TUP EP 095
Aransas: [00:00:00] My name is Sabrina LeBlanc, and in the words of this week's podcast, an uplifter is someone who fills the bucket.[00:00:15]
Nomination: Katie Horwich is a force of nature and a deeply inspiring friend. She is the ultimate self talk expert and has spent her career in life helping women shift their negative self talk in very real and actionable ways. She does this in every [00:00:30] conversation I've ever had with her. And spending time with Katie will lift you up and change your mindset, and I recommend her as both an uplifter and a joyful presence in the world.
Aransas: Hey, this is Aransas, the host of the Uplifters Podcast, and I am so, so, [00:00:45] so excited about today's episode. Today I'm talking to Katie Horwich. Katie is a great friend of one of my dearest friends, Kara Catula, who you met in episode 36 of this [00:01:00] podcast. Katie is a nationally recognized author, speaker, mindset coach, and self talk activist.
She's the founder of a platform called WANT, Women Against Negative Self Talk, and what they do there is [00:01:15] they connect over mindset and she offers up tips and tools and motivation and inspiration to help women move fearlessly in their lives by shifting their self talk patterns. Really, every single one of us.
No [00:01:30] matter how confident we are, no matter how self assured we are, we all have doubts and fears and we all have limiting beliefs that can show up as negative self talk that gets in the way [00:01:45] of us letting our gifts out into the world. What you'll hear from Katie today is how she learned to really understand herself and to show up in the world as her whole, beautiful, complex [00:02:00] self, no matter where she is.
I'm really, really, really excited for you to hear Katie's story and to hear not only how she does this in her own life, but also how she helps thousands of other women do this in their lives.
Katie: [00:02:15] Hi. I'm really, really, really glad we're here. I have been looking forward to this since you reached out to me. So big fan, big fan.
Aransas: I think there's something about meeting the people you admire, admire, did that make any [00:02:30] sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Kara Katrusla, who's been on the show and is also one of my nearest and dearest friends and somebody I just wildly, deeply adore, wildly, deeply adores you. And so it's super [00:02:45] extra special to meet you and talk to you because I feel like we are already related.
Katie: Totally, and I love what you brought up about meeting the people who the people that you love and admire, admire because I don't know, [00:03:00] we're all such a mishmash mashup of the people who have inspired us throughout our lives. I strive to surround myself with people who have brave curiosity and [00:03:15] it's so important, especially if the old adage of you are the people who you surround yourself with is true.
I think it's so important to be really, really intentional about the people in your different [00:03:30] spheres and that you're really, really paying close attention to and that you have a like a mutual emotional investment in.
Aransas: Yeah. It's funny that you bring that up. I have two teenage daughters and being a teenager, especially a teenage [00:03:45] girl is hard, especially socially.
Amy Cuddy talks about personal and positional power. And so I think like as teenagers, so many. People are trying to really nail that [00:04:00] positional power. And I'm attracted to people who may give me positional power, who I feel like exude positional power and coolness. And you say something in your work that I say in my work a lot, which is, I'm not [00:04:15] so interested in cool.
In fact, I would way rather be around warm. And. I think warmth is actually a sign of personal power and I think as we grow older, as we grow more comfortable with [00:04:30] ourselves, the more we feel safe enough to attract and connect with people who have true personal power instead of just positional power.
Katie: Totally. And that warmth. I mean, it's not an [00:04:45] original thought that I have. Many people have talked about the difference between, you know, cool people and warm people. I think that it's very easy to get sucked in by the allure of being cool. [00:05:00] But when I first came across that sort of phrase of, like, I don't want to be a cool person, I want to be a warm person, and you think about the actual temperature, and what happens to your body when you get cooler and cooler and when you get warmer and warmer, if you think about, like, the [00:05:15] contracting and the expanding, that's something that It really stuck with me when I first heard it, and it made me feel so, so much more settled in who I am and, and my personality [00:05:30] type because I am someone who throughout my life I've been a, a very enthusiastic person.
That is just my nature. Like, I, And like enthusiasm and it has our faces in the dictionary. That was something [00:05:45] that as I was growing up, especially when I was, you know, like if we're talking about teenagers and teenage girls, when I was a tween, when I was a teen, really until I was sort of embraced by the theater kids and the theater community [00:06:00] in my high school, those like middle school years, really, I felt so self conscious.
about my enthusiasm and my enthusiastic tendencies. And I think that a lot of people, [00:06:15] and particularly girls, can really shut themselves down at that age. For me, I am someone who has also had such a heightened self awareness her entire life. That I could feel when I was shutting [00:06:30] parts of myself away and shutting down different personality traits and pretending.
