Dangote Refinary v Petroleum Unions; An Economic Discussion

Hey, I'm good evening. Everyone. Welcome to another money space with me, carlu Agra. Of course, on our space we're talking money, the economy and finance. We want to take those topics socio economy topics, make them easier digestible so that way become a better investor and of course a better citizen. Clearly, this week we had a different topic plan that we had to sort of like talk about this topic today because I think it is the most

Go back.

Now we're going to start Previously last year, the government's regulator, the government's regulator came out and said Dangote was sending substandard pms and diesel. This is the government's regulator, Nadian Adam belonging right. Regulator came out and said it and then had to do tests. You should at he's the years old had very very low impurities At the House

Cal Grillilan very spot on analy This is early aligned with most of your views and thanks for introduction. It's quite unportiate that this dis question that takes my head from the highest level. And yes, you know what I have compared up being good in not being good because of the precorous situation refragiating in that you are an economy and where that put is. But I just want to be give market and why they are that you are.

And also so the politics and all that came into play.

Yes, the Finery card has given the introduction, but I want as to look at the other dimensions you.

Are looking at.

First, Dancot is still indebted in bidners. He's doing the Chinese back some creditors. You need to understand that said, even I had to disclose that if this project was not successful, all these.

Assets will be taken away from him. So you need to understand what he had to put him for this two work.

Also, you have to look at the list of the Nigeria and the economic which can highlighted that is really economy to reality to most of our avoid investments for.

Exchange comes from Coudo. But then I missed a change with the openings of Danko de Fera. And you know, I think the big enemy year is not paersonal pain. But that's why I came to kind of specier. I just wanted to highlight because I think it's a just tructure. I didn't really see them as the real enemy. I don't diversity because and I'll tell you why.

If you look at it, the image in the global marketing has just dropped it. And that is why I think the biggest enemies are the powers. We are not talking about this free market expert and these importance these muntis, because if you look at way back at the problems placing the your state with FIST.

At one point in.

When the budget came to power, he had to beg Shield to take up the statrifiers or I don't at the discount. And the reason was simple because he felt that this body original orders.

You know, the nationalization and inside that.

But those guys give reasons and they said to the major things that I will never forget.

They said, the first thing was that that your stitlifiers were small. The second thing was that this the energy complexity in the Townshill sector was full of corruption and DI didn't want to get involved. And they spoke about how the margins and the finery business is very thing.

In fact, I was very critical web that Goody was about to build the city or fifty thousands, because I was like, do want big players? Because I look at is from stocks. You know, when you un invest in extor, you look at the fact that the imagines in that business, in the very business.

Is not attractive.

Most of the juicy comes from the Austria and the petrochemicals with which they do.

It in different.

With different times idea coming to Newbus again. So I felt when I was down, and so it's really very emotional for me the fact that we tend to give people on de grades when the bigger events. I feel that God is the man of the year in terms of the FTX market, I feel down goods and the man.

Of the year in terms of how the danger and economy afternoon.

Yes, the President brought in the fiscal reforms without substy, but if we had no refined capacity, still be dancing with playing plants.

And so they invested interest. Look doubt about that.

And my concern with Dan Goode is that also is playing so much with is using because.

The average propolic is on the side. But my fil for Dankode is that he also has his own shortcomings too. He's not the same. Yeah, we we reusy much, you know, because that the lot of people are complaining, how can you be working? Fai are? You know?

Because I've spoken too many to call their work as I try to because I work because I try to get what people have.

They say, what said I want to stay said so for me to really present it to judge. So from my own judgment, I feel that nobody is perfect the adversary interests and.

I think the pas the president because he has theministry and everybody. I have not seen his story econic story taking so much certain stage in the world like this Cancote issue.

So I feel that before he gets out of our canoe, I feel that the president should really meet with the major stake coulder. I understand that things are going be neat because I feel that it's too slow. And before I dropped the mic, I also want us to look at the fact.

That you if you look at what disappled in South Africa or was disappled in Europe, you understand that it's non players saying, lookay, which would worry about? We need to also look at that man has cheated and I miss he has taken the breakfast from many players.

And if we fight the wrong person get the trouble.

So I think at back in the unions, I think the unions are contain the fact that they really want.

Yes, it's fair for you to understand what unions are asking for.

If you look at it across the ladder, that could the employees that want to disappear in that in that industry, look about that des by the fact that there which is much higher than the an and what some of them hasting much is not out of hands.

Let's be honest, you work in that sense. Giving those two require some form of vissiance, some sidti.

However, you know, the issue has been these guys have been really at the neck of the Nigerian.

Economy for too long. We've not seen there too.

Much impute when staaterifiers are depleted, you know, belouse of the has they spend some of them are many passing this association and they not beyond the accountable. You know, we've seen how probublic they of Nigeria situation with which

The federal is that we have is second according to the accum so all the stable. So for me, I think, what iss you do two things before immediate?

First, uh, he needs to bring a mistakeholders. I don't think what will said with this pass is powerful for those that I think pears.

Because you can't sack these people. Some of these guys working cheven share them. I think we need to be rational.

Some of these guys have been vegers in the industry. But you can't play your carsive and rest.

But so I support the publicly. I'm not here for people to.

Be sanction and arrested or yield I also feel that has to be compromises. He has to restate because you know the US be concern the act of several times, because I read a p reports which the catastic plix in refiery and the form of maintenance away which at some point.

And talk about. So that's supple that it is really.

Let me great over you. Let me just say this right, every issue you have listed Dangote's workers and all that that can result in a meeting over launch. They're not talking about strategic issues like the pricing of petillium products or that there's an environmental issue. These are issues. Oh you sacked the worker for union, there's a process for that.

Because physical edits are compromised. You know, I suppose with parents that have you ever had Because I look at America, for example, look at the French, look at the matter house.

You see that at some point it's colalys in.

Their bureaucratic processes, and that's because they have a very strong can't integers.

It just you know, I don't know.

I'm not an inteigence of examples. You know, when you look at from your economic understanding, you see that the interesting that you is very it's very tough to be successful business by nager because you are fighting powerful vested interest.

It's not just no inventions.

I feel that, yes we have some compromise plasm, but that's not really the major edite ticulties facially, because I'll tell you for free, when you look at the export capacity as cularly from the Dutch bas with finaries, I look at the latest data from MPs in trade.

You see that DS have changed. There was the time that it was the biggest.

Important for Nigeria, uh after China, and that was because of Petrue.

Now you see danas is changing. On Land is not really there again.

Now we look at the latest data and Spain was the major So the entire things have gone really has really changed.

The namies and these players haveted interest. You know, they're not gonna come in without the fact. But the problem is that the guys vulnerable don't have the strong places them. Yet we are quite divided.

So the business, the business side, the Trump is doing, we wo when he had any time he goes to the UK and then goes through a powerful countries, he takes his business class way.

There's this political covering. We don't really have that inn to be honest, and you know it's it's.

Coming up, yes, but we don't really have that. So there's no political cover for these big players. If could it was an American were you know what the job I've done when Google was fine?

You know, so do you pay?

You could see what it.

Says with different times checking them necessity, I'm going to be really staries on.

The wine and you know, exports and you could see. So we don't really have that. Pip players, the delights of living, delights of down with the likes of these guys are particually on their own. So it wake up within our system that there's us.

See, if you really want to have the successful business economy, we also we need to have restrain the political and take the platform because.

Right now we don't even know whether I would don.

The saying or whether it is really sabotage because the truth of the matter is that it's sabotage and that if you hear that in pleas thats us government to take it up the very news about that. So these are things we also need to ask questions because we we also need to understand what are the podcasts are thinking?

What is the secure to this time? Because all the I work we look at because of the step.

Who can I readily reported it as it is by over a hundreds.

Trust the sisters that it has implication on the middle class that has we can disposable.

And come, okay, let's go to a raffingdo raffingdo if there's way only they don't go with pleace hanger and we're gonna call you again. Raffindo, how are you doing? We're talking about you were talking the down tap? This is the union. What's your take?

Okay? Believing and believe in everyone.

I think the issue here has to do with three factors are lighted and versus the appreciate the effort and the tennacity that would take bring simpler economic And I'll give you a good example. The early two thousand, Nigeria's cement sector was vitually dead and the only player there was u Circle who was later inherited by that fact because of what dependent on importation and this man came along,

And you could see the tenacity.

It's this kind of what this.

Kind of what happens.

So many paganders will use against him, so many frustrations and at the end of the day, was able to try look at this tenacity that the tennasity he brought into that sector as able to make all that sector, all the players coming to receptor that due to him, Nineta has five cement companies with different parts. That is the tennacity of someone who lost a country and what he brings and now just opposed.

It's your finality. We all of us here know that our.

Finally the museum. I like to use the World Museum. They are more like an antiferan zone. For how many years nothing was happening? He came me, you know, did that same distructor staff just two creatures. Nobody can compare the number of Nigerian was created when Niger was important, the number of jobs now Nigeria has for Niaga producing. We cannot compare the same as we are importing fearments

My second issue is.

Lack of standard. Nagia is the oly country in this world where we don't have standard for weekly from a simple goal, we.

All a simple research from your phone, you could easily tell the amount an engineer or a senior engineers when to end in.

Any extractive industry maybe telecoon or all the sectors of manufacturing.

From me click off your phone, you can know the standard. Nigia does not have the standard.

So I have issue with Parson trying to pin that also standards in townshion sector, whether I would like to do or not the petroleum sectors to the increase streams. You cannot expect from a player in down stream to match the salary.

Of an atlay.

Can you can you explain your support those that don't know what stream up? There? Are you saying that? For instance, did the you know say that maybe what the shell workers should be? What don if you finally workers you get what you're saying, Yes.

That's the majority of the maguement that has always been like.

That and near you know, it's not possible because when you come to the tuntry your properly, your trading or your manufacturer imagine it's very thick. You can't compare with an ushame player or a midstream player. You have to be very realistic about it. And let us know from the first around twenty nineteen, he has really an employees on n yers who are already getting multi playment even when the finality was.

Not even functioning. I have a priviented information on that.

So thousands of nineteen were already.

Employed gamefully even when.

The final was not working. How many campaiming?

How many capitalists who try to taste much you can who pays who pays the worker.

When the company has not even started for that, So that's finale, just be finite.

Working or the payment for those workers.

Because for the payment of those workers when your finale was not working, what's for me?

From all that.

S last?

Or he's twenty two other companies last, they were all the ones posibly was getting the money to sustage the final and working capital.

Now finally started.

It's not even betting up to it's not being up to three years and you are having these kind of issues.

It shows you that this.

Aren in set of people who are not interested in nineteen groups.

Let's for me loone the Manaster.

People are shotting down that the final six months and nothing happen.

Everybody. He has done that several times.

If you know this, he did that book. They did this kind of thing in bocal Blat. It shut it down for a year. Everybody went to but the issueized because maybe it has to do with payments, the loan be payment and all that. You know how you know big and Genier is my issue now or my point now? The Nineteenan government has in roule to plee by through its agency as far as we're consigned, and that you should not be the one determining what is standard wich

Is and.

