Thanks for listening. For earlier access to these episodes, access to Ask Me Anything sessions, and extended breakdowns of historical and current events, please consider joining our Warning Premium community by clicking the link in the description to this episode. So I've really thrilled this afternoon to be joined by Francesca Hogy, who I met at a conference. I think it was a conference, is that.
What we I think that's what we call it.
It was a conference, but it was a conference on atriotism, and there was a really unique assemblage of people there with a lot of varied backgrounds. And you were there, and you are a love coach.
Yes, yes, that was That was a strange room to find myself in, for sure, but I was glad to be there and glad to meet you. But yes, I am a love coach. I help people with love.
And I think one of the things that was interesting about that weekend as the obvious and we'll get into talking about what you do who you do it with, but love as a concept is elemental to the human condition, and that's something that you talked about at the retreat, and in the context of patriotism, one of the things I've long said and I said there that weekend, is that we need a reminder in the country that you can't hate half the people in it and love your country.
And love, whether it's with patriotism, whether it's at an individual level, is just elemental to everything else in society working. And I've just wanted to ask you, when you think about your career track, tell us how you got into doing what you do, how you say it what you do before we talk about the concept more broadly.
Yeah. So I in my former career, I was a corporate lawyer, which is not the world's worst job, but it's still was something that I knew that that was not what I was on the planet to do. It's not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And love is something that I've always been unusually obsessed with. It felt normal to me. But as I got older, I said, I don't think other people think about love quite as much as I do. And eventually,
I mean, this is a very very short version. Eventually I wound up discovering a matchmaker named Paul Brunson, and he is a black man. He had an MBA. He was an investment banker, and he left his career to start a matchmaking business, and I was very inspired. I was like, I'm kind of like him. I saw myself in him, and through just following him, I learned that this was actually an industry, that there were people whose
job it was to help other people find love. And that was one of the things that was really important to me in my career pivot was doing something that was really important, like something that was actually really significantly going to positively impact people's lives. And I was like, well, what's more impactful than love? Right, Like, as you said, it's elemental. We're all born knowing how to love. We're all born, you know, I consider us all to be
born love geniuses. And then a lot of that gets suppressed through you know, life and childhood and conditioning and trauma and all those things. But at our core, you know, we all have this drive to love and to be loved, and you know, I just once I discovered that I could actually help people really tap into that and to really embody love and not just think of it as
even though I focus on romantic love. For people who are listening and you've no idea who I am, you know, I typically work with people who are single who are looking for healthy relationships that last. That's my typical demographic. But even within that, you know, a lot of people come to me and they're very focused on I want to get into relationship. I want to get into a relationship.
But then ultimately what the real key to them actually having that relationship is is having a deeper relationship of self love. So when I started, I was very much about I'm a matchmaker. I'm just going to introduce everybody to, you know, a great partner and they're going to fall
in love and it's all going to be great. And once I got in it, it was like, oh wait, there's a lot more to this, and there are a lot more layers that people need to really address and understanding what love even is and how to actually live in love and start there, and then you'll then the relationship you want and all of that because comes inevitable and just and accepted or expected outcome of just moving through the world in a certain way and having that
intention of Okay, I do want to co create a loving relationship with another person.
So I want to talk about all of that, But I want to back up on your career trajectory and So take us to that moment where you're going into the corporate law firm, your corporate lawyering and doing the things that corporate lawyers do, and you have your first moment, right and it's you know, you have you have gone to law school, you're a lawyer, You've you've studied for you've passed the bar. There you are and one day this what was it? Is it a moment of doubt
creeps in? You know, when do you go from first out? So I can't do this anymore, Gotta gotta change it up because I think a lot of people find themselves there.
Yeah, absolutely, especially a lot of lawyers because too many people go to law school who shouldn't. But for me, it was it took I mean it took some time because initially, you're right, I you know, I did all the things. I graduated from law school, I passed the bar, I was at this you know, great firm in New
York City, and I was living the dream. You know, I'm like, you know, mid twenty six figure salary, town, you know, town car home every night, and all of these kind of trappings of success that at first you're like, oh wow, I made it right, But then after a couple of years of that, and a big thing for me was that at my firm, I actually had a very very good situation because I had one of the most senior partners at the firm who was my mentor, who I did ninety nine percent of my work directly
with him, and so I was very protected from a lot of the law firm politics and competition because I was just sort of in this special category, as you know, being this person's associate, and he and I had a wonderful relationship, and so I recognized especially compared to all of my friends who were lawyers and you know, in other professions as well. I was like, I have a very very good situation here, and still I don't want this is not what I want to do for my life.
