This is Steve Schmidt and welcome to another edition of the Warning Podcast. And today I am really happy to bring you Chris Whipple. He is the investigative reporter, the political journalist who has written the book that is in the news detailing what happened in the twenty twenty four election. The name of the book is Unchartered, How Trump beat Biden, Harris and the odds in the wildest campaign in history. There is a profound issue, in my view, that is
raised in this book. It's the second of three books that have been talked about publicly that will be coming out that look at the White House decision making and Biden's condition, the implications of it, all the consequences of the decision, the accountability for that decision, and of course the full magnitude, dude of the crisis. Right now, we're going to get into it with Chris Whipple. But when you read this book, and it's urgent that you do
read this book, buy this book. You need to understand the dynamics of power and this book will help you do that. And when I read these books, what they are is first drafts of history. This will be an issue that is studied in the United States fifty years from now, seventy five years from now, it will have as long in endurance as did the questions around Edith Wilson's decisions during that administration and how she handled her
incapacitated husband. Now Edith Wilson after President Wilson had a stroke, never relented from her conviction that she did the right thing and did what Woodrow Wilson would have wanted her to do. Of course, if you have responsibility for maintaining a constitutional republic, it was the wrong thing to do. The continuity of constitutional powered succession does not flow through
the president's wife. And so, with no further ado, I want to bring Chris Whipple into the conversation and get started. And so Chris, I said that I look at the book as a first draft of history. But how did you look at it as you were writing it? And what was your intention to try to find out, explore and bring to the reader and do doing this because obviously there's going to be a lot of books written about this, and so why were you like I have to write one about this?
Yeah, first, Steve, great to be with you, Honored to be here. I was writing a different book under contract for HarperCollins in the summer of twenty twenty four. It was to be a book about presidential campaign managers from
nineteen sixty eight to the present. When suddenly, that fateful weekend of July twenty twenty one, the bottom fell out of the political world, and when Biden dropped out, I said to myself, I can't do both books, but this is the book I have to do the twenty twenty four campaign, because it's the political story of the century,
and it reed it needed my full time attention. I thought I was uniquely qualified to do it because not because I'm smarter than anybody else, but because I had sources within Biden world and Trump world, and I ultimately got them in Harris world as well to tell the stories I think nobody else could have done. So that's why I felt it was compelling, but mostly for history, because it's just this was a book that had to
be written and had to be done fast. I called my boss at HarperCollins, Lisa Sharky, who's a force of nature, and she immediately agreed to put her team behind it, and off I went.
What has the reaction been to the book by the people who are featured in the book. Ron Klain, Steve Schetty, Mike Donaldan, do they believe they were fairly treated in the book.
Here's the thing. I can't answer that question satisfactorily because I've only really been in contact with Ron playing since the book came out, and as you know, it came out yesterday. It's been making headlines for a while because of an excerpt I did in Vandy Fair two excerpts and other stuff. But here's the thing, Steve, It's it's the it's the strangest and wildest story you can imagine
behind closed doors. My view is that Karl Rove got it wrong when he said that this was a gigantic conspiracy. I don't think. I don't believe this was a cover up in the Watergate sense of the word. It was stranger and wilder and every bit as troubling as that.
What I think happened was that Biden's inner circle convinced themselves, including Ron Klain, and we can talk about him because you know you need you need a master psychologist to explain what happened with him, But they managed to convince themselves that Biden could somehow win this thing, that he could run, that he could win, and that they could
all stay in power for another four years. Now, Klaan is the real, as the New York Times book review put it in my I can't quote them exactly, but the reviewer said, you know, how do you how do you possibly reconcile these two Ron Klains Clain told me in devastating detail just how wobbly and out of it Joe Biden was during the debate prep a camp. David and nobody else has that story. Ron told it to me in detail. The floodgates open and he and he gave me a blow by blow description of how Biden
was out of it. He was he couldn't really explain what he wanted to do in a second term. He was obsessed with Emmanuel McCrone and ol Off Schultz and kept talking about how they think I'm a great president, so I'm must be. He half jokingly thought that Biden thought he was president of NATO instead of the US. He at one point the president left aspen Lodge just got up, walked out to the pool, sank into a lounge chair, and fell sound asleep. They managed to entice
him back later in the day. I could go on. But here's the long, winted answer. But to get back to your original question, how do you reconcile the ron Klain who witnessed that disastrous debate prep prior to that terrible debate, and the ron Klain who a few weeks later was fighting to keep Joe Biden in the race at almost any cost. He wanted to die on that hill. He thought that Biden should stay on as the nominee. And we can talk about it. It's it's hour by hour.
