Shame: The Self-Absorbed, Selfish, Uninvited Guest at Your Self-Esteem Party (and how to get them to leave!)

So I was recently watching the Apple TV series, presumed innocent. And I honestly had such an epiphany at the time when absolutely no epiphanies are anticipated. And , it was this realization that actually caused me to want to create a podcast episode about this epiphany. And that also played a pretty significant role in my therapy practice over the last couple of weeks. And I think we'll continue to do so moving forward. I think you'll see why.

Let me set the stage and I promise I won't give any spoilers if you haven't watched it. If you're not familiar with the show, it was first a book that was released in 1987 by author Scott Terrell and That was my junior year of high school, and I have a memory of reading the paperback.

Now, I don't know if that was a memory of reading the paperback later in life, or if there was trying to channel my 1987 listening to you choose the Joshua tree, maybe on my walk, man, wearing some acid wash jeans and having Reebok pumps waiting until the next episode of full house to drop. Maybe even trying to see if anybody would. Want to go see Dirty Dancing in the theater. Not that I really want to see the dancing, of course. Patrick Swayze is really cool.

Then the book was made into a movie in 1990 and that starred Harrison Ford and I am certain That I saw that with my wife and that was the year that we were married, I might add. And if I were better with sound effects, I would cue the aww right about now. But now there's an eight part series based on the book and I haven't finished it yet, but I am really enjoying it.

The epiphany came though in episode four titled The Burden. There's a particular scene, and there's a character named Raymond, and he's played by actor Bill Camp, and he is this no nonsense, no BS attorney, and he's attempting to help the accused, Rusty, played by Jake Gyllenhaal Rusty has been accused of killing his affair partner, and so, I won't try to go into my acting mode, but Raymond says, And talking about the crime, or talking about finding out, I think about the affair.

Raymond was being pretty blunt with Rusty, saying how he and his wife were shocked when they heard about the affair. And he assumed Rusty's wife was shocked as well. You could tell that Rusty was getting very visibly annoyed or frustrated. There was some pretty obvious discomfort.

I think one of the questions that's fascinated me over the past few months is, What do we do with our discomfort? Do we self confront? Do we self reflect? Are we grounded enough in who we are that we can weather a storm of criticism? Or do we lash out? Or do we play small? Or do we gaslight?

Rusty was no doubt going through all kinds of feelings, you know, feelings of him getting caught, of having the affair, of betraying his wife, possibly losing his career, even his own life if he gets convicted. And we don't even know at this point whether he did it or not. And one of the fun things about becoming an old man now is I have read the book and the movie and I don't remember how it ends as well. So I'm just as excited. But what did he do with his discomfort?

He comes back at Raymond and he was heated and Rusty said, how dare you say that I don't take responsibility, that I don't feel shame and that I'm not consumed with guilt. And Raymond gave it a minute. There was a very dramatic pause, and then he said the following, epiphany included. He said, you know, in 40 years, I've seen a lot of guilt and shame in this business. Shame is something that you put on yourself. It's self absorbed. It's self centered.

Guilt is more about owning and feeling the pain that you cause others. I don't doubt that you feel shame in the scene. I know that it would not have fit into the scene well, but I wish he happened to be heading to karaoke and he liked bringing his own mic every time he found a place to sing just so that he could have held it up and dropped it as he left the room. And I'll read that again and we'll talk about it a little bit later here in the podcast as well.

But he said, I've seen a lot of guilt and shame in this business. Shame is something that you put on yourself. It's self absorbed. It's self centered. Guilt is more about owning and feeling the pain that you cause others. And he says, I don't doubt that you feel shame.

So today we're going to cover a lot of ground. And we're going to talk a lot about Shane, and we're going to give some tools that will put Shane maybe into perspective, talking about the origin story and how it's. Still this childhood defense mechanism, this wound that we have when we default to shame, but for some reason think that shame is somehow going to help us feel motivated to do better. So I promise that this one is going to help you have a better.

Relationship with yourself with your own thoughts, with your emotions. And in turn, I really believe that if you've ever struggled with that idea or concept, which I hear often of needing to love oneself before you can truly love others, what does that even mean? Or why is it so hard to receive love? Or if you continually play a track inside of your head that man, I'm just so dumb, or I'm so lazy, or I'm not living the life that I wanted to live or be the person that I want to be.

And even as I'm saying these things, What did that start to feel like if you're just hearing these things, but today I really think we're going to start to make some sense of the origins of shame and why we continue to beat ourselves up and feel like we need to be hard on ourselves or we won't change. Today's one of those days where I encourage you to embrace the phrase. I don't know what I don't know. And maybe even lean into a little bit of that discomfort, grab a notebook.

And I'm being honest about this part, take some notes, jot them down on your phone and send them to me. I want you to email me with all of your, yeah, butts. As in, if I share something today, if your first thought is, well, yeah, but what about if this happens? Or, yeah, but he doesn't understand this or yeah, but what if, fill in the blank because those yeah, butts are going to mean that you're onto something.

But our adorable, beautiful, it's a stretch because it actually looks a little bit wrinkly and gross, but our pink squishy brains absolutely think that they are doing you a favor by yeah butting anything new or uncertain because after all, the brain is truly a don't get killed device. Your brain. , bless its little pink, squishy heart. It's working off of this premise that it has a finite amount of electrical activity.

