Does Nigeria Need An Independent Central Bank?

Hey, folks, are welcome to another money space with mikaylu Aja. Of course, in this space we're talking money, we're talking in personal finance, and of course we're talking the economy. So this week we have a very very important topic. You know, it sounds very wonkish, very you know, high level, but it's very very important because this one topic that is going to affect you directly, i e. Directly right, we're talking those

Nigeria. Does Nigeria need an independent central bank? Of course we're asking this question because there reports now out in Nigeria, report there by Bloomberg and of course from the grip Vine that in Nigerian legislators want to take away the monetary powers of the Central Bank of Nigeria. In essence, what they want to do is this, they want to remove the power of the Central Bank Governor

and the Board committee to set interest rates in Nigeria. They want to give that over to a quote unquote committee that will be appointed and I'll report to the executive Committee to the Minister of Finance. Let's put it that way, So monitor policy would lead the Central Bank of Nigeria and will then go to

the Central Bank of to the Ministry of Finance. That's a very very dangerous proposition, guys, and I just want to explain what it means to you and how it affects you were taking it so seriously, don't want to have a space as regarded. So, first of all, as we currently stand, the Central Bank of Nigeria is quote unquote independent, which means that when a certain bank of Nigeria set interest rates, it's not supposed to go to

the executive to ask for permission. But let's if well dial back and let me explain why interest rates, why is the interest rates are even important, and how that occurs in the economy. So, first of all, guys, when you go to your bank to borrow money, you are charged interest on the money you borrow, So you are renting money from the bank, the bank charges your interest. How does the bank set that interest rate? They center the bank uses the interest rate set by the central bank in that

country. So in Nigeria, our benchmark interest rate is called the monetary policy rate. So when you go to your bank, your bank is business interest rates to you based on the monetary policy rates. So how does it work when the Central Bank of Nigeria or any central bank sees inflation, Let's depind inflation now as a lot of money in circulation with not a lot of good So you see general price levels going up in the economy with velocity. Let's

defy infation as that, so we see prices rising. How does the central bank fight inflation while they increase the cost of you getting credit? So the center bank will tell the banks our monship policy rate is, for instance, twenty percent. That means no bank will lend to you below twenty percent because if they ever need to borrow money in the short term, they have to

run back to the Central Bank of Nigeria. So, in effect, when they set the maunship politic rate at twenty, what they are doing is setting a flaw on credit in naira from Nigeria that means nobody can lend to you below twenty. When they make money expensive and interest rates expensive, the idea is that it reduces your appetite for credit, so as an entrepreneur, as a small business owner, you don't borrow as much because you're going to pay

more if you have credit. This is the role of all central banks in the world. The concept of central banking is very very new and it came around central banks, that is, were invented to fight inflation. So literally, the reason why you have the FED, the Bank of England as not private banks, but as government in quote banks, it's because they are set

up to fight inflation. So who creates inflation? Milton Friedman said, inflation is a monetary fiedom no, meaning that it is created when you print too much money, because it's the government that owns the money. So when the government prints too much money, that too much money is now the too much money chasing the too few goods in the economy, which is now inflation. So let's dial back now to what the nijournalists. Let's you just want to

do. What they want to do is to say the Central Bank of Nigeria will no longer set interest rates. Why I give you the answer, it's because they want an executive person, which is a politician, to set interest

rate. It's what will happen if that happens. That would mean that they will simply reduce the MPR or give the phedagon Nigera a special window their reduction in the NPR for government borrowing, which you then allow the pederg of Nigeria to borrow more because right now, if they borrow, their hamstrung by the

high interest cost. But if you remove the high interest cost, of course they would borrow and print as much as they can because now they don't have to worry about a secondary body raising interest rates are making borrowing expensive for them. So look at it. Right now, if the Central Bank borrows on it today, they have to pay about twenty percent because MPR in Nigeria is

also that double jets is also high. But if you then go and tell certain part of Nigeria that in ministry Ministry of Finance that is run by the executive is going to be the one to set interest rate, then what do you think is going to happen? Clearly they would borrow at much much lower rate, so they will desire to borrow at much lower rate, so they

will reduce the MPR. If they reduced the MPR, or for federal government or even for just those guys that are borrowing, it allows money to flow with velocity, it to increase suspended by the federal government, and it will coust your own savings to lose value because it then incentive bases inflation. They've

done this before. This is not the first. San Najera has done this before in the past under the military Nigeria in nineteen ninety seven, they took this lunchial policy also away from the central back of Nigeria to the Ministry of Finance. Go back and look at the inflation rate in Nigeria under the military, then come back and understand what we're trying to do here. Today. We are fighting high inflation that is caused by the government going out to print

and borrow in excess of twenty one trillion. This is outside the budget. Outside the budget, that twenty one trillion has now been securitized, meaning that we have taken that twenty one trillion and made it into a bond that you

and I and all Nigerians are going to pay. So by taking the rights the power of much policy away from the central bank to a politician, you can see that the idea is to borrow more at a lower interest cost and that is not going to help or to aid any Nigerian holding the naira. This signal is clear, we're going to tax you more and we're going to depreciate the currency by reducing the interest rates to borrow. There is no other

reason why they will do this. Apart from borrowing, they also want to increase ways and means that they can allow the central the plagment to borrow three years ways. That means we're not clear if it is three years com relative or if it is three years average. Do you know what that means? That means they can simply say, for the last three years, we made revenue of twenty billion, twenty billion, twenty billion, therefore we can borrow

ten percent of sixty billion. Doesn't make any sense. You just wake up and you borrow because there's no tax revenues, so instead of creating tax revenues, they want to go back and borrow. It's bad news. Guys. You should be very, very worried about this. That's what in the space, so we can educate you on this. Your Naira will lose value because your executive is going to spend more than they can bring into revenues. And

I try to cover the deficit, the project deficit by printing. Hence this idea to reduce our interest rates by giving it to a ministry official and not to the Independculia Bank. Guys, my rant is almost done. I'll let you guys speak and I'll come back and talk about why. I mean, the central bank set this up. The Center Bank under m FLA was badly wrong, so they set themselves up for this because now the guys will say, well, MFLA printed so want to control a methil, so he set

himself up for drags. But Nigeria is bigger than the filet, which you do not use as an excuse to put ourselves for sanctions globally because not everyone knows that the naira is not wrong, but the central Bank, but by a ministry appointed committee. Undoka, what's your take on this? I see your you're the best to hop in here. What's your takes? I go ahead, real quick, go ahead? Oh I jumped into my spaces. Yeah, Calu. I just want to be clear, just want to I'm

reading my DMS now. Just want to be clear Calo on this. Just to be clear. I read the I read the Bloomberg article and it says that the the legislatures wants to approve a committee headed by the Minister of Finance. That would yes, But the Minister of Finance is the coordinative minister of the economy. Is this not why they are doing it? I did not simply just saying that because the Minister of Finance is the coordinating I get what

you're going to So he's asking the question. He's saying that, because the Minister of Finance is the coordinative minister of the economy, then that guy should be going to set interest rates in the economy because he's coordinating. No, sir, that's not true. Look at it again. Let's give me on our scenario. The executive's job is to spend money. If you become a

president or a commissioner or whatever, your job is to spend money. So you want to spend money, The control, or should we say, the way we keep you in check is by having an independent central bank that can

control your desire to spend by raising interest rates. So look at the US and look at if you remember how the US was fighting on that President Donald Trump, when Donald Trump wanted interest rates to reduce so he could spend more or to allow the economy to grow, and the FED chairman was fighting him to say, no, we've got to keep interest rates higher or to reduce them slower, just to make sure that we don't have this optical impleation.

Even today in America, the FED and the Presidency are still fighting. The Presidency wants is to go down. The FED is saying, nope, we see inflation moderating as fast as we want, hence want to keep it the way it is. If you take inflation away, the power to set multipolitate away from the Cibyan, all you are doing is you are incentivizing the executive

to spend more. That's essentially it. And that's why there's this separation of the central Bank in every country from the Ministry of Finance and every country you can say because it gives on the title as coordinative minister that allows the person

to spend. This is a spend and it will have a direct effect on your wallets because when the governments starts to spend, or put the better way, when they start to print and spend because the laws are allowed them to spend three years average of revenue, and it will affect your neira directly because there's no revenue coming in to backstop that spending. This is print and spend, not end and spend. It is dangerous for the NYRA and dangerous for

the budget. So I hope you get that point very clearly. You haven't do it. Coordinative Minister of the Economy and number two call of just be clear. Is it three years average revenue or are they saying that they want to spend three years of what the government has and can you clarify that point?

Yes, we're also not clear on that. The proposalized saw online says three years revenues of the federal government is going to be the quote un quote the basket that they're going to use to determine how much they can borrow their ways and means. Right now it is five percent revenues or I think's it moved up to ten percent before they changed the law, it was five percent of pastures revenues can be spent on ways and means and blew that out of

the water. Right now, I'm seeing three years, but they're not clear. Is it three years average or is it three years? Addition? Then becomes debate to use to calculate how much you spend. Not clear on that, so I can give you an answer. What's in your mind? You do? Go ahead? Thanks for DM guys appreciated. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. What's up? I can hear you very well, sir.

What's up? Yeah? Is there wenestern that I want to ask because to me, I don't know if the Central Bank of Nigeria is truly independent from them the executive considering what's happened during a mission and the bug are you saying that the the executive in Nigeria and not in controul of the central bank.

We're the central bank. We are busy printing money. The Central Bank of no will tell you that the President said, you know, so, looking at all these things, you know, is this autonomy just perceived autonomy or is it? Well, I mean it's you see the problem when when you ask this question, you put people like us in a in a tight spot. We can't talk again, We can't explain our way again because put us

in a situation. According to the laws of the Central Bank of Nigeria and the laws of Nigeria on paper, the Central Bank of Nigeria is independent according to the law setting them up. They can spend money to defend the naira. They can set monche rates as this dim fit. As a matter of fact, the foreign reserve that Nigeria has are not owned by the Federation of

Nigeria. They are owned by the Central Bank of Nigera. At least eighty percent of that money is owned by the Central Bank of niger The Central Bank of Nigeria is not the same as the Federal Government of Nigeria. So went in and used these powers for the executive you know, the're promising that was going to be president or vice president. So he was spending money as campaign

finance for the Buhari administration. That's what that's what was happening. He printed the dollar equivalent of what a printed borrowed and allowed the federal governments spent us overdraft. What's fifty billion United States dollars five zero fifty billion? We printed? I did over draft of more than our revenues. Can you imagine that you go to a bank and you are borrowing more than your revenues. So

may lets set this up? That has allowed the lawmakers come in and say we want to regulate your guys, because he didn't take his independence with the you know, with with the what's the word now, he didn't respect his own independence, so they've come. But the point is that the cure cannot be worse than the disease if you give this to lawmakers to spend. Don't imagine poor, their important suv and we want to give the power to set interest rates. What do you think will happen? So you are right?

I mean on paper, he should be independent. That's why I want a strong central bank governor. The guy that is here now, mister sent Now he has talked the talk, he's seemed to walk in the walk. I think should let him do his job. Why now bring the minister to come and run the CBIA. This even is one of the one of the nature that has has performed his duties under this administration. They have done their duties on them, John credibly. Why why change in winning team? Why change

what is working? That's my take. You I need you have a comeback on that. I agree with you that it looks funny, you see, sorry that I have to do it follow up and that oh sure, let's let's forget about it. Initially and okay, from the time of a passenger, it seems that the only central bank central bank governor we've had in this country that was allowed to function as a central bank governor was saluted during his

time. Because even if we look back at what happened during the good Luck J. Nathan administration, I'm meant to believe that this central bank receives money and keeps our essays account. You can remember that Saluci, the middle Saluci, the then central bank governor, sent a letter to the president which he failed to act upon. Then the letter was made. He now wrote a public letter saying that the n NPC are not limiting or that they've not limited

so so so as so amount of money. That time people rallied around the president on them. In Saluci, that was the beginning of the impunity we have in n NPC today because we swept that under the capet, which now encouraged the next administration that they can go on and do whatever they like. And now I think they should be to put more pressure on the government. What about have the right leadership. It's not just started it. Somebody says

a precedence that this man followed. And if you look at the man that is there now, he is not as much see the authority there. He's trying to push this thing. There is no response from the executive that manages the physical site. Okay, so I hear at the end of the day, the road that we have in learn NPC today is still as a result of the fact that the man who was in charge of managing our ESSX account complained. And I remember when people were encouraged to save and they refuse.

God's refused. We have to put I think the executives to do. I hear you just for listening. Let me try to explain what happened with and good luck it wasn't maybe it look at what happened. Sanci was the banker of the Federation's Central Bank banker in the past in the in those days, when the NNPC sells crude oil, it goes to the account in JP Morgan. That account in GP Morgan is owned by Nigeria, is owned by the central Bank. The NNPC their account JP Morgan. Now what was going on

was that in Nigeria was paying subsidy. The NNPC was paying subsidy from that account. So Sanoci was trying to spark a conversation to to to say what is happening right now, to say that listen, I need to get the revenues in dollars to my account first before you can pay subsidy. And he's correct, the revenue should hit the account first then should pay subsidy. What was going on was that the revenues were being paid directly. NNPC was doing, Okay, we'll do NETS, will give you oil, you give us

PMS, blah blah blah. So that's what that's what that was target. But when he starts he said money he said, he said money was missing. That was where maybe I think he went wrong. Instead of saying, oh, I want this money to be accountable, to come to my he said the money was missing. The money was not missing, but it wasn't being remitted to his account. So he then saw the phrener goakeman said no, the money's not missing. This is where the money is. It's not

being cooncised. So it costs a big fight. Eventually sten still left the office. What is going on? So that didn't cost the NNPC. What is happening then was remediances between NNPC and CYBAN. What is happening now is that the Ministry of Finance, which is an executive arms being, actually take over the monetary policy of the central bank. The central bank is one that sets interest rates in the economy. If that would happen, there will be

a disconnect. It's like there will be a disconnect. The Ministure of Finance will not raise interest rates as aggressively as the Central Bank of Nieturia. So they going to finance the deficit of the federal government by keeping rates the same or lower. The reason why central banks are independent because they punish you when you spend more money. They punish you by raising rates. That's what they

do. So if you take away that power from from the from the from the quote and quote independent CBN, and you give it to a minister, why would the minister in the same party, in the same government raise interest rates for the same party, for the same government. You see what I'm going to change you. Let me get sat I mentioned a hang in there. Let's just get SAX to click. I can come back to you. I see I see your handle. Hello, thank you. I want to

pick play, get edification or something. It may be a bit out of flying. I want to understand something. But the CBN increasing interest rates. I need to understand that if the increasing interest rate is to more put more pop cash from the economy, and at the same time the CBN is increasing interest to move cast from the economy, then the presidency of the executive they're also in that conditional cash transfer is not in the situation of THRONI around circle

smoking of money. The executive you are putting money back into it. Yeah, I want to get education now. I mean it's a great question to get clarificational, because the what's your best bus saying is that they are too competing objective of the same government, you know, like the CBN is not the executive more or less if we were to run it the way it's supposed to be run on paper, the central bank is monitor policy. The Ministry

of Finance can be physcal policy. Right, It is the ministry of finance the executive that is pursuing all those cash dispersements through money cash model of stuff. That's spending, human interior ministry, building roads. That's all stimulative spending. Right, What are you collittimilative or not that spending. The job of the central bank is to say how how much money is in circulation? Can this money's circulation cause there to be a rise in general price leading to inflation?

