The VD Clinic – Episode 56 – ‘The Devil’s Backbone’ and Mexican Gothic

Thank you.

to another episode of spooky vd clinic which that sounds like a whole kind of other horror yeah you know In fact, the media can get stoop, but spooky. The syphilis when things start falling off. Yeah, you know, all of a sudden your nose isn't there. That's not ectoplasm. No, it's not. Well, I don't know. We really defined it. That's true. That's some Slimer fan fiction right there. Anyway, on another note, I am one of your hosts, Vanessa, with me as always, Darren. Say hello, Darren.

hello everybody and our special guest iris hi everyone hello hello i'm so excited to be here well i you know i'm excited to have you because i I think we've recorded together once and then... Other times I keep being brought into shows that you're on regularly when you can't make it. So it's like I'm the Irish substitute. There you go. Hey.

i'm not complaining but and i've always wanted to have you on here so that's awesome that's awesome yeah i think we did uh vampiros lesbos yes we did and that was so good yes a lot of fun ages ago oh yeah um yeah iris do you want to tell everybody about what you do on a

what podcasts you do on a regular basis yeah sure so i am uh regularly on bb and bc podcast and uh that's basically mike murphy mark searing and myself We basically podcast about, you know, cult classics, grindhouse exploitation, drive-in, B-movies. uh see if you want to take a listen to us we are at exploitationfilm.com and we recently did uh pretty maids all in a row With Rock Hudson and Angie Dickinson. It was just amazing. And then we are going to be recording. The Mystics of Bali.

Next Saturday, which I am looking forward to very much. And then I occasionally show up with Gary on the Cinnamon Beef podcast. And I'm actually recording tomorrow. We're going to be watching two giallos that I just finished watching and I can't remember what they're called. Which is typical for me because I always watch my movies at...

You know, the last minute so I can remember what I'm talking about. So, yeah. Oh, yeah. Here we go. It's Death Carries a Cain and So Sweet, So Dead. Those are going to be fun. And you can find the Cinema Beef Podcast at Legion Podcast. What is it? You guys are Legion? Yeah, we're at Legion as well. okay yes okay so you guys are on legion too so you can find them you can find us there and we do lots of fun stuff uh gary hill and suzanne and myself

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Occasionally, you know, the theme warriors, I think we're kind of like a little hiatus right now. It's kind of hard to get four people to have time on the same day. in i think two different time zones it's just kind of hard but yeah so far so good yeah no i i

I understand completely. I will say since the pandemic began, I feel like even Darren and I, just the two of us sometimes. it's just hard isn't it it's just things have gotten more complicated and we're we've we're not doing as many shows uh as we did for a while so yeah i understand oh yeah it's the same with us um you know and you're doing multiple shows i mean darren he has he has his own show too i mean oh wow right on so

Yeah, more power to you, man. When you can do it, you can do it. Neither of them, neither this nor the other one are weekly. I don't have it in me to try to do that. Oh, no, man. No. But that's a lot of commitment. Lots. But yeah, I'm excited to talk about this book. Yes. You know, well. every october you know we're spooky season people all year round kind of yes anyway um as i know you are we just turn it up a bit on you know in october right exactly um no i'm not going to uh

one horror movie every single week this month in the theater. I promise I'm not. It's like somebody asked, I think it was Robin from We Saw the Devil. She posted, so when do you get ready for, you know, Halloween? Yeah. I posted November 1st. Yeah, exactly. It's true. I mean, it's all year round, right? Yeah. Yeah. Goth girls rule. I know. My mom just got me a little mini skull.

Waffle iron. Oh, how cute. And perfect for a Brooklyn apartment where you have no storage. Exactly. It's just like two feet of counters and that's it. Yep, that too. Anyway, so the, you know, I've kind of been wanting to change things up a little bit and get us.

into some different kinds of tales than we've heard in a while. And this time I wanted to go with kind of a theme of uh latinx like ghost stories for for our october and um

Today we're talking about the 2020, we're doing a really recent book too. Yeah. mexican gothic by silvia moreno garcia and then we are talking about guillermo del toro's the devil's backbone so Yeah, we, um, we drew, I mean, it's, they both, yeah, have these ghost elements and... So Mexican Gothic. Have any of you read this before? Or was this your first read? This is the first read for me.

Same. Okay. Although you've been talking about this since at least the summer. Yeah, well, it came out last year.

And she won all these awards for this book. And she... she's mexican she's considered mexican canadian she grew up in mexico but has her adopted home is canada for her adult life and and so this is the author and so she's been working in quite a lot of genre like short stories like editing even like a a jewish mexican literary review which i'm like that sounds awfully specific but i don't know um and they're like one i i read that one of the

one of the editions of book or like short stories or whatever that she like published with this publishing company is a collection called Fungi. that's interesting since mushroom plays such a big part in this uh yeah which is which is described as a collection of fungal fiction so i find that and that was in 2013 so obviously seeing that and in this book

There's something interesting there. But I found that out when I was reading a little about her. But everything that she's written has been kind of... been involved with editing wise and publishing wise has been this kind of genre these different genre things and um you know there there's it's some of it out of mexico but um you know some of it internationally and then this book How I became aware of it is it was voted the 2020 Goodreads Best Horror Novel. Really? Yeah. So I read it in January.

Of 2021. Yeah. And as soon as I found that out and then I've been, I've been probably like, who can I talk about this with ever since I read it? And I guess we will... If you listeners, if you haven't read the book, I would say we're going to have to spoil some things, I think. Yeah. So. pause and come back later for the movie portion of the show but um yeah we do have to discuss

few things that are a little bit more spoilery I think to get into the nitty gritty of this and yeah this is I One thing that struck me with this is, I mean, the writing style, but obviously, but it was... Because it is such that, so reminiscent of the traditional Gothic kind of ghost story. Yeah. The British ones. The ones that are notoriously British.

Yeah. Wuthering Heights and, you know, the House of Usher and things like that. Well, even like Henry James. The turning of the screw. That's right. And even like. Carmilla, you know, things like that, that are just so British. And this... Having the British characters in it. Yeah, yeah. It lent itself very well. It really turns it on its head and having them as the colonizers, as the invaders, and as the negative.

Because there is kind of, there is not just kind of, there is that tone. It's very, very apparent. That condescension from the British people. in here when they are dealing with the Mexican and Indigenous people of the region. yeah it's just wow i mean that's the first thing that strikes me about this and i kind of that was that was that was it's apparent pretty quickly but it really made me just it made it pulled me in very quickly i don't know what about you iris

Well, I totally got slicked in really quickly, especially with the tone of, you know, a bit of a Po-ish tone to it. And I've been a huge Poe and Lovecraft fan. I think since I was introduced to it by my third grade teacher. And let me interrupt one moment. Sure. You mentioned Lovecraft. I mean, the author of this. Part of what she has co-edited is collections of Lovecraftian short stories. I see. You can tell. So I'm just, maybe that has some influence.

I'd have to say so. Well, anyway, go ahead with what you're saying. So, yeah, you know, I've always been such a fan of both writers and just a genre in itself. I mean. It's kind of funny that when you asked me about this, I was in the middle of reading a book called Mina, which takes up the story. So in Dracula, I know this is a completely different book, but it has something to do with this. Okay. That's fine. We're tangents around here all the time. All right, cool. So in the book.