So it needs to put everything it can into the habit center to habitualize things to say, I'll do it later to yeah, but things because it likes certainty. Oh, it wants certainty and it likes black or white and all or nothing. But that's not where we live. We we live more in this world of uncertainty and in the gray and we can learn what to do with that. Then we can really start to thrive and to grow.

You know, we're just so afraid of discomfort that we just avoid anything uncomfortable or in relationships. We're so afraid that things will become contentious that we avoid all things , that have tension. So we're going to hit all these things today. With that said, Oh yeah. Welcome to episode 425 of the virtual couch. I am your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I'm a certified mindful habit coach.

I'm a writer, speaker, husband, father of four, and also creator of the path back. And I have not been promoting this as of late but it is still an incredible community of people that are trying to turn away from turning to unhealthy coping mechanisms like pornography. And it's such a strength based group. And one of the tenants of it is there's no room for shame. In my dojo. So I think today is going to be really applicable.

So if you are interested in, and taking the path back course the weekly group calls are probably one of the highlights of my week, honestly. And if you're listening to this episode and you are interested, reach out to me, I'll I'll get you a coupon code personally that will discount the rate to get you in that course, because it's, it's a powerful, it really is. Okay.

So I'm going to go back to that scene from presumed innocent, and I want to do a deep dive into the selfishness of shame. But before I do that, I really want to set the table a bit. And really let's set the table. We're talking fancy forks, maybe even a ring around the napkins, because I want to take a moment and say that if you're dealing with shame right now, it's okay. Shame is normal. I think we all go through periods where we feel a lot of shame and it can be really difficult. It's tough.

It can make you feel alone. It can make you feel scared. It can make you feel like you're not good enough. And I want you to know that you are good enough. You are a human going through life for the very first time as you. And so, hang in here because we're going to really make sense of where that shame comes from. And it goes back to your brain thinks it's doing you a solid by saying, Hey, this, the childhood defense mechanism that we have programmed in it just happens.

So I'm guessing that it must be okay when in reality, as we become more mature, it's time to grow into more mature ways to, to soothe to grow, to change. You're definitely not alone in feeling the way that you do and please reach out with your questions or if there would love to know your thoughts of what comes up for you today, because the goal of the podcast today is not to make anybody feel bad.

I am not here to point fingers or judge, Instead, I want to shine a light on those negative thought patterns that we all fall into. Those habits of thinking that really can cause us to feel stuck and think what's wrong with me. Cause I, I am confident that to get better, we first need to understand why we do what we do, or what are these thoughts, what are these things that we're doing or thinking? It's like trying to fix a car.

It's good to know what's happening, what's causing that clunk to happen under the hood before you can really make it right. So today I'm just. Wanting to provide some insight, share some information, but the main hope is to give you hope. Sometimes all the time. So often we don't know what we don't know.

That's why I think listening to podcasts like this and others that are dealing with this topic are really helpful because I think it can be that little spark that starts to change and how we think or act.

And I have noticed in my practice and probably in my own life, it can be a little bit easier to hear this kind of information from somebody who is not directly involved in, Your day to day when people you care about when they try to help a lot of times, it's our natural, we have that psychological reactance, that instant negative reaction that being told what to do, even when it comes from somebody well meaning, especially if it's somebody that we

care about, because we're going to worry about maybe disappointing them, or we don't want to be told what to do. Or we think that if I don't do this then they will leave me or they, they think less of me. So sometimes hearing it from a stranger, a therapist or on a podcast can really make it easier to just really allow yourself to sit with the information you're taking in.

But I think again, if you are instantly rejecting it or yeah, butting it, then that is, it's something there to take a look at because we are wired to alleviate the discomfort and fall back into these habitual patterns. Let's go back to that scene. So Rusty says, how dare you say that? I don't take responsibility that I don't feel shame that I'm not consumed with guilt. So that's how he's alleviating his discomfort at that moment.

And The And I think, boy, the intensity that Jake Gyllenhaal showed in that scene, I really didn't think that there was going to be that it was going to hit this Raymond character. Raymond stayed very grounded, very differentiated, but you could tell that that's how Rusty was used to alleviating his discomfort. If he gets big or bold, then other people most likely are going to shut down because they, there's not going to be anything productive here.

That's when Raymond said in that grounded self confident way in these 40 years, I've seen a lot of guilt and shame, shame, something you put on yourself, self absorbed, self centered and guilt about owning and feeling the pain that you cause others. And that's where he said, I don't doubt that you feel shame. Is it normal to feel shame? Absolutely. Because it was a survival mechanism as a kid, it's a need seeking behavior.

And I really think it gets messy as we grow older, as we mature and mature in many ways. We still revert back to some of our childlike defense mechanisms, or I look at it like shame programming . And I think that's where things get really complicated. We go there almost instantly and it can be like a visceral or gut reaction, but we don't like how we feel when we're there.

But at that time I would also point out that our emotional baseline is so low that it's hard to access the tools to even get out of that hole when you're feeling so down. So the more that we can do to make sense of things or to practice our offense against shame before it hits the better because it'll hit so fast. So I think it really is about time that we how about we start working on getting rid of the shame. Because how is it selfish?

