Anxiety, Aging, and Emotional Autonomy: I Was "This Many Years Old" When I Learned My Parents Were Regular People

So let me tell you one of the most incredible stories in the history of neuroscience. And this is a story that completely changed how we understand the relationship between our emotions and our ability to reason or to think about things logically. So the year was 1848, and a gentleman named Phineas Gage was a 25-year-old railroad construction foreman. And Phineas was known for being level-headed and smart and really good at his job.

And he was working on the Rutland and Burlington Railroad in Vermont. And his job was to use explosives to clear a path for new train tracks. So part of Phineas' job involved using a large iron rod. It was a little longer than a modern day baseball bat, maybe about three and a half feet long. But this thing was heavy. It weighed about 13 and a half pounds. And he used this rod to pack explosives into holes that were drilled into the rocks. And this job required very good precision.

You had to be really good at what you did because you're working with explosives. And well, explosives explode. But you would drill the hole.

You would add this blasting powder and then put sand and then use the rod to pack it all down before somebody else would insert think of like a candle wick you would light it you would clear out you would run away and it would explode the rock and you could eventually lay train tracks but on september 13th and yes i checked september 13th in 1848 it was on a wednesday so no friday the 13th vibes here but on that day something went really bad the rod struck a rock and it created

a spark, and the powder exploded. And that iron rod shot straight through Gage's head like a rocket. And it entered under his left cheekbone, and it exited through the top of his skull. And this rod landed almost 100 feet away. Now, here is where the story gets really incredible.

Phineas Gage survives. Now, not only did he survive, but he was absolutely conscious he could speak within minutes of the accident, and even rode in an ox cart sitting completely upright for about three quarters of a mile to go see a doctor. And when the doctor arrived, Gage reportedly said, well, I think here's enough business for you. So while Gage survived physically, his personality changed dramatically.

The once very responsible, socially adept foreman became, he became impulsive, irritable, and he had a lot of difficulty planning anything in the future. And his friends famously said that Gage was no longer Gage. He then couldn't hold down a job, his social relationships suffered, and his ability to make any kind of a sound decision was absolutely gone.

So this fascinating case gave us our first real glimpse into how different parts of the brain control different aspects of our personality and our behavior. And the rod had damaged his frontal lobe and specifically this area called this prefrontal cortex. And this part of the brain, it kind of acts like this wise advisor to all of our emotional responses. And so without this, this area functioning properly, his emotional responses, they had no checkpoint.

There was no voice of reason to say, hey, hang on a second, let's think this through before you do something impulsive or you do something crazy.

So speaking of those emotional responses and then how our brains process them, I received an email recently that I wanted to share with you that I think is going to give us plenty to talk about today regarding our own behaviors, our own impulses, and what to do when our own wise advisors or the wise advisors of those around us, especially our loved ones seem to have maybe gone on an extended vacation.

So we're going to cover everything from anxiety, the need for control, differentiation, and we don't even need a rod going through our head. And I'll give you a little primer on how to tell the difference between dementia and Alzheimer's. So we're going to talk about that and so much more coming up on today's episode of The Virtual Couch. Music. It's what it's all about. Hey everybody, welcome to episode 430 of The Virtual

Couch. I am your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, a certified mindful habit coach, and I would love it if you would follow me on social media. On TikTok, it's at virtualcouch. On Instagram, at virtual.couch. And on Facebook, Tony Overbay, licensed marriage and family therapist. And look out for the live question and answers that I do with my daughters, Mackie, my daughter, Sydney.

We want your questions. We want your relationship questions, your mental health questions. You can send those to me at contact at TonyOverbay.com and we will address those or catch us live. And that's the interaction. It's one of my favorite times of the week when I get to go live with my daughters and answer questions.

But speaking of questions, I'm actually looking for your relationship questions, your marriage questions, it can even be your parenting questions, but send them to me at contact at TonyOverbay.com And I'm going to do some episodes where I'll be answering your relationship questions very soon. And if you missed the virtual couch or the Waking Up to Narcissism podcast last week, I did a joint episode.

Please go give that episode a listen. It's called Navigating Societal Expectations, Faith Crisis and Personal Growth, The Allegory Off the Beaten Path. And I'm setting the stage with that for more episodes about people who are navigating their own faith transitions, their own faith deconstructions. And I would love your questions about that process as well, including people who are in mixed-faith marriages. So reach out to me there at contact at TonyOverbay.com. Let's get to today's

episode and this email that I mentioned earlier. It's from a listener, and I think the email might seem a little bit simple on the surface, but I get questions like this often, and I think it's going to give us a muse or a base camp to operate from to talk about several things that I've been thinking a lot about lately. So here is the email. Hi, Tony. I wanted to ask your opinion about something that I've noticed with my father that has me a bit puzzled.