Dracula. It is always the guy's side of this. Yes. Mina has a voice up to a point. Once they go after Dracula. Once they are in-country, as they call it, or on-continent, because, you know, England's off. Once they are in-continent, Mina's voice is completely shut down. You don't hear from her. She's not writing anymore very much. And you just don't hear her voice anymore. And it's always the got to protect the, you know, that helpless female.

The female who fell for this awful, awful con or this spell, she has been bespelled and enthralled because she's weak.

Which just pisses me off every time I read it, but it's a classic and I love it. Well, and it's interesting that you say that there because it's also there with Carmilla. exactly because camilla too except it's the predatory lesbian doing the same exact thing and that preceded dracula by what 20 years by 20 years anyway

And if you want to watch something really cool, I think it's on, it's either on Hulu or Netflix and it's called Marcella. It's Carmilla's story. Very, very good. Anyway, so the book Mina. Well, what it is, it's kind of taking Mina's perspective during this whole time of being in country and being... you know, how all the guys are just trying to protect her. And she's like, fuck off. I'm sorry. Can we say that?

Of course. Okay. Iris, you should know me by fucking now. I know, but you know, sometimes podcasts don't have explicit markers, so I just want to make sure I don't want to get you guys in trouble. And she's basically telling him to fuck off. I have come this far. And seriously, if you really think about it, they would not be that far if it wasn't for her.

right because she's that connection that they have to dracula because of her they know where she's at where he's at right that in the kind of the only reason in a way that they care about dracula Exactly. Dracula was fine when he was a good real estate client. Exactly. When he was bringing in the money, he was fine. That's all he was? Oh, I can certainly sell you a piece of real estate, Count Dracula. Finance, you know, it's all good. Money, money, money.

That's interesting. I'll have to read that. There is that. And then it goes into her life with Jonathan now. Jonathan, of course, has taken over. the solicitors you know company or you know the business then it's her she has lived this life and has felt this power surged through her. And now she has to squelch it all because now she has to be the proper English woman, the wife of a solicitor. Yeah.

And so she finds a lover. And it is an extremely interesting book because a lover finds out who she is and what happened to her. Yeah. And he is an extremely narcissistic man who wants to. Quote, unquote, live forever. Yeah. So they exploit each other. And it's a fascinating read. I will send you the author's name because off the top of my head, I don't have it. But she also has a book about the fall of the House of Usher, but from Madeline's side. Is it Madeline?

Or Marilyn, the sister. I don't remember. At the House of Usher. But it's her point of view. So I have that book too. I was able to find the actual books. And I think I paid like... 60 dollars for them i don't care for all three um but anyway you know it there's all this a lot of that in the these gothic these ancient gothic Stories is where the girl is. She's a damsel in distress. But she knows how to get things done. Either.

By manipulating the men around her. Or with money. Either way. And. Naomi is very much. That. female in this book. And she even says that. Yes, she knows exactly how to manipulate the men around her. Her daddy's got money. She's got money. She's from high society in Mexico City. So she knows how to do what she needs to do to have her daddy wrapped around her finger.

her boyfriend wrapped around her finger and when she gets out into the country with the doyles at high place she really doesn't have that advantage And if anything, the Doyles look at her as a piece of meat and basically a vagina. That's what she is to them. Yeah. Because with her, you know, it's kind of like Eddie Izzard says, you know, you got to separate the genes.

I know, I was just thinking about the royal family in the UK. Exactly, you know, like scraping the bottom of the pile here, you know. You can only marry so many cousins. Exactly, exactly.

and um and it just had so many elements like you had a little bit of the elements of house of usher you had a little bit of elements of withering heights uh turning up the screw You had a little bit of Poe thrown in there. Definitely a lot of Cthulhu mythos in there, in the book itself, which I thought was just fascinating. And, you know, it makes me kind of wonder.

If she has a background in botany, being that you mentioned that she had these short stories about fungi and then how fungi is central. That's actually a very interesting... She did get a master's in science and technology studies. But it doesn't say what the focus was when I looked it up. I'd be interested. I really wonder if she had just like maybe a minor in biology or just very interested in botany.

You know, because for the fungus or for the spores to play such an important role, it's really weird because it's what literally and figuratively what holds everything together for the Doyles. And for the story. Well, and yeah. And then like, it's not just, oh, you easily have these, these like scenes like where. okay, Francis is out there picking mushrooms and talking about different kinds of mushrooms or he's showing spore prints. Like the talking, the way talking about the spore prints.

I am the daughter of an entomologist. I grew up looking at insects under microscopes. Okay, there you go. And I had to sometimes look at plants under microscopes too. and i've seen fungi under microscopes like it's just how i grew up and yeah there was a you're right that would make so much sense And you know, talking about the fungi in this, think about many sci-fi stories we have had where spores come in.

It's spores, right? We've got Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the Triffids. What was that silly movie with Mark Wahlberg? where the plants were talking to each other and killing people. The happening. The happening. Thank you. There are so many stories where, you know, these things that we cannot see, these little things. And to me, I mean, using them under a microscope, extremely Cthulhoid, okay? I mean, here we have... I like elder things. You know, stuff that I've seen under the microscope.

So it's just how wonderful she just brings all these elements together. And not only that, but then you have the...

The colonizer racist view of the Doyles. The Doyles, they're in Mexico, but nobody speaks Spanish. I know. Right? Nobody speaks Spanish. Francis. Speak Spanish on the download. Right. Right. The, the help is English. Of course. So, and the doctor.

the doctor english english um so there's that family secrecy they don't trust the mexicans you know doctor right because you know it's kind of like um they're a step above you know racially and everything because when they're like well there's many beauties of you know your dark skin beauties and blah blah blah he starts talking about eugenics and all this other stuff and she's like fuck you

And she goes right back at him. He's like, whoa. And you're smart, too. Right on. So it's just amazing. And as women. Vanessa, I'm sure that you've come across this where if you show you're smart, you are no longer pretty. Yep. Or if you... Well, how many smart women who aren't so physically attractive will try to pretend they're dumb just to impress a man? Like, I saw that.

in school because i went to an all-girls school and at mercer the boys school my junior year some of those girls who had been making great grades until that year they dumb themselves down in order to be like in front of the boys me i'm like are you whatever i'm here to learn yes like thanks but no that's why the guys liked me like as a friend like we were always just like yeah whatever you see and that's the other point i was gonna make you're either and if you're seen as a as a peer

Yeah. You are no longer a girl. Period. Right. You're one of the boys. Right. Well, I mean, also, I wasn't interested in them in another way. Yeah, but, you know. Side point. But still, it happens where when I was in the Navy, I could keep up with the guys. So I was not seen as the female sailor or the girl in the shop. I was one of them. Oh, yes. You know, I was considered one of them. But here, you know, the Doyles, excuse me, they have such stations and such, you know, that.

aristocratic view of highborn and lowborn, you know, that cast. And it's very, very well seen in this. It plays such a good part in this, too, because when they very, very, very first showed up there and the priest. was trying to keep everybody safe and everybody, you know, trying to keep that tribe cohesive, he saw it as a weakness. And as soon as he could take over, he did. Because why? Because we have the misogynistic, patriarchal colonizer who is exploiting what he believes is a lower caste.

of people and that is so well played in here it's not beat over the head you know it's not like hitting you constantly and going these people are awful these people are awful but it's at sometimes it is so subtle That you're like, oh, that was a serious burn, you know, coming from either side. Right. And well, and also.

Then it interjects even these other things where it's like a dig at the Spanish because it's like, well, the Spanish were here first. And then when they did what they wanted to do with it and walked away. Exactly. They were like, oh no, the indigenous people have already been exploited. So I like also that it brought that point there because...

