Jason Smart explains why Ukraine’s future matters in the United States - podcast episode cover

Jason Smart explains why Ukraine’s future matters in the United States

Dec 28, 202354 minEp. 140
--:--
--:--
Download Metacast podcast app
Listen to this episode in Metacast mobile app
Don't just listen to podcasts. Learn from them with transcripts, summaries, and chapters for every episode. Skim, search, and bookmark insights. Learn more

Episode description

Jason Smart, a correspondent from the Kyiv Post, joins Steve to discuss what life is like in Ukraine, where the Ukraine-Russia conflict goes from here, and why the United States' support matters.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Very pleased to be joined on this episode of the Warning podcast by Jason Smart, who is in Kiev, Ukraine. Jason, welcome, Thank you, Steve.

Speaker 2

Good to see you.

Speaker 1

Why don't we start out by you telling the audience how long you've been in Ukraine what it is that you're doing there.

Speaker 2

So I've been in Ukraine since about twenty fifteen, pretty steadily since then, and I'm currently a journalist for the Kiev Post, the largest English language newspaper in the country that's been in existence since nineteen ninety five.

Speaker 1

Talk to us about life in Kiev this Christmas season, heading into winter.

Speaker 2

So recently it's been sort of complicated. There's been a series of missile strikes. Yesterday, I think there's five air raid warnings, and Ukraine has been fortunate thanks to specifically American Patriot missiles, has been able to shoot down a lot of the missiles that are coming into the territory. The last Christmas was far worse without the air defense.

Ukraine was getting hit regularly. There's losing electricity, and it's so bad that walking down the streets of Kiev you couldn't hold a conversation with somebody by your side because there's so much noise in the generators. There's just so many generators everywhere, you just gonna have a conversation. So we're past that point. At this point, they are able to shoot a lot of them down. Yet the Irani

made drones are still almost daily hitting Ukraine. They try to figure out where the air defense is located, and then they try to exploit in various infrastructure targets that they have. And that's in addition to the fact that the ballistic missiles, those that are produced by Russia, as well, as it seems done now, missiles that are produced by North Korea and Iran are also going to be used.

Speaker 1

What is the rale of the Ukrainian people in this moment? Is it defiant, exhausted, resolved? How do they assess the counter offensive, its status? And how do they assess the politics of the country right now heading into twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2

So I would say that the morale overall in the population remains very resolved. There's certainly a desire to defeat Russia that's not changed at all. I can't even imagine how people would respond if you're ask them, do you think it's time to kind of deal with Putin, nobody would accept that argument. That being said, obviously they recognize there's been setbacks with things like the counter offensive. Those setbacks, though, we're not something that we can blame just in one place.

Let's be fair, for a forour kilometer by four kilometer, which is, you know, two and a half mile by two and a half mile large area, they uncovered about twenty thousand land mines on the Russian side. That many landmines obviously slows things down, especially when there's not sufficient amount of demining equipment. But more at that point, I think that on the Ukrainian side there remains a very strong desire to see victory. The president of the country, Zelenski,

has an approval rating that's above eighty percent. It's probably about eighty eight percent of our call correctly, and this is all addicted to the fact that the population is very united. I mean, they recognize this. His genocidal Vladimir Putin has been very clear, and it was clear yesterday when he had his annual address the press that his

intention has not changed. He wishes to conquer Ukraine. He also signaled very clearly that after Ukraine, there's other things in the work such as the country in Moltova and including the Baltic states which are all NATO members. Vladimir Putin is unrepentent. He is complete decided that this is what he wishes to be, the hill that he dies

on if it needs to be. And Russia is lost over three hundred thousand troops casualties I should say necessarily died, but to those who have died it's well over one hundred and senty thousand. This point, Russia is just bleeding out men and he will not stop.

Speaker 1

What is the casualty count or the Ukrainian armed forces at this.

Speaker 2

Point, so the numbers aren't public. Ukraine doesn't publish them, but it is estimated to be less than half of what the Russians are. And it's surprising at first, it seems not feasible. It seems, you know, it's just sort of like propaganda. But the fact is it make sense. Russia doesn't respect the lives of its soldiers. It does d mind fields, using the soldiers to run across them.

These are generally to be fair, not something to do with all soldiers, specifically the ones that are, for instance, prisoners who they forced to go to the war or ethnic minorities, they use them for the same purposes. Those that have AIDS or other diseases that are communicable, they use for purposes such as this. So that this is something that Russia has used as sort of a stape of the war, which is that they're ken father. They're happy to send them off in droves and very few might return.

Speaker 1

Are there public estimates or government estimates of how many Ukrainian women and Ukrainian children have been raped by Russian soldiers or Russian mercenaries or Russian parabilitaries.