Okay, let me take let me take you upon that. We've seen unions in the past fight for minimum wages, I mean the sports minimum wage they got that we've seen in the West where unions in GM also fight for minimal wage and they get it. So the unions, even though they are not wage regulatory bodies, I can fight for wages for workers in the private commy that that is fair enough. Like, but just want to be clear.

That that's I used to spend point. Okay, can I interrupt and roughing the little bit please? I think he's making he's making a hell of mistake and I don't know. I know this is not enough on that parking board. I want to correct a mistake he's making place. I don't know if I should go ahead.

If going ahead?

Okay, First of almost we said it's not asking that that gang stuff.

Should be paid the same salary grade with the IUS. No, that is not the demand. And that is one mistake he's making.

And I don't I'm not sure he actually.

Understand what are they asking for?

What is so understand want what what? What? What?

What are they asking for?

After that the.

Employees should join person and as a member of Pengasa, you have the right to what collective bagin agreements.

Do you not negotiate with the management?

And it's the collective bagain and not just about all that wayfare packages and what known as every company we of.

Course what the company will be able to pay employee is not going to add to pay them as cheval and.

But but Daniel in Offenders, he said they want they won't be paid. But you said, no, that's not what they want. But you just confirmed that they want to train the union who then asked them to be paid quote unquote and unquote the same thing.

I don't agreements. You are not negotiating with the monument.

The union at class is negotiating with management and in language what the company. Nobody said that if you an't paying the same for that, that you're going to ask to pay you what the irises are paying. No, it doesn't make sense.

And that's not because I want to be very factual. What what what theses? I just don't want to be brilliance sir, how are you doing? Engineer? Welcome you know that the.

Probably when I have I can't speak to that very well. That didn't what issues just.

Engineer hold on, it doesn't uge in. You're speaking for the union folks now right, I know you as the union person.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no, I'm not I'm just saying that the probably when I come home, do some introduction, you will not even know that I didn't.

For this is not even about now.

Okay, hold on, hold your horses, let me get to win it to just real quick to come the room down and k our come back? Will you go ahead?

That was quick, gritveryone. So I feel your introduction, I tel you just what for lack of right was just until you jumbled everything.

Now you just missed everything because the topic clearly say.

And language you final reverses and pus.

So that things first rapping. But I think someone's my kids on I'll help you with that.

Thank you the first things first, cause I think I heard you say the government has not done anything yet or do you see what the unions are doing? Unions also hold as a shutdown government past that hold the government accountable.

So it's not a new thing.

Paste When unions are fighting for their rights, if it's against any level of government, they can they can like hold the government to ransom.

So I don't think in this case is a special case.

But yes, at the point, who need the government to come in. So if you can see, I've posted some things of your JumboTron because first things first, I don't think this strike it to us today.

I picked the.

Interest from back the ninth September post because I was already panicking from them.

And what am I interested is just because I can't.

Afford to face and in Nigeria, I can't afford to face like forcues.

Or lack of or increase in prices with what is happening.

So that's why I'm even interested in this.

Okay, you know, help help us correct any wrong impression that we've had. I should know my intro has been that in effect somewhere of my interest, that Dangote is too big to feel and that whatever is happening with DANGOTEA and Union should not affect the economy of Niger, that they can still fight. You've talked about government. If you shot honestly, if you shot the Ministry of whatever down doesn't affect nature the same where you shot to be fun down, So correct any anomally, I see you

Go ahead?

So first of all, why should it be like why should our country or why should the government have to why should they be at this point where I we will say dang should not feel?

Yeah, so people come and see and it's the true ty investors. But isn't that a personal investment.

When you say, when you say too big to fail, it's just a realization and acnoulnggement that if the company goes down, he carries more with him. When you see, banks are too big to feels. The banks are private enterprises, but if a bank fails, there's a run on the bank. It affects the economy those that were no business with the bank. Look at twenty two thousand and seven, we had real estate mortgage in America alone fail because banks in America were irresponsible. But that crisis got to Nigeria.

Thank you.

That we don't want him to feel does not mean he shouldn't run that company.

The refinery, that business will And I think.

For Panzerson to come up now and say, okay.

They're coming up and they're going to go on with their stroke or whatever, is because he.

Has not I don't know.

It's because what we're hearing, especially what we heard yesterday from the second what have you, it's that, yeah, even though it has been it's a large investment and what have you, don't not running it as a huge It's a business.

It's a business, and this this man is not new to the business.

So if for any reason, you if for any reason, because he has been called out at various stages.

But it's because of this we don't want him to feel that.

I still we didn't really.

Look at at whatever from the regulators.

To the unions, and still we didn't really sit down and look at what they do.

We need I got you, so like again, guys, we need to share something. That person jubil tranting was the union's position. Please read that. We I don't want to put you on the spot by asking this question. But the same unions were in the NPS refineries. I think a union guy was on TV. Then I want to just say, well he said it was working the same unions and they're not working today. We spent about eighteen billion from trying to do turnelund maintenance on those refineries.

I get you. I know.

If you have a response to move to the next person, but I do take.

Your last statement with you, and then I'll come back again.

Give me the mic.

So that that the guy you said was on TV gave call out to the n NPC.

When they claimed they were because some some part of the story says part.

Of blah blah blah, I don't also have the true details. But that he didn't do that doesn't mean that they shouldn't call.

Then to selected, be selected, selective, but they can collapse and to the feeling is.

That we want everybody to do what they should do. That we feel that this refinery is going to save economy.

It shouldn't mean that we should allow it to run at the expense.

Of human resources and the experens of people's health and what have you. It shouldn't.

We shouldn't just I don't know, maybe I'm trying to be emotional party. I don't know if you want to, but we shouldn't just because of the economy of face issues.

Realistically, he should he should operate the refinery well.

That the end MPLC refinery is not gaining well.

Our juniors are not calling out that does that mean that what they should not be called out to?

Two runs will not make it right? Our come back.

Let's get doctor b a real you doing sir.

Very fine. Might have.

To because most Nigerians do not even to understand the import of what we're trying to draw attentions to. In terms of said, see, I am one person that I hit and they go than go to other than go tell Finally hard you know the hardst is if you go to Susi Media, go to channels arise, you will

We allow things to go.

Service because of our military background and all the stuff before the advent of the bank and Pengers and and I want us to go back to history.

It was the Middia that.

Got this Pangers and all the other majors. Everybody used to have union in their own companies.

Thanks God, their own union movie or union ship had that.

Oh you know it was that military and they were all brought together under dispect. I'm looking and I want also understand this Client and Equal is a private business.

And for everybody who understands.

What relationship between employer and employee.

Is, that's a relationship and relationship is documented and could to find and had employment.

You know, I did not sad because I expected and don go to have taken the good to have taken precautional I measure even when they were employed. People there to study it clearly in the employment letter. We will not allow any lation in our company. And now see it is so painful, you know, we prot since this company is an a PC or Minister of Finance Incorporated or.

Minister of Age or whatever. It's a private concern.

And anybody who is an employee before first of all you put that application, you go through an interview process before they employ you something cap as an listed Then the employment letter is a document because.

We have the coming all lest mission.

We don't even want to start all these days in sety disputes between and liqual that.

God refinery and the employees. They are laid down pusidio democratic. We have been post through our courts and have.

Really look at CPN he capture became the governor of CBN what did he do?

He saw the.

Loss that was ppatriated by God in the message and some of the people within that place. See when they cleaned out spree which were going with what is better the word he took over to the mission to have cleaned up the n NBC some militiary puss that most of them caused the massive clear out over two hundred very place then left the services of the CPA. Some of them went to industry records and they've got to reprieve some of them the hard cases to anser. We

That we're affected, who are.

My friend at the CPA, And that is what is expected if you feel a grief and as an activity as a look, they are laid down CUsing those for the dress.

This is your person and the new.

Pan behaving like abrows, shutting down the system, gotten down guards doing everything is.

Is a relic of the era. How would you not encourage it?

And I said, this again is the attitude that we carry in every day activities.

I am.

I was worst an employee, working more than seven bugs. I became an employer. Time my colleage begin to act, I said, there's what I learn in life, difaning for you with skills and value to add, you player.

Will go to any leg when they change you. I always say it. Never can only say him job. Two years during this bank I said, yeah, I have value. Banks are patching me that way. If I don't have value to add, my employer will. He's leading me off. And that is the truth. And I always said, people say, well, good thing back. It was last like we were not allow anybody to retreat.

If you have value to add to return to the employer asked me six for your hand. You will move from one level to another because you have value to add.

One of the reasons why most of us behaved the way we lose. We have no value to add. Therefore we try to put ourselves like like here us live watch us.

We got together to the strauble time with what advice because the billion ask a person for over eighteen years, we wasted eighteen billion dollars on the liver program on the twenty five that never worked. There was never a time no blank yeah members annually we are drawing one place in me in analysis in the monument, they were flying all over the word of conferences working there they finally that was not working. That was never a time to pink or pinkers like aspect twice everything was rented.

Criminals and the reglittered department of the old The finalists two roads recree after we did watched three of the aady there's some guys went on it to another working he was not working.

So you know when I see people and said what a liquor?

That what they do at the same time with this, if you are an employee in a liquor that go this. Finally, for whatever reason, you're not paying a way, I will have value to add for crying aloud that edge on deciding finalists all over what Nig's right intu it in.

That of the war.

Now, yeah, professors were expected if you did, you have excuse to have value to add.

And it's not giving you got your city looks like that place. That is how it is done.

Most people who in this movementality destroyed if we don't have it, people who have no value to add and the same problem we're having. The public center incomprehends me to come back to pasty. We really we kill were blond blunder just to have a part because.

Value. So please, good day finally is too big to fail. I'm not finally good that good thing. But on this one, anybody that's not one.

Point, we're not.

I'm going to step too far.

I thank you. Let me get what doctor. I appreciate the passion and ship. I think it's we want to have both sides. The point is this, and let's just get this very clear. We're going to have folks that will agree or disagree with Aliko Dangote. They will call you a monopolis. But let's not debate if Dangote is too big to feel it is. I just explain, if frinary stops today today, your dog, your daughter is going

Good there everyone, I've had in mind to start from the subsided itself, like where you.

Just now regarding coming back, because the many who was a dang the finality is the one that's made the disappear. No, sir, Now let's start from the issue of subcity also production.

My name is engineer.

I'm the pature inspector myself there also worked as a latter manager from most financial institutions.

So that won't be on the side.

Now.

The era of sub Cidy three twenty twelve, before the twenty twelfth.

The PM.

So many people there that at the time the EU government answer of as remained depict Later the answer of the ep K the n PMSK me and everybody was on PMS. Now, the era between the the especial of twenty two thousand and nine to twenty lear.

Was governments maybe very mark for PMS price. They goad license to market to bring it in.

When they bring it in, they who invoice the government. Okay, we're bringing so and surprise.

Now the way it's designed to work then was they.

