Music. Hey everybody this is Tony and actually first it is story time. It's a beautiful Monday morning. Okay actually it's it's very windy and it's rainy and apparently there is a hurricane eyeballing California right this very moment that may cause trouble. So I just want to be authentic and true and all of those
things that I really believe in but I digress. So I left my house early, really early this morning to come to my office to do some recording before a full day of seeing clients and I decide as I walk out of the door you know it's gonna be a a mindful drive into the office. I was very intentional. I just want to be present. I want to be grateful. I just want to think. And as I drive away, I was quickly reminded
about a podcast that my wife and I are listening to right now that is very fascinating. And I thought, you know what, I'm going to listen to a little bit of it because we're going to do our own things this week and we can come back and basically have podcast book club. But no, I already said I will be mindful and present. I noticed that I also need gas, I can get that tomorrow.
As I pass by the gas station that I now use primarily because I can use my phone to pay, I just smile and I mentally wave, hey gas station, you keep giving that gas. Maybe I had a quick immature joke that ran through my mind, but then I got to work and then I am ready to put something on into my headphones as I listen and straighten up my office. Where is my phone? And so I finally look everywhere and then I check on my iPad, where, find my phone, find my device, where's my phone?
And there it is, right back at my house. What a joy. What a wonderful opportunity for me to head back home because I actually needed to have my phone because I had phone calls that I needed to make today, a phone session in particular. So I mindfully got back into my vehicle and presented the heck out of that ride home and. Back and here I am noticing that I want to put off recording the intro to this bonus episode until later. But the bonus episode that I am about to share with you literally
has the words, do it anyway in it. And I literally talk about inviting things like I'll do it later or I'll do it tomorrow to come along with me while I do it now. So, uh, I want to say doggone it, but I mean, what a joy, what a pleasure to practice so much what this episode is about, but honestly, and I mean every word of this, I am thrilled to share a bonus episode with you of a brand new podcast that I am co-hosting with my daughter, Mackie, called The Mind, The Mirror, and Me.
And in this podcast, we explore the intricate dance of beauty and self-love and mental health. And I think so many of the things that we've already covered on The Mind, The Mirror, and Me podcast and what we will be covering moving forward is going to resonate with so many of you. I am sharing the very first episode in its entirety here.
And if you like what you hear, please do Mackie and me both a favor and go follow or subscribe to the Mind the Mirror Me podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. And that includes their videos of the podcast on Mackie's YouTube channel. And you can also find her on her Instagram at beautybymackie. So sit back and enjoy, and let's embark on this enlightening journey together. Welcome to the first official episode of the Mind the Mirror and Me, the podcast where
I, a 23-year-old hairstylist, take on mental health, self-love, solitude, and more. I am your host, Mackie, and I am joined by the one and only Tony Overbay, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified MindfulHabit coach, writer, speaker, husband, father, host, of The Virtual Couch, Waking Up to Narcissism, and Murder on the Couch podcast, and who just so happens to be my dad. Hi, Tony.
Tony Garnett Hi, Mackie. I feel like you forgot to put all the other things I wanted you to read about me in there. Mackie Albright Sorry. I tried to get as many as I could in there. Tony Garnett, You did. You did. And I am your dad. Mackie Albright You are my dad, and you're kind of a big deal. Tony Garnett, Well, I think it's so cool that we are doing a podcast on The Virtual Couch Podcast Network, and I knew that you were 23 years old, too. Mackie Albright,
I don't believe that. Tony Garnett I know. I know you're, I've always know you're somewhere between 22 and 25, which is true, but it's, I don't know how old you are. Don't you really? I really don't take a guess. This can be embarrassing. I feel like you've been 51 for a long time. Okay. So you're maybe 52. I think I'm supposed to go. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. Cause I'm really 53. So that means you think I look so much younger. Sorry. You have 40. Yeah.
