Welcome to The Washington State hiking podcast. I'm your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming along with my part time co host guidebook author Craig Romano, we provide practical and timely, seasonal hiking advice for hikers, trail runners and potential hikers and trail runners of all skill and ability levels that is helpful, accurate, fun and inclusive. We would love to hear from you, our listeners the second link in the show notes, right below the tip jar hint. Hint is our voice memo
link. Please leave us a voice memo with your question, and we will answer it in a future episode. All right, welcome back to the Washington State hiking podcast, and today, I am going to be interviewing Craig about getting started with trail running. So I am not a trail runner, but there are a lot of people who either start with running or start with hiking and then get into trail running, so we're gonna hear a bit from Craig about his advice for getting started as a trail runner. So
I absolutely love trail running, and I think I spend more time running than I do hiking. Now it's also, if you ever wondering how I'm able to produce at least a book a year, stuff. I mean, I've got to move fast. Yes, imagine that first, you know, I've been a road runner. I started, I've been running. I ran in high school, you know, and I've been kind of, yeah, I grew up during, during the running boom and, you know, and running goes in these waves, and we are definitely in a trail
running boom, right now? Yes, sure, absolutely. But I so I've been a road runner for a long time, but the idea in a hiker for almost equally as long, and the idea of running on trails, I'll never forget. It was sometime in the early 80s when I saw this group of trail runners just prancing through the White Mountain National Forest and like these guys are crazy. I
don't understand. It doesn't look fun, isn't and the thing is, I've obviously changed my mind over the years, and in a nutshell, trail running really is, well to me, man, it's fast hiking, it's going light. And I also have to back up when I talk about trail running, there's two really, we got to break it down into two camps. There's trail running, which is just basically running on trails, and then there's Ultra trail running, which, which is what I also running really far, very far,
running far. And basically an ultra, what is an ultra? It's, it's basically defined as anything beyond a marathon. And a marathon is 26 you know, point two miles, 42 kilometers. So I run 50k runs on a regular basis. I just did one not that long ago. I ran my first 100k i training for another 100k and I'm even looking beyond that. So this is so you can still be a trail runner and just do three or four miles on a trail so I
got it back up. So there's two different ways of looking at a trail running, or whether you're Ultra Trail running or trail running, Yep,
cool. Okay, so I'd love to hear like, when, how long ago did you start putting these two things together and why? And then we'll get into some other things.
So I dabble a little bit with trail running, and I always would run like urban trails. So I thought, you know, and the thing is, I always this is kind of funny, because we talked about this on a podcast about the 10 essentials and everything, and I thought, you can't possibly go into the backcountry without carrying all
this gear. So I remember the first time I went on a real backcountry I almost felt like, oh my god, I'm violating all the rules, because I'm not carrying all this stuff, and maybe I should. So it's interesting the mindset, because you have to retrain you, if you if you've been a hardcore hiker all this time, because one of the things to be, and if you're a runner, to the same thing, you've got, you've got to think differently. You've got to start thinking you
want to move fast. That's the main thing, whether you're just doing five miles or 50 miles, you're moving faster, yeah, and to move faster, you need to be carrying a lighter load, so you can't carry a lot of the gear. So what's happened in the last, you know, 20 years? I mean, it's amazing amount of gear that's come out that caters to this again, when, when I when trail running was first, you know,
becoming a thing. Yeah, the packs were awful, the hydration, the stuff that you you can look at now, is going to make it's going to be so much more comforting to wear the stuff in the lightweight so that's, that's a lot of it, but I generally, I look at it as a fast hike. And the other thing I should tell even when I'm going out, I'm going to do a 30 mile day. I'm not running the entire thing. So it's not, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna walk the
steep parts. You know? Another thing too, is because I want people say you can't possibly enjoy something when you're moving that. Well, that's wrong. One of my favorite places for for trail running I've gone in a couple times is image Lake, and that's in Glacier peak for. CLAY should be glad. It's an amazing place. It's a 32 mile trip, round trip to get in there. But the first 10 miles, it's you're only climbing 1000 feet. Throw on this beautiful, groomed trail I run that. I run that part. You
