TUP EP 099
Voiceover: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Susanna Ludwig, and I think an uplifter is someone who is able to see the love and goodness in [00:00:15] everyone and help them to share that with the world. Shayna is a woman deep in her midlife journey. She's a clinical psychologist, certified mindfulness meditation teacher, midlife researcher, and long term Zen practitioner.
A mother of two young adult [00:00:30] daughters, a wife, a caregiving daughter in law, community volunteer, and as of recently, an Amazon bestseller. As if that list isn't long and impressive enough, she is also somehow like so many of us. Many more things to many others on any given [00:00:45] day. I consider myself lucky to call her a friend and beyond blessed to have found her right now, especially as I currently sit smack in what Shaina calls the middle.
Hey, it's Ransa
Aransas: Savas, the host of the Uplifters podcast. Every week, I have the [00:01:00] incredible privilege of bringing you another amazing story of an inspiring, brave, bold woman who, just like you and me, is freaking scared most of the time and just trying to figure out how to do the next most courageous [00:01:15] thing in her life, whether it's in her work, relationships, her self care, her creative goals, you name it.
None of us know all the answers. Through each other's stories, we can find new ways of [00:01:30] experiencing changes and challenges that we face. You just heard Tracy Seary, a longtime listener of this show, nominate a woman who inspires her, Dr. Shana Kaufman. And in this conversation, Dr. Shana and I are going to talk about menopause, which I feel like [00:01:45] everybody's talking about.
Might be biased because of course I'm turning 50 in a couple of weeks, but it feels like Every startup is targeted for midlife menopausal women and every celebrity is sharing her story. I am really, [00:02:00] really, really grateful to enter this midlife stage at this moment where people are having honest conversations about this.
However, I think a lot of those conversations really focus [00:02:15] on what we're losing. And that kind of sucks the life out of me. That feels like a drag. Today, Dr. Shana and I are going to talk about other ways we might face this time of change. Ways of [00:02:30] processing the hard and the uncomfortable and the messy bits of it, but also maybe celebrating the opportunities that come with this time.
And the truth is, if you look at the research, The more attention we pay to the [00:02:45] possibilities and the opportunities, the more we will experience the positive aspects of change. So if you like me are feeling a little bit nervous about some of the changes that are happening in your own life, in your [00:03:00] own body right now, I hope you find a little bit of maybe even excitement in this conversation.
I know I did. Thanks for coming here today, Shaina. So Tracy, Siri, reached out to me, [00:03:15] long time listener of the show, and she said, I have the perfect person for you. And what I've learned is that when people know one person and they're like, I have the person for you, they're always right. And she said, you have to meet my [00:03:30] friend, Dr.
Shaina. So why do you think you were the person who came to mind for her when she thought about a proof point? That we can do courageous things. Tracy, [00:03:45]
Shayna: I met virtually and probably didn't meet her in person for three or four years after we connected. I don't even remember how she found me, but she joined a online meditation group that I was [00:04:00] offering in January of 2021, shortly after COVID began.
And the world was turned upside down, and I thought, this is something I can offer. It's a tool, and at that point in time. People were open to anything and everything. The world was upside [00:04:15] down, so why not try something outside the box? We were all desperate. So I had offered this, you know, women's meditation group for anyone as both a January and COVID offering.
Tracy showed up. That group Which was meant to be a January [00:04:30] 2020 offering is now entering its fourth year And I think Tracy has probably been to most every single Thursday in those four years as well as a number of workshops and retreats That i've done in person So I think Tracy Both [00:04:45] experienced and learned a lot about the magic of presence and you talked about fear and fear being such a common human experience that you're right, it's not bad.
It's a signal and part of my [00:05:00] path is being present to what is and not trying to sidestep fear or any emotion that shows up because none of them are good or bad. They just are. And to be present to that. So I think Tracy might have [00:05:15] connected us knowing that we're both see fear and other emotions as invitations, not necessarily bad things.
And my path is to be with them and then see what follows after that.
Aransas: [00:05:30] I love that. And when I asked you before this conversation about times that you have personally shown me. Courage. You listed three things. You said when you decided to leave your successful career as a forensic [00:05:45] psychologist without any clue what you would do next.