41 today. I literally had somebody in one of my sessions today and they said, And yeah, and my spouse thought I was flirting with this old lady and he said, yeah. And I was like, she's like 55. Why would we flirt with her? And I just thought that's so crazy. Two years older than me, Mackie. My goodness. I know. But the inaugural episode. Yeah. This is exciting. This is super exciting. You've been on the virtual couch podcast like 500
times. Something like that. Yeah. But I think seven or eight. I really don't know. Yeah, Sure, we'll go with that though. Okay, so just kind of diving right in. It's kind of a little segue into what we're going to be talking about today, which I gave you a little brief idea of what it is. Really, everything you say is just coming straight from your brain on the spot. But that can also be bad because when you said segue, it made me think of when we rented
segues on a family vacation. Do you remember that? I do. And that was fun. Kind of scary. It was super scary. It was really scary. I still remember at one point, not really understanding how they work and I leaned forward and I went really fast. It's game over. Yeah. That quick. Spooky. But that's the way my mind works. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Like, oh, I'm so sorry for you. Sorry that happens. I guess I'm sorry, Becky. No, my mind's similar to yours. It's fine.
We don't get anything done. We were just talking about this. Exactly. Anyways, moving along. That's segways. Okay. So I just, a little brief intro. Did you snort? I did. I thought that was you. Did I do that? No, that was me. You got me scared. I'm gaslighting you. Okay. This podcast, it's been in the works for a while on my end. I kind of brought it up to you fairly recently, but it's just been one of those things where I was like, I want
to do this. And I just have like a million Google Docs, just things that are started. It's literally they'll end mid sentence and it's just a couple sentences. And then I'll start a whole new doc like a week later and try to start something. So it's kind of embarrassing if you were to look through all my stuff. And I have a million different names I've had, different ideas, so many different things.
I didn't know you had that much stuff into it. Oh yeah, for a long time. And every time I would get around to it being serious in any way or becoming a real idea, I would just get flooded with the super fun. I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not interesting enough. I'm not qualified or, you know, and the list goes on and on and on, which I'm hoping as Mr. Therapist, you can tell me that that that's normal and I'm not the only one that feels that way.
I think it all goes back to your parents is what it is. Oh, yes. They have the problem that it's so normal. It's almost like if you didn't feel that way, I would say, narcissist anyway. Let me check out one of your podcasts. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I'd find myself kind of getting stuck with that and then just becoming overwhelmed with those feelings because they're not fun. No. They're not fun at all and they make you think bad things and it's just terrible.
So then I would shut it down. And then one day, for whatever reason, I threw out the idea to you, which is very spooky to me, but I did it and you were like, oh, that could be cool. That could be kind of fun. So then you, as Mr. Therapist, dad guy, swooped in and you kind of gave me a little nudge or like shove, an aggressive shove in a loving way. A very loving, aggressive shove. To just do it, to do the thing and to just...
Well, okay. So this, and it's one of my favorite concepts or principles of mental health, which is the, I'll do it when I feel better. But in reality, you have to do it to feel better. Right. Which is so hard to wrap your head around when you're in those moments of feeling the scary things, but it's very true and so I did need that.
Well, there were so many things that the episode you just did on the virtual couch, which I highly recommend people go listen to, but we talked a lot about wanting to get rid of discomfort and when somebody is feeling down and we were talking about, I really like to go down this path of, we'll just do things, not because ruminating and worrying and overthinking, which are you good at those? Some of my best things. See? So you're, yeah. Right?
Yeah. But those are just not productive and they're not very helpful. So I think I was saying it would be better to even just start, I didn't realize, create a million Google documents and think about podcast names and titles than go down the path of rumination and beating oneself up. So it's a good thing I have all of that. And again, I didn't know that's something we shared. I could show you. Well, look at how many tabs I have open on my computer. It's insane.
I can't even look at it. And look, I have three different windows open with multiple tabs. It never ends. No, it doesn't. It's so much. Yeah. That idea of just not ruminating and not sitting there and all of that, then you just did a nice little segue into kind of what I want to talk about. This is the part where we were getting good at the segues though, and we drove across that one elementary school. And I remember at that point, I was like, I'm pretty good
at this. You're like, I could do this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Doing like little circles or basketball moves. Yeah, exactly. And like, yeah, it's getting really good. Yes. Going along with the idea of not ruminating, not sitting there thinking about it and doing, Right? That's what we're doing. We are doing. And so one little thing I've taken from that and become very passionate about is this concept of to be afraid and do it anyway.
I think you came on and talked about that a while ago on the last episode before this one. And that, that got a lot of feedback about that. It's one of the things that I think has positively impacted my anxiety the most, which for anyone doesn't know I struggle with very severe anxiety just day to day all the time. It's been years. It's a thing. And so I've been trying to, it's a friend and it's a thing that I've been trying
to work with instead of against. But in doing that, I've been learning to be afraid and do it anyways or be anxious and do it anyways. So that's what... I want to talk to you about today because I feel like it's very fitting for this first episode that is very scary and I've been putting off because it is scary, but we're being afraid and we're doing it anyways. And even on a deep note with that, we are here at my office aka slash podcast studio and we weren't supposed to record tonight.
