Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It's the WallBuilders show where we're taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I'm Rick Green, America's constitution coach and a former Texas legislator, thrilled to be here with David and Tim Barton, two great historians. David's America's premier historian, just a wealth of information and an entire library of material that he's put out over the years to help educate, equip and
inspire us. I know, I use it on a regular basis. And so many people across the nation have been blessed to be educated by David. Tim Barton, of course a national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. And if you haven't had Tim in to speak, you should book Tim in to speak. And you can learn more about all three of us at our website, WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com. This WallBuilders show is a way to get truth out there into the marketplace, to equip people, to
inspire them. And we thank you for supporting it. If you haven't donated lately, we encourage you to do that, go to WallBuilders.com or WallBuildersLive.com . Make that one time or monthly contribution that puts fuel in the tank, allows us to add stations, allows us to train more pastors, teachers, students, you know, all people that run for office, legislators, all of these different folks. When you donate
it allows that to happen. It's basically your way of coming alongside us, locking shields with us, and investing in freedom for future generations. All right, David and Tim special program today, I'm embarrassed to say this comes out of Texas, and it's a professor in Texas being fired for simply teaching biology. I hate to giggle, but I mean, it's just unbelievable how silly the left has gone. And so we're going to have Dr. Varkey with us and his attorney from
First Liberty. Of course, we love Kelly Shackelford and the folks over at First Liberty, but I just want to test you guys real quick. How long do you think it's been that we've been teaching that there's male and female? I mean that's probably a new concept, right? Like we just now are starting to teach the idea that there's only two genders, male and female? Or do you think that's been around a little while?
I'm going to say probably in the 5,800 recorded years of human existence. It started off in the beginning, God made them male and female. So yeah, um, pretty much, you know, just the last decade or two or last year or two with the new alphabet soup, transgender movement. Yeah, it's crazy. I
mean, really crazy. The arguments and debates we are having today, when people suggesting that to say, what has been a universally known for thousands of years, is now hateful and racist, and you're bigoted, and all these whatever kind of negative terms they want to associate with anybody that holds these positions, it's crazy that we are now at that
place. But um, you know, Dad, you talked about something, one of the verses you've used in your presentations over the last year or so, is when people reject truth, it kind of... there's a foundational shift that happens in somebody's life, when they determine that they are going to reject truth, because part of what happens with rejecting of truth is there's a void, there's something that needs to be
filled. And there's a lot of things you can fill it with, but there's also a consequence that even the Bible clarifies will happen to people that openly and intentionally reject truth, the consequence they endure in their own lives.
Yeah, Tim, that sequence is found in Second Thessalonians chapter two, verses 10 through 12. It says, because they did not love the truth. They weren't willing to embrace the truth. It said God sent them a delusion, and they believed a lie, and they were damned or that is cursed or judged as a result. So it's a real simple sequence. If you don't love the truth, a delusion is going to enter, you will believe what's not true and you will suffer stupid consequences
as a result. And that's what we're seeing today for sure.
Alright guys, quick break. We'll be right back with Dr. Varkey and his attorney Kayla Toney from First Liberty. Stay with us you're listening to WallBuilders.
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. The year after the American War for Independence ended we began addressing the issue of Muslim terrorists in North Africa who were attacking American ships, killing, and enslaving American seamen. Congress dispatched John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to negotiate peace. And when they asked the Muslim ambassador the reason for the unprovoked attacks. He told them that it was written in their Qur’an.
That it was their right and duty to make war upon them whenever they could be found. Sixteen years of negotiations failed and in 1801 America sent its military to crush the terrorists. When that war ended in 1805 the first American edition of the Qur’an was published, urging Americans to read the Qur’an to see for themselves that its teachings were incompatible with the safety and peace of non-Muslims.
To see the first American Qur’an and to get more information about America’s first war on Islamic terror go to WallBuilders.com .
Welcome back to WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us, today. Very interesting story coming out of San Antonio, Texas and once again First Liberty Institute is on the front lines and defending our rights there. And we're thrilled to have them with us today. Kayla Toney is with us from First Liberty, Kayla, thanks for coming on. Of course, thank
Of course, thank you so much for having me.
Well, you've brought your client with you as well, Dr. Johnson Varkey from... professor there at San Antonio, fired for simply teaching biology. I guess this is the new way of things in our universities, these days, but wanted to know, you know, what's the status of the case, wanted to get Dr. Varkey to tell us the story of what happened. I'm sure he just deviated completely from all of biology by saying that there's, you know, male and female chromosomes, but we'll
get the story. So you guys, tell us what happened.