Are over recovery and under recovery. Now, if your landing costs is less than the Sellium prize the Nigeria going to the end episode and then is asking the people us to pay for pms and polictations, then the.

Government will pay back the government. If your unit cost is.

Less than you have to pay back obtuly of the era, it's not always government with now if it is more than the governments, you will taking the cops the value you're bringing the differeniers and then pay you.

That is supposed to work. However, that twenty so many people have beauty process.

So many of our products exported outside the country. Back the drugs that responts story. Some people will bring in ten thousand metric wrong claim do do domination claims eleven thousand metric tones. So we won't bring in prudence. They will take it out and still claim subsidi for it.

If you want more explanation is a Bower's book.

It's when I read it did so many details about what after we went wrong?

Then that's side. Then where it came in. Now that elis was face over the era. When you came in. What they did was they removed they make an MPC.

Disul important of the products such that even if you can't if you order people also have license, you can't stip bringing it in.

But the unfortunating day was.

An MPC price is little less than the landing costs. So there's no way a new market town will bring it redogs to complete the n MPC.

Price now and as the hella.

We have between twenty fifteen up to Socidy is going to May twenty ninety or two thousand and three or twenty.

So that's the era.

Then at the point that was more love more for us again they changed it to pot for paymental delights.

That is also another era now in that era of well, now, this is very port that era of NMC to fort that everybody seventy lesson ninety at that time have to rely on an PC.

Or stopp life.

Now we've got now if there's any destructure that happened that mad an NPC not to delive out on time, that's what that person and those go outside and drinking. It can't break even. That's why everybody now have to wait for any pc emphasis of everybody. That's what bring all those cubes of those times.

But now the era of susigy is gonna find.

Immediately. If you notice your wrides went to exactly what internationally then everybody started bringing in I remember my dam they didn't do ceremonial and it was there all this government.

Where where are you going?

No? You know you may and you you say something about that takes the wonder that let us have no.

That is why I'm priving that.

Regarding that one first, Now the the what is the other king? That's the main reason why they's no key, Not because of that goody overnight, not that all it has a presence. Now do go there as if for lender forty cent over doction.

You can protect this.

Now that will be one on one side. Now on the side of the issue now and saying, dang gooding what you are I think was discussing your time? Now what's the issue?

Now? Was there in the press.

Release the month they have the this starts having.

Freedom to join union of their choice.

Which is a constitutionally galanty to write for anybody, and that liberal law.

Some of them I know most of those days.

Some of them are in my situation not this why and the society apranchise will say, okay, we're going to Nika said, apposed them.

Up there for you.

They go on the one when the management, now see what happened, It comes up a bringing about issue of okay, you send in forms to people, are part of any union, yes or no? Then the sacking or do whatever. Now the main issue for numbers. The main issue now is spend that scene you say. They're not talking about your pride. They are months, they are paying depends re state.

Decide to podcast the right of workers to join you, he said, question to rate. See the rights. It's not the gifts. Now that is on one side.

Now we have so many graduate engineers and engineering.

I know what it takes in Engan. We have the technicians, we have the technologies that you have the engineers themselves.

Now the technologists at schools and those are the technician.

Then the technologists are the engineers are people who go.

To engineering school and at least practice for a minimum of four years after Now we're not obviously the engineer and engineer.

Eve was satisfied.

Four hundred thousand ERA by an Indian technicians regular doing exactly the same work in our country.

And people are just justify this. Okay.

So just to be clear, let me see if because to speak. So you've talked around that Dangote allowed the workers to join a union. But that's statement from Dango also said that you cannot force anyone. They said, yes, engineting does make that point. He said. He said the staff can join, but can force them to join. That's number one. Number two I think, don't kind of speaker here talk about it's a private company. It's a private company, the Coat of Nigeria super egos in Nigeria. How much

I don't know.

Engineering the oil industry is in Nigeria, it's not in Marsiat. Don't tell me. I'd like you to speak. So and in the second point, I make it that the private the CEO says he wants to pay some from Ukraine one million and he wants to pay the Nigerian guy ten thousand. So are you saying I'm just asking you, you're saying it's illegal or it's wrong or what's your point, hold on.

On one hand to that something is a legal, is a logical or not leg?

I would say more than that, what is wrong if if he's paying the Indians x amount and wide amount? What is the real issue? Are you saying that the doing the same job. But here's the c right, he looked at their cvs. He knows the body adding is he is the one pain. It's not you and I pain. He is the one pain.

So what is your point?

Answer?

Hold on, hold on, donald, go ahead, answer, go ahead, just go ahead, go ahead. Then give me a take.

Okay, thank you, thank you doctor something.

That's when an employee joins the good thing they give him.

An employee letter stated should He said should? It is should?

Can let me answer this question?

If you have one and you sign an agreement with the person helping you this morning, I will based I would be a state for number of years. It is that issue to court with that and even though you signed it will stand.

There are issues that.

In his level law, like your level level law, even national level organization, it is an in non negotiable provision.

That you have right to unionize.

Yeah, question, isn't my best company?

They do not. It's not given it's not.

But then to ask not your just thing to the hold hold I don't want to meet. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, Daniel, hold on, Daniel, just hold on, just hold on, hold on the point being made it's a it's a private company. I want to hold on. Please, it's a private company. Right, is a private company. He said in a statement that he will not stop anybody from unionizing, but he also said you cannot force pool

And everybody and.

Legal protection and consult for some of these other companies. And I just want to stay really clear first, these are the issues for the domination that we really like so address first of all the issue of private. Yes, we should be really this is what the loss is by various sectors in our economy. A good example is

So first we should actually reduce that where we say, oh, Dangote is a private.

Company that is wrondom the moment. We should not also forget everyone that the federal government also mistake in that final the reason why a major stakeholders in establishments going a gas sector is to put what we call it feels safe and balances and some issues relating to welfare as adults working environments. Victam and the likes not let

A number one did not force, did not have rush, did not see this the close stuff of them a refiner it.

To interest everyone to go on this call that they enjoined. It was two days after the joment that they were dropped before they joined.

And you guys aware the managements preferred about it and kicking from the really motories and now managements will be appreciated about it. Money being are the issue because by the communities, in line with their custom for workers.

Big junior, Big Senior to whatever I want to do.

Now, I think something changs and on the lab and someone else indicated that probably allotting himself.

More decision for this task to drink.

Was really wrong move, probably is going to lead to distruction, distruction when they strike in future.

Or the lab.

It wasn't one that in all of his Sunday his says, how can I reason and logical in this thing? Won't make what would reach over eight hundreadful fields pas preconstruction, first construction, and two years after operation to finally decided to say, almost me beatings that are going so well, I think it's fine.

We can I out to a body or we can ask for someone what is to repeatable available in that set? Because it start SI stuf association, it.

Doesn't cover genius.

It does not cover so we we have to be really careful when we are dressed certain teams as to what needs to be It's a perfect science. Now on the issue of ex Patrick I will say this, I spent some time in Oble States and that I think it was underbo the jannetary game.

We are so one of the biggest consults in my life.

I think the really really.

National reconsulction that was being undod by the Kinistates Civil Engineering Company. It was then I realized first round the experience that I looked at, we somehow over glued the idea of any white man we see on side.

Let's just let's just I think it a very legal point. I want to ask you, is this if they've all joined the union that you had them, it is legal legal.

Where if they're able to prove, if they're able to establish that's the reason for their dismissal was as a resource of the joining association.

It is marked by the conservation of a section forty the freedom are able to drink any association. It creates a discrimination.

Where do they get Where did they prove that? Where do the benefit proving that?

Okay, thank you mister for this good question.

I think someone mentioned I think it is mister Barreau or the front mentioned. Oh, the assistant their checks in place that address issues like this. Again, we were a legal system in Nigeria doesn't not actually.

Provide legal system the time.

If the time, Dad, if it's still in those it is going to be different or the last the time for this matter to be to eat condred of things to be address.

Trust me, Okay, let's let's.

Let's do that. Let's agree to that. What about Pengerson? What is the legal before they can go and strike or to block the refine? What are the legal what they want to do? Can they just do what they want? What are the process.

And order to know that strike all the label law is considered as an act of good. I read the statement that were released by the TAPS refinery said the mentioned issues of people, some contract design those now again you would strike?

Ask the question a questions, ask the question. What I'm asking is that if Pengerson decides to go and strike today, what are the legal staff they have to take to go and strike.

The issue?

Hamidius I, you I.

Have no idea. It is constituted. That's where they have the schools. I think we are.

The point that making that when you bring up the legal side that the workers cannot be fired, because you know you are totally correct, you are correct, correct that no employer should fire any employee because the employee constitionally went and joinking you're right, and that has ruined the course. But then if you didn't now say she doesn't allow Pekerson to then go to an institution and brought them.

Mister reply to that, so training depends on this. Second I started that they are verious sector with different models around the set your believe we have family members friends. Second, you can't you agree with me how dangerous that sect of this intention of the working environment because it changes that they are exclused to.

Now it doesn't interested by data.

That's a lot of then that menial don't have the laws.

But it's not more it's not it's not it's not more dangerous than the Nigerial police force and Nigal police cannot strike. And again the energy sector is what we call a national security sector. As you if we stop patrol, stop products tomorrow, this month already we are going to be panicking today. Government has said they're going to step in fragment as if they did not step in, and there were few accused from Monday panic buying the culls

He would need let me conclue, we can't do that. Let me concute one of different one of the elements and instruments.

Associations and pressure groups like the Medical Association of Ideria te U s uses our work.

We have them.

Please not resigning temporarily again work stations, because if you.

Don't do that time over again a country climate negotiations is street. If you want, if you scrap, if you start with school, let's command this contract and conversations.

It is treated slowly, it is addressed and it is spreaded so much. So important is pressure groups. When need is busy. Government on one of the one of the ways preseral and of striking the area it's going. Someone said, oh it is final, he can do whatever he like.

Please this week said the Jerus.

Precedents across both sectors and putitious that.

Will becoming infow I have no issues with you, and you really have no issues with Well, if we are now to say and say president, one man, one man himself can decide to fight you over, three unions can decide to okay, I want to remove over.

It doesn't work without any traits and travel overseas.

When you say this right, when you see when the point when you when you say this right, we go back to the n n PC unions. They are also unions in n n PC. Why did they not if you say one fight, why did those unions also not use this great power you said they go to guys, look to a body that could step in, and then they went to the unions. Why didn't those unions they went to go to n n PC and make an MPC work. Why is it so selective that they got

Yes, yes, sorry, I'm taking a lot of time from because but let me say this is TRUC. We have n PC, We have pegs. We have pegs total exambile.

And they all have does anybody you've met refinery anyone.

We are talking about like and jury association.

But there's no there's no refinery into time.

Let me let me let me correlation does it's not actually appropriate?

So reason to be with finer? What has what has pengersen done for me lately?

Okay? Greg said, is the reason why people in those street cret because I don't want to go back to history.

That's more. Finally, working in the idea, there is no working refining. Let me go real quick. Let's talking about.

Please let me answer him. Let me answer him.