Speaker 2

Yeah, there's at the prosecutor's office a lot of cases open, about ninety thousand cases of rape and sexual assault, the majority of which were against small children as well as against elderly women. And in the case sickly enough, is the same for both the Russian soldiers who have been captured and who've been dud has said that it's because they don't run away as fast, so it's easier to get them. So the rape of children has become so

significant that they're the psychologists here overwhelmed by it. Some of the interviews which you can find online, you're not hard to find what the psychologists have said about. You know, they've just for no specific reason castrated little boys, raped girls to death, raped little girls or little boys to death in front of their parents, and then raped the mother to death. This is something that Russia has engaged in Ukraine.

Speaker 1

Is there an official count, precise count of how many children have been kidnapped by those Russian forces who have raped upwards of ninety thousand people and taken them ease? How many children are missing?

Speaker 2

So tragically we know about only twenty thousand, though it's estimated being one hundreds of thousands. Like in the case of the rape of children, we only know about it when they have made it to the free Ukraine, that is to say that their parents are in the unoccupied territories. Those who remain occupied territories, there's no way of knowing what's occurred. So the number of rapes, for instance, their murders is undoubtedly much higher. The numbers of people that

be kinnapped us much higher. Simply the parents are not in free Ukraine, they are occupied Ukraine, and so there's no way for the Ukrainian Prosecutor's office to know that this has occurred. But it is estimated that the reality is that though it is about twenty thousand that's public UNNI of children who have been abducted from their parents, many of them who then have their names changed when they move to Russia. The reality is that the numbers are going to be multiple times higher than that.

Speaker 1

How is the building Maga Republican opposition to arming Ukraine being covered in Ukraine? How has President Zelensky's visit to the United States been covered domestically in Ukraine? Is it through a prism of worry that American support with regard to funding for the lethal weaponry necessary to repel the Russian military will be cut off?

Speaker 2

Sadly, To be frank with you, yes, there is quite a few about that. There's a lot of lack of understanding of why this is. The Ukrainians can understand why. You know, We've just a year ago said they were allies and we'd stick it out with them, and today the United States has decided that it's got other priorities. I keep in mind, this is a country where their abduction is going on today. There are people of both sexes,

of all ages being raped to death today. There are people that are pits being tortured in eastern Ukraine, and the atrocity is just fancy you've never had imagined in your life. And they do not understand why it is that there is a growing group of Americans who just do not have any sympathy for their plight, who write it off the things that are nonsense, such as you

know the corruption. Listen, there's tons of oversight of the money going to Ukraine, just absolutely tons that he was twelve or thirteen different government agencies that are looking into an oversight of the money. There's not been any prompts so far. And they don't understand why is that Americans are going to hang them out to dry, to a bunch of bloodthirsty savages that have nothing else in their minds than they commit genocide. And that's what we see a current today.

Speaker 1

Well, they have to have some idea what do they think it is?

Speaker 2

They really don't. They're very scared by it because in mind, the Ukraine perspective on this is they read in the news that the US is tying and support for their country to immigration. They have no idea what US immigration is like, why that's a big deal. They have no idea how you tie bills together in the US. These are all things that are very foreign to them, So it is not something that makes a lot of sense.

They just understand that for some closing this border or whatever it is the Americans wish to do is something that's more important than what's happening to their population. They truly don't have a strong understanding. There's obviously, yes, a great deal of apprehension about the return of Donald Trump. There's a great deal of fear of what that might mean. Just today I was with the journalists who asked, you know,

Trump has promised in the world twenty four hours. Do you think that means to just give the whole territory over to Russia? What do you think that is? Some mean, yes, there's significant concern in the population.

Speaker 1

When you look at it from Kiev. Who are the Americans that are viewed by the Ukrainians as being Putin's most astonishing, useful idiots. Who are the Americans that they see and revile as being on the other side of this fight, being on the Russian side?

Speaker 2

Well, undoubtedly Tucker Carlson has a special place in their hearts. Tucker Carlson is so widely cited in Russian news it's nightly, literally every single night, for that matter, there's a YouTube channel. I'm sure you can find YouTube if you just take Tucker Carlson Russian and you see his television shows are being translated to Russian. Who's paying for that? Where's it

come from? But whatever it is, the Russian government or whoever is behind it is so pleased by it that it is translating tons of episodes, especially the key parts, and using them, and the fact that it's showing up routinely is amazing. Alex Jones is another great example. He's been on Russian TV. He cited as a person fighting for freedom in America who has been oppressed. The Russian press just loves him, and so we look at these guys.

You know, if Russian press is highlighting you as an example of what's good about America, you're probably actually the worst part of America. And that's what Russia has tried to really put an effort to expose their population into morows.

Speaker 1

What Republican members of the Senate and or Congress are you routinely saying on Russian state TV, Russian propaganda channels and outlets.

