You are listening to the V City podcast by Peter O welcome everyone to the V City podcast on this podcast. We typically talk about technology, business and most importantly relationships with other people. So, um today is gonna be pretty interesting and the reason it's interesting is because, and on youtube, I'll put this in uh my friend Sam Samuel Sa, we had a conversation about uh maybe 34 years ago, maybe, yeah, about four years ago.
And it was a random conversation that was recorded uh when I was doing more interviews with people on youtube and we talked a lot about technology and having internships and co ops in Canada. And it's super interesting to see how things have gone from then up until now. So I suppose the biggest thing is to see whether those things we hoped to happen happened. Uh It's almost like an update like a part two to that conversation. But the good thing is that we have more knowledge than we did before.
So I ask every one of you who may be listening either on the podcast or on uh on youtube to stick around, you will learn a lot. We will talk a lot about co ops getting your foot into the door when it comes to technology. Um go transitioning from school life, university or college into working in a corporate world and how that has been for myself, Peter and for Samuel as well. Uh Sam is a super smart person, uh very intelligent man.
Uh We worked together in a few classes when it came to engineering and software engineering 1st and 2nd year. Uh and we met each other in Victoria in Canada. So welcome Samuel Soco. How are you doing? Appreciate it, man. That was um that was one hell of an intro honestly, but I'm good. I'm doing good. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to um talk about all this stuff and you like a, I would say a secondary update to what's going on on your side, on your, on your life. And so what are you? I think, I suppose I'll just, I'll start this question and then I'll just let you talk. Um who is Samuel Salwa regarding technology and school? For sure. Um So like most people or most Nigerians, I, I uh was starting my career off in engineering.
Uh Initially, I thought of mechanical engineering because that was just the, the thing to do, I guess or like electrical or whatever, not a lot of people were into software um which is crazy, but in high school, I used to program a little bit. I remember I built, build this calculator, um, with like basic programming language, literally called basic. Um, like when I was, I don't know, like 12 or something like that, but I never thought that that'd be a career path for myself.
Um, but anyway, it's fast forward. I get to university slash college depending where you are. Um, and computer science was available. I said, ok, cool. You know, let's get to computer science and see what's happening. Um I really like it in my fir, I mean, I, I thought it was ok in my first year, but I never really saw the value and I took this class in my second year. Um It's uh it's just like software engineering, software engineering class.
I think that's when it really opened my eyes to just see what I what was possible. And from there, I just sort of developed a love for software engineering specifically and building applications and building products and that's good. Thanks for explaining and giving that background. Um So people have that similar background but they're not able to utilize that. So um with that said, where, where do you see yourself in software engineering? Because even software engineering is a large thing.
So where are you in that? Where do you fit? Software engineering is huge. You know, there's so many different uh areas of expertise even within uh software engineering. Uh typically you have your software engineers, your developers and that can range from web development to um hardware or I mean, well, not hardware, we're talking about software. But um some people like to, they have, they meet this bridge between software and hardware and they work on very low level stuff.
So they work on maybe chips that you, you use in like a, a phone or whatever the case may be. They work on programming. Those I actually have some experience doing that. It's called assembly language. Um I have some experience working on that. Um And then you have, like I mentioned web, you have mobile developers, you have uh infrastructure developers, whatever the case may be myself, I'm sort of a jack of multiple trades. Um My first intro to software engineering was web development.
So I've done web development with a ton of programming languages, PHP, Java, javascript, Python, you know, you name it, I've done it probably. Um but something that I found my passion these days is mobile development. So specifically building apps for I OS for the I OS platform, uh building apps for iphones for ipads. Um That's really my passion, that's what I'm passionate about. But again, I'm also really skilled at web development. Um I built a bunch of web apps. I do it for fun really.
But I also do it for work. So I get to experience the best of both worlds because web and mobile are definitely the more popular and the bigger uh aspects of software engineering because that's more of your traditional development. So, you know, I, I feel like I've been blessed to just have an opportunity to be a part of that. So, thanks for explaining that because I'm about to rewind just a little bit.
And the question I have for you is um I, I kind of know the answers because we worked on some things together. But what did you do to help? I know we're, we're both not at the top of this metaphorical ladder or mountain yet. But what did you do to help your career move forward? And I'm talking about during college years because that's pretty much the most impactful time regarding this. Yeah. Um I, I think especially in technology, software, computer science and all the other related fields.
The biggest thing is being a self starter. Um The biggest thing I've learned is 50 to 60% of what we learn in college is not directly trans uh is not gonna directly translate to the workplace. So being a self starter and doing your own projects your own time, that's really the best way to get visibility.
