Navigating Life's Curveballs: Mackie Overbay on Hashimoto's, Health Challenges, and Embracing Uncertainty

Hey everybody, welcome to episode 428 of The Virtual Couch and episode 20 of The Mind, The Mirror, and Me. I am your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified mindful habit coach, writer, speaker, husband, father of four. And please go to TonyOverbay.com, sign up for the newsletter or visit me on social media at virtual.couch on Instagram, at virtualcouch on TikTok,

Tony Overbay licensed marriage and family therapist on Facebook and so on and so forth. Now, why the crossover episode today? Well, soon you'll be listening to an interview with my daughter, McKinley and myself. And I really want to encourage you to stick around for this one. McKinley or Mackie, as she goes by has had a pretty incredible 2024, but not in the way you might think like, oh my gosh, every second of it's been just amazing and wonderful.

She'll go into a lot of detail tell during the interview, but here's a little quick backstory. So in February, on a Sunday afternoon, I think it was, while my wife and I were in the process of putting our house up for sale for the first time in over 20 years, Mackie called and she was not doing well. And she had recently learned about a pretty serious diagnosis, an autoimmune disorder that we'll talk about in the interview. And at that time, she was struggling. She was living alone in Utah.

She had decided to move back home and then she was going to relocate to Arizona

with us and try and just get a handle on all of the different things happening in her life. She had gone out and tried to go out on her own as a cosmetologist. It had a little bit of success, but that was pretty brutal of trying to drum up her own clients. And then just her health just did not, she did not feel good. And she just really thought what is wrong with me? So finding Finding out about this autoimmune disorder was helpful, but it was also overwhelming and intimidating.

And over the last year or so prior to finding out about that, she had just, she had put on a lot of weight. She had become pretty lethargic and she's been pretty open about that on the Mind the Mirror Me podcast. And I'm not sure if I addressed this in the interview, but we really were just worried about her. And I believe she opens up about how she was feeling and again, not doing very well. But I had asked her on that afternoon, that conversation, if she really wanted

me to just jump on a plane, fly out to Utah and drive her home. And she kept saying no. But in that moment, I guess I had my own little epiphany and it connects to my emotional baseline theory that when life is really hard, you still have to make all of your daily decisions. But sometimes your baseline of emotions is so low that you can't really reach or access the tools that you need.

So when somebody offers help, you may not feel able to say yes, or like you're deserving of saying yes, even though you need it. You may not even know that that is really what you need. And it's a tricky balance because you really want to respect somebody's autonomy, their independence, their boundaries. But sometimes it does feel like you need to step in because this person may not be in a position where they can make good decisions because that baseline is so low.

And in the world of differentiation, David Schnarch talks about this concept of constructing your crucible, where you reach gridlock with somebody, often a partner, but it could be anybody, where neither of you can validate yourselves or each other. And so you really are at this standstill. And that's what I felt like Mackie and I were. She's saying, I don't know what to do. I am not good. And I'm saying, do you want me to come

out and get you? And she's saying no. And so neither of us felt very good about that. And Schnarch says that gridlock is where you then construct this crucible. You extract your unresolved personal issues from the situation and you confront them as an act of integrity. And sometimes that means owning your projections and that projection is okay. Well, she's, she's not going to want me to do this, or she's going to be really upset.

And so I'm owning that, that that is a projection of mine. And if I just let that projection take over, then I'm not even going to give whatever it is a chance to happen, whether it is me going out there or just trying to be there for her. Because what if she really isn't in a position to make a good decision for herself? So owning your projections, even when the other person doesn't reciprocate, you focus on yourself, not the relationship and not on changing the other person.

So I think you can maybe see where this can get really, really tricky because Schnarch talks about constructing this crucible after you are in a pretty good place where you are becoming very differentiated. And that he has these four points of balance that I've been talking about on so many of the podcasts over the last few months.

But that first one, just you have this solid but flexible sense of self, knowing who you are without needing others to tell you and learning how to not require or live for external validation.

And that then leads to the second point of balance where you have this quiet mind, this calm heart where you're able to self-soothe and you're able to manage your own anxiety, which then leads to this third point of balance, which is a more grounded response, which means not overreacting, not underreacting, but really starting to show up.

And then his fourth point of balance, it is owning your own part of a situation, not projecting it onto somebody else, not saying that, yeah, well, I behave this way because you did this, but owning my part and then taking responsibility for change. Because so often people can then say, no, my bad. But if you say, well, you're bad, what? Tell me more about that. They're saying, no, I said it was my bad. Or I run into this a lot where people in a session might say,

no, you know what? I really understand now. I just need to really, I just really need to be more serious about my efforts of whether it's turning away from unhealthy coping mechanisms or trying to show up different in a marriage. And they can say that. And it does feel good. And I believe in that moment, that person really does believe that this is what I need to do. And the person listening might even say, okay, cool. Cool. Sounds like you're really taking this serious.

But then the person feels so good about what they just said and how the other person's reacting that do they wake up the next day and do they start their meditation practice? Do they start journaling? Do they go to the gym? Do they read the self-help book? Do they schedule therapy? Or do they feel like, no, I actually feel pretty good now.

And is that just a way to alleviate that discomfort? So you have to get to this place of being fairly well differentiated to then act in this position of creating this crucible. And the reason why is because you have to be able to, and I got to come up with a better phrase, but it's almost as if, okay, I am willing to die on this hill of what I am willing to do. And I felt like this was one of those moments for me. Was I willing to die on this hill of Mackie potentially being upset with me?

If I got on a plane, flew to Utah and said, Hey, I'm coming to get you because I love you and I care about you and I'm worried about you. and I worry that you may not be in a position to make the right, a good decision right now. And I realized that I was, that was a place that I was willing to stake my claim. I was willing to face the discomfort, even if it meant that I flew right out there and had to turn right back around and fly home if she really didn't want my help.

And I couldn't complain about, do you know how much this cost me? Or no, I'm owning that. That was a me thing. So a few hours later, I was at the airport on a flight to Utah. Mackie picked me up and we drove across Nevada back to California through the early morning hours. She ended up just dropping me right off at my therapy office the next morning. And I did a nice full day of sessions and she was at home and that began her healing journey.

And during that drive, we had so many important conversations and Mackie, it didn't fix everything right away, but I think it was the right thing to do. And I'll admit that I was worried of what her commitment level would be like

because she felt so down about these things that she was finding out and what her last year or so had been. And that's on me because she has proven me wrong in the very best possible way. Spoiler alert, but she lost the 60 pounds. She transformed her life. She's currently exploring a healthy relationship and she's back to her bubbly self. Her humor is back in full force. She's exercising.

She's eating right. She's doing a lot of things that I have not even been able to do myself in thinking that I've got certain things. I'm in a good place in certain things. I mean, the eating alone has been fascinating watching her and her discipline. And we talk about that in the interview. So if you are in the midst of feeling like life is just too much, please, please listen to this interview.

