Getting to talk to different Marines and just seeing for them, like when they go to a doctor and doctors like here, just take this. This is going to help you that if we had all discovered CBD earlier in life, if they'd still be around now and they wouldn't be drug addicts, they wouldn't have lost all their jobs, they wouldn't be in a mental health care facility because they lost it.
Lava for Good and Stand Together Music present The War on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, it's impact, it's failures, and the people offering a better path forward. Today on the show, Bellator Women's MMA flyweight World Champion and two times UFC finalists, five year Marine Corps veteran, Once a Marine, always a Marine, and medicinal CBD education
and Access advocate Liz car Moosh. All Right, welcome to another episode of season two of The War on Drugs.
Podcast US in two. Yes, this is the season where we actually talk to people.
Man a lot more pr just not just you, me and.
Yeah, and we actually going to see them.
Yeah, we're in Nashville for this interview. Liz carmuche Yes, US marine wants marine always a marine.
Absolutely mm A fighter, definitely a pain specialist.
Yeah, Like because we see what she does in the ring, We see what happens in the fight.
But also she knows how to dish out the pain.
So she's a pain specialist in giving and receiving. Yeah, so if she tells you how to deal with you know, a good concussed head, you might want to listen. Yeah, she knows a thing or two about this situation. Yeah, my pain is joints and self inflicted. I slept wrong.
Yeah, you're a tall dude, and like you just you take a lot of flights and punch me.
Oh I am suing you.
I am not built for that life.
But yeah, mental well being in particularly like PTSD with the Mill Terry community. You know, we talked about in our opening episode about how the federal government still you know, schedules cannabis at the schedule one and so that kind of trickles down on all the other agencies and everyone else because they have to be speaking the same fenerty line.
So that means, you know, the VA, the Veteran Affairs, they can't go out and say like yeah, we know that this is schedule one, Like our buddies over here at the DA are saying that, but like, don't worry about it. So their whole thing is they cannot treat PTSD with any type of cannis. They cannot tell a state physician who can write a prescription that this individual has PTSD or something else if the point is for them to get a medical card. So that's how screwed
up the system is. And Liz and I touch and you touch on that, you know, through the interview a little bit. But I think it's important to know that, you know, it's not just a culture thing, Like these policies have greater impacts just beyond the criminal justice system, because now our health departments are housing. It gets into like are you going to get food stamps or not? Or a you're gonna get denied because it's in this schedule.
Are you going to get your SNAPNEF. It's like all these types of things trickle down because of this, And it's not just because you're in prison. It's because you're trying to make ends meet, or you have children, or you have chronic pain and you're trying to treat it. And so I think that's all the things. And one thing I'll just touch on as well. You know, we think of CBD is pretty innocuous. I think a lot of places, like I live in DC, live in Atlanta,
like they're in grocery stores or in most places. But a lot of places have started to like recriminalize it. It kind of was becoming decriminalized in places, so now they're trying to roll it back a little bit. And so then that's all these hemp products too, That's what all these things are. And so again, it's all this
stuff that hurts these businesses, hurts people. It touches everything, and you don't you don't realize until you just talk to someone in like their story and you're like, oh, that's because of that or like that x or like it's really interesting.
Yeah, And some of this stuff is down to life and death or our veterans. You know, SAT rate is high among our veterans, and.
More people die of suicide thany ever do in combat.
Right, yeah, right, And that's terrible to make it all the way through a conflict and then come and feel you know, so isolated, all right, so much pain, are so disconnected.
The toughest battles are still ahead of you.
Yeah, yeah, And I think the system kind of pushes people towards the alcohol, which you know is an issue with our veterans, or which is people towards the opioids, which is, you know, the addictive way to temporarily fix the pain.
But what do you what are you picking up?
You're losing the pain, but you're picking up an addiction that you might not be able to sustain if the doctor cuts you off. And now you're looking at black marketplaces for opioids that you wouldn't have even been introduced to.
And the crazy thing is, again, is twenty at least twenty nine states categorically say PTSD is something that can be helped treated with cannabis and can be prescribed for it. And then you look at the VA's website and it says under no circumstays should you treat, And it's okay, what's going on and where is this? Like can we just be honest?
Like we have.
Apparently medical professionals on both sides saying completely opposite things like what's happening here? And so it's just it's really difficult to kind of comprehend that, particularly with this population.
Yeah, and I think also Liz is not a person that runs from anything. She's not scared of anything, right, right, And you might want to run, but she's laying out everything that she's seen in her experience. And I think that's what we focus on a lot this season. Everybody kind of gets to tell you from their perspective. And it's not just a perspective of you're in the house and you're regurgitating what you've heard from other people. These
are people's lived experiences. This is what people have been seen, what they've been shown, and what they've learned. And if we're not gonna come back with the knowledge from what you're learning, and what's the point exactly?
Yeah, just to hear someone at the top of their game talk about I have taken everything I have been, I have the whole world in front of me. This is how I treat my pain. And that's a story I think a lot of people are gonna get a lot of value at So we can't wait for y'all to listen to it and.
Check it out.
Hey that me and Greg, our guests and sponsors may sound smart, we may even make some good points, but at the end of the day.
We're not medical professional.
Okay, Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast. Anything we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax, consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans. Got it all right, We're back right now. We got somebody very special guests. Liz Carameves am I saying it right.
I want to make seeing.
What you do in the ring. So no, Mma fighter marine, former marine man. We're glad always marine stops. Yes, that's what's up.
He was in the Marine, did a couple of tours and I was like, we have Carmes coming on. He was like, oh hell yeah who rah, Like she's a bad Yeah, yeah, really thanks for being on the show. Yeah, thanks it.
Yeah, You've got so many angles to this thing, and you a big advocate for CBD. I think we would try to get into that a little later, but yeah, just take us through your your journey, like your story. If I'm not mistaken. You grew up in Japan, parents in the.
