

Where efficiency in nationalism we really take good. But as said, all those things, I'm better on Ndia businessmen, and you know, I think so far has worked. All the things you said there are long term risk.

Let me ask you this. You may have mentioned that Nigerants are buying the Pennys stalks and the fbis are buying maybe the next the big one stocks. Are we buying pedy stalks because that's what we can afford? Is it that the Nigeren investor is so consumption poor that we look at penny stalks the insurance guys as the way to invest because we just can afford them, not because they are the best in terms of return. Is that what's going on just.

Totally right, And that's part of the picture. So look, you have to understand beaver, the beaver culture of natial So these.

Talks usually they are not very higd to be.

Honest, Like someone was talking about the gagle all my timeline and the fact that he couldn't sell out. So some sometimes the beaver patterns of some of these talks also is the problem, and people don't know how to real we did some of these talks talks. Then other thing is that, like you said, this the book comes very weiglu And there was a time there was a time when then mentioned brookers like public Carnlestone, because I use all this brookers and.

I use that this five. And the reason why I use this five is that I tried.

To understand the other book that tried to see price efficiency.

I tried to see the charactersis of that market. So there was a time car we want to open our account with these guys. You must have been any more of one there.

Now that barrier has gone gone off because a lot of people can't really invest with didn't we want and one more particle? You can't do the two or nothing in your profer in today's market.

So the truth of the matter is how many people have fifty one the investment account? How many people have whatever?

If you look at if you look at people making the world in the stock market, can last year we had to intu tree on the year.

Before we had a level trion, less than two dozen people took half of that world. You know, less than a dozen people took half of that world. If you take too tanqulity to add the passion phones had their few fpis, the remaining is just us capping.

So we're very poor Comfrey in a real loud system, and we forget to realize that world is grown by equity.

And if we don't really get that's really right, so to say, can't believe it. So yes, you're totally right. Disposable commit putally high and so.

We total low based on high food information and also that are missed in our culture, economy culture way player likesrepreneurs or someone like is more popular than you know, Cargo.

You're coming from an advanced markets you a lot.

Almost all Americans know the most you know, almost all Americans know p gay almost.

But it's not the same in Nigier. You know, I try to do this with so young people in Niger and asked, you know, it was like, what's that? What's that? They don't know? What they give you?

They can live with these bodies, and so we have the cultural problem, Cargo.

So it's a lot thing.

And I told someone yesterdacause I said, for at this car, you've been consisted.

For years on space financial matters. How many people come to this space. How many people come because people say there's noway? But you we we do a lot on our ways. How many book? But trust me, when you.

Have social distractions, comments, the insults, politic jungles, dragons.

You see thousands of people. So we need to also wake up culturally. We have that problem.

I see I don't great call. Let me hold to bring someone else in. But let me just leave you guys in numbers? Why does the important for us? Right? So the budget that presenting presented to the National Assembly was was let me get the exact number was forty nine trillion, right, forty nine trillion. Now, he then says that he had found savings of four point four trillion.

Cally?

I'm doing very well, sir, very well. Yeah, what's your take on what's going on? I mean, are you? I don't want to make just Fello goment, but Nigeria really has got the spending problem. It's not revenues because we've gotten the revenues four point four trillion extra revenues. But what did we do with double the spending? So what's your except.

It's not rocket science. I know.

I keep on saying this all the time, But in order to resolve our economic issues, we can't do it without solving the political issues. Because why do we have a spending problem. We have a spending problem because.

Those who are responsible for our budgets inflate our budgets.

I mean, I'm sure in the last few weeks you would have read I mean, anyone who reads the budget, who follows what budget does and what yeah he does, would.

Just your mouth will just fall to the.

Floor with what is contained in the budgets or some organizations things that are totally unrelated to what they are doing, you know, amounts if that are just incredulous.

All these things that are put there.

And as you pointed out, these things are being done year after year after year.

I mean, you live in the US.

The vice president of the country lives at the observatory. They maintained the building year after year after year.

So anyone who is think who.

Goes into the building, just as Jdvans went in there after Kamala Harris had to leave is never going to meet the building in a state of disrepair because.

It's maintained all the time. And the same thing applies to the VP's residence in Nigeria. They maintain it year after year after year. Is not neglected. It's never left two rods. So when they.

Now tell us that they spent twenty one billion on having to renovative what exactly were they doing when somebody has been living there for the last eight years and they have to maintain it to make sure.

That of good standards.

So we have to deal with the issue of our National Assembly. We cannot solve the problem of spending regarding our national budgets if we don't deal with the National Assembly.

We cannot deal with the.

Problem of spending if our central bank is not responsible in the way it manages the monetary policy.

Our central bank governor technically.

Is supposed to be independent, is supposed to be able to take decisions that are totally independent of the political class.

But we know in Nigeria that's not the case a central.

Bank governor that pieces of the president will be fired. So where is the financial independence for the central bank to act properly? There is no So we need to deal with these problems because you you went on a fifteen minute ramp justify ramps about the problems we're having. If we don't have an inflow of investment but we're having an outflow.

That's a message. It is telling.

Us that the rest of the world does not have confidence in the management of the economy, It does not have confidence in the stability of the local currency to secure its investment.

So in order not.

To putting good money after bad they pull out.

We need to change these things.

Can you be more? Can you be more? When you say focus on National Assembly? What do you have in mind? What can we do for a guy listening? Is there anything someone listening can do on his own today? Is it just to call it out public? But it publicizes things Like you said, what can a guy listening do if F'm in America and now there's a lot of Is there a senate community that I can go and report to?

But you see, it is the National Assembly themselves at complicit in this. I was just reading a couple of days ago that some of the Nigerian universities were complaining that the National Assembly members were asking them for a cut of their budget in order for them to approve their budget and that if they don't give them the money, they're not going to approve it.

And it is the same people you're now going to.

Report the issues that we're talking about when they are the ones who are accomplish it in the whole thing. I think it is important that as Nigerians, we all really talk about this in the in every public space we have.

It's important that you know, those who are.

In office realize that the Nigerian people know what they are doing and that they are fed up of it. I mean, I wish I could tell you Calu that there is a solution in practical so I mean if we had you know, I don't want to talk too much about Tullubu today because we'll be going into another match.

But we have to be honest.

That if we want physical discipline, the leader of the

Yeah, I mean not you're right. You're you're right. When you when you you you save four point four trillion, you want to borrow thirteen trillion? You know, a child will tell you wow. So that means if I have four point four trillion and I want to borrow that in trillion, I simply take the four point four and pay all the thirteen trillion, reducing my borrowing. But no, they put they simply increase their spending. So when I tweet Nigeria has a spending problem, this is what I mean.

Something earlier, look, Dango Dangote has set up a refinery which in one field soup should solve Nigeria's problems concerning petrol.

True, Okay, Now, a serious.

Government knew for the and I'm not gonna I think government. I'm not just talking about the present government. I'm talking of the government as a continuum. It knew for the last five or six years that this refinery was.

Going to come on street.

They knew any sensible government would have said, okay, this refinery would need six hundred and fifty thousand barrels of oil the day in order to meet its optimum production targets. How much of that can we afford to give them?

Do we give them all of it? Or do how much of.

The refinery would have been in a position to plan properly. But you can see what is going on at the moment for them to even get it from the refined from the oil companies, they were demanded for a six dollars premium on our own crew to give it to him before they announce started talking of okay, we are going to denominate details in Neira and all of that, and stillly not getting it. The same government decided years ago, okay, we will take a twenty percent stick in the refinery.

Would the Nigerian pleasury.

Not be receiving annual dividends from the refinery after putting in twenty but instead of them paying for the twenty percent they didn't. They still left it at seven point five.

Yeah, how do you explain It's it's a mess. I mean the bigger point you raised it. I just want to move on to to vio Evah. Listen, the Nigeran goverment knew, like you said five years ago that Dangot the final will come on stream, but yet they kept on taking the crude oil from n NPC to borrow. So most of the crew that are located to NNPC

Yeah, I'm just bringing a few nuggets before the next speaker. So first of all, we since start bleating the NARRE because we are more reliant on FPIS.

You know, we usually stipid.

We could, but it is that little data should like most invert those that are coming to are investing because of our treasury bills. That is not sustainable, but that that's on the shot term. And also if you look at the fact that the oil price data shows that all inputs in Nigeria has dropped but is a fifth in the last three months, that's positive for FX conty.