Unless you get to work on these like class projects where you get to build out these very complex uh systems or not even complex but systems that show off your skill sets, it's gonna be hard to put yourself in front of employers and say, OK, this is what I've done. This is what I can do if you don't have something to show, it's like a portfolio. And so I remember in my second year II, I was like, ok, cool. Let me, let me build something. I've never done web development before, but it looks fun.
And I remember for three straight days I went to bed at 5 a.m. because I stayed up Googling. I stayed up watching youtube videos. And the first app I ever built was a weather app. It would take in a city and then it would show you the temperature and it would change the background to like an image from that city. Now that seems very simplistic but to someone who had never done before, it, it took me forever to figure out.
But the great thing about that was I got to learn, I got an opportunity to actually get deep into the weeds of things and just figure it out. So being a self starter and that was the first thing I put on my resume because prior to that, if I showed you my resume, it literally had nothing tech related. And it's really hard for, you know, a tech employer and uh hiring manager to look at your resume and not see any kind of projects even if it's not school.
But being able to see projects, being able to see a demonstration of your abilities is so critical. So for me, it was uh being a self starter. I, I just started working on projects. I still do that to this day. Um I just work on projects and from being a necessity, it's turned into a passion. I love. It's a hobby. Like I build apps for fun. I totally agree with you on that because man, at some point, school work just became so heavy that you, you look for something else to do that keeps you up.
It's harder to, it's harder to stay up. For me. It was harder to stay up to, to do assignments to complete a physics experiment. But it was much easier for me to stay up to work on my own personal hobby per project, whatever it was I was building or learning. Um And I wonder if there's a way and that's a different topic, but I wonder if there's a way to somehow allow students to have that where there's that autonomy to build.
And I think they do that, you know, when you're doing your Capstone projects, your, your final projects, they, they ask you to build soft, build something with a group of people. The sad thing is that, that's like when you're just done, you're ready to just leave the college, leave the university sector. I'm not even this part I'm not interested in doing. Um But thanks for sharing that. Do you think that?
So let's say let's assume that someone who's 12 years old is listening to this and has no understanding or background about, like, they just like the idea of software engineer. Maybe their dad, isn't it? Oh, I guess they could ask their dad but someone they know is a software engineer and they wanna, they want to get started on that. What would be your advice there? You know, I think software engineering is such an interesting place right now. I think, especially when I was a kid.
It wasn't a thing. Um You were either any other kind of engineer but not software. Software engineering is a very young field. Also, I should, I should mention I don't, it's been really in existence for maybe 23 decades, which is really young in comparison to the others. Um People used to build software but not as an engineering field. So now is definitely something that people can be interested in if you're 12.
Um If you have an interest in building um for me as a kid, I used to love building stuff. That's sort of why I wanted to be an engineer, but I didn't realize that there are different mechanisms for building. So if you're a 12 year old kid and you're watching this, my biggest advice is keep being imaginative, just keep dreaming about how you would create stuff. Um Think about how you'd make a new, I don't know iphone app or how you'd make something.
It's just the being inquisitive and being curious about how to create. Um I think there's an art in software engineering and there's definitely that form of creativity that we don't talk about a lot because it's, it's a stem field. So people just assume it's all technical, but there's definitely some creativity and I think that's what sparks some interest in, in younger people to, to get into software engineering. It's another form to express yourself crazy as that sounds.
I agree. Um And I would, I would also add um that if you're a kid interested in the field instead and of course, not everyone can do this, but instead of like your people at that age would be more interested in movies and just spending time doing other things. That's a good time to, to build like youtube is such a that your, I'm sure your parents would be more than happy to pay for um code classes, not co code classes, but there's these uh uh I forgot the name camps. Thank you.
Thank you very much that you can join and, and just start from the basic. And I think one of the biggest things that you can do to, to learn is build something that already exists. That's how you start. Just build something that already exists, you know, and go from there and it doesn't have to be a web app. It could be anything regarding engineering. Um I won't give a disclaimer though to, to 12 year olds that engineering is hard and expensive, so expensive, man. Uh it is.
So that's, that's what I wanted to say. Go ahead. Yeah, I was just, I was gonna say, like I was like, I was telling you all before. Um The first thing I ever built was a very simple calculator. There's this programming language called basic. And it's one of the founding programming languages if you want. It's literally very basic. I built a small app. I wouldn't even call it an app. It's just like a program that, you know, added numbers, subtracted numbers div uh divided and what have you.
So it, it doesn't need to be, you don't need to be building Google or I don't know, youtube, you don't need to. I mean, you could, don't get me wrong. I, I've always been someone who loves to just do the really difficult things because it forces you to learn so much. But at the same time, you need to be able to gauge where you're at if you're going into development cold or if you're just trying to like, you know, get a sense for what it, what it is.