That's their job. So what they do, if you really what they do is that when they see the economy getting heated up, they increase interest rates, and the economy is going to a recession, they reduce interest rates. So they're sort of balancing the cash flow in the economy to ensure the contomy does not overheat or stall and fall into a recession. That's what the

central Bank does. The point is, and again in for Nigeria's case, let's not forget the ways and Means has been turned into an emergency stop gap before you pass your budget into a means of financing for the federal government. So if you take the ways and means and the munshial policy rates away from the Central Bank to the ministry, it's like you say, your treasurer,

you have an association that you belong to. Now you say your president is going to be president, he's going to be treasurer, he's going to be spender, he's going to be auditor. One person. Where's the check and balance? So the ministry will say want to spend ten billion, Then the ministry will go and approve ways and means for the government that it serves the

same ministry. Where's the checking the balance? This is the point. This is why we're saying it's a dangerous proposition because what they want to do today is to say they are going to spend. There is no tax revenues. Now look at the numbers. They look at the budget numbers, there's no the tax revenues are not coming in any ls is asking for increasing minimum wage. Where's the money going to come from? Our revenue come from crude roil

sales. We are not even meeting upper quarter. We're at one point four one point five. Opener quarter is one point five. Budget is one point seven. So forgetting when budget, well not we met uper quarter, where will they get wing to pay an NLC. They're going to print borrow from Nigeria's and abroad, but they can't do that because the laws already says that you cannot borrow more from ways and means and also you cannot print more. They have about these DMO laws. So what they are trying to do is

to set the stage. If they take MUNCH policy away from the Sybyen, then the Ministry Misture of Finance simply say, oh yeah, you can go ahead and borrow three years. We want to clear on that you can go ahead and borrow to pay wages. So when you're going to be borrowing legally to pay salaries, which your same now that you are holding, sir. So you can see the dynamite coming down the Hill and if you don't stop these guys now they will pass it and it puts that to complaine. Oh,

we didn't know about this. This is dangerous again. We've done this in the past before the military in nine ninety seven took away this power of montre policy from the sybyan and give to the misture of finance. It was pressure that may them take it back you need. I'm not going to talk about the intentional sanctions. Imagine what will happen when other central banks fin out

that it's not a central bank that sets munche policy in Nigeria. How then do they How then do we explain to the IMF and and all that that, oh, it's a minister or is in buiauc at somewhere there's appointed by the president that sets muntropoltery. It doesn't make any sense. And by the way, I'm looking at the budget website. The report, the implanation report is no longer available and if anyone can check this is normally where I get

my information from. The quarterly inflational report is offline. I don't know if it's on purpose or if it does that it maybe it's offline, but the site is up but the report for twenty three, twenty three, we're not going to four. It's offline now, so SAT, did you have any come back on your expression? No, yeah, moky, excellent, excellent, excellent, Thank thanks Victor, what's Victor? Thanks k Thanks to the

opportunity to speak. It's a weird one because I don't know. I know there are countries maybe see small island missions that don't have central bands, but I don't know to the best of my knowledge, I don't ignorance that the central bank is not independent resavely the rules you mentioned implementation monitary policy to insue controlling currency, I don't know of any so I don't know where this idea

is coming from. Man well, I thought it makes sense because it doesn't and the financial world is like a system, and when such things come up perception it's negative and I can't every other thing, so it doesn't make sense to that. I think I like to learn if there's any courage you know central bank is not independent? No, this is a good idea. I don't know. Remember what I said, right? The concept of central banking is rather than new. I think it came either from the First World War

or the Second World war. I think the First World War nineteen fourteen or so, that's when we had central banks because of hyper inflation in Germany. And the rest of the thinking was that because we're not control hyper inflation, that led to Hitler, that led to the war. So that's the whole idea of that. You have to have someone that is managing central banking all across the world. The key sole function for central banks is managing price stability,

i inflation. Only America has full employment as an addition to what the central bank does. Even the Bank of England used to be a private bank. Then they got the past to manage the exchange inflation rates in that country as well. Someone told me, and I can't verify this, some one told misses rumor, so again I'm caveating rumor that they went to mister let me use they went to the guy in child of banking and they told the guy they want to reduce MPR so they can borrow The guy told them no,

that's why they're going to the Mixture of Finance to do it. That's what someone told me offline. I can't confirm that, but the whole idea, I mean, it's a very very simple thing. Look at the center the pharagram Nigeria borrowing in June twenty fifteen, do you know how much ways?

That means? Borrowings were six hundred and forty eight billion. So when good Lord jount And handed over power to Buhari, the total amount of money that the federal government had borrowed from the Central Bank of Nigeria as at June twenty fifteen was six hundred and forty eight billion. Six forty eight billion, that's what maybe customs can claim one quarter or whatever. Now when Bury left office, twenty three children are outstanding, so maybe they printed about twenty two

or twenty one trillion in ira. This was with the CBN and all that too. That was even quote unquote independent with a board. What will happen if you appoint a committee or board that's answers to the mistery of finance? Will I mean, this is crazy, This is scary to me. And if that happens, our advice people just go and hold the defend currency. I'll say it right here, Just go and hold the defend currency because there's going to be massive borrowing and pressure on the nira. If you want to

make naira strong. You've got to a sports but you've also got to spend properly. You've got to spend properly. You simply can't say, oh, we're going to tax our way to pay NLC. It's not going to work. The economy has not expanded, so NLC things a different matter entirely. I'm not sure where they want to get going to pay NLC. If you think you're going to tax people that are not having jobs, in groups that do not have a means to create wealth to pay for NLC, it's not

gonna happen. And I think they know this already. To the are certain stage to increase spending vere allow with the MPERT, that's the where it is, or to fall if interestings go up MPR that's the tetal argument has got to go up. Although I will say it's not caused by monetary policy, but still it's not a good idea. I've got a non man mediating how you don't have to read your name long. You guys have to have shorter names. How are you doing, sir? Please go ahead, Your honey's

up. You've got to flow well, believe me in everyone, Well, my opinion is pretty short because I'm gonna here for too long. So on the topic, does Nandreia need an independent central bank? We do not. And I say this because the way finance is usually operated in the country, it tends to fall into should I see the wrong places every other time that it tends it's meant to be shared or something. So in knowing that, how then do we even end up with the top process that stays? Okay,

we are trying to make this central band that is our one. Should I see leading financial institution independent? You can't do that. It's already independence right now. It's independent right now, it is independent right now. Yes, then it caused a problem that we just say, okay, its problem, all right, appreciate that, sir. I appreciate that. Thanks for happening. Yeah, I mean it's right now. It's independent by law, by statute and all that. By action. Maybe not by action because of

what the past central bank governor did. But the proposal now is to make it none independent, to make i e. The unchro policy part. So that means maybe they only do exchange rates, maybe the central bank will only be chasing BDCs and all that, which doesn't make sense to me. But that's where they are going to with these proposals. Yeah hmm interesting, okay, cool, thanks for happening. Appreciate that, sir. All right, I've got McDonald's. What's in your mind? Then I go back to d

MS. Let me go back to the McDonald you've got the floor. Let me and I'll go back to DMS real quick. McDonald's. Yeah, go ahead. I can't I agree to you. How are you doing, sir? I agree to yeah, go ahead, McDonald's. You got the floor topic? Can you have me? Yes? Yes, I was expending something different today, even though from your foot during the week, I was expecting

the rumors like around anyway. But the topic is still not bad. I don't have much knowledge on there and the financial but I can make one or two contributions. The problem with you that is not really about depend Then your orders cutting in announced, mister McDonald's. I'm not sure where you are your orders caut and out they getting the for your audio? Can you fix that? Audience comrade back? Yes, sir, no, fix the audience comrade

back, so just fix it the coment back. Let me get you tell me here, I mean now, yes, please go ahead, off the head phone. Okay, go ahead, now I was I would going to say that uh, Nigeria. The problem with us it is not really about whether we are dependent or independent, whether the institution is dependent or independent. The problem is we're having a problem of leadership. Okay, because even elective positions quote unquote and UH are not really independent on on as pat say.

You may be on the paper, you may say they are independent, but they are not. Not to talk of the talk more of appointed position. Who appoints, who gives the job? Also who gave him his job. I mean, let's face, let's the fact here Samucy who gave who gave him the job? So lut who gave him the job? All this men are all appointed by the dexecutive man even though they are the the the legislator

screened them. But I mean, you know what letters are if not Roberts stamp, I mean the I just I just in a in a bunch of circles that you can't understand. I mean, if if they can you get me, yes, if they if we have good leadership, if we though they are not dependent or independent, both of them would segnage very well and move the country forward. Let me tell you something kad also himself that you said he is independent when he put one policy of whether I did they one

on tax taxing of transaction bank transactions. It was in the news he said that the that the wary government, telical government has withdrawn the policy. Is it the government that made the policy or the central government? It was it was Table's government that introduced it and and they removed it. So it was yeah, So it wasn't It wasn't a CBN policy. You can't see the

confusion here. It's not independent. No, there's no confusion. The bank the banks and asks banks to implement the secular but it was not a ciby

and secular perth. Okay, okay, good if if the if the exequities are honest to themselves, whether the whether the central bank guy is independent, I mean they can team up and give us something good that would move this country forward, like if you go to advanced countries, like you guys, whether the independent or not independent I mean the other the other August that mass the essenis of each other, not really who is independent or who is not

independent? See the planning. He had to capture the whole the states. That's what they are trying to do. They want to They want to I mean quickly eroad the real I mean they need to independence. We can see on paper, you understand. They want to gradually erode you so that maybe if something gets maybe to the court, it to be roaded because there's nothing

there, you know, because they can see what happened with Fily. And even though the nobody wants to prove that aspect, you understand, they want to now gradually remove that close on paper, so that in case tomorrow somebody comes in and sees a whole lot of mess, the person cannot actually indicet

the executive map because powers was already given to him, you understand. So inasmuch as we say that this is not a good move, but the mood is that even if they in some countries where they don't have central bank whatever, you can see that there the executive are still doing the thing well, and they're moving the country. The grouping our country is we're struggling with our leadership. That's just our problem here. I hear you, I completely hear

you. I hear you. I mean the point is again it you know again, we can't kill we can't do two wrongs to make it right. How that phrase they use a methilet messed up? Yes, we get there, But we can't allow a ministry or an appointee of the federal government to set monetary policy. That's just where I'm going to with this. It's it'd

be worse whatever Methilid did. This is going to be on steroids. You can't allow that because again, deep inside presenting Nobles Hope campaign promises a code that says they're going to decouple the benchmark that connects oil benchmarking and budgets. Now you are saying you want to move the monitary policy rate from the CBN to the ministry. What this is telling me is that somebody is going to spend a huge amount of money soon. I want cover to do that.

So I'm not comfortable with that, Afreable or what's your take, Afreble, You've got the floors, uph please go ahead, Chea, do your hand is up? What's up? Okay? Yeah? Well, this is the thing. I believe that your intention of creating these spaces to educate people and what is going to happen to our economy if we allow these people to go ahead with this? And this is a very good move because there's something I've learned from our reliance from this government. They will just talk about one thing

and look at how people react to it. If you find out that people are not really talking about it or they're not reacting negatively because people can only react properly to things that they understand. Now, there is need. There is need for people to know that this is calamity that is grewing and this government seems not okay. The biggest problem we have with this government is that on the physical side, we don't have economic things. After one year in

office, they've not given any economic policy for us to run with. You think when we talk about the donner problems and the whole lot of other things is lack of trust in this government. I continue to tell people that see doing The other government thinks we are bad, but Nigerian's we are. You kind of trusting the government people. We are still bringing in money from the diaspora to invest, but this government, their body language is carrying people away.

People are no longer the aspora remittancy has dropped because people don't trust this system. Coupled with the fact that the legitimacy of the government and power currently is questionable, and then you see all these things are beginning to cause trouble. Inflation has never been this bad in democratic dispensation in Niger. And when you see people reporting, I see that's thirty percent, forty percent. That

is not true. When we margin it with the price you have at the market, how is tumato moving from forty thousand to one hundred and fifty forty percent? That is not true. So this issue is that has to keep on talking about this and then keep on pushing this government to set up an

economic committee. We have the National Economic Council. I've been I've been talking about the fact that if the Vice President will continue to head that National Economic Council, then we have to revisit our constitution make it mandatory that anybody that will be a vice president almost be from economic background. So I think it's if not we tink it away entirely from these people and constitute a committee or a council that will handle distant long term I just I just think it's just

for coordination, because the VP is like an executive. He just coordinates, you know, Article was the first guy. There is just a coordination thing right now. The president has created a presidential economicy in which he is managing. Then he created an economic tax force with somebody else's managing. He's not there. Then he appointed the powers, That's what I'm saying. So even appointed a new committee. He's not there, but that committee's job is to

implement the economic plan. That's the ee T. So the president came, we already have an economic management team. He created a new Presidential Advisory Committee. Then he created a new tax force. He is not a tax force, but the tax force job is to implement. So what's the manket team doing, what's the economic team doing? What's this new tax force doing? Why do you have a tax force? Duplication is just to say we're doing work, Just to say hey we are doing something, we're only doing anything.

I don't think it matters if you're an economist. As a VP, he has access to resources, he can coordinate, he has potential power, so you can you can tell hey Sex do this, Hey mister of do this. That's usually why he's there. But the president, in my view, should be the head of their on the Mike team, not the VP. What them can be there if it's not. If you're not an economy. What are you doing? Are you doing? What if you're not in the economy. Your job is the economy as the president? What else?