get that done. You know? Why backpack it all that? I mean, just get it done. Yeah. And then yeah, start the long, hard climb to get to the lake. And then I'm at the most beautiful part of the hike. Well, why do I want to run through that? I want to enjoy that. So I'll hike through that. And then when I'm done, I'm gonna run out, you know. So, so that's so it allows me to get into a lot of these places
carrying light gear. But then once I get there, it's not uncommon for me to do a 30 mile day and still have an hour nap, you know, a meeting. Because people think like all you're doing is moving. It's like, No, I'm moving a lot when I am, but then I'm, you know, taking my time. Yeah, that said it's a long time on the trail, though. So I'm gonna go sunrise to sunset in a lot of these things,
right? So that's the other thing that's gonna be the big, I think the biggest thing you know, is you're going lightweight and conditioning yourself to be on your feet for a long time. And that's, that's a break. So if you're thinking about getting into trail running and getting quite what brought me finally into it, you know, I dabbled it a little. It wasn't it was shortly I used to write for a running magazine. We started noticing that trail running was
becoming huge. I started thinking, you know, I'm a hardcore hiker. I run. I do marathons, yeah. Why am I not into this? You know, yeah. And I had a 50th birthday that was looking at me, and I thought, you know, it's time to start thinking about this. And part of the challenge I want to do, it was to run. I go from zero to 50. I had never done a 50k and I decided I'm gonna do a 50 mile
run for my 50th birthday. And it wasn't, and it was the White River at Mount Rainier, which is, you know, 9000 vertical and everything with a time limit and all that. And I trained, and I trained by doing my first 50k Yeah, I trained easy. And what I mean, so you're thinking about starting off of training. I started by running rail trails, you know, things like that. Just, you know, doing getting used to running on the ground. You're gonna have different
shoes. They go between your road shoe and street height, matter of fact. And some of the running shoes now are amazing. They're lightweight. They are the support, okay, I hike primarily in in running shoes. Yeah, I don't, I don't use the, you know, the big, heavy boots that I used to use. So you can, you can fly. I mean, your feet, and it's same thing. You're going to be in those things all day. You want them to comfort so, so you
make that transition. So I want, you know, you, if you're thinking about making the transition, there's so many sources. There's good books, there's good stuff online. There's clubs, you know, like my running club, the schedule runners. Half of us are trail runners. You want to go out with these people. And that's, again, a backup, because this was so new to me. Guy, all right, I've been hiking all this time and running all this time. I know what to do. How do you pull them
together? I started, you know, hanging out and talking to people who knew what they're doing. And you go out there and see kind of gear they're using, and see, you know, what type of food and and, and again, everyone's gonna have their own style. Sure, it's there's no right way of doing it, no wrong way of doing it. Yeah. But it is exploding. Now. I mentioned when I started getting into the ultra running scene years ago, it was,
it was an older crowd. It was mostly a lot of people over 40, and now I'm much older, and there's a young boom. I find this last 50k I did. I was the second oldest participant there. So young people are definitely getting into trail running. It's amazing. It's become huge.
So it sounds like trail running is really for a hiker who likes to cover a lot of ground and go fast. It's like, why not take it up a step and do trail running? Is that a fair thing to say?
There's a lot. Again, everyone's doing it for different some people are definitely doing more of the challenge. See what kind of miles. And I definitely, I mean, there's part of me I enjoy that too, like going out and do the northern loop in a day, or something like that, the challenge. But also, again, I'm type A, really, which is also funny. I think if you look, if you go to a trail running event, you're gonna find all of us. I mean, you know, incredible array
of type A people. You also, what's interesting, you got to love this too, because you look at them on surface, everybody looks like a dirtbagger. And then you find out this guy is a lawyer. This guy is a CEO. I mean, it's amazing, because we're all we're driven. And that's the other thing you have to be driven to do this kind of stuff, yeah, but it's
why I don't do it because I'm not type A or German. It's
definitely different from the sniffing the flowers. And I've always been this way. I mean, I rode a bicycle across the country I was 18 years old, so there's no hope for me. But I, you know, I always look at this thing like life is too short. I want to do as much as I possibly can do. And trail run. Allows me to get into these places that don't
