¶ Parenting and Discipline
Hey everybody , it's Tony and welcome back to the Walk Family Podcast . I am bringing you a series titled Seasons of Despair , which focuses on different experiences of life , such as marriage , raising kids and loss of loved ones , and how people navigate those hardships .
Laura and I bring to the table conversations from our own home , as well as introduce some guests sharing their stories . Everybody goes through trials and tribulations in life . Sometimes it feels we can't ever escape the pain that that brings . James 1 , 2 , and 3 says Consider it pure joy .
My brothers and sisters , whenever you face trials of many kinds , this is easier said than done . Despair , by definition , is the loss or absence of hope . As a believer in Jesus , there is always that eternal hope we have , but sometimes we don't always feel like it exists .
It's an incredibly challenging thing when we feel despair in this life , when we think there is no hope and all we experience is hurt and pain . My hope and my prayer is that this series will show that you are not alone in your moments of despair .
I don't feel like that would be a natural human response , though , for him to just be fine . I mean , parents love their children and when you love your child , you mourn when your child is hurt or alone or especially if they die . Those are huge things in the life of a parent , so I would think that eli probably was .
it was very sad about his choices and about his son's choices , and yeah , I agree , and so like my point and kind of like the question that revolves around it is how do you navigate something like that ?
How do you , when your child that you care about , that you've invested in , turns away from the Lord or you know , god forbid like you lose a child , how do you get yourself out of that ?
Obviously , yes , there's mourning , there's grieving but there's a level of hopelessness there that makes you feel really , really bad . Hello , hello . Thanks for joining us on today's episode . We're talking about despair and parenting , and we're glad that you could join us .
And raising kids . Yes , I was talking to like you and me and we're raising kids , yeah , yeah , so anyway , we have three kids . They're bundles of joy . Just out of curiosity , what's like the hardest moment in raising kids that you can remember ?
that's a killer way to open .
We're jumping right in diving deep , okay how about the fact that we went for a walk , we went hiking on a trail today ?
We did .
It was really nice to be out today and cold , yeah , it was cold , but we connected with some friends and we hadn't done that in a while and I think in previous episodes Tony and I have talked about the importance of community and we've just really been missing out on that , and so it was nice to have some buddies and to get outside and our kids were
entertained by their kids and that was really nice too .
Yeah , having three kids walk about a mile and a half in a trail when it's 30 degrees out . I think the kids did pretty good and the oldest one fell down and unfortunately had a little bit of drama . She thought her leg was broken .
She always has a little bit of drama . So it's okay .
But without further ado , we're going to dive into today's topic and there's a couple of verses that I want to talk to you about and then we're just going to , Tony and I are just going to kind of have a conversation about it and we're hoping that our conversation builds you up and encourages you while we're hashing through these verses , and I just hope that
you take something away from it that can point you to the Lord and give you strength for moments when you feel discouraged in parenting . So the first one is Proverbs 22 , 6 . It says train up a child in the way he should go , Even when he is old , he will not depart from it .
My thought on this one is what happens when you're training your child and they are choosing not to obey the things that you've taught them ? What do you do ?
Yeah , that's tough , especially depending on how old they are , choosing not to obey the things that you've taught them . What do you do ? Yeah , that's tough , especially depending on how old they are .
I think when the kids are younger , like you have a little bit more control over like how not necessarily how they react or how they behave , but how to help them navigate it Whereas once they're older , like an adult , and choosing to essentially not follow the Lord .
Absolutely . For conversation's sake , let's say this is like an 18 and younger these are kids that live in your house , or maybe even 16 and younger . These are kids that live in your house and you are in charge of disciplining them and teaching them , training them , and they're not obeying . What sort of things would you do ?
Yeah , I mean , like I was saying it's , I think it really does come down to the age right . When our youngest , who is a toddler , disobeys and throws a tantrum , that's going to be very different than how you handle , you know , a 13 year old .
Yeah , I think . Well , let's just talk through our different ages . So we have an eight year old , and when she doesn't disobey , her consequences look a lot different than a two year old .