It's an amazing behind the scenes story. So I've talked to Ron he has said he hasn't disputed a single thing that I've reported, except he says I had the framing wrong. He thinks that Joe Biden's condition had to do with his poor preparation by the White House aides
who succeeded him. He doesn't mention, he doesn't name Jeff Science, but he's clearly talking about Science and his team and thought that they failed somehow to prepare Biden for the debate, prep that he And it makes no sense to me because again, you know is Biden wanders out and falls asleep in a lounge chair by the pool and that's somehow Jeff science is fault. I don't think so.
Does wrong claim have any sense of discernible shame and chense of discernible guilt? Do any of these people in this moment look at what is happening to this country and appreciate that this is what will be carved on their gravestones.
It's the you know, it's the sixty four thousand dollars question, and I don't know the answer to it.
Steve.
You know again, I've been in contact with Ron and since the book came out, and again he disputes what he calls the framing of of that pre debate.
Prep As we get deeper into the conversation, I'm only going to stop you to challenge not you, obviously, but what I think is a nonsense concept.
I've also got a siren going by, so this is a good time to pok.
I can't hear it. The country is besieged by incoherence, by nonsense talk, the tariffs, the math. This is a White House chief of staff, a person who has, through appointment, held tremendous power, tremendous responsibility, is called on to exercise judgment. And his answer to this is now you got the framing wrong. Well, what does that mean? What could it conceivably mean? Because the book makes clear an extraordinary and vivid detail, unrefuted, that the president of the United States
is just utterly incapacitated. And you know that because Ron Klain tells you that, and then Ron Klain does everything he can conceivably do to maintain the incapacitated president in a political campaign that all of the campaign experts, starting with David Pluff, appreciate. They've been behind from day one, that they can't win, and they're telling the country A. He's fine, b they're winning. C. Biden is the only candidate who can beat Trump, though d He's losing to
Trump and he's incapacitated. And ron Claim comes back and he says, no, you have the narrative wrong. What does that mean? Yeah, no, I don't.
I don't know what it means either, except let me just let me just say one thing in fairness to their belief that this guy could actually run again, and that is, there are some inconvenient facts here from the point of view of people who say this was a gigantic conspiracy and everybody knew that Biden was incapacitated, and I knew.
But here's the thing. Listen, Listen. I knew in twenty twenty two because I consume news and I watched television. I said it would be a national catastrophe if he ran again. I knew, and you were right, and I what and and the Congress knew. Democratic Congress Nan Dean Phillips talks about that on a podcast. Joe Biden had gone into a conference launch and he was utterly incoherent. So one of the great lies in this is that nobody knew. The most astonishing aspect of these three books
is the next one. Jake Tapper is going to write a book, and Jake Tapper's asking questions about the Biden cover up. It is madness. Well, no, I agree with you, type of madness that you're seeing play out with Trump and the tariffs precisely.
But here's the thing, Steve, here's the stunning thing that is absolutely inexplicable to me, but absolutely fascinating, and that is I am convinced that these guys, the inner circle, and I'm talking about Mike donald On, Steve Shetty, Bruce Reid, the people, the real inner circle, they were closer than science, the chief of staff to the President. They watched that debate on June twenty seventh, and they convinced themselves that this was just a quote unquote bad night. They truly
believed that. And I'll give you an example. Anita don one of his closest advisers, was watching a so called dial group, a focused group of people turning dials up and down, registering their reaction. And after Biden had his meltdown and said we finally saved Medicare, when any reasonable objective observer would have said, he's he can't go on, he's he's had a stroke or something, something is terribly wrong, they convinced themselves that Biden had actually won that debate.
And here's this is now. Anita Don said, look after that moment, which was the worst moment arguably, Trump said a lot of outrageous things, as he always does, and dials were, dials were being dialed downward, and she said, you know, I think we picked up some votes. I kid you not, that is what she thought, and that wasn't spent. I think she believed it. I know that. Just to finish I know that Mike Donalon again, he well, let me before I get to Donald. Several months later,
I'm at the White House. I interviewed Rashetti and Reid and they were still in this force field of denial. They were convinced that the party had lost its mind, that it had walked away from a guy who won eighty one million votes in twenty twenty and that he would have won this time around. Donaldon went to the Kennedy School and told the assembled audience that the same thing that and Donalon was convinced. So that's the depth of delusion and denial here.
That was my next question. He was as he was convinced or he's delusional both, perhaps delions both.
Perhaps you look anybody, anybody who's ever had to take the car keys away from an octagenarian father. Grandfather knew that Joe Biden had no business running for reelection in twenty twenty four at the age of eighty two, showing the effects of aging that everybody could see, but they they believed what they wanted to believe instead of their lying eyes. In effect, that's to me what is so unbelievably strange and fascinating about the book. And of course I get into the detail.
