Investing Open House

Hey, good evening, folks. Welcome to another money space with me calu aja. Of course, on this space, we're talking money, the economy and finance, personal finance that is, and we're trying to make it personal to you. Some in a bit of a transit situation, so I said, hey, let's just start early. We're gonna do about two hours. If we are started by seven, you'd have been for an hours, So let's just get in quickly. This basically, like I said,

L great to be on your shoe. Interesting conversations.

Actually, it was just just to add two spices already put in.

I think it's also been.

An except exciting and eventful week in your market. You know, the much talked about you know kick this week, we had some around it and just breaking your is that the charpaitizing director. So the worses that about to billon dollars will be raised, that's the plan.

Also we look at the banks. We saw that the banks were really picking.

Up from uh July.

Lows, particularity first UB and other systemic panks.

But you know the gt SK the.

Act that was supposed to be that was called the act, but the banks was in the act.

Was the doing issue. I think he pattered.

So much posts in the on social media, but the stock presently has he yet to date.

Again of more than thirteen percent.

It's the best performing bank stock.

Uh. The result AMANDU stowing down after running so fast it would looked like it was going to put the dinner.

He had to come back down as well as petty le plus before eating apples.

To define so they started room right.

Now with you was bigger.

We're seeing the fact that also dinners to have settled betweenty one thousand and five fifty and what so Yeah, just to put the serving. I think what the market has seen this week is that the physical ancessity also explained a key role of the market inficially reported didn't to go to world with manufacturing and consumers tables, just by the fact that in moortuation you rest still believe that it's still pretty much high for these bottom nine companies to make it different.

So that's some you know see it?

Well, no, no, that's let's let's do let's do that GT Bank issue quickly. So there was like an issue with their online banking. I saw online people said it was it was a was a hack, and I think I saw a telecom paper come out and say, what's in a hack? That they didn't pay on time? The letter I saw a guy still not only paid on time, it's not our hat, but they paid on time. So I mean, for me as an infestor broad strokes, does

So look at the price.

Actually what the market is saying, not from our perspective, what the market was saying. The markets pretty much didn't take it too much and out for many reasons.

If you look at what happened when the way for that came into play.

The market aggressively felt that that was going to eat the bank spot of land you know, some word for that, you know, you know how e FX is played a major role knowing for the world that the Nigerian economy is not giving the banks.

Their core march is busy.

I'm talking of lends, lending, you know, so the wind for that's had his stronger effect. But if you look at the case of the art acrevention, first people say the.

Users answers to their albs. It's created definitely created.

Suppose around the fact that the bank can't take hold of their domain. And yeah, concerts, but now customers that was bridged according to the bank.

And I think I used the bank.

And if you look at the stock, like you mentioned, I was looking at the forty five mark and it is a very interesting stock.

For those that don't really understand the stock.

This is the most valuable bank in the country, has the market a couple.

Of one point five trillions there.

He also has systemic players. This stock is exposed in.

The London Stock Exchange vi GTR, so we have investments that are not the shaky guys like depending on.

We doing the stuff. So it was very normal for us not to see.

A reaction social media from who at the normal At the normal.

Mark like the United States, you're going to see a reaction.

The difference between that just decided that you have stock market is that we have over.

One fifteen million Americas actively or passively exposed with the stock market.

Makes it very efficient in Nigeria.

Last yes, yes, data said that we have all a thousand active accounts that two party level this year maybe double so Calu, we see the difference that we have with strong bias.

So yeah, the market should have reacted maybe if it was.

I think the big point is that.

This is not something that would telling.

About gotcha only bit overall like another querson, I get this overall the windfall tax that is going to be applied to nigerm banks, is that going to be I mean net systematic negative to the Nigerian banking off us? I mean we have Is that going to be an issue that there's going to be a one time tax and get just to explain, this is a tax or realized profits, so the bank does not realize those effects gainst they don't pay any tracks. Is that going to be a problem overall.

Galuative big problem in fact the issue.

Honestly, that's why when the news came out first, because just for this stastic I'm exposed to all the distant banks nager I try them not just for investment purposes, but because I write lives, so I tried to understand the top. So when the news came out, we didn't two weeks my banking stock portfolio was down by more than fifteen percent. And if you look at ub at first Pack at that time, they were going to sure at some point you be a dropped blue That tells you how I.

How the new scheme had on bank vestors.

For me, I don't see why that come to like do some banks came to bed If you look at first Bank, some put first Bank.

Posting FX cluses for a while.

So he don't it don't seem to be exposed to that being for that and that was why pretty that was why pa I said that that I was in support because he understands the banks balance and when they are closures. But for a bank like you is an ergity definitely to be a concern you when.

You look at as the results it was definitely a concern.

So it's really hit they put on banks, and that's why at some.

Point the bark in the text was the worst performing this year.

So at disappoint like you said, I perform fidating that really surprise.

The market started their producer long before many banks. They were actually the first. So the fact that they raised their phones beyond back expectation that was implosed. But when you hate a.

Bank like assets bank accent take for extension.

Using the sqs of unrest, you know that there's more to.

That mystic high So I think definitely it has an impact on recaptiation plan the future ending.

So despite the fact that we have some of the.

RODS supports, you know, the optics around capping banks in the era CRRs for five percent where the industry is everywhere, did know something restors to clear?

Yeah. So I mean the point again is then again again, if I'm raising, if I'm raising money, or if I want to invest in the bank, I look at two questions and I ask myself the money the bank is raising, is it going to go into existing structure? I will my money allowed the bank to raise more earnings or will my money create the base for the bank to

Because it's not into law.

Ye, there's twos some stoppers around Thebut and listen to a large parallel on the group of FSB and I've seen specially of different reports. They're saying that you actually start next year, that the Senates and the fact that that next year.

Use the format that it seems to be unfair you don't really look use like you said, definitely have an effect.

You look at senate objective. Senate objective is an expansion. They're talking about expanding a branding barrier in France because of the facle phone countries like CAMEROONA to goal, so they're looking at markets other spaceially look at GITT also, this is also looking at expansion through the IT infrastructure. They're looking at also bringing new businesses to their bottom line.

But for me to be honest with you, because our own g T for many years now and GIT already goes beyond there. So usually what I do is that when I c GT between the.

Price is traded and at the prices I resually itself have wait followers. So in ndender as displaying them, it hasn't happened back to come to benest with you. But if you look at their two banks a f c MP, we look at bidity, you look at telling. These banks often time have been able to generate more al fast than the one banks and that's.

Because there's so much from to grow and you know they're really experienced from many.

So look at for example, they're expanding getting cauto credits from bests expanding to medium skill businesses and field entrepreneurs trying to put in export business to that line tho, just to.

Create in which that space. You also look at starting look at the first tructure around the it.

These banks we can really pick, but I think what the dur is like at some point with the government looks like harming on.

The parking industry.

It feels that they wanted to merge.

It seems like you look at what is happening.

The Providos are unity government deal right, but remember a long time of this rumor that Providence was going to feel or going to feel and the we are let them feel like. It's like, what's happening now that receiving is preventing the backstop. So if I'm an investor, I know that the siping is providing equity into those banks so I can buy. It's not that that's what's happening to those banks to give it the capital to your won't feel before you go too far. I just want

Okay, this my.

I'm just going to talk about bones because it's.

On the topic.

Is like just the white like you're sharing my tots on it. I think any investor here listening would be before you shoe would would might might want to get more fixed income into but too, equities are good, but that's like a long term play. Why because well, the fundamentals that should support.

Equity companies listen on the market still are around as as.

As solid as I would like to see and even though their companies are driving just some maple headings.

What what what fix it come?

Do you like?

Now we have the dollar fixed income, we have the narrow fixic com which won't you like?

Especially I like food, actually I like good.

I like dollar, but because well the narror is easier to get into MP the dollar, I think it's thanky to minimum.

So that's mostly for and you know people.

Yeah, so just to qualify to put for listen. In Nigeria wants to issue a dollar denominated bond, first time in the Nigera's history. We have Euro bonds, but those are dollar dominated outside Nigeria. This is going to be a dollar issue debt in Nigeria, meaning if you have dollar in Nigeria, you can take your dollar to the bank and buy a dollar bond and you get dollar dividends. So in effect, dollar rise in quote the niger investment space. But please go ahead.

Yeah, so I like the US bond for obvious reasons because if I had tank, if I was I mean as age and I lying around or just like say, I'm saving it in my dum account, it makes sense for.

Me to.

From my point of you, to put it in the dollar bment. You know at least two generalium income.

That's the attraction, right, that's the attraction.

Yeah, but also concerned that I do have.

So I don't want anyone here thinking that I'm.

Just saying the novice and they're seteen concerns. Number one perception and trust.

I think in this five hundred dollars is wing like you.

Need to settle the engineents to key into it. Besides yeah, agianized and corporations locally, and because that's someone in the US, for example, if she looks at the US treasuries and looks at US bonds, you bones should be higher.