Military kind of yeah, my dad been in the Air Force, but my parents split, they got divorced. I was in Japan from three and a half till twenty Okay, and so lived off base, worked, went to school, did everything off base, but a lot of the interactions we had was on base, and I got to see all the different branches. I got to see who they were as they carry themselves as an international representative, right they're representing the United States in another country. So I got to
see how each of the forces carried themselves there. I got to see their side when they were with the families and who they were within a family environment. I got to see them do physical training and see like who's the highest standard, and like every time it always shone through his always the Marine Corps for me, Like whether it's doing something out in town. You know everybody parties are twenty one. These are young marines. But you
see somebody a little too drunk. They pick them up, put them in a TAXI, take them home and make sure he's safe. And then I watch Air Force like fall into the streets cause an accident. See what those are the branches.
I'm like, yeah, no, no, that's for me.
And then like physically, like when you think of how sharp a Marine Corps uniform looks like to me, it's the most badass uniform. It looks so cool and It's just I always saw them carrying themselves, and I just knew that education school wasn't for me. I love learning, but doing in an environment where I have to like sit in the classroom be forced to learn certain things, It's like, I'm not that kid. Yeah, I'm not that kid. And I knew that about me, and I knew financially too.
For me, the athletics is something that I passion for, but financially it just wasn't a place for my family. Was something to'd be able to afford to go away to college and to be able to pursue that. So the military really just fit every mark for me, and that brought me to the United States. When I was in the Marine Corps, I started to learn about MMA, fell in love with that, started just doing workouts and
challenging myself, trying new things. And then when I got out, it was like day one of officially being out of the Marine Corps, started training and it's almost fifteen years later and I haven't stopped.
WHOA did you have that moment of getting punched in them out the first time? Being like all right, I didn't, man, I didn't like that, but I can deal with it. Was that in UFC Marines before.
Probably in the so I definitely got in fights as a kid. Yeah, I was just like a tiny little kid, and I was just raised to think that everybody has a right to play sports and it doesn't matter if you're a girl a boy. And my dad's like, hey, you're stronger than most kids. You actually need to dialop back in, nicer and very protective over my younger sister.
She was like teeny tiny and frail. And then so then once it was a part of the Marine Corps and we're like learning how to kind of where to direct this and do things like wow, this is really fun and really cool, Like I can take a hit and I don't nobody wants to take it and always sit in there like this feels good. Nobody does that. But you know you realize, like, hey, I'm actually a lot tougher than other people. I'm not crying about any
of these experience. I got a peogle stick to the face and fell off the barrier and I'm on the ground and I'm ready to get back up. And so I think I learned there that like physically pushing myself, that I could take a lot more than other people, and I like challenging myself to the maximum and physically in every way possible. And then once I got into MMA and I had like my first sparring sessions. I think it was my first week ever of training, Like
it probably started like on a Wednesday. Fridays are usually known for every single class being sparring classes. And I show up and it's like, hey, you got the heavyweights and that's who you're gonna spar I'm like okay, Like weight classes wasn't the thing to me and understand. So I'm like, yeah, you told me to do this, I'm gonna do it. And it's like coming out, my nose is busted, my hair's ripped out, my shirt's torn, and
I was like cool. They're like, yeah, we'll see if we'll be back on Saturday, and I'm like, well, I'm at that point. I'm also man like if you tell me like come back tomorrow, I'm gonna do whatever you say. Hey, go jump from that car to help you train, like okay. So they're like we'll see you tomorrow. I'm like, okay,
I'll see you tomorrow. They come back like most people don't actually come back, and I was like you told me too, So I'm here, like, if you tell me to do eight hours back to back, I'm doing eight hours. So I just found out that that's what I love doing and more than anything that getting hit is out of it. It was just the learning experience of I love then Mma. It's not checkers, it's chess, right, There's so many pieces on the board that you have to learn.
You have to understand all of them. And that's the same thing. Like you're learning how to do boxing and muay Thai and wrestling and judo and all of it, and then how to combine it all together. And I love that. It's so challenging and engaging and pushing me intellectually, mentally and physically that it's just addicting. And I just couldn't help but just keep you back from more.
You've gone through things and you're like where everything is about,
like physical thing injuries can happen. I know with my work doing criminal justice policy, where we see a lot of people actually kind of lead down a place of pain management, where it goes to a place of potentially hope you a addiction or things is after an injury where I know when I was working on resencing for a gentleman who is in the Marine Corps towards ACL or acting, got you know, strung out on pain pills and had a fake gun in his pocket, try to
rob some CBS once they cut them off and edit that thing you sayed relatively help you know, pain free.
But you see that. Can you talk about some of the I guess the things that you've seen in your career, either to you personally or to other people around that, where you've seen the way that our system works, what we prohibit and what we allow, and what we see as kind of okay and what we don't how that actually leads to pretty negative consequences for people, not just for their careers, but their lives as well.
Yeah.
Absolutely. I mean when we talk about injuries, right, you're already going through combat sports put so much wor and tear in your body. It's inevitable even if you come out without injury, Like you have less cartilage, you're in your strained. You know, you're taking little bone spurs which like microfractures, and that just calcifies you know, like there's things that are going to happen and you just can't get around it. Then you talk about the fatigue, the soreness, right,
concussions and how that alters everybody, Like I could. I can remember one of my training partners he got knocked out one practice and comes back to him. We're like, hey, do you like said no, I want to keep going, and just a lack of knowledge right to understand, and so the coaches like, you know, he said he's good. He's good. Now I understanding, Like that could have been two concussions back back, he's dead, Like he goes home, he doesn't wake up right, and then you start to
see like more and more he's altered. He's not sleeping as well, he's having anger issues. He's stealing and getting involved in alcohol when you never touched alcohol before getting involved with drugs. Right, you definitely see changes where people were like getting speeding tickets that never and there were
safe drivers and all of that. Seeing injuries where somebody who was a clean person got surgery, had never had opiates before, and they give to you like, hey, here's a bottle of twenty five and they advise you like you don't have a nurse that's staying there to help you, right, right, So you're trying to limp around your house, or you're trying to like grab stuff and you only have one arm and your limit. Nobody is regulating everything. I'm like,
here's the bottle. We'll see you get into the month. And they taste it, They're like, whoa, this is kind of cool for the people that like it.
