Welcome to the upper hand, where Chuck and Chris talk hand surgery.
Chris Dy :We are two hand surgeons at Washington University in St. Louis here to talk about all aspects of hand surgery from technical to personal.
Charles Goldfarb :We want to thank you for subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.
Chris Dy :And please leave a review. That certainly helps us get the word out.
Charles Goldfarb :Oh, hey, Chris.
Chris Dy :Hey, Chuck, how are you?
Charles Goldfarb :I am well all things considered. Life is a life heading in a good direction. It feels like we're getting busier at work and still still busy at home. But what are you thinking?
Chris Dy :Things have been good? It's getting closer to normalcy, although certainly there is going to be a new normal for all of us just in society, but it's been good.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah. You know, last segment, we started a new kind of routine where we talked about a couple different things. One, we shared a review with our audience in the hopes that they would consider providing a review for themselves. And two, we briefly talked about a case that you'd done which resonated and we wanted to share. You want to keep that keep that going?
Chris Dy :Yeah, why don't I share some reviews? I think one of my favorite reviews is this one, let's see here. Love listening to this especially when driving to work. Sometimes had to stay in the car and finish it leave it on just to finish an episode. I appreciate the host for arranging this- more nerve stuff if possible. I really like that review. But he did capture that driveway moment that any casual NPR listener will will recall.
Charles Goldfarb :That is high praise the driveway moment and the sticking around for the end is high praise. It is interesting, podcast listening overall- I think ours is an exception- Well, I know ours is an exception we keep going up. But podcast listening is down because of cars, you know, not driving as much, which is super interesting, but I love that review.
Chris Dy :So I didn't know that I was unaware. But that makes a lot of sense. So and then there's another nice hand surgeon review says, as a hand surgeon, this is one of the best podcasts I listen to every week. And I think I can speak for Chuck in saying, we really appreciate everybody who has been listening. We're kind of in the getting towards 30 episodes pretty quickly. And it's been fun and absolutely worthwhile.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah,this is, you know, it is it is fun. Like that's why we keep doing it because we're having fun. And we hope we're putting out a product that other people have fun with and maybe learn a thing or two. And so, I don't know, I'm super excited about our episode today. I do want to talk briefly about cases but I'm super excited about our episode today.
Chris Dy :I love it when you're excited. But let's talk about a case recently. So I'll dive in. This is not a hand surgery case, it is a nerve surgery case, but it was exciting. Recently, I teamed up with one of our foot and ankle partners for a case in which we treated a gymnast who had been having just some severe pain localized to her tarsal tunnel. And in that, you know, lots of attempts at conservative management. There was some suggestion of a ganglion cyst coming from the subtalar joint and lo and behold, we found a ganglion coming from the subtalar joint and a ton of scar around the medial plantar branch. Right exactly where the tinels sign was holding. So I love marking out the tinels sign ahead of time for these kind of cases and it correlates perfectly to where we found the tightest scar tissue around that medial plantar nerve. So that was incredibly gratifying for me. So far, the patient says she's doing really well. So I've fingers are crossed for that one. How about you any good memory cases recently.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, I did one recently which was, I think satisfying, in large part because it is a case that can be really challenging to figure out the right thing to do. It was a workers compensation patient with diffuse risk pain with MRI. Mission accomplished. Diffuse wrist pain- you know that and MRI was not particularly helpful and she temporarily improved with this direct injection. But to make a long story short, at the time of arthroscopy, the most notable findings was a complete tear SL, other minor stuff going on and I told her that there's a chance we'll convert this to a small open procedure. And I did. I there was ligament remaining, which gave me the optimism that she could potentially heal. And so I did use an internal brace to stabilize the scapholunate interval. It was. I don't use pins when I do that procedure. It was very satisfying. I closed the capsule and I immobilized for six weeks just to really give this a chance to heal. I think I'm not so worried about motion. I'm worried about maintenance of alignment of the carpus. And I've been really happy with that procedure. It's not perfect, but it was better than other options that I've had at my disposal in the past. And so I'm happy with that. I'm happy.
Chris Dy :So that's a that's a tough set of pathologies to deal with. And anything that leaves the surgeon feeling good about the repair, I think is going to be better in the end, especially if you're able to get things moving a little bit quicker.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, I think so. All right. We have a great topic. I told you, I'm excited about this. And you do what I do, which kind of gets into this. You read stuff outside of medicine.