So it's almost like the same thing. But just as a favor or any more attractives.

I mean, make make it, make its plain. If you invest in in the US bond today you get three to four percent, but it's guaranteed and the US would not default to the US do not cancel their bond. I think the fear I've heard for before asking me questions calo with Nigeria, pay calu with. They say you're going to bring up everybody is scared that the government will come to tomorrow and bring one new law and

What I kept about because it was like, if you look at the lower yeah I have I have exposure and governments bonds and pretty much because.

I got them. A feather a leg says now I was going to two thousand and two. I think the series bond was giving it to twenty pizen. My objective tam was just to read min applications.

Back home, So I think you see the question for me is like the go for example, looking at their palance sheet and looking at yeah it has it's a good concept, good but like you said, it's very it's easy for the government to pay back to there, but in dollars.

That's another bobbing for me.

So if I'm going to be exposed to I'm going to be very very conscious to do.

You know, I look at what my hero account is giving me.

First, I'm getting.

Two pointed seven per year. I'm looking at water Backleazy is giving me. I'm getting about three percent. So it looks like it felty because it decaid it's going to be packed around the ero board yield. And when you look at what he take, that's around.

Like nine percent.

But the question is, just like you said, the compiles, the rule of law, the application, the the.

Environmental Let's let's dive deeper into this, right, if Nigeria bruise a dollar, how do they pay a dollar? It's going to be from oil sales. It's going to be from because now it's not remutans. They don't own remitan, So it's going to be oil sales and exports. It's not going to be an NPC Okay. So so essentially saying that if we if you buy a bond, they

Right, what talk is that big boys now or usually a dollar's particularly in the investment markets.

So if you look at nows to, look at Sparmig, look.

At because I've been able to do my sorgy.

If you look at the good of stam gig asset management, the dollar dollar exposure.

Did so much different.

They increased to the rates you get, for example, with investing dollar moneyment and silk cocer moneymer you get about a game. But in gy in most old for a minimum of what.

It is and you get goes through. So we have banks are already putting that into prey. And that is why I'm a bit.

Bits were like, okay, banks are already eating into the pie, already invest where banks are already posishing themselves. We did really get that two billion in the long.

Term, I don't think so.

But just like you said, it's a good.

Idea, we cando tell how G that that's where I react to because definitely we have long swarm of capital among these people, particularly in western country, so if they really huge interest, the difference to be both. The problem we have in THEGIA, like we don't have in many in financial capitals, is that are emb don't do their jobs rather than play that around. You know, if we had publicized this larger prospect prospect to this year, trust me, they think that could have been awesome.

So that's another problem. How many likes as as a way.

That we have So but would you I mean we had we had a protest match last week, I don't think anything government would have actually sold bonds when people on the streets saying that they want the government to quote unquote live or be changed or too. So it's bad timing to to sell that bond or to do a road show. Even the road show was very very muted. I know I published the pole are telling me show me proof. You should didn't believe that this what's happening,

People and you know about Joseph that you know this back we could not be some applications.

That's what we asked for, but that was securitized, so they see the point. That's why I said securitized debts. Most of those loans that we got under a base job. What happened that Niger borrowed four billion dollars. They refuse to pay, so the interest was capitalized back to the principal. So the principal, the principal rose to thirty nine billion, right, that's what happened. Yeah, all right, look let's let's get the ox day Tech Oxy Tech. What's up bad Ox There you've got the floor.

Yes, I'm here.

How are you doing today?

Where doing well? Go ahead, sir, what's happened?

Okay? Yes, not more so. I just wanted to talk about briefly. They went for times right.

Just like you said.

I read it piece the paper that was written by think.

You know, what I'm trying to rationalis what the government is doing.

And the concept of it looks like it's double taxing.

Yes, I understand the philosop.

People behind what become mental doing or trying to do that.

They're trying to balance, you know, in deficits in the one side with the stop plats that have won the bankses and they were the deficit in the manufacturing in terms.

Of losses people. No, not the clearing coffee you know, for almost.

Since the three of basically losses for the close office classes and elsewhere.

So I I actually did the analysis.

Of the T one bands.

I looked up at.

Their financial statements for the DIA three.

I noticed that I think it was most of them just like you said, I hope most.

Of the bands didn't realize that cofee. So if you look at their for that comprehensive income, you.

Would see that.

They were They were very imprudent and the way they important, I think it was only to see that, you know, that's you know, like they.

Realize the chunk of what they have with their fects for.

As ban you'll be sending.

But they were all very prudent in some.

Sort of the way the important.

Yes, he's sitting on their on their other.

Other convens comports.

Most of people's not real So I am and I doubt what the government how the government to go about it.

But KPT actually rose against that.

And uh and that's that.

Then coming to.

Commune to the.

Putting my sorry not putting my fixing.

Scurity that the Furthereral government is pushing out, well, I would say that for me, first, we should all be very prudent and calculated in doing some of those.

I already know that in Nigeria.

In Nigeria, some asset.

Management companies already have these Gola phones.

They have it in their portfolio. There's some asset monament compute.

They will stand the.

Asset management if you go to so if you go to some of the products they have, the whole they have these dollar points running. It's already it's already, so it is the government trying to flow their own.

Boy, if you're good to quest at the MVM.

Quarest some of this asset migement companies.

Called coronation they all have.

They already have these dollar points running and people are already fighting too.

Well.

The raised I think the most have they they could have, I mean.

The best apps and I think eighty six percent between sixty eight percent.

So it's just I don't know how the government where they want to taste line the grade for whatever dollar dollar was it called bonds or treasuries that don't want to close.

But we all need to be care for for me, I see it.

I see everybody is a requiverment that I see the reply.

That's a bubble because for the very end, for the para government disapoints today. If health great investor call for their counts today, the government will deport.

So if you say that the government who have.

Not reported that the soubeign they already raised that the government interest rate that the government is still on those bonds and treasures is quite high.

So if people in half of the people that are holding those papers for the.

But how how would you call for a paper in the bond. You can't call for people in the bond that you can't go to the bank and some my money back. You can't do that in the bond.

It's I'm talking about Okay, for example, what I'm talking about treasure.

Views, which are the ninety days you want, you want into one days.

And they take six two days.

So if after for example, I'm giving I'm looking at the high pertest, now after the world.

Ranting one days and half of the people that are holding the.

Treasures disciple for your money interest?

Yeah, but what what you keep you? You you just reputed again. You can't call for your money in the bond. Now that's why you're repeating that. You can't.

You know I'm talking I'm talking of I'm talking talking off.

How would you call it back?

Long?

Yeah? How would you live back?

So, so what I mean is when you run out, when the one eighty days runs out, why the governments go on. Look you look at my analysis, the governments all plays have a drop because.

When the one eighty days runs out, people roll roll over.

Nineteen eighteen to thirty five percent.

Of the people who holding this rolls over and get their upfront.

Interesting pick.

So what I'm saying is that after the one eighteen days or three sixteen days and fifteen percent of the people that I holdingly saying I don't want to do it.

Give me my money back, they will prince, They'll they will print naira and give them my brother. There's no that's why it stays. Issue are free. For the Narra bonds, no problem. The issue is the dollar pond.

So I'm bringing that to the dollar now.

So if they will print money and dig there, and what does.

That do to the economy and edgulation.

Yeah, so that's so, So don't term just that we are listening. So when you do solvereign bonds, treasuries have no re issuer risk. So Zimbabwe bonds have the same risk as US bonds. It's issuar risk.

Right.

So for Nigeria and naira, don't bonds and treasury bills. Yes, they will print narror and give you, So no problem there. The wahala is like we said, when very begins a dollar bond, because we can't bring back dollar. So for Nayra bonds you are fine. The rates are almost twenty at last time I saw twenty percent. It won't beat inflation, but it's for income only. If you're buying a bond in Nigeria like a Treasury bill or for FGM bond,

Yes, for what my final what will be that? What my question which is I will put it as a question, and also my own talks.

Which is one interest face. We'll see, we'll see. Olympica said that, Olimita said they want.

To because more than what's compatable with the United States, which is the country that you are looting the currency.

I mean, I don't think.

It's going to be I don't think so anything about that.

Sorry, I don't know it's going to be above the US rates. They cannot pay you what the US busy. There's no point they're going to pay you one of the US pas. The US pays you for five percent, Niger will pay you from eight percent because eurobonds today are eight and eurobondes have a higher security, so they're going to pay you from it. I believe that's what I would remember.

That's what the relator said, actually said that it was going to correct.

It reflects to so and it.

Just like you said, Calu, there must be a premium, because why are you going to tell when people have the.

Option to hoo US debt?

Why are you going to I was seeing that they would that you're at dept.

At the same with Definitely you have the tax benefics you have totally I'm not and you dropped me and bring me up with thank you.

Yeah, so the tax benefic Calum, if you look at the tax benef just like you said, one of one of the advantages addris about fire government investments, which is a lot of investment houses.

There is that when you invest in different forms charges and things.