And when I look at when I look at this partner, when I look at all the partners, I don't want their job, right, And this like when people say when you look at your boss, like if you don't want your boss's job, then like you might be in the wrong job, right, and so like I don't want that. So I just have to trust that there's something more for me. So my first time that I left the law, I left, and actually, because I see I was telling you, I told you this short version. But what I actually
had studied undergrad was TV and film production. And so when I first left the law, I started a film production company and so I moved from New York to LA and I did that for five years with a friend of mine from law school. Actually, so it was that. And then I went back to the law because.
I got sucked back in basically because I needed to make money, because I wasn't making any money as as an independent film producer and that time, and so you asked about like that moment, I had a day and I went back to New York, you know, back.
In the whole corporate law grind down car, back in the town car exactly, back in eating you know, dinner
at my at my desk and all of that. And I literally, Steve, I walked into the office one morning and this has not ever happened to me before and or since, I don't think, actually, and it was like somebody was whispering, my ear, You're not supposed to be here, and it was so loud and it was so alarming that I actually had a moment of you know, and this is you know, downtown Manhattan, you know Skyscraper, and I had a moment of like, is this my intuition
telling me like there's a terrorist attack? I mean like literally that's where I went for a moment. And then I was like, Okay, I don't think it's that. I don't think I'm in immediate danger, but I just this is I've reached the limit of this, Like I this stage of being like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life, so I'm kind of stuck here. It's like I'm sick of being stuck, and it's time for me to figure it out.
And you meet this guy who, as you said, is a he's a black guy. He's an investment banker, right, and so yeah, there's a you know which I put like in the very very proximate space right doing more employers right, very much walked out of that. He's doing this, and this guy's happy.
Yeah, this guy is happy, he's living his best life. He's really, you know, very passionate about what he does and very successful in all of those things. And so I, yeah, I really I saw myself and him. I was like, oh, he you know, did the whole good school, fancy degree thing, you know, fancy career, and he chose something that seemed crazy, and a lot of people really did think I was I mean, no one. I had one friend who said to me, do you really think is this really what
you want to do? You really think this is a good idea? Everyone else kind of went matchmaking? Okay, well, good.
Luck with that, you know.
And but so it takes a lot of courage to do a big pivot, you know, as you know, and uh.
When people when people when you told people that you were like, I'm gonna be a matchmaker, were they surprised? Were they like, that's Francesca that were you know, people kind of fall out of their chairs? Do they like, you know, as Francisco always marched at a beat of her own drama on that.
Yeah, I mean I think I think a lot of people in my life just felt like, Okay, you know, she marches to the beat of her own drum. This is the thing she's into. I guess now, you know, I don't think people took it very seriously. But and I also the other thing that I skipped over is that, you know, I had been on Survivor right the show, and I'd been on Survivor twice, and you know that's
a whole debacle. But anyway, but the point is, I think people were just kind of used to me doing risky things, unorthodox things, and so they were kind of like, all right, well, good luck with that. But there was literally not one person who was like, yes, this is a good idea. I see it, I see the vision, this is what you should do. So I had to really step out on faith that I was being called to this profession for a reason and trust that. But yeah, it wasn't always easy, but I'm glad I did.
So you talked about this evolution of how you see it, how you counsel people when people come to you, that they have to be comfortable with themselves talking about self love. But yes, before we get there, let's talk about who's coming to see you. Median age.
I would say the median age is probably late thirties.
Okay, yeah, male or more female.
So I have more women who come to me as clients, but I actually have more men who listen to my podcast, and I find that very interesting. Like the breakdown on social is really fifty to fifty, but I think fewer men are inclined to reach out to a coach and say, you know, I really want to hire you. I need
deeper help with this. But yeah, and they might not feel as welcome because I do kind of speak to women mostly, but I include everyone in my heart, even if people just sort of you know, I happen to be a heterosexual woman, so I kind of default to that dynamic often, but not to exclude anyone. Everyone's included.
And what I'm actually talking about, because what I'm actually talking about is really about self love and intention and that doesn't have anything to do with your gender or age or race or anything like that.
Now I found that curious. Also, what do you what do you how do you account for that? Right? What do you what do you think it is with Matt that they are not inclined to ask for help, that they're lazy?