I can function.
Yeah, they feel really good now, nobody.
You know.
I didn't really listen that much because I'm just coming out of surgery and somebody said like, hey, don't drive when you do these, and they feel so good they go out driving.
You definitely see pastime. Yeah right, somebody makes.
A small mistake and that alters the course of everything. I saw a fighter who was young, and again he had surgery. He just come out and nobody was there to help him, and he does exactly that. He drives. He gets a DUI because he's on pain meds, driving under the influence, and he didn't release. I guess it is on the bottle, but I was kind of out
of it. I didn't listen to anybody, and then loses his job because of it, loses his license because of it, can't go do his job right, and then loses his apartment and then down just goes downhill from there, the fight career is over. So the one thing that he was passionate and loving goes away from him, and he just see their whole life go off course, and people aren't advising you on alternates, like, yeah, cannabis can be a great alter to that, so you can do something
that's gonna remove the pain. Like I've had surgeries and thankfully, like, I hate opiates just it makes me feel so sick. I don't like how my body feels, so I wean myself off. They're like, all right, cool, so you're gonna do this much. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm just not gonna do the pills and get rid of it and take it into too the clinic and like give it to them. I don't have to take these, so thankfully for me, I don't like them, right, and I'm fortunate, But that's not so many other people.
That struggle with that, and so many people find out they like them in a situation where you know, it wasn't even like.
They would go yeah, yeah, something they wouldn't seek out. They had a surgery, they had an injury where they're like, here, take this insteady, and so yeah, it's just automatically come out of it, and nobody's even recommending other options. And I very quickly weaned myself off of it, and I was like, I don't I don't want to take this. I don't like it. Thankfully, my mom came out and she'd been a nurse, so she helped me. She's like, oh, you need to take this much. I'm like, I don't
want to. So she's like bringing me pain meds. I'm like sneaking them in a napkin and just like throwing them away and not telling her.
Yeah.
Right, and then and then she's like, okay, cool, we can kind of like dial it down and reduce the hours. I'm like, ohyeah, already, stop taking it? Yeah what like, yeah, I stopped taking them. I don't take them, are you no? But I'm given to you. I'm like, yeah, I've been throwing in the knapp boy like I don't take some super fortunate And then I started getting into CBD because
I really wanted to remove the pain. I wasn't right, there was still pain there, but I was like, Okay, this is much more manageable and I feel more in connection with my body. And when I went into the doctor and like he hate, everything's looking great. You know, how are you doing on pain? I'm like, yeah, I don't. I stopped taking the payments in the first week. Like you can't do that. I'm like, well I did what I did.
Yeah, And like, well, how do.
You manage the pain and the inflammation? Like everything looks really good. I'm like CBD. They're like I don't think that does that?
You know?
Mind you this is wow ten years ago, right, and like, yeah, I don't think so. I'm like, well, that's the only thing I'm doing is I'm doing CBD for pain and for inflammation. And I've done all the other protocol you guys have said, but it's it's CBD. It's hardy do things. And mind you, had I know more about cannabis, I probably would have used that as an alternative, because there was still a lot of pain and a lot of sleepless nights trying to get through it. And I'm like
I'm just not I feel so sick. I'm giving the pain meds that they gave me. It's just not even an option. Trying to like argue with the doctor about like I'm not going to do pain meds when that's all they're advising you to do is do that. Was like, why am I having to argue about my care? Like you on this bottle also says like risk right, it could have all of these side effects, and they give
you a print out of all the bad possibilities. I'm like, you're giving me something and there's like twenty nine things on here that could go bad, one of which is death. And we know like the addiction level for people. Why would you push this on me? And what I have to argue about not taking this and tell you that, like you can prescribe it to me, I'm not going to get it. And I can remember, like I had another surgery and I come out and I'm like, hey,
I don't take payments and make me really sick. I don't like them, and I've learned how to deal with the pain. Like trust me, you're gonna want to take I'm like I'm not going to and they maybe they're like you cannot do the surgery and finish it off if you don't actually take this prescription. Like so I have to pay for a medication, I'm never going to eat And I told you guys, I'm like, we'll just give you a different one that'll agree with you better. I'm like, no, it's not God, I don't I don't
want to see this, like I'd rather not. And they didn't even give me an option.
It's pretty remarkable, like we're almost like forced into these buckets and you're not allowed to do the other things. And so I'm curious with your journey with with CBD. What was that first experience with it? Were you always kind of you know, hey, I always think this could be something interested? Were you skeptical just just curious your thoughts and how did you change over?
Yeah?
Yeah, I was super skeptical.
You know.
My mom was pretty open about her cannabis used and she's like, yeah, I like pot. You know, I was born this in the fifties. I've lived through sixties and seventies. I think you can have a healthy relationship with it. I'm like cool, I'm like, it's not for me. And I joined the Marine Corps and it's not an option, right, Yeah, And so the only thing I knew about CBD was THC base. I'm like, yeah, guys, I can't I fight for a living and I don't want to be high,
Like it's just not of interest to me. I'm good. And one of the guys I worked with, he was a veteran and he had a big connection with CBD. He's liken't check out this company. It doesn't have You're not going to get high by using CBD. And he's like, I was medically discharged from the Air Force. I experienced pain, and this is what I do to help me sleep, to help me go through anxiety, and to help me reduce the pain. He's like going to help so much.