Now? All right, let me get mayor of Mayor of ra Mayor of Rafia City. Isn't in the Middle East? Mayor? Are you from Nigeria? Mayor of Rafia City? Aftery book and we'll come back to you. So you can you speak now? Afroble Ale? Going once? Going to Victor. Your hand is up. What's what's your mind? So Victor? Yes, I can hear you. Victor who got a proable on the floor.

Victor afterble can you speak? Yeah? Go ahead. That's a quick comment because I think I think his name was Donald McDonald, remember on the kind of the great lines between the CB and governor and the executive and made some good points and the end of the day, the Sybian governor is appointed by its activity, and that in Agia definitely is the line is are blurred.

But even if we're to accommodated for that, it's still important to keep, if not the parents when you're looking at and searching foreign investments and market perception of Nigeria because it has to be seen generally speaking, we don't have it. In Nigeria, you have the stability and long term economic planning,

and central Bank is very important to that goal. But if we are looking at just keeping at least on paper legally and giving hope that things can get batter, things can change for the future regarding economic planning, central black policy, that you can have long term central black policy that is going toward to

go. It's still important even if the lines are blurred in Nigia, is still important to keep it that way because once that once, once we cross that line, sure as you, I don't think it will be something we can walk back very easily. True. True, yeah, that point, I mean it's a great point. I know. If it's a great point. I'm just worried about. Once you do this at the federal level, know what's going to happen in the state. Then so the governor will simply

say, oh, in that case he's accountent general. The governor just make himself a compent in general. So all facult comes to governor's office, then governor will spend fac and governor audit fact. Because if you've killed the checks and balances suppressional powers that involved physical spending, that's what we're going to do. Why should the ministry be the one to set one trip policy in an

economy? I mean, why why do we have central banks in the first but one of those scrap central bank and make it on make Ministry of banking and then appointed that's missed off the bank or whatever. Why do we have a central bank that's the application? Their core job is one trip policy. And once the politicians start to go there, then you don't want to know what's going to happen four years. These guys are there for four years,

maybe eight. So if you say you are going to give them the power to spend for four years, of course they're going to spend one hundred years in four years to win an election. They don't care the next eight years they are gone. Someone that's going to start the mess up. But how is pretty and he's gone is in Dawra. His mess is now being cleaned up by a new president because he had the power to spend. Necesarily let him spend. Go ahead, sir, no, I just added to it.

But you effectively eradicate any long term economic pandic. True, because you have a four year cycle. They have no interest in building an economy long term, there's no incentiveship. You make it, you give yourself the best case scenario, basically making money available. That's what politicians did. They will spend as much as the law allows them. They already do. They've reready done that when they broke the law to do that and nothing has happened.

Yeah, just so now you make it law. You may you even make it. You say three x revenue or whatever that's going to be confirmed. There's no disguise limits for them. And that's that public after. That's the most that's the most dangerous part for me. Even the mantre policy one you can sleep and wake up with that, but that three X is for me more dangerous to say that in Nigerian federal government can borrow is it ten percent

of three x? That's dangerous. So if we raised two trillion, they can borrow six hundred just like that with just by a stroke of a pen. They just borrow that money. No repayment, no stability, no ability to pay guide, there's nothing. It's and people are maybe wesa if you're going back and if you're going by historically, there's no reason why they stand by that three x. Why not five x. And the bigger issue even if you were to say let's try it, you know, because independence that

we have hasn't worked. We know we can. We can infer worll like they happened, and once the politicians realize, okay, this is very bad. It's too late. Yeah, I mean again, it's not something it's not something that can be it can we can? This is not like you're kind of walking back what happened between one trillion and then repacking it, repackaging

as a bond that was being paid and interested. That is almost that is the best case scenario from what has happened that that that's not going to happen again. We can't do it twice. The point is that you know right now, the fort the forty, the forty billions, how much have we now raised in federal in special bonds to cover a meth LA's printing? It's there? Will you and I? Anyone holding a NIRA is going to pave

that back. And myth is not going to pay back a couble, no matter the nonsense is saying it's not going to put back a cob But Harry is not going to pay back a coble d m I the guys that should oversee spend the not going to put back a couble. It's a Nigerian population that's going to pay back those bonds with those high interest rates. I was trying to pull up the bond to a defederal government's budget report to show how much we were paying per quarter on loans to the Central Bank of Nigeria.

The last time I looked, it was nearly one trillion that the Nigerian Federation was paying to the Central Bank of Nigeria for open obligations i e. Before they passed those bonds, a trillion a quarter how much as to asking for So the country is just upside down. You just borrow print money and then you just you leave. You don't look at the president and we pick up the tab. So people have to pay attention. I don't know how to

make it sound very very simple. For food, on the stand, the nearer you hold in your hand only has got value because it has reserves or it has productivity back in it. If you allow a government official to pray at will without that night I've been backed up by productivity or revenues or growth, it will become worthless. So all your savings, stock market bonds, everything will become worthless because a few politicians want to buy important subs. It's

as simple as that. We're screaming it now. We screamed about this. Ways that means in twenty twenty two no one listened. This I hope does not happen. And I know sometimes when you make a lot of noise, the presidency seem to hear and they seem to review before they take action. I hope there is one time where they will pull back and say we can't do this. We need to know what's happening before they allow the narrow to

just become worthless. This would make spending go through the roof, especially when we're not getting moneys coming in as well. Just my take on that. Appreciate that, afyable appreciate that times. I almost in a while, sir, thanks for happening. And again, yeah, Victor, you are going to say something is Victor, Yeah, thank you for me. I think

the economic team, if I myself, I think they're working hard. They're working through around the clock, and it's just unfortunately they have an impossible job. The CB and governor with his interventional order, we saw how that affected the currency, the service exchange rate. But it was just short lived because at the cross of the matter, we have the spending problem, we have a revenue problem. We're spending more that we're ending and we're not ending enough.

That's that's just the croux of the matters. I think the whole idea of giving handing over the independence of recipient the finance minister just so Cannada fishing, Okay, let's try the governor has tried. Let's try this and see if it's work. But if we don't adverse the root course of crude because of the matter how much we spend and our ability to end visa recructor having

security farmers come firm, it just banned into the problem. And two weeks from now, three months from now, we also there also be another brilliance, good and a good idea, the in fluted of how to improve my genan sequidity. So I think thats a cross off the match act. Like everyople is saying, why stop at three times? If they're you know, if they passed this in and it goes through, why can't they come next year and say fifty percent of ten years revenues? What stopped from from doing

that. So it's essentially you don't have a ministry of finance that has the ability to print whatever it likes. Then why would you hold naira? Why would any insane person hold naira when it can be printed? What was Iday doing? What? What was what was the Germans after World War? What were they doing? Why would you hold naira? If tonk and just printed no guardrails? Well, we're skating on bed based in ice, and I

don't think they understand the import of what they are saying. Just the news alone, The news alone is bad, even this cost, this is bad. And if you keep quiet, these guy's passes them. It's only when you put pressure and you explain to people what they want to do they want step back. If you keep quite, the passes nonsense. No information, sir, what's your on your what's your take on this? No information provided by the development doesn't have to be that long. I don't I believe it

in everyone believe in what's happening. Okay, say a good day for me. So on this particular issue, I just I just want to ask a question. Besides that, it's totally insane from the principle perspace central should be independent. We've been in a situation since since last year where only the central bank has been doing anything substantial to to help the economic the inflation and everything they've done, they use almost every school they can in your standards, central

Bank to kids and the finance. The physical side has not come through with any policy, any move that makes any sense, that helps at all. So who is the rives my things? It's a good idea to now hand over this control to the physical side. It's as if the Milisa of Finance is on holiday in Nigeria right now. The last thing is impact in the economy. We are not Could you could just go on holiday and want to hand that over to the Minister of Finances? Just does he make sense?

You mean you mean you mean the cognative Minister of the economy. I don't see him, I don't hear from him. I don't feel his impact. I see the CBN guy trying to make an impact. The Minister of Finance guy, I see him a World Bank. I am a photo ops. I've not seen him take action. He controls the customs. Lots of allegations of corruptions. I guess the custom I don't seen him saying anything there, he controls this nonsense that are charging fourteen hundred fifteen hundred, I said extregity

for the customs. I don't see him intervening there. He seems to be lost, so he doesn't know what he's doing. He's a guy that knows he's been in the legals financial scene for millennias. He knows where the bones are buried. He knows what to do, so why is not doing anything? The reason why with celebrity was because he said, this is the guy

that understands the Nigerian financial sector. He can go abroad, make the case to the friend niversity and citizen Niner's going to change this is all those were person Let's get FDI in here. But it's the f the CBN that seems to be the driving seat of all this. What has he done? What is he doing? That's the mister f contim mister what's it coordinating? Mister?

I'll just say this last that if this passes, I will liquidit all my investments, all my neglihoodings to just the minimum I need to survive. I'll go hold and see a faith Frank and the dollar and find my way out of this country. Well that's your your take on the matter, olimited, what's your what how are you doing? So welcome Olimena. What's happening. It's been a while conversation, Yeah, Olympic just your can you hit your audio up just a bit? Okay, very well, yeah, go

ahead, sir. Yeah, So that's an interesting conversation. So, first of all, I don't know understand why they brought up that excuse. And surprisingly you look at the banking commit send me is headed by before a funk MD that has the experience. So I try to look at the excuse and reports actually it wasn't amplified as to be a better parted. But this didn't make a lot of sense to me because you look at the board of the

CIBN. We have the Parment and Secretary of instructing us, we have the sec we have other discuss even on that, so one begins to wonder what

was were it looking like the American context of the Economic Council. And also you look at the problem we have been the fact that there's no clear court policy just that I can listen to those because and what we said, the truth of the matter is that till as we speak it's very difficult for me to explain to you what while they are doing policy for the past way is

and that's very very bad. So while you are shown that he's looking at we also report from it that said that, like you have collect the ethics probably as to foreign liance, bitch and move those from when you look at our deputies, when you look at governs spending, and you know, the

argument has always been lack of inconstant. So I have personalize that the CPN and independent CPN is very very necessary despite the errors of the PHI League, but the items in science there I tell everybody that wants to see that the CPN is still the most functional now and departments and the government since I've been covering, and and that's why oftentimes I try to let people understand that,

see, we need to encourage these guys. You won't have issue because if that pitution gets it wrong, we are all the serious problem because look at what we discussed as a dream. Because really, thank you, thanks Lumidia. I mean that's a good, good point you're raising that, you know, good point, good, good point. Just let me read a few DMS for you and maybe illuminate every element a few dams for you. Someone

says, what happens to the eurobond investment? I have some exposure to eurobond, so my own take the eurobond is directly linked to dollar innings because we are borrowing in dollars and we're paying back in dollars. We don't print dollars. So the point is that your eurobonds have a direct correlation to the n NPC oil output. You should start to get worried with eurobonds. We should be worried now if the oil output does not increase right now. This event

has bort about a billion right to float to to defend an era. We are going to pay back next year a billion in principal to the eurobond. This is my not our usual dollar borrowings dollar exploser that we have, So I would say for now, for now, the eurobones may be safe because it's the dollar exposure. But the overall issue with Nigeria is the liquidity that is not coming in. We are not getting as much liquidity in dollars that

we should have loved. If you compare remittances in the past to today is down. If you compare oil sales in the past to today, is down. If you compare FDI to the past till today is down. So those three big headers are all suffering. FPI's foreign portfolio investment has gone up, but it has gone up because we are borrowing at twenty percent very very high interest rate. So net net, we will get the dollars in, but at what costs. So for eurobonds, I would say for now you might

be said they were prioritized europe bond before they prioritized Nigerian bonds. That's just the truth. They will do that. So if you are there, I think you're kind of safe oloving they do you agree? Do you have account

of you? Yeah? I think I have because my major concern is the minimum which the very past editing able to see summaries to be high because just like you said, look at the amount of everything that comes you look at the CB and data and a five percent sorry ninety percent went to tap services most of our services and you don't be any qualtruy where the optivity is not to be resident. So with inclation looking at coats, that's that level coming

to play. I think I think I do think it's that and that's why I'm really very agree with this disc outside particually the presidents he has handed the optics. Sure that you have a lot of people, don't you where you tell people that you're stors are heading since we go right and you know it makes it just like you said, because where is this money coming from that you have all the outputs. Look at just paid for one point five not

even kids press that number. Saudi is going to nineten just by the fact that they are tripping costs. So because where do you want to get to do that for? So I think some peoples will get if you don't sit that's bye. The fact that you could say the pavents are in there because that amount of civil service course getting that amount of money, I don't see the real could win your pains your revenue. That's one personal and I think

we pers. I think your peers are cooling. And the reason why it looks like it's interesting that you're are gonna us to it are also looking at being less aggressive so that you are as the batter. But you sally that reason. I don't see who can keep me wanting The researchers are just hoping. It looks you can see that the payments look away at pace back against that is the particular look at the amount of impayments in Psibal. You know,

a lot of people not talking about all the things. So some banks are surviving because of the girls. And you know, as we also need to look at the trusted of the economy. We cannot afford to live a good life. Let's pace right, we need to concur And that's why I'm really against the governments taking that pass. Gotcha. And the second point someone's asking about, just again before you go ahead, NLC is asking for four hundred thousands. You are saying two hundred thousand is red flag for you.

Waste the money four hundred thousand. I don't see where the government of today gets money from the subsidiary removal. They remove our subtly created revenues for the government. I assume that was the revenue that are going to use to pay this new salary increase. But the money for the first year was kept in a special fund for infrastructure. Currently, as we stand right now, right now about it, forty or fifty percent of the total revenues of the federal

government goes to pay salaries alone. This is not pensions. It is just salaries alone of only civil service workers. If you add pensions service wide votes allow one says you are looking anywhere from sixty percent. Now, I have not talked about debt repayment on this revenue, on this recurrent revenues. If you add debt repayment, it's one hundred It's more than one hundred percent. Witness that when Nigeria sales cruld oil, our total revenues, it's not enough

to pay debt, pay subsidy and pay salary. It's not enough. They were increasing the salaries, not buy a little, to buy much, nearly doubling it. Where is the money gonna come from? Even if we increase V eighty by fifty percent, Where is this extra new money gonna come from to pay NLC? Do you have any idea? What do I think?