Chris Dy :I'm holding up my hard copy of the Harvard Business Review. And this is this is the moment where people are gonna say the upper hand jumped the shark. It started talking about leadership, started talking about article goes outside in surgery, outside of orthopedic and plastic surgery. But, you know, I think it makes a difference and it gives you different perspectives.
Charles Goldfarb :It is a leadership as a topic that has fascinated me. I try to learn something about leadership every day or every week and I am thankful I've always had mentors in my life, they can provide that. Reading is good. You know, it can't go wrong with reading, but until
Chris Dy :You heard it here first
Charles Goldfarb :you have got to implement stuff. And when you got to see what sticks, right, what works with you and your family at that time. It's so hard. But our topic for the day is 7 side gigs. How would you, how would you even define that? What does that mean to you?
Chris Dy :So what the hell are you asking me because I'm the millennial here.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, I need you to bring the wisdom like you usually do.
Chris Dy :Well, like hardly. But like any millennial, we're going to rely on Google so a side gig or as the kids are calling it now a side hustle is any type of employment undertaken in addition to one's full time job. A side hustle is generally freelance or piecework in nature, providing a supplemental income. Side hustles are often things that person is passionate about rather day or rather than a typical day job work in order to make ends meet. So that is one Google results for a side hustle. I don't know if ours are gonna necessarily provide a supplemental income maybe some of them will but tell me why side gigs are important to you. We're at different points in our careers.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, I will. I think it's really interesting. I think we really are talking more about side hustles (exactly), then side gigs.
Chris Dy :You one day it'll be a side gig.
Charles Goldfarb :Remember just foolish like usual. For me, they are important for a lot of reasons. One is just to keep things fresh. You know, Peter Stern told me years ago that patient care is great, and it drives you and it interests you but ultimately some of the becomes routine. And that's why the super sub- specialization that you find enjoyment with nerve and I find enjoyment with sports and congenital is important. But so are the other things. And I think that's what resonates with me- these other things. Keep it going. Keep it fresh. Does that resonate with you?
Chris Dy :Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that, you know, we even you know, from early in my career, I decided that I needed something to keep me invigorated. You know, I think I've talked about in a prior episode, my father is a general surgeon for largely in his career, he was in private practice, and I saw how that grind was rewarding in some ways, but very, very challenging and others. And you know, I saw the burnout happen, and I definitely, you know, I don't know when I made a conscious decision or whether it was just kind of subconscious the whole way. But I wanted to make sure that I had things that would keep me invigorated and work. And initially that was really being involved in research and knowing that was gonna be part of my career being in academics. It then evolved into you know, adding the having a nerve focus to my practice. And now you know, adding other things, you know, some one example is involvements in our national society.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, it's really interesting. I think we just discovered another episode. So my fathers a surgeon as well. And he was also in private practice. And I don't think I saw burnout but the way he avoided it was you know, it was a job and it was a big job but it was a job and he had lots and lots of hobbies outside of work. I don't know about you, but my, my the number of hobbies I have, I can definitely count on one hand.
Chris Dy :I give this I give this talk about burnout and work life balance and and then we talk about hobbies and everything and then naturally people are like, well, what are your hobbies and I'm like- exercise, podcasts -I fail at hobbies. Although I know I should, and you know, I'll be honest with you, my dad was very different in that respect. He - than your dad- that he doesn't have hobbies. And I don't know, you know, I don't know how much of it is a cultural thing like he came from the Philippines, he immigrated to the US, like, you know, he just kind of worked all the time. And that was his mentality. And he just never had a chance to get into things and now he is like, sort of now found his way because he's retired now into working on things around the house, etc. But no, there were no hobbies along the way, tell you that because I would have learned a lot more things. But now I feel like I need to teach my kid but I don't know. But I'm learning too right now. So, you know, once we learn, you know, I feel like you know, the osteo synthesis work is good practice for woodworking.
Charles Goldfarb :You and I both have it backwards, right. We're learning how to woodworking from bones not by...
