Hey folks, good evening again and welcome to another space with me carlu Agia. Of course, on this space every Sunday, seven pm West African time, we're talking money, the economy and of course finance.
Right.
So I was away last week. I had to go to the UK on a personal mission, and I must say I did post a lot of stuff about the UK and I did meet a lot of people. I think on my last day in the UK, I was on I was at Oxford Street, the famous bunches and all that, and I did meet about four or five folks that saw me on Twitter and said hey, where are you? Want to come see you and we're able to just meet talk, you know, just reminisce, have lunch
and dinner early industries. I was there for almost six hours, you know, metprov met a group of ladies, met a few other guys. So it was very nice that we were you know, so it's able to meet folks outside Twitter, and I did. I really, I really appreciate it. But I missed you guys. Hence we're back. And whilst I was away, you know, there was this topic that I was seeing come up all the time, the President's announcement about the spending that was being done on infrastructure really
across Nigeria. This particular announcement team that she goats the airport. It's not the first one he has done. He's done a lot of announcements as she got the infrastructure spending in Nigeria. But this particle on I think sort of tipped the scale into the commentary and the followership, and I think folks would decided to question if there's been a should we say is spread of the spending by
this particular administration. And I've also been on Twitter talking about this, so I said, it's been a good topic for us to talk around. When I get back on Sunday, that's what I want to do today. So again, this is a topic where there are no right or wrong answers. It's just going to be really opinion. You know. I'm going to try to lay out the should we say?
The frame will give you the data and the context to the conversation, but it's going to be really your opinion what you feel if you feel the government is investing across the board, or if you feel it should do better, or if you feel like some would say that we should focus on the numbers where the activity is focused on investing there. So I'm just going to give it again context and data. If you have your opinion, please request for the mic. I will handle the mic
to you. Keep it short a minute or two, give us what you feel and then will learn. So let me give you the context and why I'm bringing in Federal character into this. Nigeria has a law called the Federal Character. In my view, this is my opinion, my opinion, that's the worst law ever in the history of Nigeria. Why because that law guarantees spending. The Federal Character Law. If I could paraphrase basically say that whatever you do, you have to do it with the quote unquote, you
have to do it as if Nigeria is involved. What that means is this, if you want to appoint ministers, you can't appoint twelve ministers. You can't appoint six or eight or ten ministers. You must appoint TESTI six ministers. Why because the Nigeria has tenty six states. So you must run your cabinet and your government in a way that reflects federal character. That's why you see that the
six ministers. You can have twelve ministries, but you must always have at the minimum TESTI six ministers because you have to run your governments according to federal character. That's what the law implies. So when you employ in the Nigerian Police, if you want fifty, it's not possible unless you want to take one one per state. You have to employ from all TESTI six states of Nigeria if you want to if you want to do anything. So now let's now go towards the economic side of it.
What about if you want to build a road. If you stretch that argument because you must run your administration to reflect the federal character of Nigeria, then that means that if you build a road in the southeast, you must build a road in the southwest because you want to be balanced. You know federal character, which is that word for balanced. I give an example. Look at the still plants that are in Nigeria. Remember that when we build did the still plants, there were no regions in Nigeria.
When we stay did all the still plants, there were no regions. We just had states. Right, were still plants in Ajaokuta, So that's central, right. Weber still planted in Katsina. We we still planted in jos Weber still planted in no Shobo, Web still plants in Delta. So there's no still plants in the whole of the Southeast. Many reasons, but there's no still plants in all nor the Southeast. So there's federal character in the eleocation of steel plant
but avoiding the Southeast. We have the research instit in the in the India in the East, but not still planned. Same with airport, we had the airport in Inuguti, International Airport in Enugu, but it's been there. It was it was an airport, not an international airport. It just an airport, not international. But all regions had international airport again because again you have to spread distance across Nigeria. But the Southeast they didn't have intertional airports that eighteen and all that.
Same with trade zones, you had trade zones all over and the Southea didn't have a trade zone. But that's Southeast. But when you run the operations of Nigeria, when you look at Nigeria as a whole, when you do things like you do the Petrilum Trust Fund, when you do show Pee, when you do investments across Nigeria, there is always a tendency that you balance out suspending because you want to sort of take that box on federal character. So if you're building a road here, you want to
build a road there. Of course, you can't build ports in every part of the country, but again you get the point at making. Let's fast forward to PTA. PTF was all across Nigeria. That was under General Bacher and Bohario was the guy around the PTF just all across Niger about projects all across Nigeria. My school saw PTR project. I know your school also saw PTR plus across the board and we all saw that right shore p also all across the federation. We did see bosses across the
federation employment all that. The t really have a specific fund that has been created for the excess cool that they have saved from robot subsidy. They don't have a specific fund. They have a fund that in the book created If you look at the very very first fact after fact after the subsidy was created, there was a fund that money was taken from the fact proceeds and put into that fund. I believe the first one was about fifty percent and subsequently been taking moneys from fac
and put into that fund. Then again, let me give you a history. Boo Harry. When Buhari was the president, bo Harris had something called the Presidential Initiative Infrastructure something like that. Essentially, what they did was that they created a fund and they put in the dividends their independent revenues maybe dividends from nagural quite natural gas. They put it into that fund. When they put into that fund, they are able to spend that fund by passing National Assembly.
Why by Persson National astand because according to the laws of the Federation, you cannot spend any moneys unless National Assembly appropriated about sexual Section eight of Natural Constitution. So when you create a separate fund, in their mind, you are bypassing the need to have National Assembly authorize that spending. That's why they do it. So bo Harry had that fund and all that fund was also where we paid
in the proceed of their bachelor loot. The bit of it was paid in there worlds gave a bit of it natural Sovereign Wealth fund and that's where we then took those funds and then do infrastructure bypassing National Assembly. Presenting the book has supercharged that fund. Really supercharged that fund. He has created his own fund right and that fund has now accumulated right in excess. The money is in
excess of what is available right in the budget. So let's say the budget of Nigeria, let's look at what we're talking about. The airport want to spend about seven hundred and twelve billion. The total allowance, the total budgety allowance for the measure of aviation and ministure of transportation is not up to seven hundred billion. So that fund alone has got an accumulted more funds than the ministries
that are actually in charge of transportation and aviation. So the president has basically taken funds from the val of subsidies, putting a separate fund. And that separate fund essentially what is then using to spend at will without going through the National Assembly. So Tabu, how you did it? Tinabu has simply supercharged it. So the question is that is that now if you don't come back to this compt
of federal character, how should that now operate. First of all, that fund is in it self illegal because you cannot take moneys out of tax. You can't take any revenues. What is tax revenues? What else independent revenues and spend without the National Assembly authorizing it. You can't again section eighty. I'm going to retweet it again for you guys, so you can also read it again. I just read section eighty because my Twitter feed. I just pret there. You
can read all the sections eighty one. No money shall be withdrawn from the Consul Revenue fund except in this proscam National Assembly. No money can be withdrawn nothing can. You can't spend public money unless National Assembly authorizes you too. So that is pretty clear on that, right. So then when you don't have a separate fund, are you able to take money from that and spend No. First of all, it is illegal. But number two, let's assume it is legal.
Can you then spend that money without going through the issues of federal character. That's not the main question. Can I say, yes, I have a fund and that fund, I can just spend eighty percent of that money in the region. That's now the question we won't talk about on the space. Is it possible? The PRENDS is spending about seven hundred and twelve billion renovate just one airport,
just one airport in Legos. The total budget of the Newstry of transmition about two hundred is one of the six billion mins of aviation about seventy two billions just the aviation ministry alone, if you remove the training schools and all that just some two billion. So I can say that we have money in excess in this fund that the president has. Which is the name of that fund if you want to get the exact names, the Renewed Hope Infrastructure Development for the RGE idea, the Renewed
Hope in the fras structuredent phone. So he has taken money from the roomal of field subsidies put into the RGE IDF and then he's now spending the money from the average IDF at will however he wants. Right, So let me also give you what the RhI idea from to spend money on. Because I've given you now I've talked about how Nigeron is set up. You can't spend money without the National Assembly. Number two, we have federal character that say that when you do stuff in Nigeria,
you have to reflect federal characters. So we have those two. We now come to the outage idea of you need hope infrastructure of fun and we're now asking a question can the presidents spend money from the from the subty funds without going International Assembly Number one? Number two can he do this in any way he wants? Where else are they spending? This Money's on the Legos Caliber Coastal Highway. The money's coming from this overage idea. That's the one
trill billion you hear in dollar borrowing. It's come from this fund. But a great espece way come from this fund. Legos, Canno and Eastern rail lines also coming from this fund. So it's all coming from a fund that is not going International Assembly and seems to be weighted towards a particular region. I'll give you more proof on this and this guy. I'm going to stop to let you guys helping and give you a comment. So if you do no request, just do a request.
Now.
Let me give you also the project that we're doing from this fund. Legosy bout An Expressway one hundred and ninety six billion from this fund, the seventh AXL Highway about about one point two trillion, Multila Mouhammed Airport seven hundred and twelve billion just to fence the Legos Airport fifty billion, Lego Sagamo Road eleven billion, Lucky Service laying one to fifty eight billion Legos. But I talk to Expressway one point six trillion. There arefour breasing Legos want
to rehabilitate. There's no cost yet on that. There's a two billion for Legos light trail. So again we're taking moneys again here here me, we're taking moneys. We're federal moneys from the whole of subsidy to a fund set up by the president. Then the president is unilaterally taking the money, the federal money from that purse and giving it to a state to invest in their light trail. Nothing wrong with that in my view. But other states have light rails? Are you going to do that for
other states as well? So this is federal money going to a state project, not appropriated by NAS. Nothing, just it's going to go from the federal to the state. This so it's all it's if you just look at the numbers, it seems to be either the project start from Legos or terminateing Legos. On Twitter, we always hear Legos is crowded, and Legos is crowded. If you live
in Legos, you know Legos is crowded. As a matter of fact, they do nothing in legos in the next ten years, You're not going to be able to move around the legos. To go from LeKi to say Ecuu do by four pm is a death sentence. Really, it's it's the traffic, is that tic? So what you do if you're a CEO and you have to project and you have to invest in one project that the market was there, it's a developed market. You want to go into that market and expand that market. What should you do?
Should you go to the developed market or should you invest moneys in developing new markets for you to also grow organically or should you do both? You can't argue. If you argue that we should only developed established market, then no foreign firm will come to Nigeria. Exonomobile, forward of Boeing, all those comment own in Nigeria. They don't
need the Nigerian market. They have a market in Western Europe, in Asia, but they are here to develop the market because tomorrow this nigern market is going to be big and then they can transit from the matured market that they have in the West towards the Nigerian market. That's the whole idea. So if you argue that we should invest only in Legos. Because Legos is where the market is. Then what happens when that market in Legos becomes matured.
If you look at the port numbers, nearly eighty percent of the import and export go through the paper port. From a paper port out of Legos is one express road and one railway, just one. So just look at the national security implications that if that road, whatever happens, if that road is sort of blocked by natural means, maybe so we have a flawed or whatever, then eighty percent of our imports and our export don't go out. So ignore even the federal character part of it. You
are putting all your eggs in one basket. You can't say develop just one part because that's where the market is, so that's where the airport's traffic is. If you develop all the other markets and all the clusters, then the market does spread out to those clusters and then you can grow the economy pan Nigeria globally. It's not a hard concept to grasp right to say we will only go to invest in where it's established. I don't think it passes the smell test. It doesn't pass the fact test,
it doesn't pass the constitutional test. It doesn't pass the economics business test. No business will say I'm going to invest in one shop if I have a shopping on a chair, have a shopping legos, have a shopping jobs. You say, I'm only going to invest in the shop I make my biggest seals, and I'm going to ignore the other shops because I make my biggest What about the other shops? Is I do know to grow your subsidiaries to grow as high as your mean? Okay, Like
I've spoken a lot, let me stop here. I know I've got a bla he wants to speak, and most of you, guys, I can receive your DMS already, I know. Let's try to make it. You know, I'm going to be very very open to hear your opinions. Like nobody's wrong. So let's hear you guys. I'd lie. How are you doing? Thanks for hopping in here. What's your take on what we're talking about? Infrastructure and the spread? Should we use federal character to do infrastructure? Apply? What do you think.
I'd like him?
You got on mute my brother, and then you can speak. All right, let's that's a gospel gospel r X. How are you gospel? Okay? I've got gospel, I've got Abdullah here. I'm so sorry. Please go ahead, good good evening for everywhere.
Wherever in the world.
That's like, how how are you? How are you doing today? If you speak up, I would love it. Where you're calling it.
From, I'm calling you from Nigeria.
Okay? Perfect? What's your take on the topic. It's a wide topic, but what we want to focus.
On, Like the topic is like leg talk about his per structure, spending and better.
Character in Nigeria.
So what I'm trying to say is that the infrastructure is the fault or is this spending all the difficulits in the given contract to the contrast sour those.
Are genius or both the consign that we as niger we should be more.
I think the main concern is that some some folks in regions outside Legos feel that the federal development is not getting too their regions. We have all we let's look at us at ports. For instance, we have three ports in Niger that are functional. Then we have the on air, so we have on air and the three ports, and the three ports are in Legos and we're building a brand new port in Legos. We're also expanding the
ports in the paper. But so folks are asking, why are we're putting everything in just one region and over crowding directionion, why don't we develop the dou port, the caliber port, make them as big as a paper. Abia has no ports, They can't have a port. I don't think they are seaborne. But do has a port? Worri has a port, Calabar has a port. Yeah, that's the point.
So what what's your take on this? Do you do you feel this less developed legos make it really large and more than or do you think spread that's what about the federal character. That's where we're you're talking about.
Legos. So like the president is concerned, like it's not.
That it's not it's not the developing legos. It's just developing himself.
That's what I would say, because they will say they are collected revenue.
Who is collecting revenue?
And probably.
Seems that the go ahead, go ahead, real quick, go ahead, second, go ahead, real quick.
Random everybody knows how everybody know how the revenue is generated and how it goes. So we have Nagia in particular, every everybody has has in every state or every part of you like you have spending problem. Everoul politicians that you want to conte you will say that I want to pull people out of poverty like an.
Hello, I'm still am.
I yes, round up, I'm sorry about that.
Okay.
So, like I think we have to go back to the table and this everybody should be sincere to inself. It's either we are really like want to develop ourselves or want to keep ourselves in poverty, or we are leaving concerned because we are Annia. Everybody will say I'm Muslim, I'm Chrystal, or I'm from Dysuli, I'm from that.
So to even talk to.
Each other people, I think as something has ship or something that you should be so I can or to behave anyhow to somebody or to so that there we have as in communications like communications is very concerning myself someone do we talk to someone or in a serviss manner that you MA can understand what you are trying to explain.
People are finding.
Difficult because they're out of school, as in all those things are the now new way am I Like I'm seeing people that are know have the opportunity to go to school is denying from them as in they are just learning about food is a major concern that people that wake up they don't know where they will.
Let me ask let me ask you a question, who do you Who do you think in relationships which will hold for food and education? Is it the president or your governor? Like your governor is in charge of food, is in charge of education? Who do you think is responsible in your states? Who interview.