I'd acted right, I mean, I mean you said it ask mean.
I mean that could be added. What do you what do you think now? I I you know, I'm fifty two, and so we're all a product of our of our generations, and so being fifty two, and you know, I say to my kids, well there's there's Grandpa, you know, quite
essential baby boomer. But you missed my my grandparents. But but Grandpa's generation of men were pre GPS, pre cell phones, which meant if you were lost with dad, right, and this doesn't matter, right, you know, black man, white man, a Hispanic man, it doesn't all men of that generation right. Overwhelmingly they would not ask for directions, right, you would have for five six hours? Right, you know, well they
would not. They would not do it right. So like men are evolving right, somewhat right because they were your right asking for help. And and now people are listening and men are coming in. But what do you have an approach that's different? You know, off the line, what you say to a client, a man who's coming in late thirties versus a woman, you know, late thirties, how you how you begin? How you say it?
Yeah? I mean I would say, well, first of all, I would say late thirties is the median, but the average is probably more like forties early early early to mid forties. And it's not that I necessarily say different things to I would say different things to a man versus a woman, but I do speak to them differently.
Meaning what I do like about working with men is that when a man is motivated enough to work with a coach, he's pretty much like, Okay, I don't know what I'm doing, so just tell me what to do and I'll do it. So it tends to be a much more straightforward I don't have to account for as much sort of emotion and like because like the more direct communication. This is such generalizations right now. This is like, while generally.
Right, but it's good marriage training, like witch, you'll do when you're told and try to action.
Need Yeah, I mean there is something about there is something especially like in this I think again this heterosexual dynamic where there is an element of men want to please you as a woman. So even though I'm just their coach, there's no romantic anything, I'm still saying like, hey, this, you know, this is what we agree to. These are the actions you're going to take. And then if we get on the phone in a week and you haven't done it, and I'm like, well, tell me why you
didn't do it? You know, like this isn't about me, this is about you. So what's going on here? You commit it or not. It's kind of like okay, you know I think that men tend to respond to that a little bit better than women, who it tends to be more of a conversation about Okay, let's talk about how you how you feel, and what's coming up for you and how you can like some tools to deal with that emotion so you can take the action that
you want. So this men tend to just generally be a little bit more action oriented, but that can have its downside too, obviously, right, And so that's but that's what's great about man who's ready to work with a coach. I'm not just saying do these things. It's like there's there's reason, there's meaning, you know underneath it, and they're ready for that.
Now. Now, what percentage of people that are coming to see who are divorced looking or you know versus you know, haven't been married yet, haven't had a Yeah.
I mean, I would say it's probably about fifty to fifty you know, between divorce or even if they weren't married, just maybe long term relationships, I would say, So, I'd say it's probably probably about fifty percent of people who've been in long term relationships, and then probably about twenty five percent of people who are actively dating but they're just like stuck in this cycle and they just can't break through, they can't break out of that dating cycle.
And then about twenty five percent of people really don't date at all and maybe haven't really dated. And so they're coming to me to really get the confidence and the skills to start to open themselves up to date and to get romantically activated, as I call it.
There are those people because they just gave up or they just never engaged in the.
Yeah, it's usually it's usually people who never really got started. And then and I and I, by the way, I'm one of those people. So, like I mean, I was a lawyer at a law firm, and I had to recognize, like, I don't know how to date, and I had to teach myself how to date because I literally was like I don't know how to get I don't know how to get a date. Then when I finally figured out how to get a date, I wasn't getting asked on second dates. So I was like my own first client, right.
I had to face the kind of the shame that you can feel when you are an adult person who doesn't date and doesn't have relationships, because it feels like there's something wrong with you. Is like, why is everybody else figure this out but not me? And so it just happens a lot more camp. It happens a lot more often than people realize because oftentimes people who don't date and don't have relationships, they're not talking about it.
So you just sort of like, oh, you know, they're busy, they doing this, Oh there are all these other things going on in their lives and that's just not a priority for them, or maybe they just don't talk about it. But people make assumptions that there's something going on that maybe is in and you know, so there are these different sort of ways that that circumstance can hide and plain sight. But it's actually it's actually pretty common.
Now let me just are you saying same sex couples, are they part of the practice anyone from the transgender community or overwhelmingly or we talk about heterosexual practice couples coming.