I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I recently rewatched the movie El Norte. Oh, God. Which, Darren, you're probably not familiar with that movie. You need to watch it, man. You need to do yourself a favor and watch it.

it's a it's from the 80s right 83 i think um definitely haven't seen it but i feel like i've heard about it it's mexican director but it's like Guatemala it's mostly Guatemalan I think actors some Mexican actors um into you know indigenous to cast which you know it's nice to see okay people that are playing these characters like that are guatemalan and of indigenous descent actually have those features and have the darker skin i mean like they don't

they're not spanish european white fair-skinned you know latina doctors like which that there's a time and place for that but This was specifically the story of those people coming from Guatemala into Mexico and then to the, you know, United States, like immigrating.

But even there, and what you see tinged up here, is that, well, you know, those Indians, they all look alike, kind of, from even those... The Mexican, you know, the Mexican people who are of more Spanish descent or, you know, or, you know, you know, whatever other.

European descent. Yeah, of other European descent. Because it's just... And it is true. I mean... i was oh dude it is so true i mean i've had conversations with my mom um where it is so ingrained you know into her generation They have a saying, you know, like if somebody is being like acting dumb or just being stupid or not being very smart.

They will say, well, stop being so indito. Indito is don't be such an Indian or an indigenous person. Because that's how they were seen. Then you have Latinos telling other Latinos. saying those things to them. So it is so, just so indoctrinated into generations, even into Generation X. Where if you're Hispanic and are seen as being indigenous, you're a lower caste. It's just not right. You know, so, and I'm like, mom, you've.

gotta stop doing that she's like well like no mom i go that's a very european way of seeing things just because you're being like a little indian like an indigenous person doesn't mean you're stupid Well, think of the things, think of the things we've done. Right, right, exactly. Oh, and you, another book you need to, another thing you need to read, Inventing Latinos.

By Laura E. Gomez. That came out, I think, last year or the year before. But I recently read that about how... The Latino identity has evolved and is still evolving. It is. And it's really, and I think it's evolving mostly because of.

uh generics and millennials trying you know wanting to have some sort of root and you know even to this day i was watching i'm on tick tock and i like to watch tick tock you know it's a thing um okay good um i was you're allowed okay thank you i mean you know i'm not one of the gen z's so anyway

uh and there is a spaniard who had made a tick tock just livid completely livid that we were take that the statue of Christopher Columbus that is in Mexico City. They are taking that down and putting a statue of an Olmec woman. I know. And this guy is just ranting of how can they do that? Of a good Catholic man who brought, you know, religion and morals and values and ethics to the savages that were.

sacrificing children and women. And I'm like, motherfucker, shut the fuck up. That was not happening. I was like, wow. And see, so of course, again. it is the winner who dictates history and it doesn't and that you know and that also narrative doesn't even come bring up the fact of What did Christopher Columbus do? Hello?

But he even got condemned by his own people for some of his crimes. Exactly, but you're not taught that in school, no, are you? And it's the same thing here with the Doyles. The Doyles are just kind of like, we brought... you know, prosperity to these people, these people, right? And how rescued them, we rescued them, we rescued it. And because there's nothing here now, they have nothing. And so it's just like, this this white savior complex right yeah

you know i'm sorry darren you can chime in and yes please i'm sorry i just realized no i was hoping you'd forget i was here i'm enjoying this conversation I know you do that sometimes, but please feel free to jump in. Yes. Yes. Don't let me hog up the whole time here. Well, I will say. That I live in a Columbus and people freak the fuck out when one of the like five Columbus statues came down. Oh, wow. And when.

The city council voted to start celebrating, you know, Indigenous Peoples Day instead of Columbus Day. and stuff like that people are just losing their minds and there's still i could probably find a statue of columbus and you know 20 minutes if i started walking it feels like and it's there's just that scraping that people in power and in control have over these ridiculous idols to terrible people

Well, it's, you know, there's all every couple of years, there's a petition to change the city's name after some famous person that didn't do as many bad things. But, you know, the only famous people. Yeah. I mean, what, like Randy, Macho Man Randy Savage is from here, and R.L. Stine, and the guy that directed Trick or Treat. And that's pretty much it for this. the city. They might have to expand it to let's name it after Devo. There you go. That's Akron though.

Yeah, but if they just want to do like the state, the capitals, the state capital is named after a better famous Ohioans or. Change it to Flavortown. The Guy Fieri's from here, and he didn't do as many bad things. There you go. Guy Fieri. Not that we know of. I mean, other.

yeah i guess but you know anyway uh oh i i also was getting a bit of a rebecca vibe from the book yes very much so that is such an astute like Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you just kind of like you got to protect, you know, and well, yeah, it's the Daphne du Maurier kind of.

like feel too because rebecca and like the birds has this way of building the tension too i mean like she wrote that short story um but in some other things and they all have that this same kind of sweeping thank you darren for pointing that out i i didn't even think about that but that is right on the money yeah you know florence She gives off very much that feel of the lady of the house and you can't touch this and you can't touch that and she's in charge of it.

Yeah, I get that. And Rebecca, God damn, that's another real good one, huh? But yeah, good, good one there, dude. Even with the guy who sweeps this girl off of her feet. And even though her uncle, which is Naomi's dad. didn't really like him but you know that's what you do as a girl at that back then you know you yeah virgil yeah virgil you know he he just comes in sweeps her away and never heard from again

You're here for your money and your genes. Exactly. Your money and your genes. Again, at that time, that's what women were used for. collateral collateral was it an expectation even if people weren't overtly saying it It was still very much implied. You know, and it still is. I mean, you know, think of there were transactions. There were transactions between two families. It's still very much chattel.

with the royal family i feel exactly you know i knew that it's soon as i mean like you saw that with like whatever the recent like Harry and William and those marriages and all that stuff. And like, as soon as the, everybody was like, I'll like say it was about the Kate Middleton getting married. I'm like, I was sitting there like, okay, I give her nine months to pop out a kid.

Exactly. I was like, I just knew because I knew that was all she was there for. And I was pretty much on the money. I don't care about those people in their lives. But I was kind of like, yeah, it's kind of sad that it's still that way. Yeah. I mean, how many of Henry's wives were, you know, went to the chopping block because, you know, they just couldn't pop out the boy.

It's always been like that. But, you know, it's that aristocratic sense of or the highborn sense of your lineage having to go on. because somebody needs to be in charge of the lower castes and not because it's good for them but it's because somebody needs to keep them in their place and you see a lot of that here

Another thing that I really enjoyed was, and again, a sense of maybe this girl has some botany in her background. Marta. And her, you know, the curandera, basically. Yeah, of the village. I really like that aspect in that element of, you know, she's there and she knew exactly what she was doing. So that means that she did have some idea of. the spores and what they were doing to people. And she had that ancient knowledge that so sad that is just slowly disappearing.

Because nobody can make money off of it. Well, absolutely. And she was the healer. You know, and even the Mexican doctor. in the village they were the catalyst that helped he he you know he had certain medical training from a more western point of view so to say but he still had the understanding and respect for the traditional

herbal home remedies i feel and marta he he knew enough about her that she wasn't going to steer somebody wrong right he he he like i said respect he knew that she knew what she was doing like that didn't step doesn't sound like something she would do right and what's interesting though is uh The doctor, he was from that village. So, more than likely, as a child, he was treated by her.

treated him a couple of times exactly and then you got noemi who is like you know catalina tells her you know go get this for me and noemi's like from that lady but what yeah because she is you know a mexican highborn um so her way of thinking again is more westernized so when she comes here and all of a sudden she is from feeling from a highborn cast From Mexico City. From Mexico City. Treated like a lower caste person by Europeans who don't even belong there.