Chris Dy :My ability to put things, hang things in the house and, you know, work with drywall and everything is has gotten a lot better as my surgical skills have improved. I'm definitely not the traditional orthopedic applicant who, you know, built a boxcar every summer and you know, and can, you know, see people that have been in construction can build houses have, you know, engineering all stuff. I mean, it's, it's crazy. It's probably not the right sequence to learn things. But right here, we are It goes to show you that anybody can be an orthopedic surgeon,
Charles Goldfarb :That is for sure, we will definitely circle back or maybe it's gonna get too personal. But that is a really interesting conversation, how we kind of both ended up here. But given a lack of hobbies, given a kind of overwhelming presence of work in our lives, these side gigs or side hustles I think really play an important role from one of the issues is we've kind of alluded to this burnout. It is one way to keep things interesting and lively and rejuvenate ourselves. And that I think that's been an important role that these have played for me.
Chris Dy :Ya know, for me, I think that I'm happier. I'm just happier in general, if I'm happy at work, you know, I think I've talked with you about this before. I mean, you know, I had no plans on staying in St. Louis, long term after fellowship. But, you know, we both realized, Tiffany night that is, realized that, you know, if we're both going to be able to be happy at work, it's just gonna make our lives happier. And you know, although I don't have a ton of hobbies outside of work, when I'm happy at work, it just makes my life so much better. And I enjoy every other aspect of it. I'm sure you feel the same way.
Charles Goldfarb :Oh, no doubt about it
Chris Dy :You may work hard, but it makes it If you're happy and you're working hard, you have passion, you have a sense of purpose. It, it carries over. And I think you feel like probably this way, like your kids and your families see why you're working so hard. They understand that you, you know, have something that you're striving towards a sense of purpose, etc. That kind of modeling carries over.
Charles Goldfarb :Right. It's a great point, and maybe we're getting off topic, but that's fine. I have a couple of my kids, mine are a little older than yours, and a couple of them are interested in medicine and it's not as if I talk about why I love what I do or talk about why they should or shouldn't go into medicine, but they see the enjoyment that I have, and, and the fact that we're doing a podcast, which is time consuming that neither of us have the time. And we've directly talked about this, should we do this? Should we continue this, but it's kind of fun, honestly, most of it's fun. And I think that's why we're doing it.
Chris Dy :Yeah. And I think that, you know, talking about talking about what you do, you know, as involving your kids, to me, as a parent, it's a nice, has the benefit of being able to have some cautionary tales. So, you know, when Rafi asked me why I'm leaving, I say, Well, you know, a kiddo, hurt himself. And well, "How Daddy", so he's asking all these questions. And well, how did this work? Well, he was on his bike, and he wasn't being careful. We've had some very premature talks about gun violence, because of you know, "why are you going well, you know, somebody got hurt by a gun". And so, you know, he's actually wanted way more details than I feel comfortable telling him or her that I know about the history. But "why daddy but why"? So there are some, you know, fabricated portions of the history that are convenient to whatever's going on in the house.
Charles Goldfarb :All right, well, let's let's jump into it. So the podcast is clearly one side hustle. Let's make that very clear. It's a side hustle. Because there's not a dime flowing our way on this one.
Chris Dy :Unless, unless anybody's listening and then wants to, you know, somehow we should probably talk about how to turn this into a gig. We haven't yet.
Charles Goldfarb :We should sponsorships are available.
Chris Dy :Well, I mean, you know, to me, the podcast is, is beneficial in a number of ways. It's fun. You know, I feel like it gets some discussion going in the hand surgery community that may not, you know, be going otherwise. And I think it's a useful education tool. You know, recently I had a trainee who started a rotation with me "What up, Paul" and he was in the locker room and he was like, Okay, so what you do to listen to(prepare for) this case he's like, Well, I know all your your questions because I just listened to the scaphoid podcast. "Dammit" . And then the other week I had a trainee who was in clinic and he was like, Well, how do you approach ulnar sided wrist pain? And I'm like, well actually on your way home. I will tell you right now, but also you'll hear mine and Dr. Goldfarb opinions if you just turn this on on the way home.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, I totally agree. So, we probably we should spend the least time talking about podcasts as a side hustle. But Chris and I both feel passionately about this. And you know, everything is a choice, right? How we spend our precious time outside of our traditional work duties, and not by traditional work duties, I mean, clinical care, and how we spend our time outside of clinical care. It's all a balance.