But uh, the the fair government security is net and the safety gives you. Really like we mentioned is the fact that this is a currency that Nigeria has no judicial and we notice that of the economy.

But in the long run, I think it's an interesting concept.

Where I'm really going to be concerned is that do you know.

The capitis They did a range very systemic investment bank has good tentacles around different African countries with up But where I am more concern is with Nigerians. We did tap into this with the fact that banks are raising money. There's so much investment around your corner down Qui ferrariy go to list by quarter one next year, Calu. To be honest, you know, it's really going to be very, very tough to get to be in my get I wonder an initial target, but I don't think the two.

I think it's a console the council there.

Yeah, I hear you, I hear you. I mean it goes back to this issue of we are going to borrow in the foreign courtesy we can opering, so we have to be very clear. I think the target should be the diaspora and the dorm account holders. That's really targets three four percent if you keep your money in the US DOM account zero percent. If you do this bond you get some interest rated I think, yeah, yeah, I hear you, I mean thanks. I think the main thing there's going to be the targeting the DASPRA, like

But yeah, those guys are invested in.

Gonna gonna gonna gonna know gets on, I'm gonna get oil. I agree, amazing, You're right. I mean Ghana was Ghana was They went too fast, too fast, that's they tried to copy. They hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up. They were trying to be like Nigeria. I think Ghanna refused to learn from Nigeria. Nigeria had the

He said something about printing money.

And giving to investors when they call to take their money out.

I need clarification on that, please.

I said that the it is called issue risk free because if it all fails, if all things fail, the government can monetize its debts with me, they can simply print and cover that debt. That's what I tried to say. The point I was making was that with the NEYRA issues, it's less it's less risky to niger balancee than the dollar issue that we cannot print dollars. That's the point I was making.

Okay, we'll making that statements.

I don't know because.

Is that good or bad.

It's a factual, it's a factual statement. It's a factual statement. I'm not just a factuous The US does the exact same thing. Monetizing the debt means that you are printing the FED is buying the treasury monetizing the debt. So that's what I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm not saying that's what happens. It's a factual statement. That was why we were arguing with true.

Yeah, that's what we argue with you that we think.

That American for example, that they have that they can export because they're dig for the currency reserve currency.

Almost every country the world was so loo cot that there's not value advantage advantage. Yeah, the US dollar.

For example, he's not the strongest parents in the world, the most widely currents in the world.

You see the advantage.

And if you know US has the strongest army, you guys are the strongest economy.

US has military business in more.

Than something in my countries just don't come to so they have we have the advantage for them to use the currency.

Think the fact that I maintain so much money.

Officially still three percent. If you have has the definicit, a better has about so advantages. Trust me, now that come to his son come back through.

Yeah, I mean, let me give you a story that there's a guy you guys to study John Law. There's a guy called John Law. He was a gambler, British gambler. He was for his debt, he ran to France, or he did in France, he convinced the king. The king was five years old, so he convinced the king's regents, the guy that ran the economy of France, and say, hey, issue a currency. It's like issue a a an NFT

Yeah, I just want them to make a contribution.

You just made a very base statements right now, and you know where you make statements like this, I still wonder why you know, you still dispute the fact that bitcoin will not catch up later in future.

You know people will not adopt it because you know, you you you just alluded to the fact that you know, money has not been the way it has it is right now. If I had the.

Concept of years is actually new concept. So people don't think of money outside you know, a paper that is issued by the government. You know, before now people had their own currencies.

For at one point, seed was one of the students, was one of them shells.

You know, before we started using precious metals and right now we're using code. Because bitcoin is actually cold, you know, so money people should not look at money as only what government issues.

You know, money can be anything, really, you know, So.

The idea of.

Bitcoin, you know, it's something that a lot of people.

Who see valuing later although it has its own challenges.

But you know it can be money, you know, as it is of the government bond, the dollar bond.

I will tell you for the fact that it is very risky to you know, to buy.

In nigeriaan dollar bond, as hal countries that sovereigns that you should dollar bond you know succeeded.

Yeah, some have succeeded. You're raising the money then paid.

Back, while a lot of them failed.

Some of them failed without countries like Venezuela, Lebanon, Argentina and most recently in Russia which failed as a result of it sanctions. So Nigeria, does Nigeria have the capacity to pay back his debt?

Maybe, but I highly doubt you.

Know so, I think it's one of the most risky things that you.

Can do right now, buying the Nigerian dollar bond. Some of that's my own two cents on this.

Yeah, well said, I mean you can remember that risk is returned. Let me put this way, that return that you make is the risk. Right, So if there was no risk, like the like the Bible said, just berry your dollar the ground and then get zero percent. So if you want to make alpha or volatility is the what creates that return. So if you just want your dollars safe and secure, put in the ground. If you want safe and secure, buy US government bonds and end

But that's not correct saying that bitcoin does not have an intrinsic but it's it's small of you know, placing a tangible things saying bitcoin must have you know, us physical use it is now as I speak to you right that people who are seeing the value of you know, storing their moneys. You know you're using bit coin as a store of value, you know, against inflation.

But that's not true even if you look at the numbers to say whenever there's crisis, when when whenever there's whenever there's crisis, gold goes up, Bitcoin goes down. Bitcoin is not a store of value ever, I've putted it many times. Look at it. Just whenever there's.

It goes down the store of value because if I wasn't saving you.

You can't the same way when.

When the government went on in printing charade in Nigeria, I would have been out.

I would have been wiped out.

Understand the bag of a bag of rice, a bag of rice is store of value Nigeria. A bag of rice is a store of value Nigia. A bag of cement to store valu nager, I can name it a bag of a paint can to stop valantager and the amenities that a store, but not investments. So you can't see because it's it retains its value, then you should go do that. The point I'm making, and I'm standing is that bitcoin in itself has value because the next person wants to buy from me at the higher price.

Entirely correct, because okay, see for instance, do you know that during the protest a lot of people's accounts were frozen, you know, because they tried to protest, They try to god their government accountable.

How does bitcoin solve that?

With bitcoin? Whom you more? If I send money to to to someone.

You know, tell me how you send it to me? Tell me how you said it to me? Should walk me? Walk me through? Walk me through? How do you send it to me? How do you send to me? Bit going to you? If you have the wallet? It's just how how do I get a wallet? How did I get a wallet?

You can't get you to just.

Won let throe? How how how did I get it.

From?

Where?

So?

So I go to the I go to the infants and donload and wallets. Right is trying to make you.

You could create, you know you could create.

But that wallet that was whose name? Who name on the wallet? Who's new being the wallet?

Can you said something about how you got thelet whose name?

Who's never being? The wallets.

Is flash back and just I think what we see and I think I got into in love cause for as.

Last week and that pretty much people do understand this.

I own a centralized worlds, I own centralized words, and I understand our government work around for as. Yes, criple itself as decentralized principle, But what I was making you understand is that as the lookers we have government, what is really what we call centralized. It's not really decentralized. And you know, I told I spoke about the fact that I don't want reported in new stands, the fire government throughs.

That was it thirty five with that.

Self me know, and critics were like, men, you're needio that the news is not possible. You can freeze and make you understand that scene. We have different forms of wordt the saying accounts. People don't really understand the application of you check the CI the MBI is skeleton cryptocurrencies. You can freeze centralized worlets.

You can use much contracts to disable to centralized worlets.

You're seeing it in the case of titter, So what can you swimpy telling is that as much as cryptocurrencies are centralists, we need to as much as they have use cases in traditional feelers, they don't really have that word into simp value or important. Said it gives Diamond said it. So I don't think it's fair for us to start making it an issue. You need to look at the tractional fillures aspect of all value. You need to understand why they say it doesn't but it's not.

It doesn't mean that he has.

Those stop value.

It's a argument ongoing, but reality is that crito currencies are not centralized as.

We think they are.

And I'm making that governments in.

Different countries have ceased foozing, confliccated critical coreny.

I'm talking about bitcoin. You're talking about.

Okay, but let's go back to the basis. You want to hold bitcoin. I think it's you can hold bitcoin and you can make money from it. I'm not against that. I'm not against that. Like I've said clearly, and you and you can't. You can you can stick. I hear you, brost Listen, I hear you. If you hold bitcoin this year, you've made a lot of money last year, a lot of money. There's no problem with that. You can also even stick your bitcoin and get fixed returns that are

Exactly what mobile studies empty? Exactly what can you say in use case not it's the only issue that will.

But then you can get exposure because it's something that rows from out of nowhere. But like you said, we need by now, he said no, it would by now.

Because he rather hold onto DECII.

So we need to understand those traditional finals definition of of this asset. I understand, guys, where you guys look at the fact that first coins is traditionary th inside that don't put this putting that discom was created to defeat that purpose.

But the reality is that we live in an entity that when the system.

Becoregrated, there's so much trouble. One of the problems market.

Has every regraded. You've seen so much comes. We look at how much nagieras are lost in Potalo projects triple entities. So you need to be very conscious and careful and understand the limits. That motive is absolutely in us. Nottil is absolutely guess by the fact that the text book would tell you that.