I mean, that's the very definition of bravery in my mind. Two, when you let go of the belief that you had to know what was next before leaving something and had to be an expert at something before you begin [00:06:00] it. I thought you were too old at 50 to make a complete career transition. And then three, That working in a prestigious, lucrative field that was sucking the life out of you was a symbol that it was [00:06:15] time to do something different and that you would actively regret not doing it if you didn't take the plunge and do something more heart centered and aligned.
Shayna: Yeah, the career shift, I think another one was going through [00:06:30] grief and the fear that grief can overtake you and Subsequent years not long after this career transition I also had a succession of both parents and a sibling dying in a very concentrated amount of time and the [00:06:45] courage to be with grief and because there's a fear at least I had a fear that with this Depth and, and degree of loss at one time, I was going to be swallowed up by grief and I couldn't handle it and [00:07:00] I was just going to go under.
And the courage to not sidestep grief, but to be with that grief.
Aransas: One of the things that is really standing out to me as I listen to these examples and other stories about your [00:07:15] experience, there is this through line in so many of these things These are all experiences that we are taught to dread. Yes.
Look out for midlife. Look out for a career change. Look out for a move. Look [00:07:30] out for grief. Look out for injury because these things will take you down. Exactly. Right. And so we've given these big messages of you should be afraid of this stuff. And it sounds like for you, the [00:07:45] shift was saying, wait, what if there's another way to look at this?
Shayna: What is the way to approach it and also that this is normal human stuff We're all going to go through so I think the watch out is going to take you [00:08:00] down Which yes, I've kind of got into that a little bit was it's a setup for us because then We're kind of dreading it and putting up our armor. My whole body clenches as you say that.
But instead of appreciating that, we're all [00:08:15] going to go through loss. It's just a natural human experience. We may or may not go through career changes. We're all going to go through some physical decline or maybe not pain, but certainly physical changes. And rather than. [00:08:30] Seeing them at this, as this dreaded thing, seeing this as the normal human condition and choosing to respond rather than just react.
I think we have, it's much more empowering to see these life [00:08:45] transitions as something that we can go through, not get through, if that makes sense.
Music: Mm hmm.
Shayna: We can go through them. And, and what I also learned, And going through them and not avoiding them or sidestepping [00:09:00] them or trying to seek comfort when pain was what was present.
I came out the other side way stronger and more empowered than I could have envisioned because I didn't sidestep it. And I built fortitude and I built [00:09:15] resilience and I found an inner strength that I didn't knew existed that was within me that was very much there. So part of what I'm agreeing with you so much so is that that narrative around natural hard [00:09:30] times that accompany natural joyful times sets us up for so much more discomfort than we have to have, which is an added layer of the discomfort we're going to have anyway.
But the, you know, the mindset going into it, aggravating that.
Aransas: If we [00:09:45] believe that it is a defensive position to be in, then we will act as if we need to put our defenses up. Exactly. And that there's conflict. But I think The alternative way is a creative way. And [00:10:00] I hear that's what I really hear coming through for you and your approach, which is, Oh, well, what are my choices here?
How can I be with this? How can I grow with this? How might I use this for something greater? [00:10:15] It's really easy to try to rescue ourselves from pain and to rescue others from pain and to just say like, let me wrap myself or others in bubble wrap so that nothing bad ever happens. And then to your point, we never learn.
We have any [00:10:30] resilience. We are completely overwhelmed by all of the inevitabilities of life and we end up playing small because we can only feel safe within a constrained space. I know you. Principally work with [00:10:45] women in midlife and I hear in your stories of transition, how much courage you tapped into and how many limiting beliefs you looked right in the face.
From your work [00:11:00] now, from talking to so many women in midlife, and I ask this as a woman who is, you know, flat up against my 50th birthday, which I'm actually super freaking excited about, Although my family have lived till 100, so I just have this assumption that this is like a halfway point. You're just halfway.
Yeah. And I'm [00:11:15] like, Oh my gosh, this has already been so much fun. What's going to happen in the next half? It's like, you know, at Disney World or whatever, when you get off the ride and then they're like, no, you get to go again. This is like, yes. Oh, okay. What a beautiful perspective. I love that. [00:11:30] It really is.
