Let's Talk Subsidies, Devaluation and Your Wallet

Another spaces with me kalu Aja, that's my name, and of course every weekend we try to do talk about the economy, personal finance and of course how it affects your wallets. We want to make it personal to you. Right, we pick a topic, how does it affect you personal? There is no bigger topic this week if you are living in Nigeria or have business in Nigeria, then the announcement by the President that the substitute has gone.

So lots of folks have focused around the issue of subsidy and why what all that means? And also during the week we heard the Central Bank of Nigerent was moving towards this should we say single interest rates or single exchange rates? Sorry? So what does all that mean? What does it mean for your wallet? I think it's very important that we spect well understand what does two issues mean. I eat, the removal of the subsidy and of course a

translation to a single exchange rate. So to be very very simplistic, right, what is a subsidy? Let's start from there. When you say you are subsidizing a price, that means the surprise, but the market cannot pay that price, or she would say the consumers cannot pay that price. Hence, you subsidize that price so that the consumers can afford the price, which means that it's a regulated price, a federal or federation regulated price. In

Nigeria's case, the retail price you pay at the pumps is regulated. So everything station all across Nigeria is mandated not to sell above that price. They can go below, but they cannot sell above that price. But that price is lower than the market price of petrol if the same filic station had gone to buy petrol outside the NNPC system. So wherever you get your PMS, the federal government basically says you want to sell your PMS at this price.

Now let's call that price one hundred. But if you then get your PMS at two hundred, the federal government would then pay you one hundred. That's the subsidy one hundred. The subsidy has nothing to do with where it is refined, or how it is transported, or how it is start. The

subsidy really has to do with the regulation of the retail prices. Hence, if you're a good retail price, you don't get a difference between the federal government price and the market price, if you take away the subsidy, what you are simply doing is so you're saying there's no longer a regulated price. So once you remove the regulation of prices, then in essence, there's only one price in the market, ie the market price. That's what subtid remove

all means. It's the same thing. But the central bank and the exchange rate of the naira. If you fix the exchange rate of the nihra, which is what the central bank has done, which what we call capital controls. If you fix the exchanges of the nihra, to say, one dollar is going to give you four sixty four nira. If you do that right, what you're essentially saying is that the market price, which is a seventh fifty, does no longer apply. That the only price the central bank will

buy and sell currency to you is the four fifty four. That's a subsidy, so you are subsidizing it from seven fifty to four fifty. So if you say you want to do a single exchange rate, all the setter back is scenes that are going to take it with the subsidy. They're going to take it with the regulated price, which is that four hundred fifty four orbit call then affix price. If they take it away, then all you have

left is the market price, no more regulated price. So essentially the strategy of the policy that we're announced is a removal of regulated prices for dollar for pms. And there might be more that they're going to take away, right, They're going to take away a lot more than just the price for for pms and for the for dollar, But that's essentially what they're saying. So whatever name you call it, that's why you see the argument is the price

increases, the modulation is a subsidy, pricey, It doesn't matter. Focus on that single thing that once you take it with the regulation or once you introduce the regulated prices right or you take it away, all you have done is to simply say that that price is now market driving. Vote for pms, vote for for for dollar. That's essentially where we are right now. So the question now is now, what's the effect on your wallet? Or

before let's what's affective the wallet? Clearly there's going to be an increase in your cost of living because when you say the market price, the market price can go up and the market price can come down. What makes the market price go up? And down has to do with the price, the demand and supply. If there is more supply, prices go down. If there's less supply, prices go up. It's that's simple. So when PMS today is five hundred plus, it's simply because there is no supply, end of

story. If the supply of PMS goes up, then the price will come down. The supply of PMS is predicated on the price of crude oil, not on the refinery. So again that the idea that the Danguti refinery is going to reduce or it's going to amminurate the prices of the retail pumps, it's not really, it's far fetched. You would remove the shipping, you would remove the dumorage. All those costs are associated with bringing in PMS from

seeing the Netherlands to Nigeria. That would go away. But the price of PMS is based on the price of crude oil. It doesn't matter whatever price don got it pays. If he pays in naira or dollars is immaterial. What matters is is he paying for the PMS for the crude oil in a subsidy or not, Which means cruel today is about let's just say eighty dollars. Is done going to pay fifty dollars or is he going to pay eighty dollars. That's the question doesn't matter if he pays in nirah or dollars.

If you pay make him pay in naira and he's buying it at the real price i e eighty dollars, then he would refine your PMS at eighty dollars plus. But if you give him a subsidy, then he can refine at that subsidy plus. That's the real determinant of the retail president Nigeria. The price that Dante will pay for the internationally priced crude oil, which means that the subs they say it's gone, it might not be gone depending on what price dan Gote pays. Right, that's the powerway of no player off.

What price would he pay, not the currency the price if he pays in dollar or nia, but what price is he going to pay at eighty dollars or is you gonna pay at a subsidized dollar price? That's really will determine the final product. Remember we're taking it with the government price and we're allowing the market to the intermined prices. Market prices go up and down with demand and supply. So right now there's limited supply because only an NPC down the

road. If more players come in, you might see prices fall down the road. Same thing with the dollar. Dollar is seven hundred and fifty Nia to one, not because that's the real exchange rate, but because there's really only one supplier, the Central Bank of Nigeria. And why is the only one supplier Because Central Bank of Niger has said it wants to buy your dollar

at four hundred and fifty regulated price. Nobody's gonna do that. If you get dollars from your cousin in America, you go to the streets and you sell it for seven fifty. That's what's going on. But if the central bank says we're removing the regulative price withness the central bank, I eat, the commercial banks will buy your dollars from you at the market price, which

is about seven fifty today. What you would actually see that there will be an increase in the supply of dollars in the system and that will make the price of dollars I eat dollars four. So the devaluation really ironically might cause the nira to gain value exactly what the scenson is trying to avoid by fixing. So when your job, if you have a child and you chel your child don't talk to TV, what does the child do the child of the

television telling Nigerian do not hold dollars. All the Nigerians do the whole dollars. But if you make dollars available to everybody, if you want dollars at the market price, go get it. You will say there will be a fall in the demand for dollars. Why would I hold dollars if I'm not going to travel, if I'm not staying in Nigeria. But I know that if I want to travel in three months or six months, I can even go to an ATM, put my card in and get dollars on that ATM

as long as I am paying the market price. Then why would I want to hold dollars in my domor accounts? It doesn't make any sense to just take my Nira converted to dollars and just keep your domor account any nothing. It doesn't make any sense. So all the domb account folks you see will sell their domor account because it's wasting. It's just there, it's wasting. There are no interest from it. It's in the dom account because the Nira

is not properly prized. Simply buying dollars and holding it has been the best investment rick that I've made in the last eight years. That's why Pool had keep dom accounts. If you buy a dollar and you have kept it, one dollar was one sixteen and you saw it when dollar was some fifty. Look at the rate of return. No return baits that none And that's why

you have dom accounts and people holding dollars. But if you go to America, nobody holds pounds or euros in America because they can easily get it if they want to travel. The price is not fixed, but the FED because it's not a peg. They don't have a peg, so you're not buy dollars. You go to your bank, you require giving the price and you pay same way. If you go to the UK, no one holds dollars. Why would a hold dollars. They don't spend dollars, but if they

want dollars, they can go and buy at the market price. The reason why you don't have n dollars everywhere in Nigeria is because there's a regulated prize for that dollar in the price was at the market rate, it would be available and only the folks that need dollar would buy or would go get it. So with talked about the subsidy. What it means, we'll set the subsidy is really, really, really a removal of reluited prices. We'll then

talked about the dollar the same way. It's the removal of regular prices. Finally, what does it mean for your wallet? Your costs are going to go up. Guys, sorry, your costs are going to go up because most of your food is important. Your PMS for now is important. That might change. Look at the things you spend money on. Food is sixty eight percent of your budget. It's important, right, most of it your rents to build the homes, your the iron, the nails, most persons

are important. Education is local rights. Your teachers are all local here. But the tools, those things you pay for abroad, a sec approachnal stop is important. The points I'm making right, The bulk of Nigeria, Nigeria as a whole exports more than she imports. But if you break down that that report were spot more crude oil and we import a lot of things that

we shouldn't be important, like sparkling water. That is feeding local inflation because you bring those things in like dst you guys wat ds, you watch arsenaw you pay for that in dollars. So once you watch ars now you are important. That's just the way it works. So if you don't cut down on the import, your costs are going to go up. This means that

this is a great opportunity for anyone that wants to do import substitution. Anything you can make locally to avoid the cost of the dollar, they are going to make profit, right, which means it there's mellow, there's millow abroad, there's millow Nigeria. The millow in Nigeria was going to cost you less than the millow abroad because you are making it here and you are avoiding the dollar. So anything at all that you make locally avoiding you converting to dollars

or important with dollars, that's going to make money for you. So big opportunity there for everyone in terms of import substitution. You're costs are going to go up, no mistakes about it. We take us to the final point so we can all talk, right, you cannot. This is the government of Nigeria. You cannot increase the costs of everybody in Nigeria via the removal of PMS prices and the removal of the dollar exchange rate without giving a safety

net and a good sitty net is time. You cannot increase costs by three hundred percent in twenty four hours, even in America. It's not done in any economy. Three hundred percent increases a shock to the system, and no one can take that shot to the system. It's just not possible. So you either spread it over time, or you increase or reduce a shock by increasing revenues. I either the incomes of Nigeria's either you give najeras a tax

cut or you increase our salaries. But you simply can't say something is gone. Costs go up to hundred percent and it is what it is. That's not going to happen when the economy will grind to a halt. Why because people will have gone to spend all the money you spend this last week buying pmis. It's money you are might to buy something else. Another thing is suffering. So if you don't buy food, the farmers suffer because you bought petrol. So you know it's a circle, your n only limited amount of

money. A comma mix is a subject of choice. So if you don't buy food and you buy PMAs, food suffers. If you don't pay rent and buy PMAs, your landlord suffers, and that's basically I might take. So let's get the guys in here. I hope guys can hear me. So I've got to have bright betore your bright. What's on your mind? Houp, you can speak? Go ahead, so, hey, I'm very well, thank you so much. Bright. Let me get your order to go up a bit? Bright? Your audience kind of low? Can I

get your order to go up a bit? I can hear you, but just louder. Yeah, that would work. I can hear you perfectly, just louder. Go ahead. Yes, okay. Um, it's a reality we have to leave worth. But my my, my concern, like you said, um, is there any way that can be relieved as we have to cut down on certain things that we do. We have to put down um um, but I think that the politicians have gone because of course the

so cities are from fluids. We're playing for dollars. Your bays obviously on dollars you're paying some video on m as so at the end of today to