Mackie talks about so many things that she did to make changes and how difficult those things were and how some things maybe weren't as difficult as she thought they would be. And if you're a parent, a partner, a loved one of somebody going through difficult times and you don't know what to do, I think this would be helpful as well because we touched on that too.

Just a quick heads up, there are a couple of moments where I think Mackie's mic is a little bit low, but hopefully that's mostly been addressed in post-production. But overall, the audio is good. And please check out the video on the Virtual Couch YouTube channel and hit subscribe, of course, and give it a watch because there's a part of the interview, that just cracked me up. I think it really needs to be seen. And don't forget to follow our podcast, The Mind, The Mirror, and Me.

And then check out some of the earlier episodes on there too, because there are some pretty incredible ones. So thanks for your patience. Thanks for taking the time to listen. I really appreciate each and every one of you. I really do. And with all that said, let's get to my interview with my daughter, McKinley Overbay. Music. I don't either. Is that your opening joke? No. I'm going to edit that out. I don't. What are we doing here? Welcome back. It's been a long time.

I don't even want to. I haven't even looked because I think it's been longer than I think it has. And I don't want to feel that. That sense of failure. Oh, it is not failure, Mackie. Welcome back to episode of The Virtual Couch and episode of The Mind, The Mirror, and Me. Exactly. I'm your host. No, if we're on The Virtual Couch, yeah, it depends. Dueling hosts. But it's been a while. We're broadcasting from a new location.

We got both our mics working. yeah that's kind of exciting both of our mics are working and we are in arizona, and you may hear dogs and or a baby right outside the office door try to figure out which one is. Um i do that i was gonna say this is your this is gonna be your show you prepared some things you posted an amazing post yesterday on the social medias and i felt bad because you said Oh, did you see the post? And I have, he said, no, I've kind of been absolutely not.

I am. I don't go to the social media very often, but yet that's really good. I don't know. It was better. Well, I'm not saying it like getting a hero, a hero, getting a trophy, a hero sandwich or a gold star or trophy. You want a hero sandwiches? Don't you really? I can go on a kid. Yeah, I know. I know it's a sandwich. I don't know what it is. Do you want to look at that? Do we look at the camera? Do we look at each other? I don't know. I don't either. It

has been a little while. But we moved to Arizona, what, three months ago? Something like that. And I have been negligent in my own consistency of podcasting. I've talked about that. I put out an episode or two of all the different ones, Virtual Couch, Wake Up Narcissism, Love ADHD, and we haven't put one of these out, but I've been so inconsistent and I always like to pride myself on consistency. But you're always yelling at me about it. Screaming at the top of my lungs.

So I've been poking you for quite a while saying, hey, do you want to do a podcast?

You're like get out of here old man whoa no right and then finally you're ready to oh but we started with the yeah i'm not trying to say i'm so cool i don't go on social media i get this i get a weird vibe here i do here i am talking about dealing with discomfort and stuff but then i don't know i get i i think i get a little uncomfortable with thinking i should be doing more or better but then i missed a really cool post of yours talk about that that's a good way to lead it in what was it

hurt my feelings i i kept checking to see i'm sorry you feel that way about doing the no it was a post about my disease you know what didn't we record one we recorded one i don't think we ever put it no it's one of the lost episodes when you found out about your disease yeah i'm diseased. But i'm okay maybe tell us about this disease tell us maybe tell them yeah back it up okay You're just diving in. I've done my work. Now it's up to you. You carry it.

If people have listened to our previous episodes, we put one out. I could not tell you how long ago. That was called Your Body is the Least Interesting Thing About You. Yeah. The overall concept was what? Your body is the least interesting thing about you. Okay. Is that what we're doing? No, but we talked about, I went there and listened to it because I honestly couldn't remember what we talked about.

And I was scared that then I would say things today that wouldn't, that would just completely contradict. Oh, right. And be like, that actually doesn't make sense. But we basically just talked about your body being the least interesting thing about you. Okay. But we talked about like your worth not being tied to your physical appearance. I remember this. Your size, your shape, that you're more than your body. And we talked about just like being true to who you are on the inside.

We talked a lot about how in high school I feel like I wouldn't answer questions truthfully because I was too... Yes. I didn't tell people my favorite food because I was embarrassed or my favorites. Like we talked about that, like just being who you are. Yeah. I know that this one did pretty well because I had people telling me, is that one the one we talked about? Is that the one where we talked about the like going to a movie and worrying

what the other person. Yes. That one got I talked about a lot. Yeah, that was that one. So if you haven't listened to it, listen to it. It was I liked it. Me too. Like it was one of our good ones. But basically, the gist was just like about loving yourself and that your worth is not tied to anything, but especially your body. But you are enough. Blah, blah. You kept throwing in you are enough. Oh, enough. Enough. Because we were talking Barbie movies. That's so funny.

I mean, at the time I thought I'll never stop saying Kenuff. And when you just said that, I'm like, why did I say that? What does that even mean? Kave, I almost want you to like get to the part where why is it so significant now that we're talking about it and this post on the social medias and all that? Yeah, so I can. So everything genuinely I did go back and listen to and everything I said in that episode and that you said in that episode still stands true. I still stand by it.

100%. Okay. Like everything we said was legit. Yeah. But since then, I have lost 55 pounds. I was going to say, let's do a drum roll. Oh, sorry. 55 pounds. Five pounds. That's like both our dogs combined and a sack of flour or something. I've lost that. Yeah. I found it, everybody. Thank you. So my body looks a lot different and I feel a lot different than I did when I was talking about that.

Which for whatever reason then just feels like i feel like i have a lot of new thoughts yeah perspectives about everything that has to do with all of this so i won't talk about it but also, because we kind of like accidentally scrapped that disease yeah nobody knows why and so i feel like i want to hit that too and i did when i posted what i posted yesterday okay.

I asked, or I put a little question box up if anyone has any questions, because I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of people about the weight loss journey and the health stuff and whatever. And you show me, you got a lot of, you got a lot of, you got a lot. I was impressed. Because everyone struggles. Yeah. With all the things all the time. Yeah. And when you're vulnerable, people. They respond.

Respond and it's tender and nice. Yeah. But so if I'm hearing you correctly, though, and I think I'm excited to hear this because it's your dad and as somebody that's been along watching you, that's the funny thing where sometimes I don't even want to point out what I'm noticing because I don't want you to think that I thought that you didn't look good before.

Or but some of the things that you've done that have so impressed me are honestly we we go out to eat a fair amount as a family maybe too much and then we moved to to a new new land and we're trying out the new restaurants all that stuff and you have not you don't cheat i know it's wild to me and what i just want to know did you ever did you know you would be successful at doing this weight loss journey okay because i've been trying to well yeah i feel like yeah totally so i don't even

know okay so basically i have an autoimmune disease called hashimoto's. And that led to hypothyroidism. And so that's what I got diagnosed with a couple of months ago. And prior to getting diagnosed, I basically, I seriously feel like it was two or three years where I was just very steadily gaining weight and it didn't matter.

