Rick:
You find your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. Thanks for joining us today on WallBuilders. We’re taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. You can learn more at our website, wallbuilderslive.com.
I’m Rick Green, America’s Constitution coach and a former Texas legislator; here with David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders; and Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. Again, visit that website today because that’s also the place where you can make a one-time or monthly contribution. And we appreciate you coming alongside us. Getting towards the end of the year, that’s a great time to make that end of year tax deductible contribution, again, wallbuilderslive.com.
Alright, David or Tim, later in the program, First Baptist Church of Dallas, Robert Jeffress, will be with us. We’re going to be talking about 18 Minutes with Jesus. We’ve said it on the program a lot, if you want to say the country number one thing you can do and be in God’s word because you got to know truth to recognize the lie. And so spending time with the Lord, spending time in God’s word, even as we often talk about politics and political solutions, all of those things are downstream of having that relationship and having that truth in your heart and soul.
Tim:
Yeah. And one of the things that we appreciate so much about Dr. Jeffress is he is a pastor who, as he is trying to connect people with Jesus, this 18 Minutes with Jesus and I really like the idea what he explains with his book. And I’m really excited for this interview, Rick, to see where you guys go in the conversation. But one of the things I love so much about Dr. Jeffress is how he helps the Bible be so practical and faith be so relevant to daily life and modern culture, where for a lot of people, the even though he has a very big national ministry, Pathway to Victory and he’s on television every single week and he’s on a national radio program, for a lot of people they didn’t know much about him until he started back in 2015, 2016, being around President Trump.
And we actually had him on our radio program, I don’t know, a year or two, three years ago, something, talking about why, he was the very first pastor to come out endorsing Trump in that 2016 election. And we said, why did of all of the candidates, because there were so many candidates that year? And actually, what seemed like some really good candidates, why did you go for Trump? What led you to Trump? And he had this really incredible analysis of where we were in culture and how secular culture was that Trump seemed like the only guy who had the right kind of values, who was still electable based on the culture that we had. And man, I mean, he was spot on.
Rick:
Yeah, he was. And I was mad at him when he did it. I was like what are you doing, Pastor Jeffress? What are you doing?
Tim:
Well, with his incredible insight, as he has encouraged Christians to be salt and light in the world around us, to be engaged in the culture around us, he has done a things that a lot of other pastors have been nervous to do with engaging the political arena, encouraging pastors to be involved in the political arena, encourage Christians to be involved. So like even right now, as we have a runoff election coming up in Georgia, dad, I know that you have been on the road, actually, I think maybe this week you’ll be on the road, if not this next week, I don’t remember exactly what days you’re in Georgia, but you’re going to be in Georgia with Chad Connelly doing a lot of Faith Wins event. And this is obviously a big deal for what’s going to happen in the Senate.
But if we’re looking at Georgia, one of the things that we think is probably one of the big swing determining factors is if Christians actually show up, if they actually get out and get involved and vote, and this is something that before a lot of other pastors were willing to do this at the national level that Dr. Jeffress did, Dr. Jeffress led the way in challenging Christians to get involved in the process.
David:
Yeah, this is one of the things that I saw the results of Georgia after the November election, and it was really disappointing and that the most conservative and most Christian parts of Georgia had the lowest turnouts and it just wasn’t good. And then we looked across the nation and we saw that across the nation that Christians did not turnout in very high numbers overall; they were outperformed in so many areas. And I think part of this goes to really a reflection that we don’t have a good biblical understanding of the three institutions. We know that God created, and we say we acknowledge in church that God created the family and He created the church and He created the civil government. And we’ve chosen to be involved in family and church, but not civil government. Well, if He created all three, He made us stewards of all three.
And just the notion that, you know, someday we get to heaven and He says, hey, I gave you your family, what did you do with the family? And we have to account. And He say I gave you your church, what did you do in church? And we account. And He says, I gave you your country, what did you do with the country? Oh, man, that was such a waste of time. I didn’t do anything. I mean, I don’t know how we can justify not even voting in a country like this where that’s a simple way of being salt and light. And I just can’t imagine standing in front of the Master and Him saying, out of the sermon on the Mount, He said, look, if you’re not salt and light, you’re good for nothing except to be thrown underfoot and trodden down.
I can’t imagine standing in front of God and have Him say, hey, you were really good for nothing. You know, civil government, you didn’t do nothing. That’s not a good day in the final judgment. And so I’m perplexed as to why so many Christians did not show up, did not vote, did not do anything. Now, a lot of them did. And I’m not saying all Christians did. There’s no question a ton did. We had a lot of Christian candidates running. But the overall votes were really disappointing from the Christian and conservative communities.