I mean, I have some good role models too. My grandmother's 95. Uh, she'll be 96 in June and she's still running every day and she still does her yoga every day. What? She's a beast.
Shayna: Oh my gosh. Still running. Positive role models.
Aransas: [00:11:45] Yes. Positive role models matter. But what are some of the most persistent and common fears that you hear from women in midlife?
Shayna: Yeah, great question. The opposite of what you're thinking. So women [00:12:00] approaching kind of the middle decades and older and thinking that it's too late. And then I've missed this window and that I've aged out. So really seeing it, you're seeing is at this, woo, I'm just halfway and it's going to get better and better.
And [00:12:15] they're seeing it as I've just peaked and now I'm going down. It's too late to find a better partner. It's too late to switch careers. My body is. It's never going to look the same again, I'm never going to be as beautiful, blah, blah, blah. That's part of it. Fear [00:12:30] of a real, I kind of call it an existential reckoning, because at midlife so many of our roles change.
Menopause is not just all the hormonal fluctuations going on, but it's also the signal that ability to bear [00:12:45] children. That door shut and so there's a huge mental loss for some women that goes with that. So menopause, if we have kids, as our kids are launching and growing and our mom role is whittling down and [00:13:00] taking a very different picture, that's often, who am I with my mother?
If I, my mom role was my primary identity, who am I? And for some women that did choose to stay home with children. They're questioning, do I re enter the workforce and [00:13:15] how do I re enter the workforce? I've been out of it for 18 years. So there's a lot of who am I? What am I? Where do I go from here? That's often fear.
That's often fear based because there isn't markers for that. Other [00:13:30] fears around things that we didn't expect, such as caregiving. We're in that sandwich generation where for many of us, if we're fortunate, our parents are still around and we may or may not have kids in the mix. But all of a sudden, we're switching from being the [00:13:45] care receivers from the older generations to the care providers.
Big mental shift in that. So so many changes and so much fear about how to navigate these huge differences in our [00:14:00] lives comes up.
Aransas: Yeah, the sense that what success looks like stays the same. And so instead of opening up our lens and saying like, what is this time perfect for? So I, it's a question I ask a lot in my work is like, [00:14:15] what is this moment perfect for?
But what I'm hearing is a redefining of that question in terms of life stage. Like what is this moment perfect for? What's my midlife body perfect for? What's my midlife time [00:14:30] freedom perfect for? What is my purpose perfect for now?
Shayna: I love that. What is this moment perfect for? I am, I am borrowing that one.
I'm sticking out there on a sticky, you know, somewhere on my calendar or something. I love that. Thank you for [00:14:45] sharing that. Yeah, you're right. The perception is, is midlife being kind of crisis and dread rather than power and joy. And I'll go back to something you brought up in my own experience. About your age, you know, right on the cusp of 50, [00:15:00] very successful forensic psychologist, you know, testifying in court, writing academic papers.
And like a hard career. A hard career, but also a very.
Aransas: Who's
Shayna: a
Aransas: forensic psychologist? Very sexy career, right? I mean, not sexy. It [00:15:15] is
Shayna: super sexy. It is sexy. Yeah. I was very popular at parties because everyone wants to hear stories. Yeah. There was a power in that for me that I could be like, I do this, I'm cool, and everyone's interested in what I do.
And I could [00:15:30] hide behind that because it was prestigious and lucrative and a bit wow. And it was a career that had served its time and purpose. And as I was, it was getting darker and darker and harder and harder for [00:15:45] me and became increasingly unaligned with who I was. I mean, going to jails, testifying in court.
was part of me. And then here was this mother, zen practitioner, those two worlds were not meshing anymore. And this was the [00:16:00] real me and the other world was an older version of me. But as I'm approaching 15, I'm thinking, what am I going to do? I mean, I've got a doctorate, there's opportunities, but this has been my profession, you know, for 25 years.
I'm really good at it. Do I stay here [00:16:15] because it's got all those perks? A bigger part of me knew that if I did stay in this career, it would be a lifelong regret because there was something more aligned with me that was going to bring me much deeper satisfaction. So both [00:16:30] were there, both the fear of, Oh my gosh, what's next?