It's worse than where is time? Because if you look at the real cost of a little of petrol now and you speak to different when I will tell you that between one and one and one, I look at the price I almost wanted. Now the person is where is that money? So you're not really saving money car? And also look at the look at the the FX market for example, look at the export talked about the most people, and I cannot be moving like a may be confers. The group of conet that

wein to pretate is constable for importers and those that have business explosion. We're seeing it hit hard on the edge of companies. And you know the fact that also we're seeing exodos of foreign most nationals because of row materials costom being business and insecurity that also stutters. So I think for me, you know, like it's the socials are simple. The government just wants to first of all goal. First of all, we need to train the number of aids

by these long fifty fifty ministers that I used to friscal responsibility. That's good. As for ourselves. Look at the impact from the past more years. So far we cannot mention more than five winister and even those five ministers have just start there. Both average imputing preasure rate has really educated many that you are saving. Just like you said, where do you once to add to

zeros? It's four point nine trillion if you take the what Libor is asking for, they're asking for four point nine trillion in addition four point nine trillion. I mean, I know this fragments the spend trift. I get that, But for crying out loud, where we're going to get four point nine trillion from? I mean, we've not grown the economy. That's this situation we find ourselves. We've not grown the economy. We've relied on FPI's instead

of fdiyes. We are an important nation, I cannot pay for it's import where important pms essentially where our education and health is being exported out through invisible trade. That's where we found ourselves now. And now this SEME economy that imports everything is supposed to generate brand new four point nine trillion just to pay workers. Well, this is just goverment workers, This is not private to the workers. How many SMS can pay for Just think about it. If

an SME guide today, think about yourself. You are a guy that you make soup or you make a popcorn. You're an SME company. The government is saying, or the NLC is saying, that you should pay your walker four hundred and ninety four thousand naira a month. How much do you you, the owner of the business, make this you as an SME. So it's a joke and the sad thing that the NLC is right that the salaries have to go up, but I'm making a false argument. There is no

way in hell Nigeria is gonna pay anybody for ninety four times. We just can't afford it. But the NLC is correct, salaries have got to go up. So in between that these two things, there's a conversation around how can we reduce the size of the government and increase the ded Weald curching covers of Nigeria Because don't seew they're gonna get out of this in there, didn't thin they're announced as wage increased, they're going to crash the economy real quick.

I did it only be hanging there as usual where I preached your comments the like the like, you've got the floors, I've go ahead, all right, Calum, thank you very much. I won't say that the space has been very interesting and educative. And see a lot of you guys I've been speaking has a lot of background in finance and economics. So but for me, what I want to ask and I'd like to be educated, you

know, to see how we can have resolutions to this. I want to say that have we taken into constitution how most times government agencies somebody talking about a lot of corruption and customs. Have you taken time, has anybody done any serial studies on how government mismanaged funds and how a lot of these funds are actually stolen, you know, at this level at some of these government

agencies. At the time, I was previewed to do an investigation and I found that about ninety about eighty five percent of the money that was supposed to be government revenue was taken from the point you know that this money was coming in by individuals that work in government agencies. So how can you actually come up with datas to say, Okay, this is how much we work. I believe we are working with data that government is making available to us.

How real are these datas? How real are these things? You know when you have a couple of people taking a larger chunk of this money, you know in you know, from the very source. And that's why I believe we have not been able to address or we are saying we don't have capacity to do a lot of things. So I'm just saying to say that, how do you even look at government procurement If you want to buy a laptop of a particular ring that you know the average price is let's say two hundred

thousand. Are government will procure that same laptop for aver two millionaire. We'll look into all these things to actually see how wealthy nation is, to actually see how much money you are making. And I don't know too much of economics, but I work in government. But these are the realities. These are what I see in government. Of it that saying, I see government pastartus and for other colleagues, you know, people that are working on this

is the same. It is almost similar story where you have people take it as government help up make public how they do their procurement processes. I'll tell you that, okay, this is what we procure the year. You know where people make procurement, you know, and their procurement is able to even buy. If we tell you what they use making dream procurement in a year,

you will be shocked. So I don't know how I'm just saying that I don't know how much and how far this affects all these minimum wasting and what we end, I mean, what we have in I don't know. I would I put this now to say this is actually what we have as a country. This is our reserves this is our more to make the country. I just want you guys to please educate me on that because I work for the government. Yeah, and this is what I see that happens in

the government setting all the time. I think you, I think you know the answer already. You know, why do you think we have a due process? We have a Bureau of a Public Procurement and we have madam due process. When all those things were occurring before and the process was a circus. We try to clean it up by saying there's a due process. Is how you bid? This, how you win? This is how you advertise for public tender. I don't think those things are working. There's a veryy

easy way you can fix this. And are you all right? The government expensive shows are expensive, costly and are fraught with corruption. The way you can winn this is to say, let the government publishes what it wants to buy. We want to buy highest busses, and simply say, if you can give us a way to this costs by ten percent, we'll give you one percent of the savings as cash. Just probabished on a website and say

this is what the government wants to spend. Anyone that can ensure us how we can reduce his spending by ten percent, will give you one percent of the savings, and you will see people will give you a lot of ideas. But it's all should we say it's all on purpose? Like you know, this is corruption. You people want to buy a higher's boss. They boss costs more by when the government buys it than when you walk into the parking lot to buy people you want to buy books, why not buying bulk?

They don't They go and buy a house from a sua seller. And I'm being serious here. We see sr sellers are getting contract to supplying things to the government. A restaurant, a restaurant gets a contract to supply government goods. The press calls out the restaurant. The press guys arrested, jailled for calling out a restaurant attached to a very very high president. Government has been allowed to bid for government contracts. So it's a mess, and you

can fix it. It has to start from the top. If the top is cleaned, everybody takes direction. When was the process set up? You know, why isn't it still there? Why don't we hear of deepross anymore? While were buying jeeps and cars all over the place. When we've said we want to use local. Last space we had we talked about the local purchasing. The law in Nigeria says you cannot buy foreign cars and that if you buy foreign cars for the government, you should go to jail. It's

the it's in the law. I didn't say so, it's in the law, local content law. It's in the Executive Order O three first by the by the President of Nigeria. It's there. But still workers did its customs buying important toyotas. I don't like your hands up, go ahead, so thank you very much, you know for you know, for saying this. That's part of the that's one of the major problems. So most times, most of the data as you the analysts are working with, those datas are

not accurate. They can't even tell you what an average Nigerian and like. Now, if you look at the way and you're purchasing power has been taken completely away from the people and of course possing power of the people. I

also have a way of affecting the economy, of growing the economy. Even if you're saying the small medium skilled business person to run a business, somebody who will have the at least as it is now, they don't even have the purchasing power, you know, to even buy whatever service you know that is going to be rendered. So that's the biggest problem. That the datas and things we're working with most type is not accurate. I gave you a

very powerful example. I didn't. I did an investigation and I followed that eighty five percent. I was shocked. Eighty five percent of what was being made, you know, from the source I've been taken and this is not the one that was still going to the account. And some people who still some truth and fraudulent means take it away from you. Know. This is why I believe that I don't know whether we are a true answer to this.

Accept you are willing to fight for not really you know, the laws for you because the laws say that when you spend money, you must I think it's now it's it fifty percent that you must remit automatically to the federal government once you spend money. But they haven't done that. You know, we're trying to say that once you're a government's government owned enterprise or MDA, you must remit a setven percentage by default. Automatic to the feditional account.

How many MBAs are doing that, that's the point. That's where we are right now. So if they don't get revenues from the MDAs, then they have no money. They have to go back and borrow. And then when they are borrowing, it's crowding out the private sector. So interest rates already high. They are crowding on a private sector and they want the same private

celor to pay minimum wage of four ninety four thousand. Then in addition to that, they want to now set interest rates from the Mistry of Finance and also give Mystery of Finance their power to allow them to borrow. So you can see what's going on. They're not going to get the money through taxes, so they want to get the money through printing. They're going to just print the money and say we're borrowing base of last revenue. The levens are

going to keep on inflating because of inflation. So they borrow one now today. If takes that one now to one artenticable they borrow, or one artenticable intention takes it to one artisticable they borrow on one artisticable. No wealth is being created just borrowing on inflated based figures to then spend on the same non stimulative activities buying private jet fuel, buying casts for for letis that's so the economy is, the structure is completely off entirely and if you don't fix the

structure, nothing good good part of the economy. The economy structure is fundamentally flawed. Ken, what's in your mind? Ken? Do ty? Wow? Thank you? Thank you? In a while? Good thanks, That's one I've spoken well. But I'm not surprised with what is happening in the country because they said they were going to continue from where the the other government stopped, and you know, they're doing exactly that with regards to, you know, the the monetary side. I mean, I can't even imagine.

I can't even I'm surprised that we're even having this discussion of why why we should have an independent CPN And I don't even understand it. Why who came up with that idea to allow the Federal Ministry of Finance to determine what in see it's it's it's, it's, it's it's it's unbelievable. I can I mean, I've been reading some of the tweets from from from alumiday over during the week and I see, I see, I see where this is heading.

Obviously, we know when when you don't have that balance between the physical and monetary side, we know what will continue to happen to the currency and it's going to be the desprier in effect, it's it's it's to continue to boomerang on the pocket of the people and poverty would only continue to deepen the

discussion about the minimum ways. To be honest, we let's just trace it back because the truth of the matter is that there is so much injustice in Nigeria, so much injustice, and the people who are opposed to ensure that there's justice just look away. The first act that they carried out when they when they came into government was to sign this supplementary budget to tribunal to buy to buy vehicles to pay themselves as you know, welcome allowance. That was

the first thing they did. And then the next thing we had that the salaries of judges. Judges, not everybody working in the Ministry of Justice, trust the judges. Their salaries were increased without any rank or they didn't request for it. It was just increased like that. Just like that no rancor and if if we are going to be on the side of justice in terms of our minimum which todayclum our minimum, which should be around two hundred and

eighteen eighteen thousand, that's what should be. Let's see, we want to maintain where is the economy from thirty thousand, one hundred and fifty something exchange rate, if you convert that to day to the rates we have today the black market or rates or you want to use it in the same rate, we should be in that range two hundred and eighty. Another data that supported

that FEG is using Egypt as an example. Egypt is a country that is kind of similar to us in size, in terms of some of the problems we are having, they are facing the same kind of problems in terms of effects and that do they're inny better situation compared to words. But if you look at their minimum with they just increase their minimum with in March by fifty percent and in dollar terms that is coming to around one hundred and ninety four

dollars. So if you two hundred and ninety four dollars to day, it's to land you around to hundred and nineteen thousand. So a true, A true I was a minimum wage today for a and as for the lowest work kind n Injuria should be around eighteen thousand. But we know the government cannot

do that. But but but but but knowingly where that this government cannot do that, the first thing they should do coming into into government, if they know they are serials with the physical side, is to announce curt to their salaries and allowances first. That should be the first thing. Kenny I did it, Ghannad did it. These countries they did. They did the same

thing first and now announced. What that does is that that this signal is send to the to the private sector, is that we're in serials government. It sends the right message to do to the union and leaders that okay, where we want to ask for a minimum wage, we asked for something reasonable. The reason why these guys are asking for four hundred and sixty something today is they know that they are landing fro covered didn't want to get to should

be pitching into fifty and to more than eating. That is where they're targeting. But of course, going into the negotiation, you can review all your cards in terms of what you want to do and and and to be honest. Yes, they said he's going to grant the economy. But but we need to start. We need to put justice on the table. The government needs to put justice on the table. When when when when carrying out this

kind of this kind of nequisitions. And I mean what I mean, Ken, Ken, Ken, There is no way the minimum with Ninetia it's going to be two hundred thousand Ira. We're being honest here, No one's going to pay. Yes, I agree, I agree because forget forget government even one hundred thousands, forget government, forget government. Agree which SMI on which which? Who is a semi on this space that would pay his notice? Even your house girl is going to end one hundred kid, I agree with

you. So just look at it that way. When you bring it to your house gel level, it doesn't make sense to you. And it's because labor in Nigeria is cheap and unproductive. So I get that. You know, I'm talking in economic terms. Now. What needs to happen is not a minimum wage increase. For now one need to happen that they got the NLC and the government have got to pass an austerity budget. What we're doing now is that your son tells you, daddy, I need my school.

I want my allowance to become ten thousand and months. Your son is two years it's maybe ten years old. He wants ten thousands. You say, okay, you want to go out and borrow to give your son ten thousand. Wrong approach. What we need to do is to do an austerity budget. All spending in Nigeria for the next maybe twelve or twenty four months not tied to human capital. So it's not held education or anything tied to human

capital. You suspend it. Roads are good, roads are stimulative roads and investments, but you suspend any new project today when you suspend it, no import of cars for the government, no useless spending. Once you do that, what have you saved? You take that savings, you use that students to fund free services for the government, people and for Nigerian So you say, if you go to school, will give you a voucher. So you

take away school fees from the bills of Nigerians. If you go to school and bring your past years receipt, will pay when you are able to take away education, maybe even rent to say bring your rent, will give you a rent subsidy. If you remove those costs from Nigerians and you have an austeriety budget, then you focus on growing the economy. If you can grow the economy, then you can talk in twenty four months about minimum wage.