We were going to record tomorrow and I had a client have a cancellation and so I texted you and it's so funny because I said, Mac, if you want to, you can come do it tonight. And then I immediately texted you and said, or not. I just thought, Oh, what is Maggie saying? They're going, really old man? Like really 53 year old guy. Come on. I said tomorrow. So I'm impressed when you said I'll be right over. Thank you. I had to just be afraid. Feel that for a second, put it out my mind and go, we're
doing it. Get in the car and go. This has been an experience with starting this podcast, but also I recently started my own business. Open up my own suite to do the hair stuff off when piercings, and we talked about that in that episode. And I think it was just a reminder that I'm not the only person that is doing things scared. Not at all. I'm not that special. Not? That's funny. I think when we were recording the last virtual couch episode and I had a
computer problem or something and you said, see, it's because I'm here. And I said, yeah, you're not. You're not that special. In a loving way. But truly, and I know that there are other people that have to do things scared and anxious and with all the feelings. And I know there are people right now that are taking big leaps or thinking about it or have career opportunities or relationship opportunities or life changes or whatever it is. And maybe you have to do it scared.
Yes. And with that, I know that you, Mr. Tony Therapist dad guy. Yes. You had to do something scared and maybe you don't want to admit that it was that scared was the feeling you were feeling. You had to do something uncomfortable at least. Are you talking about the first time I shaved my head? Yeah, tell me more. It's actually an accident by my niece, Emily. Oh, no, but you did have this big career change in your life that's led you to this point.
So please, take it away, tell me about it. It's interesting. Okay, so I did 10 years in the computer software industry, and it freaks me out now to think I've been a therapist for 17 years, 18 years, and sometimes I still wake up and think, what if I wasn't a therapist? What if I never would have done that? If you would have just stuck with it. It's crazy because I say this so often, I absolutely did not know what I didn't know
about how you could feel in a job. So my entire 10 years in computer software, I just thought, I don't really like it and it's okay. And I guess this is what you do and you tough it out and you can't wait till five o'clock and you punch out and you go home and hopefully the weekends will be cool. And I did get to travel a little bit, but I just thought this is what you do.
And that's, but I think a lot of people feel that way and a lot of people do just, they you kind of accept it and just go, I guess this is what happened in 95 is, you know. Yeah. And I just kept feeling this pull or this call. I know it's so cliched. I've always enjoyed biographies about people whenever I spoke a lot all over the world at trade shows. And I found, myself just, I would give my spiel dance, like, you know, do my monkey dance, do the thing and.
Throw on some t-shirts and giveaway software. And then I would just really connect with people. And I so enjoyed that. And I think I read every biography as a kid, every sports biography, everything. I just like knowing how people work. I wrote a humor column in the newspaper for like 10 years. I learned this within the last year or two. I had no idea. I still have them somewhere. Yeah. So I wrote a humor column. And when mom and I started
having you guys, the kids, I started writing about it a lot. And there were some dads at the time. There was a guy named Paul Reiser and some others that wrote fatherhood books. And I thought, I would like to take these articles and put them in a book. And then I thought, I really did. And I kind of think maybe I was just talking myself into a reason to go back and get my Master's in Counseling because I said, Oh, I need, I need the letters
by my name if I'm going to sell a book. And the next thing you know, I'm at night school. I remember that I got my Master's in Counseling and I just started doing part-time therapy and then I loved it to the point where then it became a full-time thing and now it's the most incredible thing in the world. And yeah, I've got this podcast network and I've got a best-selling book on addiction and I've got a marriage course and a parenting course
an addiction course and a long wait list. I love it. It was absolutely scary. Sometimes I do say I would like to do another podcast called the 20-Year Overnight Success because I've worked with so many people and entrepreneurs and they all took a scary leap and it took. Them a while to get things going. But then all of a sudden, they found the thing they love doing and then people just say, well, yeah, but you always knew or it was pretty easy for you, right? I want to say, no, it really wasn't.