He's like, I don't want to take pain meds and he's like, my body is so messed up for me medically discharge. I needed something. And he was a respectable person who's like leading this group that was helping veterans, really professionally human being and a guy I really trusted and liked. So I'm like, Okay, he's not a pothead, so you know, like I'm gonna trust him what he has to say about CBD. I started looking it up. I'm like, Okay, maybe you can do CBD without getting
high and I don't have to worry about stuff. And I talked to the company and I was like, Wow, these people nobody's they're not all potheads here and they're showing me around their business and showing me everything, and everybody is really functioning. I'm like, I think I've really misunderstood one what a pothead was, and then two like CBD and THHC aren't the same thing. So they gave me some product to try, Like I don't know. I'm like, okay,
but like I'm having trouble sleeping. Pain's really bad. I tried it out and I didn't expect it. Like I
took the dose that they recommended. I'd laid on the couch and woke up and I'd been in the same position because I passed off so hard for the first time in like a month, and like my back was hurting because I was like sleeping in a weird position and I'm like, I slept on the couch like I don't sleep on the couch, and I'm like that was like eight hours ago, Like holy crap, and I'm not in pain other than I slept in a funky position, like I'm not in pain. Stuff. I'm like okay, And
I tried it again the next day. I'm like, Wow, this stuff actually really works, and yeah, I'm not high. There's nothing else coming negative about it. I feel really good. I feel like I'm managing mental health a lot better. Physically, I feel better, and because I'm not in pain, I'm sleeping through the night. All right, Maybe there was some
more truth thiss. So I did even more research to try and understand the different types of CBD and all the benefits of it, and the difference between THHC and CBD. I was like, Wow, this is actually really beneficial. Why wasn't I doing this before? Like I would have never I would have really fought with my surgeon about not using products like that with opiates and just on this instead. Like if I had known, I'm like, man, I definitely had a really a misunderstanding.
And you're someone in training nutrition, going out of doctors constantly being not one person like let alone someone that's just an insurance agent, you know kind of then except hurt their knee, like they're just going in call today they have no ID. Yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy. You weren't made aware of you.
Ever hied tolerance or a threshold probably for pain. So just imagine other people like the CBD. How much I guess maybe give us like a scale of how much it decreased your pain or what could people look too like equivalent.
You know, I mean substantially without all the like when I compared to an opiate, Like when I took opiates, I still felt the pain. It was just a different sensation of people, right right, and then it was just like.
It feels like you don't care then yeah yeah.
But then also I felt nauseous, I felt groggy, and then I felt bloated, and you know all these other like my sleep was weird and it wasn't good. On CBD, I was clear headed, you know. Inflammation was reduced significantly, and that was like a big thing too. Is when you train as much as I do, you have information all over your body and again and again, like I do blood work, My blood work markers will show inflammation levels and it shows a significant production. I'm talking fifty
percent in inflammation workers compared to what it had been. Right, So like, okay, well that I can clearly see is helping. I can see in a joint like if my elbow got smashed in and it's swollen, it reduced down. And so if I can visibly see no right inflammation, it's not swollen, it has gone down pain wise, I'm not focusing on the pain. There's still a little bit of pain there, but I'm aware of it. It's not distracting
me from it, and it still isn't hurting. I can go drive and I'm not impaired and go through So to me, just all around much better option than using other things that they give you.
Yeah. Me, I feel like you're an expert on it.
You've done You've done two of probably the toughest jobs, you know what I'm saying, for the marine and then to actually fight in a combat sport.
Yeah. So if people are listening to her and they're like, all right, this is Liz Carmon, she's a marine, she's a MMA fighter, Okay, that's her. What about what about just like the typical person, you know, they're going to the gym a few times a week, they're getting information. This is not gonna work. I need more. I'm gonna need something else. Like she can tolerate page, she can handle it. Like what would you say to them.
Yeah, I'd say my mom is a prime example. It's like, yeah, she used cannabis and she was is okay for like smoking weed, but CBD wasn't something she was familiar with, like the polar opposite. I didn't know anything about CBD, And again she was asking me, She's like, hey, I remember when you had surgery and you weren't taking on the obvious, but you got through it. Like what exactly
were you doing to help that? And she ended up having surgeries too, like she had to have knee replacement surgery and it didn't work, and so she definitely want something different because she's home alone really easy to just like be so focused on the pain and you get through it. And she tried CBD and she's like, this actually works really well, Like immediately I noticed information goes down immediately pain wise, it's almost like fifteen twenty minutes
where I notice a change in it. And she's so like hyper aware of her pain and in such a pain state that I mean, it's my mom's seventy two now, she's just turned seventy three. So like when you know, if you're like six year old mom and she's saying like, oh, I'm in pain, like she's not gonna get rid of pain. That's not somebody you definitely want to reduce it. So when she says there's a difference to me, that's a big difference. Yeah, yeah, right, And so that's who I
noticed more because, like you said, yeah, I could. I've gone through a lot of pain and learned how to, like to some level, turn that switch off and ignore it to some degree you have to. And she's somebody who like doesn't turn that switched off and definitely doesn't ignore it and notices it. And CBD changed that for her and she could notice a difference, and that's me speaks to it.
No, that's that's awesome. And I think obviously there's there's ignorance, and there's you know, an education on this and that the high you know that people just have that. And then I think a lot of that is because of our culture and our stigma behind CAMPA that MCBD, that it's still illegal in a lot of places. There's people in prison right now, you know, for doing things that people are making you know, millions for and things like that,
and so there is this stigma. And then also what happens when you have states that are legal or some are decriminalized, you get a lot of let's just call it bullshit on the market. And so a lot of people's first experience with cannabis is something where they thought it was this but then there's all this other stuff in it, or they thought they were going to take CBD and they got it like their you know, grocery
store down the road. It's like some five dollars tub And then you're like, Okay, why do you think this is gonna like it's getting like a five dollars lobster? Like you think it's gonna be a good lobster? Like, probably not? And so did you experience that? Have you seen people like I just know that there's a lot of there's a lot of crap out there, and a lot of that is because you know, there's this stigma
around it. Yeah, So I'm curious like did you have to sort through things that worked for you particularly or did you kind of have things come around?
Yeah?