Like you're still trying to work out. Yeah. Like obviously I could have been eating better and working out more or different or whatever, but I genuinely was working out five times a week probably.

And I was eating decent. like i wasn't eating crazy or anything and i could not lose the weight or if i did i'd lose two pounds and then plateau give it a week or two and i back up those pounds and their friends and i'm like we break mom and i's heart because you would get so frustrated frustrating because i was like i'm doing the work and i'm just gaining weight and i didn't feel like myself and i was so tired all the time like i don't know how much we talked i like no i could not get

through the the day without at least a nap i know you when you come home and stuff you would nap a lot not worse i and i it wasn't a genuine like all day sometimes and i was just no matter what if i slept for two hours or 12 i didn't put that part together i was so tired and it was so frustrating because i didn't know what to do about it and i didn't i felt like i had no options because i don't drink caffeine because anxiety like crazy and so i just felt

so i don't know what to do and i was like why is this happening to me why does everybody else function and i cannot do that And then I also tied a lot of those things. I was like, it must just be like my depression. That's why I can't get out of bed. That's why I'm so tired. And so I kind of just overlooked the fatigue part of it. Man. And then I had a lot of other like random little symptoms, but nothing that was.

Some throat stuff. And I mean. So many things. Yeah. Nothing that was like, I need to go to the doctor right now. But a lot of things where I just didn't feel good. I never felt good ever for years. Yeah. But I just got to a point where I was like, I guess this is. This is what I feel. Yeah. This is it. And so anyways, then went to.

Freaking gynecology appointment i would say i don't remember what okay yeah for the first time in my life because you have to when you are a lady i still don't really know what those are but don't talk about it no no hey go ahead but anyways and my and i just like figured i'd throw it out there and i just told my doctor like i've had a really hard time with weight gain and i'm tired all the time and blah blah and she immediately was like oh

let's check your thyroid and i was like well i'm not gonna do anything like because at that point i was so convinced i was just doing everything wrong like i wasn't working hard enough and whatever so anyway she checked my thyroid and immediately was like your numbers are crazy this is not normal get on these medications do these things and long story short then after lots of so many doctors like i've never i went to more doctor's appointments in the span of a month than i did my entire life

genuinely i have a funny bit here though to work in so i remember when you called about that and we were we were like oh my gosh it sounds so bad and serious and stuff and your mom and i had just gone down not too long ago and alex was getting her graduating from like radiology school and so the thing that she could check was our thyroids yeah and i don't remember this funny part but she told me my thyroid should be like a thyroid model and it's like and you're telling me yours

is like here's right and and one of alex's friends was there and they showed us hers when we saw that and it's like she saw mine i didn't know what thyroid was and it's like oh well apparently that's a good one and then she's like yeah look at the look at my friends and then it was like just a. Shredded pieces of whatever that is what i have that disease that was crazy realistically by the time i'm 30 i like that really have a thyroid i'm ready

to donate mine no but that's so kind of you but anyways so we'll we'll touch on that but also focusing more on the losing the weight and prioritizing health and just like how that's gone. But because the thing is, like we said in the other episode we did, you are exactly enough as you are at any size. For sure. Like genuinely, that is so true. And I believe that wholeheartedly. Yeah. And losing weight will not solve all your problems.

You know, it feels like it will for people that struggle. But it won't solve all your problems. And it's important, I think, to love yourself at every stage of life.

Being human and what that means for your body and everything you were trying i mean i think you were doing a good job of where you were at though trying to that's that was the whole reason we did the episode yeah just trying to love myself the way that i was you know i didn't feel great yeah um because i did i i was enough yeah 55 pounds ago and i'm still enough right now and i will be enough if i gained it all back you know and that i still believe that and that's true yeah Yeah.

But in this whole thing for me, I feel like I've learned that wanting to be healthy and take care of your body is totally a good thing. Okay. Like it's such a good thing and you're allowed to make changes for your body and you're allowed to want to be healthier.

And I feel like, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's more being a girl thing or maybe you'll feel it too, but it's like I do feel like there's weird things i guess stigma is almost just around anything you talk about body wise oh for sure like it's almost shifted i feel like i feel like on tiktok and stuff i see like if girls are promoting.

Losing weight or working out or eating healthy people attack them a little bit and it's like you shouldn't be telling people they have to do this or you shouldn't whatever and it's like i get what you're saying if you're going way to the extremes but you're allowed to want to be healthy and so people want to they can find people that can help yes yeah like those people aren't evil do it no yeah it's okay to like do the things yeah to take care of your body and it's not, all bad so i feel like

that's just an interesting thing and so it has been weird and like vulnerable to post about weight loss because i i fear that people will think i'm saying like yeah like you almost post things and then people think you're you're looking down on other people right yeah no i'm not you're perfect the way you are yeah this is just my experience yeah this is I like that. Because the thing is, I feel better.

Like looks aside yeah i feel better and can you like quantify that or or because i think sometimes, ended that was that process so gradual that it's it was difficult to tell along the way or pretty quickly did you start feeling better or how can you like how do you i know that you know it but how do you yeah i know i feel like it seriously was a couple weeks and it was like, i just started to feel i think one of the questions someone asked was about like my relationship with

food okay and how that's changed yeah and we've talked about that yeah i did not know how gross i felt because i'm so used to it talk about that because i i when you told me that i used that with some clients and there wasn't a person i don't think that didn't reason or that didn't resonate with yeah it was so interesting because i did i made a lot i changed my entire diet like you really did completely changed it which we can get into more of that but

i I completely changed what I was eating and like what I'm putting into my body and how much water I'm drinking and all the little things that have to do with diet. And I don't feel gross anymore. If I do, I was telling you the other day, I was like, I'm just going to get Taco Bell because like. Right. You did it one time. Within 10 minutes, I was so miserable. Like I was so uncomfortable.

I was just like, this feels awful. And that's what I felt like all the time because I was just not eating good things for my body.

Yeah and so i do i don't even remember what you asked but i feel like well is there like how's it quantifiable so you that's so easy when you just don't feel gross little things that i see yeah like i feel different little dumb things tying my shoes so much easier okay yeah shaving my legs so much easier yeah wiping my butt okay easier i appreciate that yeah yeah like my body i still

want to get a bidet though live your dream okay you love bidets i do. Hey, but all those little things, I appreciate that so much. So many little things. And then the, what was wild to me was, and I think I saw one of the questions where somebody asked about, did you go cold turkey with the food? And talk about that. I kind of did. You did. And I was so blown away. More so to fear though. Oh, I see. I was so afraid of what was happening to my body.