It's really cool to just work on something really small and just get your feet wet, you know, and get in the game essentially. And that dopamine rush man when you build something and it works. Lord. Unbelievable. I want one line of code when you debug something and it works. It's like, yes, Lord, thank you finally, finally. So OK, so we're gonna switch gears a little bit. Sam. You are listening to the VC City podcast by Peter Aju. Do you want to make an impact in life?
Do you wish to use your time effectively? Do you believe in learning to grow in wisdom? If you answered yes to these questions, then you are in the right place. You'll be inspired to achieve more. This part is where I feel like you have far more expertise than I do just because I didn't do this and that's co op. So I will first of all ask you to, first of all explain what co op is, even though I'm sure a lot of people do know what it is, but just explain what it is and how you got into it. OK.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So whether you call it co op or internship, it's basically a work term. It's a term away from school. I mean, some people take it with classes, but typically it's a term away from school where you get to get um you know, hands on experience in the industry. Now in computer science, software engineering, it's critical, I don't think it's very possible for you to, for you to be successful out the gate without some kind of experience, no matter how smart you are.
Because what I found is the field is less, there's less emphasis on your intellect, but rather you, there's more emphasis on soft skills and obviously having that foundation, you know, and it's like if I'm an employer and I see two people, one person doesn't have any experience and the other person has experience, I don't really care too much for GPA S or whatnot.
As long as you've shown a demonstration of, ok, well, I have this ability and I can do this and this, but back to what co ops are and what they can do for, for you, like I said, co ops are a work term. Uh Some schools have them and it's like an accredited program. So when you graduate it, it will pop up on your diploma, some schools have it informally, whatever the case may be.
Now, we, I was fortunate uh the University of Victoria where I go um has a recognized co op program for computer science and software engineering. Now, this doesn't mean if your school doesn't have one, it's the end of the world and I'll tell you what. Uh so if you're part of the program, typically they'll have some kind of portal that lets you apply for jobs directly through the university or they'll have some kind of counseling, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
For my university, I didn't really get much value out of that. Um It's different from, for, for other universities like I know Waterloo um the bigger schools, Waterloo UFT, they have massive co op programs and they get a lot of opportunities because they have a lot of good uh relationships with different companies, but don't be heartbroken. There's no worry per se regardless of where you go. Um, how I got my co ops my first two out of my. So I let me backtrack.
I've done three co ops, two out of the three co ops. I found myself, um, and I was talking to my sister yesterday and she met, she wanted me to plug her. I'm not gonna plug her, but she really is the plug. Um I was really fortunate to have a sister who's been through the career path. You know, she uh she went to Duke and she works at Amazon now, but there's been a lot of different journeys in between that period.
And so just being able to learn from her experience and the biggest thing that she did for me was telling me was pushing me to, to be active on linkedin, linkedin is I can't even overemphasize. It's literally probably one of the greatest human creations of our time. I'm not kidding. It really put me on a map. It gave me an opportunity to connect with employers, you know, visibility because if you're not seen, you're not gonna get hired. Very simple as that.
Uh So she really pushed me on, on linkedin, you know, I was cold messaging people, you know, I, I must have sent like 506 100 messages and even that wasn't enough, you know, and this was the summer of or like the spring of 2020 I was looking for a co op and I've been trying, I've tried previously, you know, I apply cold, apply to this place or that place. I wouldn't get interviews. I wouldn't get, um, opportunities back and Peter, uh, stop me if I'm going off topic. But, um, I love it.
Ok. Ok. So I can get an interview essentially. And even when I did it wasn't for the greatest companies. It was these little, you know, companies here and there that weren't really software, but I was just trying to get something. So the spring of 2020 I was going hard on linkedin. I'm not even gonna lie. I would wake up at 4 a.m. because we're on Pacific time and I wake up at 4 a.m. because that's 7 a.m. Toronto time. And that's when most people are taking up their phones.
I want to be the first message that they see when they take up their phone. I don't want them to see messages from their kids, from their family members, their aunt, their uncle. I want them to see. Hi, I'm Samuel, da, da da da. This is, this is this and I had a, I had a template. I mean, I give out all the little tips and trades because my, this is my sister's pattern. I'm ok. I'm not, I'm not gonna, not give, I'm not gonna give it all.
But, um, you know, I would call message these people, employers, um you know, I target specific people at specific companies just so I could get an opportunity. Right. And I messaged, like I said, like 400 plus people, I didn't even know that linkedin could limit the number of messages you got, but you get to a point and they're like, you need to chill. Right? So I'd have to wait a little bit and then come back.
