The Evolutionary Superpower of Highly Sensitive People: How HSP Differs from Autism (and Does it Matter?)

Music. Hey, everybody, welcome to a Virtual Couch Network Presents episode. So today we are going to explore the world of the highly sensitive person, or am I talking about somebody who's on the autism spectrum?

Spoiler alert, I'm not, but thanks to a video that, for lack of a better word, went viral a couple of weeks ago, it's clear that there are a lot of people who identified with and felt seen by and understood by the information that they learned about highly sensitive people. And this was just in the span of a one-minute reel. We're talking over 2.2 million views of The Real on Instagram and 1.8 million views of The Real on TikTok and 529 views of the exact same video on YouTube Shorts.

But I'm not bitter about that. Maybe that's an episode for another day. But back to the story.

So for those who really enjoy data or behind the scenes stuff, this is for you. Because I personally love when podcasters or back in my day, when people on the radio share the insider info of how many listeners or how many viewers, or when they would just share anything that I had no idea about that was going on behind the scenes.

On TikTok, at the time of this recording, which is early morning, Monday, February 10th, this particular reel on highly sensitive people has 1,758,447 views with 182,000 likes and 1,352 comments, 20,000 shares and 38,000 bookmarks. And on Instagram, this reel on highly sensitive people at the time of the recording had 2,182,337 views. And it also had 129,131 likes, 41,401 saves, and 40,616 shares.

And I honest to goodness thank every single one of you who watched and liked and saved or shared it. And it also has 708 comments. While the majority are from people that do feel

seen and understood, a number of them simply just say things like. What you're talking about is autism. Let's just move on. Or when are people going to recognize that this is just presenting autism? And as I was literally going to record, and I wanted to gather the latest stats for what I just shared with you, there was even a comment from somebody who was saying that apparently I have a problem with ADHD and autism, which is, well, it's adorable.

Because, and I know that most people who are finding me from the real haven't listened to the 600 plus podcasts, or maybe the hundreds of hours of live content to know that I am a card carrying, riddle in taking. ADHD is my superpower. Diagnosed late in life. Thank goodness. Can I get a hallelujah and an amen?

And when I had autism expert Jodi Carlton on my Waking Up the Narcissism podcast not too long ago to talk about the similarities in autism and narcissism and how they present in relationships, she mentioned that some consider ADHD to be on the autism spectrum. And I said right in that moment that if that is the case, sign me up, because why on earth would I want anything other than as much information as I can gather to help me understand myself better?

Because this is most likely the first and only time that I'm inhabiting space on this amazing, wonderful planet we call Earth, and I want to learn it all. I want to experience it all.

And speaking of experiences, hopefully this is the only time that you can see this, but if you tune into the YouTube channel or hopefully watch some clips from this episode, you will see a butterfly bandage that is holding my upper right cheek together thanks to a run-in unfortunately literally with a wall in a darkened movie theater yesterday i had my bell rung much to the laughter and enjoyment of my wife and daughter mackie who watched the

whole thing it was all funny it was fun and laughs until wendy then asked me what's on your cheek and uh i did in a movie theater a classic movie line or a classic movie move where i reached up and all of a sudden my hand was covered in a lot of blood, but don't worry. I stayed. I was very brave. I watched the entire movie and I was still able to enjoy an insane amount of movie theater popcorn. But back to my point.

So to those people who engaged in what I would call drive-by commenting, I did adopt a bit of a copy and paste response, which is what led to today's episode. I would highly encourage you to listen until the end because I have more data and examples than I ever would have imagined to share with you today. You'll definitely understand more than you ever could have dreamed about highly

sensitive people, HSP, and people who have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum or ASD, autism spectrum disorder. And then we'll have a guest appearance by our good friend NPD, as in narcissistic personality disorder. But here's what I wrote to those who quickly dismissed those who were clearly feeling seen. I said, it's just far too easy for somebody to simply say HSP and ASD are one in the same. So here's what I'll share to every comment that says they are.

I appreciate you taking the time to watch this reel and comment. I have an episode coming out later this week, which is today. There are so many differences, but many people who perhaps aren't highly sensitive or HSP can easily put them in the same bucket and then move on. And it's definitely easier to do that than to try and understand the differences, to lean into what someone doesn't know that they don't know. So stay tuned.

We'll find out that there are overlapping traits, and that's wonderful. None of the content that I create is ever meant to be from a place of judgment, but more from a place of awareness. I'm a huge, huge fan of learning what we don't know that we didn't even know because that's the way we grow.

And one of the strongest signs of emotional immaturity is isolating, turning more inward and just living in this confirmation biased, I know everything bubble that then is just easily able to dismiss people who have different viewpoints than them. But we're the only versions of us walking around the face of the earth, you, me, even the people that are doing the drive-by comments. And so they know what it feels like to be them.

So it takes a lot of work to step outside of your own ego, your own sense of self, and truly try to understand what someone else's experience is. And when you can at least give that a good attempt, often you will learn something about that person and you might even learn something about yourself as well. So with that said, let's get to today's show. And actually, of course, before we do that, please follow me on Instagram at virtual.couch, tiktok at virtual couch, all one word.

And even if half of the 2 million of you who watch the reel on Instagram could just go click a little subscribe button, give me some love on YouTube. Links will be in the show notes. That would be mighty appreciated. And then make sure to look for the live question and answers typically on Sunday evenings on Instagram and TikTok. We did one last night with my daughter, Mackie. My daughter, Sydney was behind the scenes and definitely commenting as well and moderating the comments.

We had so many questions, so many comments on both Instagram and TikTok, but we spent a lot of time in the world of emotional immaturity. We did touch on some HSP content as well, but emotional immaturity in relationships, there is so much to be learned there. The replay of that live last night will be on YouTube in the next couple of days. So look for that. And you can also send me your questions ahead of time via the contact form on my website at TonyOverbay.com.

While you're there, I signed up for the newsletter. Okay, let's do this. So it's story time. And there's a lot of data that you can mine from this story.

And it's based loosely on a real story that was brought into my office. So if you can picture this, let's say it's a Wednesday afternoon and it's a busy marketing agency and you've got Sarah and Michael, they're standing in the break room. They're having what started out is what looked like a very quick conversation about an upcoming project. Now, Sarah has been diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder, or ASD, and she's very aware of it, but other than listening to a podcast or

two on occasion, she doesn't necessarily do a lot of work on herself about her autism. No judgment. Facts, as the kids say. Now, on that note, the prevalence of ASD has changed dramatically over the past couple of decades. According to the CDC data, what was once identified in about 1 in 150 children in the year 2000 has steadily increased to about 1 in 36 people today.

And that significant shift isn't necessarily just because more people are developing autism, but it's more about the move to a broader diagnostic criteria, better recognition of symptoms, and an increased awareness of it, that people are willing to talk about their own mental health challenges. And then also it comes with an increased access to diagnostic services, especially for groups that were maybe historically overlooked, like girls and adults.