Because if you look at data, most of.

Our effects applications from the import side is on patrol. So relatively danqulty is not positive short, mid, long term. But one of the things this government has done that how we look at it from in market perspective side, is that the reason why they had no choice then was that they could not take those reforms that me and you were shouting on them. The effex was subsidized. The glow declaring for that. People have forgotten that we were subsidizing efforts when.

We're not't producing anything.

There was a time cibin was not getting any effects, so we most prayer for that first. You know, when you want to you see the issue about economies that this continunity doesn't work in a solution.

If you waste money, you will have the bad retirement. That's our life is.

That's why people that enjoyed their retirement each the mad sacrifices sae. They put their fronts in different things investment. But we didn't do that. So that's the price we're pelling now.

Okay, sefore you go, let me go ahead. The fair government put The problem I have with this budget. The problem have with this project is that, yeah, last year, if you look at the nine.

Months they released from the ones released and you look at the Manaumal office, you see that they're setting it with implementation. The feder anisty have done better than to know. But however, we've seen that budget party. We've seen that fiscal monitoring from the National Assembly has been arable. You know, budget idea, you just so many data reports that shows that you're saying your projet in school budget on the pillow for work.

You see the space center saying you won't do olive.

The olive you're not saying it. Well, this school will set they want five billion nothing, samely will give them one hundred billion. That's what's happening in Nigeria. Misture of fisheries. I think it's fisheries that they always go to fisheres we say we want two billion, they will give them two hundred and forty billion. That's what's going on.

Yeah, because that's where they get the cut from.

Exactly, That's what they get exactly. That's what's going on. Yeah, that's what's happening. Let me get Vivian has dropped off. I was gonna call and let's get some year limited and you get this hangle some year you've got the floor. I don't know where he is at. Let me get tired.

A big fan of your tweets on economia and like thank your expenses now. So, like, I think this is a This is probably never gonna happen for Nigeria because you can see how difficult it was for DO to even kickoff, and how heavy the democratic kicking against it, because the is going to expose a lot of information which you know they've just had going over the year.

You see how we are so not there, we are so not there.

It's easy for them to track this payment because there's always a pay per trail in the expenditure from the treasury asking for this amount. They can always that it can't come even after four administrations, and they can still track the paypa tray of the money. It's just the rationale for spending it. So it's like things that we should think him to be honest, I don't think we I don't think the sixes don't even want it because they don't even ask for It's.

Like they don't you don't really care.

It might shock people. But I've been really following this whole doge stingy in America. The Nigerian public finances, the way we account for public finances in Nigeria, honestly, it looks like it's better than what the Americans are doing. Let me give you an example. Once the Americans approve an appropriation, then it must be paid, even if the

Yeah, callu, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak.

I'd like to look at.

This from a different perspective, Samyah, I see you, my brother, I see you. I want to use a top down approach. I think the problem Nigeria.

Has is the system of government.

Now, I'm glad that we've been trying to juxtapose Nigeria's system versus the American system. We all know how the presidential system of government is very very expensive. The federal, the state and the local government. Nigeria needs to go back to the parliamentary system of government completely. We need to put we need to put power back in the hands of the people where people become accountable and are easily more easily removed from office when they do not perform their duties.

And they are not accountable. This is going to take a very It's going to take a.

Huge effort, obviously, because there's so much corruption.

As we all know that the.

Leadership and accountability and lack of rule of law are the problems of Nigeria. So until we go and change that system of government, I don't see how we're going to be able to implement change in Nigeria as regards accountability.

Because I'll give you an example.

We all see the massive pushback against Doge and against Elon Musk to be specific. In the United States of America, nobody likes change.

Even in any organization. Change management is one of.

The most difficult things amongst executives.

Nobody likes change. So for us to be thinking that things.

Are going to change in Nigeria and everything, it's going to take a gun to one efforts.

So I don't see anything changing very very soon.

Especially because it's so hard to hold these leaders accountable.

So that's my submission.

Thank you very I mean, you make that point so so simply, and you make it very very quickly. But it's a major point. This presidential system we run is too expensive. When I can't afford apprentical system before we used to have the parliamentary system. You forget to make this point that in a parliamentary system, the minister has to be elected. So if we had to the six States, then you have to be elected and then when you're elected,

Us. When you cannot run an.

Economic concern like a political organization, you cannot interfere on issues of accountability and good management.

In countries where the.

Politicians understand that the economic management is key, they intervene only when it is necessary. They don't intervene because they want their cronies to get certain favors from the system.

In this country, we have a situation where.

That is the case.

So when we change that, then we'll begin to see different results even from our public institutions, because public institutions that provide an economic service can work. It's just that if you have them, you must run them on the right principles.

You can run them as a as a means of patronage to your political friends. That's just all I wanted to say.

I hear you, I hear and again, I don't think Nigeria. I don't think. Let me streat myself, so I don't see Nigeria's I don't think I care who runs an NPC as long as there's cheap fuel. Dan Gotta today we say it's a monopolist. We say before dan Gotta built his refinery, NPC had issued forty four licenses for refineries. Before dangottested to build, his people had the final license, no one built. It's the same with cements. Oh, Dangote

Good living in Carlo, goodivning, lumiadiving.

I'm enjoying the conversation so far. I just want to speak about the cultural.

The cultural thing about Nigerians that they see political offices.

As a as a point to go and steal public fronts.

In places in very very small societies, not very very small units of government like maybe and.

The hospital institutions.

You see, everybody's striving on how to steal and lisk the resources. So because Nigerians themselves, they even the ones in power they are choosing or selected from in the midst of Nigerians generally, So an average Nigerian have this thing that whenever I have as to fund that belongs to the government, lets miss tale everything and is accepted by the Nigerians society. So when when these things look like the norm of about eighty five percent of Nigerians,

If we have it kind of systems.

That that punish wistfulness in government, then we can start talking about how to curtail the spending problem of most Nigerians aware I live in communities here. If you have if your budget, if you have exceeded what you need, what you your your budget, I.

Mean money are located for you for the year, If you.

Have completed all your projects, you are always looking for how do I return this money because you cannot take it, it does not belong to you. But back home, they would not even do the project, They would steal the money and delay the project. So every Nigerian, even as far perk as when we're in student you know government back in those days when you umediately become a student, you.

Know government leader of a university.

Your peers are expecting you to do large amounts of celebrations for them, despite the fact that it's its student money. So an average Nigeria believes that government's money is to be wasted is to buy build houses. Your relatives start calling you to do lots of things for them.

So the cultural thing of.

Wastefulness it identifies with a lot of Nigerians. That is why you see them make money alreadily and become broke in a certain number of days. So if there were consequences to we think government fronts, if they were, if these people do not keep getting.

Away with what the loot or how they are.

Wasteful wasting resources, maybe we can have a better chance of curtailing the the spending problem, where you know you account for every every double that you spend. There's there's the clending still government houses. When the government comes into day, he will renovate the building. When another governor comes in today, he will do something something similar A similar project. That is why they approved projects and a lot of time,

Thank you, I think maybe good points again the cultural outside that you brought up. You know, once someone enters the government, he goes to his church, he does thanksgiving, Nobody ask any question. He goes from his biq to a ten bedroom massed and his ladier say, oh, a charge a price to go there and bless the house. His kids all move abroad. We say wow, his kids will go on Instagram. Wow, I want to be like

You know.

Nobody ask any question. So you make a good, great point. Really make it a good point that you know, we have to ask questions, we have to hold people to account. You know, where's this money coming from? It's my money, you know, someone's kids. You know, I was in the UK, ones I went. I was in UK university to visit

Sir?

Thank you, sir, Thank you, mister Vessie. You've got the floor. Anthony, Please go ahead, Anthony. I hope you guys can hear me. Anthony, you can, uh Ve says you've got the floor. Please go ahead. What if you can hear me? Olive? They let me bring it back to them, to the market, back to just just back to this Bodet deficit. So if we're going to borrow thirteen trillion, what does that

I think it's kind of time to be honest with you. Notice that the CPN.

Surprisingly postpone the MPC meeting as all the excuse us that that is.

Not ready MBS.

You know that's disappointing because you know the impact of NPC meeting on the capital market and a lot of policy.

Please take that, use that decision to plan.

In fact, the headline interestrate really play the crush all our monetary instruments, so cal it's very difficult too.

But I'll say this, I think I think the CPN, in my OUNTN opinion this year their.