Chris Dy :Yeah. And I think that you know, one thing about you know, when you look at these side hustle opportunities, is what do they bring to the table not only from outside of your personal fulfillment, but also value from advancing what you are interested in doing. For me doing the research is kind of like a side hustle in the sense that in that it is, you know, not directly involved with clinical care. But it brings me joy and invigorates me. And I think it adds value in other ways, and certainly that it's good for my career in a sense, but, you know, I dedicate more time to that than others because it's, it's truly important to me.
Charles Goldfarb :That's right. And we each define what is important quite differently.
Chris Dy :Well so for you, I mean, you're now you know, you're at the stage in your career, you're a full professor, and you're very involved in our departments leadership. And I guarantee you there are a lot of people listening saying, God, I would never want to be involved in management, administration of an organization. So how did you evolve towards that and what brings you joy about that?
Charles Goldfarb :I do enjoy management. I enjoy efficiencies. And you know, early on, I thought for sure I would get my MBA. I took the GMAT early on and I thought for sure I would get my MBA and I've just never, never could find quite the justification or the time to make that happen. You took the GMAT?
Chris Dy :I took the GMAT So one stage in your life that you take the GMAT
Charles Goldfarb :In medical school and it went well. And I thought for sure I would I would go ahead and go to business school, I just never pulled the trigger.
Chris Dy :The number of kids that lives have changed, because you didn't get your MBA and end up on the other side early on.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, it's it still remains interesting. So the business side remains interesting. And what's been wonderful about our department is each time I've needed a new challenge. administratively, there's been one which is now kind of the Executive Vice Chair role. And man, it is very different than clinical care. And it's a lot of problem solving and a lot of challenging situations, a lot of financial, especially with COVID. So it's been a real satisfier for me,
Chris Dy :Well, that brings up a good point is that you know, the side hustles, in what is important to you changes over the course of your life and over the course of your career. You know, to me right now, you know, the management aspects are not important. But maybe one point down the line, they will be. You know, very early on when I was in medical school, I was very much involved in international trips. That was part of the lifeblood of being in medical school at the University of Miami, is that, you know, I took several trips to Haiti and found them incredibly invigorating, and they were groups going to, you know, all over the Caribbean and in other parts of the world. But that hasn't been part of my calculus right now. And maybe it will be in the future. I mean, that's something that you've spent time on. Why do you How did you start doing that? And why do you do it out of all, that takes weeks out of the year?
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, that's exactly right. So the choice to go on a international care trip is a big one. And for me, I've only done this rarely. so far. I've been looking for the right time in my career, and I'll- just jumping back You know, no one starting their practice probably should have a number of side hustles. Right? There's just too much importance on continuing the educational process for learning how to be a great doctor. And not to say that I have all the answers or you have all the answers in that realm yet. But we've figured a lot of things out so that we do have time and energy to devote to other areas. Mission trips, says they probably should not be called anymore. But the international trips to provide care are remarkably rejuvenating. And it is a big ask to take a week from your work and take a week from your family and do this but I've done it with the World Pediatric Project, and I will do it again. And it was as good as advertised or perhaps even better.
Chris Dy :And like you said, you got to have the skills to pay the bills, you know, so you got to be able to bring something to the table because you're going to be working in an environment that you don't have your normal setup your normal team, you're going to have to be a little savvy and and think on your feet. And, like, like you said, you know, you got to be a good surgeon first or a good doctor, you know. And, for me, you know, I emphasize that when I give my kind of talk on work life balance, that first and foremost, you have to be technically excellent. And that's something that your former partner and our former chairman Richard Gelberman, hammered in us early on, at least when I was a trainee. And, you know, when I was under his tutelage as a, you know, continue to be a young faculty member. So I think that's super, super important. And a lot of people have aspirations of ascending, you know, and being involved in national societies, but without being good at patient care. You know, you're going to be limited.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, I think we should talk about national societies. I think you're right, these side hustles or side gigs, can't make up for a fundamental problem in your clinical life. They are, you know, I guess the assumption is, things are good in the clinical care arena. You have gone through this the early steps of your career and you've gotten to a comfortable spot. Things are relatively status quo. As we all know, as soon as you feel good about what what's going on in your clinical life, you'll have an adverse event, but things are pretty good. And then you focus on what else can you bring to the table? Because I don't think that side hustles can make up for a problem in the clinical care arena.