Thank you, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk [about] what happened. It happened in November to the end of November last year, I was teaching human reproductive system, four of my students just walked out. So I didn't know what the repercussions or anything, coming. But in January, I got a letter from the vice president of academic affairs that they are doing an ethics violation investigation on me. So I responded to his email and asked him what are the complaints?
And, you know, I didn't know who complained and what was the complaint, and I said, who is that that needs to be investigated. So he said, the human resources are in charge, and they are the one dealing with this issue. But I didn't get any call or any information from any response from the human resources. But two weeks later, I got another email from the same person, the Vice President of Academic Affairs, that I am
terminated. My employment is terminated or because I... there was complaints that I did religious preaching in class, which I never did. And the thing that from the very nature of his letter, I assume that it is the human reproductive system that they are talking about. In that class, I mentioned that the chromosomes, we have 23 pairs of chromosomes and the 23rd pair is the one that determines our sex.
So if that, those chromosomes are x and x, that person would be a female, and if it's x and y, that person would be a male. And our thinking doesn't change that x-x or x-y, then the second thing I mentioned was, you know, to perpetuate human species for the continuation of our human species, the sex has to be between a male and female, not between two men or two women.
And then the third thing I mentioned was, you know, when a sperm which has 23 chromosomes, joins with an egg, which also has 23 chromosomes, we have a zygote, that's the first cell that divides, and eventually it becomes a human being. So you know, the conception, that's what the textbook says, you know, when a sperm joins with egg, that is time of conception. So I said thats the time when the life of a person begins, not
afterwards. So when I mentioned all those three things, the four students just walked out, and I assume that was the reason for the termination, but the VP or the school, they haven't given until now, the reason for my termination.
So let me get this right. It's religious teaching now, according to them, to simply state biological facts that you've been teaching for 20 years. And that's never been claimed before.
That is correct. That is correct. They complain that it was religious preaching. I never did, or I never mentioned anything religious in class.
And just to be clear, because I didn't mention that at the opening. I mean, when I say 20 years, you've literally been teaching since 2004. But these biological facts are not new. That's not just in the last 20 years. That's all of human history we've taught this type of thing, so I got to... I mean, how do your colleagues respond? I guess that's my first question. Other professors that have to know how absurd this is, are they rallying to to defend
you? Or are they afraid that they're going to get fired too?
Yeah, that's what I suspect. That's what because from a brief conversation between me and some of the faculty members, you know, they are kind of afraid to come forward.
Wow. Wow, Kayla, I gotta ask you, I mean, and we'll get into the legal aspects here in a second. But just from a chilling of speech, of, you know, the whole tyrannical idea that people would now cower and be quiet, because they're afraid of getting fired. I mean, that's why it's so important to defend someone like this. And for you guys to step into the gap here.
Yes, we absolutely agree. The First Amendment protects the speech of faculty members, like Dr. Varkey, to teach in accordance with their study, their research, their experience, and also with their religious belief. Now, the college is the one who made this
about religion. Dr. Varkey, as you know, is just teaching the basic facts of science, but by accusing him of religious preaching, and then by, you know, refusing to let him meet with the students or see the complaints they made, or have any sort of cooperation, or due process, the college is really silencing the speech of not just Dr. Varkey, but, you know, many other professors that are, yeah, afraid to share their actual views, or to teach in class and, you know, academic freedom
actually benefits the student, most of all, because students need to be exposed to ideas that might be different from their own, that's part of the point of higher education is, you know, to encounter different ideas with respect, and be able to have conversations about them. So by shutting that down, the college is really doing its own students a disservice as well.
Well, I missed that point, so that... he's not allowed to see the complaints or confront, if you will, his accuser, if we could say it that way, and not even know, really the specifics of why he's been fired?
That's right. That's right. All we know, is this accusation of religious preaching, and that, you know, really shows the hostility that, you know, it's a stereotype that just because he's a pastor, on the weekends, you know, students assume that he must be preaching in class, and the college has,
you know, gone that route. So we do think that the fact that Dr. Varkey, is a pastor, in addition to his role as a biologist and a professor, we think that has a lot to do with the hostility that he has experienced.
Let me ask you about the legal aspect here. So as the strongest case, the religious liberty part of it or free speech, I mean, where are you guys going with it at this point? There's not a lawsuit, yet, right? Right now, you're just trying to get them to do the right thing? Or is there an actual lawsuit already filed?