Such as I said, thank you, excellent let's take someone else. Let's take kay, kay, what's in your mind? Okay, you got a handle, k what's in your mind? Let's take lifelong learner, lifelong learner, what's your mind? Go ahead, Hey you guys, your hands up. Lifelong be.

Doing?

Yeah?

Can you hear me?

Now?

I can thank you having following all a long. I can.

I can see what you're doing, the goodies you're putting.

Have been following.

Thank you so much for your worldsover. I just want to add a little comment on.

The b t C.

Yeah, all the kind I think one hundred percent I agree with you for now. B t C I think is more like an n F t.

O bad.

Like with time, there is what we called I think mister look me that has been following over with the space.

With defire and order.

So there is what we call them zero knowledge proofs that will still.

Coming future of b t C.

So b t C people are also by I need for for the technology that it doesn't exist now, but to exist in future.

So I think there's another reasons some group of people.

That's a good point, Like that's a good point. Investment might not be now that's a good point. I can I concede that point. That's a good point. I am buying today for what will happened tomorrow. Interesting point. I concede that point to you. Yes, sir, I agree, good point noted. Let's get okay, okay, what's your mind? Okay, okay, let's get no such thing as waste? Interesting? What's up? No sarching as waste? What your to? Go ahead.

And everyone?

How you doing, sir?

Well, yeah, I'm fine.

I'm fine because going through.

I know.

You have.

It has really really ruding over over the years since ninety seventy one, when uh, when next thing came off the gold standard and it's more like everything is paid onto onto every.

Currency is paid.

Onto the dollar.

So I do that in rule.

Your orders kind of apparents in the world because it so sorry, look go ahead, go ahead.

No so I hate to jose, could you, uh.

If you explain deeply what's the new Kic theory and the Quantine effect is? When is it affected a lot of which other which a vein is one used to two hate again such and previously.

Your funds if I heard your line was breaking up. But if I heard you correctly, you are asking about how you can hedge your funds. Is that what you're asking? Yes, yes, okay, all right, so good broad question. Let me just see if I can answer broadly. So when you say hedge, you are trying to protect it from something. The most common hedge is against inflation, and that hedges against a

Right.

So when you want to hedge, you want to go back to that quote unquote biz. You want to try to buy an asset that is tied nearer to what was hedging you or what was giving your currency value. The most common is gold, but you can carry gold around the whole place, right, what about commodities? You also can carry gary or maze around the whole place. So folks like to go towards currencies. What currency is not the US dollar, right, perhaps the Yen, the Swiss franc,

So.

To hedge means you are going towards something that was previously a base for a currency, either to a commodity or to a currency. If you're going to a commodity like I said the Swiss frank Yen Australian dollar newsaland those things are very very good. If you're trying to go to US our commodity perhaps gold. Now you have gold ATM machines. If you go to Costco, if you go to do buy can bud goals on the ATM.

I think it was natural, Okay, So yeah, I think we've talked about the.

Years, the bonds and concerns of the rige. You know, I talked about possession.

And trust.

So I don want to address the risk as because from outside of things.

We really do not see that he's as risky as people perceive it to be.

I think it's what what's your side? What's your side? You say your side? What's your side?

I mean my side of the like say, my perspective on the market. Basically, yeah, so why is writing? So first of all, it's okay, he carries risks here. Yeah, the returns are higher, but gam then we don't control the currency. So whoever he is looking at it the target, I get that, look at it Okay, Well, if I am going to forsake alternative, that's US treasuries or US bonds for this switch base higher, what the odds I will get my money. So I'm going to address that question,

Why would I tell my clients or whatever, or my friends to invest if they have the money.

It's a five year bond, right, you allowed.

That it should pay at least eight percent years, so let's put it at ten percent.

That puts the interest cost at sixty million. But for five years. Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much. Why because we just I mean thee.

Retail dodge options that just happened that I'm linking it to the dicision in our reserves by ten hundred and eighty one million dollars.

So so as almost half a million.

What am I saying?

I'm saying I don't think half a million is going to be a problem for the further government in.

The five years.

I think if this takes off, I still have in doubt. I think it's probably going to be under subscribed. But if it's not, if I'm wrong and it's oversubscribed, I think it's going to be a priority case in for this administration. But then that now includes what they call like, well, I'm sorry, political risk, because the vision is five years million, a new government comes in betweenty twenty seven, three years from now, we know how the country is and how

They could just come and say, okay, I'm going to talk to you guys when it's supposed to be things like that.

But but now this I really do, out of which the political risks for me is the highest. But I do think that the I'm skeptical on the NR, so I'm skeptical on assets associated with the neerror that I'm not sixteen. So that's where I don't have two questions from actually three questions from mister number one. It's media because you know people are sort people have one thousand dollars, they're done account, they're keeping four years two thousands.

No one has that.

Not everyone has that ten So do you think its years should be involved people who could actually need pro funds together?

That's the first question in this US.

The second question is set to really, which do you and how do you? How would you advise me or someone? Two out major autolis like if someone say I'm looking at I'm looking for defensive stock income stock and a little bit of good. So how would you have advise me if I want to put fifty percent of my equity portion for you in deferences to thirty percent in income stocks as valuest evident.

In those stocks. There's the second question.

The third question would be, I see your post about how much neglect you know the you know, the Nigerian population it gives the stock market in the comparison toward that develo of countries and you know, So what do you think I can be done to change that?

Do you think it's that it's a structural problem or do you think it's just.

It's a thing of.

More financial literacy needed or more financial education needed?

Public question?

Thank you, thank you for question.

So none start.

I will try and be brief.

So the inviting about the Nigerian economists that many people are not like Calum So I see people are like Calues.

That Calus is a nagas poralized.

Exposed to different assets, has k us that is ready vopped in different markets, that can any effects The average Nigiera does more, won't aim at bove one future thousand much less ethics. So when people start saying denis crap, uze this.

The stock markets is stop.

It becomes the problem for me because you have to start from somewhere right, and if you look at life, you.

Have to start with what is that really? Just like what Calu said, the man that buries the talents do not get interested. The man that used one to get to grew and was rewarded.

So you start with what you have first, and what you have opportunities might not be stable, but you.

Have no choice. And that's the narror. So another problem is bad.

Mindset about the nagera captain market who invested so much money is lost so much money. The problem we just kind of narrative is not because they are not true. The problem we dose narrative is because they're extreme. There are also certain people in the population that invested in the stock market, that set their kids to private verses, that are well, that use houses.

I did a lot of great things. Now the person is that the Nigerian stock market is not efficient.

Is not is not is not like what you have with the US.

Also, the UK market is not like the US. I invest in, U can invest in thefore re market. I can tell you that not thing is like the United States of America.

So if you're comparing you to America, I think you're in for a joke.

Then you also need to look at your any capacity, your level of knowledge.

Stock market is easier and safer to invest. Why because the massive mom you can't lose it is ten percent.

The massive mom is stock and go is ten percent, So you cannot be so dumb.

Also that when you see your asset dropping as thirty forty, you need to take losses in.

US stock markets.

And as I can go thirty percent and as I can also go down forty percent, we've seen that.

Do there sectary breakers now?

So you need to take advantage of what you have at your exposure. And as I said, apart from the fact we have a.

Disposable come problem, we also have a cultural perspective.

Those people dimigrated in US because I was investing in you.

The two thousand won't take crash.

My older cousins that invested, they were swimming for textbooks.

Take blue in America, it don't be improbled. The Master dropped by more than half fifty percent of its value. But look at what we are. We are living in the tech cara, our pull Google to everything of the market improves over time.

Nigeria is not doing be but I can tell you that nat market has been who we have now you can look at I can look at my market makers, I can look at be spread.

I can look at different things.

And that's why I said that that what you have, because you say, why syst what we have? With that, you have to imput your any capacity to be able to make efforts if you cannot convince your if you cannot enny, Now, I wanted to think you will do better with any because you're competing around periods of people and there there's a world's gap. So you how to start by understanding how to invest, how to be disciplined, how to grow, and that's where personal finance.

Place in mad your rule.

So the excuse that okay, nagera'stock is not liable, give that aside.

You want to give the knowledge so that you use that knowledge to invest.

Because if you cannot, if you cannot swallow na.

Losses, how would you swallow the losses?

If you cannot deal with inefficiency of within your system, how.

Would you survive? That's why I said that.

See, if you're a tribal person in the country, for example, when you go outside, you're going to have a lot of problems.

So you have to really understand how to deal with whatever you are.

If you are from a ritual, yeah, you can't start with us around no body is constant. But the problem in social media is that many people live exaggerated lifestyle. Many people say things they are not being all new where we start there from.

You know, many of us, our parents are not.

Down cooties or in middle so we all understood that we pass through from group.

So you have to learn the group.

And the good thing about investing is that it's a general It's just like science.