edges. So what I think, um that if you take out one then allowed although more pole so that I like license only end a piece because according to any empty auto importably of what because you're but then even if they make it hard, even if they make mood import now, I don't think anybody will want more now and perhaps they want to put that got into starts rolling now is prout then before then as it's just on our with So you're saying

physically, so so what you say that they should that maybe don't they don't the fuel want and left the exchange you want to run in most subsidies on fuel. But the same time you understand understand because for me you're taking out of the dollar is still a r you understand, correct, I do single you're gonna have single way you said you're taking the other one. There's the

room for all these nanigans that we're doing a year. So I expect that they stick out the other one so that you can balance the people who are scared the black market to buy the troll to import then come back at them to sell it on that so they abso hear that maybe when I go to buy now before I control our government with a increasing visual will be on the av Yeah you said again, Yeah, then again is that where we're talking about a policy we have not seen. That's the other thing again that it's

difficult for us to talk about right. All we are talking about it is based on the pronunciation by the present saying something is gone. The NNPC has come out. At the end, I watch the NNPC CEOs interview or in on our right, what's very detailed. He gave a lot of background that allows us even talk one The one he did on channel is okay, is morful. But if you go to channels the one he did with channels the next day, the next day, or the evening of that same day,

you will use see the different. Yes, the evening of that same day. It's a care You know, before we were saying that Dancle day is gonna get in Nia. You're gonna tell it to him in Nia, which allows the pride not to go from um to go high. But in that interview is gonna buy in Dancin buying crude from like any other. But the only different here at this time is that all the other commodities that were allowing

to wait the way they're all gouldn't be local? Who quiet that the so so so so so he cut just because so he contemned that Dangle is gonna buy at the market price of PMS. Yes, he's gonna buy in donors in yp does well, he said, because she asking how to buy? Is getting me? Are gonna think? Said? Of course the same dollar he's getting. Every other person gets that the same way he's gonna get. You know what's gonna be what the advantage is that there will be many people

doing in the same business. But the important that time because we're gonna have a sing good um exchange ready to do that. When there is more in the market, a lot of people will go and buy people that will not reduce the price. Do not start working between when price goes and when it comes down. Gotcha so so so, just to be clear, Just just to be clear, he's conferring that Dangles is going to buy at the market price, no subsidy, yes, so so so that goes back to the

point I'm making to the last week. I was the guy I was arguing about it's going to buy nira or it doesn't matter the currency. He buys that. Yeah. What what matters is the price is thing? Yeah, okay, So if if he's paying full market price, that means subsidy is gone. That what it means to subsidy is gone with me. And what's what that means is that there's no regulated price anymore. So you can bring in your you can bring in your product and sell at any price you want.

You can go lower, you can go higher. So look at it this way. Let me give you a scenario. Let me put this around for you. Right, Julius Beggar gets contracts to build roads in Nigeria right right now, is being paid in naira. They want dollars, but they're paid in naira. So what do they do? They export cashoe knots from Nigeria abroad. That how they get that dollars Angeles Beggar. So they export cashoe knots. That's just beggar to get yeah, to get dollars. Good,

what they want. What Beggar can do now is to go to take cashoe from Nigeria exported to Vietnam, then go to Chicago and buy PMS or whatever in the world and bring it back to Nigeria. They don't need. Yeah, they don't need dollars. Right now, the Indians are buying discounted Russian diesel and selling back exactly. This is the point we'll make it because and Beggar can bring that that PMS into Nigeria and sell at any price it

wants to get this. Yeah, so it gets it, gets paid one hundred million naira, It takes one hundred and buys cashot of amon Era, it exports it out, it gets dollars, uses the same dollars to buy the diesel, and it imports the diesel backt to Nigeria and sells for one fifty million. So it's made fifty million on that trade, just for example. Right because right now there's no more regulative project can sell higher or lower.

So this is the market that we're going to go to. So long term, the market price of crude and trade would determine the price at the pump, not the regulative price. Long term, it might be better because remember is going to sell order condensates byproduct of the of the pay of crude oil. That would allow him to subsidize his own refinance. Even if it makes a loss on PMS, he makes a profit on the other Yeah, and this is this goes back to the failure of the of the Nigerian Federation

not feder federation. When you have crude that you say, why can't the poor nager enjoy cheap petrol? They're right, as a Nigerian because you live in this country and God has blessest country. What a bonus of cloud, you should get a subsidy, they said, petrol is no. But if we had run our refineries properly, we would have made a loss locally on

PMS but covered it up with other byproducts. The Dangote refinery, the dango Tesque fertilizer plant quote and quote should have been an NPC fasilistics right and I they had made profits on fertilizer, then they would have able to afford the subsidy. The subsidy is because the federation has failed to expand the value chain of crude oil. So the subthing looks looks like a lot. There is no economy I change anyone show me any economy that does not subsidize something for

assistance. That's none. If good that, I've probably give my argument. And you think this is one other things. One of the problems I have was a part of that part of the world that I am. You see, we don't want to push the narrative, push that narrative like that's how it worked in other places. You remember doing this, Remember that because the British confort and all of them want to give him debates on guards, especially during winter. To give you a backup focus in America, prove the packs

on the pms and also gas, isn't it true? True? What do you call that something? What do you call that? All? Right? Good points? Good points? You see. Another thing I also know that this is gonna do, is that we actually need to know the actually that were consuming at. We need to know that we don't need so again again first between, we don't need to know that. No one cares like do

you want more? How much cook sails? No? First, first let me nobody they tells amount of gardian age, and no one wants to know how much colors. So the Nigeria, if you can afford it, go and pay for it. If Camel Roon can afford to pay for any piece

to come and buy, we don't care whoever can afford to buy. What they're trying to do is that none that the prizes are related that allowed to the market to determine they want to go into those countries to build their own terminal so that they can sell they can export to that same countries by the other And he said on the other two refineries, they one will be ready by December. He didn't mention which one, but he said one of them will be ready by December, the other already by mid of next year.

So, like I said, it's the circle that we have to go through. But I think this plan will be better one. I will, I will, we will, we will that. Okay, that's hopeful. You remember your um, I'm town in legals four years between twenty twelve. I'm that's gonna. I think I lost first. Okay, first, let first, let me pause. I think I lost you all. I meant get me the media in here to get this perspective as well, if you can hear me. First, legal, I think I lost you. Let me

get me the media here to to get this perspective. Go ahead, sir, Yeah, how are you doing? Okay? Yeah, I would like to speak to this from three angles. Um, the idealistic angle, that is from awesome way back and okay, the idealistic angle from use for where we are now. And the last angle um the non idealistic, the practical angle or the practical uh probabilities of you know, stuffs that can happen.

You know if you will go you know the memory line. You you know that as far as seventy eight seventy neither as a country we will project I had you know, Okay, we're going in population, we'll be another refinery.

That's how regarded where we want. That's how that's how we got the first protacol one sorry, and later when Bevana in eighty nine ironicategory did that one with some of these seven nine then wine eighty nine Babangida feloking rules, we're going we need the bigger, really bigger um refining capacity to meet population. And we the additional of his one ten or two because one to much

way for the put second photography refinery more. You know. So I'm still talking to idealistically now, So you will expect that for a country of you know, challenged people, educative people, people who you know other portulary are working, traveling and all that. People will see what happens in other countries. You know, you can tell people in the country a single bore that do you know, like virtually has no all we're farming a gob from five

million powers per day. Idealistically you will expect, okay, but who we have, all these shall move to share. Everyone will whatever you wander on. All these people who task improve going to be people of them to build refineries. I will say. Ideally and idealistically or theoretically, you will expect the country like my dream you were not a crime scene kind of country.

You will be expect we should be doing all the two million bowels that are probably we should approved do you see should be refined full because you make more

money from exploding refined products and selling the could products. You know, and even at this time especially maybe pro spread the part spread and refined product is better than is why we will be making a killing from fine hard So that's that's idea is because but then as we were not really yeah, that's why I thought that the whole idea of the subsidy iss a tax bad on federation in afficiency. That's what's going on. Attacks we have we are paying attacks

on the inefficiency of the federation the federal states. Yeah, look a good man. That's basically That's why I had to go They from free back and talk, you know, like idealistically theoretically, so we are that's actually just going to like my online we was here for. We are paying for the inner dequoases or the criminal mindset of our rulers. Yeah, we are meant to be a bronze now you get it. We're paying for their own inner

dequaces, inefficiency, or probably their own ways largely. Yeah, you know, what do you say? Yeah, I would say, well, we'll paying again for the inner dequations that reas strong and I'm gonna say strong and contin letters like strong connection between the Myra, especially for country like Nigeria and the prom Christ you know, see take it for example. Or let's stop

idealistically in the middle. You know, let's say zim. You know, in two twelve, two thousand and twelve, you know, the dollar exchange was at one one fourteen one fifteen one sixty there about. Now, idealistically we should be produced. Is it agreed or is it's cool? Oil is if you find all, you know, whatever, we should be able to

sustain production that will be able to sustain such exchange rates. Now imagine, let's assume that we have exchanged and one hundred and fifteen dollars to a dollar or two hundred nars to a dollar, and that exchange rate between the official rate and say like else it used to be some ten fifteen years ago and we're doing a passenger and whoever that Yeah, he spread between the official rate. As a power market, you shouldn't be more than that. Let me

ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Why do you think the black market started? Why do you think a black markets started? Ask I'm asking a question, what do you think whoa largely because of not really no no, no, no, no no, not really, not really. It's very simple. Whenever you see a black market, that means there's no supply. That's it. Whenever you see a black market, there's no supply. The black market started because

there was no supply of the quote and quote subsidized dollars Nigeria. I remember I was in school when my mom used to travel. I remember this conversation where you're trying to buy dollars from someone at seven Nira. I remember in my head as a child, and she was complaining better that this guy is sending into her at seven era to one dollar. I remember, my head's just complaining that she bought it for four era. Now it's seven era. It was knew, She went on, No, I'm just telling you what

I remember, right, seven nira? Why was she buying it at seven nira instead of the one nira? It was one era tenko bo in CBN one era tenkobs buying at seven yarra. Why was she buying a seven era Because if you apply at CBN at one era tenkobo, you don't get it. That's why there's a black market. There is no black market for dollar in America, in South Africa, in UK, maybe even in Ghana. There's no black market. Why markets in countries dollars? You know, No,

you can't. You can't have a pile market. No no, no, no need it? Need it? Let way? Where is the Where is the pial markets in America? To tell me where is it? Wasn't happen. You won't have in the US. You will have in the US. You're having for example, you have it in you No, no, no, you don't. You don't have a pile of market where there's no capital controls. Pile market only comes when they are capital controls. So when the central bank says if you want one thousand, will give you a hundred,

then it black market starts. It's not just for for dollars, for anything their own. For example, now let me think of the country. Now let's beating for example, if you go to most of our into the part, it's a black market. Why if you buy foreign currencies. But see the point is they get between the official rates and the black market or power market. Okay, for example, let's say to one point two five or one point three five two dollars single dollars dollar. The pole market is

every one point three six, one point three seven. Yes, So the question is that why is there a black market? That's the question. The question is why is there a black market in that country? Why? Yeah, because not everybody will come to the bank to buy dollars exactly from people are tourists exactly from the bank. You will happen from the from the part even like for most countries. Exactly why is it all black markets in America?