Reforms, I've been trying to buy time again for the physical side to get things right. The Carlo I don't think we are not looking at this that fpis are common at the premium. We have to pay them at least twenty one percent, you know, because they're bringing their money to invest in that the later set, because we

So the reforms in the energy sector gives us up.

But from the poltical angle, you know what cases me from the protical side is that many of these things are liabilities. And I was so shocked, you know, you know when some people I don't know better because of inflation has affected the rebel for you to be calling for tirty one new stage, you know.

It fits more magulation.

In fact, everybody was like stone because you know you said it that allsted on in reality can't really stand on their own.

And why I still give.

Legos some proms, it's because that if you look at it, historically many states working legals feeble. Look at them quarterifying for example, what's not legals parity. I look at some projects it came to legals or because those states they lost. So we need a system where efficiency is rewarded. And I feel that if our markets are upgraded, cal if

You see what the manufacturing sector is doing.

Definitely, my bet is start, we're going to have the positive five.

Yeah, I mean so, let me just ask you again on that question. We saw Trump saying that he wants to go to Saudi Arabia and it's going to ask them to reduce the price of crude. There's also a piece deal between Ukraine and Russia in the works. The peace is saying that Russia will sort of hold what they have, Ukraine will not join me too. But what that means is that Russian oil will not be saved from Ukraine attacks and Russia will start to pump out

But why why would the Saudis agree to what the Americans are asking for?

Because because because they have the Petro do life. Yeah, they have, and they have they have a world. And again, don't don't forget that it's Iran Don't forget it's before before October seventh. It was the Arab world versus the Iranians.

Before Otoba, the Wahamas did so there's still that thing there.

But don't don't don't make the mistake that there is an assumption that there.

Is no meeting of the minds between the Iranians and the Saudis and other oil producers with regards to what is also in their common interests.

Okay, Yes, they have political differences, no doubt, but when it comes to the issue of oil production and ensuring that the price of oil, it gives them maximum repion is because Thudi Arabia also have their own internal issues as.

Well, and they have a lot of developmental.

Projects that they need money. Yeah, well I know, I know what I was saying, and I get your own angosa. But the real it is that America and Saudia Arabia. It's also been Saudia's interests if it is not too expensive or explain why, because what I was really saying is smart because if you understand the fact that uns this is the leading of oil and also the fact that when all is expensive, your production becomes attractive, and the production is big in America and that was.

Wife remember some years back.

Arabia try to keep all at lower end levels because.

They want to make your production car however.

Or Nigeria, I think would be win came because if you don't explain why, marginally it looks like it looks like in negative scenario because you know, naturally Coulder is our major export, but in reality not really a big player and couldn't expose again and the fact that we also have down Quaturifiray bringing out exports and will find we expect discent margins and also the.

Composition of life could still makes it more attractive.

You look at the WAT for example, he's selling ten dollars less than press could Nigeria's could is three to five dollars higher than press could, so it will really take a lot and I don't see it happening this year. We runners will sit with the present on the table because my strategy is that sorry, my strategy presents from strategy is that.

He wants to bring a lot of people to the table. He's already working on that. It's working.

But in vanity is that this don't happen in this all all all is it going to be sensitive commodity and it's mostly seasons and a lot of funamental so it's stronger to for example, wo cap all prices, but at the same time it might boost nagers. Socrates a very debated put thing.

But what a lot of people are putting on is that the.

Fact that Couldy is already pigiar about twelve noon parers of good American could it means that he can't cheaper margins. He can export descent margins and we have fatlizer exports already on ground.

The fact that the blood is already kicking.

Out this his fields around exammobile you're seeing them, is also ramping up.

On that on that angle you see, uh, the clouds power Gurugu.

Taking advantage of the fact that Africa, the govermmber is giving the fire government billions of dollars to turn eleetricity. So calu this year we expect efforts to improve all this doma.

But the risk for Nigeria, the risk of niger.

Is implementation and how these things are torn. That's where city problem because in Firing, for example Danko this day this year, for example, a competitude to their calu at the two billion dollars were coming from from the outside world. In lot of investors from Determinal to High Street, to Ministreet to Mayfair. All they want is they want to get a mark on down Koti. So I think clean y YouTube.

But remember Dann does do private placement to those big boys. The money comes to him directly and not to Nigeria. But just putting aside, right, I read the Treasure Secretary Mister Scott Bassett said they have three main goals. So one of those goals is three million new barrels of crude pumped out three million. Nigeria is still struggling with one point six one point eight, so the US wants to add the total production that Nigeria is making this is US not in OPEC. I know, ail markets are

Taking a West Africa market is going in roads to me doing and there are reports that is already having a couple of agreements with So yeah, I agree with you. That's why the future of.

Nigeria emagine industries actually the downstream because like you said, imagine it's expensive.

You know the operating.

Operation that costs for Niger which is between night to forty eight, the paye the most expensive.

And it's not that we are on the rocky. I don't know why that is because of security. Are different things.

But if you look at Sadia for example, it costs less than ten dollars, so suddenly can afford oil prices can pass up, which yeah, I agree with you, but I think our future is betting on the refined, where we get high imagines like this.

Yeah, I just I just hope that the only thing that gives me confidence in Nigeria today is done got refinery. That's a game changer in Nigeria, game changer, and we're delaying the game chaine because we're not giving the man crude oil. If Dangote got crude oil today one hundred percent from n NPC that he needs one hundred percent today, Nayra is going to lose about being sound naira. So you see Nira about be twelve hundred. This is just

So they know that they have the other in case that true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, interrupt you guys.

I want to just ask two questions because these are things that I've made, I've always wondered about, especially when you were talking.

About the interest rate.

We know that the current interest rates we have in Nigeria are unsustainable for industry.

They cannot borrow.

Anybody who borrows can only do it for a short time. You can on make any long term business plans based on borrowing money from the Nigerian Banking Center. What would it take to bring our interest rates to below ten percent? In Canada, in the US, in the UK the interest rate is between four and five percent maximum Almost ours is now it's sixty fives as much?

What do we do?

I think a lot of people don't understand that if you look at inflationary that the love of reasons, why are interestes are high?

And you know, from a MOUNTI.

Perspective to the nest with two that's the best way to bring.

In influenced like and you don't really apposes your country.

Now look just look at the socialia for example, many people who are on mini coins, maybe, who are on skids making, maybe who are ranting.

Maybe, so we're not really put it.

If you look at export imports, it's not even chinnas two weeks export import in it.

If you look at it, look at what China and declaras.

Sup and declare declared supplus because what's Typrica declared surplus?

You know were the valety is that we are not ampoosing the country and that.

You are part to change it.

Now you have banks, for example, they are they are integral to.

Our economy and they also have to able.

To figure to.

Your community. Is so uh.

The the reason is that if our banks, for example, they have to be created. The reason why our banks are instellar profits is not because the really sector is working, is because they are not everywhere else on cutch treasury management where they have to do investments like good Man saxpone and study a bank like ancest for examples, are devastating opening in different African countries because they want to have less pressure. And then you're so, why are you're

That banks have to be creative and we have the best brace in our industry managing that system. For defer government.

To really make our system productive, you first have to fix the culture.

People don't want to want businesses.

People don't want go from See look at the space wayer talking in for example, how many.

People are interesting for us?

Because I always say that see your passion with break barriers. Business people who Anda I know really appreciate it. You you post kick makers in front of business people. You want people to do business, then the persons. Belo has seven distant buildings in Nigeria's talk market is not any billionnaire. And all these businesses are profitable. Four of these four of the stocks. Because I'm every exposed to the stocks at all the time, I do you know how much

Now because see work Transcorp.

For example, we did one thousand in two years. You know, But I maybe I just can't take a radice of these things. So it's not that we don't have bright people, but these bright people are not head. I'm going to try to push these bright people, you know, because we have a system where entertainment and all this distraction take the other of the day. It becomes a problem. So we have a fiscal problem, we have a social problem.

Because it's not that people we don't have intelligent people. It's not that we don't have processes that are not working.

Even with just tough climate, we have people minting money. That's why I keep shouting that see pull these rich guys. Yes it's not perfect, but this which guy have found a way to break even in this market. You can be part of this. So I think the solution is personalized for me. I think the solution is within.

You have.

We have to change the culture. We have to push in successful people forward.

We have to we were plagizing governments. We also need to fix ourselves because every selves as a little bit you lear on it.