So on this particular afternoon, she was excited to share her insights about the research that she had been doing now. Let's talk about Michael. Michael identifies as a highly sensitive person, or HSP, which turns out to be way more common than most people think. Back in the 1990s, Elaine Aron and some additional researchers first started looking into this trait seriously and found something very fascinating, that about 15% to 20% of people are just wired to experience the world more intensely.

And what's fascinating is that it's not just in humans. Scientists have spotted the same trait in all sorts of species, from dogs to fish, birds. I even read, I think, fruit flies, which that would be adorable to just have the most sensitive little fruit fly hanging around. So what this suggests is it's actually a natural and a valuable variation that's been preserved throughout evolution. So being highly sensitive isn't a disorder or something that needs fixing.

It just means that Michael's brain processes things more deeply, feeling both the good and the challenging stuff more intensely than others might. It's kind of like he's got a more finely tuned antenna for picking up on everything from physical sensations to just emotional undercurrents in the room or vibes or energy.

And on this particular afternoon with Sarah, Michael's overly aware of both the ticking clock, the subtle shifts in energy around the two of them, as well as others who are walking by their facial expressions, wondering what they might be thinking. At one point, he sees one coworker look at Sarah and then look over at Michael and then look over at the office gossip, Jane. And Michael immediately makes a mental note.

Okay, Jane, no doubt is going to be starting rumors that Sarah has a thing for Michael. And Michael also knows that there's a staff meeting coming up in just a little bit. And he's aware that his boss typically engages in what he calls MBWA, or management by walking around prior to a big meeting.

And actually, if Michael is being completely honest, which here's the part based on a true story, he knows that his boss is actually doing said MBWA, management by walking around, on his way to take a BM prior to the meeting. And if the boss sees them, he knows that the boss will assume that Michael's wasting time because Michael still finds himself reeling from an unflattering review that he and his marketing team had from that very boss years ago during a particularly bad time in the economy.

And all of this is while Sarah continues to talk at Michael while they're in the break room. So the conversation has been going on for 15 minutes, which is about 14 minutes longer than Michael would like. When Michael notices another colleague, Elena, glancing at her watch as she walks past. So again, Michael can sense the afternoon meetings are about to begin. He starts to feel this building tension in the office as others are hurrying to wrap up their lunch breaks.

And then Michael shifts his weight slightly, kind of takes a small step back and gently says. I should probably let you get back to work. And it's in this moment that two very different experiences are unfolding. Michael can feel the slight strain in his voice as he tries to end the conversation politely. And he notices how Sarah is still leaning forward slightly, and her enthusiasm is unchanged. And he can sense that she has not picked up on his cues.

His heightened sensitivity allows him to feel the mild anxiety that's building in him and in the situation in general, as he realizes this exit from talking to Sarah is probably not going to be as smooth as he had hoped. Now, Sarah, she's deeply engaged and still explaining her research findings. And she processes Michael's words at face value. So remember, Michael said, oh, I probably ought to let you get back to work.

So Sarah hears that and then says, oh, I don't actually need to get back to work right now because Sarah's team is not part of this meeting. So she is happy to stay engaged and continue to talk about this project. And then continuing on her train of thought, Sarah said, you know, I haven't even told you about the coolest part of this whole thing. This data that I found that was completely by surprise. And she's genuinely enjoying sharing her insights. She's no reason to stop.

After all, Michael didn't say he needed to leave. He just said that he thought she might need to get back to work. So more minutes tick by, and Michael becomes increasingly aware of the growing disconnect. And he notices the tension in his shoulders, and he picks up on the quickening footsteps in the hallway. And he can sense the slight edge of frustration in his own breathing.

Meanwhile, Sarah continues sharing her thoughts, completely missing all of these subtle signs of Michael's discomfort, his slight step backward, his crossed arms, his shorter responses, his looking away from her. As a matter of fact, Michael notices that he's almost moved back entirely against the break room counter, and Sarah has matched him step for step, becoming closer and closer as they talk, making things even more awkward for him.

So this single interaction, I think, perfectly illustrates how different social cues are experienced and processed by people with autism, ASD, versus highly sensitive people, HSP. And while both Sarah and Michael are intelligent, caring individuals, they're essentially speaking different social languages. Michael is reading a complex web of nonverbal cues like a finely tuned instrument, while Sarah is focusing on the literal meaning of the words that they're exchanging.

And it's a seemingly simple interaction, an attempt to end a conversation, that demonstrates why it's, I think, crucial to understand these differences. And if you are a HSP, to accept them. And then once you accept them, what do you do with them? And if you're someone who has ASD, then are you aware of these things?

And I'll talk more about this later because I've worked with a number of people who have been the Sarahs who have come in and said, okay, there are things that I must not know that I don't know. And it's not about one being right and one being wrong. It's about recognizing that our brains can process social information in fundamentally different ways. That's absolutely okay.

What I didn't mention, and maybe this is just simply so I can also run this one on my Waking Up the Narcissism podcast, of course. Actually, as I introduced this emotionally immature and narcissistic character that is very real, it's actually because so many people in relationships with narcissistic or emotionally immature people are the highly sensitive people. And I'm sure we'll talk about that later in this episode as well.

So what I did not share is that right in the middle of this delicate social dance between Sarah and Michael, their self-appointed top sales guy, David, sweeps into the break room with his signature, I am the most important person here, energy. He's carrying his perpetually empty coffee mug, the one that says world's best dad, which is written in gold letters, which he basically made his wife buy for him.

And without missing a beat, he inserts himself into their conversation by loudly declaring, oh, disgusting work, are you? Reminds me of how I single-handedly saved that Johnson account back in 2019, right before the pandemic, basically saved the company. Did I ever tell you guys about that? And actually, Sarah, your research approach reminds me of myself when I was starting out, though, of course, by the time that I was your age, I was already managing three departments.

And he proceeds to then lean against the counter in what he clearly believes is a very, very charismatic pose, waiting for the validation, for people to just swoon over everything that he's talking about. But he's completely oblivious to the fact that Michael was desperately trying to escape Sarah and get to his meeting. And Sarah was in the middle of explaining her actual literal research findings. But David continues, gesturing dramatically with his coffee mug.

You know, I was just talking to Steve. Dramatic pause. You guys know Steve, right? Okay, forgive my rudeness, Steve Thompson, founder, CEO of the company. I think you guys call him Mr. Thompson. I mean, Steve and I are on a very first name basis, but naturally, I was telling him that my leadership style really, I think is what is driving the innovation here. And he agreed.

In fact, just this morning, I was thinking about your guys' little project while doing my morning meditation in my reserved parking spot. So ironically, the introduction of David adds a completely different type of misreading of all social cues in his very own unique way. Not because he's highly sensitive or autistic, but simply because he's so self-absorbed that he can't notice or care about them. And that is the siren song of the emotionally immature or the person on the narcissistic spectrum.

But his presence creates a perfect storm of social complexity. You've got Michael, the HSP, now picking up on everybody's discomfort, feels trapped. Sarah, with autism, is trying to process why did the conversation suddenly shift to David's achievements? Because I was still in the middle of something. And David remains blissfully unaware of anything beyond his own internal monologue. Let's now transition over into what is HSP? What is ASD?