Because American that's where the dollars come from. No, not because as it does come because there you can walk, you can get dollars online, you don't have to the market is available to everyone to get in and get out. No, no, no, it has not do local currency. The local currency of Ecuador is dollars. It has not do it the currency. It has to do that. The fact that there is no control. If I want to buy dollars today on my phone from a half year,

I can. Currency markets are international dollars, euros, pounds or slend dollars. They are all convertible. They are all online. If you go to China today and to do that, you can't buy dollars online. The ue is not convertible. It had not do. The currency is the availability if you want it. That's why there's no black market because you can't get it.

There's a black market in Nigeria because the central bank says, if you want dollars at four hundred fifty four, we will give you, but if you actually request, you don't get Look at the airlines are asking for dollars at four hundred and fifty four, not affect it. They don't have it. We have we have scarcity of dollars. That's the question. Why do you have scarcity? The question is why do you have the scarcity? And there's problem system as well. You don't have enough Why you don't have a

primaries as well? How do you get dollars dollars that you're supposed to have it? You don't have enough. You don't have enough, you don't have its place. You don't have enough dollars in Nigeria because you want to buy at four hundred and fifty four. If you divalded nira to eight hundred n all the guys that have dollars in bonds in the US will bring those bonds or those funny portal investments to Nigeria. It's called hot money, it's called

they will transfer to a carry trade. You know why that way? What do you mean? Want want? Simple? Right? Is a two thousand vira two dollar? Now? When you have corruption, limar system used to keep saying this corruption, it doesn't matter, it doesn't you see, the market doesn't, it doesn't matter. When Nigeria was in the in the in the JP Morgan bond index, what that meant was that if you buy an imagined bond, you are automatically buying Nigerian bonds. What was the exchange of

the nira It was very low. De Niro was very strong. Why because Nigeria was getting portfolio dollars in flu into Nigeria by default, you get it. So as the dollars are coming in. Let me give you a clear example. In twenty two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, the world experienced a global recession or seven or eight, the oil prices internationally crashed. The Nigerian GDP went up, not down. Why did they go up

because we had reserves? Why did we have reserves? Because they then se then governor threatened that if anybody tries to even attack the nira, he will flood the system with dollars and you'll lose money. And he people looked at his reserves. The guy had fought something million billion dollars and they backed off. Why can't a mainflet do the same thing today? Because people look at his reserves. It has forty his own eurobonds, his own China, his

owing every one dollars, so he can't talk. That's what the dollar is going up because there's no supply. You get the points I'm making. Seven um, remember the exchange rate at the bar market and what was was? What was it? What was the act that's highest today? Was like iron? But you could get it so again on your card. Remember it was timing nine jeria on your card. On your on your card, you will traveler brought with your card and spend dollars of how much on your card.

There was no restriction. You had a card. You would fly abroad with your card and spend dollars with your card. Today it's twenty dollars a day. Be the let me let let let me, let me get this. Guys with you, but just hang in there, let me get what you preciently. Don't go anywhere. Media m cheerful lows, high, cheerful loss. How you do it? I've kept you with cheers. What you've got

the floor Menday is still here all right, but made it so. I want to just make the point again to recollect everyone what has happened Nigeria. What Tenable wants to do is to remove the regulator price on pms and on the currency. If you take away the price, that means there's only one price. There is now only the market price. What drives market price,

demand and supply. So on a policy level, I completely agree with to noble take away the regulator price, let free market on the competition affect the prices. But this is where I think he might be getting it very wrong. You cannot shock the system with high prices and an economy like Nigeria where people and still earn eighty thousand naira a month. That's still the official minimum wage. I know most people have paid themselves more, but the official minimum

wage in Nigeria it's still thirty thousand nira. So NLC, the Nigeriable Congress, yeah it's thirty is still still I mean I did two weeks ago, I did a trend on bank salaries. I was getting screenshots. This is actual screenshots from folks that are working in a bank. These are guys that are the contract staff. So what happens in the banks is that the banks without source, say a teller to a ted party, then the tired party who would hire the teller back to the bank. You have people working in

Nigerian banks ending forty six thousand nira net. That's three dollars a day. The property rate across the world is two dollars a day. Would wear tie go to a bank, big bank? This bank is on Forbes. Yeah, this guy is this bad is on Forbes. But they're paying their tellers three dollars a day. Now that guy an in three dollars a day, how will he afford a three hundred percent increase in petroleum prices? He can't.

He can't. So what you're gonna find is, how would the policeman afford m a three percent The policeman would have gone, how would he afford three percent increase? And what are they would do that he's gonna take his dollars, his gone and demand more from you when he stops, he's gonna take to pay him money. He's going to extort money from you because he can't afford it. So it's not we're not being anti. We don't hit the point giving the present good advice. You have to do two things.

Either you give a tax cuts to Nigerias or you increase your incomes, or you do both. Your policy to well, there are many ways can do a tax cut. There are many ways to do it. If you increase, if you reduce the price of food, that's a tax cut. So if you say you reduce, you eliminate importances on food for the next sixty ninety or one to two days. Because the average Nigeria spends sixty eight percent

of his budget on food. So if you say you can bring in food into Nigeria for the next thirty ninety days at zero percent, the price of food will crash. Food is fifty one percent of Nigeria's consumer price. Indequit means that the inflation you say today at twenty two percent is based on food being expensive. So why is food expensive Because the bandits and the terrorists that around in the Middle Belt don't allow farmers to farm. Also, there's no

infrastructure right to get the food to the cities. So what you need to do is to have a plan. In the plan is going to be dropped food prices by importation meet templates it. When you destroy the bandits, we then start to build the infrastructure to reduce cost of locally generated food. So it taxs cod for that just going to be lower lower food prices. If that guy walking the bank in quote is ending his m sixty four thousand nairah a month, can buy a bag of rice at five thousand naira. That's

a subsidy right there. But there is no way if you allow that bank a boy to walk in a bank to end his sixty four k, he will steal the money and when he's in front of God. If he would tell God God, I was hungry and I stole money, how would you jail that boy? He did still going to buy cow? He said, I was hungry and I stole money. How do you jail him? He hasn't let me not talk for them social media while my brother hireding, sir, what's happening? Yeah, I used what we have seen one. Yeah.

You know, so you made a point just now about the government, you know, giving allowances for people to bring you food. You know you also go to me that look, that's all of policy. Call those where's the dollars? I ever, they will have dollars one people have dollars, Cian dollars. People have dollars. There's a dozen domar account and that you are twenty billion or so. It's not on but the Cibian. There's dollars abroad. My brother, my Brozon, is in Canada. I'll ask him

to lend me one thousand dollars. It's not Cybian money, so he will give me one thousand dollars. Are we import? Are we imported? Online?

Import? Are we import frozen frozen turkey and frozen fish? One thousand dollars from Walmart be you know for me of all those things that are temporary measures, correct, correct, you know, because they're not things that you know, into the longer term that you can use to sustain We try this thing before where all, you know, the whole thing was propom for everybody to bring itself and then at some point it becomes a majority incentive to Actually

I think for me, you know, and I mean proponent of something first, this was subside we keep on talking about as an example. You don't think he's one of the smaller things that were subsidizing as a country. I think the subsidy in Nigerias was the big men. Listen to um. This guy's you know talking a few days ago. You made very valid point, you know about the government subsidising everybody that has so many things, and this

that boddictment for me. Honest an honest government, I WoT be honest about this. What they need to do, you need listening the Culture's forum punted, but where you can attract that forum counting as ex PI was a bit of research and I actually wrote an article about this where between twenty sixteen and nineteen sixteen, seventeen eighteen nineteen four years, sixty eight billion US dollars came in to Nigeria. Yeah, and this was this, this is in former

kind of money. Who I'm Brooks. I mean people, my favorite, my brother is successible. Nothing to really do with you know, company as all structured money. Billion. Yeah, we have a government that is intentional and China easier. People wonder when it's gonna saying, wonder the people you see ruanties of young They put a certain percentage of the salary and decided who every pleasant moment. So what am I say? You know, the forty

language of every government tends to dictate how people reflect and see them. All of the sudden, I'm seeing a current speaker of House of reads the boxer. I'm saying regard to his regard recycled in cover, you know, until we are able to change all that forty language, all those wordy languages. And you're just bringing it a sample samble. You know, even though the government that has coming given with thirty five piece, I mean the lowest se

suicidist democracy, the lowest votes regarded by any incumbent. So let's people say that. Look for some reason, you know, he's there go now, and he says that too. I'm ready to do the right thing. If that would you be entirely peferent from what we're seeing. Probably one. If if I look at the subcity that you guys talked about, probably one. You don't remo subsities without plans. There's only things you don't do. It doesn't make any sense. You know. You also say you want to unify

your foreign next days you can't. We don't have money. I always says something that I'm a very big person when it comes to prastructure. If you look at that document I've talked about, and I that document says we need to point night trailer West dollars over a thirty year period every year, every year, every year, I prostructure every year to aplate to constructure for the United States years now. This is a country that all are known, all

work currently generalities in deal, and we're still wasting it sensical things. So this is where minel problem lize. When your prop you don't have enough money to develop your infrastructure. Therefore all this we get putting. Can they give a way? You know? Sometimes they can't and you want because that hope, Now, why don't you as a government, which is why there's certain people that fait certain conferents. If you're a manager, you don't how to

go revenue. This is the kind of the comment you will be learning to lead. Why don't we look for ways that we can get moneies in easy, easy way and start to focus infrastructure that can turn around food for us, like and you said, you know our CPI could inflation. This is crazy. Why don't we look for things that can help us to those things that are very good? Therefore, he brings you back to that process that recorder that that's for returns conversation. If we can attack that that's for a

return conversation in a very scruptured manner. You know they're doing it then you know sort of process that people that's where I don't transscover. So nobody's ready to put their money is where they mean? I mean, I would rather that's where I wanted. But so h why don't we find your way to attract six we can do what were the well you know, you know we said it's in all the time. When I say put on Twitter, there can't be posting things don't know. But I've told people before you can fix