You cannot be criticizing governments and the line on the bed not doing anything, not learning, because look at the blockchain, look at I see manners are self thoughts man that.

I don't want to say, I don't want to point out something.

I don't know how far your memory goes back with regards to now our Nigeria has been.

If you go.

Back to the late nineteen sixties and the nineteen seventies up to the mid nineteen eighties, there was an industrial sector in Nigeria that was growing.

It was producing things.

Were being made, different things being made. These industries were employing people. And if we had continued to develop that industrial sector, then it would have brought about an increase in despise of the economy. It would have helped to increase the purchasing power of people who are earning from the manufacturing sector.

But when.

NIRA collapsed in the mid eighties, all these industries crashed, most of them for use.

Listen, let me give you the academic answer for those listening right. So, interest rate is the cost of money. You know, when you go to buy meatpie, you pay money that's the cost of the meat pie. When you go to a bank, you buy money, you pay interest as the cost of that money. Now inflation, right, if you look at the very very busy developed inflation, it's too much money in the economy chas into a few because that's a very very busy definition that we all know.

On because America in the reserve, America, it.

Doesn't, it might, it does, it doesn't matter, it matters anywhere it's under or under good luck and conjury. Well, we also printed money, but the inflation was flat line at about nine or it was flat line. It's the issue is the productivity. If you don't have power supply, If you don't have power supplies, you are going to be in trouble.

Just trying to give the monetary perspective of monetaries then to tell like, if you look at your most plying that guments, is.

That essially spending inflation?

You know you have to look at the argument. But I understand your thing. But if you look at the context of me, now it's not used outside.

I hear you looking there. I hear you. But America America printed money and built Hoover Dam, Nigeria printed money, or Nijera borrowed money and also built Kanji Dam. Nobody would argue that Kanji Dam is inflationary. Nobody because Kanji Dam prices power that then powers semis. So whatever you spend in kanji the productivity gain will soak up the inflation.

So but can we can we agree that.

Using using interest rates to deal with the issue of inflation can only work.

When there is physical discipline from the government.

You're using they're using interest rates you to deal with the with the with the bands.

But this is the government that is pumping out billions of billions of explained.

Simple reason why is why is the interest rate looking attractive?

You know, if we have lure with this situation we're coming from. If we have.

Interest rate, trust me and I would have gotten to or like you said, I've gotten to the reason why I would have this kind of stability is that fbis are coming to that you have and investing in our treasy views. So it's given the cpn ethicts to intervet, control, stabilize, catalyze the market.

But you know it's also giving.

Us time if any were already dissent, like the operation that you use color, it should have assisted.

But right now that's.

The best ammunition the CBN has.

So if you say you want to wants to reduce, do you.

Know the amount of speculation is also so I don't agree its speculation.

Only that you can only do two things. You can only do two things. You can number one increasing interest rates and then kill growth because interest rates kill growth. That's the academic or you can reduce interest rates, allow inflation and allow growth. You can't do both of them. So now in Nigeria, for me, for me, I would say this, now the inflation increase, the reason of the m PR is not really killing inflation. We have been raising interest rates for the last two years, kept on

Let's do the arguments telling it. You be honest, if you ask, many.

Monitual financialists will tell you that the eye interest rates is no leads to solve intuition because we all know that it's not solving intuition, but it does it lots now capitial markets.

It brings stability in our market.

But only it's the same. It's the same thing where this, this attracting f PI is the same where you fight inflation. When you sell a currency, you are making the other currency go higher. When cb AND sells dollars, Nayra goes higher. So when CBR makes interest rates for Nigeria higher, they are making people to buy nyra and sell dollar, so

You're going.

It happens in any in any economy, is exactly what happens that Americans do it, the British do it, The European Central Bank does it. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Yes, the US FED will give you what is fd I S this those are all last year. Let me let me explain. You asked me a question, because folks are listening. Regional banks in America were under thread last year to collapse regional banks when we had the collapse of the

That when you're talking about the money.

Is there efficts that we have in Nigeria.

According to JP Morgan a lot as we have worked about six pillion gross, we don't really have money.

Olimited Nigeria issue. Nigeria issued a five hundred million dollars bond and it was over subscribed in Nigeria, not abroad. In Nigeria here the Symbian told Nigeria's if you have dollar, bring it out five hundred it was over subscribed. Let me tell you if Cypian off issues a one billion dollar dollar one billion dollar bond today in Nigeria paying six percent in to be over subscribed, America is paying three percent. We are going to get in dollar six

Lemlproof Why I disagree you.

So look at the top of the year, look at the experiance start of the year, and look at when busses came into play.

The year is about six weeks old, right, the years about six weeks. If you look at the f FROMMTQ, this is a letter has arranged between one, five and one for fifty to one. Yeah, I want to putting that.

Rule.

But what I'm trying to tell.

You is that ability and demand FX demand in Nigeria has.

Moderated a cross board. Let's and the kind of.

Bull a city be so in the past two two years, we're not expected correct. Market is not clear to market, you cannot get that kind of that except so you have to put all those.

Don't crowded space if you guys want to speak, But let me say something live. Their stability is supply. When Nigerians don't see supply of EFX, you know what they do, They buy two three months supply today. So if I'm an important, no, no, let me let me learn. Let me learn. If I'm an important and I import tiles and I need ten thousand dollars to import tiles. If there's effects stability, I only bid for one month, so

So this is what recipient is doing on defer government, So we just update on their own strategy.

You understand that there's a window where you have to put your FX in the bank, so it's going to be put in after that wind to it's going to be kind of legal for you to have FX outside the banking system.

That will also give the NaNs one by time. However, if you.

Also look at the fact that the FX code, the efficiency of our financ market where you have.

You determine now to run Now you.

Have f transaction as somehow really brought.

In stability since November to January.

That that's also helped yes.

PDC pleasing usual liquidity for waiting for business pity.

I'm not disupposing that.

I'm only saying that there are a lot of factors that the government is really working on. But my thing is that if they really implement all the things they plan to do, I don't see how the night would be this parabolic like we saw was blue because our demands, they already know our demand size, They already know the fact that.

You and I talking for instance of Nigeria, you and I talking don't know the the claims on that effects reserve. We have forty something billion turn something billion. We don't know the claims on that effects reserve. So you and I talking here cannot even say, oh, we we have money for six months or eight months. Supply there's money in the foreigners, but it's borrowed money. The point again, I come back to this again, to this. As long as Nigeria's know they supply from CIB and they not,

Yeah, go for it, Thank you for thank you for this good conversation. So well.

Listening to you guys, I'm you're a very young guy currently studying the UK.

So when I listen to your conversation.

I am very It seems there's a problem which we are killing the realestalk to find finance, the to do to get following direct investments outside from outside the country with this high interest rates, and also the government's spending, government spending. Every inflation is simply unproductive government spending, simply unproductive government spending.

And one thing I always have an issue.

Is that it always seems that the government is isolated from the people in Nigeria. Like people in Nigeria, like the government exists because of the natural resources we have.

The government can flute in another realm.

That is, if the people are not productive, they can still survive. And that is not how it is like normally, like in Singapore, they didn't have any natural resources. They have to depend on the productivity of the people for them to survive, for the government to exist. And the thing is that I always say products the government exists independently of the people. It is like I would say, I give an example of the government like in mafia.

The mafia exists without the people existing. The people they collect prints from existing.

So if you can find a way to direct to connect the survivor of the government with the productivity of the people, that is the only way the government is going to really work forward. And also there's there's something about there's something something about spending. I've lost my chain of thoughts.

Sorry, I mean your first point is fantastic, you know what you talk about. Yes, so we're not passion the government. What the syband is doing is actually what they're supposed to do. The Sibian's job is not to follow the federal government right, so thecibliences excess liquidity, they have to raise interest rates. Inflation is the devil. There's not worse in this life than inflation. You can't avoid it. So whenever you see countries when they see inflation coming, they

Yes, yes, Carlu I want and I wanted to say.

I've gotten back mine. The thing is I have this, I see this.

Why is it that because I'm always off the form of the mindset that in Angeia we should not have. We should have it with that if there's a manufacturer for something in Anngeria, you have to product protect your young industries. If there's a manufacturer for something, any any important, anything important, won't be tarifed, just like China does.

It, Gurope does it.

You look at industries must be producted protected. But it's just like because the there is no way we can be we can and competit with China on the level of efficiency of our production.

Of course China produces so efficiently.