For now, what this is been a cell phone. If you make me the more wage, more than even forty key, nobody is going to pay that money. It will be on paper, nobody will pay it. I agree, I agree hundred percent. That's that should that should have been the first step. It is not too late. They can to do it. Then they can't go in. That was their direction. But you know the

lavish spenders. I saw the I saw the convoy of the president. All the each car there is worth to hal May millions, about four million something the convoy of the president, right, I mean yes, I guess it has to be secure as a protected but look at the convent of the president. They're telling you work as you don't have money. You know, look at the convolve of the lawmakers. Everyone is expend everyone is spending money. You can't tell workers you don't have money. That's where the gum has got

it wrong. I just wanted to look at the convoy of the speaker. For example, you cannot compare ma Chrome the president of its like with the speaker like you have. I don't see another thing again, is that we're not working efficiens. I also look at the stock market. For example, we have guys totally is not used in their car. She's not used, but it is not used. These are captains of industry year, she's not used. You know that. I'm showing there onions that can want efficient the

greater the economy. Trys resect alcoholic proper efficients in the sector. We want people that as well. You be employed ten thousand employees, they have to reduce. Git has three thousand employees. He has room to increase. Well, did not increased because the economy they are looking at more investment parking. That's by the fact that they made mother wanton in the quarter. So these

are questions we need to ask ourselves. And you cannot blame any of these soul complaint because they're edging against the only you know before I drop your mind after other see these solutions are straight cause we have successful people that know how to run businesses. Look at Big invest look at pay Stack. These are examples of the companies that were attracted and before investors and begin where we're not

making use good good use of these guys. You know, we don't see working if you go through the French Republic as well, we call the home tickets with bellers enterpreyers from different First speaking countries are giving exposure to the States. Has increased Germany just save the put opportunity car for people that have skills to come in. And it's getting worse because you look at the new class

and it's shrinking calus if you look at middle class. I was telling somebody that don't think will get that way when it's very unlikely because with inflation is in Kada is getting Europe sorry insuation generally and it's teating into many immigrants and income. And also the will this market has gone in Africa this year, it's been horrible. That's where from Grandad to Nigeria to help to this part

of Africa, there's at that. So I think primarily primly in simple context B's run as the economy, we need to realize that the smaller government that can focus on real successful business people all those costs are talking about his solution. Then we are positions that were Richard Meal and live on sushi business trips only. The point is that we're not joining wealth in the economy. That's just the long and short of the economy. Jurating weld, you can increase

many more where you can spend. Nigeria are spending like a billionaire, but we're a gets man. We're spending it when we don't have money. There is no money. Look at the budget. All the money you make from oil, let me say so slowly. All the money you make from crude oil in Nigeria goes to pay salaries, allowances and service white votes of only civil servants. The total money from oil and gas Nigeria is going to pay salaries, allowances and service wide votes of only civil servants. There is not

a rich country. We are poor because we have failed to generate wells. Down the line, I was trying to add Anniola, and he keeps dropping off in your life. Please keep trying to add you keep falling off. Just to wrap up, I think finally I think into that problem we have and I have become very aggressive that you be come. You know, sometimes you look at the revenue of we don't companies around the world. Let go for example, that mixed toys mixed more money than you and NBC what times

you know. I was telling people today that you too had a total revenue twenty over thirty one pillion. Now you are for a government projet letter. How we are in contract to revenon? Why do you like hyping ourselves because we see the problem is that we add ourselves so much that stake life has really affected so many things, so we don't really university. The problem is that we were coming from the world of fitness when denial was subsidized at the

man's level. So a lot of things that is coming to ship and people who really want to verse that men. We can't do the effort. And that's why I think we should take the Chinese approach that stop cutting corners. We need to pump up productions. We set to agriculture, basic education, trade logiste. True, there are too many. There are too many big men that have that are not creating world to Nigeria. Are too many big men that are living up the federal government not creating a couple of wealth as

too many everywhere. Everybody's special adviser on this special it's just a waste, just so much waste. Two private jets of Nigeria and Europe. They are bad. President, private jet went is bad project? When it's bad? Why does Nigeria need two or three or four private jets? Why? Why do why most way in podcasts? For customs? Why when you make cars locally wrong? The gens everywhere money is being spent and blown. You don't see it save with past monthly funk? Where's the money? Can you go

to your state and that states can say that received from their billion? Where's the money? It's crazy? Joe save us a Joe O Day? What's up? Joe? Joe? Can I call you? Joseph Joseph O Day? What's up? You've got the floor, mister McDonald. Let's go ahead. Your hands up? Yeah? Why can I see you playing the devils advocate here for the government and I don't like it? See you cannot You cannot tell me federal government cannot be or cannot increase mid vanguage. Can they

are increasing their own salaries see spending. Let's let's let's let me call me. Yes, I can hear you. Go ahead make your point now, carlum is okay. I can understand tables issues. He inherited a problem. But even everybody in this country knew prior to study election that whoever goes into that who else I take sugar from? Where is going to inherit this and normost problem. You're trying to determine that he wasn't prepared for it. Good.

Now, why we're still below Carlo? What is happening to our oil production? Do you know about the oil tells? Do you know about the red to the Do you know that they are the amount of punk cream that's going after this illegal export of kludoil is higher than the one that they are accounting for pop are or whatever they call it in DPR? Who? Who? Who? Who tells us the metering of export of crude? Do you know that the record they give you is no record of what we export?

The point I'm trying to make here is if you wants to succeed, if to be honest to himself, to the who haven't gotten the right people around him? Let me tell you just I think he's got appointed people based on compensating them, them that helped him to get into that office. If it means business, if you get the right people here for him to get this in down, because see this country is a very rich country. I will tell you I'll tell you for a fact, because I'm theologists, all right.

If do you know the amount of soledingar us the post night you there no man here? You I'm coming, I'm coming. If to live is interested, he should more pop revenue. Do you know amount of good they are centering out of this country and nobody in accounting for it. And he keeps the bland eye to it because I think his civil software from legitimacy. Because there's some people you cannot fight because he has a problem with them, because they can't tell you. He don't know how you came in here.

You cannot come and tell us. Two you cannot come and standing out business. This is the problem has here. Well, if it's if if we can can come Mozle of himself, we can we can generate this money in this country. We are losing a lot of money here to criminals, even in the high see. If you know how much is going out of this

country is legally you will shed tears. Reason is very high. It's possible, it's possible to generate this high revenue in this country by our natural resources, and that you don't have, you know, let's just nobody the mark Mark let's use football analogy. Mark, let me this way. I like what NLS is doing. This demand from NLS is like it's like what what what I call opposition opposition tactics, putting them on the hotspot, putting them

on the horse seats, making them sit up. Because if if if NLS go and the last saying okay and just doesn't have money there week, they cannot have for they okay, give what the sixty thousand and go and you are cool, we'll not think out of the box. So they should give them this one that that need to press on this. They should go on this track tomorrow. So the trip in this thing many they are to like he got want want of foods around himself and they're not doing anything. They're

not delivering. Can we have to live in out and okay if no money is mark Mark Mark Mark, Mark chill out let. Let's just let's just get get back on track. The point I'm making this this if more I'm telling you I agree that with the NLC that we just have to go. What I'm telling you is that the reality is that they can't go up. Let's use fooball analogy. Chelsea has got very very good players. At the certain point in the season, Chelsea's players were injured, they were not playing.

So the potential for Chelsea to win Chipsigue is there, but there's no money. We have not invested in this economy called Nigeria. We have not we haven't grown our oil output. Whether it's Harry's fault or ten Noble's fault, we have not invested in Nigeria and we are paying the price today. There is no way I'm giving you. It's not an argument. There is no way this government today can pay even more than sixty one hundred thousand has

minimum wage. It's not possible. Look at you to take yourself. What they're asking you to do is that your worker, your driver, your minimum You pay your drivers one hundred thousand? What is your what do you end? What? What do you end from your own personal business or the government. I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not giving reality. And it is the government's job to create the consis for wealth. I get that, But we have to think outside the box. We can't say we can't. We're not

children. Give my toy or a trantrum. That's what Annalyns is doing. Where were they when all these laws were being passed or that increased taxes. Did they come out and complain when viet went up the detumanter and complained, when the telecom electronic fee came out the de quanter and complain. All those things are sapping the disposable income of Nigerians. And if you don't have disposable

income, where do you noun start to tax? If you've taken a dispossible income through levies and fees, where are you going to tax to raise this minimum with minimum? With this tax? So you are the one paying the minimum with not government till it with not paid minimum with you are the one pain the minimum, which is you that are going to tax to pay for ninety four So federal workers would enjoy. What about workers in Cartina and Abya state? How would they get from their tax to pay so it made in

lay in abiasity to from the thousand and era. It's not possible. And the reality is that we have got to say what is realistic so you can give the best approaches. Four hundred and forty will me that everybody sacked. Listen in California, this is California, richest states maybe in America maybe if you put California was a country to be among the top ten in terms of world California they passed the bill here that said that fast food workers will end.

Is it twenty dollars a twenty hour? So the highest because minimum with America is seven. Most states paid twelve to fifteen, California said the most paid twenty or whatever? The figures escape me. Now what happened? McDonald's many fast food resent California are closing down. They've committed to electronic. If you go to McDonald's now you're talking to his screen. You don't talk to a human anymore. Because it's so costly. They can't deploy humans, so

they've sacked a lot of people. They've moved to electronic to reduce costs. Nigeria is not California. Were very very cheap, label very unproductively, but not the individual. But the label in Nigeria is unproductive because it's still manual. Where's the pawers supply to do? Label? In Nigeria, where's the past supply? So this unproductive label can only end more if it becomes productive.

If workers in for instance, nord can make a car an hour, their salary will go up automatically, but they can make a can add because they have no power supply to make that can hour. So we just do don't operate outside the economy. Wees are part of the economy. You can't take wages and say we're going to pay with this one hundred thousand, but the economy will have only twelve hours parts supply, their economy will have on liborhood, their colomy will have only one dollar to five to five thousand.

It's not possible. It's not possible. I want wages to go up, but Nigeria cannot pay that four hundred four point nine trillion from where? Now, where we get four financially I'm from. Where are we going to tell me where we're going to get four pointancially? I'm from. I think we

should just change that. Let's face you can't just face government. You can't say, because you need to to get this revenue, let's change the topic and expanding how they can do. But that's the topic, the topic productivity. That's what I've said mcgonna. Whether I would defend or not defend, Yeah, you know my stance on the government, what I would defend or defend. We have to be realistic. If you want to get more money, make the economy productive, that's the answer. You've got to provide power.

The government has brought past supply, roads, infrastructure and security, so the private sector can create the world defend or not defend. There is no way you are going to raise four point nine trillion annually. This is not one time or annually from this economy Nigeria. There is no way, I get it. You're going to go to two hundred so that as if the bill will be about maybe two points something trillion, Where would you get to

trillion in this economy every year? Where where where will we get it from? You increase the eighty if you increase But I just said that. I just said that. You do an austerity budget. You stop all capital projects and you take the money from those capital projects to pay human development initiat. I just said it. Now, austerity budget, all this nonsense. Your channel a broad for training. It stops any spending not tied towards human capital.

You stop it, including capital projects. So it will hurt us in the long term. But for the next twenty four months, you want to stop everything and say we're going to focus on human development index If it's not tied to food, education or help stop it. Then you go directly and you say, okay, what and what do people need? They need power, even if it means you are going to subsidize diesel for industries With that money, I want you take from say Ministry of Power, Ministry of Women

Affairs. You take it from there and you subsidize this for one month. You are growing the economy right now. It's like your house is burning, but you're going to prize tile in Italy. Your house is burning, you should be worried about what your prisent tile in Italy. You are important austerity. This is on Nigeria in ninety three. We are afraid of hostility because austraity makes us lose elections. That's why we don't do it. Ask any

economists. What Nigeria needs today is an austerity budget, not high fluting budget. What you have ministers doing farm and it You don't need all that basic basic needs. What do we need today? Food water security, not even power, food water security. I wouldn't have it if you don't face those three things. What are you talking about? What are we doing on Twitter? Do you think this is ready for? What? Mark that's not with

the body language. But that's what you're asking me questions. Have answered you. I said of starty budget, and I'm not doing politics here. I'm not dependent. I'm telling you what needs to happen as an economy. I'm not an economist. Wanted to happen on the economic strength holding the peace idea. Yeah, I think a lot of people are missing the fact that you're not defending government here, and the fact that we're just being like, look

at the news from char school. They're going to connect administ that doesn't crazy. This is goment Ministry of Finances owing in power, which they're only school. I was. I was talking to someone that says that's look at government's application has been See the time I've been looking at what you're from that time to the present, we've never had any implementation of just we'd never add even the pod we don't you would, we don't meet. So the fact that

it's not that colony defending any pot, you're reprotective. That's I understand the fact that I just see anything we talk about the government, we the field that sometimes we are sought for them unite that they have going helped the matter. I agreed. And that is why the optics really upsets me, because if the president came to power, for example, we ensured that the office wife you were was more fugal, it will be ent sell this reforms.

But right now people are not buying it. And I'll just study. What realize is that right now before comment can meet the present obligation. That's why you see government selling savings one that's twenty percent, just to get more funds to meeting for you to talk. The matter is that we are not getting. It's cold cold reality. We where we can, we can, we can talk from here till next year, but don't see where the goverment is going to get two point three trillion A y a Y. So the man,

how are you doing, sir? Ay? Everyone? How are you sir? I'm fine? How are you all going? Well? Where where cop? Well, we're looking for two point three trillion? Do you have two point three trillion? The topic of the topic of today was was the Central Bank of Nigeria wants to be the part is gonna be taken away from them given to the mysture of finance. We are tying that into the fact that the government wants to borrow money because they take it to the mystery of

finance, they can borrow easier without oversight. Do you want to talk about that or are you talking about the minimum which which saw your mind? Let me take this from every angle. Look, we can all leave wine and wine and wine and wine continuously, but we are all more seriously enough to take to move this country forward. It's like, let me put it this

way. The thing Nigeria needs is the right mindset. Honestly, this is just what Nigeria needs, the right mindset because when we look at every I mean leaders across the group, there are people, there are people with the right mindset. This is just what Nigeria needs. Because I always tell people that whether I think who was the one that I wanted to drink three election or whoever I want, still Nigeria will still be moving at this piece.

Why because things have like are messed up, like real good. A lot of things are just really messed up. So what we just have to be doing right now is to train the next generation to have the right mindset because like I tell people, like seventy percent of Nigerian's are crooket They have a crooked mindset. So it's not all about government. Government, the government that the overage Nigeria and our outbeit when he also wants to get in, I

just have his own share of national kit. It's not like every body yeah any like every everybody mus well for Nigeria out there. So the over Nigeria wants to get in, I just have his own share of national kid. So what we have to just be doing right now is to be training the right next generation to have the right mindset, because I mean they are the only hope of the country. Because I mean seventy percent of Nigeia is currently

we don't have the right mandset. Everybody is looking for who to cheat, to cheat this person, cheat the other person. So I mean this is our problem. Honestly, it's not about the leaders. They don't It's not about the leaders they don't know. I mean when you travel around, we see what is happening. If if the government should agree for this four ninety four, trust me, by tomorrow, the I mean prices of things in the markets will rise. Why because now the people are having the purchasing power.

So we're all like we need to really get things done ourselves and think, I mean deeply, it's not about God Man, god Man, godment, God pat we can wind from tomorrow like I will tell people it's not and it's not about who means honestly, come twenty twenty seven, whatever means the country was to be moving at this loop piece? Why because everything is corruption is not about government is just one percent. I tell people government is

just one percent. It's the other ninetyers that are nineteen nine percent. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Yeah, let me ask you a question. If you don't mind, let me ask the question. Do you think that if somebody else had one? This is a question always get if somebody else had one, we had, we had tenable, we had a ticket, we had Peterby. Do you think if somebody else had one that would have the same it would have the same problems?