And there's almost like this, almost like cognitive dissonance that happened with me where I felt myself. Lying to myself through my actions [00:06:45] and through my presentation in the world and that felt extremely uncomfortable and I felt as far from myself as, as possible. And when I look back on the times in my life that I have, I have personally [00:07:00] felt were the, the hardest for me and for me personally.
Professionally, that's a whole other story, but personally for me, it's those times where I have gotten so sucked into that game of pretend, and I've [00:07:15] known what I'm doing, and it has been so in conflict with who I actually am that I could feel that I was not living in integrity, and that to me, like, whether it's a romantic partnership, or a [00:07:30] friendship, or whatever it is, integrity is number one to me.
It's number one. Are your intentions and your actions aligned? And are you the same person on the inside that you say you are on the outside? Like are you not a Venn diagram or [00:07:45] two completely separate circles, but are you one full circle? And I could feel when I was fragmented and that led to a lot of personal struggle with Eating disorders, body related disorders, mental [00:08:00] health, relationships, all of these different things that I can trace back to me, me going so far from myself while also in some way standing strong in myself and being like, this is not who you are.
And [00:08:15] that's a really, really tricky dance to navigate.
Aransas: How did you find your way back to yourself in those times?
Katie: Community played a huge, huge part in it. If I think back on two of the main times in my young [00:08:30] adult life that I felt disconnected from myself. And was really going down more of like a deep dark path kind of story.
I won't say that community fixed everything or saved [00:08:45] everything, but I can pinpoint the relationships that I had that started to shift in those times and the way that they shifted to helping me feel safe being myself. I went to college for theater. And was [00:09:00] like the least college y college kid that you could ever envision.
I now know this as an adult because I got a later in life diagnosis, but I also am someone who has OCD and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. [00:09:15] I pretty High functioning, where it's like living my life, getting out of the house throughout my entire life, but I can also track and trace the OCD back to certain points in my [00:09:30] life where I felt like I didn't have that place to be myself and the OCD would start to act up.
And OCD is not just about the obsessions, but it's about the compulsions. I describe it as, it's called a [00:09:45] doubting disorder, but I think that What is more accurate for me is it is a disorder of extreme Catastrophization. So the second time I would say that I felt so so straying far from myself [00:10:00] Was when I was in college and I didn't want to like go and do the college y things I felt completely out of control out of my element and that's when I started to develop a whole host of eating disorders body related disorders, and [00:10:15] I Now know that those can be a manifestation of OCD.
Those can be like the compulsion that you are performing in order to prevent or [00:10:30] neutralize the obsession of, I am so different, everybody's going to hate me, I need to do this or else everything is going to fall apart. And what really got me out of that was a combination of my hyper self awareness [00:10:45] and community because I started to get into professional productions, started to audition for professional productions and joined the union and stuff right before my senior year of college.
And I was like, There is [00:11:00] no way, first of all, there's no way that my parents are going to let me skip out on my senior year of college. That is not going to happen. I need to graduate. However, there is no way that I am going to prevent myself from living this big, beautiful life that I [00:11:15] see and I've started to get a taste of for me out there.
That's not going to be able to happen if I am. In the environment that I am in right now because that is so triggering to me [00:11:30] that I am squashing who I am and If i'm not squashing who I am i'm being two separate people Out there in what I consider my real world and then in the environment that i'm in and so I [00:11:45] Went to school, uh about three hours away from where where I lived and so I moved back to la Okay And I commuted to finish my final year.
And in that year, I became friends with people who saw me as me and embraced me [00:12:00] as me. Embraced my quirks, embraced my, my nuances and allowed me to feel like the me I always knew I was meant to be.
Aransas: What an act of bravery to advocate for yourself [00:12:15] in that way and making the choice that allowed you to keep moving forward.
Katie: Yeah, and my work for the last 20 years has centered around helping people shift their negative self talk in a real lasting way. And I [00:12:30] started to do that work in that same period of time when I was in that sort of two steps forward, one step backward, amorphous world that we call recovery. Because your podcast is the uplifters.
I think that [00:12:45] there's two different sort of ways that you can think of being an uplifter and being with uplifters. One is is with your actual community and one is being your own uplifter. And I think the magic of that particular time in [00:13:00] my life in my early twenties was that I somehow at the same time Became my own uplifter as I was finding my true communal uplifters.