First of all, people stating that telling telling brown and all of.

The legs beg the n P because not mean that there's no nothing that I'm telling. The truth is many people except you have been so you don't know findngineer. I think.

I already mentioned finance working. Just go straight to your point. I didn't mention that your delta refinery that does I mentioned mentioned the wester hamfin in the states I mentioned. I didn't mention the small ones. I mentioned the big ones.

Yes, mm hmm, let me just tell you this.

It's telling and you telling you Finer, you are quality. There's fingers and really, finally have they show did you have you heard that they shot down? Finally or the able twice because this is you.

Want to keep dang.

Have you heard that I would that is able to tell you I brought it down that you brought that one?

Who I forgotten this man? Let me just even conclude.

That, yes, and I guess refiners, auto gas plants and the appeas Have you.

Heard a show that you plant one day? Have you heard that you are that you're not.

The idea that is really finite justice my face face, Let me seek give you under the distance.

Also, when people say pasin.

Chilled capacity does not determine intention, capacity does not determine intention.

Your intention is your intention? You Capcity, Let me tell you.

Let me tell you because I see the majority about your lawyers and bankers.

I thought you expect experts in your seed for a lot of those.

Give the reverence to those that are experts in your fig.

And pets their opinion. See uh. The perception about Williams.

Having the external influence in the company is totally room.

Extend this thing in one space to them. When I finish all of them, you're kept quiet. And this is personally to you. The idea that union and the externally.

Influenced within the system is totally wrong.

The union has about they have then they have the junel, they have the branch, they have the chapter, and they have the units.

Let me say I want to start from the level.

Let me say that I don't think.

I don't think we want to have on the unions. I don't think I don't space.

This is your space. This is your space, and you have been. You have been sharing your ideas.

Your place. You can make your commisson. But look why those true digital union go ahead, but making you take up the space that takes you up the space. I really don't care take the space. So please please please okay, let's move on, Please go ahead.

My response is to.

Am engineer, like you.

Go ahead? Okay? Is it chickill? Please go ahead?

Is it okay? Thank you? Please lend me some of this poltical count sweet.

I heard that person, I said, I am mostly the one right when I look at what is happening, one look at.

What's happening the environment. Find an environment today. It can reminds me of what I read in the Confessions of Economy Man.

So I know, we have like someone a couple of here, right, we have twenty thousand refineries over Nigeria, or.

The question is what impact have they made?

And then with the economy, the language, the language that they're not swing producers. They're not swing There are many many micro refineries, motorifers across Niger, but only Dangote is a swinging producer. He can affect prices, he can affect outputs at the maximum capacity of all the Nigeria manzena PC put together. If you combine the that are refinering the one and in all of them, if you combine them together, it's not up to a quarter of Dangote

Yes, we're on the same page and this is where I'm going right, We're doing in the same direction.

In sy something. This is what this is my top my personal thought about this.

I cannot think after the government shoes stepping and past.

The law that will protect companies for ten years. This is why I think there should.

Be some form of the kind of a new terminology would say for the next one hundred years.

We are looking at bigger picture. Now, any company that will have x ys that is jerming.

We've not seen before in Nigeria that in Nigeria or even Liphorian. I would say, you know what, I'm going to risk my capital and everything I have to set this up.

We are going to protect such company for ten years against.

XYZ so that they will stabilize before we will let these guys in.

In the past, in history across the world, when such projects like dan Got this.

Project come on in the developing country, especially.

If it impacts some examer elements. I don't want to sound as if I'm being a theorist. You easy, the easiest way to kill it is to infigerate it from the inside and model it and don't go ter refiner before. No reason should be allowed to fall victim to that.

So for me, Homa should step in and protect our project for ten years.

Let it find his footing. The man has decided to.

Bring in over four thousand trucks that would convey this much needed product to paper directly.

It is not a small feat.

It shows that he is serious minded to impact Majian economy.

I perfectly understand how some people feel from the.

Other corner, but when will weigh the pros and the.

Count, we would look at the other side and say, this will have a greater.

Impact when it is our life than will be kill it for Heaven's sake. That would finally should not die.

We need to protect it, saying onor no pen or whatever should give them giving me a lifeline of ten years.

And we should make it kind of law. That would say in the next.

Because we are looking at developing a gurine economy, are looking at super tapping my Geran.

Economy, you know, to solve this effects issue, to solve this issue of importation of of pms. These are two major issues that have clicked Nyderian economy for over forty years.

Now.

It creating slowly, and we didn't people didn't pay attention to it because we kept thinking, oh, don't worry about it is not a big deal.

It has a heat of biling belt and for some reason that they have succeeded.

To get to Yea, it is I kind of feel we should cover some slacks.

He developed country in America. Everything will be done.

To protect Dondy, to seek him grow and stabilize before we will allow anybody to come in with the union or non unions, I mean Centrist president I'm always on living inside, but.

It's in the context of Nigeria. We need to have a change your mind.

We need to have a shift in.

Our thought process. In the context of Nigeria.

Anything that would make my Genian economy grew should be protected with lives.

That's what I want.

I think it's well said that you captured like the Depote and quote the centrist part. I think. I think that's the point I try to get across when I did the intro. Whether you like Dante, where is the monopolist? Whatever I name? You targe him? The refinery today is too big to fail. You have seen the imports coming in. Do you know how much you are spent to fix an NPC re find it? Eighteen billion? The Portacon refiner. We were told that when the lights the paratis to

What?

Like I said, whatever issues they have, the presidency has stepped now a b with the result. Why shut down the pipelines that would have fighten Nira, cause fewer lines, cause your deeping the fall? Why go there? Why go there? Because you are a union and this is why people, Well, just get us to speak. Looky, what's your nameclog?

Just give me one second, like thirty seconds before before peoples, there was something that happened in years ago.

I'm sure everyone almost everybody here will remember.

The HIV said that that took over the broadcasting of Champions League and Premiership from the STV in yes, from DStv.

Can you remember that in HIGHDV.

Right, yes?

And at some point over six months it was rumored that ITV was going to lose.

Their license, and we all sat back and allowed.

ITV lose our license. Do you know what it meant?

It meant that every morning that every household in NINETEERI appaid to d STV seventy percent of people flow to South Africa.

I think we should start thinking economically in our politics, our political stakeholders. She started, he brought like they should. They should be looking out rather than looking in.

If we saved the high TV, the bunch of money Nigerias we are paying to work trampiers, the Premier League would have stayed in Nigeria and created jobs in Nigeria. I knew five to ten people that lost their job stressed away because of that it TV.

So we shouldn't let projects like this die for any reason.

Any other country will not.

They will do everything possible. They would print money to protect such thing because we're looking at the bigger picture. We're looking at the impact on the wider economy. This is not just an individual amount. So please, that is my point. Don't go to your finally should not die, Thank you, calum.

Look, I want to make a contribution real quick, real walk quick.

In ge I was talking about the pages uh.

The fund that your audience, but your audience is bad. Yes I can ser okay.

The page between the Indians and engineers, I understand yours are.

Being in that process and I understand what and Indian technician using the right.

Honestly doesn't matter.

No one cares.

When you made this, technologist don't want be carest you. Honestly you nobody cares. We don't understand what this means. So when you're talking to general public you have to speak another understand.

Think I am a ter, I am an engineer, a que If you come to the technical aspect of this thing, we care not virtually. DA is difference in union perspective between Indians and N gen technician engineers less do that.

But the question is it's not dangotists duty to preach that gap?

What is nare society of engineers doing about nothing?

They are the supposed to.

Make sure that that gap is not created, not down. It's not a good job to reduce that gup Corent. It is the duty of correct like your society of engineers who are busy doing nothing because they don't create any value in this country.

If they do, we will not be having this.

A large amount of arcticians of future will.

Come from different places to come and be taking dusement for an idea.

So what we should be.

Doing is to look at how strategy, whether you like it or not.

Those eight hundreds engineers which are colleague, we understand what is the belessit of doubts like giving to the management.

They're okay, you management media proposer.

Let's run this thing for a period of time.

We'll look into your various consite.

Which is what he does in all his business.

And you if you know that, good day. You don't.

You don't come with this and gone gone approach to him.

You come with with a consultative approach.

Okay, the management a proposed in two years time, we look into this day and this error of there's no pep no pp. That's that's that's a very wrong you. There is no man of fact you want to conclude whether Michael Sewall or medium that pep helmet is not guaranted.

So you can't tell me global a global felm like that, but it does not have people.

That that's that's alone, That alone.

Is is error. Because I've been to the plant, I've been.

To you re finite even as if it's you're giving the helmets, so if I was giving the if this, will you not tell me that people are working there to first seven does not happen?

Let's does not work all right, Lots of folks lots of folks.

Come here, you are only you come on people who are inside the plans.

Okay, okay, gotcha, let's perfect. Let's let's get look, let's get a little bit to speak. Lookal, go ahead please l u q k I e ok look look okay, let's get oxist sense o sense Oh my god, you guys right right pronounces? Sorry sir, please go ahead, thank you, yes sir.

Foremost personally, I have at least fourteen to fifty people who were affected by this issue because I.

Did finish, and a boke of.

My costmates were all employed by that, which was a very good move, right it kind of a lot of them were no unemployed and stuff.

However, there were a lot of concerns from them. Pop was one of them. Health insurance was another one.

And someone was speaking about upstream, downstream, midstream, every other stream.

You cannot for one, compared saler. It's quite all right, that's true.

However, the discrepancies they were speaking about between the Foeigners and Nigeria's was not just in terms of salary.

Was are issues like feeding. We also had issues like indias referring to people to racist.

In our own country and now this was what I said, and this was all I noticed in the hope of them way down what he saw Pengasy coming into this company. He did not want that to happen because he knew the pengas In might not just a weafare they will also have the capacity to shut down because they can go on straight. So that was not something he was willing to do. Quite other but the company itself was not willing to negotiate internally with the staff now on

So you have to understand that where that good is coming from.

But the company policy itself failed to adjust the issue which should not have even go to the outside to Perhasson the first way why this issue should have gotten outside to Panhassen now speaking about that as the national asset and stuff like that. Downwoaday is a national asset, which is why he is supposed to be a role model to all the smaller things about being sting.

That way and.

Let's say like filling stations and outblats like that. Opt today they pay for attendance fifteen twenty thousand. If there was some sort of unions that works without attendance, they will nego ships up to one hundred thousand ward fifty. We're not saying pay the bit that or pay people the war in this present economy.

And also look into their webfare.

Like I said, a lot of my colleagues that finished where too are graduates. It's not as if these people are technicians or finished put on battel in the class.

These are people that.

Have felt okay, we can work with dan vote, we can also improve the economy without know how I'm being treated like charge. So my point here in conclusion, because I don't even want to waste a lot of time. I feel like the way the HR, the way the people in charge of staff in downward the money issue was out of hand. They fail to manage the issue operly, it wouldn't have excalated to the points whereby you have to go involve bengers in bengers Indeed this spengers in did.

That and whatever.