But um yeah, eventually I, you know, it got to a point where people weren't responding, you know, I would message people, they wouldn't respond. And then I got over the hump. It was just so many messages that just the love of numbers, somebody had to respond.
And before I knew a ton of people responding law of averages and there's some truly helpful people on linkedin, you know, you message them, they'll be like, you know, listen, um I don't think we have any, anything, anything open right now, but let me message you back if I hear of anything. Um The other thing is, you know, I also try to reach out to, you know, people who are like me.
So I target Nigerians um at companies just because I felt they might be more sympathetic, whatever the case may be anything you need to do essentially to get yourself, you know, in a conversation with somebody that's not to say other people weren't helpful. There is definitely a lot of helpful people.
Um And then funny enough, my sister was going on linkedin and she was just looking around, you know, looking for opportunities and there's a start up in Toronto and they hold a special place in my heart because that was my first work experience. Um They, they posted a, they didn't post a job, they just posted a job description like, hey, you know, this is what we're working on. We're looking for, you know, college students to whoever is interested. So I messaged him.
He's like, ok, hey, let's have a meeting. Uh Let's set up a meeting and talk. We set up a meeting, one interview. It went amazing. You know, he just talked to me about what they're doing. Looked at my again, this is where it's key. He looked at my resume and he saw something that he liked. I had worked on a house indexer and what that was was, it's a, it's an app to help you find listings for rentals and whatever the case may be.
And it just happened to be that their business is um in the real estate uh family. So that hit home. He was like, oh, well, I mean, it looks like your head is already in the right direction. He looked at my skill set, what they were the stack, the software stack that they were using the stack is like a, like the programming languages and frameworks what they were using. I didn't have any experience but he was like, well, you seem like you are a fast learner.
You know, I'm willing to give you an opportunity to see how you do. And that's how I got my first co op. I was so blessed to work with them. Uh It, it was a small start up. It didn't pay great, but that's the value of getting your first experience. It doesn't, for me, it wasn't more so about the money. And honestly, if you, if you, if your first instinct is, oh, I'm not gonna get paid a lot. It might be hard for you to get a job because your first one is gonna be, it's not gonna be easy.
But that's not to say that you can get like a Microsoft in your first try. That's very possible. But, you know, my first job was working at a start up. I did Web dev for them. I learned on the job and it was very fulfilling. Um And it was one of the be better experiences I've had prior to that, I had one interview at Microsoft uh in Vancouver.
That was probably the best interview I've had just because they flew me out, they put me in a hotel, I a five star hotel for free food, everything I got to go to their offices. It was amazing. I didn't get the job but uh you know, free trip to Vancouver Hussein. No, you know what I mean? So, yeah, that was my first gig, um, my second gig I, I worked on, uh, we have like a, like the university department of software engineering.
Had a, they have like a software group that does some software work for them. So I got to work there as well. Not, nothing particularly out of the ordinary. That one I, I got through the university. Then my third co op again. Tell me if I'm going off off topic. Ok, cool, cool. My third co op is been the best so far.
Um uh I don't know if I should say, but anyways, I got a co op for into it, which is like a fortune 500 company that does like they're the creators of turbotax, uh mains, all those kind of great uh products, quick books. So how I got that was through linkedin. I had reached out to a recruiter. Actually, I have applied, I got rejected to the same job I got rejected. And then I reached out to a recruiter and she said, oh, how were you rejected? I don't know. How was I?
Anyways. Um She sent me a, an invite. She said, ok, hey, let's hop on a call. Let's talk. We talked the first two minutes. She was like, listen, I already like you, let's just go ahead and get next interview booked. She, she took the time to, she, we set up like another call afterwards to just clean up my resume.
Big up her because she really helped me out, just figuring out how I should, you know, make my resume look for a tech job because it looked like it was a business resume because my sister had helped me out and she's in business. But anyway, she helped me streamline it and I got to interview the first time. Funny enough, I interviewed the first time and I didn't get in and I'll tell you what that was the most nerve wracking interview.
I'd had not because the interview was difficult, but just, I was so I was nervous, you know, it was a huge company. I really wanted to do well, psych myself out. I didn't perform as well as I wanted. And I remember getting the news from her. She called, she was like, uh, you know, it's not gonna work this time. I was heartbroken. I'm not even gonna lie. I cried a little bit, a little bit. I cried a little bit. And then like three days after I will never forget I was asleep and I got a call.