Chris Dy :You bring- you I think that something that and I'll say something is probably a little controversial, but, you know, when we're, for example, reviewing applications for fellowship or reviewing applications for residency, and there are a lot of applicants that have numerous extracurricular type activities, side hustle type things going on. If there are too many, you're like, well, when do they have time to be an orthopedic resident or a plastics resident? Or when do they have time to learn how to be a doctor? So it's a fine line. And of course, everything needs to be placed in context. And we talk about that when we interview somebody as opposed to just judging them on paper. But you're right, it cannot make up for a lack of clinical acumen.
Charles Goldfarb :Right, right. So national society work is a it's definitely not a gig. It's a hustle because there's no financial renumeration for these activities. But I've enjoyed it. And a lot of these things have one thing in common. And the thing they have in common is interaction with great people. And all of us, you know, certainly we are blessed with a really great department and division of hand surgery. But the national society work that I've done and will continue to do is made more valuable and brings more for me when I learn from others who are smarter, more experienced, smarter and experienced in a different way. But that is a huge value proposition across all of these side gigs.
Chris Dy :Agreed? You know, I think that the temptation is to do the national society work to be almost transactional. But it is way more fun when you just let things grow organically. You know, clearly we all have professional aspirations. But if you enjoy the moments and do good work, things will happen. And there's so many people will tell you that you know, people who have started on committees and become committee chairs, and then just do more and more. But if you're in it for the race, it's not enjoyable. You have to be in it because you want to make a difference. For example, you know, the community and surgeons or community orthopedic surgeons, etc. Doing it to checkboxes and ascend is, is not enjoyable.
Charles Goldfarb :Oh, I think that's right. And I know we all have theoretical goals. But I don't see any of these side gigs as stepping stones. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm naive. But in my readings on kind of leadership and personal fulfillment, it is about the journey and you have to find enjoyment in the journey, which is kind of what the whole podcast is about today. But not necessarily using these as stepping stones as I said,
Chris Dy :Yeah, if you try to be too tactical about it, it just doesn't work out because too many things have to fall in line perfectly for that to happen. So you will then fall short of your goal. And then you won't have any fun along the way. And this is, you know, I don't mean to get cheesy, but life is way too short to not enjoy what you're doing.
Charles Goldfarb :No, that's right. That's right. So what about things outside of medicine? So I have not had the opportunity to be on a local or national non medical board. My wife lives a very different life kind of in the entrepreneurial space, which actually brings me joy, watching her and seeing what she's accomplished. Ultimately, in the back of my mind, I think a board presence in the non medical world might be helpful against a time balance, but what about you any any thoughts in that area?
Chris Dy :I would love to do it. I just don't have the time right now. And then a good opportunity hasn't come up. You know, I think that you know, doing something like that involved with a school or church or other kind of community organization would be really great. It's just I haven't found the time to do it. Now, I think that you know, getting involved in that you need to make, make a push initially to show you're interested, especially coming from, you know, being in the medical space like people don't, like people in our shoes don't typically do that kind of thing. So you don't know the right people who are involved. It is people that are in business and entrepreneurship, who are involved. So they think of each other when they're looking to fill positions. So I think that one day, you know, I'd like to do it, I just haven't had the opportunity nor the bandwidth, honestly, right now.
Charles Goldfarb :Right, totally agree. And, you know, we financially support a number of organizations. And I think that's another entree into this world. But we also don't throw gobs of money at any particular organization, which, to me, it seems like that is one of the ways you are asked to be involved. And so maybe, you know, maybe in the future, who knows,
Chris Dy :Yeah, so when I get gobs of money, that will be awesome. And I'll let you. I'm hoping that things happen in different ways. Speaking of gobs of money. Yeah, so a lot of surgeons are involved in industry. So have you had any experiences interacting with industry? Anything that you've taken away from that?