And how are they different? How are they similar? And what's the challenge when they are interacting with people who don't understand what either of them are?

So let me start by just clearing up a very fundamental misconception that I think has been floating around, especially in the social media comments again on these posts, that while HSP and ASD might look similar on the surface, particularly when it comes to how people process sensory information, they're actually quite distinct from each other. And again, that comes with no judgment. And there will be people, because both are a spectrum, that have some crossover.

But you can kind of think of it like this, that just because two people might react strongly to bright lights or loud noises doesn't mean they're experiencing the same underlying condition. So if we go back to the beginning of HSP, Dr. Elaine Aron, who first began researching high sensitivity back in 1991, or the fancier name, sensory processing sensitivity, discovered something so fascinating that she found that being highly sensitive isn't a disorder at all.

And that's because it's a natural trait that shows up in about 15 to 20% of the population. And what's so fascinating, as I mentioned earlier, this trait appears in over 100 different species throughout nature. So this widespread presence suggests that being highly sensitive actually serves a very important evolutionary purpose.

So for those who identify as highly sensitive, and this was definitely a theme in the comments of the videos, it may not actually feel like much of an advantage at times when you are completely overwhelmed. Especially when you feel stuck, when you feel so overwhelmed and you can't escape to maybe a dark room or somewhere where you can calm your central nervous system. So I just want to spend a few minutes talking about the evolutionary purpose of HSP.

Because I think that this might give you, the HSP, the highly sensitive person, an understanding that your highly sensitive traits, the way that you feel and feel big and sense things that others may not, it truly can be a gift.

So when we say that a trait serves an evolutionary purpose, what we mean is it provides some survival advantage to help their ancestors thrive and pass on their genes. Because if it wasn't something that was beneficial, then it would not have continued to be part of the evolutionary process. So if you look at the case of high sensitivity, I think that having some members of the population who are more attuned to subtle changes in the environment can benefit the entire group.

Because you can think of it like having natural scouts or early warning systems within a population of people. HSPs tend to notice subtle changes. We're talking shifts in weather patterns, potential dangers, or social dynamics before others do. This hypervigilance when you see someone walk in the room and you can sense that that person maybe is having a problem with one of the other people in the room.

Because in ancient times, this heightened awareness could help communities prepare for threats or opportunities that others might have missed until it was too late. So for example, an HSP might notice subtle changes in animal behavior suggesting an approaching storm, or they might pick up on tension in a neighboring group before it erupts into conflict. And this deeper processing of environmental cues could give their group time to prepare or adapt, increasing everybody's chances of survival.

So the fact that we see this trade across species is what reinforces this theory that it is there for a reason. Consider wolves. Researchers have found that within wolf packs, some members show higher sensitivity to environmental changes. And these more sensitive wolves might be the first to notice approaching danger or identify new hunting opportunities. And they also might be the ones that don't enjoy ghost stories by the fire at night. But regardless, it's a trait that is there for survival.

Eventually, those highly sensitive people become the shaman, the medicine people, the people that are the matchmakers where there are arranged marriages. It is a gift when it is nurtured. I go back to the numbers. Interestingly, the percentage of HSPs in populations, 15 to 20%, if you're looking at it from an evolutionary biological perspective, seems to be optimal. Because if everybody was highly sensitive, then a group might be too cautious and miss out on opportunities.

If no one were sensitive, the group might miss important warning signs and be wiped out and cease to exist. And this balance suggests what evolutionary biologists call differential susceptibility, different traits within a population that work together for the group's overall success. There will be people that will be more bold. There will be people that will be stronger, that will be able to endure, be able to run faster.

There will be people that will have a keen brain for engineering and being able to create things. And there will be those that are highly sensitive that will be able to bring different things to the table within the group or the community.

So let me give you some examples of traits or characteristics of the highly sensitive person. And for you non-HSPs, please hang tight because we're about to talk about what happens when you enter the picture. And I think it's so helpful as well to try and just step out of your own ego, non-HSPs, and think about the people in your life. If there are people that you have viewed as sensitive, people that you've told, don't worry about it, knock it off.

It's not a big deal because I think this will speak more to what their experience is. So I went through Elaine Aron's self-test for HSPs, which you can find on hsperson.com. And I looked at all the questions and I was able to come up with five key indicators to watch for when you're trying to see if you are a highly sensitive person. So for somebody that is wondering if they might be highly sensitive, I recommend going and taking Elaine Aron's HSP test online.

But this will just give you a better idea because you might just want to reflect on these key indicators. Do you need more time than others to process experiences and to make decisions. Are you particularly aware of subtle changes in your environment? Do you feel emotions, both your own and others, more intensely than most people around you seem to? And do you find yourself easily overwhelmed by sensory input?

And it could be lights, it could be sounds, it could be textures, it could be anything that involves that sensory input. And do you have a rich inner life and you tend to think deeply about things? So let me walk you through how each one of these key indicators of high sensitivity might show up in everyday life. So that first one, needing more time to process experiences and make decisions.

So imagine you're at a restaurant with friends, and while others can quickly scan the menu and decide, you find yourself just carefully considering each option over and over, thinking about your past experiences with similar dishes, contemplating how hungry you are, weighing a variety of factors like texture, flavor combinations, and your friends most likely tease you about being indecisive. But you're actually engaging in deeper processing.

This same pattern might appear when shopping for major purchases where you research extensively and you consider multiple angles before making a choice, or maybe in meetings at work where you prefer to think through your response before speaking rather than immediately jumping into discussions. And as a card-carrying member again of the ADHD fan club, I know I tend to be more impulsive because in my mind, I can make a decision and then there are plenty of decisions to be made afterward.

Now, I do like to do a fair amount of research, but sometimes that is just this desire for certainty that I have. But ultimately, I would consider myself far more impulsive than somebody who is highly sensitive. So let's talk about that second key indicator, awareness of subtle environmental changes. You most likely are the first person to notice when somebody has rearranged the furniture slightly or changed their hairstyle.

I think about this so often of where I would get that wrong if I would come home and my wife would maybe say, notice anything different? And I am. I'm looking around the room. I'm looking at her. And at work, you might pick up on subtle tension between co-workers before conflicts become obvious to other people. You might also notice small changes in your partner's behavior that signal that they're stressed even before they realize it themselves.

Think of somebody who immediately notices when the heating system kicks on in a building or who can tell that it's about to rain because they notice subtle changes in air pressure or again, even animal behavior. The third indicator, feeling emotions more intensely. This is the one that I realized the more I learned about highly sensitive people, that I know that while I know how I feel about things, I'm very certain that I don't feel as deeply as my wife or a couple of my daughters.

So feeling emotions more intensely. This might manifest as crying easily during movies that others find only mildly touching or feeling physically drained after spending time with somebody who's going through a difficult period. And you might find yourself deeply affected by news stories that others just scroll past or you might need time to decompress after emotional conversations.

At work, if you receive criticism, even if it's constructive, it might require some private time to process before you can respond effectively. And you might also find yourself feeling genuinely elated by very small positive experiences that other people barely notice, like a beautiful sunset or a kind gesture from a stranger. I think of how many times that my wife would look out the window and say, look at that sunset, and I did.