Depriotic people, cash on is cashion. Everywhere in the world. Investing rules are the same. It's just the market fundamentals that are different.

So you start unders starting those perspectives. Then you know the dinner, dinner, outlook, the outdoo. Like I've said, really affirmed that many times Kudor has a strong condition with so no matter what the CPN doors, it can only by time.

But I think for us, especially younger, the younger.

Publish what we need to work on this any capacity, and while we're excising the government because we cannot just before government we sit out on level. The last decade was for those that are with the depory government.

You see what have harp so you cannot see to your going with on that.

So while you're still have to get to do something and inflation is high, the valation is so you needed to put exposures for me, I say, the easiest place to invest for having the journeys and just talk market in one tut they bottle of cop would buy you twenty five defense types of stocks in the n GX.

So you can't try that in America.

Do you know how much it dollar is to just do you know how much?

No, I'm just trying to make it because the truth of the matter is that, See, you have to start from somewhere.

If somebody gives you five thousand dollars, good, you can ignore the Nigerian stock.

I don't have a problem with that. When you don't have something, you're not eating, your complaining and don't want to start from the end. Sorry, nobody is going to help you. And that's the problem I have. That's the problem I really have with so a perform The fact we have.

Supposed to become cultural problems, the fact that people give a.

Bad name on the market.

Don't even who has.

About seven successful businesses listed on the stock market. If you look at each of those investments, because I have exposure in all of them, it has done better than the average European stock I invested last year.

Now, the question is why am I investing because a pert from the fact I'm Nigerian. I want to understand that your business is better than.

Foreign businesses, and I understand the market people old nagerial stalks like us talks. We are going to get into trouble because American companies are usually older, are more efficient. Nag companies are younger, inefficient and unstable. You need to understand these things. You don't treat an American woman like a nageranman. I always say this this off many times. Despite the fact that they are both we met, they are culturally different because of environmental and.

That's interesting, interesting, very interesting.

Yeah, because that we really need to start from somewhere.

We really need to start from somewhere, and the matter is that we have to start with world we are. I wish we can all be successful, but the better about life is that we have to sow seed but also wet and if we do so, with all we.

Start, we will leave this by So.

The togist, I think starting from our own markets is in no printer because it's easier. You learn so much a bit over time you can migrate. Many of us are trade for your markets. Who started from you have to market you can.

Also, it makes you gives you.

Exposure to understand the companies their balance statement. You see some people talking about GIT. They don't know how GIT makes money. They don't know what makes GIT different.

They don't know why you be is what this? They don't know what asss bank is, what is investing? We teach you all those things over time.

Then you get better Superor information because.

You lead to investment bankers. I have six different broaders.

I talk to about a dozen investment bankers a week to get top information about what is happening.

So I'm not just reading.

I'm also getting.

Top valuable information from insider and that you're investment bankers are not expensive or like Europeans if you open Europeans standard accounts. For example, I ask if you know how much financial world moneyment fees?

If you know how much the pay.

You start with your advantage, which advantage and who being consistent at all.

In effect that you're saying you are you saying that if I'm a Nigerian guy in Nigeria just starting out is best for me to start with Nigeria than going foreign. Even if I could make more, I could hedge.

Just to be clear, Yeah, because the problem is that you know the the the the around him, sorry, the the investments is that there's not like floor you're going to ask this morning.

You need to lend the roops just like someone wants to lend the car. You start your diving lessons on the express feed.

You might survive, but you're surviving when you get the horn of.

Your trailer or the you see different cars running at the speed of power.

But when you start, when you start on.

The streets, so as you put this one, okay you that you push.

You got that? That's how we a that's how many because all right, I drive on the express.

Bit that's the problem.

Along, Start slow, start slow, I hear you.

Let's actually the mic because no, no, no, no.

Toberry. You've got the flow to the berry.

Okay, okay, I'm saying I just wanted to appreciate you and miss lud.

Conversation.

Thank you appreciate that. Just have a lot of fo to speaks precient that yes to the very good flow. Thanks you appreciate.

Your candor go to doing the space today.

Yeah, very well.

Yeah, I requested for the micro and we were discussing, you know, this store value on bitcoin good.

I just don't want to share my perspective.

You know, if you had asked.

The Comoto ten years ago if bitcoin won't bitcoin it's got to work seventy thousand dollars, I think it would have argued with you, or if it's going to agree with you, it would have agreed that the world would be in a mess. So my point here is that these assets that we are mentioning, they're just.

On their own.

It is the actions of the government, the policies of the government. They on end the money painting, you know, the local activity globally, the low GDP. That's why these assets add assets add money, That's why they are going up.

It's not really their own use case.

But an example, what's hard assets given as ad asset, an odd set is gold.

Their casts is of add sets, right, they are they have to be relatively scarsts.

They need to be.

It needs to be interchangeable, it needs. So it's it's really the quality of the cast of money. So as much as those are set have those characteristics of money, they could be regarded as adda sts oil. People forget that oil is black gold, right, it's also had money because everything we do in life is energy and the best form of energy right now, but perhaps owing to nuclear is.

Still oil and it is limited.

But my point is.

Based on known no nods. There are some things that we can we can we can predict right now.

All central banks around the world are points and money and they are never going to stop because they need liquiditing the system, They need fund the government.

Nangia is not an exception. The US itself is not an exception.

Now, when you know that already, you can start polate what the consequences of that is.

It means that at some point a lot of money will be chasing.

Very few things.

Now, let me say today, as today, there are two very big problems in the world.

I want to land this plant on this landing play.

Yeah, I'm just gonna land it this way.

There are two major problems right now, and I think those products as to better than the next day years.

One is foodscasting. The other one is bad money.

So our conclude by saying we could get to a future where only good.

Money would buy your food.

So regardless of we get looking up in terms of dollars, it's actually what you're going to exchange for in the future.

So I'm just gonna stop it. Thank you.

I'm like, I get the point you're making that in effect, food is we need food, but we don't need money. So in effect, if I export grain, I could say I want this particular currency to pay for my grain. I hear you, but you forget the fact that the government can basically invade on the land and take all their food. Might is always right, and eventually, if you look at the strongest currencies, they always correlate with the strongest navy. If I just sell government to keep printing,

I agree with your other that's where we need that said, that is your position.

How can it be if it's if we if we how can how can gold and bitcoin be in your possession when the government can say you should no longer hold gold or no longer hold bitcoin. It's your position.

So so in the US there's there's.

The Bill of Rights and the same US, the same US band holding gold. The same US banned individuals holding gold. The answer everyone to gold, they banded. That's the whole idea. Now they says, so that your gold, you cannot hold gold individually against which was breaking which was breaking the law. But the point I'm making side is this that government says you can't hold gold. So eventually, whatever the government says money is is what money is going to be.

I don't know did you that you but I get your point.

But as someone in the US, the US Constitution says no other states ch have anything else apart from gold and silver.

That is not true.

It says legal tender. It doesn't say you can't hold it. The US Constitution no, no, no no, you are legating the means to pay debt. You can hold this, but you can't pay debt. So the US government has already in the past banned you from holding gold. Why can't they bann you tomorrow? I mean, remember a few years

I wouldn't because that's not in the constitution. But for gold and silver, you'll be preaching the constition and I there's not that toever be in store value or.

All I'm saying is that is the government that determined what currency is not you it can be you can hold cows and your cows are valuable. I'm not disputing that your cows are valuable. I am saying the government says today that cow, that milk is currency. If you hold bitcoin, you are broken. I'm not disputing the that that you're that your bitcoin or your corrector your goal.

Okay, let me let me, let me count tie it this way. If I'm gonna go with your point, then nothing else can be corency. The dollar you are holding a piece of paper. The currency you want today is a piece of paper.

The only reason why it is valuable is because the US goverment is stamped US government. It has no value whatsoever. There's a point im making Bitcoin is a fast, superior thing than paper currency. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm saying, because you are not the government, you cannot wake up and say bitcoin because it's fast superior, will have to use Bitcoin doesn't work that way. The government is slow. The government is an ass but they're at the government.

So I'm.

Exactly if there is no government, there is no currency, even the gold and the bitcoin would be waterless because the government makes the currency itself, makes the economy functions. If you take that a way, then you can say you're removed here place with bit so you remove government basically probably Sector Haber, it's not possible. Let's get that's good. That's donkey dooky Capital. Thanks thanks much.

Thanks.

I've been watching, I mean, I've been following you guys for the past.

Couple of years.

It's it's always nice to to be part of you guys. I love what you do all the minute. You you are always you're always on points. I mean, you get your insights and I know because I'm also doing the same trying to also get my information from inside as well. I have almost my brokerage just like you. I love invested in the germ I get. I love it because it's it's it's so easy. I mean, so I just enjoyed I enjoyed I mean American markets, so I'm exposed to South African markets as well.

So my question is.