And to your question, what's the perfect thing for now? And I didn't have an answer to that. The answer came in a meditation retreat when I had a hot flash. So I'm, I'm at this juncture of career where I [00:16:45] know I have to leak it. There's not a question. I don't know what. And going to meditation retreats, you know, three to five days silent meditation retreats is something that I've done, you know, three times a year.
So this is probably my 30th retreat. I wasn't new to this and it was the third [00:17:00] day and the afternoon of retreat. And these are silent retreats, by the way. There's no talking. There's, you're staring at a white wall. There's no massages. People are like, Oh, retreat. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. It is not like that.
So it's the afternoon block and it's a [00:17:15] super hot, sticky day. And we don't have AC in San Diego because it doesn't get that hot here. And I go to sit down after lunch and, which is also my hardest meditation block because it's after lunch. It's kind of a tired time of day. You're digesting your food. And it's also the [00:17:30] hottest time of day.
So I'm, I'm in the meditation retreat and they ring the bell to start this block and I'm already kind of kvetchy, you know, and so I sit down and try to get still and literally right when they ring that bell to start the block, here comes a hot [00:17:45] flash. It was like the hot flash was like waiting for the bell to be rung so it could be like, okay, we're on.
And I'm sitting there going, you've got to be effing kidding. Like now, seriously. My hair's not even a ponytail. I can't fan [00:18:00] myself. I can't do anything to seek comfort. This sucks. I can't believe it. And this went on and on, which is the total opposite of what you're supposed to be doing in a meditation retreat, which is just being present to it is.
And so, and by the way, all this scratching was on my head because I couldn't complain to anyone because [00:18:15] I'm just sitting there in my head having my, my pity party. So when I remembered that, Oh, yeah, I'm at a meditation retreat, that the directions are clear, bring it back to the body, experience what's going on.
And I did that. And let me tell you, there's like a party of sensations happening in the body [00:18:30] and a hot flash. You know, I could feel the sweat going down my cheek. I could feel the heat rising and falling. You know, I could feel, Oh, I never realized that sweat accumulates here. It was just like fascinating.
Exploration of this hot of this hot flash and all the [00:18:45] bitching and moaning was gone So they rang the bell 30 minutes later and I kind of jumped because I was so engrossed In the experience of in the aftermath of the hot flash and I had this like wild epiphany that wow When all the narrative which was [00:19:00] put to rest and I was just present to the hot flash it completely transformed it All it was was a temporary sensation of heat.
That was it And then it was over. So the whole story, the narrative around it, is mostly what made it so [00:19:15] miserable. And that misery was also what you talked about earlier, that message of what we're supposed to expect. Like, we're supposed to dread those hot flashes, they're terrible, they're gonna take us over, we all dread them.
They weren't that big of a deal. At least for me, for someone when they're horrible, but [00:19:30] they became a big deal because the story around them was such a big deal. So when they would happen, it was immediately seek comfort, seek comfort, not just be present. And they're gone as fast as they come on. So that epiphany of just leaning into the hot [00:19:45] flash transformed it.
And then it led to a further epiphany that all of this other midlife stuff was right on my horizon. The kids were about to launch, one was a senior, one was a sophomore. My mother had been diagnosed with dementia. That journey was [00:20:00] beginning. I was needing to retire and have knee surgery after 40 years of being a runner.
This is going to happen whether I liked it or not. So I had a choice. I could bitch about it like I did the hot flash. I don't want this to happen. Woe is me. Why can't I be a runner? [00:20:15] Or I could say, this is it. And let me be present to it. And let's see what happens. And that was the birth actually of, and I thought, what is the word I'm aspiring to for all this stuff?
Like, what is my intention? What is my word? And the word was [00:20:30] embracing because I want to be gentle with it. I wanted to just embrace it, but then accept it. It's happening. Okay. You know, I accept it. That's very different than I accept it and I'm going to gently be present to it. So that was [00:20:45] the birth of
Aransas: my intention.
I love that you use the word birth over and over too because, well, first of all, I feel like how freaking lucky am I at 49 and nine tenths or whatever to be having this conversation with you in this [00:21:00] exact moment as a mother of two girls who are a freshman and a junior. So I'm like one year behind your Genesis story here.