Great question. Yeah, so we sent a demand letter to the college on June 20. And then on July 24, we filed a charge of discrimination with the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission, which is the federal agency that handles discrimination complaints. And so they're currently investigating the case. And then they will respond to us within six months and issue what's called a right to sue letter. And at that point, we can pursue litigation in federal court against the college. And as of
right now, that's our plan. We have multiple claims. So Title Seven is the federal law that protects employees from all kinds of discrimination, including religious discrimination. So the college violated that when it fired Dr. Varkey, because of his religion, and then the First Amendment, as you know, protects freedom of speech. And that includes academic freedom for professors in the classroom. And it also protects free expression of religion, and that prohibits
hostility toward religion. And so we're able to argue, under both of those, you know, elements of the First Amendment that the college is really in the wrong here,
And you guys have had at First Liberty, great success, the fire chief, a lot of others that you guys have represented and been able to, you know, defend their their constitutional rights, of course, and just for our listeners, of course, I've maintained my position that the EEOC is completely unconstitutional and the federal government have nothing to do
with any of these things. But while it's out there, and while those tools are available, I completely support using those tools and going after this, you know, St Philip's College using EEOC while it's there, so hats off to First Liberty for this case, and Dr. Varkey, for standing, for being willing to fight back and not just, you know, slink away like a lot of people do that don't want to take this on because I would think you've already thought
about this. And you know, you and Kayla probably already talked about this, but this is not just for you. This is for every professor out there to just be able to do teach science or to not be fired because of what you know, their side job or their side passion, and certainly in this case, your religion, on the side. You're doing this for more than just you. This is for academic expression in general.
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
I hope that we can help and that our listeners can help and Kayla, of course, encouraging them to go to the website, follow the case, spread the news, donate to First Liberty, so you guys can continue to to represent clients like this. What else could we do to help and getting the word out there?
Yes, well, you can certainly go to our website at first liberty.org, where you can learn more about Dr. Varkey's case, there's a great interview that he does, you know, kind of explaining the case, in his own words, that's actually gone viral on YouTube. So that's been a lot of fun for us to see the international support that's gathering for him. And then certainly check out our other
cases as well. You know, these workplace issues are really where we're seeing a lot of threat to religious liberty right now, especially relating to education. And so you know, we have a portal on our website where you can request legal help. So if you have any religious liberty issues yourself, or would just like a free consultation with one of us, you know, we're able to represent our clients free of charge, clients of all faiths, which is, you know, a great
privilege. So please feel free to think of us, reach out to us, you know, if you would like to discuss these similar issues, and yeah, I just agree. It's so inspiring to see Dr. Varkey's courage and his willingness to stand up and protect the rights, not just his own rights, but really the rights of all religious Americans who want to be able to live and work freely without fear of retribution.
Amen. Amen. Dr. Varkey one last question. I'm no biologist, I'm no scientist. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So I, you know, I can't have a professional opinion on this. But you've been teaching this for 20 years, 1,500 students since 2004. Did the science just change? Do you know, is what happened here? The science just changed on us and you just haven't come along with it?
The science doesn't change. And it's the same... it's virtually human anatomy and physiology, that's what I've been teaching. It has been there. I mean, if you look back and trace back, we have hundreds of years of, you know, material, online or even textbook. Science, it's the same thing. It's a basic biology that I taught, that has been, you know, there available to us, for the last many hundreds of years.
Amen. Amen, I actually said that was the last
What do you want to see happen here? Get your job back? Be able to teach? Prevent them from do... I mean, what is kind of the remedy that you're looking for here?
Yeah, that's what we're looking for. I want my job back. And that's what Kayla, and thank God for First Liberty and that they are fighting for get to my job back. Again, as Kayla said that, of course, they need to acknowledge that they broke the state law and the federal law, and they broke my First Amendment right to speak.
Yeah, yeah. Actually oh, I'm keeping you longer than I said I would. You mentioned state law. And I meant to ask you that Kayla, what, you know, as I said, I think the feds shouldn't be involved in this. But I do think there should absolutely be protections. Do we have anything in Texas to protect against this? I mean, is the...
Yes, so Texas has its own civil rights law that prohibits employment discrimination, very similar to Title Seven. And then Texas also has its own RFRA, which stands for Religious Freedom Restoration Act. And that's a very powerful law, that essentially says, when someone's religion is substantially burdened by a government action, the government has to meet the very hardest test constitutional law, which is called strict
scrutiny. So essentially, the government has to have a very, very compelling reason in order to violate someone's religious rights. And here, you know, that's certainly not the case. So we, yes, we do plan to argue under the Texas RFRA that Dr. Varkey... Yeah, that his rights were violated. And that's a very powerful protection that's available to Texans. And there's also a federal version of RFRA
that's also very powerful. But since this is, you know, a state sponsored college, that's why we're able to use the state law.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, good. Well, I'm embarrassed as a Texan that this would happen. In Texas, we fund these colleges with our tax dollars, and thankfully you guys are going to hold them... hold their feet to the fire and make them do the right thing here. So God bless you for standing. And we look forward to getting an update from you, and get both of you back soon when it's resolved. Appreciate y'all coming on today.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with David
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We're back here on WallBuilders, thanks for staying with us. David and Tim, you know, they're going to win this, I can't imagine this school not backing down. And then it also been a good, you know, ripple effect to other schools across the country. But I just, I'm shocked that he had 20 years of experience. This wasn't like some guy that just started as a professor, it wasn't like me going onto a campus first time teaching, saying, I mean, this guy had a great record, never
had other complaints. This is what we call in the legal world good facts, right? This is the kind of case you want.