So we apply a standard I apply a standard does not give the benefit of the doubt to the MAGA folks, to Donald Trump's cabinet. When you look at Pete Hegsath and Tulci Gabbert and Mike Wall's on the signal chat conducting military operations, I try and think, is there any conceivable analogy that equals it with regard to recklessness? And there is you just described. And so you also opened another door to the competency of these people that Aneda done.
And I think this is so important to focus on the incompetence and competence and how crazy politics in the United States is. Okay, you have a woman who watched that debate happened, and I want everyone who's watching this to appreciate this. You watched the debate. I knew what was going on in that debate. Some I would say, at a at a maximum thirty seconds in right and I and I have a social media post within two
minutes that makes clear. So she watches that said no, no, no, we won because people had a dial in their hands. And you have an entire generation of Democratic candidates who literally cannot speak an English sentence in front of an American voter until they have someone like I need it done, tell them what to say because of what the dial said, and what the dial said was Joe Biden won.
That was crazy. And look, I'm not saying that this in any way excuses what Biden's inner circle did. I think history is going to judge them harshly. I think that this was a debacle of epic proportions.
It left the betrayal of the country. It was. It was a betrayal of the country of the highest magne kid.
It was an abdication of leadership for sure, all the way around. And look, and not just of Biden's inner circle, but of Democrats who failed to step up and challenge Biden, as you know, as Bill Dailey put it to me, you know, none of them had any freaking balls. Nobody would step up, and nobody of consequence would step up and challenge.
So let's step back and we'll come back to the White House players. But I want to talk about the concept of cover up and I want to react specifically to something you said here. Okay, So yeah, I saw you say on Tara tar palm Aery's podcast about this that I wanted that I was interested and I wanted to talk through with you. And what you said was that it was not a cover up in the Watergate style. Yeah, And as soon as you said that, I saw, I'm
gonna ask you a question, and you're coming on. And obviously it's not a Watergates style cover up, but for no other reason. The water state, the Watergate style cover up began in nineteen seventy two, but you would acknowledge that cover ups did not begin with Watergate. Sure, yeah, okay, so I was yes or no? Does this meet your definition of a cover up?
My answer would be it's stranger and more inex applicable than a cover up. It is a case of the most powerful, all the presidents, men and women, lost in a fog of denial and delusion. And to me, that's equally dangerous, if not more so. And here's here's here's what they knew. And they knew this going way back, and you could certainly define this as a cover up. What they knew going back to twenty twenty was that
Joe Biden couldn't campaign effectively at all. They hit him in the basement, as we all know, to use that cliche. And there's a scene in the book that I described that's really compelling When a former a Democratic operative from the twenty twenty campaign comes to interview for a job
on the twenty twenty four campaign. She's in the oval office with the president and his aides, and the conversation takes an unexpectedly to turn when they say to her, one of the aides, you know what, in twenty twenty, we had COVID, We had the excuse to keep him in the basement.
What do we do now?
So there was no doubt about it that there was a cover up of Biden on the campaign trail. For sure. It wasn't the first time that, you know, somebody tried to hide a presidential candidate. And I mean, Jerry Ford was such a lousy candidate that the Great, the Great Steve's Spencer, sorry, the Great Stuve Spencer said to him when he wanted to go barnstorming and campaigning, And Ford said why not? Spencer said, because you're a lousy fucking candidate.
And Ford took a drag on his pipe and said, oh, all right then.
But so it was the.
First time, but there was a there was They knew, without a doubt, they knew that they had to minimize his time on the Camp Pain Trail and his interactions with others.