Okay, now let's move on, right? and not being able to really just sit and appreciate that and understand what that must feel like for her versus me. Here's the interesting one, the fourth one, easily overwhelmed by sensory input. So in very practical terms, I think this might look like needing to leave a grocery store sooner than others because the fluorescent lights are just too bright or the background music is just driving you crazy.

Announcements, multiple conversations become overwhelming. You might have strong preferences about clothing textures, removing tags or avoiding certain fabrics entirely. And in open office spaces, you might struggle to concentrate because you're aware of every conversation and keyboard click and movement around you. And you might also find that you need to retreat to a quiet space after social gatherings that others might find energizing.

One more, having a rich and inner life and thinking deeply. This often shows up as the person who just ponders the deeper meaning behind everyday situations. For instance, a casual comment from a friend might lead you down a path of reflecting on the nature of the friendship itself. And you might find yourself lying awake at night thinking about conversations from earlier in the day and analyzing them from multiple angles.

I know in talking to a lot of highly sensitive people, they don't want to say the wrong thing and they want somebody to truly understand them. So often they will try to explain things from every single vantage point, every angle. And the person that they're speaking with most likely has already said, no, I understand. I get it. But to the highly sensitive person, they're still just so worried about being

misunderstood or misrepresented. Okay. At work, you might excel at projects that are requiring deep analysis, but struggle with rapid fire brainstorming sessions because you prefer to think things through and take your time before you make these big decisions. And you might also find yourself drawn at times to complex books or films or music that others find too heavy because you naturally seek depth in your experiences. But again, it can come with being overwhelmed.

So the key thing, though, is to understand that these traits often interact with each other. For example, your deep processing and emotional sensitivity might combine to make you especially thoughtful in your relationships, while your environmental awareness and sensory sensitivity might make you particularly skilled at creating comfortable, harmonious spaces, wanting your home to be this oasis.

And these aren't weaknesses to overcome, but they're aspects of your personality that can be both challenging and advantageous depending on the situation and how you learn to work with them. Because if you're a highly sensitive person and you're in a relationship with someone, let's say who has some real fun ADHD, then you might be in a world where you want more of the normal, and that person might live a little bit more in the world of chaos.

So now, let's get back to where those characteristics can serve a purpose, and let's bring the non-HSPs back into the mix, and then we'll move into the world of autism.

Back to how these indicators or these traits play out in modern contexts, these same characteristics, they continue to serve very valuable purposes because HSPs often excel at noticing subtle patterns in complex systems or anticipating potential problems before they develop, understanding the deeper emotional needs of others, or contributing really unique perspectives in problem-solving situations, and then bringing depth and nuance to very creative endeavors.

So when you look back through this evolutionary lens, I think it helps us understand why high sensitivity isn't a disorder or a weakness, but it's a pretty vital variation in the whole human experience that has helped our species survive and thrive throughout history.

But this dynamic between HSPs, and we'll just call them the non-HSPs, is a perfect example of what psychologists call an invisible disability. It's a phenomenon. But I think in this case, we're talking about more of a trait rather than a disability. Let me explain why this can create a very challenging situation, is a nice way to put it. Because when someone isn't highly sensitive, they experience the world through their own neurological settings.

So their brain processes sensory and emotional information at what we might call, let's just say a standard level of intensity. We won't say normal. But for them, this is their normal. It's their only frame of reference. It's like somebody who's never worn glasses, trying to understand what does it look like to not have glasses. And as somebody who didn't need glasses till I was in my late 40s, I can feel this because I remember continually asking my wife,

what does it look like? What do you see? And never really understanding what that would be like because I didn't know what it was like to need glasses. So going back to that, think about that. If you are someone who doesn't wear glasses, trying to understand what that would look like, you can imagine it might be blurry. But I will tell you as someone now who, when I take my glasses off, things are, they're continually blurry.

It really is trying to understand what the world looks like to somebody who needs them, who needs the glasses. And I think this creates a fundamental disconnected understanding. So when an HSP expresses concern about something that seems minor to a non-HSP, the non-HSP makes what psychologists call a false consensus assumption because they believe that everybody processes experiences the same way that they do.

So when they say things like, you're overreacting, or it's not that big of a deal, they genuinely believe that they're being helpful, operating from their own experiential framework. I know I've been guilty of that. Where you want to tell your family, hey guys, don't worry about this. Calm down. It's not a big deal. I literally just told them all their feelings are wrong. And I think the tragedy in this dynamic lies in its self-reinforcing nature, because here's how it typically plays out.

The HSP experiences something intense, whether it's emotional tension in a room, overwhelming sensory input, or maybe a deep concern about just even a very subtle problem that they've noticed. They try to express it to the non-HSP, often the person that they're in a relationship with, and they're already feeling vulnerable because they've learned through experience that typically others don't always understand, or even want to take the time to try and understand.

Then the non-HSP processing the same situation with far less intensity will dismiss or maybe minimize the HSP's experience with phrases like, well, you just need to toughen up or you're being too sensitive or calm down or don't worry about it or don't think that way. Then the HSP, who by nature processes emotions deeply, they absorb this dismissal.

And I think it can be really difficult because they internalize or they metabolize not just the immediate rejection, but this deeper implication about their way of being in the world. So then to protect themselves emotionally, the HSP begins to withdraw. And over time, they share less and they start to make themselves small. And they often doubt their own perceptions.

And then the non-HSP sees this withdrawal as improvement, confirmation that their approach worked, that it does work when I tell everybody, Don't worry about it or calm down because I'm not hearing about it as much. When in reality, they just witnessed somebody building emotional walls, watching their partner build the walls for self-protection. And this cycle creates this emotional invalidation, which can have long-lasting effects on HSPs and in the relationship.

Because then the HSP often develops a form of this learned helplessness about sharing their experiences. And that can start to lead to isolation, self-doubt, a loss of self. So the cruel irony here is that the very depth of emotional processing that makes HSPs valuable in evolutionary terms, it becomes a source of vulnerability in these interactions. So the solution, though, is not for HSPs to toughen up, or even for non-HSPs to walk on eggshells.

Instead, it requires understanding and validating different ways of experiencing the world. Just as we wouldn't tell somebody wearing glasses that they're trying too hard to see clearly, we shouldn't dismiss an HSP's naturally more intense processing of their environment. And I think this is why, hopefully episodes like today or reels that people can identify with, maybe for the first time, this is why education about high sensitivity I think is so crucial.

Because it helps both HSPs and hopefully you non-HSPs, including myself, understand that there isn't just one right way to experience the world. Different neurological templates create different equally valid ways of processing reality.

And I think it is so important to realize that no matter how certain you might think you are about what somebody else is thinking or feeling or why they're doing what they're doing, you cannot truly understand exactly what somebody else is going through ever, which is why it's so important to be curious. Write, write, be curious on your bathroom mirror, plaster it all over your wall, your desk, write it every day on your palm.