No, No, I definitely had to. Thankfully, like I said, with my friend, he helped kind of direct it because he knew the company's producing it, right, So that made it definitely a lot easier when you get to go to it and you get to see firsthand what they're producing and the whole process and what they have. But
then yeah, then once federally everything changed. What was before you had to go out of your way and they only had like good quality stuff out there and it wasn't as popular to then it being oversaturated in the market where you're like, hey, it's twenty five cents for
the CBD. I'm like, yeah, that's that's probably not it right, right, But again, having to do research and really see stuff and try things out, I definitely have done things where I'm like, hey, I ran out of my CBD and I made a huge mistake in practice and I got dropped and because I got my legs kicked out from under me and twisting my ankle and now my ankle's sooling this big and I and I have I'm not going to go do anti inflammatory medication, Like I'm just
not that person. I'm not going to take it anymore. I'm not putting my liver through that. And I don't have CBD, so I need something. I'm like, cool, just went to the store, Like how convenience at the grocery shore. I'm like yeah, yeah, you know. Now look at it, I'm like, why is that twenty five milligrams or sugar in it?
Right?
Inflammatory marker and increases inflammation, Like that's not going to help me, so like, okay, not that, and then it's like, wow, I'm having to weed through to see all the junk that's here, canola oil and CBD. Yeah right right, So it's really it does become very difficult, and most people aren't looking ingredients in their food, let alone their medication to really discern what's the good what's the bad.
Yeah.
Right, And then most people too, they're like, hey, I can get my medication for twelve dollars for one hundred pills, and it cost me one hundred and twenty dollars to get good CBD. So very quickly people are being like, well, I'd rather go cheaper. I'm like, yeah, but cheaper's going to mess up your body. There's a reason for it.
Have you seen people that you're like, man, I wish i'd talked to them earlier, or kind of like changeovers where you're like they were doing X and now they're doing Y. Any other examples like that within your career, yeah, fighting, Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, talking to because I had been in California for a long time being on a fighting team and getting to have a lot of military personnel that you worked with, interact with that you knew they're like, hey, we see you. We know you're not the type of person that's going out getting high every day, So what are you doing because my body's messed up for the
military and I'm about to get out. Getting to talk to different rains and just seeing for them, they're like okay, difference, Like thank you so much, Like that that was huge, And then seeing other people too, where like you said, yeah, like what if those training partners that they discovered for trying to conflict with pain when they go to a doctor and doctors like, here, just take this. This is
going to help you. That if we had all discovered CBD earlier in life, if they'd still be around now and they wouldn't be drug addicts, the wouldn't have lost all their jobs, they wouldn't be in a mental health care facility because they lost it, you know. And it's like, yeah, I wish that we had all known better then and there had been this research and been more information out there, because maybe not, but I certainly hope that that would have made a difference had they had that option.
Yeah, very at least being exposed to it. For every person, there's going to be a different path and that can be the right path for people. But the fact that you don't even gain the information, like I know, for like veterans' affairs, you can't even go to them. They
can't talk to you about cannabis. They can't even write you a recommendation saying that you have PTSD if the purpose is to give it to like a state physician, which is you tell people that it's absolutely freaking crazy, but you don't even get the option to hear that. And then so where are you gonna go? You're gonna
go to other sources of information. And obviously you have a good head on your shoulder and you're looking at things and you have a team around you, but you're just sitting on the couch at home trying to figure it out, scrolling through and read you know, all this stuff. It's confusing and scaring. You're probably going to get something that's not greater poor information.
So yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, And like I said, when it comes to you have the option of having a product that's super cheap, right, Like you can get opiates and it's two dollars and you get twenty five pills that they prescribe you. But you can't be prescribed CBD, and you can't you want to have to spend one hundred and twenty dollars and you're doing the math like, well this is easier. Want to just do this instead and then don't have to research and look things up
and have to It shouldn't be that way. It it's so much cheaper to get these things that you know are hurting you rather than something that's helping them.
As far as with the veterans, have you seen like movement from like the top.
I see with the VA that they still fall under the conflict of federal enforcement. Right, So because federally we still learn this great of what THC, CBD and everything else can be used, they're not vocalizing any of that, and so unfortunately it's still pushed that the main source of what they're offering the military and veterans is still opiate's. It's still motor and it's still flex role for a muscle. Right. And then I do see that there are certain people
that really is just based on states to state. We're still in that conflict where I've heard some people where they're like, hey, you use CBD, and there's kind of like they can't say anything. These give you the thumbs up, and then you can be in a different state where like, no, you can't use that, those are drugs, and I'm like, whoa, what are we just like going from California to Tennessee and the hearing, I'm like, I didn't think that we went back in time and it was just such a
different scene. And the issue always run into is like whoever's in charge is on a rotation two to four years, whatever their term is. You could have somebody who at the end of the term is starting to see differences right and evolve with their policies and try and enforce new things and change things. But then the moment they start to make change, they're two to four years is up,
somebody else comes in with the whole different agenda. They're completely ahead of everything and they're like I see these involvements in these changes happening, or they're completely against it. And that's always the difficulties when with the military, Like even I can remember being in the Marine Corps and you have we have somebody who's in charge, right, they're in charge of all the Marine Corps. They come in they're like, our policy is a marines are allowed to
have tattoos, but only like a three court sleeve. Next person comes in, they go absolutely no tattoos whatsoever, and everybody that gets tattoos gets kicked out. Okay, so two weeks ago before you changed, we were just everybody went out and got three court sleeves like yeah, sorry, you're out now, and something like that. That really shouldn't have I understand, but shouldn't really have a plan in things.