I haven't had my first hot flush and I've gotten the message that this is awful and I should [00:21:15] dread it.
Shayna: It can be, by the way, just for reality check. Some people, it's like a hiccup. Yeah. Some people it's bad. Some people don't even know they're in menopause. So don't buy into that. It's horrible for everyone.
Aransas: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Cause my, my mom says she was just [00:21:30] mean for a year and she looks back and she's like, Oh, Oh, That was my menopause transition was this year where I just felt like this intense meanness. And my grandmother really has no recollection of it.
Shayna: Which also tells you that in retrospect, it's like [00:21:45] a hiccup.
It's a very small, concentrated part of time. It does not encapsulate. The Gestalt of the Midlife Experience. It really is just this little window that can be pretty intense. And then [00:22:00] it kind of winds down. So I think we make it, I mean, for some women, it can be, I mean, just cause I interviewed 619 women at my research.
And what I learned from these women is that it ranged from some women who didn't even know they were [00:22:15] on menopause to their doctors told them when they went in for a physical to other women who their lives turned upside down. So huge variability in terms of how it manifests, how long it manifests and that sort of thing.
Huge variability. That's so good.
Aransas: [00:22:30] And I'm realizing too that what I've found over and over in my life is that when I fear something happening, it happens. And so I'm just going to set this intention right now with you, Shana, that I'm just going to be on the ride. And it [00:22:45] is actually, I went to a hypnobirthing class for my first daughter and I honestly don't remember much.
But she said one thing that's really stuck with me and that I use throughout labor and delivery, which she said, you're not being injured [00:23:00] during labor. This is, there is a difference between pressure and pain. So you do not have to react as though you are being injured. This is a, it is your uterus contracting, right?
And so that [00:23:15] reframe of, oh. those fear signals that my body has internalized as a response to pain, flee, get away, protect yourself. I don't need to call those in right now. I can sense this as [00:23:30] pressure and sensing it as pressure was.
Shayna: Exactly. You were doing what I did with the hot flash. You were riding the wave of a, of a, of a contraction without the added narrative of I'm going to be [00:23:45] hurt.
This is terrible. You were just present to the wave of the contraction. That was beautiful.
Aransas: Thank you. And hearing you say, share your story though, opened up the pathway that said, Oh, I know how to do this. [00:24:00] I've got some practice here. I can go run that race again, and that
Shayna: way. And that's the beauty of midlife is that all these years of experience, we have cultivated tools.
We have a lot of tools in our toolbox and different tools work [00:24:15] for different women. We know what works for us. And so we bring that experience of, of having gotten through difficult times and the knowledge that we do get through them into this next chapter. So I'm more prepared than we think
Aransas: we are.
What are some of the other big [00:24:30] insights that came out of your research?
Shayna: We're far more alike than different. Because I interviewed women from around the globe and I was actually looking from a statistical perspective whether there are cultural differences to the female midlife experience. So my [00:24:45] takeaway was that although there are micro differences within people and with cultures, the macro experience of being a woman in midlife is the same.
We, we all, I mean the big ones that Our biggest pain points is our physical [00:25:00] decline and it's going to happen to different degrees to different people, but you know, it happens to us all physical decline, death and loss, you know, it's going to happen. It's that time of life and it's not not just elders, you know, we start to lose [00:25:15] friends.
I lost a sibling. I never thought I would lose a sibling when he was 60. Um, death and loss is the big pain point. And then another one is something we already touched on, which is that kind of sandwich crunch, that navigating multi generations and being [00:25:30] in the middle and the caregiving needs that goes with that.
Other takeaways was so many gifts that come with midlife and part of my mission is to really have women widen their lens and be more [00:25:45] mindful and attentive to the plethora of gifts that come with age. So I teach about this and explore this and the top gifts that came out of the research wisdom because we have live longer.
It's not just the wisdom of. Hearing a [00:26:00] cliche, but it's knowing that cliche in our body because we've lived it. So this too shall pass. Yes, intellectually, we know that's true by midlife. We have gone through breakups. We have gone through hardships. We know on a visceral [00:26:15] level, this will pass. So I call it embodied wisdom.