He's now in his mid-60s, and I'm wondering if I'm starting to see early signs of dementia, or is it something else? And what do I need to do to keep my own sanity? Over the past several months, he's developed an increasing need to arrive extremely early to all kinds of events and activities. For instance, when he comes to watch my son's games, he insists on getting there way before necessary. And then the same thing if we're going to a restaurant or a movie, you name it.

And what's particularly noticeable is his growing anxiety around parking situations. He wants to park what seems like as far from the entrance as possible and always backs into spaces so he can, quote, get out quickly if needed. And heaven forbid if I try to park close or I don't think to back in. And he seems increasingly preoccupied with avoiding any type of crowd and always having an escape route everywhere he goes.

It's like he's an ex-Navy SEAL who always has to be facing the door if we're inside any building. And for the record, he was not a Navy SEAL unless he was one of those cool kinds who pretended to be an insurance salesman during the day and maybe moonlighted as a SEAL. But this is a far departure from how he used to be. And I'm wondering if this is something that I should be concerned about or if it's just a normal part of the aging process.

Can you help me understand what might be behind these changes in his behavior? And should I or can I even talk to him about it? Looking forward to your insights. This is a great question.

And let's first talk about anxiety and let's break it down in a way that helps us understand why it exists and how it's actually been trying to help us all along. So think about anxiety like your body's built-in alarm system. And it comes from a really interesting place in our history. So when our ancestors lived in the wild, they needed a very quick warning system that could spot danger and react fast. So imagine you're a cave person and you hear a rustle in the bushes.

The ones who survived were the ones who were worried enough to check and see if that was a saber-toothed tiger before they walked past this rustle in the grass. But this alarm system operates in your body through something called the fight,

flight, or freeze response. and it's like you have a tiny smoke detector in your brain, especially in this area called the amygdala, that's constantly scanning for danger and it's not the one that you haven't replaced the battery on that just chirps all the time. Although that's not a bad analogy for people that really have high anxiety. Maybe they do need to get that smoke alarm battery changed, but I definitely digress.

So when your amygdala, when it spots something concerning, then it floods your body with stress hormones like adrenaline and cortisol. And this is why anxiety can make your heart race and your palms sweat and your breathing gets faster because your body is literally preparing you to fight or run away. Here's where I think it gets interesting for your dad's situation. In our ancient past, this whole system was mainly focused on immediate physical danger.

Predators, hostile tribes, dangerous weather. But as humans evolved and our societies became more complex, our anxiety system started focusing on social danger too. So instead of worrying about tigers, we start worrying about things like being late, which can mean that we're gonna get kicked out of our group or being trapped in a crowd. Which could mean danger, or not having an escape route, which could mean being very vulnerable and open to attack.

The bigger problem, though, is this ancient alarm system has not quite caught up with modern life because it's like having this super sensitive smoke detector that goes off when you're just cooking toast. And your dad's brain might be interpreting normal situations like parking lots or crowds as potential threats. And his anxiety system is trying to protect him by encouraging safety behaviors like arriving early or ensuring exits.

But what's really fascinating is how anxiety has evolved over human history. Back in the Stone Age, everything was like, is this a predator? Then there was this time called the agricultural age where it was basically, will we have enough food stored? Will we survive? Will we starve? And then we hit the industrial age. Now when it was basically, will I be able to keep my job and be able to put food on the table? And here we are in the modern age and it's evolved or maybe devolved into,

am I going to be late? Will I find parking? What if I get stuck? The irony is that our modern world is generally safer than it ever has been. But our anxiety system seems to be working overtime because we have more time to think about and anticipate problems. We're not spending 16 hours in the fields harvesting crops all day and then just physically exhausted and having to go to bed when it gets dark at 6 p.m. We're exposed to way more information about potential dangers.

This is where I'll pull my old man card out and just say the words social media, anybody. And then I guess I'm also going to yell at kids to get off my lawn. And then we also live in a more complex social environment, social situations in general, we have higher expectations for being able to control our environment, especially we just live in this world of comparison. We will see others and we will think that they have it all figured out. They aren't having anxiety.

They don't have to worry about these things. And we go down the what is wrong with me path, which again, nothing. You're the first version of you that's ever walked the face of the earth, experiencing things for the very first time. So check that out. But here's where we go to the older crowd, and I am definitely on my way there. For older adults like your dad, this anxiety system might become more sensitive because life experience has taught them more about potential problems.

And we have a negativity bias in our brain to begin with, because go back and look at the evolution of anxiety. Because in olden days, and I remember hearing at a training once that imagine you're a hunter-gatherer, we'll go with the hunter part, and you look out across the plane and you see this, I don't know why I always go to an alpaca. I don't even think I could point one out in a lineup.