She usually shall have to go to her room or she'll miss out on an event that we're going to do , because she's very much a people person , so she can't go to a friend's house or go for a walk with everybody . She has to stay home with one of the parents . Either Tony or I have to stay home with her and she misses out .
And then our middle daughter is very much a gift oriented little girl , which is funny because I don't think it was always like that .
I think it used to be more physical touch , which is not something you withhold from a child , but now I feel like it's shifting to gifts , where she's maybe not responding to discipline or not responding to what we've taught her to do , and if we say , okay , I'm going to take your toy until tomorrow , that's really serious in her world .
And then our youngest is just a spitfire . I don't know how many of you guys have three kids , but number three is the third . Yeah , number three is a game changer for us . Everything we thought we knew about parenting is kind of getting flipped upside down .
Well , that happened with every single one .
Yeah , it's just been .
We had , yeah , we had our first and then we sort of got a handle on it . It's like , yeah , we got this and then we had a second and it was a train wreck , and then we figured it out , and then we have a third , and two and a half years in of having three . I still don't know what I'm doing .
We have a third and two and a half years in of having three . I still don't know what I'm doing . Yeah , I can't figure her out yet . She is very independent and strong-willed and I think that as she grows it's going to be really tricky to just kind of steer her .
I think she's going to be one that we have to let make her own mistakes , and some of them will be in our control and some of them will be out of our control because of the nature of the beast .
But to answer the question , like , depending on your kid and depending on the age of the kid , it's going to vary on how you discipline them . Absolutely Like discipline . We had talked in earlier episodes about discipline being kind of a negative term in society , but it's really not . You're steering the term .
Discipline focuses on steering them in the right direction , specifically steering them towards the Lord , and discipline out of negative emotions is where the harm really comes from . Disciplining out of anger , discipline out of fear or out of frustration that's where I think the harm comes from and the lack of discipline .
If you're completely apathetic towards your kids and just let them do whatever they want whenever they want , you're going to have serious issues .
Yes , it will backfire . Maybe that will be the easier way out when they're younger , but as they age , they won't respect you and you won't be an authoritarian figure in their life . In the Bible , hebrews 12 talks a lot about discipline and how God disciplines us .
But because he loves us and because we're his children and that's what we're supposed to do as parents is discipline our children because we're training them and teaching them , and it's not to harm them , it's to teach them right from wrong and it's a way that we show that we care about them , because we're molding them into these people that are suddenly going to
be adults in the real world .
I talked to a bunch of different people that have kids . I mean , you obviously were friends with several of them , um , but it it does amaze me at how well put together some families are that have a lot of kids , like like seven kids .
Yeah , very structured , very structured . Always behaved it's like what are you doing ?
It's like magic .
Yeah .
Like how in the world do you navigate ? You know an age , you know there's like a 20 year age range between their oldest and youngest and they're and you just have like every single one of them like highly respected kids , not saying that they're perfect , but you can definitely tell that there's some intentionality there .
Yeah , that was exactly the word I was going to use that the parents are definitely being intentional in attention and affection , but also in discipline .
But to kind of like pivot towards the core of the episode and the series is focusing on despair . So when you think about being in a spot , being in despair , it's a sense of hopelessness .
How do you , how , how do we , navigate hopelessness when raising kids , especially if your kids are just running around crazy little monsters or they're a little bit older and have no respect for you and they just are completely rebellious and they're not following the Lord , and then , even as they enter into adulthood , they just completely step away from the church
and don't care . They're just living life for themselves . That can show , or at least that can create , a sense of hopelessness or despair for your kids . And so , yeah , I think one of the things I just wanted to do is talk about , like how you can , how we can navigate that .
Absolutely . Those are very different conversations . So I think if we just narrow it down first to talk about what do you do when you're in a season of hopelessness , when your kids are little because that's a lot different than my kids are 20 and not walking with the Lord , those I feel like handling those will be two different things .