exchange rate in day one. I've said it before, right, the markets react to the future. To the future, the markets react to what's going to happen, not what today to do. What's going to happen and what has happened is that I'm I think to noble was brief that we are broke. We were broke since twenty fifteen. But Harry simply paid the subsidy by printing money from the CBN and as it was leaving government, he then made

the National Assembly past that illegal printing as law. So Tunubo knows he might not be able to go there and do it again because everybody's eyes now on ways and means. People's eyes want a ways and means, so he knows he's broke. So I think he made that statement on purpose, right to see what will happen, and what will happen was what happened. People ran to the fuel pumps to bipure at the thousand nira. Then NNPACE then introduced

prices at five hundred nira to also see what to happen. All these things have been done without any legislation. Remember what I said, there is a regulated price. Has the regulated price been removed. Wasis a circular show? To me, there has to be a removal of whatever to say that. Is there a statements saying that in Nigeria today you can sell fuel at any price? Is there any statements saying that if anybody has it, please sent to us. So if you don't do that that I think there is plausible

deniability to say we haven't removed subsidy yet. To see what will happen? I O look, go back to the CYBN. De Litrous published that Cibian has developed Nia to about six hundred and eighteen or so see Santra mckima and said they have not. I thought I was an era about the CYBAN. Allow the story to play out and see what will happen. See what to

happen? What are dollars who flow into Nigeria? Because like I said, wallet, whether I like Nigeria or I don't like Nigeria, if I take a dollar today, let me let me carveet before we had all this Ukraine war thing. If you take a dollar to an American bank, they're paying you zero point two five to zero percent on your savings, So zero to zero point two fives what the American bank would pay you on your savings.

Then Ukraine war has happened. Personal happened that they are paying you as high as four five percent in America to attract an American to date for him to take his money from Apple, Apple is paying four point five percent on your phone to Nigeria. Niger has to pay that guy at least ten percent in dollar. The problem that Nigeria can pay that ten percent and still make a profit for you. And there's patriotism as well. It is possible to issue

actually issue alone alone at one percent, call it the ASPRA bond. And Nigeria's are brought to still by because to them is development. Like you said, we're sending money back for welfare, welfare. So if you go to let me give an example. I don't want to be a tribal. Most of these guys on the southeast, they build their roads, they build their power from their town unions and their contributions. That's what they do right now.

Currently, if you pass a law you say any money you influ from abroad, any dollar you eat from abroad, number one, the goth nager will pay the transfer fears of their money. So if you influen one dollar you get one dollar to your home state, that home state must you no who bonus what that home state transfer fees. That's to see the and I'm saying you won't you pay to Westernion. Won't you pay the American bank?

You pay an American bank. Now number two, that money must be useful, distill the areas the way, the roads or power or irrigation, say where it will be used. So the state's comment today will go and pass every state. When you say these are my opportunity projects, these are my projects, opportunity project that I want to have in my state, those projects will be assessed. The fund will not go to the state government. It will go to an SPV. You abroad will summon to the SPV. The

SPV will build that project on behalf of the state the same way. Pf phase or the Feller government manage for the government money the same way. So you build a road in a half year, you build power in all half year at one percent return. I would do it because I am from Nigeria. I'm not looking for the for me. It's a welfare bond. It's not the bond for me to make money. You will get the money.

But again you said, it's trust and competence. I don't have to like Nigeria to invest in Nigeria, but I would do it if you give me a pathway, verybody. Their banks are broad. You can go and buy one Chip County Bank in Atlanta. But you want Chip County Bank how much? Then tell my enginiers in Atlanta, put your dollars in that comet back in Atlanta were not transparent dollars. Put your dollars in that bank in Atlanta. In Nigeria will print the Nira based on what that bank in Atlanta has.

You now have a miranda for in exchange in Atlanta. Then when you want to you want to input, you will sell them from that bank in Atlanta. Very easy solutions. They make everything look difficult. Oh you get LIKEE says, money's not moving. The money stays where it is and there are lots of ways you can do a wall lay sing. But again it's back. This will is trust back to trust. Yeah, trust all they

wants to get in here. Let's heart. What's up? Yeah? Thanks, just a conversation the post speakers and I wanted to alight, but I think somebody is aquin. I think we have to Mike. Yeah. So first, first of all, if you understand unification of the extery system, it's not to maybe not a struggle week, maybe market efficient, good good good points, good points about the CBS official challenges that big boys and those that have pure for me, the have assets that have really created its functional

effects market and have put many in in Jupanty. So first of all, I think it's a good to. Secondly, I have a problem with relics many of us who always talk about years now you have and now you're a prison. Now you're just prob breasing teenty systems to be done to every year if you look at numbers that because for foreign education medical authority, for I

don't have a compact. That what I recorded the amount your place on foreign education in the UK through the e Big Bank who form basic education in Nigeria. So the person is the person is are we subsiding for the minority at the advantage of the rejoice because which country subservices for their prostitisens to a new pool the system greater after the opportunity. But in Nager, I think all

the substitut programs are pop for the upper musical as totally. I'm also want to open on that seat, UH the present it on the move of the SOO, on the speech that he spoke about the education of multiple activistem it was spot on because what the message is sent market has really spawned investment curiosity and that's why I've been seen so much engagement. Of course that he has from your bonds to look out for. The continuation is what does he have

to lose right now to UH to stop to press the grace? I think for me what what what you focus modes and its shuring that UM monetary policy rules. I led with scal policies in the sense that you have to quote ecagestems attitude that's on that problem. Strength of that depends. Would you want on the export so well? Well, well little and again just make the point again you're you're emphasizing the subsidy that we have in Nigeria is enjoyed by

the rich, not just individuals. Let me paint a picture for you. How do we pay subsidy? When n NPC sales crude oil, the money is paid to JP Morgan. Then JP Morgan will then credit the bank account of CBN slash NNPC. Then the Central Bank NAGER will then go to that account converted account from dollars to NIA and will then credit an NPC, who then who then credits the national d FAC. Let's us call it a FAC for now right, which means subsidy is paid by the Federation, federal states,

and local What does that mean? That means that the cars illegal state are being paid for by states like Chigawa, a boring abber that don't have cars. So if you drive a car in legals, your subsidy is being paid for by every other residents in every other state, irrespect of the fact I they have a car or not. That's the funny thing. So the poorer states are subsidi, doesn't the richer states that have cars. Because the

Federation is basically the debuting across the board. All the states are local government areas in Nigeria to pay for the subsidy, So it's an anti progressive tax. It's a tax on inefficiency. We are paying for the inefficiency of the federation, so we're paying hye feel prices. So it is good that the subsidy goes. The point is this, no economy can sustain a two hundred three hundred percent price increase it's unsustainable. I've given the example bankers are ending

sixty four thousand narra a month. How will they get to work on Monday if your chat fees have gone two times three times of Explain to me like a five year old, give me one bullet point, two bullet points. How that guy will pay for transport and still buy food. So if you work in a bank and they cannot buy food, what would he do? It's gonna steal. And as across the board, you're gonna have crime corruption because you wanted to move subsidy, so you don't. You don't kill one

problem to have another problem. So take away the subsidy. But you must put in a policy, not I don't want to hear a PMS palliative. There has to be a social safety net done for the injurience. If you are below us as an amount of money, you must have something that the government pays for. If it's to give everyone believes at the income class a card that they can enter boss for free, do it. If it's a

give them innier to enter busses for free, do it. So are the rich guys that have the jeeps pay the real price for petroleum but those guys are walking the bank that are ending seventy thousand nine a month. They have a card that they can tap and pay for bus or barty or whatever. But you simply can't say, because subsidy is corruption, which it is, we're going to take it off. If you have cancer today, cancer is going to kill you. Would you just go to your doctor and doctor says

you have cancer? So as I'm looking at you, are going to cut you open. Take no. They will prep you. They will tend to go and change your diet. They two are going to give you the special food to eat and then come back in next week or six months for your operation. Why do they prep you because if you're simply just go into the body immediately, you might actually harm the patient or than the cancer. So

we've got to have a policy. We've got to have advisors and ministers and Nigerians can listen to and ask questions and the policy can be from lated. We cannot build or increase prices because the president says subsidy is gone, whether he meant it or not. That's the way that that's why you're run the largest economy in Africa. Nine Hi don't name I've kept you waiting, So how do sir? You've got the floor? Nasim can hear me? El Nassim, Nasa Olim the question for you Oli, have a question for you

Olim and if you can hear me. When the last week I was talking to a broker, big Man, he was then that the market is reacting to the announcements by President to Noble that we're going to equalize interest rates and we're going to remove this idea of WoT pay. So the market prices went up. Of course, the empty uncle went up because they know they're going

to get their money back. Is that reaction the fact that dividend holders are anticipating the payment of the dividend or one of them asking this, Why should I ask a retail Nigerian like what the President said? Break it down from me. What indus statement makes the price of the shares go up? If South African would love it because it means that I'm getting the mone out of Nigeria. But if I'm an investor, I bought Cadbris, what INDUS statement

is making the market go up? So qu Africa and have them you look at the price right now, exacting correction. I explain it at all, al certified you're gonna love the most expressive stock that's planning because in investors used to use it to move forwards agay from the convuntry. You know it has

do listing instead because even the natural stock exchange that also in London. So what point investors do usualize that buy and descend in long term book usual from the presidents, which I think what a lot of people as saw from the agent talking betwe that and some real investors that you are anticipating the fact that your chi will have to be valued and definitely the big point you need me Tom were buying institut of side said that buy in Q one so there was

already a prepal that might likely be a Polish run. So um presidents announcements that was clouds means that competition in the energy sector coming and that was what stocks that can bring it out money gains and for that descent. So yes, it's it's a price that see that setting. Companies make a love of money from this policy and that's what investors are looking at. Both for the

entification that definitely to definitely give banks more of psyche. You know, first of all from equity side below vests that me complaining the fact that from pets pasions that trecorded, so that we definitely attract for investors coming in. It's definitely mental. Knew that that has also this commu uh afflicts looms getting the cost of bringing deputy opened us interest rates, but that also played the rule to vessels that look at the market dere to define banks can make more an

apple mont too. So I think everything investors that poison themselves any manergic stalks the spar about problems. Also we've seen black s obserdative and feeling bigger tran to present the monkey in me. I think the value will sustain except the fact that we see our rest coming week. NFC said that the boole to strike uh it's proberly could give the blue some resource of perpetiking on Friday, but it starts accumentional that carprey. I think it's very tricky because Capria at

some point feel as well as twelve there and Qman. But right now is running those to something that so one investors are looking at right now is that value stalks we might really careful cettain websites. The fact that people spend more on core items like this. But I think for me, emptying is already at record that valuable stock on the n g X and the problems that I will be banks. I think the president who try to sort that you know,

the banks are wings about one people that want to humanity. Uh deal so that you know, can you your master and stop packet so you get you know what happenst the lot of critics that that moth of you often times is when the stock market those bad you know, data shoes that last four years despite the packet bringing out positive bet the month of June has been very

perished, you know, so investors have to be question. But all lives on the president or now you please have started Steve with the labor union hands that Laborton is dead. That Laborton is dead. I heard the nothing guys and the soups guys have pulled out so that Laborton is dead. I labor guys to me and my opinions are like they are published the seeking Kim Kardashians.