Okay, so after twenty twenty, Joe Biden called me true story. I saw a DC number and I called it back and man answered the phone, and I just said, who's this and he says it's Joe. I said, Joe. Hib It goes. Joe Biden was as I mister President elect. He goes, I just want to thank you. I would not have won this election without the Lincoln Project. And
that's true, he would not have. Lincoln Project raises one hundred million dollars, has a billion dollars of impact, is denounced by the left and the Democratic Washington Consultants is ineffective. Is the only opposition group in that year right that lays a glove on him, crushes him, destabilizes the campaign. In twenty twenty four, I haven't been involved in the group for four years. This group is now a grift, raises fifty five million dollars in four years. It pockets
ninety percent of it. Eleven percent is spent on political activity. That's a big business. Yeah, Okay, so there is an industry that surrounds the inner circle that protects him. So what you are describing is an inner circle of people who are deluded in a fog. And I think it is easy to say from there, these are well intentioned people, and they did a bad thing in the end, but
it was out of love for this guy. Because there's that moment that comes for us where you have to take dad's keys away from the car, and that's not what this is. This is the most powerful man in the world. This is the President of the United States. Every one of these people in the White House raised their hand. They took an oath not to Joe Biden, the Constitution of the United States, and they had an obligation to the American people. And so I don't think
it's as benign as what you said because I experienced it. Okay, I experienced what happened when you went out. So what I want to say is they were belligerent, they were aggressive, they shouted down, they punished, they retaliated, and in my case, progressive groups filed complaints with the FEC. Weaponizing government against the political opponent. Sounds familiar. So when I look at the core, we have all these people and we'll come back there. But then there's the circle around it, right
there's the bulwarks Tim Miller. So, Tim Miller, prominent guy, former RNC Press secretary, Jeb Bush press secretary. This is the guy who's never been involved in a winning campaign. Right, is a political gadfly. He's in the business of never Trump defines political courage. You can find him online jumping out of a bush at that nut from Arizona, Carrie Lake Grady stalks term. He's on the line at the
White House Christmas Party receiving line. And for any of you who have not ever been around a president, it's just protocols. The head of escape Tim Miller. Literally he chocks everybody on this line. He jumps up out of the line and he hugs Joe Biden. Biden, of course is out of it, but he says to Bid, I'll do anything to keep you in this job. Yeah, debate happens, of course. Tim Miller is one of the first people he's got to get out. But when Dean Phillips went out,
Tim Miller is a perfect example. Right, he's the hit man. I'm a grifter, I'm a this, I'm a that, I'm a well like Dean Phillips, I'm a war criminal. Because how Darren, whether it's Tim Waltz, the idea though that it was four people in it, and they saw bullshit. It was an entire political party. And so the fundamental question that every candidate is going to have to answer in twenty twenty eight is this one. Why did Biden lose? Now, in the spirit of name that tune you asked, I
Tim Walts that question right or one of them? Nobody can answer that that question coherently because of the cost and the price of being yoked and tied to this monstrous cover up that led to Trump. Because the answer to the question of how Trump won, I want to
give you an answer as a political consult. Okay, my previous side, old Trump was elected president of the United States, the most prolific liar in American history, because on fundamental questions of honesty, on the border, on the economy, and on Biden's fundamental fitness, the dishonest candidate in the race, the liar in the race was Joe Biden, and the honest candidate in the race on those issues was Donald Trump.
And in the end, the cheapest words in American politics turned out to be I'm a Biden.
Trust me, Well, I might argue with you about about Trump and the border, for example, because you know his only interest in the border was using it as a as a political Cudgelty.
Did did the Biden administration tell the American people the border was secure? The border is not secure.
Now listen, I'm not arguing that they did a good job on the border by enemies, but the other thing, Steve, just to circle back to your other point, I would not necessarily argue with any of the points you've made, except to say that I've never suggested, nor am i today suggesting that there was anything benign about what these guys and women in the Inner Circle did. It was, it was, It's resulted in a tragedy, and and and
that's really what my book is about. It's it's about what happened behind closed doors that is stranger than you could possibly imagine. Because at the end of the day, whether whatever their motive might be, and it and that may be you know, above my pay grade and may require your motive, was power, a psychologist, power they.
Want they their motive was power. Every one of those keep knew that they would never ever again in their lives be walking up the stairs behind the President on Air Force one and flying on Marine one and being in the White House and architecting history.
And I can't rule that out of the motive they wanted.
They wanted another hit on that pipe as much as Hunter Biden wanted another hit on his crack pipe at the lowest points of his exdiction. That's why now.
But Steve, that oversimplifies the story that I tell in my book because in my view that while while their motives may well have been what you'd described, I am convinced that they were convinced that Biden could win this thing, and to this day they are convinced of that. It's maybe deluded, but Exhibit A is the fact that they sent him out onto that stage on June twenty seventh to go toe to toe with Donald Trump after a disastrous debate prep in which they knew, should have known
that he wasn't up to it. They sent him out there anyway. They thought he could win it. That's what's so but wild about this story.
Let's talk about Jill Biden and Hunter Biden in her role in this. So sure, I have Chuck Todd on a couple of weeks ago, and Chuck Todd said something It was brutal. It was trip. I've thought it, and I have very few unexpressed thoughts in terms of I just don't have the guts to say that something that's trip. And he said this was a guy with two adult drug addicted kids after the death of his eldest son in twenty nineteen. The family isn't chaos. It's like, this
is the time for me to run for president. So she wants the power too. What's her wrong?
Well, look, her role is that she was always there to support Joe and whatever Joe wanted to do. We can't know exactly what happened behind closed doors, and particularly, you know, can you imagine being Joe Biden's wife during that debate on June twenty seventh.