I was like, I need to change something right now or I'm going to die. Which wasn't true, but that's kind of what it felt like. Yeah. What's wild though, is I've worked with enough people though, where they say that, oh yeah, if that would happen, then I would change and they don't. Yeah. So that's why I think in the back of my mind, I was still. It did it for me. Yeah. Because I've been trying to lose weight for three years or whatever. And then that was enough.

But yeah, like just overall, I think prioritizing my health and taking care of myself has been such a good reminder that we only get one body. Yeah. Like we have one body. This is the thing that carries us through this life. Yeah.

And you, I mean, obviously there are things that are out of our control, but you have have a decent say in a lot of aspects of how you're going to feel day to day and how what your body's going to look like and how it's going to feel and how it's going to function, and so it's like why would you not take care of it yeah why would you not put in the effort to because you're worth that effort you know i think so i mean i do i was talking with a client just a couple of weeks ago that just they just

turned 40 and they were talking about how well now it's all downhill and i just want to say hey i'm right here in front of you and i'm like 14 years older than you and I refuse to stop crying it doesn't have to it doesn't again I know things are out of our control but it doesn't have to just be this awful thing and I do think to some extent I had kind of given up in that way where I'm like this is just what it is I'm never gonna like my body again I'm never gonna feel calm like I was just like

I've tried yeah that's it so I, I don't know how to. But that cold turkey vibe, though, is it was I mean, it was noticeable, too, right away. And you you when you moved out here, you came home for a little bit in California and then just started to really try to get yourself put together, I guess, in a sense. And I'd been on medication a little bit there to stabilize thyroid stuff. Yeah. Which I think did something.

And then moved out here to Arizona. And you just I feel like you've done an amazing job of just making it your almost a part time job or of. It is. Right. right? Getting sleep and eating right and hydrating and exercise, a lot of exercise and all that. So I'm sure we'll talk about that too. Yeah. But anyways, all of that, basically, it's okay to want to take care of your body. And I think it's okay to admit that, that you want to feel good and look good. I think that's fair.

And I think what you're saying too, that I'm a big no shame therapist guy person.

So I just want to, yeah, giving people permission that it's okay to to really want it and then also you're really the only person that knows deep inside this is not meaning to sound shameful of if you are showing up as your best self and i think that's where i work with plenty of people that it's pretty liberating when they can finally admit to themselves at time if this is the case where they're saying i know i'm not giving it my best effort yeah yeah side note yeah

one of the peloton instructors that i really like yeah always says a thing where she goes she says i'm not going to tell you to like be your best self right now i'm going to tell you to be your favorite self and there's some stuff that i love yeah she'll tell she's like if you she's like if i ask you what your best self look looks like you probably don't really know exactly what that is but if i ask you what your favorite ice cream flavor is or your favorite like all these little things

you have an answer and so you can prioritize just wanting to be your favorite version of you because you know what that feels like you know i don't want to hijack this episode all but i have to tell you i'm two-thirds of the way through i'm I'm doing an episode on the virtual couch about your reflected sense of self. And I traced it back to this psychologist back in the early 1900s. And he talks about this looking glass self.

And I'll just go through this because I think it's so interesting what you just said. It's this guy named Cooley. And so he said, the looking glass self is the process through which people develop their self-concept based on their understanding of how others perceive them. And the process is three components. One is imagining how we appear to others. So we contemplate how we think we are seen by others. Two is in imagining the judgment of that appearance.

So we imagine how others are judging us based on our appearance or behavior of what we think that people think we're doing. And then the third one is then we develop feelings around ourselves based on these judgments. So we assume that we know what other people see in us.

Then we imagine how they're judging us based off of what we think that they see. And then our feelings follow based on the judgments, based on what We think that, so I just said, there's so many variables there that are so getting in the way of who you really are.

Just so it's wild yeah it shouldn't have to be like that so then it just says he says yeah it's it suggests our self-esteem and self-worth are influenced by how we believe others view us and and i was just saying that's normal but i think having a healthy understanding of that's the process that we go through helps you then untangle yourself from that process yeah like yeah i'm trying to think of some a segue for this but i don't have one but read a little thing i but just said you

are more than just a body you are a soul nourish both and that to me was like i feel like that embodies everything that i'm trying to yeah say here like the point i'm trying to make because i think that that's it and i think there is it is like a balance that you are more than just your body but your body is what carries your soul so they work together pretty well and i I think you need to nourish, you need to nourish because your soul is everything.

Like your soul, that, that is who you are. That is, that is the big thing, but your body is what carries the vessel that carries it. It really is safe and allows it to be exactly what it is. And so I think in nourishing our soul, we have to care for our body and through nourishing our body, we are caring for our soul. So I do think it is like hand in hand. And I don't think you can just do one and like be fine.

Let's just have noticed you've been reading more. I don't know if you've been meditating. I have. Okay. Good for you. I'm going to reduce my stress levels.

Okay. But yeah, so I just feel like it's all tied together. And I feel like I felt that so strongly through the last couple months because it has been more than just exercising. Right. And it's different. It is like way deeper than that. But yeah, so that's, those are some of my takes. I dig it. What's been the hardest thing food-wise, honestly? Well, okay. That's the kind of the funny thing because I went gluten-free and then I'm on like a low acid diet.

And I even drink water that there's just. I drink alkaline water. Yeah. Which I still don't understand. PH something. Sure. But the thing that I've been shocked by is that the longer it's been since I've had certain foods, the less I want them.

Like i really thought there'd be a time that i would never be able to go without taco bell yeah and i don't want it i don't like i don't want it no offense to mr bell he did you right right for a long time for so long but i just don't want it and i don't crave foods like that anymore it's weird because i feel like people are lying when they say i was gonna say can i just float this out there i don't yeah you haven't in a long time i occasionally i'm like i could go for

some and then if i drink it it burns and like this isn't fun anymore it's not that good burn that Did I like? No. So that's been interesting. Well, then also I, so I come from this place of what do we do with our discomfort? And so it's uncomfortable to, I think even the time you spend meal prepping. Yeah. Is I think one of the reasons why people just go to fast food or. It's a lot. And you have been so patient with that. And I don't understand where that comes from.

It's fear. Okay. Okay. It's not like, like how do you motivate it? Yes.

Weird. because i'm sitting there like getting whatever and then you're cutting up your potatoes and a couple times you've made me i really like when you make me like the chicken and avocado or potato thing and you're like oh yeah it'll be ready about 45 minutes i'm like okay i'm good yeah oh my gosh okay i think well i think i just have the question let's do it yeah speed around that yeah yeah okay lots of people wondering what the autoimmune disease is

yeah ashimoto's thyroid And I don't know enough about it. It's basically my body with any autoimmune disease, your body is attacking itself essentially. So for whatever reason, my body has decided that my thyroid is an intruder and is sending antibodies to attack it. To attack it. So like your white blood cell count was up for no reason or something like that. Just weird things because it's just like attacking my thyroid, even though my thyroid is just chilling.