The wisdom that just comes from number of years around the sun, extracting lessons from that. Self awareness, comfort in our skin. The fulfillment of female friendships [00:26:30] being so much richer and powerful and how, how much we turn to our female friendships during hard times. So the many, many gifts and some women just didn't even stop to think about it.
Like, they're there, but because the gifts of [00:26:45] aging are more subtle than the challenges, we don't notice them as much. It's a really beautiful thing when we pause to take stock, and then when we see them happening in real time, when we catch ourselves having a challenge, you know, for [00:27:00] me, my computer crashes.
Historically, I would spiral, it would be the end of the world, I would flip out, and now it's like, take a deep breath, try a few times. See what happens, call the, you know, so we we catch ourselves in real [00:27:15] time handling things much more differently and knowing what's even worth getting a rise about because, you know, we don't sweat the small stuff literally as much.
And the mutual satisfaction we can [00:27:30] get from being with like minded women because I think that competition is lessened, that comparison, that we've all come into our own so we connect women to women much more [00:27:45] easily and be there to support each other and lift each other up.
Aransas: What patterns did you notice amongst the women who were most enjoying the benefits of the second half of life?
Shayna: A mindset was one, a [00:28:00] mindset that was sort of like yours, instead of, you know, this is the end, this is the beginning, or this is the start of a new chapter, seeing it as a time of opportunity, rather than a time of crisis. Because, you know, how we [00:28:15] look at things through our lens can dictate everything. I think that was a big one.
Confronting some of the shifts, and really not running from them. So, confronting career dead ends. [00:28:30] You know, like I did confronting an unsatisfactory marriage instead of just this is how it is and I'm this far in life. So, c'est la vie. Write it out. Write it out. [00:28:45] Exactly. That
Aransas: sounds so sad. It is sad. It is sad.
But I get why somebody would come to that conclusion.
Shayna: Because it's easier to stay in than go. And so the women that made. It's not well, you [00:29:00] think it is because the fear of change is so the fear of change and how am I going to do this and what's going to happen, what's the unknown on the other side and maybe the other side is this is better than what could happen on the other side, but I think the women who actually looked at their [00:29:15] stuff honestly.
And then made the changes were so much happier and they also realized how much stronger they were. So there was a woman who I interviewed that had the perfect marriage on the outside and it wasn't the perfect marriage and he was not a nice person [00:29:30] and she got a lot of flat from even her mother being, but he's so this and that and, and she had to risk it all.
Even loss of mother approval to leave him. The mother eventually came around and man, she is flying right now. [00:29:45] So that was a big thing to do. A really big thing to do and she did it. And so, yeah, things like that I think are what really makes women see the door opening not the door closing. I think women that also We're [00:30:00] not caught up on the physical changes.
There's some women that are so lamenting what they see in the mirror and buying into the cultural narrative that youthful beauty is the only form of beauty and being upset that they [00:30:15] weigh, you know, 10 pounds more, that they are a size or two up. You know, I think the women that just fought against that to exhaustion were far less happier than the ones who are like.
This is me. You know, I liked how it looked the other [00:30:30] way, but this is me at 50 at 60 and I'm going to be okay with that. And if I want to go gray, I'm going to go gray, no matter what society thinks about it or anyone else thinks about it. I'm going to do it for me. In some of the flack, there's a woman.
There's a woman [00:30:45] who wanted to go gray, and she was very happy growing out her gray, but she was getting resistance from her family who was not happy with her being gray. And that made her challenge so much different, difficult. So I think it's also having [00:31:00] supportive people in your world that support your choices.
Aransas: Yeah. And doing it anyway, even if
Shayna: And doing it anyway, yeah.
Aransas: Yeah. Yeah. I think the physical piece is interesting, right? Because you use the word decline and, and certainly certain [00:31:15] strengths decline. I think my marathon PRs are, are behind me now, right? But I will have new personal best in different ways as a runner or at my ultra marathon [00:31:30] PR is still ahead of me because I've never done one.