Shout out to my old friend, Bruce Felt, who used to write down things literally on his palm when I was using a device at the time. If any of you remember these called a palm pilot. Maybe we need to get back to that type of high tech, writing it down on our palm. But it's okay not to know how somebody else feels or what they're thinking. We resist curiosity so often because I think we want the validation of somebody

potentially saying, oh my gosh, you were right. I did need to just toughen up or I didn't even think about calming down. So thank you. You said words that do in fact make me feel so good. But another big reason that we like to tell people how they are feeling or what they are thinking is because if we need to ask them and they're thinking and feeling things that we didn't know, A, we often revert back to our emotionally immature, all or nothing, black or white thinking.

That if that person now is thinking something that I didn't realize they were thinking, then I must be wrong and then they are right. And now all of a sudden, we've got this black or white, all or nothing thinking. Please scrub that from your mind right now. We're not talking about right and wrong. We're talking about two people's sharing of their experiences that are unique to them because they are the only version of them that have ever walked the face of the earth.

Each one of us is an amazing combination of our nature and our nurture,

our birth order, our DNA, our abandonment, our rejection, our hopes, our fears, our dreams. And so even when you look at twin studies and the same twins, the same people, these genetic similarities in their DNA witness the same thing, their output is different. So of course, our output is going to be different. There are so many variables to people. There are people in the world who love sardines. There are people who think that black licorice tastes good.

There are people who don't like pineapple on their pizza.

Let me just give you some facts that I think might blow your mind. Because people are so different. There are people in the world who love sardines. There are people who think that black licorice tastes good. There are people who don't like pineapple on their pizza. There are people who like blue cheese crumbles. There are people who enjoy swallowing oysters or eating snails or pate. There are people who enjoy haunted houses or who don't enjoy speaking to crowds or who don't like running.

And so there you go. I think maybe you know me better now than ever before. But we are all unique in so many ways. So, of course, you aren't going to know exactly what somebody is thinking or feeling. So, ask them. And you're not wrong if you thought something else. And number two. If we have to ask somebody how they are feeling about something, we might find out that we could have even played a role in their discomfort or their dissatisfaction or their disappointment.

And guess what? That too is absolutely okay because go back to point A, everybody is different and are allowed to think and feel differently.

So for all you non-HSPs, and I consider myself somewhere on the spectrum of some increased sensitivity, but I know for a fact I'm not as highly sensitive as my wife or a couple of my daughters in particular. I've been married now for 34 years and I have to watch Animal Planet on my own. It's like I'm watching a dirty movie or like I'm exploring the dark corners of the internet when I get in my office and I pull up Earth at Night in Color on Apple TV.

And you're welcome after you go check that out. What an incredible show. They use these phenomenal cameras to make night on the African tundra look like it is the middle of the day. And I want to show that. I show it to my two daughters, so I think they're more highly sensitive. And I'm showing them. and all of a sudden some cheetah takes down a wildebeest or something and we're turning the channel. And then it will be another 10 to 20 years before I will attempt that again.

Neither of us are wrong. And it doesn't mean that somebody doesn't care about you if they don't want to watch what you want to watch or if they don't want to see beneath your band-aid at how you cut your cheek in half running into a wall at a movie theater. Although she kind of did enjoy seeing that.

But when we talk about highly sensitive people, we're describing be individuals whose brains process information more deeply than others, and it's a gift to have a more sophisticated internal processing system. These people notice subtleties that others might not, and this can lead to feeling overwhelmed. But that's because an HSP literally is taking in more information from their environment than the average person.

And before we move on to ASD, or Autism Spectrum Disorder, I think there's also a crucial point that I didn't understand for a long time. Dr. Aaron emphasizes the trait isn't a new discovery, it's just that it's been misunderstood for a long time. So, people often confuse highly sensitive people with being shy or with being introverted. But here's the part I never really understood, is about 30% of highly sensitive people are actually extroverts.

The key difference is that as an HSP, they might put themselves out there, but even as they are extrovert, they still are observing and processing before acting. Again, regardless of whether they're introverted or extroverted.

So now, And thanks for sticking with me. Let's explore autism spectrum disorder. And then we'll break down the key differences between these two very distinct ways of experiencing the world. Because I think when we can truly understand the differences, then we can better support and appreciate and love our HSPs and our individuals with ASD for exactly who they are. And a lot of you might learn something new about yourself. I am not an expert in autism spectrum disorder. So...

Much of this information was gathered from the internet using as many evidence-based resources as I can. And also anecdotal data, because I've been a therapist now for over 20 years, and I have worked with very high functioning people with autism who come to my office saying, this is what I have. I don't know what I don't know and help me show up differently.

Autism spectrum disorder or ASD is a neurodevelopmental condition that affects how a person perceives and interacts with the world around them. And as I discussed in the opening today, the CDC data shows that about one in 36 people are diagnosed with ASD today, which is a significant increase from previous decades due to better recognition and then understanding of the condition.

And the word spectrum, which is most often used in ASD, I think is crucial because it acknowledges that autism presents differently in each person. You can think of it like a mixing board in a recording studio where each person has these different settings for various characteristics. So some individuals might have more intense sensory experiences, while others might face greater challenges with social communication and social interaction.

So here's where things get really interesting and where some of the confusion between HSP and ASD arises. That both groups might appear to react strongly to sensory input, but the underlying mechanisms are quite different because in HSP, the brain is taking in and deeply processing all the information, including social and emotional cues, like having a very sophisticated filter that catches and then just analyzes everything.

And in contrast, individuals with ASD often, again, we're leaving this open to the spectrum of their experiences, but often experience sensory input differently, not necessarily more deeply, but in a way that can be more difficult to integrate. So it's less about deep processing and maybe more about how the brain organizes and makes sense of the information that it receives. And then this can lead to sensory overload, but through a whole different mechanism than what HSPs experience.

And another key difference lies in social interaction, because HSPs are often very highly attuned to others' emotional states, sometimes to an overwhelming degree. They might pick up on subtle mood changes in a room and process them deeply. People with ASD, on the other hand, might find it challenging to interpret social cues or understand unspoken social rules, not because they're not processing deeply, but because their brains are wired to perceive social information very differently.

So you can think of it this way, that an HSP might walk into a room and immediately sense tension between two people, feeling overwhelmed by the emotional atmosphere. A person with ASD might walk into that same room and feel overwhelmed by the fluorescent lights, the texture of their clothing, or if there's loud music and a lot of people talking, or the challenge of navigating the social expectations of the situation.

And I have a couple of guests coming on that I'll run this episode later this week. Who are talking about a program that they are involved in that helps young adults with autism. And they address this very specific part of ASD, where they talk about, here's the way that you can interact. And they teach those skills. And I think this distinction is crucial because it affects how we can best support each other.

HSPs often benefit from the validation of their deep processing and their emotional experiences, along with learning strategies to manage overwhelming input while preserving their very valuable sensitivity. Or people with ASD might benefit more from support that can help them navigate sensory challenges and social situations in ways that work for their unique neurotype.