Yeah, I say not cool body. And so then because of that, my thyroid has become underactive. So it doesn't produce enough of what it's supposed to. And I don't know if you knew this, but the thyroid kind of runs like the whole show. So I only learned that in my therapy world where a hyper and hypo is underperforming. Like you just said, hyper is over and hyper can almost mimic symptoms of anxiety and ADHD and hypo can be depressive, depressive, right?

Yes. Okay. And so it's just, it literally, your thyroid is connected to seriously basically every system in the body. Like your heart and your lungs and your nervous system. Like both, like seriously all of it. It's deeply connected. And so if your thyroid is not functioning the way that it's supposed to, it affects so many things. Like so many random things. like how you tolerate temperatures and like just so like bizarre things that you would not think.

It affects yeah because it's just this little thing and like sitting in your throat so it doesn't seem like it no that would right i just about it if you're not if it's not broken i just said can you explain hashimoto's disorder to someone with a middle school level of education to go to my best

friend chat gpt so this will be interesting it says sure hashimoto's disorder also known as hashimoto's thyroiditis is a condition where the body's immune system mistakenly attacks the thyroid gland the thyroid is a small butterfly-shaped gland in your neck it's not small no anymore and it makes hormones that help control many important functions in your body like your metabolism how your body uses energy growth and development when somebody has hashimoto's their immune system thinks the

thyroid is a threat and attacks it this can damage the thyroid and make it produce fewer hormones when the thyroid doesn't make enough hormones it can cause symptoms like feeling very tired gaining weight having dry skin feeling cold even when others are warm and feeling sad or depressed wow i nailed it you did i was really scared you're gonna read it i I know, right? No, it's so, yeah. It's so wild, Mac. And then there's just a million little

symptoms that you would never even know are tied to it. And it's just crazy. So that's what I deal with. And your numbers can fluctuate a lot, which sucks. Like even on a medication. I know. Do you know what impacts that? No, honestly. I don't know the nitty gritty things. But yeah, so that's what I have. Hey, Mac, do you want to see what's fun? I said, can you give me a limerick about a girl named Mackie who has this? There once was a girl named Mackie whose thyroid was feeling quite wacky.

Her hormones ran low, but with meds in tow, she's now full of energy, not slacky. I mean, amen.

Oh my gosh. Okay, next one. How did you know something was wrong and needed to get yourself checked out on? Which this one I have a few thoughts on because... At now that I have, I'm like, I should have just gone to the doctor sooner when I. Mom and I told you like all the time. Oh, did we do? Oh, okay. No, you never did. I bet we did it once or twice. You never did. But I think that I just like, side note, I think if you feel like you are not

yourself and that something is off and something is wrong, you are worth like. Go get it picked out. Getting the answers because there is a chance that there is something wrong. I don't know if I told you, Mac, in grad school, whenever you would do a role play for, what am I, therapy, therapist? It was always like you would get points knocked off if you first didn't say to the pretend person, hey, when's your last medical checkup?

That's crazy because I've been dealing with anxiety and depression since I was 14 and I've never had a doctor say, let's check your hormone level. I know.

Let's check something. thing so even just since you well yeah since you've had this happen i've learned about what is perimenopause and the and it's that's about hormones yeah and then the thyroid stuff and so real it's so it affects you or pmdd there's all kinds of okay that all and because i think they're they're kind of all hormone people did you see that you almost died okay that was,

that okay please go watch the youtube video everybody that was a setup just so that people would watch the youtube video no no actually what's kind of cool is my adrenaline is not even there's your meditation for you i caught that because normally if a balloon pops you oh yeah balloons are still gonna freak me out yeah balloons and large dogs but boy microphones that was crazy though that was kind of a lot thank you please go we won't even tell you go Go watch the YouTube video.

Hey. Is that what I'm talking about? Oh, doctor. Yeah. If you think something's wrong. Here. Can you hold my microphone? I'll put this back on. But I... Like I knew something was off, but I didn't really like even listen to myself, which sucks. So listen to yourself. Did you ever? I mean, no. How would you have known it would be anything like this? Hormones or. That's the thing. I seriously just assumed I wasn't doing the work right. Like that's what my that's where my mind went.

Which is. Well, I think what's unfair, honestly, Mac, and I'm not trying to say that we would sit there, mom, and I'd be like, she's not really doing the work. But it's like you feel so bad that you want to even as a parent, you want to say something like, hey, are you for sure? Because it's like I see the work you're doing. So you must not be in the times that I don't see you. Right. And I was like, I'm doing it. I'm doing the things.

So that was always frustrating. And I wanted to when I got diagnosed, I seriously wanted to like broadcast it to everyone. Yeah. In my life, even though nobody would actually it doesn't it doesn't matter. But I seriously want to be like, it made me want to go, you guys, it was my thyroid. I was doing the work. Like I told you that I was working out. I was eating good.

Well, full transparency though. Weren't you saying though that you got to a point, like maybe as you got feeling worse that you would just like eat one meal a day and stuff like that. Okay. So like. Super unhealthy. But that was like after you already felt like I'm not, it doesn't matter what I do. Okay. Because for a long time you would start doing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Giving up and then trying hard yeah but when i was saying i was doing the work i was doing the work yeah and you kept exercising throughout the whole thing and it's funny because that's in my mind it's just well as long as you exercise you'll be fine right and so that's why i felt bad yeah for real yeah um okay

how long did it take to get my diagnosis it i mean all in all it was probably like two months like being it was immediately like you have hypothyroidism but then it was a little little bit later more blood work that then was when the acid thing that thing you have is a whole different thing right possibly yeah i don't know okay i'm not sure um okay how is your life easier and how is it harder since getting your diagnosis.

Easier because answers yeah it is good to have answers like i was i was able to say that even when i first got diagnosed yeah when i was like miserable and it was awful and i was so scared and i was like i don't know what to do with this information but and like just overwhelmed with all of it i was like okay there's an answer like that is why yeah these things are happening and easier because then it opened up this all these doors of like here are things you can actually do,

about it yeah but in that same breath that is how it's gotten harder because i've been had to do the thing you did and you kept doing i can't not i can't tell you to do them like it's i've had to put in that work and so that because i know if i don't i like i know what will happen and so i have to put in the work i think about even just the simple thing like my favorite bar which they would sponsor is nugo bars and they're like they it seems like they're they're everything in them is wholesome

and wonderful, and you eat the ones that don't have chocolate. And I know, I feel like every time I say, well, Mac, they're like so good, though, for you. I'm sure you could sneak one of these bad boys in, and you have resisted. Don't do it. You don't do chocolate. I can't. I'm not supposed to. Gosh, I don't get it. Okay, then how did you start? Did you just change and go cold turkey? Okay. So yeah, kind of, I did. Which I know is...