They're inappropriate tattoos, which has always been the thing. But and that policy just tattoos is everything from medical like CBD being allowed, and then the next person comes in they go absolutely no CBD. You've got to you got it, absolutely ridiculous. And so whereas one person making changes and making headwig in a positive way, somebody else slides in
as a whole different thought process. And so it's really hard to keep up with it because the VA operates for the military, so in that same sense, they're evolving and rotating the same way that the military does. So it's really hard. And I see a lot of other people, like veterans like myself that have gotten out and they're trying to go to the VA and say like, hey, this needs to change, like these are the benefits that we're having. And they're trying to talk to people, but again,
you know, like they're making headway. They're going working the way up the structure to talk to more people, talking to the next head above them and above that. But then everybody changes and pre people are talking before they're
like yeah, absolutely, we hear what you're saying. You want to make changes, all those people are gone, right, And so it's really hard to make those movements, and to make those adjustments, it's got to start from much higher than that to be able to really have an effect.
Who's the man?
Yeah, in this situation, I think you know, we're gonna have to go to like higher government. We're talking like presidency. We're talking people within Congress, within the Senate. Those are the people that need to make those bigger changes because they're ultimately it's Congress and the Senate that has overseeing over them to make those changes. Right, So somebody changes
there and it trinkles down everybody's changes. So I think if we can at the beginning of somebody's term, get to them and be able to say like, hey, these are the positive effects that we think we could help introduce into the va that's when it starts to happen,
because that's when policies change. And unfortunately, what I see with the va IS is after so many losses like suicide within the veteran community and raising awareness on that, you know, like you lose a few veterans of suicide, that should be enough.
We should be like, hey, we should do something's going on here, not like hey.
Years of losing people to realize that what we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things.
And you were talking about some of the advocacy that's coming from the military community now. And I worked a little bit in Kentucky where Dakota Meyer was with someone who worked with a Republican governor to talk about, you know, bringing plant based medicines there to fight mental health and opioid addition. Because he said, you know, I'm a Medal of Honor, you know, recipient. I did multiple tours here. I've lost so many more people back home to suicide than I ever did on any of my tours over
I rack of Agans. So when you hear that, you can't just say oh, okay, moving on like that means something.
I think it's simply looking at the numbers, like if we look at how many deuis happen because of people being under the influence fights, just altercations that happen, violence that happens. Let's look at those numbers that are involved with alcohol and then look at all the numbers of these altercations that happen under the influence of THHC. I bet it's a lot most Like we said, most people, if they smoke weed, they haven't edible.
What do they want to do?
They want to veg out and they want to chill. They're not looking to go to a fight, whereas people ge get drunk. I know that I did too when I was in the Marine Corps. I got drunk like yeah, fighting socks fighting, so yeah, absolutely, you want to punch me like cool for no reason. Next day be like why did I do that? Like you're not hearing the people say the same thing, like why do oh I ate too much food? Like if nothing else alone, let's just look at that find you. I understand. You want
to restrict it. You want to make taxes, you want to make money. Let's just look at those numbers. Loan about live's loss altercations, money lost for having to give these people tickets, having to just everything there for violent acts destruction that's done the businesses because somebody was drunk and under the influence as opposed to people under the influencyc just compare those two numbers, and why why would we not say yes to one ding advice the other? Like,
I'm ingesting unnecessary calories. I don't feel good after doing this, whether there's decisions I made under the influence or the next day, I don't feel good. So I finally came to a point where I'm like and then doing more recent I'm like, wow, I was really really bad for you, but it's so socially acceptable, And I'm like, man, since I stopped and I don't even know when that was, but since I stopped drinking, I've never had to like argue with people so much about why I don't want
to drink. Where I go to any public event and they're like, hey, I'm like, oh, no, thank you, on to drinking.
Why not?
What's wrong with you? I'm like, I don't want to drink and like, just have one. I'm like, I don't want to have one. It's just one, You'll be fine. I'm like, I don't. I'm like, okay, but I've never like I've had somebody offer me wee. I'm like, no, I'm good, like all right, cool, no worries. Yeah, Like I never have to argue about that, but I have to argue my points to say, no, I don't want to drink and you are.
I'm not going to push it.
Yeah, do you want to hear this? No, that's a thank you that means this word for me.
But like, and being in events where people are like, I can't trust somebody that doesn't drink, like really because I almost can't trust somebody that can drink, right, because how often the next day you're talking to something, they're like, yeah, I don't remember saying or doing that, right man, that that's not trustworthy, and it's it sucks. I'm like, hey, somebody wants to drink, that's your choice. If I don't want to drink, that should be okay too. I'm not
judging you one way or the other. Yeah, And it's not. It's so culturally, it's such a part of our culture now that you're wrong if you don't drink.
Yeah, I'm curious with sports leagues have always they've been very similar kind of the van and on the other side of the private sector area you have sees as archaic. I think people see it. They always are on the forefront of a lot of things on how to make things work. Like you look during COVID, they were the first people to try to figure out how to open back up, and they were very you know, much more I think socially driven in a lot of ways on
social rights and drug policy and things like that. Accepting being open to that. Can you talk about a little bit your experience, like dealing with mixed martial arts and how you've seen that and maybe maybe seening parallels to other athletes that you see in other leagues where they're much more restrictive on these types of thing are not as supportive. I'd be really curious about that.
Yeah, Definitely in the early days, like Andrew asadav when you got drug tested, was no THC. There's no drugs of any sort, even if you're prescribed to medication, Like even if you had surgery, you still have to submit paperwork and doctors notices to say that you're approved to do that, right, and most of the time you're not thinking like you just came on doctor's office round, like yeah, I'm going to sbmit all this paperwork to Soden to get approval to say like hey, I'm supposed to take
this right. And then that changed to where the only rule was you couldn't have teasing your system ten hours before you fight and leading up to it, so it's within a certain window. And then talking to another friend that's a professional NBA player, they're like, yeah, no TFC at all. Ever doesn't matter the time. It does not ten hours before I have a competition. It's not twenty four,
there's no ever. And like CBD and now you're seeing like you said, you can see it as being one of the major parts within the cage where it's on the pad and it's a CBD company and like you show up to your fight and in your goodie bag where you have like their customary T shirt and also there's also CVD. Like a huge difference between like we're gonna test you, don't you dare have CBD in your body, to hey, we're gonna give you this c like wait,
wait is this fawn that ten hour window? Like I'm I actually allowed to do this, So a huge huge change and again not necessarily them advocating for induction how it helps you. It's not educating you on how it helps you. But going from its band you're not allowed to have it at all to now it's a part of your your gimme bag, right, you can have it.