My governor now for this that his collecting state location? So how is he spending? Let me it's not like I'm trying to governor like this woman, this person, I don't know where he's heading to before like they used to keep every governor. He's trying, no matter how, students to get their scholarship all this like meeting, I don't know,
like how is he doing it? Because even to provide the scholarship now is finding it is becoming difficult to Students's just finding some students there into there are kind of guither people for him.
He would just give them without having it for helm.
So all right, no worries. I'm like, thank you, I appreciate you coming in here. Thank you gospel hop writing. What's your take? Yeah, thank you, pleasure, Yes I can. Good day. We're talking, of course, the infrastructure. We're talking for the characters a white topic. Do you think the present is tilting too much on one side? Do you support the view that we should invest where we already have a established market so that we make those ones more productive. What's your taking all these.
Yeah, definitely, Calor, thanks for being in this topic.
Of course, anybody who knows you know, who can see through the air what is going and knows that what is going on is completely unfortunate. You mentioned it already.
You have legos to the small lested in the country and your carriage, or you already have functional apports in a day, and then you want to see the blow for the airports instead of going down to the south Sea rivers where you have your own airport that you that is barely functioning, and putting them on so you get it functional, or even go as far as Calabau do it will use. The congestion in Legos makes these
goods go faster to different locations, to the shops. The guy in all can get these goods easier closer from Legos from but accordingly weed from reverse from Legos analem cities came.
I'm from Reverse.
Where the resources that is used to make this.
Infrastructure interventions come from.
So I feel very sadly about all of this, to be honest with you, because you have a stitution where there is all over centralization of resources in one place.
And sometimes from what I was thinking, and.
You're wondering, oh, are you sure we don't have an ulterior motive in all of this? What if they're planning for maybe a post if you like Nigeria United Nigeria after dinner. I hope this doesn't happen anyway, but I mean some people are starting to think in that direction as well, because the other centralization is not good for us at all.
You talk about federal character.
Of course we've seen, you know, nepotism in full bloody like display and people are not happy about it. But some people will tell you. For example, I was reading saying that we did not cry about it, you know, yet they were. They cry about it to they're referring to the body government and maybe he's looking to some power brothers from the not but generally what is bad. It's bad because if you nursy because they did not
complain during Bohari, so they should not complain now. Hard by tomorrow some guy from the southeast comes in and then he takes everything to the southeast. Is that how we are going to agree country? If it goes that with someone in our country or not? Is that everybody appointed comes from this region? The country can nor move forward in that kind of situation. And then I want to do, you know, talk on this point before I forget in your from your research. Have you ever seen
a situation in this country? Have you ever happened in this country that they fund is you know?
And the fund is created outside of the.
Normal government channels, that is not administard or overcited by National Assembly. Before this the new whole phone, Is this something that has happened before any time? Just trying to see this any place they picked up label from.
No.
The nearest collection was when bo Harry did the access the President's infrastructure fund. When you when President Barry was fighting with Master Saraki, he went to borrow twenty two billion, the same thing that has happened, right you go back in history present. Bo Harry wanted to borrow twenty two billion dollars. Nationals Sembly said no. So what they do is to take the dividends from Nigelalic financial girts which were paid in dollars plus other independence revenues, and they
put in the particular phone. They then use that particular phone to spend by pass nationals. And that's what the same template that presidentbu is doing. He's just basically maximized on steroids. So you can see the amount of money in there is enormous. That it has more money than the budget. You know, it's it's crazy. Yeah, that's where we are.
I don't know, man, I really I read about it that I'm just starting to wonder.
I mean, what kind of country. It just looks like this country is a.
Complete banana republic, because all we.
Are saying that is that you just it's something you watch in the movie and you think maybe it can never happen, because how can you have more phones like you said in the in the in the system that nobody checks, nobody knows how they spend when I have to show in this country, well for example, now big contrast that I you know, projects that I want billions of dollars and if you like, and nobody in those who is bidding for this contract.
The processes it goes through.
It just one money and where that the contract and awandered and it goes to one particular company, one particular guy. Nigeria has to be very worried about familiar I'm quite to worried Nigeria is this kind of you know, a lot goes on in this country and you don't even know if you want to really continue to talk about it or you just want to, you know, remove your mind from it, because if you think about this much, for me sometimes it gets me really.
Really really.
Just to be clear, I know you say that from rivers you would prefer they spread it or because the argument I'll come back to you to say reverse has on their right and the government I know is investing in on air. We have the three in legos and they are al the biggest three in legos. So just to be clear those two legos. Are you saying we should invest in their legos or invest in only live legos or do new ones? What would you where would you fall?
I think we should spread our hands for that to the other parts of the country because if we look at it, even though you do not invest so much in the current parts in legos, they can if can you open some import portapots important and do it openly port in Calabar, I mean inland seaports, and maybe you go to where they're not dry a pot.
It's going to reduce the pressure they want.
The Legos fits, so the infrastructual there may be able to cooky with the other assistant from sister ports from other parts.
Of the country. It's also going to make very good to the southern part.
Of the AIA is here.
It's also going to save our roads from the essensive movement of large trops on your road, destroying the road and you know, making the place not fit for purpose for smaller travelers on your road.
And I wanted to make this talk about it before I hang.
Clee, do you can you can you wrap your head there?
I know somebody some people recently have started pacing the legal Calabar where somebody was saying.
If if you've been.
An ar road before, you content to pray for Tamable because it's the congested movement of you know, going to his own office.
Within regods and legos as this.
But I know to be a cad that there is no good root from Legos to a Buja. You cannot go on any good root. I'm talking about good room and Najeria's standard. You cannot travel on any good root from Legos to Abuja, the commercial cabetter and the national capital.
There is no good route between Legos.
To Protacles or a Protaco to none.
You cannot pass. If you're going from a Budja to Protacle, you can not pass. From a door you can get, you cannot pass, and they do in the good there's no good root. You cannot pass Google and then the roots are not good as we speak today are one of the most importance.
You know, city centers in Nigeria.
No good root. You cannot travel on these roots.
I'm not even talking about this again security, but I'm not talking about the quality of the root.
Can you wrap your head is yeah?
Any way you can justify living, you know, putting is three roots.
I mentioned Legos to Sorry.
Legos to Abuja to Protact and even to Protact to Legos via the East West Room. It is also not passive by my way because my community is along alonger access. Is there any justification in your mind why additions should not be paid on building a proper route from Legos to Abuja and Abuja to Protacto or protact to Legos and then channeling trigions of Nigeria to open up.
Legos to Calabaca.
It just is there anyway makes sense to you, I would like to.
Look at it this way, right. So, the most important economic coluse in Nigeria is the east to West trade route, the east to West trade route, and the British do not build east anything East to West. The British built not to start because they were exporting. So you have Cano to Legos railway, you have Maju Gride to Protacot railway. They are exporting everything out of the port. We're not
interesting intra trade of Nigeria. But if you connect the east to West, your trade and your GDP goes up because now you're connecting the economic bells in that southern area, the ports where there's a lot of commerce. That's why we have what's called the East to West road. It's been it's one of the longest perks we've had in Nigeria to connect the Legos ports to the ports of Dull Worry, arithmetic Alabat We then spurs to the Eastern States.
It is the longest, one of the longest person has done. It's not been completed. My issue with the new Coastal Road is that it's a duplication of that East West Road. It's already existing. If they have focused on built on completing the East West Road, then they would have done it. What they've done with the Coastal Road is to start the Coastal Road now from from Lecky right and then to have a new road, which is which is fantastic.
That new road is fantastic to it to sort of open up the transportation in Legos, bring more productivity in Legos. To go from Legos all the way to Uguan state that person is on. You can't fault it. It helps productivity in the state of Legos. The problem is sent that road as Lecky to Calabar Road. I've made a tweet before that that road can get company in ten years. People are coming up and saying, oh, it's a bad Caramera.
No.
If you go ever have the time to go on the East to West road, it's a lot of bridges from Legos. Legos itself is a swamp. Remember if you know Legos very well from Exxonmobile that was all swamp and it's this swamp and you're gonna get from Legos Old Way to Calibar, So you're gonna build nearly fifty bridges. If you're gonna go from Legos Old Way to Caliber fifty at the minimum, you've never got to Naga Delta. It's called Delta. The name is Delta. Google what delta means.
So you either have to That's why the East West Road did not go to the Delta. It stayed inland to reduce the amount of bridges that they would build. So I think that's the only problem I have with this is to where should the honest is speaking that they are selling someone that's not going to be completed. There is no way you're going to build this road in ten years. It's just not possible because the number
of bridges that we've done. But in terms of the Legos access, the one they built from Lekki to the border of Ugan State makes perfect sense. It's helped productivity in Legos. But they shouldchange to take the money and complete the East to West road and like you said, also complete the existing road. The most important roads in Nigeria are also those roads that take Rice from Kebby
all the way back to Legos, back to Portaga. How you reduce inflation If there's food cheaper in the cities, then of course food inflation faults and fully is expensive. Not because we don't have harvests, but the productivity to move those harvests from the fields to the cities is absent. So gos. But I hope I answered the question from the right way in that right perfect Let's go to ad dealer. A dealer, you've got the floor. Go ahead, sir Gospel, thanks so much for that question. A dealer,
Auto dealer, you've got the floor. Auto dealer, let's get are your DJ hey ID six six foot three inches? Is that's what it means? I use six foot three inches.
I dig.
I a dig going once, going twice. Bology are you doing?
I'm fine?
Please go ahead, so I will fixed. I will fix your audio, fix your order, and don't give me toms on a back. Fix your order and give me ms of a back. Bollogy, please go ahead, bology bog Okay, I can, yes, I can say, go.
Ahead, okay. Thank you for what's in this space. This is very interesting topic.
Yeah.
Well, I will like to because personally, for me, I'm kind of person I like to under issue from the from I think critically about an issue, then kind of under it from the roots. I think we we have a fundamental problem in Nigeria which is actually.
Causing a big issue for us.
Although it's a political issue and I know I don't know how we can go about it, but I believe that until we are able to sort out things like that, but I'm not able to get out of the quagma that we are. For example, our political system is actually well actually brought up these kind of issues that we're having, for example, like the further character issue that if you want to have an efficient system, it should not be having it's a problem.
From the end of it.
I can hear him, You can hear him. You can let me ask somebody else anana. Can you hear Can you hear bology? Just asking? Can you hear boog? Can anybody hear apology?
That's okay?
Can you hear me?
Yes?
If you go out and come back, and I guess it's just you. If you log out and come back, you shop to him. But you go ahead, okay.
So, as I was saying, when you have a system there is not efficient, so it creates a kind of lied to symptoms that you are going to be dealing with and eventually the overall productivity will every day. So because we have a system that things that to solve a particular problem, you need to create another way of fixing it, which for example, is like you are trying to fix a problem and that you are. This feral character idea is a way we are trying to balance out. Okay,
this region is not have doing so much. Let us try to package ourselves and spread this thing out well in an if you look, for example, I'll give you an example of a private company. If you have a private company, as a business owner, you're expecting maximum performance from all your departments. You're not thinking of using your human resources to cover up the inefficiency of the production department. That's why we have issues that we have to Okay, look at so we need to design this.
We need to look at the program and naginia from the root.
This fair character issue is what is causing lop sided appointment here and there, and it's not bringing unit and whenever.
Wherever you don't have unity, you're not.
Going to make appropriate Yeah, but specific to specific to projects when I'm talking about it, maybe the employment like is it okay. Is it okay for the president to spend moneys five? Look at again, look at this point the Ministry of Aviation's budget. If you add that to the Ministry of Transportations budget, it is not up to
what the president is spending on just one airport. The justification for the president that listen this is this is the Marquee Airport is the number one airport in terms of flight coming in, flight going out, import comedy imports going out, so we should invest that amount and that they are also going to be investment in other airports. So the question to you is that is are we okay spending seven hundred and twelve billion more than the budget of visional transport or one airport or should they
be spread? I mean, okay, if you do it's spread, it won't spend seven hundred and twenty one airport. That's where I'm going to get you on.
So I don't believe we should spend all that kind of amounts on a single airport. Because when I saw the news of spending that kind of amount on the event and somebody mentioned and newly built in the country in Asia, I think Techo International.
Airport and.
In Cambodia.
Yeah.
Yeah, the overall courset was really really I don't know, I'm more volume Diepo Airport is doing correctly. But like he rightly said, resources should be should be kind of issue. It should be spread around so that there could be every every part of the country would be able to grow organically instead of focusing.
On one part of the country. And this brings me b back to.
The initial point I made about the kind of policecar system we have in Nigeria and what it's always When.
Warri was in government, Warri was like it.
Looks to a part of the country like Okay, Barr is doing things for himself and it's people.
He's doing it for the northern people.
We've had we had this system Nigeria has been in existence from nineteen sixty. If we look at whether the democratic government or military government, it has always been like Okay, whoever is in position would focus on one area.
For example, the military guys, they.
Located the most of the prastructor of the country.
In the north.
I'm talking about the defense and the security in prastructors.
Now it's as a is in government, the same thing is happening.
It's focusing on one region, may not one region, but it's always been on our region. So it's like you said, it's not supposed to be, and I agree with you that it is not supposed to be, but we're saying that it's not supposed to be. I don't believe it's going to sort anything, because the fundamental issue.
Is always going to be there.
I believe that if we have any body from any part of the country again now that part that that person likely, even if that person doesn't want to do it, the people suppose surrounding him will probably give him.
That idea that that's that's a good point to your bridge, that the next guy that is going to come to night, he will simply pass a budject of ten Nira and then put the whole budjet in the fund that he would control.
Yeah, it looks like a pattern now, and he's generating a lot of distrust around us.
And like a.
Speaker that suppoke before me, he said that, okay, he mentioned one line of thoughts, and I don't want to I don't know if he could be right or wrong, but he said that, Okay, we don't even know what these guys are planning. Maybe they're planning to get out of Nigeria.
That's why they're doing all these things.
You see, he's already generating a kind of distrust in the entire federation.
His question is.
Right, it's actually right to ask that kind of question. But now imagine somebody from another origional gets into power. That would be even if in his mind he doesn't want to do that kind of thing, that would be the suggestion that would be presented to him and advice that would be given to him.
That's what he will be thinking. Okay, let me into this, my people.
I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, I mean that's the point again, you know, the pastest precedent, you know, like when Harry did started this, and now it's been super charged. Who knows what the other guy will do whatever, I will stop it, or I will also supercharge it and create it. It is on the phone to go more this. Let me go back to you. Have you fixed that audio? Let's have you go ahead? Can yes? I can swer go ahead?
So I agree with everyone. My name is Michael.
And so he got a new topic and I'm talking.
About it as such a spending a character. So I won't say there's there's.
Bias, there's answer bias like the most investments going to the sad waste with John and both considering what I've read online because normally follow news on two dates.
On the loan the Presidency get from I don't really get it loan from, but I think from.
Different banks, from all banks and things. So and I think the START was able to get three billions for the RIVERA.
I don't know if that is true, but I saw something like that and I saw whether I was just following the they really wanted to spend the money. But is more of the money was concentrated in the START West region.