Difficult because if you're not in a position where you're scared of like medical things for real man and you don't have that motivation it's like i i truthfully don't know what to say to be like yeah just do it like it's gonna be great do it but it's worth and i don't want to sound like i don't want to sound dismissive to anybody but i again from my therapist chair is i would call it like the scared straight theory so literally what it is yeah that's what and i think that's got a

it's got a it's got a runway or shelf life like i'll have people get caught i mean honestly by police or something with stuff that they shouldn't or you name it and then all of a sudden it's like oh they they they say i will never do it again and they really mean it but then it's like once that like oh initial scared straight wears off so then i think one of the big keys is once you get once you're scared then you have to actually put in

the work because if you just say i'll never do it again all you're doing is alleviating your discomfort but it's then taking uh the effort to change that is the key right and you jumped right in and did that and so i did i made like a lot of little changes right at the start because i was so overwhelmed with everything but i did like just started drinking more water i stopped drinking soda i changed my meals like immediately i stopped eating out for the most part like started

cooking things started cooking a lot oh you baked how many things have you baked that you have not enjoyed honestly like you your trial and error is amazing that's i went gluten-free and so i've tried to make so many.

Gluten-free things and it's i've been so impressed with you though you're doing that i've tried i just like immediately started trying things and i did try to like kind of make it fun yeah and make it like okay i get to like learn these things and i get to and you tried so many in the kitchen and i get to like do these things and that i think made a difference but so it's like yes i did go cold turkey but i know that that's not the most realistic thing

but i do think the little changes are because it is making lifestyle changes like it's not just doing something for a month and then being done with it it's being so consistent okay okay and then i can't say this enough but that is the concept of if we're just do if you're just doing it to alleviate your discomfort it will not last no but if you're to be like this yeah it really does changes and feel better and so then even when you're doing it and now all of

a sudden i don't want to do it anymore there's the the discomfort so now i have to a growth comes through that discomfort well because i've i've kind of hit a point the last like two weeks where i i do not want to work out i don't i don't want to do it i'm over it i hate it i'm like just in a little rut with it and i don't want to do it but i show up and i do it anyway you did we work we were gym buddies yesterday in the garage gym and you still did like an hour

on the treadmill or whatever you know the five minute one. It's just this little thing. It's like you drop some on the ground. You have five minutes before you need it. That was seconds, but okay. We've changed it to five minutes. Okay. No, it's just, if there's ever anything you don't want to do, just commit to five minutes. Oh, I like that. Like just get on the treadmill for five minutes. And genuinely, if after five minutes you are so done, you can get off.

But 90% of the time, you're going to keep going. You know, back in my ultra running days, you had like a just one more mile rule. Okay. Yeah. And it was like, even if you had to walk another mile, then before you know it, you're five, six, seven more down the road. Yeah. So that's been. That's interesting. Even like cooking things too. Like just to be like, just start. And probably in five minutes, you'll be like, fine. That's a great rule.

It's a great rule. It's really helpful when you don't have motivation. You don't want to do things. Okay. Best way to bring down inflammation in the body. Where to start losing weight.

Hashimoto's is all about inflammation. your whole body is inflamed basically and that's a big part of the why you're supposed to cut out gluten and why i have cut out gluten you've said that that alone you think is this game changer bodies like don't know how to process i've heard of that but dairy why is it so yummy though.

I can't have ideas i know but so that cutting out gluten seriously like i mean within two weeks of doing that like my face had changed like mine like my wasn't bloated i wasn't like all these these things i just felt a lot better that bloated thing i mean i know that feeling yes and that for me gluten and dairy 100 so cutting those things out is great for that and just even if you do that initially so you start feeling better and

then you're a little bit more motivated i think to keep doing the things and then you start to lose the weight and then you're like this is kind of fun seeing the results and then you want to keep going yeah um i don't know where to start losing I don't know if that means literally where, because if you mean literally where you can't, you cannot spot reduce, which I do think is important. If you're trying to like make changes in your body, it's important to know you can't pick and choose.

Yeah i was saying i know that i've heard that that is frustrating for some people because you want you're like i want my arms to be smaller yeah you know yeah just my butt's disappearing a bit kind of a bummer but oh yeah you're you just start and it falls off where it wants to um because you use a certain program for exercise and eating peloton through and through we are peloton we are we have the treadmill the rower and the bike and then we do the outdoor

or we do all the workouts on the apps. You don't even need the thing. I do the meditation through it. That has changed my life. I literally use Peloton every single day. Yeah. That has been the most motivating thing as far as like exercising goes. Are you friends on Peloton? I don't think we are. Why is that? I don't think we are. I think I've probably tried to friend you like a thousand times. That's so not true. Don't trust me right now.

But then eating, no. I didn't do anything. Do you do the weight tracker? Do you do the calorie app thing? Kind of against that. Okay. I think it's unhealthy. I had a fun new bit with that with, because, you know, moms does it every single day. And I, I got, I do have like, I did it for a little bit and I do feel like I got a good idea of like, this is how many calories these things are. Yeah. And then moving forward, I just was like mindful of that, but I don't log them.

Yeah. I do use that app that I use it just to track my weight. Okay. It gives you fun graphics every time you lose five pounds. Oh, I do not know that about the app. It's where I said I lost five bowling balls. Oh, no, I'm saying I've never experienced that. Thank you. And every time I started up again, every couple of weeks, it's like you again. It does. And it's funny because it kind of sent my change.

It's like, so do you want to try anything new? Are you going to pretend that like the other stuff will work?

And I was like, no, I think the other stuff will still work. gosh yeah but yeah it said you lost five bowling balls bowling balls it gives you fun little things like that which is crazy like think about running i think about that all the time with you because your times are kind of getting back down to 55 pound backpack on no that was my life isn't that crazy it really is i think i told you um one of my friends who is a doctor and i was talking about losing

weight to help my meniscus problem yeah and he had said that every pound was was at four pounds of pressure yeah

so yeah so like when you and you were at 50 at that point and so it was like 200 pounds of pressure per don't really bother me anymore that's pretty wild for real because you used to have some of that pain so i was i would limp around after yeah and i was just like oh she's making that up you know no you're making yours up okay okay start that i wasn't really oh my gosh okay uh did you find meditation helpful 100 i don't do it enough actually this This could be a whole episode probably.

But I realized something with meditation that I need you to therapize me. I will. I'm really bad at being consistent. I'm really bad at meditating when I feel good. I typically only meditate when I'm in full-blown panic mode. So I think I've associated it with being panicked. And so if I feel good and I meditate, I get scared. That is so, it's normal. So it will, shockingly, just to do it every day.

You keep doing it. Yeah. And it's funny that meditation app, when I look on the Peloton app or not meditation app, the Peloton app, it was wild how quickly that went. And if I look, I think I'm at now 400, uh, meditations and that was within a year because once you really start doing it, I mean, if I have five extra minutes, I want to do it when I'm feeling good. And so that's why, so we, we, we form these like relational frames.