It's a huge difference. And that's still not in public sports, right, You're still not seeing it in the major leagues where they're allowed to have these things and they have those same level of a lack of restriction. It's still very much a no go and they're not allowed to do it. And still in the military too.
Yeah, you would want something that kind of helps out or prolongs the ability of whatever sport or whatever player it is. Like you know, like Okay, if this dude recovers better with CBD then getting on these opioids, drinking, doing something dumb, you know, like how much of that is a factor? How much like with anything where you might get a concussion, Like, is there any research on that?
Yeah, there's there's not research on it. Because I was curious about that too, just to see because if it's reducing inflammation, then theory some of the damage is done from brain damage, is inflammation within the brain right now, right, and I know that I'd gotten dropped really bad in practice, like it got a really bad concussion, and try to do everything from omega acids and trying to make sure that I have my omega threes, doing everything from healthy
fats to fish oils to all the like allions made mushrooms and things like that. So trying to ingest as much as that doing pressure treatment where they push in the chamber right. And then the other thing I did was like, oh, I upped my CBD because I kind of fallen off. I was like, oh, no, no big deal.
Like I'm like, oh, I made sure. And I'm a part of a study that does brain scans and if you get a concussion, if there are markers in your brain, they're not getting it's in your blood and because you have increased information in your blood and they can see like essentially scars issue in your brain is permanent. It doesn't go away you get a concussion. It's not like,
oh you just magically heel for it. The majority of information hills, but the scars there's like a cut, like you get cut, it heals, but you still have the scars. It's the same thing. So they know if you have a concussion. And I went in, I did the scan stuff and they're like, cool, so did you have you retired from fighting? I'm like, excuse me, Like with your brain, it's just like it's healing and some of the scars
are not there that were there before. Like I'm like no, Actually, it's kind of crazy because about three months ago, I got dropped really bad and I had a headache for like a week straight. And they're like no, I'm like yes, Like it's not a question, it's not a doubt. Like I'm so I just fought. We scheduled this because I just had a fight, and you have to wait so many, like thirty days before you can go and start doing this testing again. And they're like, oh wait, you did
say that. They're like it doesn't your scams don't make any sense, Like what are you doing. I'm like, the only thing I can say is a clean diet. I don't drink anymore in CBD. Right, It's like we might need to add that as some of the research because this doesn't make sense. Like looking at it, you're like back backwards, You're you're faster, you're sharper. Your scams are healthier than they were last time.
Is that the Cleveland brain study. But a lot of the NFL players are amazing. Yeah, OK, that's really fascinating.
That's good to know.
Like you said, it needs to be more more research on that kind of stuff.
Yeah, because that's that's impressive.
And maybe it's just for me, you know, I don't know. Just like I know that like if we wait until the body in the brain are fully developed and you ingest drugs or alcohol, the likelihood that you get addicted goes down, and the likelihood that you use those products also goes down. And then the impact that it has on your brain is it's not forming because it's already formed. So like your level, it doesn't compromise. Like you have a kid that smokes sweet at thirteen and then is
smoking weed all the time. Their brain is altered because of that, right, right, like twenty six years old, that's your first time trying anything. Your brain isn't really altered. Still has effects, but not the same, right, So I don't know if maybe just because I had never done cbdtch HE or anything until I was in my thirties, if that influenced it, right, and why it had a positive effect or other than a negative effect.
I don't know.
And then again those are other parameters that they'd have to consider when doing that study. Is the age and the development of the brain and how that kind.
Of right and like you said, your relationship with it.
Yeah, thank you so much for your time today, Liz.
This has been awesome.
We want to keep your goys long But just one last quite kind of ending on a note of kind of moving looking forward. Where do you see kind of veterans' access moving forward? Where have you seen where we really need to start focusing what can people do to help and where can people get more educated? Just any thoughts that you have kind of on the next two five years, you know, kind of moving forward then and access to this type of care.
Yeah, I think for veterans, like it's officers need to step up to the role more, right, Like most of the people I know that are stepping up and they're approaching the VA and they're trying to make change. They're in former enlisted and it's just one there's there's a niche market with with the officers where they have such a good community. One they're at the top, right, so the top is going to make connections to the other people at the top and be able to speak off
Like you aren't seeing senators and congressmen. They're former and listed, they're former officers, right right. So in that same sense, if we can get the officers to speak up and to make the differences and to approach, whether that's the listed personnel former and listed, the talks home. But it's the officers that need to use the connections that they have to be able to make the change and to reach out to their congressmen, their senators, the higher ups
that they have. They're in charge and leading the way to be able to start implementing these new policies and making new change to help the veteran community.
Awesome, Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, yeah, no, And we and we need that. We gotta.
We got to treat our veterans better, like you said, people that put in willing to do that sacrifice, you know what I'm saying, Like they deserve the best when it comes to treatment and like their mental health and all that type of care. So yeah, I love what you're doing. Appreciate you. Yeah, amazing, You're bad ass. You know this, you know what I'm saying. So Okay, this is the last question I have. If I ever get hit in the face, what is the best way to deal with it?
And where do I need to go? Mentally?
Oof, that's you know, that's where it comes into a fight or flight response, because.
I'm thinking flight. I'm thinking flight. Do I have Do I have a way out?
But that's not the wrong approach, you know. Like even even I've been out in town hanging out with the friends, a drunk altercation happens and they're like, hey, lizen like, I'm not the bouncer, I'm not coming in like the higher yeahs to be a fight, but I'm like, it doesn't, Like, why do I want to jump into a fight? There's no point in that. I'll be like, hey, calm the friends, let's walk out here, let's get the way for the altercation.