What is what are the companies that I've been following A couple of a couple of the companies in Nigeria that are actually into tech, the tech companies in Nigeria, company like c W g uh He Transas companies like because I'm looking at the Ai revolution that is coming and I think Nigeria can actually benefit from it since it's one of the black nations and the biggest Black nation and unhead actually we haven't really done anything to actually bring the the the youth actually into that yet,

Olive telling me your reputerator or statistics place.

About good question.

If you look at the talks the pathologist talks on the NJX, you see that they are fairly profitable. But you need to also look at your car statistics. Between Landry investors and America investors.

You know, America has the.

Amount of listed the companies, the most profitable, biggest, but due to the matter is that they have different temperaments. We have group apart from the app the macros of the big magnifiens and other steaming the complies. Many the companies are good, meaning that they are we have that good than profitability. But if you look at that in Nigeria stock market is a different board gaming that line.

I in this on the stock market. I can't die it for free. You get hot, you know.

So if we look at what those guys are doing, they're focusing on business to business government.

Look at what charms in the.

I space, payment space.

Eats at the fact that as as bad as exposure. So yeah, I agree with you that there are opportunities. But uent is that line gan List their companies are more realistic than they want to see outside.

You see all this with their companies. You see what's happening to them now.

The problem is posted apart from if you will, like pigi uh pay start that.

Way you can see the real scenario with that space.

So uh we haven't said that in mister problems and why because they call their acountry side the just profitability efficiency just dept.

So yes, the present minister is trying to promote these days. But you see, the other concerns we have is that Nigeria.

List companies are not rewarded despite the fact this guys, these.

Guys open their books, they least on the stop market. A many of them are really exposed to direct cop contracts.

That's the problem.

That's the problem we are facing.

And until we start rewarding efficiency, people that are productive end on people that know.

Somebody knows, somebody pushes in.

Because if you look at step contracts in fire government deals, look at because I've tried to choose you already see charms.

C W said there.

Working with Dimitry, I was kind of excited one systemic.

I was kind of excited. And you know what Assets is doing with it transacts. I think people need to watch that space, you know, the assets as so I think over time the ngs will evolve.

But the writing is that because tech works with liquidity, America is going to be America because not because of liquidity. There's a culture of risk. There's a culture of research, is a culture of development. Nigeria we don't have those things.

Yeah, so it's really really time. So for me, I think becausambly, I think it does need to be very really exposure. You know what what what what?

What are your top three or top two picks in the tech space for those the guy that wants to get exposure, look good, It look like the MT it's going to be more that you haven't there.

I don't given these stocks or the areas.

Your stocks, like what stocks are looking at in terms of topic, I want to measure on boards, you know. So generally you know.

Like I said, I have exposure in differentities or investment.

So I'm also the city. But if you look at you look at me. For me, when there was this think Pank, I knew think it's not that, but I knew that it did not have the what you took because I look.

At just to push on capability, I look at the capital piece and I look at the abbas leverage. If you look at empty and that's by the fact empty and created record thos because of f skin. They are penetrating in different text place. Gradually it's becoming a kind of systemic.

You look at how first Pank.

Did with agency banking, First money empty and is clime to capture resentments, where like giant banks are really kind of not really I'm talking about not out of the country.

So I think ertain we has good prospect.

But generally I think me, I'm increasing my exposure in those tecompanies.

Are measured and the banks. The reason why I'm increasing look at for.

Example, degrees are ary paid from a reception that have been profitable, and lot of.

People say, what are very pain because they don't do they.

Do with merchant and the sure plans. So this are kind of exposures. Are we looking at and looking at businesses that can leverage your number of customers, the capitalist they and the risk to mess up, especially in an unstable pape eco.

So I may also ask you I saw again, just go back to but I saw there is in AI to to approve laws like you can apply for sile that you can apply for get an ounside in like twenty four hours.

Yeah, yeah, good question.

F C and B starting f C and B Starling Wilmar.

These banks are something you need to watch out when he talks or when it comes to take exposure, you know, starting for example, like money, A lot of people don't know that he's a man from Arsential, that we were the founding for us of inter Switch. So you look at starting banks products spot on. I look at the price right now because I think this year is one

I would I'm looking at the upside because Jemmy yea, he has really been able to.

Hire friends, sectors as people around what you're really talking about using technology to join the young population.

And particularly women.

He's building products around women and say eventually exposures to expot up.

So yeah, is an interesting thing. But you see, the question is that you really need to know what.

You're looking for.

If you're looking for long returns, definitely your own banks. If you're looking for larger or rootky of course the two banks who come to play. Then if you're looking for capture the bigger market, well when was dropping below which was really really good bye boards. Right now MS seems to be breaking and looking to break about.

So it looks like your.

Investment objective, the private entry.

Your liquidity, your exists really make up all this. So it's not just about looking at the market. Thank you, eliminated.

To move on get us.

Last question is my last question is do you think there.

Can be any tech company in Nigeria that can pull the stunts? That's some companies in America called right now in sterns of saying they are changing the strategies of their reserve assets.

Okay, I don't think so.

I've said, I've said, and that's where I have wished many crypto fancy or fanatics. We are not realistic in Nigerians. The Nigerian political spiece is not is supportive of.

Reality.

One princ reality we will to defeat our enemy. It truth is that some deals on top business entrepreneurs, they are receptive to ards crypto or the establishments.

From the national tempy to those because of power we have ske skeats a cryptore said. We've seen that not just worry, is not just relificity. It's not just despite the fact that you see that there's a cloud around it. Until we fight that part too, I don't see it happening.

In the next few years.

Thank you, gotcha. Let's get King King, mister King. Guys, we're gonna everyone to speak.

Not to worry.

We're shutting down as everyone's on this on the session of speak, So King go ahead.

All right, thank you very much, Thank you very much.

Carl.

I'm very grateful for the opportunity to speak along with you. Have been speaking right on points and I've been writing down.

Trust me, there's no ending.

The pursuits of knowledge, and I've really been, you know, taking down so many things. You know, one thing I always talk about, by the grace of God. You know, I also have exposure to the foreign market. But talking about the n endrom market, you know, I always seeing an.

Endry market from the standpoint of the l days of crypto.

The truth is on the long term, over time Nigeian stock market is almost like free mooney, bound to go if you know the right stock to engage in. If you look at their culture sector, the truth is it is booming.

You could see dang.

Here and then the whole lot of it.

You could look at the banking sector though they're having.

Some literary relapse because of capitulation and the whole lot of it.

But that is even a better pullback for them to go on.

So, first of all, whenever persons get to ask the question of all.

A lot of it.

Can yes, but can you go go to the question just so you can I get us go straight to your questions?

All right, very well, So before now the question I wanted to ask, and particular to mister Carlo, please, innotion humility, asked this question. Please, I don't know if you could do us the benefits.

I can then not say about me.

Precisely, the benefit of talking about the place.

I know you might nearly be.

One hundred percent open with it, but you do us a little bit of.

By talking about where you get the information, because most times I'm actually lagging in terms of getting the information, and before I get to see them, it's earlier on your world, and most of the times I get first on information from your word.

So I don't know.

I want to know rather or where did you.

Get your informations from. I'm not supposed to.

Ask, and I know the internet. The Internet.

The Internet is very very broad.

Indeed, indeed it's very very broad.

That is why I'm trying to as more as well for you.

If you could do all the benefit of stream learning.

No, I got too many. It's just that I'm focused on it. Really, it's nothing magic, just focused. If you're focused on knowing the scores of Chelsea Man City game, you get it.

I do a lot of.

Outlets on my phone, on my watch. When I read, I get a lot of news. I say, if you only just know what's happening, just subscribe to these news channels and read the newspapers and read the details, not just the headline, but the details, and use lots of treads you can pull and get information from. There's nothing magical about it, just if you want to.

Get it, alright, alright, And I think I'm also I could also give persons the opportunity to speak.

So thank you very much.

I'm very very grateful for having.

Me appreciate your calling. Is I appreciate that. Let's get Micah.

Michael Michael, I am yes, second, yeah, thank you so much for all your.

True and then so let me day as well.

One my question is I had a limited talk about that and I just stop market that you can't lose I think he.

Said more than ten percent, which actually I'm quite interesting, right, So I bought this stock VFD VFD, and I bought it around.

It was saying that two hundred and two, and then all of a sudden, I.

Think they had a stock split told her about and this top price felled to fourteen are up a ship?

Right? And then my money, my I think I invested like two hundred or two hundred king and it went down to like sixty five thousand, and I was like, what's happening? So I had to do something and I found out this percent stuff. So I was like, why would my de price of my stock.

Go down to six five king when they had this stock speed and my money is supposed to be an issue around that same range.

You know, it was fast, I.

Believe it, and went up to like six or the about.

So I was like, I used out to my stock broke up because I used African prest and I didn't get any response from them.

Then how to even ask.

The CEO VFD which is I wasn't his name that stuff?

What's my super I was like saying that the the the prs.

Of there about it was going to sell there there's still on it. And this is like almost a moond and and my key or my tot case five kids.

So it's so bad.

It's so so bad.