Yeah, it's it's a lot of bits of the only only give you what I do want. I did my research on the Renewed Hope in first Structured Development Fund about five projects here the Legos Airport seven hundred and twelve billion. They are doing other airport, but what they have and now that they want to do seven hundred and that has been approved by the Projective Council. That the Legals to Calorber Coastal Highway again south southwest. This go to the Badagar Expressway again southwest, the Legos to
Cano Railway and of course the Eastern railway. That's what I'm referring to. So it's gonna be the Eastern railway. There's gonna be Legos to Conter railway. So it's a does my ma characters about seventy to thirty and the seventies not southwest. It's Legos again. If you add, if you add the two billions, there's a two billion that is going to go to the light railing Legos. So there's two billion. Yeah, this is dollars, not naira. Two billion dollars about three point two trillion for the Legos
light trail. I assume Legos light trail was funded by the Legos government all this while. But then I'm going to get a bailout from the federal government for I mean they should because that rail. Of course, again it improves productivity in Legos. Legos is a commercial capital of Nigeria, so I get the economic side of it. I'm not against it. I am saying do the same in other regions.
The same place you got two billion for Legos to light trail, you can also get the same one billion for a light really important court or you completed light trail in that's my point. I'm not for cancel this one. I'm saying if we can get the money to do all this in one state, then we have the money to do it in other states. So I did you know that's the data I have?
Yeah, okay, okay, I get makes sense for you. It makes sense absolutely, all right. Let's and one wanting and because the pots and the deepsy pots. Yeah, but I'm thinking that in states can also and collectively and maybe regions and politically and then maybe the further government can.
Like push it.
Maybe when the state government and the governments maybe of.
The particular region putdance together.
You fail, the government can look into it and push them.
You are correct, You're very correct. The Legos Deep Sea Port is a private sector port by private sector guys in the rama. The guys that do the windles and all that, they are ones that didn't own that port, but the partnered with Lego States, so Lego City has twenty percent equiting that port. But it's a private sector port. Then of course, because Nigerian government is the one all middle that owns ports, NP is also there, so it's
an federal state and private sector. Aquir Bomb is also doing a deep sea port an Aquibum has the money to build that deep seaport. So you wonder how Aquibum has not been able to fast track their own deep sepport. You can't blame Legos. You know, they may to fast track their port before and we became president and build it. So these states that have natural I think it's at a back or so deep sea port. It's a natural harbor.
They have the money obviously, so you want to ask why they are not, you know, focusing on getting that deep sea pot off the ground. Idegity, But good point there. Let me get on, Nana. I do thank you so much, Ananda, You've got the fanah I can hear.
Yes, I'm doing everyone on. This has been a very one of the space. I love how you do everything.
I want to say.
It's just that.
There is this thing.
You gotta fix your audio. You gotta fix your audio. And I think that order to come back to me with your hands up right, let's do checker checker checker facts go ahead, and when you fix I would just give me your hands about you back checker go ahead.
Yeah.
You know my Drea for ships me sometimes and sometimes I'm thinking, is this by design? Is this geopolitical actors at play, because.
Why in the hell are we spending money on refurbishing a damn airport when we don't have power. I don't care about anything else in this country. I don't know why everyone gaslights us and makes this thingm like us, Nigerians, we don't have a brain. If we want to be an industrialized first world nation, we need power.
We don't need generators.
We can blame state governments.
We can do whatever we.
Want to do, but we need help with distribution, we need help with transmission. It's almost as if we've given up on the power sector. It's weird, like we need roads and power.
If I'm president, I will not do anything outside of power and roads. Not an airport, not an auditorium, not creating a presidential library, not nothing else, mattas in Nigeria, outside of creating power.
And I have to just think to myself, is there's some kind of conspiracy going on? Because the same five thousand Maygols.
We've been dragon since I with porn.
It's what we're dealing with in.
Twenty twenty five, and I guess nobody talks about it. We just talked about GMOs, talk about all this other nonsense. But we don't have lights and we have two hundred plus million people, you know, so I.
Don't know what has to happen.
I don't know why we are not allowed to generate more power and distribute more power than what we have now. I don't know why no state governments.
It almost feels like whenever it's in the Blue transferred.
The right to generate power to the states.
It's almost as if he was gas lighting guests and saying, we're actually never going to try to fix power. Ever, I don't hear any update on this Semen's thing that's taking decades upon decades to complete. I don't see or hear about any improvement on the power sector. That's the only infrastructure that matters. Everything else matters the multiples, the economics multiples that can be derived from improving our power generation.
It's obvious that our whole brain capacity, in our whole infrastructure budgets should be focused on generating power because that has the greatest multiples to grow our economy.
The combat is going to be that we can chew them and walk at the same time. We can do power.
We can't.
We can't treat what we cannot. We can't treat governmental Sorry to job space. Sorry, I'm a little passionate. We we haven't proven that we can't do that. Let's start by chewing gum. We struggle, we're to go. We start bleeding with christ Sometimes we check and then sometimes we try to check them and walk over ourselves.
Basic things we can't do. If I forget to go, can we just walk?
I hear you you're talking about riding your bike? Which ba can we go?
Which?
Hey, it's frustrating how many manufactions have closed the Nigeria this year alone.
Yeah, I mean, but again, let me come out to you with fact again. Like I read a report last week again to goo they deport next to us is now where cargo is diverting into Togo from America, from Russia and Nigera become the infrastructure decay in Nigeria. So this these investments are to prop up the logistics based in Nigeria. If we if we don't do it and we wait to fix power first, and everything's gonna go, so we will we can import our own stuff forget
for us. Even were Nigeria are wanting podcasts or whatever, are gonna pay more for the bad infrastructure. So I hear you. We can walk and trigg them at the same time, but there has to be some investments done to at least, you know, sort of properly. What's your You're still don't agree.
Why are we going to Why are we going to Togo when we just did a deep seaport and lakers and a laky deep seapport.
Someone's gas lighting as niger Someone is just someone has missed with our intelligence.
Not going to candel The Furias are going to to Goo. That's not the Nigeria. The Forias are going to to go to offloading to go and then to ship it into Nigeria than coming.
To They're going to Togo instead of coming to Nigeria when we have a new deep seaport.
Because the fastest in Togo are better and it's cheaper in Togo than Nigeria.
It's better built. Just builty, We're just built it.
That's what I didn't say, So I'm quoting.
What you know.
I know that's what you're quote to what they say.
But I'm just like.
Something that's let me bring in, let me bring in regenerated. You were saying, that's not it. Why are they going to to Goo.
Sorry for interducing so so so, Nigeria doesn't.
Have a box stations and every big that comes to Nigeria have to go on the feeling to go.
That's what?
What?
What? What?
What?
What's book? What's that?
What kind of We don't have a bunker station, a bunker station where we can failed.
We don't refill our ship in Nigeria. That's the males.
I don't know, I don't think. So are you saying that Togo has Now you said that Togo has something called bunkering in that Togo port.
That has absolutely what is that bunk There is nowhere.
In the where you can fail refeel what.
We fill the diesel.
But to the big, to the big versil that comes to Nigeria.
Togo has diesel to refill. I'm sorry, I'm not I'm trying to learn. So you said Togo has Togo can bunker the vessels are their port, but Nigeria cannot.
Okay, exact you can find you can find that house.
I will do some research. I don't know, but what I know is Togo has been building this port specifically for the Nigerian market and the tonnage that they offer is more than Nigerian tonnage. They have more of these overhead cranes than the Nigerian cranes. So apart from the bank creen you're talking about, they've built a port to take advantage of the inefficiencies in Nigerian port Togo. That's what they've done, and the Russians have signed a deep
agreement with them. The Americans are also going there, so I don't think it's just because they can bonker. I mean, the deep sport is different from the Togo port. It's on the sea show. The deep support is on the high sea. This is the port in Togo and they
are saying that they preferred to go there. Some put the report out I think it was who put the report out on Twitter that said if you go to Ghana you pay fifteen thousand dollars for your ship, but niger is a one hundred and fifty thousand ERA per
ship to offload. We totally this week, So why would anyone come to Nigeria and pay one hundred FO nine when you can go to Ghana or fload and they just highre nine one one truck and move to Nigeria under the African Content Free trade agreement, so we're also expensive. Same thing with our airport. If you're landing in our airport, you pay more for landing tries than if you're land in say Ghana, Bene or Togo and all that. So it seems like we're pricing ourselves out of the markets region.
Do you have any any take on that or you think it's just the epoch and we're not just prising ourselves out as well?
Is it higher demand means the price will go up? No?
No, no, no, They're obviously doing more capacity than us. Togo is doing more capacity than Legos, but they are charging lower samething with Ghana, they are charging lower than Nigeria Air and Sea.
Yes, I think that's exactly the reason.
Yeah, all right, so let's let's just move on. When I do thank you? So wait, he did drop jarity. What was your Did you want to have a comment a pert from you? I know you came up, but do you have a comment to make?
Yes, I want to have another new way of the reasoning. And I think it's might look so.
Untrue because happened that I've seen, So this is kind of I'm in the great I'm in the blue economy.
Space right.
I work closely with the founder of the Blue economy in the world, professor Bulta Poling, And one of the opportunities we should be looking at right away now is I know they are trying to revive the Ajacuta for steal production now, but I don't know at what points we can quickly forget about it if sid initiated and focus on building our own shipping industry, which I think that's one of the core areas of the blue economy.
But people we argued as we are.
Not compete with advantage in terms of ship building and and you are compared to developed country.
But there is a new.
Thinking globally in IMO focusing on the carbonation of the shipping industry. And you're focusing on the inland and interstate with more of regional ship not the bigger vessel at the moment, So how do we the carbalizers. We are not focusing on the battery or litheon or whatever shape, but using hydrogen, which I think we have comparted the advantage of most of our ten thousand kilometers away we haven't.
We have a carbon issue.
To carbon editions.
These people are trying community.
People, but I say how much do we let him him, let him come in here.
We are coming there, I'm coming there.
So basically, when you look at the opportunity of the hydrogen, if my looks is when I started a submission, it might look like that. Oh it's looks on true right or nonreil, but it's the reality of countries moving into that.
We'll talk about the climating.
But let's talk about the opportunities that we have here and focusing on Nigeria in terms of what do we need to do next. So imagine us unlocking our inland water transportations. He talks about carrying nine one from to Go past to whatever you want.
To pass through because of obitraation.
But I can tell you.
From to Go to Legos it's lesser than one hour tective minutes by water.
So how do we look into that? From Legos to Undo it's lesser than two.
Hours on top of water.
So how do we unlock all those opportunities?
Right?
Forget about the dredging. There are low draft vessels that.
Can carry passengers and goes of one point four drafts right away that people have been started building. So if you focus on reviving the Jacuta I'm focusing on making more carbon fiber, which might we have most of nitive present of the resources of making carbon fiber, which makes it more comporied advantage.
We can along the inland.
And start picking goods from the bigger vessel and distributes and what that's gonna happen.
You're going to have.
More opportunity coming in some inland ports and we are going to have more jetties. When you have more jetties and you focused on the hydrogen, you have new energies that you're talking about infrastructure. JERMANEY is developing five mega out.
Of hydrogen for different countries. There's nothing stopping us from.
Having a concertion of partnership with GERMANEY. Look at Decidergy place in the Niger data that have more of a seawater and you put your hydrogen five megawat there and you can produce shiplates with your own national ship whatever or people can come and invest in that kind of industry.
That is the other way to go.
But makely that is from the other perspective of we want to start working on.
Deep c in all this area.
It's not a completely advantage for bigger versus comsse.
I think there's a great point there. You're basically saying, listen, it's sead of us chasing the deep sea that is capital intensive, big, big, big, We can do more of
the inland bardges. We're saying, we're having German just sort of where we get those bardges, move the continents into going into worldy, into a nature on those bardges where we will develop more inland ports than focusing on taking a billion dollars to do a deep sea port or taking one hundred million dollars to do twenty inland port. I think it's a great idea you bring up and again so I think I like that. Thanks for that suggestion. Also, I did look up the Togo bunkering and you're right.
It says in Togo they are able to refuel these big ships at sea. Togo can do that. Nigeria cannot. Nigeria is amazing. So while we why are we the giant of anything? If Togo is able to refuel ships at sea, so Nigerian ships go to Togo to get refueled, we don't have it. I'm amazed. And Nigera is walking to become a hob. So we're trying to set up our own m app R, which is Marine Petrol on product retailer opperationis why don't we have this? We have crude oil, we have an NPC. Why don't we have
this bunkering? Why is to go with no crude oil having bunkering.
And we don't.
Do you have any idea regerative?
Why? Frankly speaking, I don't think I have much idea.
I just believe that it's.
At of coruptions right, we can do it, not just intentional in terms of having additionality people.
From nineteen from nineteen sixty till to date. Absolutely we can't have a bunkering thingy and Togo has it, to go, next door has it, We don't have it. It doesn't it doesn't strike anyone as weird. I mean, just google it, just put I'll share it. Let me share it on on Twite, on Twitter. I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe I need to do more work on this. But why would they have it and we don't have it and they don't even have crude oil? Makes no sense?
But yeah, I think I have an idea.
Why share? Please?
I think it's in terms of priority, if very if you visited to go. There's something special about to go.
I just have to go sometimes.
Last year, if you visit, you discovered that in Togo most of the roads, these roads are tired. Most of the rules are tacked. The major rules are tacked, but the street roots are not tired. Anyone who took tests to what I'm saying. The major rules are tired, but all the truth in Lomit, the capital to are not tired. Telling you that this will put priority above every other Nike Nigeria.
Interesting, I mean, it's interesting. It's interesting though. Yeah, I'm just thinkings at that.
If you go to the hospital, I was opportunity to use all of the their public health care. I discovered that if the finally, if we get there, everything you see there are basic things from furnitures, the furnitures we use back then in the eighties in Nigeria, those booting furnitures, that is what doctors use, or the service at the services you get there. You can't compare Tony. I think it can compare with at least obviously we'll find you in the world. So this will put they put parity
above every other thing. And that is the problem we have in Nigeria. The question we should ask ourselves. Do we want to be an industrialized nation or we just want to plead to the glory because we want to be an industrialization.
There are things we need to address. There are basic things we need to address.
The way we spend for infrastructure and the way we go about it's not the.
Way we should go about it.
It doesn't matter with the president because if you look at in twenty fourteen when good Luck was the president, most of the key infrastructure he invested in they are not driven by economic modules and where it came repeated the same thing and he's doing the same thing.
For those those who know the train.
That connects Abuja to card that projects it was funded by a loan. But if you look at it the economy that thing brings to Nigeria, it's little or nothing, the dital or nothing. If we really want to if you really want to do it, trade, we should do train, run, trail, lies to wear they really matter.
You had, they will they will have the GDP.
If we want to build airports, the airports who have ruled are enough because I remember when I used even the same airport in Lomait. If you visit that airport in Lomba. I think the efport you compared to Nigeria with baby anybody has used that of a pible.
You can compare what you have in mail with what you have in it.
Fortunately, even the same seaports they have in Lomo.
Nigeria's will have a priority.
Problay.
Our leaders don't invest in key things that has simulate the economy with true money. But true money a way we had the spending pro blayer.