Yeah, well, so, first of all, I don't work with couples. I work with individuals. Yeah, so, and in terms of that, and I mean, yeah, with individuals, So I mean in terms of people's like sexual orientation, I mean, most of my clients are heterosexual or least bisexual, Like there is some heterosexual dynamic there. But I've also had wonderful, amazing clients who are homosexual who do you know, all sorts of So I've had like every permutation basically, but most consistently,
my most consistent client is a cisgendered heterosexual woman. That's my most typical client. But everyone, like I said, I've worked with everyone, and everyone is welcome. It's just those are the people who are the most drawn to me.
And the people that will go see a coach to do this. Any inclination difference kind of more white than black or is it evenly.
Really yeah, it's really evenly spread, and you know, it's evenly spread for me in terms of my own business. But and I think, you know, some coaches are a little bit more maybe, you know, like there are a lot of coaches, for instance, who specifically coached black women, Like they're coaches who specifically coach Jewish people. There are coaches who specific you know, So there's there's lots of different There are people who really specialize in particular communities
and demographics. I don't specialize in a particular community orgraphic, but that's but that's great. You know, there's lots of coaches out there, and there's basically a coach for everyone. So I think that as soon as people find like, oh there's somebody who's speaking my language, they're saying something that resonates with me. What I don't I don't see race being a factor in making a decision as to whether or not they're going to work with somebody. It's just who they're going to work with.
Or most people college educated, affluent, Yes.
Yeah, yeah, most of my clients are professionals, and I mean they're again this is not like a requirement that I have, but this is just most of them are people who are more high, high achieving. A lot of them have graduate degrees, a lot of them have you know, that successful what looks like that very successful career. They have some means because it is a luxury service, right Like, so if you if you don't have any if you don't have any money to invest in coaching, you know,
I still have lots of resources that are free. But in terms of who I work with one on one, yeah, there are people who tend to you know, they have they have the means to invest in coaching.
All right, So I'm going to make a sweet thing kind of generalization. Now, so we've asked these questions just kind of arc type of Americans. And one of the things we were at the conferences, you know, which was a nice thing able to have a direct, honest of dialogue and conversations about things. And so we live in this era where everything is sliced and diced into the narrowest band, you know, left handed, white person, Irish descent
of black. Is that everything else? But we're talking about really is a segment of the population here that is multicultural, that is diverse racially, is affluent, successful, lay thirties toes. About half the people have had a failed marriage, you know, my category you know now recently remarried, But you have people who haven't been in a relationship and about twenty percent that just have this part of their life that's that's on fill. Do I do I basically have that have that right? Yeah?
Yeah, you do. I mean I think the one thing that I would revise is that the age range is wider, right, because I was giving you meetians and averages. But like I you know, I've worked with people in their seventies. I like, I have a membership community. I have people in my community who were in their sixties and fifty anty, so there's a there is definitely arranged. But yes, I think that was a good summary. Good listening, feel Steve right.
So I so what I what I think is is a couple of things. I think that we are now beginning to talk more about this as a society. The Surgeant General said that loneliness, yes, will kill you off as quickly as smoking a couple of backs a day, which is pretty statement.
It really is. Yeah, that report was it was striking.
Yeah. Yeah, So you are this person who they come to see affluently successful people, and you are different right away from the overwhelming majority of people who who walk in that door because you walked out of something that made you unhappy, found yourself in a place that made you happy. And really what drives that happiness is helping other people. And part of that advice is telling people that you have to love yourself else right before you can't commit and to be a full whole partner to
someone else. And so I guess my question is in the in the context, is what percentage of people are walking in to see you in some state of anxiety, some state of loneliness, some state of depression, right, which which is not something right that you initially set out right to observe talk about, but take in. But you assessed that this that this loneliness, this disconnection as as driving this emptiness.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think there's some degree of anxiety and there's some degree of disconnection for everyone who comes to me. I mean I think if you didn't have any of that, then you wouldn't be seeking help.
You wouldn't be seeking guidance in terms of depression. You know, there there have been times in the past where people have come to me and wanted to hire me and I actually felt like you actually need I would recommend therapy at this moment over coaching because if someone is in a very you know, if they're just in an extreme emotionally you know, disrupted state, then it's like coaching is it's not the time you want to you want
to you want to stabilize. I mean, I help people with tools with obviously, you know, mental health is something that's part of just what probably any coach does. You know, it was a good coach at least, right, But I'm not a therapist, right, So, if somebody is having an acute mental health apriate right, exactly exactly, but you know there are It's interesting at the start of the pandemic, my business started booming because, I mean for a few reasons.