But there's an alpaca, and if you get this thing, then you and your village eat for a few days and everybody's happy. But then you spot a tiger walking around by the alpaca. You don't even risk it because if you run into that tiger, you could potentially die. So you make one mistake and you're gone. So we have this negativity bias. There's a wonderful book called Buddha's Brain that says we react to negative experiences and we hang on to them like they're made of Velcro.

And the positive experiences are essentially like Teflon. We just send them right through and we seem to hang on to the negative situations. Older people, life experiences taught them about a lot more potential problems and then they've hung on to a lot of those. And instead of remembering that, okay, it's been how many times that we've been able to make it fine out of a crowd or the parking situation hasn't been that bad.

You'll hear things of, you remember back in 72, when we were at that high school basketball game and we were stuck in the crowd forever and the person got the flat tire. I don't want to have any of that happening again. Here we are, whatever, 50 years later, and we're remembering that one thing. So I better, I better be safe. And I think in general, as we get older, we start to feel more vulnerable than we used to. And our nervous system starts to be more reactive to stress.

I think that's a big part of this as well. And as a person who is starting to age, they are facing new challenges that come with aging that you really couldn't imagine until you get there. I really think that understanding anxiety, first of all, in this way, hopefully helps you start to see that your dad's behavior isn't necessarily irrational. It's this ancient protective system. And it's trying to keep him safe in a modern world.

And it's like having a dedicated, very dedicated, but maybe slightly outdated security guard who's working really hard to protect him. I have to share this memory. It makes me remember I unfortunately had a brother pass away when I was in my early 20s. And he had been in the Navy. Not a Navy SEAL, as far as I know. But when he passed, he had a military funeral and they said that there would be a 21-gun salute. And I remember just thinking, wow, that'll be pretty impressive.

And we were so caught up in the day, the emotions. And then when it came time, it's as if I would have turned in this scenario and expected to see this chiseled, jawed, shining, uniformed. Muscular, 21 people with a gun ready to do the 21-gun salute. But instead it was three amazingly wonderful, dedicated, I'm so grateful that they took the time, but very, very retired military people who then were going to shoot their weapons, I guess, three times, seven, seven times each.

And they were all off in the shots. So it sounded like maybe being at a duck hunt, but it gets the job done. But it wasn't exactly what I had anticipated. But it really was an amazing memory, though. But I picture that when you look at this security guard who has maybe seen some better days, but you're so grateful that they are still willing to do the job.

So now let's talk about dementia and let's talk about Alzheimer's. Because these are things that I am paying a lot of attention to the older that I get, because I would rather not have either one of them. So if something comes up in my newsfeed and it talks about dementia or Alzheimer's, then I am quick to read about this. So that's why I love that this question had this aspect into it.

Let's break this down in a way that I think will help distinguish between these conditions and then your dad's behavior. So think of your brain like a really complex city. And normal aging is like when some of the roads need some maintenance, and so traffic starts to move quite a bit slower. But the city still functions fairly well.

This is more of what we're probably seeing with your dad's behavior, that he's basically starting to add more traffic lights and more street signs to his city so that he can keep everything running smoothly and safely. But still moving along, but there's a lot more processes that are involved, and it can slow things down a bit. And that's the normal aging process. So dementia is like when there are multiple neighborhoods in that city and they start having serious problems all at one time.

So it's not just one thing because dementia affects memory, decision making, language and behavior in ways that will seriously impact your daily life. So somebody with dementia might not just arrive early to events. They might actually forget about the event entirely or they get lost on the way to the event. or they might not even remember why they're going to this one once they arrive or who they're there to see. And then Alzheimer's is actually a very specific type of dementia.

If you've ever been to New York, it's how Brooklyn is a specific part of New York City. It's the most common form and it accounts for somewhere between 16-80% of dementia cases. Alzheimer's specifically though attacks memory and then it gradually affects other brain functions. So somebody with Alzheimer's might not just forget again about an event, they might eventually forget how to drive altogether. Or they might not recognize familiar places or even family members.

It sounds like your dad's behavior is different because he's actually showing overly careful planning and pretty consistent with his logic, even though you may not agree with his logic. So he's not necessarily forgetting things or getting confused, kind of the opposite. He's actually thinking way ahead and maybe over problem solving, even if he might be over planning quite a bit.

He's remembering the events, he's actually planning for them, and then he is going to execute that plan successfully, whether you like it or not. So that seems to indicate that all signs that his cognitive functions, they're working, but with quite a bit more caution than before. And so now we can talk. We've got the table set with anxiety.

We've kind of maybe ruled out Alzheimer's or dementia. While his increased cautiousness and his planning are going to seem like a whole lot, it's actually pretty normal when it comes to aging. So it's more about his trying to adapt to what he's going through than necessarily his deterioration or his cognitive of decline. And of course, I don't know him, but this is what comes to mind.