I think it kind of put the shoe in the other foot and it made her change a little bit of the way she was thinking because even with her, with the dude that she was kind of like stringing along. Right. You know, she started.

the rethinking of like oh you know maybe that's kind of like a shitty thing to do maybe i should just let him go right you know and then uh her caring for francis how all that you know kind of switched around and everything it's just you see a a little girl walk into a situation that at the end She walks out a full grown woman, extremely mature and ready to take on the world. Well, because it forced it forces her to grow up.

and some things even though she's a really of adult age already but she's a spoiled little brat yeah um So it's, it's a, you know, it's, it's, which is an, a different way of telling this story, even I feel than other, if you have like a. a gothic tale where you have some woman who's gone through something yeah it still doesn't have this kind of feel where it doesn't give you a character that has this kind of

same transformation i feel but i don't know it's true and i think maybe that's what i i really enjoyed about this it's like it wasn't there was a damsel in distress but it wasn't the main character yeah and it ends up being the two women who take down this um I guess you could call it a regime or a cult of people. A cult, I feel, is more accurate. Yeah. And they take down this cult of people.

spoiler everybody yeah spoiler i'm sorry um but you know i'm kidding i'm kidding we said that at the beginning okay cool cool cool yeah and we usually spoil things anyway but this is probably the most recent thing like i said that we've ever read oh yeah yeah okay but you know these girls take care of these people in such a uh i wouldn't say violent but just a very finalized and very yeah a very final way

And I really, really enjoyed that. It wasn't like a guy came in to save the day at the end. He tried. But it was a girl who ended up doing everything that needed to happen. So, yeah, I really, really enjoyed that fact. And, you know, being that it was probably a female, it was a female writer. That's more than likely what it was happening, but. And then the vision.

of Ruth that kept coming up. Yes. Like, basically saying, like, as a warning, like... You don't understand. Like still. Like it's a woman. Trying to get another. Plus like a red flag. To another woman. Right. I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but if you really think about it, with all the bravado and all the chest thumping and everything.

that these men, the Doyles were doing. Well, not just the Doyles, but the doctor and Naomi's dad and everything. It comes down to a woman. It is the woman who holds everything together. And she is the one that perpetuates whatever the Doyles need.

to continue doing what they are doing. So without the woman that they so think is either lower caste or just a secondary... citizen collateral or transaction that is what holds them together yeah and and i love that because in in the end that's what it is it's it's it's that female that does everything for everyone. So I don't know. I just thought that was pretty, pretty cool. Absolutely. Absolutely. Darren? Yeah.

Like I said, I've been largely enjoying getting an early peek at this insight from you two.

I don't have a lot to add. Usually when I read Gothic stuff, usually I'm kind of bored until near the end. And then that's how I figure out whether or not. I like a book or not, at least literature wise. But this one didn't take as long. This one grabbed me in faster than. some of the others that I, that I attempted, you know, so I don't know a whole lot about the genre because of that. I mostly just read what people tell me to.

there because that way you know it's like like me and vanessa you'll get this it's like me with found footage movies i dislike so many that it's better when people who know me suggest one and um yeah cool yeah so yeah that's kind of how how it was and i was like man i'm i was having trouble getting it started and then Amanda actually got it out and she blasted through it in like a day. And she's like, you should really read it. So that made it two people who told me I should read the book.

i figured she would enjoyed it oh yeah

And it just seemed so gothic literature that at one point Noemi was like smoking a cigarette in the cemetery thinking about Mary Shelley. Yeah. Wasn't that awesome? Is it a clove cigarette? Let me know. Is it a clove cigarette? It had to have been.

well and they were expensive cigarettes though that she did point out but and i mean it was just there were little cheeky moments i felt i felt in there that yeah i just kind of yeah there were a lot of beautiful nods to the genre and to you know the major writers absolutely absolutely yeah

So, yeah, I think this was a great pick. Not that we're necessarily done, but I would say. If you're listening to this at this point and you haven't read the book for some reason. I think you should. Yeah. Or you can listen to it. That's what I did. I was listening to it while I was, while I was working. And I think it's a 10 hour listen, I believe. And I did it in a day.

It was just so good and so engaging. And of course, you know, the, the gal who was reading was also very, you know, you've got to have a good reader or else it's just kind of like. Yep. No matter how good the book is. Exactly. If the reader is reading like this and just doesn't have any, yeah, no, I can't listen to that. Or if they mispronounce the names. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, no, this gal was, I believe she's of, yes, she is of Latin descent. Her name's Frankie Corzo.

and yeah she she it was just like a perfect voice for knowing me in this whole thing so yeah it was really really good well the the authors

New book is a vampire book. Yes. And it looks so good. Yeah. Velvet was the night. I'm like, I'm there. Yeah. And then I believe she has another one. Well, she has quite a lot of things. Yeah, I think it's something where it is, it goes back to the ancient gods. Gods of Jade and Shadow? Yes, yes! I saw that one when I was looking around. Yeah, so I'm looking forward to that one too. I'm waiting for my credits to show up on audio.

But yeah, you know, it's a really engaging read. I mean, I could go on and on about this because there are just so many things that I really, really enjoyed in this. how it pulls in the the the not only the latin culture but also the hispanic culture right you know and that's something a lot of people don't know the difference between the Latin culture and Hispanic, you know, Hispanic is European. So it's that Spaniard European culture. Then you have the Latin culture, which is.

latin america which would be from mexico all the way down into chile and um a lot of people forget that right they they've when people think of of a Spanish-speaking person, they either go Hispanic or Mexican. One of the two. you know not that that's you know but to me i don't care if i get called mexican or whatever you know i speak spanish don't give a no my parents though my mom if you call her mexican she gets so

She's like, I'm from El Salvador. I was like, mom, we're all just one big, you know, it's just one big landmass, mom. But yeah, but yeah, that, you know, there is that distinction. The Hispanic culture is very Spanish centric as in Spaniard, you know, they're the. dark skin or dark haired, light eyes and light skin. Like my mother has a lot of Spaniard blood in her because she is, she's white with blue eyes and jet black hair.

And my dad, on the other hand, is still European because he has Armenian blood, but he has more indigenous blood because he is that olive chocolate. skin, dark eyes, dark hair. And then I ended up with his dark skin, my mom light eyes and her hair. And then my brother ends up with red hair because it's that Spanish, that Hispanic line, right? And I'm more of the Latino line.

yeah it's yeah and then again eugenics right here here we have genetics again how the mixture of things because um the patriarch how he was talking of The mixture, right, of that highborn blood, that European Hispanic blood with the lower but beautiful.

latino blood and they were making these gorgeous beauties this also plays into going back to the book i mentioned earlier inventing Latinos where you start talking about the mestizo people for then all of a sudden this different kind of class of people is created right right and it's a it's a class of people that doesn't belong anywhere right yeah it's kind of like the creels they were

They weren't white enough to be part of the white society, but then they weren't, but they were too white to be part of the people of color society. So there's this group. It is the same thing with the Mestizos. The Mestizos, you know, people call me Mestiza or my dad because you can see those that Hispanic and that Latino. uh genetics in in one person right light eyes dark skin dark hair so you know they are stuck in this this world where you're you're not part of either world

Only if they want you there. Which is kind of sad. I mean, you know, it doesn't happen to me, but I'm sure, you know, 100 years ago, there were outcasts on both sides. Because either you were too Spanish and you weren't part of the indigenous culture. And then, of course, the Spaniards were like, well, you're a bastard child. So go away.

well i wouldn't even say i mean in depending on where you're talking about i wouldn't even say a hundred years ago

You're talking, think about 50 years ago or 60 years ago when this book is supposed to take place. Yeah. This is supposed to be in the 1950s. Exactly. Yeah. So. so that's that's gonna be that really wasn't that long ago in some of these like some areas where this mentality was still so prevalent mm-hmm i mean and sadly as some people it's still more prevalent than we like to admit yeah um

We just maybe don't talk about it as openly. I mean, at least some of these people that... I mean, obviously we do have... some assholes that are storming the Capitol pretty much saying it right there in the open. Right. Right. But, but you know what, when you have permission to hate openly, you're going to do it. Yeah. And that's pretty much what they got. So anyway.