One is because people were actually just like sitting down and like actually had time to, you know, really look at their lives and look at their choices and prioritize things differently. But also because people were sad and lonely, and they're like, Okay, is there really some way that I can even given the state of the world, even given my circumstances, is there still a way for me to feel connected and still have love? And yeah, I mean the answer is yes.
Anybody's wondering. I say this all the time politically, and I know we see eye to eye on you know, the person I'm gonna talk about, But there's a we don't talk enough about in this country, about this crisis of loneliness and disconnection as it relates to our politics. And you know, what Donald Trump has created is a community of lonely, disconnected people and put them together under
this Maga umbrella. And now that it's the worst cause since Jim Crow in the in the Confederacy is beside the point, right, if you're lovely and looking for a community, and you have people right who have found themselves there. Then on the margins of this, you know, or maybe margins is wrong word, because it's it's more mainstream than that.
Now you have a a militant extremism that's attracting disaffected people, and they wind up in the Proud Boys, and they wind up in the Oathkeepers, and they wind up in the Patriot Front neo Nazi organization, just like it's always always been. And so you know, this societal issue, right, the healthcare costs of loneliness, the political costs of loneliness, and at the end of the day, the cost of loneliness against really the mission statement of a country, which is,
you know, for people to pursue happiness. It's that it's tough to pursue your happiness if you're sad and you and you and you're alone. So so most people who come to see you, you know, you would say, are in a state of some degree or not of loneliness.
Yeah, I would say, I mean, I would I wouldn't say that that's how they would describe it. I mean, people don't say I'm so lonely help me. They're more like, I really want to need someone, I really want to have a relationship, I want to have love, I want
to feel more connected to myself. So I think that's it's not that lonely is the word that they necessarily always use, but there is some loneliness there, because if we feel disconnected from love, we're going to feel lonely, whether you are in a relationship or not, right Like, that's just that's just how it goes. Like that's you know, love is an inside job and it doesn't feel that way.
And you know, and to your larger point about what's happening politically and our country, you know, I don't give Donald Trump that much credit. I mean, he's an avatar. He's somebody who came along and if the conditions were not perfect for his message and for him to tap into a certain vein, then it wouldn't you know, it never would have connected.
Right.
So I think that we have disaffected people in every you know, political shade and spectrum because ultimately, I believe that we have a self worth crisis in our culture and that is the cause of everything, because we don't view ourselves as inherently worthy, and we don't view other people is inherently worthy. So what I mean by that is, if you think about a newborn baby and you look at a newborn baby, does this baby deserve love? Do
they deserve respect? Do they deserve kindness? Do they deserve safety? Right? So some people would say maybe depends on what color they are or where they were born, right, But hopefully we can all actually understand that, yeah, this baby, of course baby is born deserving of those things, right. And so if you can accept that, then you can also start to understand that that applies to all of us. We were all born, We were all babies once, right.
And part of what I see as the problem politically is that no one wants to give anyone the basic foundation of just you are a worthy human. I might disagree with you, but I recognize your inherent worth. And so if we recognize each other's inherent worth, like even on the basic level of respect, right, like, respect is not something that I believe that we should have to
earn from one another. We owe it to each other to just respect each other's humanity, and we don't do that so often on either side of the political spectrum. And so if we continue to just dehumanize each other.
It's only a reflection of how we feel. Like if we felt really connected internally, and we loved ourselves, and we felt inherently worthy and you know, good enough, and we didn't have to do all these things and get this outside validation and approval and all of this and you know, money and success and all these things told be good enough. If we just felt good enough as we as we are inherently today right now, I think the world would be a different place. It would be transformed.
So that's how I look at these things. That's why I'm always about let's talk about how you feel about yourself, because it is such an easy distraction to project and put all your energy and all your attention on other people. Look at how terrible they are, look at how stupid
they are, look at how bad they are. And if everyone one in the world just continues to do that, we are actually going to have an apocalypse and we are all going to kill each other, because that is the inevitable outcome of that, of that that energy continuing.