When they're little , I think one of the things that you can do is just take a break , that you need to be surrounded by community or your spouse and you need to take turns and give yourself a moment of rest away from your kids . That way you can be refreshed with the Lord , maybe dive into your word , maybe into God's word .
Do some journaling , spend some time praying . If you like baths , take a bath , go for a walk outside , get some fresh air , just be away from your kids , just enough to be refreshed before you dive back
¶ Navigating Despair in Parenthood
in .
What do you think causes despair when raising young kids ? What causes people to get to such a low , hopeless point when you have young kids ?
I think there's a level of being overwhelmed when . When you're busy , then it's easy to be overwhelmed .
In our home I definitely lean on the minimalist side and so when our home feels overwhelmed by clutter and by stuff , christmas is always a really hard time in our house for me , because I always feel so overwhelmed by stuff and I don't want to sound ungrateful it just gets overwhelming and so's . I don't want to sound ungrateful , I'm just .
It just gets overwhelming and so that things can be overwhelming and then little people just needing you all the time , and the voices never stop . Mom , mom , mom . You know it's hard if you're not getting out of the house and if you're not taking care of yourself to just rest and recover .
It's hard to be turned on all the time to the needs of others when you have needs that are going unmet .
I think that stems a lot from the mom's perspective , right ? The kids are just constantly like mom , I need you , I need you , I need you , I need you , and I'm sitting right there and they just completely ignore who I am .
Although I'm not sure you hear them . Anyways , it's a two way street .
I'm not going to say that I don't ignore them , but but I also , like I understand that moms carry a huge burden in the sense that they are typically a caregiver and they are just being poured out tremendously .
Typically a caregiver , and they are just being poured out tremendously , whereas dads , like , typically they're the adventurous , the fun type , you know the , the comic relief , but dads can fall into depression and despair as well , but it's just a very , it looks very different do .
What do you feel like has been a season when you have experienced that I I think with our second , with our second one . After she was born .
Yeah , it was just a nightmare .
Yeah , her first year of life she cried and cried so much and I remember we would take her to the doctor and nothing would be wrong . She just would cry . And I think they thought I was crazy and we probably should have gotten a second opinion or tried a chiropractor or something . But it was a rough . Her first year of life was really rough .
Yeah , that newborn stage for anybody is just really difficult . There's not many people that I know of that say , yeah , the newborn stage is wonderful , it's the best stage . I'm like I don't believe you , even if you were to say that .
Honestly , though , this last baby was our last , and I think I treasured those moments a lot more than I did the first two times . The first time , I had no idea what I was doing . And , honestly , I wasn't ready to be a mom yet , and so everything was scary and new and dealing with my own emotions about having a baby .
And then , with number two , she just cried , and so I cried . But number three was just a very different experience , because she was going to be our last , and so the moments didn't feel so awful . Even though I was tired and you're drained from getting up all night and being needed all day , there was still a sweetness to it .
Yeah , I was very much like push on the accelerator and let's get to H2 .
Like just get through it , Although two's been a tear or two , so here we are .
Yes , two has been rough . Yeah , our third is definitely the most aggressive and intense . I think that's the best way to describe it .
She has a big personality , for sure .
Yes , very much so , and very driven and determined , and it's her way , or the highway , and she won't let up .
So what do you feel like is a way that you , as a dad , can combat despair ? Or well , that's one question . And then number two what is a way that you feel like you can assist when I'm struggling with despair ?
I think assisting you is a lot easier in my mind than trying to wrestle through depression or despair because of kids .
Like when you're struggling , I can be , you know , mr Fix-It , and just say hey , you know , you should do this , you should do this , you know , go for a walk , take a bath , get out of the house , you know , go get a shake or go shopping , I don't care Something . Where it's like oh yeah , I can do all of this problem solving that will help you .
I think do all of this problem solving that will help you . I think that's much easier . And even if it comes down to like most of it comes down to time and energy , like if I were to just take the kids for a drive for 30 minutes , that's enough to kind of give you time and space to just recalibrate and re-energize .
When I'm struggling with it , it's very different , because I get in this mopey , hopeless state where I don't really want any help .