Speaker 2

So the different congressman, senators, it varies anytime they see something to oppose Ukraine or any time that they come up and use Ukraine sorry Russian talking points, it is cited. I mean, Russia is constantly on the hunt for who it is they can cite as an example. Who is it we can say is an example that there is really a lot of support in America for what we're doing. What we're doing is not, you know, grossly unethical, but

in fact Americans support it. And I think that when we look at it as a whole, I would say that there's a few who are really their favorites. The congress woman from Georgia or Marjorie Taylor Green is obviously at the very top of the list. Is routine inside it. By the way, she also cites Russian government sanctioned by the US government, sanctioned news sources, and they're sanctioned for him to try to mess in the US elections. But

they are literally government propaganda. It's nonsense. They're completely nonsense. Things Zelenski buyings in France and literally baseless, literally basis and you could say the same thing about me and I have the same degrie of truth. It's just baseless, and that sided by people like this, I mean, I will say yes, the Magropublicans in Poling are the least supportive of Ukraine out of any demographic in America. They

believe essentially conspiracy theories about Ukraine. They believe things that are nonsensical, and they also have a very nonsensical view of Russia as a country. It's defending Christian values or somehow defending traditional family values, which is just simply not true. Russia does none of the above. Russia is a criminal state runlive Vladimir Putin, who's the mafia don And anyone who thinks otherwise should really just take a look at what is Russia. That is a terrifying country with a

population that's quite brainwashed. And there is sadly yes US congressman or senators who somehow think that it's a light to the east and nothing to be further from truth.

Speaker 1

Do you get the sense sitting in Ukraine that the war is yet to escalate to its full potential?

Speaker 2

The war will worsen, I mean undoubted will. Listen, the Russians have located here in Ukraine an estimated six hundred thousand troops, at least what Putin said yesterday, the estimate prior to yesterday have been about four hundred and fifty thousand, so let's say it's you know, five hundred something at least. The Ukrainian military is quite large, but it's still really

slightly larger than the Russian military. The advantage of Ukraine has though, as it suffers far less losses, and thanks to specifically the American technology that is here, the military hardware, it is able to defend itself and to suffer less losses than the Russian stew and to evacuated soldiers more efficiently than the Russian stew and since so there's survival

rates much higher. That being said, you know, Russia has no intent of stopping what it's doing now, and so we can expect that Vladimir Putin, as he becomes more frustrated by this war, will engage in other human rights atrocities in the bombing of cities as he currently does,

and to just continue this. But I think there's another element, which is that there is a lot of evidence that Russia is trying to stir up tensions in other countries, including in the Balkans, including Moldova, in order specifically to distract from what's going on here so that he'll have more of a free hand and less attention will be placed on him.

Speaker 1

When you assess the situation, to what degree do you think that Vladimir Putin is calculating that Donald Trump will be elected president in November twenty four take office in

January twenty five. A precipitate, a constitutional crime is domestically and be attempt to or resolved to withdraw America from its NATO obligations, which are harder to do than the MAGA spokespeople allow, but nevertheless concernedly signal that countries that America is obligated to defend under Article five, including the Balitic republics, would not be defended and leaving them naked

outside of America's deterrence perimeter. What degree to which do you look at the situation and see that the Putin is just holding on waiting for that to happen.

Speaker 2

You know, I would generally agree with that assessment. So I think that Donald Trump is something that is the hope for Varmora Putin, and as time goes on, you know,

I don't think that's part, isn't talking point. I think that is accurate because I see enough of what's happening in Russia that affirms that listen, I read the Russian news every day, obviously speak Russian, and I'm telling you when you read the Russian news and you read what their television channels, the Kremlin Finance Telvin channels, when they say things such as our friends that Republicans are doing this right now, or we're closer to victory and Donald

Trump will join us for how should you interpret that? I mean, to me, it is a very scary thought that there is not just I mean, I understand all countries will have a preference in an election. That's normal, but the fact that they consider it to be their ally being elected who will help them to conquer Ukraine, I find it to be just sickening. I mean, it

is truly. I don't remember this ever once Russian history in its relation to the United States, where the Russians have been so unambivalent about the fact that one of the two candidates is someone who is going to help them to win, and then the fact that they are citing people who the same guy Donald Trump cites, such as Tucker Carlson. The people who are the most loudmouthed in the mag of movement are exactly the people show up in a Russian TV To me, this is just incredible.

And we're not talking you know, a one time thing where somebody has a quote that's taken out of context that Russians use it. We're talking steadily and routinely. The Russians say, but look, there are good people in America and this is what they believe. This is what they say. But Donald Trump on a personal level, yes, I mean his lack of predictability, how scary he is for the NATO countries. Just listen to what the Foreign Minister of Lithuania,

gabrielis linz Burgas, has been saying. They're tremendously worried. They know that Donald Trump is dangerous for them. They never use his name. Is there politically you know, they're trying to be neutral, they are f ministry, but it's very clear what they're saying. They're saying that the Russians are going to try to conquer Ukraine and then go for the Baltic States. But they definitely have an eye on what happens next to Washington, and we all understand exactly

what they're referring to. They're referring to the Donald Trump coming back, a guy who's promised not to make America great again, but to have revenge. What does that mean? And the fact that they have all the investigations going on now in the US House about Hunter Biden, which is touching on Barisma and Ukraine. I have no doubt whatsoever. And by the way, we know this is ties back

to Russian intelligence the whole story. There are people that were inclusion with Russian intelligence, who met with people like Giuliani in regards that you know years ago now. But those those things are all being done specifically to benefit Donald Trump and his campaign.