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, so I have a little involvement, I certainly would not call myself very involved. I worked with one organization or one company, I should be very specific, for a while. And it ended up being an educational opportunity for me, not a development opportunity. And I was in it, I have plenty of opportunities to educate, you know, in my daily life, and in my national involvement, so that wasn't as satisfying for me as what I was looking for. Now, I'm working with another company. That seems like that will be an important part of the relationship. And again, though, it is about doing new things, and that's development of a product. And it's about meeting different people who see the world differently and bring different experiences to the table. So I don't think it makes sense to get involved with industry too early in one's career, both because you don't want to be labeled as, you know, "Joe, who is involved with three different companies and is it all for the money" because you can't get labeled. For me, I very carefully started on this pathway well into my second decade of practice, and I'm not going to be involved with a number of companies. But I hope and think my reputation is such that I'm not seen that way, anyway.
Chris Dy :Yeah, I struggle with with the mainly the conflict of interest part of it. You know, I think that I'm very sensitive to that sensitive to that at this point in my career, especially, you know, wanting to have a national presence and be known as somebody who is thoughtful. At this point. I don't want to be even considered as somebody who might have, you know, be beholden in a sense and not the other. There are plenty of our colleagues who do great work, are thought leaders, are unbiased, but have relationships with industry. So, you know, we should say that that can be done and is done well, it just wasn't for me at this point. But you know, there is there are advantages to be involved. Even if you're not in the design part of it, you know, you want to be in the room where it happens, you know, to quote Hamilton and John Bolton, apparently. But being in the room is so helpful because you get you learn yourself, you get to contribute, and you'll be networking with people that are involved, and that will help you down the line, you know, either within that group or outside of that platform. So, you know, I had a couple of opportunities to consult recently for a company and I wasn't comfortable taking on the conflict of interest. So I decided that my consulting fees would be donated directly to The Hand Society so that I wouldn't touch any of the money and that I could still participate, you know, because I wanted to participate. I wanted to help and I wanted to be there, but I wasn't comfortable taking the financial conflict.
Charles Goldfarb :Wow, that's great. I did not know that. Yeah, that's that's a really smart way to go about it. And again, as you start your career, there's just so many other things going on, it probably doesn't make sense to get involved too soon. What about legal work? That's a little bit of a side gig.
Chris Dy :Yeah, that can definitely be a gig. You know, I will, early on, you know, I received advice to obviously get your board certification done, get your CAQ, get good at taking care of patients, and everything will follow. You know, for me, I would be involved in doing you know, obviously, the standard depositions that you have to do for your own patients and their kind of suits and stuff. So that helped me develop some experience. I recently did my first expert witness deal, but it was a, it was something that I was very nervous about initially, then you realize it is just kind of like talking in conference, in a sense. You just have to be very careful with your words. I don't see that as being a big part of my life right now, but I can see how it's enjoyable. I don't. As much as as a doctor, I think we all kind of cringe when we think about the legal stuff. But it's like you want good people doing this kind of stuff. You don't want somebody who is purely in it for the money. So I think there will, that'll probably be something that I do more. But you know, I'm not quite sure yet. How about you?
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, I do some I would say a little of this, I can quickly become overwhelming because if you do a good job, you will be requested more and more often. And I turned down a lot of this work. I try to be smart about what cases I take on. I don't just represent one side, that's for sure. It's certainly more pleasurable to represent a physician. But I also think we have a role to play in society. And I don't think we do a particularly good job as physicians in making sure across the board that we provide excellent care and there is an implant roll, you hate to think of it as a legal proceeding, but they're the self policing is really important. And I don't you know, I just try to be as honest and direct as I can when I'm doing these cases based on the science, based on what we know, strongly to be acceptable or unacceptable provision of care. So I don't think I'll do more of this as time goes on. But a low level, I think is important and it has been enjoyable for me.
Chris Dy :So, you know, to bring this to a close, you know, to you listed and outlined here for us. And your last thing that you listen is something I would have never expected for you- learning a language. So tell me how you put this through. Because I don't know if most people would consider that a side hustle.
Charles Goldfarb :Well, I'm getting older and there's different ways to keep your brain sharp. Apparently, learning a language is one of them. I try I tried early in my career to learn
Chris Dy :You to play Sudoku without learning Spanish. There are things you can do.
Charles Goldfarb :True, I guess I've just always had a fascination with Spanish. And it's because of failures in my life in high school. I wasn't good at it. As I started my career, I took a class and wasn't good at it. Now I have an app. It is one of those things that's super interesting. And no, I probably will never learn to speak Spanish. But you know what, it's gonna stay on my list.