That's what they are, Nita. They don't do anything. They wait for like a policy that would make that will give them publicity, and then they go to the streets. That's what they are. You don't see have you seen labor emays going to piket banks about paying an adult walker sixty four thousand ears a month? They don't do that. You see them picketing banks to say hey, why can't women have maybe one year, but tend to leave. They don't pick real labor issues. They pick all the fewer subsidient

thing because they know every every nina wants lower prices. So it helped them to boost their street cred. But what have they done. My earliest memory of labor is Adam to show Molly fighting or Bassenger because of Bassenger is going to increase fuel price. But if your price is still up, Adam summits the governor. He's now the one has known to increase fuel prices. The more so, it's just they don't do anything label guys. They just look

for oh now I feel prices gone up? People don't life price. Let's do a strike. Where were they for eight years when thirty one tree was printed? Wait? Wait, wait, wait were they when billions were borrowed that that the workers are going to pay back with higher taxes? Ware? So that lable thing to me is it to fizzle out and to go up to bid. But let me let me ask you, hum, let's come

to the The title says, subsidize the evaluation and your wallet. If I subsidize, I EI removed in the legal price prices of PMS and dollar, which is substant version go up. It affects my wallet negatively. So I pay more for petrol, I pay more for anything important, So my wallet

suffers. Are bea So this is my question. So if my wallet is suffering, I wonder what the stock market was rallying for because there's no I you makee poisive points about the banks rolling because they are going to have epex conversions, oil and gas ruling because it's going to be more competition. I get that. I want to man cart breamente boring everyday retail stock that nest

leave card breedles everyday stocks ABC transport. So I'm wondering if the economy is not set up for a massive shock because timbo is enheriting it a brooke for the government. The government is broke. There's no more ways that means it is broke. Ye good point, But you need to also understand the fact that the stock market is highly ucalized. And one of the reasons why UM's running right now is that investors give that utification of actuary system with definitive bringing

FBI. Also, you also to look at that many back stocks Nigia are largely won't buy view unities like example, if you look at next different example, uh, it's major alone by emotion national if you can discerning for example, the movie has more than the the the right is that Nagia has. Nagia has a country's perspicion in the stock market is very cool. So I

think what the will that be looking at it? The guys from the other side coming in U also very good point you said, But I think also investions are betting that the governments to this the economy equipments the economy left may people will be more at the colt. You go what the market really wants to posters and complains that players can come right now. That's about your concerns,

okay. So and again if we go back to the the whole Nadern picture, the president sits down and he's given the briefing of his balance set on his assets side, he has lots of opportunities, he has l L N G he has an NPC he has that's throughout. Taxes are like teen he can do. But the reality on his liability said is that he's owning a lot of money. He's he can head. They can't even pay June. They're gonna delay June salaries for further comment, I headed the report about

that. So he's owned a lot in his In his manifesto, he says he was going to do to the couple the price and wallet you can hop in if you have the answer. He says, gonna the couple the crude oil price from the budget, which means that his budget speeches is not gonna have benchmark. If he doesn't have a benchmark, that means if we sell oil for eighteen n eighty dollars, we're gonna spend eighty dollars. There's no excess crude again that's gonna go. Then a're gonna spend more and borrow more.

And he also said are going to print more. He also said in that manifesto, you know we did it here. People didn't listen with we analyzing man the first of the three guys. Here, he says he's going to fix the price, which is in contact what I'm seeing now he said I was going to fix the prices of agricultural product, which I heard him say, and also for petrol and the currency. So in his manifesto he says on about fixing the price for the currency for cultural prose. But now

I'm hearing him say there's gonna be a full decen' saidy yet. But I'm here there's gonna be a devaluation. So for me, this is why I want the cabinet to be announced. I want the advisors or the economic team to be announced very very early. The Nigeria needs a mist of finance or that it's going to be like and Ungs your coundre weller. Plus they share they I'll do put together confidence smart that people can follow and say, even

though they work for the president, we can believe what they're saying. I mean, Wall has made the point if you bring in the same cast of characters that we had National Assembly, the guide that is your house, your your your guide, that's your secretary, is the one that Robert stamped the printing of thirty one trillion. That guy, the one that's your head of service, signed off on the massive borrowing of the past administration. That's the

guy that's not going to run your office. So well, it was your take, because you know, the person I always see an ideal should always think about the two hundred medium plus people that the meant to govern over. And you see when I get thought of all of these spark issues, you know, the the current players, all of these guys in my views in

the past, minority of what we're talking about. You know, we have data that says he hondered a twenty hundred and thirty million Nigerians you know, live on some what's it called down thirty thousand, thirty five thousand narra you know, per month. That's a data also says very very clearly that only three point seven percent of Nigerians can spend a hundred and fifty thousand ran above.

Listen, gentlemen, well Le said that the game will they say it again putting in here at the back see that how much they can spend says you know, this was done by the World band. It says that only three point seven percent of Nigerians can spend above hundred and fifty thousand era and above per month. Three point seven percent can spend that amount permount. It

is ridiculous. Now, if you want to govern that kind of system, my brother, which is why I keep on happening about infrastructure, the first

thing you need to do is cover up all the excess. Fact. You know, there's so much you'll say, I saw all govern you know, twenty boys, lexus, lexus, all this nonsense, paramandelia, you know that or whatever it is says exit package that you know, I see all sorts of lone sense, waste, waste, you know these things just me and in my mind, the reality that I know is that these guys are

not ready to do anything about the current state of Nigeria. I can be with that for in my bottom dollar, if if, if, if you want to do something, if you're in that kind of I mean, look at this repeated, we're a very poor country. If you want to do anything in that kind of system, the first people that you should give report to and those one hundred and twenty hundred and thirty million people, how are

they meant to survive? You know, which is why a lot of us are saying, you will take out subsidy, don't you will do it in a calculated manner? True, I think I need to encourage guys Google and I imp that document is online. It was not in twenty thirteen. We went to the We weren't represented into journal that in twenty four and I think it was sited to love because um this there's this ministry that will houses it.

Now if you copulate, will see that the things online is there until we face that documents because all of this monechy policy we talk about the in their monety policies will never ever get us out of the doors in most balancing with the fiscal Now, my challenge is over the last forty fifty years we have been not that fiscal side of things. That's why whenever it raised, we see all all sorts of dams you're going and everything bosting which which which

also affects agriculture. We see, you know, family produce all of those things. People don't understand that wants you too much. You look at the bigger picture. Bigger picture says be most invest in a fiscal side. They have been people to do that. So if you look look that like you has budgeting over the years, you will always see you don't recurrent expect very high. You will see captain expectiture small and laundry. How can you build

a nation on this kind of love fided budgeting. We've twenty for years in Jersey said, you know, last few years, We've been doing this thing

for years and Litten has lost as this is the time. And that's why I go back and ACTEP saying where are the easy ways to get some amount of money invested in new prastructor that can almost turn around things like carry You always say something if if I be your people have been saying that if you take food out of the man's problem, you solve the bulk of the problem. The challenge is that Nigerians are hungry. You know, all the budget

talk that we do on Twitter is all faith. The bulk of Nigerians are hungry, very hungry at that. So I always say, as a government, why don't you address this issue first? You know, how can we get in the lot of money compics into that turn around. You will employ you not one that's the optics, right kind of talkability, you will create

the right kind of cameraight citizens. Well, it goes also it goes back to the optics, the optics of government, right, you know, And I don't want to get political, but we have to talk a bit. You know, when you get elected with the lowest number of votes ever. I had this start that more. I didn't want to go there. You have to do quick things. There have to be the optics that you are working for the man on the street. You know all I've seen in last

week. I saw the guy going to walk in them, these new bands, I saw them having their meeting. I don't feel the urgency on Twitter. I saw the silly arguments. One was seeing that you have to wait for National Assembly to be in session before you can appoint ministers. Jesus hit Christ listen. You can appoint. You can announce who you want to be

an economic team at any time. There are confirmations a different matter. Entirely announce the team with We just left a present that didn't announce a team. I will so how that went. Announce your team. The media guys, the petrolum guys. Let them be the ones to drive policy. Then you know you're asking people to cut down and order wallets to pay for for expensive

payments. But your official car is this massive, important Mercedes Benz. Please, I'm not asking him to enter innocing or to enter a care I'm just saying the optics when you do policy, think about the optics or will They said that only three percent of Nigerians can afford to spend more than one hundred and seventy five thousand nina a month convert or sent antonna a month to dollars. That's how much only three percent can spend. Yet pure parents have gone

up three times. How are they going to pay? All the folks on Twitter are saying is a good call. I agree, I've told you some tooday was good. But you cannot take a cancer patience. Let me put it better away. If you have malaria, they give you tablets. They'll tell you to take four now, take four tomorrow, take for the next day. There you can fa define maliia Messin and says take everything at the same time. Just take all the whole twenty tablets, put in your mouth

and drink water. Because you've got malaria. You've got to have a plan. You've got to and time is a plan. If you announced and you say we are going to take away from your subsidy, and we're gonna do it over four years, it's gonna be twenty percent every year that go. They will come on stream that will reduce the pressure. Other guys are going to come on stream and that will reduce the pressure as well. We're going

to increase in the mum wages. We're gonna do it infrastructure so people start to see, Okay, I'm gonna suffer in quote for three months and hopefully it's gonna get better. But if you said, please say it's gone, you might run into turbulence that you didn't plan for. And her bless is a big, big, big, big problem, right media, what's your what's your take on this? Yeah? Go for it? Even uh uh spoking to most things I would want to say. You talk about if you're

telling me to say, you're telling me start or probably fast. So you are eating fast, you know you can't be eating fact while you're telling fast, it's not gonna work like that. You mentioned what cuts like you also mentioned what cuts is the government making both the exactive legislative at making you just then portemra to really furnished the fournished asso and you're asking people that you are giving. How do you talk a man on the street that you don't have