Tim:
And to be fair, we we did see good Christian turnout in some areas. Obviously, we know in a midterm election that you expect there to be a drop off. It’s just sad that there was a significant drop off with some of the Christian identified votes. That’s where you would hope that Christians would get the vision that our job isn’t to be engaged every four years, is to be engaged every time we have an opportunity to make a difference.
Now, with that being said, we can leave the elections for a minute and go back to the fact that as as you’re looking at what even Dr. Jeffress is is going to get into today with his book, 18 Minutes with Jesus, it’s really fascinating that even just just thought of the encouragement that we need to get back and really steady and know what Jesus taught, know what the Bible says. And if we do that, it would challenge us to want to be more engaged in our culture. So the very message that we’ve been talking about for a while, consistent as we’ve said with, I mean, Rick, as you open, right, the most important thing is Jesus and that connection, that relationship. This is a very consistent message and theme.
I’m excited to see what Dr. Jeffress unfolds and talks about for this new book. I’m excited to get into this new book and see some of the commentary. Now I’m not commenting a lot on right now. I don’t want to give away maybe what he’s going to talk about some, guessing what that might be. Nonetheless, I’m excited for this interview.
Rick:
Pastor Robert Jeffress, our guest today. Stay with us, folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders.
AMERICAN HISTORY
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. The Second Amendment to the Constitution, which guarantees to every individual the right to keep and bear arms has been targeted for years now by those who are determined to dismantle the individual right to self-protection. Opponents argue that only the militia, the military and law enforcement are to have and use firearms. But those who wrote the Second Amendment strenuously disagreed, including Founding Father Richard Henry Lee, a signer of the Declaration, a president of the Continental Congress, and one of those who actually framed the Second Amendment. He declared, “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young how to use them.” For more information about Richard Henry Lee and the history of the Second Amendment, go to wallbuilders.com.
Rick:
Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Always good to have Pastor Robert Jeffers with us. Pastor, it’s good to have you back, brother.
Robert:
Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.
Rick:
Well, excited about your new book, 18 Minutes with Jesus. And of course, great title and begs the question, where’d you come up with the title? What does that mean, 18 Minutes with Jesus?
Robert:
Well, Rick, let me assure your listeners, I have not had a near-death experience, gone to heaven and ate soup with Jesus for 18 minutes. That’s not what this book is. I had this idea. You know, I’m sure your audience is familiar with the TED talks that are so popular right now. You know, a TED talk is supposed to be a brief talk on a subject of interest given by an expert. But the key is it can’t be longer than 18 minutes. And I had this thought one day, what if Jesus were to come back to Earth and give a TED talk, what did he say? And then it hit me, we already have Jesus Ted talk, it’s called the Sermon on the Mount. You can read the Sermon on the Mount in 18 minutes or less. And yet, even though it’s brief, it contains topics of interest to us, from the saviour, straight talk about your money, your sex life, your prayer life, your eternal destiny. And so that’s what this book, 18 Minutes with Jesus is: it’s a fresh look at the Ten Commandments and how it applies to today.
Rick:
Oh, that’s so good. That now it makes sense. That makes perfect sense. So it’s a TED talk with Jesus. This is good. Okay. So what would you say, since we don’t have a full 18 minutes, what would you pick as, I don’t know if you could even pick like what’s most important out of it, because it’s all so good, I guess maybe what’s most timely for this moment in history, in this moment, in our culture?
Robert:
Well, I’m sure you’re talking a lot about the election right now. And the question is, if Jesus were here today, would he encourage Christians to vote? Would he identify with any political party or any cause? And although I think Jesus would be fiercely independent. It’s very clear that he would encourage his followers to get involved in the election process. How do I know that? Because some of the most important words he said in Matthew 5 in the sermon was regarding what a Christian’s purpose in this world is. He said, you are the salt of the earth; you are the light of the world.
You know, in Jesus day, salt was a preservative. It couldn’t prevent the decay of meat, but it delayed the decay of meat. It gave the meat a longer shelf life before it finally rotted away and had to be thrown out. And Jesus is saying, Rick, that one reason he’s left us here instead of taking us to heaven right now is to be that preserving influence, to slow down the decay, the rot of this culture so that we have a little longer to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with as many people as possible; is a chance for Christians to push back against evil. It’s not a question of Republican or Democrat. It’s a question of light and darkness, the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan.