need permits. Worry about backpacking and, and I don't have three days, four days to get in and do and, plus, I still do like the challenging to challenge myself doing that too. So So I tend to do more of the ultra stuff when I do because I do like to go out and sniff the flowers and and, you know, go slow. And I'm doing that. I'm doing shorter hikes. So my trailer is usually mostly Ultra. I don't do too many short trail runs, because I'm usually doing
more Ultras on it. Yeah, I'm actually hiking on the shorter runs. Yeah, that makes sense, actually, yeah. So I don't know I be interesting, because I hang out with a predominantly an ultra crowd, I'm curious how many people in the trail running community are just short trail runners, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I
don't know either. I mean, you know, as as you know, we're both year round hikers, and I live fairly close to like, Tiger Mountain, Cougar Mountain, squat mountain, places to run, yeah, and, and especially between like November and April, most of the other people I see are trail runners, yeah, and those
are places because they're keeping us conditioned, because we can't be in the high country in the winter time,
right, exactly, and the days are short and, um, anyway, so I don't, yeah, I don't know the answer to that either, but I'm, I'm curious about that, I would also say, again, I'm not a trail runner, but evergreen trails has, like, organized runs, and I've done a bunch of runs with orga running, which is their company, company, and so I'll just say, You know, I have definitely considered doing a shorter one that they rate easy trail, yeah,
introductory. What I was gonna say is kind of cool about that is, if you're wanting to get started, but want a little bit of support, or want someone to help you figure out where to go as a beginner, I feel like their rating system, I mean, they do use easy but, but again, it's comparative, right? So they're like, Okay, if this was, like, your first trail run, try this one, or this one, because there's not too much elevation
gain. Or if you're ready for something really hard or a big challenge, you know, here's the one. So I think that even though I'm not a trail runner, I feel like if I was going to that would be a really helpful resource,
you might it's so funny, you know, getting my own journey into it. Yeah, I very much. Came in because I was turning 50, and I was looking at, I wrote about the White River 50, and I was just amazed that these people can run 50 in a day. And there's something about it's like, God, you know, I want to, I want to see if I've got that. Yeah, try and be and so when I started doing the trail run and said, Boy, you this, there is definitely an interesting community, the trail
running community. They're hard to describe, but, yeah, but they're very inclusive. I mean, that's the thing. It doesn't matter what your your story is. Yeah, you're one of them. Now, that's cool and very, very inclusive, bunch of very and very eclectic because, again, you I can't give you a stereotypical trail runner, because they're from all over
the place. Yeah, you're in, and they love taking you in and because you're one of us now, and making you want so I remember when I did my first 50 miler, I thought, one and done, and bad people, so what's next? Craig? You're gonna do 100k I'm like, not in your life. Never would I ever and of course, as I was, I kind of got out of it for a while, because life goes on, but I never stopped running. I've been running religiously since my 20s. I absolutely love
running, you know, I marathon. I love the big city marathons too, which is crazy, because I love going to wilderness, but I did the LA Marathon last year, which is one of my favorite runs. Yeah, you can't, can't get too far apart on those, right? But as I was
clearly not the wilderness. So
as I turned 60, I all sudden, realized, again, time is getting even shorter, and I wanted to I rediscovered my love for trail running, and I got even crazier than when I was younger, and I'm doing stuff now that couldn't even do my 30s, like running 62 miles. So um, I think that's one of the beauties about about trail running too, as if you're a road runner. So many trail runners have been around for a while were former Road Runners, because road running is tough. It's tough on
the body. Yeah, and you might laugh, isn't running 50 miles. It's actually less tough than trying to run a marathon under four hours. You're pounding the pavement. It's repetitive emotion, yeah, where again, I'm telling trail running is a fast hike. Your chin, your muscles are being used differently. You're fueling all the time. You're stopping and eat. I mean, it's not the same as Sue I find. Last year I did four marathons.
I got injured, doing road marathons, yeah, where I didn't get injured doing 100k run on the trail. So again, everybody's bodies are different, too, but there's so many Road Runners now, I think this is part of reason that trail running has exploded, because a lot of people just love running. Realize I'm not going back to the roads. I'm done with roads, yeah,
and I think especially in a place like, you know. Western Washington, where there's lots of traffic and we don't Ness. I mean, we have good trails, but, like, our sidewalks, not in great shape, always concrete, it's hard. And then we have these amazing trails that are pretty close to all of our cities. So it kind of makes sense that it would be a big deal here.