Where as issue has got into this points, we hope they gets in resolution because nobody in their licenses will want to see that what they feel right and they move from pengersins really shot it out from outside God just goes on to proof where that what they would have been a fait of you being so involved in this companion. So I feel like they just have to find absorbing the whole company from playing totally doesn't really that's.

Okay, that's a wonderful that's a wonderful sentiment to Josh who that's that's just responding. I think whether balanced sentiment with just shared that Dangote itself failed in it's so internal, you know, should we say it feels internally allowing the excenal parlices to come in and of course with nas and is spiral out of that. I very much like

Here is I need to have on this.

You know we he had to say, Oh, I'm going to employed engineers, first class engineers to engineers is not looking them well as much as it's all the stuff also waiting here.

And give you an example, Calum and the banking industry today, if you wanted, most bands, most banks.

Are having issues with their with their flintake and all this stuff because like this, this smart guy's dead. I'm moving out of the system, sitting.

Employment elsewhere, some of my home living in truce out of the Actually now banks are going out of there.

If you go read them today, you would see.

That they are going out of their will the vampire and make sure that those guys sit there.

I think department those within the system are retained. No, I yeah this thing.

And I'm not defending that good like I said, I'm not if i'd not that good day, but I can't tell it as an employer of the level and lookal that God is not dumb for the levely as we say.

And I don't think ancle for whatever is that we treat shabby. If you look at most and you could have got this company most of them from I like it to Anigeria the top most except one or.

Two ins Lebanies. We need to be very very careful. I am not already played for him with what I work was for as n you guys, I've already did you tell everyone of you start.

Looking the groom as an employee.

As an employee, I knew franks were working in different banks. That my employee asked the bad joke with me for one minute because I was always on the move.

And he said him within the system, where do you guys, whether instead go to Shell? Most of the the gs and Shell are so respected. He collecting that was a true we meet you or somebody made to one. He made first class. He is not being valid for Plana.

If you have the values to add and if you want again walk and just something better.

Thank you.

All right, let's get a looky in doctor, look look at Elie okay, process.

Yeah, yeah, thank you?

Can you hear me?

I can, sir?

Okay, yeah. So what I want to say is this, let's remote.

I agree everything dangle, Dangle there has issues with the HR department.

But we have to get into our headtack. Don't go there is our star boarding.

You agree with me that rocker fella in America but when they started the rail they had they enjoyed. They enjoy lots of stuff monopoly. The enjoy lots of stuff that the government knew, but they couldn't do anything about it until other players gave it until later down the roads don't go te too two.

Isn't that face?

Let's not let's not let's.

Not dis that dangle the true isn't that face? Yes we are going through. Yes Dangled need to step up, but we can't have it. But the way the unions are set up in that there the way they're operating that JR. If you don't play by the rose, they are got a message. Und you are supposed to be a thing that. Yes, people don't like them, company orders, don't like them, but they are not supposed to be that beast that every point in time, once you just agree, they'll find.

A way to get you. It's crazy you have a union, you have outcome a union just how they're supposed to be an employer and elder supposed to.

Be employees themselves that they want to shut down your whole company.

From there, they will tell people that are working about the shut down the gas the light to the all states, does.

That make sense, doesn't make That's where they that's where they missed its points point.

You know, they have to negotiate at every point time. It's all about negotiations. We can't do that. We can't keep doing like this. It's abody that is eighty billions over.

I don't have many billion the dollar dept is in and he's doing it because it's even helping the company.

If that should go down today, the video scus.

That will be Nigeria. It's not done. That's the fact.

So no matter how you know, even where that is behaving somehow, Yes, we have to correct it. But at the same time, it's our start. Boy, we have to purpi is our right now? Dude, we have to propi.

We have to correct, but we have to paper at the same time. That's the truth.

I think as if we have about the choices, we don't have any eternity have got start than finality.

Nobody has not.

Finally, that's that's the that's the hard truth. There's no other option. That's why we say too big to fail. There's no other option unless we import I mean if you importantly, now I go to three thousand, so you can choose your poison. You can't pat your habits.

When where we had somebody opening company that is.

Affecting another countries economy, that refiner is affected people in Europe, is affecting the refinery, the closing refineries around the world.

Because of that.

That is the plots positive for the GIA. We call ourselves giant. It's not my mouth, it's by.

Steps this it will get it.

You will get it all the way all round. But it's something that we have to We can't talk to him with everything was gonna be fight, Everything was not. Everything was not. That is like if we look at how big down you don't look talk about it. You see some people you will blow the blog.

When you think about when you think about it critically, you go to Bloomberg. You read that the the the refineries in Europe are closing down because of a refinery in Nigeria and the same group there's the same Broomberg so that that trucks have blocked that refinery. So they're like, what are we talking about here? Can anybody come to the journey invest They come to well by trucks can just go un block your refinery the same give the same FDI. So if I come out if it's almost

Them because other ses that business are not protected.

As much by different convent like this.

Another companies look at the market for example, how many of the tech communities.

Get contract directly? You know I listened to obviously and they are merit.

But the very pea is that it exposes the under laying problem in the Nigeran business world.

We don't really have that convid. You can see somebody that the company more as had this.

Month out playing a title just because he has direct contacts with the president and so you know, for me, I think did has been gone?

I think the damage can still be controlled.

The latest new issues that different governments is making most to say to I think if you go beyond that, because that has happened to me is unbeat like what mini speakers are like. The other day issue is the business primating and it's difficult for businesses.

To get in that. I just imagine he went the Trump.

Visit the Kata and the area of cat was introducing Dangote to Trump.

I imagine what it must have been telling him.

And if you look at latest of this, because I've been influing Dankotte's news.

Around the world and it has really brought.

In so much positivity and in the common If you ask people, they will tell you that one of the game changers is, you know, the cross oversity and.

The fact that just capacity to the dollars.

Has improved despite the fact that the micros is still a problem.

So yes, I understand the fact that a.

Lot of people have said that eight hundred the Giant workers were dismissed.

We can't write that under and I feel the extreme was to move looked at. We can't like a variety.

But the issue, I feel the end game is for the fair governments to ensure that there's.

A system that will not make the Dankuote or the Giant interest.

Indispensable because they also put the factor how would you have for refineries that can't even match he caught out dankuoties capacity as we speak. Look at what this happened to ReViral recent there's no resolution. They had to acquire import and that is a state. We found a governor and giving the deputy governorship.

So we have so many problems.

Call you if you look at the ones that are coming in the president. We thought that they could say that they discount I was the one saying she put into infity because many players don't want to buy it. Now you're talking about spending billions of dollars to really so.

We really have problems. And I think for me that could really.

Has a lot to prove because he's going to list in the coming years.

He also has to pay creditors. People are not talking about that. He also got us.

You know, we also need to ask why did anyplaicit difforce, you know, inequity financing.

Why that's also you know, enough.

For Dan Coulty to be less interested in the Marcos and the niger But I think patrols him also because.

The man had said it that he didn't want to take Nigeria out of the dependency of the truth.

Let's just talk. Let's talk a see. So that got into the statement that mean that I'm more liquid than him or keep their money in Monocle, right, more money in Monaco. Do you think any Nigerian that is as liquid as Dangote that has money in Monaco, do you think anyone is going to come to Nigeria and do a steal plant or whatever. Do you think they will do that because Dangote has proven so Nigeria is it's

Right.

This Dangote refinery thing that the government waited too long to get involved because if you go on Bloomberg, now you see the Pengasine has shut down the refinery blah blah blah. Then they did the implication that it can be shut down. That's the news. It can be shut down. So it because it has a higher risk premium today than it had yesterday, because there's no way that there's

Whatever the issue that meant to face.

And I'm saying irrespective of what that got, it did or it is alleged to have done, they refiningly would never have been shot down. But it's been shut down now. So in the the guys that are doing risk premium for that, I will say it can be shut down. It can be shut down. And that's going to add if he business points to your risk premium, which is sad.

Can you also need to look at the fact that they also look at the.

Car and you can't complain that you have some very true and I think, as I said, has to say, you know, this is new, the ref is new.

They also away about interest because devices that any serus anerty provision will the interests around the world.

They're pretty much are not happy with Dougulty. Look at how Dunky is taking.

Marketshire from s fieries even the United States, you know, and the United States are kind of very people Dakulty, because has increased.

Buying capacity.

This is what the Trump was fighting for repairs that why are you buying Russians?

Why are you buy a Russian world?

Why can't you buy So let's let's let's let's play conspiracy theories. Let's you like to play conference theorists. America today is telling Russia, telling you e, you to leave Russia and go to other sources. Where's the only source that can go to in the world today? The aspect capacity Nigeria. Then suddenly unions go to that same Nigeri refinery and shut it down. Conflor you and I, but let's get Cyrul to help in here. Cyruls, are you doing, Cyrus? Guys gonna good? Yeah?

Goo giving everyone billion conversations and a lot of speakers have said a lot of things about this that quite interesting. And first and foremost, I think I said the problem that I still with the old thing, and are the old thing is being managed the way the angle finally, communication team, probably the intern HR team, you know, the way they dispelled the message or the.

The narrative and everything in between. I think a lot of things have been modeled up.

Yet there's a difference between Peggerson and peg They're not the same union. And interestingly, Peggerson has no time. I pushed Aguity to join their union. You could you could first check me, they have no time. I pushed at or even that they start to join their union, because this is a very dignified you know that, you know as a rock state in different companies, Fames of Greats marketed across the country, so they deal with shell, with the handle with water smeith, you know.

Linaing them and one thing.

I feel like probably because tangle Ta is new to the industry and they are trying to do their thing, which I agree with them.

Completely saying dignified they block this refinery, what dignify them, I'm getting, I'm.

Getting, I'm getting into that this is what I did. I said that I feel like.

That going into the industry, and he probably they don't really understand how the older sector uperate the other acceptor is very cool, interdependent. It's not a record that works in science. Even from the upstream to grilling disposition.

You still need the pipeline. It's still in distribution, you still need in the retail.

You're singing everybody in of so you cannot just say you want to do your own isolation. The reason why you paid least concerned about angle Tee, whether they wanted to dominate or they wanted to dissolve, not to let me let me go toward I need to disturb the distribution.

Distribution market, which is was the reserve to people in logistic It's.

A different market on its own, right, So they felt concided about it, that's okay, we want to step in and the open up.

But it was not Pedestine.

And the interesting thing about this was that when they fired those engineers, right and they've already made a statement that any of the employee could join the union, and the employee could be part of union, but they are going be forced to do that, or did the employee decide to go ahead with the delective of the the management and decide to join pedicine.

What they forget to know is that if you're winning it, finally you need the pipelines, you need the l eenies, you need, you.

Need, you need the the plan from every other stakeholder involved to ensure that you're you're finally you're quitted and tradition are stick in this in all of these all all.

Of these operators. So what we have spoken would have happened.

Shut it down?

I don't know, absolutely not, absolutely not, but I feel like what I feel could have happened. I said the problem was that they do not and do the routing. Well, there is nothing wrong with speaking to your staff and you know, telling them, in strutting them not to join.