And it's also fair to say that understanding these differences, it doesn't help us to know everything, but it helps us move away from the one-size-fits-all approach. Because when you recognize that HSP and ASD are distinct ways of experiencing the world, I think that you can better appreciate and support the very unique strengths and challenges of both groups. And I think that leads to a more effective strategy for helping people thrive in their own individual unique way.

So let me go through a lot of examples. Most of them are based off of real life experiences, which is one of the reasons it took me so long to put this episode together because I reached out to a lot of my clients that I've worked with in the past and current, whether they are high functioning autistic, whether they are on the ASD spectrum or our HSP, or if they have family members and loved ones that are.

So let's talk about nature of sensitivity. For the HSP, primarily it's emotional and sensory sensitivity with greater self-awareness. So they're more likely to notice subtle changes in the environment and emotional states. An HSP might feel overwhelmed at a concert, but they can regulate their response by taking breaks or they can use coping strategies. Someone with ASD may experience both over and under stimulation to sensory input.

So their responses can be more intense and also less predictable. So the example there might be an autistic person might find certain textures completely intolerable or they might seek out intense sensory experiences. So let me just play out some scenarios. So scenario one, we're in a crowded shopping mall. The HSP's response, they initially notice the increasing tension in their body as they become aware of all the sensory inputs going on, but they can typically identify specific triggers.

Maybe it's the perfume from the cosmetic store, overlapping conversations, bright fluorescent lights, the squeaking of shoes on the floor. And they might say to their companion, starting to feel a little bit overwhelmed. Can we find a quieter area or maybe just take a short break at a cafe? And they can usually continue shopping after taking a brief break and using coping strategies like deep breathing, coming back to the present moment.

But they remain aware of their environment, but they can manage it with conscious effort. In that same crowded shopping mall, the ASD response might be different. It might look something like this, where they might experience a sudden and intense sensory overload without that gradual awareness. They might find it difficult to identify which specific sensory input is causing distress, but there are just far too many things happening.

And they could have a more immediate, and I think that's one of the keys, and a more intense reaction like needing to leave immediately are sometimes becoming nonverbal, which I've watched that happen in my office. And they might need to immediately and completely remove themselves from the environment to regulate. And one of the key differences here as well is that someone with ASD may use

stimming behaviors. I've seen this again in my office with adults, like rocking or hand flapping, trying to coat. So if we're summarizing the key difference, HSPs typically maintain awareness and they can articulate their experience while they're managing it. While those with ASD might experience more sudden and overwhelming reactions that require a complete removal from the situation, and you may see more stimming behaviors.

And let me talk about stimming for a couple of minutes, because this is something that I have done my best to learn a lot about over the years. Because you'll see some overlap here with people like myself who literally need a fidget cube or I will pick down every single part of my cuticles.

Right now I have a constant callus on my right index finger that I can pick at, or I can be so annoying clicking a pin or have a wonderful client who likes to bring me hot chocolate and it comes with a plastic stir stick and I will have a field day biting it, bending it, flicking it. That's what it can look like in the ADHD world.

So I kind of went on a tangent that I didn't mean to at that point, But let's get back to ASD stimming, and then I'll probably go back to the ADHD fidgeting, which is also known as doing cool things, and there's nothing wrong with that. Right, guys? Stimming, also known as self-stimulatory behavior, refers to repetitive movements or sounds that people with ASD use to regulate their sensory input and emotions.

And it's a natural coping mechanism that can help with things like emotional regulation, sensory processing, concentration, anxiety management, self-expression, comfort, self-soothing, and common types of stimming. And I've seen every one of these that I'm about to mention. In my office, hand flapping, rocking back and forth, literally getting up and spinning, pacing, finger flicking, tapping objects, rubbing or touching specific textures over and over again.

Or there's verbal and auditory stimming behaviors, humming, repeating words or phrases, making specific sounds, or echolalia, which is repeating other people's words. That's a big one. That was one of those when I was looking at the crossover between ASD and narcissistic traits and tendencies with couples where you often see, let's say a wife says that you've really hurt me the way that you've shown up. And she's never used those words before, but she's been working on that with her therapist.

And then her immature, narcissistic, or ASD husband says those exact same words. Well, you also hurt me. That's exactly how I feel like because you haven't been showing up. So this repeating others' words. There can also be visual, staring at spinning objects, watching lights flicker, looking at objects from different angles, tracking moving objects.

So while stimming is most commonly associated with autism, most commonly, not an all or nothing statement, neurotypical people also stim, like tapping a pin or fidgeting. But the key difference is that autistic stimming tends to be more frequent, it tends to be more noticeable, and more essential for their regulation.

And it's less influenced by social norms. When I see one of my clients in particular who does the hand flapping, they're not worried about what that looks like, even if they're out in public. It just has to happen. but I'm not carrying my fidget cube around with me and busting it out in the middle of a shopping mall. Although I wouldn't mind doing that. It's just kind of bulky and awkward in my pocket.

But I think importantly, stimming is usually harmless and it shouldn't be discouraged unless it's causing harm to the person or other people because it's a vital self-regulation tool for many people that have ASD. But let me just do a real quick similarities. ASD stimming and ADHD fidgeting. This is fascinating to me. The key similarities that both serve self-regulatory functions. Both help with focus and concentration.

Both can be unconscious and automatic, and both may increase during stress or excitement. Now, the key difference is purpose, because the ASD version of stimming primarily focuses on sensory regulation and emotional processing. ADHD stimming typically helps with attention focus and an excess amount of energy. It helps you release that, and it really does.

So then how is it presented? ASD, more varied, more complex movements and sounds, rocking, flapping, complex finger movements, ADHD, usually simpler movements, tapping, tapping your foot incessantly, bouncing, basic object manipulation. And then I go back to social awareness. In the world of ASD, less influenced by social context may continue regardless of whatever setting, wherever you're at, you may still have to feel this need to stim.

But for people with ADHD, more socially modulated. And so it can often switch to less noticeable forms. Some of the tools used, ASD may prefer specific textures, sounds, movements without tools. ADHD often uses purpose-made fidget tools, spinners, stress balls. Putty. I've had them all. And then the intensity, ASD can be more intense and essential for functioning. ADHD generally is more subtle and supplementary to other coping strategies.

But both behaviors are valid coping mechanisms that they shouldn't be discouraged, again, unless they're causing harm. If all of a sudden I feel the need to chuck my fidget cube at somebody, we probably need to have a talk. So let's go back to the scenarios. We're still talking about the nature of sensitivity. So scenario two, you're in a new restaurant.

The HSP response quickly notices and processes multiple aspects of the environment, lighting, music, volume, temperature, other people's dinner conversations. And they can identify which sensory inputs are pleasant versus which ones are uncomfortable. And they might request a quieter table or ask for the music to be turned down. But they can typically adapt and enjoy the meal once initial adjustments are made. and they remain aware, but they can start to filter the background stimuli.

In that same scenario, an ASD response, they might find certain aspects of the environment completely intolerable, like the clink of silverware or the smell of certain foods. Let's go back to talking about sardines. They can have difficulty filtering out background noise to focus on their dining companions' conversations, and they might need very specific conditions to be comfortable, like sitting in a particular spot or having certain foods not touch on the plate.