So it's like anxiety, meditate, feel good. Don't. And that is, that is the time to do it because that's what I was saying earlier of when, yeah. Cause when we feel like when I feel bad and I want to alleviate my discomfort, then I will meditate.

That's great. but then once my my discomfort is gone then i'm like no i'm good i don't need to worry about it and that is when i i have my men's group tonight that we did this uh wednesday nights and that's for people that are struggling with turning to unhealthy coping mechanisms and and i will often say that it's that story of you know this is the last time i'm ever going to do it act out or whatever and the person i believe in that moment believes it so then they feel like okay

no i'm good and so then they wake up the next day and like i don't have to do anything different because is I get it now. Like I'm good. And I do that. And, you know, people do that over and over and over again. And people do it in couples relationships as a couples therapist where they fight, they withdraw. Somebody pops their head back out and says, hey, are we good? And everyone's like, yeah, because we want to alleviate our discomfort. And then once they're like, OK, cool.

And then they come in and say to me in therapy, no, we're good. We're OK now. And that's where I started saying the absence of bad does not mean good. Right. And so that that concept is when we feel better, we think, no, I'm I'm really and we believe it like I'm good. So so that's where I think the meditation, even if and the Peloton has a little five minute ones. So it's like even if you just do that every day because you're trying to create a new relational frame that it's like I do it daily.

I mean, this morning I get back from my run and the first thing I do is I, you know, I just I go out there and I meditate outside, which has been phenomenal. Yeah. And then I'll usually try to throw a little one in the middle of the day.

And then last night i did one before i went to bed i mean it's it's amazing mac yeah i really do think it helps and not even obviously i'm not great at it but i do it sometimes but even just like i will just do little breathing that like yeah okay it's on the live list where i just do my in for four hold oh yeah yeah and i'll do that even if it's just for like a minute yeah but just trying to ground myself a little bit um and i just think i think lowering your stress levels and

your anxiety levels not fixes but it gives you the pause and allows you to yes yeah and we talked about that better yeah other ways on the live I think we were talking about by the way um Mackie joined me on a tiktok live to 10,000 of our friends uh and we'll be doing that again probably this won't go out until after we've done it again but then we'll do another one I think maybe Sunday night when people get this maybe.

Um, but, but I just, I think give me 30 seconds to say that meditation, I want to say this every single time is not about stopping your thoughts. It's not about clearing your mind. It's about changing your relationship with thoughts. So when you are, you are thinking and ruminating and worrying and wondering, and then you do some in through the nose, out through the mouth breathing.

And then at that point, then when you stop doing that, your brain will go right back to thinking and ruminating and worrying. And then you come back to the breathing and the present. And it is that doing that over and over again, your brain starts to, because your emotions travel, some believe, two and a half times faster than your logic. So you're having this emotional reaction, and then you're thinking about things.

So what you're doing with meditation is you're learning to lower your resting heart rate, which allows you to have more of a pause before your heart rate elevates. If your heart rate elevates, your cortisol levels spike, and then you get into that amygdala hijack. And so if you aren't meditating, you aren't sleeping, you aren't hydrating, you aren't exercising, then your startle response, so to speak, is like right on the edge.

So then it can be the smallest thing and your heart rate just elevates and your

cortisol floods your brain and you go right into fight or flight. So the daily meditation, the daily mindfulness practice is absolutely about over time, lowering your resting heart rate and then training your body that as soon as your heart rate starts to elevate, you're going to, I mean, you square off your shoulders, you get grounded. And it's like you will do that without even knowing you're doing it. So that's the goal, if that makes sense.

Well, side note, my heart rate a couple months ago was sitting steady between 70 and 80 all the time because I was so anxious and so on edge. And so not well, and now I sit at about a 55. Okay, I'm about 56, 57. And then when I'm doing the meditating, yeah, that's the ultimate goal. This morning I got back from a run, and so I was like, oh, because it was 100 million degrees here at eight, or is it four in the morning?

And so my goal now has been to try to see how low I can get my heart rate right after a run in the heat. And so that's a fun game to play versus the should I meditate, you know?

Yeah yeah so there's little the little things and like you're saying where it is like it's your sleep and it's yeah like your water intake and like all these little things they do make a big difference and it's hard to see that initially but if you stick with it you will notice yeah that like you are feeling better and things are okay and all that um okay i feel like already how did you find motivation to start fear fear absolutely terrified um did you have help to To lose the weight,

like a shot or a pill, anything like that. Oh, no. I see. Your dad's motivation. My dad motivated me. Did you think about that? I mean, I remember wanting to even bring up to you some of those. I was about at the point where I was like, I need intervention here. Like, I need something to happen here because nothing's changing. I will say, though, I do need to give credit to my thyroid medication because I do think that's what's helped my metabolism be more normal.

Gotcha. where then obviously i'm working out more and i've changed my diet completely but i do think, part like i feel like i have to say that to anyone that because i'm like it's not like yes you can do the things and turns out if you're if the things in your body are balanced it really is less calories yeah yeah that really is the formula like genuinely that's it's as simple as that even though you don't it's hard to say that when you're doing that it feels like nothing's happening yeah but

if the other things are balanced so it's like once i got my thyroid a little bit more balance it really did come down to calorie in calorie out and some movement literally yeah it's like that's as simple as it was um okay we already kind of talked about food relationship changing we're basically genuinely food to me now is like it's fuel i would love that yeah there's still times i'm like i would really want that and i really and i let myself have certain things like.

Moderation leverage but i do think you shouldn't restrict things i think that yes where i've had to make gluten-free options and do silly things like that but i think you should eat what you want to eat still um any advice for someone consistently working out but not disciplined with diet which unfortunately i feel like you have to be disciplined i know i was gonna say i will tell this person the good news is you're working out but the reality is there

has to be an acceptance that okay now that i have this base of working out that now i need to slowly move into diet and i'm not one that is good at this that's i'm an ultra runner for 25 years so as long as you run on a dozen miles a day you can eat whatever you want but now that i'm not running in a dozen miles yeah after 20 years i ate a bowl ice cream every single night oh and some nights they would double down if i did like 15 miles or so or 20 on

a saturday then but it's like i think that that one's one where i think it just give yourself grace continue to give yourself props for exercise and then slowly start to add in the diet yeah it's hard it is hard but i do think there is the stupid, it's kind of the 80-20, 80-diet-20 working out thing. And that there is truth to that, unfortunately. Yeah, there is. The way they say abs are created in the kitchen. I hate that. I hate that. Yeah, it sucks so bad, but there really is truth to that.

So I do think that, but there are so many benefits to working out where it's like, that's still a good thing. And you should still be proud of yourself or even if that's all you're doing. Um, okay. We're almost done. How, oh, that just more, how do you stay motivated? I feel like I do well for a while and then fizzle out, which that's what I was in a cycle of doing for so long.

And I do feel like there's this, I've reached this level of like, there is a self love thing in there that maybe we can even do a whole other type of thing on.