Crazy long hard day. Yeah, exactly. But now it's good. Right. Yeah. But it wasn't necessarily just an overnight and immediate thing. Which you like what you do. I love what I do. Which is that part to me. And I sometimes almost want to just delicately talk about how cool that is To find it early. Yeah. Because a lot of people don't. Find something just immediately. But I think there is something out there for everyone
that they could love. But again, you have to take the uncomfortable, scary leaps and you have to have no money sometimes and you have to do these big, scary things. I had somebody today actually, and this wasn't a client, but somebody that was reaching out to me and they're looking at maybe wanting to do coaching kind of things and courses and programs. And I even wrote it down. It's somewhere here I could show you, but I thought
it was so interesting where they were saying, �Oh, here it is. I don�t know why. If
you�re watching on the YouTube channel, there�s a plug. I�m looking at a sticky note.� But they were saying, �Yep, I�m more than open to it.� And they said, �Yeah, I�m willing to at least try it, but I get paid very well at what I do, and so I�m not really sure how long I need to wait before I�ll start making money doing this.� And, I just thought, �Oh, that�s not the right attitude.� Because I wrote a newspaper column
for free for a long time, and the podcast was free for a long time because you just love it. And then you got to do the things you love. I remember saying that as I was in hair school, cutting people's hair, specifically some older dudes. And they would criticize my career path in hair school. And they would sit there as I'm cutting their hair and be like, well, you're not really going to make money with this. What's your backup plan? Or seriously, be like, are you just going to do this until
you have kids? Or they would grill me on things like that, which was just a whole other thing and super silly. Because I'm cutting their hair. I'm sitting there cutting their hair. Getting their hair with scissors in your hand. You probably shouldn't be doing this. Plus, tell me, the guy giving you the career advice is saying, I've got to go to a beauty school to get a discount haircut. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. To pay like five bucks to get a haircut. And not tip.
Not tip at all. So it's a very interesting thing. Yeah. But in doing that, I had to stand up for myself a lot, which is not something I do. Right. Right. At first, it was really scary. And I would talk a lot about the concept of, if you do what you love, the money will come, and trusting in that. And I would get so much backlash from these men.
Okay, now let's go psychology on this. I think that that is one of those things where people want to say, no, it doesn't work that way because if it did, then they probably should have tried. Yeah. And they're unhappy in their career. There's probably so much more to it. Yeah, exactly. But it was so interesting because I would have that opportunity a lot to talk about that. Occasionally, it might settle nicely with someone and maybe they'd be like, you
know what? You go. That's great, but not very often. But I really do believe that and I believe that if you love what you're doing and you're passionate about it. People pick up on that and people gravitate towards people that are passionate about what they're doing. I think this is that part where when I said I didn't know what I didn't know, when I was in the computer industry, I tried to act like I knew and understood things. I would memorize
just enough to be able to give our spiel. If somebody said, �What do you do with the primary defect list, bad sectors on the optical disk?� I would say, �What do you think we do?� I wouldn't say that.
You tell me. Well, that's a decent question, but really we're just focused on the speed of our, I didn't know what I was saying, but then when I like what I do as a therapist, everything I'm watching, everything I'm reading, everything is just, it just makes so much sense and you want to fit all these pieces together and you get so excited and it just, you feel it, that energy. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Which is a bonus than if you are taking that big leap.
It's nice to see that pick up because it is, I think at least in my experience with a big career change, and maybe this was your experience too. That initial part, it's almost a feeling of buyer's remorse almost. There's probably a better term for it, but where you take this big leap and you do this big thing and it is so scary and uncomfortable that you kind of- Like what if I made the right or the wrong choice?
Yeah. I think it's really easy in that beginning period to feel that way. But that's when I think most people would give up and never get to see their success or see what could happen. And it's kind of sad because think of how many things, how many ideas and careers and things are missed out on because of that fear. I thought about one time, I thought about I'm a huge basketball fan. And I thought about
the fact that Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant found basketball. And I thought, how many people are there that were not necessarily equally as talented or good, but were afraid to try or play? And I'm sure there's got to be a lot. go, there might be the world's greatest therapists in the HR department at some store. Nicole Lugavere, PhD Right. Just talking to all his friends through all their things.
Chris Saffran, PhD I mean, he loves psychology and therapy. Then why are you a therapist? Then he'd probably be, well, they don't make much money. Nicole Lugavere, PhD Right. And he's got his whole list of reasons to make something make sense. Chris Saffran, PhD Yeah, but. Nicole Lugavere, PhD Right. Which I think is what people do. It's a normal human thing. But it's kind of sad if you think about it because there's so many missed opportunities and ideas and things that.