They may even find the unpredictability of new sounds and smells really distressing and want to continue to just go back to the same place, eat the same things. And they can seek sensory input by preferring very spicy foods or specific textures at times as well.

So going back to the key difference there, HSPs processing their environment, maybe we'll call it more holistically and can usually adapt with some modifications, while those with ASD might have more specific and intense sensory needs that might be less flexible. Let's go to scenario three, a change in your office environment. The HSP response might look like the person immediately notices subtle changes, like a new air freshener or different lighting, or is that a new rug?

They can usually pinpoint exactly what's changed and then why it's affecting them. And they might feel distracted, but they can typically continue working, but they're going to need to address the change. And they can effectively communicate their needs. Hey, the new air freshener is pretty strong, kind of giving me a headache. Can we try something milder?

There are multiple clients that I have that I know when I have them coming that day that I don't burn a candle because they are just so overwhelmed by strong smells. And sometimes they will come in and say, oh, do you have a candle going today? And it would have been from the day before, but they just smell things more deeply. Now back to this office environment, the person with ASD, their response might feel intense discomfort without immediately recognizing why.

They're just not sure. and they may find the change very disruptive to their routine and their ability to focus. I've seen this happen when I've adjusted things in my office or once when I moved from one building to the next. One of my clients that was in their 20s, that very high functioning ASD, let me know for weeks that they just didn't like that they had to go a different way and that they're in a new building and they just didn't really like the office.

In that scenario, that person needed significant time to adjust even to minor changes, but this was a big change. And they might really have difficulty articulating what's bothering them. And this person definitely did have difficulty understanding that that was why they just felt so unsure, uneasy, or anxious when they were coming to the new building. And so then somebody with ASD could experience shutdown or meltdown if the change

is too disruptive. I realized at that point that I might even lose a client because of it. So back to these key differences in this office environment, HSPs typically maintain awareness. They can articulate their sensory experiences, but they're still trying to manage them. And then those with ASD might experience more intense disruption from changes and need more time and support to adjust.

So I think, and we'll wrap this up, the fundamental differences across all these scenarios is that HSPs generally maintain conscious awareness of their sensory experience. They can typically identify and articulate what's bothering them. And they usually, you can see typically and usually, these are not all or nothing statements, usually have more flexibility in their coping strategies. And they can often adapt within the situation.

While those with ASD typically have more sudden or intense reactions to sensory input. And they might find it harder to express or identify what's causing that distress. And so they may need more specific and consistent accommodations. And then they often require more time and support to process and adapt to sensory changes.

Actually, before we wrap things up, and I know this is going a bit long, but one of the places you see the most difference is in social interactions. Let me spend a little bit of time here because I think this is where you can really identify key differences, but you'll also see that there continues to be similarities as well.

So let's talk about social hierarchies and conversation timing and things like that that happen in a group setting and why these can be particularly challenging for somebody with ASD. Because you can think of social hierarchy is almost like this invisible, I guess, like a web of relationships and power dynamics. So in most group settings, especially professional ones, there are unwritten rules about who can say what, when, and how. For neurotypical people, these rules are often intuitive.

They naturally sense when to defer to authority or how to navigate complex relationships. For somebody with ASD, these invisible rules can be really challenging to perceive and especially to navigate. Because imagine somebody trying to play a game where everybody else seems to know the rules instinctively, but you've never been explicitly told them. And even if you are told them, it makes no sense to you. And this is often how social hierarchies feel to somebody with ASD.

So if you go back to this workplace environment, you might be in a workplace meeting, and this is very much based on real life experience. There are subtle differences in how you might, let's say, challenge an idea from a peer versus a senior manager, or present technical information to different audience levels or know where certain topics should be discussed privately rather than in group settings.

I remember going and doing demonstrations of software when I was in the software industry well before I became a therapist and taking an engineer or two with me and I was talking to magazine editors trying to get favorable reviews and then you would have this engineer just talk completely over their head and when I would say hey can you try to dumb that down they would just look at me and think I don't understand this is the way it works.

Let's talk also about timing in group conversations. Group conversations have a natural rhythm, almost like a dance. When you know to jump in, when you share a story, when you don't. So for most people, the rhythm can somewhat come naturally. Even if that's not a rhythm or a situation that you participate in, you might be able to sit back and still observe and understand when you could jump in. They can sense the right moment to join, when to hold back or when somebody else is about to speak.

But typically for someone with ASD, this rhythm, it can be really difficult to perceive. It's almost like trying to join like a jump rope game in motion. They can see the rope turning, but timing your entry perfectly requires complex coordination and a prediction of patterns.

And I think here's where it gets back to the differences of where I've spoken with enough HSPs who sit back and watch a group dynamic play out and understand they just choose not to interject because they're worried that they might say the wrong thing or that somebody might take something the wrong way. So, often they just don't say anything. But then that person with ASD is trying to interject and it's awkward and it doesn't work and they're not quite sure why.

And here's what makes these things really challenging. So, things like conversational pauses aren't always invitations to speak because sometimes people pause to breathe or to think. And multiple subtle cues might signal that somebody is about to speak, slight body movements and take a breath, shifting position. And then the one that can be a real challenge for people with ASD, the right amount of time to speak. Because that can vary by context and social setting.

Go back to Sarah and Michael at the beginning of this episode, which was very much based on a true story, and where Sarah did not understand the rhythm of communicating. And then different people might send different signals about wanting to enter the conversation or to leave the conversation. Let's go back to Sarah. So now she's in a meeting and Sarah has very important information that she wants to share about a technical issue.

So she sees what she thinks is a pause in the conversation and she starts speaking about the technical problem. What she hasn't noticed is that the team leader was taking a breath to transition to the next agenda item. And there was already another colleague who had slightly raised their hand indicating, okay, can I have, can I speak for a second. And then the current topic was pretty much wrapped up, not open for new discussion.

So Sarah still contributed. And while it was valuable, it might be perceived as an interruption because she missed all these subtle social cues. And this isn't because she's being rude or doesn't care about others. It's because this complex web of social signals that guide conversation timing is not as naturally readable for her as it is for neurotypical individuals.

So understanding these challenges, I think, can really help explain why somebody with ASD might appear to interrupt or speak at inappropriate times. They're not ignoring social rules. They're often simply unable to perceive those subtle cues that make these rules invisible to others. And this is fundamentally different from an HSP who might feel overwhelmed by social interaction, but they can read and navigate these social dynamics much more intuitively.

If you look at an HP in a group conversation, most likely they're picking up the subtle emotional undertones in the group dynamics. They're probably noticing tension between others before it becomes really obvious. They might even jump in and try to buffer for one person who they think is starting to get frustrated with another. But they can also feel overwhelmed by absorbing and metabolizing everybody else's emotions.

So they may need breaks, but then they can still seamlessly just come back in and rejoin a conversation. And an example of that might be they notice a friend's slight change in tone, indicating discomfort, so then they naturally shift the topic. And back to ASD, most likely struggling, tracking multiple conversations. They might find it very difficult to enter into the discussions. Most likely, they may be missing social hierarchies and group dynamics.