I mean, I hear you. I mean if you look at the reels, I always tell you that the reels you see today were built by the British. The rail lines today you see today from Legos to karen Amda, Canoe Kapanchan, then Middle Gray back to Emo then back to Port. But we're built by the British. Nigeria has built the Canoe sorry to Carnal standard gauge, and then we build the Attack to a Worry standard gauge and
the Legos to a bad On standard gauge. The Attack, by to your Warrior standard gage is a bridge or a reel to nowhere is not. It doesn't connect to any real network in Nigeria. It's just in the middle of Nigeria doing nothing because it wasn't supposed to be a commercial really, but like you said, we we did it because of politics. We wanted to score a wain, so we developed that railway, ignored the other one, and here we are. But I see find it strange just to go back to this Togo thing that n NPC.
We have shell, we have eggs on, we have the port in Legos. We're the largest economy in Africa. We didn't have this bonkering thing. I mean, I just shared what I saw on social Maybe somebody will have a better explanation. But on social media, I just asked grow it's a compliment. We don't have it, I put on Twitter. So if we don't have, what are we doing with the money? Is said, there's no planning. We don't know
that ships need fuel to go out. I'm not not an expert here, but I'm just it's strange to me that small Togo can think outside the box and we don't with n NPC and the rest. It's strange to me. Modest too, How are you doing, sir? Yeah? What's he about it?
Yes, I've been listening from the beginning. I think on that particle, I issued. I will go a little bit more controversial. It's about the JV agreement we have. Sometimes when you have this sut of agreements, you know, in chype of your obstreme sector, those who have priorities, they shift the authorities where.
They want and you don't have anything.
I mean.
Just the career around for example, all the things that they put into refining, grilling, every equipment, every missionary. It's made in their country from beginning to end, top to bottom. You know, they even do more advanced off in the oil industry because they are in charge. But if you have to pay somebody to bring that your oil, I mean, it's so funny. Sometimes we haven't even I don't think I want National Assembly has.
Even talked about it even for one day.
That's you.
It's that, um, you have a good in your fam and then somebody come and tell you, oh, no, I know you have a good in die your family.
Don't worry.
I will help you bring it out and then I will refine it and then we can share because and then the person will layer all the expenses on bringing it out and saling it for you, and then at the end it tells you, oh, we made only one thousand and we share its sixty forty. That's where we are, you know, it's so painful, but that's where we are, and we have been on that journey for the past seventy years. It doesn't make any sense at all, but
that's where we are. And sometimes we ask for magics, you know, we ask for theatrics, and then we look at we can't even link our energy policy into one policy. All these things we're talking about is supposed to be one policy, one energy policy.
That's what it is. But we can't do that. And it's the total peopleeople know that they rely on Nigeria.
They don't have any market, they know, and then they look for loophos into our system and then they plug into it so that they can sustain themselves as a country, as a viable country.
When you say America said we want to we want to batter our ship in Togu, what does it tell you?
And the problem is that there our people are sitting down there and there shouting on our mandate, which are stand nobody none of them is thinking about that humiliation, that accumulation that somebody tells you, you know that I'm going to go to little Togu because you cannot do this.
I mean, it isn't broken just putting fuel in the ship. I mean it's a big world, but it's just putting the ship.
It doesn't even I'm looking at the symbolism and the principles.
It's not even the issue of that is you know, you can't even bring.
Yourself to understand it that that is what it is, that little Tobo can hold a national security issue against us because it makes no perfect sense. It makes no sense at that even if we need to import some ammunitions or anything, you need to go to Tobo Fest well before.
It comes here.
So it can link into almost all a spaces of financial existence. And the issue is that if not for this place now that people are looking at it and talking about it, you will never hear that in the national discuss the discourse we have all the time, these things we.
Are people have left and we are scratching the battle.
You know, let let me take you back to the topic of today, right. You know, I don't know if you've been phoned the news, how we're with love of announcements. It's not just the seven one two for Legos Airport. We've been having announcements for a long time. The ports in Legos have been renovated, the airport to be innovated, the roads are benovated. Everything seems to be happening in Legos.
Even the Sea Bens had an issue with retiring workers hiring new workers out of their So there's a predominance of off. You see discussion that the administration today is tilted not just to the southwest, specifically to Legos at the detriment of the other region. What's your take on this? Is there a tilt? Should there be a tilt? What's your take?
Yeah?
My take is like the first orconspeaker did talk about the politicization of everything. We politicize economic problems and because whenever you add politics to it, it never gets solved. If the governor in river state understands the resources, the multiply effect of that airport and what it will do to the economy of the state and how it will have a multiply effect. The last time I checked the Chinese, they won't fishing our waters in around the cold bite
of Befa. We don't have him have one fishing you know, you know that's how bad it is. Like somebody talked about the blue economy. Here we just do you know by the issues is that I don't think some people have said for me, I believe in new ideas. And let me go back to the issue of a federal character. The federal character then was put there by the founding, the initial people who looked at the constution of to say, well,
how do we balance development across all regions. How do we enshrine a kind of finance so that people will feel the equity to be pat owners of their destiny, So that people across all religion and across our cities, we have that buy in into the national development.
Because they realized that if that is not.
Done, there will be this incentive because there will be gross inequity, and they're the gross probably the.
This is what I'm looking for.
The.
The disparation between that disparities in terms of access to resources between all all the tribes will be skewed to the major tribes. So that was built in so that you reflect the states, each of these states, and madly because if you reflect each of these states, you reflect all the tribes. To make sure that people have a buying into that national development and the patism that we are looking for. But you can see that over the years if you come from the minorities, it's like you're
being it not you don't have a voice. Until election time comes, somebody will say, oh, we need to go to Benry and then they come to one very big party event and they announced one thing and then that's all that they look for them and then they look into it like it's good that you're talking about this from the infrare toture point of view.
If you go to it to the political point of view, everybody will be on.
Their own because it is what brings national development, It is what bring national unity. It is what brings that issue that we are everybody we feel that they belong. But if it is killed like now they're not are using it against it, so we don't have this, we
don't have that. And then it's trying up and down trying to have meetings with theirs, the one on yesterage on the punch that day, to get to their government, to the natural government is having the meetings with not a lawmakers both past and present, just to let them know that look, we are not ignoring you. The question is is he going to have the same meeting with people from the south side.
No, is it going to have the same.
Meeting with you from the not not central No, because the treat that they don't have any political weights.
They don't. You don't need them.
You know, it's the case of okay, who do we need to survive the next elections?
You know, you know MORESSA admitted to it a long time agoing and I said that if you ever want any project, this, this is your year to get it. If you are in the north, you want any project today, you get it now. And it's because the man is the main thing that I think Present has gotten a bit wrong in my view, is that he is this politics in he made it too early. You know, bason't just first termes you go back to a Bason just first term. He didn't get a lot done in his
first term because he was playing this. You know, he was put in there by the PDP in like ninety nine. He had his Minister of Finance was some geriatric guy. You know, nothingly what major was going on. He was
just going along the ropes. His second term is when he caught fire, and you know he tried to, hey, let us get this thing, let us you know, let us you know, building, he's pasted all this pension reform GS and everything second term, and he realized he had no time by fot by his by his eight years, he wanted a third term. I hope it's not going
to happen to president. But where he spent his one year allowing ministers that have no business being ministers to remain in office, and then he realizes in his fourth year or in his sixty year that listen, I need more time because it's almost like the man wants to work. He just has some ministers that are just doing not who's the mister of agriculture just doing nothing?
You know?
So in a way, so started fuse for the guy. But it's almost like there's too much politics in the too much politics in the Why now, why are we having all these things now? Every second tem Why are we inviting people to you know, it's almost like everything now with politics, why we're not focused on if we're only talking about infrastructure, it's even okay, but everything is just second you know, I don't know.
Yeah that love, Yeah, let me.
A random plow that you can about that you can have. I think the only thing I can say in it is largely people. Many people have I would probably let me orgin and during that that he's got the at of them. Here, we have a country to you have no other country. Our brother hare have laid out invision for something that maybe if you're here and you have the ear of any politician, just let it know that there is a blue economy.
There is another way of doing stuff. I like to there is another way you can look at it.
I prefer economic independence. And some people will say, oh, look when are people if you're listening to them, got on to TikTok or they talk about all these other countries. Indonesia has to arune seven something million people. A primary school teacher salary in Indonesia is a thousand, two hundred dollars in US dollars. That they have two hundred and several ort a million people. It's not that it cannot
be done. We cannot pretend as if we are unique in this global space, that our problems are unique, that our solutions are not there. We can't even have them. We can have all these things we can. Just let's let's find out what people are doing. How did they do how did they do it? Do they have energy independence? How do we have our own energy independence?
Do we have?
Do they want an education from all their law ones or their young ones?
How do we do that?
We do that? We do this? Sad the elderly ones? Do they have pensions?
How do they do it? Well?
Copy That's not the wrong in copying policies, That's what countries do. But sometimes our own discourses like we are.
On our own.
Oh we were connected by the British everybody goes there. Or we have a wrong constitution. Everybody focus on that, or we have this, everybody focus on that. Nobody's acting themselves. How do these other people who have the same history with us, how do they move away from where they are to where they are now? I think we need to begin to look into that, and people should please if politic policy doesn't solve the economic problems.
You know we are now in the world of AI.
We're not even discussing how you displace jobs if we don't have electric, how we we have internet?
How do we have AI?
When these countries have moved farther away from us, then what will happen to our children? We are with their work? You know, people are going far away nobody's going to wait for us. So like your brother year I was SUPERSI a bad power. We need to make power cheap. We don't even need to say, oh, you are in band eight hundred thousand. We are in band bill two hundred thousand.
We need to make it cheap.
It needs to be affordable to the common man. The recharge card woman that's on the highway should be able to afford to having electricity based on her income. Can't you be theiastic but difful thing that the power is only for fully bland. They can have to the fire powerus and then those ones that are in my town nothing for them. Then we are not moving anywhere.
Thank you appreciate that, I really do. I appreciate the comments also from gentlemen. I spoke about the report. I hope we can write little article and sense so we can share. Others can basically follow Lewis Show. How are you doing? Luis Show?
Day?
Yeah?
Maybe what we're talking about, what about infrastructure, we're saying to be based in terms of federal character more than things have come up here? Is the present too? Overly titter to legers? Should he spread investment across Nigeria what's your takes.
Yeah, thank you, Carlo.
I think for me, if the question actually our pin points of federal character, I think it's actually important to go to go in line with that. And however, I would like to digress a bit for me from my end, I think there's a deliberate sabotage on infrastructure generally in for instance, we seem to like allow our infrastructure to decay just so we can actually I mean allocate money to rebuild.
And I would give an example to back up that.
Have you recently used.
Our those speech to the in England which is has actually been built over one hundred years ago, And in this speitchure you come from the physical structure of your speitch you can't tell the buildings have been standing for fur hundred years.
You can't tell.
So and just to take us back to the send pictures from the marital more made. There's some parts are in the airport.
Which is actually which are actually dilapidated, which actually we're actually maintained. We wouldn't have needed there are more to actually spend the Semoni and Trent semonial and fiftillion on such a projects. And see the amount is actually the same amount that are over ten companies in in the n g X actually does if I love about overtime companies in the n g X and that is actually what we actually intend to spend on one airport and
which is actually so bad to me. Then lastly we actually governors are wasting money on necessary flyovers or soon State for example, when motion complete its ongoing flyovers also is actually going to have more flyovers than Manchester and nothing I'm combined, and this is actually not this is actually not to build a serious.
Economy, to be very honest.
So the maybe they're building for the future, you know, like when Legos had flyervers there was no trafficing Legos. Maybe they're saying in the future would.
Be the heallow, heallow, Just for the airport thing.
I once stood in my time amid airport and counted how many airlines that touch down there. I mean you can count them with your two fingers for twelve hour period. You know, you know I'm not making it up. You can't count it.
It's not even you begin to ask yourself what.
Metrics is somebody using, what level of business goes in there?
Just be building it for esthetics? How many airlines.
Do we even have in digitals that goes out forget about those who brought do bring the juriors and drop them there and go away, go their way exactly? You know, then there is that sometimes it's all laughable. It's very very laughable.
You go there.
I remember on the other one, one day I turned up by four four o'clock in the morning. I was actually waiting, I mean on the local one. I was actually waiting for the person who have the key to the airport to come and component up. And they told me that the airport closes by twelve o'clock and then you open it by four o'clock, and that the guy actually come back, came in with a very big bunch of kids that starts opening the gates.
You know.
The thing there is that we are innigeiers and we see this tough. You know, he needs to find it. We need to find a way to copy what people do outside. How do they're doing. The airport can be a very very good investment, but you need to also look at the local ones. You know, from from Lego to any state, this one flight, just one how do you increase internal traffic?
You know, how do you do that?
How do you link it all these things up?
You know, you have two flights that go to one flight or maybe two advertiss a week that goes to the mostay, that's it.
That's it.
This five and to add to add to that, I think they are just to be applied from Legos to London every day just to.
So I don't think we are the economy years for coming to spend that. I mean, that's a mount on the airport.
Yeah, we can't say let me say what I'm very.
Just playing say the goods that people in that astor are sent home could in fact, if you link all these days, you'll have a very good robots in come as turning Nigeria. You link all these notes together and then you just undercut l and all these projects and all of that, and then you have this indigenous only goods alone. You're not even talking about the room business. But you need to make it affordable based on our economy.
You know, you can just have two flights to London a day he through has I mean it's twenty four hour cycle. Every minute they're playing lines down there.
And then you know, so we need to look.
At these things say to ourselves, what how do we even sleep? How do we even justify this level of stuff? You know, can't you just go to therasive legos. They go to engineering the partment, find some engineers and say to them, this is.
What I want you to do that. How can we do it? Even if it is telling.
Them to London or sell them to China. Let them go there, get the knowledge, come back and do it at a direct level.
You can do this in several ways, you know.
But then they have to sit down and award a massive contract, call it seven my key contract, seven and twelve billions. It sounds so good, you know, and then that's it. You know, it goes into people's podcast and two years from now we're still back to where we are.
I think, I.
Agree. I mean, look at it this way. You know, if you if you take economic terms, it's what we call you know, what's it called now, chatter skill of preference. Like gentlemen spoke earlier about the port, we've got to really say, what gives us the biggest bank for ANIRA one plus one must be equals to eleven, That's the
way I see it. So if one deepsea port will give us one billion GDP growth, what will ten, low low costs inner port all because you can go from from the sea from Niger State, Allo to Niger to delta from Niger States all which to reverse state, what will the economic impact of that port be? And then we do that coligussion that we still we're going to invest in what we create more jobs, work activity in Nigeria.
That's how I see it than doing the big, big big Marque one seven hundred and twelve billions a lot of money. We're building this with the coastal road. Where are we getting the money from? Where we're going to get the money from. We have a lot of massive projects that I doubt would get the money to accomplish. That's what I think. Doctor. Let me get doctor in here. Doctor uh doctor Tonic. How are you doing man?
Yeah? Good money and it's been a while.
How are you doing money? Yes? Good morning, welcome. How is how is Australia?