The union, and even giving them.

Incentives not to do so. It's just it's just the commercial as opposed to uting. Like I said, person has not But in any time I pushed to join your union, they've seen down, got put commissioning, commissioning, you know, and.

They're not going for the first one year.

They've never had one point to join their union, probably indoor, but that there's nothing in open that we know about.

So these ones seem as though the the the whately.

Finally is discriminating against anyone who decided to be part of union. And there's nothing wrong as an employee journey a union. You can decide today that you want to be part of if you're working.

For let's say.

Education institutional idea, a battle teacher union, nobody's.

Going to stop you from doing that. So But and if you.

Fire somebody because they journey union and it's an illegal thing to do, it is on consumer to discriminate some because they're part of a union.

You can find them or you find and that's why they they will tell the final compression thing. I'm not even goody not to say that. Why to fire those people.

They cannot say that because when you say that, you have an illegal issue that can put you in a lawsuits for a long time. So for me, I feel like they could have handled differently. They could have incentified their staff not to journey union in in any way then they know and to be honest, Acou, there is no way a person who wants to start protect and will you find it because the fathers have.

Members in order.

The financis because pipeline infanstation Nigelia, you know, a gas Plantermina plus Nigelia.

The work with the work with NDLE, they work with.

The work finally, Cyrus, you say this, but the fact is that the Yeah, but right now their trucks were parted blocking thegle To refinery. You say this, but they did subbortage the refinery. It's not speculation. They did subbortage.

They issued state spaced that the the finance issue in.

State and called back the employees that because calor with the music, because they decided to.

Join the Biggerson union, that that is what they called.

For under no no, no, sir, Cyrus. If they called they called for that and then they went ahead to see the gas the gas five shout to be turned up and then they block depends.

To a poly couldn't involve to be blocked.

Why should they say that, that's the point. Why should they say that? They cannot say that, Cyrus, they are an essential service. Essential service cannot go on strike. It doesn't matter, Cyrus. They cannot go on strike.

They cannot.

So are you saying that you army can say because I'm not opening scenario, I'm gonna go and strike, because because because they have they can't. Police can't go and strike. Essential services cannot go on strike. It is you can't say they can go on I must say whether they're right or wrong. I'm saying they cannot go on strike because they are essential services, they can't go and strike.

But no all.

For example, if they're essential, they cannot go on strike. Cyrus. Before it doesn't mean before it was right. I'm saying that the essential services cannot go on strike. That's the point I'm making.

I think, and I think with the idea is that people don't understand what with is critical like for example, you don't know they don't want me.

I just want to look at if you look at.

The French for example, whether you protested and everything, you don't say anything about.

Local because most of the one nucle energy and even riven money to work in that institute.

You must be a friend.

You don't allow for us to critical they are certain things is international. So the problem we have been in that system. That's what I said. We also have a pritical issue is that we not the it is critical, like I know what can be saying, but do you from your.

So just double the pet issues bringing out so many of the issues.

And I've always said it before that what is the advantage of visiting a business in the stock.

Markets that opposes books to show that to the public and you have a private person.

The advantage it was that in Lettin you don't see that gym, you don't see that in Japans that in China, China the companies idle. So the problem I have here is that you don't have that. It's not in differentized. So what I is right you can.

Said about essential economic settles us to do with the government what you mentioned in.

Military it's a government or if nial label comes for example, decide to go finding those two actions.

They can't say that the media it will stop working, right and for example, even the healthcare of the government work not If you're talking about pipe does an anngier they can easily, but it can usually not.

Show up at work the next day.

If you're talking.

About about.

Me, if you're talking about energy plans, workers gets.

Not show up at the work the next day. It's not that it's not that computated.

It's not that.

That would issue. I think that was excluenced. I mean take thinking trying to.

Say, okay, where does that youreform or you understand over everything.

All right, And so you're saying that if there's an issue, it could go and strike.

If there's a course, you know what the country use you.

Know, and public it is for example like the issue FASI for example, they want to counsel because the countries to they want to counsel to publicities to see.

And the people are saying no, they don't want that.

That's what does tell the effect of just looking off in the economy.

Now they're tellingly that now because we are.

In an issue, Piplane or Beatles can look where companies energy really are distributed.

That this is this is an economy where where the DSS is going after Twitter because of a post made by against the president. What I'm saying is simple, if they decided to come to work, they're all falsifed with malaria. No problem, it's malaria. But if they have a meeting and at that meeting they agree that all of them will not come to work because they want to pressurize the management of a company to do something, it is illegal.

You don't do that.

That's why you have the law. It clearly states the processes. You give notice, you go for AIP industrial court, beef, or you can even go on to strike. That's the reason why they have those stop gates there. It doesn't matter if you are right. It doesn't matter if you are wrong. Essential services cannot waker. I agree together and go and strike. It doesn't work that way, sir. I'm not saying whether I right or wrong. I agree with to the point that that Dangote will been clear their

Is the problem. Allow we inherited from the podcast, like I.

Said, an economic discussion.

We like extremism and we like this fight take. We feel that was we must use our last card, even as the slightest opportunity. I think it's an opening. It's because even look as we have example, that's the smallest way you can be said to the wean for the glass card that we call the person's head.

It's a weekend. Now, this is it's a beautiful like a week a week and you're shotting down the largest refinery in ninety and maybe sometimes come forward the week let's science. Do you know what the same each.

By saying I'm completely that they both side.

They impose and extremities in the situation that could have been set to you know, behy closed doors I don't see any reason.

Why, for example, that would tell he find and he would fire local engineers. By the way, they quick commissioning. Many of them were there because they needed to find against biggest for the first time. And and these guys are midlevel workers and some of them are people have spoken to me directly and they told me that they did not see it coming. And what the re find a statement that they believe was that they.

Want to sabble toad.

Then finally, I want to score to your operation, which is not not to I think these are extremities that could have been avoided and this could have been said to it. I feel like there's no in Nigeria. There's no free job. You know, there's no job. So for someone to wake up a family of two days birdmen of his was to be couped that on jobs only nine years, this are going to be absorbing the economy also have an economy unlikely.

I think you said I agree with you completely that it's an extreme measure.

But like I said, postally, just trying to get from the government and from that the finance to instate those guys back.

And I want to believe that if it's resolved.

Those engineers are, you know, state dad back to the the finances so they can have a job back.

What are your first round? Yes, thank you so much, sir, your first round, pitcher, go for it. Let's just adult. Sorry trying to speak. I apologize and little I'm just do fast pitch, go for it and just make sure everyone is going.

To be believe I'm list. Some pointed the network showing off.

I don't know.

I'm actually I want so those like I sum you know the line of work I do.

So I'm actually I'm naturally not going to say a whole lot of things.

Yeah, personally, just I read your d I know where you're coming from my head.

Yeah, so I'm definitely going to be a bit restricted in things I said, but I would never get to set the record straight.

So for me.

Number one, we spoke about the issue of peers shutting down the pipeline.

I think it does the next three measure because if it treated, the impact is going to happen.

You know that.

Finally, they don't go there. If it's not something It's not like your car. You can easily just put in a key and start it off. If you ever shut it down, you might end up spending the next three months trying to start it off.

You can imagine what it means like three months trying to start and the really is that the rule of complex units like a single unit. They might maybe in truth just to me just trying to ramp it off, and it works in.

Sequence, like for you to start true might even be in the next three months because because the reason is that because A and B there are supposed to be least are not yet up. So those thing happens in sequences, and that is why it's more like a continuous process. So they don't even allow it to show them in the first place. So as it is like they can even run for the next thirty years without going down, so it is better for them that way, better than shocking down.

So it's a very very serious it should be limited to I think the government needs me to.

Weigh, but for me, I just feel that dangle they themselves, the management shouldn't shouldn't have probably allowed this issue to get to this extent state. I think it's something that maybe the management need to learn from this. Number one things they need to work on this work as well.

Off. I'm sure a lot of people doesn't even know what it looks like.

It's certain for me believe that at least when like two people like maybe someone like myself, I'm working and I say another person that I feel that I'm better than knowledge wise these skills the better skills. Like at the end of the day you find out that these people would your office is better than your own, your sire just being treated like a safe worth nothing, but

You'll be asking yourself, am I being a slavey or something?

I think that's exactly what if the on day they sublet to do what they're supposed to.

I don't think any of the stuff. If you want to go join the form of linium just the basic sue today.

So for me, I just feel that they it's something they need to sit down the beat, go back to the board, are ment of certain things.

I don't think that you acting so much.

So some of this is really all human beings. So when they look at their counterparts working in a similar environment and seeing what comes out of them and probably see how their life face, well you find out everything Christ is.

The fabily they troubling needed to fit.

Why they find out that somebody may be cold, and they even things that they use begin to answers.

Say why am I even there?

Maybe they should have lady for them just to read maybe if probably they could read alone.

So it happens a lot that I wuld experienced a.

Couple of products sometimes just it's such an environment. And so that it came to literally expressed and saying if you do number, why you're going to be victimized, face some sort of assumption or even sack just because.

You speak of so something.

Every Way, everybody's likely scared to say something, even to discuss what they're going through outside with anybody, because once you have been noted that you have the one that is in might end up.

Even like what they're going to so saying that that happened. So for me, I think organizations like that they leave me to see stuff.

Well, for some people might not feelings alone, but that little difference actually they might not be an okay pays just like this estandish but actually something if somebody.

Maybe at the end of the day, my hands and I still have maybe little, I think you might worry less. So I don't know.

They let things, but let them things honestly speaking, right, what are the expatriates doing there? I think some of the Nigerians can do. Is it like learnything but working?

What are you doing there?

If you can be very very honest?

Okay, okay, okay, I want I want to walk there. Yeah, no longer than what I want to walk there. With the construction on the guys, my area was instrument and control.

Personally, I have It's people are drinking It's nan and they are pretty dream well.

I trained eight engineers there.

They came in the actually university graduates without much like an experience some of us who were brought in from the fame fields.

For me, I left my phone. They're actually pushing lade me an offer. I went there, so I wasn't really like the dire star. I was more like a professional coming in there. So what were you This is that opportunity see what's going on there to start.

Training our state, which I know that was why they haven't badly trainees.

So those graduate trainees were attached to you, so we were more like a visor. They attached to you do things from there, were trying to train. So at some point of this show was like those best pattery. Some of them coming they more.

Like even like like for me in my own team, I was more like the head of the thing there.

How would they spatrate everybody? Give the direction?

But at some point to find out it's more like a parents. So they have their own people who bring us what are is that they.

Tend to make it impossible for our guys there to lay like I'm trying trying to tell you.

A practical experience.

So in this very more because probably they might alclumpire you in some ways, maybe because of the hierarchy of how things works. So some of us because of maybe we have no way to lose I'm coming from.

How some of us skinning there, we are not of any quit because even evening, I can work up to more.

Walking and I can leave.

I want to why why do they have them again? I'm asking again, are they technical? People are training? The people go today with their finders to work. Just want to just get to the personal.