Well, I believe it's tied to the origin story of shame because as kids we were taught born conditioned to expect that our needs were going to be met when expressed. And that is it's a beautiful part of creation where we have these little, just helpless infants. And so how are they going to survive? We have a new grandson living in our house right now, six weeks old.

And I think of this often now when I'm looking at him of thinking, man, some species, they I was to say, pump out or spit out a kid, probably not the most sympathetic thing to say, but they have a baby. And if it's the baby horse that can walk and run away and I don't know, baby rhinoceroses look like they're ready to go. It's go time. I wouldn't try to fight one for sure, but our little babies can't do anything. Can't hold up their heads. They can't even really see very far. And so then.

With our grandson, if he cries, we are on it immediately. Even the dogs literally rush over to see if they can help. If he smiles, we all gather around. If he sneezes, we video it literally because it's the most adorable thing in the world. He winds up that sneeze for quite a while beforehand. Uh, if he farts or burps, we cheer, we celebrate. And I am absolutely leaving a couple of obvious jokes on the table about the celebratory nature of bodily functions.

And apparently that had to stop as we grew older. I missed that memo. But as we grew, we were still operating from a child's perspective. We were in fact, little adorable narcissists everything was about us. For many, actually it still is, but in this scenario, if we express the need or wanted something different for dinner, we throw a fit until we got our way. If we wanted cereal for dinner, our parent would say no. And we would think, hold on, slow down. I said, I want cereal, old man.

Now get cracking. Like you've always done. Do I have to mess myself to get somebody to care, cause we had no idea, or and I go back to the examples of if you wanted a pony for your birthday and you live in an apartment, that was what someone had actually shared with me at one point. And they said to this day, it was still hard for them, but they went right back to their visceral gut reaction that they felt like my parents didn't care about me. But then.

He also knew that he grew up in an apartment in a, in an inner city. So there were no ponies that were going to fit in the apartment in the courtyard. But in his mind, he said, but I wanted one. So I didn't understand. Hopefully he understands now, go back to this cereal for dinner. We had no idea why our parents were going through it. We didn't understand how much.

Sugar, those cereals contained how maybe a parent without dental insurance was reluctant to give into a cereal as a meal 24, seven, because of the potential future dental bills, the child doesn't know or understand any of these things. So to the kid, all of a sudden their needs are just not being met period. End of story, their desires, their wishes, they are not the number one priority. So in that case, here comes the shame. They immediately go to, they meet my needs until they don't.

And when they don't, I don't understand. So it must be me. I must be bad. I'm flawed. They no longer care about me. They don't love me. And in that scenario, shame enters and the kid shuts down and when all needs are need seeking behaviors, then at that point too, a lot of times the kid will then shoot for things like perfectionism or look at me or I must perform or do well, or they might then get angry.

They might become defiant as ways to get seen because they're so afraid that if you don't see them then you will abandon them and they are just coming off of feeling abandoned because you didn't do what they wanted you to do. So what happens next? So when someone shuts down with shame and I, and this is where I like, let's think about it from a, that little kid aspect that eventually if they are just down on themselves and thinking they are just a horrible person.

Now it's up for those around them to suit them, to comfort them, to validate them. So while shame then eventually hides in secret and it causes people to isolate and pull away, it also manifests in people not showing up as their best selves. And they know that, and that's what can be so frustrating. And I think it's this just insidious dance between, I don't want to feel like this and I want to be showing up better, but I don't know what to do.

And at times that I need somebody to tell me it's going to be okay, but then I don't need, I don't want them to take on that role, but then maybe I do, maybe I need them to, and it's just a lot of cognitive dissonance because that will often require others to caretake and try to motivate them rather than them learning how to develop self soothing, self motivation and self care skills.

I want to, again, with this table set that we're just trying to bring some awareness to this so that we can head it off at the pass or when one comes out of a shame spiral or a shame cycle, what do they do? So let's just talk a little bit about why then shame can be self absorbed because just looking at it in context in that moment, it really is about, it's all about me when we feel shame, we are thinking about ourselves. We're beating ourselves up.

We feel like we are horrible people, how bad we are, how awful we feel. We're not really thinking about others. And I'm not saying that we need to now go and try to get validation from others. We're not thinking even about a connection to others or about being able to to work through emotions in concert with another human. And then shame happens on the inside. It's a feeling that we have on the inside.

It doesn't usually make us do anything to get outside of ourselves again to maybe help others or fix problems that we might've caused that caused us to feel shame makes us hide. We play small when we feel ashamed or when we feel shame, we often want to hide from everybody. And by definition, I would say it's a little selfish because we're just focusing on nothing but our own feelings. I need to work this out. And honestly, shame it doesn't fix things.

And I think that's one of , the big challenges, the misnomers, , the, , falsehoods about shame is that going back to that childhood wounding where we still feel like I have to show that I really feel bad. I think about this one often when you're a kid and you're sick. You have to sell your sickness. To be able to stay home from school, , what was the movie? Ferris Bueller, where does he put the thermometer , On the lamp bulb. , I have to sell this.