The world, and people are missing out on because other people are scared. And then people around them, then will often discourage somebody because they didn't do it themselves. And I see it now. Then if I go in my therapist brain, oh, I see that often. I bet. Yeah. It's like, well, somebody always told me that I couldn't do it. And then if you kind of poke around a little bit more, well, what did that person do? Well, they never fulfilled their dreams.
It's like, huh. Huh. That's interesting. It kind of adds up. And I do want to say, though, I do want to say that our brain does want to go all or nothing or black or white. So a lot of times people will say, okay, I guess I just have to leverage my house and quit my job and do the new thing. And I personally feel like things do need to happen. The cliched side hustle concept can sometimes be a thing. Yeah. Maybe don't sell everything you own and jump into something, but it is good to
take the leap and to do the big things and make the changes. But yeah, we do have to be reasonable. Yeah. Because I've also literally worked with people that then did say, I'm getting rid of everything, I'm cashing my savings, and I've got a year, I'm going to make it work. But then that first month and they say, the first month, I'm just going to take it easy, going to relax a little bit. Then month two, I've never really been on a big vacation. But month three, and then before you know it.
That year's gone by, and then it's like, well, it's time to just go back to whatever. As much as it's this big motivation to take the leap and do the thing, be smart about it. You're right. That's funny. The theme of every podcast is going to be we talk people into something and then talk them out of it. Right. Wait a minute. No, because it is take the leap, but be intelligent. Make sure you still have somewhere to live. Food on the table. Kind of important, too.
I think there's a balance that can be there, right? So going with that, I think change in any form is terrifying for most people. I think there's some people that love change, But I would guess that the majority... Yeah, I was going to say, I'm trying to think through. I mean, I know there are... Yeah. But I think the majority of people would agree that it's daunting and it's scary and it's uncomfy.
And it's just, it's not necessarily fun. It can be, but it's not necessarily, especially with like big life changes or changing a career that you've been at for however long. And do you know why your brain is so wired to the negative? Why? It's kind of a crazy thing where... Tell me. Your brain is still this device, and I won't go into the whole of the brains that don't get killed device. We'll do that in a future episode.
But there's a concept where your brain has evolved from this place of, I remember the first person that ever told me this, they said, imagine you're looking over the savanna, the plains, and you see this gazelle or antelope, and you think, man, if I go take that thing out, our whole village eats, like I'm the hero. But now the corner of your eye, you see like a tiger, and your brain just says, if I get this wrong one time, I die. So I'll I'll do this later.
So, our brain's kind of saying, okay, I'm going to default to the negative because there's a chance that there may be a saber-toothed tiger around the corner, but then now here we are in a world where there aren't so many saber-toothed tigers, so our anxiety is so much around, I'm doing that with so many things that are not really going to happen.
But when you think about that, though, I love the concept of when you're aware that, oh, my brain's doing the, I better get it right or I'll die thing, then it's like, thank you, brain. Thank you. Appreciate what you're doing. That was cool of you to look out for me. Exactly. There's not a state where it's too tight, right? No, and I'm willing to take the risk. The one, a 10 zillion odds that there will be one. Because it can be worth it. Yeah, absolutely. Then you feed the whole village.
Exactly, yeah. Oh, that's good. Right? Okay. So again, change, it's uncomfy. That's normal. You're not alone or crazy if big changes like that are scary. And I think that this concept of being afraid and doing it anyways, it's It's a very interchangeable thing, and you can kind of fill that word afraid with anything. Like be afraid, be mad, be sad, be angry, be uncomfortable, and do it anyway, right? Like you just fill that with whatever that negative feeling is that you have in this
moment and just do it anyway. I think the one thing that that doesn't apply to is being asleep. Okay. Fine. Will you please edit that out? Okay. That was the first bad dad joke. No, but you're onto something. I don't think so. I'm trying to just give you some credit here. Oh, you're yes-anding me. We're improv-ing. Yes-and. But yeah, so I do think it's an interchangeable thing. Maybe not when you're asleep. Okay? Okay. Fine. Fine. But any other thing. Yeah. Please edit that out, Mackie.