And I'm [00:13:15] so grateful that I paid attention. I'm so grateful that I never worked so hard to squash that self awareness and hyper awareness and hypersensitivity that I wasn't then able to access it when it ended [00:13:30] up being, like, not to be cheesy about it, but being my lifeline.
Aransas: Ultimately, it is a choice between, if not life and death, always a big life and a teeny tiny life.
Yes. Totally. So let's talk about self talk [00:13:45] because OCD is a self talk disorder.
Katie: Yes.
Aransas: I mean, it's the stories, right, that the person is telling themself. Yes. That creates those loops.
Katie: Yes, that's a great [00:14:00] distinction. So when people talk about self talk, they usually talk about it in terms of positive self talk versus negative self talk.
Self talk, though, is really more. Along the lines of what you just described and not in the [00:14:15] OCD sort of like way of it, but self talk isn't inherently good or bad. It's information and it's the story that you tell yourself about yourself 24 seven as you walk through the world. So I [00:14:30] got my OCD diagnosis about three and a half years ago now.
So it was pretty like they call it a late in life diagnosis. I got it in my mid thirties. And when I got it, I am not someone who is, [00:14:45] who holds any sort of shame or self consciousness about talking about mental health or mental illnesses. However, the reason why I didn't talk about it for, A while was [00:15:00] a first of all, it felt too intimate to me.
I have a personal rule and you can probably relate to this as a writer. I have rules for myself when it comes to what I share when it's personal, like personal stuff. I share what's [00:15:15] personal. I don't share what's intimate. OCD still fell into the intimate bucket with me because I was still figuring out my relationship to it and how I was going to move forward with this as, you know, a piece of who I [00:15:30] was, a part of me.
And then if anybody is listening who, who has an OCD diagnosis, they'll be like, oh my gosh, that's, that is so typical. I was worried that All of my work up until that point, I was like, [00:15:45] Oh my God, have I just been talking about OCD and not self talk for almost 20 years now? Like basically, has my professional life been a lie?
Spoiler alert, it was not. And I think that part of that is because of. [00:16:00] OCD also latches onto your values. And my biggest values is being in integrity with myself. And so I am very, very passionate about staying in my lane of expertise. [00:16:15] I don't use generalizations often, but I believe that everybody should stay in their lane of expertise, especially when it has to do with your physical, mental, or emotional health.
And so, um, For me, as I was doing my research, as [00:16:30] I was working with people, as I was sort of building my platform, WANT, which stands for Women Against Negative Talk, over the course of those years, I would talk about mental illnesses in a separate bucket as self talk. So the way that I describe the [00:16:45] relationship between self talk and OCD is very similar to how people will describe being depressed versus having depression or feeling [00:17:00] anxious versus having clinical anxiety because there are certain qualifiers that cross the line.
from one into another. So for OCD, why I describe it as extreme [00:17:15] catastrophization, OCD is an anxiety disorder. And so what happens is that the response that you have, even if you logically know, you logically know that something doesn't matter, doing air quotes, as much As [00:17:30] you think it does, your body doesn't know the difference.
And so your body will say, I will give what might seem a silly example to people right now. I live in New York City, and in New York City, there are just as [00:17:45] many doggie daycares as there are human daycares. baby daycares. I have a dog. And there are times, especially when I was, when I was in a period of writing the book or doing intense promotion, [00:18:00] there are periods of time where I needed to take her to Doggy daycare for the day so that she could get walked, she could get socialization, and I could do the work that I needed to do.
It's an incredible privilege that we have access [00:18:15] to. My OCD, part of my brain, would freak out about whether I should take her to daycare or not. And the if then was if I take her [00:18:30] to daycare, it is going to cost us more money that maybe we will or won't have in the future. And then we are going to go broke and then we won't be able to afford certain things.
Or if I take her to daycare, [00:18:45] I'm going to, what if I forget to pick her up? But if I leave her at home, what if I forget? Forget to take her out. What if I can't take her out? What if I need to leave the house and something happens and the house burns down? [00:19:00] That is the extreme that it would go to for this tiny decision of, do I take her to daycare or not?
And, um, That was the story, but the self talk for me that was coming up [00:19:15] around that wasn't necessarily the ins and outs of the if, if this happens, then this will happen. It was the feelings that I felt. about myself as I was going through the process. And this is [00:19:30] something that a lot of people, whether they have OCD or a diagnosed mental illness or not, struggle with of they feel like I am X, Y, Z years old.