money? I mean, we have to say because we don't have many. But then you can stand fort on furniture over there, well, other dad. Every year you have to buy new furniture and you have to buy you into little kitchen retail, so you spend over twenty one brewing amra for as clinic alone. When people can give with the access primarily of care. So in their defense, in their defense media that that's that's the old government right

in that defenders the old government that's leaving. Right. So there's a new government. It's a it's any government on an economic side will do better than people. Hardy administration. Any if you put a stone frog as the president, it will do better economically than the harder administration. Any government will do better. So these guys are going to be better than what we're hand in the past, and they're going to have, you know, better, because

they're a bit more. We don't even though we like to be very hardest. We know that's again and that don't know how much true we conceive like I've said, like I said, it doesn't matter. We don't know in the past and going forward we should. It should really matter. That's my take on that. Let me get this the past what it doesn't matter, prob yeah matter. People examples, you know, and we subside matters. Thus it doesn't matter, you know, even if a contem hundred million liters

every day, you know, so the numbers we would be mine. Is this so? And again exchange just just supposed to be claire as long as we are paying full price for the crude oil. Subsidy has gone. If we are subsidizing the subsidy and it's still there, I want to get I want to get them in here. And am Nasa? Mister Nasa, how are you doing? Hi? Yeah? What's what's happening? Where? Where are you calling from? Sir um from how is kada? You guys have

fuel? We are It's called the free market? Wow, you can what's

in your mindset? Well? Um on vision that of all that believe mister Alway, exclusion for harpitale on the side of the market, while we're almost calling for so challenge towards doing and this a kind of itself as in democratcy, but olgation that this government of on that on the economic Sorry to his demord we used to do a kind of shallow understanding on the side of our leaders regarding what sort of about you know, after the Great depression went arguing

that government really needs to come for regulatory majors again classical, that we should have a full free much on my forces of demand and sulf And you begin to under to realize one thing, one of the most brillonaries what sifty demands you know, propriating and we prom company agree to push the understanding of major

economics to me that what's more like the program have you applicated? That's the programing and the bottom line I'm paying shock about one when you see you are subsidizing anything in the country, but on the side of publico where you can't discriminate. And for a country like Nigeria, we are not supposed to adopt that kind of shadow understanding of what has been right use for a new leader

community of action. I expected that where I should have been a from after him, not on aligned thing with the idea of yes, main idea of removing it is what is that not mister Darley? He and I had a lot of people here agree with you. Look at but why is it that company is not thinking about making the cost of governance? So this portrait is the point that we are tied. We are we are practicing social fortunity and

capital for the four that demands just go whatever the mater completely. Want to look at the dell out take it from two tavern at seven, look at the devisions that I think there is the economic argument that when we're also here, when prices right, when we happen, you begin to understand that we have a sense of the charge, all other understanding of how the issue properly people. And this is what stops me in the country that haply on imports.

You just come without comunity in wag of con ground, without proper plans. How are we really do is how are we going through this on Nigerians on the distance and ground and the other time you're talking about we we don't even to have a union that because they only come to make noise and and does for what what we're talking about? What happened in cost of VI of mygia. I what we are having a mostly have been has always trying to

survive having reactuvenaries I do proactive. It is a general principle that beli of dard of living of the count extend only about of bush At. So in

essense, now even where are you taking the point? Are you trying to push economic aplings are we trying in production so that at the end of it, the price AIS pros less right from domestic levels, it is a point key less because you leavels keeping people are sending more on m he's going to the kind of less because he has gotten more onto So yeah, I mean again, you see that's the point. That's the point we're talking about subting

nature because we don't have any pulse in front of us. The only policy we're have in front of us is the is the president's statements at inauguration and the NNPC guys clarification. But we don't have a policy to go buy. We don't know either removed the regation. We don't really know. Maybe I wish we got a bit more context, but what we know is our prices have gone up. Price have gone up, So that's what we know. So and it's like you said, it's very interesting what you said that these

stations have got product, but because it's expensive, nobody's buying. So who will blink first? Will the consumers be forced to buy? They cannot they have no money. The consumers don't have any money. Wilayer I said that only three percent and above Holland seventy five thousand a month with music. Guy with with the SUVs are going to buy petrol. But nobody's gonna buy is

what I said. The economy will grind to a halt. Not because the economy is going to go through ry or two, but because there's no money. Nobody can afford the goods and services. The economy is many small wheels turning. People in Carduna are not buying petrol. You bet yourself that people in Abia in their buying in joys in oil. I'm not buying as well. So there's gonna be a problem. You've got to stimulate consumption. If

there's no consumption, there's no economy. If you take away the money you will use to buy food to buy fuel, the work kind of economy and you're building is an interesting dilemmoa are gonna have to sort out going forward. That's what's all happened. Mister billyam No, I've got by, mister Yakubu, you've got the floors down. Hey are you doing? Kay? Let's do cancer. Let's do cancer. If somebody has cancer and walks into the cancer station, what happens? I'm saying you. Maybe maybe I don't because

I honestly um, you can't spend, they can't spend I have. What he's saying is that the don't any enough to spend. It's not I it's it's it's ignely research. It's it's documentary research. It's not it's what I'm like. I our it's one project and I lewhere bro, bro. This data is from nigeram Breal Statistics. It's not fake data. I can send it to you. There are lots of other data like that support this one. For instance, no, no, let me don't. Don't they do?

You know how many jams have more than one hundred thousand in their bank account or five routs on the bank account. There are many that have support this one. This is just one part of many data we do. We don't have consuble captain Nigeria with owns. So let's leave the lord and make your point. The data is factual. The data is factual that many Nigerians cannot afford to spend more than a horders some five thousand era a month because

they don't end as much. I'm sure the bank employees and need some four thousand. His factual of data. I would anybody that when I want anybody that I like, but you need me? You people that people back. It doesn't mean anything. You are making conjecture without that. It doesn't if I go to a Balanday there are rules first, no balanda would I didn't say a Bandai and guys can afford rules? Royce, it doesn't make any sense what you're saying, sir, the data from I and I my brother.

Why do you think rice is sold in five kg? Why do you think oil is sold in in in sashes? Why do you think all that is happening in the economy? Why do you think so? Do you have friends? Do you have any friend you do you have any friend that has bought a brand new car that was not bought by his company or by his employer, that took his own revenues and bought a brand new car in Nigeria the last eight years? Do you know anybody not company car? How many

do you know? I love them? I did say financing, That's what I'm asking you. Do you know Nigila dost have financing? Do you know any Nigeria that bought a car in the last eight years? Nobody? But bro, We're gonna move on, man, we gotta move on. I love people. Take that people. People have been No, no, I said, I I'm on some of these things. Like I said, honestly, I don't that I don't because this thing has actually okay, I think. Let me just make this point. I hear you. I hear you.

Get the point of making. You're saying that you agree with the subthing to move out punch not the stage I see. The point I'm making is this. There's no one you would find here that doesn't want something to go away. No one. But the point you must understand is that Nigerians do not end the average weighting Nigeria. Officially, it states NA a month. There are tons of data to show that Nigerians do cannot afford is three hundred

percent shock. There is no financial person you can speak to that will tell you. In any economy, forget Nigeria. In any economy, you can increase prices by one hundred percent overnight, and that makes sense in any economy, even credit economies. Nigerians do not have credit. They averaging. Nigerians spend cash, which means if they earn ten nira, they have to spend ten nira. If you increase fuel by a one hundred percent. All you are doing is telling that I to do a choice between food and fuel.

That's all we are saying. We're not arguing with you. The reality go out of the streets. If there was money Nigeria, you will see sachet rice, you will see sachet toothpaste. You will see sasha. That nonsense. There is sashi because people can't afford it. That's why it's there. How much is a narrow money paying the pedroal going to painful? How much the paying narrow money? Why do not paying one million nini money? What's the salary of a police sergeant that has an a K for the seven on

the street? What is salary is at the nara? Convert to nara two dollars and tell me what that is. So let's not make arguments because we want to defend the government. I don't want to make a politicular. I don't see whether you. I'll let you speak, whether you support tinable or those portulable econom mix does not care. Economics will happen to everybody. If you go to that police john today, you are going to pay five hundred

nara plus irrespect of the politicular sticker you have on your car. If you have that money, God bless you. Let's let's get cheating here, che diego V taking her name right, cheat gov. Hey, go ahead, sir, what's up? I'm so sorry I don't have and it's not much because about the very small practice I can't see, okay, in the fact they are people. Maybe the naked um is that impopulate population that sup side. No talk about what the rest of the we need this question of the

form body order their species that have there's the path. Yes, you want to take out the first for you about taking across the borders to some other countries and are founding know that column which is actually very true happening who we have been seeing the effect you know that countries now that the subsidies are being but then you coming to see take it off immediately it will be good fine, end hundred thousand even spending forty thousand on month on transported or night and

any less hundred exactly. Yeah, you don't have the maths wizard to know that. Man. Yeah, but but are we are we really having a discussion If Nijas can't afford it to come on, that's not discussion. To have everybody on this space, everybody on this space knows this. I want to ask you, how much do you pay your cook? I said, don't answer. Just tell me how much you pay your cook or your driver or your housemaid. Do you pay them less than two dolls a day?

And don't answer. Just ask yourself that question. Do you pay your cook, your driver, your men more than that two does a day? In this Nigeria, we know the answer to this. That why we This is not an argument to have. Now, this country has got the richest black man on earth, Dangote in this country. Does it mean that in Canal?

They're not pourple in canal? That's his argument. So if we go to if we look at Dangotes, will say, oh, because Dangote is a billionaire, then we should increase the price of fuel because Dangota can afford it. No, the lowest common multiples, where the society goes to the government exists for those that cannot exist in a fair market. That's what the government does. That's what they have. Obama Care. America has the best care in the world, but they have Obama Care because if you can't avoid

medical care, then you get health insurance. Support in this same America, this subsidize diesel for farmers. Farmers have their own diesel different color. The color it differently is only farmers. But yeah, and we're here arguing that we should remove we should remove the prices. You can't whatever policy want to do. The point I'm making is that there is no economy on Earth or any business on and two hundred percent price increase immediately, forget Nigeria, forget

whatever. The two hundred percent increase immediately is not sustainable. It's not sally. What's up man? I did sal you, I did what's happened and put the light and at the end of the in front of for example. And and nobody can say categorically that disiness and that are the advantages or disadvantages that or the thing that government is going to do to actually mitigate the effect

of to city removal. I'm wanting about pete comment denominator. Petrol doesn't just affects cards because mustiper tho'to thing that that who people have pol have discussed. Petrol affects almost everything the market we know at astronomically. So as much as we are support of or I am in support of something but then I believe that should be win with SUBSIDI, should be removed and should be done in the right. By now partic should start ruling. The engineers should be able

to should be sure of the things that they're goings were enjoyed. So let the lights that they plan to bring, let us bring their light. Let us so the light the light to come to the beginning of the tunnel. I'm going I'm going to use that that line. So you want the Sally wants the lights at the beginning of the tunnel, not at the end of the tunnel. Very interesting, and you see your point is valid. I mean where I've not hitting anyone in the last week say they are against subsident

only analysis again subsident removal. So subject that has got to go. But it has to go in a plan manner with pallities. And I don't want few well subsidient pallties. I want a social safety nets to say if you do not end money, if you are young, if you are in firm, then the state will protect you. Not just a very very cost a still low. So you can afford to pay people certain amount of money based on where they live, based on how they spend and they can get by,

but you just can't. If you go to my avilagtion and you say we're going to increase your price by one hundred percent, how are they going to afford it? Where do they end? Who would they charge one hundred percent to cover that increasing fuel price hundred percent? And my avilace is like you, so think about the guy in your place. How would the guy in your village be able to afford it? Uh? I do, I've got you? What's up? Yeah? Hey, what's up? Yeah?