Anyway, we started going on a tangent and on a tangent for really Darren's other show, which is more the politics one. Although we get political here at times. Okay. It just happens.

But I mean, this book kind of, I mean, there really is this kind of underlying thing, but I feel like it's handled very well in that. It doesn't take away from any of the atmosphere of it being still a pure kind of gothic genre.

story right it's not preaching you yeah it's just kind of like you get two for one right it's extremely subtle it's a subtle undertone throughout the whole book yeah yeah and and there are times where you know it's not so subtle but it's because it's conversations that two characters have not uh the author pushing her

for lack of a better word, agenda on you. So, you know, that's another thing that I really enjoyed of this book. It's just, it's just these undertones in there. And it is not just the racism and the misogyny and everything, but just. the beauty of, of being, you know, this indigenous people and the beauty of being, you know, kind of like in a different world than everybody else. So, yeah, it's a very layered story, but these layers are just so fine and so almost muslin, you know.

It's there, but you can see through all these layers and still get this beautiful story coming out of basically a coming-of-age story in a very gothic way. True. And that's my two cents. Okay. Darren? Yes. Anything. Oh, no, I'm not. I'm not following that. Nope. Two thumbs up. Two spores up. There's people in the walls.

That's right. There's people in the wild. Hey, it can happen. I've been watching. Okay. I have been watching as... And I say watching. It means I have Discovery Plus and I throw on in the background a lot of these just things that qualify under paranormal and unexplained. And I've been having, even before October began, I started going through all of these ones for, you know, for, I think it was the series, A Haunting or whatever. Oh, those are good.

I mean, some of the effects are just so terrible. And the recreations are really just laughable. And you're like, really? It wouldn't have taken that much more effort for you to do that to make it look a little bit... you know more realistic but whatever you know that's just me um i digress but so it just i've been having some of these on and i catch these bits of these things of their images of like things coming out of the walls and stuff and so i've been sitting there and having that

like surrounded with me and then i'll sit there and i'll start kind of reading this yeah and it's just it does make so much sense and I've been to enough places. And I was going to ask both of you this. This is my last thing I wanted to say about the really much related to the book. I think, I mean, Iris, I think you.

said more than i yeah i could say that other than yeah thumbs up too and um but it's just i've had a few experience like supernatural experiences in my life and meant to enough places i haven't necessarily seen a ghost like apparition like body shape but um I have been touched by them. Woo! Yeah. And... And I've had them, you know, in different rooms with me. But... It's just... I get that. I really get this. I mean, the way that was described in this, it made me feel like...

The author is someone who has had that kind of experience at least once. Oh, most definitely, especially the way she tells of how Ruth shows up and, you know, it's that harbinger. Yeah.

Most definitely. Yeah. I mean, I've got a couple of stories of things happening. Like I was in Charleston and I had an opportunity to move off of the ship. that i was stationed on and to actually live in a house with a bunch of other sailors you know there was two other couples and they had an extra room so i was like

You know, I'll give you guys money. Can I have that other room? And they're like, yes, please. Okay. So, you know, moving in my stuff and everything. The guys were there. The girls weren't. and they were you know helped me move boxes and stuff it was just like this one really huge box in the bed so um at the time i was practicing more

pagan beliefs at the time. And I was kind of like smudging the room. I was cleaning the room. Something just didn't feel good in there. So I was just doing that. And as I'm doing that. This little boy peeks his head in. Just a cute as shit little kid with overalls. I remember the red and white striped shirt. He just pokes his head in and smiles. And I kind of looked at him and I smiled back.

And I was about to say, hi, come in. You know, kind of like, who are you? But I didn't. And then he kind of like brought his bed back and kind of like walked out of the area, never stepped into the room. And, you know, I continued doing what I was doing, putting stuff away, blah, blah, blah. So I finally done and I come out, I'm going to come out and sit with the guys and like, who's a little kid? And they both look at me like, what?

The little boy, blonde hair, blah, blah, blah. And their faces go white. And I'm like, what? Apparently. The guys had been messing around with... Okay, yes, they were messing around with the Ouija board. Doesn't mean that they were bringing something evil or anything. Agreed. They were talking to a little boy named Caleb.

Or so they thought. Or so they thought. And that's how he described himself. Exactly how I told them. And I was like, okay, glad I didn't invite the kid into the room. I'm glad I smudged. If you guys are going to do that, make sure you close the door when you're done. Yes. Don't leave the door open. But, you know, stuff like that. And then I've seen stuff where a little scarier stuff with. My parents are Baptist ministers. Well, that's enough said. Dude, I have seen.

Chairs just go from one side of the room like somebody threw them and go across the other side, heading towards my mom and something just, it just stops. Like there's a wall there. I've seen just the weirdest shit because of stuff that, oh man. So yes, I am a believer that there, I believe that there is something else out there.

Whether it's all friendly or not, completely up to you. But yeah. And from the way she talked about things and how she presented stuff, I very much agree with you. Yeah, she's had experiences.

yeah darren what about you yeah i'm trying to think of some good ones that didn't that weren't part of the time like in high school we used to regularly like take acid and go to the train station where uh you know like the lincoln ghost train supposed to go through there and there's uh a hobby shop upstairs train no Was it like the recreational usage of medicine or was it really a ghost? Right.

uh but there at that train station at a different time your your story iris made me think of one of my friends uh always saw a little boy at the top of the stairs where I guess a young boy had fallen out of the window and died. I never saw him. I was always looking for him. But yeah, I mean, a lot of stuff was mostly sounds. Like, being in my girlfriend's house alone, waiting for her to show up, and I would hear, like, the Jack in the Box cranking in the basement.

Oh, fuck no. Fuck no. I would be breaking up with that chick. I was like, done, bye. So I it seemed like a lot of times who or whatever it was like to fuck with me because there was lots of things like that. And then one time. A friend of mine was working when ghost hunting shows were all big. A friend of mine was working on a pilot for one. And we went and did a.