It was a Toronto number. I was like, well, who's coming from Toronto this time? I picked it up and it was her and I was like, why would she be calling me back? I had to pinch myself. I honestly thought I was so dreamy. She said these words, hey, Sam, we really loved you. Would you like to come back and interview again? I said what I think I might have been like, are you kidding? I honestly, I, because I thought I thought I was asleep. I thought I was dreaming or something.
But she said, hey, do you wanna come interview again? I said, yeah, don't mind what I do. Um I had the second interview, killed it. Like I was, I was like, if I, if I'm getting a second chance, there's no way I'm psyching myself out, I'm just gonna be focused, calm, collected and I've done it before. So it was calm for me. Um I got it, I got it the second time and, you know, I've gotten to work, I've worked there. I worked there for uh one semester. So spring time to like the start of summer.
And then, um I remember at the end of that, that term, I was telling them, hey, listen, I've really had fun, you know, I'd love to come back in whatever capacity. And so they're asking me, ok, what, when's your next work term? Da da, da, da da. And it would probably have been like the fall of 2021 or whatever. But then something happened and I was really favored. I'm not gonna lie. I was really blessed. Um They said, hey, do you wanna keep working here just part time?
Um And that's something they, they had never done. Uh But they, but they said, hey, do you wanna work part time? And I, I said, yeah, uh, and ever since that, that's opened the door for even more people to work part time, which is something they had never done in the past. And so I've been working there for, I believe this is my 11th, 11th month there. Uh, getting up to one year.
So it's been a blessing and it's definitely been the most fulfilling, uh, co op I've done, I gotta say, man, you don't know the kind of gems you dropped when I said when I started by saying so I was really smart. He was like what you don't, you don't know the kind of gems you dropped. Um And of course, see what, what I hear from this and we've talked about it before but it's, it's where hard work meets, preparation or well, preparation meets opportunity.
Um Because of course we have a few things in here that it's like, man, God did this for me. That's great. But if you were not prepared and ready for this ain't no way you had not done the things that you were supposed to do. So I really appreciate you um talking about that and bringing to light what you've gone through because it's insane what international students go through to get co ops.
You know, you deal with a lot of things, a lot of hoops you, I mean, sometimes you're dealing with the color of your skin and that might be something that you can tell that was the reason why you were not accepted. Sometimes you're dealing with uh uh just difficulty, financial difficulty because I mean, you're living in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
Um And, but hey, I wanted to point back, you know, when you talked about the Microsoft situation, you are listening to the VC podcast by Peter Oun. My mission here is to help you achieve more by broadening your perspective while helping you stay inspired, consider joining me on youtube and Instagram as we explore a broad range of topics from business to technology and relationships. Now, back to the show that Microsoft interview you told us about it.
It was, that was actually in the, in the other video like a few years ago. Yeah, you were like, yo man, they're actually, I'm actually gonna do this. I believe that I believe it was, you hadn't had it yet, you were talking about going to. So this is like the follow up to that story. Um Yeah. So thanks for explaining that for me just to put my own two cents there. I didn't do co ops. Um I just went through school.
I didn't want to stop to do any and, and because of the second school I went to in the, in the States after Canada, I didn't um I didn't need to do co ops because any at our school in Canada, we have to do co ops to, to graduate otherwise you can't um, unless I think there's a specific degree though. Yeah, I didn't have to, like, software is the one you can, you don't have to do it. Right. No. No. So, engineering you need to, like any engineering you need to do. But I mean, yeah.
And computer science we have to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool, man. It's been, it's crazy how, like I walk down, walk down the pre, open the doors to see his building and I like, see you coming out of the class and it's like, no, and it's just like, it's just crazy how life just morphs and moves from there. Um All those nights, you know, spending time in the library or clear h or building a, you know, Larry H 50 man. Anyway, it's, it's crazy. It's super interesting.
I really appreciate you giving um me all that information and, and, and people who would love to know about this. Um You talked about linkedin, you talked about projects and you talked about persistence um in many ways just making sure that you don't give up and you don't quit. So that is very, very valuable. Um My two cents there is that when I was done with school before I finished, I knew that I needed to get a job, right?
Like I don't have a, I haven't had a call but I've done, you know, I've done a lot of personal projects. This body of work speaks for itself. Like, I'm not even kidding. Just side note, like, there are very few people who don't have a co op that have experience and you're one of those people, like, I, you're the amount of work you've done on your own time is equivalent to co ops honestly. And I think what's really cool about it is something that you, uh, you're, you're very passionate about.
So when you, when you're in a room talking to somebody about it, it just jumps off. They're like, ok, yeah, I can see this about him and to put that kind of energy as a college student into something outside of, you know, school work is impressive. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah. Um, first of all, congratulations and all on everything, you know, I know there's, there's more to do.