I should be over this by now. Or why can't I just [00:19:45] figure this out? Why can't I do this? And that's the type of self talk that I work with people
Aransas: around. I think what you're saying, part of the bravery is knowing what you're really most helpful with. [00:20:00] Yeah. And committing your energy to doing that.
Katie: Totally.
And I can imagine that people who identify as uplifters or helpers or support systems, that's something that, including myself in the mix, that's something that people [00:20:15] who have that chip in their brain can over index on. and they can also have an inflated sense of responsibility over. There's research that exists around how people who over index on helping others [00:20:30] can over time become desensitized and lose that sense of empathy because they haven't learned to set the boundaries and they haven't been toggling back and forth between, you [00:20:45] know, asking that question of how can I help others and make sure that I don't abandon myself in the process?
How can I stay true to me and make sure that I don't shut off the world? We want to make sure that we stay receptive so that we can be the helpers that we want to be so [00:21:00] we can make the impact that we know we can make. Oprah says that she works to be full of herself because it's only when she's full of herself that she is overflowing and she can give to others.
That's a dance you learn throughout your life. [00:21:15]
Aransas: It is. It's a continuous practice and I think most of us learn it. Through practically, I mean, we, yes, we can hear the adage and we can say, yeah, I get it. Logically, it makes sense to take care of myself, but it [00:21:30] isn't until we hear practically and tactically how people do it that we start to see ourselves both in the care and lack thereof.
So yes, for you, what does it look like? in this life of big service and [00:21:45] impact to pour back into yourself?
Katie: Well, I have a few non negotiables for myself that I know if they are not a part of my life. It's bad news bears. All of the servers are down. [00:22:00] Everything is on the fritz. It's not good for anybody. I am diligent about my sleep and I also give myself grace because I know I, and everybody is different, but I know my specific like amount of hours that I [00:22:15] need, which also by the way, changes when I am on my cycle because my body is doing completely different things.
Yeah. But I know how many hours I need at different points in the month. And if I don't get that, I give myself [00:22:30] the grace of, Oh, like that bucket isn't as full as it usually like needs to be in order for me to be like right on top of my game. And so that means I might need to fill my cup in [00:22:45] other ways to sort of compensate for that other things.
I need silent time throughout the day. I don't care if it's 10 minutes or, you know, it's multiple hours. It would be incredible if it's multiple hours, but life keeps lifing and, [00:23:00] and just that does not happen sometimes, but I need what I call no talky time and I need to not people because I love people, but I am a very textbook introvert when it comes to my [00:23:15] battery life.
And there is a hard off button. When I have been just going, going, going with people. And so I will literally give myself a time out. And that's something that is huge for me. I also, and [00:23:30] something that because I am that person who, who wants to help, especially when it comes to my personal relationships, my interpersonal relationships, I am a big fan of asking people explicitly what [00:23:45] they need from me.
In the times in which they need help, because then a, I'm able to help and support them in the way that they need to be supported versus the way that I think they need to be supported. And I protect [00:24:00] myself from doing the mental gymnastics of trying to read between the lines and do all of the work. I mean, this is also something as someone who is a professional and certified.
Mindset coach. I am [00:24:15] on the clock for people and I will do that work with them. And I know them saying, I'm coming to you for coaching. That's basically them telling me what they need from me with the people in my life though, that I love, whether it's my husband or my [00:24:30] best friend or my mom. I've learned that my mom is an extreme.
external processor and so sometimes she just like needs to talk and she just needs to process and have me listen and sort of respond [00:24:45] to her. That not only serves the other person but it helps protect my own energy and use my energy wisely where it is of service.
Aransas: Yeah, one of the things I say to Kara a lot is ambiguity [00:25:00] is exhausting.
And so I think really that clarity is an energy preservation system. And one of our hacks for this that we share back and forth to each other when we can't figure out how to ask that question. [00:25:15] of what do you need from me because sometimes that's a hard question to ask.
Katie: Totally. Yeah. Even if you've asked it in the
Aransas: past with people.
Especially if you grew up masking and so we literally put it into chat GPT and we're like, how do I ask this?
Katie: [00:25:30] I love that. I think that that is an excellent use of GPT.
Aransas: As do I. It makes me much bolder and more direct when I need to be. When I need to take my own mush and voice, sometimes I need to pour my mush and voice [00:25:45] in there and that's what brings things to life.