Chris Dy :No, but now you've publicly committed to and we know that one of the predictors of success is whether you publicly commit to something so you hear it here first Chuck Goldfarb will hablo espanol this time next year. Give me a timeframe.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, but next time you see me in a meeting, just come up and start speaking rapidfire Spanish?
Chris Dy :Well, by the time that we're all allowed to travel internationally, you should be ready. So
Charles Goldfarb :That is true. Back to my app after this podcast ends,
Chris Dy :So we're at the end here, so why don't we run down the list of what we think are the side gigs for somebody in medicine?
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, so seven side gigs or seven side hustles that Chris and I find important to think about.
Chris Dy :So the first one is a National Society work.
Charles Goldfarb :And we both agree that that has an important place in both of our hearts currently and in the future. international travel for provision of care again, really impactful stuff for both of us and I think both of us will look to continue that in the future- it's easier in some parts of orthopedics. So congenital care is one of the no brainers but the reward is, is immense.
Chris Dy :I mean, you're not bringing tons of trays with you for that. So that's nice.
Charles Goldfarb :Just a couple of K wires. I think that accurate.
Chris Dy :And in the next one was involvement in local community or national boards outside of medicine.
Charles Goldfarb :Yeah, good one that both of us need to or will eventually I guess, involve ourselves. Just pure random things like a podcast,
Chris Dy :Or your blog, like you talked about before,
Charles Goldfarb :Or a blog, I mean things that give you enjoyment, even if they don't, you know, even if you're not sure exactly where they fit in your life, if something brings you enjoyment, it's whether or not it's related to medicine then then fantastic.
Chris Dy :And then accumulating conflicts of interest with industry.
Charles Goldfarb :Yes, oh gosh, yeah, accumulating conflicts of interest. And then management, I think is our sixth side gig that we're listing here. And that is whether that's officially in the department. Whether that you know, as a defined role or whether you just take a mentorship role, which we really didn't talk about as a side gig, but it certainly is. Any of those. Both of those qualify.
Chris Dy :Then you heard it here. First, our final side hustle is that Chuck Goldfarb wants to learn Spanish.
Charles Goldfarb :You heard it
Chris Dy :At least five times so it's kind of like a wish you got repeated multiple times.
Charles Goldfarb :My children and wife laugh at me when they hear me trying to even say the words but I will continue down that pathway I am committed
Chris Dy :Alright, well if you do it on that app, let me know because I certainly need to refresh my Spanish it is deteriorated greatly since living in Miami so we'll get there one day.
Charles Goldfarb :Perfect. So for all you listeners who have side gigs that we did not mention, reach out, you know, on Twitter, email us. There could be a follow up podcast here. But this has been fun as usual.
Chris Dy :Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna put it out there right now the best side hustle submission, we'll get an upper hand coffee mug.
Charles Goldfarb :That's right. The upper hand coffee mug in high demand.
Chris Dy :The number of the number of I think we're venturing into hours that Chuck and I have spent trying to get these coffee mugs just right. Don't tell Regis, just don't tell our chairman how much time we spent on this device. Wives.
Charles Goldfarb :Design may be a failed side gig for both?
Chris Dy :Oh no, you'll see the mug. It's another fail just took way too long.
Charles Goldfarb :Fair enough. All right, everyone, the coffee mug is going to be marketed on Twitter soon enough as soon as we have in our hands
Chris Dy :I hope this wasn't the way that you wanted to turn the side hustle into a side gig.
Charles Goldfarb :Oh, you might be buying these things from us.
Chris Dy :Exactly. couldn't give them away. We have a lot of them now because you got to buy them in bulk. So all right till next Till next time, everybody.
Charles Goldfarb :Thank you for listening. You've made it to the end.
Chris Dy :Please keep in touch with us over social media. You can reach us @handpodcast on Twitter. And my Twitter handle is at ChrisDyMD and that spelled D-Y
Charles Goldfarb :And you can contact me at @congenitalhand
Chris Dy :If you need to email us please do its handpodcast@gmail.com
Charles Goldfarb :Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
Chris Dy :And don't forget to leave a review helps us get the word out.
Charles Goldfarb :Special thanks for the amazing jazz music. It comes from Peter Martin. And remember, keep the upper hand and come back next time.