Speaker 1

You used three times a word in describing pudent subjectives during this conversation, and the word is conquer as in conquer Ukraine, and I want to drill down on that. Do you mean to say that it is Vladimir Putin's aim to occupy Ukraine fully and completely the full nation of in the mid forties of millions of people, that in the way that Germany did France and did Greece and did the Netherlands as an occupying power, as a controlling power, making illegal the Ukrainian language. What do you

mean by that? Yeah?

Speaker 2

Actually, the example of Germany that you gave is pretty much what I mean by that. So we can only look at the occupied terraportratories so far, some of the eastern parts of Ukraine and what we saw there, and we'll just say that's probably a good example a prologue of what is to come. History is but a prologue, and in this case we see that in those regions there is forced taking a citizenship of Russian citizenship, that is, those who have refused. If you know, many things have happened.

You know, just yesterday they were raiding their houses, stealing their possessions, stealing the cash they might have had or anything had value, and then throwing them out into the streets. There is also the fact they've you know, kidnapped their children so they can send the Russia to be rucified, to only speak Russian and also to become more Russian like, and to forget the Ukrainian identity. They've eradicated, stopped out the Ukrainian language and culture. They've closed down the Ukrainian

churches for that matter. I mean, they've closed down Protestant churches, Baptist churches, Evangelical churches because it's considered to be a pro American conspiracy in the eyes of the Russians. I've interviewed pastors from eastern Ukraine who lived under occupation or who are capped by Russians, who are tortured. I mean they hooked their generals up to electric prods and lit

them up. These pastors because they said that, you know, all Evangelicals are all Protestants are part of the American conspiracy. It's something that the Russians really believe. It's not just you know, crazy, This is not so far outside of the rum. I've met enough people who have suffered these sorts of faiths to say that it's what happens. So and I talked about what's going to happen to the

rest of Ukraine. Yes, I'd imagine be very naugous that Russia is historically also taken the male population from the regions and forces them to become soldiers for their military. Once again. They use them primarily as cannon. Father There is no intent that they're going to win the war, said I should say, come back victoriously. They send the soldiers to die. There's an understanding they're going there to be wiped away.

Speaker 1

They've taken three hundred thousand casualties. Does Russia have the wherewith all military to occupy the whole of Ukraine if Western military support collapses.

Speaker 2

Yes, I mean that's the whole thing, is that Ukraine is able to keep it together because of the Western military assistance. Should that not come through. Look at the numbers. Russia's got one hundred and forty million people. It's a massive country. And the fact is if they just keep rounding up people and send them off as they are,

they will eventually overwhelm Ukraine. Unfortunately. That being said, Ukraine's senior advantage has been the Western military technology that allows us to suffer far less casualties than the Russian side. And it's thanks to the Americans. I mean, I have no doubt about it. It is thanks to the American people. And Ukrainians are very thankful. I want to be clear. Is they're very thankful, and they do bring it up. I mean when they hear my accent, it's one of

the first things they say. They love America. They appreciate the Americans have done for them, and they are, you know, worried about what's going on in the domestic American politic.

Speaker 1

Let's see if we agree on something which I suspect we do. But this is just as a basic strategic proposition, right, if you're a United States senator cold bloodedly looking at this situation, Let's say that you are true equities of the matter or defending Poland and you're really indifferent to Ukraine.

Is it not the case that, so long as this war is fought in Ukraine, that the Russians do not have the wherewithal to expand it beyond Ukraine, to say, Moldova or the Baltics, Or do you believe they can continue to fight in Ukraine, will expanding the war simultaneously to those other places? Or do you believe an expansion is the consequence of defeat in Ukraine?

Speaker 2

So the Russians at this point absolutely cannot take a significantly attack pulling into the Baltic states, e. They're far too occupy it here in Ukraine. That being said, you know, if Ukraine were to fall, yeah, in the closing days of that, they could easily roll through Moldova for instance. No, we'll not take much effort. There's only seven thousand soldiers in Moldova. It'd be pretty quick. Two point five million people in the country. But at this stage, no, far away.