I just have this really bad emotion that just kind of makes me , you know , like a slug and I can't get out of it and I don't really have a desire to get out of it and or at least I don't want to work for it , and so I don't really know how to navigate that per se , other than the fact that I've experienced it and it's ugly , and so sometimes I
mean dads specifically typically don't like to ask for help , they like to be the one that has the solutions they like to fix things . I'm not talking like appliances . I'm talking about broken relationships or if there's some sort of discord in the home dad's typically go . Their go-to is okay .
Yeah , I want to find a solution , but something happens when it's yourself , when you're struggling with something internally , it's very difficult to navigate . So sometimes I think you have to have a spouse that is willing to pull it out of you , and sometimes that doesn't happen overnight . Be a process .
I know that's you do yeah , most often when I see that Tony has hit his limit , then usually it's like okay , you need to take a nap . You need to go for a run , have something to eat .
I feel like we're talking about Elijah when he's feeling depressed after Mount Carmel and this super low time and he has a nap , nap and he eats and then he has a new mission . It's the same thing .
Okay , you need to rest because you can't pull it together right now , and you need to eat some good food and feed your soul and just spend some time with the Lord , because that's the only thing that's going to make you feel better right now is God .
It's interesting you think about . You think about that story in scripture where Elijah is in a sense depressed , you could even say despair , but I don't think Elijah had any kids , but there was a prophet well before him but way before his time , eli , who did have kids , who did have kids .
And if you guys remember the story , eli is punished by God for the lack of raising his two sons to know the Lord , because his two sons , who are also , um , or they , priests or prophets , Do you remember ?
I don't know .
Off the top of my head is one or the other . They might've been priests , like Levitical priests , I don't know for sure . Off the top of my head it was one or the other . They might have been priests , like Levitical priests , I don't know for sure . They pretty much went in the opposite direction .
But they have like this , in a sense , this level of authority and you're supposed to lead people to God as a priest and they didn't . And all of a sudden , god punishes Eli by basically , I mean straight up , kills them , takes their lives away , and so like thinking about despair in the sense of loss .
You know , there are , there are parents out there who are doing everything that they can to help their kid or to get their kid to be successful or to know the Lord , and they just completely turn away . But there's also parents who might be following the Lord themselves but aren't necessarily being intentional with teaching who the Lord is with their kids .
And I'm not saying that punishment , I'm not saying that God's going to punish you for doing that . I am saying I wonder what emotions Eli felt after God took his sons away . Was there a level of sadness ? Was there a level of despair and depression ?
Or was Eli , perfectly fine , it's like , yep , this is what God did , and I trust God no matter what , and so he just moved on .
¶ Navigating Hopelessness and Despair in Parenthood
I don't feel like that would be a natural human response , though , for him to just be fine . I mean , parents love their children and when you love your child , you mourn when your child is hurt or alone or especially if they die . Those are huge things in the life of a parent .
So I would think that Eli probably was very sad about his choices and about his son's choices .
Yeah , I agree , and so my point and kind of the question that revolves around it , is how do you navigate something like ?
that .
How do you , when your child that you care about , that you've invested in , turns away from the Lord or you know , God forbid , like you , lose a child ? How do you get yourself out of that ? Obviously , yes , there's mourning , there's grieving , but there's a level of hopelessness there that makes you feel really , really bad , makes you feel really , really bad .
In both situations . I think the blaring answer is to turn to the Lord . You need to just be in His Word . You need to be praying and crying out to Him , because at that point , if your children aren't walking with the Lord , then only God can change their heart . At that point you can pray over them and you can have gospel conversations with them .
But they have to make their own decision to walk with them . You can't with the Lord . You can't make them choose God . That has to be their choice . But you can live an example and have conversations , but you have to take it to God to change their heart . And if you lose a child , then there's nothing you can do at that point .
That's that God has to heal your heart and only he can fill that void .
Let's talk about Jesus for a second . Do you think Jesus ever felt despair ?