I should also mention the beauty of the trails, because, you know, yeah, I grew up in the Northeast, and I've hiked all over the country. The Northwest trails are incredible. Because, one, there's no such thing as switchbacks east of the Mississippi. That's something we dream of. So the trails here are switched back. They're They're engineered. Also the terrain, you know, back in in New England, you're running on bedrock. It's a solid bedrock
that that is hard. Here you've got these nice, soft surface trails. So some of my favorite trails to run out here are the trails that the mountain bikers have designed because, you know, they're fun to run and they're well groomed. I'm not gonna be tripping over. So you write things called technical trails. That's the other thing too. When you first start trail running. Stay away from the technical trails. The technical trail is gonna be more like hardcore hiking trails, roots and rocks
and things like that. They're gonna be much more difficult to run. So look for these multi use trails that mountain bikers use, that horses use. You know, even some of the dirt bike trails that are not super popular, they make great running trails.
Yeah. So I've heard you say, Okay, if you if you want to get into trail running like a good first step is to kind of start on an a shorter, easier trail, you know, and work up to it, whether that's the terrain itself or the distance, or how much climbing. I also heard you say that, like, you can find community, to find other people to sort of help you
along the way. Are there any other any other pieces of advice you have for people who are just getting started with this, if they're hikers and or runners? Yeah,
if your thing is too if you're super you know, just say you're a super fit hiker or super fit runner. Do not, and you're probably very, very capable of going off into the wilderness to run, you know, 30 miles or so. You really need to look at it differently, in that you're going to want to
carry gear, things like that. So again, when I'm doing a training run in the chuck, and that's where, you know, close to where I live, I'm not carrying a lot of stuff, because if I run in trouble, I mean, it's easy to get out of cell phone when I'm going to image lake or so. I'm carrying, I'm basically, I'm carrying enough on me that if I had an accident twist my ankle actually had to stay to the night. Yeah, I'm gonna survive more than like, yeah, I've got
extra food and layers. So I see, I encounter, I'm constantly encountering trail runners deep in the wilderness, they're carrying nothing, right? And more
like what you might wear and carry to run around
something, yeah, which again, so, you know, I think you're, you're, you're rolling the dice on a lot of that. So, you know, again, you know, there's some wonderful packs and lightweight gear. You want to carry minimal things again, you're trying to stay really lightweight, but you want to make sure you're prepared for something, yeah, anything too. You're going to be looking at. You're going to be pushing your body very, very differently,
too. So you're going to be, you know, different stretching and things like that. And then the other thing, trail hazards, things, when you're hiking along slowly, you're probably not paying attention a lot, but all sudden now it's like any rock or root in there, can you a serious injury. So to
be honest with you, that's what freaks me out about trail runators. And
here's my advice about trail running, especially going downhill. Well, yeah, that's scary you've got. So here's the thing, when I'm running, my eyes are on the ground. Yeah. I always tell people, you're on a super scenic area. If you want to stop and look at the scenery, you stop because the main you you're running, and you look over the right mountains. That's it takes like that, and you're going to
trip. And that can go from anywhere just a slight little skip to a tumble to a broken something, yeah, and, you know, I always look, you know, I have a messed up finger here. That's, that's from, from from trail, running along. And again, this could happen. I was, I was on a 30 mile run all by myself, and I was hopping over a downed log, and I came down on the trail and didn't realize it was all needles, pine needles, and they acted just like it was a slip and slide. I slid right out,
right down on my hand. Thank God it was my hand and screwed up my finger, because if it was my ankle, I had about six or seven miles to get out with two hours of daylight. Yeah. So that would have been rough. So again, you have to, you know, carry the first aid. I carry a spot. I let people go. I mean, I
love you. Say, what a spot is,
people haven't listened. It's a personal locator beacon. It's so if I get into trouble, it hits the satellite. It goes into emergency things as I need help, I'm injured or whatever. And
there, by the way, there are several other episodes, if you found us in this one, where we've talked about what Craig and I use for backcountry communication. And so go check those out with the other places we've talked about them when
I should, and I should say, with that said, you know, it's probably best Sure Start trail running and I like go with somebody. And yeah, actually, I prefer going with other people. But my schedule is different, lots and lots of times where no one's available. And so life goes on. Yeah, but I do like going out with other people. I have a lot of fun. And let me tell you, too, you have some serious bonding with someone when you spend 30 miles on the trail going through
things. Yeah? So again, I love the freedom that I love the movement. I love that you can cover the distance to get into these places. Yeah, it is. It's hard to explain. I think again, trail, everyone's gonna give you different but it really, it's spiritual to me to yeah, really push it. And again, you know, I'm in my 60s now too, and I'm realizing, um, there's not going to be that much time left to do