Russia just does not have the capacity to do so. Again, you know, I think part of the whole strategy, if I was a US senator, is the fact that hey, listen, is far better. They keep the Russians occupied in Ukraine, Losing troops like crazy, losing tanks like crazy. Russia has lost I want to say, it's the statistic crectness. It's sixty eight percent of its tanks have been destroyed in its moore. The attritionary in the number of its soldiers who die in the war that wiped out, it's about

eighty six percent. There's plenty of evidence that Russia does not have the ability to stand up to modern American technologies. And it's really that simple. And of course the bravery of the Ukraine soldiers and all else, but it's the technology that's blowing up the tanks. And so we have to be clear, is that we are obliterating fifty percent of the Russian military and it has cost US five percent in the US defense budget. The police comparison that

works out a lesson about let's see five tenths. Let's say half of one percent of the US national budget, half of one percent of the total US budget has been able to destroy more than fifty percent of the Russian military. And I think that if we look at the many generations of Americans who paid federal taxes to pay for a military that would specifically defend them from the Soviet Union from the Russians. Today we're destroying the Russian military in a way that they could never have

dreamt of, costing not one US soldier's life. This is a very low cost. And one thing that they leave out in the American talk about this discussion is that the vast majority of the money, and this is easily found in the government's websites, the vast majority of the money that we give to Ukraine is actually stayed in the United States. In mind, these are US produced things. Abram's tanks are produced in Ohio, you know, these are

things Louisiana produces one fifty five. There is different things where you look at the US States, but they're producing the jobs that are created. And how much the weaponry that Ukraine has given as well as the various artillery and stuff like this that were nearing their date of exploration. They have to be used up by a certain date. These are things that we've had in stockpiles, a lot of it from the eighties, you know, from the early nineties.

They're not going to sit there for one hundred years. I mean, if we don't use it a certain time period, they destroy it, and that costs more money. It costs very little senate to Ukraine for free. So the numbers and how much we're spanning Ukraine, I would argue actually quite inflated. It's a lot less and it's saving US taxpayer a lot of dollars in many ways. The US military and return gets the newer technology, the newer equipment, and we're offloading the older stuff or the more used

stuff to Ukrainians. So this is a win win for everybody, and we're getting rid of one of our greatest geopolitical foes in our entire history.

Speaker 1

Well, you know, it's funny listening to you say that. I mean, I do have a bit of a different opinion on the messaging piece, though I understand the meritoriousness right of the argument you're making. But in the end, it costs what it costs, because the cost of Ukraine falling to the Russian Federation under Vladimir Putin is ultimately paid for by America's young men and women somewhere down

the line in a widening European war. And so you have a confluence of leaders in Trump, in lepenn far right party rising in Germany, that are all that you need to unravel the EU, to unravel NATO, and history would suggest that there's terrible consequences to that, particularly particularly

in Europe. So you know, this is an urgent moment I think for America's national security in one where the arming of Ukraine is an essential matter in the in the politics of it in the States are clear is that President Biden is going to have to capitulate on the on the border funding issue. And these issues should never have been linked. One should not be used to ransom the other, particularly by the extremists that are doing

the ransoming. But they have succeeded in doing it, and I think that the Biden administration will be compelled to cut that deal. But the fundamental issue for Ukraine in the United States is that in the course of a year, President Zelenski has gone from a universally admired man to a man who the presence draws a lot of indifference.

The attention span of the United States is that of a gerbil And in the end, there has to be a consistency of communication about the urgency of what's at stake, because this is going to go on for a long long time, and the American commitment has to be absolute until the end, and that the war cannot stop, must not stop until there are no longer any Russians on Ukrainian soil left to be killed. And that's how the

war can stop. And that's the position of the Ukrainian government, that's the position of the Ukrainian people, and the American position must be to arm and support them for as long as as necessary. And it's incumbent upon America's political leaders to communicate that, I think, with absolute with absolute clarity. It may cost more and real dollars next year and

more than that. Whatever the number is, it's a big number, but it's one we can easily afford because we're a very rich country, and we're a country that spends such an extraordinary amount of money on its armaments that it's impossible for the Pentagon to pass an audit. So there's a lot of crocodile tiers around this issue. And the

underlying infection is the America first infection. We have seen a reawakened affinity for fascism, and there's always been part of the body politic, part of the leadership that has embraced it. Was some blindness, the authority impulse, the shiny uniform, the military parade, the dogmatic religiosity that is thinly veiled authoritarianism, and all of these, all of these things you get

to see play out with regard to Ukraine. And it's quite interesting to me the parallels between that affinity and affiliation towards Vladimir Putin as it compares to the affiliations towards Adolph Hitler. And you know, Tucker Carlson is very much a Father Kauflin type figure for the digital age. And the reality is that none of it is particularly surprising because of a version of it has already played out literally within a human lifetime, which is the astonishing

part with a whole society. Amniesia about what happens when a aggressive imperial country like Russia tries to aggrandize itself through acts of war and acts of war crimes, to enlarge its territory and to impose its will on people that it regards as less than and that's what's happening in Ukraine and the United States has to be at the center, not just of the armaments end of it, but in terms of making the moral argument in defense of liberty and freedom. That's so essential, I think.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. I think you're absolutely right. And you know, it is shocking to me to see that the United States so many people do not appreciate the parallels which is highlighted. That's the rise of Hitler. I mean, if you look at Putin, I think you'd be very hard priced to find people who followed Putin carefully who would not say there are very clear parallels to Germany in the thirties. The fact is that Letter Putin has already occupied other countries' territory.