So, um, this space is really important for for everyone because it's it's for us to look at all the sides of the argument, you know, trying to dispel the propagandas and people that are trying to cast light Nigeria. So this is really important for those purposes. Um, my own ancle is I think the majority of us basis I agree that uh, subsidies is a waste in the manner in which it's been revented, so that that's that's fine.

So subsidies, then how do we address that wist? Because that then means that subsidies is not the problem for the manner in which the subsidy has been implemented that the problem. So some of the arguments that subsidies benefating a few rich Nigerians. First of all, the only people complaining so far had had a break Nigerians. I don't see any rich Nigeria fighting at the first

lation. They still the abread nigerent. So Secondly, if we're saying that, um, this subsidy now should be taken off because there is vistage and it's benefiting a few, does that then mean that now that we are taking this subsidies away, does that mean that automatically there are no more avenues in the government that benefits a few rich And does that then mean that automatically in all the vistages in the government has automatically stopped. This is the angle and

want naturals to come from. We shouldn't see subsidy as impacting. We are blessed with oil. Why shouldn't we enjoy? Why should we go broke trying to pay for something we're blessed with? Doesn't make any sense that are blessed with oiled worldwide, they're subsidized that the economy. Most recently, UK had to subsidize their citizens when they and enterprises went up Russia also subsidizes that the

citizens in terms of a petrolum product. And even when they're talking about phasing out subs due to the ongoing crisis in Ukraine, they're doing it gradually. No, you know, so they're telling that the major oil marketers that look, we may eventually phase out the subscide by more than fifty percent. They didn't just come and said, you know what, subsidi has gone and taxing.

So this is what my dreams are saying, well saying, let the government talk to us, let the government carry us along, Let the government show that we're in all this together. It shouldn't be like, oh, because the way I'm looking at the subsidy now, I can't wrap around. I can't wrap my head around the fact that I'm thinking it's more or less like a tax now. And the way I look at it is this is

the AFR gals that are going to be responsible for paying the tax. And mostly because the god that the death to GDP ratio is so high now that we can continue borrowing to subsidize the foe. So if that is the case, then how can we look for other sources of cutting governments? Ending subsidies should not be this the sole skateboard, and I think that the handful we should be looking at it from. I'm willing to give this new government the

benefit of the doubt because this policy was not made by them. The policy was made by previous administration through the the i A and also mute lack of provision for subsidy beyond true. So essentially what these governments did is to announce it and to continue to Yeah, I think I like completely agree with all you said. Just the last problem do addressed. I agree with you that. Let me make it. You've if you've taught a few things, you

know you are touching right. Number one, the subsident removal is a tax. It's a tax on government in a patiency because the government cannot get you cheap, or should we say cannot get cannot make any MPC provide PMS without going bankrupt. That's number one. Number two, this government right the policy of subside removal. That's why I define the terms at the very beginning. When you say subsidie removal, then we're putting into this box and we're not

getting the real intent of what's going on. What they are doing is removing the regulated price. They are removing the regulated price. The policy was not done but the last administration, nor was it done by the one before then. It wasn't a long time ago in Nigeria. In Nigeria, a long time ago, we regulated everything. The price of air travel, the price

of water, the price of everything was regulated and petrol has stayed. So when the refineries went bad a long time ago, not eighty years or sixty years ago, they went bad in the Military region because the price of PMS was reculated, then there had to be a subsidy for the import. So right now, fast forward to today, when people say that there's no provision in the budget for subsidy, there has never been a provision for subsidy in

any budget. I challenge anyone to show me in the last budgets where there's been a provision for subsidy, how has subsidy been paid for. The NNPC pays for the subsidy. You only saw it in the budget because they passed the PIA and NNPC was then saying that they were going they were own the federal government. This differential between what they were paying over charging the government for subsidy. The NNPC pays for subsidy NNPC is not in the federal budget.

The NNPC is not in the federal budget. So people say there's no provision. You put a provision there, then you take of it wasn't there before now, So I'm challenging piece on go back to the budget and show me in say twenty fifteen where they says fuel subsidy. It's never there. So when we now say it was not put in the budget, it was never

in the budget. What the government simply said was that the past PIA which made an NNPC Limited, is now a quote unquote private company, and it was a private company, then the Balanchiet is going to be separate from the federal government. Right Hence the npisade said in twenty nineteen or so sally in twenty twenty one subsidy will go, but they allowed us for one more year,

which was twenty twenty two. So in this year twent twenty twenty said I are only going to pay for subsidy for six months, that they're going to support the NNPAC for six months. But subsidy has not been in the budget in the past. It's paid for by the NNPC. So if you want to pay for subsidy going forward. You can, you can, and like your brightly said sir, it has got to be a graduated thing. You advise the country. We're going to move subsidy payments or over remove the

regulative price. Hey, this is a subsidy. It will go out over four years and is how we're going to fund it. That's how we should do it. But it shouldn't get an excuse to say there's no money in the budget. There was never money in the budget at all to pay for subsidy. N NPC is not individual budget. Are we are we thanks for that clarification, just the roundom so that I don't hold So. One thing I noticed from the previous administration is that there were very liberal in terms of

um you know, wildfare programs. We know about the creation of the humanitarian ministry, you know, and programs. We know about the l power, you know about the mc boras program. So essentially one these programs exist at the moment, right, So do you think these programs have a role to play in terms of these quotem quote palliatives that we're talking about, you know,

trying to question the part of this subsidy that is now gone. Do you think they have any key role to play because the person has made it.

Claire that obviously there's need to increase the minimum which but we know what a goot when the briss many people will still not INERTI int this minimum which so that minimum which it itself is not really uh something that is going to benefit majority may the government workers, because of course the government will implement it some policy, but what about the private sector, what about the informal sector? Are there going to keep to this minimum wage? Thinking about yeah,

two questions, two great, two great questions. So number one, the the the the social the Ministry of Humanitarian was charged with this social um security payments and all that they did not do a good job, and that was a lost opportunity, right, Many people believe that that ministry is very arbitrary, that they just announced money, but the money does only get to a

lot of the of the quote unquote poor people. That nothing wrong with the idea we're trying to copy or we're trying to do the social security scheme or social welfare scheme. But I just think it's not that transparent, and I think they lost the opportunity of the good will of the population. And it's not hard to do this right to have a social registrar. We have NI and we have biometry support and see where the money is going to. So

that's one part there. If this god men can go back to that scheme, you know, clean it up a point on that's very very trusted, and roll it out and say, okay, if you earn, you have to file taxes. If you file taxes and you say you end this income below this median benchmark, then you qualify to receive social Security benefits unfunded social circuited benefits or funded from payerial taxes. We can do that, and we can have that scheme or Parron and even if it's to start with one million

people, start there, then build it up. We cannot say everybody must pay market prices in capitalistic society. It's not going to work for everyone. That's number one. Minimum wage that you talk about economist or so you say capitalist, don't like it because when you're pricing, if you price wage, you are then saying that when you price minimum wage, are actually going to reduce employment because some coupitalists will say, oh I can't afford to pay this,

so I will pay less. I personally think you should have a minimum way to say, below this level, you cannot employ anybody if you're not going to pay employees level just for not just for social contract. You can't have people anything less than a dollar a day because you have the right to payiment doll already. So the minimum wage clearly has got to go up. The question is always how do you pay for this? And the answer is writ in front of us. You can pay for the minimum wage by cutting

back the fat and the waste that is currently in the federal government. Look at National Assembly. I saw that, but it was the last year National assemblies allocation is more than the Universal Basic educations allotment. How doesn't make any sense. The National Assembly ends more or is allocated more than the universal basic

education. So cut all that fat a way, sell all those presidential if you took a keep one or two, sell those things, cut down the cost of being business and plow it back into paying minimum which increase for the

junior workers. So you can see level zero to level twelve. Maybe they're going to increase their wages for now, and the economy improves, then we're going to increasing wides for the upper or said workers but there has got to be something to done with me. Mort which inflicition is twenty two percent twenty two percent and minimum which has not moved since went to us announced off era.

So you don't have to be a math wizard to see that. We have got to pay people more is you don't have to be a math twizard, right, And we have to do this by asking ourselves where can we get the money from to pay people? There's money in Nigeria. People don't pay taxes, so tax them. You know you have homes and Abuja do tournament rate? You can. You can't hide your house, it's right there. Who owns this house? Tax the house and pay. There are many

ways to raise revenues. Cut down the waste, tax the rich and transports of moneys so the poor people in Ninetia to survive. We can't build an economy where the poor cannot feed. That's you can't build the society that way where the poor cannot feel. You how this guy say there's petrolling Carena, but nobody's buying. So if there's no money buying because they don't have money, yes they don't. They don't have money. So when you come in

and say they will have money, but they're not showing it. If they have the money, they will buy the five hundred fewer, but they don't have the money. That's what you're not buying. Yake. I've got you, sir, mister, I k I k I. What's up now? So am I going to shut down the space? Maybe electant and spitter because the technical issues on the space today is a bit low. We might have to do the exact same topic next week. Yeah, but they tech issues

today all do is very very poor. I can add a lot of people, it's just a space. I know what's going on with them, right, So I CA, you've got the floor. You can go ahead and speak when you're saying, which hasn't win day down and maybe next week will do on that take on the same topic because I'm sure this week would have more information that we can then speak on. So I can go to flossor okay um, because I as I think move plus removed towards was bad.

Yes, it was bad, and I will keep still because the subsequent move Um Majors of the Jena wants it. I feel that that is not the only place for I whist the morning we want to fast. Okay, national segment think about people's lives, realize anymore when you talk about art, doesn't know that it's notting compared to what they can mean. Eve, they should change the name for minimum ridge the minimal living rich to maybe two let thousand.