Well, and why was Joe Biden's wife or husband or whatever. My spouse wouldn't have been running for president. So what I want to understand is her psychological disorder or what's making her tick, because it's not an act of love. It was an act of cruelty, and it was an act of despicable betrayal again towards the country which she had the high honor to serve as first Lady. Is she wanted more.
Well, whatever her motive may have been, she was certainly all in with Joe power. She was all in with Joe. And look, I mean, I write about the fact that right after that debate, minutes later, back at the Atlanta Hotel, she's gushing about what a great job he did and how he answered all the questions.
She's doing that because she has to compensate. Is the spouse because she believes it because someone told her to say it, Like, what's happening there? Is she taking command? Is she saying that you have all betrayed him, that it's the prep that was the problem, not his sentience. What's happened?
I think we can know for sure what she was thinking. All we can know for sure is that she was all in. She was all in. And you know, we can't know if behind closed doors she said, Joe, listen, I'm worried. You need to see a doctor. You need to have an exam. We don't know, but every indication we have was that she was all in for Joe to just keep going. And that's you have.
A thorough neurological exam. In twenty twenty four, twenty twenty three.
I do not know the answer to that question. And if somebody produces they failed neurological exam or or you know, some deep sixed Parkinson's diagnosis that I'm not aware of, I'll salute and say, yeah, that was a classic cover up. But I think it was so much more complex and fascinating to me again and inexplicable. You know, you need a degree in psychology or to know much more about the human mind to explain what happened here.
Let's let's go back now to the inner circle, because again it's a vast apparatus surrounding this the party. Everyone is in on it. You talk about the debate, I want to ask you specifically about Valerie Biden's reaction in the in the aftermath of it. But when the Biden team is now in this period before Kamala Harris gets into the race, and we start with from the thirty seconds into the debate, most people I professionally recognize this as a disaster. I needed done. She has the dials,
so the dials told her this is good. Joe Biden has come out of this, and she's like, this is great. When does it start to that there was a fire in the house, right and people respond to that not good. Is the kitchen Okay, the kitchen's gone, It's all gone. Right, When does it start to when does reality sink in?
Well, almost immediately, I think reality starts to sink in. They're still in denial about it, the Internet circle, they're still fighting back, and Done was aggressively going after anybody who suggested that it was more than just a bad night.
What does that mean when you say he's going after people aggressively, how does that manifest it?
Well, just just publicly denouncing the suggestion and in no uncertain terms. You know, even Geno Mallley Dylan, the usually clear eyed chair of the of the campaign for Biden, evidently convinced herself that well, not that many people saw the debate anyway, fifty people watched it, right, So it's just it's just amazing. But what happened was, and I described this in the book, really day by day, hour by hour, starting.
With Valerie, I asked you a bunch there, so we got Jill Biden's over here, Anita don is saying the dials have said, and Valerie Biden has a different reaction.
At twelve thirty am. And I report this in the book. The evening the night of the debate, one of Joe Biden's best friends looks at his phone. It's buzzing, he answers it. It's Valerie Biden Owens, the president's sister, and she is distraught and weeping and shouting, And the first thing she says to Joe Biden's close friend is what did they do to my brother at Camp David. From that point she was mostly incoherent and ultimately hung up
the phone. The next morning she called back. She was lucid and pissed off, and again was complaining to Biden's friend. How could they possibly have arrived at the CNN just minutes before the debate? How could he have had such lousy makeup? How did they make him look like Dorian Gray? She went on and on and on and laying this all at the feet of the debate prep team. Although she didn't mention Ron Klain by name, Ron was running in look I mean again, Readers can judge for themselves.
What was that all about? Was it a sister's denial? Just is reflexive twining to pin it on anybody but her beloved brother?
What was it?
I don't know, He hasn't otherwise.
So we have Jill Biden. He did great and needed done the dial hose he won Valerie Owens at someone else's fault. Hunter Biden is at the strategy table in the White House as a core decision maker with his father. Really, I guess in the way that George W. Bush was with his father in nineteen eighty eight.
Well, Hunter was there during that period in the White House. To what extent he was making any decisions, I don't who knows.
Was he in the senior most councils of decision making.
He was there for a period of time. And Hunter, as you know, would show up at White House events and you know, almost the way Elon musk Waltz is into the Oval Office today. He was just there and Joe Biden and listen Biden. Biden really leaned on him for advice. I think that's true.