I hear you Bobby, very have to protect low. I hear you, I hear you, but very careful with that. You know, if you google the I can't pronounce the word exactly. It's called calico c a L I see a calico act When in the past, Britain controlled the textile trade in the whole world. Britain controlled. Britain produced all the clues that people were in the entire world. They have the you know, the weave, you know the

An Okay, sorry, I said, okay. I would love to appreciate what we have discussed. He's been amazing and I've been learning a lots.

So I want to come in on this angle. Nigeria. Of course, you just have a spending problem.

I remember really is when we solved the news about having itd one extra state in the Nigeria and I was speaking to the colleague of mine and I said, what do.

You think about the impact of the one more states in Nia? And they said, ah, he's going to be good, more employment, more people in government.

And I said, don't you think he's going to build more spending.

He said no, it's going to build a good development.

And I said, Okay, look at the statistic states we have now and ask yourself how many of these statistic states are productive and are valuable economically.

Seeing the problem that you have is that a.

Lot of these states are not coming out economically.

They're not through jasy.

I mean, if we want to look at these six geo political zones and they were coming into the less the Southwest and all of that.

We say that.

Legos is one of the states, Legos who bun. It's one of the states that are producing and are making money.

And are valuable economically. We look at the southeast, and then you know, all these political zooms.

We can actually point out the states that are valuable economically.

What are going to the arrest where all this is in states.

Are not making enough money for the nation. Why do you want to create more that it wants it? And then this more that it wants it?

Like I heard you.

Saying earlier, cal there will be more governors, there will be more National Assembly members, there will be you.

Know, more local governments, more.

Money to spend, more money to feed these governments and offices.

What then happens to the people. And then the government, as we all see, are not even supporting in fact, from the.

Way it is, they're not in literally supporting manufacturing companies in this they're not really helping matters.

They're not even helping to see that.

Okay, these little agreement is starting out this business.

You're not trying to.

See that this manufacturing business guy grows to a point.

That is becoming economical valuable to the nations. So the more this happens, the more we have, like you said, inflations.

If we look at China, China can actually have an inflation, but you will see because they are producing on a turky. They are producing and they are the more of the explotation. That is one of the things people to be said when he was commencing, we are more of consumers than producers.

We're not producing. So when we're not producing, we are losing. Today. Look at all the USA, no matter what they do, the maganizations they need, they are strong enough knowing.

That they have people who are providing.

For their Indian nation. So this is the problem we are having.

And then our governments, we don't have an accountability system where we can hold this good and tell them, look at what you're doing.

You're strending far too much. We don't know. We don't have that system where.

We can call them to order, where we can displace them until this.

Thing are doing. It's just supposed to be done.

I'm in Calaba current plan now and I was hurt than in Caliber.

You know, there were companies, there were businesses that was going on and everything was going swietly. And then people then were not really much on you know, trading, they were on. Once we Vinish school, you enter one company, I'm going to start working. Now here's the issue. The government has placed a whole lot of tax that have pushed these company out of caliber. Now everybody is trying

And because we don't have any.

Company that it's producing effectively for us, we can't fight it.

So the inflation will surely touch everybody. If we surely touch everybody. Thank you very much.

Interesting take ye do your echo? All right? Thanks guys, appreciate the conversation. Let me get the name right, I both s talent talent. How are you doing.

I'm very well, I'm very well. Thanks for bringing me up. I do right. I do follow your your communications.

On x I.

I genuinely respect your takes on different economic aspects of what's going in the country. I do have like some interesting takes as well.

I just tend to be corrected. But again this is placed on my personal observation.

Again, just try being interpreted from some you know, moun economic lenses as well. So one of the things I'm noticed with a Nigerian market, like you know, no market is perfect. But again the coal is to try to show your market to be as you know, close to perfect as possible. But like, one of the things that happens is very well in nagerial market is high level collision.

And Nigeria, I remember the time we banned for your foreign products.

You would expect, oh, now that the foreign product is banned, there are the competition, competition within the local products, like farmers going there. Again, Let's let's not focus on insecurity for now, because at this time there.

Was no security was not the way it is right now. So they would expect, like the price of rice to go down in this moment.

But what you see happen is, oh, there is no there is no longer it's no competition coming in. You see local local producers colleade and ramp up the price. I feel like that collision has a way of keeping price is high. And one of the trends have noticed overtime and nigineier is price often doesn't go down again. Sometimes it's it's based on the instability in the market because of like cost of production could go up in

So this is what this is why I says it.

So I do know the sibling has been producing like a lot of money, and I'm pumping into the economy. But then again, when you look at the money we spend paying our politicians, it takes almost half of our international object Then when you look at the logic, it looks like we may have so much money in the economy, but the most most of the money belongs like most of the money it's been a house in the account of like less than ten percent of the alternation of

So you know, there's sup called Paretos principle that means that there's always eighty twenty. So in any economy you go to on Earth, not just like you are. Any economy, the very minority are going to hold the economic world of the majority in any economy you go to so and it's measured in economics, it's something called the Genie coefficient gi n I Geni coefficient. You can see how much the income is spread out in the economy in Nigeria's case is large. You go to lecky, you see

Would prefer to use community for example, think this produce the Ngeria. Like let's say right, so this is one of the stile.

We don't present enough. That's the problem with right. So if you look at any right, look in my in my village, Gary is almost free. But once you leave my village, Gary starts to add prices. From my village to a bar to legalus, the price starts to go higher. Why logistics. It's not the price of Gary that is going high. It's the price of storage, the price of fuel, the price of financing all that, that's whats the prize

That's fair, that's fair. So like in the end, that's to move on, to move forward.

We find ourselves to tie back to the government to make not not really good.

Yes, I agree with you that the government has got to get out of the way. Make the policy, then get out of the way. Nigerian's are naturally entrepreneurial. In many societies, the people are not entrepreneurial. In Nigeria, people are entrepreneurial or like Singaporeans or like the Chinese. So made the laws, get out of the way, then police what's going on and then the people will take over. Hollywood.

Say that's thank you.

You're welcome, Marcone, Ali Lu food hiding sir.

Yeah, and beliven everyone. So I think I've listened to mostly. I think limiteds are ptally given the most balanced.

Submissions on this.

So first we need to talk contextualize the kind of.

Inflation that we are experiencing in Nigeria.

It's a cost to push inflation and because of that, we need to also understand what is actually increasing cost of production our inflation baskets. Fifty percent of our inflation baskets is food and beverages, So what is driving the inflation of of food prices?

In security? The government is already tackling that.

We have I energy costs, you know, I I for a course, transport because of the subsidiary removal. Like like Carlo also said, I have lot just six problems, you know, in terms of supplying. So now for me, we need to look at the direction of the government and not to look at them depends that we're going through because of the reforms. It is not a switch that you put off and on and when you switch it on, all our.

Problems going away.

No, and these are problems that have been there for close to sixty years. So for me, the acturn of the government is well known now. And what investors need be local or finding is predictable predictability. So if investors are able to predict outcomes, then there will be more confident in investing. And I think that is the position of this government. And someone talked about ways, our means now twenty three how to fund infrastructure, our projects and all.

You know, lenders have a very very low distap for tite.

So when we talk of you know, when a productive when a productive one not productive, it's an indictment on us and not an indictment on the government personage. Now, also, were also need to realize that the government, and that is why I do not believe that the creation that one news states does not have its own Plus.

You know, in any country, the government is the largest spender and also just the employer of labor.

So I do not believe that the government does gonna have a duty.

To increase.

It's a number of employees. I do not believe that the government do not increase in size.

However, yeah, however, yes, however, I also do.

Not believe that we have a spending problem. I think we have more. We have more. We have a new problem than a spending problem. And I can give you a very.

Small analogy Informusta have your man that is and in eighteen thousand and are and he has four kids.

It's a revenue problem.

There's nothing there is he can't there's he can't have any savings from that. There's there's no spending he wants to cost that will not affect.

It's not out of living.

So for me then here has a revenue problem. The revenue problem is being tackled by this administration that the family, believing the fact is increasing to the states on a monthly basis, who are able to reduce our depths to revenue ratio from about nineteen percent to about sixty four percent.

Now, so for me that I try the.

Government is taken is quite interesting. The exonomic out look for John twenty five is extremely positive. Will must also remain optimistic. However, I believe that it is school a bit. I believe that it could be done faster.

But I believe that.