But it's really great at taking all my human mess and limiting beliefs out of the equation and just saying. Help me ask this in the most direct way possible.
Katie: [00:26:00] Thanks. Yes. Yes. Make me a machine. I've written an email before where I am maybe saying something that is, and emails, by the way, pre OCD treatment, the hardest.
Emails were the hardest. [00:26:15] The time that I sought out treatment when I was like, okay, I know I'm high functioning, but I've not come this far to get this far, was when I was sending out emails to get the blurbs for my book and it took so much energy out of me. I was so [00:26:30] mentally exhausted and I would like end the day and I was like, I tried to write one email today and I couldn't write that email and I was like, it's time for treatment.
But for maybe someone who's not on that extreme, if you are writing an [00:26:45] email and you're like, I know what I want to ask, but I feel like I'm dancing around it. If you put it into chat GPT, it'll narrow it down. And whether you use that answer or not, you get exposure to this is what [00:27:00] a perfectly acceptable direct ask would look like.
And sometimes you don't even know what that sort of directness. would look, sound, feel like.
Aransas: Totally. And you often discover that you're dancing around it [00:27:15] so much that even ChatGPT doesn't know what you're saying. And that's really good info too.
Katie: Totally. If you keep writing in qualifiers for ChatGPT, make this more fun.
Will you soften the language? Will you make this more [00:27:30] professional but not too professional? Then you can have that self awareness and reflect of like, Hmm, wait a second. Hold on. Hold on a second.
Aransas: What am I actually trying to say?
Katie: Exactly. And what's the information underneath [00:27:45] why you think it needs to be so specifically What you think it is, and that's what I like to talk about.
What's
Aransas: the fear under that? Yeah.
Katie: Like when I talk about self talk, it's really like if we're using that example, whether it's a phone call or [00:28:00] an email or whatever, asking yourself non rhetorically, like, what am I afraid of?
Music: And
Katie: then ask it, following that up with, with a whole host of why's, like, okay, what is the why behind that?
Why? What's the why behind that? Why? What's the why behind [00:28:15] that? Why? What you'll usually find with that information is that your brain is not your inner critic. Your brain is actually your inner ally that is trying to help you in a way that you don't process [00:28:30] help.
Aransas: Yes.
Katie: Like that's your brain assuming how you need to be helped.
And you being like, I just need someone to listen to me right now, and you're giving me the seven step solution. And so if we can press pause on calling that [00:28:45] part of our brain, our inner critic or inner bully, and like really, really double click and double click until we get to what's actually going on, what you'll usually discover.
is that you have this inner ally that just needs to be taught [00:29:00] how to actually help you.
Aransas: Yes. And I love that reframe that the inner critic or the inner bully is actually the inner ally, the inner cheerleader, the inner support. Safety guard. Yeah. Yeah. There's a positive intention behind [00:29:15] every behavior and it is trying to help us, just not in the most helpful, well rounded way, right?
Exactly. And when we're under stress, our perspective gets so tiny and narrow. Mm hmm. [00:29:30] And we're like, this is the problem to solve. And we ignore the 4, 000 other sort of more strategic things going on that are influencing or contributing to that little problem. The problem is a result of, [00:29:45] and then when we step back a little bit, without that constricting layer of stress, we can say, Oh, Look at
Katie: that.
Yeah. This is the real thing. It's hard. It's really hard to let go of that stress. It's [00:30:00] really hard. All of the mindset work is great, but really sometimes it really is about those bare bones building blocks of like your nervous system getting enough sleep, making sure that you're hydrated, making sure that you have [00:30:15] eaten and that you're nourishing your body.
It's these little things, and there's like so much research on this, and we don't have to get into it, like people can, people can ask chat to UBT about it. But there's so much research on the way that these, like, [00:30:30] building blocks affect the way that we process stress. or don't process it. And sometimes it really is about, okay, how can I set myself up for as much success as possible, knowing that I [00:30:45] am human, not a robot, and I will experience stress and stressful experiences in my life.
Because that's That's going to happen. And do we want to be completely stress free all of the time? I don't, because that [00:31:00] means that I'm not accessing a part of my, my humanity, and I'm not problem solving, and I'm not innovating, and I'm not actually moving forward through the really tough stuff. So it's of course, there's going to be stressful things and there is going to be [00:31:15] stress.