He has created a it's not patriotism and then it is fascism. Truly, if you look at this ulternationalism within the population, the superiority of ethnic Russians, linguistic Russians. They don't use the word superior, but it's very clear what's being implied. What they're trying to say by it, the fact they've deemed everything that's foreign to be some similarti enemy in or country everything that's a foreign let's say, belief or religion or anything else is bad. It needs

to be stopped, stopped out. There is no free press in Russia. There hasn't been for a long time. They're not free trials in Russia or court processes. There is not by any means of free society. I mean a podcast such as this would absolutely free to bid in Russia. I mean your house will definitely get rated for something like that, and you wound up in the camps. I mean, listen, they have plenty of people in Russia sent to prison for years for doing something so small. It's pulling it

up aside. That just says no war. It's all says no war, no war, and you'll get years in prison. You get up to fifteen years in prison for that. Now, people stay outside of the Kremlin and you can find it videos online with a blank piece of paper. Just hold up a blank piece of paper. Doesn't say anything. But the shade absurdity of the police state is that they will arrest you and take you away. You will go to prison. This is not a joke. Russia is

a fascist state. Their brand washing their population, and this is you know, we throw that word around a lot in other countries that bit in the US, but this is something unparalleled. We've never had something like this. I mean, the social media such as Facebook and things there are not used. They have their own which is a direct copy paste of what Facebook looks like the conductor on the classicky they're called. They look exactly the same as

Facebook or no social media. They have their own chats like WhatsApp or signal. They have their own it's called telegram, which they use. They can monitor what the users do. They can monitor the users right, they can monitor which groups they join. And then when somebody is you know, they notice is engaging in behavior which is state does not sanctioned to come and raid their house. They do have, you know, all sorts of loyalty tests and verification of

people is to a degree. And and I know this is a far branch you got on, but I think it is a serious argument that it is worse today than it was in the Soviet Union. Simply the Soviet Union. I don't think they're the technological capacity to monitor the citizens as closely as they are now. They are able to monitor them on the most every level possible. Obviously, all their credit card data and everything else to make sure what they're percha seeing from whom you're purchasing, if

it's foreign or if it's domestic. They really keep tabs on their people and they live in fear, and people know that they can't joke about things. What's what's forbidden to talk about. It is a closed society. Increase in the closed society, and it isn't direct threat to the United States. And actually that, you know, I think that's one thing that anyone who's lost about the America or thinks this about Ukraine is absolutely wrong. Listen, Ukraine is the first step, and this is this is the first

stop on the metro. This is gonna keep going, and the next stop is going to be other countries. It is definitely going to be you know, the Moltogas or the Baltic States and then Poland's. And that's why the Baltic states in Poland have been so openly in favor of Ukraine or continue to assist it and to push US lawmakers as well to support it, is because they know it's their own self security that comes with this. But let's look at the repercussions we see Venezuela let's

take Guyana, that's not by coincidence. Venezuela is as close as it gets to Russia as possible. We see what's going on China and Tailan that's also related to what Russia. Russia showed is perhaps gonna be some permissibility if we do this, if especially if Trump were to come to power, and so we're going to start laying the cars up.

We see that Russia's leading its allies around the world Iran, for instance, cooperation with HESBA and Hamas, which by the way, Hamas was in meetings in Moscow in mid October.

Speaker 1

Uh.

Speaker 2

They've openly worked with organizations like this for years. Russia is a direct threat to the United States security globally and our allies, not just ours, our allies. So if anyone is so misguided as believers, well you know who cares if they take Ukraine. You know, if you're willing to look past a genocide, that's not going to turn your stomach. Okay, but let me argue that eventually it will be American soldiers that will die for this, have no doubt about this. US citizens will die as a

result of this decision. So right now, it's pay a little bit of money, less than five percent of the defense budget, and we can keep this far from our shores, protector Alice and protect her sons from having to go fight a war. Or we can say we're going to fight over this for these crocodiles. Here is about saving taxpayers money. And in fact, no, that's gonna be your sons at diamonds war, and it'll cost US hundreds of billions of dollars in the meantime.

Speaker 1

Well, save taxpayer money. We hire five thousand auditors to go in there and kick ass, right like a sealed team of auditors to deal with what Dwight Eisenhower warned about. But you know, look, the US Navy isn't big enough, the procurement process is shattered, the waste is profound, but

there's no choice. But two are in Ukraine. And I think that this has to be and elevate cause in the United States, and that there needs to be better communication about the matter as a as a whole, which is one of the reasons I wanted to have you on and talk about it today so that you know, people can get a better sense. But let me ask you this too, talk about what it is like to live in Kiev. Now are you moving around the country. How close are you to the combat zones in your coverage?