I remember I had a friend in high school who would hit himself with , a brush and then make it look like he had a rash. And he would often develop these rashes when he really wanted to get out of class. And he was never discovered for that. But as adults. Sometimes we still feel the same way. We, think, okay, , if I'm going to be sick and I'm going to take a day off from work, then I need to really show that I'm really sick. But the reality is I can feel sick and I don't have to sell it.

I'm the one that knows it. So I think that that shame still comes from this place of I have to show other people as well that I really am taking this seriously. And, here's where it's different than guilt. . And this is part of that quote from the show, guilt makes us think about how we've heard others are often makes us want to fix things and shame makes us feel bad about ourselves.

And I think one of the challenges there is , I've never, never been sold on shame, but for a while I was saying, okay, I don't know if I really like the idea of guilt as well, but I did hear at one point, uh, someone talk about guilt of guilt is a stop sign where it can bring awareness to something that we have done and allow us to then do a little self confrontation. So then guilt makes us think about how we've heard.

Others often makes us want to fix things where shame just makes us feel bad about ourselves. And a lot of times when people resort to shame, they punish themselves When shame is prevalent, people often beat themselves up mentally, and that does keep them focused on themselves instead of others. , it's about who we are. It's this negative image of ourselves . Shame can make us think that we're bad people, not just that we did something bad. And that keeps us stuck in this negative cycle.

Shame keeps us thinking about ourselves in a negative way. , it doesn't help us heal. That's why Raymond says. That is self absorbed and self centered. He thinks guilt's better because it makes us think about how maybe we've affected others or the impact that we've had. And then that is more likely to lead to change, so let's talk more about our thoughts.

Because in the world of acceptance and commitment therapy, I still will maintain what I love about it is I have no automatic negative thoughts. I have no stinking thinking the thoughts I'm having are the thoughts I'm having because I'm the only version of me that's ever walked the face of the earth. And this is the first time that I'm, I'm operating as me in the situation I'm in right now. , so check that out. This is what I'm thinking, or this is how I'm feeling.

And when we are thinking and feeling what's wrong with me, I'm broken, that's an automatic negative thought, I need to just change my thought, I need to stop thinking this, I think those are more of the tools that have led to some of the challenges that we have with anxiety, with depression. Because we really do need to recognize that I am noticing a thought I am feeling a feeling. And so then I can step back and look at those in the context of the moment and say, check that out.

, this is the first time I've been in this moment. This is how I'm feeling. This is what I'm thinking. So now that's going to give me some clues on, on what this means to me or what these feelings are trying to tell me or warn me about. Maybe it's reminding me of something that I've, , felt or been through when I was in childhood. I really think the power Of our thoughts is real, but the power of thoughts in essence, isn't again, trying to stop them or just automatically change them.

But I think the more that we take in the more that we have this access to , these thoughts that we can then turn to or rely on when we're struggling with Our negative view of ourself. , I pulled some of the top quotes. I think that maybe we've all heard things like, I think therefore I am, , by Descartes or Henry Ford's, whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. Those are good reminders of the profound impact that our thoughts can have on our lives.

If I think then therefore I am. But now let's take a little step further and let's talk about one of my favorite books, Buddha's brain by Rick Hansen. He introduces this concept of implicit memory. And he says, much as your body is built from the food you eat, your mind is built from the experiences that you have. The flow of experience gradually sculpts your brain and that shapes your mind. And some of the results are explicitly recalled. Like this is what I did last summer.

This is how I felt when I was in love, but he says, most of the shaping of your mind remains forever unconscious. And this is called implicit memory. I think this is one of the most important concepts to understand because it includes your expectations, your models of relationships, your emotional tendencies, and your general outlook on life. Your implicit memory.

, establishes the interior landscape of your mind or what it feels like to be you, and it's based off of the slow accumulating residue of lived experience. Now, when I went searching for information to help me make sense of things that led me to this implicit memory concept, it was because I just happened upon my audible memory. Audio book library and saw that there were at that time, almost 500 books in my library. That is not a humble brag.

That is me saying, and I don't think I could remember the plot or, or what was going on and, and hardly any of them. So I started thinking, okay, has this been a waste of time listening to these audio books? I know it hasn't because I pull a lot of information from the books that I listened to both fiction and nonfiction that then helped me understand how I show up in my life better.

But I also, Thought about this concept of implicit memory and the fact that every one of the minutes, the seconds, the, that I'm listening to one of these audio books, I have this potential to take in new information. , I'm interacting with these characters, this dialogue in my mind and creating, , scenes scenarios. I'm having thought thoughts around , why does this character do this?

Or I'm anticipating things or wondering about the author or I'm taking a new data, if it's things that might help me with my practice, what I'm not doing. And those situations is spending time creating an interior landscape of my mind that is beating myself up about things, ruminating, wondering what's wrong with me. , not even from a place of distraction, but from a place , of doing something more productive than ruminating or beating myself up.

But then here is the challenge, though, that Rick Hansen says about the brain. He says, here's the problem. Your brain preferentially scans for, registers, stores, recalls, and reacts to unpleasant experiences. , It's like Velcro for the negative experiences and Teflon for the positive ones. So it's going to hang on to those negative experiences and this, the positive ones are just going to slide right on through.