But you can almost think of it as your dad is upgrading his safety features rather than his system breaking down. But again, without knowing your dad specifically, that's what I think may be happening. But let's assign some meaning to it just so that we can talk more about some of these concepts of the way that you show up different. If we go with probably the most straightforward reason that I think is probably going to sound maybe too general, is that your dad is just trying to feel safer.

You know, think about it like carrying an umbrella on a sunny day. You probably won't need it, but having it makes you feel more prepared. And you might know somebody that does, they're over, they're overprepared. They, they're always asking if you need a toothpick or a Tums, I don't know, but they've got stuff all the time.

When older folks do things like arriving really early or parking where they can easily leave, they're creating their own safety net, like having a backup plan that helps them feel more relaxed. And in psychology, we call it the safety seeking behavior. But really, it's just your dad's way of maybe trying to stay in his comfort zone. Now, I've got three other thoughts, three other theories. I think they'll maybe get a little bit more specific as we move along.

Because next up is something that we call environmental mastery. But it's really just about feeling in control of your surroundings. And if there's one thing the human brain really wants, well, there's a couple. But certainty. And we want to know, we want to know, we want to know what's going to happen. And so we're going to overprepare because we're hoping that that will provide us with certainty.

Now, I think one of the greatest things that you can develop is a concept called psychological flexibility. Which means I'll go there, I will park and things will happen. Some days I might have to sit in the car for a while and then that's my opportunity to be incredibly present, have conversations with the people that I love. Last night for example, I worked late, I was stopped by a Taco Bell, I got pinned in in the drive-thru and we were not moving.

I pulled up my phone, I watched the end of a very good basketball game, I watched a preview to help me understand what I need to know before going to see a movie with my son Jake and his girlfriend Taylor. And I just thought this is happening. And there were people you could tell that were getting agitated that were ahead of me in the line. They continually just kept looking out their car window and you could tell that they were getting frustrated or upset, but they were stuck.

And I just thought, man, bless their heart because that is a rough place to be. And they had people in the car talk to the people. Everything can be this opportunity for you to be very, very present. So where was I with that? But this need for control, this need for certainty. Maybe it is more about him feeling in control of his surroundings. Some people need to have their desks organized, not me, but they need to just before they can even work.

But your dad might just feel like life's getting a little bit more unpredictable. So he's trying to take control of what he can manage and he's creating his own home field advantage in public spaces by getting to places early and choosing specific parking spots. And that probably helps if he gets a little more exercise. But then there's something that happens to all of us as we get older.

And this is where I think we're probably getting more toward if I really had to guess, that our brains actually start processing things a little bit slower. Like when you're using an older computer and it takes a little bit longer to boot up or to open up programs. So your dad might actually be noticing that he needs more time to take in his surroundings or make decisions or react to unexpected situations.

And I think too often, we just don't know what we don't know about what it will feel like to get into that position. I've worked with several elderly clients and I remember one in particular that she was starting to have some real memory issues. And we had really good rapport built. And unfortunately, she has since passed. But amazing woman, RIP Vivian. But I remember talking with her and she would get really frustrated and sad about some memory issues.

And we had a great conversation one time where I said, oh, it's so easy for me right now in the position I'm in to think, you know, when I get to that point, then I hope I can just say, oh, okay, I forgot. No big deal. And just use a little bit of self-deprecating humor and know that I'm trying my best. And she was just so brilliant when she shared with me, she said,

you know, I can honestly say I used to think that. But she said it just happened so gradually that you start just forgetting little bits of things here and there until then you have some pretty big gaps in memory. And she said at that point, it feels a little bit scary. And I remember just being able to feel the, I don't want to say tension, but just feel it, feel that in the air. And it was a real powerful moment because she was being incredibly vulnerable.

And here I was sharing what I knew was probably not something that was as easy as I made it out to be in my mind. And then her actually validating me and saying that she had actually felt that way or thought that as well, but here she was in this position and that the whole process of aging had just seems like it just came up on her.

Man, I'm glad I got to mention her in this episode. I think that it's difficult to know what it will feel like when someone starts to feel like they have less control or maybe their body is starting to betray them, their memory is starting to betray them. That probably does feel scary. I don't know at times if the person is even willing to acknowledge or admit that to themselves.

So they're just more reacting in that moment and trying to do whatever they can to have control rather than being able to really sit with some discomfort and then take that in and be okay with the uncomfortable. Because at that point, you're going to have to give up a little bit of control. The person in that situation might have to say, okay, I am going to acknowledge that I do feel a lack of control and I am wanting certainty. And so I'm going to have to hand the reins over to you.

And okay, we'll park closer. But if we get stuck in the parking lot, who knows? Maybe now all of a sudden the person's worried about, and I'm not even trying to make jokes, everything from bladder control, no anxiety, medications, what if I don't eat my blood sugar? So there could be a lot of things that are bubbling under the surface of why. Somebody is on the outside talking about a certain behavior that they really need to have happen.