Okay. But you're allowed to do things uncomfortably. Yeah, because you don't have to listen to your brain. Your brain's like, this is scary. I don't want to do it. And because I'm setting it up. Man, I could be 0 for 2 right now. But I used to think this was really funny. It actually hasn't been going over as well. When I speak anywhere and I'm talking about this concept, I will say, now for my next trick, watch what I do. I am telling myself to raise my right hand.
Thank you very much. For those listening, I did not raise my right hand. Not even a little bit. So my brain was telling me to, because if my brain's telling me that it's not going to go well, or you better not do that, or it's going to be scary, or I wouldn't, or you should stay home, I do not have to listen to it. That's deep right there. It is. You don't have to lift your arm up. No. And you know that. No. Right now, my brain's saying, lift them both up and smack Mackie with both your hands.
And guess what? Not even getting smacked. No. Wow. That's really deep right there. It really is. I know. It is. Okay, thank you. So I do think you don't have to listen to your brain. And again, if we need to put a little disclaimer out there, listen to your brain when it's telling you the right thing. I know. You know, like it's such a hard thing to talk about because there is the part where it's like... Trust your gut. Don't do the stupid things. Yeah.
Just because someone's like, yeah, take the leap. Don't let, you know, listen to your brain when you need to listen to your brain. But sometimes it's dumb. But it can be very dumb. And there are a lot of stories that your brain tells you and thoughts that you have that aren't real or just aren't necessarily the outcome. Your brain doesn't know everything. It's very smart, but it doesn't know everything. So. I think that's something to be noted. I never noticed that you said aren't like
your mom does. What do you mean? Instead of aren't. What do I say? Aren't. Aren't? Yeah, that's what you said. Aren't. What am I supposed to say? Aren't. Aren't. Yeah, that sounds, funny. Yeah, because you're saying it. You're taking the E out. You're just saying aren't. You say it. I mean, it sounds fancy. There you go. Write in everybody and is it aren't or aren't? Are-irant. That one. Oh my gosh. Okay. Back to what we were talking about though.
Thanks for making fun of the way I talk. Yeah, plenty of that, I think. You can do things uncomfortably and you don't have to listen to your brain. And we're talking about these big life changes and these big scary things, but this also applies to the.
Little tiny things. Because at least as somebody who deals with anxiety, works with anxiety on a daily basis, this concept, I mean, this goes down to walking out your front door or going to the grocery store or going on a first date or hanging out with a friend, going out with your coworkers or any type of thing, as small as it is, you can do these things uncomfortable and afraid. And again, whatever that filler word is there, you can go do these
things and you can get through it, even though your brain might be telling you not to. And again, if we're going to go back to the disclaimers, if you're physically sick, if you've got these crazy things going on, listen to your body, trust your gut, but surface level, you can do it uncomfortable. And you can, again, if we're just talking about going to the grocery store, which for me can be a very anxious thing.
Miriam is not a replacement for professional counseling. Please seek your rights at disclaimers. Thank you. Oh my gosh. But really though, because you can go do those things. Yes. Uncomfortable and scared. And the reality of it is, most of the time, if you go do the thing that you think is going to be so scary and big, once you do it, it won't be. It's not, it absolutely- Like once you get into the grocery store- It's not as scary.
It's not as scary as your brain was telling you it was going to be. And once you start that new job and you're a couple of weeks into it and you're a little bit more comfortable, it's not as crazy and terrifying as you maybe thought it would be. That's the truth. is something to note. I said something in my notes about it's okay to go somewhere with your anxious tummy. Oh, yeah. Even if you might have to... Even if something bad might happen.
There's always bathrooms. There's always bathrooms. There's always a solution. It's okay. And the thing that you tell me this all the time, and it's in one sense one of my least favorite things you say to me. I was going to say. But it's also one of my favorite things. But one, if I'm feeling really anxious or panicky and I'll hit you with the, I can't breathe. And then you, what do you tell me? That you're breathing already or no? That I'm breathing, that I've been breathing.
I've never not been breathing. Yeah, if you hadn't been able to pull it off, then you probably wouldn't be here. Yeah, something bad would have happened. And you had, was it a psychiatrist one time that said that your brain, your body and brain are so smart that if you aren't going to do it, it will pass you out? Yeah. I thought that was so good. It was one of the, my psychiatrist told me
that exact thing. Because I was telling her, I feel like I can't take a full breath. And And I was so panicked and she was like, here's the thing, kid, the worst thing that could happen is that you would pass out, your body would do a reset and you'd come back to and you'd be breathing just fine. Which is funny because when you think about it, the body is saying, if I can knock you out then I can just breathe on my own. Literally. Yeah. It's just a brain thing. Yeah.