If at if at all? Are you primarily in the city? What is what is life like? Is there privation? Are there things you can't get on the stores? Is is life away from the frontline fairly normal? Is the air raid or the missile attack now a routine oze, you know, a routine part of the part of the day that you know people you know, we're just innoored to it. We talk about what life is like.

Speaker 2

So you know, it depends on where in the country you are, and it is quite a large country for European standards. I'm using in Kiev, the capital. In Kiev, there is routinely drone strikes, drum attacks. The drones are Iranian made primarily. They typically come in they're quite loud if historically them they've got chiry ones not to but that's you know, that sets off the air rate alarms. The air rate alarms also go off whenever a MiG Russian made airplane and Soviet made airplane takes off in

Belarus or in Russia that's near the border. Because they use the MiGs. The fire missiles. The the ballistic missiles are fired from the Mins into Ukrainian cities, so they target from you know, air and they fire into land targets here in Ukraine now obviously, I mean, thank god, in Kiev it's much quieter. That is, let's say, in an eastern part of the country. In eastern part of the country, it is I mean it's horrendous. I mean, the firing and the shooting doesn't stop. It does go constantly.

You can hear small arms artillerary, there's the drones hanging over head constantly. It is. It is World War One sort of conditions for the soldiers. It's winter and outs. I mean it's Ukraine, so it's cold, so they're in sub you know, zero temperatures outside in the snow, as as things are just exploding constantly, especially at night. The air rates tend to offs in this key as well

as in the front. Nighttime is when a lot of the big explosions happen because you know, it's harder to detect things such as drones or like its missiles as well. It's it's it adds confusion, but also that's terror. There's a whole population's woken up. Every night. Not every night. I mean it was quite for pure but yes, very f and go off a couple of times a night.

So if you're the local population and you're trying to sleep at nights and you're you know, this air raid which is out in the streets goes off and goes off, goes off, of course it's gonna wake you up. It's become normalized the sense that you know, I talked to her friends in the morning after an air raid and they talk about how their kids sleep in the bathroom specifically.

You know, the bathroom is not gonna have windows on everything else, so there's up being broken glass or shards coming through if something explodes outside, or they sleep in the hallway. There's one friend of mine who works in television news in Ukraine. Her or she's a single mother. The run just a rush raw missile was headed towards

Ky if the air defense fortunately shot it down. The downside is when you shoot down, when air defense shoots down a rocket or missile, it's still going to fall somewhere.

Speaker 1

Uh.

Speaker 2

In that case, I fell in her house and exploded. She her ten year old son was at home alone. She was at work. He heard the air raid alert and went to the basement by himself and fortunately survived. The house got completely destroyed, her car get destroyed, She's got nothing left, and she's literally she's living in the framework of that house now, which they've got a heater.

They put on some patch parts of the walls. But she was telling me it's about twelve degree centigrade, which I guess is probably the low forties mid forties of temperature during the day and night, and it's so it's cold, and she's living there with her son, and she was asking me if I could help them, And that's not uncommon. I've been plenty of people have had it sort of her fate and her case. You know, I look at it and say, it's incredible, what can be done for you?

In fact, this the government's broke International insurance is both the Messing insurance does not cover acts of war. As it does not cover acts of war, means you're just out of luck. You know, if your car gets total buyed or your house gets burned or blown up, as hersted, you've just lost your life savings. There's no way everything to recover it. Keep in mind, the average salary for a worker here such as herself. I don't know exactly what you got paid, but I'll guess to me it's

about seven hundred dollars a month. How will she ever be able to fix this damage? It's and she said it was asked to be twenty thousand to fix her house back to what it was. It was an inheritance from the Soviet period from her grandparents who had lived there. But how was she ever if you mixed one hundred I was a month to get twenty thousand. She'll never get'll never And so the reality is that she's going to live in destitute poverty unless a miracle comes through

sheets the job outside the country. But this is this sort of thing happens to people. I mean people Dan and Dana are struggling. Twenty six percent is the unofficial on.

Speaker 1

The twenty And she's a broadcast journalist.