Oh yeah , I think Jesus felt all the emotions that humans feel . That's how it was in Matthew 16 , I think , where it talks about that we can relate to him because he felt all things . So I think , is that it Matthew 16 ? I'm going to have to look it up later , sorry gang .
Nevertheless , there's a verse that talks about Jesus experiencing all the things that we feel . That's how we know we can go to him because he's felt all those things and he understands us in a way that sometimes we don't even understand ourselves .
We have a hard time dealing with our own emotions , but Jesus knows yeah , I was thinking about the garden of Gethsemane and Jesus is praying to God , because despair right Means like hopelessness . You think about who Jesus is and it's like well he is truly the only reason we have hope , but despair is the absence of that .
And so thinking about , well , if Jesus knew what his sacrifice on the cross was going to do like there's still a level of hope , and if he foreknew that did he still experience hopelessness ?
And the only thing I can think about that he would the only way , I guess I , I should say the only time in scripture that I think he would experience that would be in the garden when he's praying to god and he's sweating blood . Well , he knew his time to die was approaching and it was approaching quickly . But what was ? If he was truly in despair ?
What was he in despair about ?
I think that he knew what he needed to do and what was about to happen , but that doesn't make it any easier .
No .
You know this is not on the same level , but you know you need to give a spanking for X and X situation . But it doesn't make it any easier . You still feel sad and you still wish your child had chosen not to do that so that they wouldn't have the consequence . And Jesus's wasn't a consequence , his was a sacrifice .
So it's different there , but I think there's still a level of sadness .
Because when you think about hopelessness like what was , what was Jesus talking about in the garden ? He was praying to God and he was asking if there was any other way .
Not my will , but your will be done is what he says , and I think if there was any moment of despair that Jesus felt , it would be in that moment , because I think he realized that his father's will is going to happen , even though he knew what that meant . There is no other way for him to get out of crucifixion .
There is no other way for him to spend more time on earth with , you know , the disciples , or you know preaching his gospel , like it had to happen this way . And so I just wonder , like , did he feel despair in that moment because he knew God was not God , the Father was not going to change his mind Like Jesus is going to be crucified ?
I think I think full and well Jesus knew that . But it's just interesting to think about Jesus with all of the names , right , you know , prince of Peace , everlasting Father . Like he could feel all of these dark emotions , especially a dark emotion like despair .
But he felt all these things that didn't sin .
Yeah , feeling despair isn't necessarily sinful .
No , I don't think it's a sinful emotion . It's a real human emotion . I think it's what you choose to do with it that matters . What would you say are a couple of things that you would suggest parents who are experiencing despair do to help get through that season .
I think prayer I mean you have to pray Yet in the word yes , but I think prayer is even more important . And I say that because I look at prayer and reading scripture as complementary . Not one is better than the other , but I think there are different moments in life where you need one more than the other .
And I think in that moment , when you're feeling despair , I think prayer , talking , crying out , lamenting towards God is more important than necessarily reading scripture . Yes , I think there is a level of you need the promises of God that are found in scripture to lift you up , but I think communing with God through prayer might be more important .
The only reason I'd say that is from Jesus's example in the garden . If he was truly feeling despair , what did he do ? He was crying out to God and not in just like a you know , a very typical pleasantry way , like he was well , he was pouring his very being out to God to say hey , is there any other way ?
Out to God to say hey , is there any other way ? And ultimately , like we know what happens . But I think that I think that is the key to help getting out . It's like God can handle all of that , but we as parents have to do that as well to get out of this rut , this funk that we're in . Thank you so much for tuning in to the Walk Family podcast .
Today , if you haven't realized already , laura and I are switching the format of our show . The primary difference is that we have changed our releases to fit more of a serial format , which means we will be sending out episodes throughout each week for a season . Then , once the next season begins , another series will come out .
Each series will contain around 10 to 12 episodes , give or take .
¶ Connecting With Seasons of Despair
For the winter season of 2025, . Seasons of Despair is our series . We still release an episode on Tuesdays , but you may see another episode pop up later in the same week as well . Also , be sure to hit the little bell to subscribe . It gives you each episode instantly once it's published .
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