Okay, okay, come to be fair to you, to be fair to they.

Okay, some of them are actually hiding technical both at long and long. They're just more like the ground level trying equally trying to learn. The prople of them are trying to learn on the job there, so it's more like at the same part with our people. I'm half from those of managers, the managers of this, this provice of this those are one actually say, oh, these are highly skilled in level.

How people are calling at the same level. But it's see most of those of those I think that some of them doesn't even know what this thing is?

Where? Where?

Where?

Where did they?

I don't know, Honestly, I don't know.

Like I told you now where I was see I knew people doing among those Patrick when they can do more like before you spend two three four loans here with the becomes go their length.

But initially when they confer that they don't know, can differciate it.

From being they tend to learn from there, and you know that they learn, they tend to bring more people of the old.

People there to learn from them.

But when that starts up, we see them trying to shield our people from into trying to learn more.

That's how all started happening.

So it's more like, okay, you have feelings Indians, kay, once one of dosing, the tend to lend no exactly what's going on teaching you will finding out to make sure that if an Asian guy is dead, like for example, you want to create we want to do this configurution.

They just make it in such a way a little bit more impossible for a guy need to follow up like you.

No, No, okay, interesting, I hear you. Interesting. Thanks for much for the for.

I believe will be allowed to go down for any reason. So it's some putting that.

All of them can sit down and work up. Just yeah, the Minister of Finals has pleased a very very lengthy statements. Minister of Finance. Here are still the United the crude for Narra is still going on and they're also talking with the Pangasen and the Dogot team. There will be no issues with you with outage of few products. So the feral mistry of enounces on it, the pharragment is on it, so hopefully this will be resolved. If you

I'm finding a b from you can hear me?

I can, sir, I can, Okay, So.

Thank you for the space.

I've listened to both sides, and I've tried to understand both sides.

I get the both sides.

Will they have a case for their actions and good will speak against fenal stuff by your fan and those against actions taken by the unions. We can talk for hours and I feel like every side, like feel like it makes sense. So first, there's just some misconcepts, misconceptions in the conversation that I just want to first clarify for me, in my experience, child.

Does not exist to.

Protect the interests and stuff HI is to protect the interests of the company, whatever company, So we parentully expect HR being proactive in looking after the interests of the Dongte stuff.

For the second part is.

I think the speaker earlier winning I think was her name was not happy with the way he runs his refinery, and I get the last peaker also it is not happy about that. But at the end of ready, no one is supposed to work as is zero some game this refinery, like you've kept on saying, it's critical to the Enjurians, So as a zero game, there was some game when injurians are the main consideration. This if I can't stop so no one is supposed to work, you can if you think he's not running his refine, me

A rightful place or is or is this also like something that's that.

Is not possible at this time? Then the last thing?

Sorry, you can answer when I still say the last thing, because that would be my last contribution. I believe that unions should not have executive power. I don't think anybody order than sin book should have the power to shot over our pipe and slop of our electicity of nobody.

And the reason why the.

Executive even has that power is because there are others types of government, legislative and the judiciary.

That can't check his power.

There's no way that union can wake up in the morning and just see shot off the energy sector, like it doesn't make sense for me. For me, honestly, I read the last letter from Donte where it described it as a terrorist act and that's my perception of it as well. That's this is econonomic terrorism, Like how do you wake up in the morning and assume the power of the executive power to put so many people on as such distress for employee benefits come on.

So that's about it for me.

Yeah, I think there's a lot going on that will never ever know from a space or from student by two parts of that world. But I think the issue is this right, there were issues men that go say internally, and I think the staff wanted to have a TED party with quote unquote power to come on your side. Yes, you can have your internal union board. If come the

What is that?

The multivitamins are good for you, but you're going to shoot you with the gun. It's a different topic entirely. So they could have negotiated with that. Everything knows that they're powerful union. They like someone has said, they control pipeline, they control this, they control that. So negotiate for a put of strength and say, hey, this is what your employees have said, can you do this for them?

And all that.

But once you go in there, look at the language they're using. We're going to do this, We're going to do that. Then they actually go and say, hey, shut down the oil pipelines. Now what they've revealed is that it is possible to shut down the oil pipeline. That's what they've rebuilt out and into the open. So it's just the man i as we say, the manner of approach of the tanker thing that's I think is where

Brian, Yeah, yeah, I'm good, yes, right yeah.

I think if if held on what I wanted to to talk on, I think, to me, you really needs a consensus. We we we have to find a way for elite to agree that this is where the country will go and these are no good areas because these are the.

Things that will protect investments like this.

Twenty billion dollars is not a simple amount of money to particular country.

And two years to the start of the project, we're having issues like this.

I believe what I've seen missing in this Pegerson And finally, older these are CEO.

Management people with.

Yest of experience.

I told her I would.

See emotional intelligence in play, you know, engagement happening, kind of regulating themselves and you know we need to discuss ABCD but we didn't fort issues.

Of two hours.

What do I see?

I lost you.

I'm growing up within the country that there are ways to solve problems, not only these.

Fire And.

Lastly, I think diesel finery is a big refinery. It only started two years ago. That I believe that soors have standards, but we don't expect them massive refinery like places within two.

Years to be at the level of companies that.

Have been in existence in that sector for.

Forty sixty sixty eighty years.

So possible.

So I think there should have.

Been some kind of I had a speaker see ten years kind of protection for such investments which will have a rebisdom to learn from their mistakes and also improve their systems and improve their standards within that period at least ten such tandars.

It is good to make mistakes, learn from them and get improved them.

But all I'm saying is fire and brigade this union today, this problem after tomorrow.

This investment really needs to be kind of a start of Nigeria's development.

We need more people to say, Okay, if this guy can do this, we can do it, and people should not be afraid to do it.

But if we're doing fighting over.

Multimall things and mult small issues, who else will bring.

His investment to this country if we're moving like that.

So I think we really need to have an a different approach to the way we do things and to really our word process.

Everything is not about fight or it's our yea, you're down, round down. That's not the way life is. So we just have to improve the way we do things. So thank you so much.

Appreciate your comments, sir. That was worth taking. I imagine while you've got to Brian, thank you so much. I have a dream work. I am a dream work. Please go ahead a lot daily on Lami day, all lot daily on Lammi Day.

I thank you. I love that.

I do you want to go ahead? The love that can go ahead, You go ahead, sir, Okay, yes, thank you very much.

Okay, Now, but I will say that both Dangloe and they want the Panhassen and government are all at fault.

Yes, we've not had the peaks from everybody. Everybody.

This is they did not they did not fire these guys because the joint gion.

Let's believe them.

Right in the communities, you will find out we see the truth. Penthass is probably be fired because of.

The joint the union. Let's believe that we have to prove right.

And I think that the issue is we want to trust issues from Dango side. I'm from Penas because I worked in travers for like six years from twenty three two thousand two, as a very young boy two thousand and eight. Right, we found ourselves as a contract staff. Right, I was shaven several sets as contracts. Right, we send a very unfortunate contract.

Right, the contact is.

Play like four hundred.

Well as.

At the end of the day, we ended hundred.

Two hundreds all the things we want, Right, we made so much progress as individuals. Then where we joined union. All your sor was that you know it's going to some money in our hands. Right, the so called leaders of those unions in our company spend time in legos at legos when because at the months spend money and all that progress.

So I don't trust for this. You knows what that doesn't take away I needed right, everybody dropped the board in the governments. And I would gu say that if it was during.

Barri's time, this challenge is on his own necessary he should be protected.

But yes he also should be also as well. He has not done. He has not This is his first attempt oil and gas. Right, so a lot of pasily not know. Do you understand?

And if I also believe that if done, God's playing well, if he had better wellfare his staff, no body will want to join union.

If everything is going on well, people don't want to join union. So what is a fair wage for someone in that industry? Understand? Can't tell me that? Accuse you to in that drivers out to make three times four times anymore.

Began gas truck truck drivers as specialists three times me always about to to fifty thousand.

I own truck years ago.

They listen those guys as at that time I can't deep a driver.

I would look from our port to cany we.

Know is allow us three thousand, that is, allow us to go.

To came and come back. I'm talking about two years ago. If me or in the informatic.

Drivers in Trump drivers within as much as four.

Five hundred thousand, while you.

I said any more than that we talk about I don't want I don't want to believe that in that's the fascility that issue.

But we see that drivers and the drivers were keepd with. Once we see all that, then I keep it. I didn't change. So the issues, yes, we cannot shot that. We cannot say because you have done this, then everything he does is right.

So everyone needs to see down and that this issue the government, this government has been so responsible. Don't don't want to this guy, I know he comes out of the truth is I don't see that it is.

Government that said about that. How can the government.

Official comment with that, with the products are not are not got to stand that the government official and he still has his job. How can he be fighting to get it just to get to this point?

And Begger said, okay, what if that said, look he's not gonna doing. What is I gont going to do?

It's got to shut down his reprival forms.

What would they do?

You don't You're not started at all, and you're shotting me down to shot down everything you know?

Are you? Are you not going to? Is this is your really? This is your best guard? And I don't think it is necessary. I mean, the.

Autist are all right, they should sit down and have a conversation.

But what I know is that there is trust.

Issues from all sides and the many peoples who are experienced, you shouldn't be doing this at this time. If they are really experts, were trained blah blah blah.

It shouldn't be building like.

You.

You are route. You can't be threating people like this, right?

Are they concerned about the only new level stuff or they're concerned about on the you be part of Bengas.

I commonly get the sentiment. I think that there was too side. I think we're coming to a good, good conclusion and there are two sides today and I'm both are all wrong and saying they should go and seek, you know, forgiveness all day. They got a day.

Thank you very much, good gay.

So to your first you asked the question. On the other time set, you asked, why are the Indians? Yes, patrially, but the working at the refinery. Believe, yes, I believe it's because of the influence of the Vice resident.

That's the Dekmar Edwin. That's just nobody. But what is there?

We know, we know he's India, but what they there like they just can't.

Be there at his influence, you know, probably he needs He has people at BA in India that I want to hear a chance and things. I believe he influenced. I believe that his only influence.

Okay, I got a DM. Somebody is saying that I also work in Dangote, and yes, they are Indians there, and he says that they will learn faster and are doing the job faster. That's what this guy is sending me a d M now. And I understand what you're saying that because in the VP is India and he's brought some people there, remember, and I just work trained in India. Indians also built the refinery. The Indian Us build the refinery also. We just can't say it's because he wants to bring these people.

They built it.

Go ahead on there.

As in fact.

Patrick, he was saying that yeah, maybe maybe this one's will go to Katar But I think the point that we just can simply just say the VP is Indian, so he brought Indians. Indians build the place, and you know, I forget the refinery. If you want to build a house and legos today? Who does your pop? Let's be honest, who does your pop today? Just be honest? Who does your leg?

Yeah?

Because we all have all this like, well that's we we have that skill gaping nights for real, not the engineers that I go to the b C, but those guys I get their hands dirty.