You said, you said one of the things about self worth that I want to that I want to come back to you, but let me so before we come back to self worth, and I want to ask you a question, which is, why do you think that it is that people's self worth has never been lower? Is what you're saying at a time when it's costly validy? Right. The first thing that comes to mind, right, you know is we inculcate our kids with self worth now at a young age, with with participation trophies. Right, so there's
there's no lack of validation. Right, And I want to I want to go more deeply into this with you, because I think your observation there was brilliant. But how many people before we do that, how many people say to you, is there is there looking for a match? Absolutely? No one else on the other political party? Well, what's whatsoever? It doesn't matter. I'll date it racially. I'll date you know, between religions, right, cultures, whatever. But you know, no Republican or no Democrat was so over.
I mean I probably I don't think I have any clients who'd say no Democrats whatsoever. They probably wouldn't be irony me that way.
Okay, But.
Yeah, I mean I most this, this has changed because I've been doing this now for ten years and When I first started doing this, people were much more about values and much more about you know, I don't have to I don't have to agree on every single political point as my partner, but as long as we have like common ground, and I've definitely seen that polarized, Like people are not interested in navigating common ground anymore. They really just are like, Nope, I just want somebody who
has the same political views as me. So some people are more extreme in that than others. But I'd say that everybody has a political line in the sand. Now that's very clear. That probably was a little bit fuzzier. They'd have to give it some more thought, you know, ten years ago or eight years ago.
Is it is it? Is it just stable now? Is it just is it just the way it is? Is it still hardening? Is it still is it still getting worse? Right? Or more people you know, more more direct and more clear on that.
Yeah, I mean I think it's I think it's getting worse at the moment. For sure. Yeah, it's getting worse.
But you know, the thing about the thing about dating culture and just our romantic culture in general, is that it's not this thing that's like out there, like we're all a part of it, right, And so everyone contributes to it, whether you are actively dating, whether you're in a relationship or not, we're all still we're all still collectively contributing our expectations and our you know, behaviors and based on certain beliefs about love and relationships. So we
all have to decide, Wow, this is getting bad. It's only getting worse. And if this continues, what is that going to mean for all of us as a society. What is that going to mean for us as individuals? To feel like half of the country is my mortal enemy? Right, Like, this is not going to be This is not going to be a happy situation for any of us. So it's it's like the individual. So going back to what you said about self worth and the validation that a
lot of you know, people get. So there's a difference between self worth and self heal and between self wealth, self worth and self validation or being validated, because oftentimes, and what happens with a lot of kids is that even by very very well intentioned people, we all get this to some degree, your self worth now becomes tied to the validation. It's not you're good enough. Oh, and that's amazing that you did that thing. It's you did that thing, and that's what makes you special, and that's
what makes you good enough. And so the validation and that's why we see social do just getting a million likes on Instagram help people's mental health? We all know that it doesn't.
I was gonna say these things a bit disaster, right, They've been a disaster for this. Do you do you believe it?
I mean, I listen, yes, they have, but this but I'm also not you know, I don't blame it all on technology, but technology definitely exacerbates a lot of behaviors that we see now the result of this, Like we wouldn't know, we wouldn't have the loneliness epidemic that we have country if we didn't have if we didn't have, you know, iPhones and social media, we wouldn't.
So let me so what So I have a good friend of mine. His name is name is Paul, and I've traveled all around the world with Paul, and We've got out a lot of whether it's diving, hiking, a lot of things involving guides and and Paul's dream is to write a book. And in the book, he says will be the dumbest question that he died has has been asked, and I I think you're in a in a related field. Perhaps I love it right that we can talk about dating a little bit and what it's
like out there. A lot of people in the warning community might skew a little bit older and aren't necessarily out in the dating uh world right now, and so we live in a peculiar time, peculiar age, post post pandemic. So give us to handle on what's going on out there generically in the dating world right through the prism of let's say a guy right who comes to see you, you know what, his late thirties, early forties, he's alone, he's looking for a partner, you know, he musts to
find the one. What is it? What is it that you're gonna say to him? And what is it? What is the thing that you most commonly hear right from that guy? As both a coach now, right, but as a woman, you're just like, oh my god, what is it? What is it that they don't get about us?
That's interesting. I mean, I can't say that there's like a dumb, one specific dumb question, but but I think there is a general naivete Let's put it that way in terms of thinking that there's just this formula that you can follow and you're going to meet somebody and into a great relationship without having to look at any of your own beliefs, expectations, behaviors and you know. So I think there's the sense of just like, okay, well just tell me what to do to like go meet
this great person. And it's like, well, I mean, we got to talk first about you, right, because just going through just taking just going through steps just for the sake of going through steps when you're not aligned with how you actually feel and what you believe, and it's just not it's not going to work. So I think
it's not that they're dumb questions. It's just more of this sense that maybe there's just this one answer that I haven't heard, and you can just tell me that one thing and I can just do it and not have to worry about anything else. So it's not dumb so much as naive.