Hunt overnight in theater where there had been a fire and a lot of deaths and stuff way back in the day. And when I was up in the attic or the loft. Something threw something at me. And I ran for my life. I saw it. It looked like a coin. And I was alone. And I like they made us do. Everybody took all the shit out of their pockets before they went into the building. So it didn't fall out of a pocket and it went sideways, not down.

anyway um and there's a uh covered bridge about an hour and a half outside the city here where a different girlfriend was really into photography and trying to get stuff on uh film there was like a railroad bridge where somebody got hit by a train but near there is a bridge where you hear crying babies oh one of those yeah so like if you get like into a certain part you hear a crying baby i think i know what you're talking about yeah and um a lot of stuff creepy in the least a lot of stuff that

I'm not sure because a lot of my more explorative times was in high school on some sort of intoxicant. But I mean, there's this is Ohio. So. There is a cemetery where Civil War POW camp used to be, where a bunch of Confederates were killed. Oh, wow. pretty close to children's hospital so i mean one time when i was in the hospital as a kid i thought i saw a couple uh confederate

people walking around. But nobody saw. As soon as I got everybody to look out the window, nobody could see anything. So, yes, I also believe some shit can happen. You know, I think as long as you're open to it, I mean, you got to come with it with a little bit of skepticism, but not completely like, you know, oh, fuck no. Because it's those oh, fuck no people that all of a sudden have a very come to Jesus.

meeting sometimes yeah right oh and a different girl fucked around with a ouija board in a bad way and i did never go see her again Yeah, see, that's what I used to tell my son is crazy vagina and you just don't mess with crazy vagina. Just leave it alone. So, yeah.

uh you said smudging uh i only learned what that was a couple years ago really from from a native filmmaker mike marin uh he made a documentary called cinema red About natives and the horror film genre, fans and working in. But he made a really low budget horror movie called The Smudging. Oh, when he was living in Chicago. And it's about, yeah, trying to cleanse a building. It's very popular and very.

appropriated, I'd have to say. Yeah, a little bit. He is a native filmmaker. How many hippies do it? How many hippies do it? Let's be honest. But they just call it Burning Sage. yeah yeah yeah if i if i yeah if i saw a hippie just be like i'm gonna smudge like i don't okay i think we have to have a conversation Was the Manitou in? Oh, God, I love that movie, The Manitou. But anyway, lots of tangents here. Sorry. That's quite all right.

well it sounds like we would all recommend the book oh most definitely yeah um and sounds like we all kind of want to get read more from this author um yeah Yeah, you're, I mean, Iris, you said it pretty much right up top and there's so many different influences here in this alone that, I mean, you can only see where. she might go in in other work yeah yeah and i mean yeah like the the one about jade and what was that like in turn the the jade and um

Oh, the book. Yeah. And the old gods. Gods of Jade and Shadow. Yes. Yes. I'm extremely curious about that one. Yeah. Being that she's going to go into more of the. you know, the, the ancient Aztec Mayan type of gods. It's, it's, it'll be very, very interesting to read. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited about that. But I'm also excited about Velvet Was the Night because, well, vampires. Vampires. And we know Vanessa and vampires.

Okay. Well, Iris, we are going to take a break so we can refill our water. Are you going to be...

Have you decided yet if you're going to be joining us for our movie discussion or not? You know, it's been so long since I've seen this movie and I completely apologize not watching it. No, I think there was a miscommunication maybe on my part. Yeah, I thought it was like it was either going to be the devil's backbone or the book.

And I was like, well, I'll go for the book because I haven't read a good book in a while. But, you know, I mean, I can try to add to the conversation, but I don't think it's going to be much. It's perfectly fine. We had a wonderful discussion on the book. Like I said, I'm... i've been wanting to have you on for a while and i've been wanting to discuss this book for since i read it earlier this year for the first time yeah

No. And again, you know, it's been, it was awesome to be on, especially with this, you know, we watch a lot of movies and stuff, but I love this, this niche that you have where you have a book and a story. that go together and um it's extreme you know it's very much a niche there's not a lot of people doing this so you And I will say, we've slacked off a little in our reading this year just because of quarantine schedule, but...

Anyway, go ahead with what you're saying. No, I think it's, you know, you've cornered the market on this, so go for it. I guess so. We've got a weird name. Yeah. Well, and then there's that name. I was like, so, Hey, Lynn, I'm going to be recording. At the VD clinic. And she's like, excuse me? Is there something you need to tell me? It's Vanessa and Karen. She goes, oh, interesting name.

It works because I replaced a David. Yeah, you know. Exactly. And that was not planned on my part, but. Well, but it worked out, didn't it? It's faded. Right. Exactly. It was fate. So, uh, yeah, you know, I can, yeah, I can stick around. Okay, then great. Iris will be sticking around. So we are still going to take a break so we can get more water. Yes. Okay. So, we shall be back shortly. Alright. This'll keep you quiet. Oh, hi there. I didn't see you. You caught me cutting a new show.

I'm Beau Ransdell, and I'm one of the many creators you can find on Legion Podcasts. I said quiet! My fellow podcasters and I work hard to bring you the best in horror podcasting. But that comes at a cost. Wouldst thou like to live deliciously? Not that, but also yes. No, what I'm getting at is that there are server costs.

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And yes, thank you, Iris, for sticking around for our movie, which is The Devil's Backbone from Guillermo del Toro, 2001. wow i had not seen this in a while i have to tell you so um i know iris you said you didn't watch it for tonight today so but still it's almost like how i feel to some extent like because i was just like i i totally forgot that happened or whatever when i

Did see some of it. Garen, what about you? Had you seen this before? Or is this something that you watch that often? Because as far as like... Del Toro's films, this is not one that I watch as often as some others. I probably watch this less times than I've seen Pan's Labyrinth. but I love Guillermo del Toro. And I was on our friend Duncan's Podcast Under the Stairs summer series the year that this was up.

And I had that year. So that was last summer was the last time I watched this. Because I think everybody said, well, we've got to talk about Devil's Backbone. And, you know, Duncan always likes non-American movies to get in there because they're a little less seen than some. Go ahead.

No, go ahead. No, no, no, please. No, I was going to say that it's true, and especially this was earlier in Del Toro's career. You know this wasn't the shape of water Is that the one? That is a Guillermo del Toro movie. Thank you. I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm like, that's not the one, is it? The creature from the Black Lagoon, Abe Sapien love story movie. Yeah, with Bill Jones and, yeah, and Michael.

Shannon and um but it it's just that's like Oscar winning like you know it gets him all this big attention he wasn't getting such attention like he was getting some attention from critics at this point but not on this mass level he didn't have the funding behind him either And I feel that this, you know, it's interesting because Del Toro is Mexican, but yet this is supposed to take place.

you know spain and franco's spain but i don't think it matters it's just it's interesting that he puts it in that kind of political setting um also what's more scary than a political setting i well it's true and the way he uses kind of this metaphor of like this ghost metaphor for like what the horrors of war kind of is just really, I mean, it's really kind of interesting. These ways that, where you see, and you see, this is a theme.

I think a lot of Del Toro's work where it's, you know, humans are the real monsters. It's not the so-called monsters.

Right. Yeah, exactly. It's the people that have this element of greed. that are that's you know driving them that are the bad guys it's not you know it's not It's not Dr. Cesares. It's not the headmistress, Carmen. It's, you know, the people who want to take care of these children legitimately. It's these ones who are there only for greed. I mean, that they only care about greed. Well, it is what drives a lot of people, though. Well, of course, of course. And it's just. Yeah, and the way that.

There was something that visually with this made me think of the images. that were created in the book we read. As far as like that gold, like that's in the fungal images that were supposed imagery that, you know, you kind of read about in Mexican Gothic. I felt that there were some of those same like visual things kind of pulled in here and there. Yeah.