Let's be a living ridge, minimal living roo. People can understand. Go it's to pour, it's to pour. I don't know if the county just keeps making people poor and only the rich keep going high. They employed people all over the police session, the UN forces, the military, and they're about what is the salary skilled? How its increased? Every remote for everything should not suffecting for everything. The price is changing and nobody can talk

follow us. Where are yourself or whatever? Imain'stay I was complaining to or just beautiful something you looking drive, not just oppin. You should be complatively removing this thing. I mean, I think so bad. Yeah, yeah, And I don't want to put to give this excuse of of of of I don't yeah, I don't want put to give the excuse of fog or knock or budget. I'm just saying, in any in any eco system, in any ecosystem, you can't increase prices by two hundred percent immediately in any

eco system, government, private sector charge masks. Even in your own house. You can't just tell you your child, I used to give you Tony before I'm going to give you want Era. There's no way it's done. In any eco system. You can simply say, we know subsidy is corruption. We know, but let me put us saying immediately, don't we know the pots are corrupt? Don't we know the police are corrupt? Okay, let's crap the entire police force tonight and let's build a new police force.

Since we know police are corrupt, let's crap the entire police today, and let's start building your brand new police form tomorrow with anyone thing that's a smart idea. No, because who police is treating in the country. So you do it gradually. You say we're going to recruit new work and new police people that are going to replace and phase out. It's in police force over time in any ecosystem or so the argument of it has to go. No

budget argument. It was not in the budget before. I'm looking at the budgets now right now, show me your budgets, your fagile budget where you saw subsidy before Pia show it to me. And if you say, okay, there's now Pia. Okay, there's say Pia, why do you still have regulated prices? Is the PA being implemented. It's not been suspended. It's been suspended, right, So what is your I mean, I can't.

I can't find his name. One can can DeFore, one can DeFore you've got the flows because if you go at, you're having simple to the name. So how are you doing, sir good? Yeah, soct something. UM talked about relatives and reading minimum wags, which doesn't mean and I'll see why a reason minimum wage. Everything that follows is always situation and private goes up. So when you can talk about natives, I always he have minimum wage, minimum wage. That's so, But nobody talks about the long

term effect of reading minimum wag. Nobody talks about um benefits for minimum wakes. Race, I will following your lind We talked about fans not saying people enough money. If you read the minimum wag, we know the banks not raia salary. We know that things, pride of things are going to go up. So yeah, up among them. Because at the end of the day, price was still go up and you still have to raise animum wage and it follows each other back to back to back, So it's not really

solving the problem I had. The politics are saying, oh, I would have done it gradually, and I would have putting politives. Everyone keeps saying politives are minimum ways, but that is not the solution. Yes, we need to take out the subsidence, but no minimum which won't solve the problem. Okay, So a question for you, which which one has come personate you that inflational minimum ways increased? Um, it's like we're following back to back, but that's the question. Was like, okay, so okay,

So have we increased the minimum wage in Nigeria? Saince was in twenty sixteen? Have we increased since twenty sixteen? Has intention gone up? Okay? So the answer is that I'm not. I'm not. I'm not saying it will I'm saying inflation has gone up on an annual basis, It's gone up by twenty percent annual. Business. That means that the salary you earned in twenty fifteen has been cut down to say half today. But the minimum wage,

the official waging Nigeria, has not gone up. So even before we even argue should we increase the minimum wage, you're not the point that your wage has been eating by inflation. Before we even argue how much has been eating, it has been eating already, So we have to try to match prices. Fuel has gone from what seven narra to what to forget? This new increase to your wage has stayed the same. So what should the workers do? What tell me what the worker should do? I said, it's

a very very complicated thing. It's not just by reading minimum wagelone would not solve the problem. Like I said, it's goodstlation. Yeah, but no one, no one has no, no one has said something. Times we can actually take out the subsidies and take subsidies. When the boil price crash twenty sixteen, those are the best time to take our subside. Then let the price go up at the same time poil price that No, this is times when the house because very soon channel will start coming for us. I

start taking about wots and airports and the seaports and everything. Oh trying to say everyone, I keep saying, um brace with more way, race with more witch. It's not going to solve the problem. Ever. Keep silies company the sect of these things. It's not a ship like Accusa moment that everything is sold nothing. We are in broke country. We are not like the southeast. You are not like you buying heavy rings all producing company but

country. Sorry, but we have brooke and we should realize that we should stopped looking at mother country. I realize that we are poor and put a put accordy to our side that I have to say this idea of oh let's keep this thing that keep going back and fought on grazes in the more wage and we should. But the topsy or not comes up to it. It doesn't matter. We are not the rich country. We are cover two hundred abion Nigerians and we are producing violence for this side of the country alias the

same amount of will with most same amount of oil body. But still they're not that rich. I've expected to like sounding yeah yeah, But the question is I think let's I've let you. You've made your point, but I'm asking you simple questions. Right if inflation. No one has said that increasing the minimum wage is going to solve any problem. We are saying increasing the minimum wage it takes your wage to where it was before any problem will started

from do you agree with that? That's what we're saying. Inflation may minimum wage does not cause inflation if you increase the minimum wage. Inflation occurs if there's no productivity. So when you wonder would Dogi? Okay, but I can give you a history, wonder would DOGI would Dogi? Awards? Nigeria increased, not only increasing memo, way they paid a lot of money. What happened there was inflation? Why because there was noting to buy. There's

a lot of money and order to buy. That's when you have the art murder of cement ships in legals. I had a guy told me. The guy used to work for the air conditioning factory in Niger. When you sell a concer, you told me that right, people will come to their shop and bribe these salespeople to keep air conditioners or fridge for them. There was so much money in Niger that you couldn't buy a fridge. No, it wasn't available anyone the important was sold. So people will come to the store

and bribe the shop attendant. Please keep off for me. That's why there was inflation because of the productivity. Now let me give you an example. If you go to the onion market in Jigawa. It does not matter the minimum wage or the Montrey policy or whatever you do, the price of onions will not go up. Why they are onions in Jigawa. There are no onions in Legos. That's why there's inflation of food in Legos. There's no supply of onions in Legos. Inflation occurs when you have cash moving in the

velocity in the economy and there's no productivity. Today in Nigeria, the essames are not producing, so rice is not available. That's why food prices are going up. Not because of the cash in your pocket chasing the rise. There's just no rice to buy. You heard the guy sell you today there's petrol in Karna. Nobody's buying, Okay, So say something about inflation. Go ahead, good. So when you read the minimum with what happens. Give a lot of money around and a lot of moneys around. That's what

happens. People have money to sponge on more things. That's what happens. But that is not true. That is what they teach us. That that is no, that is what a teachers. No, that's what it is. That is what it's taught. Yes, now, Jesus Christ, and the US printed trillions, trillions of dollars money, money to use, and that will happen to us went up at might be said, at some point the US printed two trillions of dollars under quantitative easing from two thousand and seven

interest rates in America, where zero percent trillions were printed. There was no inflation in America. Go and pull up the data. Quantitative easing printed trillions was introduced into the American economy, and there was no inflation. Why because America is able to import cheaper and that sucks up the excess capital. Inflation is simply not the increase in cash. It is when that cash has nowhere to go, moving with velocity in the economy. Then it causes what you

then call cost push or demand push inflation. If you give everybody in Nigeria and increase double increase in salary, and you increase the production of goods and services in Nigeria, they will take their cash and buy the goods and you will not have inflation. Inflation or cause when there are no goods and services, when there is no productivity to soak up that cash. America printed dollars, Zimbabwe printed dollars. Zimbabwe has inflation. America has no inflation. Pull

up the data. It's not to say I might expert, pull up the data. If you go to any look food state in Nigeria where food is produced, it does not matter the amount of currency in that state because the supply of that food product is surplus in that state. There is no food inflation in that state. Go to Benui, yam is available. Go to a half year cassava is available. The problem is taking it from Benui or appear to the market in legals. It's not a currency printing problem. It's

a supply problem. What the conny's called cost push inflation. Two taglets inflation? All right, sir, who we got here? All right, so I think we'll start to wind it down. Since the audience a bit low, let's do this again, I guess let's start to wind down. And our thirteen minutes of being here about th thirteen minutes. So the point I'm making, guys, it's let's summarize. Let's sort of summarize what we've talked about. Let's summarized all talking about today. Number one, the subsidy itself

is inefficient. It's a waste and it's a drag on government revenues. No argument. So the subsidy is a waste and a drug. The government is broke, so the government says they can no longer pay subsidy. That's fine. The only issue I believe Nigerias have today is that it's taken off immediately. So it has made prices or to we say, the cost of living

in Nigeria go up significantly. This has then reduced the purchasing power of their fixed income because they have a fixed income, but they are able to spend that same fixed income on the same goods and services. So yes, there's patrol now, but nobody is buying because we have to choose between food and school fees and patrol. So what do we do with default to honor scale

of preference to what is or important towards food and school fees. If this continues and then no one is spending because we cannot afford it, then the economy starts to contract and starts to shrink. Who can get the economy out of a contraction? The same government, The same government has got to come back in and expand the economy by spending or by giving a tax cut to

spenders. It can give an expansion of incomes to the lower class employee and my jury say we're going to increase the salary, and it can give a tax cuts to the DAN got to say, we want you guys to spend more money on capital investments with this tax cut. So if you simply increase costs without providing a palliative, I eat and talk to the government. Now you are going to contract the same economy you want to tax in future to pay for your growth. So it might not make sense to do that.

You might want to consider removing the subsidy. But given what the cognition, are palliatives to ensure that folks can still consume. If I end a one hundred thousand, how do I go to work? If you will it is five hundred nina? And later, how explain it to me? So this is I think the impact on your wallet. The government has a repair to

play in reflating the economy. If the economy contracts, they will spend more to replace the economy than doing a proper plan to phase this in, and how to phase the palliatives in. You can't in any ecosystem increase income or cost by twenty it just can't take it, or I guess. On that note, let me thank you all for journing us. You have a lot of issues with the audio today because I don't know what's happening with spaces today.

But will definitely definitely try to do this again. I premier next week, same to big but I hope, but then would have had a lot more, should we say, more information from the governments, maybe one or two guys that are appointed, and we'll listen to the NNPC guy a bit more to get more a better sense of what they're talking about, to allow us to reach a more information. But as it stands, if you will allow just this price inquase to stay without the corresponding income support, the economy

is going to contract. Its maths, it's just pure maths or I guess. Thank you so much you guys, have a wonderful rest of your evening and bye to you.