On no for real but i think that when you really look inward and and view your worth and your value and like love your soul and who you are you realize that you are so worth the effort yeah and i think that's a huge part of it where again like i'm saying where it's like even when i don't want to show up i show up because i do care about myself yeah you know and that does kind of help i think that was the thing you should listen to your

body and there are days that i don't work out like If there are days where I'm like, today's, it's not a big day and that's okay. I remember we were having a conversation when we were just hanging out at the pool that one day about like, I was talking to you about the concept of being differentiated too, is that once I recognize that I don't need someone else to tell me I'm okay.

Yeah. It's also a lot easier to stay grounded when people are maybe not treating you as kindly or people are trying to criticize you. And if you're good with yourself, then you're not even reacting saying you can't say that or whatever. It's like, okay, those are words you're saying because I'm good. Yeah. And so I think that self-love thing is really important. Yeah. And so I do feel like I've through this whole thing.

Yeah. It's like, I have had to look inward a lot and I have had to put in the time and spend a lot of time with myself in doing that. And so I do just think that, but also freaking Peloton, the Peloton instructors. I love it. Yeah. They're, they're good. They're good. They just say things that like a lot of that. Yes, you can. But they do, They say so many things like that and about like, you are worth this effort. Yeah, I know. I love it too. I do. I think it's so great. I do.

I feel like that has, I've heard it so many times now because of how many classes I've taken that I just, it's kind of, I'm like, yeah, I am. It's always like, if you think you can't, you can. Yeah, I can. And sometimes they go, you can. And I'm like, no, I can't. Right. And start crying. Okay. Last question was, how do you keep staying positive with your diagnosis? Is this the part you're talking about your dad? Yeah. I want to see. Back when I was a kid.

No, I think just, I kind of said something about this in that post that I did, but just the, like embracing, which is a lot of your acceptance stuff here, embracing the fact that you really, you cannot control what life makes at you. Life's lifing all over you, Mac. It will. It's going to life crap out of you. Yeah. And like that can suck in a lot of ways, but it just is. And I think if you can accept that, then it's like,

I don't have a say in what life's going to throw at me. I didn't have a say in getting this autoimmune disease. Yeah. But I have a say in how I'm going to react. Yeah, exact words. And what's I'm going to take and what's going to come next. And that's what I've done. I have taken that because there is the thing where I feel like mom is the one that says or has talked to me about this.

But if you quit and you give up and you decide to just be negative and go in the corner and whatever you know exactly what the outcome is yep every time you know exactly what that's going to look like and feel like and it sucks but if you try if you even try to like do something good with the situation you open up all these doors and then there's room for all these possible outcomes that could be so good and they're uncertain and you don't know but it's better than the

one you know well it's funny and you're right mom's i don't now it's not like well i said.

Right oh no no i'm not but i just i remember when when your uh cousin connor was here and we were sitting around on a saturday and it was actually mom saying okay let's go visit this uh like ghost town or whatever remember that yeah and then and then yeah because we were saying that if you if we sit here even if we're not not enjoying it we know what sitting around another saturday at our house is going to feel like but we didn't know what going to a cool ghost

town and doing in the zip line and it was dope it was so fun it really was yeah but yeah so i just think like we i think i've been able to obviously i had my moments like we didn't go i need to find that episode we recorded because we talked more about the interesting parts of it and how awful the actual diagnosis was and how scary it was and how it was like actually horrible but i think just yeah except it like kind of in that acceptance that it is what it is

basically and i get to choose if I want to be that person that hides behind it and lets it be my identity or if I want to live the life I want to live regardless yeah and so it's like I think that we can take those take the setbacks that are thrown at us and we can let them crush us and we can be miserable or we can just try and it's better to try yeah I don't want to sound mean with it but it's like you do have that's where you

have the choice yeah that is the choice right there um but yeah so then to kind of circle back, I guess, back to your body is the least interesting thing about you. Our bodies are so capable of changing and adjusting. And I think like as humans, we are so resilient, like by nature. Real. That's just how we work. We are made to adapt in our brain. I was going to say the brain, I was saying the same thing, Mac.

And that's so real. And so it's like we are resilient and we bounce back in all the things. And so even though our bodies are the least interesting things about us and about who we are, they are really cool. Yeah. And they do a lot for us. And so it's okay to want to value that. And it's okay to put the time in to yourself to work on that. And work on yourself and be who you want to be. Taking care of yourself, both mind and body. Because you are worth the changes and you are worth the effort.

You are enough. You are enough. Can I ask you one more quick question? Yeah. So I remember having a friend of mine that had the weight loss surgery and he lost a ton of weight. And I told him he looked good. And he's one of the first people that ever said, I appreciate that. But he said, it makes me think that people didn't think I look good. Have you had any of those feet? Like when people say, okay, yeah. Mostly, mostly I'm just like, thank you for noticing. Okay. That feels good.

Yeah. But there is still part of it. I was telling mom about this. People are so shallow and gross because I'm not even kidding.

For two years people like didn't pay to like stop i was gonna say mac i get like oh the grocery store and i got checked out by like mom was like no you did a cafe real last night did you notice that by all the firemen in front of you look at me and you didn't when i wait i noticed that too yeah it's just so wild because it's true i wondered if you were noticing that and people are nicer to me now than they like just strangers yeah wild that's a whole other thing in itself But anyways,

your worth is still there, regardless. Thank you. It's the bottom line, Tony. And nobody else. Thank you. But your body's least interesting about you, but it's still really cool. Okay. I was proud of you anyway, but I'm very proud of you now. More, but not more proud of you, but the same pride of you. More proud of you, but I was kind of. And you look the exact same and you're normal. I don't see. I'm all right.

Okay. But are we back? Are we recording now forever, every single day again for the next few years? We've never done that in our entire life. How about weekly or every other week? Yeah, we can do that. We did it. Hey, check us out on TikTok. Mackie's still fun and Sid's in Switzerland for a month. So, but then when she comes back, you know, you're taking her job, right? No. No. We also go to the virtual couch. Yeah. On TikTok.

At virtual couch on TikTok and at virtual.couch on the Instagram because we want to start doing some more lives there too. And Beauty by Mackie. And, okay, have you seen this one? Okay, for those watching, do you know I know a new one on Zoom? Watch this. Get ready. It's a rave. Oh my God. Isn't that funny with a smoke machine and everything? Okay. I hope that happens to you one time in therapy when you're having a crazy. That one hasn't. That one hasn't. Today I did another one where.

That could be good. Yeah. But today I did another. I was doing something like this and I got the fireworks again. And that was really funny. You know, because I mean, it was like with a guy that was ready for it. There's the fireworks. But the best, the best ever though. I know they are. The best ever is like this one is so subtle. So subtle with this one right there.

But i think it's so good the balloons good stuff okay mackie you're awesome you you are good okay love you bye everybody okay, i don't even know.