John johny five is also going to be very great here for people who are going to look at the opportunities than having a feeling of and on an off switch where oh, if you don't put it on all of our problems with are you deminded this one?

Thank you?

Yeah, it's a lot, a lot there to unpack, a lot there to unpack. If a family of four ends, let's even say fifty thousand, it's a revenue problem. I agree. What happens when you give that family of four extra fifty thousand, that's when we now know if it's a spending problem or a revenue problem. So this family ends fifty thousand, they are five of them, revenue problem. The family now gets a new fifty thousand revenue. The family take that money and invest in SyRI a farm or

Mean by that?

Are you asking government to start owning businesses?

No, I'm asking the government to create an enabling environment where the private sector can generate the tax revenues for the business apart from payroll taxes. In Nigeria, the ID is perro what okay, So let me listen. You only listen. I can listen to taxes for you.

Don't hold on?

That's what that's what. Let's use Lego as an example.

Lego says, present listens that what do I actually even collecting?

Is about this legal twenty percent of you know in terms.

Of pay is that on twenty percent of your potentials? So if Lego said, is just collecting twenty percent of what can potentially collect?

I you agree with me? You agree with me?

Yeah, hold on, I'm good to lade with this point.

So potentially you can collect twenty percent and you can't define that as woman is we would say that potentially.

Perhaps we have a lot of task players that we've.

Not been able to capture that are existing, that are aenning money. Perhaps you can also say, oh, potentially if you create more businesses, if are able to create more businesses, then potentially we can end this more so, it depends on what perspective you're looking at it from.

So for me, like I you know, like you said, which.

I don't agree with you, it is always going to form a major talk. Sermi is on a five person of any states idea in Nigia. So what you want to do, like your studies about crazy and every environment and you know, the creation of an enabling environment also be defined. So in terms of roads, are you building more roads, are you building plants?

Let's just energin market like, let's.

Just see it.

So so we just say creating an enabling environment. And I think this is the problem that men of our governors have. We just use our blanketed m a say create an environment. They did not understand what remain by creating.

An enable environment.

Look, I cannot state, for instance, spending two point five billionaire our wedding for him, that is the definitely one of crazy and enable environment for its own people.

So for me, I think as fast like you professionals like us. Mark starts.

You know, Mark, we must.

Stop using that statement and start, you know, speaking to the real things that actually create that enabling environment. One thing that I always talk about in.

Legal Let me hang on, I think, I like, let me just make my point so you can continue. Right, So you've already agreed with me that legocy is already it's only doing twenty percent. There's the point I'm making that it's only twenty percent. You've already agreed with me on that. The point look at the eighty is state government exists with taxes. I'm not saying pay is bad. I'm saying the proportion of pay that makes up igr is is the monopoly. Pay has a monopoly on igr.

Yeah, I told you with all the things you said, but I used to say something that if there is no culture few then distance will still be an issue.

Look at the Americans and look at Europeans. A largage American is entrepreneurs.

Look at.

Almost everything you find in America. You can definitely.

Yes, just the moment, I just agree him, he said, I just am not entrepreneurs. The most entrepreneural people Nigerians come come come to America. Everything they the Africans look at Nigerians. If Nigerians go into this sector, they follow us, Kenyans, Rwandance, Gambians wherever we okay, we don't want to go to important export or have they follow? So the most enter person compart earth is a Nigerian and.

I don't agree. Fact where I go for this text on me to a blockchain. All you see Nigerians that are creating it.

A lot of put that, but personally I feel that we are not economy in terms.

Of quality quantity to population from the world entrepreneurship. It's another controversial team because you know why I'm saying this. If you look at the because Americans, for example, you find.

Out that culture places YouTube Americans do see if you feel you see people losing money Bitcoin Americans, they don't feel that shame they talk about it.

Your payers they feel that shame.

Repair then fifty thouandlars you better on you look at you're all right, you know many of them don't pusure in this investment.

So that's by the fact that you have those amenities, they don't take risks.

So I think in Nigeria, I think it's a here like if you look at the middle class, look at some of the middle class, you look at boy, you look at your gener and you look at cultural generity.

Then taking this ccility world people for example diaristic, you cannot do that. That's why you see even in terms of in the crypto market, we see liver their patterns bit coins.

It's wrong a southeast. If you look at the Southwest, it's mixed. If you look at the lookt not it's more trus agriculture. It's also in the form of so obviously the conserv enterpreneur and strategy, but general you.

Can we have the culture problem. Me I feel that it's metro problem. We see more.

It's even more than building infrastructure because we just end up like we don't end up like, we don't end up like beautiful and this did ours. This is that people are not really producing more. It's just beautiful, just travel tourism.

If we really want to change our entrepreneur we need to put the rabews deliver these those guys in front. I was arguing with somebody that says if presidents people said, okay that coult issues reform our civil service, trust, I can beat with you that Minister of Livestock is going, Minister of Money is going, and want all of the civil service. But do not allow these guys to do it. Because these guys can manage money. These guys understand the environment.

Did a horrible job of it. Not just the states, the capitals. The capital of Pasava was put there because someone's wife was from there. Many states were created because the mint was going to retire to that place and they wanted to give him a state. Many local agment in Nigeria a creatic because one Ami guy wanted to have a local goverments area in his villagious no rhyme, no reason to come and say you want more states creation.

If it's madness, it's crazy.

I couldn't all stage running budgets, all staged running definicits, all stags today, run all.

Of them good ones towards this galue. I couldn't be joking.

It's a joke. It's a joke.

Like several states, the agreements, people see it wants some prises. That's why I said that we have the cultural problem. People tell you that it brings more representation to the federal system that the manority is. Why do we see distance from the point of tribalism or from it this sentiment like what all expers and policemkers I said, Naturally, I can't even afford the present state of government I'm living.

Let's be honest. From f gis to captime.

States natural is in like five a month. I want when they borrowed money, many states do not do not make the money that then it bank branch mix. Then it bank branch makes more revenues than many states in Niger.

Will come at that.

And then the fact academic Prais Academy, Prais Lewis listed them. If you put them with some states, I'm telling you it won't in Southwestern so fun.

I mean, maybe maybe it was true, maybe maybe it was truly not maybe it was true true.

Maybe you see the how do you see me? I see I see this time and I understand why people are saying that in one more for presentation, But I think we have to look at the fact that it doesn't have to be true states representation, The states itself are liabilities. The states itself is absolutely system. States yourself

South Southeast South has developed better with IMO and a number end of story today, we just I don't know if you want to go there. So no more states were done. As a matter of I we go to If you want more replentation, push for parliamentary system, then create more councils. You know you can have one ten thousand constituencies, install every first have ten thousand constituencies and

You and you so much for the educations over our life. So I'm going to mix reports.

So firstly, I remember I think it's space indeed about three years, but I remember you give an analogy on We're you know, the.

Government can create a system. We're instead of these private companies.

The stars ready, they use the tax to create infrastructure for that state to ensure, you know, things go soon.

Because that's the two for example, that pass system they get the government.

The government gives them like I don't know if you say tax credit does the words used were? They use that more the you know, the view the roots for the states. They be the good will with the states. While over time the money that they ought to be paying for taxes the government, they use that to the government, you know, takes the revenue being generated from the railway gooles for that taxes.

So that's just so I think that system can work. And saying Nigeria Nigerians are not are not are not entrepreneurs, I think it's one.

Of the worst statements ever because for example, me, I'm a young man.

I'm Buil twenty five years and there.

Are some things that I'm even doing right now, even with the poor stage poor net one of the worst networks in the world with no electricity, not nothing worst. He's striving to make things better. There reason most Nigerias even going into flow these days, it's because they see that it's easy.

Way because many of them have tried businesses, but the economic situation is not empowering.

Them, is not making their business work. There's the average Ebo boy today, for example, wants to do business. The average Ninia letter but wants to do business.

The problem is there is no support from anywhere. There's no support from the government to you know, to formd that their dream. Not I'm not talking about monetary now.

I'm talking about providing the basic infrastructions. If we have twenty four hours electricity today, we have settin things.

Just if even we just have tirty percent.

Of the youth, they turn better and become productive, the economy is going to boom.

I'm talking about like your like to taste, which risk and all that, you don't need to take very high risk to have reproductive economy. For example, people are basical people going into farm. They can sleep, you know, distribute their goods to several places in the world. They don't need to take big risk of I think it's even visas, venture capitals and all that area have so much money that we're talking about risks for not the average and generally wants to start the firm. The omasion you don't

A risky business. If he has a good way of transporting his roots across the country, I don't see any risk there. So that's that's the point I want to make. On one hand. Then secondly, I want to ask a question.