, so consequently he says, even when positive experiences outnumber negative ones, the pile of negative implicit memories partially grows faster. And then the background feeling of what it feels like to be, you can become undeservedly glum and pessimistic, but here's the key. The remedy is not to suppress your negative experiences when they happen. They happen. That's that. Accept them. That happened. Give myself grace, benefit of the doubt. This is the first time I've been me in this situation.

It's to foster these positive experiences and in particular, take them in so they become a permanent part of you. And , that section of the book, I think it is so brilliantly highlights how our experiences, even negative ones, and especially the negative ones shape our internal landscape.

Or implicit memory, , our brains are wired to hold on to negative experiences like Velcro and the positive ones slip away like Teflon and this unconscious accumulation of just the things that we're thinking and feeling and experiencing. That's what he calls that interior landscape of your mind or what it feels like to be you. So then maybe it leads one to start thinking, okay, so we're doomed to negativity, but that is not the message.

This is where we bring in some wisdom from acceptance and commitment therapy or act act teaches us a very crucial principle. Our thoughts are simply thoughts. They're not commands that we have to obey, nor are they absolute truths about reality. We all have a lot of different thoughts and feelings that are happening at any given moment. So why is it that we attach such meaning to some and let others go right by? What if we attach meanings to the, I'm so lazy, , what's wrong with me?

But then the one that goes by that says, but you do accomplish things and you are making some progress. Why can't we attach or connect with those thoughts? , and notice those others, it's one of the best exercises on this is imagining your mind as a sky and your thoughts are these clouds that are passing through. Sometimes they are dark and stormy, and those might represent the negative thoughts. Others are light and fluffy. Maybe they represent positive thoughts.

And the goal is to just become observers of those thought clouds rather than getting hooked on everyone that passes by every dark cloud that passes by. Oh, great. Here we go. It's going to, it's going to storm. Versus the, Oh, check that out. It's a storm cloud. I'm noticing rain, even because that ability to step back and observe our thoughts. That's the game changer because that allows us to recognize the thought is just that a thought. It doesn't define us.

We don't have to act on it. And it's especially powerful when it comes to those sticky negative thoughts that are brains tend to amplify and make them even larger or louder. So how do we start to change the internal monologue? It really does start with awareness. Because if you start recognizing thoughts as simply thoughts, then we start to create space between ourselves and all that internal chatter that we have in our mind.

And that space that's where the choice comes to choose which thoughts to engage with.

I don't necessarily have this opportunity to always choose to not think that or choose to be happy, but I can notice when I am feeling happy and I can then engage with that happiness, be more present. Because the goal is not to suppress your negative experiences or thoughts because when they happen, they happen. Check those out. Instead, we want to cultivate and absorb the positive experiences. And we start to then make them a lasting part of our implicit memory.

And that's part of this mechanism of memory , if you really want to start learning how to be present, taking in the, these positive moments, when you do notice that you are feeling good about something, stop for a moment, square up your shoulders, take a good old in through the nose out through the mouth breath, and then just observe and take in the things around you. If you're feeling good about something, , what can you see? What can you hear? What can you feel? What can you smell?

What can you touch and try to create that implicit memory? Being more intentional about taking in those good moments, even if that good moment party is crashed by the thoughts of worry and doubt and despair that starts to change that implicit memory or what it feels like to be you and forgive the cliches coming up.

But I think it's so important to understand that changing that internal landscape of your mind is a journey, not a destination. I mean, you're not going to just complete this one and move on to the next task on your list, but I promise you that when that internal shift occurs.

And it suddenly becomes the way that you operate the way that you think that is a feeling that I really do wish everyone could experience that they could spend more time with, because I think if we could get a feel for what that would feel like to have a little bit of peace in one's mind, doesn't mean that the thought stop. I can recognize and acknowledge. Those thoughts. Oh, that's a negative thought. That's a story. My brain's trying to hook me to. Okay. I'll note that brain.

That's adorable, but I'm going to take action on the ones that really mattered to me because , I think that that would help people recognize how prevalent those negative thoughts are and that they have become the interior landscape of your mind. I think it's time to hire an interior decorator.

And while I don't think I would have ever used the concepts of interior decorator and me in the same sentence, unless they were, , with other words in the sentence, such as isn't or never will be, or could use, and, but I will gladly sign up to be your new interior decorator of your mind. , but there is no magic bullet or magic pill. It's about consistent, compassionate practice. As a matter of fact, what if I were to tell you that it will take as long as it will take?

I warned you about a cliche and as long as you're continuing to be aware and using the tools when you become aware of them and give yourself grace whenever you recognize that you may have slipped back into an old familiar way of thinking, would you be okay with that? , or would you need a timeframe? , what if I were to tell you that it could take potentially years to change that interior landscape of your mind? That is part of the problem. That can be a tough selling point.

But I think a lot of those same concepts and principles apply is the change something that you're truly open to or interested in, or has so much time past that while you may tell yourself that you really want that change is your desire for the change more of a socially compliant goal.