Yes, but would we have would the response have been different? What's your take on this? Honestly, the response will be different maybe from like, but it wouldn't really make that much of it. I mean difference honestly because they are brought and let's be realistic with ourselves. This has been the way since I mean, like back in two thousand and five. You have to see dropped. They said something decided like from nineteen sixty that we gained

independence. So two thousand and five, like the country has been robbed. Was it five hundred million billion dollars or something like that? I can't remember correctly. So like imagine the country is not like like mister who is the person that spoke mc donald, he said something. He said, it's not like an Anginia is nourish, Nigeria is rich. I mean, Nanginia is rich. Look at Japan. Were started with Japan. Look at Japan today,

Look at Japan today. So it's not about I mean I tell people the quality of leaders, the quality of people everybody and most I do also put any of them and you're one of them. The quality of people who are voting into office is a problem. We need to begin to help people with the right mindset. It's not about having a PhD with in your memory. Is about what what can you give? And it speaks for if someone,

It speaks for itself. You don't joke. In Nigeria's we are more like we always I mean wrap ourselves, I mean behind the emotions and many and some other things. But we have to be realistic in our takes on things because this would definitely not change. It's not about praying and praying and praying is not about saying which being good for the country. It's about actually working, all right, It's about actually working. That's why we most train

the next generation. That is when inger will progress. Thank you very much. Why good comments. I appreciate you where you're calling it from? Just just to ask what did you say where you're calling from. I'm calling from Zari right, nice, nice a y. I appreciate that. Thanks for thanks for helping. I can you've got the floor? Why? Thanks so much? I can got the floor. So what I want to say is

I tell you are right that the government can increase increase the salaries. That so you can increase the minimum So you are sort of half two three quarters right. I think what you're not saying is that the government can increase minimum which by printing money. Whether of implication is going to be that the price of everything will go. So if the government wants to say minimum wage is

one million, they can't do it tomorrow. The problem is that it will print and prints and prints, and that one million will become like thirty thousand or nineteen eight true. That was before. So the question is when people say, oh, they can that if you're going to tax this, government

can do this, government can do that. What they are not saying and what they are not really thinking, is the trade off you if you increase which on a thousand, if the government agrees to it, and the comments that we paid it just means that they are going to print money and inflation will increase from here. Now. The other thing too is this idea that Nigeria is in rich country. Sorry, Nigeria is not a rich country. If you look at reserves of a lot of natural resources, looking nineteen about

what ifore natural sources. If you look at the results of natural resources in the world, it's only a handful, only handful that I can say Nigeria is like top five in the world or even top ten's it's literally just like a handful, maybe like four or five. So you'll be talking of maybe a natural gas for instance, You'll be talking of a cold for instance, but when you're talking aboulithium, they're talking of lithium for instide. Everybody's talking

about how we should protect littlem experts. All of that. Nigeria doesn't have much in the way of a lot of these natural resources. We have incizeable commercial amounts agreed, but there are not world pitching. They are not enough that we can say, oh, if we limit the exports of this is going to increase the world price. Or you look at even cocoa. You and I know that cocoa now or a few weeks ago was reaching ten thousand US dollars. It was because of the filled crops in the Ivory coast and

Ghana now. It wasn't because of my before in the early sixties. If Nigeria said the price of people is twenty thousand years dollars, that's what it would be. No body. So this idea, this idea that is still ingreded in Nigerian's that Nigeria is somehow in rich country. We should disabuse our minds of it. It's affecting we were thinking and I have to add them add towards lumiday is saying. Olmitia was talking about how we should increased production.

I agree with you, increased production. But it seems that all our conversation about production in this country is always about agriculture. It's always about agriculture. The thing is, if you think about the geopolitical reality that we're facing today. War was everywhere to the Russia, Ukraine, Tan and possibility that we could have the South China Sea become a war zone in a few years

time. You and I know that if that kind of thing would happen, even process good or high end goods like laptops, flash drives, mouse servers, so many things will increase in price and will be in a serials mess right now. So what Nigeria could be doing at these points that will not

cost us more money? Saint Ambassador's same foreign emissaries to all the African capitals to try to get concernsus about the the Africa Ritard Agreement, to try to ratify it and to ensure that we transmitter as well to move Africa towards a

free trade a situation. And Nigeria should also increase manufacturing. And I'd say this, I know this is quite quite an I say it's quite a controversial of view, but I think if you look at the the composition of our GDP as the country for a poor country like like Nigeria, we actually invest very little. We don't invest up to twenty five percent of our GDP there's no money. Now. You cannot become a rich country investing at seventeen eighteen,

nineteen twenty percent. We have to find policies that encourages investment, that prioritizes investment over consumption and over government spending and all of that, because it is increased investment that we increase the export was to get the dollars that will bring into the country that we can then invest in that sectors and all of

that. If you look at Korea, if you look at Japan, if you look at Vietnam, if you look at China, if you look at the Taiwan, this is what they've been doing over and over and over again. Investment rates of thirty five, forty five, fifteen in some cases at one point then it droves down to fourteen forty five, thirty five, So between ty five and forty five percent, that's really what we should be going

for. But this idea of will increase, will increase consumption, will increase consults at the expense of of the investment is literally robbing pet out of paper. It's like eating your seitcom. You have one con and you're eating the whole corn because oh, you're hungry. Today. That is literally what a lot of Nigerians are advocating for when they're saying, oh, we just boost consumption post consumption. Yes, you grew your economy in the short term,

but to affect your long grown growth. And you and I know long grown growth will affect our children, to affect our grandchildren and whatnot. What we're suffering today as a country is the result of decisions made twenty thirty years ago and even the decisions made today. We should never ever forget that when we talk about we will talk about, oh, boose consumption post consumption, because if you do that at the expense of investment, we will suffight in the

long growth. Thank you, good point. Okay, I mean it's not where I'm making this point of one of our game. I want the workers to end one million a month. We can't afford it. I mean it's as simple as that. We can't afford it because the economy does not generate wealth. The workers in Nigeria are unproductive, not because they are lazy, but because the economy is still manual the normal. If you think of a farmer in Nigeria, what comes to your head. It's a guy in the

rural area with a whole. That's it. Think of a farmer in Ohio. What comes to your mind. It's a guy on a tractor on acres of fields of width. So you can't grow weld when you're when you can't even grow food to feed your baby. You've got to first of all, eat before you can talk about building roads and boie start. I want to pick on a Boian. I'm so sorry if you have from a boie typifies what's wrong with the economy. A boie with the poorest state in southern Nigeria,

the whole of the South. That the poorest state is going to spend fifty billion naira. If you add the runway extension to what they've done on an airport, fifty billion is one of the largest persons of rice in Nigeria. Backlicky rice. That's a boy. They've got salt, that's a boy. If they took ten percent of fifty billion and invested in rice mills, small ones for all the guys in air Boie, they will create wealth in the rural years in air Boie. That would then drive consumption, that would

then drive education that would then drive long term wealth creation. The boy, but no the governor and the leaders in the boy have gone through fifty billion naira airport in a boy how many planes like the Nugu talk less a boie. But this is the problem when you That's what I can say. If you invest wrongly, then of course the outcomes in ten years are gonna hurt you. In nineteen seventy six, one went to Guyana. There was a

strike. His plane landed and no one could feel the spain. Go One paid their six months salary and told them our problem Nigeria is not money, it's how to spend money. It's a true quote. Google it true quote. He paid six months in Guyana. But in those six months, Legos did not built. He didn't build underground subway in Legos. He didn't build GSM in Nigeria in the seventies there are many things. How many pots did he built in Nigeria? But he was prancing around the world ten other problem

is not money but how to spend it. Today we have no express road in Nigeria going from the east to the west of Nigeria. There is none. The nearest you have is legosy Baden, the one from a Badon to that's not an express rood that's a four lane road. We don't have any express roads. The Legos Ports. The road from the Legos Ports toward Jata is ten lanes ten then the road from Legos to a bad one. It's four lane just for nonsense lanes. But it is a country that had money.

There is no road ten lane road in Nigeria outside Legos and Abuja. Show me the one ten lane outside Legos and Abuja, a country that has crude oil revenues. So why you don't spend on activities that generate welld You can just wake up and say you want four hundred thousand n minimum wage. What NLC is saying is this NLS is saying that the road in Niger are bad, so they should buy every worker and suv. That's what NLC is saying, buy us suv because roads are bad. What about fixing the damn

road so you don't have to buy an suv. That's what should be fighting about. Long and short, we need an austerity budget. We have to stop spending money on nonsense and come to our senses and spend money right. You can't be spending money on private jet when your citizens cannot feed you want to back of risis. People are is in kissop soon sign me video.

Do you know what ky soap is? Palm oil soup? Key Soup plies to take that back today Key Soup, I were talking of coastal road with Key peoplizing baitting with case just palm oil and the soul for I want to say, that's what you guys are funny. You're found the kid from where? How you want to see them? Who is? Nobody's going to government here, but you won't see it if government gives like I can, if

they give you that money, they will come back and text you. Now, why do you think our topic today is the SA Nigeria into independent central Bank. They want to position themselves to print money to pay workers. That's what they're taking away MPR and Montreal policy from the CYBI and to the Ministry of Finance. Because the militual of Finance, who don't coordinate the printing of

to pay workers. What's the end goal? Inflation? They might they will give money with the right hand, they will take their left hand via inflation. Guys, wake wake up, this is not hard to understand. Wake up. Jk Ov, jk Ov, You've got the floor, JK, what's her mind? Hi, thank you very much. I hope you can hear me very well. Yes I can, all right, thank you? All right. So I actually decided to get Mike because of the last two speakers. But I guess going by the topic, I guess we have to

function like probably other major economist function in the world. So if they don't function independently, we have to figure out a way to make our central back and still be connected to the government instead of being independent. Right, But I'm going to just counter it to the last two speakers from the guy before the last one said, I don't know why I came up with that,

because that's totally different from the topic. I think that's been political. If you say, oh, if a different person won the last election, and it would have been the same, but clearly you know that's a big lie. It would have been the same thing because when this government came in with how they all you know, the way they started building govern made houses for the uh this pending. You you saw how do you spending ways from the beginning, So how do you want to tell me if a different person won

the election. I don't know about article, but we know about the or that candidates. I don't want to call names, but article might be a bit close to this kind of UH, this particular government. But we know the labor governments would have done things a lot different because I think at the end of the day, boison to how you how you manage your economy and how you want to do your expenses, that is how you will end up

being in this situation we are in today. And if you go back even from when this government came in started with UH some cities gone, with all those crazy policy policies, some assaults of every kind, and how do you want it? How do you expecting it to be different? It came in and said subsidies gone, without you know, any kind of question or any any plan to question the potential inflation that that will result from that. So no plans, you know, and you don't say it's going to be the

same. You know, that's a big life. And then the last guy said Nigeria is a poor country. If you just take if you go to go to Nigerai is definitely not a poor country and is a very rich country with poor leaders. With that of leaders, we have some of the worst leaders in the world with no imagination and no vision. The guys. Capital is in nineteen seventeen. It was better before, so we were poor now

ten years ago it was different from what it is today. Ten years ten years ago it was about five hundred billion, right, today's behalf of that? Right? But we're poor. Yeah, but we're poor. Are we reach this Nigeria poor country? Reaching because we are poor? No? What is the country? I will just get well, I don't ask him managing the economics terribly and I was doing before. I was doing somewhere before you before you before you're caught in right because today, of course it's low and

before it was it wasn't that law? Right? Google today? What the what's Dubai Dubai? I don't know how big Dubai is, but we all know Dubai as as to buy it is not even the country is the city? Right? Google today? How much you made from tourism in twenty twenty two? It's over forty billion dollars? If everybody want to if you if you don't know to know, we all know Nigeria has a better climate than

Dubai. Right, but if we if we if we have any kind of little leader with with with a good sense of vision and then start making tourism even just tourism alone. We're not going to oil. We're not going to because we're not just tourism alone, because we like people a big breath our uh give us the old idea of how much just uh uh. The Netherlands mixed from agricultural alone every year over one hundred billion dollars. Never, I

mean, I think nine stateies bigger than Netherlands. According to him, I mean, we we all go good. That it's true. Right, So we're talking about there is agriculture, there is we have oil, we have we have the port of the best climate in the world. Right, and then we can't do not anybody. Then it's ours the poor country. Know, we are pooraders. I can even do nothing. That's why we are in the situation where where where we find ourselves today. Don't tell me that

jurants rich country. This is Arsenal. It's as successful for book club. Said that again, it's Arsenal. It's successful for book club. By the way. By the way, I'm an Arsenal fan, so I will tell you. I can still tell you why we why they find themselves in stitutions alread they are today. You don't keep us for over twenty years and expects any mir Why why not answer my question from twenty two thousand and everything started going down here because it's my wouldn't pain you don't even invest? No,

I hear you, but but but but it's Arsenal. It's Arsenal is successful football club. Okay, the lack of success we all know that, right, but because they kept a manager that wasn't I know what I'm asking there? Success? There is successful football football. You know we're having today? We have the property is rising? Anything? You know they're successful enough. I wouldn't say they're successful enough. I think I wouldn't say that. I didn't. I didn't The Top ten was the wealthy club in the world,

right, but I didn't. I didn't ask you that wealthy. I just I just didn't take a lot. They didn't get a lot of trophies. You can't see that. I just yeah, asking the top ten every year, I think I should, right go ahead, Yeah, so don't don't say guy, hold on, hold on speaker all you see like your argument. I listened to what you said, and I want I listen to work. I can't tell authorities. You need that NAG no rich country potential and

outputs now don't. Now if you look at the richest country in terms of natural resources, we have about one United country. NAG is not on the top put you could check it ci cie. We searched, there's world you graphical you could check that. Now, the richest country in the world in terms of natural Russia. Now we talk of outputs. The richest country in terms of GDP is the United States. Now the GDP per capital. Now

the problem with NADIA is that you should not be where it is. But we are saying that the way we're pushing ourselves like this kind of states meant this well, a lot of what's missed the point because your naturally it's not the rich country and in terms of all ammipations that I should if you look at the network of Russian natural resources dollar teens is twenty times what they're doings less of what they're doing they're not even ustilizing and one twenty of it.

But if you look at the United States, for example, United States, I think it's the total fourts riches country terms of natural resources, but if you look at their output, it's much than the Russian. What can you try to tell you is that see the world judges output rather than potential. When you say leaders and everything, nobody cares outside human capital is natural resources too. The richest countries in the world I have really invested human capital.