If I remember correctly with this movie, Jacinto has ties with the loyalists. Am I correct? And there's like... gold yes okay yeah okay so this is the movie okay so yeah he's hiding gold right and um i like gold

Right. But then there's another couple that takes care of the kids, too. That's what I'm saying. The doctor and the headmistress, Carmen. Gaceres and Carmen. Okay. Yes. Thank you. Jacinto was a boy from the orphanage who ran away, got in with some shitty people, and then came back to become a groundskeeper. Right. And who's working there. And to even see how he treats Conchita who works at the orphanage.

You know, it shows that he doesn't even, there's nothing he can even care about other than that gold, really. So he's like Virgil. yeah and right interesting that's right okay and the doyles i mean there's something about that like there's re it's really all of that that And you keep seeing the flash of gold throughout this movie where the gold bars are revealed here or there. Or there are flicks of gold.

throughout even um yeah it's just it just something about it reminded me about the book just that you had them pretty quickly when you started talking about this because you i mean you had these paired paired together

Pretty quickly, as soon as you started the germ of the idea, said it's probably going to be Mexican Gothic and Devil's Backbone, but I'll see. And then four months later, it's exactly what happened. yeah i kept going back and forth like should it be another movie i mean should it be another movie and then i was like no this actually fits i think pretty well because It's still, you have in Mexican Gothic, it takes place post-Mexican Revolution. Post-Mexican Revolution. This...

Devil's Backbone is taking place during a kind, a revolutionary time as well. It was Franco, right? Exactly. In the 1930s.

So, and you even, I love that you have the things like this bomb. That has fallen in the middle of the orphanage kind of, you know, quad. And it didn't go off. And it's just stuck there. They can't move it. And it's got these ribbons hanging off the end of it. And when the boy Carlos wants or needs, is asking to help, you know. find his way to Santi the ghost so he can try to communicate and try to figure out what why are you trying to show yourself to me what's going on

Tell me what happened. It is one of the ribbons from the bomb that rips off. and kind of starts pointing the way pointing the way and like through the wind and everything it's kind of like this way leading down to uncovered the mysteries and it it's again goes back to like Mexican Gothic these kind of it's the same kind of Gothic thing of here's something that is going to Point the way through this mystery until you can discover the truth and until you can come through the other side triumphant.

It's kind of like the omniscient NPC. You're the one that has all the answers, but you have to work for it. Right, right. And I mean, there is all that focus on the unexploded bomb, which was dropped by Franco's troops, right? Yes. And yes, because. Casares and Carmen, they support the Republican loyalists and Carlos's dad. What do they call him? A comrade who died in the front. And.

I mean, the bomb is unexploded, but their lives in the orphanage are destroyed anyway because of the war. Well, right. They were already on living unlimited means trying to feed the children. I was selling that. Speaking of healers and stuff. Casares is a doctor, but he's selling, what, enchanted rum? Mm-hmm.

to to people who because he says something about if you believe it works it might work and uh so he's selling the bottles of rum to people in town and that's uh One of those jarring scenes where they're lining up the people up against the wall, and he's flinching every time because...

and everybody else is just going along like it's daily business because i mean because it is to them and it's not to him right i mean the movie does end up with a little bit of um about what did the flies feel at the end though yeah with the spears also kind of uh i didn't go back and look but as sort of mimics the taking down the mammoth lesson that they had earlier in class yes too yeah oh absolutely yeah see i'm remembering a little bit of this

I mean, the cinematography is beautiful. It shows how big and how alone they are at the same time. It's a different kind of isolation. I bought the Criterion. version of this blu-ray of this last year on black friday and i had not watched it since i i bought it and i probably hadn't seen this movie in a good 10 years anyway but

It is beautiful. And you're talking about the cinematography and the isolation just as they're going through the... driving out in this emptiness down the road getting to and from the orphanage like to whatever next, you know, whatever village or town so they can get the money or resources for something. It's, yeah. Some of those shots are amazing. But, you know, I like that even very...

It seems like, I mean, it's a lot of practical effects, even though there is some CGI, but it's a good use of practical effects. And they, the CGI has aged well. This makes me want to watch it again. No, it really does because it's bringing back a lot of the stuff like how you were mentioning the isolation.

such a perfect metaphor of how these kids are. They're completely isolated out in the middle of nowhere. They have nothing because they are considered nothing. They're orphanages. I mean, they're orphanages. They're orphans. who live in an orphanage. And that's something that del Toro has in anything that I've seen of his, even... down to the vampire series that was on TV for a while. The usage of scenery and how he ties it all into a story.

And, you know, kind of like giving you ideas of what's coming next by just showing you these beautiful shots. A little bit kind of like. I have to say, you know, Steinbeck used to do the same thing, you know, and this guy, I love Guillermo del Toro. Anything that he has done has never disappointed. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, and with this, there are like sweeping shots that will, so that one scene.

will flow seamlessly into another scene like the camera is starting to move left and then all of us and then it's slowing in it like moving almost like in a panoramic view into a next room and like what is happening simultaneously in another part of the orphanage or something, you know, it.

Or into like a flashback or something. It's these kind of interesting cuts between scenes where it's almost like the lines are blurred. It's not like a sharp cut between scenes. And I like that. here in the it really works here because when you are dealing with a ghost story and sometimes the you know you're even having wait a minute Am I speaking to a person or a ghost? Like near the end where it's kind of like.

Who has died and who hasn't? And am I speaking to their ghost or am I speaking to that actual person? You know, kind of near the end and the grand takedown.

And I like that the movie opens and ends with this whole monologue. And question of what is a ghost? Tragedy condemned to repeat itself time and again, tying in with the whole war metaphor. Exactly. Exactly. And that ties in so well with Mexican Gothic because that's basically what the Doyles were. Well, and it goes to their crest of the snake eating its own tail. Yeah, it's... Mind explodes right there, everybody. Yeah.

All the connections and more at the VD Clinic. There you go. Pretty much. I mean, I feel like I didn't have as much to say about the movie.

um as they did the book but because i feel so much like there is a the way that they tie together it's almost like well we've already said this about the book and there and it's very and there's some certain similarities there there are certain you know there are a lot of like similarities with the the two the movie and the book but uh you know what else is in the movie is is kind of like these different questions of yeah the horrors of war and you know

how people respond to different differently to tragedies. I mean, uh, uh, Dr. Shit. What's his name? Sarvares. And. And Carmen, they're trying to help people. You know, they've got friends on the front. They're stitching people up. They're watching after these kids. And then there's people that are responding to the same tragedies. like Jacinto does. And he's just looking out for himself. Fuck anybody else. I mean, he'll kill a kid. He'll do whatever.

He even killed Conchita that he supposedly cared about. And focused on... Yeah. Like Virgil focused on what's in the walls. Yeah. And how to reach that next level of. I don't know, eternal life, I guess you could say it. Or just returning. Yeah, a king, a prince without a kingdom or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying yeah and agreeing with you ladies a lot, but that's fine.

Yeah, and I guess the isolationism of both stories, the isolation of these kids being out in the middle of nowhere, and then the whole isolationist. ideals of the Doyles also tie in together with this because eventually it is their downfall. It's kind of like, yeah, that's like Ragnarok. It's a snake eating its own tail. Eventually it's going to get to the end. So, yeah.

It's good picks. Yeah. No, this was really good. And I was glad that I thought about... kind of pairing the two and and i'm glad i finally re-watched this because it's uh it's it's just yeah visually stunning and then I feel like the way it is just very poetic, the way that it looks at a lot of... Yeah, the horrors of war alone. But. And again, likes poetry. He's memorizing poems and telling them to to Carmen. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

He might have been writing some too. Maybe. Listening to his gramophone or whatever that thing was called. I know. I was jealous. A vitrola. Oh, the vitrola. Isn't that what it is? It's a vitrola. And it's the crank, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No electricity.