We are here and I mean.
Projects, we are better than Nigerians living in Nigeria.
Okay, okay, I mean we're talking broadly about what's going you A lot of projects. It seems lopsided. We will look at federal characters. We just focused on the money to build a project. What's your take on this?
I think I I want to have a lot of questions.
I want to ask because I'm it seems as though Tim who doesn't have like they say, legos, they said he drew the I mean.
I think I said he drew the master plan. I think he lost the pen and paper he used in drawing because some for a start, I think it started off with the arch and then it went on to buy a jet, and then it bot escalate, and then yeah wanted the coast that road, and then they are doing a gypsy, and then they went from there to airport and every other thing that the people desperately need, you know, to boost.
Economy as all ignored, totally ignored.
I would I would start by saying, last, just last month, I was sent a bill estimated.
At eight hundred that my mom said to me, of course that was used.
This was the amount they used to generate power for my hotel one month, eight hundred and forty thousand, to buy.
Diesel for the bigger Gen guys for the smaller Gen and Penny Pabul eight hundred and forty.
Thousand, I mean, never bred is just about sixty three thousand out of it.
So how do industry survive if the least they need this power and they can't get it. I would I would have loved to think that power.
Would be the number one infrastructure or projects that a serious.
Government would want to fix.
That's what I would like to think at the number one.
Think ever, if you want to fix a country, you want that country, you want things to move.
I think power is number one.
Then you need reil, you need to build real you need to connect cities, you need to connect my okay, you need.
You need good rules.
I don't I don't understand.
I mean, if I think they said a drive about twelve million people, right, well, I don't think up to ten percent of Nigeria.
Will benefit from renovation of a wink.
In an airport in one year.
In one in that year.
I don't think up to ten percent of the twenty two hundred million ninderas will benefit from that.
I don't know the economic impact that renovating a wink in an airport will make to Nigerian economy.
I don't know about seven one hundred and twelve billion Nira.
That's a lot of money and that could fix a whole lot of things. So I think tirible. Probably he wants to work, and probably it's not being given the right advice.
Maybe he might have the good intention.
I don't know.
But the project that I'm seeing that I read on daily basis, they.
Don't sound.
They're like other appetites. It's like your house on fire and you are chosen ruts. Or do I say, your children at home because their peace hasn't been paid, so they're not in school, and instead of you to pay the cool fees or so they could go back to school, you are going to should I say, you are repainting your house?
So so look look at this.
What if?
What if the arguments that this is the stimulus project. You know, when you build things, you are creating jobs, you are boosting GDP. That sort of angle, it's your, it's your your criticism only on the cost of the focus. I mean, it's an airport to be built to enhance productivity, to enhance the economic output.
No report is not being built.
That is the point. The point I'm making it.
There's a difference between Okay, this airport is crowded, of our crowded we are we are getting too much crowd in this airport because.
It's literally only one.
So we want to build a new one in Ku or we want to build a new one.
In uh in their right to divert crowd so that if we have seven million use this airport in a year, it could be divided. We have just three million use this one and Formula use the other one. It's a different thing entirely when you said you are spending the story of eight God revated, it's not going through after a novational. You're not going to have news new staff or as mustaff.
You are just fun of it and you are not expanding. You are not rebuilt.
You are not I see, I see your point. Yes, I see a point. But still again that airport is it's an I saw it needs to be expanded and all that. So I mean, I I see your point on what you're making. And again you're going back to the camp of is it better to build new, smaller things that have more impact across the federation or to focus on that one big investment that is just in one state. Again, that's the the debate that we're having a space again. Go ahead from the.
I know I didn't do much, but the little I know is you can have small investments that would give you money, you know, and that you can now put it in a bigger investment. There's the reason why people buy teaper again two years less and are buying lasers. They didn't go and buy lasers first because they're gonna did your money now renting.
An effort you already have.
It's okay if you have everyday place you can effort. Well, there are demanding, seriously demanding a project, and the joy government should engage in, us should get involved in or get step up and doing so.
Get this country working, not renovation and aport. And I saw we agree. You go there.
You don't want to take a picture there because you don't like what you see, Fine, but we can.
We have been using it and we can still use it for the next one year. And just have power for a start.
Let's give ourselves power.
Let's have stable power. It's so, but I live in the country. I have stable power, and I can tell you how it has immensely helped my life. And I will tell you for free that if you have.
That prin for our lights, you can see. But companies will come.
You get more money from thousands whatever you want to if you want to thousand today. You can now do that and renovation airports in the next six months.
That's what I'm saying.
That's true. I come to agree with you. Yeah, thanks, I mean again it I agree with which we have to focus on what creates weld and then then use that wealth and building social services. Good points made, Dr Obi, doctor doctor Nikker, thank you so much. Like Dr Obi A Camel Hope, I got that right, doctor Obi. I mean I'm not sure when you joined. There's been an interesting discussion. We trying to just on that dimension the issues going. Yeah, okay, so really where where where do
you stand on this? On the project that we're spending? Are we tilted? Are we spending right?
Is it?
Are we spending on the wrong project? What's your take?
No, we are spending on the wrong projects.
And the way I look at it is, you know these governments, when all these politicians, when they're getting power, you know, people are saying us, why do government leave things that are very very crucial and be doing things spending money on things that are I mean good to do if everything else have been have been solid that right, but not like it is it is.
That important right now?
So you look at the Legos Back Expressway. It is great if we have that, but we have more present issues. They are trying to spend seven hundred and two billion on the airport, They're trying to spend whatever in the in Legos.
Part and all that.
Now, what I see here is, you know, when when when when the new government emerges, right, there are people who work for that government to image and as we're going into re election, also there are people who have to be taken care of, you know. I mean I've talked to people in government and I and what I've got out of it is that these are people's projects, right. You know, the way we have a pre president, there are people around him, people that help him to get
to power. People are going to help him to get re elected. They're going to need resources to do this or that. So they all have different projects that they are their pets project and this is where they are going to make their own money. So if there are seven of them, maybe maybe this person his projects, his project is this airport, and if they do this airport and spend PEN seven hundred and two billion, maybe he's
going to make three hundred billion. And that this person is important in the golf for the regime because he has some strings to pull, you know. So that's you know, that's why we see we do the Legos Calaber Expressway because we need to take care of somebody like this is somebody's project, and that's now that plays the person go chop. You understand, it is somebody's project. So and these are the people who will be pushing things in
front of the president. You know, lobbying love being lobbying, and who gets the most lobbying power gets their project approve. It doesn't matter if that project is what the country needs. But this is my project. Yes, yes, this is our government and this is my main project where I'm going to make it and their re election is coming. I'm going to be one of people. The mexture of the president is realested, is releested. So if I get this project, if I get this money, I'm going to ploy it back.
You know.
So that by the way, right, do we need to spend this money on this airport? Absolutely no, right, Calo. You know that all over the world, government do not manage in infrastructures aiding one right, we are supposed to lease out this this airport, you know, and we actually having Nigeria and dismissed that a goodness who is in the business of managing airport if it's managing airport in England and all over Europe, why can he manage the
Motala Ahmed Airport. And he is actually going to pay not the Nagila government paying seven hundred pen five hundred million dollars, what the thereabout touring ad Airport. Miss our goodness is probably going to pay like two hundred million dollars to Nagelian government to lease this airport for twenty five years, you know, you know, so that he will now put in his own money and not just doing of it nigeriandstand that, but upgrowth it to world class,
you know, and then we go. We moved to Cano, We do that in Canoe, we do that in a Nougo, we do that important haigh Court and the government and the government gets some of these airlines and give them license to fly flight to a Noogle, license to flight to what Hackle, so that not every every airline is flying to Lake Us. In that way, you kind of
disbust the traffic all over the country. You know, you can take some airlines, you know, it's gonna take some airlines and say, okay, we're gonna I'm gonna allow you to fly that to Cando only you know these airlines, we're going to fly to a noble and stuff like that. The same thing with our with the seaport. Right, I thought that a Bason job privatized.
That's important. That is what I thought that. I thought the sport was privatized. So I'm kind of surprised.
About also hearing that there is a social amount of money that's going to be spending. So I'm not really I'm not really understanding what's going on there. But what I'm saying in essence is that the governments need to privatize this whole thing. We've been shouting about this in on the refinery and they are spent it's either fifteen or twenty billion dollars to for our Finally since the day a Bason job privatizers is finally and listen to that and got and when he left, yeah I do.
I came in and canceled that contract.
From that time that, ye do, I cancel that contract until today, then Jinia has paned probably about fifteen billion dollars if not more, on trying to do tonment maintenance on all this refinance and as.
That today it is still not working.
Okay, so we are just sabotaging ourselves intentionally in this country. You know, there's this solar thing that was I was following that they are doing in Namimbia. It costs one hundred million dollars for one hundred mega works in Namimbia and it took one year to be completed.
Right, so this five from the million dollars about.
To throw away in this airport would have given you know, if you follow that model, it will give us five from the mega works of electricity from solar. Right if you, if you, if you double it, if you, if you, if you put if you would even do like hundred mega works or solar plants in the cisty your political zone, and and you get a season that mega wants to only focus on federal infrastructure in those in those those like the universities, the digital hospitals and all the federal stuff.
Then you would have powered you know, all those universities and all the federal university and also all those medical centers. You know, you know two four seven for forever. It has greater more impact than whatever you are doing in the airport. So the land I would say it's a waste of money. The government needs to hands off, lease out all the airport. We who use the airport will
enjoy it because it's going to becob world standard. It's not this thing that is smelling like you you are standing in line to to to get your passport checked and the toilet is you know, you are smelling bad toilets and they heat and they eat and all that. If they privatize it to a global company who knows how to run airport, you know, these airport which is the first thing that people see what's they're coming to Nigeria, it will become something that we can be pride of.
So a waste of money.
And I'm even.
Surprised why the Senate is not you know, I don't even know. Like that is why I don't even believe in all these new party, this coalition, because what had the Senate us doing in the National Assembly? Why are they not questioning all this one appropriated end each other that that that we're making.
Nobody is asking questions.
Yeah, doctor b doctor if you put just want to make sure highlights A few points you raised are very very important. Number One, you've talked about us using the private sector funds to grow these assets and not the federal government funds, which I think is very very key.
You just sort of glossed over that in the UK, all the airports Garthwick, he Through, Bristol, Luton, stands Field, all they are being expanded, and they are all being expanded with private sector money, with government backing, government guarantees, government approve us and all that not not distinct not the Government of the UK's money. So if we have an airport, that airport is viable, like Legos Airport is viable, why then are we're not using private sector funds to
do Legos Airport. If it is viable, it's then the unviable ones in quotes that we have talked about that should then get the federal support because the feder government does not really worry about the economic side of the business that are want more about the spread development. So if Legos is quote unquote has the highest numbers and it's profitable, then you shouldn't get the federal You should get a federal guarantee, but not the federal nran Kobo.
I think there is that point to measure that that point is it's understood clearly, Like like you said, where is the private sector in all this? We built the Legos roads with pension money, the Legos Lucky Road pension money, privacy of money and now it's there. So doctor, there's a measure. Go back to that point you raise because.
I think they don't want to privatise it.
It's also the reason why we have some redundant institutions in Ninja, like we have insolutions like JAM.
Some of our these institutions that that have supposed to be have ended. But there are people who are eating from me.
Right, So if you if you, if you privatize this airport, then this Federal Airport Authority as an organization, who will become obsolete?
Right?
So what about people who have you know who that is their cash cow? Like there are people who talk like that their cash car for the past fifty years, okay, something like something like JAM. I've been in a room where they're talking about, you know, we need to end jams so that you know, people can after they go to the university and write and write entrance examination and get port. Then the money that people are making in that organization, the people who are making that money.
It's still going to allow you to kill where they're eating from. So it's hard. It's our production at the end of the day.
Thank you, all right, all right, great point. Just want to make a great point. Just want to highlight that fact that we're avoiding the privacy to the first has a big, big role to play in this federal What would they build out of infrastructure? The federal government does not have the money to do this. And if you don't try to borrow the money, it can guarantee the money, it can facilitate and highlight and get that money too, Annagera. But if it's a government use his own budget, not
it's going to get done. We can do coastal Road airport, but that will road Socoto Road all from the federal project. It's not simply enough. Cyrus, How are you doing, Cyrus? You've heard all we're talking about. What's your texture?
Yeah?
Thank you very much.
Delive in everyone living in Calu.
And I really agree with what the last peaker.
I said about these all misplacement in terms of where we spend that spare money. Because most of the time will talk about these things, we usually forget that the money that they has been allocated by the federal government is from the back pockets of Nigeria's people when we or the other whether to divart you pay or to your pit.
Or your company from terms or whatnot. So and for me, I think the Minister of Aviation just to play the devils are looking for a moment.
It said that it was trying to.
Have an agreement with access back.
You know, we relate a big way that show some peace to a the kind of probably part partnership with them that they're venture up in the airport that they're meventually listened out to them for their service whatever.
I don't know, but that agreement did not work because we we we we died. Probably there was the reason why they decided to take it on themselves.
But in my own personal opinion, I still feel like it's a mispass polity.
In the light of where we are today. You mentioned something about where are we getting the money from? Like where is all this man? Where is it coming from?
And it's even properly used like is he is he our polity right now? Because somebody says something also about you know, this is not like you're building a new airport it's not like you're adding extra value. You're adding like extra productivity.
Is not like anything is going to change, probably going to introd some other told feel or whatever you know in the in the world or whatever.
But if there's nothing on the net, not is going to change in terms of productivity.
There's not a building a network of rule where it is connected to market, connected to a place of work, connected to in those tries.
It's just you's just innovating a.
Symbolic building so that I don't know for some reasons and think they calls outweigh the benefits.
That's what I'm saying in essence now to speak to.
The issue itself about fellow cat and infrastructure spending. Now government, government is not there's more unlimited resources.
That's the first of them to agree on.
Because sometimes I want to talk about infrastructure and building stuff and these and that is assumed that government can only go money on trees and this, which is not the case.
And every region, every every place in Nigeria has its own, you know.
Unique market or it's needed, it's unique economy and it's unique. It will dispose your people do there. And so if a structure should be targeted like that.
It's not like I remember there was an argument about it as the definanci's not definite, and that those are the kinds of issues when we when we make policies that's based on not just common sense, but it's based on political business, and we.
Start spending more than I supposed to spend money.
And if you ask me, some of this pool ject that does state based, region based, it should be taken upon by the government, and it's supposed to be by the state government supposed to be in my opinion, that the economic activities ought to compress any firs structure because.
If there's no if there's no economic activity that is.
Driving the mobilization for the infrastructure they're just building by this guy. We've seen all of this thing app scattered across the country where the government builds all kinds of things and nothing is happening. So it's not I'm not of the believer and I'm not of the story that when you're building fast ructionhow and you will start participating.
In the economy.
There has to be some level of economy and then the co movement coming.
And support we certain firstruction to develop and to consulate that economic activity Cyrus.
Sarah, let's let's take on that's let's dive into that topic. So I hear you saying that if this is common, saying, if you build it, they will come. You are saying there has to be some economic activity first of all, before you build it. Let me play, there was advocated Sarah Sarrus, let me let me build, let me play.