You do keep track of the people that you have, your clients, who have who have how many people say, you know, I've met someone, we're getting married. You do it to you?
You Yeah, so you'd be surprised. Okay, so I definitely I have plenty of people who actively like reach out to me, you know, invite me to weddings, you know, say like this never would have happened things to you. But then I also have people who will just like randomly, like they'll see something I post on Instagram and they'll be like, oh, hey, I you know, I forgot to tell you. You know, we worked together three years ago and you said blah blah blah and this was so helpful.
And right after that, I met this guy and we've been married now for a year, and I'm like, you're gonna tell me that, like you'd be so sor like that happens so often. It's like people are like, oh, I kind of forgot, Because I think what happens is that it's not like when you're matchmaking and you're the one who's literally like, you know, Jane meet Steve and it's like, oh, you know, how did you meet Francesca
introduced us? Right, But when it's coaching and you've now developed the skill to become your own matchmaker, you've done it, so it's not like, you know, you know, I think I think that people sometimes don't they don't make the direct connection.
Have you have you had some matchmaking horror stories?
Oh god, yes, yeah, there's there's a reason that I don't matchmake anymore, Steve, because it.
Was not like, well you got to you gotta share one here?
Like what taking years?
Bad? Like what what? Let's hear the word? What is the worst? Francesca?
The worst is is it's not even about disastrous dates. It's about people with an absurdly unrealistic expectations, people who like I mean, I had to start saying to people when they're telling me, Okay, this is why I want to meet somebody. One of my standard questions had like became, okay, when is the last time you met someone who met this basic criteria? And sometimes it's like, well I haven't, right and like and they'll be like, oh, i've met
you know, you know, maybe teuble years ago. Okay, when's the last time you dated somebody met this basic criteria? And so often people are like no, and I like, I had this one. I was thinking about her the other day at this one client. Her criteria is that she wanted to date someone who was he had to be over six three, have blonde hair, green eyes, a minimum of one hundred thousand dollars cash like savings on
hand and like some other like super specific things. And I was like, okay, well, I said, you know, blonde hair and green eyes six three wow, six', three that's already tiny slice of the. Population and then you add on top of that blonde, hair green, eyes like you, know, where when's the last time you you've even seen somebody who met this? Criteria and she's, LIKE i. Haven't but that's why that's WHAT i hired you.
For if you were but if you were like if you were like six two and a, half, like don't you back like, now.
She probably would have been flexible on half it. Inch but it's just but it's like that kind of delusion of like you THINK i have this magical portal where now they're all these like, blonde green eyed giants who want to who want to date?
You you think do you think when that person is sitting in front of you, right, like that's not real? Life is? It?
No? Well, actually and it was interesting about this. Particular this was interesting about this so this. Person REALLY i learned a lot from this, situation SO i never found myself in it. Again because what she did was she waited until after she hired me to be honest with me about what she was looking. For so and she also waited until after she hired hired me to be honest with me that she'd never been in a relationship.
Before so she so it was, like you, know so she so there were so many you, know there were so many things. There but this is actually a perfect example of how love is an inside. Job she was convincing, Herself i'm single BECAUSE i haven't met this impossible. Person but it's, like, no this is all your way of protecting. Yourself this is why you don't. Date this is why you've never had, relationships because you create these impossible obstacles
within yourself and then you cling to. Them and now and you, know it becomes this whole story in vicious.
Cycle is it a is it a defense? Mechanism?
Yes or?
A is it A i don't know what type of, material like what percentage of people come in right as opposed TO i want right the blonde, haired green, eyed six foot Three Dolph lungern, dude, right you, know LIKE i want like you Know MICHAEL. B, Johnson, right you, know LIKE i want somebody who's. KIND i want someone who's. GENTLE i want somebody with, character, integrity hard. Work. RIGHT i mean what percentage of people come in and talk about? That?
RIGHT i JUST i can't find somebody with like what we would call the or character virtues a versus a materialistic right. Aesthetic. RIGHT i want someone who looks like, this makes this, much and lives, here drives.