Rick:
You just said so many things that are so good. But one of them actually, as always, every time I talk to you, there’s an epiphany moment for me and you just gave me one. Because I’m always saying, the salt is there to preserve the meat, to bring out the best flavor in the meat and we have to be that. But I’ve never thought about the fact that the meat’s going to decay no matter how much salt you put in it. I’ve never said it like that, that that’s how God designed this world, that’s what’s going to happen. But this slows it down.
Robert:
And, you know, if people have a problem with that, I mean, just think about Jonah, God said that he was going to destroy the wicked city of Nineveh, but He delayed his decision because of the preaching of Jonah, and He ended up eventually destroying the Nineveh, but He gave Nineveh longer and it worked. I think the mandate for Christians is not so much to save America, it’s to save Americans from the coming judgment of God by introducing them to faith in Jesus Christ. And that’s why Christians need to get involved in politics and the culture.
You know, salt is of no use to me that can’t preserve the meat as long as it’s in the salt shaker. It needs to get out of the salt shaker, it needs to penetrate the meat. And that’s what I love about WallBuilders, you’re encouraging people to penetrate the culture and make a difference.
Rick:
That’s good. Get that salt out of the shaker. Get shaky, people. Alright. Well, let me ask you, this is somewhat off subject, but you got me thinking about this. Is it okay, is it biblically sound when I say to people you’re doing this so that your children can live in freedom, is that too much of a selfish motive or is that sort of like an inheritance for your children and children’s children? Does that make sense?
Robert:
I don’t think it is. I said, in 1 Timothy 2, Paul said, we ought to pray for kings and all those in authority that we might lead quiet and tranquil lives in all godliness and dignity. In other words, he was saying, pray for the governing authorities, that they would just leave us alone and allow us to practice our faith. So I think, freedom ultimately is not the freedom to do what we want to do, but to do what God has commanded us to do. And we have every right to and work towards freedom.
Rick:
Amen. Okay. Let me ask you about kind of practical right now with this 18 Minutes with Jesus. When you get this TED talk with Jesus, you’re really getting some of the best life skills for how to live a joyful life because you’re getting it from the Creator, the Manufacturer. What would be a couple of bullet points out of the Sermon on the Mount that you would say to people, hey, if you’ll follow these, the benefit right now in avoiding pain and enjoying a life is tremendous.
Robert:
Well, the theme of 18 Minutes with Jesus is those who follow the teachings of Jesus can have an unshakable joy in this life and unending happiness in the next life. You know, there’s no guarantee that you’re going to be exempt from problems. In fact, Jesus said the very opposite. He said, in this world you’re going to have tribulation, but be a good cheer for I’ve overcome the world. And I grew up in a tradition that said, Rick, the Sermon on the Mount has no application for today. It doesn’t work to turn the other cheek. It doesn’t work to pray for your enemies. But it does work. It’s the best way to live right now. And that’s why I wrote this book, 18 Minutes with Jesus.
The Sermon on the Mount is not for the hereafter, it’s for the here and now. And when you talk about how to deal with your enemies, when you talk about how to look at money and not building your hope and riches, as we watch our riches being frittered away through inflation, through a plummeting stock market, I mean, these words are relevant for right now.
Rick:
Amen. Amen. Real world results and real world application right now, such a good way to put it. What do you hope people as they read this at a time where they’re troubled? I mean, let’s be honest, people, they know the culture is crumbling around us. There’s all kinds of problems in the world, so they’re concerned. And so at a time where they need joy and they need comfort and they need hope, what are the things you hope they take away from this 18 Minutes with Jesus?
Robert: Well, I hope they’ll have a realistic view of the world. You know, just imagine this for a moment. Just imagine that you’re having a hard time financially, making it day to day and providing for your family and then you hear that your uncle has left you in his will for $10 million. And the even better news is he’s 99 years old. I mean, that fact may not change your day to day existence; you may have a struggle, but you know something better is coming and coming soon. And I think that’s what the Sermon on the Mount reminds us. It reminds us that, yes, you’ve got difficulty in this world, but there’s a better world that’s coming and stay faithful to Christ in anticipation of that coming world. That’s really what the message of 18 Minutes with Jesus is all about.
Rick:
Amen. Alright, pastor, before we let you go, best place for folks to listen to your programing and get the books and just learn more about your ministry. In addition to partnering a very large church in Dallas, Texas, man, you’re reaching out to people all over the world, how can they follow you? Robert:
Well, our ministry is Pathway to Victory, it’s PTV.org. All the messages are free, and you can get the book 18 Minutes with Jesus along with a study guide that makes it great for group use as well. It’s available in all Hobby Lobby stores in America and always at Amazon.com.