That was advocate. What was the economic activity in Legos before the government, before the government build the ports, the airports before nineteen sixty in nineteen nineteen twenty.
Has always been Legos has always been because of its proximity to the cause.
Not really, you know it was you know, it was Caliber Cyrus. The it was Calibar and Niger States. Sorry, not like zung Girru. It was Zungeru. There was Caliber. Legos didn't even have a port. The legal to them have a proper.
Been to some estate to some estates have also been a kind of legion of international commerce.
Not really. I just said that there was no part. If you if you're the history of Nigeria, right, there wasn't there was. They actually have a contract in London. There's a book of it where there was no part in Legos. Legos had this currents and it was like a big conference, how can we build a port in this place? Currents are wiping away the harbor Calabal was a very very safe port. But they wanted to come
to Legos because the Colonel Office was in Legals. Remember that the UAC was a private company and when the UK government took over UAC, they had to then build a port in Legos because the Colonel Office, not the Foreign Office, took over, so they have to build the port. So the point that the point making that yeah, but if if okay, let's look at let's go, let's go to do there was nothing happened in Dubai when they built.
When the Dubai started, they build the airport, they build the port, they passed the laws and then commerce came in Dubai.
Okay, okay, let me let me tell you legals, then I go to Dubai. Right.
They mentioned that the companies they see the value in the need for the port. What I'm saying is that there are situations in Najeraa have seen like and I can't stay that people building people government building started infrastructure that is not based on the economic cisy it's based on political reasons, and it's based on what we're describing this particular conversation as further character.
Not because there is a need for you. That's one part of it. So it's no model the conversation.
Now the issue of Dubai or place it will say Norway right or other costs like that. What is their fiscal condition and what the fiscal conditions of Nigeria in a certainly for example, when I was swimming in the oil boom revenue that go over five hundred percent, we can't wait. We can be lazy enough to do yourself in all kind of mega put make economic size. Do bad have the money to do that? And they did all of those things, and yes it's po economic good.
But you can see into weather. If they were not in that position, would.
That be an economically sensible thing to do?
Cyrus, I can I can trust single powerts you that had no money and build the infirst.
Just start building the.
I know what going to Okay, last one again, guys, understand, I'm just saying that was advocates certain last one, Syrus, this and not this is not this is our project already existing. We have a port in a door. We have a port in Worry. We have a port that already existing. The same way we are expanding the ports in Legos and the airports in Legos. We also have airports in a door in Worry that we can also expands. So they're not they're not a federal character quote unquote,
they're not green projects. There are brown field we have to go in and expand them. So instead of driving on the way to Legos, you can send in your big ship to a door to Worry, or you can fly do and Worry or protact colts out of the country. So it's already existing that in market clusters. It door has a market cluster. There a lot tons of das, but tons of activity in a door. Worry has a market cluster already. So the airport then logo for an instance,
that was built by the state's already there. The Federrama can go there and say, Okay, we're going to make this airport and airport, make it cargo. It's already there. It's existing in a number, so there's already a market. I think the point is that you should they now be federal characters to say, if you're going to spend we can spend one for one. Lego is a larger market, so legals will get the bulk of the federal spend.
But should they also be spend across Nigeria to ensure that development happens across the countries we're all talking about.
The bottom line.
Cal This is my last point is that your location in terms of infrastructure.
Should be perceived like what exactly are you trying to be there?
Right?
Even let's take about the state for example, right, many states.
Are building airport.
Nobody's coming, no, no single flight.
Is no, right, they're doing that. So it should be that for me, like I said earlier, this.
Innovation it's it's you know, for me, it doesn't make any sense because because of the money and everything in a net, it does not give you anything in return. So infrastructure should be based on what exactly is the market cluster of that particular region.
You can understood, so understand good back up, Victim book, you picked a job writing picked us? Have you in victor Victim? Yeah, I can hear you go ahead.
Right, thank you very much.
Living house.
So I've been following the conversation and.
I think I want to pick up from where Cyrus dropped of What Cyrus is actually saying is that Singapore like.
Actually, you have to be.
Valuable before you have to do like before you look at the infrastructure, and I think, like Singapore, you made mention of they are.
Actually net exporters, and I didn't think the US.
Yet net exporting, but there weren't. They went in to net exports are when they started. You see the point when they started, they were inter net export. That's the point I'm trying to make with Singapore. Singapore is an island with rats and stone. That's what That's what the PM said. Then they then build the ports, world class ports, world class ports, and then passed the laws.
And people came, okay, let's let's look at America. Before Henry Foster left building cars, there was infrastructure, but infrastructure full of techniqelogies and referred after abuse Carr, you.
Know, oh we need rules for these cars.
That's when.
Now, okay, let's build roads and refers the building cars before road skin and I think that's that's where we should be, not building roads before the cars. And actually, if we have to build cars, or if you have to actually build infrastructure, it has to follow what we can do like.
Our next expert lie each day.
I believe there's something they can export, there's something they can process. Singapore probably they don't have much imports. The imports raw materials, refine them and re export them. That's education at work. And that's actually the way I wanted to point at actually for us to become valuable and our infrastructure.
Really bringing what we want. I think the educational sect needs to be fift up.
We need to we need to do much more with like education in Anglia, I don't think. I don't think education and Anglia is up to what be if we invest more and your points earlier, earlier on I.
Was listening to you.
You say that we at least.
Send people out of the country and they should study and come back to Nigeria.
I'm not sure that works.
In my secondary school many years ago, he sends some of the best teachers out of the country universe and just tellone and till today, I can remember one person's name that never returned and I think.
It happened again dream where eastern on they never returned.
So but somehow so I think we can be for like make our educational system better of have like everythink I look at China, how.
Do how do you learn?
They don't just learn to become workers or I think they learned to build America also they actually they actually learning to create something.
They're learning to build.
So for us to build better infrastructure that will become profitable for the Nigeria society or Nigeria as a whole.
I think we have to start having that mindset.
Okay, if we have important worry, what's that?
What?
What is that thing we can produce? Or what will be what will be the.
Main economic driver in worry? Or what can people in worry do if you want to export something like titles? I mean we're important titles, so I don't know now, but we're important fishing. If we have fishing worry and I'm just saying, I really have fishing warring.
If we have fishing worry.
And we can process it and send it to other African countries, then we can say, oh, we needly put them. But actually, right now, I think someone say that the airport is not.
There, doesn't ever wrong to be for ours. I think we are putting the is it the cart before the horse before?
But again Victor, this is I think when we can't eat. You can have it right, This is how I look at this commision. We can eat. You can have it if you ever can go to I don't want to send put to their office. And then over there's a UAC building in Legos, UC on a Doula street. If you ever have the chance to go into the USC building, you will see the picture of Legos in nineteen fifty nineteen sixty when they were building the fly of Us. There was no car in Legos back then? How many
popo had kind Legos? Go look at you see where they were building it. You see very few cars. They build those overhead bridges because they anticipated and in the next twenty five years Nigeria would be a massive economy, lots of cars, so they needed those cars to be built. You get what the putumt making. You build in anticipation, anticipation of what's going to happen. Number one. That's number two. Number two. We already have the port in a do we already have the port in worry. We already have
the port in on air. We already have the port in caliber. They already exist. Those ports that have been working today if they were drafted. The reason why they're not working is because the ships they need to be dredged so bigger ships can go there. We're not debating the Lego sport, the Lego sport, the route the airport in my view, because we want to build an economy that's going to take us number one in Africa, they have got to be fike. Should the money come from where?
That's a different topic, right, but federal character would say that if you have a one billion, Legos can get five hundred billion. The other states can get their many five but about four or five states I've called here. But if we take seven hundred the whole money to one airport, all were doings were concentrating those activities in
one zone, which will become over crowded. Again. If you fix the airport, what's the road from the airport is still the same usher the express road from the airport Now it's not the same oshand expressway. It's going to be the same issue that will end up in Ecualdu Expressway, as is there going to be a new road. There is the same road. But if you fixed a dough or worry or caliber, at least you are sending some traffic out, which is why even in Legos alone, we
had tin Can a Papa and the other port. We have three in Legos because one got over crowded. Then we build three ins to solve the overcrowded in Legos. So to keep on and we're building a new one in Pedagary. We're building on not new one. We're renovating a new one in Legos. If we keep on renovating and we'll get a world class in Legos, then the whole of our current thing just keeps on happening. But I refer to yourself, Go ahead, I.
Get your point, But my point is start.
Regardless of the number of ports we are building the playbook. I think the playbook we are using right now or government.
Is in now is expired as no more in bod that was some years ago.
That building infrastructures, I think that was when the predict that Okay, in the next few years nine years, population work grow and we need.
To buy cars, they need to buy this of let's building ports and absolutely to work.
Now I don't think that works.
I think right now, what's every every mission should be striving to have a pie in the globally co or mixed like people. So we we are actually we should actually be looking at.
Okay, work can be process and have this stamp or need like like have this stampany globally or even in Africa.
I mean, even you've made that point, let me ask, just final closing, do you think that we should use federal character for infrastructure projects in Nigeria?
I don't think we're right in shorts even that investments you should you should go to somewhere else not if we want to use for airports, I think it should go elsewhere.
Not really closer.
And even if it can even go to power, I mean, our power is very low at the world, we generated very it can go to power and it would actually help a lot of if power is fixed a lot and all other affectors would actually.
Kick up, you know, would it makes sense? Just just general questions. Imagine if if imagine if Latino says we're going to fix the power in Legos because Legos has got more industries in Nigeria, so we're going to not fix power anywhere else, but will fix power in Legos so that Legos folks can get powered. Imagine how that
would sound. That would be absurd. People will say, people say, what do you want are you talking about even if I don't have industry in any group or just I need power, you know what, you know, people need to be absorbed. So why is that airport sound different to us than say power? But gu's the point. I don't know if you've spoken, No, have you spoken? I know you have spoken? No no have you spoken?
No? No?
No?
No?
Oh please go ahead, yeah, go ahead now yeah.
Yeah.
So since I've been here people a lot of people have said it doesn't point out to say it, but I just want to say this. We need as a country, we need partners. Realizes this this idea that you should do everything ourselves. I can see that going around.
We can't as mentors not have the power to do everything itself.
And the government can over run any they.
Can run an industry.
So we're talking about the airport, talking about the industries that supposedly.
That our governments are running out there. It's it's not something that they got. Any government can do. So I believe so much in a privatization. I believe so much in allies. So that's why I was reading.
About this in a social deal and I feel the idea so from what I read is they want to improve thee for if you look at the places they want to improve, we say it's from the southwest and Legos, right, I don't think Legos is up to international standard yet. So if for me, if they want to improve it to attract more partners from from the from the international body, it's it's a good thing if they if they can improve it.
But even saying that that the government can improve something, to me, it's something that I do not agree with.
I don't believe in the government running things.
I believe the governments should go want things right. Why an party that has stake there's an interest, the private body, private person should be able to run small dies.
So I don't the idea that we have.
Also also the idea that we have to distribute the the resources to other states.
I make sure they go to it. It sounds good, but it's not work.
But it's the law.
It's the law. I hate that law. It's the worst law in Nigeria's history. But it's in the law books. And I think that sometimes people when it favors them. People like that law. Why doesn't it favor them? They sort of ignore it. I don't like federal character, but it's the law. It's and there's a word in fa character that says proportional. It's in the father character proportional. So in what we're trying to say, which is stupid in my views to say, if you're building legos, you
must building south. It doesn't make any sense in my view, but it's the law. You can't. But again you can't. The president can't have a fund. And then the president a loan will determine where he would and where he would give contracts to. So he will give contract to Ekecher Airport, he'll give contract to the catch a Port, he'll give conduct to but diagree. But other states don't have. That's why we have a national same and a budget. That's the reason why even matter how flawed that processes,
at least everyone will say would have a say. And the way it's going, it's almost like we have one emperor that can look, this is money from the budget. This money is not money they're making from donations. This is still money from subsidiy removal. This is money that you and I are paying as taxes. So this is the point that I sort of I don't agree with.
All right, the the idea of like an emperor the again the right.
I don't think people criticize him.
The winning came for me.
Is that indeed, it's almost like it's almost like an emperor.
But all winning the laws, all winning the laws, all within the laws. This this, this renewed Hope Infrastructure Fund, it's not being pasted by National Assembly. It's not being past National Assembly. You cannot spend money Section eighty of the Constitution. You cannot spend money without appropriation. So on the constitutional level, on the last level, if you can't do it, this is this is ignoring the fact that
should we do federal character or not? The federal character The very basis of that fund is wrong.
I understand what I say. I understand the federal character. There understand it.
But we we we have to still know that we are in.
A very.
We need allies to be to do understand so we have to understand that we need them to be.
No Yeste's time, we need them to be today. There's no country that can there's no country that can.
Go in the same of fund. Every of the country you have, even America. Most of the as I said, most of.
The companies that actually boose the economy are not run by Native Americans. These are private people from different parts of the world.
That is what we need in Nigeria.
That's one another.
Thing I want to say is there's a lot of.
A party from the Nigeria's towards the government like this thing that this stuff that the government is doing. Now I've not heard anybody say anything good about it.
Yes, it might it.
Might not be.
It might not be.
It might not it might not be good.
I don't know.
But there is an outcome that you are trying to drive which might solve a particular issue. So I want us to be looking at this from that aspect that we can't solve all deprovements one day.
If if, if, if.
An actually by the government is solving in particular problems, this should be they should be appreciated and praised, because the wait to actually change people is.
To show appreciation, to show that, Okay, we understand what you're doing, we're seeing what you're doing.
And even if even if it doesn't solve all our problems, it's solving a particular problem. So if we can make legosity, if what they're doing can make legosty, it's still that's a trusting The development will move from there.
All right, And I understand your points here. Basically, let's get let's just have one world class city. Let's have that one. At least we can say we have one world class city and that we can build from there. That's the point you're making. Understood.
I hear you.
Let's get some sam some what's your take on all the same. We're talking about infrastructure and somebody, what are buying infrastructure, we're bringing in federal character, we're seeing it, even talking about the presence part to allocate funds to build this in a structure. You've had this guy talk about the lest let's build one world class state even if we have it. What youll take somebody?
Yeah, thanks Carl. I've listened to everyone in this kind of debate. It will be it will be very difficult to to be talking about everything when you according to when you have problems like elephants, you cannot so much elephants in the eighties or six thing years. But take it. Take a drunk and let's deal with that trunk. So I was talking about power, I were talking about alleviation. I believe the difficult has been aviation. Then let's not narra down to the aviation.
The the well, it's not it's everything. It's not a vision. I listed out the project when I started depart the railways. Everything a vision. I just want to sort of trigger out the space.
But yeah, it's everything, okay, okay, yeah for the real where I'm not too sure. I thought that the river states sorry bar has commenced, but I do that was a debate on that was the in Was it a narrow gauge, It's a standard gauge.
That was.
I don't think it matters. I mean, like you said, it's nothing commenced. What the President has done is that he wants to borrow twenty one billion. He listed projects that the moneys will go for the railways in the Easter among the projects. But no new work has started there the work. There's no railway work going on.
I know.