Well, it is crazy what happened, the fact they're not even telling him what the charge and accusation is. You're going to fire someone and not tell them what it is, and then tell him there's complaints but not shown what the complaint was. So they're not giving him a chance to correct his, in their mind, his error, his bad
behavior. But also one of the things that, you know, in my mind, I want to clarify from even something we said at the beginning, they said in the interview is college should be a place that you come and you discuss ideas and ideas should be open. And as I was hearing that, I thought, well again, kind of going back to the first part of the conversation, it's okay to hear different ideas when you have a foundation of
what truth is. But when there is no foundation, when there is no center for truth, then tossing out ideas when there is no metric when there is no measuring system, that actually can be a dangerous thing. And actually, it can make sense. Why would someone be so offended that you're going to challenge their belief system? Well, when there is no truth, when there are no absolutes, when there is no fixed morals, and there are no rights and wrongs, it becomes
a very slippery slope. And so even this idea of kids going to college, which, as we pointed out many times, we're not a fan, and many regards of kids going to college anymore. We don't really encourage and endorse that anymore, until they pray about it and feel where God's leaving them. And once they know what God wants them to do, well if they need a degree for that, by all means, go get a degree. I'm not anti college, but I am anti going to college to figure out what they're going to do.
And when they don't need a degree for what God's called them to do, it's not worth going into the danger zone of that ideology. Now, with that being said, when you have someone who is so well established, that he is just teaching the basic reality of biology, as he said, for hundreds of years, this science has been known and understood. This is basic biology. And if you get offended by basic biology, it's because you have problems, not because this professor had problems.
You know, it's interesting that that irrefutable scientific evidence of X Y chromosomes is now an ethics issue. It's not a science issue. It's an ethics issue. And so suddenly, science that the irrefutable... it's like gravity becoming an ethics issue, it's like lunar orbits becoming an ethics... It's not. It's a science issue, and it's established. And it's really crazy, because I think he made the point really clear. This is not about what he did
necessarily. It is, but it's about all of those who hold the same view he holds. This is a shot fired across the bow, that says, hey, you guys that hold this view, this is putting you all on notice, shut up, zip up, say nothing about this, because we'll come after you. And, you know, the process she described, Rick, the way this thing works, is with it happening at this level, she talked about getting permission to sue, they have to get permission from the government to sue the school.
And so the process is you have to file a complaint with the EEOC. And the EEOC will look into it and give you permission to sue. And I guess that's the way they kind of limit frivolous lawsuits. It seems like a crazy, strange way to go. But they've got to get permission to sue, but they're going to get that, that's not going to be a problem at all. First, Liberty does this all the time. And this is going to be something that will result
in a real change here. And so for them to target him over something that is purely scientific, and make it ethical and then make it something for all the other professors. That's just crazy, crazy, crazy stuff. But this, as Tim said, this is where education is right now.
And unless you have to have a specific skill set, if you're just looking for a career, this is not the place to go because the craziness is too extreme and too often and too frequent right now, fortunately, First Liberty and those guys are helping beat it back. But until administrators get the message on this, this is a crazy place to send people if they don't have their roots grounded.
It's comforting, honestly, to know that we've got a lot of these legal beagles, a lot of these legal warriors that share our values that have good biblical perspective, and constitutional perspective, which is, of course, what we're looking for. And we always encourage people to donate to them, you know, go to their website, get on their email, get plugged into what they're doing.
Because even though you may not be in one of those particular battles yourself, right now, you want to support these organizations, because you want them to be fighting these battles, they still affect you, all of these types of cases are something that, you know, they're no longer just for that person in the case. I mean, it's amazing how much we've allowed this creeping of government control and over... outside of their jurisdiction and literally running people's lives and
costing them their jobs. And so it affects all of us. And these organizations are great at fighting these battles. And get on the email list to make that donation. And also do the same thing for WallBuilders. Be sure visit WallBuilders.com today, and make sure you're on our email list and making those donations. It's a way to help us amplify this voice and get this truth out there. Thanks so much for listening to the WallBuilders show.