So I see you guys like talk about the I just stop market I'm asking you that gave you fun of you know, incouraging about to in person, and I just stop marketing. At the end of the day, you see that there's there's there's lack of efficiency, so just top brokers and so they are so bad, like their service is so bad.

And so poor.

I tried to I try to manage a free and beast because I feel that they're the only ones out there that's to be digital, but the rest of them are so poor.

Are interest signing off down?

So like why do you guys keep you know, talking about then I just stopped markets when at the end of the day, these guys are not even enough. So as as some persons thinking about movie on the now, and we were opening my hostop book and sets.

Of that kind of thing that yeah, yeah, so about to go to your first question. So only there was making the point that you know, when you have the market, the market can decline to a certain percentage to a flaw. So it can decline day by day by that ten percent, that's what he's saying. So if the share price is falling, once it falls by ten, that's where it falls for the day.

Okay, okay, that makes sense.

But overall, overall, if you invest in a good asset cost remember the value and the price are two different things, right, If you buy a company that's got good value, the price will keep on change. The price is based on demand and supply, but the value is based on airnings future earnings. So you could have a good company that during Christmas. People are selling their shares to go for Christmas or to pay for school fees. So the price

I can I communities, do you mind?

You don't mind?

So what affected their stock price from or was not like any news like I think they had the stock splitz, right.

So the price of their ship came down what they.

Offered more shares. That's that's not if it's a stock split. I had you said at the billing, but I told you you were if it's a stocks but then there's no change at all. You had ten shares at one hundred, now you have twenty shares at fifty. There's no change.

Yeah.

What I'm saying is what I'm telling you that in my in my account, the pricing go down.

I don't know, feel like I had to reach down to the CU then what actually So it was.

Like saying that there's your needs like assigned it has it has.

It had not do The CEO is the stock market. So once they do is stock split, and the stock split has occurred, it had not the company. Yeah, it just happens, or your stock price would fall, but your number of units would go up. So what you're asking you on your c s c s. You want to get those maybe your c s c S or a physical certificate when you find out from the company what's going to happen. But stock splits are not a falling price, it's the market pricing. The cut in capitalization. It's not

I'm also I think a lot of people need to find that the Niger top market asnique for.

That mental So let me give you ze Blan.

I both say plats.

Saying that our uncle.

The reason I bought that was because it was the company that had pictures that management.

It and this was the company that had the Also this on the lord of stop exchange.

I think you look at and I.

Don't wanted to understand the upstream business, but look at it now. The blood has reason too four thousand A.

Yes, I thought from my exposure, but I.

Still say that.

But what I'm trying to say is that you believe we look.

At the valuation of Vision lands in place, I've not done bad because the talk from that point is this stem as don't ten.

X the next over one that you said.

You know because you chourage you that time, brother, you can see you're you also need to look at what the metal talk very right.

And if what you think about the founders that those that metis revealed, Yeah, a little bit, good point.

The texts little the world go one up the next ten minutes, guys, Let's get the guys here and have spoken. Let's get s c h I. I can put that that name s c h I. Then will get ready, they will get official and then and then will get doctor e U and then of course we get also right now x x G is.

That you yes?

Yeah, go ahead, people quick one.

Someone for example, has.

Some amount of money and those who want to invest in maybe I'm asking if I can invest in treas, rebuts.

Or phones, which would let me Let me ask you a question. If I want to buy a car, we cas should I buy?

I'm a bit confused because it's just like someone retiring and getting.

This amount ex amount and you cannot just just go and if you if you leave it with yourself, you can waste it spending.

I'm asking you that if I want to buy a car, which CAS should I buy?

You have to have specifics a few readings for buying.

The car word excellent, excellent, use this excellent answer. So the same thing, right, if you have money, right, you want to have specific you are investing, how long you're investing, and why you want to invest that Those answers will tell you you should you buy a treasury bill or should you buy a stock. So look at it this way, right, if you are going to invest for more than one year,

Right.

So if you if I ask you how old are you? How let me ask you the question when would you want your principal back? Not there at alls? Your principal? When do you want it back?

Sae yeo two?

Okay?

A year of two?

Yes? A year or two? Is letting mean think that you want your fixed in comeback. You don't want you just want your money back to you. Whatever happens one year, two years, you want that money back exactly. You don't want to hear I'm coming, abbe.

I think that's why I'm asking for treasure bills or mutual phone something to have some time, I'm aswering your question.

I'm asking you a question. So again again, the neutral funds can buy a treasury bill. So you're asking, like, I don't want to use the wrong language. Your question is kind of I'm not trying to be disrespectful for it right, because the mutual phone can buy a treasury bill. What you're asking is what type of fixed income should you buy? Let me give you the answer. If you want to invest for less than three months. Less than three months, you can buy a treasury build for less

If wants to read now about investing, what books would.

You if you go from yeah, yes sure. If you do hashtag finn plant books as f I N P l A N books, you see lots of books that I've curated on investing, very very easy books finn plant Books hashtag thin plant books. It just gives you tons of books there and there are very very books that are easy to read and all that. Yeah. Good good websites for you. Mortally full m O t l E y f o o L, motorly Food is very very good.

You can go there.

They give you lots of broken down stop as well. I think also on handles you can follow what's her name assign it see I'm going to send you to the handles O. Look, can you post there's there's a tossin site Money Africa. Money Africa is very very good, the school at Money Africa. There's also Shaddy that does smart women investors. These are very very good site for you as well that you can follow the Nigerian so they can talk in that part with it for you.

Just DM me.

I'll send you after the space will post it. Just ask me after this, after the post and I'll send the handles you as well. Yeah. After is that.

You can actually this person?

Okay, go ahead, that's a good one. Go ahead, okay.

So that's all I have is going back to this.

Yeah, real quick, real quick. So going back to this okay, not not ready, just hold on, be very very quickly.

Okay. So going back to the dollar bomb, dollar bonds and treasure.

Views and Pella government is trying to flow.

So my question is would there float floating them they still follow the cycles or is it a case of the way they handle their treas treasures to speak, where the commercial bands are used as the collecting bands war the commercial bands getting.

Accossibly all the paps moving through.

The center bank and there you know from font manager there you.

Know custodian custodian bank.

So that I'm answering this question because given that the currency is not the Nian currency, and I'm worried that dislution where.

There is no custodian there's no maybe defiant men will be.

There one for managers.

It will have the same it will have the same rules to have the same issue house, the same rules. It's just different currency. Yeah, no change, just the same different currency but the same stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's an easy answer for you. Yeah all right, ready, worth speaking, it's the same issue the same guidelines, custodian issue house, the same thing, just different currency. Yeah, there's actually an issuing house and all that. Yeah, so ready you go ahead, ready, go ahead.

Yeah, Olive, they are there and will thank you very much for.

All the tangeria and range the level of the trading.

You guys are fast.

Let me go straight to the question.

I I converted my most of my money as sayings.

I converted.

And I'm giving them as as well.

And you know, I'll say so.

I now said, okay, I know how transition of just getting it as dollars. Let me buy goal starting goals.

And I feel safe.

Is there anywhere you guys can advise me on how I can.

Invest in gold without really having the physical goals?

I mean Nigeria as.

Sure as you understand, Yeah, you're in Google, you have to invest in the Yeah, great question. You have to invest in the security. So if you just google online, I don't know. If you in Nigeria, there setting apps allow you to invest in foreign issues securities. I think there are second proved as. I know there's bamboo, and know there's cali. Wise, I know there's shaka. So you have to invest in a foreign denominated security. The only

Yes, it's exposed to and that was why this talk at some point.

So it's one of the jap still the same Japaul guy, still that same guy. Yeah, but it's still the same guy. Still the same guy. Okay, I don't know, but I don't know. I don't know about that. But if you want to do Nigerian issue, is that new gold, but that one is very expensive. If you want to invest abroad, just google gold e t F. There are many of them, Google gold ETFs and you can invest in that e TF. It buys the gold itself, so you don't have to hold the physical goal. That's just the way you.

Want to do it probably many people. Is that for those that go to invest.

Amount of equidity, So for example, are you going to use the stress to invest or get to that?

By then the.

Very fee trans Actually what are you able to get?

A general so your level of it's like two thousands a B two thousand dollars two three for gold band now pernal.

That's what I'm doing.

You go to five.

Yeah, I mean mining stocks. If you buy the e T so you can buy and sell if it goes up. There's a big think. I think it's Bell Cram Jesus et. You can buy g G that's the comment. It doesn't buy just gold lord, it buys all commodities. Or you can buy gold directly. If you just google gold ETFs it will give you a ton of them, Bulkan gold, many of them are there, very very liquid. You can buy that if you want. That's just the way you

This is a trick, I thought the mic.

I wanted to have a question, but I wanted to.

Support to what I was saying, and I wanted to share just a few things my experiences a Nigeria marked and market, you know, across the world for people, for someone asking the question if it should invest.

In Nigeria or look outside.

And the limit I wanted I want to chime in here and tell what you think.