Um, someone said the reward of hard work is more hard work but do, but, um, you've come this far and I, there, there, there was nights where it was difficult and, and hard. Um, there are assignments. We, there are assignments where you are. Like, I'm never gonna finish this. I, I'm just not this on time, uh, because of how hard it was, but you were still able to keep going and going and, and still have time for friends hit the gym.
All of that, um, was, is impressive and that's why select few get the kind of jobs that, that you get. Um, and so I just want to let listeners out there know that software engineering or engineering in general is very difficult and it takes a specific type of person or the learning or, or, or the, or learning a specific type of skill which is persistence. I think that's the biggest thing to go through it because it takes so much time. It's expensive and it takes a toll on your mental health.
Like, imagine the stress you had to go through for those interviews only to not get some of them. I get it. Yeah, it's, it's crazy like and it's all about the law of averages man. I I interviewed a ton um got rejected at some of these rejection man. I have like at least 304 100 rejections sometimes like four or five from the same company at the same time. It's, it's crazy.
You know, there's some, there's some mornings you wake up, you check your email, rejection, rejection, rejection, rejection, rejection, you're like damn. Can I get a break just you know, uh but not definitely is. Yeah, man. I I'm not gonna lie. I wouldn't wish it for anyone the amount of persistence that you need to have. Just taking that. And look to be honest, seeing that kind of rejection constantly is difficult. You know, you have to find some way somewhere somehow.
For me, it was desperation, you know, like I knew I, I knew I wanted to get this so much. I wanted to get it so bad because I knew it would give me a lot of good opportunities and just the support also for my family friends. It also, it also helped that my really closest friend at that time was in the same degree. Same, we did it together. You know, that's another thing you need to find like minded people who are willing to push you as much as you push them.
Um Also even you, you know, just being around you and the energy of OK, let's get it, let's get it, let's get it is really infectious. And I feel like I try to resonate that and just let people around me also get a feel of that so that we're all pushing each other honestly. So it's really, you do it by, by committee. You can't, i it'd be really difficult to do by yourself. I feel, I agree. It is not the stories you've told, you can see the supporting cast very clearly in what they did.
And without them, we couldn't be just starting from our parents man. The fact that they were like, I want you to go abroad. I, I want you to study this. I want, I want to help you accomplish this. And even when we fail, um whether it's exams or tests or even just like just down, you know, where we feel like we're, we're done and they're just there to, to help pick us up that is very, uh, you know, hear your dad say, uh, like one time I was, I was struggling when I was started off in mec.
Um, and I was just like, 00, no, it was electrical. Oh, God. And III, I was struggling with physics. Uh, what was that? Physics course that everyone had to do? One? 10. 0, I called my dad and I don't call him for, for, for, for, for help with like stuff like, um, like, I'm feeling sad. Like what, I'll feel sad, something's gonna come up tomorrow. I'll be fine. But that was, that was a slap in my face, man. I had to call him. Like, I don't, I don't know if I can do this thing at all.
Like, so I'm glad you can relate there. Um, but on a lighter note, what is I have a, on a more, you know, exciting note here. What's the most exciting aspect of working in technology for you? And, and, and why is that, you know, very often? I tell people that. So, ok, I'm a developer. And what that means is I'm not really focused on like automation testing or the other parts of software. I'm really focused on building. I love building.
And so for me it's a joy like it's, I don't, I don't consider it work when I get to, you know, build stuff from scratch. Like I said, I do that as a hobby. Um, I also tell people that being a developer having the ability to program or to develop is a superpower because I can think about something right now and say, OK, boom, I want let, let's make it happen. I just think that's the superpower.
Like the other day, I was um I was taking notes and I don't like the stock Notes app that comes on like your iphone or whatever. So I was like, OK, hey, how about I build my own? I built my own spec, you know, it, it saves your documents to c to the cloud and all that. And it was just such a wonderful experience to say, OK, I thought about it and I had the skill, skill set to build it.
So my favorite part of, of this whole thing is building, you know, creating, getting an opportunity to think about every little detail and making it a reality, not just being a dreamer, but being an imp with someone who can implement as well. Um that it's, it's really gratifying. So I, I feel like for a lot of developers, it's, it's the same thing as well. Yes, thanks for pointing that specific part out.
Um uh You know, let's if we go back even a little further from four years ago when we did our, when we did our video together when we did our. So it's the same thing because me being interested in, I was super interested in, in media as at that time and I still am um along with technology. But if you really think about it, man, we had a dream.
It's like this is the show we want to produce and it was just in the air and I discussed with Daniel and we're like, Sam TK with these would be amazing people for this particular stuff. Let's let's work with them. We pitched the idea to you guys and you guys were like, let's do it. It sounds like a good idea. We put out this, we filmed it on a zero budget with police following us around on campus.