I don't think that that walking away from the situation is the wrong I think if you're trying to protect somebody, like if somebody attacks your son, yeah, you know, try and safely get him out of there if you can and run away. But if that's not because you're carrying a child, like I know my eight year old son, he's a lot denser than he looks. He's a scrawny little kid, and then you pick him up, like, how
are you seventy pounds? You look like you're like thirty pounds, right, So like moving seventy pounds is a lot harder than you think it is. So like trying to get them out there, They're like, you're going to face situations where you do have to fight, but I think more often looking for the safe way to exit that situation. It's the best way to go.
Liz, thank you again. Is there a place that we could direct folks at all? Is there any website anything you want to play?
Yeah?
I do need to get a website go, And I've been saying that for years. I still end up never doing it. From the most part, I'm on millions and that's kind of a way that people can help give back to me. And then the biggest source for social media is Instagram, Instagram perfect.
Yeah, and where can we find you on Instagram? On Instagram? I am gorilla girls.
It's awesome.
Well, thank you again. Yeah, Liz is an awesome guys. Check out Liz Carmoush. Go to a girl rilla on Instagram to her and thank you again.
Thank you so much.
Thank you appreciate it all right, welcome back, special thanks again to Liz Carmouche. Yes, awesome interview. I've always heard that Cleveland Brain study. I didn't really know what was about it was participating. I thought that was like really fascinating, Like she was just talking about.
If that's not enough to get you on board with at least the research aspect of it, at least the trial and experimental aspect of it, I don't know what it is.
I don't know.
I don't And Liz is like the most like straight level being a marine was like emboldened her by like she is, like she was very skeptical of this at first, and she had a lot of the questions I think a lot of people do, like is it addictive? Is it's like it's gonna make me sleepy? Or is going
to make me tiree yes, exactly. Those are all valid questions that we don't really have like a place to just like discover and like understand and being able to talk to your doctor about it or something like that. And so I think that was really important to show, like, I mean, these are skeptics that are coming through that the height of their control. This isn't someone that's just
trying to have a good time. They're trying to prove themselves better, themselves, continue to do their profession and the passions that they love. And I think a lot of people can resonate with that. That's I definitely did, And I've talked to my parents about you know, guys, they've gotten older, like you know, using CBD, and they've had those same questions, and so I'm happy for them to be able to listen.
To this, And like we were saying, is having those conversations, is being able to put it in a way where they can understand it. And sometimes you need it, You need to hear somebody else lay it out in a way with the credentials to make it valid exactly.
I really just I thought that was such an important conversation to have because it just again it shows not only the things that were we know about and have knowledge and capabilities to explore more on CBD and on HEMP and what works and what's not. And then we also at the same time have states trying to claw these back. Veterans can't even go to their their VA doctor and talk about this a lot. It's just this weird,
like again complicated piecemeal. We're almost living in multiple universes and worlds like within this like policy and it's just again it's a recurring theme Ticklar with cannabis, as like we live in this kind of gray area of the world with it.
Yeah, and it doesn't make sense, And I think that's what we're doing a good job of highlight it doesn't.
It doesn't make sense.
Yeah, if alcohol is not that effective of opioids, if you're not looking at that like it's detrimental when you have the facts right in front of you, Yeah, then what are you doing?
Yeah?
You know, something Liz was talking about that really resonated was that you know it with the veterans, it's going to take the officers, it's going to take those people to kind of like move through. And if you have veterans in your life and people that are in the military, they're not getting a lot of this information from the sources that we may think they would be. So maybe you could be that or at least like open up to them and say, like, what's your story, what's going on?
Because a lot of people are struggling and hurt and may not know Avenue's resources or anything else going out there.
Yeah, talk to the people you have in your family and community, share this episode with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Liz also talked a lot about how whenever she would go to the doctor after having surgery or anything, they would try to push her to those pain medications, the painkillers, and she was adamant about I'm not taking those. I do CBD, this is how I recover, and just how important it is for the medical community to study
this or take her seriously. She says she dealt with so many doctors that didn't believe that she wasn't taking them, and that there's no way she could be here with that kind of pain without going to an opioid or the traditional go to painkillers.
Yeah. Again, this is not going back to some of the roots that we dug in season one. Misinformation about some of the benefits of potentially some of these things are, how harmful they are or not. A lot of that research is driven in the dirt, and then it doesn't get research at places, and we still need so much more research, and like I said, the ignorance of a lot of what CBD is compared to THC and what
they do and what they don't. It leads to really bad policy, and it leads to people filing bills to remove the whole thing. And you know, you're like, you're going to do this to things that don't even make people high. But again it's the lack of research and education and it's ignorance. And I think that stems in a lot of the medical where they are under a guy's and regulations on what they can and cannot say
about certain things. They can't talk to you about this if they if they're not allowed to or that or this diet. Not even just with like cannabis, it's with other things, like there are things that are allowed to pbscriber and they're allowed or not because those are on those regulations. A lot of that comes from the prohibition that we have on cannabis. It is a schedule one drug. It is a Schedule one drug, and all the other
ones are prehbaitive. It's MDMA. You know you need all these special and it really gets into that, and again it just makes all this that much more frustrating when you hear these stories of people succeeding and others cannot because.
Of what else right not even given the option right exactly, and that's why these stories are important, man, I mean, get them out there so people do have the language and the capacity to talk about it with their love one.
No, absolutely, thank you, Liz, And again we're going to keep rolling for the next episode, episode four. Another amazing kind of unique experience and something that's kind of coming up. We talk about, you know, being California sober and what that means with Marcus King, who is an amazing i'll just say, a southern rock musician, just overall amazing. We got to interview him here in DC, and then I got to go to his concert he was playing that night. My wife and I went and saw some of the folks.
Just an incredible artist, an incredible story and one that again I think will resonate with a lot of people coming from a small town, not a lot of resources out there, what does that look like? And again you're gonna have to listen to it to find out. But this is when I did solo as well, so you're gonna learn the same time.
Let's do it. I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, awesome, that's the Again, it's special.
Thank you.
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