I think I've been doing research on the gold standard, and I understand that the good standard inflation was less predictable, right because of the real situation. Well, for example, if good is discovered and use content in a particular place, it can.

You know, affect inflation and all that board, I don't know.

I during then I think inflation was more controllable rather than this our current feart system, were the government prints money continually.

I think that's one of the arguments bitcoin proponents make.

But I know that craising of money also feels what's the word, our productivity.

We sow the US are that boomed in the US.

So I'm thinking, which is a more balanced system. We have a good standard, very inflation you know, down and not very high.

All these are our current fyard system.

Where the government continued continues printing money and we experience concy, devaluation at a very high level.

I think a great picture were somebody.

Gave an analogy said, I think it just a lima analogy said, I think you are getting stronger in nineteen ninety five.

In nineteen ninety five, it will take two men to carry fifteen the fifteen dollar of goods. It's take two men stillboards in twenty twenty four, given a five year old can't carry one hundred dollars of goods. So that's what I want to end.

Thank you. So let me answer the same question. So if you had a small business, do you want to run that small business with only your revenues from sales or do you want a credit carden carriage.

Definitely the loans boost the economy.

Yeah, so yeah, well yeah, yeah, so that's the answer.

Right.

That's why governments prints money and ditch the gold standard. When you have a gold standard, you can't print money. You are only you can only print to the amount of gold you have. So it's good because there's no inflation, but it's bad because you can't grow if you have if you have a business need Lessay Nigeria, I was doing the gold standard. We will not have Kanji Dam because we can't borrow to build Caanji Dam. We have to save money enough gold then build Kanji Dam with

Another problem without is that even when we're invested in fast structure is usually your own political lines. Yeah, argument, and you really want to invest in connect economic lines for example, we know the economic continent.

They're not you know, you know, like actual.

Functionality postings are not really in pree and you know these things also have an advantage. When you build an economic lines, you connect the country by the country, you strengthen the country security. So these are things we also need to look at because let me argue invest infrastructures. Don't argue that well the past administration.

You spect too much more. But let's be honest, what's the value on this infrastructure? What is it breaking your building infrastructure that has go to the desert where you have to look at all these things. And that's why pretty much.

I'm so excited about Dows refinery because if you look at the next in long term and the fact that it's also triggered Rabue to build a smaller one in a quiet but it's really good to integrate the country in the long term. I hope it does if it's properly implemented, because I'm hearing so many IPI people projects in different zones that will connect to So these are things that I really want.

To look at.

So many people about the peace, then talk about Usia on the economy.

The most beautiful The most beautiful airport in Nigers in Jigawa State. If if you google it now, guys, the most beautiful airport you see Niger is in Jigawa. Been there, It's beautiful. Just google it our online and I mean, I love people. But before this airport, Jigawa had a governor. I think it was the first guy samin Or. So his ownaha was his own IgM capital exponditure was he he gave Jigawa the first high speed internet in Nigeria. So before they goes got to high spined internet. The

I don't. I don't.

I don't hit no Lego States. But if you leave Lego States, if you know Lego States properly, there's only one road living that Legos that's a jota. If you go to Daughta, you go western, you're heading towards Tourgate. That road Legos to a bell Guta, Legos to Baton has been built since nineteen ninety nine, is not being completed. They will tell you it's like now, boy, it's not completed since nineteen ninety nine, so we're still building le Goes to eat bad on nineteen ninety nine. That's the

So they build the plowers to build that wall, report to bring in the limestone and coal moving up river to the to the steel plant that we built near on a chair.

The iron ore would then come from a tack bay straight to then you bring the goods in and out thrue water not through bridge, not true road. Then what he needs to import sand? That's what's cold, cooke and col and limestone are.

But what do we do?

We do the Ajacuta will put the local jack. Then we put a steal plant in Cartina because we must do feder character. We put the steal plants in the shovel. Put a steal plant in Jos. What's the connection? Is there? A real life from a showbol to Jos is the reil life from Catina to to see what? See what I'm going to with these guys. Combat airports the largest, so all many not live airports. Free trade zones. Many states in Nigeria have three free trade zones. Some have

Who know those one? One?

Many states have three two states, but a region has one. This region has got the largest market in some time. Africa Nature the largest automotive class in Africa. Navy the largest semi cluster in sometimes Africa ABBA, but it has no free trade zone in that whole region. On the last day that good Luck left office, it created the in free trade zone to add to the Guangzoo futures

Good? Calu Goodive me sir so or love me do mikell and do. Everyone here that has.

Been contributing, I've enjoyed the conversation, and ah.

It's been it's been exhilarating.

I want to come in from the point of trying to harness and synthesize all what you guys have been saying. And Calu, your your last point, A couple of points you made that is the heart of all this problem. For me, I'm an economist, so I leave spending. Spending is not bad. But our issue in Nigia is government spending has been for a long time, for decades, has been inefficient and unproductive, largely inefficient and unproductive our government spending.

So nagers want to invest, but they are scared.

If you tell if they are scared, they have trust issues, and that is because we are any climate where that doesn't.

How do I put it now? We are any climate.

We're bad actors are allowed to thrive. We're bad at tours can serve the law.

We are any climate. We're the rule of law.

Takes the bad seats in our in our collective life.

For us to get it right, we have to get our policies right. That is my point.

It is when we get our politicies right that will have development across development that comes.

Across all of Nangier.

For example, you guys have been making points and you are largely referring to Legos as if Legals is the only state in Nngier.

But our economy, like.

Legos, is the heart and soul of economic activities.

In Nangier right now, if not for the banditry and the the the terrorism that has over around, then they know who have been very, very prosperous because the note was like the notes and the middle pad was like the full basket of the nation.

But right now its that it seems like there is.

An underground work to ensure that we don't even get food in this country. And it's all of these problems, all of these problems boils down to our policies. Who are our leaders, Who are our leaders? Who are the presidents representing us? If we get our policies right, then we have leaders.

Who spend right. If you are supposed to spend on roots, if you're supposed to spend on dams.

If you're supposed to spend on tricity, if you're supposed to spend.

On our.

Lookal the finally our state owned, the final a reisold that they are producing. If you're supposed to spend in our ja quta stealing and get it working within.

Two three years if you if you have the.

Right leadership, if you have the right politicians in Anjuria, they.

Will do it.

So again again again.

You'll find that during elections when it comes to elections.

When it comes to voting, we take it like a joke.

It is due election on election day, that is when some people want to organize football matches in the streets. And then when bad at us managed to grab our we spend the four years kind of our eyes out.

Look at our.

Voter Tonal during election, just twenty seven percent American connected election.

Recently they had a turnout of six I think sixty seven or sixty six percent.

Our politics in Nigeria is very wrong and it is at the foundation of all our problems.

So please, I what I just want to to end.

I want to play with you or whatever platform you have, whatever.

Means you have to communicate to nine gans.

Please always send the message.

Across to them that they should go and vote. Fourteen should be it is.

If you tell them this a civic Priston's ability, it will look like another joke.

Tell them it is manday, so they should go and vote. Maybe if we go and vote, will.

Managed to get our leader, our politics right, managed to get the right leaders in place.

Who effects the change, the positive change that we need. On that note, I will yield demand for someone. Thank you, guys, Thank you Nigia.

Okay, Nagia, and now this is thank you so much before I go to I think the context.

Is that.

Despite our political problems econmomy problems.

There's still light because you know, you know, things I like about financial markets is that you have to have optimism. For you to be successful, you have to you have to be positive. And when I say you have to be positive, you have to look at the positive side of things.

It's a topic economy, food inflation.

You know, it's so high the areage that you spends about sixty percent always in.

Common food, a loan.

So when it's very sadful when we sieve many people not taking advantage of opportunities in Naderia market, you know, And that's why we created this piece for and Color has been doing so much on trying to preach a financial placy because, whether I like it to notes, the most important thing is how to be ready advanced. You know, while we can be trained, tantrumshgling, debating, it's how it makes an impact and that matter as most and I often.

Say that, see you guys.

Yes, while we're discussing our problems, a lot of people are doing things and quiet are making the beds because you see, if you look at the last two three years, people that are still bet on Nigeria despite the tough and colony are big winners. If you look at the Nigel and richest men, they are richer. They ad narrow evaluation and I've always argued with people. I says, see, let's do the mask. Why is the really Richard? Why is Dantis still reature?