Speaker 2

She works behind us the camera. She does not work behind it. She works behind the camera, not in front of the camera. But yes, so she was doing you know, different things for programming, but by profession, she was working with disabled children and as a psychologist for them. But there was trying to get a change of professions so she could be a home more with her son, and this is what happens. So she's a good person and that's what happens. Then you have the other situations here

in the country. You know, there's six point two million Ukrainian women and children who have left the country since the war began, primarily in Europe. Poland's the biggest country they've moved to. We know that there's been a host of prompts of them being abducted for sex trafficking all over the world. I meant to Turkey, to Middle East, all over the place, and women, well mostly the younger women, girls and children. But we also have you know, the

people that are lives are destroyed. I mean, they've got no future once they've left Ukraine, they have no community, they don't know what to do. They have been outside the country before, so they just sort of left to their own luck of the wind. But within the country, as it say, it's twenty six percent unemployment rate, that's official, it's presumed to be much higher. It's quite a bit destitution. There is not everything that they used to be in

stores by any means. It's become much harder, uh, including things like medical eriods and stuff like that things that are more expensive because there's much less demands. Uh. You see a lot of store fronts that are closed. There used to be all open. It was very vibrant, I'm gonna say, keV. I mean was a lot of fun. All the cities I've been to in Europe, which is right number, Uh, this was by far the most fun. Cub was a great city. And it's just it's it's dying. And it's simply dying because you.

Speaker 1

Know, is there anyone in the restaurants? Are their restaurants open or their bars open or there? You know, as you pointed out, it was a vibrant, vibrant city place I've been to more than more than once. What is there? Is there any social activity that's carrying on, any type of normalcy you know that you would expect in a great city.

Speaker 2

I mean, yeah, there are there are some restaurants open. A lot I've gone out of business, but there are some open. There are some you know, cafes open, coffee shops. Once again, the quantity is much less than what was before, but it's it's it's no the nightlife, I mean for execos, it's non existent for that matter. You know, there's a curfew in the country due to the state of war and the martial law. So it's by midnight people off to be home, which is especially here in the capital

in the eastern parts of country, strictly obeyed. Because I have a journalistic pass, an ID military d I'm allowed to be out. Passes are so I have walked just so curiosity to see if it's strictly obeyed. But I can assure you it's strictly obayed. There are no cars out past midnight until five am, and that's very very simple reason. I mean, it is one in the early days of where there's a lot of seven tours that were catching Russians and people assisting the Russians to give

the positions. But at this point, you know, a lot of the military reposition of technologies happens tonight. So I think it's to try to keep taps on that and also try to control I mean, it's you know, I don't think most people would, but just the hypothetical. I don't think it's necessarily good for the morale that people are going to nightclubs in the midst of a war, which they're not because they're not open, they're closed. So

that's not happening. People aren't going out and drinking all night. That's not happening. It is much more of a controlled situation. But people realize that there's an existential battle of their country's engage. And when you talk to people, I assure you just go and you know, ask them how to do it, and ask them, do you know if there's anyone in the war, anyone personally who's in the war. One percent chance they will tell you about their friends

and family in the war. More than likely than that, at this point they will mention who has died or been permanently injured in the war. When you rock down men sheet the street in the key of this ko kushetik, one thing you'll notice is and you know, I had never paid attention to it. A Polish journalist was here last month and he knowed this when we were walking down the street. And I guess, I'm sure, like the frog that's in the boiling water, I didn't realize if

it's something here every day, it's getting worse. If I didn't notice it is you notice the number of amputees. The number of amputees is really staggering. And I just never appreciate it because it's just you know, every day it's a little bit more. But at this point, yeah, you see quite a bit double amputees. Otherwise, you see people with facial burns, they're they're pounched up, you see things with just you know, horrible things have happened people

in the Horses War. And it's not just soldiers, there's plenty of civilians.

Speaker 1

Yet the morale of the country remains high. Yeah, it is defiant, it.

Speaker 2

Remains define because the listeners, to be fair, they themselves believe what is true that if Putin were to take something like Kiev, he will send their children off to Russia. The younger girls will become the prostitutes of the Russian soldiers. They will be tortured, that men will go the forced than to fight against western Ukrainians. As the Russians move further west, they will send those men off to become canafather.

Everything of value here will be robbed or eluded, They will destroy anything of cultural value, because this is what Russia has done throughout eastern Ukraine. Russia has routinely done this. This is a genocide or mayor Viar Putin is up at the International Criminal Court International arrest war for charges of trafficking in children. He's up on stealing children and deporting them to Russia. This is what the Russia, Matarizi gets.

This is not just you know, geopolitics, which is an important and going to discuss, but this is actual genocide taking place. The UN commissions looking to this is called the same conclusions. This is terrifying and it's happening today. And the fact that people think of this is in terms of oh, that's a Biden issuer. You know, that's not good for Trump or whatever. People the confines or context that they add to it, please ignore it. Just

look at what's going on in the grounds. I think as Americans we should defend freedom and value such as our own US who support America, such as the Greens. We we should be doing what we can to to fight off this new wave of fascism.

Speaker 1

It's a perfect place to leave it. Jason Smart, thank you so much. Stay safe, and Keeve, thank.

Speaker 2

You, Steves. I appreciate it. H

Transcript source: Provided by creator in RSS feed: download file
For the best experience, listen in Metacast app for iOS or Android