We use every resource that was in our every resource that was in our um in our grasp, whether it was borrowing cameras from campus. Um I remember sometimes I ask you could you use your card so you get more cameras um and just working with the sun and just doing our own thing. And we were, it was just this, that naivete that we were just like we just wanted to get this done. We didn't care about the hurdles who go through and I spent nights with Daniel. Same thing. We're up till 56 some days.
I'd be up till 9 a.m. editing that thing because I needed to drop it the next day. And it wasn't about the reception. Although every people all around the city started recognizing who we were, but it was like the fact that we built something like we, we created this thing from nothing. Yeah, it's a brainchild. I'm telling you, man. It's, it, it will always be special because you did that and, and I think like you said, employees, employers can hear that um investors can hear that.
Uh they can see it because they know when they, when they see gold, they know that they can find that. So it's all about, yeah, it, it's, it's really all about the, the journey and just man, I don't, I don't know what the word is, but just that desire, like I've had interviews where I'm talking to, to like uh an employer and they can just hear the how passionate I am about. I feel like when you're really passionate about something, it's, it doesn't take much to show it.
Like you can have a conversation with somebody and pops off to them. Like if someone ever met you in person, they'll know. OK, he loves filmmaking, he loves uh digital media, that's his thing and it's very apparent and that, that's somewhere where we worked on um on the series was so interesting because it is literally just a little idea and it went from a little idea to reality in like a couple of weeks. And that's for me, that's, that's all it's about the creation process. Thank you.
Exactly. Um Man, I really appreciate that. Um Thank you for, for, for the information you've given. I think I just wanted to go back a little because I forgot to add something. You know, my, I was talking about my two cents when I was looking for a job after IIII I wanna say that I endorse what you did. Um, I spent a lot of time as well looking for tech jobs across the country and just applying and applying and applying. Same thing.
I wake up in the morning and look at my phone and it was when I see your rejection, it's usually I'm excited for a little bit because it says the company and like, hello Peter, you know, thank you for, yeah, once they hit you with that, thank you for it. And I just click on it and it's like, yeah, but we've decided to move on with the app application, you know, with the, with someone else or whatever the case is.
Oh man, I at a point it just, I was just like, you know what, I'll check it before I go to bed instead of in the first thing in the morning. Um but one thing I did too was so in my school we have something called handshake similar to the portal you guys we had in at vic uh where it's like, OK, applying and I just applied, bro. I was just like go, go, go, go, go and I'd get some response back. But one thing I did that you didn't talk about was I went to fairs.
I think you've gone to a fair before. But by your, I been to fairs but mine was a digital fair because, well, COVID and all that, um, it was a digital affair and I was just looking through like who here is a tech company that I can work for and I can bring all my skills and film building software and it together. Um, basically information technology in information security, all that. And I met this guy, uh, who I, the nice thing is you can schedule one on one.
So I, I went early enough and I, there's like only 21 on one for company. And if that is, if the company wants to do one on one. So I saw this company and they were like doing one on one and I was just like, III, I took one on one for almost all of them and he just took my whole day off because sometimes I'll talk with them and I, and I would get the vibe of the company or the recruiter.
And I'm like, I don't think they want me or I don't know if this company would be a good fit and sometimes I'll be like, this is a good fit. I'm gonna, and I'll go with it. So I spoke with this man. Um and he was just, he didn't give me the job or anything. He was a recruiter. What he did was I'll check back in with you.
Here's my email here's my, you know, send me your resume this and that I was just like this is, I don't know if he's that interested, but I, what I did like you was, I emailed him consistently message his phone, you know, as much as I could without trying to be, you know, uh pain, um, emailed him. I looked for him on linkedin, looked for him on, um, check the company and then I, I wanted to apply to the company directly because he didn't ask me to do that.
But before I did that, I emailed him again asking can I apply? Like I've sent you my email. This is all the information about me. Do you think I can apply? And he's like, yeah, go ahead. That was when I put in my resume because he, he being the recruiter might have helped, you know, seeing that. Ok. So I, I responded to him telling him I have applied just so, you know, he told me that I have applied, I've submitted my application. He's like, ok, great. I'll, I'll, I'll be in touch.
Ok. And that's just, I just left. It continued doing the other stuff and then later on, um um I got II I reached out to him asking him, you know, just update what's going on, you know, and that was like a few months later and he's like, oh, ok. Yeah, yeah. So next week we're starting, I was like, what he's like do you, you know, do you want to do an interview? I'm like, so if I didn't reach out to this dude? Yeah, he's busy.
Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. It's a fine dance honestly, with, with these recruiters, I guess, said visibility, you need to be in their faces. You need to be what they think about when they go to bed, when they're waking up. I'm not kidding. I was in their faces constantly. Like I would message would hit them up. Oh, hey, I've gone ahead of and I've applied in a couple of days. Hi. I'm just following up to see if there's any, the thing is, imagine what it is to be a recruiter.
They're seeing hundreds borderline, thousands of applications every single day. And so you need to be bringing your, your own stuff to the top. Like, I don't believe in just applying and leaving it very rarely will you get that job if you just applied? Like, unless you, you, your resume is like, oh, worked at Microsoft or Google. And I've come to find that even that doesn't guarantee you anything because there's a ton of other people with that kind of, um, experience. Right.
And the thing is that kind of experience will get you to the door. But then it doesn't necessarily mean you're the best for the job. You know, you could have like matching skill sets, whatever the case may be. So you always give yourself an opportunity. Don't be like, oh, hey, hey, I applied, you know, I didn't get it like apply, it doesn't take anything to email.
Worst case they don't respond, you're not gonna die, you know, and, and best case they respond, they say, hey, you know, we moved on that way you can get closure one. Ok. So I had, I had one thing I don't like is when I've had an interview and you don't give me any response back. I find it very irresponsible in a part of certain companies where, you know, somebody is taking some time out of their day, you know, to talk with you about a role. The least you can do is have the decency to respond.
I had a, I had a, I'm not gonna mention what company, but I had an interview at that company. It didn't go great because the recruiter clearly saw I didn't have the specific skill set they wanted, but still let me interview, I think and, and it's fair because I can easily learn on a job. That's not a problem for me. But I think the hiring manager was, she was adamant that, you know, I had that skill set because they didn't have much time, you know, for me to learn and that's completely fair.
But, you know, interview ended like three weeks went by, I sent him an email all of a sudden, recruiters not responding. Come on, give me some closure. I like how you said how you said fine dance. It is. It's a negotiation. It's a dance. Um, what do you have for me? What can I offer you? Um, and putting yourself in their shoes and hopefully they're putting theirselves themselves in your shoes. And I think there, there's a lot of jobs out there, um, and beyond jobs.
There's, there's, there's, um, there's ideas, there's people who have, who, who will go on to have their own start ups investors out there. Um Whatever it is that works for you or whatever is next for you. Um The opportunities are there, it's just that it takes time. Um And it takes effort and, and then we have that luck or that opportunity, but you need to be prepared so that you can be able to be ready to, to, to accept it when it comes. But um damn, I wanna say thank you.
Um Our time is basically up now, but this has been an amazing interview. Um not interview because that's not the word we chose to use and I will be, I'll try to take that word going forward. Um It's a conversation. Um You know, these are the conversations we have on the phone and it's like, why don't we just put that into podcasts? And, and that was kind of my idea. So if it's ok with you, I'd love to have you back. Um Another time.
Um And who knows time going on, we'll have I I definitely have a few other people I want to talk with and it'll be great to have a round table at some point. Um Down the line, once, once we grow a little bit more, um where people who have made it through this journey can all talk together and inspire others who are just starting the journey. Um Any final words, man, any final words, hey, um it's been very, very exciting talking with you.
Um I really just love the opportunity to help people out, you know, directly indirectly. However, I can, especially when we talk about this specifically, I think there's a lot of value in these kind of conversations and, you know, like you said, these are conversations we have casually and we've had in the past, even with the other video. Um And there's some value in that. So I really had fun, you know, just talking to y'all about the story and the journey essentially.
And um I'm excited to come back and talk about some more stuff. Thank you so much, Sam. So I'm gonna wrap this up here. Thank you listeners for joining us today on this podcast and on this video cast on youtube. Um It's been a pleasure. I hope that you learned something new. Um My, my, my logo or rather my, my tagline in life is uh broaden your perspective. Uh And I hope this broaden your perspective and my theme for 2022 really is learn from others.
So that's, that's kind of like my theme for, for the year in terms of youtube, uh my personal work and development, professional development as well. So I hope all of you learn from others. I hope that um you enjoyed this and if you enjoyed this, then stick around for the next one.
If this is, if you're listening to this on youtube, you can give this a like because that helps the other people see from it as we see it as well because the algorithm we we can talk about in another episode um just algorithms and data structures and things like that. But he's like, no, not school again. But the high level concept of it is is very, is very intricate machine learning and artificial intelligence. I feel like we just had our second topic.
But um yeah, please join us on this journey and um we will have more ready for you going forward and that that's all. Thank you for listening and watching and we will see you guys later.