Nope. My dad has one of those Edison wax cylinder things. Oh, no way. Yeah. I mean, he didn't even... make us stay away from it when we were kids but uh fortunately none of us my sisters and i none of us broke anything but it still works i mean five ten years ago at least uh was the last time i definitely know it still worked uh but yeah uh we've ripped uh we recorded one of the

old ones for the beginning of one of my band's CDs when we were in high school because we just thought it was so cool. And yeah, I think he's going to donate it to some museum when he dies. that'd be cool man trying to buy it and he's like nope it's mine yeah it's mine until i die He won't even give it to us. I think he definitely said he's given it to somebody that'll take care of it better or something like that, but in a nicer way. But that is not what Casares had.

That would have been harder to carry around the orphanage. Yeah, just a little. That's true. So, recommend the movie as well, obviously. Oh, yes. Yes, most definitely. So much recommended. I'm going to go sit and watch it now. Another rewatch. Yeah. That would be Zora drinking my water in the background. Everyone, I apologize. Zora has his own water sitting right here.

in a glass just like mine and we'll usually drink it but then all of a sudden it's like no yours just is gonna be better than mine oh my god I think might be as bad as a child Oh, they are. Anyway. Well, on that note. Well, thank you, Iris. Thank you, guys. I mean. Like I said, I usually don't get much chance to discuss books in such a deep and lengthy way. So thank you so much for indulging. I'm glad that you were able to join us. Thank you for coming.

And I'm glad you read the book. While people are being recorded, we like to ask if you would come back sometime. That way you feel more pressure to say yes. Most definitely. And this time I'll watch the movie. Not just read the book. And this time I'll make sure I communicate better. But, you know, this has been great. And, you know, Darren actually got to meet and talk with you. That's pretty awesome, too. And Vanessa, you know, we've.

Always, you know, going back and forth on either Facebook or something. But being able to sit like this and talk is just fabulous. So thank you. Thank you very much for having me on. Of course. And thank you for being here. And you again, you went up one final plug again. Yeah. Okay. So again, you know, we mostly on BBNBC and that is at exploitationfilm.com. Check us out there. We also have a Facebook group called BBNBC.

And then there is the Cinnamon Beef Podcast, which I will be doing a couple of jowls tomorrow. And yeah, you can just find us, you know, find me there if you want to listen to me ramble on about movies. That's part of Legion. Yes, it is. And it's part of Legion. Great. Awesome. Well, we will let you go then. And then Darren and I will wrap up the show.

okay all right thank you very much y'all and um yeah thank you just give me a heads up when it's ready and i'll just pimp it out of course awesome all right have a good night y'all okay bye have a good one bye Hey, Andrew. Hey, Maddie. Do you like horror movies? I sure do. Well, did you know that most horror movies are inspired by real-life horror? Really? Like what? Well, take The Shining, for instance. That's based on Stephen King's real-life horror.

addictions or the purge which could be our country any minute now oh and the strangers which is based on a real life murder people should be talking about these things hey Guys. Oh, hey, producer Michael. I hate to break it to you, but somebody already is. It's you. That's right. We are Fry Gay the 13th, the podcast where we talk about horror in real life and horror in media, all from an LGBTQ perspective. Because we gay, y'all.

We are proud members of the Legion Podcast Network, and we can be found on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, or wherever your favorite podcasts are found. And follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Come along with us on this crazy journey, and as always, get slaved!

so darren um tell us what are we doing next month or tell me what am i doing next month all right Next month, we are... Or do we need a break so you can think about this? Oh, no. I actually made up my mind before we recorded. I didn't even spend any time working. Uh, looking stuff up, uh, during the recording, which I think last time I was still like checking shit out. Like, wait, wait, wait, whatever. Okay. So it's November.

It will be the November episode, right? So we are doing Tank Girls Giving. Oh! Shit. Or Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. We're going to do the movie and we may read. Some of the comic, the movie is not based on any specific comics issues. They did later on make an adaptation comic of the movie, but I don't really see the point. That would be like covering Alien and the novelization of Alien. Yeah. Just not as much. So, yeah, we are doing Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving.

That sounds pretty fucking awesome. Thank you. I mean, we've been bouncing around the idea of doing that movie at some point since. I don't know if it was before I joined the show, but definitely our first brainstorm was, we'll get to this sometime. Yeah, I've been thinking about that too.

Fun fact that I just, I recently learned. So of course, you know, iced tea that we all love and know is in that movie. as one of the Rippers. Yeah. Well, and he's on Law & Order SVU. Another guy that was on Law & Order SVU, I think like in a handful of episodes. appeared as one of the Rippers. Oh, really? Yes. I know. Awesome. I just kind of think that's funny.

And yeah, so seemed like no better time to do it. And I was a little high and I was like, thanks. Why not? But I didn't know if that was kind of dad jokey. But I mean, I'm there for it. All right. I'm there for dad jokes because I am a child of Laffy Taffy. There we go. Bazooka Joe.

And those jokes on the bomb pops, like popsicle sticks. The popsicle sticks that are red, white, and blue are called bomb pops. At least the ones where... i grew up and those had jokes like that too once you got down to the stick i think they even had jokes like that on the back of garbage pail kids but they were yeah I don't know. It's been a minute. Anyway, Vanessa, do you have anything to pimp out before we go? Not that I can think of right now.

Occasionally in Octobers, you would guest spot, but you've been a very busy person. I know. It seems like this year there's just some different people have had other stuff on their agendas and they haven't even been doing as many episodes as usual. So, you know, I kind of feel like this year, everybody's just, you know, just not putting out as much stuff, but all good.

And it's all good if I don't guess, too. Because sometimes, I mean, I've got a lot going on myself just with work. So, you know how it goes. But, anywho. What else do you have going on? Psycho-Semanticast or anywhere else? Yes, Psycho-Semanticast as usual. I think that's about it. Very well. yeah people are probably caught up with that so i just finished up my podcast under the stairs summer series thing but that was at the end of september but i think he put out three

episodes that were four and a half hours longer or four and a half hours long or longer as the last three roundtables for that. So there very well could be people still listening to it. I am on. I think the first one and the shortest one. Okie dokie. If that's a seller. That's a seller for me. Being on a shorter episode. Yeah, so over at Psycho-Semantic.

Yeah. Business as usual. Talking with people. That is where I had heard of that El Norte movie that you were talking about. Yeah. So I'm talking to some people that. uh tried to unionize and got screwed out of their jobs and i'm telling you this this movie that was one of the movies that came up as a possibility for that but nothing is set in stone on that so you know i mean i don't like to say specifically until i've actually recorded the episode so other shit like that but yeah psycho semantic

VD clinic are both part of the wonderful Legion podcast network, all kinds of shit coming out this month and next month and forever over on there. And yeah, that's all I can think of. Okay. Sounds like a plan. Very cool. See y'all. See yins next month. Happy... Spooky season. Spooky. Spores. This marble is waiting.

Thank you for listening to another episode of the VD Clinic. If you'd like to get in touch with us, you can find us at Twitter at VDClinicPod or reach us via email. at vdclinicpod at gmail.com we also have a facebook group vd clinic podcast we'd love to hear your feedback suggestions and more