Everybody has gone beyond natural resources. Just watch time won Japan is dream. I did the top biggest companies in the world, for example, four of them are tech companies, the other true out their unco Google, Apple, Microsoft. So what are you saying? This has companies by brain human capital. So when people are saying that, you hold on a second, if what what? What's your arguments? Right? We don't think we have if if we if we got it right, like I forgot good leaders to make

things work, we would have been where we are to this. Yeah, you are really right? Okay, So because in the in the in the early eighties and there backs we're better than China and other countries or whatever. And to where are we to do? We are nothing because we are bad leaders and we couldn't get it right, not because we are not, but we're not. I think I think the potential yeah, but the point is that if we are better leaders won't be where we are to that record,

you are rich country when we got this right. Bro, you've got to allow orders to speak. I don't want to mutube, but you've got to allow for to make a point. You just can't keep going on provide power the point I don't want to. Let's not don't an argument. Well, trying to get towards this. It's in effect. It's what results. You have to show results. You have to show results and say yes, we're

ritual poor. What's the point of potentials? If kids are eating from garbage dumps, where kids can go to school, where there's no water in any public tap in any local government area in Nigeria, any local government Nigeria none has running clean water from the tap that you can drink or give to your baby. Then how we're talking about that a rich potential. You can go to the market and spend potential in Ghana, in Togo just near us here.

The countries seems to work and they're just near us here. They have the same almost the same tribe that we have in Nigeria Cameroon, same thing. I was shocked. Cameras pat deep is higher than Nigeria. Cameroon that has a bad leadership. But it's called be not bad. So why do I do you have a hire better per capita than Nigeria. Let's I don't want to give excuses. I'm just trying to get a point from you. Only you've got the floor. Ovia. I appreciate your comments, I really

do. Thank you so much for helping there ahead. Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Nice conversations. My view is does Nigeria need an independent central bank? The question has to be answered in relationship to what's our developmental policies are as a nation. Okay, so I may not frown at what can be classified and in sexuous relationship between the central bank and the developmental policies of the government of the nation, and we have seen

many nations that have done this. Alternatively, we can have the independent central bank, but we most have a development bank that will necessarily channel government funds towards developmental projects. Thank you. I mean that's the point again. See what Nigerians I don't hear from is this we need an austerity budget. This

spending money is not going to take us anywhere. There is no money to pay labor, but there should be no money to pay the government too tingobook cannot drive around in air conditioned SUVs and tell NLCRE he has no money, he can't do that. And labor can only step down when they see that everybody is in the pain together. This has got to be a complete should we say on stop them stoppage of spending Nigeria. You can't buy an suv

for everybody because the roads are bad. That's what Label is asking for to pay one hundred thousand LGD. You can't get that money if you like shut down the country for one and that's the problem. They're gonna shut down the economy to get some that they would never ever get. They are not going to get four ninety four thousand monthly. They won't get two hundred thousand monthly. I don't I think it should be. I think should be should get

more, but Nigeria cannot afford it. And the answer is not the labels strike. The answer is to demand productivity from the government. Demand that the government provides power to industries twenty four to seven. Demand it, Go and demand it. You can't have private jets and there's no power supply, but you can just go and shut down the road. We will all suffer that's the point. Your narra will lose value, your deliver we can go weaker

if you shut on the government. I'm not depending governments. I'm telling you what will happen. This narra you're depending will get to two thousand n eer for one. When you keep one shutting down the economy, shutting out the parts, not exporting, not doing business, you are killing the economy more. You are my genius too. Veriments, you've got the floor again. I name right, very mus Go ahead, sir, Veriments. Are you

there? Yeah, we're talking. We're talking CBN. We're talking CBN sort of saying that they want to just lawmakers want to take away the power of certain munty policy rates and of course ways and means from the CBN to Mistry of Finance. We are saying it's because they want to do a lot of spending and they don't want anyone handing in their way. What's your take on

this? Yes, I've been following up the news and the news of events as regards that, you know, so it's very clear that the government of the day is not really interested, you know, boosting of any form of productivity. We are more interested in consumption. And you one of one of the ways where countries get stronger, our countries, you know, become better is by their institutions and even the independence of the institutions to be able to

check meets different policies of government. Being we are in the democratic government, so taking away in the independence of institutions, you know, are merging them with you know, adding to the powers of the government and the center.

You know, it's definitely not the good idea. Someone says power corrupt, but absolute power corrupts absolutely, you know, So strengthening our institutions need to do the strengthen the more at this time, at this period, at this point in time by making them more independent, you know, able to act on their own. Taking away that power at this point in time. Surely when we are going through you know, so much financial crisis is not It's

definitely not the best. It's definitely not the best at this point in time. So of course I don't I don't personally, I don't agree. I don't agree with I don't agree with that without issues. So also I actually want to you know, normally I'm not there listener, but I also wanted

to respond to one of you know, the speakers with somebody else. I was ready to responded to, you know, the speakers saying without even trying to make the conversial more political, but saying that whatever government of the day is power things, we still continue to wait are you know? Of course

it's not it's not true. And he also talkers talked about changing our mindset and and that we need to focus on the coming generation, you know, to change our mindset because we really Jersey today above us we are gone.

So but I believe that is why spaces like this I won't important, you know, we don't have to wait for the next generation to change myself, change education, education ourselves and giving knowledge is the right way, you know, to call the government of the day, you know, you know, to other you understand, because one of the reasons I believe Nigeria I've also gotten into the mess we have gotten into so far is the the the lack

of cynic participation in governor's you know, we we actually need to speak out more, you know, and let it go into that. Look, we know all these things that are happening and speak out and saying these are all right, okay, well let's go there. You guys, you guys my dms are let's go there. I'm really the d MS. Let's go there. So let us be very very frank. The first budget of the president, the favorite first budget was where we were seeing was buying SUVs for the

First Lady's office. First, his office does not need subs. If he needs subs, she can get them without the budget. But why did they put that in the budget because to make the point that we can. That's the reason that we can, because you don't need further going to buy the First Lady of Nigeria and suv for our office. But they put it there, and that I think has set the tone for the government till today. The optics are not right. Tillubu always says sacrifice, give me time.

But he bought the yacht, he bought SUV's, He's traveled abroad. There is no He took a thousand or so people to visit thor how was that competitive for climate change? He took them there. The point is that he does not give the vibes of a guy that wants to save money, but he's asking his nation to save money. That's where I think is his biggest problem, Noble, is that his optics do not match his words or his policy. I don't No one listens to him, and that's a big problem.

That's why NLC is doing what they're doing. I get what else is doing. They want maybe one hundred thousand, so they're asking for a one hundred thousand. In the end, they will come to because Federgunta says sixty thousand, so might comp maybe a hundred thousand. They'll ever, they'll go home. But this just shows that governance is about what you say, how you say it, and what you do. Tinubu is not giving the vibes of a guy that can do austerity budget. I think he still believes he's

running legal state and Lego State was the richest state in Nigeria. So Lego States could buy jeeps, could have high recount expenditures and get away with it because Lego State has revenues pouring in. Nigera doesn't have revenues pouring in. I was shocked to see that Nigera does not make up to one trillion naira a quarter from oil seals. They don't, they don't. That's the federal government. They don't make up to a trillion a quarter from oil seals and

I went to the Jason worer Less portentation. So I think that's a problem this man is having. Dependent is having that people don't believe his austerity or hang with me vibes. So that's why label would ask for a one hunred thousand. I think even if it does, mister Article or mister Peter Robida had come in and had pursued a more austerity based budgeting and governance, perhaps perhaps I said, okay, let's give it maybe betweeny four months and then

see what's going to happen. The way it is now, Libery is saying let's get our own shop. They keep aditing scatters, That's how I see them going. This does my view, and it just shows you that you've got to run a government with public perception in mind. You can't spend all their money and then come back and say, oh bear with me, give me more time. What press your what piece? Sorry? Sir? What piece? You got the floor? Please? Go ahead? Hey? Hi?

Yes, So I think my own contribution is more of a question, and my question the question is I have it. Why is Niger's economy resilient or as resilient as it is? Right this? I feel that the figures GDP capital are not its say that they're not They're not correct, Okay, because if it is really true that the capital figures are that lord, the digit figures are and the poor people are so high, but that means that they shouldn't really be able to take as many shocks like inflational shocks and the

four X shocks as they are able to you know, assimilate. Okay. Like my first the first time I was so spicious of the numbers was I think during COVID and when they in lockdown. I'm like, wait, I guys supposed to be have a lot of poor people. How did these people survive this? Okay? And after COVID? Fine, now so now we have the show and inflation shop and they're still able to soviet it. And so there's something happening in the economy that you know, people are not really

I don't know, I don't think we're getting the data right. And so because even you know, there's still traffic, there's still a lot of bars, like it's still very very active in Nigeria, right, and so I'm just so that's my question, like why why is the economy so resilient? I feel that our numbers are not accurate. And no, I don't think it happened to the numbers. I think it's there's a black economy in Nigeria. Every Nigerian has got a side gig because that's the only way Nigeria reflects

in the data. It doesn't because it's not captured. That's why when we rebased the GDP, I think on the passenger, the GDP doubled because we now captured Nollywood. We captured all those service sectors and then that grew the GDP. That's what we call so because many sectors are not captured. Vocanizer that is doing buying a go, it's not captaining a GDP because it's not how would they capture that. It's not using a card and all that.

Like if we're not we I think we're using for metotologies to account for our GDP and we're not really accounting for it. In the Ninetrian we how discussions around the economy is not Nigerian accurate data. I agree that might not be one hundred percent accurate, but GP is a Nigerian concept. GDP is a foreign concept and you are trading foreign you're looking for foreign revenue. So you have to use a foreign concept. You know, get what I'm saying.

You can't say it's not just it's not it's like it has to have like there has to be some pro no, you know, if this happens in the economy that way, you can't say that you can't plan based on those figures. Just different. You can't say you're playing football and they said because you are in Nigerian and the pitch is bad, you can pick up the football with your hand and run to the other posts. You can't say that

the rules of soccer are universal. Same with the rules of GDP. You measure output, so you go measure that output and you give it a return. That's just it. It's your pa using the same figures a B. It's your pa Ghana. They are all doing the same foreign GDP figures where they're doing which is also the thing I'm saying right like we are using western

Okay, so used to look continent, I used to local money. Now we're Africans our own will because you are looking for Western money and Western markets. If you don't want not not Core does not do GDP, now does it. Ret doesn't do GDP because they don't want Western money. They want their own local That's what I end up living in the hermit's kingdom. So if you want to if like you're coming to my house and I say you must where blue and you want something from me, you wear blue. If

you got to stain your house, you can wear white. But if you want to go to the West to raise capital to open up that trade route, then you have to follow their own guidelines. So I think that I don't really agree that the point of that data is to get West money. I think that economics is a science, and as a science it should have

methodologists that tell the truth. Okay, that are accurate and like you know they are true, they are valid, right, And so if it's not based on whether you want to get money from the West, it's a science. Economics is a science. What is wrong? Give me an example of what stumbers are not? Give me an example. Give me an Give me an example. Which number have you seen is wrong? Give me an example.

The waiting gurn economy is Give me an example is very very I give the example of COVID right at the time, where the poorest country in the world. Okay, like we wear the number of poor people in the world according to it, and then we lockdown, right, and the government like it's not saying, all we have some social study system and everybody go tow thousand, five hundred dollars. Has happened in the West that didn't happen.

Nijer didn't lock Nijera didn't lockdown, well, large parts of lockdown. Nija didn't lockdown. I was, I was, I was in lockdown. I was in America doing the lockdown, and I was and I called Nigerians. I wanted the same thing. America locked down, NIJA didn't lockdown. Maybe maybe they stopped traffic, but now Nija didn't. Nija didn't lockdown, like have the West lockdown? So and again that's that's a very very wide game. I wanted to give an example to say, Okay, maybe there's no

demand. Was in work here or supposing walk here? It's the same thing, bro. If the economic is a study of human beings, demand choices, outputs, cassy's the same everywhere. If you saw you reap universal principles, we can't. You can't hide behind it's a Western science. We can't

do that one here. If you don't, we can't Western science I'm saying that the Western people that propounded this concept, we're doing it from their own perspective, under our own But augur as that twenty l as at twenty fourteen, this Western science was delivering positive results in Nigeria. Twenty fourteen, capt was nearly three thousand GDP was booming. Nigeria was listed as top three in the entire world to grow using the same Western science. Then now it's not.

Now now it has crushed the same Western science for the absolute number. Who is that you can't plan with it? It doesn't call you much. But we've been partying with it before. No, Augur Okay, I hear you. I don't know what we've been planning with it before. It has been working for us before. In the nineteen sixties. It worked for us, So we can't just wake up and now say doesn't work for us.

I hear it. Just think this dig was less than eight hundred okay, now, lest yes, we still went to a civil war right and after three years were were able to come out on kids. Despite the fact that they said it was what do you mean countries that kind of what do you mean? On scale? They find they find on scape, they find on Skith in financial terms. For me, they find that on Skith. What do you mean by ski relatively? How they define it from? How define

it from me? Because people were as in appart from the wares, the rest of Nigeria like people were not having a shortages like that Nigerian That's that's where we started Ways and Means from Auga. The Nigerian Federal government borrowed from the central bank one dollar a poundles I think, how we're peggy, We didn't have a currency crisis. I'm explaining to you now. I'm explained to you why the Federal Government of Nigeria borrowed from the Central Bank of Nigeria to

prosecute the war. That's exactly where Ways and Means came from. So look at the how come there was because they borrowed from the Central Bank of Nigeria. And I'm giving you the answer directly. Go and pull up the Central of Nijas balance sheet. Oga Aga, you are interrupting, Let me talk, then you talk. You've talked, I don't interrupt you. The Nigerian Federal government borrowed from the Central Bank of Nigeria. That was why there was

no inflation. Look at the Central Najas balance sheet. Go and pull it up from nineteen sixty to nineteen sixty five, then put off nineteen seventy. You city increase in the balance sheet. That's where ways and means this whole idea of borrowing, that's the genesis of all that stuff from borrowing from the Sybyan. Remember the Cibya was independent before the war. You had central banks for the western, Midwest, northern and eastern region. It wasn't like you

have you have it today. So there's a lot of history mess people. Let's move on when we can talk about all that stuff. Candy, you've got flow, what's up live in in everybody. I just want to make a brief submission. I think we make a lot of excuses for this government, like why can't we arrive at a hundred ky for minimum? Which is that too much to export? Yeah? I believe we've had a cumulated bad governance in this country. It has really affected the way we see things.