this. And so the fact, to me, like every day I can do it is awesome, and I love it, and I'm gonna keep doing it till my body says, No,
yeah, I love it, you know, it's funny. I was thinking about my you know, I think compared to running on a sidewalk next to traffic, trail running sounds great, but it's the elevation gain and loss and the uneven ground that freaks me out about it stick to those rail trails, I know, I know, so I should give it a try sometime, and I would not be someone to go straight to the 50 miler ever, because I'm not like you, which is why it's so fun to do this
together. But I was thinking about one of my good friends, who's a trail runner, and she lives in Montana. And a few years ago, two or three years ago, I went Jay, and I just happened to be over there, because he's from Montana, and so we were spending some time with them, and she was doing the big trail run that's at Big Sky. Oh, that happens in in September. It was on my birthday, which is Labor Day
weekend. That's a tough one. And so I rode the chairlift at Big Sky, also not one of my favorite things up so I could see her at like, the halfway point or something. So I cheered her on, and then I I hiked down on, you know, because rode the chairlift up, hiked down. And while I was going down on this kind of loose rock, steep downhill, I was like, I can't imagine running on
this. That's terrifying. And it was funny because, like, the next day, I was like, So honestly, this seems like in some situations, not that kind of elevation gain in length, but I could see this being really fun. But I was like, how do you not die running downhill on those loose rocks. And she was like, Well, I don't run on that part. Oh, yeah, I guess you wouldn't have to run.
See, that's again, the thing, people again, yeah, we're not running the entire and any steep technical sections. And matter of fact, here's another thing too. I tend I just did the grouse grind this year, which is brutal,
and in Vancouver, British Columbia,
where you're climbing 2800 feet in 1.4 miles, yeah, okay, on there, and I did it. And just, you know, I wasn't actually running, I was just hiking fast in an hour, and it took me an hour and a half to hike down right. It's harder. And I had and I had poles, because if I didn't, I would have certainly have killed myself, I know, and that's the thing I find too. I find it easier to actually, I actually will keep a good pace going up this deep stuff, it's going down. It's from where you can
injure yourself. So again, you're really kind. And I think that's the other thing too, the mind focus. You're really focusing on that, that terrain in front of you also, you know, there are poles made for trail running too, right? Super lightweight. They're collapsible. You throw them in your pack. I've
seen those. They're pretty cool. You're pretty cool because
you're gonna want that coming down. But the whole thing too, I mean, it's just you really become one with the trail. Again, it's a little different hiking, where you're kind of looking around and where this you're more you're more focused on that, that tread that terrain, right? You're very much in the moment focus. And that's the other thing too. Because how do you you spend, you know, all those out, but you're, you're
living in the moment. Yeah, and lots of times when I'm hiking, you know, I let my mind go, I'm drifting. But when I'm trail running, I'm pretty much, I'm focused on the moment. So it's one of those few cases where I'm really living for the moment. And we don't do that a lot in our life. And why it's again so intense, it's, it's, you know, you come across these things and you feel like you want to cry. I mean, it's an intense experience, one of the most emotional, intense experiences
that have had that. And I think for me, it's part of, you know, we live in the society that we're so numbed and everything is, you feel alive, yeah. And again, I can't say that for other everyone's gonna give you a different story, but, but, and then we all sit around the end, and it's just this bonding, because, yeah, you know. And again, people from all different Why do you. Do this, because to the outside be like, Why do you do this?
Not painful, yeah,
but it's not easy. But, um, that's part of the because it was easy, I guess it wouldn't be that, yeah.
And it sounds like it's a really great thing for the right person, and for people for whom they're like, oh, that sounds terrible, then it's probably fine to just skip it.
I would probably messed on drugs if it wasn't a trail runner.
I don't know, right? It's a good it's a good alternative to other forms of self medication. Okay, I have one last question for you, Craig about this. So for somebody who is just getting I know that there's a tremendous amount of gear you can get for trail running, but I also know that like hiking, like running, like anything else, like having to buy a bunch of gear is kind of
overwhelming. So if you think about someone who's a beginner, who's like, yeah, I really want to do this, but I don't want to invest too much right away. What do you what gear items do you feel like are necessary to kind of get started? In particular, thinking about needing to lighten your load but still needing to be prepared. Yeah. And
the same thing, just like in hiking, the good trail running is so popular now there's so many companies and the high tech that prices have come down on a lot of this gear. So first of all, your shoes, you know, on regular rail trails and things like, you can use regular running shoes on that I wear regular running shoes on a lot of non technical trails, so you don't need to go out and spend a
lot of money. But even there, you can get a decent trail shoe when you start going, it's not going to cost you a terrible amount of money. Then, you know. Okay, so
Shoes, shoes are real basic, real basic. What is the difference between trail running shoes and regular running shoes. Okay?