, is it something that you think that I should want, but I don't even know if I really want that because if that's the case, your motivation will be pretty weak and ineffective because that isn't necessarily what it really does feel like to be you is to want that change. Sometimes we say we do, here's cliche number two one of the challenges.

Is it harder to keep things the way they are or to make a change? Because that question is starting to ask us to, to compare two different types of discomfort. There's the discomfort of staying in a situation that we don't like, and there's the discomfort and making a change to improve our situation.

and there's also , the discomfort of not taking any action, which I think will start to move back toward shame because now, man, I can't even make a decision what's wrong with me, almost as if we want someone then to come , and make that decision for us. , let me give you a couple of examples of, of what these might look like, , which version of the discomfort we want staying in the situation we don't like are making the change. I think about things like, unhealthy eating habits.

Let's say that you eat a lot of junk food, hypothetically, and it causes you to feel tired and maybe you don't really like the way you fit in your clothes, making that change. That would be deciding to eat healthier. And at first it would be very hard to give up your favorite junk food.

But then if you start to feel better, a little more energetic, then that question is, is feeling tired and maybe unhappy with your appearance, staying the same, worse than the temporary discomfort of changing the diet. Or you look at friendships, a version of that staying the same, somebody has a friend who maybe puts you down and then you don't really feel that great hanging out. They don't make you feel like a very good person, but maybe you're afraid of being alone.

Maybe you think that this is the only chance I have of having a friend. Making the change, then there's a couple of versions that maybe you're going to talk to your friend about the problem or spend less time with them, and that could feel scary at first. So the question is, is the ongoing hurt from the friendship, staying the same, worse than the fear of confrontation or loneliness, which would be making a change.

Or we see this in the job front a lot, I think people that don't like their job, but they keep going because it's familiar, it pays the bills. So making the change, you might have to consider looking for a new job or going back to school, and that would mean uncertainty and possibly less money.

And so then that question is that daily stress and unhappiness at work again, staying the same worse than the uncertainty and potential financial strain of pursuing something new, which would be making a change. , there's a old Chinese proverb. I like this as the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. Second best time. Right now. . We can ruminate and wish we would have done it sooner earlier. The acceptance piece is that, but we didn't, back to the Buddha brain in the book.

Hanson talks about this path of practice. He lays out these stages of growth, but first he does talk about throwing darts.

If you're not familiar with the first dart and the second dart concept, the first start is basically the initial unavoidable pain or discomfort that we experienced when something unpleasant happens, that's going to happen in life. , the first start is literally thrown at you by life. It's part of the human condition. It's usually out of our control. For example, if you lose your job, the immediate disappointment, the shock, the fear that represents the first dart.

. The second dart , it's the additional suffering that we inflict on ourselves from our reaction to the first starter. So unlike the first start, we have more control over that second one. This is where the self judgment, the fear, , the shame, , and those interpretations intensify the initial pain of losing the job. So in that job loss scenario, you start blaming yourself.

You start feeling worthless and sinking into the pits of despair because you think, I. I could have done something to prevent this. , those feelings represent that second dart

And in the Buddha brain, then Rick Hansen lays out these four stages. That have to do with the darts, and he has a scenario where you forget to bring something home from the store. So I love how he lays this out. He says, Stage 1. You're caught in a second dart reaction, and you don't even realize it. Your partner forgets to bring the milk home, and you complain angrily without seeing that your reaction is over the top.

Stage 2. You realize you've been hijacked by greed or hatred, in the broadest sense, but you can't help yourself. So internally, you're squirming, but you can't seem to stop grumbling bitterly about the milk. And I think that stage two is where we so often find ourselves, even when we're beating ourselves up, of that in stage one, I didn't even know what I didn't know. Stage two, I know, but I can't seem to stop myself.

And so then we start to beat ourselves up and sometimes wish I never even knew what I knew. I wish I didn't even understand these things. I wish I could go back to the simpler time. But I beg to differ. You know, he talks about going into stage three. Some aspect of the reaction arises, but you don't act it out. You feel irritated, but you remind yourself. That your partner does a lot for you already, and getting cranky is just going to make things worse.

So at stage 3, I think you're really starting to, you're starting to do things or be aware of things more than you're not. And then stage 4, the reaction doesn't even come up. Sometimes you forget that you've ever had an issue. You understand that there's no milk, and you calmly figure out what to do now with your partner. That is where , you've just become. It's not that you've reached your final destination, but now what it feels like to be you, your implicit memory is okay.

And you're just recognizing a lot of things, noticing things. Nobody's out trying to harm you, or if they are, then, man, bless their heart, that's not somebody that I want to interact with. But, it will definitely take a long time, and I think that's the part, , that's a really tough sell. And he goes on to say that in education, these are known succinctly as unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, conscious competence, and unconscious competence.

If you're just paying a little bit of attention, then that probably all sounded like the same, but think about that. Unconscious, I'm unconscious about my incompetence. So that's, I don't know what I don't know. Then there's conscious incompetence. Now, unfortunately, I'm aware. of my incompetence or I'm aware that I am not showing up the way that I wish I would show up. Then he said, there's conscious competence.

So now I'm aware and I'm starting to show up a little better and then unconscious competence. I just am. And he says that those are useful labels for knowing where you are within any given issue. And he says that second stage is the hardest one. And it's often where we want to quit, you know, that part where I'm aware now, but I just don't seem to be doing anything different.