And they can become overwhelmed by processing multiple social inputs. So they might interrupt somebody without realizing, or they might continue a topic after others have moved on. And one more thing. I forgot I have some notes down about how nonverbal communication

differs between HSPs and then people with ASD. Because this is a pretty big one. Think of HSP's ability to read nonverbal cues as like having really a highly sensitive emotional radar. Because they don't just see facial expressions and they don't just see body language. They process them together deeply, intuitively. And it's almost like similar to how a sommelier, a professional wine taster, can detect subtle notes. Something is always woody and undertones that others might miss.

In my world, I think, I don't think they can do that. But what do I know? Because I'm not them. But this heightened sensitivity means that they're often processing layers of emotional information that others, even neurotypical individuals, may not notice. Imagine walking into a meeting room. The HSP might immediately notice slight tension in somebody's shoulders, indicating a little stress, barely perceivable tremor in somebody's voice, suggesting some anxiety.

The way two colleagues are sitting slightly angled away from each other, suggesting that they might have a recent conflict, or maybe even a subtle shift in the room's entire energy when a particular topic is mentioned. And a reminder, the sensitivity is not learned. It's an inherent way that the brain processes social and emotional information.

They may notice that a friend's laugh sounds slightly forced, or that a colleague's unusual enthusiastic greeting seems a little bit more subdued, leading them to sense something's wrong long before others pick up on it.

But now if we look at nonverbal communication and ASD, if we look in contrast for many people with autism, reading nonverbal communication is like honestly trying to understand a foreign language without a translator, because the signals are there, but the inherent meaning isn't automatically processed. This isn't about intelligence, and it's definitely not about a lack of caring, but it's about, again, how their brain processes social information differently.

So using the same meeting room scenario, a person with autism might miss the subtle signs of tension or conflict, focus on the literal words being spoken rather than tone or inflection, or find it challenging to maintain eye contact while processing what's being said, and they may need explicit verbal confirmation to other people's emotional states. What you often see is that, let's say, a conversation's wrapping up.

And going back to that opening example, which I love so much, is when Michael said, well, I should probably let you get back to work. The HSP would immediately recognize this as a polite way to end the conversation and most likely apologize. I am so sorry I kept you this long. And then they're picking up on the subtle shifts in the body language, indicating that the person really needs to leave.

They notice if the person's genuinely uncomfortable ending the conversation or maybe even feeling rushed. And again, the HSP is most likely going to be the one that is already apologized three or four times and is the one that's leaving.

They will most likely respond with an appropriate social cue to facilitate a smooth ending, but take the person with ASD and they most likely will take that statement literally, maybe even responding with, I don't actually need to get back to work right now, missing that implied meaning that the other person wants to end the conversation and then continue the conversation until finally they are told that by somebody that it is time to wrap up and they feel confused when the other person seems

frustrated despite not having directly stated that they needed to leave. So just that difference in processing nonverbal communication affects not just individual interactions, but how both groups experience social situations overall. HSPs might become overwhelmed because they're processing too much emotional info. But individuals with autism might become overwhelmed because they're working too hard to consciously decode social signals that other people process automatically.

And this explains why HSPs might need recovery time after social interactions, and individuals with autism might need recovery time due to the mental effort required to consciously track and interpret social cues that don't come naturally to them.

So I like to call this, it is the burning of emotional calories. So think of HSP's social energy as more like a rechargeable battery, and it drains gradually, but it's pretty predictable. They're typically very aware of their energy level. They can pace themselves accordingly. Their fatigue typically comes from processing the rich emotional and sensory information in social settings. Kind of like running multiple background programs on a computer, they slowly use up your processing power.

So during that social event, the HSP might experience this gradual buildup of emotional information because they're absorbing everybody else's feelings. They have awareness of multiple layers of social dynamics happening right on the spot simultaneously. And then they have a deep processing of the conversations and the interactions that are having. And then that comes with conscious management of their own emotional responses.

I think about a story I heard once at a wedding where this person that I think was very highly sensitive, they might participate dancing, engaging in deep conversations, celebrating with very genuine emotion, but they're aware this battery, this rechargeable battery is going quick. It is depleting. So they might take short breaks throughout the event, step outside for fresh air, find quieter moments to recharge.

The next day, they probably need recovery time, not because the event was unpleasant, but because their emotional processing system needs time to integrate all the experiences. And if you think about the burning of emotional calories, somebody with ASD, the burning of emotional calories is more like trying to run a complex piece of software on incompatible hardware. The system might work, but it requires significant extra processing power and maybe a few updates.

And every now and again, it might shut down unexpectedly if it becomes overwhelmed and you're going to have to reboot it. The fatigue comes from the constant conscious effort required to decode and respond to social situations that others would process automatically. So during these social interactions, somebody with ASD might experience intense focus, and that's required for just basic processing, trying to read facial expressions, trying to maintain appropriate eye contact.

But they could have difficulty filtering the relevant social information from the background noise. And so they have this constant conscious analysis of social rules and expectations going, which takes up energy. And so they have this unexpected energy depletion from what could also seem like really simple interactions.

You can take a common situation like small talk, because while most people engage in it automatically, for somebody with ASD, it might involve trying to remember appropriate conversation topics, or monitoring their own tone and volume, or attempting to gauge the other person's interest, or processing sensory information from the environment, or trying to identify when and how to end the conversation.

And so I think this explains why somebody with ASD might suddenly reach their limit without warning, because it's almost like their processing demands became too intense to maintain. And it's like a computer or my phone, now that we moved to Arizona, that will overheat. And all of a sudden, it just shuts down. That's a fascinating one.

If I think of one of the first clients I ever worked with with ASD, they came in and they were looking for help on why they would be in a big meeting or they would be talking with guys in the hallway or they would be talking with their coworkers at lunch. And then all of a sudden they would realize this is boring me and they would just leave. And one of their coworkers finally pulled them aside and said, hey, that's kind of rude.

Another one that was really fascinating about that person was they asked me if, doesn't everybody think often in movie quotes, which I thought was really interesting because they would just throw out movie quotes constantly. And when they weren't met with somebody else sharing a movie quote or sharing that experience, they didn't understand. And so they were coming to me asking for help on how do they communicate more effectively and not just through movie quotes.

So it was very fascinating to see that. So I have more, I have so much more data. Maybe we'll save that for a follow-up at some point.

I would love your feedback if you have experiences that you would like to share about your struggles or challenges or your wonderfulness with either HSP or ASD. And if any of this resonated with you, I would love your stories. I would love to do a follow-up that I just am able to share stories of how people have recognized maybe any of the things that we've talked about today and what they've done to either embrace it, accept it, or maybe even overcome it.

But I'm just grateful for your time. I'm so thankful for people tuning into the podcast year after year. And I would love it if you would follow this and rate and subscribe and review and all those wonderful things wherever you get your podcast. And taking us out per usual on the virtual couch is Aurora Florence and her amazing song. It's wonderful because honestly, life truly can be once you embrace who you

are because you're the only version of you. Have an amazing week. We'll see you next time. Music.