Maybe he's getting there early, gives himself plenty of time to buffer, process everything without feeling rushed or pressured. Finally, I think that there's increased anxiety if we stick in this realm about things we can't control. Because when we were younger, we tended to bounce back quickly from any kind of unexpected situation. But as we age, I think those surprises feel more overwhelming. So your dad might be experiencing more of the what-if scenarios.

What if we can't find parking? What if it's too crowded? What if we need to leap quickly? What if I do get a flat tire? What if there's an earthquake? What if? Who knows? But by planning ahead and arriving early, he's basically giving himself cushion against all those worries. If you look at it that way, those behaviors are actually a little more common in older adults.

And so while they can be incredibly annoying, they may not necessarily be something to burn as much emotional calories on for yourself. So it might just be your dad's way of adapting to changes that he's experiencing and trying to keep himself feeling secure and in control, yet while not necessarily being willing or even very aware of how vulnerable he needs to be to be able to express that to somebody. The question I think that was asked was, what do I do about it?

Because that is the question. Let me just share some practical advice for anybody

that's dealing with this kind of situation to hopefully help you keep your peace of mind. I'm going to go over some things that are going to sound overly simple.

Things like try to shift your perspective a bit. Maybe do a little reframing. Instead of seeing this behavior as something to fix or to worry about, see that, oh man, a little empathy here.

That would be difficult if that's where this person is and how they need to show up in order to feel like they're okay. Or maybe it's more about his way of trying to stay independent. And I think when you can reframe things, sometimes it can become a little less frustrating. For example, if he wants to leave super early for your son's game,

maybe you use that extra time for some one-on-one conversation. It can actually turn into be a little bit of a special part of the outing. And sometimes you have to be more intentional. There are some journals or books that I've seen recently out that are interviews of your elderly parents because they love doing a life review.

And you'll probably find out some things you didn't know. And it might be this thing that you can now have that you can turn back to, heaven forbid, down the road when maybe they aren't around. You could also take a look at trying to meet him halfway. If he wants to arrive

an hour early to a restaurant, maybe suggest 30 minutes early instead. That might sound something like, hey, dad, I know you like to get to these things early. What if we aim for six instead of 530? And that still gives us plenty of time to get settled. And this hopefully would validate his need while keeping things reasonable or better for you.

I think it goes without saying that this may also be a pick your battles situation. So if backing into parking spaces makes him feel more secure, then is that actually worth challenging? and here's where I'll throw deep psychology in or do you have a deep insecurity of backing into places? If so, then hey, here's a chance for you to self-confront, grow or get a third-party add-on backup camera.

But now if he's insisting to get everywhere two hours early to everything, that's when you might want to start having that gentle conversation about finding a middle ground and we'll talk about boundaries here in a little bit. But most importantly, I do think it is fair to say take care of yourself in the process because I think it can be really exhausting if you feel like you have to manage somebody else's anxiety, even when it's your dad.

And let's talk about boundaries. And I think it's so important anytime I can to explain boundary versus an ultimatum. So an ultimatum is, hey, I need you to know I have a life too. And I can't just be getting everywhere an hour at a time. A lot of times people think, see, I set a boundary. No, you gave an ultimatum.

And there's that wonderful psychological concept called psychological reactance or the instant negative reaction of being told what to do. So when someone is being told this is what they need to pay attention to, we naturally say, I will not be paying attention to it. It's basically when somebody is having a panic attack and the person near them saying, you need to calm down. It's like the brain is saying, that is exactly what I will not do.

It's why thought suppression doesn't work. Right now, no one, no one at all, think of a koala bear wearing my, if you're watching on YouTube, my virtual couch hat. Do not think about that. And I would imagine everybody has thought about that now. It is a built-in defense mechanism. When we are told what to do, we will think, I will do anything other than that. I was speaking recently and I was talking about how immature this is.

And I gave an example where let's say that my dad was saying, you know, you know what you need to do already. My brain is one, not going to do it. That's immature. I'm going to own that. But if he were to say, you know, you really need to get a handle on your finances and really look at having a budget. Now, even though I know that is absolutely correct, there is no part of me that thinks that's a bad idea.

But what the psychological reactance does is it says, I will now create a narrative in my mind. Like, well, you know, I've read that people that have budgets, they actually don't live as long. Now, I've actually not read that, but you can see where your immature brain wants to do anything other than what somebody is saying, here's what you need to do. So boundary is if you need to be there two hours early, then I'm not going to be able to go because that's a me thing.