. Because when you want to quit, that's often I think where the emerging feelings of shame come into play with the, what's wrong with me versus that's such a key moment to give yourself grace and say, well, check this out now I'm aware, but yeah, it's true that maybe I'm not making the progress that I would like to, but this is the first time I've ever been me in this situation. So it's better to take this approach of, so check that out. That is definitely, a thing, this is happening.

These are thoughts, these are feelings. It's so important to keep aiming for those third and fourth stages. You will get there, especially if you're aware of it and you're starting to work on it because now it's going to be part of your internal landscape of your mind and that slow residue of lived experience. But that's where I've simplified those stages. I think into, you didn't know what you didn't know.

You know, you're simply reacting and you're just kind of being, you aren't even aware of what you're not aware of. But then next up, you realize that, you know. But like Hansen says in that stage too, you can't help yourself, internally you are squirming. You just find it hard to stop. And I believe that really will be the most difficult place to be jump to that third stage. You know, when you start making some progress, you hit the, I know, and now I'm starting to do more than I don't.

I'm taking more action on the things that matter to me and I think that's why it's so important to figure out what does matter to you. And if I'm in unhealthy relationships, then maybe I'm finally seeing it for what it is. It's unhealthy. So it's okay for me to have my own interests, my own opinions. My spouse doesn't know me better than I know myself. And I'm entitled to my own thoughts, my own hopes, my own dreams, but I can still get emotionally hijacked.

, there's an acronym in the addiction world, halt, hungry, angry, lonely, tired, or when maybe the people that I'm in a relationship with find a new button. To push that that gets me that gets me to react. And then all of a sudden I go back to beating myself up. And that's where I'm hoping that you can see there are so many paths that lead back the shame to the what is wrong with me versus the we'll check that out. This is again. This is how I'm feeling. Now I'm understanding a little bit more.

I might not be exactly where I want to be, but I'm starting to make change. And that change is starting to be based on this slow residue of lived experience, and it's starting to reshape the internal landscape of my mind. or what it feels like to be me. And finally, I become. I am being and doing. I am loving. I am creative. I no longer play small. Not perfect. But I realize that everything's an opportunity to self confront. Everything's an opportunity for growth. I am not selfish.

When I exercise self care, my job is not to be everybody's emotional support animal to the detriment of myself. When I'm being myself, I am in a better position to lift myself and those around me who are not trying to drag me down. And to those who are trying to drag me down, bless their hearts. I have a tremendous amount of empathy for them. And at some point I realized that I never would have actually gotten to the place where I am now had I not been through the things that I've been through.

And I can even truly hope that they change, that they see, maybe they do see what I'm doing. And they use that as an opportunity for growth, then take a look inward. But that's not on me. This is a process for me. , that's not why I'm becoming, I'm becoming because now that I know, I can't unknow. I can't unsee what I've already seen. I can't unring the bell. I can't close Pandora's box and so many other cliches. Maybe you've thought of a couple yourself.

I also now have this chance to become the transformational figure. And my kids, my family it's just a beautiful place to be. But once again, that process can be lengthy. It takes as long as it takes. Because of all those variables that go into what made you, you. If I were to tell you then again that this process can take years, this would have frightened you away. Or now that you're starting to know, would it actually be a bit more comforting?

Because I hope it's option B, because you're on your way, and it is going to get better, a lot better eventually, but that what better looks like, , there's a lot of variables there as well. If you're not familiar with the work of Brené Brown, I highly recommend it.

I've seen some titles call her a shame researcher, but she does say the following about shame. She said, the less you talk about it, the more you have it. She said shame needs three things to grow exponentially in our lives, secrecy, silence, and judgment. Brené Brown said that empathy is the antidote to shame. She said the two most powerful words when we're in a struggle, Me too.

And only by processing your feelings of shame with a trusted counselor or supportive friend, will you be able to move past guilt and shame and recovery. And what I think is so key to what she's saying, Is that processing of those feelings with a trusted counselor or a supportive friend, not the person that's going to say, why'd you do that? Or I wouldn't do that. Or you really did that versus the, tell me about that. Tell me what you did. What was that like? How did that feel?

Finding that person that isn't immediately going to make it about themselves. Because in that moment, what they'll often do is then they'll take your discomfort and then throw it right back on you and now need you to comfort them. Which again, Can take somebody right back to what is wrong with me? Why did I even try to express myself to this person? And we often hear it put this way, that shame then pertains to a person. Guilt pertains to action or actions. And to blame and remorse.

You know, shame says, I am bad. Guilt said, alright, I did something maybe that I don't feel good about. And more subtly, shame involves falling short of cultural and societal moral standards. But then guilt involves falling short of your own moral standards. So who better to wrap this thing up to take us home? Then Frederick Nicha, a famous philosopher. And he had this really good quote. About shame. He says, what do you consider the most humane? Despair. Someone's shame.

What is the seal of liberation? To no longer be ashamed in front of oneself. So let's break that down. What do you consider the most humane despair? Someone shame. So I need you to say in that one of the kindest things that we can do for another person is to do our best, to not make them feel ashamed. And ultimately that is a dumb thing, but I'm not saying that in a weaponized way.