They're gonna be little, just the way they're manufactured. First of all is more support, okay? And they're grippier, far more grippier, yeah? So you're gonna and you'll feel it too. So when you're on slick surfaces and they grip where a regular trail, a regular running shoe is not gonna have that, yeah, okay, so that's one of the big and regular one.
Shoes tend to be cushier too, because they're more on the pavement where, again, there are cushier trail running shoes I use Brooks Cascadia, or my favorite, been running into here that Brooks, I've been running in those for 14 years now. Call us and they're a local They're a local company here in Washington. They are my trail running shoe, awesome, but they tend to be more to the ground. People that don't like them because they're not cushy, I like them because you're kind of
got more support. You feel them. So I've been running, I said for 14 years, they work for me. So, you
know, it's funny, because I hike in trail running shoes, and then I run in minimal, zero drop, minimal shoes, like Merrill right now, Merrill gloves, but I've also used five fingers. Wow. So I don't that is, I know about trail running shoes, but I'm like, what? I don't really know how that's different from regular running shoes, because I can't wear
some of the running shoes. You can see, I mean, they'd make me a lot taller. I mean, they're so padded.
The last time I bought trail running shoes, which, like I said, I use them for hiking. I was kind of getting fitted for them, which, by the way, I'm a big believer in, like, going and getting something offline. Great to order it off online. Once you already know they're the right one.
I have a shout out to this. There are a lot of running specialty stores, yeah, yeah. And some that in particular, Fairhaven runners in Bellingham. Bellingham is a huge trail running. So you're gonna go there, and you're gonna have the staff there. They're super friendly, super knowledgeable. They're gonna put you in the right shoe, yeah, they're gonna set you up. They know what they're talking about. So definitely go to your trail running. You're running shoe companies? Yes, I'm sorry, yeah.
And I so I was trying these shoes on, and I was like, I brought my old shoes, which, of course, you know that's the other thing is, whenever you're ready for new shoes, the ones you had last time that were perfect aren't available anymore.
They want to see the wear on those shoes too. It shows you what kind of runner you are. So I
bring them in there. And the guy was like, Okay, how important is it to you that they're waterproof? And I was like, that's really important, really. It's zero for me, I run through the cruise, yeah. And he was like, how important is it to you that there's zero drop, which, for people who aren't familiar with that, that means your heel isn't lifted at all when you're wearing the shoes. I have very tight calves and get bad shin
splints. So that's why I have to have zero drop everything and and I was like, very important. And he was like, Okay, you have two choices for zero drop waterproof ones. I'm like, great. So I try on both, and one of them was hokas. People love no hate on hokas. No shade. There many people love them. They are not for me because they are too cushy. I've never run in them, yeah? But I was like, I'm gonna try them on. I'm gonna give both of these pairs of
shoes a chance, right? So I put those on, and I told the guy, I was like, and I told him, I was like, I'm worried about these because they're so high. And he was like, that's cool. I was like, but I'm gonna try them. So I put him on, and he's like, how are they? And I said, I kind of feel like I'm wearing high heels. He was like, yeah, those
aren't the right ones. Go with the others, which are Ultras, by the way, but again, that isn't going to be right for everybody, because they are super lightweight, zero drop, very minimalist, yeah, exactly, which is very good for me, but won't be for everyone, yeah? And that's
the complaint I hear about Ultras too. They don't give the support, right? Which is great for me. So everyone has got to you again, I get people always asking me for recommendations on footwear. I could tell you what I use, but you need to figure out yourself. I
completely agree. I get the same, you know, for for both Washington, but also for people traveling to Alaska. They're like, what hiking boots should I get? What rubber boots should I get? And I'm like, well, these are ones that work for a lot of people. If you have to buy them online, but if you have the option of trying them on, it makes a
huge Yeah, you can't pie. And then once you know, once you come up with a shoe, you like, like seeing that. I'm a road runner too. I use sauconies in my road. I saw any rides. Hear that Saucony? Saucony ride? I've been running my Saucony for 25 years. Okay? I'm one of your most loyal. I get fitted, and then I will order my my garage looks like a shoe a shoe store because I got boxers of shoes. I get a deal. And I buy a bunch of them because I know the shoe works for me,
right? And then in a year, when you need them, they'll have moved on to something else.