Looking for new strengths and possibilities in there, maybe? Yeah,
Shayna: when I had to stop running, I had to grieve that. I've been running since I was 12, and it was so much a part of my identity. And it was how I started [00:31:45] every birthday, how I explored new cities on vacation. I really saw myself as being one of those 80 year olds shuffling across the, you know, the 10k line, you know, with my wrinkles.
And that got. Shattered and it took me a while [00:32:00] to grieve and not look at runners with envy and then just honor what my body can do. I can still hike. I hike with my walking sticks. I'm thrilled that I can hike. So rather than focus on the runner of what I can't [00:32:15] do, I'm enjoying hiking that I can do. So it's a focusing on what you can do, not what you can't do.
Aransas: Yeah. And the joy that that's bringing you. And the riches that like we only have so much time. Two and a day. And [00:32:30] so, yeah, you wouldn't necessarily have time or energy to hike if you were doing the thing you've already done a whole lot of, which is running.
Shayna: Yeah. It's one or the other for sure. Yeah. It forces you to find new possibilities.
I mean, it kind of, it's like one door closes, another [00:32:45] one opens.
Aransas: And I think where we feel stuck though is when we don't look for the other. windows, right? We just stand there. Yeah, we stand there pouting. I'm picturing my dog when he wants to go out and he just like stands [00:33:00] there and stares at this closed door like he's gonna magically open it with his eyes.
Exactly. I'm thinking of it like staring
Shayna: out the window, you know, feeling sorry for myself as I watch runners go by or, you know, going out the back door [00:33:15] to the trail and taking a hike. Yes. Much better response.
Aransas: Yes. So we have choice. And better fit for your body right now, maybe better fit for your mind right now, maybe better fit for your energy right now, [00:33:30] for your community connections.
All of the above. And that. That's that idea of like, what, what is the highest, best good for now? Absolutely. Yeah. I'm going to think of you so many times over the next 12 months, I feel like, and [00:33:45] then beyond. And I think we all need models. You know, when I talk about my grandma, I get this wonderful opportunity every time to see people's faces kind of light up with potential.
Like. Yeah. Oh, I don't have to sit in [00:34:00] my rocker.
Shayna: I love that you have that role model. And not everyone can do that, but they can make choice to live in other ways. Yes. They don't have to just, it just melts away in the rocking chair. I'm going to think of you every time I say, what is this moment [00:34:15] perfect for?
Is that the saying? What is this moment perfect for? That's it. That's it. Yeah. That's becoming the mantra for me. So thank you.
Aransas: Thank you. We will be with one another. Oh my gosh, thank you. I'm so excited about your book. Let us know when you're [00:34:30] coming to New York so that we can bring a crew to support you and cheer you on.
Shayna: What a birth. Yes, it was a good year.
Aransas: Yes.
Shayna: I had to get it out before 60. That was my goal. This sucker's, it took a, it was one of those goals that I wanted this out [00:34:45] before my 60th birthday and I got there.
Aransas: Here's to setting goals for our 60th birthday. Yes. You know. Yeah. Like I do think that you talk about the too late messaging.
I think that's part of it. It's like, you should be happy with what you have. [00:35:00] Yeah. Author for the first time at 59. Joy. Woohoo. Congratulations. Woohoo. Thank you. On tour at almost 60. Yeah,
Shayna: it's hitting the road.
Aransas: You and Mick Jagger. [00:35:15] Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes, please share them with the Uplifters in your life and then join us in conversation over at the uplifterspodcast.[00:35:30]
com. Head over to Spotify, Apple podcast or. Wherever you get your podcast and like, follow and rate our show, it'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never [00:35:45] miss one of these beautiful stories.
Music: Big love painted water, sunshine with rosemary. I'm dwelling, perplexing. You find it.[00:36:00]
Be your own best lover. Relish in a new prime. Plant a tree in springtime. Dance with idle hindsight. Bring the sun to twilight. [00:36:15] Lift you up. Woah oh oh oh oh oh oh Lift you up. Woah oh oh oh oh oh oh Lift you up. Woah oh oh oh oh oh oh [00:36:30] Lift you up. Lift you up.
Lift you[00:36:45]
lift.
Beautiful. I cried. It's that little [00:37:00] thing you did with your voice. Right, in the pre chorus, right? I was like Mommy, stop crying, you're disturbing the peace.