But am I saying something that could cause someone to feel shame that is something that I can control if you think about it like this, when we embarrass somebody, are we pointing out their flaws in front of others? We are most likely causing them some shame. It's like we're putting a spotlight on their weaknesses or their mistakes. And nature believes that avoiding this, not putting people in situations where they feel ashamed. Is one of the most caring things that we can do.

And then he goes on to say, what is the seal of liberation to no longer be ashamed in front of oneself? And I think that part it's about personal freedom. , niches suggesting. That true freedom comes when we stop feeling ashamed of ourselves and we stopped taking on that personal shame. , it's as if somebody has a secret part of themselves, you're always hiding this because you're ashamed of it.

Maybe it's something you've done or maybe it's part of your personality, or it's a fear that you have. And as long as you're ashamed of that part. You're in this mental prison. You're always worried about it. You're always trying to hide it. But what, if you could accept that part of yourself? What if you could look at that and say, that is a part of me and that's okay. I'm human. , I'm not perfect.

You don't need, you're saying that when we can do this, when we can face ourselves without the shame. That's when we're truly free. It's like he's given us a recipe of sorts to, to be both a good person to others. But then also really finding peace within ourselves. And it is not easy to do either of those things, but Nisha thinks that , they're really important for living a good life.

And what does this look like in modern day? Let's take a fictional hypothetical couple. , we'll just call them Sarah and Mike. And they are dealing with financial stress because I think financial stress can bring on a lot of shame and the relationship. And this scenario, we'll say that Mike lost his job and he's struggling to find a new one. So this part, one Nisha says to spare someone chain, the shameful approach, the Sarah constantly criticizes Mike for not finding a job quickly.

And she makes sarcastic comments about his job search in front of friends and family saying things like, oh, a Mike's really busy these days, you know, with all the video games he's playing instead of job hunting. Because this makes Mike feel ashamed and it makes them feel worthless. Now the more humane approach would be Sarah understanding that Mike is already feeling pretty low. Don't kick a person while they're down. So instead of criticizing, then she can offer some support.

She might say things like, Hey, I know. How are you trying to find a job? I really appreciate that. Is there anything that I can do to help? Or when talking to others, she respects Mike's privacy and dignity saying something like, oh yeah, Mike's in between jobs right now. But, uh, yeah. I'm sure he's going to land on his feet or he's going to find something even better or not even bringing it up at all. And then that part too, to no longer be ashamed in front of oneself.

So, if we're talking about now, Mike's internal journey feeling ashamed. He probably thinks I'm a failure. As a husband. I can't provide for my family. Sarah deserves better than me. And then he'll start to avoid social situations and start to withdraw from. His wife. When Nisha says liberation from shame, what that might look like is Mike reflecting? And just thinking. Okay. Losing my job was tough. That happened. There's acceptance there, but it doesn't define who I am.

, I'm more than just my job. I'm still a good husband, a friend and a person. And yes, acceptance. This is a challenging time, but I am going to do my best to move forward. Because then in that example, Sarah shows how to spare Mike from shame by offering support and then maintaining his thing that he in public. Because that is the humane action that needs to talks about. And it helps preserve the relationship. And especially Mike self-esteem during a difficult time.

And then Mike's internal journey shows this path that he's on toward liberation, because at first he does feel shame. About us unemployment. But I learned to separate his job status from his worth as a person, which is so important. Because he is Mike. He has lost his job. He's not, uh, a loser who has no job. Oh yeah. Mike. He's a person he's going through things for the first time in his life has him. And check that out. He's lost his job. Now. It's an opportunity to self confront in grow.

And that will allow him to face this job search with a lot more confidence and then maintain a healthier self image, which in turn , will show up better as he's looking for a job.

So I hope that today I was able to make the point that shame so far. I'm oh, for 20 years of shame being a component of recovery, a component of growth. But yet we just default to it over and over again.

And looking at that as when we're aware of it, that when we go into this place of shame, That, that selfish nature that we've talked about is not meant to make the person that is feeling bad about themselves, feel worse, but hopefully we can bring some awareness to that early enough that if you notice that you were starting to go toward this place of shame, To be able to. Stand up straight, take a deep breath in through the nose, out through the mouth. Recognize I'm okay.

This is the first time I'm going through life as me in this situation. And this is happening. Check this out and I can notice all the feelings and thoughts and emotions, and I can have them all. But if I default to shame, am I, am I shutting down? Am I needing someone else to rescue me when this is a time where with this information I can. Rescue myself. I can show up different. I can use this opportunity for growth.

And I can finally put shame in that rear view mirror once and for all, because it is possible. To go to a place of where I can still notice that I'm feeling bad or I wish I would have done things better. But there's an absence of that. What's wrong with me. I'm a big piece of garbage because that is not going to help anyone. I would love your questions. I would love your thoughts. I would love your experiences. Feel free to send those to me. At contacted Tony overbay.com.

And I just appreciate you joining me, taking us out per usual, the wonderful, the talented. Aurora Florence with her song. It's wonderful. Have a great week. And I will see you next time on the virtual catch.