Yeah, these change the color. Thank God. Yeah, right. That's fine. Um, okay,
so we got off on a little bit of a tangent, which is fine. So yeah, shoes are important. So again, thinking about a beginner, someone who isn't, you know, who wants to try it, wants to have what they need to get started. Um, what else besides shoes? Do you feel like people should have the
clothing, actually, too. This sounds kind of funny. A lot of your hiking clothing might be a little heavier, a little more ride, more restrictive. You're gonna want clothes they're a little looser, light. And again, you can use just regular running gear, but there is trail running gear. What's the difference between regular you know what? Regular running gear is really light, and you may want to have, you know, a little bit more support. But like, the shorts that I run in are different than
when I just hiking. So they don't have eight pockets, you know, things like that, because I'm not going to be putting things in them. You definitely want you're going to hit us again. No cotton. You want technical fabrics, because things are going to be rubbing. So you want to make sure that you know things are comfortable when you're sweating. Absorb also, I call out one of the things that I that I swear by and learn the hard way. I usually carry Body Glide with me on all my children. Because,
boy, you will chafe. You're gonna, yeah, sweat. So that's a good that's a necessity, where I don't care what I'm hiking, because I'm not sweating as mom, not moving as much, that type of thing, but, but, but running I am, yeah? And then the other thing too, you're gonna want a specialty pack. You know, you can run in a regular, small day pack, but it's not, it's gonna bounce, it's gonna be shave, wiggly. It's not gonna work. Yeah, I have a Solomon second skin, which are amazing. One I
use for racing. I have some larger ones. Solomon, so did you hear that? Yeah, I know you're over I know you're over there in France, but where some Cebu play, but um, that's what I use racing. It fits you like a glove. It's amazing. And I have bigger packs I use when I'm doing wilderness runs. So Scott's another company that makes good, good products. They make good, good trail running packs and shoes. So I've used their products too. But you're
still, you're traveling. You want it to fit really well, because you're gonna be running with a pack, yeah. So you want it, you know, again, you know, you want to make sure it's not rubbing in the wrong place. Things aren't bouncing. So that's the thing, you know. And again, your hydration. Do you want you're going to do a handheld, or do you want a hydration, a Camelback type of
thing? How much water would you Yeah, good thing with it, with with your your hydration state type thing, with the tubes, your camel back. That is that you, you can, you can go all day without filling it on a lot of it, though, that thing is going to slosh and bounce and things like that. Where, if you're using other sources, you're going to have to filter your water if you're going out there too. So you got to keep all
that. Yeah, and I've talked earlier about the food sources are going to be different too, because you might like certain heavier foods that taste really wonderful, but you probably can't go running right off of that your body needs to digest it. Yeah. So a lot of the specialty foods, for the Cliff bars and the stingers and all the gels, those things break down instantly, because they're meant to be absorbed by the body instantly. So you're probably
not going to cramp on this. But again, you want to experiment with this stuff. You want to before you go out for a run and then realize that your body's not taking that food or it doesn't feel good. So these are things you're going to be looking at as well. So cool.
Yeah, that sounds like a manageable list.
It's not. Here's one of the beautiful things I love about trail running, too. I can do it anywhere, and I do it anywhere when I travel anywhere. A trail. I trail run. I'm it's simple. I fly off somewhere. I'm packing a pair of shoes, shorts, shirts, a couple of items. Yeah? So it's not like being a tryout, like my wife's a triathlete. Forget about buying some wetsuits. It's too complicated. It's too much. I just want to run. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's the beauty of what I love about
an athlete. It's simple, yeah, you know. And that's what I love about it, because it's so base. I My life is complicated enough. I know many people too, we want something that's so pure. So just, just go and again, anywhere there's a trail, I can do this, and I've run, I've trail run in Florida, which also, again, doesn't have to be mountainous. It's trail run. Trail run, the Florida trail
Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, you know, just watch for the alligators and the snakes instead of the roots of the rocks. But this is the fun thing about it,
yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much, Craig for sharing about this. I learned a lot, and hopefully other people who might be interested please send us questions too. Yes, so I was just gonna say that in addition to our voicemail, we also have a text question. So you can text us questions or comments and we'll answer those in a future
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