This type of, yeah so and so. AGAIN i don't matchmake. Anymore and this is one of the reasons, why because with, matchmaking it's probably eighty percent leading with the superficial list of things that people want because they think that if as long as they meet somebody that checks these, boxes then that person they'll be. Happy but as for, Coaching but for, coaching people are more they have more awareness that, like, OH i actually have to do some things differently, here
so they typically don't lead with. That it's more About, OKAY i know the kind of RELATIONSHIP i want to, HAVE i know HOW i want to. Feel but that's STILL i, mean but all of that still comes. UP i, mean everyone still has, preferences and some people are more attached to very specific is the goal or you, know quantifiable external traits that they can check off a list
versus really thinking about the. Relationship but it's not their fault because you, KNOW i just did A ted talk last month In vancouver and my thank you and.
My right thay In North. America what's that my favorite stating In North? America?
Really, well that's it was only my second time, there but it is very. Beautiful. Yeah but you know WHAT i talked about in my tech talk is WHAT i call the fairy tale industrial, complex which is just this web of, marketing, advertising, movies, music so many things that really sell us this notion of romantic love as a, fantasy and it's about finding one perfect person and when
you find that perfect, person you live happily ever. After and this is something that is like literally used to sell us, everything, right like everything from cars to chewing gum to make up to. Everything it's, like if you're beautiful, enough if you're handsome, enough if you look rich, enough if you look this, way if you have these, things then you'll be, desirable then you'll be, lovable then you'll live happily ever. After and this really seeps into people's.
Expectations so we're all kind of programmed to have this feeling that romantic love is about one perfect person and If i'm not, happy it's BECAUSE i haven't found the perfect,
person it's because my partner isn't quote making me. Happy but the reality, is if you are an unhappy, person even if you meet somewhat, amazing you'll briefly have a bump in your happiness because the novelty of, it and then you'll go back To you'll just default back to your regular level of unhappiness right like wherever you, go
there you. Are so a big shift that people need to make in thinking about romantic relationships is from not just being focused on the characteristics of another, person but to actually start, with, well what are the? Qualities what are the values of the relationship THAT i want to? Have because if you know that your core romantic values include things, like you, know emotional, intimacy then when you're dating, somebody no matter how you, know If Dolph lungren's your,
thing it may Be Dolph. Lungern but if you can if you're, like, oh BUT i can see one of my core needs is not being met. Here this person is not capable of meeting me at the level of emotional. Intimacy That i'm. Seeking then you understand it's, like, well it's not about them being, Perfect it's about what we create when we come, together, Right and the relationship is a co, creation and you're half of that. Equation so you have to start with you, like, well what AM i?
Expecting what are my? Values what DO i? Want what AM i bringing to the? Table what are the ways in Which i'm not being? Loving, Right i'm not being loving towards, Myself i'm not being loving towards other. People so you, KNOW i could go on about, This i'll, STOP i could go on.
And, oh it's, FASCINATING i will. SAY i will say this about you as we come to the end of our. Time you are an exceptionally interesting person and you are in this like very very very like narrow like band of people you know that you meet over the course of life that are just happy and exlude a type
of glow that makes people feel. Good you, know it's a gift and a TALENTED i think that WHEN i talk to young, people talk to people on college, campuses you, know you, know talk about careers in the direction they'll, go and you, know the degree to which anybody hears, this including my own. Kids, right this track that you're supposed to be on for whatever, reason you, know to
whatever place is highly. Artificial and you know that you're in the town, car you're in the big, city you're on the fast track in the big law, firm and, right that doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna wind up in a happy and a fulfilled. Place and so you get one lap around the. Track what you're supposed to do versus what you're called to, DO i think are very different. Things and you, know the sooner you figure that out in, life probably the better off you. Are and you're a
trailblazer in that. Front you're helping a lot of, people and you are an incredibly interesting. Person And, francesca before we, go tell us tell the audience here where they can find.
You, well first of, ALL i have to thank you for such so many kind. WORDS i really really appreciate. IT i am easy to. Find i'm At Dear franny. EVERYWHERE i have a podcast Called Dear. Franny, actually my fifth season launches later this, week so there'll be some new episodes. Coming But i'm on all the socials At Dear. Franny easy To.
Find franny's great on chourage you to follow her go, Listen Frank, chessca thank you so much FOR i just do.
That it's, okay it's.
Perfect you just get that right, Yet, francesca thank you so much for being with us.
Today thank you for having, Me. STEVE i appreciate. It