And that was weirdly the most comforting thing I've ever heard from anyone ever. Except for like stuff I've said. Except for everything you've said. Exactly. Sorry, from a psychiatrist, that's not you. Thank you. Okay. That. There's another concept that you have been telling me about since I was just a wee little anxious kid. Yes. And it kind of goes along with this feeling and emotion and doing something anyways. And it is more of the feeling the emotion and bringing it along with you.
And I'd love to hear you kind of break that one down. Okay. So yeah, it's called expansion and it's making room for all the feelings and then inviting them to come along. And I'll give you a funny example. here in my office, my podcast studio, and if you look over there, I have my little weights over there. I did an experiment two or three years ago, and there were so many things going
into this. One of them was I've always wanted to do push-ups every day. I've told myself I want to do 100 a day, but then if I would forget, then the end of the day would roll around and if I hadn't done 100, I would say, �Well, I'll do them tomorrow.� Then my favorite thing to say is then if it hit Thursday, then I'll do it Monday. If it hit the 16th I'll do it on the first, if I'm in July, it's going to be a New Year's resolution.
So instead of that, there's in the therapy modality I love, it's called ACT, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. There's just these concepts of you have to do something that matters to you, and I like exercise. So all right, I want to do push-ups. And instead of saying 100 a day, I'm just going to do push-ups each day, period. And so then my brain's going to say, well, you might not do a lot. And I'm saying, oh, right. Yeah, I might not. Yeah.
And that already was saying, okay, so even if I do one pushup, then I succeeded, which is a wonderful thing. And then the best part about that though is now I'm able to use this concept of expansion so many times. I had it happen today and I've been doing them daily now for years, but I will think, okay, I don't have time to do them because I have 10 minutes between clients or I don't want to do them.
And then I am literally like getting down onto the ground and doing them while I don't want to do them, and while I don't have time to do them. That's it right there. I love it so much because, again, I don't have to do what my brain says, and there's something pretty empowering about that. And then the reality is, I'm saying that it happens.
Most every day when I'm doing it. And so that's the part I think that's important to know because it doesn't mean that after a couple of weeks of doing it, then you never think those thoughts again. Because then you're going to feel like something's wrong with me. But that's not how humans work. No. But it's really cool to be able to just say, oh yeah, I don't want to do them. Right. And then just do them. Yeah. So I think one of the times that we were saying, hey, come visit us. And you were
saying, I don't really want to. And I was like, oh, invite that to come with you. Yeah. You're like, well, just do it anyways. Get on the plane and just so you know, I can can sit next to you. Yeah, exactly. You don't even have to pay for a seat. And I actually had a client who was talking to me about some anxiety stuff and she brought up this concept of naming your anxiety or your depression. That's big too. I've never
named mine. That could be kind of fun though. But to name it and then that way you can literally bring it with you and kind of talk to it and be like, stop. Or just, hey, here's what we're going to do and you're going to come with me. A lot of times people do alliteration, so I do a lot with people with addiction and so addiction ends up being Andy often. And then even sometimes when couples want to have conversations, but they don't want to say, so did you act out on your addiction today?
That doesn't feel very good. The person said, so you see Andy? The guy's like, yeah, I realized after I didn't get a lot of sleep last night, my boss was kind of being a jerk. And Andy's like, hey, you busy? I said, you know what? I'm good right now. We'll see how the day goes. See you later, Andy. Yeah, right. I think that's just a great concept and tool, I think, in terms of that, again, with where
we're saying you can kind of interchange this word of be afraid and do it anyway. You can be any word you need to fill right there and do it anyway, because you don't have to do exactly what your brain's telling you you have to do, which is a super powerful thing. So good. Again, you can just bring it with you. I remember we went to a King's game one time and I was feeling really anxious and I was kind of getting to the point where I was like, maybe I just
won't go. And I was saying, I'm really anxious. Maybe I'll just sit this one out. And then. Literally as you're walking out the door and you're like, just bring the anxiety with you. Like just so casual and just so like, just come on, just get in the car, just do the thing. You can bring a snack if you want. Literally, that's like what you're telling me, which is weirdly very helpful. So good.