The I think the Kanno to Maradi in Niger really still going on because the loan was taken doing Bohari's administration. I think that's what's going on. Val thing going on here.
Okay, yeah, so I'll just focus on the advasion and that was the one I saw yesterday, and this money. Some traits for the Minister of as viature. I think it's a loadable improvement to the It would be a loudable improvement to that facility in Legos. But my problem is is it really addressing the issue of that facility of that airport as a user. I just left there yesterday.
As a user, one of my biggest.
Problems in that facility is the commute from the domestic wing to the international wing. Either you are ladin at GADS or your larder at true you are to stick at the public transport again, live, enter the city and go to the international steremina. That is not encouraged. There's supposed to be this here, so it's not addressing that issue. Secondly, as a user, I should be able to and I think if I dress this a little bit, I can be able to step out, move a little to arrive
at seminar and get my transportation. But it can be much easier that you can drive in and drop off take your back. So there are some basic things that I mean, there are some functionals are for funtionality that is missing. Both this.
This new the model that I saw, I dressed some of the.
Fostionality, but it has not addressed the commute between the domestic wink and international wik so as a project, those are some of the things that I look after because all the all, they are all most of the everces on the mode that they showed those is all. It's called about beauty, body, called esthetic needs. That's most of the things. But to these basic fostionalities, how do you reduce the stress of each of the users? How do you give efficient service? So the user it's going to
be addressed in that project. So that is what I wanted to really, I thought we were going to we are focusing on otherwise. The g is a big, big problem, no matter, and it's a big problem. I mean it's a big problem in terms of needs. One of the things I told my friends the coastal roads between Legos and Calaba. I told my friend it is not possible, point blank, it's not possible. The DA cannot build a road on the Niger. That that's one it's not possible. I put them the co co ports is in Coco Port.
It's not by this, it's not by the Atlantic Show. It's inside sup Report is inside, will Report is inside. What what kind of bridge are you going to build? That big cargo ship can pass under the bridge and go and back in those ports I made, I made dredges, I made the plan. Are you going to use in the Niger data? Don't form the road? It's not possible. So that's why the last time I heard the minister, we are going to dabbatin on those things. That's a bad la.
Fingers were not serious.
It's impossible projects.
The dominding guys to get you your take on this question. So do you think in your view, do you think we should use federal character for infrastructure in Nigeria? Do you think it's we should, absolutely we should.
The must be spread a round of infrastructure or the question is what is the spread?
Okay? Would second question if the if the project is not economically valiable, do you still think that the federal government should still invest because of federal.
Character because there are a lot of competing Okay.
So so I hear you.
So what you're saying that it is not the point of beauty for the future.
Okay, how do you how how do we determine quote unquote economic activity? If I go to the state of Biosa, that's one of the poorest state in Nigeria, ignore the oil one of the poorest biosa. How do I determine economic activity to allow me to establish a protein biosa? If this date no econom activity, do I walk away?
No?
Okay, I'll give you example. Bias Niger cats. I think iron there one of this Korean company. They have a massive shipbuilding facility there. Those are some things we can tie into. How do we make it more better? How they we make those facilities more economically useful? How do we create a journeys infrastructure today? And the roads the badges? There are a lot of things that can be done in Niger data and there's a lot of gas flanders to keep places there.
How do we move those gas into inland?
There are a lot of things you can still do in in a bias state.
Or the bigger and the bigger scaler.
Like that.
There's no wrong answer. I just want to get your take just for us to follow wars, because I mean, the space is just basically asking a few questions. Number one is questioning the president's power to allocate tax revenues with our appropriation. Number two is questioning if we should do project without federal characters. You know, the two central points at the Swiss's addressing. I appreciate all those other questions we're raising, but it's added two central things that
we're raising, and I think it's very very important. I also like the way you praise. I can on a side that if I go to legos more local and I want to go to international, I have to go on board the boss to take me out into the that's that's wrong and a should be a quick win that we can do and fix. And I just raised the productivity there. But I hear you body so good point uh, ben Ben, You've been hopping in and out. I finally got you in here, ben Ben, go for
it same, thanks so much. Yeah, go ahead, I can, I can't. Yes, please go ahead?
Ye okay.
Either the network is so, then I want you to do it where to build projects. A fair character touches three basic areas.
The quoter system for jobs, for federal goverment jobs and minister appointments.
And in fair characters. For minister appointments, you have to when you when your appoint you.
Ministers, at least every state has to have at least one minister in the appointment pools. And then when you're giving jobs at the fair level. And then when it comes to political zoning, you know this fair character there to So those are the areas that fair character according to the constitution touches. It does not release me anything about where to build infrastructural projects.
You have to build the structure projects here.
That is left to the fairer governments and those that are in charge of strategy in terms of, okay, what do we need to do to grow as a country.
Where should we build these projects?
And the truth is if you look at fairment projects, like if you.
Look at the coastal Road and look at some other the railways.
These are projects that will befits various states.
The co Star Road is going to be defits all the coastal states.
Then do you mind asking you a question? Just that way we can we can get to my point. I asked you a question about you. You said a comment, wasn't it Timine? Why is there refinery and Karuna states?
Now that the Carduna is a properate problem of port design.
You know when they when they buse.
Carna at that time they I don't know what they were thinking in terms of how do we supply kludor at an efficient level?
So that by the time Goudor gets so do.
You finally we start talking about crackspread and start talking about oh what is our opex? It's not talking about profit margins. We can nactually make profits. They did not have efficient supply.
So by the time the.
Seas and they wanted to start actually using this refine, and they found out that it's not even profitable for your finance.
But they knew, they knew, they knew from the staff that they were going to use in Ben, see what I'm going to Ben. I'm not trying to debate the refinery. They knew that it was going to use imported oil. They knew it to not be profitable, but it was built.
And it's har about imported. It's about transportation. No, No, it's used transportation.
There's a pipeline from Scraposa for only crude oil. There's a pipeline only.
Crude oil, and it was there at that time.
It was built for re final It's no, no, no, Ben. Get the point you said that we that we don't do for that character for industries, and I'm saying we do. There's a there's a still refine. There's a steel mill in Cartsina, what's it doing there?
The pipeline that runs from Esco card Yes lake is not active.
No no, but it's the pipeline. Forget the active. Nigeria built a pipeline from the s Cravles to Kaduna for crude oil. That's the point I'm making that we do look at federal character when we are building projects in Nigeria. That's the point I'm trying to make when we are building things. That's why I don't like that. I don't. I don't like that.
Yes, but it's it's it does before.
It hasn't changed, my brother, that's why. So it hasn't changed. When we do things in Nigeria, we always do a federal character. Hence the space is asking should we because we do it, we can't take We should not say it's like I said, it's not right or wrong answer, but we can't ignore that we don't do it.
We do it.
That's why we have steel mills in most regens we have. Remember when we build the still mills, there are no regions. There was no Southeast, nor has got a steel meal. South has got a steel meal. Southwest has a steel meal. Even South South even though there's no has a still me, but it's not still mean. It's all the southeast. Southeast has his own has his own issue in Nigeria.
And close to the iron or the position.
So why do you have so? Why do you have steel mills all across Nigeria sometimes with no iron ore?
I think we need to be smarter and stop doing things that way.
Okay, definitely, all right, why do you have so? I can give you more examples on this.
You have the gas recently recently you won't find any.
Look at well said so, but where I'm going to with this is that you know, that's the question that should we do this way? And if we agree that we should not do it this way, let's come now to present day. We have the president today taking billions from a fund that is not appropriated to do project across Nigeria, specifically with an overweight in legos. Do you say any problem with this?
Okay? Do you need OPENFRA structure development?
Phone?
Correct?
The context, the context that everybody needs to understand about that phone right now is done.
A large percentage of the money that goes into that phone is not from the government.
It's from private pension funds.
Child not note that came from the government was.
Not no pause the pause there, pause there. The fund is targeting investments from the private pension funds from It's like a normal phone, but does moneys haven't come in yet. It's a fund created to target.
That has called me right now was appropriated.
Where's the money from?
Where's the money that has called me right and was appropriatedly approved?
What you're telling okay, let me ask you. So what you're telling me is that National Assembly appropriated seven and twelve billion to go to the to the right to the renewed Hope Fund in excess of the Ministry of Aviation and Ministry of Transport. Is that what you're saying.
I'm not explicitly saying that. What I am saying is that if there was any if there's any Ferra God.
Made money in the renewed for Hoop Infrastructure Fund from the far agment from the frauderation, it must have been appropriated.
It's most now I'm telling you it's not. You said it was, and I'm telling you it's not. I don't give you a good example. The budget for the for the for the Legos Airport alone is more than the total not even more than times to the total bullet of transportation and aviation. If you combine them and multiply them by two, it's not up to what were are locating for the Legos Airport alone. I'm not talking about road zo or railways or port. This is just the Legos Airport allegations.
There's no other aspects in the budget.
I've just told you where the MOE is coming from, Sir. The money is when they removed subsidy. Go back, guy, guys, you can do this. Go back to the first fact statement. When we remove subsidy. You will see that the President says we're going to take money from this renewed from the increase in revenues, and it's going to go to the infrastructure fund. Is this fund they have now called the Renewed Hope Fund. The money is from the removal
of subsidies like a PTF. But when they did this PF, this is not approved by NAS and the President alone is won and child this PTF. That's where I'm giving you the data. There is no there's no allocation from NAS for this. It's money has come a subsidy. Money is federation money, not federal, not state, not local, Federation money.
So in essense, you've taken federation money, given it to the president, and the president is taking their money and are locating, as he deems, even taking that money to give to a state, because we're now using that money to also do legal state light rail. Get your point about the private sector phones, but they haven't come in yet. The prejudor's accident is able to borrow him twenty one billion. Okay, I'm actually give me give me your own answer. Give
give me where the money is coming from. Since money is wrong, give me where your where you think it's coming from. Give me yours. Have we borrowed the money? If you go to d m O you see burrowed money from. Where else is the money coming from?
Tell me.
What I heard is that insurance companies, pension funes.
We already do that den sound when and when the government.
Is giving that phone from it has been appropriated in the budgets.
Sometimes that budget is confusing. I know the budgets in the budget that may be outside that ivia that idition.
They're talking about some aspects in the budget that maybe outside the appropriated it on that something side that I remember, I saw almost almost six billion in that day in that budget that was.
Allocated to one road.
That is they not finally explained to me someone that explained to me that that money that located there is actually part of the money that they raised for.
Phase one of the.
Of the what they call the Legals to Calabar road, they're actually appropriated and the roads legos to put that called. They didn't write Legals to Calabadi in the in the projects. So I think in that budget there's some appropriations that they made that are not explicitly riatting. So you need to actually sort of come to it and ask questions before you not actually knew that this is actually what they did.
I think I find it how to believe calor.
I find you how to build that the Federation of the Federal governments, who gives you you needed first travel the dogment.
From a location without oversights from the without appropriation you understand.
From then you are making my point. That's what we're having this space today. Let me again summarize for you again what I'm saying. I've told you where to go and get the information from. Go to the first fac statements when we removed subsidy present both going too power he removed subsidy. Immediately look at the next subsidy statement immediately after subsidy remove. You will see there fifty percent of the revenues the excess. The excess, not the normal fuck.
The excess fund was taken from the removal of subsidies funds and paying into an infrastructure fund. It's there in the fact statement that it is that instal phone. That is the renewed hope in phone. Please go ahead check that's what I'm king number one, number two. When we borrow money from pension phones, those are the federal government bonds that we're already issued. It's not this fund. That's the federal government bonds and TVs that the pension funds
can invest in. Pension ponds just can't take money and put in in any fund. Doesn't work that way. You have to have a securitized pag hold hold on Ben ben hold hold Ben please ben hold On Ben hold On. You have to have if you want to invest as a pension phone, you have to have a securitized paper that is rated then you invest. Is there any real renewed hope infrastructure fund paper that you see on the market. All the pension phones that invest they invest on bonds
that are listed. It has to be securitized, listed rated. Is then any renewed hope your phone bond out?
There is none?
So okay, let's free to invest as they choose.
They cannot invest as they choose, mister Ben. If they want to invest in a bond, the bond has got to be rated. It's got to be issued.
I want to invest in the bond. If they won't. You just said if.
If means Ben listen to me again, Ben, listen to me again. The Nigerian pension phone has gonna investment guideline. If the pension fund administrator seeks to invest in the federal government bond, that federalment bond has got to be issued issued. If it's a private sector bond has got to be issued rated, then there are limits to with the pension funds five percent, one hundred percent, they will
put limits on it. You know there is there is there any renewed hope bond you know of in the market today?
Why are you making about what de pensions depension for most investing equities?
Are there any new funds equities you know about today?
Sorry?
It is there renewed renewed infrastrual fund equity that you know about today.
The point I'm trying to make here is and just make them just make this point, and then just make this point.
The pension fund has the prerogative to look at various asset classes and choose which asset class they want to invest in it.
It doesn't have to be borne and I did not restrict I did not restrict anything to any asset class. Federal government. They can invest a one hundred percent in federal government bonds. In equities. There are four pension funds that invest Each fund has its own asset allocation. Federal goverment has one hundred percent allocation. You can invest one hundred percent if you want in federgment bonds. Thing is maximum twenty fight like you keep interrupting, You keep interrupting,
and the federal the equities is more. I think it's twenty five percent. The point I'm making to you, sir, is that there is no renewed hoop equity fund or bond funds today in the market. There is none, so they could not have been issued and invested by any pension fun company. I've already told where the money is coming from. I've told you exactly where it's coming from is the real It is the revenues that came from
the removal of your suftiday. That's this money. The fund exists, but we have not just stay issuing and borrowing into the fund. That's what the president is asking for twenty one billion. That's where the one is going to come from that will replenish the fund. We haven't started that yet. Just to me declared the books. Listening you say, Carlo, Carlo is what I'm saying. Okay, look from Okay, let's
that's fine, Let's move. How are you doing? Please hop in Elma, mister mister, thanks you I can please go ahead?
Thanks very much.
I appreciate.
Your audio is very very bad. Your audio is very bad. I'm not sure what's wrong with it? Can you can you think that?
Well?
I get somebody else in here your audience still let me get I Can I help you in real quick? I can I help you real quick?
Can I can?
I still want.
Lulu? Lulu?
How are you doing? Lulu? Thanks for helping Lulu? Are you are you interested in kind of topics? I thought you were a bitcoin man.
I'm gonna be going mind.
But at the same time, I'm still interested in.
Just pulling a lego. Gotcha, how are you doing?
So?
What's up? What I mean, look at what we're talking about. Two things here actually, Number one, if we should do it, infrastructure acquinted for that character number one. Number two again talking if the president has the right to do this in this spend that that we're talking about, we think it is lopsided to leg us what you're taking all this?
Okay, well I'll first start that with the with the premise that.
You can't convince someone that is committed to misunderstand the you in this country, we're saying where presidents spent moneys without appropriation.
I'm talking about the last government. It's not new. It has been happening.
Okay, someone printed money out of thin spent it, and later at the end of the Attennee, they came to legalize the illegality.
You're right, you're right.
Yeah, it's not the first time it's happening. So I'm wondering why Ben is being at the man. That's if it's a new thing, it happens.