So again, right, I I've written extensively about this, right, and I I've lambasted the Republicans for the cruelty. I say, it was obvious to me that politics has gone so off the rails that you you had a you had an orchestrated effort that was aimed at breaking Hunter Biden and trying to induce a suicide. And and I, you know, I pray for Hunter Biden, right I I I you know, he's somebody in recovery, and and I hope Hunter Biden
makes it. But Hunter Biden had no business sitting in the West wing of the White House being involved in any discussion right with anybody with security clearances. He took a constitutional oath about whether this should go on, right, it's immoral for him to be in there, right for a lot of different reasons. But if he's going to participate in that conversation, that's a conversation that takes place upstairs in the residents right at the table. That's a
family decision, right. But nobody says, hey, Hunter Biden shouldn't be here with this small group of insiders. And the one thing that unites all of them from Hunter is that is that Joe Biden's got to be president for four more years. And so finally what happens that is
the determinative thing. Just take us through into that to that final end where Harris is going to uh is going to get the call, How does she find out when is the first time the two of them them talk and then I want to I want to talk about something that I want to talk about two other things on the back of that in the hour, I want to talk about the media role in this, which
is profound. But you get the end of the campaign, there's this event that takes place in Arlington where the Harris is and Doug Kamala Harris and Doug Ema offer there and Jill Biden comes in and she very clearly snubs Kamala Harris at this event, right, ice ice cold interaction, completely unprofessional, obvious, right, you know, as you're as you're watching this, and no one really covered it and talked about it, right, but I mean you could see the
bad blue blood right pouring through through the television. So so with that in mind, right, knowing that there's very hard feelings, right, just like very precisely like in the in the chain of events. And I wrote today on my thing it's you know, this is the one hundred and sixty fifth anniversary of the surrender of Robert Lee to Grant, and I published an excerpt from from Grant's autobiography, really the details right of all the you know, I come up to Wilma McLean's house and this is what
went down. Right, So in that sense, right, you know, it just even to us maybe even like a little mundane, right, like, just take me to an hour before, to approximate moment before he's getting out, How it goes down, how she finds out, and why the bad blood.
Well, first of all, this is the really the heart heart of the story, the heart of the book. Although I have planning on the campaign itself and on Harris and Trump, but those final hours in the before that fateful weekend of July twenty twenty one, that Sunday the twenty first being the day he stepped away, it was just unbelievable. Behind closed doors on the subject of Hunter, let me just mention briefly that no, it was not it was certainly not a career enhance her to challenge
Hunter in any way around Joe Biden. That's how Anita had done. Ultimately fell out with Joe Biden in the final days before he stepped away. It was because her husband, Bob Bauer, the president's attorney, had dared to suggest that Hunter should lower his profile and because it was causing the president political problems. Well, that was not well received by Joe Biden. And so Anita done and Bob Bauer really fell out, fell from grace, but in the inner circle,
absolutely fascinating. And one of the stories I tell in great detail is how Biden's original chief of staff, Ron Klain, to circle back to him, really was in a kind of showdown with his current chief Jeff Zience. At the
very end, Klain went to Science. Clain was convinced, despite having presided over that DISASTERUS debate prep, he was still convinced that Biden should be at the top of the ticket, that what they needed to do was rally the progressives and have a hundred of them walk out on the White House lawn with Joe Biden and he would somehow rescue his nomination. And he's calling Jeff Science and saying, Jeff,
you got to rally the progressives. What's going on? You know, why isn't he Why isn't he meeting with the progressives right now? And Zien said, look, you know, we're working on it, And Clain just really lowered the boom on him and said, the presidency's at stake here anyway. That that whole dynamic between the two them was fascinating. So those final days are pretty amazing. On the twentieth, twentieth twenty first that weekend, that's Sunday, Biden had gone radio silent.
He wasn't calling the White House. One advisor said he suspected something was up, but nobody knew for sure. Rochetti, Steve Roschetti, and Mike Donolan arrived Sunday morning. Biden was on the phone working out the details of that multi nation prisoner swap. He finally comes out and they have that pivotal historic talk to three of them, and Raschetti lays it out, says that the polls that claims argues that there is still a path for Joe Biden. It's going to be brutal, It's going to be bloody.
Well, I mean just I mean from a competence perspective, it's delusional. It's is he Is he delusional or is he incompetent? Or is it both? I don't know. He's a I don't know. I know Steve Schetty is a Biden insider, is a Washington lobbyist, right, he was a DC lobbyist, right, a generational hanger on, right who gets into this job. Right, So I have no idea, right if his political acumen on the one twe hundred scale
is point zero five. It sounds like it, right. If that's what his conclusion was, well.