I'm able to take charge of what a boundary is. Now, boundary doesn't mean that the person is going to say, OK, I really appreciate you holding a boundary. No, usually they will try to push buttons to get you to give in and say, OK, I guess I'll just go hitchhike. There, I'll start walking now, I guess. I know it's only 110 degrees. The buttons will be pushed to try to get you to step over across your boundary. But boundaries actually start to help you feel more in control of your own life.

And it will pressure the relationship for growth. So if you are maintaining your boundary, then you can say, well, you can wait for me. I would love to go with you, but I'm going to be able to go an hour before instead of two. Or, well, hey, here's a chance to learn Uber and I can take you home. And then if he, I'm going to go to the yeah, but he's like, okay, well, I've heard all kinds of bad stories about what happens when I'm in an Uber.

But I guess if you're willing to take that chance, because again, pushing those boundaries to try to get you to relax your boundary. Boundaries are always going to be tested. Then ultimatums are going to be very intentionally disagreed with. So boundaries are important. I want to acknowledge to the person who is asking the question, remember the fact that you're dealing with this really thoughtfully because you're asking questions because so many people would just shut down.

So just asking the questions, I really do think shows how much you care about your dad's well-being and also in maintaining a good relationship with him, which opens the door for something I love talking about as much as I can. And that is the concept of differentiation.

And for differentiation, I turn to the work of a gentleman named David Schnarch who talks about the concept of being differentiated or differentiation is people's ability to balance humankind's two most fundamental drives, our desire for attachment and connection on the one hand and our desire to be an individual and direct the course of our own lives on the other. And that part refers to the ability to hold onto yourself when important people in your life pressure you to conform.

Differentiation, Schnarch says, yields emotional autonomy. And that's the basis of a healthy interdependence and the foundation for real intimacy and stability in long-term relationships.

So why I think understanding the concept of differentiation is so important is you are trying to maintain a balance for attachment and connection with somebody you care about, but also to hold on to your own sense of self, your own autonomy and well-being, which is so important to have you feel like you're not betraying yourself. This is a normal part of being a human being, and especially when you're in relationships.

And this is why earlier when I talked about it's difficult to feel like you have to manage other people's anxiety, is that when people get angry and then they basically diffuse their problem into the relationship, and they're saying, all right, who will pick this up? And I imagine you, the person asking the question, is the person that typically feels like they have to pick up everybody's emotions, everybody's anxiety, and they have to take it upon themselves and they have to solve it.

And they may do that and they may do that often, but that is emotionally exhausting. Typically, that is the person who is more empathetic, who is more sensitive. It's going to feel a lot bigger to feel like I have to manage my dad's emotions. I have to do everything. I have to drop everything I'm doing in order to make it easier or better for him, because if not, he'll get really angry.

But the fact that he gets really angry if I don't manage his emotions is because that's his survival instinct on ways to get his needs met at the expense of yours. And I don't think that that's some nefarious thing that he's been plotting to do. It's just part of the relationship dynamic. And so now that you become aware of it, now it's time to grow through the relationship.

So if you have stuck around this long, I think this is now the extra credit section of the podcast because I want to go deeper into David Schnarch's four points of balance for becoming a differentiated individual. And this is, I think, what really will provide you with a very mature approach to managing any kind of challenging family dynamic or relationships with friends, you name it. So there's four points of balance. The first one, Schnarr says you have to have

a solid but flexible sense of self. And what does that mean? It means that you know who you are without needing somebody else to tell you. It means that you are able to confront yourself to become a better person. You are authentically yourself in the face of pressure from other people to be something that you're not. And you're learning how to validate yourself instead of relying on external validation.

Remember, the external validation is that if I'm frustrated or I don't feel good about this situation, I need you. I need somebody else. I need an external person or thing to make me feel better. And so you can see that you're handing that power over to somebody else. Now, what your dad to the person that wrote in, what your dad is doing is saying, I don't feel good about this situation.

And so I need you to validate me. I mean, I need you to tell me that you are fine doing all these things because that will, that will make me feel better. But differentiation and why that we look at this as a, it's a mature way to handle adult relationships is because ultimately I'm going to learn about myself in this relationship.

And so the solid, flexible sense of self in this situation, what that's going to mean, it means maintaining your own emotional stability when dealing with dad's behavior. So for example, you might think, okay, I understand dad needs to get there early. And while I don't share this need, I can stay calm about it without taking on his anxiety. I have a solid.

The flexible sense of self, the flexible part is if I'm just saying I don't want to do it because I just am being immature or I just don't want him to get away with everything he wants, but really I'm fine getting there early. I don't mind backing in to the spaces, then that's just a way that I'm just getting rid of my discomfort, that I am just being immature.

This solid but flexible sense of self means I can listen to his concerns about parking and timing and all those things without either dismissing what his experience is or even absorbing all this as my own worries. So I hear you. I hear you, dad. So that second point of balance is called a quiet mind and a calm heart. So that's the ability to self-regulate and self-soothe your anxiety, your frustrations, your anger, fear, without expecting somebody else to do that.