And again, usually then when you do the things, they're not as terrible and scary as they feel like they're going to be. You something that I don't think that we were maybe going to talk about today. This is another one from that world of acceptance. And this is a concept where if you are unwilling to have it, you will. So the concept of, if I'm unwilling to be anxious, then I will be so anxious. It's staying right there. There's no way
of getting out of it. And the best way, the example I'd like to give on this one is, it shocks me that you guys still want to go do things with mom and That is because you're adults and so are we and several of the kids like scary movies. Do you like scary movies? No. Yeah, I don't. Sometimes, but not really. I'm not a fan. I'm kind of a weenie. Okay. But here's what's kind of funny though, is that this concept of if I'm unwilling to have
it, I will, or I will miss out on things. So if I really was, I don't like being scared. Oh, you like jump out of your seat and throw your popcorn. Like you audibly scream in a theater. And that's what's funny. So if I was unwilling to be scared, then I would say, you know what guys, I'm going to sit this out. And then I would miss the opportunity to go on dates with my wife and hang out with my kids and eat popcorn.
So, I'm accepting the fact that I'm going to scream like a young child. I'm going, literally, I've thrown popcorn. I'm going to watch most of the movie through my fingers or my hat. And it's so funny because I'm accepting the fact that those will happen because then I'll also have these other moments. So, I like when you're saying, I'm going to bring anxiety with me at this Kings game. We had a fun time. And then every now and again, oh, there's anxiety.
Yeah. It's not like it just disappears because it still would show up and it still had to breathe a lot as we're sitting there and I do all my little tricks that I've learned that help, but yeah. Because I'm the one where you stand up and sing the Star Spangled Banner in the middle of things that are quiet. Yeah, that one's my favorite one. I don't understand that one. I was talking more breathing, sometimes I do a little squeeze the toes, like you know,
those type of things. I was like, those aren't your toes. Okay. But dad jokes, does that mean we've gone too, oh, that, yep, the 35 man mark is what I do. We're getting there. We're getting there. Yeah, that's how we know. Okay. But it's worth doing the things to not miss out on the other things. It's okay, it's more than okay to bring all the feelings with you because you don't need to let them stop you from living the life you want to, or being the person you want to be.
They shouldn't stop you, not to shit on people, but they shouldn't stop you from reaching your potential and being the person you want and doing the things you want to in this life. Because at the end of the day, they're just feelings and they're temporary and they don't need to hold you back. Yeah, they don't. And with that, with all of those things, right where you are right now, you are good enough.
You are doing great things. That great idea you have, the business idea, the opportunity, new relationship, the big life change, or even just your trip to the grocery store, or even if it's just making it through the next day or the next hour, wherever you are right now, you've got this. You are capable. You are good enough. Your brain is just telling you a story. Really, that's what it comes down to. It's trying to stay in survival mode
and do all the things that are nice, but not necessary in all the moments. And you are capable. You are good enough, interesting enough, smart enough, right here, right now, day, all the things, you are good enough. I don't know how I'm like, I could say that a million times. You are good enough. Oh, I'm so proud of you. Yes, I'm so proud. I'm center beaming. Stop. But it's really true and it comes back to this idea. What would this world be if
we just all kept our ideas inside? And if we turned down every opportunity that came our way because we gave in to these scary feelings that are real, they are real and they are valid, but they don't need to rule your life. So please feel your feelings. Yes. up the courage, take the leap, be afraid and do it anyways. Don't let any form of fear or negative feelings hold you back from living the life you want to live and being your truest yourself.
And all that motivational crap, but it's true and it's real. It's so good. And you did it today by doing this podcast, by starting your salon. I don't think you'll do this, but if people want to, they can go get their hair cut by you. They really can. And their hair dyed and all the other, and piercings of things. All the things. Yeah. So if you want to talk some more, you can find me on Instagram at Beauty by Mackie.
You can send me a message there or there's a link to book. If you have anything hair you're beauty related, please message me. I love to chat. But also if you have anything you want to hear from us here on this podcast, also send me a message there. Let me know. So yeah, you can find me at beautybymackey on Instagram. Tony, where do we find you? Tony Overbay underscore LMFT on Instagram or just TonyOverbay.com on the World Wide Web. The World Wide Web.
The internets. That's the one. I will put all of that in the show notes so you have that easy access. But yeah, this has been the mind, the mirror and me. Thank you so much for stopping by and feeling some feelings with us today and we'll talk soon. Okay. Music.