We need so much excuses for this government. The government has been very, very hostile for businesses that are even trying to survive. We know most economies are run by small businesses, estames. They contribute a lot to the government, and sometimes private sectors pay better than federal government. Or what does the government, What does the government do creating a very very harsh environment, hostile

environment for businesses? When GSK was living, what were they decided? One decided insecurity, forest cancity, when P and G was living as well, PNG are excited pot congestion, forest cancity, insecurity. I was reading a report like last week when they were analyzinged to know was one year in office, over one point four million small businesses of how to shut down? What is the government doing about this? Nothing? They've never addressed any of these

things. The other day, mister Bani was putting out the numbers. You look at inflation numbers, they're taggery. What's the government doing? Nothing? No address, They don't even talk to businesses, They don't even talk to people. How do you expect people to even come up with a minimum which you're trying to arrive at. It's not possible. It's not possible when you

create the environments. Definitely. So you're an accountant, So let's let's you an accountant, So let us maybe let's have a discussion about the numbers of it. Look at the point I'm making the government today has failed to generate wealth. The government for eight years before them failed to generate weld. It's the same political party, so no excuses. The point I'm trying to make to is this, we cannot pay NLC or any worker even a hundred thousand

because the realities that we cannot. Not that we should not, but we simply cannot if we go ahead. That's why I believe that's where I'm stopping. If we create a stable environments, investors were coming, and when investors coming, will have a boom in the economy. Definitely, government cannot employ everybody and paying that minimuments. Even if we arrive at two hundred and fifty k, government will not employ everybody. But when government put out policies are

favorable, businesses will adhere to these policies. When the governments it's all about freebilities, they don't even care about people, They don't care about businesses. How do you expect those businesses to pay that amount of money. It's never going to work. It's never going to work. I hear the count like Singapore, how was it transformed in the problem from tired work country to a Second World country? And almost moving to the first word country, what did

they use? How many non natural resources do they have? Would you would you say as an account of if you were advised in the company and the company could not afford wages and the company had very very bad management, I mean, you wouldn't advise them to increase wages because I would kill the going concerns. And that's why I'm that's where I'm going to because again definitely, when you look at the numbers, you take your decisions from the numbers.

Either you do it withall with the management to set the business to the right direction, or you leave the management and the business goes down. There are no two worries about it. Gotcha? So and that's the point I'm making that Nigeria, if NAJA as a company as a going concent that's going to be the number one thing because you can operate as a loss. You can operate as a loss healthy and still be healthy. But Nigeria, if we

if we paid this inflation is going to go to forty percent. And know the wahala the market money increase prices for everybody, not just for civil servants. The dollar, this dollar that we're managing, we're saying fifteen hundred. I keep your all like it will go to nearly three thousand because people would simply take this money and go and buy dollar. That's what will happen. They will simply take this four hundred k and go and buy dollar. So

it doesn't make any sense. And I again, if you're a worker, I completely agree your salary is too low. But the medicine and an ELSI is trying to give you, which is to increase your salary, said it's nothing. I remember when I was I don't know how old I was. My father, my mother was a Christmas. As long as when you do a new year, they do the better. Read this budget during the new year. They were waiting that particular night to listen to the budget. Why

because that was when I'm going to announce the minimum wage. I think the minimum wage was increased to three naira. I remember I was this little kid. I remember they said three era and then the poor scream all over the whole town. It's now trein era minimum wage and something like that. Today we're talking thirty thousand and ira and we're poorer. We are doing the wrong thing. If you are going the wrong direction, going faster will not solve

the problem. We have to change the car and start to come the right direction. The problem in Nigeria is this lack of physical federalism and all this nonsense federal character, land use Act, census, tying fack to land masks and minimum responsibly and not derivation. You have created babies that are waiting for

feeding bottles for Abuja. There is no wealth being created. Is state governor will sit down, wait for a location, my Buja get the location and going go and build shop right and then actually have the got to come and commisioner shop rights as a dividend of democracy. It's not working. There's no wealths being created. You've got to go back. Even if you don't want to fix these laws that are the problem. Say we are going to pass

an austrative budget. Whether you are federal states, look at goment, stop all the spending, stop everything and only for the next twenty four months focus on human capital development issues. Then target critically infrastructure. We're going to fix power, We're going to fix roads. End of story. If it's not held or education, stop it. What is human internial ministry? What the heck are they doing? Ministery of this mystery of that. What are they

doing even education? How much education budget is going to the actual students. How much is going to the minister's convoy, the minister's per diem, minister's accommodation, how much is going to recurrent how much is going to schools? You have seen you be in schools all over the federation, poor state. But what's this spending every this year? Deficit budget? And people don't understand that this deficit. Body is the problem. Is the problem where we're spending

on salaries every increase. I'm giving you your data. Oil money is going to pay only civil servants. Oil money in Nigeria goes to pay only civil So why you're on air presentation for only civil servants? Cindy, please go ahead, And no, I don't want to stop your Yeah, no, yeah, it's just I wanted to make as well. I just wanted to talk about some numbers for companies that lived. Let's look at company like JSK. JSK has been in Nigeria for a very long time. Sorry, can

you hear me? Yes, okay, just Care has been Nigeria for a very long time. When they were leaving, I'm sure they would have looked at the numbers done their budgets, compare budgets to actual results and realize that whatever they are doing is unrealizable. And they would have done be forecasting and saying that even if we continue, we are never going to actualize our results where we want to be. So the best bed is to leave. And

when they leave, When these companies leave, what's the effect. What's the effect on Nigeria's what's the effect on even the GDP? What's the effect? Is going to cut? It boils down? It comes back to everybody. People are worsaw, people are poorer. And what happens f I REST has a budget, mind you, f I REST will realize this money. Whether you like it or not. They'll spread their money across the existing businesses. They don't care if your business closes. They will realize their budget. You

find out that sometimes it tax controllers. Promotion is contingent upon the amount of money he generates. Is it going to generate? It's money when all these businesses are shutting down, it's going to come back to all the existing businesses. So, however, what I want to say is the environment is very hostile for businesses. We saw what they did to Landmark. How do you expect investors to come out to such an environment to do business? It's not

possible. If you could do that to your own what would you do to it foreigner? And that's what I also one who invest in Nigeria. All these things could boost the GDP, But what are we doing? Nothing? It's just privorabilities. The government travels today there in Saudia, Arabia tomorrow they are paying for this, their paying for and that's so three things that would not benefit anybody or the economy. But what do we do is sit down watch that's it? Well, thank you, thanks, thanks, thanks for

hanging in the wonderful comments. How can you you haven't known your mind? You want to get out? Let me just get you in before I move on? Can you you want to say something? Okay, so I quickly want to talk about what world pieces saying. The thing is our actually argue that Nigeria's gdpeper capital is actually about rights. It's not even slightly lower. There's so many metrics you can used to know that our gdpeoper capital is actually

quite low. If you look at the consumption of of setting durable good things like washing machines, things like number of cars, porchasess GSM usage, SM usage, even the kind of GSM people are using, sef how many Nigers are using iPhones, how many Nigrants are using some song S nineteen, not to talk of S twenty. These things you will used to know. Why is shop right? Why do you shop pride leave Nigeria? It is not. It's not only just because show price is just just so that glutals low.

They's so that consumption when you're adjusted for inflation, so real consumption was actually lower. So you can't just simply say all things are those things that that does manufacturing. The thing is this, yes, our economic data are not exactly accurate, but generally speaking, that're going in the right way in terms of accuracy. We're actually getting more accurate instead of less accurate over time because more and more people are shining their eyes on the on the different parts

of our of our economy. So this idea that somehow is just manufactured, that it is not manufactured. And and the thing is, unfortunately, I just think that our basic grasp of economic ideas in Nigeria is very very poor. Like you heate casually every everywhere, no on the on the issue of Demander said that was talking about Nigeria being rich and everything. You call the dr C a rich country. The dr C has has everything everything that we

call everything. You can't see that, Bob. I'll rest my case on this, thank you. Yeah, but in the end, this single Singapore has nothing but rocks, rats and human beings and the original Nigeria. So we can't say because we have natural endowments that we're rich. Saudi has got crude oil, they are rich. So you've got to show walkings. You just can't be because you have potential, then you are rich. It has not has potential. They're not one Champions League. Sorry about sorry people,

but that's just the truth. Clock to one. You've got the floor, sir, mister Muda. Where are you calling from, Sir mister Muda. You've got the floor if you want to speak or we can move on to Yeah, go ahead, you're from muted in your mind, I say, up your hand, okay, yeah, I just beautiful conversation and I just wanted to, yeah, to highlight that we can be doing multiple things at the same time. There is never a time that the government or the country

cannot two person different things. Now we have seen nations of the world okay, actively actively be promoting and supporting specific industries that they have looked at and classified important enough for them and the efficient we see them being intentional in giving subsidies. I have not said that we should give subsidies, but we must have an industrial policy that is geared towards giving us competitive advantage in specifically areas

so we can shine out those services and products at the lowest FOP. This will enable us exports. We most exports. We have to export. We have to figure out ways of heading foreign revenue. So the government has to be intentional and being intentional and in driving resources towards those specific areas. And they and there are many. Every part of Nigeria can get one. So it's not it was all the all those that will want to balance put and

on put. Okays. A woman's hiding a woman. Oh, I can't hear you going once my let's get thinking winky, not the name, thinky winky. What's up? Hey? Guys? If you if you request to speak, you should speak tinky winky. You don't speak, clocked one? Are you right to speak? All right? I was gonna take a move, you guys so I'm not gonna speak, just take you off mine.

Yeah. So this argument about what the government is doing right wrong, like we've always said it, but I understand the fact that a lot of people are really on the personal governments, So no matter how you speak, they expect nothing less than that. But united is that you also need to deal with that. Looking how can we be uh, sister, my efficient. I listen to what the sister was talking about, lady, and united.

I lighted these problems over and over. In fact, that was why if people will for you what you see or what I see or what are reating is that we always compare about the politics, spending, the cost of all these things that we're bringing. But now that we have issues like this, the question a maxim solutions. How do you how should government come about this? And using solution we have right now is to cut costs. Because now if you look at all the outposts right now, it's less than one point

three million dollars a day, and you understand that it's about media. Look at our population. Our population is not slowing down the only thing that's growing first time, and there is population when we are if you look at the interest rates that recipient has been appified. At some point it's going to cool. So when it colds down, MISSPI will take their backs down. Go. So the question is why is the government. Why are we not talking

again that government. We need to say something costs seriously. Story we spoke about it. I was telling someone you cannot fight inflation and good the economy. It doesn't work. I don't know the kind of gets people about, because when you're fighting inflation, you're tightening something. It's just like somebody tightening your bills out, you typing your pills and reaing like a good point you

had at vomit or something happens the cut up. So we cannot typen the economy at the same time goody, and we all know that we are fighting inflation as we caught in. So I think the bottom line is that the the publisher arrested, you can down crypto markets as worsen head off the system. All employments is very high, private is high. Complains that I won't making money are complaining. So I think we all to put our hands on

the desk and find things we can do. Personally myself, for example, I've got to look at how to improve my own because the truth of the matter is that a love of Nigeria is a job place. People are hungry. When we don't talk about food inficial we're spoken about we are Nobody are spoken about food inflash Inflasire is the most important pasicly with Nigeria, people are

spoken about that. So the question is when we don't talk about the most important thing and we talk about FX, we talk about hims, we talk about because we are in the country, it doesn't really help. And I think that is why it's very important for us to really take distance serials and that those with this, all these musicians, all these people are all the

social gimmix that we don't media. It's not good to airpose. The truth of the matter is that we are poor, which accept it and act on it because when we don't keep you really pick life, we're going to enter serial struggle and I pray won't get it. Thank you, well said, well said. We've just got to do the hard work. Let we're rounded out. Now, we're going to be out of here in about say, five minutes, S three, S three. I've got you on point. Do you want to did you say? Three? Okay? Good evening,

everyone can you guys hear me loud and clear? Go ahead, all right, thank you, thank you to everyone that has been contributing really insightful. Well, what I just wanted to add was that in all these things, like, we shouldn't just forget the the basic like if we're breaking it down to the basic course of all these problems we are having, if it wants use or comes to reason and get down to the point of it's very simple.

Someone awesome people somewhere and taking what don't belong to them. That's just the issue. Money, no day money, no day money, no d They still don't care. They're still putting their hands in the honeypot and taking what doesn't belong to them. Okay, now this has dreamed. Dude, they still extend their hands to the bottom of the pot and scrape. They're still scraping these crap. So fire on the mountain. There's fire on the

mountain. They don't care if God has messy on us and purchases their hats. This one, now, I'm sorry to be talking about hypothetical. I just have to. So if God touches their hearts for us on our behalve and they just all of them come together and decide to stop taking what doesn't belong to them. Do you know that even the process, the process of them ceiling, that process is what makes them incompetence in their job. Take

for example, this guy from Cookie. Imagine the time and and and effort to taking him to be making the deals with the principle of his children's school just so that I can say phone one or two million dollars time you would be using time you would have too his states looking to the problems that are a psiding his states. So that's just the issue. That's just the main

issue. If this people comes, if they stop and say, okay, these ones are coming in, they will not have They do not have the the the clarity of mind to say, okay, this is what we're supposed to do. Is what we're not supposed to do. But they are just after one thing, which is how to take that's that's just round up. Close all right, thank you, You're very very welcome, very welcome. Yeah, all right, guys, so about to close. Just just get

uh cinny, do you want to saydthing real quick? For's gonna be then you and I want to call today, Yes, thank you. I just wanted to ask mister, how do we fight food inflation given the level of insecurity in the country. Can I just something quick, like I've always alighted, Yes, insecurity is the problem because an excuse we have we have three We have three syst in the southeast for example, that spends more money on

invents management than agriculture. We have in the Southwest spend more money on social affairs than our culture. So you say its curatey, Sometimes it does baffles me because I don't has the food intuition than what you have in legals example, as if food intuition what you have with legalsh the invasion environment you have, So yeah, it curate is the problem. Excuse because on the investment, lack of lack of efficient workers output Faizer inquivement system as also a provider,

so we have to tackle those things. So I think it's just the fact that coverment does not have to real to address because you know, the south part is that the consciously is the state that look a covement and culture. So the government looks like the article. But I think the president come put the emergency is OK? All right, then real quick, let me let them just see if this real quick. All right, so let me shut down the recording and I'll come back to the space. I'm not going

to shut the space down. Thanks for listening to this week's top. We've been talking about student Nigeria have an independent Central Bank of Najera because of reports that should at the lawmakers in Niger want to transfer monitoring policy over to the Ministry of Finance and not the central Bank. We've said this is because they plan to borrow more from the ways and means and also would like to do more spending. So recently, MPR would make it cheaper for them. It's

bad news. It would increase ablosity of money, it would make now lose value, it would add to inflation, so we are against it. So we're educating folks. You need to ask questions and ensure this does not happen. So I hope you guys would join us next week when we come to your topic. We're bringing in some climate guys and we're going to tie in climate, the economy and investment. So that's what's going to happen next week. I hope you guys would join us then. On that note, I'll

see you guys next week. Thank you. So much. My name is Kluaja. You guys have a good