And that's about staying level-headed. It's even if dad's anxiety is getting really high, you know, it's rising because it's about getting somewhere on time, which means extremely early. And instead of getting frustrated or anxious yourself, you practice staying centered and grounded with your thoughts. Okay, dad's need to arrive early does not have to disturb my peace. This comes with a free yoga mat and a ponytail and you go zen. I can respond thoughtfully rather than react emotionally.

This might mean taking some deep breaths, swearing up your shoulders. When he starts expressing worry about being late, even though you know we have plenty of time, I have a quiet mind and a calm heart. Which then leads to the third point of balance that Schnarch talks about, this grounded responding, which means managing now your reactivity. You're not going to overreact and get all upset and just get angry and frustrated and shake your hands and just say, oh my gosh, this is just ridiculous.

But also not emotionally distancing yourself, not playing small, whether that's nagging or stonewalling or paralysis or anything like that. So this grounded response. So once you know that you're okay, that solid and flexible sense of self, I can quiet my own mind and calm my own heart.

Now I can respond and be grounded, which is such a mature adult response, which is wild because at times this is where you might recognize that you now are taking on almost the parental position on your own parents, which is something that when you're younger, that just seems pretty bizarre, but that is part of life.

And so in this situation, grounded responding, this is where you respond to dad's behavior based on your values, your wisdom, not just reacting to his anxiety or his fear or his anger. So you might even say something like, dad, I know you're worried about parking. I've thought about this. And while I want to respect your need to arrive early, I also need to balance this with my commitments. So could we discuss maybe what a compromise would look like? What would work for both of us?

So notice how this response acknowledges his concerns. I'm not trying to tell him he's ridiculous or wrong or anything, but I'm also maintaining my own boundaries. And then last but not least, the fourth point of balance, Schnarch calls it meaningful endurance, which involves increasing your tolerance of pain for growth because now you're operating out of the best of yourself. You're owning your own stuff. You're not just projecting everything onto your dad in this situation.

Man, I'm so mad because he. No, if I'm mad, I got to take ownership of that. Man, I am mad. And so I got to take ownership of that and then take responsibility for change. Meaningful endurance. Growth comes from discomfort. So you put all these pieces together and you can learn how to be more calm and grounded and present and validating, even though you can still have all of your own thoughts and feelings and expectations.

And some of the tricky stuff too is, yes, it will feel at times like he is getting away with something because if I need him to understand how frustrated I am, that's my need for validation. How about, I know, I know how frustrated I am. And so that's informing me that I need to set a boundary or that's giving me a reason to work on something else like staying grounded and trying to be more curious about his experience.

And then boy, talk about bonus, double bonus, triple bonus, extra credit of the podcast today. I want to talk about a snarch concept that I am fascinated by right now. And you can put it in any situation, not just what we're talking about now, but he calls it constructing your crucible.

So let's say that you're continuing to express yourself and you feel good about where you're coming from and dad is still just not having any of it, not willing to budge at all. Schnarch calls that gridlock. Both of you are pushing each other to meet and accommodate your needs. Nobody's budging. And it's a place where neither person can really validate themselves because of these negative reactions from the other person.

So maybe you might even want to step out of the situation with your dad and think about this with a spouse, with an adult child, with somebody that you just feel like you're at a gridlock, you're stuck. Well, Schnarch says you construct your crucible. What is a crucible? So think of a crucible like a special container used in chemistry. It's designed to take on, withstand really, really high heat and pressure. And the material that you put in the crucible, they're going to change into something.

In this relationship with your dad, the crucible is the emotional and psychological space where growth and transformation can happen, even though it's uncomfortable. So there's going to be pressure. There's going to be heat. You've got these components, these chemicals in this crucible, this container. And you're going to grow. You're going to change. Things are going to transform and happen through this crucible. What makes this situation with your dad a crucible? We can't easily escape it.

These are regular events. These are your son's sporting events. These are family dinners. And it involves your dad. And you care about your dad or you wouldn't have written into a podcast person. And then the behavior keeps happening. And so you really need to find a way to deal with it. You are constructing this crucible.

And it creates pressure. your dad's anxiety about timing, your frustration with his needs, the clash between different needs, his early arrival, your schedule, the emotional tension that it creates. These are other additional reasons why this is a crucible. This is putting these situations into this container. And now what are we going to create from it? What's going to come out of this? And it forces growth, this whole situation. You can't just ignore it.

Simple solutions like, hey, dad, don't worry about it. Those things don't work. And both people are most likely going to need to adapt. So it's going to push you to develop new ways of handling stress and handling relationships. So I hope you're catching this vibe. You can grow and make this a you thing in any situation. With this specific situation, the crucible is created when dad wants to arrive super early. You feel that's excessive.