But how can you set yourself up through whether it's your physical daily practices, your mindset work that you are doing, the people that you surround yourself with, the people that you go to when life is lifing and you're in [00:31:30] those tough spots. How can you set your stressful self up for success?
Aransas: As I think about everything you've said, to me the strongest theme throughout is the practice of self awareness.
Music: Mm hmm.
Aransas: It is listening to [00:31:45] ourselves, our needs, our patterned responses. Yes. And letting those be our teachers and our guides to grace. But also to the boundaries as [00:32:00] healthy, helpful allies to ourselves instead of those constricting allies.
Katie: Self awareness times action.
Aransas: Because
Katie: all of the self awareness in the world is wonderful, however, it is [00:32:15] nothing if we don't do anything about it and we don't say, okay, I've got all of this awareness, what's going on?
So what are you going to do about it? Because it is really easy to convince ourselves that we are [00:32:30] doing something to live the lives that we want to live, to make the changes we want to make. All we're doing is actually just thinking about it.
Aransas: Thinking about it.
Katie: Yeah. Because it feels active inside our brains.
And so it's really like, you've got to get honest with yourself [00:32:45] and be like, okay, information is a really important part of the puzzle. Now, what am I going to do with it?
Aransas: Right. And for some of us, that's really the only way to learn. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's through the doing. I could definitely [00:33:00] talk to you for two more hours.
Fame. There's so much I still want to ask you. What do you most want us to take from your story, your experience, because you believe it'll help us [00:33:15] keep rising higher?
Katie: Well, I think that the biggest thing, what I hope through this conversation and through all of the work that I do. I hope to help people feel empowered to bring their full self [00:33:30] to the stage of their own life and to use all of the goods that they have been given and move forward fearlessly and really be the people they know they are.
They are meant to be and that can be really, [00:33:45] really hard to do because fear, stress, unconscious bias, false leaders convincing us that X, Y, Z will give us power or control. It's really, really easy to hide [00:34:00] parts of yourself. and go after other things that you think will fill that void. But the reason why I'm so passionate about the work that I do when it comes to self awareness, times action, and, you know, shifting your self talk, is [00:34:15] that I do believe that when we make those shifts and we use that information to help propel ourselves forward, that's how the changes that we actually want to see in the world and the change that we actually want to be [00:34:30] in the world, happens.
That's how that comes to life. And so you might not know what you are passionate about or what you're good at. You might have so many things that you're passionate about and you're good at that people have told you in the past to like, you know, [00:34:45] Ross Geller, like, like tone it down, like niche down. And, you know, I want to tell people that you have all of what makes you you for a reason, and life is short, but it is also wide, [00:35:00] and you have that to use all of the parts of yourselves and bring, bring all of those parts to the table.
That is what I suspect will lead you to [00:35:15] saying as you look back, Oh yeah, that was a life well lived. very much. Which is what we all hope and wish for, right?
Aransas: Yeah, it is. I did research at one point on the very question, what does it mean to live [00:35:30] up? And I think I got close to 5, 000 responses and in synthesis saw that it really boiled down to three things.
Music: Mm hmm.
Aransas: Which was to be well. physically and mentally to do good and have a [00:35:45] positive impact and to connect deeply. It was our relationships and you've hit on all three of those today, which I think is really telling.
Katie: Well, this has been a wonderful conversation. I've loved hanging out with you.
Aransas: I've loved hanging out with you too, and I can't wait for more, all [00:36:00] running or otherwise.
Thank you for listening to The Uplifters Podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes, please share them with The Uplifters in your life and then join us in [00:36:15] conversation over at TheUpliftersPodcast. com. Head over to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Google Play. Wherever you get your podcast and like, follow and rate our show, it'll really help us connect with more uplifters [00:36:30] and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories.
Mm,
Music: big love painted water, sunshine with rosemary, and I'm dwelling. [00:36:45] No, You'll find it vexing Toss a star and hover Be your own Bess Luffer Relish in a new prime Plant a tree in spring time Dance with that old hindsight Bring the sun to [00:37:00] twilight Lift you up, whoa, Lift you up, whoa, Lift you up, whoa, [00:37:15] Lift you up.
Lift you up, whoa, lift you up, whoa, lift you [00:37:30] up, whoa, lift you up, do do do do, do do do do do. Beautiful. I [00:37:45] cried. Right? In the pre chorus, right? I was like Mommy, stop crying. Mommy,
Nomination: stop crying. You're disturbing the peace.