Rick:
Wonderful, wonderful. We’ll always appreciate having you on, sir. Thank you so much. We look forward to getting you back soon.
Robert:
Thanks for having me, Rick.
Rick:
Stay with us, folks, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
THE AMERICAN STORY
Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called The American Story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today.
And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil, and everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things, like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out the statement Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.
Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America not as the story of a perfect nation of a perfect people. But the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out, wallbuilders.com, The American Story.
Rick:
We’re back here on WallBuilders. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to pastor Robert Jeffress for joining us today and we’ll have links to his new book at our website, wallbuilderslive.Com. Back with David and Tim. And guys, of course, as we said, the emphasis in building that relationship, being in God’s word, that’s then going to make us better citizens to do all the other things that we talk about here on the program.
Tim:
It really does. And I love the fact that he starts off, hey, guys, you know, I didn’t die and go to heaven for 18 minutes or that wasn’t the vision. But even the connection with I never really thought about a TED Talk being 18 minutes because I’ve seen some TED talks that definitely move past 18 minutes, but to be able to be succinct enough, to have a powerful message that is concise and profound, and you can deliver it in a short amount of time and I’ve never thought about being able to go to the Sermon on the Mount and 18 minutes because every time I read the Sermon on the Mount, it goes way longer because I always have to slow down to start thinking about, okay, now what does that mean? And how do I apply that? Because it is the most relevant sermon that we will ever read or maybe ever even hear. I’m excited to get into this book and see maybe some of the commentary and directive he can give unfolding the Sermon on the Mount.
And again, kind of back to the initial points that we talked about leading into the interview, Rick, as you’ve just mentioned, now, coming out of the interview is the better we understand the Bible, the better we will understand our calling of how God wants us to be salt and light influences in the world around us, to reach our friends, our family, for Jesus, to help make disciples of nations, but even to get involved in education or business, to get involved in government, etc. The Sermon on the Mount really has some profound messages that if we would spend more time there could really make a difference, certainly in our daily lives, but in our families, in our marriages, absolutely in our nation.
David:
You know, there were a couple of thoughts that hit me in what he was saying with the Sermon on the Mount, and with that, if you remember Bonhoeffer back in German days, Bonhoeffer, a big part of his ministry dealt with Sermon on the Mount. And it was interesting at the time he was standing up against Hitler and Gestapo and others, they were trying to water down the gospel and rewrite it the way they wanted. And by the way, I did not realize that the church in Germany, the official church in Germany, the Lutheran Church, they actually removed the Old Testament out of the Bible. In the official German church, you couldn’t have the Old Testament because that was written by a bunch of Jews. And I didn’t realize they had gone that far in cutting that part of the Bible out. And Bonhoeffer said, nope, we believe in the whole Bible. We believe in the Old Testament and New Testament.
And so his movement became what they called the Confessing Church. The Confessing Church is we confess all of the Bible, we profess all the Bible. And it’s interesting that he’s going through all that, the Gestapo came after seminary and this is in 1937 before the war even started. They came after the seminary. They closed it down. They arrested 27 of his pastors and former students, all these guys that are protesting what the Nazis are doing with the Bible. And it was at that time that Bonhoeffer published a book called The Cost of Discipleship. And the Cost of Discipleship, it was an attack on what he called cheap grace and said, listen, grace is costly. There’s no cheap grace. You don’t get a bunch of grace to do all the stuff. There’s a cost for grace.
And his book, called The Cost of Discipleship, was just the Sermon on the Mount. And that’s what he went through. And that was the core of what Bonhoeffer focused on was Sermon on the Mount, which I thought interesting that here Pastor Jeffress is focusing on Sermon on the Mount. And the other thing that struck me with the Sermon on the Mount was it’s three chapters long; it’s Matthew 5, 6 and 7, is where you find the Sermon on the Mount. And I was reminded, I want to go back to a few months ago when we were doing all these meetings all over the country, getting ready for elections and getting Christians to try to turn out. I was in Illinois and was the pastor in Illinois, and he took me into his study and he had just walls of books, just really cool looking library.