That was his conclusion, and that he could still and moreover that he would he was still all in if if the president wanted to run, if he wanted to go ahead. What they all knew the fact that none of them could sugarcoat? Was there knowledge that the party leaders, Pelosi and the rest of them in all likelihood, come Monday morning would have come out publicly against Joe Biden
being on the ticket, and they knew it was game over. Uh, And yet there they were saying, boss and effect not in so many words, but if you want to run, we're with you. So again stunning, stunning, delusional in my view behavior. But to this day, if you sit down with Mike donal On and ask him if Joe, if if Joe Biden should have should have stayed on the ticket, he will tell you. He will look you in the eye and say absolutely the party lost its mind walking away from it.
Has the Democratic Party lost its mind to the degree that it's possible that any of these people will be around another presidential campaign? Ever?
Again, you look, you would you could answer that better than I could, Steve, having been in that world.
It's not it's not because it's not a loss. Right, this wasn't this wasn't about I mean, this is the egregiousness of this. And I'm just like, I'm genuinely curious. Right is in time in a needed in Needa done and Bob Bauer Right? Democratic power couple? Right? Is is she in her mind's eye? Is she a a? I guess that the word used to be the gray beard? Is she a Washington gray beard? A A A powerful you know advisor.
I honestly don't know what they think.
Where do these people fit into in their view in the Democratic Party? Right now, I'll give you a specific example. I said this when when I said this in January, this is very obvious to me. And and this is I would bet a lot of money on this. Joe Biden will not have a presidential library, not like Obama, not like Reagan, not like Bush. Bush's right. You know, I'm a University of Delaware graduate. David Pluff and I
were the founding fellows of the By and Center. Right you know there that you know, whatever the vice presidential gialt there'll be there'll be some facility that'll be at the University of Delaware, but there's not going to be a presidential library. Maybe none of that stuff.
Once again, I mean, I would say that, you know, history will come down very hard on Joe Biden and his inner circle. It's it's hard to imagine them suddenly being, you know, at the side of another presidential candidate. But I have no idea what there what they think their future is. All right, I am I didn't answer your question about how Kamala found out, but but I can do that briefly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah.
So you know what happened was that there's no evidence I know of that she knew it would happen on that day, July twenty one. But what I can tell you, and what I report exclusively in the book, is that prior to that weekend, she had privately secretly put out the word the Democratic Operatives to pore over the rules make sure figure out how she could seize the nomination as quickly as possible in the event that Biden stepped away, and Lorraine Voles, her chief of staff, had been looking
at what might happen. Ever since Biden had had to have a colonoscopy and seed power for one day. A couple of years prior, they were looking at this, and people were getting phone calls about the rules, and there was even pressure on some senators to drop, to come out against Byron on Monday.
Is that where the bad blood is from?
That's my reporting, and it may well be. It may well be. She got the call, you know, at the Naval Observatory. She was in the kitchen with a grand niece, I believe, and she said when she got the call, Biden said, listen, I'm I'm dropping out. She said, are you sure?
Are you? Are you? You know?
She she acted, She certainly acted surprised. I don't think that she knew it was coming at that moment.
So I want to I want to kind of as we as we wrap this up again, Right, this is a really important book. It's a extraordinarily important first draft of history. I mean, fifty years from now, historians will be writing about this, and and they will be going in a book right as as a as a first right as as you know, as they get into the archives. Right, there's gonna there's gonna be one hundred books writing about this, right, whatever, whatever,
the ultimate what over? The ultimate number is I skimmed the first one, you know, they kind of yours is the one right that I was looking forward to. Right this, this is what happened. I think Alex Thompson at Axios is a very good reporter and he was one of the very few reporters I think he's Biden look the way president should be covered. Alex Thompson is the real deal, and he's one of the best political reporters in the country.
And so he announced as a book and he's doing it with Jake Tapper, and so that you look at a duo and I don't know how they write this book together. I'll be I'll be honest, because you got one guy who sought the truth and helped Biden new account, and you got another guy who I think is a totem of how the media covered this, which is to
ignore it. So I mean, very simple. You can go back and see what Dean Dean, how Jake Tapper covered Dean Phillips walking out, which was an act of courage, right to say, like we still have time, but it was too late, and of course Dean was was completely right, but generally astonished I mean this did anybody in Jake Tapper's position would have a lack of self awareness. He's written books before. I mean, you can write a book
about a thousand different things. He's going to write about this and so this, this does not happen.
In the world of Dan Rather and of Peter Jennings and of Tom Brocaw and of the world of a ABC News such as it.