We haven't looking organizers. We don't have that skill and that skill level and night is lacking. We have pure big guys. Real, if you want to do that, shall walk? Who do you call? Do you tell me? Don't you see there? So we've left that that education to life follow and I think we're paying for it because why would they would they import Indians if Nigeria's could do the job, honestly, not honest? Do you think they really

So, I mean you're trying to do understand that.

When he started doing the final I was so si appele about it because indeed a good development.

And imagine that they go going down. Do you know what do you know what it means to to the economy.

Actually you said something like that, and then even achieve in our one the brids, you will forget that achievement, the one chillion dollars a colony. If dangled they goes down, it will be will be active ato. And then he said about that would have sat before that he will.

Like list is refinery, jurance.

Chest, so all this will still need dangled, like you all said.

So another thing is that I don't want to be biased about I understand what about the Indians baness and then this chariness.

See these people are put we don't need if we need development, not okay, okay, sorry, I I these people need.

Maybe if there's a way they can be trained professionally whereby they will know how to relate to the durance is I believe it's just money. Probably maybe Dangled is not getting enough information or I put it or the right information to help in the right decision. Okay, I just believe Urias work has been a need need they need they need good wealth here too.

Yeah, because you know, you know, if just that's I know, if we can go let me use slang, you know, even Ina, we have words that we call Cora. You know, Cora, you know, so we know these things and so, but it just I don't know. I don't want to go there because it's recorded and all that. Ah, jeez, General, please go ahead, General, guys, we've got a few time to round up. I think we had a very very

Thank you very much, Calum. And it is one thing I'm happy about the way going to everyone as well. Sorry I didn't start that way. If there's one thing I'm happy with about this space is that new Carlo I beginning to take. Sorry, and this is more attack. You know, I followed the conversations as I saw your opinion that you expressed them. But please, I don't know, you don't understand me. But the fact is that you are beginning to see that this is the wider issue now.

When they started, because I have worked in public.

Sector, private sector in time junior team, and when they started.

I'm really said as a liberal relations issue.

Right, and the problems this this got deeper because trust, you know, trust is the currency in itself and in Nigeria there.

Seems to be a lack of trust among many.

Nigerians and industry players for Dangotism about Dangotists motives.

So these whole thing that the leader and the run up to this whole.

Situation, there was the new paying issue right, because of the trucks Dugard they had you know, acquired and was bringing in and you know, and you would agree that a lot of the Opian guys argued that Dangwade was taken over another industry even though related to his refinding, but he was kind of stepping into their own spece.

So that is one issue.

The other thing is that we knew capitalist captaliesn't have the excessive pun checked right.

And I also agree that Dangote is very strategic to Nigeria.

In fact, like I said, I had put in one of my twits, I said that Dango should be in national security assets. Their finally should be national secretary. It's not just the matter of national importance. It should be a national security that should be surveilers, that should be protection for thats for the refinery because it is very important. Footler has long time economica developments. However, unions are needed.

To moderate capitalism in a way, and that's what they all do now.

On the Plangerson issue, Issu if you if you're understand playing Gerson the way I think from what I've seen, these are senior staff.

Most of these guys are from the oil and gas set. The winnowing manager. They are okay, resably ok right.

Their leaderships may have issues, but in generality, the people are ok.

They're blocking.

That was excessive, that wasted. I agree that that was excessive. Right. However, right you all you should also agree.

That sucking for eight hundred or other hundred staff and one swoop was also excessive.

I agree, I agree two wrongs.

Two wrongs don't make it right. And unfortunately, you know it drew first blood when he sacked those people. Well understand, he drew first blow where his saccident. Now, if you tie the fact that there.

Is distrust for Dangote being from his ancestors before the answers, because the people feel his monopolice and all that, If you're tied the fact that there is distrust for him, you can understand why there's.

A reaction to what he had, what he's trying to do. And I think that's what's happened.

So they take aways because I think when this largely comes to understanding issues, take away that dang needs to look back at his PRT.

And see he's doing a lot of work lately, and.

I recognize that trying to show people that, look, I'm not trying to be a monopolie, because I said at that time it's really frustrating for him.

There was the time the US governmental released the statement that his business.

Model was Immnigard to Andreia school.

If I'm not mistaken, right, So I think he's really a lot of work to show that he is not.

Trying to be a monopolie.

It's only afrocentric trying to you know, pioneer African developments and all that, and that is very commendable.

And that is why we must all stand by him.

However, in the existing they said that a rat will not go and bite the relative and eat relatives.

Doctors back and then the letters deliberately going to lose their rat fire. So when we when people when they are when there.

Are missteps or people feel that they are missteps, there should be structures that are sailable right to call things back to order to sort of you know, alwayshape the systems.

Now, last, let me say one then if you a lot of things happen in Nigeria, a lot of the problems, you see that it boths down to our need issues as a country.

These things are permitting each and every sphere of our existence our collective resistance as a country, whether in unions, health care, education, whatever it is, the failings of our government and everything is permitted.

What do we need to do.

We need to begin to train leadership and we need to we need to begin to train people right to mentor people like people like I come for instance, salute to you. You have a strong platform. They're very brilliant person.

The idea that stell and a stellar and I follow you, and I follow you because I get a lot of value.

From what you say.

Right, But to whom much is given, much is expected. People follow you because they respect what you say, well.

What you say also ships, thinking, ships, mentality, ships, you know a lot of stuff.

So you are in any position to also mental people and you do that very well.

You know, you'll teach about economics and all that, irrespectable of all the abuse and everything you get.

As a little for that. So generally, like I said to conclude, we have the actually problems. Unions have leadership problems as well.

However, training and mentoring over years, we can e adicate. We can you know, all the set that of the people who are given a lot missions to go out and maybe we can have a better space in general.

Thank you, all right, we'll take you. Thank you so much. Hopping here real quick. General, thank you so much.

All right, thank you mister Calu.

So, I just came into correct the impression regarding worlders that you mentioned.

We have a lot of wilders.

We have lots of training program if you're training institut, they have general welding programmed that they trail a lot of people.

That is general.

One is Ninemons and there is all any welding fabrication chen the welding of fabrication. And if you go to reduce state.

Aquitement state they have more than four.

That I know, at least four that I know well being fabrication training program well established, so educed it there is and it's not that they are being.

I don't know if they after I look for Nagilance.

Even when they did the construction of beet chemical, NA generality not.

Have enough stuff. But what did they picked Nagela?

What they expected that the white people that they brought they were not even Indians. They brought people from France, Germany, America.

And places and they packed Nagelian and within three.

Months always MOSTNA generals were able to learn and be expired being able to do the job.

I don't know why Indians are still there, because Nigeans are not stupid. I've been around Nigeria. I was born and raised in Nigeria, so I know Nigelans are not to put. If you put langurary, you would train and attapt first. And another thing is the payment nagera in work. I should be paid well. Nigerian worka should be respected and treated with God courtesy. And we should not say because dan Coute is doing something that an MPCI destroyed, that we should allow.

Him to tell us not really treating them well.

None of their industry standard international We speak about international standard in many things, but when it comes to paying like during international standard which international witch that at.

Least on the we we want to drive that to the bottom part. No, Nageli must be paid well. How can an engineer working.

All said and not be able to you know, not paid according to the standard and not it's not going to be able to pay a vacation even within in Africa.

No, which has to reflect including safety and every other thing.

So then mister Carlo might want to you know, you know, anytime you speak on a giant issue. We have to also speak on the respect for Nagerian workers, including salary and the good working condition.

Thank you all right, PRETI, I love that. Thank you so much for let's know that we have all these workers around and all that okly technologies. You have the floor, sir. Thank you Ramsey that clarification that you gave.

Thank you for handing the micro to me. So where I want to address a couple of issues where I want.

To start this.

First of all, the shutting down of Dangote refinery and disconnecting of stopping the floor of their gus the gas to the refinery is illegal and it's not something that shouldn't have happened. The reason why I said so, even the PENGA sent themselves, there was no I don't see it against any evidence that they followed the procedure of the labor unions in terms of the rules of engagement of you know, trying to call dog that attention to whatever.

There's their procedures before you get to strike. Strike is always the last resort.

If you look at Nanjieian Medical Association as there's.

The way they go.

Conspect, they don't just company there strike. There's always a process. So I didn't see that process being full of this. We started hearing this whole like a week ago, a week less than a week ago. And here we are shut down, stop flow of gus. That's that's wrong now. Secondly, or the dangledet or on the dangledere side to dangle there has also we can't take some schemiscies or breaking here and now to start with, we should first of

But have we tried to in the last one and half years look at the books of Tang with it.

I don't know whether he has put his financial statement in public and all of that. So because if you're if you're alf of a company, you should your primary objective is let my company sor see it's my complete profitable this while I'm drawing is it?

Where is it being drawn from this company? Are they in a good financial.

Position for me to first form continuously join my current.

Salary and non big demands for a higher salary. We all walk if you see.

Let's look at the banking industry in Nigia as an example. It's unbanded industry. It's an indorstede that has so much strike that it be gave me a more for almost every other industry. Who is talking about strike in the banking industries to do or.

Whether you belong to you know or you don't belong to you you know?

They're about twenty four twenty five banks in Nigeria today. Who is talking about stride? It's only one bank. I don't know what I should meant mentioned their name. It's only one bank that I know that that that's that they're saf joining union, you know, and they're allowed to at the point of your employment, they will actually you want to be part of union if you want to say yes, it's often that they will put they will sign you on and the union will be the debuty every month.

For their for their labies or what their union fee.

Probably the bank it is over one hundred years, so they are members of PUC. It's over one hundred year plus bank about yet, so that is it so and because there because that president has been there, the bank could would no longer to copy.

So they are out with even and they can.

But the current new generational bank the tony lose did you move yours bank?

Yeah?

Starting like you're there because as as a banker, you even you are so treated well, you know, if you're.

Not happy with where you are, you have the next band to go to.

It starts sending us around before you know you starts your interview before you know you larn the land the job. Now they're also a free tech that it's now directly you know, putting bankers you know from the commercial banks, you know, so dog they shoot.

Unfortunately, the the.

The referral industry which is downstream, has regulator. So it's for the revelator to see how they nunderstand that that is the industry bring more finalities on board so that there will be, they will become from some sort of competition, not just for the defining business, but for evil for employees. If I know that bangle taste not doing the world, I'll go to who are finite?

Our go to?

What has me? Our? Go to? Our? Go to who you know?

There are places so and that is what creates growth and depends.

You know, employee benefits in an industry.

Right, So let's for me, let's cut down with this from slack. Let's ask about how well is he doing the salaries that we are good We are demanding him to pay and he pays or does he need to borrow.

Money or go and deep money?

Depends in these cements his men business to sustain very finite. If you're working for a company, you need to be You need to also be compassionate. You need to make sure that we pray for that company to succeed so that some of the demands that you are making can be tradied and not just to sit down and.

Be making a national demands.

You don't care whether you don't care whether your company is profitable or not. All you want is just to draw the salary. So the point I'm making is less languages from slack also has a job