That's abusing the cbing ads still goes through appropriation.
They are just abused the arts.
They will abuse the Act and still use it to finance the budget and all that. So don't let's be technolog like like I said, Google like spend understand you know.
Well anyways, then let me get to the main topics real quick.
So what I want to bring in some historical.
Perspectives to this okay, preceivable war and I want to focus specifically on the port. Pre civil war, we had about five functional ports Legospapa, portter Cord, Worry.
Calabar and Burutu.
These Eastern ports were used for exporting mostly raw materials, palm oil and cool out of Nigeria, especially from the East and the Middle Belt. Now, during the civil war, what happened in nineteen sixty seven when the Afredic lared independence, the federal government blocked all eastern ports including portal called Kalaba and all the others that I just needed and the Eastern region lost access to its port. All what time, important exports for the federation.
Were directly bill shipped from Legos and nearby port.
After the war, what happened the federal government prioritized rebuilding, just legal legal sports and expanding a perparent thinker to handle the new.
You know, new Nigeria.
As it were a post war.
And the Eastern point ports received little or no investments until their facilities became outdated, and after this Legos was c vented. As as the all contested train help well, you might say that successive governments feared that over investing in Eastern ports could give the region too much autonomy or power as it were, and keeping major trade routes are dependent on Legos the way, you know, they tried to centralize the whole thing around Legos.
So in my own point of view.
You cannot talk about federal character and the sharing from like distribute today without going through the historical path badfields, and this is what has shipped investments in you know, all that regions.
And unfortunately centralizing.
The government and economy, economies and infrastructure, you know, mixed for you know, an inefficient governance structure and group. And that's why people like me and others have been calling for the.
Centralized next Yeria.
Okay, okay, no, look, look I want to stay on focus.
Man.
I hear you bounce. Still on focus. We're talking infrastructure.
Fact.
I hear what you're saying in the historic club is fine. Still on that Marroy Lane. If you start talking about that one. I don't know that's still on Marrow Lane very narrowly. Bona stay there.
Yeah.
So for infrastructure, the principle still remains. You know when you when you spend across board infrastructure, you know, you say centralize the economy, things work more efficiently.
That's it's just a principle.
Just like semiconductors and the semiconductors you see that chips microchips are getting smaller. Why because there there there dream computation in parallel, you understand.
So before you have a locre, you have you have triple or you understand.
So you know, you know, making.
Computing parallel makes things more efficient. So if we decentralize, you know, spending across board, you know, you you you put infrastructure in all these zoons, you prioritize, you don't just concentrate on one zone of course, you see, you know, better growth across board in general.
You know.
And for me in Loness, the idea as far as I hate federal characters as as a person actually in the law character whatever, but you know, the principle of the centralization is feel something that we should imbibe in our governance system. The centralized power, the centralized spending. You know, and you know you have being more efficient economy in my own perspective.
Understood, Yeah, totally understand.
Let me let me.
I'm going to share this just because of the conversation I had with it with the other guests. Then. So if you look at the date is July. If you look at the July, the federal government establishes Infrastructure Support Fund forty six states as far revenue rises, that's the date July. If you can look at the July twenty twenty three, President Tubu has approved the creation of an Infrastructure Support Fund for the stety sic States of the Federation.
And this was when FAK was increased to one point nine trillion. One point nine trillion. The new and I'm quoting the new infrastructure fund will enable the states to intervene and invest in critical areas of transportation, agriculture, healthcare, education, blah blah, blah blah. I'm gonna share it on my on my Twitter feed just so you guys get the point is, this is the genesis of that we got one point nine trillion when we removed fuel subsidy in
July twenty twenty three. This is the seed funding for this renewed hope. Now I'm not saying this is the renewed hope. It is this is the main funding for that renewed hope. They've been taking moneys out of park and sort of ring fencing it, and that's those ringfast funds is what has now been used for these investments. Because you can notice these investments in this font are even more than the budgetary allocation. So I'm gonna share to my Twitter feed again this is not the renewed
Hoop fund. This is the point I'm making it that you are ring fencing. They are removing funds from fark ring fencing it to then spend on projects. And I'm going to feed let's get what's its trip.
Wait to share it to but you know that.
Share truly, if.
The Federation Committee decides that we should save up some money and put into this fund and use it for something that there's nothing wrong with that by law, Like.
I said, and I quote again the federal government on their own, there is no law that passed this infrastructure fund, the federal government. Let's let me speak, if if I if I could speak without being interrupted, if I could speak, if I some money to be clear if I could speak without being interrupted. The federal government decided on their own to create an infrastructure fund from the revenues that went to fuck. This is what I was trying to say.
The federal government created an infrastructure fund from the revenues that we're going to fuck. And I'm going to shad on the Twitter feed right now. I've just posted it, so you can go ahead and read it there July twenty twenty three. Truly logo, How are you doing, sir, Tree Logo, You've got the floor. Please go ahead, Truly can look.
And I quickly speak on this thing you just said.
I've just shared it. Why don't you read it and then you can come back and read what I said.
So you made a statement, Maybe just comment on the statements. You made a statement.
You said the federal gold Means started an infrastructure fund, and they decided to take money from the Federal.
Location the Federation and Location Committee. Now the question is going to.
Ask in the Federition and Location Committee that money that they took is it from their share or is it from the share of the states the entire fedition, which is the state goverment and local goment. If it's from the federal goverment share of the fact money, then it is deferrable means money that they took and put on the fond.
If it's defederation share, it means that the Federation.
Meets the states.
And you look how God means in conjunction with the Ferra goldmin all agreed to take out a separate an amount.
And put in the Renewed Hope Infrastructural Fund. There is nothing wrong with that by law.
Thank you coordination.
Again again, while we're talking about this, i will making a point at the Renewed Hope Fund scantting. This money is from fuel subsidiar removal, and I'm saying this is the genesis of that Renewed Hope Fund. Again, I'm not saying we need Hope Fund is infrastructure fund. I'm saying this money you are seeing is coming from the removal of fuel subsidy. And if you read what I posted, you would see there on behalf of the testy six states.
Fuck is federation not federal. The federal government on their own said they are saving money in an infrastructure fund, about seven hundred and one billions. What is saved from one point ninety two points and put there. It's I shed it up literally is from Dieimetric. Really there and they saved it and it's there, they said for thirty six states, the committee has resolved and quoting to save
a portion of the monthly distributed proceeds. So here again, the committee has resolved to cy why do you why do you keep on? Why do you keep on interrupting? Why do you keep going on?
You know, you know, you know, you know.
If I remove you, it looks like federation.
It's not just federal government. It is the state, the local and the federal level. That is what you're artically saying, and that is what I'm also saying. So your at corregorates my points.
Thank you truly. Go ahead, go ahead, I can hear it.
Okay, hello everyone on the space.
I'd like to greet everyone according to their time zones, but please pervct me to just use the colloquial grating of heaven and welcome to this space.
You did a great job, Calum.
I really commend you for hosting this space. But most truly, it's not just about hosting the space. It's about your composure as well as your ability to moderate this space effectively. We've had some quite disruptive characters and persons who do not want to listen but feel the speaking on the top of their voice would make sure that their points
are heard. Whereas they aren't contributing to knowledge neither adding presenting alternative facts from credible sources that each person on this call or this space can reference to as well as improve their knowledge. Or rather, they are being conjective and interjective. It baffles me that this is a very common paracter with some Nigerians.
This is a space for intellectuals.
I'm not going to reply you don't stop.
Ben, I'll take you off.
Ben.
If I take you off the space, you.
Should stop talking about me. Why is it talking about many topic of this space?
All right, let's continue, So just go on with your comment.
Please just go on.
And before you go on, guys, I don't want to go this back and forth. And the reason why I'm stressing this is because this goes central to the point of the host space. I've now shared a portion of the federal government's own quote. Look at it, what they're saying and I quote. The Federal government therefore decided to save a portion of it, which it hopes will constitute funds for the if of the tests six days of the federation. Again, I'm going to share it on Twitter.
You can argue back and forth all like, remember what again a few minutes ago that this did not exist? Again, I was monic from pension fund. Now I've shown proof. Now again it's not federation, it's federal. It's right here. I'm going to shad but please go just stray to your own point. Loogle, let's us go to your point.
That's go on, Yeah, go ahead, thank you, thank you so much.
So I'd like to create the indulgence of everyone the educative and informative space.
Please, if you have the privilege to.
Speak, educate and inform us, let us make reference to sources and let us speak from the sources.
So we can also learn and we could also come back.
To ask you questions if we find something that is a bit off and contribute to whatever point you have made. Let's not be on the on the money or the person's knowledge and research when we have nothing to offer.
So let's value the privilege we have to speak so others can benefit from us.
Regarding this talk about infrastruct infrastructure spending and federal character. It's quite funny here because I know it grew up in a time where my great grandma were part of the people who benefited from the ports down in Worry. This set of women were known as the Hebrew Women. I don't know if you know about the story about the Hebrew women.
Calu it help us out, please, Okay.
These are the women that first went into the whole sale of fish, ice, fish, importation of different kinds of fish through the Ibrew family because it was a big shipping business that they had before they eventually branched off into the banking industry.
And then we had the ports at the east, which was.
Solely into importation, Coco exportation and all blacks when it comes to infrastructure. When it comes to infrastructure, the government makes the policies and creates the framework true and then private individuals or polls of resources from foreign companies come together to implement the policies of the government.
What do I mean.
Take a very good example of the three airports we have along with the Tri State air I'm sure, Carlu you're very family of the Tri State air We talk about New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. In the nineteen seventies. Do you remember the story of how these airports were not functioning and how they were almost run to the ground, including the popular JFK that we know today as well as the new one in New Jersey even open to recently.
But the government had policies in place, but they did not have the money to execute.
What happened.
They created an open room for private investment funds to come into these efports to improve the infrastructure, and these are one of the busiest eirports that we have in the Tristate area as well as take a look at the ports of Virginia as well as the port of Los Angeles.
Why am I.
Making this point?
As a country, we have come a long way and we have decided that for equity that federal character is one of the ways to go. A federal character has its flaws. However, these flaws are magnified by selfish interests of people in the corridors of power, and we see it to play out every single day and every single time. Is federial character in itself bad?
No do?
In my personal opinion, I feel it has outlived its purpose. Well, something is still critically lacking, which is what got mental policies in place for private sector players to come in,
invest and build these infrastructures. If Legos has three ports, as we all know, and not just the pots, we're not just talking about the ports now, we're talking about other infrastructures that supports the ports, the road networking as well as train for serious countries, because there's hardly any ports that doesn't have a train nearby for moving setting types of products or goods and services across the length and breadth of the country, because some of these products
are not supposed to go on road due to the nature of this product. Legers over time in the last during the Warrior administration.
But truly, look at I'm gonna culture if I just don't get to get a few points from you if you don't mind, right, So are you saying, are you for federal character for shae of infrastructure?
Are you for that?
As it is?
We have it in our constitution and unless it is expunged, we just have to make do of it.
I'm not for it personally. I believe it has outlived its.
Purpose, and when it comes to infrastructure, infrastructure situation and development, I feel it has outlived its purpose.
But for the meter fact that we still have it, we could make better use of it.
Okay, exactly, got you understood. So second point, do you think there's a there's a bias in where investments being cited? Do you think it's even handed? Do you believe that even if there's a bias, is that bias is because legos is the commercial capital. Hence we have to invest in the commercial capital to create revenues to then invest in the non commercial states. What I mean is this, people are saying, we're investing legal sports. Okay, well, legal
sport is the commercial port. So if we invest in legals, we get the revenues and those of us then go to the quote unquote non commercial points. Is that a good argument?
That is a very poor argument, low imates lo.
It might hold this ground on some points, but that is a very poor argument, and its short sighted argument is a blind argument.
So earlier, while I was listening, I heard someone say.
That Ford made cars before the other roads, and I sat down here, I was laughing at myself. Americans had paved roads, some were tired, some were on tired, but these roads were paved and smooth. Those cars ran on these on tired roads before the advent of power and tire.
These roads and infrastructures were there.
Now because of this road and infrastructures, development and technology came to meet it and it's kept expanding for casting and projecting.
For the future.
Why did Legos become the commercial hub that we have it today or we are all referring to it as a commercial hub? You yourself Calu has stated clearly as well as the last speaker I'm trying to recall his name, Lulu. Due to the civil war or concentration by government, policies and by design were centered in Legos. Now, the question I put to you is this in the last thirty years to do what can we say or can we hold and say? This is a development of the commercialization of the key ports in Legos.
I mean, can you can you can make money? Let me let me, let me make the argument.
For legal parts.
Why is the ports not generating money?
And where are those private investment funds that are supposed to be driving legal sports while we look at developing other parts with federation.
Okay, let me make Let me make the agrement for Legos. Legos ont let me make that argument for Legos. If you don't mind. Lego States got the ports because they have the market. They were able to attract investors for the deep sea port. You know what the deep sea port is the big ships go to the sea or flow. Then it's moved to Legos ports. So you can have a deep sea port where lead no market. So Legos did because they were able to attract the market in Nigeria.
To Legos, they were able to attract the investors. But deep Syport was built by private investors. They didn't go and build that private investment in acquired bomb that has a natural deep sea harbor. They building in Legos. So it's sort of like al why because the marketing legal it's.
Not just about market, it's about policies.
Okay, if we're talking about market plum right now, why is it port situated in Virginia?
America? Is America does the spread?
Right?
There's New York on that part when Atlantic coast, there's also lost Los Angelists. They have inland ports. They don't do federal character right, they do mostly private but but but the railways were built by the government in the un that is they give the land to the private gas and said if you build a railway it's your land.
So so that is that way.
So that's my tech question to you. Yeah, So what you're saying is that if I understand what you're saying, you are saying that you want the legos in quote the commercial stities, the legos of the rivers, the Abuja to more or less focus on getting the private capital, and you wanted the Federation for to then go to the states that are not yet buoyant commercially. Is that a summary of what you're saying.
Now, what makes a location buoyant commercially? Policies, intentional developmental policies, and why would you have a natural deep sea port access to the south to decongest a port in acquirebomb and in worry And there are no governmental policies to develop ports that can handle that could breath large cargoes.
Okay, you don't want to breath large large cargoes? Are those ports? How about shadow cargos?
The policies are not there and the government is not interested in formulating those policies to enable these other ports function.
So it's not about the it's not about the funds.
If the policies there and the government is strategic the funds will come.
Understood, All right, understood, that's fine. I just want to get that, just to get us on that, on that mindset. That's fine. Regenerative, I know you've been reading. Do you happen to comment? Regenerative, I've been.
I haven't lost Calo, and I think I.
Go go for it, go for I haven't seeing the hand up and the top guy you are spoken, go ahead.
So yeah, yeah, I just make a contribution.
But I think right now I want to go on through disclosure. So let me first.
Ataday is a woman from Australia that made some useless for my language.
Please yeah, sorry.
Sorry for using that, but I'm paid as an Enginian youth. G lit song caming up even my hands was I've once living in the Natia and you guys can believe fat checking everything I'm going to say to you know, is it two or is it two?
Under than eighteen million populations