Neither of you can just win. I'll throw some air quotes on there. You both need to find a way through it. You have to stay in the relationship while you're working it out. So the Crucible comes so valuable because it forces you to develop better emotional regulation. I'm going to learn how to do that quiet mind, calm heart thing. Pushes you to communicate more clearly instead of just overreacting or playing small.

I need to learn to set boundaries. I need to learn to communicate like a mature human being. In my other podcast, Waking Up to Narcissism, I talk so much about emotional immaturity. And so when I get angry and I lash out or if somebody talking to somebody earlier today and they punch a wall or they do something like that, that's like a little kid. that's not a mature adult human being.

You're going to learn to become a more mature human being through this crucible that you create because of this wonderful opportunity that your dad's given you. And so it pushes you to communicate more clearly, helps you maintain boundaries, and it challenges you to grow stronger rather than just trying to solve a problem in the moment. No, we're playing the long game. It's like a pressure cooker and the pressure is not comfortable and we are so wired to avoid discomfort.

In my marriage course, my magnetic marriage course, I talk often about where we're so afraid of things getting to a point of contention that we avoid tension altogether. And I think this is similar. We want to alleviate our discomfort by getting angry, withdrawing, but that is where the growth is. The pressure is what causes transformation. But the key is learning to stay in that pressure without either exploding, getting angry and reactive, or escaping, always giving in to avoid conflict.

The crucible here isn't just about managing dad's early arrival anxiety. It's about you. So using the situation as an opportunity for personal growth and then also relationship development. So how do you approach it? We'll wrap it up. Stay in the discomfort. Instead of avoiding the tension, like always giving in, getting super early or escaping it, like letting dad go on alone, you deliberately choose to stay present in these uncomfortable moments.

For example, if dad starts expressing anxiety about being late, even though you're planning to arrive 30 minutes to an hour early, rather than accommodating his or dismissing his concerns, then you might say, I noticed this is uncomfortable for both of us. So let's kind of sit with it for a minute. Let's talk about what's really going on here. We also are going to face the core issues. The crucible invites you to look below the surface, deeper than that surface level behavior.

It isn't just about arrival times. It might be about. His growing awareness of his mortality, your shifting role from child to caregiver, both of you dealing with the loss of control in all kinds of ways, the challenge of maintaining autonomy while staying grounded. And one of the benefits of this crucible is it creates growth-promoting tension.

Instead of problem-solving, you might say something, again, like, Dad, I know you want me to arrive there an hour early with you, and I want to honor my own needs about time management. So that tension between us is uncomfortable, but maybe it's helping us both grow. How can we both use this situation to understand each other better? And one of the best things you can do is learn how to hold steady, stay grounded through this whole process.

If dad says something like, you don't understand how important this is, instead of defending yourself or giving in, you don't understand what I go through on a day to deal with you, old man. But you might respond instead with, you're right, I might not fully understand. And I can guess that you might not fully understand where I'm coming from either, and that's okay. But I'm willing to stay here in this discussion with you until we figure something out that respects both of our needs.

And then use that pressure to promote growth. The crucible creates pressure that can lead to new solutions. Things like, dad, the situation's challenging. Instead of finding a quick fix, what if we use this as a chance to develop new ways of handling different needs? We can even try multiple things. We're both adult human beings and we can try. We can try to go a little bit earlier.

We can go different ways. If you want to try going on your own and I meet you there, the thing is we can try all kinds of things because I'm willing to be uncomfortable while we figure this out.

I think the final takeaway about creating the crucible not rushing to solutions. Staying present with the difficulty. Use intention for growth instead of trying to get rid of it. Work on yourself while in a relationship with your dad. Find ways to maintain connection without fusion, without melding into each other, without becoming enmeshed and grow your capacity to hold steady under pressure. And this whole approach will turn a very simple conflict about arrival times.

Part of me wonders, are you still happy that you wrote in 45 minutes later into an opportunity for both you and your dad to grow in your ability to handle anxiety, respect differences, maintain independence, deal with change, navigating parent-child relationships. The Crucible is not about winning. It's not about getting your way. It's about using relationships, natural tension to foster growth, deeper connections.

And that is the answer to how you handle your dad wanting to get there a little bit early. Thank you so much for writing. If anybody else had thoughts, questions similar to this listener, please write me at contact at TonyOverbay.com. Feel free to share this podcast episode with anybody who you feel might benefit. You can find the video of this on my YouTube channel. Look for Virtual Couch on YouTube, and I'm sure there will be clips on Virtual

Couch on TikTok and Virtual.Couch on Instagram and YouTube shorts. Thank you so much. I hope everybody has a wonderful week. I will see you next time. Music. Distance don't explode allow the understanding through to heal the legs and hearts you. Music.