For me, why I cannot enjoy an Uria market is how the market react during market is lazy when it comes to reaction to information. So in the US, if something happens now doc market, as long as the market is opened, even when market is closed, DOC market will react immediately.

You will see it like if American presidents stays.

Something, or the fact president says something in the next ten seconds, not even.

Not to one NAT, the market will react.

Something would happen in my Inderia that should affect the sector. It will take three days two days at times one before the market react.

That means, and I do react.

It's safer if you.

Keep your ears open, if you know what is happening. Once you hear it happened, you.

Can actually react before the entire I get doted. I'll give you an example.

But the days you mess up, he says, I'm not about Japote.

Sorry, said is I'm.

Not gonna put my money Jampol anymore.

But when Japaul signed the contract to move from shipping line to gold, it came up. I think it was on my remetric or something. I had that control with one of my friends. The next day we went in big on Japote, but we went in that twenty five. I went in that my average ing back cobble. A few months down the line, jap Or hit about one hour and twenty cobble.

Like we all smiled, but people did.

Not react for like one.

Week, and at some point someone was thinking, are you sure this was.

Going to happen?

But we are look at it Chinese penpoting.

We analyze the risks we're going to go you so you're a bit sliper going into this is my opinion. Right, you're a bit sleeper going into Nigeria because Nigeria market doesn't.

React that quickly compared to foreign markets.

That's one dow.

Were you going to say something, okay, do you the morning markets?

I would say this a colors, I would want to part your opinion. Right, I make me and my friends we are we are smiling better in Nigerian morning markets.

Italian American market is currently.

So I play with that bad because someone asking them about technology house gone. You wouldn't believe it when you sign up with them about marketing for them.

Or that, or work with just my brogra.

Right, So you say, I said you smile more with the Nigerian phistical and America one now. For by the past three months, the Nigeria one.

Yes, if not more so.

The money market has been above twenty percent in Nigeria FX.

Specifically some other people TITA.

Between nineteen eighteen eighteen.

Percent, but almost all of them are all above. When you look at ICO, you look at the stamic.

A, b TC and all that, they are all about twenty percent and by the past one one they've been about percent.

Right.

So the money I have.

If you put money in America or in Europe. You came to be presided, right, this bank will give.

You about four point one percent in America, in Nigeria getting twenty two percent even with devol actility, even with the devalue evaluation of the currency.

So we crunch the numbers and we go.

Even if it hits two thousand actually dollars, you are still away.

I'm having it outside.

Things. Let me just quickly help him because we have to just wounder if you don't mind it. So the first one on when you say, the market to reacts that that's actually an advantage and niger does not react to this advantage because sorry, sorry.

Sorry, I'm just I'm directing my I was directing my opinion to.

The guy that was asking a question, so for him to be safe. So if you want to exist, if you hear something that you really's going to affect the market, if you want to exist and take your money, you know with your profits in Nigeria you can easily do the next day.

It depends on the liquidity. Right, that's the thing I'm going to like. The US market is small liquid in Nigeria, you might want to sell, not might want to sell and not find a buyer just and you can look at look at the volume. So I'm just giving you facts. Man, look at the look at the volume. If you look at nigral stock, you see a volume at the fire end of the table. Chat look at the volume. Sometimes

So and I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you honest, i'most looking out of the I'm looking out of what I'm doing. So you know, so if you put ten dollars in your US right and you put you convert that ten dollars, I'm putting in that Juri, one of my kids. Right at the end of the month, you crunch your numbers, you are almost over.

You will be almost over.

Or but you've got to go back to dollar. You've got to go back to No.

No, no, no, yes, yes, people were going back to dollar.

And this is practical.

I'm not This is not feary.

No, it doesn't work.

No, no, bro, if it if that worked, right, see what I'm trying.

No, I.

Don't want not argue. I'm not. I'm just trying to you.

Don't.

Let be very see if this was what you're saying, you're talking a very volatile market. This will have to pull a very big of the wor. That is not a factual statement. And the point I'm making is that if you say people should change dollar to nyra, yes, one time. Look at the carried trade just collapsed two weeks ago. The whole market in the whole world crashed because exactly what you're saying is a carry trade. You are boring from America to invest in Nigeria then to

You don't, some people, some people that are from Japan.

I'm not debating that this strategy that cannot work, and just giving the risks to folks that listened, that listen, if you do this, you are kind of risk that when you want to go back to your dollar, the Nira mould have moved and there's no profit anymore. It's not a guaranteed strategy to borrow in the dollar and invest in Nayra and then go back to dollar. That's why they you have to increase interest rate to entice pool to do what you're saying.

So the guys, let me be let me be as clear as like that.

I'm not saying somebody should borrow, We not borrow.

Yeah, if you're not borrowing, that is, it's not that it's.

Not exactly exactly which is.

But I think people that borrow borrow money from I got money from Japan, which is low.

You know, even before they push that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I haven't the money.

Back to the idea. All right, we got to go. I mean again, it's it's all all about investing and taking risks to points. I'm just trying to clarify. And I'm not saying if you in an and and I said, if you take money from your heelock and you buy your federal bone, I say it extending. You are saying, but you I'm not trying to put the guard was there to pull the listen if you do this, remember the risk is to go from naira back to dollar.

Since I hear you, we just have to I was gonna I was gonna have a little bit.

I was gonna have to lot their question, right, I was, I'm gonna say.

Something to you.

When when we talk about editing.

In my view, market right, it depends on who you play with, right age and the brokers who actually give you, who actually give you visibility for you to know the level of biding and the level of.

Offer on the stock.

The worst case in the role, you can have to be sent down and take your money and.

You get it everywhere everywhere gives it to you. Any broker, the daily report of the stock exchange. Go to your broker and ask for it. I mean, I mean you can get it from anybody. Just ask your broker. I want to see the live bid offer did you give If you're a big boy, does she give it to you? Ask them it's not it's not hidden information. Yeah, all right, we're gonna go with whatever role.

Do we have any policy also a form of security breaker in the market, because you see what happened with India, is it.

We have that's the question. We have circuit breakers because.

We have people pinning that would say, for instance, your go beyond No, no, no, no, we have second breakers.

Is I got to move on? I can't really literally move on. I'm gonna transit. Yes we have secuit breakers, and yes we have secuit breakers. We don't have market makers, but we have second breakers, which means in the stop for Placenta price, it's it's kicked off the you don't that stock? Yes, we do that. And let me very very quickly promise them to speak Dr Eu. Let's go the doctor Eu. It's gonna be our last guy.

Sorry, I hi everyone, Thanks, thanks for the opportunity because of it's the pleasure of being here.

I just I wanted them to share my views.

And add some Christians, but I think I'll just.

Go straight to the Christians since you.

My first question is around the.

Xagerial stock changing the equivalent for the U S SPFI fundress index.

I don't have much knowledge.

They have a few they have. If you go online to the n c X, look at the market they have this. You see there's I B t C forty. There are lots of the merry steam. Lots of folks have created indexes. Think what it means about the it's actually about like created like funds and all that. Yeah, they have. There's Bettifa, Betifa has, Marry Stem has, ib TC has, the Standard board.

Has Yeah, but did n G ex So if you look.

At standard stamping ib C.

You can pick those correct.

That's where we get more than about our market cap.

So very date and most of them.

Are depension equality, more efficiency and easy price discovery for the stuff.

That's when in local.

Rests book at that yep, yep does answer your question, sir.

Yeah, yeah, that's that's very helpful. I think I will DM you as well.

Those those.

The participant asked the question the earlier about investment, financial literacy and understanding.

Yeah, sell it to me. If I'll respond to him, just hurt me, don't they just hurt me. I'll respond with all those handles I mentioned, the books, the handles, I'll mention all of them in Nigeria, like I get to nine, I'll do a separate tweet on that, so you can have it all all ninet you people that you really communicate with it and all that kind of stuff.

Yes, last, lastly, and there is this room or going around not saying room or.

So if you.

Mentioned that it's MGS the coupon, there was a delay the payment.

I don't know if it's I've gone through the news.

I've not founded anything around it.

All these are from people that have invested, that invests in needs and they were mentioning there was I just wanted to check.

Yeah, if it's a delay, I don't think it's an issue. Maybe it's a delay one day. Perhaps maybe the issue has well or all they pay on time. There were cost and they pay on time. No problem to those those guys. Yeah, that's the safest investment in Nigeria. That's why the relators are lower. But a very very safe investment. Now, yeah, I will.

Receive payments on those.

Or you got you got yours?

Yeah?

Yeah, excellent, yeah, perfect, perfect, perfect, all right, folks, I do apologee, I got you all right. I do apologize, guys. I'm like on a transit. I came for a wedding. So I'm doing this out of the hotel room and I have to go catch up flight. Like I do, appreciate you guys, or call it in olimit it. I can't thank you not for just being in here. Short. This is once again just to talk and as you educate us all our investments, opportunities, bond stocks and all that.

Have a good day and bye. I'm leaving the man