Was, or see ES News such as it was during your during your careers, So right, MSNBC, CNN, how do you evaluate their role in this? And I'm asking because contact between the people you wrote about and now, for example, Jake tapp Topper who's writing about what happened, was constant, and that constant contact was on the basis, if if you report the truth about Joe Biden, you'll be punished, There'll be a retribution against you. There won't be a
guest will deny you access. So there's no story that I'm aware of, right that that looked at this issue, right and just objectively right, CNN or anything you're aware of right that, Like, we're a Jake Tapperson, we gont to figure out what's going on here. We got Sandre Goodd at this network. Right, We're we're gonna go report this story. Did did did that happen anywhere in your mind that I missed?
Yeah, I guess I would. I guess Steve, I would say that, you know, the same way Reagan didn't want to speak ill of any Republicans that that. I don't want to.
I don't want I don't want to judge like lawyers. Huh.
I don't want to judge my competitors.
One of the one of the one of the things, one of the things, one of the things I just laughing at. I said, finally, right, an event has occurred, Right, that will get lawyers to criticize other lawyers. Right, we finally we've breached the thing. But we have not breached the line yet where journalists will criticize.
Right, We're not going to go after each other. And having said that, I guess, Look, I guess I would say to readers, you know their book is not out until what why wait?
What?
Pick pick up uncharted?
Pick up my book? Now? I think that Unchartered is an essential book, and I want to I just want to before I wrap it up, is there anything else you want to say about it? And I'll do the pitch and everything, and I'm gonna try to. If I can make everyone in the country read this book, I would wave a wand I would buy them the book and I would make them read this book. That's how important I think this book is.
Well, thanks, Steve, I mean, and I'm flattered and honor just to be with you. So enjoy the conversation. And no, I think we've covered it.
I want to say, everyone who's listening, why why journalism like this is so important and the application for it in politics and reality. This was a terrible thing that happened, terrible, terrible thing, and a terrible consequence has resulted with Donald Trump as we live through these events, right, this is
this is This is cause and effect. This is the consequence of one of the most selfish, self interested decisions a small group of people have ever inflicted on the United States in the two hundred and fifty years of the country's existence. The American Revolution starts the anniversary celebrations in ten days April to nineteen, two hundred and fiftieth
anniversary at the beginning of the American Revolution. And I want to talk about, just for a second, why this issue is so important because it is the key that unlocks the door to how we get out of this disaster. The American people have been lied to. MAGA voters were lied to by Donald Trump, and Democratic voters were lied to by the Bidens and this team, and the result of those lives is catastrophe, disaster for the country. And
we share that in common. Republican voters, magical voters, Democratic voters, MAGA voters, and progressive voters share the abuse of being lied to by the most powerful people in the world so they could have more power. And the consequences in the suffering are going to be immense because of those lives, we have to forgive each other as people and appreciate as an American people, we have been pitted against each other by powerful people with powerful propaganda platforms and powerful lies.
And the way through this is to appreciate as we get into the next election that Democrats will have to look at Republicans with grace and say you were lied to, and Republicans will have to look at Democrats with grace and say you were lied to. We were all lied to, and are we going to let the lies take something ephemeral from us? Or are we going to make an American stand together. This is a story about power, is
a story about greed. It is a story that tells a tale of what happens when there is no restraint, when common sense dissipates, when delusion overwhelms obligation. This is one of the most profound and tragic stories in the history of the country. Personal tragedy for Joe Biden that we chose it, for his family, and for all of these people who have done irreparable harm to three hundred and fifty million people who live in this country. Shameful
doesn't begin to describe it. But because of the power of the First Amendment, because of the initiative of Chris Whipple, because of journalism and courage, you know what happened. And I urge all of you to not treat the most powerful people in the world like teenagers treat Taylor Swift. Don't be a fan, be a citizen and demand the fulfillment of the obligations of people who seek to serve the country. Are they serving you? Are they serving the
American Constitution? Because this project that we share is something by design that none of us ever get to see the end of. It goes on we stand here today on the shoulders of a forgotten man who deserves mentioning on April ninth, you listens, Grant, he saved the country such sacrifice. There's only ever been seven hundred million Americans. One million gave their lives so that generations not yet
born could live in freedom. This book is a story of about twenty people out of the seven hundred million Americans who've ever lived, who stand in a infinestinally small percentile of people who have done the most damage to the country in its long history, and history will scorn them for it deservedly. And the names were shetty and done. We'll linger with the names like Hexa and Lutnik and
gabbered all together. And in the final analysis they'll be grouped with names like Lee and Davis and others who wrecked and destroy and damnage. What was the inheritance that they were born into? And shame on them all. And with that I say to all of you, thanks for listening, Thank you to Chris Whipple for coming, and I urge all of you to read this book.
Steeve, thanks for having me.
You got it. Thanks Chris, and I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you to join this community, where I promise to be honest, blunt and direct about what is happening in this country. America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to this channel and on substackt. Thank you