And he went over and pulled off one book and said, hey, have you seen this? And he gave it to me. It was a book from 1888, and that book in 1888 was actually published in Australia and it was about the Bible in schools. And that Australian book went through all the laws in America and Bible school, state by state by state, and he said, look how America teaches the Bible schools, look what they’ve got here. And all the different states, and had the court decisions, all the states upholding the Bible schools, and it was basically saying, hey, Australia, why don’t we do what America does? Why don’t we read the Bible in schools every day? Why don’t we study the Bible in schools? And that got me thinking about some other things, the Bible schools, because we’re so used to what happened after 1962-63 with the Bible out of schools that we’ve got to 2-3 generations now who have no clue that the Bible was the center of American education for well over three centuries. We’ve gone through these last 60 years with no Bible, and we think that’s the way it’s always been and it’s just not. And so that 1888 book was a real good refresher for me.
But then I was looking at some other state laws. You go to the state laws, for example, as I was looking at a State Board of Education really result, I guess you would call them, State Board of Education is saying, here’s what our state schools did this year. There was an 1816 report from New Jersey. And in New Jersey, it talked about how that and the state schools and the public schools in New Jersey and the first and second grade, all the kids memorized the gospel of John. Now, that’s a bunch of chapters. That’s an entire book, the Gospel John. And this is first and second grade. They did point out that one of the kids, this first and second grade, not only memorized the gospel of John, he also memorized 30 extra Psalms, including Psalm 119, which is the longest Psalm in the Bible. So this is first and second grade material that they’re doing in New Jersey in 1816. And so here this guy was saying, hey, we need to get Bible back in schools, memorize God’s word.
And as I was listening to Pastor Jeffress, I thought, you know what, this is something that every one of us should take on. We should all say, you know what, I’m going to memorize three chapters of the Bible. I’m going to memorize Matthew 5, 6 and 7. I’m going to memorize the Sermon on the Mount, because that is a TED talk over Jesus’s ministry. That’s the heart, the soul, the guts of what Jesus was teaching, it’s those three chapters. And if you say that’s hard, you say, well, it may be hard, but I can do more than a first grader did in New Jersey in 1860. You know, just encourage yourself that this is not nearly as much as they memorized, but that would be a challenge. Let’s all take on memorizing the Sermon on the Mount. That’s not a hard deal. It may take us weeks, but it’s worth doing it.
Tim:
Now, to say that’s not a hard deal, I think that’s a hard deal.
David:
It’s a hard psychological deal. Once you get past it and start into it, it’s going to be easier than you think.
Tim:
Well, no, it’s doable. And one of the things we’ve talked about, obviously, the brain and memories of muscle and you have to work and develop it. And so the first time someone goes to a gym or the first time someone goes to a track and you have people out there who are running miles or running marathons and you’ve never ran anything and you’re like, okay, no, this is not easy. Well, it’s not. And it does take time. You have to build and develop those muscles. You have to train those muscles. But those are muscles that can be trained. And this is certainly a worthy cause to work and train and develop those muscles.
Dad, one of the things I thought about, too, you know, when Jesus told the disciples in Matthew 28, that all authority and heaven earth has been given to them, he says, therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, teaching them everything I have commanded you; well, one of the best summations of the everything he’s commanded was in the Sermon on the Mount. Now certainly, there’s a lot more in the scriptures, there’s a lot more in the gospels, there’s a whole lot even in the gospel of John that’s not in the Sermon on the Mount. But one of the best synopsis of everything he’s commanded is in the Sermon on the Mount.
And we talk about how so often we make that disconnect of helping someone meet Jesus, to helping someone become a disciple, a follower of Jesus, living like Jesus, doing what Jesus taught, where Jesus said that if you love me, keep my commands or obey my commands. And this was part of the measurement of love. This is what Jesus said. This is how I know if you love me or not, as if you obey my commands. You can’t obey the commands you don’t know.
This again, is why it’s so important to go spend time reading and studying the Sermon on the Mount so that we know how to teach people what Jesus taught. What were the premise, the basic ideas of his teachings? Go read the Sermon on the Mount. Study the Sermon on the Mount. And dad, as you’re mentioning even more than just reading and studying, take time to start memorizing it. Memorizing, even if you just pick a couple verses here and there along the way. If we took 18 minutes a day, and if for one month we read the Sermon on the Mount every single day, you’d be pretty close to having maybe not memorized, but having really good retention, gaining a lot of what’s there.
And as I mentioned, I think if you start reading that, you’re going to spend a lot more than 18 minutes because God’s going to start showing you stuff in there and you want to slow down and think about it and see how it applies. But the Sermon on the Mount certainly is something we’d recommend, as well as maybe 18 Minutes with Jesus.
Rick:
Good stuff, guys, is a great take home lesson and homework assignment for everybody that’s a listener out there. Also, be sure and visit our website today at wallbuilderslive.Com. Thanks so much today for listening to WallBuilders.