Why is well.

Even in value time, the value times if you look at the air, the the the rice for goods, the privacy for goods is still high because they found a way of passing course through consumer I think we really need to channel our discussion and how to improve ourselves because we don't need to confront ourselves. And that's why I try to stay away from tribout discussions.

I try to stay from postcardations.

But naturally for to work, we really need to have asset to ourselves that we have differences, but would we believe in want Nigeria and as long as the years won't, we have to.

Make it work.

And that's why I say, guys, bat on people that are making things upon try and take us value system, empower yourself, go to school, take courses online, those pendal times, kids making and things like that.

That for me is the best way to really.

Become the advanced because see we can sit still the twelve million diets and we all know that if we don't have value the.

System, we don't listen to us. We can this system.

We can only listen to us if we ourselves also producing value, so that I will go to LA school.

It's all thank you. Agree with thank you, Carrol fort of consonations. So I would I will agree with some of the things Carlor have said.

But before I dive into that, going with your last comments, yes it's not good to bring the qualities or.

You know, ethnic issues in finance. But we have to also at some points called space is spaid.

Because if we are not able to speak out on some of some of the only issues, that we may not be able to get this right now. I want to speak on what Klo said on the a of it is a good one of.

Free trade zone, our ports the country see the need the country Nigeria.

So it said, Yah, it's.

Need to be set in the food with the way the unit is to do some of the national assets on your first structure.

In the country.

Right in Legos, we have the Upper Pact Complex Ports complex which is the main port. We have tea talent, We have my two ports. We have now three trade zone lectly free trade zone in one six right now. Yeah, we have only reports and protaponts.

We have wor reports.

We have a bad port, we have furnature. You known ports. It is small ports. You know. Now you you ask yourself something.

You can come here and.

Say that, oh, neport has been working for a while, he has.

Been there all alone. Why are people not using the ports now? I don't know about reason before.

If you're in the US or you're around the world, are you engaged if you think of probably you know to run your content or if you're doing a car or rural open ship shipment and your sheep in complete?

You know when if you're used from shipping compact patter before.

Once you go to right here to.

Nigeria, the only ports you will see in the drop down list is thin and a Papa pot.

You can't you can't go to any You can't do anything. I don't know about recently, but when I used to do shipping into Nigeria.

You can't go to any shipping company or working with any ship in compact patter and you you you select Nigeria as its lake on and you will see or let you see Calaba.

You will see or you want to see them. It is only least true that you can see. So where? Why why is that the case?

Why can't I stay in the US maybe Gavaston in Texas and select my basiness to bet or Calaba if they are actually walking because others.

Have been mad or it is you people that I'm not using the port. It's like you know that I'm not using the people that are in the southeast. Why can't they go I'm.

Through the appoint in Calaba or in in the waing is because is anybody stopping them?

I recall when Carlo was treating a bottle of distance those who are some of the comments that are covenant in this comments. Is everybody stopping you from using reports or on their ports or kind of reports?

But sit in China or Corea, I want to shift in those ports and see whether these those sports are you doing?

Billing poo for you to even select what memory happens is all what all the ships come to? Upper particle? People now who move using small as sheep or whatever moving to or I don't think I don't think you can see they.

I don't know how it.

Has changed recently in the last one, I'm.

Happier or what I'm telling you before now those block ports are not available for destination and some of these things are for you know, is because that's why I said that we are a second the truths as a country. What stuffs our presidents, our leaders to say? They say, though that has been given to on to upper pack tinker, why don't you why don't you make all that costs for wark.

So that anywhere in the work people can select it really from forts. And that's it and the deal.

Even if even if we know that almost all the sheeps that are coming from the US, all of them go through all the Aguran countries, they go to.

Better republic as the Otul when when they're finishing to do they will talking thinking when they fish from that the way they will be moving.

Why don't they?

Why don't they move all your way even to they all your way to Colaback?

Why would he?

Why would everything is proper, thinker proper. It's not that you will not leaders were as to be able to take taste if you want to.

Go to Klaba or you want to go to Worry or you want to go to one. We're not talking to myself the truth. Yeah, I feel that there is.

It's a Debreaks attempts to make such in places in the country.

Actually he just to keep it goes off some advantage over the orders. It is. It's that that's song we've seen you haven't seen it. I think in that first or whatever.

Okay, that's that's two percent, since two percent of the old disciplement on then as a comunity until I end up.

In the South East and south south. So Robot, every businessman.

That I use this as a port, they are y, yeah, Goodena doesn't.

End up in legal it's also always move or you move somewhere else.

Yeah, I think I think the points. But let's tie this back into the the spending we're talking about. I think Caliber Port, Worry Port, Calabaras wants dredging. I think that's an issue with with with Caluba port treading because it's in a stilled area. He needs consistent treading, which we can afford. The one in Worry they've dredged it. But the guy I read this paper. The notice I read said they still don't have these big ships. Why you don't you see those ships coming to those other ports?

Okay, Cayl, thank you very much. Well, what I want to say is this. You know, when we talk about the state government.

And one of your previous spaces I could remember who we do was hammering why is the government of fair RIVERSTD not doing anything about day on their part calabaa.

That they're doing and the other We see the problem in Nigeria most times.

I look at it that the people we've had as leaders, we are electing fools, people who can.

Not think straight. Let's language language, Okay, no problem, because this is the problem. We keep on praising Lego state governments.

For what is going on in Legos. That's not how it works. Imagine if they cross Reversted government decides to invest.

In calaber Port.

What Caliber Port would do is to serve this south, south and the southeast. The government will be targeting the nature because of the amount of goods that are coming into our nature.

They want to take it over from legals. But do you know what the problem?

What the problem will be the East West Road, which is the federal government route is in a terrible state.

Big trucks cannot lie that route. So you say that at the end of the day, if.

The Cross River state governments invents huge amounts of money in that port, they will not be able to recoup it because the Ownator and other parts of southeast which is the target, is not accessible.

So most times we blame steed governments.

Do you know that in keep States they produce large amounts of tomatos and rice? But now we keep on talking about the Keepy State government why they're not making enough money. They are collecting money from legos and are sending it to the goose tomatos and rice that have been produced in Keepy State and mot get to legos, they cannot get to our nature, They cannot get to our back, They cannot get to a budget where the consumption is needed. So how do they even get back

And the worst about it is.

The way we spend We're talking about East Westwood, We're talking about legosy about the expressway. See what is happening in Legos. Let's give it time except we diversify and we make other paths of Nigeria a productive by connecting them with rails and good roots. And if we continue like this, Legos will get overwhelmed. That at the moment all those trucks taking containers to our nature from Legos, they are having big challenge in billying the papers.

Express rood the pipers in Belli is in a terrible shape.

Trucks are falling down, containers are falling down on daily basis. So what happens some people are.

Closing shop in more Nature going to Legos.

Now posess that leg Gos get over crowded and they can't even make profit.

What would they do is it that they leave the country or they go out of business.

So until we begin to do the right thing connect infrastructure, all these problems, some costs cannot be effective airpoint.

States can produce.

Gary, but they produce Gary and Gary get sports in their states.

They can't even transport it out before it gets to an um, before it gets to evening.

Look that it's very close to the rest of them as sports.

So except we begin to fix the reil lines, connect them to the right places, fix the road.

We're doing those to roads. When East Westwood is not working.

We got to move on. Yeah, I think if you made the point, it's very very clear. Guys, nearly three hours spent. Let us call it. Call today, and we're gonna get cool. I've got cool, We've got vers neck, and then we'll get Magid and then we just call today. Just three guys that I hear, I do apologize three hours and it's a partially your top because it's our money, is our tax money, and we want to have this one trillion economy. President has has has promised the way

Yeah?

Go ahead? Yes, what's right? You take your audio upper pitch. You're gonna take us home. You're gonna be last weaker. Yeah, your audience kind of low. Your audio is low. Yeah, try again. If not, you can run it up.

Live.

So yeah, audi is very low, Bro, I can't hear. You're very very low. Your audience very low. I think it's a t Yeah. I think it's been a day, right, three hours, three hours here basically talking about things that are passionate for us. We thought we even went through investments and all that, but the the the summary is still the same. We are not spending and investing in the most productive way we could do it. Better. You know, We know the government has a lot it has to take.